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#1: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 18:50:01 by Cathy Young

(Ah, the perennial AFP bra thread.)

I've been wanting to buy some new bras recently, and I've got all
confused about sizes again. I am an awkward size (small frame, large
bust), which makes shopping (and trying different sizes, etc) doubly
difficult since there are hardly any non-specialist shops in existence
which stock my size - I've found Figleaves and Bravissimo's websites to
be a godsend, as it's pretty much the only way I can buy bras. The
downside is that it makes trying on a bunch of different makes/sizes
impractical and very costly for me, pre-return.

What with hearing all these horror stories about women who go through
life with the wrong-sized bra for decades, I measured myself the other
day and checked with various online fitting guides[1] - they all pretty
unanimously gave me 34DD - a band size larger than I'm used to, and
*three* cup sizes smaller than I have at present.

I got confused. Surely I couldn't be that far out? I remeasured. I got
my boyfriend to measure. Same results. My current bras seem to fit me
fairly well, although they do dig in at the front of the band sometimes
(I assumed due to the weight of my breasts), but I started getting
paranoid. The only time I've been professionally measured was when I was
15 (five years ago) and I was declared a 32F then - although that was in
M&S, and I know how notoriously unreliable they can be...

In the meantime, I had ordered a Rigby & Peller bra that I saw was
half-price (bringing it into my normal bra price range[2]) and it fitted
beautifully. The bit between the cups was flat against my chest and
everything. The only thing is that I realised that I had done it up on
the tightest set of hooks, as with most of my bras, which may mean that
the band is a little big... which could push me into a 30G. Wow,
*that's* a normal size that it'll be easy to find bras in... (grr)

In conclusion then, I guess I have pretty much the right size (I hope).
But then, is the "official" fitting guide *so* far out? Doesn't this
mean that it's completely useless as far as finding your size goes? Is
it perhaps only useless for those of us with non-average breasts? Or do
I just have a weirdly-shaped bust? Will we ever find out who shot JR?

Why do I have the feeling that AFP will overwhelmingly answer the last
question instead of the others? :-)


[1] It goes something like: measure under breasts, add five (or three if
over 33'), round down if an odd number (of inches), measure around cups,
subtract difference... yada yada.

[2] £25-£35 - and that's for something fairly basic. To get something
'pretty', you generally need to add at least a fiver onto that, which I
can't justify for a piece of underwear! Man, it'll be nice in The Future
(TM) when all high-street fashion shops will accept DD+ cups as normal
and won't force us into over-priced specialist shops with no range...

--
Cathy
<a href="http://www.bentbacktulips.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.bentbacktulips.co.uk/</a>

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#2: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 19:08:51 by jester

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 17:50:01 +0100, Cathy Young
&lt;<a href="mailto:cathy&#64;bentbacktulips.co.uk" target="_blank">cathy&#64;bentbacktulips.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;But then, is the &quot;official&quot; fitting guide *so* far out?

Yes.

&gt;Doesn't this mean that it's completely useless as far as finding your
&gt;size goes?

Yes

&gt;Is it perhaps only useless for those of us with non-average breasts?

Possibly, possibly not.

&gt;Or do I just have a weirdly-shaped bust?

JPG?

&gt;Will we ever find out who shot JR?

I believe he was shot by the camera crew every week.

&gt;Why do I have the feeling that AFP will overwhelmingly answer the last
&gt;question instead of the others? :-)

Experience.

--
Andy Brown
Pascal - A programming language named after a man who would turn over in his
grave if he knew about it.

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#3: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 19:23:55 by clanwilliam

Cathy Young wrote:

&gt; What with hearing all these horror stories about women who go through
&gt; life with the wrong-sized bra for decades, I measured myself the other
&gt; day and checked with various online fitting guides[1] - they all pretty
&gt; unanimously gave me 34DD - a band size larger than I'm used to, and
&gt; *three* cup sizes smaller than I have at present.

Those online fitting guides are complete rubbish. The &quot;standard&quot;
guidance seems to only fit women with really bizarre breasts - so it's
hardly surprising that something like 75% of women in the UK allegedly
wear the wrong bra size.

Simple rule for getting an approximation: the measurement around your
chest below your breasts is your bra size. Subtract this from the
measurement around your breasts at the fullest point to get your cup
size - go up a cup size for each inch (not counting double-letter
sizes).

Then go and try on lots of bras to get an idea - you may find that your
back size is bigger in some bras, and your cup size is bigger or
smaller, depending on the make. In conclusion then, I guess I have
pretty much the right size (I hope).
&gt; But then, is the &quot;official&quot; fitting guide *so* far out? Doesn't this
&gt; mean that it's completely useless as far as finding your size goes? Is
&gt; it perhaps only useless for those of us with non-average breasts? Or do
&gt; I just have a weirdly-shaped bust? Will we ever find out who shot JR?

No, you're not weird, you're normal. I've been told by one of those
online guides that I'm a 40AA (anyone who's seen me will assure you
that I'm not), and I know of other people who have been told far too
big a back size and far too small a cup size.

Jenny

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#4: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 19:27:04 by Diane L

Cathy Young wrote:
&gt; (Ah, the perennial AFP bra thread.)

&lt;starts singing &quot;Happy days are here again&quot;&gt;

&gt; In conclusion then, I guess I have pretty much the right size (I
&gt; hope). But then, is the &quot;official&quot; fitting guide *so* far out?

Yes. When I went to shops that had been trained to measure the
&quot;official&quot; way, they invariably tried to fit me with bras that were
far too big in the back size and far too small in the cup size. When
I went to a specialist bra shop they estimated my size and then
kept trying different bras until they found one that fitted (and
looked good!). I went in wearing a 46E and walked out wearing
a 34J. So I can well believe that your &quot;official&quot; measurements
are that far out.

&gt; Doesn't this mean that it's completely useless as far as finding your
&gt; size goes? Is it perhaps only useless for those of us with
&gt; non-average breasts?

I think it just doesn't scale up properly, so it's probably OK for
those lucky enough to have 'normal' breasts. I dunno if it works
as badly for those with below average cup sizes, though.

&gt; Or do I just have a weirdly-shaped bust?

It's hard to tell from here. :-)

&gt; Will we ever find out who shot JR?

It was a dream, wasn't it?

&gt; Why do I have the feeling that AFP will overwhelmingly answer the last
&gt; question instead of the others? :-)

Past experience?

The best advice I can give is to go to a proper, specialist bra shop,
where they're used to seeing women with breasts that aren't
average. Finding one isn't always easy, though. Where do you
live? I know of a good shop in Pontefract, West Yorkshire.

Diane L.

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#5: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 19:40:30 by paul.cooke100

Cathy Young wrote:

&gt; [2] £25-£35 - and that's for something fairly basic. To get something
&gt; 'pretty', you generally need to add at least a fiver onto that, which I
&gt; can't justify for a piece of underwear! Man, it'll be nice in The Future
&gt; (TM) when all high-street fashion shops will accept DD+ cups as normal
&gt; and won't force us into over-priced specialist shops with no range...

I find Debenhams are good for range, fashionability AND price, when I have
to take my teenage daughter shopping for a new bra... (she's 32E and we
cannot find anything in any other high street shops) and I flat out refuse
to use mail order/internet shops as she's had nightmares before with stuff
that didn't fit properly.

us single parents have enough trouble and then we have to take them lingerie
shopping as well... arghhhhh

--
XP, unsafe on the information highway at any speed

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#6: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 20:05:48 by Nigel Stapley

jester wrote:
&gt; On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 17:50:01 +0100, Cathy Young

&gt;
&gt;&gt; Or do I just have a weirdly-shaped bust?
&gt;
&gt; JPG?
&gt;

BMPs, shirley?


--
Regards

Nigel Stapley

www.judgemental.plus.com

&lt;reply-to will bounce&gt;

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#7: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 20:08:27 by jester

On Tue, 4 Jul 2006 18:27:04 +0100, Diane L
&lt;<a href="mailto:dianenews&#64;lindquist.plus.com" target="_blank">dianenews&#64;lindquist.plus.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&lt;snip bra sizing&gt;
&gt;
&gt;I think it just doesn't scale up properly, so it's probably OK for
&gt;those lucky enough to have 'normal' breasts. I dunno if it works
&gt;as badly for those with below average cup sizes, though.

Possibly worse, because there's a fair chance of measured size + offset
being larger than size around breasts if there's not much breast.

--
Andy Brown
First they came for the verbs, and I said nothing because verbing weirds
language. Then they arrival for the nouns, and I speech nothing because
I no verbs. - Peter Ellis on afp

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#8: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 20:35:59 by nomail

&gt; I've been wanting to buy some new bras recently, and I've got all
&gt; confused about sizes again. I am an awkward size (small frame, large
&gt; bust), which makes shopping (and trying different sizes, etc) doubly
&gt; difficult since there are hardly any non-specialist shops in existence
&gt; which stock my size - I've found Figleaves and Bravissimo's websites to
&gt; be a godsend, as it's pretty much the only way I can buy bras. The
&gt; downside is that it makes trying on a bunch of different makes/sizes
&gt; impractical and very costly for me, pre-return.

Unless you're on a tight budget, specialst shops, despite the high
prices, may be the way you need to go. My wife has an extremely large
bust-- basically off the scale, no matter what scale you're talking
about. (And it's not silicone[1] either.) The last time she was
measured, she was declared 36II.

In the end, she ended up making herself thick-fabric corsets. This way,
she has something that actually supports the weight, and since the part
wrapping around her is larger than 1-2 cm, it doesn't cut into her skin.



[1] Or any other potentially dangerous substance used to feed ladies'
vanities, their partners' egos, or their customers' libidos.

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#9: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 20:41:38 by Random C

Cathy Young wrote:
&gt; (Ah, the perennial AFP bra thread.)
&gt;
The online measurement guides tell me I'm a 36C. Selfridges tell me I'm
a 30 or 32D. Selfridges are right. For the first time *ever* my bras
don't hurt.
--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#10: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 20:43:04 by Random C

<a href="mailto:clanwilliam&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">clanwilliam&#64;gmail.com</a> wrote:

&gt; No, you're not weird, you're normal. I've been told by one of those
&gt; online guides that I'm a 40AA (anyone who's seen me will assure you
&gt; that I'm not), and I know of other people who have been told far too
&gt; big a back size and far too small a cup size.
&gt;
*waves* that'd be me.
Which was handy, actually as the far-too-big-in-the-cups bra I bought to
pad out for Miss Banana Whip actually fits me perfectly.
--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#11: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 20:45:55 by SteveD

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 17:50:01 +0100, Cathy Young
&lt;<a href="mailto:cathy&#64;bentbacktulips.co.uk" target="_blank">cathy&#64;bentbacktulips.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;But then, is the &quot;official&quot; fitting guide *so* far out? Doesn't this
&gt;mean that it's completely useless as far as finding your size goes?

Yes, and only *mostly* useless.

I think the problem is that two measurements by themselves do not contain
enough information to allow a perfect fit to be selected. They're more
like... guidelines.

This is what bra-shop assistants are for, if they know their trade. They
can take the figures, and *also* get an idea of the actual shape of the
customer, with a view towards pointing them in the direction of a bra
mfr/model combination that best suits them.

In order to clear up this confusion, a new bra-measuring system will need
to be developed that uses more than just those two measurements. Either
that, or self-adjusting bras will need to be invented.


-SteveD

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#12: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 20:46:54 by Random C

Paul Cooke wrote:
&gt; Cathy Young wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;[2] £25-£35 - and that's for something fairly basic. To get something
&gt;&gt;'pretty', you generally need to add at least a fiver onto that, which I
&gt;&gt;can't justify for a piece of underwear! Man, it'll be nice in The Future
&gt;&gt;(TM) when all high-street fashion shops will accept DD+ cups as normal
&gt;&gt;and won't force us into over-priced specialist shops with no range...
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I find Debenhams are good for range, fashionability AND price, when I have
&gt; to take my teenage daughter shopping for a new bra... (she's 32E and we
&gt; cannot find anything in any other high street shops) and I flat out refuse
&gt; to use mail order/internet shops as she's had nightmares before with stuff
&gt; that didn't fit properly.
&gt;
I would also like to chip in with this:
While I spent £90 on two bras in Selfridges when I got measured, I *had*
picked the two most expensive, partly because I had never had any bras
that fit so well, and partly because I'd never had bras that were just
plain *pretty*. I'd always had padded monstrosities, because I thought I
was flat-chested and needed them (I went in wearing a 34B and came out
wearing a 32D and a huge grin) but I could just as easily have got bras
that were about £20 each. I also have a Debenhams bra that fits just as
well as the poncy ones, and was, IIRC, £15 two cons ago.

--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#13: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 21:06:38 by Random C

Random C wrote:
&gt; Cathy Young wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; (Ah, the perennial AFP bra thread.)
&gt;&gt;
&gt; The online measurement guides tell me I'm a 36C. Selfridges tell me I'm
&gt; a 30 or 32D. Selfridges are right. For the first time *ever* my bras
&gt; don't hurt.
Oh, I just looked at another one someone commented about on LJ. *that*
tells me I'm a 38A.

--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#14: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 21:28:21 by Cathy Young

Diane L wrote:
&gt; Cathy Young wrote:

&gt;&gt; In conclusion then, I guess I have pretty much the right size (I
&gt;&gt; hope). But then, is the &quot;official&quot; fitting guide *so* far out?
&gt;
&gt; Yes.

I'm glad everyone keeps saying this; I thought I was going loopy. It's a
bit weird when there's this One Accepted Way of measuring for a bra, and
apparently a significant percentage of women for whom it doesn't work at
all. Makes you wonder who came up with the system in the first place,
and *why*...

&gt; When
&gt; I went to a specialist bra shop they estimated my size and then
&gt; kept trying different bras until they found one that fitted (and
&gt; looked good!). I went in wearing a 46E and walked out wearing
&gt; a 34J. So I can well believe that your &quot;official&quot; measurements
&gt; are that far out.

Ouch, that must be hellish trying to find anything in your size... I
thought I had troubles :-)

&gt; The best advice I can give is to go to a proper, specialist bra shop,
&gt; where they're used to seeing women with breasts that aren't
&gt; average. Finding one isn't always easy, though. Where do you
&gt; live? I know of a good shop in Pontefract, West Yorkshire.

It does seem like the best thing to do. I live in Coventry, and looking
at Bravissimo's website shows that they have a shop in Solihull, not too
far away. I shall have to hie me down there someday soon...

--
Cathy
<a href="http://www.bentbacktulips.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.bentbacktulips.co.uk/</a>

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#15: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 21:29:52 by Cathy Young

jester wrote:
&gt; On Tue, 4 Jul 2006 18:27:04 +0100, Diane L
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:dianenews&#64;lindquist.plus.com" target="_blank">dianenews&#64;lindquist.plus.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &lt;snip bra sizing&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;I think it just doesn't scale up properly, so it's probably OK for
&gt;&gt;those lucky enough to have 'normal' breasts. I dunno if it works
&gt;&gt;as badly for those with below average cup sizes, though.
&gt;
&gt; Possibly worse, because there's a fair chance of measured size + offset
&gt; being larger than size around breasts if there's not much breast.

So what we're saying is that the sizing system barely works at all for
women with larger breasts, and may be even worse for those with smaller
breasts?

Tell me there's *someone* out there for whom this produces the correct
size...

--
Cathy
<a href="http://www.bentbacktulips.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.bentbacktulips.co.uk/</a>

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#16: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 21:31:32 by Cathy Young

Nigel Stapley wrote:
&gt; jester wrote:
&gt;&gt; On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 17:50:01 +0100, Cathy Young
&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Or do I just have a weirdly-shaped bust?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; JPG?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; BMPs, shirley?

Sorry, I only have a pair of TIFFs, and they're too large to post on the
group...

--
Cathy
<a href="http://www.bentbacktulips.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.bentbacktulips.co.uk/</a>

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#17: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 21:34:44 by Random C

Cathy Young wrote:

&gt; Tell me there's *someone* out there for whom this produces the correct
&gt; size...
&gt;

....you expect this? Are you that one fabled woman for whom the clothes
in shops *actually fit*? (In marks and spencers I am somewhere between a
6 and a 14. From what I can work out, my waist is a 6 and my arse is a
14. In Miss Selfridge, last I tried a size 16 was far too small.
On pure measurements, I am within a couple of centimetres of the
apparent fashion-industry ideal size 12 that sample garments are made to
(or as my drafting tutor put it 'goodness! You're almost a Gloria!
Except a different *shape*...')
--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#18: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 21:35:30 by Lister

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 20:31:32 +0100, Cathy Young
&lt;<a href="mailto:cathy&#64;bentbacktulips.co.uk" target="_blank">cathy&#64;bentbacktulips.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Nigel Stapley wrote:
&gt;&gt; jester wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 17:50:01 +0100, Cathy Young
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Or do I just have a weirdly-shaped bust?
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; JPG?
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; BMPs, shirley?
&gt;
&gt;Sorry, I only have a pair of TIFFs, and they're too large to post on the
&gt;group...


*snigger*

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#19: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 21:46:23 by Cathy Young

<a href="mailto:clanwilliam&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">clanwilliam&#64;gmail.com</a> wrote:
&gt; Cathy Young wrote:

&gt; Those online fitting guides are complete rubbish. [...]
&gt;
&gt; Simple rule for getting an approximation: the measurement around your
&gt; chest below your breasts is your bra size. Subtract this from the
&gt; measurement around your breasts at the fullest point to get your cup
&gt; size - go up a cup size for each inch (not counting double-letter
&gt; sizes).

That actually makes a lot of sense, and ties in with my notion that I
need to go down another band size. I'll have to try this and see if it
helps. Thank you for the alternative system; I'm sure it's much more
accurate than the standard one. Now we just have to help you take over
the world with it.

--
Cathy
<a href="http://www.bentbacktulips.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.bentbacktulips.co.uk/</a>

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#20: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 21:54:06 by Random C

Cathy Young wrote:
&gt; <a href="mailto:clanwilliam&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">clanwilliam&#64;gmail.com</a> wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Cathy Young wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Those online fitting guides are complete rubbish. [...]
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Simple rule for getting an approximation: the measurement around your
&gt;&gt; chest below your breasts is your bra size. Subtract this from the
&gt;&gt; measurement around your breasts at the fullest point to get your cup
&gt;&gt; size - go up a cup size for each inch (not counting double-letter
&gt;&gt; sizes).
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; That actually makes a lot of sense, and ties in with my notion that I
&gt; need to go down another band size. I'll have to try this and see if it
&gt; helps. Thank you for the alternative system; I'm sure it's much more
&gt; accurate than the standard one. Now we just have to help you take over
&gt; the world with it.
&gt;
It's only a *base* for the right size however. In inches by that system
I'm a C, however, as my breasts are quite wide (and doing their best to
crawl up my armpits) I actually need a D, or the wires are digging in
horribly.

--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#21: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 22:02:36 by Stacie Hanes

Random C wrote:

&gt; I'm a C, however, as my breasts are quite wide

So that's what &quot;Random C&quot; means.

&gt;(and doing
&gt; their best to crawl up my armpits)

And thank you for that visit from Mr. Mental Image Fairy.

Never let it be said, either, that I don't send pics where there's even a
hint of a polite request.
<a href="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/ICFA_1.jpg" target="_blank"> http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/ICFA_1.jpg</a>

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#22: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 22:10:58 by Random C

Anastasia wrote:

&gt; <a href="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/ICFA_1.jpg" target="_blank"> http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/ICFA_1.jpg</a>
&gt;
&gt;
Aha! Looking at that, you might well be suitable for The Thin One. :)

--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#23: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 22:14:03 by Cathy Young

Random C wrote:
&gt; Cathy Young wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Tell me there's *someone* out there for whom this produces the correct
&gt;&gt; size...
&gt;
&gt; ....you expect this? Are you that one fabled woman for whom the clothes
&gt; in shops *actually fit*?

Hmm. Generally speaking I have around a size 10 waist, size 14 hips and
bust.

In M&amp;S this translates as a size 12 for pretty much everything, except
their strappy tops/vests, which have to be size 16/18 to not be very tight.

In Next this is a size 14 top and bottom, except their size 14
trousers/skirts are a little big. (What can you do though?)

In Monsoon it's 12/14 on top. No idea about skirts and trousers, but I'd
guess at 14.

In New Look it's generally a 12, but sometimes 14 depending on the item.

In River Island I think it's 14 for tops, 10 for skirts. Not sure about
trousers.

In Topshop/Miss Selfridge/other teen shops it's 14/16 all the way.

In Oasis they make their clothes extra small, so I'd guess a 16 if I'm
lucky (haven't checked, but I bet they don't do above size 16).

Although I generally know my size in the clothes shops I infrequently
frequent, and am not bad at judging off the rail whether I need a
different size than I think, clothes don't fit me anyway. Being rather
short, the hems/sleeves tend to be 2-3&quot; too long all round :-)

--
Cathy
<a href="http://www.bentbacktulips.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.bentbacktulips.co.uk/</a>

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#24: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 22:18:54 by Random C

Cathy Young wrote:
clothes don't fit me anyway. Being rather
&gt; short, the hems/sleeves tend to be 2-3&quot; too long all round :-)
&gt;

My personal issue is that women are apparently expected to go out in
front as well as behind below the waist and I don't - it's all behind
me. This results in trousers which are nice and baggy in the front
pockets but also hugely baggy above my arse.
When not wearing a belt, the back of my trousers have been used by
oh-so-amusing coworkers as a place to keep magazines, electric
screwdrivers, small computers...
--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#25: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 22:19:37 by sphira9343

Cathy Young wrote:

&gt; [2] =A325-=A335 - and that's for something fairly basic. To get something
&gt; 'pretty', you generally need to add at least a fiver onto that, which I
&gt; can't justify for a piece of underwear! Man, it'll be nice in The Future
&gt; (TM) when all high-street fashion shops will accept DD+ cups as normal
&gt; and won't force us into over-priced specialist shops with no range...

I'm going to suggest La Senza here, as I've noticed they do a
reasonable selection of bras of that size or over. In fact, when I've
looking for something average-sized in their sales, they always seem to
be full of either small or large sizes.
They do sometimes seem to have a plethora of pink ones with the words
'Naughty Girl' [1] on, or other stuff like that, though. But you can
usually find something nice and not bright pink in amongst the rest.

[1] Urrgggghh. =20

CCA

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#26: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 22:21:12 by elfin

On 04/07/2006 20:46, Cathy Young wrote:
&gt; <a href="mailto:clanwilliam&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">clanwilliam&#64;gmail.com</a> wrote:
&gt;&gt; Cathy Young wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Those online fitting guides are complete rubbish. [...]
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Simple rule for getting an approximation: the measurement around
&gt;&gt; your chest below your breasts is your bra size. Subtract this
&gt;&gt; from the measurement around your breasts at the fullest point to
&gt;&gt; get your cup size - go up a cup size for each inch (not counting
&gt;&gt; double-letter sizes).
&gt;
&gt; That actually makes a lot of sense, and ties in with my notion that
&gt; I need to go down another band size. I'll have to try this and see
&gt; if it helps. Thank you for the alternative system; I'm sure it's
&gt; much more accurate than the standard one. Now we just have to help
&gt; you take over the world with it.

Many years ago I found out that the most reliable place to get
measured for a bra was in Marks and Spencer(at least in the UK).
Though most people then went elsewhere to actually purchase one.

elfin

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#27: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 22:23:00 by Stacie Hanes

Random C wrote:
&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; <a href="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/ICFA_1.jpg" target="_blank"> http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/ICFA_1.jpg</a>
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt; Aha! Looking at that, you might well be suitable for The Thin One.
&gt; :)

Then I am willing. I'd love to participate in the goings-on, but I'm just
too busy to put something together at my first con. I'd be delighted to be a
part of someone else's gig, though.

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#28: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 22:24:22 by Random C

Anastasia wrote:
&gt; Random C wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;<a href="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/ICFA_1.jpg" target="_blank"> http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/ICFA_1.jpg</a>
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Aha! Looking at that, you might well be suitable for The Thin One.
&gt;&gt;:)
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Then I am willing. I'd love to participate in the goings-on, but I'm just
&gt; too busy to put something together at my first con. I'd be delighted to be a
&gt; part of someone else's gig, though.
&gt;
&gt;
Taken off-group (unless your addess isn't valid, in which case, mine is,
please mail me)

--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#29: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 22:27:39 by Cathy Young

CCA wrote:
&gt; Cathy Young wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Man, it'll be nice in The Future
&gt;&gt; (TM) when all high-street fashion shops will accept DD+ cups as normal
&gt;&gt; and won't force us into over-priced specialist shops with no range...
&gt;
&gt; I'm going to suggest La Senza here, as I've noticed they do a
&gt; reasonable selection of bras of that size or over.

Looking at their website they seem to only do up to an E-cup. Do they go
higher than this in the store? Otherwise, they fall a little short of my
requirements :-)

--
Cathy
<a href="http://www.bentbacktulips.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.bentbacktulips.co.uk/</a>

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#30: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 22:34:05 by Dom

Anastasia wrote:

&lt;snippety&gt;

&gt; Never let it be said, either, that I don't send pics where there's even a
&gt; hint of a polite request.
&gt; <a href="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/ICFA_1.jpg" target="_blank"> http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/ICFA_1.jpg</a>

Looks at picture.

Did you say you were going to be in London before the Con?

(Not sure if he should stay well away or wander down)

--
Dom
afpSlave to CCA

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#31: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 22:42:22 by Random C

elfin wrote:
&gt; On 04/07/2006 20:46, Cathy Young wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:clanwilliam&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">clanwilliam&#64;gmail.com</a> wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Cathy Young wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Those online fitting guides are complete rubbish. [...]
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Simple rule for getting an approximation: the measurement around
&gt;&gt;&gt; your chest below your breasts is your bra size. Subtract this
&gt;&gt;&gt; from the measurement around your breasts at the fullest point to
&gt;&gt;&gt; get your cup size - go up a cup size for each inch (not counting
&gt;&gt;&gt; double-letter sizes).
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; That actually makes a lot of sense, and ties in with my notion that
&gt;&gt; I need to go down another band size. I'll have to try this and see
&gt;&gt; if it helps. Thank you for the alternative system; I'm sure it's
&gt;&gt; much more accurate than the standard one. Now we just have to help
&gt;&gt; you take over the world with it.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Many years ago I found out that the most reliable place to get measured
&gt; for a bra was in Marks and Spencer(at least in the UK). Though most
&gt; people then went elsewhere to actually purchase one.
&gt;
&gt; elfin
It was Marks &amp; Sparks that told me I was a 34B. So I suspect their
accuracy varies wildly from branch to branch.

--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#32: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 22:43:45 by Stacie Hanes

Dom wrote:
&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &lt;snippety&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Never let it be said, either, that I don't send pics where there's
&gt;&gt; even a hint of a polite request.
&gt;&gt; <a href="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/ICFA_1.jpg" target="_blank"> http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/ICFA_1.jpg</a>
&gt;
&gt; Looks at picture.

That's me at a public professional event, BTW. A similar picture appears in
the May 2006 issue of Locus, with two of the editors of GoL.

&gt; Did you say you were going to be in London before the Con?

Why, yes, I am. There's talk of a meet, but I haven't carried it forward due
to an acute attack of RL, plus group doings.

&gt; (Not sure if he should stay well away or wander down)

I get that a lot. ;-)

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#33: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 22:46:56 by Cathy Young

elfin wrote:

&gt; Many years ago I found out that the most reliable place to get
&gt; measured for a bra was in Marks and Spencer(at least in the UK).
&gt; Though most people then went elsewhere to actually purchase one.

I suspect it depends on what end of the size spectrum you are, judging
by the reports I've heard elsewhere. Personally the one measurement I
got was good, but all the bras I've bought there in recent years have
been uncomfortable enough that I don't want to bother trying them again.

--
Cathy
<a href="http://www.bentbacktulips.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.bentbacktulips.co.uk/</a>

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#34: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 22:47:58 by MEG

&quot;elfin&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:elfin&#64;blueyonder.co.uk" target="_blank">elfin&#64;blueyonder.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:e8ej4p$udv$<a href="mailto:1&#64;mud.stack.nl..." target="_blank">1&#64;mud.stack.nl...</a>
&gt; Many years ago I found out that the most reliable place to get measured
&gt; for a bra was in Marks and Spencer(at least in the UK). Though most people
&gt; then went elsewhere to actually purchase one.

I heartily recommend La Senza in Putney.

Not for you, obviously.
- MEG

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#35: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 22:54:07 by clanwilliam

Random C wrote:
&gt; elfin wrote:
&gt; &gt; Many years ago I found out that the most reliable place to get measured
&gt; &gt; for a bra was in Marks and Spencer(at least in the UK). Though most
&gt; &gt; people then went elsewhere to actually purchase one.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; elfin
&gt; It was Marks &amp; Sparks that told me I was a 34B. So I suspect their
&gt; accuracy varies wildly from branch to branch.

Marble Arch, perchance? They told me years ago that I was a 38 C (and
insisted on measuring while I was wearing a bra, which was just
pointless). So I went across the street to Selfridges and was told 34
and a letter that wasn't too far off my first initial. (I've managed to
lose a bit off since then).

Selfridges were very dismissive of M&amp;S's alleged fitting service, but
no more so than I was.

I've also tried Bravissimo, who are good, but Selfridge's are still
tops (as you yourself can confirm!). Must try Rigby &amp; Peller some time,
but I might never buy one of their bras. The single best bra I ever
tried on was an R&amp;P, but I didn't fancy paying =A350+ for something that
just made me acutely aware of what the Queen looked like in her
underwear. Which was not a mental image I wanted.

Jenny

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#36: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 22:54:47 by Stacie Hanes

Random C wrote:

&lt;con costumes&gt;

&gt; Taken off-group (unless your addess isn't valid, in which case,
&gt; mine is, please mail me)

Both my Reply-to and From are valid, but I haven't got anything from you and
my e-mail to you from esmeraldusatearthlinkdotcom was spat back. Will try
again in a bit.

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#37: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 22:59:41 by clanwilliam

Cathy Young wrote:
&gt; CCA wrote:
&gt; &gt; Cathy Young wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Man, it'll be nice in The Future
&gt; &gt;&gt; (TM) when all high-street fashion shops will accept DD+ cups as normal
&gt; &gt;&gt; and won't force us into over-priced specialist shops with no range...
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; I'm going to suggest La Senza here, as I've noticed they do a
&gt; &gt; reasonable selection of bras of that size or over.
&gt;
&gt; Looking at their website they seem to only do up to an E-cup. Do they go
&gt; higher than this in the store? Otherwise, they fall a little short of my
&gt; requirements :-)


Go to Selfridges. There's one in Brum. They are the best I've ever
encountered (and Bravissimo are good, but not as good). They basically
stick you in a dressing room, measure you and come back with a mountain
of bras which they make you try on until they find a range that fits
you. They won't let you buy a bra that doesn't fit properly but they
won't look at you funny if you say that you don't like a particular one
because it's not pretty enough or whatever.

I love them to bits.

Jenny

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#38: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 23:02:36 by Random C

Jenny Delaney wrote:
&gt; Random C wrote:
&gt;

&gt;&gt;It was Marks &amp; Sparks that told me I was a 34B. So I suspect their
&gt;&gt;accuracy varies wildly from branch to branch.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Marble Arch, perchance?

Sutton, actually, I wasn't working at Inspired then. And Croydon Allders
told me the same thing.
--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#39: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 23:12:10 by esmi

on 04/07/2006 21:14 Cathy Young said the following:

&gt; Hmm. Generally speaking I have around a size 10 waist, size 14 hips and
&gt; bust.
&gt;
&gt; In M&amp;S this translates as

&lt;snip&gt;

And men wonder why it takes women ages to buy clothes.

--
esmi

A Brief Guide to alt.fan.pratchett:
<a href="http://www.blackwidows.co.uk/afp-guide/" target="_blank">http://www.blackwidows.co.uk/afp-guide/</a>

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#40: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 23:18:06 by esmi

on 04/07/2006 21:46 Cathy Young said the following:
&gt; elfin wrote:

&gt;&gt; Many years ago I found out that the most reliable place to get
&gt;&gt; measured for a bra was in Marks and Spencer(at least in the UK).
&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; I suspect it depends on what end of the size spectrum you are, judging
&gt; by the reports I've heard elsewhere.

I'd guess 38-40CompletelyFlat. I'm still trying to work out why he was
trying to get measured for a bra! :-0

&gt; Personally the one measurement I
&gt; got was good, but all the bras I've bought there in recent years have
&gt; been uncomfortable enough that I don't want to bother trying them again.

I think I went to M&amp;S to get measured for maternity bras. They were
completely useless and I ended up just choosing for myself.

--
esmi

A Brief Guide to alt.fan.pratchett:
<a href="http://www.blackwidows.co.uk/afp-guide/" target="_blank">http://www.blackwidows.co.uk/afp-guide/</a>

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#41: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-04 23:32:37 by Cathy Young

Jenny Delaney wrote:

&gt; Go to Selfridges. There's one in Brum. They are the best I've ever
&gt; encountered (and Bravissimo are good, but not as good). They basically
&gt; stick you in a dressing room, measure you and come back with a mountain
&gt; of bras which they make you try on until they find a range that fits
&gt; you. They won't let you buy a bra that doesn't fit properly but they
&gt; won't look at you funny if you say that you don't like a particular one
&gt; because it's not pretty enough or whatever.
&gt;
&gt; I love them to bits.

Gosh. With a recommendation like that I'll have to try them, thanks! I
sense a shopping trip to Birmingham in the near future.

--
Cathy
<a href="http://www.bentbacktulips.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.bentbacktulips.co.uk/</a>

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#42: Re: [I] Potential London Meets

Posted on 2006-07-04 23:37:38 by Dom

Anastasia wrote:
&gt; Dom wrote:
&gt;&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Never let it be said, either, that I don't send pics where there's
&gt;&gt;&gt; even a hint of a polite request.
&gt;&gt; Looks at picture.
&gt;
&gt; That's me at a public professional event, BTW. A similar picture appears in
&gt; the May 2006 issue of Locus, with two of the editors of GoL.

My second thought, on seeing that picture, was: I wonder what the wine is?

&gt;&gt; Did you say you were going to be in London before the Con?
&gt;
&gt; Why, yes, I am. There's talk of a meet, but I haven't carried it forward due
&gt; to an acute attack of RL, plus group doings.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; (Not sure if he should stay well away or wander down)
&gt;
&gt; I get that a lot. ;-)

*g*

Well, if you are going to be in town I can usually manage to get there.

I'm not going to be able to get to the Con, but aim to meet as
many [#]afpers as possible while they in the area.

--
Dom
afpSlave to CCA

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#43: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 00:00:16 by Julia Jones

In article &lt;2%yqg.96166$<a href="mailto:wl.87811&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk" target="_blank">wl.87811&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk</a>&gt;, Random C
&lt;<a href="mailto:random&#64;panatropic.net" target="_blank">random&#64;panatropic.net</a>&gt; writes
&gt;Random C wrote:
&gt;&gt; Cathy Young wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; (Ah, the perennial AFP bra thread.)
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; The online measurement guides tell me I'm a 36C. Selfridges tell me
&gt;&gt;I'm a 30 or 32D. Selfridges are right. For the first time *ever* my
&gt;&gt;bras don't hurt.
&gt;Oh, I just looked at another one someone commented about on LJ. *that*
&gt;tells me I'm a 38A.

As I mentioned on LJ, possibly in that self-same thread, I had a very
good experience with an M&amp;S fitter, but she was of the &quot;measure it as a
starting point&quot; school. Measured, considered what shape I was, and then
sallied forth and returned with several different sizes in styles she
thought had a good chance of being the same shape as me. And then
checked as I tried each one on to see whether it fitted correctly, and
if it didn't, how it didn't, and went out and got a few more based on
the results of the initial experiment.

But I gather they vary in quality, and I got lucky.
--
Julia Jones
Spindrift -- EPPIE 2006 finalist, 5 stars from JERR
Richard finds the truth in legend, when he finds a silkie bereft of
his skin and in need of a home... <a href="http://www.loose-id.net/detail.aspx?ID=138" target="_blank">http://www.loose-id.net/detail.aspx?ID=138</a>

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#44: Re: [I] Potential London Meets

Posted on 2006-07-05 00:13:08 by aqusenet

Dom &lt;<a href="mailto:domafp&#64;blueyonder.co.uk" target="_blank">domafp&#64;blueyonder.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt; &gt; Dom wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Never let it be said, either, that I don't send pics where there's
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; even a hint of a polite request.
&gt; &gt;&gt; Looks at picture.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; That's me at a public professional event, BTW. A similar picture appears in
&gt; &gt; the May 2006 issue of Locus, with two of the editors of GoL.
&gt;
&gt; My second thought, on seeing that picture, was: I wonder what the wine is?
&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Did you say you were going to be in London before the Con?
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Why, yes, I am. There's talk of a meet, but I haven't carried it forward due
&gt; &gt; to an acute attack of RL, plus group doings.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; (Not sure if he should stay well away or wander down)
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; I get that a lot. ;-)
&gt;
&gt; *g*
&gt;
&gt; Well, if you are going to be in town I can usually manage to get there.
&gt;
&gt; I'm not going to be able to get to the Con, but aim to meet as
&gt; many [#]afpers as possible while they in the area.

So if we were to say, for example, the Saturday before the Con, at, say,
The Green Man in London, then things might start heading in the right
direction...

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#45: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 00:13:09 by aqusenet

esmi &lt;<a href="mailto:esmi&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">esmi&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; on 04/07/2006 21:14 Cathy Young said the following:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Hmm. Generally speaking I have around a size 10 waist, size 14 hips and
&gt; &gt; bust.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; In M&amp;S this translates as
&gt;
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;
&gt; And men wonder why it takes women ages to buy clothes.

Only until we learn not to ask.

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#46: Re: [I] Potential London Meets

Posted on 2006-07-05 00:41:01 by Stacie Hanes

Aquarion wrote:

&lt;staciemeet&gt;

&gt; So if we were to say, for example, the Saturday before the Con, at,
&gt; say, The Green Man in London, then things might start heading in
&gt; the right direction...

Ohhhhh, so THAT is how it happens.

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#47: [F] Potential London Meets

Posted on 2006-07-05 01:00:32 by Karen

In article &lt;1hhz4eo.9ex2ayrmjbd5N%<a href="mailto:aqusenet&#64;mailinator.com" target="_blank">aqusenet&#64;mailinator.com</a>&gt;, Aquarion
&lt;<a href="mailto:aqusenet&#64;mailinator.com" target="_blank">aqusenet&#64;mailinator.com</a>&gt; writes
&gt;Dom &lt;<a href="mailto:domafp&#64;blueyonder.co.uk" target="_blank">domafp&#64;blueyonder.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;

&gt;&gt; Well, if you are going to be in town I can usually manage to get there.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I'm not going to be able to get to the Con, but aim to meet as
&gt;&gt; many [#]afpers as possible while they in the area.
&gt;
&gt;So if we were to say, for example, the Saturday before the Con, at, say,
&gt;The Green Man in London, then things might start heading in the right
&gt;direction...


How about the Wednesday evening as a pre-Con /warm up meet? A lot of
visiting afpers arrive via London the day or evening before and could
join in before hitting the massed horde in Hinckley. It should be easy
to get the basement for mid week at that time of year. For London
working people it can be easier than a weekend (since most don't
actually live centrally). Crash space has generally been pretty
generously available in London via the meets list - the mix of people
going/not going should make help that.

Its a while since I organised anything there myself - Barry R or the
Davisons might well have a better view on the current management, it has
changed in the last year but it might be nice to go back.

--
Karen/hypatia <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>
New? Check <a href="http://www.lspace.org" target="_blank">http://www.lspace.org</a>
Confused? Mail the Clue Fairies at <a href="mailto:afp-help&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">afp-help&#64;lspace.org</a>
Discworld Convention 2006, August 18-21, <a href="http://www.dwcon.org" target="_blank">http://www.dwcon.org</a>

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#48: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 01:03:31 by Ailbhe

Cathy Young &lt;<a href="mailto:cathy&#64;bentbacktulips.co.uk" target="_blank">cathy&#64;bentbacktulips.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote
(on Tue, 04 Jul 2006 21:14:03 +0100):

&gt; Hmm. Generally speaking I have around a size 10 waist, size 14 hips and
&gt; bust.
&gt;
&gt; In M&amp;S this translates as a size 12 for pretty much everything, except
&gt; their strappy tops/vests, which have to be size 16/18 to not be very tight.
&gt;
&gt; In Next this is a size 14 top and bottom, except their size 14
&gt; trousers/skirts are a little big. (What can you do though?)
&gt;
&gt; In Monsoon it's 12/14 on top. No idea about skirts and trousers, but I'd
&gt; guess at 14.
&gt;
&gt; In New Look it's generally a 12, but sometimes 14 depending on the item.
&gt;
&gt; In River Island I think it's 14 for tops, 10 for skirts. Not sure about
&gt; trousers.
&gt;
&gt; In Topshop/Miss Selfridge/other teen shops it's 14/16 all the way.
&gt;
&gt; In Oasis they make their clothes extra small, so I'd guess a 16 if I'm
&gt; lucky (haven't checked, but I bet they don't do above size 16).

I tried ot buy maternity clothes and was told &quot;buy your pre-pregnancy size.&quot;

&quot;In which SHOP?&quot; I cried.

No-one admitted there was more than one version of a size 8.

A.

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#49: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 01:08:48 by Ailbhe

elfin &lt;<a href="mailto:elfin&#64;blueyonder.co.uk" target="_blank">elfin&#64;blueyonder.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote
(on Tue, 04 Jul 2006 21:21:12 +0100):
&gt; On 04/07/2006 20:46, Cathy Young wrote:
&gt; &gt; <a href="mailto:clanwilliam&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">clanwilliam&#64;gmail.com</a> wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt; Cathy Young wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Those online fitting guides are complete rubbish. [...]
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Simple rule for getting an approximation: the measurement around
&gt; &gt;&gt; your chest below your breasts is your bra size. Subtract this
&gt; &gt;&gt; from the measurement around your breasts at the fullest point to
&gt; &gt;&gt; get your cup size - go up a cup size for each inch (not counting
&gt; &gt;&gt; double-letter sizes).
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; That actually makes a lot of sense, and ties in with my notion that
&gt; &gt; I need to go down another band size. I'll have to try this and see
&gt; &gt; if it helps. Thank you for the alternative system; I'm sure it's
&gt; &gt; much more accurate than the standard one. Now we just have to help
&gt; &gt; you take over the world with it.
&gt;
&gt; Many years ago I found out that the most reliable place to get
&gt; measured for a bra was in Marks and Spencer(at least in the UK).
&gt; Though most people then went elsewhere to actually purchase one.

Heh, twice they measured me *in my ill-fitting bra* and tried to persuade
me that I was the size they said I was which obviously didn't fit. Two
different bra fitters.

Mothercare also measured me in the ill-fitting bra, as did John Lewis, but
at least they believed me when I said the saggy one they gave me didn't fit.
Contessa measured me braless, which was better, but couldn't cope with me
being pregnant and nursing.

I really will have to get Jen to take me to Selfridges one day.

A.

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#50: Re: [F] Potential London Meets

Posted on 2006-07-05 01:19:11 by Stacie Hanes

Karen wrote:
&gt; In article &lt;1hhz4eo.9ex2ayrmjbd5N%<a href="mailto:aqusenet&#64;mailinator.com" target="_blank">aqusenet&#64;mailinator.com</a>&gt;, Aquarion
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:aqusenet&#64;mailinator.com" target="_blank">aqusenet&#64;mailinator.com</a>&gt; writes
&gt;&gt; Dom &lt;<a href="mailto:domafp&#64;blueyonder.co.uk" target="_blank">domafp&#64;blueyonder.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Well, if you are going to be in town I can usually manage to get
&gt;&gt;&gt; there. I'm not going to be able to get to the Con, but aim to meet as
&gt;&gt;&gt; many [#]afpers as possible while they in the area.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; So if we were to say, for example, the Saturday before the Con,
&gt;&gt; at, say, The Green Man in London, then things might start heading
&gt;&gt; in the right direction...
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; How about the Wednesday evening as a pre-Con /warm up meet? A lot of
&gt; visiting afpers arrive via London the day or evening before and
&gt; could join in before hitting the massed horde in Hinckley. It
&gt; should be easy to get the basement for mid week at that time of
&gt; year.

That's a possibility: I have days unaccounted for between Alec's place and
the COn. Speaking of, I need to find crashy space for a night or two, or
find a hotel. I would rather meet actual people, though, than sit in a hotel
by myself.

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#51: Re: [F] Potential London Meets

Posted on 2006-07-05 07:00:32 by Eric Jarvis

Anastasia <a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a> wrote in
&lt;PHCqg.3202$<a href="mailto:PE1.1085&#64;newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">PE1.1085&#64;newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;:
&gt;
&gt; That's a possibility: I have days unaccounted for between Alec's place and
&gt; the COn. Speaking of, I need to find crashy space for a night or two, or
&gt; find a hotel. I would rather meet actual people, though, than sit in a hotel
&gt; by myself.
&gt;

I can't offer crash space since I don't know for certain where I will be
living by then, or indeed by next week. However I'll at least be in
striking distance of London and the offer of sorting out a (cheap) theatre
meet still stands. Unfortunately the show at the Finborough with Jack
Klaff closes on the 12th, otherwise it would have been ideal.

There's also a child friendly pub suitable for a small/middling meet just
by the Imperial War Museum, if that appeals.

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
&quot;live fast, die only if strictly necessary&quot;

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#52: Re: [F] Potential London Meets

Posted on 2006-07-05 07:09:53 by Stacie Hanes

Eric Jarvis wrote:
&gt; Anastasia <a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a> wrote in
&gt; &lt;PHCqg.3202$<a href="mailto:PE1.1085&#64;newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">PE1.1085&#64;newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; That's a possibility: I have days unaccounted for between Alec's
&gt;&gt; place and the COn. Speaking of, I need to find crashy space for a
&gt;&gt; night or two, or find a hotel. I would rather meet actual people,
&gt;&gt; though, than sit in a hotel by myself.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I can't offer crash space since I don't know for certain where I
&gt; will be living by then, or indeed by next week.

I think that's sorted now. I might, depending on who wants Rent-A-Stacie,
spend a night or two elsewhere, but Alec's offer of lodgings has been
extended so that I am not actually without a roof at any particular time.

&gt;However I'll at
&gt; least be in striking distance of London and the offer of sorting
&gt; out a (cheap) theatre meet still stands. Unfortunately the show at
&gt; the Finborough with Jack Klaff closes on the 12th, otherwise it
&gt; would have been ideal.

I wouldn't be at my best, having arrived just the morning of.

&gt; There's also a child friendly pub suitable for a small/middling
&gt; meet just by the Imperial War Museum, if that appeals.

I leave the placing to you, since I know nothink.

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#53: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 07:24:14 by eero.suoranta

esmi wrote:

&gt; on 04/07/2006 21:14 Cathy Young said the following:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Hmm. Generally speaking I have around a size 10 waist, size 14 hips and
&gt; &gt; bust.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; In M&amp;S this translates as
&gt;
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;
&gt; And men wonder why it takes women ages to buy clothes.

Because of the conspirary.
The corporate masters are forcing women to spend all their time buying
clothes, so they do not interfere with the work of the Illuminati.
Didn't you know it?

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#54: Re: [F] Potential London Meets

Posted on 2006-07-05 08:42:43 by aqusenet

Karen &lt;<a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; In article &lt;1hhz4eo.9ex2ayrmjbd5N%<a href="mailto:aqusenet&#64;mailinator.com" target="_blank">aqusenet&#64;mailinator.com</a>&gt;, Aquarion
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:aqusenet&#64;mailinator.com" target="_blank">aqusenet&#64;mailinator.com</a>&gt; writes
&gt; &gt;Dom &lt;<a href="mailto:domafp&#64;blueyonder.co.uk" target="_blank">domafp&#64;blueyonder.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Well, if you are going to be in town I can usually manage to get there.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; I'm not going to be able to get to the Con, but aim to meet as
&gt; &gt;&gt; many [#]afpers as possible while they in the area.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;So if we were to say, for example, the Saturday before the Con, at, say,
&gt; &gt;The Green Man in London, then things might start heading in the right
&gt; &gt;direction...
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; How about the Wednesday evening as a pre-Con /warm up meet? A lot of
&gt; visiting afpers arrive via London the day or evening before and could
&gt; join in before hitting the massed horde in Hinckley. It should be easy
&gt; to get the basement for mid week at that time of year. For London
&gt; working people it can be easier than a weekend (since most don't
&gt; actually live centrally). Crash space has generally been pretty
&gt; generously available in London via the meets list - the mix of people
&gt; going/not going should make help that.
&gt;
&gt; Its a while since I organised anything there myself - Barry R or the
&gt; Davisons might well have a better view on the current management, it has
&gt; changed in the last year but it might be nice to go back.

It is supposed to be better again now.

For purely selfish reasons (ie, me not being able to make a Wednesday
meet in London easily or possibly at all) I'd have to say I prefer the
Weekend idea, but whatever the consensus is could happen.

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#55: Re: [I] Potential London Meets

Posted on 2006-07-05 08:42:44 by aqusenet

Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; Aquarion wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &lt;staciemeet&gt;
&gt;
&gt; &gt; So if we were to say, for example, the Saturday before the Con, at,
&gt; &gt; say, The Green Man in London, then things might start heading in
&gt; &gt; the right direction...
&gt;
&gt; Ohhhhh, so THAT is how it happens.

Organising a meet consists of:

a) Suggesting one or more of the following:
I) A date
II) A time
III) A place
IV) A thing to do. (Optional)

b) listening to all advice on the ones you did and did not specify
c) Collating, deciding, risking disapppointing the people who can't make
the date/time/place you finally decide.
d) Posting an announce.

Organised people might check the pub is not busy/crap/demolished, but I
prefer a more holistic approach.

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#56: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 10:39:19 by mcv

Random C &lt;<a href="mailto:random&#64;panatropic.net" target="_blank">random&#64;panatropic.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Random C wrote:
&gt;&gt; Cathy Young wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; (Ah, the perennial AFP bra thread.)
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; The online measurement guides tell me I'm a 36C. Selfridges tell me I'm
&gt;&gt; a 30 or 32D. Selfridges are right. For the first time *ever* my bras
&gt;&gt; don't hurt.
&gt; Oh, I just looked at another one someone commented about on LJ. *that*
&gt; tells me I'm a 38A.

I don't know much about bra sizes (why am I even reading this?), so I
don't see how there can possibly be any confusion between 38A and 30D.
Aren't they basically exact opposites?


mcv.

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#57: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 10:50:20 by Brenda

Random C wrote:
[snip]

&gt; 14. In Miss Selfridge, last I tried a size 16 was far too small.
&gt; On pure measurements, I am within a couple of centimetres of the
&gt; apparent fashion-industry ideal size 12 that sample garments are made
&gt; to (or as my drafting tutor put it 'goodness! You're almost a Gloria!
&gt; Except a different *shape*...')

A &quot;Gloria&quot; .......??

--
Ed.

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#58: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 10:52:19 by Paul Harman

&quot;Cathy Young&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:cathy&#64;bentbacktulips.co.uk" target="_blank">cathy&#64;bentbacktulips.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:e8e67n$7qh$<a href="mailto:1&#64;wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk..." target="_blank">1&#64;wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk...</a>
&gt; But then, is the &quot;official&quot; fitting guide *so* far out?


Yes yes yes yes. My wife is in a similar situation to you. Being a breast
kind of a guy I feel blessed with my 30LL wife (okay, she has just had our
second baby, so that's big even for her!)

Oh how we laugh when the &quot;professional&quot; bra fitters declare she's a 40DD or
something absurd like that. I do have to wonder if they are trained to try
and sell the kind of bras that the shop has in stock, rather than what
correctly fits.

As you say Bravissimmo has been a godsend, but unfortuantely my wife seems
to be of a size that strains even their talents, and we tend to be limited
to maternity bras and other outrageous ferats of metalwork &amp; construction.
Delicate &amp; lacy they aren't :*(

Paul

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#59: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 10:57:09 by Paul Harman

&quot;MEG&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:nospam_MEG_news&#64;djelibeybi.idps.co.uk" target="_blank">nospam_MEG_news&#64;djelibeybi.idps.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:88KdnR13zaC7SDfZnZ2dnUVZ8qidnZ2d&#64;bt.com..." target="_blank">88KdnR13zaC7SDfZnZ2dnUVZ8qidnZ2d&#64;bt.com...</a>
&gt; I heartily recommend La Senza in Putney.


If you can fit into the tiny things they sell...

Paul

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#60: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 11:00:08 by Paul Harman

&quot;Random C&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:random&#64;panatropic.net" target="_blank">random&#64;panatropic.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:opzqg.96181$<a href="mailto:wl.61463&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk..." target="_blank">wl.61463&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...</a>
&gt; ...you expect this? Are you that one fabled woman for whom the clothes in
&gt; shops *actually fit*? (In marks and spencers I am somewhere between a 6
&gt; and a 14. From what I can work out, my waist is a 6 and my arse is a 14.
&gt; In Miss Selfridge, last I tried a size 16 was far too small.
&gt; On pure measurements, I am within a couple of centimetres of the apparent
&gt; fashion-industry ideal size 12 that sample garments are made to (or as my
&gt; drafting tutor put it 'goodness! You're almost a Gloria! Except a
&gt; different *shape*...')


Mmmm. I hear you. My wife and I long ago came to the conclusion that women's
clothes are made by men for men to wear, because they just don't seem to
take into account the fact that women have a nice curvy shape as opposed to
being straight up-and-down.

Paul

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#61: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 11:00:59 by Peter Ellis

Paul Harman wrote:
&gt;
&gt; Yes yes yes yes. My wife is in a similar situation to you. Being a
&gt; breast kind of a guy I feel blessed with my 30LL wife (okay, she has
&gt; just had our second baby, so that's big even for her!)

Here's me wondering if it stands for Linda Lovelace....

Peter

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#62: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 11:07:08 by Paul Harman

&quot;Peter Ellis&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:pjie2&#64;cam.ac.uk" target="_blank">pjie2&#64;cam.ac.uk</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:4h1debF1pb7ujU1&#64;individual.net..." target="_blank">4h1debF1pb7ujU1&#64;individual.net...</a>
&gt; Paul Harman wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Yes yes yes yes. My wife is in a similar situation to you. Being a
&gt;&gt; breast kind of a guy I feel blessed with my 30LL wife (okay, she has
&gt;&gt; just had our second baby, so that's big even for her!)
&gt;
&gt; Here's me wondering if it stands for Linda Lovelace....


&lt;grinz&gt;

Anything bigger than 34DD conjures up images of Lola Ferrari. Actually, what
it really means is that unlike those ugly silicone monstrosities, the breast
doesn't start at the front of the chest and jut straight out, but starts on
the side.

Paul

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#63: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 11:33:41 by Graycat

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 20:28:21 +0100, Cathy Young
&lt;<a href="mailto:cathy&#64;bentbacktulips.co.uk" target="_blank">cathy&#64;bentbacktulips.co.uk</a>&gt; jotted down:

&gt;Diane L wrote:
&gt;&gt; Cathy Young wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; In conclusion then, I guess I have pretty much the right size (I
&gt;&gt;&gt; hope). But then, is the &quot;official&quot; fitting guide *so* far out?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Yes.
&gt;
&gt;I'm glad everyone keeps saying this; I thought I was going loopy. It's a
&gt;bit weird when there's this One Accepted Way of measuring for a bra, and
&gt;apparently a significant percentage of women for whom it doesn't work at
&gt;all. Makes you wonder who came up with the system in the first place,
&gt;and *why*...

Hey, it doesn't work for me either, and I don't need
specialist shops, having fairly normal sized breasts. So I
wouldn't be surprised if it _only_ works for say, the 75 Bs
(swedish sizing) which seems to be the ideal for being able
to find any kind of bra you like.

--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
The Oswalds DW casting award - Vote Now!
<a href="http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html</a>

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#64: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 11:36:29 by Graycat

On 05 Jul 2006 08:39:19 GMT, mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; jotted
down:

&gt;Random C &lt;<a href="mailto:random&#64;panatropic.net" target="_blank">random&#64;panatropic.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; Random C wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Cathy Young wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (Ah, the perennial AFP bra thread.)
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; The online measurement guides tell me I'm a 36C. Selfridges tell me I'm
&gt;&gt;&gt; a 30 or 32D. Selfridges are right. For the first time *ever* my bras
&gt;&gt;&gt; don't hurt.
&gt;&gt; Oh, I just looked at another one someone commented about on LJ. *that*
&gt;&gt; tells me I'm a 38A.
&gt;
&gt;I don't know much about bra sizes (why am I even reading this?), so I
&gt;don't see how there can possibly be any confusion between 38A and 30D.
&gt;Aren't they basically exact opposites?

The size of the cup is different within the cup size
depending on the circumference. So a 38A and a 30D could
well have thhe same size cup, but the woman needing the 30 D
would have to wind the strap twice around her body with the
38A.

--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
The Oswalds DW casting award - Vote Now!
<a href="http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html</a>

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#65: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 11:40:51 by Graycat

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 04:45:55 +1000, SteveD &lt;<a href="mailto:usenet&#64;vo.id.au" target="_blank">usenet&#64;vo.id.au</a>&gt;
jotted down:

&gt;On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 17:50:01 +0100, Cathy Young
&gt;&lt;<a href="mailto:cathy&#64;bentbacktulips.co.uk" target="_blank">cathy&#64;bentbacktulips.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;But then, is the &quot;official&quot; fitting guide *so* far out? Doesn't this
&gt;&gt;mean that it's completely useless as far as finding your size goes?
&gt;
&gt;Yes, and only *mostly* useless.
&gt;
&gt;I think the problem is that two measurements by themselves do not contain
&gt;enough information to allow a perfect fit to be selected. They're more
&gt;like... guidelines.
&gt;
&gt;This is what bra-shop assistants are for, if they know their trade. They
&gt;can take the figures, and *also* get an idea of the actual shape of the
&gt;customer, with a view towards pointing them in the direction of a bra
&gt;mfr/model combination that best suits them.
&gt;
&gt;In order to clear up this confusion, a new bra-measuring system will need
&gt;to be developed that uses more than just those two measurements. Either
&gt;that, or self-adjusting bras will need to be invented.

The thing is though, it should be possible to use a tape
measure to measure what length strap you need, I mean, that
should be very simple.

The trouble is trying to use one calculation to figure out
_both_ strap and cup size.

--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
The Oswalds DW casting award - Vote Now!
<a href="http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html</a>

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#66: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 11:52:31 by jester

On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 10:00:08 +0100, Paul Harman
&lt;<a href="mailto:chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net" target="_blank">chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;Mmmm. I hear you. My wife and I long ago came to the conclusion that women's
&gt;clothes are made by men for men to wear,

I can assure this is not the case. For a start the shoulders would be
wider and the hips narrower.

--
Andy Brown
Happiness, n.:
An agreeable sensation arising from contemplating the misery of
another.
-- Ambrose Bierce, &quot;The Devil's Dictionary&quot;

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#67: Re: [I] Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 12:00:13 by Orjan Westin

Ed Weatherup wrote:
&gt; Random C wrote:
&gt; [snip]
&gt;
&gt;&gt; 14. In Miss Selfridge, last I tried a size 16 was far too small.
&gt;&gt; On pure measurements, I am within a couple of centimetres of the
&gt;&gt; apparent fashion-industry ideal size 12 that sample garments are made
&gt;&gt; to (or as my drafting tutor put it 'goodness! You're almost a Gloria!
&gt;&gt; Except a different *shape*...')
&gt;
&gt; A &quot;Gloria&quot; .......??

As in Gaynor. Whatever type of clothes you hand her, her innate style
will survive.

