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#1: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-19 22:22:51 by nospam

I just now finished reading HP&tHBP. I have a continuity question.

(spoiler space)
40
39
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31
30
29
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01

Sorry if this has been discussed here before...

Over Christmas break, Harry checks some sort of date in the textbook
and determines it was used at Hoqwarts fifty years ago, and concludes
that neither his father nor any of his father's friends could have
been "The Half Blood Prince" for this reason. I immediately lept to
the conclusion that it had been Tom Riddle's book. I assume that this
is what the author intended the reader to do, and the fact that Harry
(who knew Voldemort was a half-blood) doesn't think of this possibility
sort of diminished the book for me. I hate plots that depend on people
who are portrayed as intelligent being stupid.

At the end of the book, Harry and Hermione are sure that the writing
is Snape's. Snape was of course a contemporary of Harry's father.
Harry does not mention the date conflict.

Is it supposed to be as simple as Snape re-using his mother's book?

Also, is this the first mention we have of Snape's father being a
muggle? I can't recall the details of the domestic abuse memory
Harry sees in OotP.

--
Please reply to: | "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is
pciszek at panix dot com | indistinguishable from malice."
Autoreply is disabled |

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#2: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-20 00:27:24 by DAC

&quot;Paul Ciszek&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:nospam&#64;nospam.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;nospam.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:e9m4ar$nfa$<a href="mailto:1&#64;reader2.panix.com..." target="_blank">1&#64;reader2.panix.com...</a>
&gt;I just now finished reading HP&amp;tHBP. I have a continuity question.
&gt;
&gt; (spoiler space)
&gt; 40
&gt; 39
&gt; 38
&gt; 37
&gt; 36
&gt; 35
&gt; 34
&gt; 33
&gt; 32
&gt; 31
&gt; 30
&gt; 29
&gt; 28
&gt; 27
&gt; 26
&gt; 25
&gt; 24
&gt; 23
&gt; 22
&gt; 21
&gt; 20
&gt; 19
&gt; 18
&gt; 17
&gt; 16
&gt; 15
&gt; 14
&gt; 13
&gt; 12
&gt; 11
&gt; 10
&gt; 09
&gt; 08
&gt; 07
&gt; 06
&gt; 05
&gt; 04
&gt; 03
&gt; 02
&gt; 01
&gt;
&gt; Sorry if this has been discussed here before...
&gt;
&gt; Over Christmas break, Harry checks some sort of date in the textbook
&gt; and determines it was used at Hoqwarts fifty years ago, and concludes
&gt; that neither his father nor any of his father's friends could have
&gt; been &quot;The Half Blood Prince&quot; for this reason. I immediately lept to
&gt; the conclusion that it had been Tom Riddle's book. I assume that this
&gt; is what the author intended the reader to do, and the fact that Harry
&gt; (who knew Voldemort was a half-blood) doesn't think of this possibility
&gt; sort of diminished the book for me. I hate plots that depend on people
&gt; who are portrayed as intelligent being stupid.

Yep... and all that after harry 'forgot' about the mirror sirius gave to
him...
JKR has said the mirror won't play any part ins the story, so why was it
even in there? As an example of how sometimes things just go wrong?

I also think heaps of people are going to be really let down by the last
book. JKR writes books so that each one has some sort of story that sort of
closes at the end. I fear that instead of the last book actually tieing up
many many loose ends, it will go off on its own little story and conclude
having only tied up some of the larger parts. We defaintly won't get a look
in to the future of the kids etc.

Report this message

#3: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-20 00:54:08 by Fish Eye no Miko

Paul Ciszek wrote:

&gt; I just now finished reading HP&amp;tHBP. I have a continuity question.
&gt;
&gt; (spoiler space)
&gt; 40
&gt; 39
&gt; 38
&gt; 37
&gt; 36
&gt; 35
&gt; 34
&gt; 33
&gt; 32
&gt; 31
&gt; 30
&gt; 29
&gt; 28
&gt; 27
&gt; 26
&gt; 25
&gt; 24
&gt; 23
&gt; 22
&gt; 21
&gt; 20
&gt; 19
&gt; 18
&gt; 17
&gt; 16
&gt; 15
&gt; 14
&gt; 13
&gt; 12
&gt; 11
&gt; 10
&gt; 09
&gt; 08
&gt; 07
&gt; 06
&gt; 05
&gt; 04
&gt; 03
&gt; 02
&gt; 01
&gt;
&gt; Sorry if this has been discussed here before...
&gt;
&gt; Over Christmas break, Harry checks some sort of date in the
&gt; textbook and determines it was used at Hoqwarts fifty years
&gt; ago, and concludes that neither his father nor any of his father's
&gt; friends could have been &quot;The Half Blood Prince&quot; for this reason.
&gt; I immediately lept to the conclusion that it had been Tom Riddle's
&gt; book. I assume that this is what the author intended the reader
&gt; to do, and the fact that Harry (who knew Voldemort was a
&gt; half-blood) doesn't think of this possibility sort of diminished the
&gt; book for me.

True.. Though, Jo made it clear before the book was out that neither Harry
nor Voldie were the HBP. But the characters in the books don't know
that... ^_^

&gt; I hate plots that depend on people who are portrayed as intelligent
&gt; being stupid.

This arguably happens in a few of the books...

&gt; At the end of the book, Harry and Hermione are sure that the writing
&gt; is Snape's. Snape was of course a contemporary of Harry's father.
&gt; Harry does not mention the date conflict.

Yeah...

&gt; Is it supposed to be as simple as Snape re-using his mother's book?

I think so, yeah.

&gt; Also, is this the first mention we have of Snape's father being a
&gt; muggle?

Yep.

&gt; I can't recall the details of the domestic abuse memory Harry sees
&gt; in OotP.

We just see two adult figures: &quot;...a hook-nosed man shouting at a cowering
woman while a small, dark-haired boy cried in the corner...&quot; -OtP, &quot;Seen
and Unforeseen&quot; (Chp. 26), pg. 592, Arthur A.Levine edition.
We presume the man is Tobias Snape (&quot;hook-nosed&quot; is a term used to describe
Severus, so we're supposed to &quot;see&quot; the resemblance), the woman is Eileen
Snape (nee Prince), and the boy would be Severus. But this is, until HBP,
the only time Severus' parents are seen or referred to in any way.

Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net
&quot;I'm the impish officer of death.&quot;
-Mike Nelson, _Mystery Science Theater 3000_.