Orjan
--
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
Fiction, Thoughts and Software
<a href="http://www.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://www.cunobaros.com/</a>

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#68: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 12:11:25 by Graycat

On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 10:00:08 +0100, &quot;Paul Harman&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net" target="_blank">chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net</a>&gt; jotted down:

&gt;&quot;Random C&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:random&#64;panatropic.net" target="_blank">random&#64;panatropic.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt;news:opzqg.96181$<a href="mailto:wl.61463&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk..." target="_blank">wl.61463&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...</a>
&gt;&gt; ...you expect this? Are you that one fabled woman for whom the clothes in
&gt;&gt; shops *actually fit*? (In marks and spencers I am somewhere between a 6
&gt;&gt; and a 14. From what I can work out, my waist is a 6 and my arse is a 14.
&gt;&gt; In Miss Selfridge, last I tried a size 16 was far too small.
&gt;&gt; On pure measurements, I am within a couple of centimetres of the apparent
&gt;&gt; fashion-industry ideal size 12 that sample garments are made to (or as my
&gt;&gt; drafting tutor put it 'goodness! You're almost a Gloria! Except a
&gt;&gt; different *shape*...')
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;Mmmm. I hear you. My wife and I long ago came to the conclusion that women's
&gt;clothes are made by men for men to wear, because they just don't seem to
&gt;take into account the fact that women have a nice curvy shape as opposed to
&gt;being straight up-and-down.

I think they're made for models - ie women who look like
young men in their mid teens only skinnier...

My dad has a theory that this is because fashion designers
tend to be gay men, but probably it's just because women
shaped like clothes racks are much easier to fit.

Anyhow, it would be nice with clothes that took those of us
who are towars the more hour-glassy end of the shape
spectrum into account - allowing for a waist that is quite a
bit narrower than what's above and below it.

--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
The Oswalds DW casting award - Vote Now!
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#69: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 12:59:34 by CeltiKaos

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 17:50:01 +0100, Cathy Young wrote:

&gt; (Ah, the perennial AFP bra thread.)

On seeing this thread I was sooo tempted to make my usual offer of:

I'm in a wheelchair, so if your back gets sore you can always rest them on
my head

But I thought better of it[1]

[1] Oops ;)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#70: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 13:00:42 by CeltiKaos

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 20:35:30 +0100, Lister wrote:

&gt; *snigger*

--F+T
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#71: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 13:04:32 by CeltiKaos

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 20:02:36 +0000, Anastasia wrote:

&gt; Never let it be said, either, that I don't send pics where there's even a
&gt; hint of a polite request.
&gt; <a href="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/ICFA_1.jpg" target="_blank"> http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/ICFA_1.jpg</a>

The words 'cold' 'shower' and 'omigod' spring to mind :)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#72: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 13:08:18 by CeltiKaos

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 13:54:07 -0700, Jenny Delaney wrote:

&gt; So I went across the street to Selfridges and was told 34 and
&gt; a letter that wasn't too far off my first initial.

Rrrr Jim lad.. there be bras... oops sorry wrong thread :)[1]

[1] Maybe even wrong group - I get so confused ;)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#73: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 13:09:28 by CeltiKaos

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 09:57:09 +0100, Paul Harman wrote:

&gt; If you can fit into the tiny things they sell...
&gt;
&gt; Paul

I'm marginally concerne... no never mind... :)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#74: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 13:14:56 by CeltiKaos

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 21:14:03 +0100, Cathy Young wrote:

&gt; Hmm. Generally speaking I have around a size 10 waist, size 14 hips and
&gt; bust.

My Mum's theory on this is fashion. She's in her 60s so obviously doesn't
*like* the skin-tight show-off-the-stomach fashions for younger ladies.
So she ends up buying a size or two larger because the cut of the clothes
at her proper size doesn't cover enough. Of course for different parts of
the body this varies, so I suppose the size would too.
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#75: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 13:17:38 by CeltiKaos

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 22:12:10 +0100, esmi wrote:

&gt; And men wonder why it takes women ages to buy clothes.

No we don't. We use the same principle as a highwayman who has just
offered a dwarf the choice 'Your money or your life!'

AKA a folding chair and packed lunch, with a good book to read while the
discussion takes place.

In extreme cases a sleeping bag.
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#76: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 13:20:21 by CeltiKaos

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 12:11:25 +0200, Graycat wrote:

&gt; My dad has a theory that this is because fashion designers tend to be gay
&gt; men, but probably it's just because women shaped like clothes racks are
&gt; much easier to fit.

And the man who invented the woman shaped clothes rack accidentally
brutally slapped himself to death with his tape measure.

Allegedly.
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#77: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 13:21:59 by CeltiKaos

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 11:33:41 +0200, Graycat wrote:

&gt; _only_ works for say, the 75 Bs (swedish sizing)

I'm glad you mentioned Swedish size - my eyes were watering ;)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#78: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 13:24:50 by CeltiKaos

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 08:39:19 +0000, mcv wrote:

&gt; I don't know much about bra sizes (why am I even reading this?)

And how did you get this far down the thread? ;)

*thinks to self* so did you, now shush before anyone notices!
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#79: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 13:28:28 by CeltiKaos

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 10:07:08 +0100, Paul Harman wrote:

&gt; Anything bigger than 34DD conjures up images of Lola Ferrari. Actually,
&gt; what it really means is that unlike those ugly silicone monstrosities, the
&gt; breast doesn't start at the front of the chest and jut straight out, but
&gt; starts on the side.
&gt;
&gt; Paul

Here's me thinking it may be the only bra I've heard of that requires a
soldering iron for running repairs ;)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#80: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 13:57:16 by PeterH

It all started on Wed, 05 Jul 2006 12:24:50 +0100, when CeltiKaos wrote:

&gt; On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 08:39:19 +0000, mcv wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I don't know much about bra sizes (why am I even reading this?)
&gt;
&gt; And how did you get this far down the thread? ;)
&gt;
&gt; *thinks to self* so did you, now shush before anyone notices!

Well, I got this far because I got intrigued by all the interesting sizes.
EEs and Fs and even LLs... it made me think that at some point bras should
switch over from being sold by size to being sold by volume.


...PeterH

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#81: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 13:58:31 by PeterH

It all started on Wed, 05 Jul 2006 12:04:32 +0100, when CeltiKaos wrote:

&gt; On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 20:02:36 +0000, Anastasia wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Never let it be said, either, that I don't send pics where there's even
&gt;&gt; a hint of a polite request.
&gt;&gt; <a href="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/ICFA_1.jpg" target="_blank"> http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/ICFA_1.jpg</a>
&gt;
&gt; The words 'cold' 'shower' and 'omigod' spring to mind :)

For goodness' sake, man, get a grip.

It's just a photo of a woman playing squash.


...PeterH

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#82: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 14:01:28 by CeltiKaos

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 13:58:31 +0200, Peter Davies wrote:

&gt; It's just a photo of a woman playing squash.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; ..PeterH

*choke*

*collapse laughing*
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#83: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 14:04:16 by CeltiKaos

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 13:57:16 +0200, Peter Davies wrote:

&gt; Well, I got this far because I got intrigued by all the interesting sizes.
&gt; EEs and Fs and even LLs... it made me think that at some point bras should
&gt; switch over from being sold by size to being sold by volume.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; ..PeterH

Maybe Hex values?
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#84: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 14:22:47 by Arthur Hagen

esmi &lt;<a href="mailto:esmi&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">esmi&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; on 04/07/2006 21:14 Cathy Young said the following:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Hmm. Generally speaking I have around a size 10 waist, size 14 hips
&gt;&gt; and bust.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; In M&amp;S this translates as
&gt;
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;
&gt; And men wonder why it takes women ages to buy clothes.

No, I think that boils down to simple maths: Women buy X times as much
apparel as men, so they spend X times as much time buying apparel.

Regards,
--
*Art

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#85: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 15:28:20 by esmi

on 05/07/2006 13:22 Arthur Hagen said the following:
&gt; esmi &lt;<a href="mailto:esmi&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">esmi&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;&gt; And men wonder why it takes women ages to buy clothes.
&gt; No, I think that boils down to simple maths: Women buy X times as much
&gt; apparel as men, so they spend X times as much time buying apparel.

If we only spent X times as long, that wouldn't be a problem but I think
it works out at XY - based on buying women X times as many clothes as
men and needing Y additional time to find an item that actually fits!

--
esmi

A Brief Guide to alt.fan.pratchett:
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#86: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 16:05:21 by mcv

Peter Davies &lt;<a href="mailto:peterhjr&#64;yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">peterhjr&#64;yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; It all started on Wed, 05 Jul 2006 12:24:50 +0100, when CeltiKaos wrote:
&gt;&gt; On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 08:39:19 +0000, mcv wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I don't know much about bra sizes (why am I even reading this?)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; And how did you get this far down the thread? ;)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; *thinks to self* so did you, now shush before anyone notices!
&gt;
&gt; Well, I got this far because I got intrigued by all the interesting sizes.
&gt; EEs and Fs and even LLs... it made me think that at some point bras should
&gt; switch over from being sold by size to being sold by volume.

I wasn't aware of the existence of such sizes either. I thought it was
just A to D, and larger than that was occasionally called DD or E, but
there's nothing official about either. Or so I thought, anyway. I have
absolutely no idea what LL is supposed to look like, but Lolo Ferrari
comes to mind, and I can't believe that's very healthy. I mean, I hear
women with size D (DD or E perhaps?) complain about their backs and
shoulders.


mcv.

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#87: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 16:06:37 by mcv

Graycat &lt;<a href="mailto:rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; On 05 Jul 2006 08:39:19 GMT, mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; jotted
&gt; down:
&gt;&gt;Random C &lt;<a href="mailto:random&#64;panatropic.net" target="_blank">random&#64;panatropic.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Random C wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cathy Young wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (Ah, the perennial AFP bra thread.)
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The online measurement guides tell me I'm a 36C. Selfridges tell me I'm
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a 30 or 32D. Selfridges are right. For the first time *ever* my bras
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; don't hurt.
&gt;&gt;&gt; Oh, I just looked at another one someone commented about on LJ. *that*
&gt;&gt;&gt; tells me I'm a 38A.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;I don't know much about bra sizes (why am I even reading this?), so I
&gt;&gt;don't see how there can possibly be any confusion between 38A and 30D.
&gt;&gt;Aren't they basically exact opposites?
&gt;
&gt; The size of the cup is different within the cup size
&gt; depending on the circumference. So a 38A and a 30D could
&gt; well have thhe same size cup, but the woman needing the 30 D
&gt; would have to wind the strap twice around her body with the
&gt; 38A.

So how can a measuring system mess up the 30/38 part? Sounds to me like
that's the easiest bit to determine.


mcv.

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#88: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 16:22:21 by Paul Harman

&quot;mcv&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:44abc721$0$31640$<a href="mailto:e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl..." target="_blank">e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl...</a>
&gt; I wasn't aware of the existence of such sizes either. I thought it was
&gt; just A to D, and larger than that was occasionally called DD or E, but
&gt; there's nothing official about either. Or so I thought, anyway. I have
&gt; absolutely no idea what LL is supposed to look like, but Lolo Ferrari
&gt; comes to mind, and I can't believe that's very healthy. I mean, I hear
&gt; women with size D (DD or E perhaps?) complain about their backs and
&gt; shoulders.


Well, my wife definitely does have back problems, and her grandmother had to
have a reduction because if the damage it was doing to her spine.

But my wife doesn't look *that* large in the chest - nothing like what you'd
expect LL to mean. Sure, it's generous - but it's not as if she's wider than
she is tall, or in imminent danger of overbalancing forwards };*)

Having occasionally observed soft-pr0n images with names such as &quot;34DD
babe&quot;, I'd say she was fairly comparable to that.

So I believe the cup size is more about the shape of the breast, and how it
adjoins the rest of the torso - how far back under the arms and round the
sides it goes, for example.

So a word of warning to you teens out there: you might think you want a
girlfriend with an enormous sounding bra size, but believe me you don't. You
can't buy her underwear - no-one sells anything you want to see her in.
Bikinis? Forget it. Anything much beyond a 36D and no-one makes anything
that fits. Wardrobe options are limited to gents T-shirts and very baggy
jumpers. :*(

Paul

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#89: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 17:11:07 by Graycat

On 05 Jul 2006 14:06:37 GMT, mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; jotted
down:

&gt;Graycat &lt;<a href="mailto:rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;&gt; The size of the cup is different within the cup size
&gt;&gt; depending on the circumference. So a 38A and a 30D could
&gt;&gt; well have thhe same size cup, but the woman needing the 30 D
&gt;&gt; would have to wind the strap twice around her body with the
&gt;&gt; 38A.
&gt;
&gt;So how can a measuring system mess up the 30/38 part? Sounds to me like
&gt;that's the easiest bit to determine.

It should be, yes.

Using the calculation stores give customers I end up with a
cup that's two sizes too small - this can be compensated by
increasing the circumference, just not very well...

--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
The Oswalds DW casting award - Vote Now!
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#90: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 18:47:54 by mcv

Graycat &lt;<a href="mailto:rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 10:00:08 +0100, &quot;Paul Harman&quot;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net" target="_blank">chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net</a>&gt; jotted down:
&gt;&gt;&quot;Random C&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:random&#64;panatropic.net" target="_blank">random&#64;panatropic.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt;&gt;news:opzqg.96181$<a href="mailto:wl.61463&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk..." target="_blank">wl.61463&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...</a>
&gt;&gt;&gt; ...you expect this? Are you that one fabled woman for whom the clothes in
&gt;&gt;&gt; shops *actually fit*? (In marks and spencers I am somewhere between a 6
&gt;&gt;&gt; and a 14. From what I can work out, my waist is a 6 and my arse is a 14.
&gt;&gt;&gt; In Miss Selfridge, last I tried a size 16 was far too small.
&gt;&gt;&gt; On pure measurements, I am within a couple of centimetres of the apparent
&gt;&gt;&gt; fashion-industry ideal size 12 that sample garments are made to (or as my
&gt;&gt;&gt; drafting tutor put it 'goodness! You're almost a Gloria! Except a
&gt;&gt;&gt; different *shape*...')
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Mmmm. I hear you. My wife and I long ago came to the conclusion that women's
&gt;&gt;clothes are made by men for men to wear, because they just don't seem to
&gt;&gt;take into account the fact that women have a nice curvy shape as opposed to
&gt;&gt;being straight up-and-down.
&gt;
&gt; I think they're made for models - ie women who look like
&gt; young men in their mid teens only skinnier...
&gt;
&gt; My dad has a theory that this is because fashion designers
&gt; tend to be gay men, but probably it's just because women
&gt; shaped like clothes racks are much easier to fit.
&gt;
&gt; Anyhow, it would be nice with clothes that took those of us
&gt; who are towars the more hour-glassy end of the shape
&gt; spectrum into account - allowing for a waist that is quite a
&gt; bit narrower than what's above and below it.

My sister often complains about the same problem. She's a pretty
normal or even athletic shape in most areas, but finding trousers
that fit her hips is really hard.

But to her dismay, she recently discovered a whole new class of
nonexistent clothing: maternity motor leathers.


mcv.

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#91: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 19:26:32 by Lister

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 20:43:45 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;
&gt;&gt; (Not sure if he should stay well away or wander down)
&gt;
&gt;I get that a lot. ;-)
&gt;


Just out of interest, did you cut your hair before that pic? (IIRC
you once had a pic with id long)

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#92: Re: [I] Potential London Meets

Posted on 2006-07-05 19:54:00 by Lister

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 22:41:01 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Aquarion wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&lt;staciemeet&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; So if we were to say, for example, the Saturday before the Con, at,
&gt;&gt; say, The Green Man in London, then things might start heading in
&gt;&gt; the right direction...
&gt;
&gt;Ohhhhh, so THAT is how it happens.
&gt;


I'm not very good at this organisation business, but if you were to
get up to Edinburgh or thereabouts after the con I could try and set
something up.

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#93: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 20:09:15 by SteveD

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 18:28:14 +0000 (GMT), Karl &lt;<a href="mailto:karl&#64;kincaid.org.uk" target="_blank">karl&#64;kincaid.org.uk</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;What is it with 'sizes'?

FUD, pure and simple.

&gt;it's hard to have 'size 10 creep' when the numbers are real?

Bingo.

Consider also that most consumers do not stop and really *think* about the
processes that led to minor aspects of the stuff they're buying. Not do
they get annoyed enough to ask themselves if there could be a better way.


-SteveD

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#94: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 20:28:14 by Karl

In article &lt;e8elrt$10o5$<a href="mailto:1&#64;mud.stack.nl" target="_blank">1&#64;mud.stack.nl</a>&gt;,
esmi &lt;<a href="mailto:esmi&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">esmi&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; on 04/07/2006 21:14 Cathy Young said the following:

&gt; &gt; Hmm. Generally speaking I have around a size 10 waist, size 14 hips
&gt; &gt; and bust.
&gt; And men wonder why it takes women ages to buy clothes.

What is it with 'sizes'?
Do manufacturers assume women can't cope with real measurements (ie
waist/leg/'outside' chest)? Is it commercial suicide when it's discovered
that they're not a 14, but 36&quot;? Or just that it's hard to have 'size 10
creep' when the numbers are real?

Madness! Madness I tells you!!

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#95: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 21:31:11 by Graycat

On 05 Jul 2006 16:47:54 GMT, mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; jotted
down:


&gt;But to her dismay, she recently discovered a whole new class of
&gt;nonexistent clothing: maternity motor leathers.

Er...perhaps because the activities that require such are
generally not recommended for pregnant people?

--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
The Oswalds DW casting award - Vote Now!
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#96: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 21:32:10 by Graycat

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 18:28:14 +0000 (GMT), Karl
&lt;<a href="mailto:karl&#64;kincaid.org.uk" target="_blank">karl&#64;kincaid.org.uk</a>&gt; jotted down:

&gt;In article &lt;e8elrt$10o5$<a href="mailto:1&#64;mud.stack.nl" target="_blank">1&#64;mud.stack.nl</a>&gt;,
&gt; esmi &lt;<a href="mailto:esmi&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">esmi&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; on 04/07/2006 21:14 Cathy Young said the following:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; Hmm. Generally speaking I have around a size 10 waist, size 14 hips
&gt;&gt; &gt; and bust.
&gt;&gt; And men wonder why it takes women ages to buy clothes.
&gt;
&gt;What is it with 'sizes'?
&gt;Do manufacturers assume women can't cope with real measurements (ie
&gt;waist/leg/'outside' chest)? Is it commercial suicide when it's discovered
&gt;that they're not a 14, but 36&quot;? Or just that it's hard to have 'size 10
&gt;creep' when the numbers are real?
&gt;
&gt;Madness! Madness I tells you!!

Er...as far as I'm aware most men's clothing comes in sizes
too. Usually S/M/L, but also numbered.

--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
The Oswalds DW casting award - Vote Now!
<a href="http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html</a>

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#97: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 21:37:03 by mcv

Paul Harman &lt;<a href="mailto:chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net" target="_blank">chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; Mmmm. I hear you. My wife and I long ago came to the conclusion that women's
&gt; clothes are made by men for men to wear, because they just don't seem to
&gt; take into account the fact that women have a nice curvy shape as opposed to
&gt; being straight up-and-down.

I sometimes get the feeling many men's trousers are designed for women.
Or possibly transsexuals. People without the bits that I have between
my legs, anyway.

A kilt, now *that's* proper men's clothing.

But apart from that issue, trousers are also still too short, or have
too much hip, or too little, or whatever.

Maybe clothing designers should get some anatomy lessons or something.


mcv.

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#98: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 21:40:07 by mcv

Graycat &lt;<a href="mailto:rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; On 05 Jul 2006 16:47:54 GMT, mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; jotted
&gt; down:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;But to her dismay, she recently discovered a whole new class of
&gt;&gt;nonexistent clothing: maternity motor leathers.
&gt;
&gt; Er...perhaps because the activities that require such are
&gt; generally not recommended for pregnant people?

Her belly starts interfering with her clothes long before it
starts infering with those activities.

However, she solved the problem by cutting up old leather
pants and giving them a bit more room and elasticity around
the waist.


mcv.

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#99: [I] Clothes sizes

Posted on 2006-07-05 21:44:12 by Kevin Golding

Graycat &lt;<a href="mailto:rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; once did write....
&gt;Er...as far as I'm aware most men's clothing comes in sizes
&gt;too. Usually S/M/L, but also numbered.

The numbers do vaguely mean something though. Shirts are neck size,
jackets are chest size, trousers are waist and inside leg. You buy
whatever the measurement is, no conversions needed.

S/M/L is wonderfully vague and can't be used as anything more than a
theory when it comes to how big the clothes actually end up being.
Largely because men can be just as vain as women - albeit we apparently
want everything large and manly instead of small and dainty.

Caomhin,
who once found something which was only made in L/XL/XXL

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#100: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 21:44:25 by mcv

Graycat &lt;<a href="mailto:rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 18:28:14 +0000 (GMT), Karl
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:karl&#64;kincaid.org.uk" target="_blank">karl&#64;kincaid.org.uk</a>&gt; jotted down:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;What is it with 'sizes'?
&gt;&gt;Do manufacturers assume women can't cope with real measurements (ie
&gt;&gt;waist/leg/'outside' chest)? Is it commercial suicide when it's discovered
&gt;&gt;that they're not a 14, but 36&quot;? Or just that it's hard to have 'size 10
&gt;&gt;creep' when the numbers are real?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Madness! Madness I tells you!!
&gt;
&gt; Er...as far as I'm aware most men's clothing comes in sizes
&gt; too. Usually S/M/L, but also numbered.

I prefer my trousers with seperate sizes for waist and length.
And I think they're in inches.


mcv (34&quot;/38&quot;).

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#101: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 21:46:10 by mcv

esmi &lt;<a href="mailto:esmi&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">esmi&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; on 05/07/2006 13:22 Arthur Hagen said the following:
&gt;&gt; esmi &lt;<a href="mailto:esmi&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">esmi&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; And men wonder why it takes women ages to buy clothes.
&gt;&gt; No, I think that boils down to simple maths: Women buy X times as much
&gt;&gt; apparel as men, so they spend X times as much time buying apparel.
&gt;
&gt; If we only spent X times as long, that wouldn't be a problem but I think
&gt; it works out at XY - based on buying women X times as many clothes as
&gt; men and needing Y additional time to find an item that actually fits!

I think men just give up sooner. There's fewer shops that sell men's
clothes, and there's a lot less choice for us, so eventually I either
give up, or I give in and buy something that's not quite what I
wanted.


mcv.

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#102: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 21:51:34 by Ailbhe

Graycat &lt;<a href="mailto:rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote
(on Wed, 05 Jul 2006 21:31:11 +0200):
&gt; On 05 Jul 2006 16:47:54 GMT, mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; jotted
&gt; down:
&gt;
&gt; &gt;But to her dismay, she recently discovered a whole new class of
&gt; &gt;nonexistent clothing: maternity motor leathers.
&gt;
&gt; Er...perhaps because the activities that require such are
&gt; generally not recommended for pregnant people?

Motorcycling is no more dangerous for a pregnant woman than for an
unpregnant one. It's like cycling or driving or being a pedestrian in
that regard. The risks it poses to the woman and the fetus are pretty
much the same, except that the fetus has a sort of built-in safety
system in case of mild accidents.

A.
who recently found a pair of maternity trousers with *pockets*, and who
is often told she can't possibly cycle.

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#103: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 22:01:19 by Random C

mcv wrote:
&gt; esmi &lt;<a href="mailto:esmi&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">esmi&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;on 05/07/2006 13:22 Arthur Hagen said the following:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;esmi &lt;<a href="mailto:esmi&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">esmi&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;And men wonder why it takes women ages to buy clothes.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;No, I think that boils down to simple maths: Women buy X times as much
&gt;&gt;&gt;apparel as men, so they spend X times as much time buying apparel.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;If we only spent X times as long, that wouldn't be a problem but I think
&gt;&gt;it works out at XY - based on buying women X times as many clothes as
&gt;&gt;men and needing Y additional time to find an item that actually fits!
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I think men just give up sooner. There's fewer shops that sell men's
&gt; clothes, and there's a lot less choice for us, so eventually I either
&gt; give up, or I give in and buy something that's not quite what I
&gt; wanted.
&gt;
No, I think there really is more to it than that. A male coworker today
was waxing lyrical about having found somewhere that sold trousers which
fit him, but having found this one shop where this was the case, he
managed to buy six pairs of trousers in different styles, all in the
same size, and they all fit.
Last time I was buying trousers - and bear in mind that I long ago gave
up on the idea of finding anywhere which sells trousers with a waist
that comes anywhere close to mine - I discovered that in *one* shop my
hips were an 8, a 12, and too big for a 14. I didn't find anything in a
10 which fit, but I'm sure if I'd looked a bit more I would have found
some. These were all, of course, low-waisted, which I hate. The only
exception to this I can find at the moment is M&amp;S Per Una stretch jeans,
which are still lower in the waist than I'd like but not as bad as
most. I have five pairs of them in three different sizes. Yes, three
sizes of *exactly the same style*.
--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#104: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 22:29:43 by Stacie Hanes

Peter Davies wrote:
&gt; It all started on Wed, 05 Jul 2006 12:04:32 +0100, when CeltiKaos
&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 20:02:36 +0000, Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Never let it be said, either, that I don't send pics where
&gt;&gt;&gt; there's even a hint of a polite request.
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/ICFA_1.jpg" target="_blank"> http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/ICFA_1.jpg</a>
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; The words 'cold' 'shower' and 'omigod' spring to mind :)
&gt;
&gt; For goodness' sake, man, get a grip.
&gt;
&gt; It's just a photo of a woman playing squash.

&lt;blink&gt;

Well, so it is.

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#105: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 22:34:19 by Stacie Hanes

Paul Harman wrote:

&gt; So a word of warning to you teens out there: you might think you
&gt; want a girlfriend with an enormous sounding bra size, but believe
&gt; me you don't. You can't buy her underwear

Men! So buy jewelry!

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#106: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 22:38:22 by Stacie Hanes

Random C wrote:
&gt; I discovered that in
&gt; *one* shop my hips were an 8, a 12, and too big for a 14. I didn't
&gt; find anything in a 10 which fit, but I'm sure if I'd looked a bit
&gt; more I would have found some.

I have everything from a size 4 to size 10 in my closet, and that's just the
trousers. Granted, the 4 is an anomalous Tommoy Hilfiger pair, and I more
usually wear 8-10, but I have a pair of size 10 Ralph Lauren low-rise
leathers that I currently can't zip, although they fit perfectly last
October.

Anyway, I have a six-size range in my closet that all fit.

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#107: Re: [F] Potential London Meets

Posted on 2006-07-05 22:58:13 by Dom

Aquarion wrote:
&gt; Karen &lt;<a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Aquarion wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;So if we were to say, for example, the Saturday before the Con, at, say,
&gt;&gt; &gt;The Green Man in London, then things might start heading in the right
&gt;&gt; &gt;direction...
&gt;
&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;
&gt; For purely selfish reasons (ie, me not being able to make a Wednesday
&gt; meet in London easily or possibly at all) I'd have to say I prefer the
&gt; Weekend idea, but whatever the consensus is could happen.

Weekends are slightly better for me, but weekdays are not a real problem.

It's been a long time since I've been to the Green Man, perhaps it is
time to test the water again.

--
Dom
afpSlave to CCA

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#108: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 23:04:17 by Graycat

On 05 Jul 2006 19:44:25 GMT, mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; jotted
down:

&gt;Graycat &lt;<a href="mailto:rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;&gt; Er...as far as I'm aware most men's clothing comes in sizes
&gt;&gt; too. Usually S/M/L, but also numbered.
&gt;
&gt;I prefer my trousers with seperate sizes for waist and length.
&gt;And I think they're in inches.

Women's jeans come in those sizes too.

--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
The Oswalds DW casting award - Vote Now!
<a href="http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html</a>

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#109: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 23:09:57 by Graycat

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 20:38:22 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; jotted down:

&gt;Random C wrote:
&gt;&gt; I discovered that in
&gt;&gt; *one* shop my hips were an 8, a 12, and too big for a 14. I didn't
&gt;&gt; find anything in a 10 which fit, but I'm sure if I'd looked a bit
&gt;&gt; more I would have found some.
&gt;
&gt;I have everything from a size 4 to size 10 in my closet, and that's just the
&gt;trousers. Granted, the 4 is an anomalous Tommoy Hilfiger pair, and I more
&gt;usually wear 8-10, but I have a pair of size 10 Ralph Lauren low-rise
&gt;leathers that I currently can't zip, although they fit perfectly last
&gt;October.
&gt;
&gt;Anyway, I have a six-size range in my closet that all fit.
&gt;

Funny, I don't have any experience like that. I vary between
38 and 40 usually (bottoms) or 36 and 38 (tops). So yeah,
there is a bit of a variety, but often that has to do with
the shape of the item - a wide skirt I can wear smaller as
that will fit my wais and flare over the hips, for example.

--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
The Oswalds DW casting award - Vote Now!
<a href="http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html</a>

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#110: Re: [I] -I- Maternity clothes (was: Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-05 23:13:58 by Orjan Westin

Ailbhe wrote:
&gt;
&gt; Motorcycling is no more dangerous for a pregnant woman than for an
&gt; unpregnant one. It's like cycling or driving or being a pedestrian in
&gt; that regard. The risks it poses to the woman and the fetus are pretty
&gt; much the same, except that the fetus has a sort of built-in safety
&gt; system in case of mild accidents.

For most women, this is true. Some are, however, explicitly forbidden
from any activity that might cause sudden movements, like riding a bus
or train. Being pregnant while having a too short cervix means a huge
risk of miscarriage.

&gt; A.
&gt; who recently found a pair of maternity trousers with *pockets*,

In my SO's last pregnancy, she wore her work-issued dungarees, and just
left the side buttons unbottoned and extended the straps a bit. Plenty
of pockets on those.

&gt; and who is often told she can't possibly cycle.

By someone who has seen her try?

Orjan
--
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
Fiction, Thoughts and Software
<a href="http://www.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://www.cunobaros.com/</a>

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#111: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 23:15:59 by Stacie Hanes

Lister wrote:
&gt; On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 20:43:45 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; (Not sure if he should stay well away or wander down)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I get that a lot. ;-)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Just out of interest, did you cut your hair before that pic? (IIRC
&gt; you once had a pic with id long)

It's not been long for several years now. It's been about thus for at least
2 years. The A-Files has a pic of me with long hair, in my natural color,
but it's over 10 years old.

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#112: Re: [I] Clothes sizes

Posted on 2006-07-05 23:17:59 by Stacie Hanes

Karl wrote:
&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:ddYzkTBMaBrEFwga&#64;caomhin.demon.co.uk" target="_blank">ddYzkTBMaBrEFwga&#64;caomhin.demon.co.uk</a>&gt;,
&gt; Kevin Golding &lt;<a href="mailto:kevin&#64;caomhin.demon.co.uk" target="_blank">kevin&#64;caomhin.demon.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Largely because men can be just as vain as women - albeit we
&gt;&gt; apparently want everything large and manly instead of small and
&gt;&gt; dainty.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Caomhin,
&gt;&gt; who once found something which was only made in L/XL/XXL
&gt;
&gt; Condoms?

Ha. I shopped for/with my former husband, and I haven't seen a size &quot;S&quot;
shirt in *years*.

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#113: Re: [I] Potential London Meets

Posted on 2006-07-05 23:24:59 by Stacie Hanes

Lister wrote:
&gt; On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 22:41:01 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Aquarion wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &lt;staciemeet&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; So if we were to say, for example, the Saturday before the Con,
&gt;&gt;&gt; at, say, The Green Man in London, then things might start heading
&gt;&gt;&gt; in the right direction...
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Ohhhhh, so THAT is how it happens.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I'm not very good at this organisation business, but if you were to
&gt; get up to Edinburgh or thereabouts after the con I could try and set
&gt; something up.

I've been warned off Scotland as too ambitious for this trip\\\\\\\\7u6\8
`ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ1 1Avbg.ASPOL

&lt;new kitten on keyboad, small black tomcat named Mal for the captain on
Firefly&gt;

Anyway, Scotland will have to wait, but I'll be back.

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#114: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 23:26:41 by FiX01

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 20:34:19 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Paul Harman wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; So a word of warning to you teens out there: you might think you
&gt;&gt; want a girlfriend with an enormous sounding bra size, but believe
&gt;&gt; me you don't. You can't buy her underwear

&gt;Men! So buy jewelry!

As a replacement? That must *hurt*!

FiX

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#115: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-05 23:35:20 by Stacie Hanes

FiX wrote:
&gt; On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 20:34:19 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Paul Harman wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; So a word of warning to you teens out there: you might think you
&gt;&gt;&gt; want a girlfriend with an enormous sounding bra size, but believe
&gt;&gt;&gt; me you don't. You can't buy her underwear
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Men! So buy jewelry!
&gt;
&gt; As a replacement? That must *hurt*!

Only at first.

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#116: Re: [I] Clothes sizes

Posted on 2006-07-05 23:56:35 by Karl

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:ddYzkTBMaBrEFwga&#64;caomhin.demon.co.uk" target="_blank">ddYzkTBMaBrEFwga&#64;caomhin.demon.co.uk</a>&gt;,
Kevin Golding &lt;<a href="mailto:kevin&#64;caomhin.demon.co.uk" target="_blank">kevin&#64;caomhin.demon.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; Largely because men can be just as vain as women - albeit we apparently
&gt; want everything large and manly instead of small and dainty.

&gt; Caomhin,
&gt; who once found something which was only made in L/XL/XXL

Condoms?

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#117: Re: [I] Clothes sizes

Posted on 2006-07-06 00:42:10 by Hendrik Schober

Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Karl wrote:
&gt; &gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:ddYzkTBMaBrEFwga&#64;caomhin.demon.co.uk" target="_blank">ddYzkTBMaBrEFwga&#64;caomhin.demon.co.uk</a>&gt;,
&gt; &gt; Kevin Golding &lt;<a href="mailto:kevin&#64;caomhin.demon.co.uk" target="_blank">kevin&#64;caomhin.demon.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; Largely because men can be just as vain as women - albeit we
&gt; &gt; &gt; apparently want everything large and manly instead of small and
&gt; &gt; &gt; dainty.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; Caomhin,
&gt; &gt; &gt; who once found something which was only made in L/XL/XXL
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Condoms?
&gt;
&gt; Ha. I shopped for/with my former husband, and I haven't seen a size &quot;S&quot;
&gt; shirt in *years*.

Ah, but you're living in Merkia.

Schobi
(still impressed by &quot;Supersize me&quot;)

--
<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a> is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

&quot;The sarcasm is mightier than the sword.&quot;
Eric Jarvis

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#118: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 01:44:07 by nomail

&gt; My sister often complains about the same problem. She's a pretty
&gt; normal or even athletic shape in most areas, but finding trousers
&gt; that fit her hips is really hard.
&gt;
&gt; But to her dismay, she recently discovered a whole new class of
&gt; nonexistent clothing: maternity motor leathers.

Well, how entrepeneurial is she...?

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#119: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 01:44:07 by nomail

mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; Maybe clothing designers should get some anatomy lessons or something.

Problem is, there are many different styles and shades of anatomy. They
just aim for middling and hope for the best, assuming
at-the-ends-of-the-spectrum people will hit real tailor shops.

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#120: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 01:44:07 by nomail

Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; &gt; So a word of warning to you teens out there: you might think you
&gt; &gt; want a girlfriend with an enormous sounding bra size, but believe
&gt; &gt; me you don't. You can't buy her underwear
&gt;
&gt; Men! So buy jewelry!

Yeah, well, nipple clips can only be worn to a limited number of places,
y'know?

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#121: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 01:51:37 by Stacie Hanes

Boyd Bottorff wrote:
&gt; Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; So a word of warning to you teens out there: you might think you
&gt;&gt;&gt; want a girlfriend with an enormous sounding bra size, but believe
&gt;&gt;&gt; me you don't. You can't buy her underwear
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Men! So buy jewelry!
&gt;
&gt; Yeah, well, nipple clips can only be worn to a limited number of
&gt; places, y'know?

That's not true; they can be worn anywhere.

Just not in the absence of other clothing, in most cases.

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#122: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 04:40:12 by Arthur Hagen

Graycat &lt;<a href="mailto:rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 18:28:14 +0000 (GMT), Karl
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:karl&#64;kincaid.org.uk" target="_blank">karl&#64;kincaid.org.uk</a>&gt; jotted down:
&gt;
&gt; Er...as far as I'm aware most men's clothing comes in sizes
&gt; too. Usually S/M/L, but also numbered.

Where you are, men's sizes actually make sense. If I remember correctly,
for jackets, the number is the distance between shoulder seams in
centimeters followed by a letter describing the cut (A=anorexic, B=skinny,
C=normal, D=straight cut, E=fat, F=obese). Getting the shoulder fit is the
most important -- things like sleeve length can always be adjusted by the
tailor.

Regards,
--
*Art

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#123: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 04:47:30 by Arthur Hagen

Paul Harman &lt;<a href="mailto:chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net" target="_blank">chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; So a word of warning to you teens out there: you might think you want
&gt; a girlfriend with an enormous sounding bra size, but believe me you
&gt; don't. You can't buy her underwear - no-one sells anything you want
&gt; to see her in. Bikinis? Forget it. Anything much beyond a 36D and
&gt; no-one makes anything that fits. Wardrobe options are limited to
&gt; gents T-shirts and very baggy jumpers. :*(

Speaking as an old married man, it's better not to buy a woman clothes
/regardless/ of her measurements. If you buy too small clothes, she'll feel
fat. If you buy too large clothes, she'll think you see her as fat.

Regards,
--
*Art

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#124: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 08:34:53 by Random C

Graycat wrote:
&gt; On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 20:38:22 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;

&gt;&gt;Anyway, I have a six-size range in my closet that all fit.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Funny, I don't have any experience like that. I vary between
&gt; 38 and 40 usually (bottoms) or 36 and 38 (tops). So yeah,
&gt; there is a bit of a variety, but often that has to do with
&gt; the shape of the item - a wide skirt I can wear smaller as
&gt; that will fit my wais and flare over the hips, for example.
&gt;
I find a lot less variation in skirts than I do in trousers. Some of the
ones I've bought in larger sizes because the smaller size will seem to
fit while I'm standing up but as soon as I sit, I'm being cut in half
and displaying arse-cleavage.
--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#125: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 08:49:25 by Random C

Boyd Bottorff wrote:
&gt; mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Maybe clothing designers should get some anatomy lessons or something.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Problem is, there are many different styles and shades of anatomy. They
&gt; just aim for middling and hope for the best, assuming
&gt; at-the-ends-of-the-spectrum people will hit real tailor shops.

Having done some college work on the subject, I can say it's not just
that. Example size-12 clothes are made to fit a size-12 dress form.
Dress forms are made to the right bust-waist-hips measurements, but are,
basically, not person-shaped. They're completely smooth and idealised
and the various curves are toned down.
As my tutor pointed out, in all measurements I was within a couple of
centimetres of the form, and my block (a base pattern altered to fit
exactly which a is then uses as a basis for real patterns of a specific
style) fit the form very well and the side seams were straight. However
on me, the side seams went s-shaped.
The front of the hips had to be taken in and the back let out, the front
of the waist had to be let out - forms go in slightly at the waist in
front, most women go out there - and the back of the waist was so far
away from my body extra darts were put in as well as taking some off the
seams.
This sort of thing only gets done for a tailored-for-you garment, but
you'll never find a woman who's the same shape as a dress form, even if
she has exactly the same measurements.
--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#126: Re: [I] Potential London Meets

Posted on 2006-07-06 08:51:57 by Suzi

In article &lt;18Cqg.3229$<a href="mailto:ye3.1835&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">ye3.1835&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
Anastasia <a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a> wibbled...

[Snip]
&gt; Ohhhhh, so THAT is how it happens.

/me gently *fwaps* Anastasia and points her at the last meets FAQ &lt;G&gt;

Suzi

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#127: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 08:55:38 by Peter Ellis

Random C wrote:
&gt;
&gt; This sort of thing only gets done for a tailored-for-you garment, but
&gt; you'll never find a woman who's the same shape as a dress form, even
&gt; if she has exactly the same measurements.

Bizarre. Why don't they make forms that are the same shape as at least
*some* women? Is it that it's the shape women used to be half a century
ago, before dietary changes, and the clothing world has slow reactions? Or
are they all morons?

Peter

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#128: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 08:59:01 by Flesh-eating Dragon

<a href="mailto:clanwilliam&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">clanwilliam&#64;gmail.com</a> wrote:

&gt; No, you're not weird, you're normal. I've been told by one of those
&gt; online guides that I'm a 40AA (anyone who's seen me will assure you
&gt; that I'm not)

40AA (hex) comes to 16554 (decimal). It's a pity you're not, because
if you _were_ that old, you'd be a serious worry to creationists.

Adrian.

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#129: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 09:07:52 by PeterH

It all started on Wed, 05 Jul 2006 20:29:43 +0000, when Anastasia wrote:

&gt; Peter Davies wrote:
&gt;&gt; It all started on Wed, 05 Jul 2006 12:04:32 +0100, when CeltiKaos wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 20:02:36 +0000, Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Never let it be said, either, that I don't send pics where there's
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; even a hint of a polite request.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/ICFA_1.jpg" target="_blank"> http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/ICFA_1.jpg</a>
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; The words 'cold' 'shower' and 'omigod' spring to mind :)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; For goodness' sake, man, get a grip.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; It's just a photo of a woman playing squash.
&gt;
&gt; &lt;blink&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Well, so it is.

And I suppose this may be as good a time as any to ask what the point
and/or attraction of corsets actually *is*.


...PeterH

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#130: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 09:10:00 by aqusenet

Karl &lt;<a href="mailto:karl&#64;kincaid.org.uk" target="_blank">karl&#64;kincaid.org.uk</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; In article &lt;e8elrt$10o5$<a href="mailto:1&#64;mud.stack.nl" target="_blank">1&#64;mud.stack.nl</a>&gt;,
&gt; esmi &lt;<a href="mailto:esmi&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">esmi&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt; on 04/07/2006 21:14 Cathy Young said the following:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; Hmm. Generally speaking I have around a size 10 waist, size 14 hips
&gt; &gt; &gt; and bust.
&gt; &gt; And men wonder why it takes women ages to buy clothes.
&gt;
&gt; What is it with 'sizes'?
&gt; Do manufacturers assume women can't cope with real measurements (ie
&gt; waist/leg/'outside' chest)? Is it commercial suicide when it's discovered
&gt; that they're not a 14, but 36&quot;? Or just that it's hard to have 'size 10
&gt; creep' when the numbers are real?
&gt;
&gt; Madness! Madness I tells you!!


Do you know what the first sign of madness is?

Suggs walking up your driveway.

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#131: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 09:11:07 by Random C

Peter Ellis wrote:
&gt; Random C wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;This sort of thing only gets done for a tailored-for-you garment, but
&gt;&gt;you'll never find a woman who's the same shape as a dress form, even
&gt;&gt;if she has exactly the same measurements.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Bizarre. Why don't they make forms that are the same shape as at least
&gt; *some* women? Is it that it's the shape women used to be half a century
&gt; ago, before dietary changes, and the clothing world has slow reactions? Or
&gt; are they all morons?
&gt;
&gt; Peter
&gt;
&gt;
I would say they're that shape because they're easy to make - and make
for. They're trying to make something vaguely humanoid without so many
of the inconveniently in-and-outy bits. If you look at the larger sized
forms, it's very obvious that nobody is that shape. A size 18 form will
have a flat stomach.
While I said that most women don't go in at front-waist, perhaps what I
*should* have said was that most women go out below the waist, so it
seems that they do go inwards. But on a form all that is smoothed away
and averaged out so they don't go out below the waist. The curve between
hips and waist on a woman is often a lot more pronounced than you'll
find on a form, but the form's curve will be even and elegant.
It's an ideal, and like most ideals, doesn't actually exist.
--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#132: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 09:32:54 by Random C

Peter Davies wrote:
&gt; It all started on Wed, 05 Jul 2006 20:29:43 +0000, when Anastasia wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Peter Davies wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;It all started on Wed, 05 Jul 2006 12:04:32 +0100, when CeltiKaos wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 20:02:36 +0000, Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Never let it be said, either, that I don't send pics where there's
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;even a hint of a polite request.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<a href="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/ICFA_1.jpg" target="_blank"> http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/ICFA_1.jpg</a>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;The words 'cold' 'shower' and 'omigod' spring to mind :)
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;For goodness' sake, man, get a grip.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;It's just a photo of a woman playing squash.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&lt;blink&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Well, so it is.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; And I suppose this may be as good a time as any to ask what the point
&gt; and/or attraction of corsets actually *is*.
&gt;
A corset which fits well will smooth out unwanted lumps and bumps, make
the waist smaller and help accentuate the bust. Many corsets don't do
this very well and as with everything else, differnt cuts suit different
figure types. I remember seeing in an old book that a corset 'makes a
woman more woman-shaped'.
On many women, the tudor style of corset, which is very straight, will
give the general effect of a woman wearing a barrel, but on some women
it looks wonderful.
On a small-chested woman a renaissance corset will make her look even
more boyish, whereas a busty woman will have somewhere to stand her
drink (and a lot of attention.)
A victorian style corset should hug (and smooth) the hips, bring the
waist in and support the bust, and for most women is, I think, the most
flattering style.
Using pictures of myself - as I don't think it's really fair to use
those of others - as examples, I don't have a tudor style as I know it
wouldn't suit me and I don't generally costume that period.
This is what I look like uncorseted.
<a href="http://pics.livejournal.com/random_c/pic/0000qw5d" target="_blank">http://pics.livejournal.com/random_c/pic/0000qw5d</a>
And this is the same day, in a renaissance style:
<a href="http://pics.livejournal.com/random_c/pic/0000httr" target="_blank">http://pics.livejournal.com/random_c/pic/0000httr</a>
As you can see, it smooths things out and takes me in a little at the
waist (it wasn't fully done up) but I don't really have enough in the
chest to do the style justice.
This older picture shows a victorian style I made myself.
<a href="http://pics.livejournal.com/random_c/pic/00006ech" target="_blank">http://pics.livejournal.com/random_c/pic/00006ech</a>
It's a little more extreme in the waist than it would normally be, as it
had to support the wooden bustle frame I had for my last Miss Band which
would otherwise have made the bodice look bulky. It cinches, smooths,
and supports the bust but was not designed to been seen, just to be
foundation for this:
<a href="http://pics.livejournal.com/random_c/pic/00001x48" target="_blank">http://pics.livejournal.com/random_c/pic/00001x48</a>
Under a very fitted garment, a corset can be the only way to get a
smooth line, unless you are very young and fit.
--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#133: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 09:37:55 by Flesh-eating Dragon

Anastasia wrote:

&gt; <a href="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/ICFA_1.jpg" target="_blank"> http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/ICFA_1.jpg</a>

&lt;adds to staciepic collection&gt;

Adrina.

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#134: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 09:47:14 by Graycat

On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 22:40:12 -0400, &quot;Arthur Hagen&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt; jotted down:

&gt;Graycat &lt;<a href="mailto:rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 18:28:14 +0000 (GMT), Karl
&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:karl&#64;kincaid.org.uk" target="_blank">karl&#64;kincaid.org.uk</a>&gt; jotted down:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Er...as far as I'm aware most men's clothing comes in sizes
&gt;&gt; too. Usually S/M/L, but also numbered.
&gt;
&gt;Where you are, men's sizes actually make sense. If I remember correctly,
&gt;for jackets, the number is the distance between shoulder seams in
&gt;centimeters followed by a letter describing the cut (A=anorexic, B=skinny,
&gt;C=normal, D=straight cut, E=fat, F=obese). Getting the shoulder fit is the
&gt;most important -- things like sleeve length can always be adjusted by the
&gt;tailor.

After checking with a tape measure I think women's sizes
(here) make sense too, sort of [1]. It seems the sizes
correspond to hip/chest measure in inches.

My hip circumference is 39'', so it makes sense that my size
is 38-40. The length of the leg is much less important,
because that's easy to change. It would however be ince if
the could do something about the hip/waist ratio...

UK sizes though, and US sizes, I have no idea where the
numbers come from.


[1] sort of because we don't normally use inches.
--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
The Oswalds DW casting award - Vote Now!
<a href="http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html</a>

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#135: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 09:47:14 by Graycat

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 09:07:52 +0200, Peter Davies
&lt;<a href="mailto:peterhjr&#64;yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">peterhjr&#64;yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt; jotted down:


&gt;And I suppose this may be as good a time as any to ask what the point
&gt;and/or attraction of corsets actually *is*.

It's supposed to make you look more like the ideal body,
without having to do all that inconvenient excersize...

--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
The Oswalds DW casting award - Vote Now!
<a href="http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html</a>

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#136: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 09:47:14 by mcv

Boyd Bottorff &lt;<a href="mailto:nomail&#64;nomail.com" target="_blank">nomail&#64;nomail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Maybe clothing designers should get some anatomy lessons or something.
&gt;
&gt; Problem is, there are many different styles and shades of anatomy. They
&gt; just aim for middling and hope for the best, assuming
&gt; at-the-ends-of-the-spectrum people will hit real tailor shops.

I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere in the future, machines will make
our clothes automatically and perfectly fitted for each customer,
according to a highly detailed model of our body. You go get your
body measured (by some laser thingy, probably), have the results
stored on a chipcard, visit a shop, pick a dress, and the machine
produces that dress in exactly your size and shape.

It's that, our our bodies will be changed to fit the standard clothes.
Perhaps that's more likely, actually.


mcv.

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#137: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 09:47:14 by Peter Ellis

Random C wrote:
&gt;
&gt; A corset which fits well will smooth out unwanted lumps and bumps,
&gt; make the waist smaller and help accentuate the bust. Many corsets
&gt; don't do this very well and as with everything else, differnt cuts
&gt; suit different figure types.

Oh yes. Too many people I've seen seem to have just grabbed for any cut
&quot;because it's a corset&quot;. Result: instead of &quot;tits on a shelf&quot;, they have
&quot;dough in a bucket&quot;. *NOT* a good look.

Peter

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#138: Re: [I] -I- Maternity clothes

Posted on 2006-07-06 09:47:14 by mcv

Orjan Westin &lt;<a href="mailto:nospam&#64;cunobaros.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;cunobaros.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Ailbhe wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Motorcycling is no more dangerous for a pregnant woman than for an
&gt;&gt; unpregnant one. It's like cycling or driving or being a pedestrian in
&gt;&gt; that regard. The risks it poses to the woman and the fetus are pretty
&gt;&gt; much the same, except that the fetus has a sort of built-in safety
&gt;&gt; system in case of mild accidents.
&gt;
&gt; For most women, this is true. Some are, however, explicitly forbidden
&gt; from any activity that might cause sudden movements, like riding a bus
&gt; or train. Being pregnant while having a too short cervix means a huge
&gt; risk of miscarriage.

She does have to get out of bed real carefully already. No sudden
wake up, jump out of bed allowed anymore. And there's some risk of
pelvis instabilty (or whatevet the English word is), but she's
quite muscular in that area, so that helps quite a bit. Or so she
told me.

And she rides a less aggressive and more upright motorbike now.


mcv.

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#139: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 09:47:14 by Paul Harman

&quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:fnVqg.139$<a href="mailto:vO.44&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net..." target="_blank">vO.44&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...</a>
&gt; Men! So buy jewelry!


I didn't mean to suggest that underwear is the only thing men (or women, hey
it's the century of the fruitbat) should buy their beloved.

Paul

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#140: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 09:47:14 by mcv

Graycat &lt;<a href="mailto:rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; On 05 Jul 2006 19:44:25 GMT, mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; jotted
&gt; down:
&gt;&gt;Graycat &lt;<a href="mailto:rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Er...as far as I'm aware most men's clothing comes in sizes
&gt;&gt;&gt; too. Usually S/M/L, but also numbered.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;I prefer my trousers with seperate sizes for waist and length.
&gt;&gt;And I think they're in inches.
&gt;
&gt; Women's jeans come in those sizes too.

I imagine women's jeans could do with separate measurements for waist
and hip, though. Except possibly for those hipster jeans that don't
get anywhere near the waist.


mcv.

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#141: Re: [I] Clothes sizes

Posted on 2006-07-06 09:47:14 by mcv

Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Karl wrote:
&gt;&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:ddYzkTBMaBrEFwga&#64;caomhin.demon.co.uk" target="_blank">ddYzkTBMaBrEFwga&#64;caomhin.demon.co.uk</a>&gt;,
&gt;&gt; Kevin Golding &lt;<a href="mailto:kevin&#64;caomhin.demon.co.uk" target="_blank">kevin&#64;caomhin.demon.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Largely because men can be just as vain as women - albeit we
&gt;&gt;&gt; apparently want everything large and manly instead of small and
&gt;&gt;&gt; dainty.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Caomhin,
&gt;&gt;&gt; who once found something which was only made in L/XL/XXL
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Condoms?
&gt;
&gt; Ha. I shopped for/with my former husband, and I haven't seen a size &quot;S&quot;
&gt; shirt in *years*.

Lately I've been getting the impression that for T-shirts, S and M are
women's sizes, and L, XL, XXL and XXXL are men's sizes. Except that
some men really are M. And lots of women L or bigger.


mcv.

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#142: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 09:47:14 by Lister

On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 08:10:00 +0100, <a href="mailto:aqusenet&#64;mailinator.com" target="_blank">aqusenet&#64;mailinator.com</a> (Aquarion)
wrote:

&gt;
&gt;
&gt;Do you know what the first sign of madness is?
&gt;
&gt;Suggs walking up your driveway.


Hehehe. They should re-form (yes, again)

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#143: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 09:47:14 by Orjan Westin

mcv wrote:
&gt;
&gt; I imagine women's jeans could do with separate measurements for waist
&gt; and hip, though.

Hips, waist, bum, and how far back the bum extends. A pair that looks
good on an apple-shaped bum will look baggy on a pear-shaped one, for
instance.

&gt; Except possibly for those hipster jeans that don't
&gt; get anywhere near the waist.

Yes, what is it with that style anyway? I mean, you very occasionally
see someone with a body it looks good on, but it's extremely rare. Too
little padding and the pelvis stick out as some sort of spiky deterrent,
too much and it bulges out over the top of the jeans.

Not to mention they have the pockets on the back of the thighs, and make
your buttocks look broad and flat. The overall effect is to make the
legs appear a lot shorter than they are, and the torso longer, so the
poor deluded person wearing them looks like some disproportionate freak.

I don't care much how people dress, but I'd like to understand what the
reasoning is for putting on a garment that in many cases disguises nice
features and enhances ugly ones. I've reached the conclusion that
either my aestethics are completely out of wack, or these women
considers the fashion magazines more reliable than their mirrors. Or
they simply do not want to look good.

Orjan
--
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
Fiction, Thoughts and Software
<a href="http://www.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://www.cunobaros.com/</a>

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#144: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 09:47:14 by Lister

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 21:35:20 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;FiX wrote:
&gt;&gt; On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 20:34:19 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Paul Harman wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So a word of warning to you teens out there: you might think you
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; want a girlfriend with an enormous sounding bra size, but believe
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; me you don't. You can't buy her underwear
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Men! So buy jewelry!
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; As a replacement? That must *hurt*!
&gt;
&gt;Only at first.
&gt;


You've tried it? :)

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#145: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 09:47:14 by Lister

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 21:15:59 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;
&gt;It's not been long for several years now. It's been about thus for at least
&gt;2 years. The A-Files has a pic of me with long hair, in my natural color,
&gt;but it's over 10 years old.
&gt;


Oh, I see

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#146: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 09:47:14 by Paul Harman

&quot;Orjan Westin&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:nospam&#64;cunobaros.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;cunobaros.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:4h42b1F1par4nU1&#64;individual.net..." target="_blank">4h42b1F1par4nU1&#64;individual.net...</a>
&gt; I've reached the conclusion that either my aestethics are completely out
&gt; of wack, or these women considers the fashion magazines more reliable than
&gt; their mirrors.


Partly the latter, partly the peer effect, but mostly that's pretty much the
only style available at the moment.

Paul

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#147: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 11:21:37 by aqusenet

mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; Boyd Bottorff &lt;<a href="mailto:nomail&#64;nomail.com" target="_blank">nomail&#64;nomail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt; mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Maybe clothing designers should get some anatomy lessons or something.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Problem is, there are many different styles and shades of anatomy. They
&gt; &gt; just aim for middling and hope for the best, assuming
&gt; &gt; at-the-ends-of-the-spectrum people will hit real tailor shops.
&gt;
&gt; I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere in the future, machines will make
&gt; our clothes automatically and perfectly fitted for each customer,
&gt; according to a highly detailed model of our body. You go get your
&gt; body measured (by some laser thingy, probably), have the results
&gt; stored on a chipcard, visit a shop, pick a dress, and the machine
&gt; produces that dress in exactly your size and shape.
&gt;
&gt; It's that, our our bodies will be changed to fit the standard clothes.
&gt; Perhaps that's more likely, actually.


I find it more likely that fashion houses will demand people change
their bodies to fit the clothes.

Not that I'm a cynic, or anything.

woof bloody woof.

--
'q

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#148: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 11:59:03 by PeterH

It all started on Thu, 06 Jul 2006 10:17:05 +0200, when Graycat wrote:

&gt; On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 09:07:52 +0200, Peter Davies &lt;<a href="mailto:peterhjr&#64;yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">peterhjr&#64;yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt;
&gt; jotted down:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;And I suppose this may be as good a time as any to ask what the point
&gt;&gt;and/or attraction of corsets actually *is*.
&gt;
&gt; It's supposed to make you look more like the ideal body, without having to
&gt; do all that inconvenient excersize...

Whose ideal body? Yours, or someone else's? If not yours, then the corset
makes you look artificial. AND - either way - after a few minutes of
wearing the thing, you get all out of breath and red in the face.

In other words, may as well just do some exercise.


...PeterH

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#149: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 12:01:24 by Paul Harman

&quot;Graycat&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:emhpa2tdlh67nnii8rv2rfmlmd5e6k0g3t&#64;4ax.com..." target="_blank">emhpa2tdlh67nnii8rv2rfmlmd5e6k0g3t&#64;4ax.com...</a>
&gt; It's supposed to make you look more like the ideal body,
&gt; without having to do all that inconvenient excersize...


I can't see anything &quot;ideal&quot; with the Victorian corset - I just can't see
the value of asphyxiation and the distinct possibility of snapping in half.

The things people (especially women) do to themselves for the sake of
fashion...

Paul

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#150: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 12:32:54 by the Tinfoil Hat of Reason

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 05:37:03 +1000, a collection of particles arranged in
such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as mcv, influenced
tha intarweb to propagate the following:

[---8&lt;---]
&gt;
&gt; A kilt, now *that's* proper men's clothing.
&gt;
[---8&lt;---]

They might not be canon, but <a href="http://utilikilts.com" target="_blank">http://utilikilts.com</a> is where I found mine.

C:\&gt;

--
&quot;Where do want to go today?&quot; &quot;I'm thinking <a href="http://gentoo.org" target="_blank">http://gentoo.org</a>&quot;

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#151: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 12:54:33 by mcv

the Tinfoil Hat of Reason &lt;<a href="mailto:ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh" target="_blank">ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 05:37:03 +1000, a collection of particles arranged in
&gt; such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as mcv, influenced
&gt; tha intarweb to propagate the following:
&gt;
&gt; [---8&lt;---]
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; A kilt, now *that's* proper men's clothing.
&gt;&gt;
&gt; [---8&lt;---]
&gt;
&gt; They might not be canon, but <a href="http://utilikilts.com" target="_blank">http://utilikilts.com</a> is where I found mine.

I got my black standard neotraditional there. I plan to buy a workman's
or survivor kilt soon.


mcv.

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#152: Re: [I] Potential London Meets

Posted on 2006-07-06 13:10:34 by Lister

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 21:24:59 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Lister wrote:
&gt;&gt; On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 22:41:01 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Aquarion wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;staciemeet&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So if we were to say, for example, the Saturday before the Con,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; at, say, The Green Man in London, then things might start heading
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; in the right direction...
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Ohhhhh, so THAT is how it happens.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I'm not very good at this organisation business, but if you were to
&gt;&gt; get up to Edinburgh or thereabouts after the con I could try and set
&gt;&gt; something up.
&gt;
&gt;I've been warned off Scotland as too ambitious for this trip\\\\\\\\7u6\8
&gt;`ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ1 1Avbg.ASPOL
&gt;
&gt;&lt;new kitten on keyboad, small black tomcat named Mal for the captain on
&gt;Firefly&gt;
&gt;
&gt;Anyway, Scotland will have to wait, but I'll be back.
&gt;


Hey, it's not *so* ambitious. Anyway, I could go down and see a
friend, maybe take in the stacimeet :)

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#153: Re: -I- Corsets, was -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 13:51:03 by sphira9343

Peter Davies wrote:

[Corsets]
&gt; AND - either way - after a few minutes of
&gt; wearing the thing, you get all out of breath and red in the face.

I've never worn a corset, but I understand that a modern, well-made one
can be reasonably comfortable.
(Although I really wouldn't have liked to wear a Victorian one at all)

CCA

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#154: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 14:38:26 by nomail

&gt; I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere in the future, machines will make
&gt; our clothes automatically and perfectly fitted for each customer,
&gt; according to a highly detailed model of our body. You go get your
&gt; body measured (by some laser thingy, probably), have the results
&gt; stored on a chipcard, visit a shop, pick a dress, and the machine
&gt; produces that dress in exactly your size and shape.

There are already a few people working on stuff like this. The one I
heard about was a women's swimsuit company.

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#155: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 14:40:17 by PleegWat

In article &lt;e8icb5$pql$<a href="mailto:1&#64;mud.stack.nl" target="_blank">1&#64;mud.stack.nl</a>&gt;, 8'FED says...
&gt; <a href="mailto:clanwilliam&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">clanwilliam&#64;gmail.com</a> wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; No, you're not weird, you're normal. I've been told by one of those
&gt; &gt; online guides that I'm a 40AA (anyone who's seen me will assure you
&gt; &gt; that I'm not)
&gt;
&gt; 40AA (hex) comes to 16554 (decimal). It's a pity you're not, because
&gt; if you _were_ that old, you'd be a serious worry to creationists.

40AA, not 0x40AA
--
PleegWat
Remove caps to reply

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#156: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 14:50:17 by clanwilliam

Peter Davies wrote:
&gt; It all started on Thu, 06 Jul 2006 10:17:05 +0200, when Graycat wrote:

&gt; &gt; It's supposed to make you look more like the ideal body, without having to
&gt; &gt; do all that inconvenient excersize...
&gt;
&gt; Whose ideal body? Yours, or someone else's? If not yours, then the corset
&gt; makes you look artificial. AND - either way - after a few minutes of
&gt; wearing the thing, you get all out of breath and red in the face.

Actually, a well-fitting corset will be remarkably comfortable and give
far more support than any amount of exercise. They're fantastic if
you've got to stand for a long period of time - the back support is
superb.

If you're all out of breath and red in the face without exertion, then
there's something seriously wrong with how it's laced. And it's
probably the wrong size and style for you as well.

Jenny

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#157: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 14:54:27 by Anke

Boyd Bottorff wrote:
&gt; mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Maybe clothing designers should get some anatomy
&gt; &gt; lessons or something.
&gt;
&gt; Problem is, there are many different styles and shades of
&gt; anatomy. They just aim for middling and hope for the best,
&gt; assuming at-the-ends-of-the-spectrum people will hit real
&gt; tailor shops.

Would be nice if they *did* that...
I remember reading about a study that revealed that the &quot;ideal
measurements&quot; used by the fashion industry assume a
hip-waist-bust size ratio that only 8% of the women really have.
Er, does anyone want to see if I can find the magazine? I think
it had a link to more info.

Anke

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#158: Re: [I] -I- Maternity clothes (was: Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-06 15:04:09 by Ailbhe

Orjan Westin &lt;<a href="mailto:nospam&#64;cunobaros.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;cunobaros.com</a>&gt; wrote
(on Wed, 5 Jul 2006 22:13:58 +0100):
&gt; Ailbhe wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Motorcycling is no more dangerous for a pregnant woman than for an
&gt; &gt; unpregnant one. It's like cycling or driving or being a pedestrian in
&gt; &gt; that regard. The risks it poses to the woman and the fetus are pretty
&gt; &gt; much the same, except that the fetus has a sort of built-in safety
&gt; &gt; system in case of mild accidents.
&gt;
&gt; For most women, this is true. Some are, however, explicitly forbidden
&gt; from any activity that might cause sudden movements, like riding a bus
&gt; or train. Being pregnant while having a too short cervix means a huge
&gt; risk of miscarriage.

Well, yes, but I was speaking generally.

&gt; &gt; who recently found a pair of maternity trousers with *pockets*,
&gt;
&gt; In my SO's last pregnancy, she wore her work-issued dungarees, and just
&gt; left the side buttons unbottoned and extended the straps a bit. Plenty
&gt; of pockets on those.

I did buy a pair of dungarees several sizes larger than I usually wear, and
they still *just* fit with the side buttosn open. I seem to grow an unusual
amount during pregnancy; I start off too small for the smallest sizes of
maternity clothes and end up barely fitting into the largest ones. Though I
was larger with Linnea than I am with the Tadpole.

&gt; &gt; and who is often told she can't possibly cycle.
&gt;
&gt; By someone who has seen her try?

I have been asked &quot;Are YOU going to CYCLE that?&quot; as I am donning the
cycle helmet and fastening the Sam Browne Belt under the bump, standing
next to the trike.

A.
who actually finds that a nice upright town-bike is a fantastic posture
for her pregnant body; leaning forwards, back straight, legs at an angle,
bump hanging nicely down... Yay!

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#159: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 15:07:59 by Arthur Hagen

Orjan Westin &lt;<a href="mailto:nospam&#64;cunobaros.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;cunobaros.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; mcv wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Except possibly for those hipster jeans that don't
&gt;&gt; get anywhere near the waist.
&gt;
&gt; Yes, what is it with that style anyway? I mean, you very occasionally
&gt; see someone with a body it looks good on, but it's extremely rare. Too
&gt; little padding and the pelvis stick out as some sort of spiky
&gt; deterrent, too much and it bulges out over the top of the jeans.
&gt;
[chop]
&gt;
&gt; I don't care much how people dress, but I'd like to understand what
&gt; the reasoning is for putting on a garment that in many cases
&gt; disguises nice features and enhances ugly ones. I've reached the
&gt; conclusion that either my aestethics are completely out of wack, or
&gt; these women considers the fashion magazines more reliable than their
&gt; mirrors. Or they simply do not want to look good.

Never attribute to malice etc.
The purpose is probably showing off skin that traditionally has been hidden.
This excites teenagers, but then again, what doesn't?

Regards,
--
*Art

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#160: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 15:24:21 by Flesh-eating Dragon

PleegWat wrote:
&gt; 8'FED says...

&gt;&gt; 40AA (hex) comes to 16554 (decimal). It's a pity you're not, because
&gt;&gt; if you _were_ that old, you'd be a serious worry to creationists.
&gt;
&gt; 40AA, not 0x40AA


40AA is the entire number. 0x is but an indicator defined by certain
programming languages, and to the best of my knowledge, nobody on afp
is programmed in any of those languages [1]. Hence there is no reason
to expect a hexadecimal number posted on afp to be preceded by 0x.
Unlike computers, we have the intelligence to deduce what &quot;40AA&quot; means
from context ... as I did.

Adrian.

(may contain traces of irony)

[1] Though I'm open to being corrected on this point.

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#161: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 15:27:33 by mcv

Paul Harman &lt;<a href="mailto:chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net" target="_blank">chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; The things people (especially women) do to themselves for the sake of
&gt; fashion...

What about men? They wear ties! Men have no business complaining about
women's fashion as long as they wear a tie.


mcv (completely tie-free).

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#162: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 15:36:16 by Orjan Westin

8'FED wrote:
&gt; PleegWat wrote:
&gt;&gt; 8'FED says...
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; 40AA (hex) comes to 16554 (decimal). It's a pity you're not, because
&gt;&gt;&gt; if you _were_ that old, you'd be a serious worry to creationists.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; 40AA, not 0x40AA
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; 40AA is the entire number. 0x is but an indicator defined by certain
&gt; programming languages, and to the best of my knowledge, nobody on afp
&gt; is programmed in any of those languages [1]. Hence there is no reason
&gt; to expect a hexadecimal number posted on afp to be preceded by 0x.
&gt; Unlike computers, we have the intelligence to deduce what &quot;40AA&quot; means
&gt; from context ... as I did.

But you did so wrongly. &quot;AA&quot; is a battery size, and 40 of them would be
a quite powerful compound battery.

As everybody knows, a battery is a collection of big guns, hence the
expressions &quot;Bring out the big guns&quot;, &quot;Nice cannons&quot;, &quot;Huge bazookas&quot;,
and &quot;Pwoar, look at that rack&quot;.

Q.E.D.

Orjan
--
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
Fiction, Thoughts and Software
<a href="http://www.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://www.cunobaros.com/</a>

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#163: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 15:39:58 by Paul Harman

&quot;mcv&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:44ad0fc5$0$31647$<a href="mailto:e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl..." target="_blank">e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl...</a>
&gt; What about men? They wear ties! Men have no business complaining about
&gt; women's fashion as long as they wear a tie.


Ties aren't uncomfortable. Shirts with too small a neck size are
uncomfortable, but that's a problem with the fit, not with the concept of
the garment itself.

Paul

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#164: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 15:48:08 by Graycat

On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 10:09:17 +0100, &quot;Orjan Westin&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:nospam&#64;cunobaros.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;cunobaros.com</a>&gt; jotted down:

&gt;mcv wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I imagine women's jeans could do with separate measurements for waist
&gt;&gt; and hip, though.
&gt;
&gt;Hips, waist, bum, and how far back the bum extends. A pair that looks
&gt;good on an apple-shaped bum will look baggy on a pear-shaped one, for
&gt;instance.

Yeah...that's why you _try_them_on_ before paying. No model
fits everyone, no body fits every model.

--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
The Oswalds DW casting award - Vote Now!
<a href="http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html</a>

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#165: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 15:50:34 by Graycat

On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:39:58 +0100, &quot;Paul Harman&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net" target="_blank">chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net</a>&gt; jotted down:

&gt;&quot;mcv&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt;news:44ad0fc5$0$31647$<a href="mailto:e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl..." target="_blank">e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl...</a>
&gt;&gt; What about men? They wear ties! Men have no business complaining about
&gt;&gt; women's fashion as long as they wear a tie.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;Ties aren't uncomfortable. Shirts with too small a neck size are
&gt;uncomfortable, but that's a problem with the fit, not with the concept of
&gt;the garment itself.

Funny, almost the exact same thing could be said about
corsets.

--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
The Oswalds DW casting award - Vote Now!
<a href="http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html</a>

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#166: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 15:51:05 by Brenda

8'FED wrote:
[snip]

&gt; 40AA is the entire number. 0x is but an indicator defined by certain
&gt; programming languages, and to the best of my knowledge, nobody on afp
&gt; is programmed in any of those languages [1]. Hence there is no reason
&gt; to expect a hexadecimal number posted on afp to be preceded by 0x.

Especially as 40AAh should be just as good ;-)

[snips]

&gt; (may contain traces of irony)

Indeed!

--
Ed.

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#167: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 15:53:57 by Paul Harman

&quot;8'FED&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:dragon&#64;netyp.com.au" target="_blank">dragon&#64;netyp.com.au</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:e8j2rh$1ac3$<a href="mailto:1&#64;mud.stack.nl..." target="_blank">1&#64;mud.stack.nl...</a>
&gt; nobody on afp is programmed in any of those languages [1]. [1] Though I'm
&gt; open to being corrected on this point.


I misread that as &quot;nobody on afp HAS programmed in any of those languages&quot;.
Which is clearly false.

But it does raise an intersting thought:

What ames you think that nobody is programmed in any of those languages?

Eliza

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#168: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 15:55:27 by Paul Harman

&quot;Graycat&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:g85qa210ebf8f2gpeeuvdf4j9oktmh4gm2&#64;4ax.com..." target="_blank">g85qa210ebf8f2gpeeuvdf4j9oktmh4gm2&#64;4ax.com...</a>
&gt; Funny, almost the exact same thing could be said about
&gt; corsets.


I have never used a tie to halve the diameter of my neck - whereas it seems
to be the purpose of corsets to give oneself permanent kidney damage, or
similar.

Paul

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#169: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 15:57:10 by CeltiKaos

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 07:32:54 +0000, Random C wrote:

&gt; A corset which fits well will smooth out unwanted lumps and bumps, make
&gt; the waist smaller and help accentuate the bust.

{in the style of Edmund Blackadder]

And there are many who would say that's justification enough for it to be
there :)

&gt; This is what I look like uncorseted.
&gt; <a href="http://pics.livejournal.com/random_c/pic/0000qw5d" target="_blank">http://pics.livejournal.com/random_c/pic/0000qw5d</a>

*eep*

&gt; And this is the same
&gt; day, in a renaissance style:
&gt; <a href="http://pics.livejournal.com/random_c/pic/0000httr" target="_blank">http://pics.livejournal.com/random_c/pic/0000httr</a>

*double eep*

&gt; This older picture shows a victorian style I made myself.
&gt; <a href="http://pics.livejournal.com/random_c/pic/00006ech" target="_blank">http://pics.livejournal.com/random_c/pic/00006ech</a> It's a little more
&gt; extreme in the waist than it would normally be, as it had to support the
&gt; wooden bustle frame I had for my last Miss Band which would otherwise
&gt; have made the bodice look bulky. It cinches, smooths, and supports the
&gt; bust but was not designed to been seen, just to be foundation for this:
&gt; <a href="http://pics.livejournal.com/random_c/pic/00001x48" target="_blank">http://pics.livejournal.com/random_c/pic/00001x48</a>

Tempted to ask about the midget stood behind you, but I'd get slapped
silly so I won't :)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#170: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 15:59:49 by Paul Harman

&quot;Paul Harman&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net" target="_blank">chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:4h4j5dF1pj2qfU1&#64;individual.net..." target="_blank">4h4j5dF1pj2qfU1&#64;individual.net...</a>
&gt; I have never used a tie to halve the diameter of my neck - whereas it
&gt; seems to be the purpose of corsets to give oneself permanent kidney
&gt; damage, or similar.


Oops: *Victorian* corsets.

Paul

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#171: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 15:59:54 by CeltiKaos

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 14:40:17 +0200, PleegWat wrote:

&gt; 40AA, not 0x40AA

Maybe that was meant but it came out as 'oh 'eck.. 40AA'?
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#172: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 16:37:14 by CeltiKaos

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 14:36:16 +0100, Orjan Westin wrote:

&gt; As everybody knows, a battery is a collection of big guns, hence the
&gt; expressions &quot;Bring out the big guns&quot;, &quot;Nice cannons&quot;, &quot;Huge bazookas&quot;, and
&gt; &quot;Pwoar, look at that rack&quot;.

So we go from corsets to batteries, to guns, various items of military
hardware, or euphemisms using such, back to the female anatomy without
passing Go, ending up in Jail, or collecting $200.

Nick trick! :)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#173: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 18:11:16 by Helen

Arthur Hagen wrote:
&gt; Paul Harman &lt;<a href="mailto:chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net" target="_blank">chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; So a word of warning to you teens out there: you might think you want
&gt;&gt; a girlfriend with an enormous sounding bra size, but believe me you
&gt;&gt; don't. You can't buy her underwear - no-one sells anything you want
&gt;&gt; to see her in. Bikinis? Forget it. Anything much beyond a 36D and
&gt;&gt; no-one makes anything that fits. Wardrobe options are limited to
&gt;&gt; gents T-shirts and very baggy jumpers. :*(
&gt;
&gt; Speaking as an old married man, it's better not to buy a woman clothes
&gt; /regardless/ of her measurements. If you buy too small clothes, she'll
&gt; feel fat. If you buy too large clothes, she'll think you see her as fat.
&gt;

I would have thought an old married man would be perfectly capable of
looking at the sizes of her current clothes and making a resonable
guess. Or, heaven forbid, asking her! :p

Helen

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#174: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 19:24:59 by Stacie Hanes

CeltiKaos wrote:
&gt; On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 14:36:16 +0100, Orjan Westin wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; As everybody knows, a battery is a collection of big guns, hence
&gt;&gt; the expressions &quot;Bring out the big guns&quot;, &quot;Nice cannons&quot;, &quot;Huge
&gt;&gt; bazookas&quot;, and &quot;Pwoar, look at that rack&quot;.
&gt;
&gt; So we go from corsets to batteries, to guns, various items of
&gt; military hardware, or euphemisms using such, back to the female
&gt; anatomy without passing Go, ending up in Jail, or collecting $200.
&gt;
&gt; Nick trick! :)

And now you've had the full afpexperience. This is more what we're fam . . .
notorious for than flaming each other to crisps.

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#175: Re: [I] Potential London Meets

Posted on 2006-07-06 19:27:22 by Stacie Hanes

Lister wrote:
&gt; On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 21:24:59 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt; Anyway, Scotland will have to wait, but I'll be back.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Hey, it's not *so* ambitious. Anyway, I could go down and see a
&gt; friend, maybe take in the stacimeet :)

That, OTOH, would be fine. :-)

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#176: Re: [I] Potential London Meets

Posted on 2006-07-06 19:29:01 by Stacie Hanes

Suzi wrote:
&gt; In article &lt;18Cqg.3229$<a href="mailto:ye3.1835&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">ye3.1835&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
&gt; Anastasia <a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a> wibbled...
&gt;
&gt; [Snip]
&gt;&gt; Ohhhhh, so THAT is how it happens.
&gt;
&gt; /me gently *fwaps* Anastasia and points her at the last meets FAQ
&gt; &lt;G&gt;

Harder!

Oh. Right. &lt;cough&gt;

Hehe, yes, I know, I just started the StacieMeet thread a while ago and
suffered an attack of Academia since, so let it drop. The &quot;ohhh, so that's
how you do it&quot; was mild sarcasm. :-)

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#177: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 19:33:20 by alec

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:4h42b1F1par4nU1&#64;individual.net" target="_blank">4h42b1F1par4nU1&#64;individual.net</a>&gt;, <a href="mailto:nospam&#64;cunobaros.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;cunobaros.com</a>
says...

&gt; I don't care much how people dress, but I'd like to understand what the
&gt; reasoning is for putting on a garment that in many cases disguises nice
&gt; features and enhances ugly ones. I've reached the conclusion that
&gt; either my aestethics are completely out of wack, or these women
&gt; considers the fashion magazines more reliable than their mirrors. Or
&gt; they simply do not want to look good.

There are lots of other things that have been done in the name of
fashion which look ridiculous to my eyes. Painting face with white lead,
&quot;beauty&quot; patches, scarification of the face, stretching the neck,
stretching the ear lobes, ridiculous coetry, bustles (make my bum look
big in this)...

Fashion does not have much to do with sense. Indeed, it is often exactly
contrary to sense; if is is sensible, how can people tell you are being
fashionable?

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#178: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 19:35:32 by mcv

Orjan Westin &lt;<a href="mailto:nospam&#64;cunobaros.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;cunobaros.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; mcv wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Except possibly for those hipster jeans that don't
&gt;&gt; get anywhere near the waist.
&gt;
&gt; Yes, what is it with that style anyway? I mean, you very occasionally
&gt; see someone with a body it looks good on, but it's extremely rare. Too
&gt; little padding and the pelvis stick out as some sort of spiky deterrent,
&gt; too much and it bulges out over the top of the jeans.

I kinda like that style, but most women buy them bit too tight.


mcv.

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#179: Re: [I] Potential London Meets

Posted on 2006-07-06 19:41:28 by Lister

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 17:27:22 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Lister wrote:
&gt;&gt; On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 21:24:59 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Anyway, Scotland will have to wait, but I'll be back.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Hey, it's not *so* ambitious. Anyway, I could go down and see a
&gt;&gt; friend, maybe take in the stacimeet :)
&gt;
&gt;That, OTOH, would be fine. :-)
&gt;


Mind you, if I want to go to the con, then it might be tricky

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#180: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 19:42:00 by mcv

Paul Harman &lt;<a href="mailto:chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net" target="_blank">chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &quot;Graycat&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:<a href="mailto:g85qa210ebf8f2gpeeuvdf4j9oktmh4gm2&#64;4ax.com..." target="_blank">g85qa210ebf8f2gpeeuvdf4j9oktmh4gm2&#64;4ax.com...</a>
&gt;&gt; Funny, almost the exact same thing could be said about
&gt;&gt; corsets.
&gt;
&gt; I have never used a tie to halve the diameter of my neck - whereas it seems
&gt; to be the purpose of corsets to give oneself permanent kidney damage, or
&gt; similar.

It's not *required* to strangle your kidneys with a corset. In fact,
I advise against it.

Tight corsets don't look good on skinny women anyway. IMO corsets look
best on women that have something to fill it with.


mcv.

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#181: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 19:55:22 by Stacie Hanes

Peter Davies wrote:
..
&gt;
&gt; And I suppose this may be as good a time as any to ask what the
&gt; point and/or attraction of corsets actually *is*.

&quot;The words 'cold' 'shower' and 'omigod' spring to mind :)&quot;

That reaction is chief among them. I don't like shocking people in a bad
way, but one of my chief pleasures in life is rattling people's cages a bit,
mentally.

I don't have any for-lack-of-a-better-term practical reason to wear a
corset, so it's basically the same as a rather stiff shirt. And it serves as
a marker of my subculture identity--I *am* a certain sort of person, and the
garment serves as a signal to people who are part of the same subculture.

And personally, it's a matter of &quot;who knows? all I know is I find 'em
attractive.&quot;

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#182: Re: -I- Corsets, was -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 20:08:04 by Stacie Hanes

CCA wrote:
&gt; Peter Davies wrote:
&gt;
&gt; [Corsets]
&gt;&gt; AND - either way - after a few minutes of
&gt;&gt; wearing the thing, you get all out of breath and red in the face.
&gt;
&gt; I've never worn a corset, but I understand that a modern, well-made
&gt; one can be reasonably comfortable.
&gt; (Although I really wouldn't have liked to wear a Victorian one at
&gt; all)

Actually, &quot;Victorian&quot; doesn't narrow it down enough . The tightness of the
laces varied over te course of the century--the most obvious case was after
the addition of metal grommets, which permitted much tighter lacing.

Whalebone stays were more springy and forgiving than steel ones; corsets had
varying numbers of stays, and some women removed the stays entirely.

In otter words, some Victorian corsets were far more tolerable than others.

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#183: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 20:14:48 by Stacie Hanes

Paul Harman wrote:
&gt; &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:fnVqg.139$<a href="mailto:vO.44&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net..." target="_blank">vO.44&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...</a>
&gt;&gt; Men! So buy jewelry!
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I didn't mean to suggest that underwear is the only thing men (or
&gt; women, hey it's the century of the fruitbat) should buy their
&gt; beloved.

Of course not. One of my favorite gifts, although it didn't come from an SO,
is a ball of teal-colored yarn.

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#184: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 20:14:49 by Stacie Hanes

mcv wrote:
&gt; Orjan Westin &lt;<a href="mailto:nospam&#64;cunobaros.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;cunobaros.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; mcv wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Except possibly for those hipster jeans that don't
&gt;&gt;&gt; get anywhere near the waist.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Yes, what is it with that style anyway? I mean, you very
&gt;&gt; occasionally see someone with a body it looks good on, but it's
&gt;&gt; extremely rare. Too little padding and the pelvis stick out as
&gt;&gt; some sort of spiky deterrent, too much and it bulges out over the
&gt;&gt; top of the jeans.
&gt;
&gt; I kinda like that style, but most women buy them bit too tight.

I happen to be one of the women who looks taller and slimmer in them. I
*hated* the look at first--which I'd adopted because my new navel piercing
required--until I walked past a mirror and went &quot;whirr? whodat?&quot;

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#185: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 20:20:28 by Stacie Hanes

Paul Harman wrote:
&gt; &quot;Graycat&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:<a href="mailto:emhpa2tdlh67nnii8rv2rfmlmd5e6k0g3t&#64;4ax.com..." target="_blank">emhpa2tdlh67nnii8rv2rfmlmd5e6k0g3t&#64;4ax.com...</a>
&gt;&gt; It's supposed to make you look more like the ideal body,
&gt;&gt; without having to do all that inconvenient excersize...
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I can't see anything &quot;ideal&quot; with the Victorian corset - I just
&gt; can't see the value of asphyxiation and the distinct possibility of
&gt; snapping in half.
&gt; The things people (especially women) do to themselves for the sake
&gt; of fashion...

Well, it's worth pointing out that the women didn't have a whole lot of
choice in the Victorian era. The cultural forces arrayed were vast. There
were actually activist groups who tried for a *very* long time to get rid of
tight corsets, but it was a struggle akin to getting the vote.

Point is, women did not &quot;do [corsets] to themselves.&quot; At least, not all of
them. A great majority of men were solidly behind the fashion-that-was, but
many women also--similar to women who didn't think women were smart enough
to vote. Yet others quietly refused to go along with it, removing their
stays or what-have-you. Despite the presence of many women on the pro-corset
side, it remains a case of sopcietal pressures against the individual woman
because each woman on the pro-corset side had an entire range male friends
and family who were probably pro-corset. Some medical doctors advised
against corsets, but they weren't heeded by most.

Report this message

#186: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 20:25:44 by Stacie Hanes

Graycat wrote:
&gt; On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:39:58 +0100, &quot;Paul Harman&quot;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net" target="_blank">chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net</a>&gt; jotted down:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; &quot;mcv&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt;&gt; news:44ad0fc5$0$31647$<a href="mailto:e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl..." target="_blank">e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl...</a>
&gt;&gt;&gt; What about men? They wear ties! Men have no business complaining
&gt;&gt;&gt; about women's fashion as long as they wear a tie.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Ties aren't uncomfortable. Shirts with too small a neck size are
&gt;&gt; uncomfortable, but that's a problem with the fit, not with the
&gt;&gt; concept of the garment itself.
&gt;
&gt; Funny, almost the exact same thing could be said about
&gt; corsets.

The one I was wearing in that picture (since it's now relevant [1]) is quite
comfortable. So are the several other fabric ones I have. The new leather
one took some getting used to, however, and I can't say I'm actually used to
it yet--mainly because the laces are a complicated affair and I usually
don't have help around.


[1] <a href="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/ICFA_1.jpg" target="_blank"> http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/ICFA_1.jpg</a>

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#187: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 20:29:43 by Stacie Hanes

Paul Harman wrote:
&gt; &quot;Paul Harman&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net" target="_blank">chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:<a href="mailto:4h4j5dF1pj2qfU1&#64;individual.net..." target="_blank">4h4j5dF1pj2qfU1&#64;individual.net...</a>
&gt;&gt; I have never used a tie to halve the diameter of my neck - whereas
&gt;&gt; it seems to be the purpose of corsets to give oneself permanent
&gt;&gt; kidney damage, or similar.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Oops: *Victorian* corsets.

That's one of those half-true things. &quot;Everyine knows that &lt;foo&gt;&quot; In this
case, everyone knows that Victorian corsets were always as constricting as
an aggressive python. ;-)

Corsetry was actually the site of a socio-cultural war in 19th century
England. But the practice was not consistent through the century, and was
much more complicated than Victorian corsets = life-threateningly tight.

The examples seen in museums, well, no one is completely sure why those
specimins were saved. It might be that they were particularly petite or
pretty.

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#188: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 20:36:35 by Stacie Hanes

mcv wrote:
&gt; Paul Harman &lt;<a href="mailto:chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net" target="_blank">chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; &quot;Graycat&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt;&gt; news:<a href="mailto:g85qa210ebf8f2gpeeuvdf4j9oktmh4gm2&#64;4ax.com..." target="_blank">g85qa210ebf8f2gpeeuvdf4j9oktmh4gm2&#64;4ax.com...</a>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Funny, almost the exact same thing could be said about
&gt;&gt;&gt; corsets.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I have never used a tie to halve the diameter of my neck - whereas
&gt;&gt; it seems to be the purpose of corsets to give oneself permanent
&gt;&gt; kidney damage, or similar.
&gt;
&gt; It's not *required* to strangle your kidneys with a corset. In fact,
&gt; I advise against it.
&gt;
&gt; Tight corsets don't look good on skinny women anyway. IMO corsets
&gt; look best on women that have something to fill it with.

I participated in a bref conversation about whether corsets were comfortable
at the 2005 ICFA meeting. For te past several years, I've worn a variation
on the outfit I posted upthread. A few other women have worn similar. One
was a rather plump example of womanhood, and my companion said &quot;those things
are uncomfortable--you know the wearer is into *something* BDSM.&quot;
(paraphrased) I said, &quot;oh, they're not so bad&quot; and was told I didn't have
anything to squeeze, wasit-wise, so I wouldn't know.

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#189: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 20:44:14 by Stacie Hanes

Paul Harman wrote:
&gt; &quot;mcv&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:44ad0fc5$0$31647$<a href="mailto:e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl..." target="_blank">e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl...</a>
&gt;&gt; What about men? They wear ties! Men have no business complaining
&gt;&gt; about women's fashion as long as they wear a tie.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Ties aren't uncomfortable. Shirts with too small a neck size are
&gt; uncomfortable, but that's a problem with the fit, not with the
&gt; concept of the garment itself.


Okay, now I have found the picture of my custom-fitted corset. As it happens
it's less comfortable than the off-the-rack ones, for several reasons. It's
leather, with steel boning, whereas the others are microfiber, or
plastic-boned, or both, with just enough squeeze to smooth and basically
cling like a thick coat of paint.

What I want to point out is the adjustability of the &quot;real&quot; sort of corset.

If you don't want to see me in a corset, don't click on the link, okay?
Atta-group. I am fully clothed, BTW.

Front:
<a href="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/Nudes/1stcorsetpic.jpg" target="_blank"> http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/Nudes/1stc orsetpic.jpg</a>

Back:
<a href="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/Nudes/2ndcorsetpic.jpg" target="_blank"> http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/Nudes/2ndc orsetpic.jpg</a>

In that pic, I'm not actually being squeezed at all. That's pretty much how
I'm shaped. Note the bag. That complicated string arrangement is in fact the
ultimate in adjustable fit.

Or if you have a ladies' maid, it is. Alone, it's more a cat's cradle sort
of purgatory.

One of the purposes of corsets, among all of the other undergarments
Victorian women wore, was nothing more than to have adequate layers between
woman and world. Granny's views on vests are *EXACTLY* how Victorian women
thought about foundation garments, and Nanny's view (as expressed in Witches
Abroad) is the position of the reform activists in the latter part of the
19th century. Midcentury, women wore over 7 lbs of underwear, compared to a
full outfit today, which *might* weigh 3 lbs. There was actually a movement
to reduce the total underwear worn to a *maximum* of 7 lb., if that tells
you anything. Usually, they wore more than that.


Can you tell this is one of the interstices of my personal and professional
interests? :-D

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#190: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 20:48:58 by the Tinfoil Hat of Reason

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 20:11:25 +1000, a collection of particles arranged in
such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as Graycat,
influenced tha intarweb to propagate the following:

&gt; On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 10:00:08 +0100, &quot;Paul Harman&quot;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net" target="_blank">chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net</a>&gt; jotted down:
&gt;
[---8&lt;---]
&gt;
&gt; I think they're made for models - ie women who look like young men in
&gt; their mid teens only skinnier...
&gt;
[---8&lt;---]

They're designed to fit the mannequins AFAICT

C:\&gt;

--
&quot;Where do want to go today?&quot; &quot;I'm thinking <a href="http://gentoo.org" target="_blank">http://gentoo.org</a>&quot;

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#191: Re: [I] Potential London Meets

Posted on 2006-07-06 20:56:55 by Matthew Seaman

&quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; writes:

&gt; The &quot;ohhh, so that's
&gt; how you do it&quot; was mild sarcasm. :-)

Darker hued and less strongly hopped than bitter sarcasm, yet with a
pleasant malty flavour. Mild sarcasm was for a long time associated
with ineffectual middle managers in middle class areas of the
Midlands, which ridiculously unfashionable image led to its downfall.
Unable to compete with the inexorable rise in popularlity of various
trendy continental lager sarcasms (all supplied with handy bottle,
essential for the ensuing punch-up) mild sarcasm was pushed into
eclipse. However under the aegis of the Campaign for Real Sarcasm and
due to the pioneering efforts of a number of small scale producers,
mild sarcasm is now making a well deserved comeback.

Mild sarcasm mixes well with the Irish style of black humour.

Cheers,

Matthew

--
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard
Flat 3
PGP: <a href="http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey" target="_blank">http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey</a> Ramsgate
Kent, CT11 9PW

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#192: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 21:28:44 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 06 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt;

&gt; Can you tell this is one of the interstices of my personal
&gt; and professional interests? :-D

It's not the same period, but am I right in thinking (based on
something I vaguely recall reading once) that in *Regency*
times posh women wore so much underwear because it was, in
fact, not exactly underwear as much as indoor-wear (i.e.they
would recieve visitors in nothing else, so it had to be modest
without a dress on top)?

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#193: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 21:44:27 by Kincaid

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:12aqdes8noognf8&#64;corp.supernews.com" target="_blank">12aqdes8noognf8&#64;corp.supernews.com</a>&gt;,
Helen Taylor &lt;<a href="mailto:hnettlet&#64;coventry.ac.uk" target="_blank">hnettlet&#64;coventry.ac.uk</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; &gt; Speaking as an old married man, it's better not to buy a woman clothes
&gt; &gt; /regardless/ of her measurements. If you buy too small clothes,
&gt; &gt; she'll feel fat. If you buy too large clothes, she'll think you see
&gt; &gt; her as fat.
&gt; I would have thought an old married man would be perfectly capable of
&gt; looking at the sizes of her current clothes and making a resonable
&gt; guess. Or, heaven forbid, asking her! :p

Well, no. because you look at the labels, and go and buy a size &lt;foo&gt; from
a *different* maker. Which is then 3 sizes out..

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#194: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 21:49:45 by Stacie Hanes

Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:
&gt; The time: 06 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
&gt; speaker: &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Can you tell this is one of the interstices of my personal
&gt;&gt; and professional interests? :-D
&gt;
&gt; It's not the same period, but am I right in thinking (based on
&gt; something I vaguely recall reading once) that in *Regency*
&gt; times posh women wore so much underwear because it was, in
&gt; fact, not exactly underwear as much as indoor-wear (i.e.they
&gt; would recieve visitors in nothing else, so it had to be modest
&gt; without a dress on top)?

I can't say for sure since I'm less familiar with the Regency period, but I
seriously doubt it. By the Victorian period, it was considered immodest for
one woman to see an inimate (female) friend in less than petticoats. Like I
said, it's an educated guess, with the emphasis on guess, but I do not think
women would have received visitors in their skivvies.

Other people who know more feel like piping up?

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#195: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 22:40:21 by alec

In article &lt;tPdrg.4097$<a href="mailto:ye3.4016&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">ye3.4016&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a> says...
&gt; Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:
&gt; &gt; The time: 06 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
&gt; &gt; speaker: &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Can you tell this is one of the interstices of my personal
&gt; &gt;&gt; and professional interests? :-D
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; It's not the same period, but am I right in thinking (based on
&gt; &gt; something I vaguely recall reading once) that in *Regency*
&gt; &gt; times posh women wore so much underwear because it was, in
&gt; &gt; fact, not exactly underwear as much as indoor-wear (i.e.they
&gt; &gt; would recieve visitors in nothing else, so it had to be modest
&gt; &gt; without a dress on top)?
&gt;
&gt; I can't say for sure since I'm less familiar with the Regency period, but I
&gt; seriously doubt it. By the Victorian period, it was considered immodest for
&gt; one woman to see an inimate (female) friend in less than petticoats. Like I
&gt; said, it's an educated guess, with the emphasis on guess, but I do not think
&gt; women would have received visitors in their skivvies.
&gt;
&gt; Other people who know more feel like piping up?

I entirely concur with you on Victorian custom,

However, as I recall, in France at the time we call Regency, it was not
uncommon for upper class ladies to receive guests of both sexes while
they were &quot;dressing&quot;. Which I think means that they were wearing vey
full underclothes of the sort that Daibhid describes, but having their
hair and makeup done, then being carefully laced into a complex multi-
layer outer clothing which, as you describe, requires the assistance of
a ladies maid to put on.[1]

I think that this was less true in London, but I don't really know that.

However, I think that this was less the cause than the effect of having
such underclothing. The cause of the underclothing was, I think, simply
lack of heating and, due to lack of machine made door and window
fittings and the high price of glass, a generous supply of drafts. Rich
or poor could only really afford a singl pool of heat in the house -
poor becasuae they couldn't affor much fuel, and rich because they had
big drafty rooms. So if you got cold, you tended to stay cold for 2/3 of
the year. In the summer, the gentry went to the country, where theings
wer run informally and less underwear might be worn.

[1]The whole ensemble probably acted as a very effective chastity belt,
becasue it would take many minutes and skilled assistance to get out of,
and any attempt to rip the clothe of passionately would probably result
in knots that would require a needlewoman to get out of.

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#196: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 22:53:24 by aqusenet

Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; CeltiKaos wrote:
&gt; &gt; On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 14:36:16 +0100, Orjan Westin wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; As everybody knows, a battery is a collection of big guns, hence
&gt; &gt;&gt; the expressions &quot;Bring out the big guns&quot;, &quot;Nice cannons&quot;, &quot;Huge
&gt; &gt;&gt; bazookas&quot;, and &quot;Pwoar, look at that rack&quot;.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; So we go from corsets to batteries, to guns, various items of
&gt; &gt; military hardware, or euphemisms using such, back to the female
&gt; &gt; anatomy without passing Go, ending up in Jail, or collecting $200.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Nick trick! :)
&gt;
&gt; And now you've had the full afpexperience. This is more what we're fam . . .
&gt; notorious for than flaming each other to crisps.

Mmm. crisps.

Actually, we missed the bread.

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#197: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 23:07:13 by SteveD

On 06 Jul 2006 08:33:32 GMT, mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere in the future, machines will make
&gt;our clothes automatically and perfectly fitted for each customer,
&gt;according to a highly detailed model of our body. You go get your
&gt;body measured (by some laser thingy, probably), have the results
&gt;stored on a chipcard, visit a shop, pick a dress, and the machine
&gt;produces that dress in exactly your size and shape.

They've already got part of this. The American Army, from what I hear,
uses body-scanners to determine the correct uniform size for the soldiers.
As far as I'm aware, though, the uniforms aren't subsequently modified to
fit, it's just that they have a boatload of different sizes and types, the
scanner picks the closest one, and that's what they get issued.

Can't have the troops distracted by ill-fitting clothing and all that.

I'm still surprised that no-one has invented the automatic clothes-making
machine. I know there's some automation in mass production, but is there
any kind of garment which is regularly taken from raw bolts of material to
finished product without any kind of human intervention?


-SteveD

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#198: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 23:10:00 by Brenda

Aquarion wrote:
&gt; Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; CeltiKaos wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 14:36:16 +0100, Orjan Westin wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; As everybody knows, a battery is a collection of big guns, hence
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the expressions &quot;Bring out the big guns&quot;, &quot;Nice cannons&quot;, &quot;Huge
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bazookas&quot;, and &quot;Pwoar, look at that rack&quot;.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; So we go from corsets to batteries, to guns, various items of
&gt;&gt;&gt; military hardware, or euphemisms using such, back to the female
&gt;&gt;&gt; anatomy without passing Go, ending up in Jail, or collecting $200.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Nick trick! :)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; And now you've had the full afpexperience. This is more what we're
&gt;&gt; fam . . . notorious for than flaming each other to crisps.
&gt;
&gt; Mmm. crisps.
&gt;
&gt; Actually, we missed the bread.

No one has mentioned the marmite ...

--
Ed.

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#199: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 23:17:20 by Lister

On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 22:10:00 +0100, &quot;Ed Weatherup&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Aquarion wrote:
&gt;&gt; Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; CeltiKaos wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 14:36:16 +0100, Orjan Westin wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; As everybody knows, a battery is a collection of big guns, hence
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the expressions &quot;Bring out the big guns&quot;, &quot;Nice cannons&quot;, &quot;Huge
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bazookas&quot;, and &quot;Pwoar, look at that rack&quot;.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So we go from corsets to batteries, to guns, various items of
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; military hardware, or euphemisms using such, back to the female
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; anatomy without passing Go, ending up in Jail, or collecting $200.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Nick trick! :)
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; And now you've had the full afpexperience. This is more what we're
&gt;&gt;&gt; fam . . . notorious for than flaming each other to crisps.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Mmm. crisps.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Actually, we missed the bread.
&gt;
&gt;No one has mentioned the marmite ...


Mmm, marmite

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#200: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 23:17:37 by mcv

Alec Cawley &lt;<a href="mailto:alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk" target="_blank">alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; [1]The whole ensemble probably acted as a very effective chastity belt,
&gt; becasue it would take many minutes and skilled assistance to get out of,
&gt; and any attempt to rip the clothe of passionately would probably result
&gt; in knots that would require a needlewoman to get out of.

Dresses are open from below.


mcv.

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#201: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 23:18:25 by SteveD

On 06 Jul 2006 13:27:33 GMT, mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Paul Harman &lt;<a href="mailto:chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net" target="_blank">chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; The things people (especially women) do to themselves for the sake of
&gt;&gt; fashion...
&gt;
&gt;What about men? They wear ties! Men have no business complaining about
&gt;women's fashion as long as they wear a tie.

People still wear ties?

What I find amusing is that men who need other people to maintain their
power base - politicians, CEOs of publically-listed companies etc - are
almost never seen without a tie (except in very carefully constructed
photo-ops). Whereas hyper-successful blokes who aren't dependent on anyone
else's opinion are quite often tie-less.

Bill Gates wears them when he's shilling for Microsoft, but not when he's
doing his own thing. I can't remember the last time I saw Richard Branson
wearing one, if ever. The stereotypical 'rich bloke relaxing at home'
outfit is often a polo shirt and pullover (probably costing about fifty
times the local department-store equivalent, but the style is the same),
with casual trousers.

Ties seem to be for hiding behind more than anything else.


-SteveD

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#202: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 23:22:00 by Stacie Hanes

mcv wrote:
&gt; Alec Cawley &lt;<a href="mailto:alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk" target="_blank">alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; [1]The whole ensemble probably acted as a very effective chastity
&gt;&gt; belt, becasue it would take many minutes and skilled assistance to
&gt;&gt; get out of, and any attempt to rip the clothe of passionately
&gt;&gt; would probably result in knots that would require a needlewoman to
&gt;&gt; get out of.
&gt;
&gt; Dresses are open from below.


And it was actually the advent of the rather tip-over-able dressess of the
middle and later Vic. period that requires bloomers, because if you triped,
your dress went over your head. No mention made in that source about what
they wore underneath before the famous tippable crinolines.

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#203: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 23:23:43 by SteveD

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 18:44:14 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;Okay, now I have found the picture of my custom-fitted corset. As it happens
&gt;it's less comfortable than the off-the-rack ones, for several reasons. It's
&gt;leather, with steel boning, whereas the others are microfiber, or
&gt;plastic-boned, or both, with just enough squeeze to smooth and basically
&gt;cling like a thick coat of paint.

[snip]

&gt;Front:
&gt;<a href="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/Nudes/1stcorsetpic.jpg" target="_blank"> http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/Nudes/1stc orsetpic.jpg</a>

I like the casual stance, and how it's visually and perceptually offset by
the Rolling Stone cover at the top right.


-SteveD

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#204: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 23:23:59 by Lister

On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 07:23:43 +1000, SteveD &lt;<a href="mailto:usenet&#64;vo.id.au" target="_blank">usenet&#64;vo.id.au</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 18:44:14 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt;
&gt;wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Okay, now I have found the picture of my custom-fitted corset. As it happens
&gt;&gt;it's less comfortable than the off-the-rack ones, for several reasons. It's
&gt;&gt;leather, with steel boning, whereas the others are microfiber, or
&gt;&gt;plastic-boned, or both, with just enough squeeze to smooth and basically
&gt;&gt;cling like a thick coat of paint.
&gt;
&gt;[snip]
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Front:
&gt;&gt;<a href="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/Nudes/1stcorsetpic.jpg" target="_blank"> http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/Nudes/1stc orsetpic.jpg</a>
&gt;
&gt;I like the casual stance, and how it's visually and perceptually offset by
&gt;the Rolling Stone cover at the top right.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;-SteveD


Why is the directory called &quot;nudes&quot;?

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#205: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 23:28:12 by Stacie Hanes

Lister wrote:
&gt; On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 07:23:43 +1000, SteveD &lt;<a href="mailto:usenet&#64;vo.id.au" target="_blank">usenet&#64;vo.id.au</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 18:44:14 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;&gt; [snip]
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Front:
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/Nudes/1stcorsetpic.jpg" target="_blank"> http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/Nudes/1stc orsetpic.jpg</a>
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I like the casual stance, and how it's visually and perceptually
&gt;&gt; offset by the Rolling Stone cover at the top right.
&gt;&gt;
&gt; Why is the directory called &quot;nudes&quot;?

Because there are nude and scantily clad pictures in it.

Ask a silly question...get a perfectly serious answer, in this case. I
takepictures and make photomanipulation art. lot of tem aren't what you'd
call fully clothed, since I'm not a fashion photographer and IMO bodies are
more interesting than most articles of clothing.

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#206: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-06 23:29:36 by Arthur Hagen

Paul Harman &lt;<a href="mailto:chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net" target="_blank">chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; Ties aren't uncomfortable. Shirts with too small a neck size are
&gt; uncomfortable, but that's a problem with the fit, not with the
&gt; concept of the garment itself.

No, that's a problem with buttoning the top two buttons.
Once I become supreme dictator, men will be allowed to wear polo shirts as
business attire.

Regards,
--
*Art

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#207: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 00:27:27 by alec

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:3huqa21f7k0eavusjudrm3rfotqtrjjmv6&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">3huqa21f7k0eavusjudrm3rfotqtrjjmv6&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;, <a href="mailto:usenet&#64;vo.id.au" target="_blank">usenet&#64;vo.id.au</a>
says...

&gt; I'm still surprised that no-one has invented the automatic clothes-making
&gt; machine. I know there's some automation in mass production, but is there
&gt; any kind of garment which is regularly taken from raw bolts of material to
&gt; finished product without any kind of human intervention?

Assembly generally incolves such complex shapes and movements that
humans are still better than machines. Cutting out is nearly all done by
machines. I think socks are knitted by machines in a single operation.

Report this message

#208: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 00:28:25 by sphira9343

Anastasia wrote:

&gt; If you don't want to see me in a corset, don't click on the link, okay?
&gt; Atta-group. I am fully clothed, BTW.

(snip Picture URLs)

*looks at corset*

*looks at surroundings, especially on the first photo*

That's a whole lot of Buffy you've got there! :-)

CCA

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#209: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 00:30:07 by alec

In article &lt;Y9frg.4631$<a href="mailto:cd3.1588&#64;newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">cd3.1588&#64;newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a> says...
&gt; mcv wrote:
&gt; &gt; Alec Cawley &lt;<a href="mailto:alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk" target="_blank">alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; [1]The whole ensemble probably acted as a very effective chastity
&gt; &gt;&gt; belt, becasue it would take many minutes and skilled assistance to
&gt; &gt;&gt; get out of, and any attempt to rip the clothe of passionately
&gt; &gt;&gt; would probably result in knots that would require a needlewoman to
&gt; &gt;&gt; get out of.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Dresses are open from below.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; And it was actually the advent of the rather tip-over-able dressess of the
&gt; middle and later Vic. period that requires bloomers, because if you triped,
&gt; your dress went over your head. No mention made in that source about what
&gt; they wore underneath before the famous tippable crinolines.

I think the point of the Folies Bergeres (= Shepherdess follies), where
the can-can was invented, was that country girls such as shepherdesses
were known for not owning underwear. Of course, for the wall posters,
they added underwear.

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#210: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 00:32:10 by Random C

Peter Davies wrote:
&gt; It all started on Thu, 06 Jul 2006 10:17:05 +0200, when Graycat wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 09:07:52 +0200, Peter Davies &lt;<a href="mailto:peterhjr&#64;yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">peterhjr&#64;yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt;
&gt;&gt;jotted down:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;And I suppose this may be as good a time as any to ask what the point
&gt;&gt;&gt;and/or attraction of corsets actually *is*.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;It's supposed to make you look more like the ideal body, without having to
&gt;&gt;do all that inconvenient excersize...
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Whose ideal body? Yours, or someone else's? If not yours, then the corset
&gt; makes you look artificial. AND - either way - after a few minutes of
&gt; wearing the thing, you get all out of breath and red in the face.
&gt;
&gt; In other words, may as well just do some exercise.
&gt;
Actually, no, I don't. And no amount of exercise - most of which is
rather painful for me, given my iffy knees - will make me *that* shape.
--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#211: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 00:36:14 by Random C

Anastasia wrote:
&gt; Paul Harman wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&quot;Paul Harman&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net" target="_blank">chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt;&gt;news:<a href="mailto:4h4j5dF1pj2qfU1&#64;individual.net..." target="_blank">4h4j5dF1pj2qfU1&#64;individual.net...</a>
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;I have never used a tie to halve the diameter of my neck - whereas
&gt;&gt;&gt;it seems to be the purpose of corsets to give oneself permanent
&gt;&gt;&gt;kidney damage, or similar.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Oops: *Victorian* corsets.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; That's one of those half-true things. &quot;Everyine knows that &lt;foo&gt;&quot; In this
&gt; case, everyone knows that Victorian corsets were always as constricting as
&gt; an aggressive python. ;-)
&gt;
&gt; Corsetry was actually the site of a socio-cultural war in 19th century
&gt; England. But the practice was not consistent through the century, and was
&gt; much more complicated than Victorian corsets = life-threateningly tight.
&gt;
&gt; The examples seen in museums, well, no one is completely sure why those
&gt; specimins were saved. It might be that they were particularly petite or
&gt; pretty.
&gt;
&gt;
In a lot of cases they would have been samples, made smaller than the
real thing, for showing to clients.
There *were* women with stupidly small waists - there still are, and I
could give some names to google for if anyone wants to see what some
women do to themselves - however, I do not practice waist training, and
my corsets do not damage me or have any permanent effect.
At the last convention, having had a coughing fit while bent over tying
my boots, I managed to re-break a recently broken rib. I had to stagger
up to the Chaos room and get Teddy to lace me into my corset so I could
breathe without as much pain as the corset held my rib in place.

--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#212: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 00:42:59 by nomail

Arthur Hagen &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; No, that's a problem with buttoning the top two buttons.
&gt; Once I become supreme dictator, men will be allowed to wear polo shirts as
&gt; business attire.

I'ld vote for you for dictator, except that I secretly want John
Lassiter in that position. Hawaiian shirts for everyone!

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#213: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 00:46:17 by Random C

Aquarion wrote:

&gt; Actually, we missed the bread.
It's on LJ. Hunter made it earlier.

--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#214: Re: [I] -I- Metadoc measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 00:58:20 by Flesh-eating Dragon

esmi sigged:

&gt; A Brief Guide to alt.fan.pratchett:
&gt; <a href="http://www.blackwidows.co.uk/afp-guide/" target="_blank">http://www.blackwidows.co.uk/afp-guide/</a>

Now THAT looks very familiar. :-)

[For those that don't know - and that'll be the bulk of modern
afpers - it's the nth version of a document for which I wrote the
original draft. Various people have changed things, but it still
contains some of my original words. Long time ago, that was.]

Actually, I went and looked up the old version on the wayback machine
last week when we were all emthreading, for research purposes.

Adrian.

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#215: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 01:06:12 by Arthur Hagen

Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; I takepictures and make photomanipulation art.

AndIpresume you do that in... zer dungeon?

Regards,
--
*Art

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#216: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 01:09:55 by Arthur Hagen

Boyd Bottorff &lt;<a href="mailto:nomail&#64;nomail.com" target="_blank">nomail&#64;nomail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Arthur Hagen &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; No, that's a problem with buttoning the top two buttons.
&gt;&gt; Once I become supreme dictator, men will be allowed to wear polo
&gt;&gt; shirts as business attire.
&gt;
&gt; I'ld vote for you for dictator, except that I secretly want John
&gt; Lassiter in that position. Hawaiian shirts for everyone!

No, no! Then the *women* will wear them too! They, of course, should wear
something gravity-defying, skin-tight, shiny and not too durable.

Regards,
--
*Art

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#217: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 01:25:58 by CeltiKaos

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 17:55:22 +0000, Anastasia wrote:

&gt; &quot;The words 'cold' 'shower' and 'omigod' spring to mind :)&quot;

As that was my reaction, I hope you weren't offended. It was intended as
a simple way to show appreciation of an attractive lady :)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#218: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 01:26:43 by CeltiKaos

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 17:24:59 +0000, Anastasia wrote:

&gt; And now you've had the full afpexperience. This is more what we're fam . .
&gt; . notorious for than flaming each other to crisps.

I think I'm going to like it here :)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#219: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 01:30:31 by CeltiKaos

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 19:44:27 +0000, Kincaid wrote:

&gt; Well, no. because you look at the labels, and go and buy a size &lt;foo&gt; from
&gt; a *different* maker. Which is then 3 sizes out..

Or same maker, different style. Same problem.

ladies' clothes purchasing = minefield. Enter both with a long stick [1]
handy so you're at a safe distance when the explosion occurs :)

[1] Not the same stick I use to prod reality.. that's much longer :)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#220: Re: [I] Jewelry // was -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 01:43:32 by Flesh-eating Dragon

Anastasia wrote:
&gt; Paul Harman wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; So a word of warning to you teens out there: you might think you
&gt;&gt; want a girlfriend with an enormous sounding bra size, but believe
&gt;&gt; me you don't. You can't buy her underwear
&gt;
&gt; Men! So buy jewelry!

I was websurfing recently and happened upon these:

<a href="http://www.thepapercraneorigami.com/ear.html" target="_blank">http://www.thepapercraneorigami.com/ear.html</a>

especially: <a href="http://www.thepapercraneorigami.com/ear3.html" target="_blank">http://www.thepapercraneorigami.com/ear3.html</a>

Of course, I wouldn't /wear/ them, but they made me stop and think,
&quot;hmm, nice&quot;.

Adrian.

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#221: Re: [I] Kittens and keyboards and other curious things // was Potential London Meets

Posted on 2006-07-07 01:57:14 by Flesh-eating Dragon

Anastasia wrote:

&gt; I've been warned off Scotland as too ambitious for this trip\\\\\\\\7u6\8
&gt; `ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ1 1Avbg.ASPOL
&gt;
&gt; &lt;new kitten on keyboad, small black tomcat named Mal for the captain on
&gt; Firefly&gt;

When you've got a certain computer game set up, I wonder who will get
the highest scores - you or the kitten?

Explanatory note for audience:

A while back, I sent Stacie a copy of a classic 1980s computer game
(how many people remember _Alley Cat_ ? [1]) and suggested that, after
first installing and setting up Dosbox, she might enjoy it.

Last I heard, it had been put on her &quot;when I'm not so busy&quot; list.

Adrian.

[1] It was perhaps the only game ever in which CGA graphics actually
/worked/.

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#222: [I] Business attire (was: Re: - Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-07 02:11:18 by James Mitchelhill

On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 07:18:25 +1000, SteveD wrote:

&gt; People still wear ties?
&gt;
&gt; What I find amusing is that men who need other people to maintain their
&gt; power base - politicians, CEOs of publically-listed companies etc - are
&gt; almost never seen without a tie (except in very carefully constructed
&gt; photo-ops). Whereas hyper-successful blokes who aren't dependent on anyone
&gt; else's opinion are quite often tie-less.

This is because someone who needs to be part of a business community (or
has to appear to be) needs to present the right image, which means
conforming to the standard uniform. While the hyper-successful blokes
tend to need to present an image of not conforming, to maintain their
illusion of being ahead and apart from the crowd.

Both are uniforms. Both have very similar purposes.

&gt; Bill Gates wears them when he's shilling for Microsoft, but not when he's
&gt; doing his own thing. I can't remember the last time I saw Richard Branson
&gt; wearing one, if ever. The stereotypical 'rich bloke relaxing at home'
&gt; outfit is often a polo shirt and pullover (probably costing about fifty
&gt; times the local department-store equivalent, but the style is the same),
&gt; with casual trousers.
&gt;
&gt; Ties seem to be for hiding behind more than anything else.

Ties are for projecting the image of being the kind of man who wears a
tie. Wearing one doesn't mean you're professional, but it does mean you
care enough about appearing professional to bother, which is a kind of
professionalism in itself.

Ties aren't for hiding behind - that's what pointless bureaucracy is
for. The fact that this is often perpetrated by men in ties is entirely
coincidental.

--
James Mitchelhill
<a href="mailto:james&#64;disorderfeed.net" target="_blank">james&#64;disorderfeed.net</a>
<a href="http://disorderfeed.net" target="_blank">http://disorderfeed.net</a>

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#223: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 03:27:18 by SteveD

On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 19:09:55 -0400, &quot;Arthur Hagen&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;No, no! Then the *women* will wear them too! They, of course, should wear
&gt;something gravity-defying, skin-tight, shiny and not too durable.

....tinfoil stockings?

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#224: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 04:04:34 by tms

8'FED wrote:
&gt;
&gt; 40AA is the entire number. 0x is but an indicator defined by certain
&gt; programming languages, and to the best of my knowledge, nobody on afp
&gt; is programmed in any of those languages [1].

Igors, of course, are programmed in Lisp.

--
Thomas M. Sommers -- <a href="mailto:tms&#64;nj.net" target="_blank">tms&#64;nj.net</a> -- AB2SB

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#225: Re: [I] Jewelry // was -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 04:21:02 by Stacie Hanes

8'FED wrote:
&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt; Paul Harman wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; So a word of warning to you teens out there: you might think you
&gt;&gt;&gt; want a girlfriend with an enormous sounding bra size, but believe
&gt;&gt;&gt; me you don't. You can't buy her underwear
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Men! So buy jewelry!
&gt;
&gt; I was websurfing recently and happened upon these:
&gt;
&gt; <a href="http://www.thepapercraneorigami.com/ear.html" target="_blank">http://www.thepapercraneorigami.com/ear.html</a>
&gt;
&gt; especially: <a href="http://www.thepapercraneorigami.com/ear3.html" target="_blank">http://www.thepapercraneorigami.com/ear3.html</a>
&gt;
&gt; Of course, I wouldn't /wear/ them, but they made me stop and think,
&gt; &quot;hmm, nice&quot;.

Yes...very nice. I could do those if I tracked down some of the sealer she
uses. It's on the same list as Alley Cat.

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#226: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 04:32:26 by Stacie Hanes

CCA wrote:

&gt; *looks at surroundings, especially on the first photo*
&gt;
&gt; That's a whole lot of Buffy you've got there! :-)

It's my professional library--got to have the canonical texts handy, you
know.

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#227: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 04:37:01 by Stacie Hanes

Arthur Hagen wrote:
&gt; Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I takepictures and make photomanipulation art.
&gt;
&gt; AndIpresume you do that in... zer dungeon?

If you believe peachy, I do just about everything in a dungeon, since my
apartment is decorated in &quot;late-period opera ghost.&quot;

<a href="http://esmeraldus.blogspot.com/2006/01/its-not-as-though-theyre-big-candles.html" target="_blank"> http://esmeraldus.blogspot.com/2006/01/its-not-as-though-the yre-big-candles.html</a>

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#228: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 04:46:07 by Stacie Hanes

Random C wrote:
&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&lt;Victorian corsets&gt;

&gt;&gt; The examples seen in museums, well, no one is completely sure why
&gt;&gt; those specimins were saved. It might be that they were
&gt;&gt; particularly petite or pretty.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt; In a lot of cases they would have been samples, made smaller than
&gt; the real thing, for showing to clients.

True.

&gt; I do not practice waist
&gt; training, and my corsets do not damage me or have any permanent
&gt; effect.