Report this message

#4: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-20 00:59:15 by Kish

Paul Ciszek wrote:
&gt; I just now finished reading HP&amp;tHBP. I have a continuity question.
&gt;
&gt; (spoiler space)
&gt; 40
&gt; 39
&gt; 38
&gt; 37
&gt; 36
&gt; 35
&gt; 34
&gt; 33
&gt; 32
&gt; 31
&gt; 30
&gt; 29
&gt; 28
&gt; 27
&gt; 26
&gt; 25
&gt; 24
&gt; 23
&gt; 22
&gt; 21
&gt; 20
&gt; 19
&gt; 18
&gt; 17
&gt; 16
&gt; 15
&gt; 14
&gt; 13
&gt; 12
&gt; 11
&gt; 10
&gt; 09
&gt; 08
&gt; 07
&gt; 06
&gt; 05
&gt; 04
&gt; 03
&gt; 02
&gt; 01
&gt;
&gt; Sorry if this has been discussed here before...
&gt;
&gt; Over Christmas break, Harry checks some sort of date in the textbook
&gt; and determines it was used at Hoqwarts fifty years ago, and concludes
&gt; that neither his father nor any of his father's friends could have
&gt; been &quot;The Half Blood Prince&quot; for this reason. I immediately lept to
&gt; the conclusion that it had been Tom Riddle's book. I assume that this
&gt; is what the author intended the reader to do, and the fact that Harry
&gt; (who knew Voldemort was a half-blood) doesn't think of this possibility
&gt; sort of diminished the book for me. I hate plots that depend on people
&gt; who are portrayed as intelligent being stupid.

Harry can probably tell, remembering the diary from CoS, that it's not
Tom Riddle's handwriting.

&gt; Is it supposed to be as simple as Snape re-using his mother's book?

Rowling confirmed before the book ever came out that the Half-Blood
Prince is not Harry, nor Voldemort, nor is she using verbal trickery to
hide its being Tom Riddle. I'll be less surprised if it turns out Harry
is a Horcrux than I will be if the Half-Blood Prince is anyone but Snape.


&gt;
&gt; Also, is this the first mention we have of Snape's father being a
&gt; muggle?

Yes.

Report this message

#5: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-20 02:04:44 by Eric Bohlman

Kish &lt;<a href="mailto:Kish_K&#64;pacbell.net" target="_blank">Kish_K&#64;pacbell.net</a>&gt; wrote in news:7Pyvg.126868$H71.101982
@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:

&gt; Paul Ciszek wrote:
&gt;&gt; Over Christmas break, Harry checks some sort of date in the textbook
&gt;&gt; and determines it was used at Hoqwarts fifty years ago, and concludes
&gt;&gt; that neither his father nor any of his father's friends could have
&gt;&gt; been &quot;The Half Blood Prince&quot; for this reason. I immediately lept to
&gt;&gt; the conclusion that it had been Tom Riddle's book. I assume that this
&gt;&gt; is what the author intended the reader to do, and the fact that Harry
&gt;&gt; (who knew Voldemort was a half-blood) doesn't think of this possibility
&gt;&gt; sort of diminished the book for me. I hate plots that depend on people
&gt;&gt; who are portrayed as intelligent being stupid.
&gt;
&gt; Harry can probably tell, remembering the diary from CoS, that it's not
&gt; Tom Riddle's handwriting.

Also, if the publication date of the book were exactly fifty years ago
(1946, using the conventional dating scheme), it would have been published
a year *after* Tom left Hogwarts (1945). Harry's actually on firmer ground
here than he was with rejecting the possibility that the HBP was a
Marauder.

Report this message

#6: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-20 03:58:33 by gjw

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:22:51 +0000 (UTC), <a href="mailto:nospam&#64;nospam.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;nospam.com</a> (Paul
Ciszek) wrote:

&gt;I just now finished reading HP&amp;tHBP. I have a continuity question.
&gt;
&gt;(spoiler space)
&gt;40
&gt;39
&gt;38
&gt;37
&gt;36
&gt;35
&gt;34
&gt;33
&gt;32
&gt;31
&gt;30
&gt;29
&gt;28
&gt;27
&gt;26
&gt;25
&gt;24
&gt;23
&gt;22
&gt;21
&gt;20
&gt;19
&gt;18
&gt;17
&gt;16
&gt;15
&gt;14
&gt;13
&gt;12
&gt;11
&gt;10
&gt;09
&gt;08
&gt;07
&gt;06
&gt;05
&gt;04
&gt;03
&gt;02
&gt;01
&gt;

&gt;At the end of the book, Harry and Hermione are sure that the writing
&gt;is Snape's. Snape was of course a contemporary of Harry's father.
&gt;Harry does not mention the date conflict.
&gt;
&gt;Is it supposed to be as simple as Snape re-using his mother's book?

Yes. It's supposed to be that simple.


&gt;Also, is this the first mention we have of Snape's father being a
&gt;muggle? I can't recall the details of the domestic abuse memory
&gt;Harry sees in OotP.

I'm certain it was our first indication that his father was a Muggle.

Here's the text you wanted:

&quot;...a hook-nosed man was shouting at a cowering woman, while a small
dark-haired boy cried in a corner...&quot;


In fact, that memory of apparent domestic abuse seems to run counter
to the recently revealed reality about Snape's parents. Why would a
powerful witch cower in front of a mere Muggle? (My hunch is that the
abuse was strictly verbal and she simply chose to endure it rather
than divorce him.)

Report this message

#7: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-20 04:31:38 by wadkin2000

gjw wrote:
&gt; On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:22:51 +0000 (UTC), <a href="mailto:nospam&#64;nospam.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;nospam.com</a> (Paul
&gt; Ciszek) wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt;I just now finished reading HP&amp;tHBP. I have a continuity question.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;(spoiler space)
&gt; &gt;40
&gt; &gt;39
&gt; &gt;38
&gt; &gt;37
&gt; &gt;36
&gt; &gt;35
&gt; &gt;34
&gt; &gt;33
&gt; &gt;32
&gt; &gt;31
&gt; &gt;30
&gt; &gt;29
&gt; &gt;28
&gt; &gt;27
&gt; &gt;26
&gt; &gt;25
&gt; &gt;24
&gt; &gt;23
&gt; &gt;22
&gt; &gt;21
&gt; &gt;20
&gt; &gt;19
&gt; &gt;18
&gt; &gt;17
&gt; &gt;16
&gt; &gt;15
&gt; &gt;14
&gt; &gt;13
&gt; &gt;12
&gt; &gt;11
&gt; &gt;10
&gt; &gt;09
&gt; &gt;08
&gt; &gt;07
&gt; &gt;06
&gt; &gt;05
&gt; &gt;04
&gt; &gt;03
&gt; &gt;02
&gt; &gt;01
&gt; &gt;
&gt;
&gt; &gt;At the end of the book, Harry and Hermione are sure that the writing
&gt; &gt;is Snape's. Snape was of course a contemporary of Harry's father.
&gt; &gt;Harry does not mention the date conflict.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;Is it supposed to be as simple as Snape re-using his mother's book?
&gt;
&gt; Yes. It's supposed to be that simple.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; &gt;Also, is this the first mention we have of Snape's father being a
&gt; &gt;muggle? I can't recall the details of the domestic abuse memory
&gt; &gt;Harry sees in OotP.
&gt;
&gt; I'm certain it was our first indication that his father was a Muggle.
&gt;
&gt; Here's the text you wanted:
&gt;
&gt; &quot;...a hook-nosed man was shouting at a cowering woman, while a small
&gt; dark-haired boy cried in a corner...&quot;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; In fact, that memory of apparent domestic abuse seems to run counter
&gt; to the recently revealed reality about Snape's parents. Why would a
&gt; powerful witch cower in front of a mere Muggle? (My hunch is that the
&gt; abuse was strictly verbal and she simply chose to endure it rather
&gt; than divorce him.)