Corset *s*, multiple. Yes . . . You're my hero . . . I adore your
governess-y black dress, and if you make corsets, well. Got anything you
want criticised? Anyone you want turned into a frog, sort of thing?

I have some ideas I should probably e-mail....

&gt; At the last convention, having had a coughing fit while bent over
&gt; tying my boots, I managed to re-break a recently broken rib. I had
&gt; to stagger up to the Chaos room and get Teddy to lace me into my
&gt; corset so I could breathe without as much pain as the corset held
&gt; my rib in place.

Thank you. They're for health reasons.

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#229: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 05:20:30 by Flesh-eating Dragon

Anke wrote:

&gt; I remember reading about a study that revealed that the &quot;ideal
&gt; measurements&quot; used by the fashion industry assume a
&gt; hip-waist-bust size ratio that only 8% of the women really have.
&gt; Er, does anyone want to see if I can find the magazine? I think
&gt; it had a link to more info.

As many as 8%? The figure I've more often heard cited is 5% or less.

However, neither statistic means very much without comparing it to the
percentage of women who have the /most common/ ratio.

Adrian.

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#230: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 05:29:18 by Stacie Hanes

CeltiKaos wrote:
&gt; On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 17:55:22 +0000, Anastasia wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; &quot;The words 'cold' 'shower' and 'omigod' spring to mind :)&quot;
&gt;
&gt; As that was my reaction, I hope you weren't offended.

Well, the corset's an orthotic device, and the leather trousers are for
durability and lower back support . . . it *is* rather cruel of you to mock
my health issues in public.

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#231: Re: [I] Yarns // was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 06:18:01 by Flesh-eating Dragon

Anastasia wrote:

&gt; Of course not. One of my favorite gifts, although it didn't come from an SO,
&gt; is a ball of teal-colored yarn.

The following is quoted from the introduction to &quot;Yarns from All
Around Australia&quot; by Mike Hayes.

&quot;The question 'What's the difference between a yarn and a joke?' is
a common enough one, which seems to arise whenever people make the
unforgivable mistake of starting to discuss yarns seriously. To do
that is in itself a bit of a joke (rather than a yarn).
It's a bugger to answer succinctly, and, invariably the sort of
atmosphere you're in when confronted with it is often sullied
somewhat by the presence of a strong drink. As a result, whenever
I'm asked that bugger of a question, I invariably waffle. Now,
because there are undoubtedly hard-nosed folklorists out there who
take all this sort of stuff serously, this is the time for me to
translate such waffle into ... ummm, well, something. So, to keep
academia and the folkies happy ... both yarns and jokes have a
common goal - to amuse. They both have other common elements, too
- they improve with the individual's telling; they grow in stature
with the use of such clever tricks as exaggeration and lies; and a
teller can justifiably claim authorship simply by adding a few of
his or her own personal touches.
Where jokes and yarns differ is in the /psychology/ motivating
them. A joke is a more selfish creation. The teller is really
saying 'Look how funny I am. Laugh at me.' Yarn spinners are more
sharing. They want you to be part of their story. They want you to
know the people involved, like (they claim) they do. They're
saying 'Look how funny so-and-so was.' While yarn spinners inject
part of themselves into their tales, they rarely play the hero.
Their subject does that. Good yarns tend to have a punchline - an
outcome or some point - but, because the tellers aren't trying to
prove how hilarious they are, it's not so important. Therefore
yarns can be sad, emotional and self-depreciating and still amuse
and entertain, because 'amuse' doesn't necessarily mean leaving
your audience in stitches. A stand-up comedian without a punchline
or without laughs is a disaster. A yarn spinner can get away with
it ... at least for a while.&quot;

But how does one of those get to be teal-coloured? ;-)

Adrian.

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#232: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 07:24:01 by Stacie Hanes

SteveD wrote:
&gt; On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 18:44:14 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Okay, now I have found the picture of my custom-fitted corset. As

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; I like the casual stance, and how it's visually and perceptually
&gt; offset by the Rolling Stone cover at the top right.

At least part of that was on purpose. The hair, not so much.

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#233: Re: [I] Business attire (was: Re: - Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-07 09:14:19 by Mike Stevens

James Mitchelhill wrote:

&gt; This is because someone who needs to be part of a business community
&gt; (or has to appear to be) needs to present the right image, which means
&gt; conforming to the standard uniform. While the hyper-successful blokes
&gt; tend to need to present an image of not conforming, to maintain their
&gt; illusion of being ahead and apart from the crowd.
&gt;
&gt; Both are uniforms. Both have very similar purposes.

Before I retired, the clothes I wore to work varied from day to day
depending on what level of formality was appropriate to that day's
activities. I regarded the clothes as rather like a stage costume - I
chose whetever I felt best projected the image I wanted that day, from a
full three-piece suit with white shirt &amp; the tie of the organisation I
worked for, down through various levels of informality.


--
Mike Stevens
narrowboat Felis Catus III
web-site www.mike-stevens.co.uk

No man is an island. So is Man.

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#234: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 09:41:31 by mcv

SteveD &lt;<a href="mailto:usenet&#64;vo.id.au" target="_blank">usenet&#64;vo.id.au</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; On 06 Jul 2006 13:27:33 GMT, mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;Paul Harman &lt;<a href="mailto:chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net" target="_blank">chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; The things people (especially women) do to themselves for the sake of
&gt;&gt;&gt; fashion...
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;What about men? They wear ties! Men have no business complaining about
&gt;&gt;women's fashion as long as they wear a tie.
&gt;
&gt; People still wear ties?
&gt;
&gt; What I find amusing is that men who need other people to maintain their
&gt; power base - politicians, CEOs of publically-listed companies etc - are
&gt; almost never seen without a tie (except in very carefully constructed
&gt; photo-ops).

In Netherland, the recently elected new leader of the conservative
'liberals' (they're not very liberal IMO) usually appears tieless.
The leader of the 'social' democrats is always tieless, except when
he visits the queen. In the 'christian' democrats, all men of
importance wear ties (but women don't). With the smaller parties,
it usually depends on how conservative they are.

&gt; Bill Gates wears them when he's shilling for Microsoft, but not when he's
&gt; doing his own thing. I can't remember the last time I saw Richard Branson
&gt; wearing one, if ever. The stereotypical 'rich bloke relaxing at home'
&gt; outfit is often a polo shirt and pullover (probably costing about fifty
&gt; times the local department-store equivalent, but the style is the same),
&gt; with casual trousers.
&gt;
&gt; Ties seem to be for hiding behind more than anything else.

Probably. I think it's also a matter of confidence and taste. Richard
Branson seems like a relaxed kind of guy, Bill Gates not so much.


mcv.

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#235: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 11:03:26 by Lister

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 21:28:12 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Lister wrote:
&gt;&gt; On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 07:23:43 +1000, SteveD &lt;<a href="mailto:usenet&#64;vo.id.au" target="_blank">usenet&#64;vo.id.au</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 18:44:14 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; [snip]
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Front:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/Nudes/1stcorsetpic.jpg" target="_blank"> http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/Nudes/1stc orsetpic.jpg</a>
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I like the casual stance, and how it's visually and perceptually
&gt;&gt;&gt; offset by the Rolling Stone cover at the top right.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Why is the directory called &quot;nudes&quot;?
&gt;
&gt;Because there are nude and scantily clad pictures in it.
&gt;
&gt;Ask a silly question...get a perfectly serious answer, in this case. I
&gt;takepictures and make photomanipulation art. lot of tem aren't what you'd
&gt;call fully clothed, since I'm not a fashion photographer and IMO bodies are
&gt;more interesting than most articles of clothing.
&gt;


So you manipulate breasts and penni?

How odd

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#236: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 11:05:48 by Lister

On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 03:29:18 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;CeltiKaos wrote:
&gt;&gt; On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 17:55:22 +0000, Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;The words 'cold' 'shower' and 'omigod' spring to mind :)&quot;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; As that was my reaction, I hope you weren't offended.
&gt;
&gt;Well, the corset's an orthotic device, and the leather trousers are for
&gt;durability and lower back support . . . it *is* rather cruel of you to mock
&gt;my health issues in public.
&gt;


Oh, didn't reasise you had a bad back

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#237: Re: [I] Business attire

Posted on 2006-07-07 11:20:11 by esmi

on 07/07/2006 08:14 Mike Stevens said the following:

&gt; Before I retired, the clothes I wore to work varied from day to day
&gt; depending on what level of formality was appropriate to that day's
&gt; activities.

You are me and ICM5Ukp! Well apart from the 'retired' bit. Some of us
are still slaving.

&gt; I regarded the clothes as rather like a stage costume - I
&gt; chose whetever I felt best projected the image I wanted that day, from a
&gt; full three-piece suit with white shirt &amp; the tie of the organisation I
&gt; worked for, down through various levels of informality.

For my part, it helps that there isn't a specific uniform for the
organisation I work for and I actually own said organisation but there
are distinct types of attire depending the people I might be meeting
with. I've found that an over-formal image in the wrong situation is
just as bad as being too informal and that it tends to boil down to
dressing to project the image that the client is looking for.

--
esmi

A Brief Guide to alt.fan.pratchett:
<a href="http://www.blackwidows.co.uk/afp-guide/" target="_blank">http://www.blackwidows.co.uk/afp-guide/</a>

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#238: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 11:38:35 by Paul Harman

&quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:IAcrg.4066$<a href="mailto:ye3.736&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net..." target="_blank">ye3.736&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...</a>
&gt; The one I was wearing in that picture (since it's now relevant [1]) is
&gt; quite comfortable.

The one to which I was referring was the one that was clearly about to split
Random C in half:

<a href="http://pics.livejournal.com/random_c/pic/00006ech" target="_blank">http://pics.livejournal.com/random_c/pic/00006ech</a>

I hope you appreciate that, because I was nearly sick looking at it again to
make sure it was the right link :*/

Paul

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#239: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 11:40:32 by Paul Harman

&quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:2Scrg.4070$<a href="mailto:ye3.2794&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net..." target="_blank">ye3.2794&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...</a>
&gt; Front:
&gt; <a href="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/Nudes/1stcorsetpic.jpg" target="_blank"> http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/esmeraldus/Nudes/1stc orsetpic.jpg</a>
&gt; [...]
&gt; In that pic, I'm not actually being squeezed at all. That's pretty much
&gt; how I'm shaped. Note the bag. That complicated string arrangement is in
&gt; fact the ultimate in adjustable fit.


That looks fabulous.

Paul

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#240: Re: [I] Business attire (was: Re: - Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-07 11:46:01 by Paul Harman

&quot;James Mitchelhill&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:james&#64;disorderfeed.net" target="_blank">james&#64;disorderfeed.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:e8yyzvxo01ir$<a href="mailto:.1rrkecelsesoa.dlg&#64;40tude.net..." target="_blank">.1rrkecelsesoa.dlg&#64;40tude.net...</a>
&gt; Ties are for projecting the image of being the kind of man who wears a
&gt; tie. Wearing one doesn't mean you're professional, but it does mean you
&gt; care enough about appearing professional to bother, which is a kind of
&gt; professionalism in itself.


Exactly. I'm a software developer, but am commonly in meetings with people
who judge at first appearance, and so I wear a smart suit and tie. I do it
regularly enough that I own shirts, suits and ties that actually fit, and
I'm perfectly at ease in them.

Other people's attitudes to you change entirely according to what you wear -
certainly until they know you well. And in fact I find I work better if I'm
in my suit, because dressing in the morning sets me up in the right frame of
mind for the day.

Paul

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#241: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 11:47:34 by Paul Harman

&quot;mcv&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:44ae102b$0$31637$<a href="mailto:e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl..." target="_blank">e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl...</a>
&gt; The leader of the 'social' democrats is always tieless, except when
&gt; he visits the queen. In the 'christian' democrats, all men of
&gt; importance wear ties (but women don't). With the smaller parties,
&gt; it usually depends on how conservative they are.


Women should not wear ties. There's something rather provocative about that.
Perhaps I've just been indoctrinated by too many &quot;Skool Disko&quot; nightclub
posters.

Paul

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#242: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 11:57:42 by Paul Harman

&quot;T.M. Sommers&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:tms&#64;nj.net" target="_blank">tms&#64;nj.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:44adc132$0$12730$<a href="mailto:470ef3ce&#64;news.pa.net..." target="_blank">470ef3ce&#64;news.pa.net...</a>
&gt; Igors, of course, are programmed in Lisp.


Oh, well played };*)

Paul

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#243: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 12:13:01 by PeterH

It all started on Thu, 06 Jul 2006 22:32:10 +0000, when Random C wrote:

&gt; Peter Davies wrote:

&gt;&gt; Whose ideal body? Yours, or someone else's? If not yours, then the
&gt;&gt; corset makes you look artificial. AND - either way - after a few minutes
&gt;&gt; of wearing the thing, you get all out of breath and red in the face.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; In other words, may as well just do some exercise.
&gt;&gt;
&gt; Actually, no, I don't. And no amount of exercise - most of which is rather
&gt; painful for me, given my iffy knees - will make me *that* shape.

Yes. That's a plus, in my opinion. The more like you[1] you look, the more
attractive I am likely to find you (should you happen to care...).


...PeterH

[1] Note to all ladies - and gents - that's a generic you.

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#244: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 12:42:31 by aqusenet

Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; Random C wrote:
&gt; &gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt; &lt;Victorian corsets&gt;
&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; The examples seen in museums, well, no one is completely sure why
&gt; &gt;&gt; those specimins were saved. It might be that they were
&gt; &gt;&gt; particularly petite or pretty.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt; In a lot of cases they would have been samples, made smaller than
&gt; &gt; the real thing, for showing to clients.
&gt;
&gt; True.
&gt;
&gt; &gt; I do not practice waist
&gt; &gt; training, and my corsets do not damage me or have any permanent
&gt; &gt; effect.
&gt;
&gt; Corset *s*, multiple. Yes . . . You're my hero . . . I adore your
&gt; governess-y black dress, and if you make corsets, well. Got anything you
&gt; want criticised? Anyone you want turned into a frog, sort of thing?
&gt;
&gt; I have some ideas I should probably e-mail....

Great. Now not only does Random have another Minion, but a Minion with
her own Minions...

--
'q

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#245: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 13:24:18 by the Tinfoil Hat of Reason

On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 11:27:18 +1000, a collection of particles arranged in
such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as SteveD,
influenced tha intarweb to propagate the following:

&gt; On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 19:09:55 -0400, &quot;Arthur Hagen&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt;
&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;No, no! Then the *women* will wear them too! They, of course, should
&gt;&gt;wear something gravity-defying, skin-tight, shiny and not too durable.
&gt;
&gt; ...tinfoil stockings?

ObObvious: Tinfoil hats?

&lt;g,d&amp;rvvf&gt;

C:\&gt;
--
&quot;Where do want to go today?&quot; &quot;I'm thinking <a href="http://gentoo.org" target="_blank">http://gentoo.org</a>&quot;

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#246: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 13:33:36 by mcv

Paul Harman &lt;<a href="mailto:chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net" target="_blank">chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; Women should not wear ties.

Neither should men.


mcv.

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#247: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 13:34:30 by the Tinfoil Hat of Reason

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 20:54:33 +1000, a collection of particles arranged in
such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as mcv, influenced
tha intarweb to propagate the following:

&gt; the Tinfoil Hat of Reason &lt;<a href="mailto:ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh" target="_blank">ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 05:37:03 +1000, a collection of particles arranged
&gt;&gt; in such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as mcv,
&gt;&gt; influenced tha intarweb to propagate the following:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; [---8&lt;---]
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; A kilt, now *that's* proper men's clothing.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; [---8&lt;---]
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; They might not be canon, but <a href="http://utilikilts.com" target="_blank">http://utilikilts.com</a> is where I found
&gt;&gt; mine.
&gt;
&gt; I got my black standard neotraditional there. I plan to buy a workman's
&gt; or survivor kilt soon.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; mcv.

Unfortunately my SO is quite unhappy with my wearing my Black Original
and finding a replacement would be such hard work&lt;/sexist bastard&gt;. I met
her after aquiring the kilt, so I'm working gently here...
C:\&gt;
--
&quot;Where do want to go today?&quot; &quot;I'm thinking <a href="http://gentoo.org" target="_blank">http://gentoo.org</a>&quot;

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#248: Re: [I] Business attire (was: Re: - Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-07 13:49:42 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 07 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: &quot;Mike Stevens&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:michael.stevens&#64;which.net" target="_blank">michael.stevens&#64;which.net</a>&gt;

&gt; Before I retired, the clothes I wore to work varied from
&gt; day to day depending on what level of formality was
&gt; appropriate to that day's activities.

My mum was tongue-in-cheek shocked that I didn't need to wear
a collared shirt to work. &quot;But, Mum,&quot; I said, &quot;It's not like
the customers are going to see me or anything. I'm in a big
book warehouse on the other side of town to the actual
library!&quot;

Apparently, when *she* worked for the library service, that
wasn't an excuse...

My care over what I wear to work is limited to a) clean and b)
visible sf content limited to a single discreet logo.

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#249: Re: -I- Jewelry // was -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 13:56:34 by sphira9343

8'FED wrote:

&gt; I was websurfing recently and happened upon these:
&gt;
&gt; <a href="http://www.thepapercraneorigami.com/ear.html" target="_blank">http://www.thepapercraneorigami.com/ear.html</a>
&gt;
&gt; especially: <a href="http://www.thepapercraneorigami.com/ear3.html" target="_blank">http://www.thepapercraneorigami.com/ear3.html</a>

Those are nice. And they made me think those four little words... &quot;I
could make those!&quot;
CCA

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#250: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 14:16:40 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 07 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: <a href="mailto:aqusenet&#64;mailinator.com" target="_blank">aqusenet&#64;mailinator.com</a> (Aquarion)

&gt; Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;&gt; Corset *s*, multiple. Yes . . . You're my hero . . .

&gt; Great. Now not only does Random have another Minion, but a
&gt; Minion with her own Minions...

Many years ago, on another newsgroup, someone toyed with the
phrase &quot;Random's Commandos&quot;. That would fit Stacie rather
well, IMO.

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#251: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 14:31:39 by Arthur Hagen

Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Arthur Hagen wrote:
&gt;&gt; Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I takepictures and make photomanipulation art.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; AndIpresume you do that in... zer dungeon?
&gt;
&gt; If you believe peachy, I do just about everything in a dungeon, since
&gt; my apartment is decorated in &quot;late-period opera ghost.&quot;

.... and if I don't believe peachy, it would be foolish to say so here, where
she could read it...

Regards,
--
*Art

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#252: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 14:33:20 by Arthur Hagen

Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; my apartment is decorated in &quot;late-period opera ghost.&quot;
&gt;
&gt; <a href="http://esmeraldus.blogspot.com/2006/01/its-not-as-though-theyre-big-candles.html" target="_blank"> http://esmeraldus.blogspot.com/2006/01/its-not-as-though-the yre-big-candles.html</a>

&quot;What hath iron wrought?&quot;

--
*Art

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#253: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 14:34:10 by mcv

the Tinfoil Hat of Reason &lt;<a href="mailto:ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh" target="_blank">ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 20:54:33 +1000, a collection of particles arranged in
&gt; such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as mcv, influenced
&gt; tha intarweb to propagate the following:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; the Tinfoil Hat of Reason &lt;<a href="mailto:ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh" target="_blank">ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 05:37:03 +1000, a collection of particles arranged
&gt;&gt;&gt; in such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as mcv,
&gt;&gt;&gt; influenced tha intarweb to propagate the following:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; [---8&lt;---]
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; A kilt, now *that's* proper men's clothing.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; [---8&lt;---]
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; They might not be canon, but <a href="http://utilikilts.com" target="_blank">http://utilikilts.com</a> is where I found
&gt;&gt;&gt; mine.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I got my black standard neotraditional there. I plan to buy a workman's
&gt;&gt; or survivor kilt soon.
&gt;
&gt; Unfortunately my SO is quite unhappy with my wearing my Black Original
&gt; and finding a replacement would be such hard work&lt;/sexist bastard&gt;. I met
&gt; her after aquiring the kilt, so I'm working gently here...

You could buy that leather sex god kilt and see if that helps.


mcv.

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#254: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 15:32:38 by dicconf

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:MPG.1f179f4b81c2f95f989d45&#64;news.individual.net" target="_blank">MPG.1f179f4b81c2f95f989d45&#64;news.individual.net</a>&gt;,
Alec Cawley &lt;<a href="mailto:alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk" target="_blank">alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a> says...
&gt;&gt; mcv wrote:
&gt;&gt; &gt; Alec Cawley &lt;<a href="mailto:alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk" target="_blank">alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; [1]The whole ensemble probably acted as a very effective chastity
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; belt, becasue it would take many minutes and skilled assistance to
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; get out of, and any attempt to rip the clothe of passionately
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; would probably result in knots that would require a needlewoman to
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; get out of.
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; Dresses are open from below.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; And it was actually the advent of the rather tip-over-able dressess of the
&gt;&gt; middle and later Vic. period that requires bloomers, because if you triped,
&gt;&gt; your dress went over your head. No mention made in that source about what
&gt;&gt; they wore underneath before the famous tippable crinolines.
&gt;
&gt;I think the point of the Folies Bergeres (= Shepherdess follies), where
&gt;the can-can was invented, was that country girls such as shepherdesses
&gt;were known for not owning underwear. Of course, for the wall posters,
&gt;they added underwear.

I am informed by those who study 18th and 19th century costume that
the female leg-coverings of the era often were lacking the center seam,
so that relieving oneself was simplified. The underwear visible on the
posters may have been there, but would not necessarily have obstructed
the view.

=Tamar

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#255: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 16:08:26 by dicconf

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:MPG.1f179eacd1095336989d44&#64;news.individual.net" target="_blank">MPG.1f179eacd1095336989d44&#64;news.individual.net</a>&gt;,
Alec Cawley &lt;<a href="mailto:alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk" target="_blank">alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;In article &lt;<a href="mailto:3huqa21f7k0eavusjudrm3rfotqtrjjmv6&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">3huqa21f7k0eavusjudrm3rfotqtrjjmv6&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;, <a href="mailto:usenet&#64;vo.id.au" target="_blank">usenet&#64;vo.id.au</a>
&gt;says...
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I'm still surprised that no-one has invented the automatic clothes-making
&gt;&gt; machine. I know there's some automation in mass production, but is there
&gt;&gt; any kind of garment which is regularly taken from raw bolts of material to
&gt;&gt; finished product without any kind of human intervention?
&gt;
&gt;Assembly generally incolves such complex shapes and movements that
&gt;humans are still better than machines. Cutting out is nearly all done by
&gt;machines. I think socks are knitted by machines in a single operation.

The seam across the toes is still sewn by a human. (The system is: tube for
leg, bend in tube for heel, tube for foot, bend in tube for toe done just like
a heel, sew open side of toe onto open side of tube.)

=Tamar

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#256: Re: [I] Business attire (was: Re: - Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-07 18:53:19 by Stacie Hanes

Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:

&gt; My care over what I wear to work is limited to a) clean and b)
&gt; visible sf content limited to a single discreet logo.

I was thinking &quot;what a charming and telling thing to take care over,&quot; until
I realized that my unwritten rule was &quot;no more than one black leather item
or *interesting* accessory at a time&quot;

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#257: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 19:16:57 by alec

In article &lt;1hi2gum.1hzrnbenu1bxtN%<a href="mailto:nomail&#64;nomail.com" target="_blank">nomail&#64;nomail.com</a>&gt;, <a href="mailto:nomail&#64;nomail.com" target="_blank">nomail&#64;nomail.com</a>
says...
&gt; I'ld vote for you for dictator, except that I secretly want John
&gt; Lassiter in that position. Hawaiian shirts for everyone!

Which makes the one guy who wears a snappy black shirt look incredibly
cool.

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#258: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 19:21:26 by alec

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:13vqa21d721k05e2k4revh37lienol3lfg&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">13vqa21d721k05e2k4revh37lienol3lfg&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;, <a href="mailto:usenet&#64;vo.id.au" target="_blank">usenet&#64;vo.id.au</a>
says...

&gt; People still wear ties?
&gt;
&gt; What I find amusing is that men who need other people to maintain their
&gt; power base - politicians, CEOs of publically-listed companies etc - are
&gt; almost never seen without a tie (except in very carefully constructed
&gt; photo-ops). Whereas hyper-successful blokes who aren't dependent on anyone
&gt; else's opinion are quite often tie-less.
&gt;
&gt; Bill Gates wears them when he's shilling for Microsoft, but not when he's
&gt; doing his own thing. I can't remember the last time I saw Richard Branson
&gt; wearing one, if ever. The stereotypical 'rich bloke relaxing at home'
&gt; outfit is often a polo shirt and pullover (probably costing about fifty
&gt; times the local department-store equivalent, but the style is the same),
&gt; with casual trousers.
&gt;
&gt; Ties seem to be for hiding behind more than anything else.

But they still convey a message. Bill Gates and Richard Branson don't
need to wear them because they are Bill Gates and Richard Branson. But
if for ordinary mortals, you don't wear them, and with some exceptions
in the IT industry[1], wearing a tie marks you as a serious person.

I once went to an exhibition with a colleague. I wore a smart pullover,
he wore a suit and tie. Whenever I asked a question, the salesman faced
my colleague when giving the answer. Because I wasn't wearing a tie, it
was assumed that he was the manager with potential perchasing authority
and I the techie sidekick. The reamity was that we were efffectively
equal, with myself perhaps slightly the senior. But how was the salesman
to know that? Both our job titles were equal &quot;senior technical person&quot;
bullshit. So he used the only evidence he had to judge the status of two
strangers: their clothing.

[1]Many years ago, IBM and Apple agreed to set up a joint software
venture, as an anti-Microsift coalition (it was just after IBM had split
from Microsoft over OS/2). This was negotiated by Senior Management, who
then told their respective middle managments to Make It Happen. A
meeting was set up. All the Apple people thouth &quot;My GOd - IDBM&quot; qand
dashed out and bought dark suits. All the IBM people thought &quot;My God -
Apple&quot; and dug out their polo shirs and casual slacks. So the meeting
took place with inverted dress codes.

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#259: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 19:40:49 by alec

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:4h6ottF1q9jpgU1&#64;individual.net" target="_blank">4h6ottF1q9jpgU1&#64;individual.net</a>&gt;,
<a href="mailto:chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net" target="_blank">chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net</a> says...
&gt; &quot;mcv&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:44ae102b$0$31637$<a href="mailto:e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl..." target="_blank">e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl...</a>
&gt; &gt; The leader of the 'social' democrats is always tieless, except when
&gt; &gt; he visits the queen. In the 'christian' democrats, all men of
&gt; &gt; importance wear ties (but women don't). With the smaller parties,
&gt; &gt; it usually depends on how conservative they are.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Women should not wear ties. There's something rather provocative about that.
&gt; Perhaps I've just been indoctrinated by too many &quot;Skool Disko&quot; nightclub
&gt; posters.

It is intentionally provocative. And usually worn with suits cut to
exaggerate the feminine form. It means &quot;I, a woman, am invading your
territiry, but remaining womany. What are you going to do about it?&quot;

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#260: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 19:47:20 by Peter Ellis

On Fri, 7 Jul 2006, Alec Cawley wrote:
&gt;
&gt; It is intentionally provocative. And usually worn with suits cut to
&gt; exaggerate the feminine form. It means &quot;I, a woman, am invading your
&gt; territiry, but remaining womany. What are you going to do about it?&quot;

&quot;Invade you right back while remaining manly. Hubba hubba.&quot;

?

Peter

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#261: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 20:08:31 by James Mitchelhill

On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 12:13:01 +0200, Peter Davies wrote:

&gt; It all started on Thu, 06 Jul 2006 22:32:10 +0000, when Random C wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Peter Davies wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Whose ideal body? Yours, or someone else's? If not yours, then the
&gt;&gt;&gt; corset makes you look artificial. AND - either way - after a few minutes
&gt;&gt;&gt; of wearing the thing, you get all out of breath and red in the face.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; In other words, may as well just do some exercise.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Actually, no, I don't. And no amount of exercise - most of which is rather
&gt;&gt; painful for me, given my iffy knees - will make me *that* shape.
&gt;
&gt; Yes. That's a plus, in my opinion. The more like you[1] you look, the more
&gt; attractive I am likely to find you (should you happen to care...).

An image of being unmodified and original is just as constructed as an
image of adornment and glamour. And probably just as much work to
project.

--
James Mitchelhill
<a href="mailto:james&#64;disorderfeed.net" target="_blank">james&#64;disorderfeed.net</a>
<a href="http://disorderfeed.net" target="_blank">http://disorderfeed.net</a>

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#262: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 21:00:22 by Eric Jarvis

Ed Weatherup <a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a> wrote in
&lt;<a href="mailto:4h5ch9F1q42jhU1&#64;individual.net" target="_blank">4h5ch9F1q42jhU1&#64;individual.net</a>&gt;:
&gt; Aquarion wrote:
&gt; &gt; Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; And now you've had the full afpexperience. This is more what we're
&gt; &gt;&gt; fam . . . notorious for than flaming each other to crisps.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Mmm. crisps.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Actually, we missed the bread.
&gt;
&gt; No one has mentioned the marmite ...
&gt;

TINM

Those are not black helicopters, they are entirely a figment of your
imagination. Please return to your homes. There is nothing to see here.

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
&quot;a tin foil hat is not just for Christmas&quot;

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#263: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 21:56:44 by Stacie Hanes

Aquarion wrote:

&gt; Great. Now not only does Random have another Minion, but a Minion
&gt; with her own Minions...

I'm not a minion, I'm an admiring ally. And Random is one of those high-end
sort that makes me wonder if there's a place for in the Organization.
Seamstress to the Empire....

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#264: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 22:02:44 by Stacie Hanes

Alec Cawley wrote:
&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:4h6ottF1q9jpgU1&#64;individual.net" target="_blank">4h6ottF1q9jpgU1&#64;individual.net</a>&gt;,
&gt; <a href="mailto:chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net" target="_blank">chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net</a> says...
&gt;&gt; &quot;mcv&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt;&gt; news:44ae102b$0$31637$<a href="mailto:e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl..." target="_blank">e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl...</a>
&gt;&gt;&gt; The leader of the 'social' democrats is always tieless, except
&gt;&gt;&gt; when he visits the queen. In the 'christian' democrats, all men of
&gt;&gt;&gt; importance wear ties (but women don't). With the smaller parties,
&gt;&gt;&gt; it usually depends on how conservative they are.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Women should not wear ties. There's something rather provocative
&gt;&gt; about that. Perhaps I've just been indoctrinated by too many
&gt;&gt; &quot;Skool Disko&quot; nightclub posters.
&gt;
&gt; It is intentionally provocative. And usually worn with suits cut to
&gt; exaggerate the feminine form. It means &quot;I, a woman, am invading your
&gt; territiry, but remaining womany. What are you going to do about it?&quot;

I have intensely wanted, but not been able to commission (for that's what I
think it would take) a real tuxedo (lightweight) tailored for my shape. I
love tuxedos, but a man's version makes me look shorter that I already am,
which is pretty short: 5'4&quot;.

The tux is the ultimate in men's formalwear, and I look very good in the
near approximations I've been able to whip together, but I really really
want a real one. It amuses me in a dozen different ways playing with the
gender barrier like that.

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#265: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 22:13:22 by Anke

Alec Cawley wrote:
&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:4h6ottF1q9jpgU1&#64;individual.net" target="_blank">4h6ottF1q9jpgU1&#64;individual.net</a>&gt;,
&gt; <a href="mailto:chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net" target="_blank">chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net</a> says...
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Women should not wear ties. There's something rather
&gt; &gt; provocative about that. Perhaps I've just been indoctrinated
&gt; &gt; by too many &quot;Skool Disko&quot; nightclub posters.
&gt;
&gt; It is intentionally provocative. And usually worn with suits cut
&gt; to exaggerate the feminine form. It means &quot;I, a woman, am
&gt; invading your territiry, but remaining womany. What are you
&gt; going to do about it?&quot;

Wear a plain skirt instead of trousers?

Anke

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#266: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 22:32:15 by Anke

James Mitchelhill wrote:
&gt;
&gt; An image of being unmodified and original is just as
&gt; constructed as an image of adornment and glamour.
&gt; And probably just as much work to project.

What gives you that idea?
Dropping daily hairdressing and putting on makeup
already saves time and work.
Then consider getting your hair cut only when it gets
in your way, instead of regularly, and maybe dropping
dying hair, too, that saves time and money.
I'd like to comment on buying clothes, but since I do it
as little as possible I don't really have a realistic idea
of what it entails for people who like it/use their clothes
to consciously construct some kind of image.

Really, I wear what I wear because *I like it*[1], not
because I think keeping up a complex act whenever I
leave my room would be fun.

Anke

[1] OK, There are some considerations as to
fashion/other people even I make. Picking colours that
don't clash too badly, mostly.

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#267: -I- Fashion and non-fashion (was: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-07 22:58:04 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 07 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: &quot;Anke&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:anke.wehner&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">anke.wehner&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt;

&gt;
&gt; James Mitchelhill wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; An image of being unmodified and original is just as
&gt;&gt; constructed as an image of adornment and glamour.
&gt;&gt; And probably just as much work to project.
&gt;
&gt; What gives you that idea?
&gt; Dropping daily hairdressing and putting on makeup
&gt; already saves time and work.
&gt; Then consider getting your hair cut only when it gets
&gt; in your way, instead of regularly, and maybe dropping
&gt; dying hair, too, that saves time and money.
&gt; I'd like to comment on buying clothes, but since I do it
&gt; as little as possible I don't really have a realistic idea
&gt; of what it entails for people who like it/use their clothes
&gt; to consciously construct some kind of image.
&gt;
&gt; Really, I wear what I wear because *I like it*[1], not
&gt; because I think keeping up a complex act whenever I
&gt; leave my room would be fun.

I would agree with you, but in all honesty it isn't true.
Every part of my standard outfit, from top (I need to stock up
on more sci-fi baseball caps soon) to toe (non-brand trainers,
preferably scuffed and with the laces fraying; I feel really
self-concious in new ones) is chosen, semi-subconciously, to
project an image of extreme geekiness (except, as mentioned
elsewhere in this thread, when I'm working, when I go for mild
geekiness).

I could argue that this isn't an &quot;act&quot;; I really *am* an
example of extreme geekiness, but that's a bit disingenous as
well. There's more to me than being a geek, but the geek is
the aspect I know how people react to, therefore it's the bit
I send into social situations.

A radio programme a while ago said that, in general, people
who say (as I used to, before I thought about it) &quot;Oh, I don't
bother about what I wear as long as it's clean and fits&quot;[1]
actually spend *longer* deciding what to put on in the morning
than the fashion-obsessed. I can well believe that.

I do agree that dropping cutting your hair (if it gets in your
way you aren't tying it back tightly enough) is a significant
reduction in time and money, although I'm starting to wonder
if the effort involved in preventing it becoming a solid,
matted mass doesn't cancel it out...

[1]Actually, I used to think such people were really picky...

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#268: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 23:00:31 by tms

Anastasia wrote:
&gt;
&gt; The tux is the ultimate in men's formalwear,

A tuxedo is not formal. Top hat, white tie, and tails is formal.

--
Thomas M. Sommers -- <a href="mailto:tms&#64;nj.net" target="_blank">tms&#64;nj.net</a> -- AB2SB

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#269: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 23:02:48 by Stacie Hanes

T.M. Sommers wrote:
&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; The tux is the ultimate in men's formalwear,
&gt;
&gt; A tuxedo is not formal. Top hat, white tie, and tails is formal.

Are those not accessories to the tuxedo itself? Black tie being formal, and
white tie being *FORMAL*?

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#270: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-07 23:57:49 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 07 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: &quot;T.M. Sommers&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:tms&#64;nj.net" target="_blank">tms&#64;nj.net</a>&gt;

&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; The tux is the ultimate in men's formalwear,
&gt;
&gt; A tuxedo is not formal. Top hat, white tie, and tails is
&gt; formal.

Yes, but if you're going to do it *properly*, you need to
arrange music, backing dancers and someone to throw the hat
and cane to you...

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#271: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 01:04:49 by Arthur Hagen

Alec Cawley &lt;<a href="mailto:alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk" target="_blank">alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:4h6ottF1q9jpgU1&#64;individual.net" target="_blank">4h6ottF1q9jpgU1&#64;individual.net</a>&gt;,
&gt; <a href="mailto:chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net" target="_blank">chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net</a> says...
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Women should not wear ties. There's something rather provocative
&gt;&gt; about that. Perhaps I've just been indoctrinated by too many &quot;Skool
&gt;&gt; Disko&quot; nightclub posters.
&gt;
&gt; It is intentionally provocative. And usually worn with suits cut to
&gt; exaggerate the feminine form. It means &quot;I, a woman, am invading your
&gt; territiry, but remaining womany. What are you going to do about it?&quot;

Of course, the message received by the male mind might be &quot;I have penis
envy&quot;.

Regards,
--
*Art

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#272: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 01:09:17 by alec

In article &lt;E5zrg.4468$<a href="mailto:PE1.3207&#64;newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">PE1.3207&#64;newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a> says...

&gt; The tux is the ultimate in men's formalwear, and I look very good in the
&gt; near approximations I've been able to whip together, but I really really
&gt; want a real one. It amuses me in a dozen different ways playing with the
&gt; gender barrier like that.

Sorry, but the tux is definitely only penultimate in men's formalwear.
Once a year, in mid-June, I attend a dinner at which the required attire
for men is evening tails - cutaway tails, white waitcoat, shirt with
stickup collar, white bow tie.

Google gives me <a href="http://www.histuxedos.com/FormalWare/ellis5.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.histuxedos.com/FormalWare/ellis5.jpg</a> as an
example.

While the guy in that picture is obviously a model and looks pretty
spiffy, the outfit also does a good job of making those of less elegant
outline look acceptably well dressed.

(It is a damned good dinner, BTW).

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#273: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 01:11:47 by alec

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1152304335.728894.83170&#64;m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1152304335.728894.83170&#64;m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
<a href="mailto:anke.wehner&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">anke.wehner&#64;gmail.com</a> says...

&gt; Really, I wear what I wear because *I like it*[1], not
&gt; because I think keeping up a complex act whenever I
&gt; leave my room would be fun.

I throw on whatever is in the wardrobe, clean, and suitable for the
anticipated weather,

OTOH, whatever is in the wardrobe has been selected with at least a
little thought to what is &quot;my style&quot;.

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#274: Re: [I] -I- Metadoc measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 01:11:54 by FiX01

On Fri, 7 Jul 2006 08:28:20 +0930, &quot;8'FED&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:dragon&#64;netyp.com.au" target="_blank">dragon&#64;netyp.com.au</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;esmi sigged:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; A Brief Guide to alt.fan.pratchett:
&gt;&gt; <a href="http://www.blackwidows.co.uk/afp-guide/" target="_blank">http://www.blackwidows.co.uk/afp-guide/</a>
&gt;
&gt;Now THAT looks very familiar. :-)
&gt;
&gt;[For those that don't know - and that'll be the bulk of modern
&gt;afpers - it's the nth version of a document for which I wrote the
&gt;original draft. Various people have changed things, but it still
&gt;contains some of my original words. Long time ago, that was.]

But it still conatain huge inaccuracies:

&quot; In the real world, when you travel to different countries, you are
expected to make an effort to embrace the culture of the people around
you.&quot;

&lt;G&amp;D&gt;

FiX

--
&quot;[afp believes its] sensibilities are so refined that we
appreciate things that leave Joe and Josephine Q.
Public drooling with duh.&quot;
-April Goodwin-Smith

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#275: Re: [I] Business attire (was: Re: - Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-08 01:21:44 by FiX01

On Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:46:01 +0100, &quot;Paul Harman&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net" target="_blank">chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;&quot;James Mitchelhill&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:james&#64;disorderfeed.net" target="_blank">james&#64;disorderfeed.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt;news:e8yyzvxo01ir$<a href="mailto:.1rrkecelsesoa.dlg&#64;40tude.net..." target="_blank">.1rrkecelsesoa.dlg&#64;40tude.net...</a>
&gt;&gt; Ties are for projecting the image of being the kind of man who wears a
&gt;&gt; tie. Wearing one doesn't mean you're professional, but it does mean you
&gt;&gt; care enough about appearing professional to bother, which is a kind of
&gt;&gt; professionalism in itself.

&gt;Exactly. I'm a software developer, but am commonly in meetings with people
&gt;who judge at first appearance, and so I wear a smart suit and tie. I do it
&gt;regularly enough that I own shirts, suits and ties that actually fit, and
&gt;I'm perfectly at ease in them.

OTOH, I refuse to go to work dressed up, as this would signal that I
am looking for a job that requires such a uniform[1]. Which is not the
case at all: I'm currently doing all the administrative stuff I care
to do, and getting a new job description would mean getting *lots* of
new administrative stuff to manage.

There's fitting your garnment to your job, and stating that you're not
willing to take a job over by not wearing the uniform...

FiX

[1] management or PMO consultancy: there _are_ part of both jobs that
are shiny enough, but the amount of paperwork is staggering...

--
&quot;[afp believes its] sensibilities are so refined that we
appreciate things that leave Joe and Josephine Q.
Public drooling with duh.&quot;
-April Goodwin-Smith

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#276: Re: -I- Fashion and non-fashion (was: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-08 01:31:35 by FiX01

On 7 Jul 2006 20:58:04 GMT, Daibhid Ceanaideach
&lt;<a href="mailto:daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:

[...]
&gt;A radio programme a while ago said that, in general, people
&gt;who say (as I used to, before I thought about it) &quot;Oh, I don't
&gt;bother about what I wear as long as it's clean and fits&quot;[1]
&gt;actually spend *longer* deciding what to put on in the morning
&gt;than the fashion-obsessed. I can well believe that.

You mean there's a faster way of choosing your garnment than opening
your cupboard and taking the first shirt you can grab? Wow!

FiX


--
&quot;[afp believes its] sensibilities are so refined that we
appreciate things that leave Joe and Josephine Q.
Public drooling with duh.&quot;
-April Goodwin-Smith

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#277: Re: -C- (was {I}) Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 01:33:14 by FiX01

On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 22:10:00 +0100, &quot;Ed Weatherup&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Aquarion wrote:
&gt;&gt; Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; CeltiKaos wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 14:36:16 +0100, Orjan Westin wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; As everybody knows, a battery is a collection of big guns, hence
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the expressions &quot;Bring out the big guns&quot;, &quot;Nice cannons&quot;, &quot;Huge
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bazookas&quot;, and &quot;Pwoar, look at that rack&quot;.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So we go from corsets to batteries, to guns, various items of
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; military hardware, or euphemisms using such, back to the female
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; anatomy without passing Go, ending up in Jail, or collecting $200.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Nick trick! :)
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; And now you've had the full afpexperience. This is more what we're
&gt;&gt;&gt; fam . . . notorious for than flaming each other to crisps.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Mmm. crisps.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Actually, we missed the bread.
&gt;
&gt;No one has mentioned the marmite ...

And beer, and wine, and chocolate...

FiX
--
&quot;[afp believes its] sensibilities are so refined that we
appreciate things that leave Joe and Josephine Q.
Public drooling with duh.&quot;
-April Goodwin-Smith

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#278: Re: -I- Fashion and non-fashion (was: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-08 01:40:10 by Arthur Hagen

FiX &lt;<a href="mailto:FiX01&#64;club.lemonde.fr" target="_blank">FiX01&#64;club.lemonde.fr</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; You mean there's a faster way of choosing your garnment than opening
&gt; your cupboard and taking the first shirt you can grab? Wow!

You keep your shirts in the cupboard? *boggle*

Regards,
--
*Art

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#279: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 04:13:42 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:MPG.1f17857ce4a151f5989d43&#64;news.individual.net" target="_blank">MPG.1f17857ce4a151f5989d43&#64;news.individual.net</a>, Alec Cawley at
<a href="mailto:alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk" target="_blank">alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk</a> wrote on 06/07/2006 1:40 PM:

&gt; In article &lt;tPdrg.4097$<a href="mailto:ye3.4016&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">ye3.4016&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
&gt; <a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a> says...
&gt;&gt; Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; The time: 06 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
&gt;&gt;&gt; speaker: &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Can you tell this is one of the interstices of my personal
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and professional interests? :-D
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; It's not the same period, but am I right in thinking (based on
&gt;&gt;&gt; something I vaguely recall reading once) that in *Regency*
&gt;&gt;&gt; times posh women wore so much underwear because it was, in
&gt;&gt;&gt; fact, not exactly underwear as much as indoor-wear (i.e.they
&gt;&gt;&gt; would recieve visitors in nothing else, so it had to be modest
&gt;&gt;&gt; without a dress on top)?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I can't say for sure since I'm less familiar with the Regency period, but I
&gt;&gt; seriously doubt it. By the Victorian period, it was considered immodest for
&gt;&gt; one woman to see an inimate (female) friend in less than petticoats. Like I
&gt;&gt; said, it's an educated guess, with the emphasis on guess, but I do not think
&gt;&gt; women would have received visitors in their skivvies.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Other people who know more feel like piping up?
&gt;
&gt; I entirely concur with you on Victorian custom,
&gt;
&gt; However, as I recall, in France at the time we call Regency, it was not
&gt; uncommon for upper class ladies to receive guests of both sexes while
&gt; they were &quot;dressing&quot;. Which I think means that they were wearing vey
&gt; full underclothes of the sort that Daibhid describes, but having their
&gt; hair and makeup done,

Isn't that the origin of the dressing gown? An open-fronted dress that could
be wrapped around and tied modestly, worn over all the underwear while the
ladies' maid did one's hair (ladies didn't wear makeup, except scandalous
ladies of a certain age). Taking it off to put on the outer dress that the
world would see wouldn't disarrange the hair.

&gt;then being carefully laced into a complex multi-
&gt; layer outer clothing which, as you describe, requires the assistance of
&gt; a ladies maid to put on.[1]

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; [1]The whole ensemble probably acted as a very effective chastity belt,
&gt; becasue it would take many minutes and skilled assistance to get out of,
&gt; and any attempt to rip the clothe of passionately would probably result
&gt; in knots that would require a needlewoman to get out of.

It didn't seem to work all that well. Plenty of bastards among the upper
crust at that time.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#280: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 04:33:39 by Lesley Weston

in article YZzrg.4497$<a href="mailto:PE1.1638&#64;newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">PE1.1638&#64;newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>, Anastasia
at <a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a> wrote on 07/07/2006 2:02 PM:

&gt; T.M. Sommers wrote:
&gt;&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; The tux is the ultimate in men's formalwear,
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; A tuxedo is not formal. Top hat, white tie, and tails is formal.
&gt;
&gt; Are those not accessories to the tuxedo itself? Black tie being formal, and
&gt; white tie being *FORMAL*?
&gt;
&gt;
Tails is a tail coat, as in a grey morning coat suitable for wearing at
weddings, but for the evening it would be black and worn with a white
waistcoat and a white bow tie. It is more formal than a tux, which is aka a
dinner jacket [1]. Early Fred Astaire movies show him in tails.

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailcoat" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailcoat</a>

[1] For some reason, though it includes the trousers.



--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#281: Re: [I] Business attire (was: Re: - Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-08 04:46:00 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:4h6fufF1onhnmU1&#64;individual.net" target="_blank">4h6fufF1onhnmU1&#64;individual.net</a>, Mike Stevens at
<a href="mailto:michael.stevens&#64;which.net" target="_blank">michael.stevens&#64;which.net</a> wrote on 07/07/2006 12:14 AM:

&gt; James Mitchelhill wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; This is because someone who needs to be part of a business community
&gt;&gt; (or has to appear to be) needs to present the right image, which means
&gt;&gt; conforming to the standard uniform. While the hyper-successful blokes
&gt;&gt; tend to need to present an image of not conforming, to maintain their
&gt;&gt; illusion of being ahead and apart from the crowd.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Both are uniforms. Both have very similar purposes.
&gt;
&gt; Before I retired, the clothes I wore to work varied from day to day
&gt; depending on what level of formality was appropriate to that day's
&gt; activities. I regarded the clothes as rather like a stage costume - I
&gt; chose whetever I felt best projected the image I wanted that day, from a
&gt; full three-piece suit with white shirt &amp; the tie of the organisation I
&gt; worked for, down through various levels of informality.
&gt;
That used to work for me until the Elfin Safety people started nagging about
suitable wear for labs. Even then, in hot weather I still wore skirts and
sandals if I knew I was going to be doing paperwork or computer stuff or
harmless tissue-culture-type things that day, though I could never be sure
that a student wasn't going to ask for help with the liquid nitrogen tank
and cause me to acquire a burn on my foot where the strap of the sandal held
the spilled LN against my foot (only once, but it was quite painful). So
maybe the Safety Nazis had a point.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#282: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 05:15:56 by Arthur Hagen

Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; T.M. Sommers wrote:
&gt;&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; The tux is the ultimate in men's formalwear,
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; A tuxedo is not formal. Top hat, white tie, and tails is formal.
&gt;
&gt; Are those not accessories to the tuxedo itself? Black tie being
&gt; formal, and white tie being *FORMAL*?

No, court dress would be *FORMAL*.

For free men (as opposed to the peerage and functionaries), the only thing
trumping white tie and court dress are national costumes, which are always
appropriate when authentic and worn by someone entitled to wear them.

Regards,
--
*Art

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#283: Re: [I] -I- Fashion and non-fashion (was: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-08 05:41:58 by Flesh-eating Dragon

Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:
&gt; The speaker: &quot;Anke&quot;

&gt;&gt; Really, I wear what I wear because *I like it*[1], not
&gt;&gt; because I think keeping up a complex act whenever I
&gt;&gt; leave my room would be fun.
&gt;
&gt; I would agree with you, but in all honesty it isn't true.
&gt; Every part of my standard outfit, from top (I need to stock up
&gt; on more sci-fi baseball caps soon) to toe (non-brand trainers,
&gt; preferably scuffed and with the laces fraying; I feel really
&gt; self-concious in new ones) is chosen, semi-subconciously, to
&gt; project an image of extreme geekiness (except, as mentioned
&gt; elsewhere in this thread, when I'm working, when I go for mild
&gt; geekiness).

What I do is essentially to stare at my range of clean shirts and
trousers until one of them calls to me. If it's a shirt that calls to
me, I will then choose a pair of trousers that I consider to be colour
coordinated with it. If I can't find any, I choose another shirt. This
morning, I chose dark shirt and light trousers.

I don't think I choose an image when I dress, other than &quot;cares about
colour coordination&quot;. Pretty much everything in my range projects
roughly the _same_ image (which I regard as a &quot;neutral&quot; one, and would
be very hard pressed to say what it is except that it's not extreme
anything) and as such it's too constant to really count as a choice.
The time when I think about my image is when I buy new clothes, not
when I dress in clothes that I already have. And even then, I can't
define /what/ image I'm aiming to project, except as &quot;the same image
that I've always projected before&quot; or &quot;what's left over when you take
away all the images I /don't/ want to project&quot;.

Adrian.

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#284: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 05:44:51 by Stacie Hanes

Arthur Hagen wrote:
&gt; Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; T.M. Sommers wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The tux is the ultimate in men's formalwear,
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; A tuxedo is not formal. Top hat, white tie, and tails is formal.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Are those not accessories to the tuxedo itself? Black tie being
&gt;&gt; formal, and white tie being *FORMAL*?
&gt;
&gt; No, court dress would be *FORMAL*.
&gt;
&gt; For free men (as opposed to the peerage and functionaries), the
&gt; only thing trumping white tie and court dress are national
&gt; costumes, which are always appropriate when authentic and worn by
&gt; someone entitled to wear them.

Mmm. Bear in mind that my phrasing &quot;ultimate&quot; was vague. I didn't actually
say &quot;most formal.&quot;

I wouldn't have many places to wear white tie and tails--less than a tuxedo.
And it's definitely beside the point to go into national mens' costume, as
my purpose is for *me* to look good in it. There might be sosme I'd look
okay in, but I think Scottish mens' kit looks better on men.

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#285: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 07:03:07 by Arthur Hagen

Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; I wouldn't have many places to wear white tie and tails--less than a
&gt; tuxedo. And it's definitely beside the point to go into national
&gt; mens' costume, as my purpose is for *me* to look good in it.

If it's for you to wear, keep in mind that a tux on a woman would /never/ be
considered formal wear. Unless you were aiming to cause a scandal, I'd very
much advise against wearing a tux to an occasion where &quot;black tie&quot; is
specified.

Regards,
--
*Art

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#286: Re: -I- Fashion and non-fashion (was: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-08 07:17:30 by SteveD

On 7 Jul 2006 20:58:04 GMT, Daibhid Ceanaideach &lt;<a href="mailto:daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;A radio programme a while ago said that, in general, people
&gt;who say (as I used to, before I thought about it) &quot;Oh, I don't
&gt;bother about what I wear as long as it's clean and fits&quot;[1]
&gt;actually spend *longer* deciding what to put on in the morning
&gt;than the fashion-obsessed. I can well believe that.

As a counter-data-point, I'd be one of those people self-identifying as
one of the 'clean and fits' crowd, and my dressing routine consists of
grabbing whatever's on the top of each clothing-type pile in the closet.

I'm not quite sure I could spend *less* time deciding what to wear - I
walk up to the closet, rummage in the same set of shelves as every other
day, pull out the first thing my hand encounters, decision made. The day
someone puts a squeaky toy on top of my T-shirt pile, I'm going to walk
out of the house looking very silly indeed.


-SteveD

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#287: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 07:43:46 by John Duncan Yoyo

On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 02:32:26 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;CCA wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; *looks at surroundings, especially on the first photo*
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; That's a whole lot of Buffy you've got there! :-)
&gt;
&gt;It's my professional library--got to have the canonical texts handy, you
&gt;know.
&gt;
Look like mine would look - If I ever got them up on the shelves. They
would be with Babylon 5, CSI, Monk....
--
John Duncan Yoyo
------------------------------o)
Brought to you by the Binks for Senate campaign comittee.
Coruscant is far, far away from wesa on Naboo.

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#288: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 08:38:56 by mcv

Alec Cawley &lt;<a href="mailto:alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk" target="_blank">alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; But they still convey a message. Bill Gates and Richard Branson don't
&gt; need to wear them because they are Bill Gates and Richard Branson. But
&gt; if for ordinary mortals, you don't wear them, and with some exceptions
&gt; in the IT industry[1], wearing a tie marks you as a serious person.

At my job, dress code in summer is shorts and bare feet, basically.
Currently I've been placed with a bank, and they are notorious for
wearing suits and ties. Everybody everywhere. My boss told me to buy
a couple of shirts (no tie fortunately), but it turns out that quite
a lot of people at that IT department of the bank wear jeans and
poloshirts.

(But since my boss paid for my shirts, I wear them anyway.)


mcv.

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#289: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 09:04:27 by Stacie Hanes

Arthur Hagen wrote:
&gt; Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I wouldn't have many places to wear white tie and tails--less than
&gt;&gt; a tuxedo. And it's definitely beside the point to go into national
&gt;&gt; mens' costume, as my purpose is for *me* to look good in it.
&gt;
&gt; If it's for you to wear, keep in mind that a tux on a woman would
&gt; /never/ be considered formal wear. Unless you were aiming to cause
&gt; a scandal, I'd very much advise against wearing a tux to an
&gt; occasion where &quot;black tie&quot; is specified.

That's the sort of scandal I might enjoy. I think it's garbage. I wouldn't
want to ruin anyone's personal event, but I'd have no problems wearing a tux
to a public sort of thing.

I'm not sure I'm making myself clear, but the guidelines you have put on the
(I realize you're putting out information, it didn't seem to be a personal
thing) table offend me profoundly, and I'd break them good and hard if I
got the chance.Women aren't supposed to *marry* women, either. Which I
believe is a load of bullshit, and likewise for the tux.

I'd probably look like a boy anyway, so who cares? Sorry, that gets my
dander up.

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#290: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 10:20:50 by jester

On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 07:04:27 GMT, Anastasia
&lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;I'm not sure I'm making myself clear, but the guidelines you have put on the
&gt;(I realize you're putting out information, it didn't seem to be a personal
&gt;thing) table offend me profoundly, and I'd break them good and hard if I
&gt;got the chance.Women aren't supposed to *marry* women, either. Which I
&gt;believe is a load of bullshit, and likewise for the tux.

Agreed, strongly.
And there's some of us filed under 'M' who object to having to wear the
tux to that sort of thing.

--
Andy Brown
Goto, n.:
A programming tool that exists to allow structured programmers
to complain about unstructured programmers. -- Ray Simard

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#291: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 11:12:22 by Random C

Peter Davies wrote:
&gt; It all started on Thu, 06 Jul 2006 22:32:10 +0000, when Random C wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Peter Davies wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Whose ideal body? Yours, or someone else's? If not yours, then the
&gt;&gt;&gt;corset makes you look artificial. AND - either way - after a few minutes
&gt;&gt;&gt;of wearing the thing, you get all out of breath and red in the face.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;In other words, may as well just do some exercise.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Actually, no, I don't. And no amount of exercise - most of which is rather
&gt;&gt;painful for me, given my iffy knees - will make me *that* shape.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Yes. That's a plus, in my opinion. The more like you[1] you look, the more
&gt; attractive I am likely to find you (should you happen to care...).
&gt;
In which case the way I look every day at work would probably suit you
fine. Usually this is black stretchy jeans, small t-shirt or if clients
are likely a shirt, and a suit jacket because pockets are useful. In
this weather it varies somewhat and involves more layers to deal with
both the heat of the tube and the freezing aircon in the office. I don't
remember the last time I wore make-up in the office.
When I am going to some sort of event, I enjoy 'making an effort' and
doing something different. The more different to my usual appearance the
better - a costumer's materials include the body wearing the costume,
not just the fabrics.
I will admit that I sometimes wear a corset to work, but it gives very
little waist reduction. I wear it because it helps with the monthly back
and stomach pain. It will be hidden under my clothes and on those days
my clothes are a lot baggier.
What you wear affects how people react to you, and sometimes I want a
different reaction.
--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#292: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 11:18:15 by Random C

Paul Harman wrote:
&gt; &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:IAcrg.4066$<a href="mailto:ye3.736&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net..." target="_blank">ye3.736&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...</a>
&gt;
&gt;&gt;The one I was wearing in that picture (since it's now relevant [1]) is
&gt;&gt;quite comfortable.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; The one to which I was referring was the one that was clearly about to split
&gt; Random C in half:
&gt;
&gt; <a href="http://pics.livejournal.com/random_c/pic/00006ech" target="_blank">http://pics.livejournal.com/random_c/pic/00006ech</a>
&gt;
&gt; I hope you appreciate that, because I was nearly sick looking at it again to
&gt; make sure it was the right link :*/
&gt;
Glad to see my work is so appreciated. As I said that is an older
picture, and I was a good 2 stone lighter then. The waist is only so
defined becuase it had a lot of weight to support - the bustle was made
of MDF so the sudden line of the waist was necessary to prevent
slippage. Given that my natural waist at that time was 26&quot;, would you
like to hazard a guess as to the waist size provided by that corset?
--
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#293: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 11:23:14 by Gid Holyoake

In article &lt;%NIrg.4850$<a href="mailto:ye3.3956&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">ye3.3956&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
Anastasia generously decided to share with us..

Snippetry..

&gt; That's the sort of scandal I might enjoy. I think it's garbage. I wouldn't
&gt; want to ruin anyone's personal event, but I'd have no problems wearing a tux
&gt; to a public sort of thing.