Well, IIRC, emotions do play a role in a wizard's/witch's control of
magic, i.e., Merope. It's conceivable that any abuse (physical or
mental) that Snape's mother suffered at the hands of her husband
affected her ability to perform magic.

Report this message

#8: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-20 06:09:15 by drusilla

<a href="mailto:wadkin2000&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">wadkin2000&#64;yahoo.com</a> escribió:
&gt; gjw wrote:
&gt;&gt; On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:22:51 +0000 (UTC), <a href="mailto:nospam&#64;nospam.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;nospam.com</a> (Paul
&gt;&gt; Ciszek) wrote:

&gt;&gt;&gt; Also, is this the first mention we have of Snape's father being a
&gt;&gt;&gt; muggle? I can't recall the details of the domestic abuse memory
&gt;&gt;&gt; Harry sees in OotP.
&gt;&gt; I'm certain it was our first indication that his father was a Muggle.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Here's the text you wanted:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &quot;...a hook-nosed man was shouting at a cowering woman, while a small
&gt;&gt; dark-haired boy cried in a corner...&quot;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; In fact, that memory of apparent domestic abuse seems to run counter
&gt;&gt; to the recently revealed reality about Snape's parents. Why would a
&gt;&gt; powerful witch cower in front of a mere Muggle? (My hunch is that the
&gt;&gt; abuse was strictly verbal and she simply chose to endure it rather
&gt;&gt; than divorce him.)
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Well, IIRC, emotions do play a role in a wizard's/witch's control of
&gt; magic, i.e., Merope. It's conceivable that any abuse (physical or
&gt; mental) that Snape's mother suffered at the hands of her husband
&gt; affected her ability to perform magic.
&gt;

Couldn't be Eillen's father? More unlikely for her to perform magic
against him if this is the case.

Report this message

#9: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-20 08:32:35 by Fish Eye no Miko

gjw wrote:

&gt; <a href="mailto:nospam&#64;nospam.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;nospam.com</a> (Paul Ciszek) wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I just now finished reading HP&amp;tHBP. I have a continuity question.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; (spoiler space)
&gt;&gt; 40
&gt;&gt; 39
&gt;&gt; 38
&gt;&gt; 37
&gt;&gt; 36
&gt;&gt; 35
&gt;&gt; 34
&gt;&gt; 33
&gt;&gt; 32
&gt;&gt; 31
&gt;&gt; 30
&gt;&gt; 29
&gt;&gt; 28
&gt;&gt; 27
&gt;&gt; 26
&gt;&gt; 25
&gt;&gt; 24
&gt;&gt; 23
&gt;&gt; 22
&gt;&gt; 21
&gt;&gt; 20
&gt;&gt; 19
&gt;&gt; 18
&gt;&gt; 17
&gt;&gt; 16
&gt;&gt; 15
&gt;&gt; 14
&gt;&gt; 13
&gt;&gt; 12
&gt;&gt; 11
&gt;&gt; 10
&gt;&gt; 09
&gt;&gt; 08
&gt;&gt; 07
&gt;&gt; 06
&gt;&gt; 05
&gt;&gt; 04
&gt;&gt; 03
&gt;&gt; 02
&gt;&gt; 01
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; At the end of the book, Harry and Hermione are sure that the
&gt;&gt; writing is Snape's. Snape was of course a contemporary of
&gt;&gt; Harry's father. Harry does not mention the date conflict.
&gt;&gt; Is it supposed to be as simple as Snape re-using his mother's
&gt;&gt; book?
&gt;
&gt; Yes. It's supposed to be that simple.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Also, is this the first mention we have of Snape's father being
&gt;&gt; a muggle? I can't recall the details of the domestic abuse
&gt;&gt; memory Harry sees in OotP.
&gt;
&gt; I'm certain it was our first indication that his father was a
&gt; Muggle.
&gt; Here's the text you wanted:
&gt;
&gt; &quot;...a hook-nosed man was shouting at a cowering woman, while
&gt; a small dark-haired boy cried in a corner...&quot;
&gt;
&gt; In fact, that memory of apparent domestic abuse seems to run counter
&gt; to the recently revealed reality about Snape's parents. Why would a
&gt; powerful witch cower in front of a mere Muggle? (My hunch is that
&gt; the abuse was strictly verbal and she simply chose to endure it
&gt; rather than divorce him.)

Why...?

Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net
&quot;I'm the impish officer of death.&quot;
-Mike Nelson, _Mystery Science Theater 3000_.

Report this message

#10: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-20 13:46:40 by Toon

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:22:51 +0000 (UTC), <a href="mailto:nospam&#64;nospam.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;nospam.com</a> (Paul
Ciszek) wrote:

&gt;I just now finished reading HP&amp;tHBP. I have a continuity question.
&gt;
&gt;(spoiler space)
&gt;40
&gt;39
&gt;38
&gt;37
&gt;36
&gt;35
&gt;34
&gt;33
&gt;32
&gt;31
&gt;30
&gt;29
&gt;28
&gt;27
&gt;26
&gt;25
&gt;24
&gt;23
&gt;22
&gt;21
&gt;20
&gt;19
&gt;18
&gt;17
&gt;16
&gt;15
&gt;14
&gt;13
&gt;12
&gt;11
&gt;10
&gt;09
&gt;08
&gt;07
&gt;06
&gt;05
&gt;04
&gt;03
&gt;02
&gt;01
&gt;
&gt;Sorry if this has been discussed here before...
&gt;
&gt;Over Christmas break, Harry checks some sort of date in the textbook
&gt;and determines it was used at Hoqwarts fifty years ago, and concludes
&gt;that neither his father nor any of his father's friends could have
&gt;been &quot;The Half Blood Prince&quot; for this reason. I immediately lept to
&gt;the conclusion that it had been Tom Riddle's book. I assume that this
&gt;is what the author intended the reader to do,

No, she flat out told us on her web site it's neither Harry nor
Voldemort/Tom Ridle. Of course, not everyone here believed her.


&gt;At the end of the book, Harry and Hermione are sure that the writing
&gt;is Snape's. Snape was of course a contemporary of Harry's father.
&gt;Harry does not mention the date conflict.

&gt;Is it supposed to be as simple as Snape re-using his mother's book?

Yup.

&gt;Also, is this the first mention we have of Snape's father being a
&gt;muggle?
Yup.

Report this message

#11: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-20 13:48:20 by Toon

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 08:27:24 +1000, &quot;Dac&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:void&#64;main.com" target="_blank">void&#64;main.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;We defaintly won't get a look
&gt;in to the future of the kids etc.

Yes we will. As long as they survive to have a future. Though what
that future is, and if they have one, just got changed for 3
characters. IN ADDITION to a whole buncha others, and not only 3
characters.

Report this message

#12: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-20 13:51:42 by Toon

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 01:58:33 GMT, gjw &lt;<a href="mailto:gjw&#64;example.net" target="_blank">gjw&#64;example.net</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; In fact, that memory of apparent domestic abuse seems to run counter
&gt;to the recently revealed reality about Snape's parents. Why would a
&gt;powerful witch cower in front of a mere Muggle? (My hunch is that the
&gt;abuse was strictly verbal and she simply chose to endure it rather
&gt;than divorce him.)