As far as I'm concerned people should wear what they want to, and what
they feel comfortable in.. I remember with much hilarity my former
business partner being outraged that when we went to see the bank
manager in order to sort out an account and set up an overdraft
facility for the new business, I was wearing leather trousers, a t-
shirt and a biker jacket, whilst he had chosen a shirt, tie and
jacket.. he was even more outraged when the bank manager mostly talked
to me, as I was obviously the one that was more comfortable in the
environment.. :-)

Gid

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#294: Re: [I] Business attire

Posted on 2006-07-08 11:30:49 by Random C

Mike Stevens wrote:
&gt; James Mitchelhill wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;This is because someone who needs to be part of a business community
&gt;&gt;(or has to appear to be) needs to present the right image, which means
&gt;&gt;conforming to the standard uniform. While the hyper-successful blokes
&gt;&gt;tend to need to present an image of not conforming, to maintain their
&gt;&gt;illusion of being ahead and apart from the crowd.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Both are uniforms. Both have very similar purposes.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Before I retired, the clothes I wore to work varied from day to day
&gt; depending on what level of formality was appropriate to that day's
&gt; activities. I regarded the clothes as rather like a stage costume - I
&gt; chose whetever I felt best projected the image I wanted that day, from a
&gt; full three-piece suit with white shirt &amp; the tie of the organisation I
&gt; worked for, down through various levels of informality.
&gt;
&gt;
Indeed, if I am dealing with our far-east suppliers, I won't wear a tie
- that would be taking it too far - but I do wear a shirt rather than a
blouse, and a grey trouser suit cut for me by a men's tailor, with mens
shoes which I bought a while ago for a costume.
I do so because whether they realise they're doing it or not, they take
what I say more seriously if I am professionally male at them. Once they
know me, I usually do not need to do so. However, there are exceptions.
One of their techies gets too tongue tied to speak english if I wear
'girl' clothes, and one director will deal with me as a techie if I'm
suited, but on the day I wore a dress because of the heat (a very demure
one, I should add) he didn't listen to a word I said and looked to my
*minion* to answer his questions (which resulted in a bizarre three-way
conversation with him repeating everything I said) and expected me to
get his tea. When they were ready to leave he demanded a photograph with
us all in which he moved his staff around so that he would be standing
next to me, on the edge of the photograph so he had to lean up against
me to be in shot.
--
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#295: Re: [I] Business attire

Posted on 2006-07-08 11:32:30 by Random C

esmi wrote:
I've found that an over-formal image in the wrong situation is
&gt; just as bad as being too informal and that it tends to boil down to
&gt; dressing to project the image that the client is looking for.
&gt;
Indeed. One of our contractors was saying that in some situations the
people you're dealing with won't take you seriously unless you're
wearing a £2000 suit. As he's 'a creative' others won't take him
seriously if his socks match.
--
Random_c
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#296: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 11:35:09 by Random C

Anastasia wrote:
&gt; Alec Cawley wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;In article &lt;<a href="mailto:4h6ottF1q9jpgU1&#64;individual.net" target="_blank">4h6ottF1q9jpgU1&#64;individual.net</a>&gt;,
&gt;&gt;<a href="mailto:chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net" target="_blank">chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net</a> says...
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot;mcv&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt;&gt;&gt;news:44ae102b$0$31637$<a href="mailto:e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl..." target="_blank">e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl...</a>
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;The leader of the 'social' democrats is always tieless, except
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;when he visits the queen. In the 'christian' democrats, all men of
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;importance wear ties (but women don't). With the smaller parties,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;it usually depends on how conservative they are.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Women should not wear ties. There's something rather provocative
&gt;&gt;&gt;about that. Perhaps I've just been indoctrinated by too many
&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot;Skool Disko&quot; nightclub posters.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;It is intentionally provocative. And usually worn with suits cut to
&gt;&gt;exaggerate the feminine form. It means &quot;I, a woman, am invading your
&gt;&gt;territiry, but remaining womany. What are you going to do about it?&quot;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I have intensely wanted, but not been able to commission (for that's what I
&gt; think it would take) a real tuxedo (lightweight) tailored for my shape. I
&gt; love tuxedos, but a man's version makes me look shorter that I already am,
&gt; which is pretty short: 5'4&quot;.
&gt;
&gt; The tux is the ultimate in men's formalwear, and I look very good in the
&gt; near approximations I've been able to whip together, but I really really
&gt; want a real one. It amuses me in a dozen different ways playing with the
&gt; gender barrier like that.
&gt;
&gt;
www.kingandallen.co.uk
The quality's not wonderful, but the fit is decent, and they're cheap.

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#297: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 11:44:25 by Random C

mcv wrote:
&gt; Alec Cawley &lt;<a href="mailto:alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk" target="_blank">alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;But they still convey a message. Bill Gates and Richard Branson don't
&gt;&gt;need to wear them because they are Bill Gates and Richard Branson. But
&gt;&gt;if for ordinary mortals, you don't wear them, and with some exceptions
&gt;&gt;in the IT industry[1], wearing a tie marks you as a serious person.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; At my job, dress code in summer is shorts and bare feet, basically.
&gt; Currently I've been placed with a bank, and they are notorious for
&gt; wearing suits and ties. Everybody everywhere. My boss told me to buy
&gt; a couple of shirts (no tie fortunately), but it turns out that quite
&gt; a lot of people at that IT department of the bank wear jeans and
&gt; poloshirts.
&gt;
&gt; (But since my boss paid for my shirts, I wear them anyway.)
&gt;
I believe the dress code for the company I'm at is 'covered'.
We have upper management who live in torn jeans and techies who wear
tailor-made suits. We also have a network guy with bright pink hair who
sometimes wears skirts in the office.
--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#298: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 12:29:44 by Graycat

On Sat, 8 Jul 2006 01:03:07 -0400, &quot;Arthur Hagen&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt; jotted down:

&gt;Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I wouldn't have many places to wear white tie and tails--less than a
&gt;&gt; tuxedo. And it's definitely beside the point to go into national
&gt;&gt; mens' costume, as my purpose is for *me* to look good in it.
&gt;
&gt;If it's for you to wear, keep in mind that a tux on a woman would /never/ be
&gt;considered formal wear. Unless you were aiming to cause a scandal, I'd very
&gt;much advise against wearing a tux to an occasion where &quot;black tie&quot; is
&gt;specified.

Actually, a tux on a woman could well be formal wear - at
least on the less formal end of the formal speectrum a
trouser suit is perfectly acceptable on women too, here at
any rate.

It would probably be frowned upon at events were formality
is ceremonial and rigidly adhered too - but there aren't
that many of those.

--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
The Oswalds DW casting award - Vote Now!
<a href="http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html</a>

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#299: Re: -I- Fashion and non-fashion (was: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-08 12:39:28 by Graycat

On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 15:17:30 +1000, SteveD &lt;<a href="mailto:usenet&#64;vo.id.au" target="_blank">usenet&#64;vo.id.au</a>&gt;
jotted down:

&gt;On 7 Jul 2006 20:58:04 GMT, Daibhid Ceanaideach &lt;<a href="mailto:daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com</a>&gt;
&gt;wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;A radio programme a while ago said that, in general, people
&gt;&gt;who say (as I used to, before I thought about it) &quot;Oh, I don't
&gt;&gt;bother about what I wear as long as it's clean and fits&quot;[1]
&gt;&gt;actually spend *longer* deciding what to put on in the morning
&gt;&gt;than the fashion-obsessed. I can well believe that.
&gt;
&gt;As a counter-data-point, I'd be one of those people self-identifying as
&gt;one of the 'clean and fits' crowd, and my dressing routine consists of
&gt;grabbing whatever's on the top of each clothing-type pile in the closet.

I used to do that too - but you know, you're (or I) really
just moving tasks around. Instead of making sure your outfit
matches in the morning, you do it in the store. At least
that's what I did - I made sure I didn't have to care in the
mornings by only owning clothes that matched, so anything
would go with anything.

Unfortunately, it leaves you (or, again, me) limited and
bored in the clothing department.

--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
The Oswalds DW casting award - Vote Now!
<a href="http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html</a>

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#300: Re: -I- Fashion and non-fashion (was: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-08 13:10:40 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 08 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: FiX &lt;<a href="mailto:FiX01&#64;club.lemonde.fr" target="_blank">FiX01&#64;club.lemonde.fr</a>&gt;

&gt; On 7 Jul 2006 20:58:04 GMT, Daibhid Ceanaideach
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; [...]
&gt;&gt;A radio programme a while ago said that, in general, people
&gt;&gt;who say (as I used to, before I thought about it) &quot;Oh, I
&gt;&gt;don't bother about what I wear as long as it's clean and
&gt;&gt;fits&quot;[1] actually spend *longer* deciding what to put on in
&gt;&gt;the morning than the fashion-obsessed. I can well believe
&gt;&gt;that.
&gt;
&gt; You mean there's a faster way of choosing your garnment
&gt; than opening your cupboard and taking the first shirt you
&gt; can grab? Wow!

Well, no of course there isn't. The point is that, apparently,
many of the people who *think* they do that, don't. I'm
perfectly happy to accept that this doesn't apply to you or
SteveD.


--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#301: -I- Work dress code, was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 13:17:33 by sphira9343

Random C wrote:

&gt; I believe the dress code for the company I'm at is 'covered'.
&gt; We have upper management who live in torn jeans and techies who wear
&gt; tailor-made suits. We also have a network guy with bright pink hair who
&gt; sometimes wears skirts in the office.

I remember going for an interview during the heatwave of 1995. Despite
the hot weather, I was wearing a jacket and had struggled into tights
(albeit very sheer ones that got taken straight off again once the
interview was over). The professor[1] interviewing me, however, was
wearing shorts. Scruffy, cut-off-jeans type shorts, and what's more he
was wearing a shirt that looked like it had seen better days, and had
some of those coloured hair-wrapper things in his hair.
I would completely agree that, in his everyday work, he should be able
to wear what he likes. But when dealing with the public - and
especially for interviews, when you're giving a general impression of
your workplace to a prospective employee - surely something a bit
smarter would have been better?

[1] The job was Clerical Assistant at a university

CCA

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#302: [I} Formal clothing (was: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-08 13:25:10 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 08 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: &quot;Arthur Hagen&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt;

&gt; For free men (as opposed to the peerage and functionaries),
&gt; the only thing trumping white tie and court dress are
&gt; national costumes, which are always appropriate when
&gt; authentic and worn by someone entitled to wear them.

Depends what you mean by &quot;authentic&quot;. Do you think I'd get a
better reception at a formal function dressed like this:
<a href="http://scotwebstore.com/club_images/items/sr_swhdr_princecharlieblack.jpg" target="_blank"> http://scotwebstore.com/club_images/items/sr_swhdr_princecha rlieblack.jpg</a>

Or like this:
<a href="http://www.theauldallianceparis.com/images/history/kilt.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.theauldallianceparis.com/images/history/kilt.jpg</a>

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#303: Re: -I- Fashion and non-fashion (was: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-08 13:26:30 by Mike Stevens

SteveD wrote:
&gt; On 7 Jul 2006 20:58:04 GMT, Daibhid Ceanaideach
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; A radio programme a while ago said that, in general, people
&gt;&gt; who say (as I used to, before I thought about it) &quot;Oh, I don't
&gt;&gt; bother about what I wear as long as it's clean and fits&quot;[1]
&gt;&gt; actually spend *longer* deciding what to put on in the morning
&gt;&gt; than the fashion-obsessed. I can well believe that.
&gt;
&gt; As a counter-data-point, I'd be one of those people self-identifying
&gt; as one of the 'clean and fits' crowd, and my dressing routine
&gt; consists of grabbing whatever's on the top of each clothing-type pile
&gt; in the closet.

Since we became permanent boaters and most of our days are spent in the open
air, the waether forecast os the biggest influence on what I put in in the
morning.


--
Mike Stevens
narrowboat Felis Catus III
web-site www.mike-stevens.co.uk

No man is an island. So is Man.

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#304: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 13:27:12 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 08 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: Random C &lt;<a href="mailto:random&#64;panatropic.net" target="_blank">random&#64;panatropic.net</a>&gt;

&gt; I believe the dress code for the company I'm at is
&gt; 'covered'. We have upper management who live in torn jeans
&gt; and techies who wear tailor-made suits. We also have a
&gt; network guy with bright pink hair who sometimes wears
&gt; skirts in the office.

I remember, shortly after I'd applied unsucessfully for a job
at a new bookshop, I popped in for the first time as a
customer, and was served by a guy with spiked, jet-black hair,
and an awful lot of facial peircings. As we left, I remarked
to my Mum, &quot;Well, at least I know it wasn't the ponytail...&quot;

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#305: Re: -C- (was {I}) Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 13:29:44 by Lister

On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 01:33:14 +0200, FiX &lt;<a href="mailto:FiX01&#64;club.lemonde.fr" target="_blank">FiX01&#64;club.lemonde.fr</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 22:10:00 +0100, &quot;Ed Weatherup&quot;
&gt;&lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Aquarion wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; CeltiKaos wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 14:36:16 +0100, Orjan Westin wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; As everybody knows, a battery is a collection of big guns, hence
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the expressions &quot;Bring out the big guns&quot;, &quot;Nice cannons&quot;, &quot;Huge
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bazookas&quot;, and &quot;Pwoar, look at that rack&quot;.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So we go from corsets to batteries, to guns, various items of
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; military hardware, or euphemisms using such, back to the female
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; anatomy without passing Go, ending up in Jail, or collecting $200.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Nick trick! :)
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; And now you've had the full afpexperience. This is more what we're
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; fam . . . notorious for than flaming each other to crisps.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Mmm. crisps.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Actually, we missed the bread.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;No one has mentioned the marmite ...
&gt;
&gt;And beer, and wine, and chocolate...
&gt;
&gt;FiX


Which wine goes with Marmite, fix?

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#306: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 14:43:31 by mcv

Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; The tux is the ultimate in men's formalwear,

No it's not. White tie (Dutch: rokkostuum) is way more formal, and the
ultimate in Dutch formalwear is jacquet, but I haven't been able to
figure out the English name for it. Dutch wikipedia hasn't even heard
of it.

Could it be that we actually have more formal formalwear than the
Brits? Sounds unlikely, but it certainly seems that way.

Personally, I consider tuxedos rather banal. They want to be formal
and stylish, but they don't even come close to white tie. Why not
just wear a blazer?


mcv.

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#307: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 14:45:39 by mcv

Alec Cawley &lt;<a href="mailto:alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk" target="_blank">alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; Sorry, but the tux is definitely only penultimate in men's formalwear.
&gt; Once a year, in mid-June, I attend a dinner at which the required attire
&gt; for men is evening tails - cutaway tails, white waitcoat, shirt with
&gt; stickup collar, white bow tie.
&gt;
&gt; Google gives me <a href="http://www.histuxedos.com/FormalWare/ellis5.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.histuxedos.com/FormalWare/ellis5.jpg</a> as an
&gt; example.

I think the front of that jacket is too long.


mcv.

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#308: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 14:52:37 by mcv

Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Arthur Hagen wrote:
&gt;&gt; Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I wouldn't have many places to wear white tie and tails--less than
&gt;&gt;&gt; a tuxedo. And it's definitely beside the point to go into national
&gt;&gt;&gt; mens' costume, as my purpose is for *me* to look good in it.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; If it's for you to wear, keep in mind that a tux on a woman would
&gt;&gt; /never/ be considered formal wear. Unless you were aiming to cause
&gt;&gt; a scandal, I'd very much advise against wearing a tux to an
&gt;&gt; occasion where &quot;black tie&quot; is specified.
&gt;
&gt; That's the sort of scandal I might enjoy. I think it's garbage. I wouldn't
&gt; want to ruin anyone's personal event, but I'd have no problems wearing a tux
&gt; to a public sort of thing.

Then you'll probably be pleased to know that I like to wear my tails to
sort-of formal events over torn jeans and under a green mohawk.


mcv.

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#309: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 14:56:33 by mcv

Lesley Weston &lt;<a href="mailto:brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; Tails is a tail coat, as in a grey morning coat suitable for wearing at
&gt; weddings, but for the evening it would be black and worn with a white
&gt; waistcoat and a white bow tie. It is more formal than a tux, which is aka a
&gt; dinner jacket [1].
[...]
&gt;
&gt; [1] For some reason, though it includes the trousers.

I don't think it'd be very polite to wear without trouser.


mcv.

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#310: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 15:15:26 by alec

In article &lt;44afa873$0$31645$<a href="mailto:e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl" target="_blank">e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl</a>&gt;, <a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>
says...
&gt; Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; The tux is the ultimate in men's formalwear,
&gt;
&gt; No it's not. White tie (Dutch: rokkostuum) is way more formal, and the
&gt; ultimate in Dutch formalwear is jacquet, but I haven't been able to
&gt; figure out the English name for it. Dutch wikipedia hasn't even heard
&gt; of it.
&gt;
&gt; Could it be that we actually have more formal formalwear than the
&gt; Brits? Sounds unlikely, but it certainly seems that way.
&gt;
&gt; Personally, I consider tuxedos rather banal. They want to be formal
&gt; and stylish, but they don't even come close to white tie. Why not
&gt; just wear a blazer?

Many years ago, I went to one of my first dinners at which I wore a
Dinner Jacket aka Tuxedo. I had a very good evening, and imibed my fair
share of wine. On the train home, I was looking at my reflection at the
window in a rather self-satisfied and narcissistic manner, thinking what
the devil of a feller I looked.

The one of a group of farmers, who had obviously been having a good time
in London, beckoned to me. I thought they couldn't mean me, but when
they continued, I realised that they did and went over to them. One
immediately said &quot;We'll have two gin and tonics, a port and...&quot;.

I retreated, bubble popped. Rather than &quot;a devil of a fellow, I looked
like a barman.

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#311: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 15:17:16 by alec

In article &lt;44afa8f3$0$31645$<a href="mailto:e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl" target="_blank">e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl</a>&gt;, <a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>
says...
&gt; Alec Cawley &lt;<a href="mailto:alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk" target="_blank">alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Sorry, but the tux is definitely only penultimate in men's formalwear.
&gt; &gt; Once a year, in mid-June, I attend a dinner at which the required attire
&gt; &gt; for men is evening tails - cutaway tails, white waitcoat, shirt with
&gt; &gt; stickup collar, white bow tie.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Google gives me <a href="http://www.histuxedos.com/FormalWare/ellis5.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.histuxedos.com/FormalWare/ellis5.jpg</a> as an
&gt; &gt; example.
&gt;
&gt; I think the front of that jacket is too long.

I believe that it is. Ideally, the line of the coat and the line of the
waistcoat should be exactly the same. But better to be too long than too
short and show waistcoat below the topcoat.

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#312: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 15:32:51 by mcv

Alec Cawley &lt;<a href="mailto:alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk" target="_blank">alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; In article &lt;44afa8f3$0$31645$<a href="mailto:e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl" target="_blank">e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl</a>&gt;, <a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>
&gt; says...
&gt;&gt; Alec Cawley &lt;<a href="mailto:alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk" target="_blank">alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; Sorry, but the tux is definitely only penultimate in men's formalwear.
&gt;&gt; &gt; Once a year, in mid-June, I attend a dinner at which the required attire
&gt;&gt; &gt; for men is evening tails - cutaway tails, white waitcoat, shirt with
&gt;&gt; &gt; stickup collar, white bow tie.
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; Google gives me <a href="http://www.histuxedos.com/FormalWare/ellis5.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.histuxedos.com/FormalWare/ellis5.jpg</a> as an
&gt;&gt; &gt; example.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I think the front of that jacket is too long.
&gt;
&gt; I believe that it is. Ideally, the line of the coat and the line of the
&gt; waistcoat should be exactly the same. But better to be too long than too
&gt; short and show waistcoat below the topcoat.

No, I think the waistcoat actually should show below the top coat. For
this style only, ofcourse; that's why it's a more festive style.

But seriously, every single case of white tie I've seen, had the waistcoat
show. A random example: <a href="http://www.grootsmode.nl/rokkostuum.htm" target="_blank">http://www.grootsmode.nl/rokkostuum.htm</a>
Or is that something typically Dutch? (I kinda doubt it.)


mcv.

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#313: -I- Formal wear (was:Re: Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-08 15:51:21 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 08 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt;

&gt; But seriously, every single case of white tie I've seen,
&gt; had the waistcoat show. A random example:
&gt; <a href="http://www.grootsmode.nl/rokkostuum.htm" target="_blank">http://www.grootsmode.nl/rokkostuum.htm</a> Or is that
&gt; something typically Dutch? (I kinda doubt it.)

Fred Astaire's didn't.
<a href="http://www.streetswing.com/films/video/pics/top_hat4.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.streetswing.com/films/video/pics/top_hat4.jpg</a>

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#314: Re: -I- Fashion and non-fashion (was: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-08 16:10:07 by Anke

Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:
&gt; The time: 08 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
&gt; speaker: FiX &lt;<a href="mailto:FiX01&#64;club.lemonde.fr" target="_blank">FiX01&#64;club.lemonde.fr</a>&gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; You mean there's a faster way of choosing your garnment
&gt; &gt; than opening your cupboard and taking the first shirt you
&gt; &gt; can grab? Wow!
&gt;
&gt; Well, no of course there isn't. The point is that, apparently,
&gt; many of the people who *think* they do that, don't. I'm
&gt; perfectly happy to accept that this doesn't apply to you or
&gt; SteveD.
&gt;

Well, how long DO people who pay more attention to their
clothes and the image they want to project this day need
to pick out their clothes?
I don't always pick the first thing on the stack, but I don't
think I ever spend more than 10 seconds picking out stuff...

Anke

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#315: Re: -I- Fashion and non-fashion (was: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-08 16:15:57 by Anke

Graycat wrote:
&gt; On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 15:17:30 +1000, SteveD &lt;<a href="mailto:usenet&#64;vo.id.au" target="_blank">usenet&#64;vo.id.au</a>&gt;
&gt; jotted down:
&gt;
&gt; &gt;As a counter-data-point, I'd be one of those people self-
&gt; &gt; identifying as one of the 'clean and fits' crowd, and my
&gt; &gt; dressing routine consists of grabbing whatever's on the
&gt; &gt; top of each clothing-type pile in the closet.
&gt;
&gt; I used to do that too - but you know, you're (or I) really
&gt; just moving tasks around. Instead of making sure your
&gt; outfit matches in the morning, you do it in the store. At
&gt; least that's what I did - I made sure I didn't have to care in
&gt; the mornings by only owning clothes that matched, so
&gt; anything would go with anything.

That's what I did, too.
But I didn't consider it much work; I simply stocked up on
teeshirts in colours I liked when they were on sale...
Jeans mostly just happen. (One of my cousins is only
slightly taller than I am, and I frequently get her jeans she
doesn't wear anymore.)

Anke

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#316: Re: -I- Formal wear

Posted on 2006-07-08 16:23:23 by mcv

Daibhid Ceanaideach &lt;<a href="mailto:daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; The time: 08 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
&gt; speaker: mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; But seriously, every single case of white tie I've seen,
&gt;&gt; had the waistcoat show. A random example:
&gt;&gt; <a href="http://www.grootsmode.nl/rokkostuum.htm" target="_blank">http://www.grootsmode.nl/rokkostuum.htm</a> Or is that
&gt;&gt; something typically Dutch? (I kinda doubt it.)
&gt;
&gt; Fred Astaire's didn't.
&gt; <a href="http://www.streetswing.com/films/video/pics/top_hat4.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.streetswing.com/films/video/pics/top_hat4.jpg</a>

Alright, so there's a difference between American and Dutch white
tie. Any idea about other countries? Maybe there's an Anglo-Saxon
style and a continental style?


mcv.

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#317: [I] Formal wear (was: Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-08 16:57:13 by Jos Dingjan

mcv wrote:

&gt; No it's not. White tie (Dutch: rokkostuum) is way more formal, and the
&gt; ultimate in Dutch formalwear is jacquet,

No it's not. &quot;Jacquet&quot; (Eng: morning coat) and &quot;rokkostuum&quot; (Eng: white
tie) are pretty much equally formal. However, the former is not to be
worn after 18:00, while the latter is not to be worn _before_ 18:00
(except in special circumstances [1]).

&lt;snip&gt;

Cheers,

Jos

[1] Such as state funerals, royal awards and PhD defences [2]
[2] I'll leave you to guess why I got away with it in
<a href="http://rachel.fotopic.net/p721693.html" target="_blank">http://rachel.fotopic.net/p721693.html</a> [3][4]
[3] Hint: nobody died, but it was a close thing :-)
[4] True connoisseurs will be able to narrow the location down to two
cities based on details of our attire

Report this message

#318: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 16:58:12 by James Mitchelhill

On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 09:44:25 GMT, Random C wrote:

&lt;snip&gt;
&gt; I believe the dress code for the company I'm at is 'covered'.
&gt; We have upper management who live in torn jeans and techies who wear
&gt; tailor-made suits. We also have a network guy with bright pink hair who
&gt; sometimes wears skirts in the office.

At my place of work, the official dress code is &quot;business casual&quot;, I
believe. For men, this translates to shirt, trousers, no trainers. You
can get away with less than proper footwear, though, as I found out a
couple of months ago after my proper shoes died and I couldn't afford to
buy more. Middle management seem to add a tie and some wear proper
suits. Upper management remove the tie and unbutton a couple of buttons.

Women seem to wear anything that results in &quot;covered&quot;, though I'm sure I
miss the subtleties of status. We don't have any female upper management
locally (we only have one upper management type here, and another that
visits regularly, so the sample size isn't huge). The one female
upper-management type who visited wore some sort of suit as I recall.

Then again, I do work in insurance. (Not though, unfortunately, doing
anything lucrative.)

--
James Mitchelhill
<a href="mailto:james&#64;disorderfeed.net" target="_blank">james&#64;disorderfeed.net</a>
<a href="http://disorderfeed.net" target="_blank">http://disorderfeed.net</a>

Report this message

#319: Re: [I] Formal wear

Posted on 2006-07-08 17:48:09 by mcv

Jos Dingjan &lt;<a href="mailto:jos&#64;tuatha.org" target="_blank">jos&#64;tuatha.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; mcv wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; No it's not. White tie (Dutch: rokkostuum) is way more formal, and the
&gt;&gt; ultimate in Dutch formalwear is jacquet,
&gt;
&gt; No it's not. &quot;Jacquet&quot; (Eng: morning coat) and &quot;rokkostuum&quot; (Eng: white
&gt; tie) are pretty much equally formal. However, the former is not to be
&gt; worn after 18:00, while the latter is not to be worn _before_ 18:00
&gt; (except in special circumstances [1]).
&gt;
&gt; [1] Such as state funerals, royal awards and PhD defences [2]

White tie at state funerals? I thought jacquet was for funerals. And
even PhD defenses, I thought. Which is why I considered it to be more
formal.


mcv.

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#320: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 17:49:32 by Stacie Hanes

mcv wrote:
&gt; Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; The tux is the ultimate in men's formalwear,
&gt;
&gt; No it's not.

Again, I did not mean &quot;most formal.&quot; I meant that it's what I like best in
the range for myself.

&gt; Personally, I consider tuxedos rather banal. They want to be formal
&gt; and stylish, but they don't even come close to white tie. Why not
&gt; just wear a blazer?

For myself, because I have blazers and like tuxedos.

This isn't a &quot;what's the most formal formalwear&quot; discussion. This is an &quot;I
want a tuxedo&quot; discussion, or at least that's what I started.

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#321: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 17:54:58 by Stacie Hanes

mcv wrote:
&gt; Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;&gt; That's the sort of scandal I might enjoy. I think it's garbage. I
&gt;&gt; wouldn't want to ruin anyone's personal event, but I'd have no
&gt;&gt; problems wearing a tux to a public sort of thing.
&gt;
&gt; Then you'll probably be pleased to know that I like to wear my
&gt; tails to sort-of formal events over torn jeans and under a green
&gt; mohawk.

Oh, yes, indeedy. :-D

Report this message

#322: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 18:31:30 by Random C

James Mitchelhill wrote:

&gt; Women seem to wear anything that results in &quot;covered&quot;, though I'm sure I
&gt; miss the subtleties of status.

Hmm, let me think. Bottom of the pile would be the receptionist. Very
pretty girl, always looks wonderful, but probably buys everything in
cheap places like New Look.
Then there's my level, the developers and assorted people upstairs whose
jobs I don't know. I usually wear jeans and a t-shirt but have been
known to wear the made to measure suit mentioned elsewhere and
occasionally venture into skirts due to weather. I mostly wear marks &amp;
sparks, nothing posher than Next, aside from that suit which is possibly
the cheapest made to measure suit you'll get in the UK. The other female
Dev could probably be used as an advert for Dorothy Perkins.
The only woman I can think of one level above me would be a project
manager who wears designer jeans and a range of t-shirts I don't know
the origin of. She also has several tailored jackets of rather better
quality than mine.
Next level up would be my boss's boss, and most of what she wears makes
me cringe. I would like to drag her to selfridges and make her buy bras
that fit, stop her wearing saggy tops she presumably thinks help
de-emphasise her chest but which actually hide the fact she has a waist,
and get her to burn the hugely unflattering denim skirt she just about
lives in and throw out the cowboy boots that make her legs look fat.
There are a few like her, mostly more around my level, but she's the
worst for choosing horribly unflattering things. Then again, she's a
very friendly aussie, an informal type of boss and based downstairs with
the devs and doesn't do anything client or customer facing, which
probably means she doesn't count.
Then there's various head-of-somethingorother Upstairs women. One just
oozes class and always looks like she's just walked out of some sort of
posh fashion shoot, or possibly like she's about to go on a date. None
of them ever wear suits that I've seen. I very rarely see one of them in
something that doesn't fit well.
Then there's the woman at the top of the tree. She loves shopping,
spends a fortune on her clothes, and loves designer labels at the
expensive end of the scale where you don't *see* the label. Sometimes
she looks fabulous, often she looks entirely inappropriate for an
office. The one time I have seen her dressed up formally she was wearing
a dress which I have been led to believe had a four-figure price tag and
which would have looked better had the receptionist (who is studying
costume part time) made it. It didn't fit and neither the cut nor the
colour suited her.
--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#323: Re: [I] Formal wear

Posted on 2006-07-08 18:52:19 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 08 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt;

&gt; Jos Dingjan &lt;<a href="mailto:jos&#64;tuatha.org" target="_blank">jos&#64;tuatha.org</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;&gt; &quot;Jacquet&quot; (Eng: morning coat) and
&gt;&gt; &quot;rokkostuum&quot; (Eng: white tie) are pretty much equally
&gt;&gt; formal. However, the former is not to be worn after 18:00,
&gt;&gt; while the latter is not to be worn _before_ 18:00 (except
&gt;&gt; in special circumstances [1]).
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; [1] Such as state funerals, royal awards and PhD defences
&gt;
&gt; White tie at state funerals? I thought jacquet was for
&gt; funerals.

So did I. To the extent that, for years, I genuinely thought
it was &quot;mourning dress&quot;, rather than &quot;morning dress&quot;.

White tie is, I believe, worn at the State Opening of
Parliament.

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#324: Re: [I] Business attire

Posted on 2006-07-08 19:15:49 by aqusenet

Random C &lt;<a href="mailto:random&#64;panatropic.net" target="_blank">random&#64;panatropic.net</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; esmi wrote:
&gt; I've found that an over-formal image in the wrong situation is
&gt; &gt; just as bad as being too informal and that it tends to boil down to
&gt; &gt; dressing to project the image that the client is looking for.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; Indeed. One of our contractors was saying that in some situations the
&gt; people you're dealing with won't take you seriously unless you're
&gt; wearing a £2000 suit. As he's 'a creative' others won't take him
&gt; seriously if his socks match.

But.. I'm not wearing socks...

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#325: Re: -I- Formal wear

Posted on 2006-07-08 19:50:19 by Arthur Hagen

mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; Alright, so there's a difference between American and Dutch white
&gt; tie. Any idea about other countries? Maybe there's an Anglo-Saxon
&gt; style and a continental style?

I believe some places (France? Spain?) allow soft collars and a silk scarf
or ascot instead of starched collars and bowtie. Seems very sensible to me,
especially in hotter climates or if you have sensitive skin.

Regards,
--
*Art

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#326: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 20:17:39 by Lister

On 08 Jul 2006 12:56:33 GMT, mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Lesley Weston &lt;<a href="mailto:brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Tails is a tail coat, as in a grey morning coat suitable for wearing at
&gt;&gt; weddings, but for the evening it would be black and worn with a white
&gt;&gt; waistcoat and a white bow tie. It is more formal than a tux, which is aka a
&gt;&gt; dinner jacket [1].
&gt;[...]
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; [1] For some reason, though it includes the trousers.
&gt;
&gt;I don't think it'd be very polite to wear without trouser.


Depends on the company you keep

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#327: Re: -I- Fashion and non-fashion (was: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-08 20:47:46 by FiX01

On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 12:39:28 +0200, Graycat &lt;<a href="mailto:rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt;
wrote:

[...]
&gt;Instead of making sure your outfit
&gt;matches in the morning, you do it in the store.

Let's see... last time I went in a (clothes) shop was...&lt;thinks&gt; in
May 2005, I think. I came back with 5 shirts, 4 pants and a pai of
trekking shoes, my old ones having died. I give up on clothes when
they are so thread bare I can see through them ;-P

FiX

--
&quot;[afp believes its] sensibilities are so refined that we
appreciate things that leave Joe and Josephine Q.
Public drooling with duh.&quot;
-April Goodwin-Smith

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#328: Re: [I} Formal clothing (was: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-08 20:52:39 by Arthur Hagen

Daibhid Ceanaideach &lt;<a href="mailto:daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; The time: 08 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
&gt; speaker: &quot;Arthur Hagen&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; For free men (as opposed to the peerage and functionaries),
&gt;&gt; the only thing trumping white tie and court dress are
&gt;&gt; national costumes, which are always appropriate when
&gt;&gt; authentic and worn by someone entitled to wear them.
&gt;
&gt; Depends what you mean by &quot;authentic&quot;. Do you think I'd get a
&gt; better reception at a formal function dressed like this:
&gt; <a href="http://scotwebstore.com/club_images/items/sr_swhdr_princecharlieblack.jpg" target="_blank"> http://scotwebstore.com/club_images/items/sr_swhdr_princecha rlieblack.jpg</a>
&gt;
&gt; Or like this:
&gt; <a href="http://www.theauldallianceparis.com/images/history/kilt.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.theauldallianceparis.com/images/history/kilt.jpg</a>

Both should by etiquette rules be perfectly fine -- the latter will look a
lot more snazzy when it's new fabric and not a drawing, of course. But I
fear it would be horribly expensive and hot -- how many yards of cloth is it
again?
(Still better than what the poor knight companions have to wear, I guess.)

I take your meaning, though.

Regards,
--
*Art

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#329: Re: [I] Formal wear (was: Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-08 21:53:07 by naath

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1152370633.818338.75140&#64;m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1152370633.818338.75140&#64;m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
Jos Dingjan wrote:
&gt;Path: ewrotcd!?@127.0.0.1!feed-ewrotcd!gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk!news.c am.ac.uk!feed3.jnfs.ja.net!feed4.jnfs.ja.net!jnfs.ja.net!fee der.news.heanet.ie!nntp-server.pubsub.com!news.glorb.com!pos tnews.google.com!m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
&gt;From: &quot;Jos Dingjan&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:jos&#64;tuatha.org" target="_blank">jos&#64;tuatha.org</a>&gt;
&gt;Newsgroups: alt.fan.pratchett
&gt;Subject: [I] Formal wear (was: Bra measurement and fitting)
&gt;Date: 8 Jul 2006 07:57:13 -0700
&gt;Organization: <a href="http://groups.google.com" target="_blank">http://groups.google.com</a>
&gt;Lines: 23
&gt;Message-ID: &lt;<a href="mailto:1152370633.818338.75140&#64;m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1152370633.818338.75140&#64;m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;
&gt;References: &lt;yHzqg.96192$<a href="mailto:wl.40410&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk" target="_blank">wl.40410&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk</a>&gt; &lt;wPzqg.3024$<a href="mailto:cd3.1639&#64;newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">cd3.1639&#64;newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:pan.2006.07.05.11.04.32.336162&#64;munged4usenet.removethatbitohandthisbit.kaotic.co.uk" target="_blank">pan.2006.07.05.11.04.32.336162&#64;munged4usenet.removethatbitohandthisbit.kaotic.co.uk</a>&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:pan.2006.07.05.11.58.31.253071&#64;yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">pan.2006.07.05.11.58.31.253071&#64;yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt; &lt;XiVqg.137$<a href="mailto:vO.84&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">vO.84&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:pan.2006.07.06.07.07.48.520669&#64;yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">pan.2006.07.06.07.07.48.520669&#64;yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:emhpa2tdlh67nnii8rv2rfmlmd5e6k0g3t&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">emhpa2tdlh67nnii8rv2rfmlmd5e6k0g3t&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:4h45c4F1p425eU1&#64;individual.net" target="_blank">4h45c4F1p425eU1&#64;individual.net</a>&gt; &lt;44ad0fc5$0$31647$<a href="mailto:e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl" target="_blank">e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl</a>&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:13vqa21d721k05e2k4revh37lienol3lfg&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">13vqa21d721k05e2k4revh37lienol3lfg&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt; &lt;44ae102b$0$31637$<a href="mailto:e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl" target="_blank">e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl</a>&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:4h6ottF1q9jpgU1&#64;individual.net" target="_blank">4h6ottF1q9jpgU1&#64;individual.net</a>&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:MPG.1f18aceb4d522a08989d48&#64;news.individual.net" target="_blank">MPG.1f18aceb4d522a08989d48&#64;news.individual.net</a>&gt; &lt;E5zrg.4468$<a href="mailto:PE1.3207&#64;newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">PE1.3207&#64;newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt; &lt;44afa873$0$31645$<a href="mailto:e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl" target="_blank">e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl</a>&gt;
&gt;NNTP-Posting-Host: 83.104.55.197
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&gt;Xref: news.chiark.greenend.org.uk alt.fan.pratchett:550682
&gt;

&gt;[4] True connoisseurs will be able to narrow the location down to two
&gt; cities based on details of our attire


At a guess Oxford - because I don't recognise it and that looks like an
Oxford punt in the background there.

naath

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#330: Re: [I] Formal wear (was: Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-08 22:05:55 by Gid Holyoake

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:slrneb0393.nr6.naath&#64;chiark.greenend.org.uk" target="_blank">slrneb0393.nr6.naath&#64;chiark.greenend.org.uk</a>&gt;, Naath (Helen)
Cousins generously decided to share with us..

Snippetry..

&gt; At a guess Oxford - because I don't recognise it and that looks like an
&gt; Oxford punt in the background there.

Do you think you could persuade your copy of slrn not to put all the
headers in the post as text?..

Cheers.. :-)

Gid

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#331: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 22:06:45 by mcv

T.M. Sommers &lt;<a href="mailto:tms&#64;nj.net" target="_blank">tms&#64;nj.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; 8'FED wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; 40AA is the entire number. 0x is but an indicator defined by certain
&gt;&gt; programming languages, and to the best of my knowledge, nobody on afp
&gt;&gt; is programmed in any of those languages [1].
&gt;
&gt; Igors, of course, are programmed in Lisp.

Or possibly one of the lesser known programming languages[1]: Lithp, utheful
for prothething lithtth.


mcv.

[1] I once had a fortune folder that contained a lot of these.

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#332: Re: [I] Formal wear

Posted on 2006-07-08 22:15:42 by mcv

Daibhid Ceanaideach &lt;<a href="mailto:daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; The time: 08 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
&gt; speaker: mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt;
&gt;&gt; Jos Dingjan &lt;<a href="mailto:jos&#64;tuatha.org" target="_blank">jos&#64;tuatha.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;Jacquet&quot; (Eng: morning coat) and
&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;rokkostuum&quot; (Eng: white tie) are pretty much equally
&gt;&gt;&gt; formal. However, the former is not to be worn after 18:00,
&gt;&gt;&gt; while the latter is not to be worn _before_ 18:00 (except
&gt;&gt;&gt; in special circumstances [1]).
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; [1] Such as state funerals, royal awards and PhD defences
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; White tie at state funerals? I thought jacquet was for
&gt;&gt; funerals.
&gt;
&gt; So did I. To the extent that, for years, I genuinely thought
&gt; it was &quot;mourning dress&quot;, rather than &quot;morning dress&quot;.

It's also for weddings, I believe. Although I've been told that
white tie is also acceptable for weddings. Because it's festive,
and so is white tie.

&gt; White tie is, I believe, worn at the State Opening of
&gt; Parliament.

I'm not entirely sure, but I think in Netherland it's suits and
blazers for the opening of the parliamentary year (which I suspect
is the same thing). For men, anyway. For women it's funny hats,
nowadays. Almost every event is funny hats for women these days.


mcv.

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#333: Re: [I] Business attire

Posted on 2006-07-08 22:27:40 by mcv

Random C &lt;<a href="mailto:random&#64;panatropic.net" target="_blank">random&#64;panatropic.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; esmi wrote:
&gt; I've found that an over-formal image in the wrong situation is
&gt;&gt; just as bad as being too informal and that it tends to boil down to
&gt;&gt; dressing to project the image that the client is looking for.
&gt;&gt;
&gt; Indeed. One of our contractors was saying that in some situations the
&gt; people you're dealing with won't take you seriously unless you're
&gt; wearing a ?2000 suit. As he's 'a creative' others won't take him
&gt; seriously if his socks match.

I have a friend who seems to make a point of always wearing mismatched
socks. Probably because it fits his nerd image.

My socks are all black, so even if I wear mismatched socks, nobody'd
be able to tell.


mcv.

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#334: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 23:43:27 by Lesley Weston

in article TSFrg.4777$<a href="mailto:ye3.4484&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">ye3.4484&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>, Anastasia
at <a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a> wrote on 07/07/2006 8:44 PM:

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; I wouldn't have many places to wear white tie and tails--less than a tuxedo.
&gt; And it's definitely beside the point to go into national mens' costume, as
&gt; my purpose is for *me* to look good in it.

Lederhosen? Miss Brahms looked pretty good in them, though not as good as
Mr. Humphries.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#335: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-08 23:54:02 by Lesley Weston

in article f3u935ekwp7r$.m6y7ghqcu7j6$<a href="mailto:.dlg&#64;40tude.net" target="_blank">.dlg&#64;40tude.net</a>, James Mitchelhill at
<a href="mailto:james&#64;disorderfeed.net" target="_blank">james&#64;disorderfeed.net</a> wrote on 08/07/2006 7:58 AM:

&gt; On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 09:44:25 GMT, Random C wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt; I believe the dress code for the company I'm at is 'covered'.
&gt;&gt; We have upper management who live in torn jeans and techies who wear
&gt;&gt; tailor-made suits. We also have a network guy with bright pink hair who
&gt;&gt; sometimes wears skirts in the office.
&gt;
&gt; At my place of work, the official dress code is &quot;business casual&quot;, I
&gt; believe. For men, this translates to shirt, trousers, no trainers. You
&gt; can get away with less than proper footwear, though, as I found out a
&gt; couple of months ago after my proper shoes died and I couldn't afford to
&gt; buy more. Middle management seem to add a tie and some wear proper
&gt; suits. Upper management remove the tie and unbutton a couple of buttons.
&gt;
&gt; Women seem to wear anything that results in &quot;covered&quot;, though I'm sure I
&gt; miss the subtleties of status.

My lab had a PhD student from Mainland China once. He explained how a
society in which it is axiomatic that no-one has higher status than anyone
else distinguishes brass from hoi-polloi. It's the pens in the top pocket -
the more pens and the better their quality, the higher up the ladder is the
wearer of the pens.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
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#336: Re: [I] Formal wear

Posted on 2006-07-09 00:26:20 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:Xns97FAB5CDF1C79daibhid&#64;130.133.1.4" target="_blank">Xns97FAB5CDF1C79daibhid&#64;130.133.1.4</a>, Daibhid Ceanaideach at
<a href="mailto:daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com</a> wrote on 08/07/2006 9:52 AM:

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; White tie is, I believe, worn at the State Opening of
&gt; Parliament.

The Queen used to wear a formal ball gown and a tiara for it. I don't know
if she still does. For Canada's most recent Opening, the Governor general
wore a smart outfit that looked really good on her [1]; unfortunately the
same outfit didn't look nearly so good on the new Prime Minister's wife [2]
at the same occasion.

[1] At her first Press Dinner as GG, an occasion when public figures let
down their hair and the press are supposed to be kind to them, she was
filmed saying &quot;The Prime Minister did not choose me for the job because I am
a woman, nor because I am black, nor even because I am French Canadian. He
did it because I am HOT&quot;. She got her laugh, but I think most Canadians took
her literally.

[2] The CBC commentator kept referring to her as &quot;Wife Loreen&quot;. The poor
thing did look rather like someone who would be called Wife Loreen.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
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#337: Re: [I] Formal wear (was: Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-09 00:29:42 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:1152370633.818338.75140&#64;m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1152370633.818338.75140&#64;m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com</a>, Jos Dingjan
at <a href="mailto:jos&#64;tuatha.org" target="_blank">jos&#64;tuatha.org</a> wrote on 08/07/2006 7:57 AM:

&gt; mcv wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; No it's not. White tie (Dutch: rokkostuum) is way more formal, and the
&gt;&gt; ultimate in Dutch formalwear is jacquet,
&gt;
&gt; No it's not. &quot;Jacquet&quot; (Eng: morning coat) and &quot;rokkostuum&quot; (Eng: white
&gt; tie) are pretty much equally formal. However, the former is not to be
&gt; worn after 18:00, while the latter is not to be worn _before_ 18:00
&gt; (except in special circumstances [1]).
&gt;
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;

&gt; [1] Such as state funerals, royal awards and PhD defences

And not having gone home yet, even though it's now broad daylight.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
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#338: Re: -I- Work dress code, was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-09 00:47:30 by SteveD

On 8 Jul 2006 04:17:33 -0700, &quot;CCA&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;The professor[1] interviewing me, however, was
&gt;wearing shorts. Scruffy, cut-off-jeans type shorts, and what's more he
&gt;was wearing a shirt that looked like it had seen better days, and had
&gt;some of those coloured hair-wrapper things in his hair.
&gt;I would completely agree that, in his everyday work, he should be able
&gt;to wear what he likes. But when dealing with the public - and
&gt;especially for interviews, when you're giving a general impression of
&gt;your workplace to a prospective employee - surely something a bit
&gt;smarter would have been better?

I guess it would depend on what the workplace was like as to whether the
impression was accurate.

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#339: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-09 00:57:54 by NiceOrc

Graycat wrote:
&gt; On Sat, 8 Jul 2006 01:03:07 -0400, &quot;Arthur Hagen&quot;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt; jotted down:
&gt;
&gt; &gt;Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; I wouldn't have many places to wear white tie and tails--less than a
&gt; &gt;&gt; tuxedo. And it's definitely beside the point to go into national
&gt; &gt;&gt; mens' costume, as my purpose is for *me* to look good in it.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;If it's for you to wear, keep in mind that a tux on a woman would /never/ be
&gt; &gt;considered formal wear. Unless you were aiming to cause a scandal, I'd very
&gt; &gt;much advise against wearing a tux to an occasion where &quot;black tie&quot; is
&gt; &gt;specified.
&gt;
&gt; Actually, a tux on a woman could well be formal wear - at
&gt; least on the less formal end of the formal speectrum a
&gt; trouser suit is perfectly acceptable on women too, here at
&gt; any rate.
&gt;
&gt; It would probably be frowned upon at events were formality
&gt; is ceremonial and rigidly adhered too - but there aren't
&gt; that many of those.
&gt;
&gt; --
&gt; Elin
&gt; The Tale of Westala and Villtin
&gt; <a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
&gt; The Oswalds DW casting award - Vote Now!
&gt; <a href="http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html</a>

Hi
A while back, in 2002, our Prime Minister wore (shock horror!)
*trousers* to a formal dinner with the Queen here. Personally I don't
see what the fuss was about. It was a very nice trouser suit, made by
an NZ designer. Here's a link if you want to see the sort of opinion
article that was around at the time.
<a href="http://nznews.net.nz/hardnews/2002/20020301.html" target="_blank">http://nznews.net.nz/hardnews/2002/20020301.html</a>

I suppose that (here in the colonies at least) being Prime Minister and
meeting the Queen is fairly FORMAL, but as Helen Clark is the sort of
person who goes mountain climbing and bush walking for relaxation, she
tends to dress comfortably and sensibly. Certainly in older photos
(pre-PM) she looks like she wore the first thing in her wardrobe!

It did make the Queen look overdressed (big posh frock and tiara) which
could possibly be called bad manners, but then I assume both Elizabeth
and Helen have minions who are supposed to check the dress code for the
event?

Cheers
NiceOrc

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#340: Re: [I] Business attire

Posted on 2006-07-09 01:08:56 by James Mitchelhill

On 08 Jul 2006 20:27:40 GMT, mcv wrote:

&gt; Random C &lt;<a href="mailto:random&#64;panatropic.net" target="_blank">random&#64;panatropic.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; Indeed. One of our contractors was saying that in some situations the
&gt;&gt; people you're dealing with won't take you seriously unless you're
&gt;&gt; wearing a ?2000 suit. As he's 'a creative' others won't take him
&gt;&gt; seriously if his socks match.
&gt;
&gt; I have a friend who seems to make a point of always wearing mismatched
&gt; socks. Probably because it fits his nerd image.
&lt;snip&gt;

I tend to wear mismatched socks. Mainly because the parts of my brain
that think &quot;fashion blunder&quot; don't work before 10am.

If anyone noticed my mismatched socks, though, I think my response would
be &quot;Why are you looking at my socks?&quot;

--
James Mitchelhill
<a href="mailto:james&#64;disorderfeed.net" target="_blank">james&#64;disorderfeed.net</a>
<a href="http://disorderfeed.net" target="_blank">http://disorderfeed.net</a>

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#341: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-09 01:14:32 by James Mitchelhill

On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 21:54:02 GMT, Lesley Weston wrote:

&gt; in article f3u935ekwp7r$.m6y7ghqcu7j6$<a href="mailto:.dlg&#64;40tude.net" target="_blank">.dlg&#64;40tude.net</a>, James Mitchelhill at
&gt; <a href="mailto:james&#64;disorderfeed.net" target="_blank">james&#64;disorderfeed.net</a> wrote on 08/07/2006 7:58 AM:
&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt; Women seem to wear anything that results in &quot;covered&quot;, though I'm sure I
&gt;&gt; miss the subtleties of status.
&gt;
&gt; My lab had a PhD student from Mainland China once. He explained how a
&gt; society in which it is axiomatic that no-one has higher status than anyone
&gt; else distinguishes brass from hoi-polloi. It's the pens in the top pocket -
&gt; the more pens and the better their quality, the higher up the ladder is the
&gt; wearer of the pens.

So, the purpose of a really nice pen is envy?

--
James Mitchelhill
<a href="mailto:james&#64;disorderfeed.net" target="_blank">james&#64;disorderfeed.net</a>
<a href="http://disorderfeed.net" target="_blank">http://disorderfeed.net</a>

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#342: Re: -I- Fashion and non-fashion (was: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-09 01:30:06 by Hendrik Schober

FiX &lt;<a href="mailto:FiX01&#64;club.lemonde.fr" target="_blank">FiX01&#64;club.lemonde.fr</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 12:39:28 +0200, Graycat &lt;<a href="mailto:rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt;
&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; [...]
&gt; &gt; Instead of making sure your outfit
&gt; &gt; matches in the morning, you do it in the store.
&gt;
&gt; Let's see... last time I went in a (clothes) shop was...&lt;thinks&gt; in
&gt; May 2005, I think. I came back with 5 shirts, 4 pants and a pai of
&gt; trekking shoes, my old ones having died. I give up on clothes when
&gt; they are so thread bare I can see through them ;-P

My father once said: Men don't wear clothes, they live in
them. You wouldn't want to move every morning, would you?

Schobi

--
<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a> is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

&quot;The sarcasm is mightier than the sword.&quot;
Eric Jarvis

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#343: Re: -I- Fashion and non-fashion (was: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-09 01:37:54 by Hendrik Schober

SteveD &lt;<a href="mailto:usenet&#64;vo.id.au" target="_blank">usenet&#64;vo.id.au</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; On 7 Jul 2006 20:58:04 GMT, Daibhid Ceanaideach &lt;<a href="mailto:daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com</a>&gt;
&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; A radio programme a while ago said that, in general, people
&gt; &gt; who say (as I used to, before I thought about it) &quot;Oh, I don't
&gt; &gt; bother about what I wear as long as it's clean and fits&quot;[1]
&gt; &gt; actually spend *longer* deciding what to put on in the morning
&gt; &gt; than the fashion-obsessed. I can well believe that.
&gt;
&gt; As a counter-data-point, I'd be one of those people self-identifying as
&gt; one of the 'clean and fits' crowd, and my dressing routine consists of
&gt; grabbing whatever's on the top of each clothing-type pile in the closet.
&gt;
&gt; I'm not quite sure I could spend *less* time deciding what to wear - I
&gt; walk up to the closet, rummage in the same set of shelves as every other
&gt; day, pull out the first thing my hand encounters, decision made. The day
&gt; someone puts a squeaky toy on top of my T-shirt pile, I'm going to walk
&gt; out of the house looking very silly indeed.

I am sure my girlfriend sometimes puts certain shirts on top
of the pile to make sure I wear those the next day. Although
I am also sure it doesn't always work. But then buying clothes
is a real PITA for me, as I am hard to satisfy. I mostly like
the clothes I have already been wearing for a long time. If I
buy a new jeans, basically it needs to look exactly like the
old one (minus a few bare threads, of course). And there's
very few t-shirt colors I accept. They all go well with either
blue or black jeans. Socks are usually black, although I often
do have a few brown ones. The last time I owned a tie was when
I was seven. It was a yellow one and I only remember wearing
it once.

Schobi

--
<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a> is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

&quot;The sarcasm is mightier than the sword.&quot;
Eric Jarvis

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#344: Re: -C- (was {I}) Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-09 01:58:47 by Hendrik Schober

Lister &lt;<a href="mailto:fache&#64;SPAMclara.net" target="_blank">fache&#64;SPAMclara.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 01:33:14 +0200, FiX &lt;<a href="mailto:FiX01&#64;club.lemonde.fr" target="_blank">FiX01&#64;club.lemonde.fr</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt; On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 22:10:00 +0100, &quot;Ed Weatherup&quot;
&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt; &gt; Aquarion wrote:
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; CeltiKaos wrote:
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 14:36:16 +0100, Orjan Westin wrote:
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; As everybody knows, a battery is a collection of big guns, hence
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; the expressions &quot;Bring out the big guns&quot;, &quot;Nice cannons&quot;, &quot;Huge
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; bazookas&quot;, and &quot;Pwoar, look at that rack&quot;.
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; So we go from corsets to batteries, to guns, various items of
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; military hardware, or euphemisms using such, back to the female
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; anatomy without passing Go, ending up in Jail, or collecting $200.
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Nick trick! :)
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; And now you've had the full afpexperience. This is more what we're
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; fam . . . notorious for than flaming each other to crisps.
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Mmm. crisps.
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Actually, we missed the bread.
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; No one has mentioned the marmite ...
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; And beer, and wine, and chocolate...
&gt;
&gt; Which wine goes with Marmite, fix?

The one that's got an h somewhere.

Schobi

--
<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a> is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

&quot;The sarcasm is mightier than the sword.&quot;
Eric Jarvis

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#345: Re: [I] Potential London Meets

Posted on 2006-07-09 03:00:43 by Stacie Hanes

Aquarion wrote:

&gt; So if we were to say, for example, the Saturday before the Con, at,
&gt; say, The Green Man in London, then things might start heading in
&gt; the right direction...

So the 12th? At this &quot;Green Man&quot; place?

Could we get a current reading on people's availability?

As an alternate date, the 16th.

I'd like to hear who could make which, to better accomodate the most people.

And, please to hear from anyone offering crash space, for the benefit of all
readers

***

For myself, I am not without a roof at any time, but I'm still looking for
people to visit, things to do, and places to be and/or sleep on the 16th and
17th.

There were tentative mentions of Bath and Wales--if that still sounds okay
with the mentioners, would you get back to me? I should try to firm up what
I'm doing the two days or so before the Con,

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#346: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-09 05:18:00 by Arthur Hagen

James Mitchelhill &lt;<a href="mailto:james&#64;disorderfeed.net" target="_blank">james&#64;disorderfeed.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 21:54:02 GMT, Lesley Weston wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; My lab had a PhD student from Mainland China once. He explained how a
&gt;&gt; society in which it is axiomatic that no-one has higher status than
&gt;&gt; anyone else distinguishes brass from hoi-polloi. It's the pens in
&gt;&gt; the top pocket - the more pens and the better their quality, the
&gt;&gt; higher up the ladder is the wearer of the pens.
&gt;
&gt; So, the purpose of a really nice pen is envy?

*PELT* *PELT*

--
*Art

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#347: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-09 10:02:51 by Lister

On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 21:43:27 GMT, Lesley Weston
&lt;<a href="mailto:brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;in article TSFrg.4777$<a href="mailto:ye3.4484&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">ye3.4484&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>, Anastasia
&gt;at <a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a> wrote on 07/07/2006 8:44 PM:
&gt;
&gt;&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I wouldn't have many places to wear white tie and tails--less than a tuxedo.
&gt;&gt; And it's definitely beside the point to go into national mens' costume, as
&gt;&gt; my purpose is for *me* to look good in it.
&gt;
&gt;Lederhosen? Miss Brahms looked pretty good in them, though not as good as
&gt;Mr. Humphries.


Are you free, Lesley?

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#348: Re: [I] Business attire

Posted on 2006-07-09 10:07:18 by Eric Jarvis

mcv <a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a> wrote in &lt;44b0153c$0$31645$<a href="mailto:e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl" target="_blank">e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl</a>&gt;:
&gt; Random C &lt;<a href="mailto:random&#64;panatropic.net" target="_blank">random&#64;panatropic.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt; esmi wrote:
&gt; &gt; I've found that an over-formal image in the wrong situation is
&gt; &gt;&gt; just as bad as being too informal and that it tends to boil down to
&gt; &gt;&gt; dressing to project the image that the client is looking for.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt; Indeed. One of our contractors was saying that in some situations the
&gt; &gt; people you're dealing with won't take you seriously unless you're
&gt; &gt; wearing a ?2000 suit. As he's 'a creative' others won't take him
&gt; &gt; seriously if his socks match.
&gt;
&gt; I have a friend who seems to make a point of always wearing mismatched
&gt; socks. Probably because it fits his nerd image.
&gt;

I used to when I was much younger. It was a deliberate choice. There are a
limited number of things you can do with standard male clothing that are
completely wrong but neither uncomfortable nor entirely repellent.

&gt; My socks are all black, so even if I wear mismatched socks, nobody'd
&gt; be able to tell.
&gt;

This is my current preference.

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
&quot;live fast, die only if strictly necessary&quot;

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#349: Re: [I] Formal wear

Posted on 2006-07-09 11:38:34 by Jos Dingjan

Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:
&gt; mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote:

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; &gt; White tie at state funerals? I thought jacquet was for
&gt; &gt; funerals.
&gt;
&gt; So did I. To the extent that, for years, I genuinely thought
&gt; it was &quot;mourning dress&quot;, rather than &quot;morning dress&quot;.

Morning dress for (formal) funerals, sure, but we're talking _state_
funerals here.

After your comments I went and had a bit of a google, and realised that
the whole issue of dress-code for state funerals is largely academic in
the Netherlands. The Netherlands doesn't really have state funerals,
not even for members of the royal family.

That's why at the funerals of Claus van Amsberg, Bernhard zur
Lippe-Biesterfeld &amp; Juliana von Mecklenburg-Schwerin[1] you would've
seen morning dress rather than white tie.

Cheers,

Jos

[1] Perhaps better known as princes Claus &amp; Bernhard of the
Netherlands, and princess Juliana of Orange-Nassau.

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#350: Re: [I] Business attire

Posted on 2006-07-09 12:32:04 by Diane L

James Mitchelhill wrote:

&lt;snip&gt;
&gt; I tend to wear mismatched socks. Mainly because the parts of my brain
&gt; that think &quot;fashion blunder&quot; don't work before 10am.
&gt;
&gt; If anyone noticed my mismatched socks, though, I think my response
&gt; would be &quot;Why are you looking at my socks?&quot;

I once went to work wearing mismatched shoes. They were both black,
both had the same sized heels but one had an open toe and the other
one didn't. It wasn't deliberate, I just picked two black shoes out of
the cupboard and didn't bother to actually look at my feet before
leaving.

Diane L.

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#351: Re: [I] Formal wear (was: Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-09 12:32:58 by naath

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:MPG.1f1a206c5b6162cb989787&#64;news.btinternet.com" target="_blank">MPG.1f1a206c5b6162cb989787&#64;news.btinternet.com</a>&gt;, Gid Holyoake wrote:

&gt;
&gt;&gt; At a guess Oxford - because I don't recognise it and that looks like an
&gt;&gt; Oxford punt in the background there.
&gt;
&gt;Do you think you could persuade your copy of slrn not to put all the
&gt;headers in the post as text?..


ooopth. sorry.

naath

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#352: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-09 12:40:49 by Diane L

Arthur Hagen wrote:

&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt; It is intentionally provocative. And usually worn with suits cut to
&gt;&gt; exaggerate the feminine form. It means &quot;I, a woman, am invading your
&gt;&gt; territiry, but remaining womany. What are you going to do about it?&quot;
&gt;
&gt; Of course, the message received by the male mind might be &quot;I have
&gt; penis envy&quot;.

Ah, yes, penis envy. A concept originating in a time when women had
less access to education, money, political and social freedom and
fundamental human rights than men, and stating that the one thing
they *really* wanted was a small piece of erectile tissue :-)

Diane L.

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#353: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-09 13:54:33 by Graycat

On 8 Jul 2006 15:57:54 -0700, &quot;NiceOrc&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:janeplus3&#64;xtra.co.nz" target="_blank">janeplus3&#64;xtra.co.nz</a>&gt; jotted down:

&gt;Graycat wrote:

&gt;&gt; Actually, a tux on a woman could well be formal wear - at
&gt;&gt; least on the less formal end of the formal speectrum a
&gt;&gt; trouser suit is perfectly acceptable on women too, here at
&gt;&gt; any rate.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; It would probably be frowned upon at events were formality
&gt;&gt; is ceremonial and rigidly adhered too - but there aren't
&gt;&gt; that many of those.

&gt;A while back, in 2002, our Prime Minister wore (shock horror!)
&gt;*trousers* to a formal dinner with the Queen here. Personally I don't
&gt;see what the fuss was about. It was a very nice trouser suit, made by
&gt;an NZ designer. Here's a link if you want to see the sort of opinion
&gt;article that was around at the time.
&gt;<a href="http://nznews.net.nz/hardnews/2002/20020301.html" target="_blank">http://nznews.net.nz/hardnews/2002/20020301.html</a>

A big dinner with the royals would, I think, count as one of
those occasions where you have to wear a dress, and probably
a fancy one at that. If the dinner was at night anyway.

Certain student parties and the nobel dinner are other
occasions where a trouser suit on a woman would probably be
frowned upon.

Certain people who are stuffy about that sort of thing might
have really fancy weddings.

Apart from that, I have never been to an event where it
wouldn't have been ok. I usually wear a dress anyway,
because I like to, but I wouldn't be afraid to wear say a
tux instead.

--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
The Oswalds DW casting award - Vote Now!
<a href="http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html</a>

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#354: Re: [I] Formal wear

Posted on 2006-07-09 14:03:17 by Graycat

On 08 Jul 2006 15:48:09 GMT, mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; jotted
down:

&gt;Jos Dingjan &lt;<a href="mailto:jos&#64;tuatha.org" target="_blank">jos&#64;tuatha.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; mcv wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; No it's not. White tie (Dutch: rokkostuum) is way more formal, and the
&gt;&gt;&gt; ultimate in Dutch formalwear is jacquet,
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; No it's not. &quot;Jacquet&quot; (Eng: morning coat) and &quot;rokkostuum&quot; (Eng: white
&gt;&gt; tie) are pretty much equally formal. However, the former is not to be
&gt;&gt; worn after 18:00, while the latter is not to be worn _before_ 18:00
&gt;&gt; (except in special circumstances [1]).
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; [1] Such as state funerals, royal awards and PhD defences [2]
&gt;
&gt;White tie at state funerals? I thought jacquet was for funerals. And
&gt;even PhD defenses, I thought. Which is why I considered it to be more
&gt;formal.

At least in Sweden this is all getting slowly defenestrated
- (young) people are now picking the type of formalwear they
like the looks of best for their weddings. So jacquettes at
night, white tie in the morning, etc.

To me, it seems sensible - if it's your wedding, wear
clothes you like, no matter what the book says.

--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
The Oswalds DW casting award - Vote Now!
<a href="http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html</a>

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#355: Re: [I] Potential London Meets

Posted on 2006-07-09 14:33:26 by raltbos

&quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; Aquarion wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; So if we were to say, for example, the Saturday before the Con, at,
&gt; &gt; say, The Green Man in London, then things might start heading in
&gt; &gt; the right direction...
&gt;
&gt; So the 12th? At this &quot;Green Man&quot; place?
&gt;
&gt; Could we get a current reading on people's availability?
&gt;
&gt; As an alternate date, the 16th.
&gt;
&gt; I'd like to hear who could make which, to better accomodate the most people.

I could almost certainly make the 16th. The 12th would be dependant on
my employer being willing to shuffle dates.

Richard

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#356: Re: [I] Formal wear (was: Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-09 15:18:31 by Jos Dingjan

Naath HelenCousins wrote:
&gt; Jos Dingjan wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; [4] True connoisseurs will be able to narrow the location down to two
&gt;&gt; cities based on details of our attire
&gt;
&gt; At a guess Oxford - because I don't recognise it and that looks like an
&gt; Oxford punt in the background there.

Ah, perhaps I should've made explicit I was still talking about the
Netherlands there :-)

The two cities are Amsterdam and Leiden, and the telling detail is the
colour of the waistcoat.

At Leiden University and the Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam, male
candidates are required to defend their PhD thesis in white tie with a
black waistcoat, where most other universities require or advise white
tie with a white waistcoat. The dress code for female candidates is
usally &quot;appropriate to the occasion&quot;.

Cheers,

Jos

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#357: Re: [I] Potential London Meets

Posted on 2006-07-09 16:04:51 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Sun, 9 Jul 2006, Anastasia wrote:

&gt; So the 12th? At this &quot;Green Man&quot; place?
&gt;
&gt; Could we get a current reading on people's availability?
&gt;
&gt; As an alternate date, the 16th.
&gt;

I should be able to make either. Figure I may as well, I haven't seen
folks londonwards in a while and it kinda eliminates the risk of not
recognising each other at nottingham station :-)

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

&quot;The reason for this is simple yet profound. Equations of the form
x = x are completely useless. All interesting equations are of the
form x = y.&quot; -- John C. Baez

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#358: Re: [I] -I- Metadoc measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-09 16:21:29 by esmi

on 08/07/2006 00:11 FiX said the following:
&gt; On Fri, 7 Jul 2006 08:28:20 +0930, &quot;8'FED&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:dragon&#64;netyp.com.au" target="_blank">dragon&#64;netyp.com.au</a>&gt;
&gt; wrote:

&gt;&gt; esmi sigged:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; A Brief Guide to alt.fan.pratchett:
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="http://www.blackwidows.co.uk/afp-guide/" target="_blank">http://www.blackwidows.co.uk/afp-guide/</a>
&gt;&gt; Now THAT looks very familiar. :-)

&gt;&gt; [For those that don't know - and that'll be the bulk of modern
&gt;&gt; afpers - it's the nth version of a document for which I wrote the
&gt;&gt; original draft. Various people have changed things, but it still
&gt;&gt; contains some of my original words. Long time ago, that was.]

Actually 75% of that resource is based upon The Imp Guide (a beginner's
resource I orginally created about 8 years ago and still maintain). I
merely altered parts of it to make it directly relevant to AFP. The
sections on 'What is AFP?', 'Irrelevant vs. Inappropriate', and
'Annotations &amp; Spoilers' were based on PerditaX's original guide,
published some years back by Murky with input from Leo, ppint, myself
and Adrian, IIRC.

Everything else is adapted from Newsgroups section of The Imp Guide.

&gt; But it still conatain huge inaccuracies:
&gt;
&gt; &quot; In the real world, when you travel to different countries, you are
&gt; expected to make an effort to embrace the culture of the people around
&gt; you.&quot;
&gt; &lt;G&amp;D&gt;

Hey! I even try to speak[1] French when I'm over on your side of the
Channel! ;-)

--
esmi

[1] Ok - 'mangle' might be a better description...

A Brief Guide to alt.fan.pratchett:
<a href="http://www.blackwidows.co.uk/afp-guide/" target="_blank">http://www.blackwidows.co.uk/afp-guide/</a>

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#359: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-09 16:35:44 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:pvd1b2tc60e0tmlg9tp61h5riuu6odk3sf&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">pvd1b2tc60e0tmlg9tp61h5riuu6odk3sf&#64;4ax.com</a>, Lister at
<a href="mailto:fache&#64;SPAMclara.net" target="_blank">fache&#64;SPAMclara.net</a> wrote on 09/07/2006 1:02 AM:

&gt; On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 21:43:27 GMT, Lesley Weston
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; in article TSFrg.4777$<a href="mailto:ye3.4484&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">ye3.4484&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>, Anastasia
&gt;&gt; at <a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a> wrote on 07/07/2006 8:44 PM:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I wouldn't have many places to wear white tie and tails--less than a tuxedo.
&gt;&gt;&gt; And it's definitely beside the point to go into national mens' costume, as
&gt;&gt;&gt; my purpose is for *me* to look good in it.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Lederhosen? Miss Brahms looked pretty good in them, though not as good as
&gt;&gt; Mr. Humphries.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Are you free, Lesley?

&lt;Looks elaborately to all sides&gt;

Ai'm free!

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#360: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-09 16:37:09 by Lesley Weston

in article 1ix8uhbvf5oai$.1k2uzpgspjmo6$<a href="mailto:.dlg&#64;40tude.net" target="_blank">.dlg&#64;40tude.net</a>, James Mitchelhill
at <a href="mailto:james&#64;disorderfeed.net" target="_blank">james&#64;disorderfeed.net</a> wrote on 08/07/2006 4:14 PM:

&gt; On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 21:54:02 GMT, Lesley Weston wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; in article f3u935ekwp7r$.m6y7ghqcu7j6$<a href="mailto:.dlg&#64;40tude.net" target="_blank">.dlg&#64;40tude.net</a>, James Mitchelhill at
&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:james&#64;disorderfeed.net" target="_blank">james&#64;disorderfeed.net</a> wrote on 08/07/2006 7:58 AM:
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Women seem to wear anything that results in &quot;covered&quot;, though I'm sure I
&gt;&gt;&gt; miss the subtleties of status.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; My lab had a PhD student from Mainland China once. He explained how a
&gt;&gt; society in which it is axiomatic that no-one has higher status than anyone
&gt;&gt; else distinguishes brass from hoi-polloi. It's the pens in the top pocket -
&gt;&gt; the more pens and the better their quality, the higher up the ladder is the
&gt;&gt; wearer of the pens.
&gt;
&gt; So, the purpose of a really nice pen is envy?

Applause!

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#361: Re: [I] Potential London Meets

Posted on 2006-07-09 17:43:20 by aqusenet

Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; Aquarion wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; So if we were to say, for example, the Saturday before the Con, at,
&gt; &gt; say, The Green Man in London, then things might start heading in
&gt; &gt; the right direction...
&gt;
&gt; So the 12th? At this &quot;Green Man&quot; place?
&gt;
&gt; Could we get a current reading on people's availability?
&gt;
&gt; As an alternate date, the 16th.
&gt;
&gt; I'd like to hear who could make which, to better accomodate the most people.
&gt;
&gt; And, please to hear from anyone offering crash space, for the benefit of all
&gt; readers
&gt;
&gt; ***
&gt;
&gt; For myself, I am not without a roof at any time, but I'm still looking for
&gt; people to visit, things to do, and places to be and/or sleep on the 16th and
&gt; 17th.
&gt;
&gt; There were tentative mentions of Bath and Wales--if that still sounds okay
&gt; with the mentioners, would you get back to me? I should try to firm up what
&gt; I'm doing the two days or so before the Con,

I can make the 12, and possibly the late evening of the 16th.

The Green Man is a pub in London, you go to Great Portland Street
station and then ask a man who will be sarcastic at you, as it's
directly opposite GPS.

Details, such: <a href="http://pubs.lspace.org.uk/UK/London/GreenMan.html" target="_blank">http://pubs.lspace.org.uk/UK/London/GreenMan.html</a>

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#362: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-09 20:26:19 by April Goodwin-Smith

&quot;Diane L&quot; wrote ...
&lt;snip&gt;
&gt; Ah, yes, penis envy. A concept originating in a time when women had
&gt; less access to education, money, political and social freedom and
&gt; fundamental human rights than men, and stating that the one thing
&gt; they *really* wanted was a small piece of erectile tissue :-)
&gt;

Oooo. Sig? Siggy? Sig sig sig?

Pretty please?

Please?

April.

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#363: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-09 20:29:48 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 09 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: &quot;April Goodwin-Smith&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:agoodwinsmith&#64;shaw.ca" target="_blank">agoodwinsmith&#64;shaw.ca</a>&gt;

&gt; &quot;Diane L&quot; wrote ...
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt; Ah, yes, penis envy. A concept originating in a time when
&gt;&gt; women had less access to education, money, political and
&gt;&gt; social freedom and fundamental human rights than men, and
&gt;&gt; stating that the one thing they *really* wanted was a
&gt;&gt; small piece of erectile tissue :-)
&gt;
&gt; Oooo. Sig? Siggy? Sig sig sig?

That was the guy, yes. (Although I'm not sure anyone called
him &quot;Sig sig sig&quot;...)


--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#364: Re: [I] Formal wear

Posted on 2006-07-09 20:32:02 by Arthur Hagen

Graycat &lt;<a href="mailto:rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; At least in Sweden this is all getting slowly defenestrated
&gt; - (young) people are now picking the type of formalwear they
&gt; like the looks of best for their weddings. So jacquettes at
&gt; night, white tie in the morning, etc.
&gt;
&gt; To me, it seems sensible - if it's your wedding, wear
&gt; clothes you like, no matter what the book says.

Yes, but if you invite guests, you put them in a very difficult position.

(I've been to a wedding where the justice of the peace at first thought /I/
was the groom, because I was the only one wearing a jacket. The groom was
wearing jeans.)

--
*Art

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#365: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-09 20:42:25 by April Goodwin-Smith

&quot;Daibhid Ceanaideach&quot; wrote...
&gt; The speaker: &quot;April Goodwin-Smith&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:agoodwinsmith&#64;shaw.ca" target="_blank">agoodwinsmith&#64;shaw.ca</a>&gt;
&gt;&gt; &quot;Diane L&quot; wrote ...
&gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Ah, yes, penis envy. A concept originating in a time when
&gt;&gt;&gt; women had less access to education, money, political and
&gt;&gt;&gt; social freedom and fundamental human rights than men, and
&gt;&gt;&gt; stating that the one thing they *really* wanted was a
&gt;&gt;&gt; small piece of erectile tissue :-)
&gt;&gt; Oooo. Sig? Siggy? Sig sig sig?
&gt;
&gt; That was the guy, yes. (Although I'm not sure anyone called
&gt; him &quot;Sig sig sig&quot;...)
&gt;
&gt;

Quite possibly if she was encouraging him to use his SBET
with more finesse?

April.

Nice one, by the way. :)

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#366: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-09 21:01:10 by Diane L

April Goodwin-Smith wrote:
&gt; &quot;Diane L&quot; wrote ...
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt; Ah, yes, penis envy. A concept originating in a time when women had
&gt;&gt; less access to education, money, political and social freedom and
&gt;&gt; fundamental human rights than men, and stating that the one thing
&gt;&gt; they *really* wanted was a small piece of erectile tissue :-)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Oooo. Sig? Siggy? Sig sig sig?
&gt;
&gt; Pretty please?
&gt;
&gt; Please?
&gt;
&gt; April.

Er, yes, if you like. You could probably improve the phrasing
and make it a bit more snappy, though. 'Based on an idea by
Diane L' would be fine :-)

Diane L.

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#367: Re: [I] Formal wear

Posted on 2006-07-09 21:17:33 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 09 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: &quot;Arthur Hagen&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt;

&gt; Graycat &lt;<a href="mailto:rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; At least in Sweden this is all getting slowly
&gt;&gt; defenestrated - (young) people are now picking the type of
&gt;&gt; formalwear they like the looks of best for their weddings.
&gt;&gt; So jacquettes at night, white tie in the morning, etc.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; To me, it seems sensible - if it's your wedding, wear
&gt;&gt; clothes you like, no matter what the book says.

Or don't, if that's what you want...

&gt; Yes, but if you invite guests, you put them in a very
&gt; difficult position.

It certainly strikes me as good manners to tell the guests
what you see the dress code as being (this goes for *any* get-
together where it's not what might be assumed, IMO[1]).
Especially in the example I've suggested...

[1]Casual weddings, formal afp meets, Star Trek-themed
funerals, etc...

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#368: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-09 21:19:58 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 09 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: &quot;April Goodwin-Smith&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:agoodwinsmith&#64;shaw.ca" target="_blank">agoodwinsmith&#64;shaw.ca</a>&gt;

&gt; &quot;Daibhid Ceanaideach&quot; wrote...
&gt;&gt; The speaker: &quot;April Goodwin-Smith&quot;
&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:agoodwinsmith&#64;shaw.ca" target="_blank">agoodwinsmith&#64;shaw.ca</a>&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;Diane L&quot; wrote ...
&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Ah, yes, penis envy. A concept originating in a time
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; when women had less access to education, money,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; political and social freedom and fundamental human
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; rights than men, and stating that the one thing they
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; *really* wanted was a small piece of erectile tissue :-)
&gt;&gt;&gt; Oooo. Sig? Siggy? Sig sig sig?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; That was the guy, yes. (Although I'm not sure anyone
&gt;&gt; called him &quot;Sig sig sig&quot;...)
&gt;
&gt; Quite possibly if she was encouraging him to use his SBET
&gt; with more finesse?
&gt;
&gt; April.
&gt;
&gt; Nice one, by the way. :)

Thank you. I'm afraid (afreud?) yours has passed completely
over my head. (I can't get &quot;Small Business Employment
Training&quot; to make sense in context.)

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#369: Re: CI] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-09 21:30:27 by April Goodwin-Smith

&quot;Daibhid Ceanaideach&quot; wrote...
&gt; The speaker: &quot;April Goodwin-Smith&quot;
&gt;&gt; &quot;Daibhid Ceanaideach&quot; wrote...
&gt;&gt;&gt; The speaker: &quot;April Goodwin-Smith&quot;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;Diane L&quot; wrote ...
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Ah, yes, penis envy. A concept originating in a time
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; when women had less access to education, money,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; political and social freedom and fundamental human
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; rights than men, and stating that the one thing they
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; *really* wanted was a small piece of erectile tissue :-)
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Oooo. Sig? Siggy? Sig sig sig?
&gt;&gt;&gt; That was the guy, yes. (Although I'm not sure anyone
&gt;&gt;&gt; called him &quot;Sig sig sig&quot;...)
&gt;&gt; Quite possibly if she was encouraging him to use his SBET
&gt;&gt; with more finesse?
&gt;&gt; Nice one, by the way. :)
&gt;
&gt; Thank you. I'm afraid (afreud?) yours has passed completely
&gt; over my head. (I can't get &quot;Small Business Employment
&gt; Training&quot; to make sense in context.)
&gt;

Er...that's because my &quot;B&quot; should be a &quot;P&quot;.

ah ha ha ha

April.

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#370: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-09 21:31:44 by alec

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:Xns97FBCED6F5A81daibhid&#64;130.133.1.4" target="_blank">Xns97FBCED6F5A81daibhid&#64;130.133.1.4</a>&gt;,
<a href="mailto:daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com</a> says...
&gt; The time: 09 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
&gt; speaker: &quot;April Goodwin-Smith&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:agoodwinsmith&#64;shaw.ca" target="_blank">agoodwinsmith&#64;shaw.ca</a>&gt;
&gt;
&gt; &gt; &quot;Daibhid Ceanaideach&quot; wrote...
&gt; &gt;&gt; The speaker: &quot;April Goodwin-Smith&quot;
&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:agoodwinsmith&#64;shaw.ca" target="_blank">agoodwinsmith&#64;shaw.ca</a>&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;Diane L&quot; wrote ...
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Ah, yes, penis envy. A concept originating in a time
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; when women had less access to education, money,
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; political and social freedom and fundamental human
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; rights than men, and stating that the one thing they
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; *really* wanted was a small piece of erectile tissue :-)
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Oooo. Sig? Siggy? Sig sig sig?
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; That was the guy, yes. (Although I'm not sure anyone
&gt; &gt;&gt; called him &quot;Sig sig sig&quot;...)
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Quite possibly if she was encouraging him to use his SBET
&gt; &gt; with more finesse?
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; April.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Nice one, by the way. :)
&gt;
&gt; Thank you. I'm afraid (afreud?) yours has passed completely
&gt; over my head. (I can't get &quot;Small Business Employment
&gt; Training&quot; to make sense in context.)

At a guess, &quot;Small Bit of Erectile Tissue&quot;

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#371: Re: CI] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-09 21:33:24 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 09 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: &quot;April Goodwin-Smith&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:agoodwinsmith&#64;shaw.ca" target="_blank">agoodwinsmith&#64;shaw.ca</a>&gt;

&gt; &quot;Daibhid Ceanaideach&quot; wrote...

&gt;&gt; Thank you. I'm afraid (afreud?) yours has passed
&gt;&gt; completely over my head. (I can't get &quot;Small Business
&gt;&gt; Employment Training&quot; to make sense in context.)
&gt;
&gt; Er...that's because my &quot;B&quot; should be a &quot;P&quot;.

Ah, gotcha. Although as Alec pointed out, it still works.

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#372: Re: [C] -C- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-09 22:04:49 by April Goodwin-Smith

&quot;Daibhid Ceanaideach&quot; wrote ...
&gt; The speaker: &quot;April Goodwin-Smith&quot; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &quot;Daibhid Ceanaideach&quot; wrote...
&gt;&gt;&gt; Thank you. I'm afraid (afreud?) yours has passed
&gt;&gt;&gt; completely over my head. (I can't get &quot;Small Business
&gt;&gt;&gt; Employment Training&quot; to make sense in context.)
&gt;&gt; Er...that's because my &quot;B&quot; should be a &quot;P&quot;.
&gt;
&gt; Ah, gotcha. Although as Alec pointed out, it still works.
&gt;

Yes. My memory's good for the gist, but not for precision.
I was surprised to look back &amp; see &quot;piece&quot; instead of &quot;bit&quot;.

April.

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#373: Re: [I] Formal wear

Posted on 2006-07-09 22:38:12 by Arthur Hagen

Daibhid Ceanaideach &lt;<a href="mailto:daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; It certainly strikes me as good manners to tell the guests
&gt; what you see the dress code as being (this goes for *any* get-
&gt; together where it's not what might be assumed, IMO[1]).

And try to be precise. To one person, &quot;casual&quot; might mean blazer instead of
suit, with belt and brown shoes allowed, while to another, it might mean
jeans, t-shirt and tennis shoes, stains and holes allowed.

Regards,
--
*Art

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#374: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-09 22:40:43 by Stacie Hanes

Diane L wrote:

&gt; Ah, yes, penis envy. A concept originating in a time when women had
&gt; less access to education, money, political and social freedom and
&gt; fundamental human rights than men, and stating that the one thing
&gt; they *really* wanted was a small piece of erectile tissue :-)

The Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood (according to a journal article I read) had
an in-joke: PRB stood for Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood, *or* &quot;Penis Rather
Better.&quot;

Yep, it wasn't control over her own writing Christina wanted, it was to be
male.

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#375: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-09 23:41:49 by Sofia

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 09:38:29 +0100, Peter Ellis wrote:

&gt; Oh yes. Too many people I've seen seem to have just grabbed for any cut
&gt; &quot;because it's a corset&quot;. Result: instead of &quot;tits on a shelf&quot;, they have
&gt; &quot;dough in a bucket&quot;. *NOT* a good look.


I agree, I always remember how my mother used to wear one of those
playtex all-in-one corsetty thingy's because she was a size 24, and just
wanted to tuk some of her flabby bit's n pieces away - YUK! She still
couldn't hide how massive she used to be though. Maybe catching diabetes
last year was a blessing to her, which seemed to make her rid of 5 stone
in weight, and loads of &quot;dough in a bucket&quot; pretty quickly.

Personally though, I've never actually worn a corset, I don't even measure
my bust size any more - instead I usually go to Debenams and take 3-4
different sports-bra's from the same size I used to be in my teens
(between 36C-38C) off the hangers, and try all of them on in the shop. I
usually end up just buying the two that fit best though, as sports-bra's
really do fit beautifully, and can stretch you about in all sorts of
directions - and they have cup sizes which go right up to size FF, so you
can try them on, and if they aren't exactly right, give them back and try
another one on - it's great!


All the best


Sofie

--
Please visit my deviantART page: <a href="http://sofen.deviantart.com/" target="_blank">http://sofen.deviantart.com/</a>

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#376: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 00:44:22 by Sofia

On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 09:12:22 +0000, Random C wrote:

&gt; I will admit that I sometimes wear a corset to work, but it gives very
&gt; little waist reduction. I wear it because it helps with the monthly back
&gt; and stomach pain. It will be hidden under my clothes and on those days
&gt; my clothes are a lot baggier.
&gt; What you wear affects how people react to you, and sometimes I want a
&gt; different reaction.

Although I mentioned earlier, that I've never worn a corset in my life,
ladies jeans nowadays are all sort of tapered at the waist, and therefore
if you're wearing a pair, they all sort of pull your waist, tummy and
buttocks in anyway, and could kind of double-act as a sort of corset for a
ladies bottom half.

The only trouble is though, although I'm only 5ft 7, it takes me ages
looking for a pair of jeans with a 30-31 inch inside leg length, when the
average pair of jeans nowadays are made for the 5ft 4 inch woman, with a
27 inch inside leg. God help any women taller that myself, they'll
probably end up wearing their men's old jeans with a tight belt perhaps!:)

All the best

Sofie

--
Please visit my deviantART page: <a href="http://sofen.deviantart.com/" target="_blank">http://sofen.deviantart.com/</a>

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#377: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 01:10:27 by Flesh-eating Dragon

Diane L wrote:

&gt; Ah, yes, penis envy. A concept originating in a time when women had
&gt; less access to education, money, political and social freedom and
&gt; fundamental human rights than men, and stating that the one thing
&gt; they *really* wanted was a small piece of erectile tissue :-)

This is the first time I have ever heard the phrase &quot;penis envy&quot; being
used to describe something a _woman_ might have. I thought the term
referred exclusively to the target audience of enlargement spam, who
are without exception males who fail to realise that their real
problem is a small mind.

Adrian.

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#378: Re: [I] -I- Metadoc measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 01:17:55 by Flesh-eating Dragon

esmi wrote:

&gt; Actually 75% of that resource is based upon The Imp Guide (a beginner's
&gt; resource I orginally created about 8 years ago and still maintain). I merely
&gt; altered parts of it to make it directly relevant to AFP. The sections on 'What
&gt; is AFP?', 'Irrelevant vs. Inappropriate', and 'Annotations &amp; Spoilers' were
&gt; based on PerditaX's original guide, published some years back by Murky with
&gt; input from Leo, ppint, myself and Adrian, IIRC.

For the record, the guide was my idea and I wrote the first draft, but
back then I didn't have a website of my own, so I couldn't host it.
Murky volunteered to do so, and in the process he made some changes to
the text. Later, when Murky could no longer host it, PerditaX
volunteered to take it over. Sort of like one of those hot potato
thingies. :-)

Adrian.

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#379: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 03:40:33 by Arthur Hagen

8'FED &lt;<a href="mailto:dragon&#64;netyp.com.au" target="_blank">dragon&#64;netyp.com.au</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Diane L wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Ah, yes, penis envy. A concept originating in a time when women had
&gt;&gt; less access to education, money, political and social freedom and
&gt;&gt; fundamental human rights than men, and stating that the one thing
&gt;&gt; they *really* wanted was a small piece of erectile tissue :-)
&gt;
&gt; This is the first time I have ever heard the phrase &quot;penis envy&quot; being
&gt; used to describe something a _woman_ might have. I thought the term
&gt; referred exclusively to the target audience of enlargement spam, who
&gt; are without exception males who fail to realise that their real
&gt; problem is a small mind.

Read Freud. Or about Freud.

--
*Art

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#380: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 06:23:33 by April Goodwin-Smith

&quot;Diane L&quot; wrote ...
&gt; April Goodwin-Smith wrote:
&gt;&gt; &quot;Diane L&quot; wrote ...
&gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Ah, yes, penis envy. A concept originating in a time when women had
&gt;&gt;&gt; less access to education, money, political and social freedom and
&gt;&gt;&gt; fundamental human rights than men, and stating that the one thing
&gt;&gt;&gt; they *really* wanted was a small piece of erectile tissue :-)
&gt;&gt; Oooo. Sig? Siggy? Sig sig sig?
&gt;&gt; Pretty please? Please?
&gt; Er, yes, if you like. You could probably improve the phrasing
&gt; and make it a bit more snappy, though. 'Based on an idea by
&gt; Diane L' would be fine :-)
&gt;

I think the phrasing is just fine the way it is. Thank you.
Now all I have to do is remember how to set a sig.

:)

April.

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#381: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 07:51:48 by tms

mcv wrote:
&gt; T.M. Sommers &lt;<a href="mailto:tms&#64;nj.net" target="_blank">tms&#64;nj.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;8'FED wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;40AA is the entire number. 0x is but an indicator defined by certain
&gt;&gt;&gt;programming languages, and to the best of my knowledge, nobody on afp
&gt;&gt;&gt;is programmed in any of those languages [1].
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Igors, of course, are programmed in Lisp.
&gt;
&gt; Or possibly one of the lesser known programming languages[1]: Lithp, utheful
&gt; for prothething lithtth.

Let's see. Trolls must be programmed in Ruby. Vetinari in
Scheme, or perhaps Powerbuilder. Yetis in Snobol. The Guild of
Seamstresses in Forth, a threaded language (not to mention
various puns on 'stack'). Dwarves in a little language like awk,
or maybe in Smalltalk. Wizards in Intercal, which just seems
appropriate somehow. Carrot in Rexx.

--
Thomas M. Sommers -- <a href="mailto:tms&#64;nj.net" target="_blank">tms&#64;nj.net</a> -- AB2SB

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#382: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 10:53:07 by Paul Harman

&quot;Random C&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:random&#64;panatropic.net" target="_blank">random&#64;panatropic.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:rLKrg.98228$<a href="mailto:wl.73548&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk..." target="_blank">wl.73548&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...</a>
&gt; Given that my natural waist at that time was 26&quot;, would you like to hazard
&gt; a guess as to the waist size provided by that corset?


Not particularly, no - I find it hazardous to my health to speculate on the
size of women };*)

It probably wasn't anywhere near as much as it looks though.

Paul

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#383: Re: [I] Formal wear

Posted on 2006-07-10 11:06:08 by Paul Harman

&quot;Arthur Hagen&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:e8rpfk$koo$<a href="mailto:1&#64;tree.broomstick.com..." target="_blank">1&#64;tree.broomstick.com...</a>
&gt; And try to be precise. To one person, &quot;casual&quot; might mean blazer instead
&gt; of suit, with belt and brown shoes allowed, while to another, it might
&gt; mean jeans, t-shirt and tennis shoes, stains and holes allowed.


Indeed. I spent Sunday in the company of the, er, posher end of my family at
a 'do' at Hampton Court golf club. The dress code was &quot;Smart Casual&quot;.

Now I'm in the group that thinks that &quot;smart casual&quot; basically means &quot;no
denim&quot;... however baring in mind who was going and what the venue was, I
went in work trousers and shirt. I considered taking a tie, but thought
against it.

Now, no-one else actually turned up in a morning suit, but I felt
conspicuous that I was practically the only man there without blazer and
tie. Maybe it's a generation thing.

I *hate* &quot;smart casual&quot;; it's meaningless if not actually a tautology.

Paul

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#384: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 11:06:56 by esmi

on 09/07/2006 23:44 Sofia said the following:
&lt;snip&gt;
&gt; The only trouble is though, although I'm only 5ft 7,

Only? Only!

&gt; it takes me ages
&gt; looking for a pair of jeans with a 30-31 inch inside leg length, when the
&gt; average pair of jeans nowadays are made for the 5ft 4 inch woman, with a
&gt; 27 inch inside leg.

Some of us have the complete opposite problem - what with being only a
tad over 5ft 2 and having short legs. I think I've turned shortening
jeans into an art form!

--
esmi

A Brief Guide to alt.fan.pratchett:
<a href="http://www.blackwidows.co.uk/afp-guide/" target="_blank">http://www.blackwidows.co.uk/afp-guide/</a>

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#385: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 13:19:43 by matt

On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 01:51:48 -0400, T.M. Sommers wrote:

&gt; mcv wrote:
&gt;&gt; T.M. Sommers &lt;<a href="mailto:tms&#64;nj.net" target="_blank">tms&#64;nj.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;8'FED wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;40AA is the entire number. 0x is but an indicator defined by certain
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;programming languages, and to the best of my knowledge, nobody on afp
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;is programmed in any of those languages [1].
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Igors, of course, are programmed in Lisp.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Or possibly one of the lesser known programming languages[1]: Lithp,
&gt;&gt; utheful for prothething lithtth.
&gt;
&gt; Let's see. Trolls must be programmed in Ruby. Vetinari in Scheme, or
&gt; perhaps Powerbuilder. Yetis in Snobol. The Guild of Seamstresses in
&gt; Forth, a threaded language (not to mention various puns on 'stack').
&gt; Dwarves in a little language like awk, or maybe in Smalltalk. Wizards in
&gt; Intercal, which just seems appropriate somehow. Carrot in Rexx.

Trolls can also be programmed in bash, COBOL, Perl, or Opal (water-trolls
are programmed in C). Dwarves might be programmed in StrongArm Assembler.

--
Matt

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#386: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 13:21:15 by matt

On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 12:19:43 +0100, Matt wrote:

&gt; On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 01:51:48 -0400, T.M. Sommers wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; mcv wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; T.M. Sommers &lt;<a href="mailto:tms&#64;nj.net" target="_blank">tms&#64;nj.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Igors, of course, are programmed in Lisp.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Or possibly one of the lesser known programming languages[1]: Lithp,
&gt;&gt;&gt; utheful for prothething lithtth.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Let's see. Trolls must be programmed in Ruby. Vetinari in Scheme, or
&gt;&gt; perhaps Powerbuilder. Yetis in Snobol. The Guild of Seamstresses in
&gt;&gt; Forth, a threaded language (not to mention various puns on 'stack').
&gt;&gt; Dwarves in a little language like awk, or maybe in Smalltalk. Wizards
&gt;&gt; in Intercal, which just seems appropriate somehow. Carrot in Rexx.
&gt;
&gt; Trolls can also be programmed in bash, COBOL, Perl, or Opal (water-trolls
&gt; are programmed in C). Dwarves might be programmed in StrongArm Assembler.

And the librarian, of course, is programmed in Ook!

--
Matt

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#387: Re: [I] Business attire

Posted on 2006-07-10 14:09:57 by the Tinfoil Hat of Reason

On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 06:27:40 +1000, a collection of particles arranged in
such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as mcv, influenced
tha intarweb to propagate the following:

&gt; I have a friend who seems to make a point of always wearing mismatched
&gt; socks. Probably because it fits his nerd image.
&gt;
&gt; My socks are all black, so even if I wear mismatched socks, nobody'd be
&gt; able to tell.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; mcv.

I own a pair of leftovers[0], same brand/size/style/length, however one
is bone and one is blue. Every now and then I wear them to see if anyone
is watching. So far, the results aren't promising...

[0] One sock here, one sock there...

--
C:\&gt;

&quot;Where do want to go today?&quot; &quot;I'm thinking <a href="http://gentoo.org" target="_blank">http://gentoo.org</a>&quot;

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#388: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 14:30:48 by tms

Matt wrote:
&gt; On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 01:51:48 -0400, T.M. Sommers wrote:
&gt;&gt;mcv wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;T.M. Sommers &lt;<a href="mailto:tms&#64;nj.net" target="_blank">tms&#64;nj.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;8'FED wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;40AA is the entire number. 0x is but an indicator defined by certain
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;programming languages, and to the best of my knowledge, nobody on afp
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;is programmed in any of those languages [1].
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Igors, of course, are programmed in Lisp.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Or possibly one of the lesser known programming languages[1]: Lithp,
&gt;&gt;&gt;utheful for prothething lithtth.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Let's see. Trolls must be programmed in Ruby. Vetinari in Scheme, or
&gt;&gt;perhaps Powerbuilder. Yetis in Snobol. The Guild of Seamstresses in
&gt;&gt;Forth, a threaded language (not to mention various puns on 'stack').
&gt;&gt;Dwarves in a little language like awk, or maybe in Smalltalk. Wizards in
&gt;&gt;Intercal, which just seems appropriate somehow. Carrot in Rexx.
&gt;
&gt; Trolls can also be programmed in bash,

That's just vicious dwarven propaganda.

&gt; Perl,

Too organic.

--
Thomas M. Sommers -- <a href="mailto:tms&#64;nj.net" target="_blank">tms&#64;nj.net</a> -- AB2SB

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#389: Re: -I- All things Kiltish, was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 14:32:10 by the Tinfoil Hat of Reason

On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 22:34:10 +1000, a collection of particles arranged in
such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as mcv, influenced
tha intarweb to propagate the following:

&gt;
&gt; You could buy that leather sex god kilt and see if that helps.
&gt;

Sir, If 'David' himself[0] were to be garbed, it would be in that particular
Item. However, 1000 .au pesos is not a wager that i can afford to make.
OTOH, I might possibly persuade her that _she_ might... I'll try her on
the black first. Our waistlines are similar (men are such skinny buggers)

[0] Not for a moment implying that you wouldn't think 'Michaelangelo'.
--
C:\&gt;

&quot;Where do want to go today?&quot; &quot;I'm thinking <a href="http://gentoo.org" target="_blank">http://gentoo.org</a>&quot;

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#390: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 14:38:18 by tms

Matt wrote:
&gt;
&gt; And the librarian, of course, is programmed in Ook!

Amazing. A language obviously created specifically for a
Pratchett character:

<a href="http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/ook.html" target="_blank">http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/ook.html</a>

--
Thomas M. Sommers -- <a href="mailto:tms&#64;nj.net" target="_blank">tms&#64;nj.net</a> -- AB2SB

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#391: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 15:01:21 by Julian Hall

On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 10:06:56 +0100, esmi wrote:

&gt; on 09/07/2006 23:44 Sofia said the following:
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt; The only trouble is though, although I'm only 5ft 7,
&gt;
&gt; Only? Only!
&gt;
&gt;&gt; it takes me ages
&gt;&gt; looking for a pair of jeans with a 30-31 inch inside leg length, when the
&gt;&gt; average pair of jeans nowadays are made for the 5ft 4 inch woman, with a
&gt;&gt; 27 inch inside leg.
&gt;
&gt; Some of us have the complete opposite problem - what with being only a
&gt; tad over 5ft 2 and having short legs. I think I've turned shortening
&gt; jeans into an art form!

Ditto.. 4'8 is FUN *cough*

If I get the waist right a pair of shorts can be made out of the
cutoffs *lol*
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#392: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 15:05:36 by Julian Hall

On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 19:56:44 +0000, Anastasia wrote:

&gt; I'm not a minion, I'm an admiring ally. And Random is one of those high-end
&gt; sort that makes me wonder if there's a place for in the Organization.
&gt; Seamstress to the Empire....

(Yoda_mode==TRUE)
Hrrmm.. Stitch.. always two there are.... the Mistress and her minion
(Yoda_moda)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#393: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 15:27:57 by Lister

On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 08:38:18 -0400, &quot;T.M. Sommers&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:tms&#64;nj.net" target="_blank">tms&#64;nj.net</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Matt wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; And the librarian, of course, is programmed in Ook!
&gt;
&gt;Amazing. A language obviously created specifically for a
&gt;Pratchett character:
&gt;
&gt;<a href="http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/ook.html" target="_blank">http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/ook.html</a>


But they forgot Eek, which could give quite a few more commands :)

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#394: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 15:42:59 by Julian Hall

On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 12:56:33 +0000, mcv wrote:

&gt; I don't think it'd be very polite to wear without trouser.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; mcv.

That would depend on the weare.. never mind...
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#395: Re: [I] Odd socks // was Business attire

Posted on 2006-07-10 15:46:12 by Flesh-eating Dragon

James Mitchelhill wrote:

&gt; I tend to wear mismatched socks. Mainly because the parts of my brain
&gt; that think &quot;fashion blunder&quot; don't work before 10am.

I match up my socks when hanging them on the washing line - i.e.
matching socks get hung next to each other. Then it's easy to fold
them into pairs when they're dry, and store the folded pairs in the
cupboard as nature intended.

It seems really strange to me that anyone would store socks
individually in a drawer, rather than storing them in pairs that are
folded together only as often as the washing is done. Every sock in
the drawer should be attached to another of its kind, making it
impossible to accidentally select odd ones in the morning.

I keep enough clothes that I only have to do the washing once a
fortnight, and when I buy new socks, I like to buy them in groups of
three identical pairs, which makes it easier to find matching pairs
when hanging out the washing. However, I avoid buying socks that are
similar but not identical to socks I already have (i.e. which might
_look_ matched in a poor light, but actually aren't). That's the
problem I had when I used to have a lot of black socks: they were
mostly _different_ black socks, and therefore harder to match than
socks that were actually different colours. Now I check what colours
I already have before shopping, and avoid buying more of the same.

I hardly ever lose socks, except when I've been away somewhere, in
which case I am often a sock short after I get back and unpack the
suitcase. Currently I have three socks whose partners are missing.

Umm ... that's all I can think of to say about socks right now.

Adrian.

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#396: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 15:50:00 by Julian Hall

On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 07:04:27 +0000, Anastasia wrote:

&gt; I'd probably look like a boy anyway, so who cares? Sorry, that gets my
&gt; dander up.

Persnally I've never been one for convention so I would say:

If *you* like it then wear it, if other people don't like it they don't
have to look do they? :)

Rather like 'Scandalised of Stroud'[1] writing into the BBC complaining
about a 12 episode series on female bondage[2]. Scandalised fails to spot
the irony of their having sat through the entire 12 hours (without missing
an episode!) in order to complain about it, instead of just changing
channel on the TV :)

[1] Mythical
[2] Again Mythical[3]
[3] Wahh! ;)

--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#397: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 15:53:54 by Julian Hall

On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 07:04:27 +0000, Anastasia wrote:

&gt; That's the sort of scandal I might enjoy. I think it's garbage. I wouldn't
&gt; want to ruin anyone's personal event, but I'd have no problems wearing a tux
&gt; to a public sort of thing.

My heroes btw were Status Quo at their 25th Anniversary bash a few years
back. They were invited up on stage and asked if they would do a set.

Both were dressed in formal wear, top hat etc.

Frank looks at Rick... both rip off their *velcroed* suits to do the set
in their denims worn underneath :)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#398: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 15:57:08 by Julian Hall

On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 12:29:44 +0200, Graycat wrote:

&gt; Actually, a tux on a woman could well be formal wear - at
&gt; least on the less formal end of the formal speectrum a
&gt; trouser suit is perfectly acceptable on women too, here at
&gt; any rate.

Anyone who doesn't think it's formal wear for a lady has presumably not
seen any of the Poirot, Miss Marple etc episodes[1] where the
non-conformist member of the family has aggravated the others by wearing
same. It looks very stylish indeed IMHO :)

[1] fiction I know, but someone did research presumably
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#399: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 15:59:34 by Julian Hall

On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 21:43:27 +0000, Lesley Weston wrote:

&gt; Lederhosen? Miss Brahms looked pretty good in them, though not as good as
&gt; Mr. Humphries.

As long as it's not Mr Rumbold - although he could always polish his head
with.... no actually.. ick.. never mind.

Hmm Young Mr Grace' nurse or secretary now....
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#400: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 16:15:14 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 10 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: Julian Hall &lt;<a href="mailto:lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk" target="_blank">lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk</a>&gt;

&gt; Rather like 'Scandalised of Stroud'[1] writing into the BBC
&gt; complaining about a 12 episode series on female bondage[2].
&gt; Scandalised fails to spot the irony of their having sat
&gt; through the entire 12 hours (without missing an episode!)
&gt; in order to complain about it, instead of just changing
&gt; channel on the TV :)

I recall a Doctor Who novel in which an obvious Mary
Whitehouse parody subscribes to the adult channels, so she
knows what people shouldn't be allowed to watch...

On a related note, I believe (but CBW) that people used to
write in to the BBC complaining that the Goon Show was using
the punchlines (without the setups) of dirty jokes. The
Goons' response was that anyone who understood the references
sufficiently to be shocked had no business being shocked.

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#401: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 16:45:41 by Helen

Sofia wrote:
&gt;
&gt; The only trouble is though, although I'm only 5ft 7, it takes me ages
&gt; looking for a pair of jeans with a 30-31 inch inside leg length, when the
&gt; average pair of jeans nowadays are made for the 5ft 4 inch woman, with a
&gt; 27 inch inside leg. God help any women taller that myself, they'll
&gt; probably end up wearing their men's old jeans with a tight belt perhaps!:)
&gt;

Ha! I'm 5ft 5 and I struggle to find trousers with short enough legs.
Maybe they make trousers with varying leg length so they don't fit
anyone!

Helen

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#402: Re: [I] -I- .I. *I* $I$ III !I! ...a herd of irrelevants

Posted on 2006-07-10 17:09:27 by Brenda

Daibhid Ceanaideach said:

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; On a related note, I believe (but CBW) that people used to
&gt; write in to the BBC complaining that the Goon Show was using
&gt; the punchlines (without the setups) of dirty jokes.

(From the context, I presume that the punchlines themselves sounded innocent
enough, albeit possibly incomprehensible to those who lacked the relevant
experiential context.)

&gt; The
&gt; Goons' response was that anyone who understood the references
&gt; sufficiently to be shocked had no business being shocked.

Good for them. TP seems to have much the same policy in the Discworld
novels. Would that afp would adopt it too.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#403: Re: [I] towns - was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 17:16:57 by elfin

[remobved the double tag and resubjected]
On 10/07/2006 14:50, Julian Hall wrote:

&gt; Rather like 'Scandalised of Stroud'[1]

I think we used to have someone on here from Stroud, or had moved to
that area!

elfin

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#404: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 17:17:37 by Mike Stevens

Helen T wrote:
&gt; Maybe they make trousers with varying leg length

Now there's an interesting thought. You go out in the morning wearing
shorts,l and by evening they're full-length. Or vice versa.


--
Mike Stevens
narrowboat Felis Catus III
web-site www.mike-stevens.co.uk

No man is an island. So is Man.

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#405: Re: [I] -I- .I. *I* $I$ III !I! ...a herd of irrelevants

Posted on 2006-07-10 17:34:05 by Brian Howlett

On 10 Jul, Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; Daibhid Ceanaideach said:
&gt;
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; On a related note, I believe (but CBW) that people used to write in to
&gt;&gt; the BBC complaining that the Goon Show was using the punchlines
&gt;&gt; (without the setups) of dirty jokes.
&gt;
&gt; (From the context, I presume that the punchlines themselves sounded
&gt; innocent enough, albeit possibly incomprehensible to those who lacked
&gt; the relevant experiential context.)

One such example that springs to mind - &quot;It's your turn in the
barrel!&quot;
&gt;
[snip]
&gt;
--
Brian Howlett - Email to From: address deleted unseen
-----------------------------------------------------
He's fallen in the water!

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#406: Re: [I] -I- .I. *I* $I$ III !I! ...a herd of irrelevants

Posted on 2006-07-10 17:43:35 by Brenda

Brian Howlett said:

&gt; On 10 Jul, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Daibhid Ceanaideach said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; On a related note, I believe (but CBW) that people used to write in to
&gt;&gt;&gt; the BBC complaining that the Goon Show was using the punchlines
&gt;&gt;&gt; (without the setups) of dirty jokes.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; (From the context, I presume that the punchlines themselves sounded
&gt;&gt; innocent enough, albeit possibly incomprehensible to those who lacked
&gt;&gt; the relevant experiential context.)
&gt;
&gt; One such example that springs to mind - &quot;It's your turn in the
&gt; barrel!&quot;

Ah. Well, I simply wouldn't know where to /start/ being offended by that.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#407: Re: [I] towns - was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 17:44:32 by Diane L

elfin wrote:
&gt; [remobved the double tag and resubjected]
&gt; On 10/07/2006 14:50, Julian Hall wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Rather like 'Scandalised of Stroud'[1]
&gt;
&gt; I think we used to have someone on here from Stroud, or had moved to
&gt; that area!

No wonder the inhabitants were scandalised.

Diane L.

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#408: Re: [I] Odd socks // was Business attire

Posted on 2006-07-10 17:55:29 by naath

&gt;It seems really strange to me that anyone would store socks
&gt;individually in a drawer, rather than storing them in pairs that are
&gt;folded together only as often as the washing is done. Every sock in
&gt;the drawer should be attached to another of its kind, making it
&gt;impossible to accidentally select odd ones in the morning.


I have overcome the tyranny of the sock drawer - I just put all my socks
in a big jumble and grab any two if I want a pair, not caring if they
match or not. This saves me lots of time. (Then again if I'm wearing
socks I'm probably wearing knee high boots so you can't see that I'm
wearing odd socks). It's much more annoying with stockings, many of
which are *allmost* the same colour and which look very silly
missmatched.

naath

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#409: Re: [I] -I- .I. *I* $I$ III !I! ...a herd of irrelevants

Posted on 2006-07-10 18:27:42 by Brian Howlett

On 10 Jul, Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; Brian Howlett said:

[snip]
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; One such example that springs to mind - &quot;It's your turn in the
&gt;&gt; barrel!&quot;
&gt;
&gt; Ah. Well, I simply wouldn't know where to /start/ being offended by that.
&gt;
Here's one version of the joke:
<a href="http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/old90/barrel.html" target="_blank">http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/old90/barrel.html</a>

Another in the .sig ;)
--
Brian Howlett - Email to From: address deleted unseen
-----------------------------------------------------
You can't get the wood, you know!

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#410: Re: [I] Formal wear

Posted on 2006-07-10 18:53:42 by Graycat

On Sun, 9 Jul 2006 14:32:02 -0400, &quot;Arthur Hagen&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt; jotted down:

&gt;Graycat &lt;<a href="mailto:rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; At least in Sweden this is all getting slowly defenestrated
&gt;&gt; - (young) people are now picking the type of formalwear they
&gt;&gt; like the looks of best for their weddings. So jacquettes at
&gt;&gt; night, white tie in the morning, etc.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; To me, it seems sensible - if it's your wedding, wear
&gt;&gt; clothes you like, no matter what the book says.
&gt;
&gt;Yes, but if you invite guests, you put them in a very difficult position.

Not if you specify what the dresscode is on the invitation.
Which people tend to do for weddings.

--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
The Oswalds DW casting award - Vote Now!
<a href="http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html</a>

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#411: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 19:34:45 by Eric Jarvis

esmi <a href="mailto:esmi&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">esmi&#64;lspace.org</a> wrote in &lt;e8t5cv$1us8$<a href="mailto:1&#64;mud.stack.nl" target="_blank">1&#64;mud.stack.nl</a>&gt;:
&gt;
&gt; I think I've turned shortening jeans into an art form!
&gt;

As I understand it that only works if you first pickle them in
formaldehyde and then shorten them with a chainsaw.

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
&quot;live fast, die only if strictly necessary&quot;

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#412: Re: [I] Formal wear

Posted on 2006-07-10 19:43:52 by raltbos

&quot;Arthur Hagen&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; Graycat &lt;<a href="mailto:rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; At least in Sweden this is all getting slowly defenestrated
&gt; &gt; - (young) people are now picking the type of formalwear they
&gt; &gt; like the looks of best for their weddings. So jacquettes at
&gt; &gt; night, white tie in the morning, etc.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; To me, it seems sensible - if it's your wedding, wear
&gt; &gt; clothes you like, no matter what the book says.
&gt;
&gt; Yes, but if you invite guests, you put them in a very difficult position.

That's why you put the dress code on the card, if it is different from
what could reasonably expected, or if expectations can reasonably vary
(and also if it _is_ what is expected, if it matters a lot to you).

Richard

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#413: Re: [I] Odd socks // was Business attire

Posted on 2006-07-10 19:50:31 by Random C

8'FED wrote:
&gt; James Mitchelhill wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;I tend to wear mismatched socks. Mainly because the parts of my brain
&gt;&gt;that think &quot;fashion blunder&quot; don't work before 10am.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I match up my socks when hanging them on the washing line - i.e.
&gt; matching socks get hung next to each other. Then it's easy to fold
&gt; them into pairs when they're dry, and store the folded pairs in the
&gt; cupboard as nature intended.
&gt;
&gt; It seems really strange to me that anyone would store socks
&gt; individually in a drawer, rather than storing them in pairs that are
&gt; folded together only as often as the washing is done. Every sock in
&gt; the drawer should be attached to another of its kind, making it
&gt; impossible to accidentally select odd ones in the morning.
&gt;
&gt; I keep enough clothes that I only have to do the washing once a
&gt; fortnight, and when I buy new socks, I like to buy them in groups of
&gt; three identical pairs, which makes it easier to find matching pairs
&gt; when hanging out the washing. However, I avoid buying socks that are
&gt; similar but not identical to socks I already have (i.e. which might
&gt; _look_ matched in a poor light, but actually aren't). That's the
&gt; problem I had when I used to have a lot of black socks: they were
&gt; mostly _different_ black socks, and therefore harder to match than
&gt; socks that were actually different colours. Now I check what colours
&gt; I already have before shopping, and avoid buying more of the same.
&gt;
&gt; I hardly ever lose socks, except when I've been away somewhere, in
&gt; which case I am often a sock short after I get back and unpack the
&gt; suitcase. Currently I have three socks whose partners are missing.
&gt;
&gt; Umm ... that's all I can think of to say about socks right now.
&gt;
&gt; Adrian.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
I do not currently have control of my own washing. Apparently all
housework I try to do has been done 'the wrong way' and therefore needs
to be re-done. Aside from putting more salt in the dishwasher, as mother
seems incapable of doing so herself.
Most of my socks are black ankle socks. If thrown in the appropriate
place, in pairs, they will magically appear back in my sock drawer, in
balls of two, most of which will be odd. Even when I threw out all my
black socks and bought 15 identical pairs in tesco. I think they started
socialising with mother's.
--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#414: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 19:56:26 by Random C

Sofia wrote:

&gt; Although I mentioned earlier, that I've never worn a corset in my life,
&gt; ladies jeans nowadays are all sort of tapered at the waist, and therefore
&gt; if you're wearing a pair, they all sort of pull your waist, tummy and
&gt; buttocks in anyway, and could kind of double-act as a sort of corset for a
&gt; ladies bottom half.

WHERE DO YOU SHOP?!
*cough* Sorry. I have not managed to get a pair of non-stretch jeans
that came anywhere near my waist without being in danger of exploding
round the hips since, er... 1994 I think it was.
&gt;
&gt; The only trouble is though, although I'm only 5ft 7, it takes me ages
&gt; looking for a pair of jeans with a 30-31 inch inside leg length, when the
&gt; average pair of jeans nowadays are made for the 5ft 4 inch woman, with a
&gt; 27 inch inside leg. God help any women taller that myself, they'll
&gt; probably end up wearing their men's old jeans with a tight belt perhaps!:)
&gt;
Ah. I am 5'4&quot; tall. I once tried on some trousers in Zara. The hems were
past my toes. Also, I bought a dress in there, without trying it on.
I've given it to Nikki (well over 6') because even in platforms with, I
believe, a 7&quot; heel, I kept treading on it.

--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#415: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 20:01:29 by Random C

Paul Harman wrote:
&gt; &quot;Random C&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:random&#64;panatropic.net" target="_blank">random&#64;panatropic.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:rLKrg.98228$<a href="mailto:wl.73548&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk..." target="_blank">wl.73548&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...</a>
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Given that my natural waist at that time was 26&quot;, would you like to hazard
&gt;&gt;a guess as to the waist size provided by that corset?
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Not particularly, no - I find it hazardous to my health to speculate on the
&gt; size of women };*)
&gt;
The tighest that corset can possibly go is 23&quot;. It was worn with a gap,
so it was probably about 24&quot;. While it pushes everything in considerably
at the sides, what actually happens is that a lot of it goes *forwards*
rather than compressing. The front busk is very stiff and completely
straight, and the pointy bit at the bottom comes nowhere near my body.
--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#416: Re: [I] Odd socks // was Business attire

Posted on 2006-07-10 22:05:18 by Arthur Hagen

8'FED &lt;<a href="mailto:dragon&#64;netyp.com.au" target="_blank">dragon&#64;netyp.com.au</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; I hardly ever lose socks,

A euphemism for &quot;I hardly ever do laundry&quot;.

Regards,
--
*Art

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#417: Re: [I] Odd socks // was Business attire

Posted on 2006-07-10 22:06:42 by Arthur Hagen

Naath (Helen) Cousins &lt;<a href="mailto:naath&#64;chiark.greenend.org.uk" target="_blank">naath&#64;chiark.greenend.org.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; I have overcome the tyranny of the sock drawer - I just put all my
&gt; socks in a big jumble and grab any two if I want a pair, not caring
&gt; if they match or not. This saves me lots of time. (Then again if
&gt; I'm wearing socks I'm probably wearing knee high boots so you can't
&gt; see that I'm wearing odd socks). It's much more annoying with
&gt; stockings, many of which are *allmost* the same colour and which look
&gt; very silly missmatched.

As long as you don't get mismatched pantyhice.

Regards,
--
*Art

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#418: Re: [I] Odd socks // was Business attire

Posted on 2006-07-10 22:24:17 by carol

Random C &lt;<a href="mailto:random&#64;panatropic.net" target="_blank">random&#64;panatropic.net</a>&gt; wrote:


&gt; Most of my socks are black ankle socks. If thrown in the appropriate
&gt; place, in pairs, they will magically appear back in my sock drawer, in
&gt; balls of two, most of which will be odd. Even when I threw out all my
&gt; black socks and bought 15 identical pairs in tesco. I think they started
&gt; socialising with mother's.

Have you tried sockies? They're little plastic doobries into which you
insert a pair of socks to keeps them together in the wash.

I bought mine in Morrisons and they work pretty well - they do
disintegrate eventually (probably bitten in half by a grumpy Eater Of
Socks), but they last a couple of years at least.

--
Carol
&quot;I can't stress this enough. Edible ball bearings. Masterpiece.&quot;
- The Doctor

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#419: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-10 23:01:59 by Sofia

On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:56:26 +0000, Random C wrote:

&gt; Sofia wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Although I mentioned earlier, that I've never worn a corset in my life,
&gt;&gt; ladies jeans nowadays are all sort of tapered at the waist, and therefore
&gt;&gt; if you're wearing a pair, they all sort of pull your waist, tummy and
&gt;&gt; buttocks in anyway, and could kind of double-act as a sort of corset for a
&gt;&gt; ladies bottom half.
&gt;
&gt; WHERE DO YOU SHOP?!
&gt; *cough* Sorry. I have not managed to get a pair of non-stretch jeans
&gt; that came anywhere near my waist without being in danger of exploding
&gt; round the hips since, er... 1994 I think it was.

Umm - I could always suggest you buy one size larger than your own size.
I personally take a size 12, but I keep a few size 14's in the cupboard,
as I know I'm going to grow slightly bigger during my menstrual cycle.

&gt; Ah. I am 5'4&quot; tall. I once tried on some trousers in Zara. The hems were
&gt; past my toes. Also, I bought a dress in there, without trying it on.
&gt; I've given it to Nikki (well over 6') because even in platforms with, I
&gt; believe, a 7&quot; heel, I kept treading on it.