Maybe not every witch and wizard seeks to hurt Muggles. Maybe the
idea of cursing him was too horrid a thought. Maybe she feared what
would happen if he told, or ran to a Muggle hospital? Or maybe he was
in the right, and she really screwed up.

Report this message

#13: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-20 13:54:38 by Toon

On 19 Jul 2006 19:31:38 -0700, <a href="mailto:wadkin2000&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">wadkin2000&#64;yahoo.com</a> wrote:

&gt;Well, IIRC, emotions do play a role in a wizard's/witch's control of
&gt;magic, i.e., Merope

And Harry especially. His patronus is always strongest when love is
in his heart. Thinking of Hermy and Ron when attacked by Demenetors.
And who wouldn't love to see Umbridge kicked out? if you sprinkle
Fairy Dust on Harry during these moments, he'll fly.

Report this message

#14: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-21 05:26:08 by Mauro

&quot;Fish Eye no Miko&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:fisheye&#64;deadmoon.circus" target="_blank">fisheye&#64;deadmoon.circus</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:8sFvg.12814$<a href="mailto:6w.2817&#64;fed1read11..." target="_blank">6w.2817&#64;fed1read11...</a>
&gt; gjw wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; <a href="mailto:nospam&#64;nospam.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;nospam.com</a> (Paul Ciszek) wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; I just now finished reading HP&amp;tHBP. I have a continuity question.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; (spoiler space)
&gt; &gt;&gt; 40
&gt; &gt;&gt; 39
&gt; &gt;&gt; 38
&gt; &gt;&gt; 37
&gt; &gt;&gt; 36
&gt; &gt;&gt; 35
&gt; &gt;&gt; 34
&gt; &gt;&gt; 33
&gt; &gt;&gt; 32
&gt; &gt;&gt; 31
&gt; &gt;&gt; 30
&gt; &gt;&gt; 29
&gt; &gt;&gt; 28
&gt; &gt;&gt; 27
&gt; &gt;&gt; 26
&gt; &gt;&gt; 25
&gt; &gt;&gt; 24
&gt; &gt;&gt; 23
&gt; &gt;&gt; 22
&gt; &gt;&gt; 21
&gt; &gt;&gt; 20
&gt; &gt;&gt; 19
&gt; &gt;&gt; 18
&gt; &gt;&gt; 17
&gt; &gt;&gt; 16
&gt; &gt;&gt; 15
&gt; &gt;&gt; 14
&gt; &gt;&gt; 13
&gt; &gt;&gt; 12
&gt; &gt;&gt; 11
&gt; &gt;&gt; 10
&gt; &gt;&gt; 09
&gt; &gt;&gt; 08
&gt; &gt;&gt; 07
&gt; &gt;&gt; 06
&gt; &gt;&gt; 05
&gt; &gt;&gt; 04
&gt; &gt;&gt; 03
&gt; &gt;&gt; 02
&gt; &gt;&gt; 01
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; At the end of the book, Harry and Hermione are sure that the
&gt; &gt;&gt; writing is Snape's. Snape was of course a contemporary of
&gt; &gt;&gt; Harry's father. Harry does not mention the date conflict.
&gt; &gt;&gt; Is it supposed to be as simple as Snape re-using his mother's
&gt; &gt;&gt; book?
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Yes. It's supposed to be that simple.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Also, is this the first mention we have of Snape's father being
&gt; &gt;&gt; a muggle? I can't recall the details of the domestic abuse
&gt; &gt;&gt; memory Harry sees in OotP.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; I'm certain it was our first indication that his father was a
&gt; &gt; Muggle.
&gt; &gt; Here's the text you wanted:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &quot;...a hook-nosed man was shouting at a cowering woman, while
&gt; &gt; a small dark-haired boy cried in a corner...&quot;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; In fact, that memory of apparent domestic abuse seems to run counter
&gt; &gt; to the recently revealed reality about Snape's parents. Why would a
&gt; &gt; powerful witch cower in front of a mere Muggle? (My hunch is that
&gt; &gt; the abuse was strictly verbal and she simply chose to endure it
&gt; &gt; rather than divorce him.)
&gt;
&gt; Why...?

Because it happens that way a lot in the real world. Some folks think that
abused people stay in abusive relationships because they have low
self-esteem and don't think they deserve any better, even though no-one
deserves to be abused.

Report this message

#15: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-21 06:18:31 by dicconf

In article &lt;e9mvfv$dvc$<a href="mailto:1&#64;nntp.aioe.org" target="_blank">1&#64;nntp.aioe.org</a>&gt;,
drusilla &lt;<a href="mailto:me&#64;me.net" target="_blank">me&#64;me.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;<a href="mailto:wadkin2000&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">wadkin2000&#64;yahoo.com</a> escribio:
&gt;&gt; gjw wrote:

&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;...a hook-nosed man was shouting at a cowering woman, while
&gt;&gt;&gt; a small dark-haired boy cried in a corner...&quot;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; In fact, that memory of apparent domestic abuse seems to run counter
&gt;&gt;&gt; to the recently revealed reality about Snape's parents. Why would a
&gt;&gt;&gt; powerful witch cower in front of a mere Muggle? (My hunch is that the
&gt;&gt;&gt; abuse was strictly verbal and she simply chose to endure it rather
&gt;&gt;&gt; than divorce him.)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Well, IIRC, emotions do play a role in a wizard's/witch's control of
&gt;&gt; magic, i.e., Merope. It's conceivable that any abuse (physical or
&gt;&gt; mental) that Snape's mother suffered at the hands of her husband
&gt;&gt; affected her ability to perform magic.
&gt;
&gt;Couldn't be Eillen's father? More unlikely for her to perform magic
&gt;against him if this is the case.

That could explain it. I like that idea. Further speculation:
It might even parallel LV's mother's experience, if Tobias Snape left
Eileen (or even divorced her), and she went home to a home that would
take her in, unlike Merope, but where she would be verbally abused for
having married a muggle.
That could have given young Severus a very strong motivation to prove
that he was a wizard even if he couldn't legally do magic outside school.
Chopping ingredients and stirring potions might not quite qualify as
magic to the MoM's spy system, and (like the twins) with a magical
household he might get away with it even if it did qualify.