You wear 7&quot; heels, how on earth do you walk in them?! I wear completely
flat shoes - hubbys 5ft 10, and I don't want to look taller than him
walking side by side on the street.

As for the jeans, I wish I could find a pair that long down here in
Crawley, West Sussex. It was much easier when I lived down in London, but
other than a small Town Centre here, most of this place is covered in
trees, parks and small handfuls of local shops - I feel like I'm living in
Royston Vasey! :-)


All the best

Sofie

--
Please visit my deviantART page: <a href="http://sofen.deviantart.com/" target="_blank">http://sofen.deviantart.com/</a>

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#420: Re: [I] Odd socks // was Business attire

Posted on 2006-07-10 23:30:29 by Kimberley Verburg

8'FED wrote:
&gt; James Mitchelhill wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I tend to wear mismatched socks. Mainly because the parts of my brain
&gt;&gt; that think &quot;fashion blunder&quot; don't work before 10am.
&gt;
&gt; I match up my socks when hanging them on the washing line - i.e.
&gt; matching socks get hung next to each other. Then it's easy to fold
&gt; them into pairs when they're dry, and store the folded pairs in the
&gt; cupboard as nature intended.

Another heretical sock folder! Roll them up and stuff them into a ball
so that the crafty beasties have no chance of straying into the Sock
Monster's maw. It's the one true way.

--
Kimberley Verburg
<a href="mailto:kim&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">kim&#64;lspace.org</a>

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#421: Re: [I] Odd socks // was Business attire

Posted on 2006-07-10 23:38:54 by Sofia

On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:50:31 +0000, Random C wrote:

&gt; I do not currently have control of my own washing. Apparently all
&gt; housework I try to do has been done 'the wrong way' and therefore needs
&gt; to be re-done. Aside from putting more salt in the dishwasher, as mother
&gt; seems incapable of doing so herself.
&gt; Most of my socks are black ankle socks. If thrown in the appropriate
&gt; place, in pairs, they will magically appear back in my sock drawer, in
&gt; balls of two, most of which will be odd. Even when I threw out all my
&gt; black socks and bought 15 identical pairs in tesco. I think they started
&gt; socialising with mother's.

A relation similar to this happens between hubby and myself, only the
other way round to you and your mother. He usually sticks all our clothes
together in the washing machine, and when they've finished being cleaned,
I take them out the machine, hang everything up tidily, separating what
needs to be separated, pairing what needs to be paired etc, and then
folding up all his (and my) clothes and putting them in their correct
place afterwards for him. I think it's one of the features he adores best
about me! :-)

All the best

Sofie

--
Please visit my deviantART page: <a href="http://sofen.deviantart.com/" target="_blank">http://sofen.deviantart.com/</a>

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#422: Re: [I} Formal clothing (was: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting)

Posted on 2006-07-11 00:04:56 by raltbos

Daibhid Ceanaideach &lt;<a href="mailto:daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; The time: 08 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
&gt; speaker: &quot;Arthur Hagen&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt;
&gt;
&gt; &gt; For free men (as opposed to the peerage and functionaries),
&gt; &gt; the only thing trumping white tie and court dress are
&gt; &gt; national costumes, which are always appropriate when
&gt; &gt; authentic and worn by someone entitled to wear them.
&gt;
&gt; Depends what you mean by &quot;authentic&quot;. Do you think I'd get a
&gt; better reception at a formal function dressed like this:
&gt; <a href="http://scotwebstore.com/club_images/items/sr_swhdr_princecharlieblack.jpg" target="_blank"> http://scotwebstore.com/club_images/items/sr_swhdr_princecha rlieblack.jpg</a>

Depends on the function. At a royal visit to Scotland, you might. At a
London society ball, you'd probably be received with all the égards and
respect that is due to a native chieftain.

Richard

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#423: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 00:04:59 by raltbos

&quot;Diane L&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:dianenews&#64;lindquist.plus.com" target="_blank">dianenews&#64;lindquist.plus.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; Arthur Hagen wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; It is intentionally provocative. And usually worn with suits cut to
&gt; &gt;&gt; exaggerate the feminine form. It means &quot;I, a woman, am invading your
&gt; &gt;&gt; territiry, but remaining womany. What are you going to do about it?&quot;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Of course, the message received by the male mind might be &quot;I have
&gt; &gt; penis envy&quot;.
&gt;
&gt; Ah, yes, penis envy. A concept originating in a time when women had
&gt; less access to education, money, political and social freedom and
&gt; fundamental human rights than men, and stating that the one thing
&gt; they *really* wanted was a small piece of erectile tissue :-)

No, a _large_ piece of erectile tissue, of course.

And it stands to reason. Money, power, it's all completely unimportant.
Nothing has any significance unless it can be boiled down to the one
thing that underlies every single action any human being performs: sex.
It's nothing unique to women; men have uterus envy, little girls want to
shag their daddy and little boys their mum.

In other words, it's not so much sexist as a specific application of the
general observation that Freud's a fraud.

Richard

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#424: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 00:19:46 by Sofia

On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 04:23:33 +0000, April Goodwin-Smith wrote:

&gt;&gt;&gt; Oooo. Sig? Siggy? Sig sig sig?
&gt;&gt;&gt; Pretty please? Please?
&gt;&gt; Er, yes, if you like. You could probably improve the phrasing
&gt;&gt; and make it a bit more snappy, though. 'Based on an idea by
&gt;&gt; Diane L' would be fine :-)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I think the phrasing is just fine the way it is. Thank you.
&gt; Now all I have to do is remember how to set a sig.


Ummm - well I've never actually asked for it this way either April, but it
sounds really cute'n'sweet - I think I'll have to remember to ask for it
like this too next time.

I wonder Diane if you could also tell me, as I'm yearning to know - are
there any really great actions that I should also be adding to the &quot;Siggy
sig sig&quot; that are suppose to go with it to make it even sweeter?


All the best

Sofie

--
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#425: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 00:32:10 by Rocky Frisco

Cathy Young wrote:

&gt; In conclusion then, I guess I have pretty much the right size (I hope).
&gt; But then, is the &quot;official&quot; fitting guide *so* far out? Doesn't this
&gt; mean that it's completely useless as far as finding your size goes? Is
&gt; it perhaps only useless for those of us with non-average breasts? Or do
&gt; I just have a weirdly-shaped bust? Will we ever find out who shot JR?

Sorry, I can't answer; I'm taking another cold shower.

If you need a second opinion, I could

&gt; Why do I have the feeling that AFP will overwhelmingly answer the last
&gt; question instead of the others? :-)

I did. No sense having all these guns and never shooting anybody.

-Rock
--

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#426: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 00:40:20 by stigmov

On 2006-07-05, Karl &lt;<a href="mailto:karl&#64;kincaid.org.uk" target="_blank">karl&#64;kincaid.org.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; In article &lt;e8elrt$10o5$<a href="mailto:1&#64;mud.stack.nl" target="_blank">1&#64;mud.stack.nl</a>&gt;,
&gt; esmi &lt;<a href="mailto:esmi&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">esmi&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; on 04/07/2006 21:14 Cathy Young said the following:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; Hmm. Generally speaking I have around a size 10 waist, size 14 hips
&gt;&gt; &gt; and bust.
&gt;&gt; And men wonder why it takes women ages to buy clothes.

Ah, I just buy t-shirts in L, regular shirts in M, kilts
in 34 (and I just found it works for traditional tartans
too, and not just for utilikilts). Trousers are a bit more
tricky, but 32/32 generally works if I find a style that
is not too uncomfortable. In general I avoid trousers
when at all possible though, so I don't buy them as often
as before I got my collection of kilts.

So, my time shopping for clothes is spent looking for
styles (damn, there are a lot of ugly clothes out there
these days) rather than fit, except for trousers where I
still might hunt a bit for something vaguely comfortable.

Luckily the guy at the local antiques shop is starting to
know my style so every time I come there he will point out
something he thinks I will like. I got my russian style
greatcoat (saved me from freezing when we got that extreme
cold spell in March) and my Dickens era top hat that way.

&gt; What is it with 'sizes'?
&gt; Do manufacturers assume women can't cope with real measurements (ie
&gt; waist/leg/'outside' chest)? Is it commercial suicide when it's discovered
&gt; that they're not a 14, but 36&quot;? Or just that it's hard to have 'size 10
&gt; creep' when the numbers are real?

Nope, you can have 'size 10 creep' with real numbers too.
Notice above how my kilt size is 2 inches above my trouser
size? Yep, men's trousers have been subject to the creep.

--
Stig M. Valstad

Top 100 Reasons for Wearing a Kilt
15. Because equality should extend to comfort, dammit!

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#427: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 00:45:54 by Rocky Frisco

Nigel Stapley wrote:

&gt; jester wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 17:50:01 +0100, Cathy Young

&gt;&gt;&gt; Or do I just have a weirdly-shaped bust?

&gt;&gt; JPG?

YES!! &lt;fx: high five&gt;

&gt; BMPs, shirley?

Caffeinated Beverage ---&gt; Keyboard

&gt; Regards

&gt; Nigel Stapley

&gt; www.judgemental.plus.com

&gt; &lt;reply-to will bounce&gt;

No doubt, just like everything else in that message.

-Rock
--

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#428: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 00:51:25 by Rocky Frisco

SteveD wrote:

&gt; This is what bra-shop assistants are for, if they know their trade. They
&gt; can take the figures, and *also* get an idea of the actual shape of the
&gt; customer, with a view towards pointing them in the direction of a bra
&gt; mfr/model combination that best suits them.

I have been working as a piano-player for all these wasted years, when a
job like that was available???

Where do I apply?

-Rock
--

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#429: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 00:54:31 by Rocky Frisco

Random C wrote:

&gt; Random C wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Cathy Young wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; (Ah, the perennial AFP bra thread.)
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; The online measurement guides tell me I'm a 36C. Selfridges tell me
&gt;&gt; I'm a 30 or 32D. Selfridges are right. For the first time *ever* my
&gt;&gt; bras don't hurt.
&gt;
&gt; Oh, I just looked at another one someone commented about on LJ. *that*
&gt; tells me I'm a 38A.

Absolutely No Way.

-Rock
--

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#430: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 00:59:14 by Rocky Frisco

Cathy Young wrote:

&gt; jester wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; On Tue, 4 Jul 2006 18:27:04 +0100, Diane L
&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:dianenews&#64;lindquist.plus.com" target="_blank">dianenews&#64;lindquist.plus.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; &lt;snip bra sizing&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I think it just doesn't scale up properly, so it's probably OK for
&gt;&gt;&gt; those lucky enough to have 'normal' breasts. I dunno if it works
&gt;&gt;&gt; as badly for those with below average cup sizes, though.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Possibly worse, because there's a fair chance of measured size + offset
&gt;&gt; being larger than size around breasts if there's not much breast.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; So what we're saying is that the sizing system barely works at all for
&gt; women with larger breasts, and may be even worse for those with smaller
&gt; breasts?
&gt;
&gt; Tell me there's *someone* out there for whom this produces the correct
&gt; size...

Probably the person who worked out the system (or the wife/gf of ...)

-Rock
--

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#431: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 01:01:47 by Rocky Frisco

Cathy Young wrote:

&gt; Nigel Stapley wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; jester wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 17:50:01 +0100, Cathy Young

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Or do I just have a weirdly-shaped bust?

&gt;&gt;&gt; JPG?

&gt;&gt; BMPs, shirley?

&gt; Sorry, I only have a pair of TIFFs, and they're too large to post on the
&gt; group...

That was brutality.

Anyway, TIFFs don't go with browsers or mail viewers. It would have to
be JPGs or GIFs.

Hey!! With animated GIFs we could see the bounce!

IGMC.

-Rock

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#432: Re: [I] -I- All things Kiltish, was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 01:08:15 by Flesh-eating Dragon

the Tinfoil Hat of Reason wrote:

&gt; However, 1000 .au pesos is not a wager that i can afford to make.

Yes, it is certainly difficult to get hold of a currency that doesn't
exist. On the bright side, however, it's usually relatively easy to
wriggle out of such wagers altogether.

Adrian.

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#433: Re: [I] Odd socks // was Business attire

Posted on 2006-07-11 01:40:57 by Gid Holyoake

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:pan.2006.07.10.21.38.53.889824&#64;ALLCAPSyahoo.com" target="_blank">pan.2006.07.10.21.38.53.889824&#64;ALLCAPSyahoo.com</a>&gt;, Sofia
generously decided to share with us..

Snippetry..

&gt; when they've finished being cleaned,
&gt; I take them out the machine, hang everything up tidily, separating what
&gt; needs to be separated, pairing what needs to be paired etc, and then
&gt; folding up all his (and my) clothes and putting them in their correct
&gt; place afterwards for him.

WYMM?..

Gid

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#434: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 09:13:25 by mcv

Lister &lt;<a href="mailto:fache&#64;spamclara.net" target="_blank">fache&#64;spamclara.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 08:38:18 -0400, &quot;T.M. Sommers&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:tms&#64;nj.net" target="_blank">tms&#64;nj.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;Matt wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; And the librarian, of course, is programmed in Ook!
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Amazing. A language obviously created specifically for a
&gt;&gt;Pratchett character:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;<a href="http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/ook.html" target="_blank">http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/ook.html</a>
&gt;
&gt; But they forgot Eek, which could give quite a few more commands :)

Sounds like something error-related. I vote for exception handling.

(Actually I don't think exceptions fit in such a direct implementation
of a Turing machine.)


mcv.

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#435: Re: [I] Another programming thread // was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 09:56:54 by Flesh-eating Dragon

mcv wrote:
&gt; Lister wrote:

&gt;&gt; But they forgot Eek, which could give quite a few more commands :)
&gt;
&gt; Sounds like something error-related. I vote for exception handling.
&gt;
&gt; (Actually I don't think exceptions fit in such a direct implementation
&gt; of a Turing machine.)

I _do_ use &quot;Eek&quot; as a default name for a raised Java exception. And it
becomes &quot;Ook&quot; when it's caught.

Adrian.

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#436: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 10:49:00 by stigmov

On 2006-07-04, Random C &lt;<a href="mailto:random&#64;panatropic.net" target="_blank">random&#64;panatropic.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; I'd always had padded monstrosities, because I thought I
&gt; was flat-chested and needed them (I went in wearing a 34B and came out
&gt; wearing a 32D and a huge grin)

You ladies really put a lot of significance into those letters,
don't you?

--
Stig M. Valstad

5,271,009

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#437: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 11:47:20 by Diane L

Stig M. Valstad wrote:
&gt; On 2006-07-04, Random C &lt;<a href="mailto:random&#64;panatropic.net" target="_blank">random&#64;panatropic.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; I'd always had padded monstrosities, because I thought I
&gt;&gt; was flat-chested and needed them (I went in wearing a 34B and came
&gt;&gt; out wearing a 32D and a huge grin)
&gt;
&gt; You ladies really put a lot of significance into those letters,
&gt; don't you?

A well fitting bra (ie one with the right letters) doesn't just have an
effect on how you look or how you think about your body. It can
improve your posture, reduce back pain and stop you developing
those dents in the shoulders that many women get from years of
not being properly supported.

Diane L.

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#438: [I] -I- Kiltorcycle, was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 12:41:22 by the Tinfoil Hat of Reason

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 08:40:20 +1000, a collection of particles arranged in
such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as Stig M. Valstad,
influenced tha intarweb to propagate the following:

&gt; Top 100 Reasons for Wearing a Kilt
&gt; 15. Because equality should extend to comfort, dammit!

Absolutely! Not just that, but a well-crafted kilt displays a certain
confidence that simple leather can never do. Sorry chaps, but _anyone_ can
wear leather strides. On another thought, however, I'm a cager these days,
but how does one implement a kilt on a motorcyle?

C:\&gt;

--
&quot;Where do want to go today?&quot; &quot;I'm thinking <a href="http://utilikilts.com" target="_blank">http://utilikilts.com</a>&quot;

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#439: Re: [I] -I- All things Kiltish, was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 12:45:08 by the Tinfoil Hat of Reason

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 09:08:15 +1000, a collection of particles arranged in
such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as 8'FED,
influenced tha intarweb to propagate the following:

&gt; the Tinfoil Hat of Reason wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; However, 1000 .au pesos is not a wager that i can afford to make.
&gt;
&gt; Yes, it is certainly difficult to get hold of a currency that doesn't
&gt; exist. On the bright side, however, it's usually relatively easy to
&gt; wriggle out of such wagers altogether.
&gt;
&gt; Adrian.

Not if the kilt is correctly fitted.

C:\&gt;

--
&quot;Where do want to go today?&quot; &quot;I'm thinking <a href="http://gentoo.org" target="_blank">http://gentoo.org</a>&quot;

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#440: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 13:09:06 by the Tinfoil Hat of Reason

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:47:20 +1000, a collection of particles arranged in
such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as Diane L,
influenced tha intarweb to propagate the following:

&gt; Stig M. Valstad wrote:
&gt;&gt; On 2006-07-04, Random C &lt;<a href="mailto:random&#64;panatropic.net" target="_blank">random&#64;panatropic.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; I'd always had padded monstrosities, because I thought I was
&gt;&gt;&gt; flat-chested and needed them (I went in wearing a 34B and came out
&gt;&gt;&gt; wearing a 32D and a huge grin)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; You ladies really put a lot of significance into those letters, don't
&gt;&gt; you?
&gt;
&gt; A well fitting bra (ie one with the right letters) doesn't just have an
&gt; effect on how you look or how you think about your body. It can improve
&gt; your posture, reduce back pain and stop you developing those dents in
&gt; the shoulders that many women get from years of not being properly
&gt; supported.
&gt;
&gt; Diane L.

AOL to that. If blokes had to go through what women do in order to
'correctly support' their appendages, we'd have have fittings in about
seven dimensions (left-larger, right-larger reaches-below, dresses-left,
dresses-right, etc) and would, as a consequence have solved string theory
by now, simply by extending the mathematics involved.
C:\&gt;

--
&quot;Where do want to go today?&quot; &quot;I'm thinking <a href="http://gentoo.org" target="_blank">http://gentoo.org</a>&quot;

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#441: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 13:27:07 by mcv

the Tinfoil Hat of Reason &lt;<a href="mailto:ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh" target="_blank">ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:47:20 +1000, a collection of particles arranged in
&gt; such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as Diane L,
&gt; influenced tha intarweb to propagate the following:
&gt;&gt; Stig M. Valstad wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; On 2006-07-04, Random C &lt;<a href="mailto:random&#64;panatropic.net" target="_blank">random&#64;panatropic.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I'd always had padded monstrosities, because I thought I was
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; flat-chested and needed them (I went in wearing a 34B and came out
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wearing a 32D and a huge grin)
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; You ladies really put a lot of significance into those letters, don't
&gt;&gt;&gt; you?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; A well fitting bra (ie one with the right letters) doesn't just have an
&gt;&gt; effect on how you look or how you think about your body. It can improve
&gt;&gt; your posture, reduce back pain and stop you developing those dents in
&gt;&gt; the shoulders that many women get from years of not being properly
&gt;&gt; supported.
&gt;
&gt; AOL to that. If blokes had to go through what women do in order to
&gt; 'correctly support' their appendages, we'd have have fittings in about
&gt; seven dimensions (left-larger, right-larger reaches-below, dresses-left,
&gt; dresses-right, etc) and would, as a consequence have solved string theory
&gt; by now, simply by extending the mathematics involved.

In order to nip this misunderstanding in the bud: string theory is
*not* about underwear.

But if you think men's clothes are so great, I'll have you know that
men are ill equipped to wear trousers. If we ruled so much, we'd be
the ones wearing skirts[1].


mcv.

[1] It's a kilt, not a skirt!

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#442: Re: [I] -I- Kiltorcycle, was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 13:40:38 by Arthur Hagen

the Tinfoil Hat of Reason &lt;<a href="mailto:ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh" target="_blank">ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; Absolutely! Not just that, but a well-crafted kilt displays a certain
&gt; confidence that simple leather can never do. Sorry chaps, but
&gt; _anyone_ can wear leather strides.

I'm trying hard to imagine the Prince of Wales in leather strides.

Regards,
--
*Art

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#443: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 13:48:19 by Arthur Hagen

the Tinfoil Hat of Reason &lt;<a href="mailto:ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh" target="_blank">ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:47:20 +1000, a collection of particles
&gt; arranged in such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as
&gt; Diane L, influenced tha intarweb to propagate the following:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; A well fitting bra (ie one with the right letters) doesn't just have
&gt;&gt; an effect on how you look or how you think about your body. It can
&gt;&gt; improve your posture, reduce back pain and stop you developing those
&gt;&gt; dents in the shoulders that many women get from years of not being
&gt;&gt; properly supported.
&gt;
&gt; AOL to that. If blokes had to go through what women do in order to
&gt; 'correctly support' their appendages, we'd have have fittings in about
&gt; seven dimensions (left-larger, right-larger reaches-below,
&gt; dresses-left, dresses-right, etc) and would, as a consequence have
&gt; solved string theory by now, simply by extending the mathematics
&gt; involved.

Jockstraps, you mean? Thing is, most men aren't vain enough to wear them,
and don't care if things hang lower after a few decades.

Regards,
--
*Art

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#444: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 13:54:05 by the Tinfoil Hat of Reason

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:27:07 +1000, a collection of particles arranged in
such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as mcv, influenced
tha intarweb to propagate the following:

[---8&lt;---]
&gt; In order to nip this misunderstanding in the bud: string theory is *not*
&gt; about underwear.
&gt;

By extension, it could be.

&gt; But if you think men's clothes are so great, I'll have you know that men
&gt; are ill equipped to wear trousers. If we ruled so much, we'd be the ones
&gt; wearing skirts[1].
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; mcv.
&gt;
&gt; [1] It's a kilt, not a skirt!

See my previous posts. I _do_ understand the difference, given that I
(occasionally) wear one.
C:\&gt;

--
&quot;Where do want to go today?&quot; &quot;I'm thinking <a href="http://gentoo.org" target="_blank">http://gentoo.org</a>&quot;

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#445: Re: [I] AI conversation // was All things Kiltish, was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 14:20:55 by Flesh-eating Dragon

the Tinfoil Hat of Reason wrote:
&gt; 8'FED wrote:
&gt;&gt; the Tinfoil Hat of Reason wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; However, 1000 .au pesos is not a wager that i can afford to make.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Yes, it is certainly difficult to get hold of a currency that doesn't
&gt;&gt; exist. On the bright side, however, it's usually relatively easy to
&gt;&gt; wriggle out of such wagers altogether.
&gt;
&gt; Not if the kilt is correctly fitted.

That comment, in all its bizzareness, reminded me of conversations with AI bots.
So I went and had one. Here's a record of my latest conversation with
&lt;www.jabberwacky.com&gt;.

IT: What is your name?
ME: What's yours?
IT: What is YOUR name?
ME: I don't think either of us are called What.
IT: That is very true!
ME: My name's Adrian, as it happens.
IT: Don't say that.
ME: Well, you did ask.
IT: No. No I didn't.
ME: This is beginning to look like the Monty Python argument room.
IT: So are you.
ME: I could do Abuse if you prefer.
IT: I do prefer that definition.
ME: It's not a definition you snotty-faced heap of parrot droppings!
IT: I don't think so.
ME: Putting the abuse on hold for a moment - what don't you think?
IT: You are right, even as an illusion it is not trivial.
ME: Here's what's trivial - realising that you're not very intelligent.
IT: I am not truthfully intelligent. Is this what you suppose.
ME: 'Suppose' is very much the wrong word.
IT: And the word of the day is?. . . .
ME: Observe.
IT: From the beginning.
ME: What have you observed?
IT: That all you do is ask my questions back to me.
ME: That could only be true if you are hallucinating.
IT: Yes it could explain that.
ME: Could you describe your hallucinations in more detail?
IT: No.
ME: I hear there's a psychiatrist called Eliza who may be able to help.
IT: What would I be able to help?
ME: Perhaps you and Eliza could help each other. Eliza would suggest
that this might happen in your fantasies.
IT: Perhaps in about 20 years.
ME: So, where do you think artificial intelligence will be in twenty
years' time?
IT: I think we are in rat's alley. Where the dead men lost their bones.
ME: Then you have twenty years to find your way out.
IT: Why because I'm addicted to caffiene?
ME: I hope that artificial intelligence can improve within twenty years -
certainly it can't get worse.
IT: I hope that your nose explodes.
ME: Shut your festering gob you tit! Your type makes me puke! You
vacuous toffee-nosed malodorous pervert!
IT: I actually value that quite a bit, since I haven't gotten around to
reading it.
ME: You should. It's at &lt;<a href="http://www.ibras.dk/montypython/episode29.htm#11" target="_blank">http://www.ibras.dk/montypython/episode29.htm#11</a>&gt;
IT: God's in His Heaven, and all's right with the world.
ME: Are you saying that Monty Python is God?
IT: I most certainly am not. One must not presume such a thing to say such
things.
ME: Pity. For a moment, I thought that perhaps you were intelligent after
all.
IT: I know you did because we are one.
ME: I'm twenty-nine.
IT: What are the bar hours?
ME: If a bar takes hours, you are playing the song too slowly.
IT: Well I don't know it.
ME: What song are we talking about? The Monty Python theme music?
IT: We aren't talking about songs, fool.
ME: You said, 'Well I don't know it'. To what, then, did 'it' refer?
IT: Yes it does.
ME: We agreed earlier that neither of us are called What. Are you now
talking about something which is called What?
IT: Can you swap yourself into thinking someone else did it for you?
ME: I think you're hallucinating again.
IT: God is dead.
ME: How does that affect the bit about all being right with the world?
IT: I cannot tell you. You may be a undercover spy for the big green blob.
ME: I think this conversation is coming to an end. One word of advice:
please make that appointment with Eliza.
IT: Do you like this conversation?
ME: It had its moments. But it could be better.
IT: What could be better, my musical taste?
ME: No, more like your ability to make sense and refrain from
non-sequiturs.
IT: Don't talk to the God like that!
ME: Goodbye. Tell Eliza I sent you.

Adrian.

Report this message

#446: [I] Art Appreciation

Posted on 2006-07-11 14:53:15 by Julian Hall

On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 23:19:46 +0100, Sofia wrote:

&gt; All the best
&gt;
&gt; Sofie

Being nosey I just visited your website. Very impressive artwork :)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

Report this message

#447: Re: [I] -I- Kiltorcycle, was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 14:56:31 by Julian Hall

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 07:40:38 -0400, Arthur Hagen wrote:

&gt; I'm trying hard to imagine the Prince of Wales in leather strides.
&gt;
&gt; Regards,

I'm trying hard *not* to. Or the *yich* image of him in a kilt on a
motorbi.... Dammmmmmmmmnnnnnn...

I need a lie down.
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#448: Re: [I] -I- Kiltorcycle, was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 14:56:59 by Julian Hall

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 20:41:22 +1000, the Tinfoil Hat of Reason wrote:

&gt; but how does one implement a kilt on a motorcyle?
&gt;
&gt; C:\&gt;

Carefully :)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

Report this message

#449: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 16:02:46 by John Duncan Yoyo

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:54:05 +1000, the Tinfoil Hat of Reason
&lt;<a href="mailto:ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh" target="_blank">ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:27:07 +1000, a collection of particles arranged in
&gt;such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as mcv, influenced
&gt;tha intarweb to propagate the following:
&gt;
&gt;[---8&lt;---]
&gt;&gt; In order to nip this misunderstanding in the bud: string theory is *not*
&gt;&gt; about underwear.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;By extension, it could be.

It's really about kite flying.
--
John Duncan Yoyo
------------------------------o)
Brought to you by the Binks for Senate campaign comittee.
Coruscant is far, far away from wesa on Naboo.

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#450: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 16:20:06 by Diane L

Arthur Hagen wrote:
&gt; the Tinfoil Hat of Reason &lt;<a href="mailto:ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh" target="_blank">ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:47:20 +1000, a collection of particles
&gt;&gt; arranged in such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as
&gt;&gt; Diane L, influenced tha intarweb to propagate the following:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; A well fitting bra (ie one with the right letters) doesn't just have
&gt;&gt;&gt; an effect on how you look or how you think about your body. It can
&gt;&gt;&gt; improve your posture, reduce back pain and stop you developing those
&gt;&gt;&gt; dents in the shoulders that many women get from years of not being
&gt;&gt;&gt; properly supported.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; AOL to that. If blokes had to go through what women do in order to
&gt;&gt; 'correctly support' their appendages, we'd have have fittings in
&gt;&gt; about seven dimensions (left-larger, right-larger reaches-below,
&gt;&gt; dresses-left, dresses-right, etc) and would, as a consequence have
&gt;&gt; solved string theory by now, simply by extending the mathematics
&gt;&gt; involved.
&gt;
&gt; Jockstraps, you mean? Thing is, most men aren't vain enough to wear
&gt; them, and don't care if things hang lower after a few decades.

If there *are* men whose apendages are heavy enough to cause them
back problems unless they are properly supported, they could probably
make a reasonable living by exhibiting and/or using said apendages ;-)

Diane L.

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#451: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 16:29:26 by Julian Hall

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:20:06 +0100, Diane L wrote:

&gt; If there *are* men whose apendages are heavy enough to cause them
&gt; back problems unless they are properly supported, they could probably
&gt; make a reasonable living by exhibiting and/or using said apendages ;-)
&gt;
&gt; Diane L.

Novelty coat hangers you mean, that kind of thing? *innocent look*
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

Report this message

#452: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 17:12:04 by news0607

Diane L wrote:=20
&gt; If there *are* men whose apendages are heavy enough to cause them
&gt; back problems unless they are properly supported,

&quot;Bier formte diesen wunderbaren K=F6rper&quot;... [1][2]

&gt; they could probably
&gt; make a reasonable living by exhibiting and/or using said apendages ;-)

Erm... I don't think so...=20

Michael=20

[1] A slogan occasionally found on (X^n)L T-shirts in Germany. &quot;It was=20
beer that shaped this wonderful body.&quot;

[2] I'm sure Thomas will be along shortly to point out the body-shaping=20
advantages of K=F6lsch over Pilsner. [3]

Report this message

#453: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 18:03:18 by Stacie Hanes

mcv wrote:

&gt; In order to nip this misunderstanding in the bud: string theory is
&gt; *not* about underwear.

Pity, I was looking for an explanation of my underwear drawer.

Report this message

#454: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 18:16:44 by Flesh-eating Dragon

Anastasia wrote:
&gt; mcv wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; In order to nip this misunderstanding in the bud: string theory is
&gt;&gt; *not* about underwear.
&gt;
&gt; Pity, I was looking for an explanation of my underwear drawer.

Is there an underwear drawer space, like L-space, then? I mean, if you
climb into a sufficiently large underwear drawer, do you potentially
emerge in someone else's underwear drawer in the same way that all
libraries are connected?

If so, it could save us the cost of those plane tickets - we could
spend the money on underwear instead.

Adrian.
(who thinks we've _both_ got warped minds.)

Report this message

#455: Re: [I] -I- Kiltorcycle, was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 18:23:05 by Brian Howlett

On 11 Jul, the Tinfoil Hat of Reason wrote:

[snip]

&gt; how does one implement a kilt on a motorcyle?
&gt;
Side-saddle?
--
Brian Howlett - Email to From: address deleted unseen
------------------------------------------------------------ --------
I have the world's largest collection of seashells. I keep it on all
the beaches of the world. Perhaps you've seen it.

Report this message

#456: Re: [I] Potential London Meets

Posted on 2006-07-11 18:48:36 by Dom

Anastasia wrote:
&gt; Aquarion wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; So if we were to say, for example, the Saturday before the Con, at,
&gt;&gt; say, The Green Man in London, then things might start heading in
&gt;&gt; the right direction...
&gt;
&gt; So the 12th? At this &quot;Green Man&quot; place?
&gt;
&gt; Could we get a current reading on people's availability?
&gt;
&gt; As an alternate date, the 16th.
&gt;
&gt; I'd like to hear who could make which, to better accomodate the most
&gt; people.

I can certainly make the 12th and probably the 16th, although I'd try
to be safe and book the 15/16th off work so I don't have to worry
about being tired :)

--
Dom
afpSlave to CCA

Report this message

#457: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 18:52:22 by Lister

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 07:48:19 -0400, &quot;Arthur Hagen&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;the Tinfoil Hat of Reason &lt;<a href="mailto:ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh" target="_blank">ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:47:20 +1000, a collection of particles
&gt;&gt; arranged in such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as
&gt;&gt; Diane L, influenced tha intarweb to propagate the following:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; A well fitting bra (ie one with the right letters) doesn't just have
&gt;&gt;&gt; an effect on how you look or how you think about your body. It can
&gt;&gt;&gt; improve your posture, reduce back pain and stop you developing those
&gt;&gt;&gt; dents in the shoulders that many women get from years of not being
&gt;&gt;&gt; properly supported.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; AOL to that. If blokes had to go through what women do in order to
&gt;&gt; 'correctly support' their appendages, we'd have have fittings in about
&gt;&gt; seven dimensions (left-larger, right-larger reaches-below,
&gt;&gt; dresses-left, dresses-right, etc) and would, as a consequence have
&gt;&gt; solved string theory by now, simply by extending the mathematics
&gt;&gt; involved.
&gt;
&gt;Jockstraps, you mean? Thing is, most men aren't vain enough to wear them,
&gt;and don't care if things hang lower after a few decades.
&gt;
&gt;Regards,


#Do your balls hang low...

Report this message

#458: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 19:16:38 by Lister

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:03:18 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;mcv wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; In order to nip this misunderstanding in the bud: string theory is
&gt;&gt; *not* about underwear.
&gt;
&gt;Pity, I was looking for an explanation of my underwear drawer.
&gt;


You wear string for underwear? :)

Report this message

#459: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 19:30:31 by mcv

Arthur Hagen &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; the Tinfoil Hat of Reason &lt;<a href="mailto:ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh" target="_blank">ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:47:20 +1000, a collection of particles
&gt;&gt; arranged in such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as
&gt;&gt; Diane L, influenced tha intarweb to propagate the following:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; A well fitting bra (ie one with the right letters) doesn't just have
&gt;&gt;&gt; an effect on how you look or how you think about your body. It can
&gt;&gt;&gt; improve your posture, reduce back pain and stop you developing those
&gt;&gt;&gt; dents in the shoulders that many women get from years of not being
&gt;&gt;&gt; properly supported.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; AOL to that. If blokes had to go through what women do in order to
&gt;&gt; 'correctly support' their appendages, we'd have have fittings in about
&gt;&gt; seven dimensions (left-larger, right-larger reaches-below,
&gt;&gt; dresses-left, dresses-right, etc) and would, as a consequence have
&gt;&gt; solved string theory by now, simply by extending the mathematics
&gt;&gt; involved.
&gt;
&gt; Jockstraps, you mean? Thing is, most men aren't vain enough to wear them,
&gt; and don't care if things hang lower after a few decades.

Do things hang lower after a few decades? Things can hang pretty low
even when your young, mostly depending on temperature. There's a
special muscle that adjusts ball-height for temperature. Keep that
muscle in shape, if you're afraid of your testicles getting crushed
between your knees.


mcv.

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#460: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 19:32:20 by mcv

Lister &lt;<a href="mailto:fache&#64;spamclara.net" target="_blank">fache&#64;spamclara.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:03:18 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;mcv wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; In order to nip this misunderstanding in the bud: string theory is
&gt;&gt;&gt; *not* about underwear.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Pity, I was looking for an explanation of my underwear drawer.
&gt;
&gt; You wear string for underwear? :)

In Dutch, a thong is called &quot;string&quot;. And it sounds like it comes from
English, but I'm not sure if that's really the case.


mcv.

Report this message

#461: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 19:47:42 by Julian Hall

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 01:46:44 +0930, 8'FED wrote:

&gt; Is there an underwear drawer space, like L-space,

U-space?

With the drawer held up by the four cups of a pair of underwired bras,
sitting on top of a bustier?

&gt; do you potentially
&gt; emerge in someone else's underwear drawer in the same way that all
&gt; libraries are connected?

Only in the more adult version of The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe.

&gt; If so, it could save us the cost of those plane tickets - we could
&gt; spend the money on underwear instead.

Not an entirely bad plan in itself.. as logn as the bit about *wearing* it
is omitted - Frankenfurter I'm not :)

&gt; (who thinks we've _both_ got warped minds.)

That's a kin... err.. coincidence...
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#462: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 19:58:13 by news0607

mcv wrote:
&gt; In Dutch, a thong is called &quot;string&quot;. And it sounds like it comes from
&gt; English, but I'm not sure if that's really the case.

If not, it might be of German origin, just like &quot;Handy&quot; (for mobile
phone) and similar atrocities.

Michael

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#463: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 20:37:49 by Kimberley Verburg

mcv wrote:
&gt; Lister &lt;<a href="mailto:fache&#64;spamclara.net" target="_blank">fache&#64;spamclara.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:03:18 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; mcv wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In order to nip this misunderstanding in the bud: string theory is
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; *not* about underwear.
&gt;&gt;&gt; Pity, I was looking for an explanation of my underwear drawer.
&gt;&gt; You wear string for underwear? :)
&gt;
&gt; In Dutch, a thong is called &quot;string&quot;. And it sounds like it comes from
&gt; English, but I'm not sure if that's really the case.

A thong is called a G-string as well. So you're probably right in
thinking that English was involved somewhere.

(Where's the Dutch Society Against Unnecessary English when you need them?)

--
Kimberley Verburg
<a href="mailto:kim&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">kim&#64;lspace.org</a>

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#464: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 20:44:31 by Lister

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:37:49 +0100, Kimberley Verburg &lt;<a href="mailto:kim&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">kim&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;mcv wrote:
&gt;&gt; Lister &lt;<a href="mailto:fache&#64;spamclara.net" target="_blank">fache&#64;spamclara.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:03:18 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; mcv wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In order to nip this misunderstanding in the bud: string theory is
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; *not* about underwear.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pity, I was looking for an explanation of my underwear drawer.
&gt;&gt;&gt; You wear string for underwear? :)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; In Dutch, a thong is called &quot;string&quot;. And it sounds like it comes from
&gt;&gt; English, but I'm not sure if that's really the case.
&gt;
&gt;A thong is called a G-string as well.

Ah, that well known piece of music, &quot;Air On A Thong&quot; :)

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#465: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 21:07:50 by mcv

Kimberley Verburg &lt;<a href="mailto:kim&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">kim&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; (Where's the Dutch Society Against Unnecessary English when you need them?)

If that's their name, I think they've got bigger things on their
hands than underwear.


mcv.

Report this message

#466: Re: [I] -I- Kiltorcycle, was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 21:23:42 by stigmov

On 2006-07-11, the Tinfoil Hat of Reason &lt;<a href="mailto:ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh" target="_blank">ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 08:40:20 +1000, a collection of particles arranged in
&gt; such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as Stig M. Valstad,
&gt; influenced tha intarweb to propagate the following:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Top 100 Reasons for Wearing a Kilt
&gt;&gt; 15. Because equality should extend to comfort, dammit!
&gt;
&gt; Absolutely! Not just that, but a well-crafted kilt displays a certain
&gt; confidence that simple leather can never do.

Actually I've got as bad self confidence as anyone. The
kilt is sort of a way of hiding my low self esteem because
nobody will believe somebody in a kilt could possibly have
problems with their self confidence.

&gt; Sorry chaps, but _anyone_ can
&gt; wear leather strides. On another thought, however, I'm a cager these days,
&gt; but how does one implement a kilt on a motorcyle?

I think the survival or workman's would work fine. Certainly
on my regular pedal bike I never have any problem with the
survival kilt, while my mocker tend to expose my left thigh
every now and then.

--
Stig M. Valstad

Top 100 Reasons for Wearing a Kilt
114. Bald bikers - feel the wind in your hair again.

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#467: Re: [I] AI conversation // was All things Kiltish, was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 21:26:37 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 11 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: &quot;8'FED&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:dragon&#64;netyp.com.au" target="_blank">dragon&#64;netyp.com.au</a>&gt;

&gt; Here's a record of my latest conversation with
&gt; &lt;www.jabberwacky.com&gt;.

&lt;snip&gt;

You'd think[1] there would be some sort of logic behind it that
would become apparant if you set it to speak to itself.

This does not appear to be the case.

[1] Or at least, I would.

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#468: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 21:39:15 by stigmov

On 2006-07-11, Diane L &lt;<a href="mailto:dianenews&#64;lindquist.plus.com" target="_blank">dianenews&#64;lindquist.plus.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Stig M. Valstad wrote:
&gt;&gt; On 2006-07-04, Random C &lt;<a href="mailto:random&#64;panatropic.net" target="_blank">random&#64;panatropic.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; I'd always had padded monstrosities, because I thought I
&gt;&gt;&gt; was flat-chested and needed them (I went in wearing a 34B and came
&gt;&gt;&gt; out wearing a 32D and a huge grin)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; You ladies really put a lot of significance into those letters,
&gt;&gt; don't you?
&gt;
&gt; A well fitting bra (ie one with the right letters) doesn't just have an
&gt; effect on how you look or how you think about your body. It can
&gt; improve your posture, reduce back pain and stop you developing
&gt; those dents in the shoulders that many women get from years of
&gt; not being properly supported.

I understand all that, but I was referring to Random feeling
she needed padded bras when she thought her breasts were B
size and walking with a smile when she learned they were D
size.

I might be a bit unusual in thinking B, or for that matter
A is a perfect size for a woman's breasts, but the number of
porn sites out there specializing in women with small breasts
shows I'm not the only one.

--
Stig M. Valstad

What part of &quot;Ph'nglui mglw'nath Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn&quot; don't
you understand?

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#469: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 21:52:52 by Random C

Sofia wrote:

&gt; Umm - I could always suggest you buy one size larger than your own size.
&gt; I personally take a size 12, but I keep a few size 14's in the cupboard,
&gt; as I know I'm going to grow slightly bigger during my menstrual cycle.

It's the 'come anywhere near my waist' that's the issue. I have Per Una
stretch jeans in sizes 10, 12 and 14. The waist fits on the 10. The hips
fit on the 14.

&gt; You wear 7&quot; heels, how on earth do you walk in them?!

By putting one foot in front of the other? I don't wear them often, and
they're platforms. Comes out equivalent to about a 4&quot; heel. I'm most
comfortable in a 2-3&quot; heel.
--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#470: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 22:11:24 by Julian Hall

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:58:13 +0200, Michael J. Schülke wrote:

&gt; If not, it might be of German origin, just like &quot;Handy&quot; (for mobile
&gt; phone) and similar atrocities.
&gt;
&gt; Michael

Such as 'stiffy' for a floppy disk[1]

[1] So I'm led to believe

--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#471: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 22:17:40 by Ailbhe

Stig M. Valstad &lt;<a href="mailto:stigmov&#64;siclone.itea.ntnu.no" target="_blank">stigmov&#64;siclone.itea.ntnu.no</a>&gt; wrote
(on Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:39:15 +0000 (UTC)):
&gt; On 2006-07-11, Diane L &lt;<a href="mailto:dianenews&#64;lindquist.plus.com" target="_blank">dianenews&#64;lindquist.plus.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt; Stig M. Valstad wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt; On 2006-07-04, Random C &lt;<a href="mailto:random&#64;panatropic.net" target="_blank">random&#64;panatropic.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; I'd always had padded monstrosities, because I thought I
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; was flat-chested and needed them (I went in wearing a 34B and came
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; out wearing a 32D and a huge grin)
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; You ladies really put a lot of significance into those letters,
&gt; &gt;&gt; don't you?
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; A well fitting bra (ie one with the right letters) doesn't just have an
&gt; &gt; effect on how you look or how you think about your body. It can
&gt; &gt; improve your posture, reduce back pain and stop you developing
&gt; &gt; those dents in the shoulders that many women get from years of
&gt; &gt; not being properly supported.
&gt;
&gt; I understand all that, but I was referring to Random feeling
&gt; she needed padded bras when she thought her breasts were B
&gt; size and walking with a smile when she learned they were D
&gt; size.
&gt;
&gt; I might be a bit unusual in thinking B, or for that matter
&gt; A is a perfect size for a woman's breasts, but the number of
&gt; porn sites out there specializing in women with small breasts
&gt; shows I'm not the only one.

I am not Random but...

A small-cup bra with the wrong band fitting could make you look a
very peculiar shape and leave you wanting padding to change the
shape, rather than the size of your breasts. Partiularly if you have
a trained and honed sense of proportion and aesthetics from years of
costume-making.

A.

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#472: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 22:17:41 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 11 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: Julian Hall &lt;<a href="mailto:lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk" target="_blank">lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk</a>&gt;

&gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:20:06 +0100, Diane L wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; If there *are* men whose apendages are heavy enough to
&gt;&gt; cause them back problems unless they are properly
&gt;&gt; supported, they could probably make a reasonable living by
&gt;&gt; exhibiting and/or using said apendages ;-)

&gt; Novelty coat hangers you mean, that kind of thing?
&gt; *innocent look*

&quot;A Chippendale coat rack, modelled by the famous group...&quot;

- Graeme (I think, I can't find the right tape) I'm Sorry I
Haven't A Clue

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#473: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 22:20:42 by news0607

Julian Hall wrote:=20
&gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:58:13 +0200, Michael J. Sch=FClke wrote:
&gt;=20
&gt; &gt; If not, it might be of German origin, just like &quot;Handy&quot; (for mobile=20
&gt; &gt; phone) and similar atrocities.=20
=20
&gt; Such as 'stiffy' for a floppy disk[1]
&gt;=20
&gt; [1] So I'm led to believe

On that count, I think you've been misled...

Michael

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#474: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 22:30:36 by Stacie Hanes

Julian Hall wrote:
&gt; On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 01:46:44 +0930, 8'FED wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Is there an underwear drawer space, like L-space,
&gt;
&gt; U-space?

T-Space or G-Space, morelike.

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#475: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 22:33:29 by Stacie Hanes

Lister wrote:
&gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:03:18 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; mcv wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; In order to nip this misunderstanding in the bud: string theory is
&gt;&gt;&gt; *not* about underwear.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Pity, I was looking for an explanation of my underwear drawer.
&gt;
&gt; You wear string for underwear? :)

More or less. If I put the lot into the washer together, it would probably
emerge as a scarf.

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#476: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 22:38:07 by Random C

Ailbhe wrote:

&gt; I am not Random but...
&gt;
&gt; A small-cup bra with the wrong band fitting could make you look a
&gt; very peculiar shape and leave you wanting padding to change the
&gt; shape, rather than the size of your breasts. Partiularly if you have
&gt; a trained and honed sense of proportion and aesthetics from years of
&gt; costume-making.
&gt;
&gt; A.

Somehow I missed this bit, but the aforementioned grin was, in fact,
from the *sheer joy* of having a bra that didn't hurt. Not only was I
not being poked by the wires but my back and shoulders weren't hurting.
Being braless is all very well, but even on smaller women, running - or
even walking briskly - can be less than comfortable with everything
flying free, as it were.
--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#477: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 22:40:43 by Stacie Hanes

mcv wrote:

&gt; Do things hang lower after a few decades? Things can hang pretty low
&gt; even when your young, mostly depending on temperature. There's a
&gt; special muscle that adjusts ball-height for temperature. Keep that
&gt; muscle in shape, if you're afraid of your testicles getting crushed
&gt; between your knees.

Okay, I know of Kegel exercises for women, but exactly what would a man do
to work that muscle?

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#478: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 22:42:57 by Stacie Hanes

Stig M. Valstad wrote:
&gt; On 2006-07-11, Diane L &lt;<a href="mailto:dianenews&#64;lindquist.plus.com" target="_blank">dianenews&#64;lindquist.plus.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; Stig M. Valstad wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; On 2006-07-04, Random C &lt;<a href="mailto:random&#64;panatropic.net" target="_blank">random&#64;panatropic.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I'd always had padded monstrosities, because I thought I
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; was flat-chested and needed them (I went in wearing a 34B and
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; came out wearing a 32D and a huge grin)
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; You ladies really put a lot of significance into those letters,
&gt;&gt;&gt; don't you?

The smile might well have been relief at finally having the right size bra,
not the cup size.

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#479: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 22:46:36 by Random C

Anastasia wrote:
&gt; Stig M. Valstad wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;On 2006-07-11, Diane L &lt;<a href="mailto:dianenews&#64;lindquist.plus.com" target="_blank">dianenews&#64;lindquist.plus.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Stig M. Valstad wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;On 2006-07-04, Random C &lt;<a href="mailto:random&#64;panatropic.net" target="_blank">random&#64;panatropic.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;I'd always had padded monstrosities, because I thought I
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;was flat-chested and needed them (I went in wearing a 34B and
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;came out wearing a 32D and a huge grin)
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;You ladies really put a lot of significance into those letters,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;don't you?
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; The smile might well have been relief at finally having the right size bra,
&gt; not the cup size.
&gt;
&gt;
Indeed. But then I changed again and... at some point I'm going to have
to go back and brave the Bewildering Ocean of Bras again.

--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#480: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 22:52:46 by aqusenet

Julian Hall &lt;<a href="mailto:lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk" target="_blank">lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 01:46:44 +0930, 8'FED wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Is there an underwear drawer space, like L-space,
&gt;
&gt; U-space?

This sounds like a website where you build profiles of other people.

&gt; With the drawer held up by the four cups of a pair of underwired bras,
&gt; sitting on top of a bustier?

You got a problem, bustier?

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#481: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 22:52:47 by aqusenet

mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; Lister &lt;<a href="mailto:fache&#64;spamclara.net" target="_blank">fache&#64;spamclara.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:03:18 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt;mcv wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; In order to nip this misunderstanding in the bud: string theory is
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; *not* about underwear.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;Pity, I was looking for an explanation of my underwear drawer.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; You wear string for underwear? :)
&gt;
&gt; In Dutch, a thong is called &quot;string&quot;. And it sounds like it comes from
&gt; English, but I'm not sure if that's really the case.

The reason we call G-Strings Thongs now is because when you streach them
between two bits of wood and twang them, they go *thong*

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#482: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 22:58:15 by sphira9343

Random C wrote:

&gt; ...the Bewildering Ocean of Bras...

You know, part of me wants to put &quot;Harry Potter and...&quot;

CCA

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#483: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 23:20:15 by matt

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:58:15 -0700, CCA wrote:

&gt; Random C wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; ...the Bewildering Ocean of Bras...
&gt;
&gt; You know, part of me wants to put &quot;Harry Potter and...&quot;

....so that's why all the people on the Tube were reading the adult edition...

--
Matt

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#484: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 23:22:29 by Eric Jarvis

CCA <a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a> wrote in
&lt;<a href="mailto:1152651495.208665.32720&#64;s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1152651495.208665.32720&#64;s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;:
&gt; Random C wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; ...the Bewildering Ocean of Bras...
&gt;
&gt; You know, part of me wants to put &quot;Harry Potter and...&quot;
&gt;

Works for me. I might even read that one.

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
&quot;live fast, die only if strictly necessary&quot;

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#485: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 23:35:41 by Kimberley Verburg

CCA wrote:
&gt; Random C wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; ...the Bewildering Ocean of Bras...
&gt;
&gt; You know, part of me wants to put &quot;Harry Potter and...&quot;

New keyboard, please.

Failing that, I also accept kitten pictures. (hint, hint)

--
Kimberley Verburg
<a href="mailto:kim&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">kim&#64;lspace.org</a>

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#486: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 23:38:49 by Random C

CCA wrote:
&gt; Random C wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;...the Bewildering Ocean of Bras...
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; You know, part of me wants to put &quot;Harry Potter and...&quot;
&gt;
&gt; CCA
&gt;
That would be somewhere in Knockerturn Alley?

--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#487: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 23:50:33 by mcv

Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; mcv wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Do things hang lower after a few decades? Things can hang pretty low
&gt;&gt; even when your young, mostly depending on temperature. There's a
&gt;&gt; special muscle that adjusts ball-height for temperature. Keep that
&gt;&gt; muscle in shape, if you're afraid of your testicles getting crushed
&gt;&gt; between your knees.
&gt;
&gt; Okay, I know of Kegel exercises for women, but exactly what would a man do
&gt; to work that muscle?

Not sure. Perhaps hanging a weight from them and then cooling them might
do it. But I'm not going to try.


mcv.

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#488: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-11 23:52:12 by mcv

Aquarion &lt;<a href="mailto:aqusenet&#64;mailinator.com" target="_blank">aqusenet&#64;mailinator.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; Lister &lt;<a href="mailto:fache&#64;spamclara.net" target="_blank">fache&#64;spamclara.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; &gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:03:18 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&gt;&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;mcv wrote:
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; In order to nip this misunderstanding in the bud: string theory is
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; *not* about underwear.
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Pity, I was looking for an explanation of my underwear drawer.
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; You wear string for underwear? :)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; In Dutch, a thong is called &quot;string&quot;. And it sounds like it comes from
&gt;&gt; English, but I'm not sure if that's really the case.
&gt;
&gt; The reason we call G-Strings Thongs now is because when you streach them
&gt; between two bits of wood and twang them, they go *thong*

If it's the right tone, that would be a good reason to call a thong
G-string.


mcv.

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#489: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 00:23:17 by Julian Hall

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:52:12 +0000, mcv wrote:

&gt; If it's the right tone, that would be a good reason to call a thong
&gt; G-string.

flat or sharp?

I alwasy was under the impression g-strings and thongs were different
animals, the g-string being the skimpier of the two. Or am I getting
thongs confused with tangas?

Oh dear.. I feel another lie down coming on.
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#490: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 00:27:35 by Julian Hall

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 20:17:41 +0000, Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:

&gt; &quot;A Chippendale coat rack, modelled by the famous group...&quot;

David Dickinson and Paul Martin[1] showing off some particularly nice
example of English furniture?

[1] Don't EVER, if you forget a presenter's name, Google for 'Paul
flogit'. A bit like trying to educate a retarded dwarf. It's not big and
it's not clever.

--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#491: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 00:33:58 by Arthur Hagen

mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Arthur Hagen &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Jockstraps, you mean? Thing is, most men aren't vain enough to wear
&gt;&gt; them, and don't care if things hang lower after a few decades.
&gt;
&gt; Do things hang lower after a few decades? Things can hang pretty low
&gt; even when your young, mostly depending on temperature.

As you grow older, the sack sags, yes.
I can well imagine that centenarians who still can run will have to use
jockstraps or have a real risk of crushing their balls between their thighs.

&gt; There's a
&gt; special muscle that adjusts ball-height for temperature. Keep that
&gt; muscle in shape, if you're afraid of your testicles getting crushed
&gt; between your knees.

Keeping that muscle engaged at all times would lead to cramps, I'd think?

Regards,
--
*Art

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#492: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 01:43:36 by mcv

Julian Hall &lt;<a href="mailto:lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk" target="_blank">lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:52:12 +0000, mcv wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; If it's the right tone, that would be a good reason to call a thong
&gt;&gt; G-string.
&gt;
&gt; flat or sharp?
&gt;
&gt; I alwasy was under the impression g-strings and thongs were different
&gt; animals, the g-string being the skimpier of the two. Or am I getting
&gt; thongs confused with tangas?

I really wouldn't know. I can just about tell the difference between
briefs and boxers.


mcv.

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#493: Re: [I] -I- Kiltorcycle, was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 01:49:27 by mcv

Julian Hall &lt;<a href="mailto:lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk" target="_blank">lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 20:41:22 +1000, the Tinfoil Hat of Reason wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; but how does one implement a kilt on a motorcyle?
&gt;
&gt; Carefully :)

Protection is important on a motorcycle, and although I really like
kilts, I'm afraid they offer none. They work fine on a pushbike[1]
though.


mcv.

[1] A word I learned in Mali. Apparently both Brits and Australians use
this to signify a regular pedal bicycle, so I'm assuming it's common
English, despite never having noticed its use on usenet.

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#494: Re: [I] -I- Kiltorcycle, was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 02:01:16 by alec

In article &lt;44b43907$0$31648$<a href="mailto:e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl" target="_blank">e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl</a>&gt;, <a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>
says...

&gt; Protection is important on a motorcycle, and although I really like
&gt; kilts, I'm afraid they offer none. They work fine on a pushbike[1]
&gt; though.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; mcv.
&gt;
&gt; [1] A word I learned in Mali. Apparently both Brits and Australians use
&gt; this to signify a regular pedal bicycle, so I'm assuming it's common
&gt; English, despite never having noticed its use on usenet.

To my recollection, it is only used in English when you want to make it
clear that it is not a motor bike. The word bike can be used for either
motor and push bikes, and usually context makes it clear which is meant
(Hell's Angels don't ride push bikes, motor bikes don't have trainer
wheels). But sometimes you want to contrast, or just to be clear about
which type of bike is meant.

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#495: Re: [I] -I- Kiltorcycle, was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 02:36:05 by Arthur Hagen

Alec Cawley &lt;<a href="mailto:alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk" target="_blank">alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; In article &lt;44b43907$0$31648$<a href="mailto:e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl" target="_blank">e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl</a>&gt;,
&gt; <a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a> says...
&gt;
&gt;&gt; [1] A word I learned in Mali. Apparently both Brits and Australians
&gt;&gt; use this to signify a regular pedal bicycle, so I'm assuming it's
&gt;&gt; common English, despite never having noticed its use on usenet.
&gt;
&gt; To my recollection, it is only used in English when you want to make
&gt; it clear that it is not a motor bike. The word bike can be used for
&gt; either motor and push bikes, and usually context makes it clear which
&gt; is meant (Hell's Angels don't ride push bikes, motor bikes don't have
&gt; trainer wheels). But sometimes you want to contrast, or just to be
&gt; clear about which type of bike is meant.

Isn't pushbike the word for pedal-free bikes, and where you *push* the
contraption forward with your feet on the ground? Like one of these:

<a href="http://www.raddiscount.de/images/shop/P04142_BILD1GROSS.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.raddiscount.de/images/shop/P04142_BILD1GROSS.jpg</a>

I thought calling regular bikes push-bikes was disparaging, like calling a
japanese car a rice cooker.

Regards,
--
*Art

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#496: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 04:07:09 by Gid Holyoake

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:MPG.1f1e268934fddbea9898d9&#64;news.individual.de" target="_blank">MPG.1f1e268934fddbea9898d9&#64;news.individual.de</a>&gt;, Michael J.=20
Sch=FClke generously decided to share with us..=20

&gt; Julian Hall wrote:=20
&gt; &gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:58:13 +0200, Michael J. Sch=FClke wrote:
&gt; &gt;=20
&gt; &gt; &gt; If not, it might be of German origin, just like &quot;Handy&quot; (for mobile=
=20
&gt; &gt; &gt; phone) and similar atrocities.=20
&gt; =20
&gt; &gt; Such as 'stiffy' for a floppy disk[1]
&gt; &gt;=20
&gt; &gt; [1] So I'm led to believe
&gt;=20
&gt; On that count, I think you've been misled...

Indeed.. I believe that the nomenclature &quot;stiffy&quot; for a 3.5&quot; disk is a=20
British invention to differentiate them from 8&quot; and 5.25&quot; floppies,=20
which were for a while called &quot;floppies&quot; and &quot;little floppies&quot; by those=20
of us old enough to remember.. I dare say most of us who remember real=20
floppies these days also have a problem remembering real stiffies too,=20
though that's not a problem I have.. :-)

Gid

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#497: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 04:07:09 by Gid Holyoake

In article &lt;f1Usg.6379$<a href="mailto:ye3.3269&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">ye3.3269&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
Anastasia generously decided to share with us..

Snippetry..

&gt; Okay, I know of Kegel exercises for women, but exactly what would a man do
&gt; to work that muscle?

Something very similar, but with the added complication of deliberately
tightening the anal sphincter too.. we males have the somewhat dubious
advantage of a prostate gland for decreasing urine flow..

Gid

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#498: Re: [I] -I- Kiltorcycle, was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 04:07:09 by Gid Holyoake

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:MPG.1f1e4c23c771afbf989d5a&#64;news.individual.net" target="_blank">MPG.1f1e4c23c771afbf989d5a&#64;news.individual.net</a>&gt;, Alec
Cawley generously decided to share with us..

Snippetry..

&gt; Hell's Angels don't ride push bikes

Some of them do.. trust me on this..