=Tamar

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#16: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-21 06:57:27 by gjw

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 23:09:15 -0500, drusilla &lt;<a href="mailto:me&#64;me.net" target="_blank">me&#64;me.net</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;<a href="mailto:wadkin2000&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">wadkin2000&#64;yahoo.com</a> escribió:
&gt;&gt; gjw wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:22:51 +0000 (UTC), <a href="mailto:nospam&#64;nospam.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;nospam.com</a> (Paul
&gt;&gt;&gt; Ciszek) wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Also, is this the first mention we have of Snape's father being a
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; muggle? I can't recall the details of the domestic abuse memory
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Harry sees in OotP.
&gt;&gt;&gt; I'm certain it was our first indication that his father was a Muggle.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Here's the text you wanted:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;...a hook-nosed man was shouting at a cowering woman, while a small
&gt;&gt;&gt; dark-haired boy cried in a corner...&quot;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; In fact, that memory of apparent domestic abuse seems to run counter
&gt;&gt;&gt; to the recently revealed reality about Snape's parents. Why would a
&gt;&gt;&gt; powerful witch cower in front of a mere Muggle? (My hunch is that the
&gt;&gt;&gt; abuse was strictly verbal and she simply chose to endure it rather
&gt;&gt;&gt; than divorce him.)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Well, IIRC, emotions do play a role in a wizard's/witch's control of
&gt;&gt; magic, i.e., Merope. It's conceivable that any abuse (physical or
&gt;&gt; mental) that Snape's mother suffered at the hands of her husband
&gt;&gt; affected her ability to perform magic.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;Couldn't be Eillen's father? More unlikely for her to perform magic
&gt;against him if this is the case.

Possible, but less likely. Snape, her son, is present to witness the
event, so she is already married to the Muggle. And the &quot;hook-nosed
description&quot; (used often to describe Snape himself) would lead one to
believe he was Snape's father (her husband).

Report this message

#17: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-21 07:01:27 by gjw

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 23:32:35 -0700, &quot;Fish Eye no Miko&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:fisheye&#64;deadmoon.circus" target="_blank">fisheye&#64;deadmoon.circus</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;gjw wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:nospam&#64;nospam.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;nospam.com</a> (Paul Ciszek) wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I just now finished reading HP&amp;tHBP. I have a continuity question.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; (spoiler space)
&gt;&gt;&gt; 40
&gt;&gt;&gt; 39
&gt;&gt;&gt; 38
&gt;&gt;&gt; 37
&gt;&gt;&gt; 36
&gt;&gt;&gt; 35
&gt;&gt;&gt; 34
&gt;&gt;&gt; 33
&gt;&gt;&gt; 32
&gt;&gt;&gt; 31
&gt;&gt;&gt; 30
&gt;&gt;&gt; 29
&gt;&gt;&gt; 28
&gt;&gt;&gt; 27
&gt;&gt;&gt; 26
&gt;&gt;&gt; 25
&gt;&gt;&gt; 24
&gt;&gt;&gt; 23
&gt;&gt;&gt; 22
&gt;&gt;&gt; 21
&gt;&gt;&gt; 20
&gt;&gt;&gt; 19
&gt;&gt;&gt; 18
&gt;&gt;&gt; 17
&gt;&gt;&gt; 16
&gt;&gt;&gt; 15
&gt;&gt;&gt; 14
&gt;&gt;&gt; 13
&gt;&gt;&gt; 12
&gt;&gt;&gt; 11
&gt;&gt;&gt; 10
&gt;&gt;&gt; 09
&gt;&gt;&gt; 08
&gt;&gt;&gt; 07
&gt;&gt;&gt; 06
&gt;&gt;&gt; 05
&gt;&gt;&gt; 04
&gt;&gt;&gt; 03
&gt;&gt;&gt; 02
&gt;&gt;&gt; 01
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; At the end of the book, Harry and Hermione are sure that the
&gt;&gt;&gt; writing is Snape's. Snape was of course a contemporary of
&gt;&gt;&gt; Harry's father. Harry does not mention the date conflict.
&gt;&gt;&gt; Is it supposed to be as simple as Snape re-using his mother's
&gt;&gt;&gt; book?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Yes. It's supposed to be that simple.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Also, is this the first mention we have of Snape's father being
&gt;&gt;&gt; a muggle? I can't recall the details of the domestic abuse
&gt;&gt;&gt; memory Harry sees in OotP.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I'm certain it was our first indication that his father was a
&gt;&gt; Muggle.
&gt;&gt; Here's the text you wanted:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &quot;...a hook-nosed man was shouting at a cowering woman, while
&gt;&gt; a small dark-haired boy cried in a corner...&quot;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; In fact, that memory of apparent domestic abuse seems to run counter
&gt;&gt; to the recently revealed reality about Snape's parents. Why would a
&gt;&gt; powerful witch cower in front of a mere Muggle? (My hunch is that
&gt;&gt; the abuse was strictly verbal and she simply chose to endure it
&gt;&gt; rather than divorce him.)
&gt;
&gt;Why...?

Why do a million Muggle women do exactly the same thing every day in
real life? Some even tolerate physical abuse rather than leave.
Often, they simply love the man, even if he is a jerk, and the idea of
leaving him is just unthinkable. (On the flip side, a lot of Muggle
men put up with a lot of verbal abuse from their wives as well, and
still stay despite it all - even though they could easily physically
knock her out. Some people are just welling to tolerate almost
anything from someone they care for.)

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#18: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-21 07:05:38 by dicconf

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:ahn0c2hhjgl222up22b0qmcbql734kfcmr&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">ahn0c2hhjgl222up22b0qmcbql734kfcmr&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;,
gjw &lt;<a href="mailto:gjw&#64;example.com" target="_blank">gjw&#64;example.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 23:09:15 -0500, drusilla &lt;<a href="mailto:me&#64;me.net" target="_blank">me&#64;me.net</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;&gt;&gt; gjw wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Here's the text you wanted:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;...a hook-nosed man was shouting at a cowering woman, while a small
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; dark-haired boy cried in a corner...&quot;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In fact, that memory of apparent domestic abuse seems to run counter
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to the recently revealed reality about Snape's parents. Why would a
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; powerful witch cower in front of a mere Muggle? (My hunch is that the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; abuse was strictly verbal and she simply chose to endure it rather
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; than divorce him.)
&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Couldn't be Eileen's father? More unlikely for her to perform magic
&gt;&gt;against him if this is the case.
&gt;
&gt;Possible, but less likely. Snape, her son, is present to witness the
&gt;event, so she is already married to the Muggle. And the &quot;hook-nosed
&gt;description&quot; (used often to describe Snape himself) would lead one to
&gt;believe he was Snape's father (her husband).

I don't recall the description of Eileen mentioning her nose. She may
have developed a larger one later, or even had magical alteration before
her picture was taken, like Hermione's teeth. Or it may have been one of
those characteristics that skips a generation. I look a lot more like
my grandmother than like my mother.

=Tamar

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#19: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-21 09:13:45 by dsueme

Dac wrote:

&gt; I also think heaps of people are going to be really let down by the last
&gt; book.

I too am skeptical that JKR is going to be able to get firm control of
the snitch and come home with a clearly convincing win. On the other
hand, I don't think HP7 is going to be anywhere near the disaster you
might expect after the dismal HP6, for two reasons I have mentioned
before:

1. I think JKR was too pregnant to write more than 40% of HP6 - the
beginning and end. The middle chapters just don't sound right. They
were ghost-written. This won't happen again - JKR knows her reputation
is on the line.

2. There always was a conceptual problem with year six. There is a
big deal set of basic qualifying exams in year five, and an important
set of &quot;expert&quot; exams in year seven, plus graduation. Year six was
rarely if ever mentioned. Nothing important was scheduled for year
six.

Dave

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#20: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-21 11:23:14 by Kish

Mauro wrote:
&gt; &quot;Fish Eye no Miko&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:fisheye&#64;deadmoon.circus" target="_blank">fisheye&#64;deadmoon.circus</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:8sFvg.12814$<a href="mailto:6w.2817&#64;fed1read11..." target="_blank">6w.2817&#64;fed1read11...</a>
&gt;
&gt;&gt;gjw wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;<a href="mailto:nospam&#64;nospam.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;nospam.com</a> (Paul Ciszek) wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;I just now finished reading HP&amp;tHBP. I have a continuity question.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;(spoiler space)
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;40
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;39
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;38
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;37
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;36
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;35
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;34
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;33
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;32
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;31
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;30
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;29
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;28
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;27
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;26
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;25
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;24
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;23
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;22
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;21
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;20
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;19
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;18
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;17
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;16
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;15
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;14
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;13
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;12
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;11
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;10
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;09
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;08
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;07
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;06
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;05
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;04
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;03
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;02
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;01
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;

&gt;&gt;&gt;In fact, that memory of apparent domestic abuse seems to run counter
&gt;&gt;&gt;to the recently revealed reality about Snape's parents. Why would a
&gt;&gt;&gt;powerful witch cower in front of a mere Muggle? (My hunch is that
&gt;&gt;&gt;the abuse was strictly verbal and she simply chose to endure it
&gt;&gt;&gt;rather than divorce him.)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Why...?
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Because it happens that way a lot in the real world. Some folks think that
&gt; abused people stay in abusive relationships because they have low
&gt; self-esteem and don't think they deserve any better, even though no-one
&gt; deserves to be abused.

I would--expanding on what you just said--say that for a witch to cower
in front of a &quot;mere&quot; Muggle is nowhere near as implausible as gjw finds
it. Most abused spouses could end the abuse at any time by picking up
the phone and calling the police. They don't for psychological
reasons--reasons which could as effectively block a witch from using
magic on her abusive husband. We know from HBP that depression and
psychological ills can sap one's magical powers.

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#21: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-22 02:22:21 by gjw

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 05:05:38 -0000, <a href="mailto:dicconf&#64;radix.net" target="_blank">dicconf&#64;radix.net</a> (Richard Eney)
wrote:

&gt;In article &lt;<a href="mailto:ahn0c2hhjgl222up22b0qmcbql734kfcmr&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">ahn0c2hhjgl222up22b0qmcbql734kfcmr&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;,
&gt;gjw &lt;<a href="mailto:gjw&#64;example.com" target="_blank">gjw&#64;example.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 23:09:15 -0500, drusilla &lt;<a href="mailto:me&#64;me.net" target="_blank">me&#64;me.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; gjw wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Here's the text you wanted:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;...a hook-nosed man was shouting at a cowering woman, while a small
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; dark-haired boy cried in a corner...&quot;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In fact, that memory of apparent domestic abuse seems to run counter
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to the recently revealed reality about Snape's parents. Why would a
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; powerful witch cower in front of a mere Muggle? (My hunch is that the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; abuse was strictly verbal and she simply chose to endure it rather
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; than divorce him.)
&gt;&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Couldn't be Eileen's father? More unlikely for her to perform magic
&gt;&gt;&gt;against him if this is the case.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Possible, but less likely. Snape, her son, is present to witness the
&gt;&gt;event, so she is already married to the Muggle. And the &quot;hook-nosed
&gt;&gt;description&quot; (used often to describe Snape himself) would lead one to
&gt;&gt;believe he was Snape's father (her husband).
&gt;
&gt;I don't recall the description of Eileen mentioning her nose.

That's just it. If it had said &quot;a hook-nosed woman&quot;, we could then
assume that Snape inherited the trait from her, and that the man in
the picture might be any male in a position of dominance.

But by showing Snape, a man and a woman together, then describing the
man in the picture (but not the mother) as &quot;hook-nosed&quot;, it definitely
gives the impression that we are seeing Snape's parents.

In fact, that description actually gives us more evidence for the man
being Snape's father than it does for the woman being Snape's mother.
For all we know, it could be Snape's father yelling at his Muggle
nanny. But personally, I'm certain it's supposed to be Snape's
parents.

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#22: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-22 02:36:16 by gjw

&gt;Dac wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I also think heaps of people are going to be really let down by the last
&gt;&gt; book.

Well, that's virtually inevitable, because people have conflicting
expectations, and both sides can't be satisfied.

For instance, obviously the Harry/Hermione camp is going to be let
down when Harry &amp; Ginny end up together. (On the other hand, if JKR
killed Ginny and tossed Harry &amp; Hermione back together, the
Ron/Hermione camp would have a heart attack.)

Likewise, the Snape camp is divided between those who are determined
to see him as a hero, and those who recognize a nasty villain when
they see one. When she reveals his true loyalties, one of those two
camps is going to be let down. (My own take, that Snape is loyal to
no one but himself, might disappoint those in both camps.)

Killing Harry would disappoint the vast majority of the readership,
but even there, there seems to be a tiny segment of readers actually
rooting for Harry's demise (although I'm not sure exactly why).

She has been hinting that the power of love will ultimately defeat
Voldemort, but it will be difficult to write that into a scenario
without getting it sticky sweet. Yet, if she just has Harry ruthlessly
kill LV, she'll get complaints about ignoring her former emphasis on
love.

Then there are a zillion small, dangling plot threads that JKR needs
to clear up: everything from the gleam in Dumbledore's eye, to the
phoenix at his funeral, to Neville's final purpose, to why Hagrid was
at Godric's Hollow... She's almost certain to miss a few of those
dangling threads, and when she does, the complaints will pour in.

(I'm still waiting on a definitive answer about the time-turner
controversy, but I'm resigned that we will never get one... ;)

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#23: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-22 06:36:44 by drusilla

Richard Eney escribió:
&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:ahn0c2hhjgl222up22b0qmcbql734kfcmr&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">ahn0c2hhjgl222up22b0qmcbql734kfcmr&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;,
&gt; gjw &lt;<a href="mailto:gjw&#64;example.com" target="_blank">gjw&#64;example.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 23:09:15 -0500, drusilla &lt;<a href="mailto:me&#64;me.net" target="_blank">me&#64;me.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; gjw wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Here's the text you wanted:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;...a hook-nosed man was shouting at a cowering woman, while a small
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; dark-haired boy cried in a corner...&quot;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In fact, that memory of apparent domestic abuse seems to run counter
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to the recently revealed reality about Snape's parents. Why would a
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; powerful witch cower in front of a mere Muggle? (My hunch is that the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; abuse was strictly verbal and she simply chose to endure it rather
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; than divorce him.)
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Couldn't be Eileen's father? More unlikely for her to perform magic
&gt;&gt;&gt; against him if this is the case.
&gt;&gt; Possible, but less likely. Snape, her son, is present to witness the
&gt;&gt; event, so she is already married to the Muggle.

Perhaps Snape SR. died or wasn't around. And if this supposed Eileen's
father was abusive, why wouldn't he be abusive in front of his
daughter's son?

And the &quot;hook-nosed
&gt;&gt; description&quot; (used often to describe Snape himself) would lead one to
&gt;&gt; believe he was Snape's father (her husband).
&gt;
&gt; I don't recall the description of Eileen mentioning her nose. She may
&gt; have developed a larger one later, or even had magical alteration before
&gt; her picture was taken, like Hermione's teeth. Or it may have been one of
&gt; those characteristics that skips a generation. I look a lot more like
&gt; my grandmother than like my mother.
&gt;
&gt; =Tamar

If she was looking straight at the person who took the picture, or
wasn't moving that much, it's posible that it was hard to catch whether
Snape had his mother's nose. But, yes, I do look more like my
grandfather than any of my parents.

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#24: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-22 06:47:25 by drusilla

David Sueme escribió:
&gt; Dac wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I also think heaps of people are going to be really let down by the last
&gt;&gt; book.
&gt;
&gt; I too am skeptical that JKR is going to be able to get firm control of
&gt; the snitch and come home with a clearly convincing win. On the other
&gt; hand, I don't think HP7 is going to be anywhere near the disaster you
&gt; might expect after the dismal HP6, for two reasons I have mentioned
&gt; before:
&gt;
&gt; 1. I think JKR was too pregnant to write more than 40% of HP6 - the
&gt; beginning and end. The middle chapters just don't sound right. They
&gt; were ghost-written. This won't happen again - JKR knows her reputation
&gt; is on the line.

HOw being too pregnant wouldn't allow her to write?
Also, I've never heard of anyone - besides you - who thinks the books
were ghost-written. (ok, perhaps those rumours of several writers). Why
would she be worry?

&gt; 2. There always was a conceptual problem with year six. There is a
&gt; big deal set of basic qualifying exams in year five, and an important
&gt; set of &quot;expert&quot; exams in year seven, plus graduation. Year six was
&gt; rarely if ever mentioned. Nothing important was scheduled for year
&gt; six.

We knew already that and it makes sense. after a hard year of tests,
they have two years to prepare themselves for a last one.

And if you are that disappointed, would you tell me, please, what
exactly did you want to find in book 6? I agree, I was some sort
disappointed about certain stuff: I found a Harry who was too much ready
to move on, when the person he perhaps loved the most had a terrible
dead that was partially his own fault. I did hope Harry to be even
gloomier than he is sometimes, and perhaps feeling defeated: It made no
much sense to me.

Yet, I don't doubt it was JKR who wrote the book from beginging to end.

&gt; Dave
&gt;

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#25: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-22 09:30:20 by nospam

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:01s2c2174qt76dcmo8ol1c82ahvm53pc0b&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">01s2c2174qt76dcmo8ol1c82ahvm53pc0b&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;,
gjw &lt;<a href="mailto:gjw&#64;example.com" target="_blank">gjw&#64;example.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;She has been hinting that the power of love will ultimately defeat
&gt;Voldemort, but it will be difficult to write that into a scenario
&gt;without getting it sticky sweet. Yet, if she just has Harry ruthlessly
&gt;kill LV, she'll get complaints about ignoring her former emphasis on
&gt;love.

I think you could write a good scene in which the combined absolute
loyalty and trust of Ron, Hermione, Ginny, and Neville somehow makes
it possible for Harry to beat Voldemort.

&gt;Then there are a zillion small, dangling plot threads that JKR needs
&gt;to clear up: everything from the gleam in Dumbledore's eye, to the
&gt;phoenix at his funeral, to Neville's final purpose, to why Hagrid was

How about Neville as, simply, an ally? According to book 6 he isn't
doing all that badly in his magic studies, and he has motivation. His
purpose could be as basic as taking out half a dozen Death Eaters
before they get him.

&gt;(I'm still waiting on a definitive answer about the time-turner
&gt;controversy, but I'm resigned that we will never get one... ;)

It is mentioned in Book 6 that the entire supply of Time Turners
was smashed in the fight at the ministry. I think Rowling regretted
having introduced the time turner in the first place--as on Star Trek,
the fact that time travel is possible ruins every possible plot.

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#26: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-22 09:36:50 by nospam

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:idotb2pth44bbhbu5qu5prfu9p5bjrmttj&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">idotb2pth44bbhbu5qu5prfu9p5bjrmttj&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;,
gjw &lt;<a href="mailto:gjw&#64;example.com" target="_blank">gjw&#64;example.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:22:51 +0000 (UTC), <a href="mailto:nospam&#64;nospam.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;nospam.com</a> (Paul
&gt;Ciszek) wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;I just now finished reading HP&amp;tHBP. I have a continuity question.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;(spoiler space)
&gt;&gt;40
&gt;&gt;39
&gt;&gt;38
&gt;&gt;37
&gt;&gt;36
&gt;&gt;35
&gt;&gt;34
&gt;&gt;33
&gt;&gt;32
&gt;&gt;31
&gt;&gt;30
&gt;&gt;29
&gt;&gt;28
&gt;&gt;27
&gt;&gt;26
&gt;&gt;25
&gt;&gt;24
&gt;&gt;23
&gt;&gt;22
&gt;&gt;21
&gt;&gt;20
&gt;&gt;19
&gt;&gt;18
&gt;&gt;17
&gt;&gt;16
&gt;&gt;15
&gt;&gt;14
&gt;&gt;13
&gt;&gt;12
&gt;&gt;11
&gt;&gt;10
&gt;&gt;09
&gt;&gt;08
&gt;&gt;07
&gt;&gt;06
&gt;&gt;05
&gt;&gt;04
&gt;&gt;03
&gt;&gt;02
&gt;&gt;01
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; In fact, that memory of apparent domestic abuse seems to run counter
&gt;to the recently revealed reality about Snape's parents. Why would a
&gt;powerful witch cower in front of a mere Muggle?

Unfortunately I find it all too believable. Some abused women will
not lift a finger to save their own lives or the lives of their
children. Magic wand or cell phone with &quot;9-1-1&quot; on speed dial; you
have to be willing to *use* it for it to do any good.

--
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#27: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-22 10:31:16 by dsueme

drusilla wrote:

&gt; HOw being too pregnant wouldn't allow her to write?

Well, for starters, blood flow being diverted down there to the baby
production department.

&gt; Yet, I don't doubt it was JKR who wrote the book from beginging to end.

Well, I'll tell you what then dru - whoever wrote all those lame and
unsubtle discriptions of envy as &quot;...the raging beast reawoke in
Harry's belly&quot; is a really, really, poor maladroit writer. Now, if you
want to believe that the &quot;raging beast&quot; writer is JKR, then fine. Do
so. I prefer to believe that a ghost writer wrote those lines.

Following Plato, I believe that ignorance is the essence of evil. And
stupidity is the paradigm case of ignorance, so if faced with the
choice of being known as a cheat or a dolt, I reluctantly choose cheat.
I'm according JKR the benefit of the doubt I wish for myself.

Dave

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#28: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-23 04:53:17 by gjw

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 07:30:20 +0000 (UTC), <a href="mailto:nospam&#64;nospam.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;nospam.com</a> (Paul
Ciszek) wrote:

&gt;
&gt;In article &lt;<a href="mailto:01s2c2174qt76dcmo8ol1c82ahvm53pc0b&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">01s2c2174qt76dcmo8ol1c82ahvm53pc0b&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;,
&gt;gjw &lt;<a href="mailto:gjw&#64;example.com" target="_blank">gjw&#64;example.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;&gt;(I'm still waiting on a definitive answer about the time-turner
&gt;&gt;controversy, but I'm resigned that we will never get one... ;)
&gt;
&gt;It is mentioned in Book 6 that the entire supply of Time Turners
&gt;was smashed in the fight at the ministry. I think Rowling regretted
&gt;having introduced the time turner in the first place--as on Star Trek,
&gt;the fact that time travel is possible ruins every possible plot.


Yes, I know. That's why I said I was resigned to never getting an
answer. She just got rid of the evidence. ;)

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#29: Bad writing

Posted on 2006-07-23 05:31:56 by nospam

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1153557076.802811.274920&#64;m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1153557076.802811.274920&#64;m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
David Sueme &lt;<a href="mailto:dsueme&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">dsueme&#64;comcast.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;drusilla wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; HOw being too pregnant wouldn't allow her to write?
&gt;
&gt;Well, for starters, blood flow being diverted down there to the baby
&gt;production department.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Yet, I don't doubt it was JKR who wrote the book from beginging to end.
&gt;
&gt;Well, I'll tell you what then dru - whoever wrote all those lame and
&gt;unsubtle discriptions of envy as &quot;...the raging beast reawoke in
&gt;Harry's belly&quot; is a really, really, poor maladroit writer. Now, if you
&gt;want to believe that the &quot;raging beast&quot; writer is JKR, then fine. Do
&gt;so. I prefer to believe that a ghost writer wrote those lines.

Yes, there was a whole section their where the writing about emotions--
the emotions of everyone in Griffyndor anyway--was so over-the-top that
I wondered if maybe someone in the story was messing with them, and the
way Hermione asked Harry how he was feeling had me thinking that Hermione
suspected something similar. But no, it was just bad writing.


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#30: Re: Bad writing

Posted on 2006-07-23 05:40:35 by nystulc

Paul Ciszek wrote:
&gt; David Sueme &lt;<a href="mailto:dsueme&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">dsueme&#64;comcast.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;Well, I'll tell you what then dru - whoever wrote all those lame and
&gt; &gt;unsubtle discriptions of envy as &quot;...the raging beast reawoke in
&gt; &gt;Harry's belly&quot; is a really, really, poor maladroit writer. [...] I prefer to believe
&gt; &gt;that a ghost writer wrote those lines.
&gt;
&gt; Yes, there was a whole section their where the writing about emotions--
&gt; the emotions of everyone in Griffyndor anyway--was so over-the-top that
&gt; I wondered if maybe someone in the story was messing with them, and the
&gt; way Hermione asked Harry how he was feeling had me thinking that Hermione
&gt; suspected something similar. But no, it was just bad writing.

Can nobody put two and two together? What, according to Slughorn, is
the difference between genuine love, and the sort of &quot;love&quot; that is
generated by a love potion? And which better fits the description of
Harry's feelings?

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#31: : Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-23 06:11:06 by Charms

Sometimes its feel less, like Assume if harry really want to finsh
Voldemort. He has to master occlumens and non-verbal spells mainly.

But harry seems to have no sense of finishing him off. Its kind of
foolish. Harry is made a stupid boy while his father, Sririus and the
voldemort at that stage was outstanding.

What do u think ?
Regards
Charms Styler

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#32: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-23 09:45:35 by Toon

On 22 Jul 2006 01:31:16 -0700, &quot;David Sueme&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:dsueme&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">dsueme&#64;comcast.net</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;
&gt;drusilla wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; HOw being too pregnant wouldn't allow her to write?
&gt;
&gt;Well, for starters, blood flow being diverted down there to the baby
&gt;production department.

No, that's men. Women have enough blood for both top and bottom
flows. Men OTOH, most certainly do not. It's either blood upstairs,
or down.

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#33: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-23 09:47:40 by Toon

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 07:30:20 +0000 (UTC), <a href="mailto:nospam&#64;nospam.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;nospam.com</a> (Paul
Ciszek) wrote:

&gt; I think Rowling regretted
&gt;having introduced the time turner in the first place

I thinks he was avoiding people's stupid belief that everything would
be better if someone time traveled back in time and altered the past.

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#34: Re: : Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-23 14:13:58 by Toon

On 22 Jul 2006 21:11:06 -0700, &quot;Charms&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:megacharms&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">megacharms&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Sometimes its feel less, like Assume if harry really want to finsh
&gt;Voldemort. He has to master occlumens and non-verbal spells mainly.
&gt;
&gt;But harry seems to have no sense of finishing him off. Its kind of
&gt;foolish. Harry is made a stupid boy while his father, Sririus and the
&gt;voldemort at that stage was outstanding.
&gt;
&gt;What do u think ?
&gt;Regards
&gt;Charms Styler

Um, he's just a kid? A kid who now knows he must kill to save
everybody else.

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#35: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-23 18:44:46 by Mauro

&quot;David Sueme&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:dsueme&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">dsueme&#64;comcast.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1153557076.802811.274920&#64;m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1153557076.802811.274920&#64;m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;
&gt; drusilla wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; HOw being too pregnant wouldn't allow her to write?
&gt;
&gt; Well, for starters, blood flow being diverted down there to the baby
&gt; production department.

Bzzzt, sorry, wrong again. Blood volume in pregnant mothers starts
increasing around the sixth week of pregnancy and continues to increase
through around week 32 or 33.

&gt; Following Plato, I believe that ignorance is the essence of evil.

No comment.

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#36: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-23 22:39:23 by Markku Uttula

Toon wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; HOw being too pregnant wouldn't allow her to write?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Well, for starters, blood flow being diverted down there to the baby
&gt;&gt; production department.
&gt;
&gt; No, that's men. Women have enough blood for both top and bottom
&gt; flows. Men OTOH, most certainly do not. It's either blood upstairs,
&gt; or down.

Ouch :)

--
Markku Uttula

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#37: Re: Half Blood Prince Question, spoilers

Posted on 2006-07-24 02:33:44 by drusilla

Mauro escribió:
&gt; &quot;David Sueme&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:dsueme&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">dsueme&#64;comcast.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:<a href="mailto:1153557076.802811.274920&#64;m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1153557076.802811.274920&#64;m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;&gt; drusilla wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; HOw being too pregnant wouldn't allow her to write?
&gt;&gt; Well, for starters, blood flow being diverted down there to the baby
&gt;&gt; production department.
&gt;
&gt; Bzzzt, sorry, wrong again. Blood volume in pregnant mothers starts
&gt; increasing around the sixth week of pregnancy and continues to increase
&gt; through around week 32 or 33.

That's what I was going to say: I've been pregnant and made lots of
writing work with no problem.

&gt;&gt; Following Plato, I believe that ignorance is the essence of evil.
&gt;
&gt; No comment.

I believe ignorance is the essence of many of our problems, but not
evil. At least not all the time.

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