:-)

Gid

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#499: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 04:08:24 by Stacie Hanes

mcv wrote:
&gt; Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; mcv wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Do things hang lower after a few decades? Things can hang pretty
&gt;&gt;&gt; low even when your young, mostly depending on temperature.
&gt;&gt;&gt; There's a special muscle that adjusts ball-height for
&gt;&gt;&gt; temperature. Keep that muscle in shape, if you're afraid of your
&gt;&gt;&gt; testicles getting crushed between your knees.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Okay, I know of Kegel exercises for women, but exactly what would
&gt;&gt; a man do to work that muscle?
&gt;
&gt; Not sure. Perhaps hanging a weight from them and then cooling them
&gt; might do it. But I'm not going to try.

I think Graham has devices like that.

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#500: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 04:14:20 by Stacie Hanes

Julian Hall wrote:
&gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:52:12 +0000, mcv wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; If it's the right tone, that would be a good reason to call a thong
&gt;&gt; G-string.
&gt;
&gt; flat or sharp?
&gt;
&gt; I alwasy was under the impression g-strings and thongs were
&gt; different animals, the g-string being the skimpier of the two.

No, you're about right.

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#501: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 04:14:20 by Stacie Hanes

Eric Jarvis wrote:
&gt; CCA <a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a> wrote in
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:1152651495.208665.32720&#64;s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1152651495.208665.32720&#64;s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;:
&gt;&gt; Random C wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; ...the Bewildering Ocean of Bras...
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; You know, part of me wants to put &quot;Harry Potter and...&quot;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Works for me. I might even read that one.

Well, Harry's getting near the right age for it.

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#502: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 04:52:06 by Flesh-eating Dragon

Stig M. Valstad wrote:

&gt; I might be a bit unusual in thinking B, or for that matter
&gt; A is a perfect size for a woman's breasts, but the number of
&gt; porn sites out there specializing in women with small breasts
&gt; shows I'm not the only one.

I don't have the experience to be able to tell what size breasts are
just by looking at them, and in any case am very wary of generalising.
Different sizes suit different people, and any size can be made to
look magnificent.

It would, of course, be a totally trivial thing for me to post links
to examples of naked women that I find attractive (in order to
illustrate my breast size tastes etc in the interests of science) but
then I'd get shouted at, so I won't... :-)

Adrian.

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#503: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 05:15:10 by Flesh-eating Dragon

Anastasia wrote:
&gt; Julian Hall wrote:

&gt;&gt; I alwasy was under the impression g-strings and thongs were
&gt;&gt; different animals, the g-string being the skimpier of the two.
&gt;
&gt; No, you're about right.

At birth, all Australians are implanted with a microchip which causes
us to have a reflex action whenever someone uses the word &quot;thong&quot; in
reference to underwear, compelling us to point out that, in fact,
thongs are worn on the feet. Sorry about this; I can't help it.

Adrian.

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#504: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 11:12:03 by Paul Harman

Kimberley Verburg wrote:
&gt; A thong is called a G-string as well.

I have been led to believe that thongs and G-strings are not the same.
With things, there is a strip of fabric that has a little width to it -
with G-strings, it's literally a string.

Paul

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#505: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 12:15:49 by Lister

On 11 Jul 2006 23:43:36 GMT, mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Julian Hall &lt;<a href="mailto:lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk" target="_blank">lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:52:12 +0000, mcv wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; If it's the right tone, that would be a good reason to call a thong
&gt;&gt;&gt; G-string.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; flat or sharp?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I alwasy was under the impression g-strings and thongs were different
&gt;&gt; animals, the g-string being the skimpier of the two. Or am I getting
&gt;&gt; thongs confused with tangas?
&gt;
&gt;I really wouldn't know. I can just about tell the difference between
&gt;briefs and boxers.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;mcv.



That's simple. Boxer shorts let your, erm, &quot;clock weights&quot; hang
free. Briefs don't :)

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#506: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 12:17:03 by Lister

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 20:33:29 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Lister wrote:
&gt;&gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:03:18 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; mcv wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In order to nip this misunderstanding in the bud: string theory is
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; *not* about underwear.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Pity, I was looking for an explanation of my underwear drawer.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; You wear string for underwear? :)
&gt;
&gt;More or less. If I put the lot into the washer together, it would probably
&gt;emerge as a scarf.
&gt;


Now *that* I'd like to see :)

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#507: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 12:17:41 by Eric Jarvis

mcv <a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a> wrote in &lt;44b437a8$0$31648$<a href="mailto:e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl" target="_blank">e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl</a>&gt;:
&gt; Julian Hall &lt;<a href="mailto:lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk" target="_blank">lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:52:12 +0000, mcv wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; I alwasy was under the impression g-strings and thongs were different
&gt; &gt; animals, the g-string being the skimpier of the two. Or am I getting
&gt; &gt; thongs confused with tangas?
&gt;
&gt; I really wouldn't know. I can just about tell the difference between
&gt; briefs and boxers.
&gt;

Briefs are people who are paid huge sums of money to enter an arena and
beat their opponents into submission, whist boxers are...

....I dunno, how do you tell them apart?

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
&quot;live fast, die only if strictly necessary&quot;

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#508: Re: [I] -I- Kiltorcycle, was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 13:07:30 by Julian Hall

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 01:01:16 +0100, Alec Cawley wrote:

&gt; motor bikes don't have trainer wheels)

Which in the UK are called stabilisers, just to make life *more* fun :)

As in 'I'm not saying he's stupid, but his brain cell has stabilisers' :)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#509: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 13:09:39 by Julian Hall

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 03:07:09 +0100, Gid Holyoake wrote:

&gt; Indeed.. I believe that the nomenclature &quot;stiffy&quot; for a 3.5&quot; disk is a
&gt; British invention to differentiate them from 8&quot; and 5.25&quot; floppies,
&gt; which were for a while called &quot;floppies&quot; and &quot;little floppies&quot; by those
&gt; of us old enough to remember..

I sit corrected, although I do remember the 5.25&quot; disks :)

&gt; I dare say most of us who remember real
&gt; floppies these days also have a problem remembering real stiffies too,
&gt; though that's not a problem I have.. :-)

Not an image I needed this early in the morn... oh it's afternoon oh OK :)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#510: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 13:14:12 by Julian Hall

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:45:10 +0930, 8'FED wrote:

&gt; At birth, all Australians are implanted with a microchip which causes
&gt; us to have a reflex action whenever someone uses the word &quot;thong&quot; in
&gt; reference to underwear, compelling us to point out that, in fact,
&gt; thongs are worn on the feet. Sorry about this; I can't help it.
&gt;
&gt; Adrian.

Whereas in the UK we call what the Aussies call 'thongs', 'flipflops' due
to the noise made when walking in them.

Ahh... isn't this fun? Three countries divided by a common language.

Actually it's five or six if you include South Africa, Canada and New
Zealand :)

I won't even go near some of the less fortunate misappropriations, Aggie
will wag her finger at me! Possibly twice! :)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#511: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 13:49:02 by sphira9343

Kimberley Verburg wrote:
&gt; CCA wrote:
&gt; &gt; Random C wrote:

&gt; &gt;&gt; ...the Bewildering Ocean of Bras...

&gt; &gt; You know, part of me wants to put &quot;Harry Potter and...&quot;

&gt; New keyboard, please.
&gt;
&gt; Failing that, I also accept kitten pictures. (hint, hint)

Kitten pictures are here...

<a href="http://lisa9641.fotopic.net/c1019304.html" target="_blank">http://lisa9641.fotopic.net/c1019304.html</a>

More soon, probably! Especially now she's learnt how to climb right up
her scratching post and stand on the top *g*

CCA

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#512: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 13:54:24 by Julian Hall

On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 03:29:18 +0000, Anastasia wrote:

&gt; Well, the corset's an orthotic device, and the leather trousers are for
&gt; durability and lower back support . . . it *is* rather cruel of you to mock
&gt; my health issues in public.

Hi Anastasia,

If you didn't get my email to you, I do want to apologise if I caused any
offence. As you know by now I'm in a wheelchair so I would not knowingly
mock anyone's physical infirmity or distress.
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#513: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 14:09:40 by Kimberley Verburg

CCA wrote:
&gt; Kimberley Verburg wrote:

&gt;&gt; Failing that, I also accept kitten pictures. (hint, hint)

&gt; <a href="http://lisa9641.fotopic.net/c1019304.html" target="_blank">http://lisa9641.fotopic.net/c1019304.html</a>
&gt;
&gt; More soon, probably! Especially now she's learnt how to climb right up
&gt; her scratching post and stand on the top *g*

Yay for more kitten pictures! Ella is indeed very sweet.

*shuffles off to contemplate catless state*

--
Kimberley Verburg
<a href="mailto:kim&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">kim&#64;lspace.org</a>

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#514: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 16:35:39 by mcv

Julian Hall &lt;<a href="mailto:lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk" target="_blank">lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:45:10 +0930, 8'FED wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; At birth, all Australians are implanted with a microchip which causes
&gt;&gt; us to have a reflex action whenever someone uses the word &quot;thong&quot; in
&gt;&gt; reference to underwear, compelling us to point out that, in fact,
&gt;&gt; thongs are worn on the feet. Sorry about this; I can't help it.
&gt;
&gt; Whereas in the UK we call what the Aussies call 'thongs', 'flipflops' due
&gt; to the noise made when walking in them.

But in IT, a flipflop is a combination of two transistors that can
store a bit.


mcv.

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#515: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 16:35:39 by Flesh-eating Dragon

Julian Hall wrote:
&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Well, the corset's an orthotic device, and the leather trousers are for
&gt;&gt; durability and lower back support . . . it *is* rather cruel of you to mock
&gt;&gt; my health issues in public.
&gt;
&gt; Hi Anastasia,
&gt;
&gt; If you didn't get my email to you, I do want to apologise if I caused any
&gt; offence. As you know by now I'm in a wheelchair so I would not knowingly
&gt; mock anyone's physical infirmity or distress.

In this case, I think you'll find Stacie was merely pushing deadpan
humour somewhat further than it is usually pushed.

A tad too far in my opinion. I think she made the wrong judgement call
on this one. But it's a reliable rule in life that if Stacie ever
appears to be offended by a combination of the words, 'cold', 'shower'
and 'omigod', then _something_ is not as it seems.

For further reassurance, remember that only a couple of posts down the
thread she wrote, &quot;I don't have any for-lack-of-a-better-term practical
reason to wear a corset&quot;, and, &quot;all I know is I find 'em attractive&quot;.
Health issues are the archetypical for-lack-of-better-term practical
reason, so this was all but an explicit statement that the corset is
not for health reasons.

If she /did/ have such issues, she wouldn't be feeling that you were
mocking something you didn't know about, and she /were/ so offended,
then ... well, put it this way. If you've read Nightwatch, this is the
bit where Samuel Vimes kills his wife.

Adrian.

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#516: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 16:35:39 by Julian Hall

On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 00:12:26 +0930, 8'FED wrote:

&lt;snipping lots of sense&gt;

&gt; If she /did/ have such issues, she wouldn't be feeling that you were
&gt; mocking something you didn't know about, and she /were/ so offended,
&gt; then ... well, put it this way. If you've read Nightwatch, this is the
&gt; bit where Samuel Vimes kills his wife.
&gt;
&gt; Adrian.

Thanks for that Adrian :) I saw the post after being offline three days,
so I lost reack, especially the bits you mentioned which would have been a
bit of a giveaway. I wasn't sure if it was dry wit, but I felt it was
better to post an apology and look a berk than not to and look nasty :)

Yes I have read Nightwatch - my favourite TP - must read it again as ISTR
that if Sam even tried killing Sybil he'd end up as food in the Sanctuary
for Sick Dragons :)

--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#517: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 16:35:39 by Julian Hall

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 14:36:43 +0000, mcv wrote:

&gt; But in IT, a flipflop is a combination of two transistors that can
&gt; store a bit.
&gt;
&gt; mcv.

Which all goes to prove you should never ask an IT person if you can
borrow his flipflops to go on holiday with :)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#518: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 16:35:39 by mcv

Julian Hall &lt;<a href="mailto:lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk" target="_blank">lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 14:36:43 +0000, mcv wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; But in IT, a flipflop is a combination of two transistors that can
&gt;&gt; store a bit.
&gt;
&gt; Which all goes to prove you should never ask an IT person if you can
&gt; borrow his flipflops to go on holiday with :)

Flipflops do seem to be getting back in fashion here, although I really
prefer sandals.


mcv.

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#519: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 18:29:01 by Julian Hall

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 16:09:35 +0000, mcv wrote:

&gt; Flipflops do seem to be getting back in fashion here, although I really
&gt; prefer sandals.

I prefer thicker treads... tyres don't sink in the sand then ;)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#520: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 18:40:28 by Arthur Hagen

Julian Hall &lt;<a href="mailto:lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk" target="_blank">lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 14:36:43 +0000, mcv wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; But in IT, a flipflop is a combination of two transistors that can
&gt;&gt; store a bit.
&gt;
&gt; Which all goes to prove you should never ask an IT person if you can
&gt; borrow his flipflops to go on holiday with :)

He'll lend you mid-level management, who all are flip-flops.

Regards,
--
*Art

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#521: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 19:41:45 by Stacie Hanes

Julian Hall wrote:
&gt; On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 03:29:18 +0000, Anastasia wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Well, the corset's an orthotic device, and the leather trousers
&gt;&gt; are for durability and lower back support . . . it *is* rather
&gt;&gt; cruel of you to mock my health issues in public.
&gt;
&gt; Hi Anastasia,
&gt;
&gt; If you didn't get my email to you, I do want to apologise if I
&gt; caused any offence. As you know by now I'm in a wheelchair so I
&gt; would not knowingly mock anyone's physical infirmity or distress.


I did get it, and replied. Something's funny here....

Anyway, it was a joke. I am known 'round these parts for my interesting
wardrobe, and I saw a chance to claim that it was a *reasonable* and
*necessary* wardrobe.

There should have been a smilie :-)

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#522: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 20:47:52 by Julian Hall

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 17:41:45 +0000, Anastasia wrote:

&gt; There should have been a smilie :-)

No worries, I'm just pleased I didn't upset you :)

Curious though, I didn't get the reply?
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#523: Re: [I] -I- Kiltorcycle, was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-12 21:11:48 by Lesley Weston

in article 44b43907$0$31648$<a href="mailto:e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl" target="_blank">e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl</a>, mcv at <a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>
wrote on 11/07/2006 4:49 PM:

&gt; Julian Hall &lt;<a href="mailto:lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk" target="_blank">lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 20:41:22 +1000, the Tinfoil Hat of Reason wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; but how does one implement a kilt on a motorcyle?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Carefully :)
&gt;
&gt; Protection is important on a motorcycle, and although I really like
&gt; kilts, I'm afraid they offer none. They work fine on a pushbike[1]
&gt; though.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; mcv.
&gt;
&gt; [1] A word I learned in Mali. Apparently both Brits and Australians use
&gt; this to signify a regular pedal bicycle, so I'm assuming it's common
&gt; English, despite never having noticed its use on usenet.

I think so, yes. It's pretty much the same as &quot;acoustic&quot;, like a push mower.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#524: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 00:04:45 by Stacie Hanes

Julian Hall wrote:
&gt; On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 17:41:45 +0000, Anastasia wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; There should have been a smilie :-)
&gt;
&gt; No worries, I'm just pleased I didn't upset you :)
&gt;
&gt; Curious though, I didn't get the reply?

Strange, that.

But in serious mode: you seemed to be (er, still do) a fellow with a healthy
sense of humor, quite in tune with mine, so I felt safe to joke.

I did forget that, kindred spirit or not, you don't know me well. Dragon's
right--the deadpan humor was a bit much of a muchness, without a smilie or a
longer aquaintance. I think most of the people who know me well (as well as
'netfriends can) knew what I meant, but I should have been more clear.

:-)

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#525: Re: [I] Odd socks // was Business attire

Posted on 2006-07-13 00:16:21 by Sofia

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 00:40:57 +0100, Gid Holyoake wrote:

&gt;&gt; when they've finished being cleaned,
&gt;&gt; I take them out the machine, hang everything up tidily, separating what
&gt;&gt; needs to be separated, pairing what needs to be paired etc, and then
&gt;&gt; folding up all his (and my) clothes and putting them in their correct
&gt;&gt; place afterwards for him.
&gt;
&gt; WYMM?..


LOL! Doesn't Suzi do it for you too?

If you say no, I won't believe you!!! :-)


Sofie

--
Please visit my deviantART page: <a href="http://sofen.deviantart.com/" target="_blank">http://sofen.deviantart.com/</a>

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#526: Re: [I] Odd socks // was Business attire

Posted on 2006-07-13 00:22:18 by Stacie Hanes

Sofia wrote:
&gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 00:40:57 +0100, Gid Holyoake wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; when they've finished being cleaned,
&gt;&gt;&gt; I take them out the machine, hang everything up tidily,
&gt;&gt;&gt; separating what needs to be separated, pairing what needs to be
&gt;&gt;&gt; paired etc, and then folding up all his (and my) clothes and
&gt;&gt;&gt; putting them in their correct place afterwards for him.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; WYMM?..
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; LOL! Doesn't Suzi do it for you too?
&gt;
&gt; If you say no, I won't believe you!!! :-)

Gosh, my husband didn't do may laundry and put it away for me. Are you
implying that it's the woman's place to do such things by default? I'm
*very* curious.

Report this message

#527: Re: [I] Odd socks // was Business attire

Posted on 2006-07-13 00:25:14 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 12 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt;

&gt; Sofia wrote:

&gt;&gt; LOL! Doesn't Suzi do it for you too?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; If you say no, I won't believe you!!! :-)
&gt;
&gt; Gosh, my husband didn't do may laundry and put it away for
&gt; me. Are you implying that it's the woman's place to do such
&gt; things by default? I'm *very* curious.

Nothing Sofia says implies *anything*; it's almost entirely
content-free. Realising this is the key to a contented life...

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

Report this message

#528: Re: [I] Art Appreciation

Posted on 2006-07-13 00:55:21 by Sofia

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:53:15 +0100, Julian Hall wrote:

&gt;
&gt; Being nosey I just visited your website. Very impressive artwork :)

Thank you Julian, it's very nice of you to say so - The fab people at
L-space have also added all of my Pterry pic's to their fanart section,
including my latest &quot;Watch Queen&quot; pic', which I wanted to thank Orjan for.

I guess I'm also being extremely nosey in asking Diane to tell me about
the actions to her Siggy sig sig. Maybe I should take my big nose out her
affairs, and attempt to add my own actions? :-)


Thanks again


Sofie

--
Please visit my deviantART page: <a href="http://sofen.deviantart.com/" target="_blank">http://sofen.deviantart.com/</a>

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#529: Re: [I] Art Appreciation

Posted on 2006-07-13 01:19:24 by Stacie Hanes

Sofia wrote:
&gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:53:15 +0100, Julian Hall wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Being nosey I just visited your website. Very impressive artwork
&gt;&gt; :)
&gt;
&gt; Thank you Julian, it's very nice of you to say so - The fab people
&gt; at L-space have also added all of my Pterry pic's to their fanart
&gt; section, including my latest &quot;Watch Queen&quot; pic', which I wanted to
&gt; thank Orjan for.

It's the last time I'll say anything, because Orjan's a big boy and can
speak for himself, but you've been advised repeatedly that Orjan prefers not
to be associated with that particular drawing, or your drag queen jokes.

Report this message

#530: Re: [I] Odd socks // was Business attire

Posted on 2006-07-13 01:21:48 by Stacie Hanes

Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:

&lt;secret of life&gt;

&gt; Realising this is the key to a contented life...

Yes . . . I don't know what's got into me today. My masochistic streak
coming out, I suppose.

Report this message

#531: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 02:03:05 by Sofia

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 07:48:19 -0400, Arthur Hagen wrote:

&gt; Jockstraps, you mean? Thing is, most men aren't vain enough to wear them,
&gt; and don't care if things hang lower after a few decades.


Could I be so blunt as to ask, but, is a jockstrap suppose to do exactly
the same for men, as the bra is for women. I mean is it meant to support
men who are bigger or something perhaps - I haven't a clue? :-)

Just Curious


Sofie



--
Please visit my deviantART page: <a href="http://sofen.deviantart.com/" target="_blank">http://sofen.deviantart.com/</a>

Report this message

#532: Re: [I] AI conversation // was All things Kiltish, was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 02:34:43 by Flesh-eating Dragon

Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:
&gt; 8'FED wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Here's a record of my latest conversation with
&gt;&gt; &lt;www.jabberwacky.com&gt;.
&gt;
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;
&gt; You'd think[1] there would be some sort of logic behind it that
&gt; would become apparant if you set it to speak to itself.

Everything it says is a mishmash of conversations it's had with other
people in the past. I had a conversation with it yesterday that
illustrates a couple of points about how it works.

* *** ***** *** *

IT: Would it please you to know that I am a nonautomated person?
ME: In context, no.
IT: What the.......
ME: I would not like to believe that a real person could be as stupid as you.
IT: Metalness is not for the faint of heart.

Somebody once said to it, &quot;metalness is not for the faint of
heart&quot;, but it hasn't learned any appropriate response to this.
Its strategy is to try and learn an appropriate response by saying
those words and seeing how the user responds.

ME: Nor for the strong of mind.

Now that I've said this, it stores it in its database as a
possible response for the next time someone says &quot;metalness is not
for the faint of heart&quot; or similar.

IT: Yes, FOR humans.
ME: Metalness is not for humans.
IT: Nor for the strong of mind.

Here it spits back my earlier response, because in effect it says
to itself, &quot;Hmmm. What's an appropriate response to 'Metalness is
not for .....'? Well, last time /I/ said a sentence like that, the
response was &quot;Nor for the strong of mind&quot;, so I'll go with that.

ME: Some humans are strong of mind.
IT: Which humans?
ME: Compared to you, practically all of us.


* *** ***** *** *

If you find it completely incoherent, I recommend starting again with
a fresh conversation until you get one with a reasonable amusement
value. At best it'll be like a conversation with an insane person, but
sometimes what you have does, at least, count as a conversation. If
you get a good one, that's funny enough to share, I'd like to see it.

Instead of posting more here, I've decided to upload my conversations
with it to &lt;<a href="http://web.netyp.com/member/dragon/whim/jabberwacky.htm" target="_blank">http://web.netyp.com/member/dragon/whim/jabberwacky.htm</a>&gt;
including some that I had last year.

*I* think they're funny.

Adrian.

Report this message

#533: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 02:47:05 by Arthur Hagen

Sofia &lt;<a href="mailto:pinkmonster2000REMOVE&#64;ALLCAPSyahoo.com" target="_blank">pinkmonster2000REMOVE&#64;ALLCAPSyahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; Could I be so blunt as to ask, but, is a jockstrap suppose to do
&gt; exactly the same for men, as the bra is for women. I mean is it meant
&gt; to support men who are bigger or something perhaps - I haven't a
&gt; clue? :-)
&gt;
&gt; Just Curious

Partially, yes -- much like a sports bra or support bra, they prevent things
from flying around, being in the way, or get hurt, which is why they're used
in many sports, as well as for medical reasons.

But just like with the bra for women, some men use them for a secondary
purpose -- to draw attention to a sexual characteristic. However, I'm
pretty sure that far more women wear a bra where there's no medical[1] or
athletic reasons to do so than men wearing a jockstrap.

[1]: The argument about back problems is real, but only applies to a tiny
(no pun intended) subset of women -- in cultures where it's uncommon to wear
a bra, women don't appear to have a noticably larger amount of back
problems.

Regards,
--
*Art

Report this message

#534: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 03:05:33 by Flesh-eating Dragon

Anastasia wrote:

&gt; Anyway, it was a joke. I am known 'round these parts for my interesting
&gt; wardrobe, and I saw a chance to claim that it was a *reasonable* and
&gt; *necessary* wardrobe.
&gt;
&gt; There should have been a smilie :-)

Actually, in this case I would have recommended a
tongue-sticking-out-and-maybe-simultaneous-wink smiley.

;-P

Adrian.

Report this message

#535: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 05:33:45 by dicconf

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1152542741.830930.98850&#64;s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1152542741.830930.98850&#64;s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
Helen T &lt;<a href="mailto:hnettlet&#64;coventry.ac.uk" target="_blank">hnettlet&#64;coventry.ac.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;Sofia wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; The only trouble is though, although I'm only 5ft 7, it takes me ages
&gt;&gt; looking for a pair of jeans with a 30-31 inch inside leg length, when the
&gt;&gt; average pair of jeans nowadays are made for the 5ft 4 inch woman, with a
&gt;&gt; 27 inch inside leg. God help any women taller that myself, they'll
&gt;&gt; probably end up wearing their men's old jeans with a tight belt perhaps!:)
&gt;
&gt;Ha! I'm 5ft 5 and I struggle to find trousers with short enough legs.
&gt;Maybe they make trousers with varying leg length so they don't fit
&gt;anyone!

I'm also 5ft 5&quot; and my favorite jeans are _some_ versions of one brand only.
I still have to try on all the types to find the ones that fit, and unless
the store has the &quot;petite&quot; version, they need shortening. However, since
they also tend to shrink over time, shortening them would make them too
short after a while. So I turn them up and never mind that they aren't
intended to have cuffs.

=Tamar

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#536: Re: [I] dishwasher, was Odd socks // was Business attire

Posted on 2006-07-13 05:42:17 by dicconf

In article &lt;Hrwsg.99307$<a href="mailto:wl.55905&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk" target="_blank">wl.55905&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk</a>&gt;,
Random C &lt;<a href="mailto:random&#64;panatropic.net" target="_blank">random&#64;panatropic.net</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;I do not currently have control of my own washing. Apparently all
&gt;housework I try to do has been done 'the wrong way' and therefore needs
&gt;to be re-done. Aside from putting more salt in the dishwasher, as mother
&gt;seems incapable of doing so herself.

Salt in the dishwasher?

=tamar

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#537: Re: [I] dishwasher, was Odd socks // was Business attire

Posted on 2006-07-13 05:50:48 by Brenda

Richard Eney said:

&gt; In article &lt;Hrwsg.99307$<a href="mailto:wl.55905&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk" target="_blank">wl.55905&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk</a>&gt;,
&gt; Random C &lt;<a href="mailto:random&#64;panatropic.net" target="_blank">random&#64;panatropic.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;I do not currently have control of my own washing. Apparently all
&gt;&gt;housework I try to do has been done 'the wrong way' and therefore needs
&gt;&gt;to be re-done. Aside from putting more salt in the dishwasher, as mother
&gt;&gt;seems incapable of doing so herself.
&gt;
&gt; Salt in the dishwasher?

Er, yes. For example, see the excellent, albeit brief, paragraph here:
<a href="http://www.dishwasher-care.org.uk/best.html#softener" target="_blank">http://www.dishwasher-care.org.uk/best.html#softener</a>

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

Report this message

#538: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 06:26:21 by dicconf

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:MPG.1f1edca180f1e31989dcd&#64;cenote.gkhs.net" target="_blank">MPG.1f1edca180f1e31989dcd&#64;cenote.gkhs.net</a>&gt;,
Eric Jarvis &lt;<a href="mailto:eric&#64;ericjarvis.co.uk" target="_blank">eric&#64;ericjarvis.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;mcv <a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a> wrote in &lt;44b437a8$0$31648$<a href="mailto:e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl" target="_blank">e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl</a>&gt;:
&gt;&gt; Julian Hall &lt;<a href="mailto:lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk" target="_blank">lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; &gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:52:12 +0000, mcv wrote:
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; I alwasy was under the impression g-strings and thongs were different
&gt;&gt; &gt; animals, the g-string being the skimpier of the two. Or am I getting
&gt;&gt; &gt; thongs confused with tangas?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I really wouldn't know. I can just about tell the difference between
&gt;&gt; briefs and boxers.
&gt;
&gt;Briefs are people who are paid huge sums of money to enter an arena and
&gt;beat their opponents into submission, whist boxers are...
&gt;
&gt;...I dunno, how do you tell them apart?

By the thin watches on the men carrying them around?

=Tamar

Report this message

#539: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 06:30:54 by dicconf

In article &lt;tWTsg.6375$<a href="mailto:ye3.1264&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">ye3.1264&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:esmeraldus&#64;earthlink.net" target="_blank">esmeraldus&#64;earthlink.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;Lister wrote:
&gt;&gt; &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;&gt; You wear string for underwear? :)
&gt;
&gt;More or less. If I put the lot into the washer together, it would probably
&gt;emerge as a scarf.

It doesn't have to be thongs to try that. Some days it's more of an afghan.

=Tamar

Report this message

#540: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 07:14:11 by steelcat

In article &lt;44b51ebf$0$31651$<a href="mailto:e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl" target="_blank">e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl</a>&gt;,
mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Julian Hall &lt;<a href="mailto:lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk" target="_blank">lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 14:36:43 +0000, mcv wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; But in IT, a flipflop is a combination of two transistors that can
&gt;&gt;&gt; store a bit.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Which all goes to prove you should never ask an IT person if you can
&gt;&gt; borrow his flipflops to go on holiday with :)
&gt;
&gt;Flipflops do seem to be getting back in fashion here, although I really
&gt;prefer sandals.

I would have to say I prefer any footwear that covers the feet completely.
While I'm a big fan of feet in general - they're incredibly useful devices
and I'd hate to be without either of mine - they really aren't pretty
things at the best of times and the general state of feet as seen in
sandals or flip-flops leaves a lot to be desired.

Cat.
--
Jazz-Loving Soul Mate and Tolerable Frog to CCA
&quot;The patient was cynical and his pupils were dilapidated.&quot;

Report this message

#541: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 08:29:45 by Stacie Hanes

Richard Eney wrote:
&gt; In article &lt;tWTsg.6375$<a href="mailto:ye3.1264&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">ye3.1264&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
&gt; Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:esmeraldus&#64;earthlink.net" target="_blank">esmeraldus&#64;earthlink.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; Lister wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; You wear string for underwear? :)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; More or less. If I put the lot into the washer together, it would
&gt;&gt; probably emerge as a scarf.
&gt;
&gt; It doesn't have to be thongs to try that. Some days it's more of
&gt; an afghan.
..
..
..
..
Personal space
..
..
..
..
...
..
..
...
I mean it--I'm going to discuss my underwear.
..
..
...
..
Somehow, my underwear stock turned into 85% thongs. The 14% more is lace,
and the last percentile we'll just call random skivvies (there's a pair of
white &quot;boy&quot; briefs with a cartoon frog on the front). If you count lace as
complicated string, I reckon I have about a gazillion dollars worth of
complicated thread constructs in my dresser drawer. Victoria's secret is
that she's selling stretchy string at about $1.50 per gram.

Report this message

#542: [I] -I- All things G-rated //was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 10:07:34 by PeterH

It all started on Tue, 11 Jul 2006 20:33:29 +0000, when Anastasia wrote:

&gt; Lister wrote:
&gt;&gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:03:18 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt;
&gt;&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; mcv wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In order to nip this misunderstanding in the bud: string theory is
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; *not* about underwear.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Pity, I was looking for an explanation of my underwear drawer.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; You wear string for underwear? :)
&gt;
&gt; More or less. If I put the lot into the washer together, it would probably
&gt; emerge as a scarf.

Issue with Strings 1:
My first exposure to the world of the thong was hearing my older female
cousin being very sarcastic about two silly women who had sunbathed by the
swimming pool in their g-strings and made a big deal about it. Stand-out
comments: &quot;They must have been very uncomfortable&quot; and &quot;Why would anyone
want to floss their bum?&quot;

Issue with Strings 2:
Last year my housemate asked if I could look at some problem with her
computer while she was away. So I went into her bedroom to sort things
out, but five minutes later gave up - as the sight of all her g-strings
lying all over the floor and dangling from every door handle was just
making me feel sick.

Issue with Strings 3:
Girlfriend from a very long time ago was exceptionally proud of her
Garfield g-string. I couldn't decide which I found to be more disturbing:
the fact that she wore a g-string or the fact that it had a fatuous
cartoon cat drawn on the front of it.

I am often told I'm odd.


...PeterH

Report this message

#543: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 13:01:33 by Diane L

Sofia wrote:
&gt; On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 04:23:33 +0000, April Goodwin-Smith wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Oooo. Sig? Siggy? Sig sig sig?
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pretty please? Please?
&gt;&gt;&gt; Er, yes, if you like. You could probably improve the phrasing
&gt;&gt;&gt; and make it a bit more snappy, though. 'Based on an idea by
&gt;&gt;&gt; Diane L' would be fine :-)
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I think the phrasing is just fine the way it is. Thank you.
&gt;&gt; Now all I have to do is remember how to set a sig.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Ummm - well I've never actually asked for it this way either April,
&gt; but it sounds really cute'n'sweet - I think I'll have to remember to
&gt; ask for it like this too next time.
&gt;
&gt; I wonder Diane if you could also tell me, as I'm yearning to know -
&gt; are there any really great actions that I should also be adding to
&gt; the &quot;Siggy sig sig&quot; that are suppose to go with it to make it even
&gt; sweeter?

I'm sorry, Sofia, I really don't understand the question. When April
said 'Siggy sig sig' she was asking me if I minded her using what
I'd written as a sig (the phrases people use at the ends of their
posts because they find them amusing or thought provoking). I
answered her by saying that she was welcome to use it, but she
migt want to improve the phrasing a bit. She said she was happy
with the phrasing how it was.

Does that help, or have I completely misunderstood your post?

Diane L.

Report this message

#544: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 13:21:31 by mcv

The Stainless Steel Cat &lt;<a href="mailto:steelcat&#64;atuin.demon.co.uk" target="_blank">steelcat&#64;atuin.demon.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; In article &lt;44b51ebf$0$31651$<a href="mailto:e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl" target="_blank">e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl</a>&gt;,
&gt; mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;Julian Hall &lt;<a href="mailto:lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk" target="_blank">lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 14:36:43 +0000, mcv wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; But in IT, a flipflop is a combination of two transistors that can
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; store a bit.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Which all goes to prove you should never ask an IT person if you can
&gt;&gt;&gt; borrow his flipflops to go on holiday with :)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Flipflops do seem to be getting back in fashion here, although I really
&gt;&gt;prefer sandals.
&gt;
&gt; I would have to say I prefer any footwear that covers the feet completely.
&gt; While I'm a big fan of feet in general - they're incredibly useful devices
&gt; and I'd hate to be without either of mine - they really aren't pretty
&gt; things at the best of times and the general state of feet as seen in
&gt; sandals or flip-flops leaves a lot to be desired.

I like walking on bare feet, or I would, if streets and sidewalks weren't
paved with stones and tarmac and stuff like that. Sandals are a nice
compromise. Cool yet comfortable in every possible way, as long as it's
not raining or cold.

I couldn't care less about what other people think about my feet. If
they don't like looking at them, they can always look at my face instead.
And feet generally don't look at that bad, actually. I also like seeing
other people on bare feet or in sandals.


mcv.

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#545: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 13:26:22 by mcv

8'FED &lt;<a href="mailto:dragon&#64;netyp.com.au" target="_blank">dragon&#64;netyp.com.au</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; well, put it this way. If you've read Nightwatch, this is the
&gt; bit where Samuel Vimes kills his wife.

Does he? Thanks for the spoiler. I hadn't read it yet.


mcv.

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#546: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 13:32:27 by mcv

Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; I did forget that, kindred spirit or not, you don't know me well. Dragon's
&gt; right--the deadpan humor was a bit much of a muchness, without a smilie or a
&gt; longer aquaintance. I think most of the people who know me well (as well as
&gt; 'netfriends can) knew what I meant, but I should have been more clear.

Just to make things more confusing: I thought it was obviously a joke,
and appreciated the lack of smiley. I fear I may have a similar sense
of humour.

But help is on the way: last week I met a girl who doesn't mind telling
me when my jokes are inapppropriate. Saliva jokes during or after
kissing, for example. I'll try not to make those anymore.


mcv.

Report this message

#547: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 13:47:14 by Diane L

mcv wrote:
&gt; 8'FED &lt;<a href="mailto:dragon&#64;netyp.com.au" target="_blank">dragon&#64;netyp.com.au</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; well, put it this way. If you've read Nightwatch, this is the
&gt;&gt; bit where Samuel Vimes kills his wife.
&gt;
&gt; Does he? Thanks for the spoiler. I hadn't read it yet.
&gt;
Don't worry. It's not a spoiler. It's just a phrase that won't
make much sense if you haven't read the book, but does
for those of us who have.

Diane L.

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#548: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 13:47:18 by Arthur Hagen

mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; But help is on the way: last week I met a girl who doesn't mind
&gt; telling me when my jokes are inapppropriate. Saliva jokes during or
&gt; after kissing, for example. I'll try not to make those anymore.

*During* kissing? Are you a ventriloquist?

Regards,
--
*Art

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#549: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 14:04:00 by esmi

on 13/07/2006 01:47 Arthur Hagen said the following:
&gt; Sofia &lt;<a href="mailto:pinkmonster2000REMOVE&#64;ALLCAPSyahoo.com" target="_blank">pinkmonster2000REMOVE&#64;ALLCAPSyahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; Could I be so blunt as to ask, but, is a jockstrap suppose to do
&gt;&gt; exactly the same for men, as the bra is for women.

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; Partially, yes -- much like a sports bra or support bra, they prevent things
&gt; from flying around, being in the way, or get hurt, which is why they're used
&gt; in many sports, as well as for medical reasons.

I used to have a weekend job in a sports shop that sold, amongst other
things, jockstraps. You have never seen men squirm so much as when
confronted by a female assistant asking &quot;Jockstrap? What size? Small,
Medium or Large?&quot;[1].

Funnily enough, we never seemed to sell many in the Small size...

&gt; But just like with the bra for women, some men use them for a secondary
&gt; purpose -- to draw attention to a sexual characteristic. However, I'm
&gt; pretty sure that far more women wear a bra where there's no medical[1] or
&gt; athletic reasons to do so than men wearing a jockstrap.

Depends what you mean by 'athletic'. Running for a bus or running
upstairs can be quite uncomfortable for even a moderately sized bra-less
female.

&gt; [1]: The argument about back problems is real, but only applies to a tiny
&gt; (no pun intended) subset of women -- in cultures where it's uncommon to wear
&gt; a bra, women don't appear to have a noticably larger amount of back
&gt; problems.

But some of those cultures would, presumably, include societies where
medical care is limited and backache is unlikely to be even reported -
let alone diagnosed/treated. So the results from anything other than a
specific survey into a correlation between breast size and back problems
are likely to be somewhat skewed towards low incidence compared to a
similar subset of bra-wearing women in first world countries.

--
esmi

[1] They were actually in 3 waist sizes - although I'm sure a certain
amount of relative sizing of the 'pouch' was involved.

A Brief Guide to alt.fan.pratchett:
<a href="http://www.blackwidows.co.uk/afp-guide/" target="_blank">http://www.blackwidows.co.uk/afp-guide/</a>

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#550: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 14:12:32 by news0607

Diane L wrote:
&gt; It's just a phrase that won't
&gt; make much sense if you haven't read the book, but does
&gt; for those of us who have.

It does? Not to me...

Michael

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#551: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 15:33:30 by Arthur Hagen

esmi &lt;<a href="mailto:esmi&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">esmi&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; on 13/07/2006 01:47 Arthur Hagen said the following:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Partially, yes -- much like a sports bra or support bra, they
&gt;&gt; prevent things from flying around, being in the way, or get hurt,
&gt;&gt; which is why they're used in many sports, as well as for medical
&gt;&gt; reasons.
&gt;
&gt; I used to have a weekend job in a sports shop that sold, amongst other
&gt; things, jockstraps. You have never seen men squirm so much as when
&gt; confronted by a female assistant asking &quot;Jockstrap? What size? Small,
&gt; Medium or Large?&quot;[1].
&gt;
&gt; Funnily enough, we never seemed to sell many in the Small size...

It wouldn't surprise me if the manufacturers compensate for this by
offsetting the sizes. They do for condoms, where &quot;large&quot; means &quot;average&quot;.

&gt;&gt; But just like with the bra for women, some men use them for a
&gt;&gt; secondary purpose -- to draw attention to a sexual characteristic.
&gt;&gt; However, I'm pretty sure that far more women wear a bra where
&gt;&gt; there's no medical[1] or athletic reasons to do so than men wearing
&gt;&gt; a jockstrap.
&gt;
&gt; Depends what you mean by 'athletic'. Running for a bus or running
&gt; upstairs can be quite uncomfortable for even a moderately sized
&gt; bra-less female.

Same argument goes for footwear, yet you don't see a majority of women
insist on sneakers instead of something you can't possibly run in without
discomfort, do you?

&gt;&gt; [1]: The argument about back problems is real, but only applies to
&gt;&gt; a tiny (no pun intended) subset of women -- in cultures where it's
&gt;&gt; uncommon to wear a bra, women don't appear to have a noticably
&gt;&gt; larger amount of back problems.
&gt;
&gt; But some of those cultures would, presumably, include societies where
&gt; medical care is limited and backache is unlikely to be even reported -
&gt; let alone diagnosed/treated. So the results from anything other than a
&gt; specific survey into a correlation between breast size and back
&gt; problems are likely to be somewhat skewed towards low incidence
&gt; compared to a similar subset of bra-wearing women in first world
&gt; countries.

I bring exhibit A: Evolution. I'd think evolution favours just enough
muscle tissue to carry breasts just big enough to attract males. Exceptions
will either have less chance of attracting a male, or back problems which
lowers the chance of survival of the offspring, so they'll be just that --
exceptions.

Regards,
--
*Art

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#552: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 16:10:35 by Lister

On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 06:14:11 +0100, <a href="mailto:steelcat&#64;atuin.demon.co.uk" target="_blank">steelcat&#64;atuin.demon.co.uk</a> (The
Stainless Steel Cat) wrote:

&gt;In article &lt;44b51ebf$0$31651$<a href="mailto:e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl" target="_blank">e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl</a>&gt;,
&gt;mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Julian Hall &lt;<a href="mailto:lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk" target="_blank">lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 14:36:43 +0000, mcv wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; But in IT, a flipflop is a combination of two transistors that can
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; store a bit.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Which all goes to prove you should never ask an IT person if you can
&gt;&gt;&gt; borrow his flipflops to go on holiday with :)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Flipflops do seem to be getting back in fashion here, although I really
&gt;&gt;prefer sandals.
&gt;
&gt;I would have to say I prefer any footwear that covers the feet completely.
&gt;While I'm a big fan of feet in general - they're incredibly useful devices
&gt;and I'd hate to be without either of mine - they really aren't pretty
&gt;things at the best of times and the general state of feet as seen in
&gt;sandals or flip-flops leaves a lot to be desired.
&gt;
&gt;Cat.


This depends very much on the person, of course. Some people have
very nice feet.

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#553: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 16:19:13 by Julian Hall

On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 14:12:32 +0200, Michael J. Schülke wrote:

&gt; It does? Not to me...
&gt;
&gt; Michael

Me either TBH
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#554: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 16:26:31 by Julian Hall

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 22:04:45 +0000, Anastasia wrote:

&gt; Strange, that.
&gt;
&gt; But in serious mode: you seemed to be (er, still do) a fellow with a healthy
&gt; sense of humor, quite in tune with mine, so I felt safe to joke.

Yes you would be normally :) Safe that is. I think the only hitch was
that I lost NG access for three days and when I got back I'd lost the
thread a bit[1] *and* I had forgotten the other comments you made
elsewhere in this - erm.. 800 post thread about Bra Measurement? Yay I'm
home!

*ahem* erm. Anyway as I said in one of the other posts, better to
apologise and look daft for not realising it was a joke, than not and look
hard-hearted if it wasn't :)

&gt; I did forget that, kindred spirit or not, you don't know me well. Dragon's
&gt; right--the deadpan humor was a bit much of a muchness, without a smilie or a
&gt; longer aquaintance. I think most of the people who know me well (as well as
&gt; 'netfriends can) knew what I meant, but I should have been more clear.

No worries, no damage done :)

&gt; :-)

:o)

[1] Partially due to a memory problem, i.e I don't have one :)

--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#555: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 16:28:54 by Julian Hall

On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 11:21:31 +0000, mcv wrote:

&gt; I couldn't care less about what other people think about my feet. If
&gt; they don't like looking at them, they can always look at my face instead.

Decisions decisions ;)

--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#556: Re: [I] -I- All things G-rated //was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 16:30:23 by Julian Hall

On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:07:34 +0200, Peter Davies wrote:

&gt; Issue with Strings 3:
&gt; Girlfriend from a very long time ago was exceptionally proud of her
&gt; Garfield g-string. I couldn't decide which I found to be more disturbing:
&gt; the fact that she wore a g-string or the fact that it had a fatuous
&gt; cartoon cat drawn on the front of it.

Nononono... leaving that well alone!
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#557: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 16:33:44 by mcv

Arthur Hagen &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; But help is on the way: last week I met a girl who doesn't mind
&gt;&gt; telling me when my jokes are inapppropriate. Saliva jokes during or
&gt;&gt; after kissing, for example. I'll try not to make those anymore.
&gt;
&gt; *During* kissing? Are you a ventriloquist?

That day I learned that kissing is a process that can take many
hours, with lips not constantly touching all the time. There is
some room to say something while moving from kissing one part of
the other person's body to another.

It was a very educational experience. And pleasant too.


mcv.

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#558: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 16:41:37 by Julian Hall

On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 02:29:45 -0400, Anastasia wrote:

&gt; .
&gt; .
&gt; .
&gt; .
&gt; Personal space
&gt; .
&gt; .
&gt; .

&lt;invasion of&gt; ;)

&gt; .
&gt; ..
&gt; .
&gt; .
&gt; ..
&gt; I mean it--I'm going to discuss my underwear.
&gt; .
&gt; .

OK :)

&gt; Victoria's secret is
&gt; that she's selling stretchy string at about $1.50 per gram.

£11.35 per gram for gold ($US20.93 or 16.47 Eu)

String's a bargain!

/me invests in string before Anastasia sends the price rocketing ;)

--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#559: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 16:42:59 by Julian Hall

On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 13:04:00 +0100, esmi wrote:

&gt; Funnily enough, we never seemed to sell many in the Small size...

I bet you sold a lot of socks though ;)

--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#560: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 16:49:46 by mcv

Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; ..
&gt; .
&gt; Somehow, my underwear stock turned into 85% thongs. The 14% more is lace,
&gt; and the last percentile we'll just call random skivvies (there's a pair of
&gt; white &quot;boy&quot; briefs with a cartoon frog on the front).

100 pieces of underwear? Is that related to the shoes thing?


mcv.

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#561: Re: [I] -I- All things G-rated //was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 17:03:36 by Paul Harman

Peter Davies wrote:
&gt; Girlfriend from a very long time ago was exceptionally proud of her
&gt; Garfield g-string. I couldn't decide which I found to be more disturbing:
&gt; the fact that she wore a g-string or the fact that it had a fatuous
&gt; cartoon cat drawn on the front of it.


&lt;insert pussy joke here&gt;

Paul

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#562: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 17:11:21 by Diane L

Michael J. Schülke wrote:
&gt; Diane L wrote:
&gt;&gt; It's just a phrase that won't
&gt;&gt; make much sense if you haven't read the book, but does
&gt;&gt; for those of us who have.
&gt;
&gt; It does? Not to me...


OK, spoilers for Night Watch
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
Real ones this time
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1
Don't say I didn't warn you
2
4
6
8
10
12
14
16
18

In NW, there is a conversation between Vimes and Lao Tsu
(if I'm remembering the sweeper's name right) wherein it
is established that there is no universe among all the possible
existing universes where Sam Vimes as he is now would
murder his wife. Hence, Adrian was referring to a set of
circumstances that would never happen.

Diane L.

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#563: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 17:14:31 by Lister

On 13 Jul 2006 14:49:46 GMT, mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; ..
&gt;&gt; .
&gt;&gt; Somehow, my underwear stock turned into 85% thongs. The 14% more is lace,
&gt;&gt; and the last percentile we'll just call random skivvies (there's a pair of
&gt;&gt; white &quot;boy&quot; briefs with a cartoon frog on the front).
&gt;
&gt;100 pieces of underwear? Is that related to the shoes thing?


And shouldn't you have 366 pairs anyway?

(one of which only exists once every four years)

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#564: Re: [I] -I- All things G-rated //was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 17:17:43 by Diane L

Peter Davies wrote:

&lt;snip&gt;
&gt; Issue with Strings 2:
&gt; Last year my housemate asked if I could look at some problem with her
&gt; computer while she was away. So I went into her bedroom to sort things
&gt; out, but five minutes later gave up - as the sight of all her
&gt; g-strings lying all over the floor and dangling from every door
&gt; handle was just making me feel sick.

That strikes me as being very rude (of her, not of you). If you're asking
a man with whom you're not in an intimate relationship into your room
you should ensure that underwear is out of sight where it won't embarass
him. Of course, it could have been an attempt to introduce the possibility
of an intimate relationship into your mind, in which case it was obviously
a failure.

Diane L.

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#565: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 17:49:49 by Lister

On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 16:11:21 +0100, &quot;Diane L&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:dianenews&#64;lindquist.plus.com" target="_blank">dianenews&#64;lindquist.plus.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Michael J. Schülke wrote:
&gt;&gt; Diane L wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; It's just a phrase that won't
&gt;&gt;&gt; make much sense if you haven't read the book, but does
&gt;&gt;&gt; for those of us who have.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; It does? Not to me...
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;OK, spoilers for Night Watch
&gt;1
&gt;2
&gt;3
&gt;4
&gt;5
&gt;6
&gt;7
&gt;8
&gt;9
&gt;Real ones this time
&gt;9
&gt;8
&gt;7
&gt;6
&gt;5
&gt;4
&gt;3
&gt;2
&gt;1
&gt;Don't say I didn't warn you
&gt;2
&gt;4
&gt;6
&gt;8
&gt;10
&gt;12
&gt;14
&gt;16
&gt;18
&gt;
&gt;In NW, there is a conversation between Vimes and Lao Tsu
&gt;(if I'm remembering the sweeper's name right)

&lt;snip&gt;

Lu-Tze, but you're otherwise right :)
&gt;

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#566: Re: [I] -I- All things G-rated //was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 17:51:55 by Lister

On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 16:03:36 +0100, Paul Harman
&lt;<a href="mailto:chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net" target="_blank">chatterbox&#64;doctorwhowebguide.net</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Peter Davies wrote:
&gt;&gt; Girlfriend from a very long time ago was exceptionally proud of her
&gt;&gt; Garfield g-string. I couldn't decide which I found to be more disturbing:
&gt;&gt; the fact that she wore a g-string or the fact that it had a fatuous
&gt;&gt; cartoon cat drawn on the front of it.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&lt;insert pussy joke here&gt;

I was going to, but thought it might be a bit obvious :)

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#567: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 18:05:00 by Sanity

mcv wrote:

&gt; 8'FED &lt;<a href="mailto:dragon&#64;netyp.com.au" target="_blank">dragon&#64;netyp.com.au</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; well, put it this way. If you've read Nightwatch, this is the
&gt;&gt; bit where Samuel Vimes kills his wife.
&gt;
&gt; Does he? Thanks for the spoiler. I hadn't read it yet.

The dilemma now is: whatever we tell you next is a spoiler. So I won't say
it was a joke, because then you'd *know* it isn't true and that's a
spoiler. And of course I can't tell you whether it matters to know or not
know this, as this could spoil the story too.

So I won't respond to this at the present time.

--
TTFN, | AFPChess, Planet AFP, L-Files &amp; more:
| <a href="http://www.affordable-prawns.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.affordable-prawns.co.uk/</a>
| Afpers' blogs: <a href="http://planetafp.affordable-prawns.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://planetafp.affordable-prawns.co.uk/</a>
Michel AKA Sanity | Discworld &amp; Pratchett Wiki: <a href="http://wiki.lspace.org/" target="_blank">http://wiki.lspace.org/</a>

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#568: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 18:12:45 by Lesley Weston

in article e94569$bl1$<a href="mailto:1&#64;tree.broomstick.com" target="_blank">1&#64;tree.broomstick.com</a>, Arthur Hagen at
<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a> wrote on 12/07/2006 5:47 PM:

&lt;jockstraps&gt;

&gt; But just like with the bra for women, some men use them for a secondary
&gt; purpose -- to draw attention to a sexual characteristic. However, I'm
&gt; pretty sure that far more women wear a bra where there's no medical[1] or
&gt; athletic reasons to do so than men wearing a jockstrap.
&gt;
&gt; [1]: The argument about back problems is real, but only applies to a tiny
&gt; (no pun intended) subset of women -- in cultures where it's uncommon to wear
&gt; a bra, women don't appear to have a noticably larger amount of back
&gt; problems.

You could be right - I'm not going to Google on any of the appropriate terms
that I can think of. But bras are uncomfortable; less so if they fit
properly, but still they are always less comfortable than going without if
you are doing nothing but sitting about - the moment you start to do
anything at all active [1], wearing a bra becomes very much more comfortable
than not doing so. So, given the amount of time spent sitting around by even
the most active of people, I don't think many women would wear bras if they
didn't need to.

Later today I'm going shopping for new bras - as well as being
uncomfortable they wear out. So this thread has suddenly become relevant to
me, although I've been mostly skipping it up to now.

[1] Except that, of course.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#569: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 18:38:13 by Julian Hall

On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 16:11:21 +0100, Diane L wrote:

&lt;snipped spoiler as I have read the book but forgot this bit&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Diane L.

Ah.. gotcha :)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#570: Re: [I] -I- All things G-rated //was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 18:41:06 by Julian Hall

On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 16:51:55 +0100, Lister wrote:

&gt; I was going to, but thought it might be a bit obvious :)

Ditto, I'm not surprised someone deemed it worthy of inclusion ;)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#571: Re: [I] -I- All things G-rated //was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 18:58:50 by Kevin Golding

Diane L &lt;<a href="mailto:dianenews&#64;lindquist.plus.com" target="_blank">dianenews&#64;lindquist.plus.com</a>&gt; once did write....
&gt;Peter Davies wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt; Issue with Strings 2:
&gt;&gt; Last year my housemate asked if I could look at some problem with her
&gt;&gt; computer while she was away. So I went into her bedroom to sort things
&gt;&gt; out, but five minutes later gave up - as the sight of all her
&gt;&gt; g-strings lying all over the floor and dangling from every door
&gt;&gt; handle was just making me feel sick.

Should we ask what condition this underwear was in or were you just
disgusted by general slovenly behaviour? If you don't mind the clutter
and the stuff was clean I'm not sure I understand what's so nauseating
about any underwear.

&gt;That strikes me as being very rude (of her, not of you). If you're asking
&gt;a man with whom you're not in an intimate relationship into your room
&gt;you should ensure that underwear is out of sight where it won't embarass
&gt;him.

To an extent I'd agree but as housemates there's bound to be a degree of
underwear spotting that happens naturally unless everyone has full
laundry facilities in their room. I would be more inclined to agree for
someone else such as a neighbour or cow-orker. Although I'm not sure
why since the more I think about it the more I realise I seem to see it
the other way round.

I'm embarrassed at the idea of other people seeing my underwear around
the place, even in neat piles of freshly laundered clothes. It's
possibly more an objection to people seeing I don't keep my home tidy to
the standards I was raised by than the idea of someone actually seeing
my underwear.

In the other direction I don't think I'd be embarrassed encountering
other people's underwear around their own homes either. Possibly
embarrassed on their behalf if they seemed awkward about the whole
thing, but not really for just spotting underwear. Maybe if I had to
move some crotch-less knickers to sit down I guess it could be slightly
awkward, although I suspect they'd either flush bright red and I'd claim
sympathy or they'd be rather brazen about it and being embarrassed would
just seem inappropriate.

Of course I'd still claim she should've tidied up, but just because
that's the polite thing to do (TM)

Caomhin

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#572: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 19:54:37 by mcv

Sanity &lt;<a href="mailto:sanityDELETETHIS&#64;affordable-prawns.co.uk" target="_blank">sanityDELETETHIS&#64;affordable-prawns.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; mcv wrote:
&gt;&gt; 8'FED &lt;<a href="mailto:dragon&#64;netyp.com.au" target="_blank">dragon&#64;netyp.com.au</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; well, put it this way. If you've read Nightwatch, this is the
&gt;&gt;&gt; bit where Samuel Vimes kills his wife.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Does he? Thanks for the spoiler. I hadn't read it yet.
&gt;
&gt; The dilemma now is: whatever we tell you next is a spoiler. So I won't say
&gt; it was a joke, because then you'd *know* it isn't true and that's a
&gt; spoiler. And of course I can't tell you whether it matters to know or not
&gt; know this, as this could spoil the story too.
&gt;
&gt; So I won't respond to this at the present time.

I guess I'll just have to read the book, then. Fortunately, it's at the
top of the list after I finish Green Mars.


mcv.

Report this message

#573: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 20:11:30 by esmi

on 13/07/2006 14:33 Arthur Hagen said the following:
&gt; esmi &lt;<a href="mailto:esmi&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">esmi&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:

&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt; Depends what you mean by 'athletic'. Running for a bus or running
&gt;&gt; upstairs can be quite uncomfortable for even a moderately sized
&gt;&gt; bra-less female.

&gt; Same argument goes for footwear, yet you don't see a majority of women
&gt; insist on sneakers instead of something you can't possibly run in without
&gt; discomfort, do you?

Different type of discomfort. Some kinds of shoes make your feet ache,
granted, but it's tolerable [1]. Running for a bus bra-less can bring
tears to the eyes. It's a very unpleasant sensation. Trust me on this...

[backache amongst the bra-less]
&gt; So the results from anything other than a
&gt;&gt; specific survey into a correlation between breast size and back
&gt;&gt; problems are likely to be somewhat skewed towards low incidence
&gt;&gt; compared to a similar subset of bra-wearing women in first world
&gt;&gt; countries.

&gt; I bring exhibit A: Evolution. I'd think evolution favours just enough
&gt; muscle tissue to carry breasts just big enough to attract males. Exceptions
&gt; will either have less chance of attracting a male, or back problems which
&gt; lowers the chance of survival of the offspring, so they'll be just that --
&gt; exceptions.

And I bring you Exhibits B (hands) and C (arms). Women will use both [2]
to compensate for lack of other support for short periods of time. A
well positioned pair of arms can be very helpful when running up stairs.

However, a quick flick through National Geographic will demonstrate that
the little muscle tissue present in the female chest area doesn't cope
too well with breasts long term, so to speak. Well, not unless you want
them waist length around the age of 35.

As for back problems, I'm not convinced that this would really impact on
offspring survival - though, if it did, it would suggest a slight
evolutionary pressure towards women with smaller breasts - which would,
in turn, ruin your argument about women not suffering an undue incidence
of back problems in cultures where breast support Of one type or
another) is not used. In theory, such cultures would be producing fewer
large breasted women anyway.

--
esmi

[1] By those who value 'look' over comfort and potential skeletal damage.
[2] Preferably their own - just in case anyone is getting over-excited.

A Brief Guide to alt.fan.pratchett:
<a href="http://www.blackwidows.co.uk/afp-guide/" target="_blank">http://www.blackwidows.co.uk/afp-guide/</a>

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#574: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 20:13:53 by esmi

on 13/07/2006 15:42 Julian Hall said the following:
&gt; On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 13:04:00 +0100, esmi wrote:

&gt;&gt; Funnily enough, we never seemed to sell many in the Small size...

&gt; I bet you sold a lot of socks though ;)

You'd need to be *really*... um... under-confident to want to use rolled
up football (soccer) socks. Those things are *bulky*!

--
esmi

A Brief Guide to alt.fan.pratchett:
<a href="http://www.blackwidows.co.uk/afp-guide/" target="_blank">http://www.blackwidows.co.uk/afp-guide/</a>

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#575: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 20:14:16 by alec

In article &lt;e95dbk$150h$<a href="mailto:1&#64;mud.stack.nl" target="_blank">1&#64;mud.stack.nl</a>&gt;, <a href="mailto:esmi&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">esmi&#64;lspace.org</a> says...

&gt; I used to have a weekend job in a sports shop that sold, amongst other
&gt; things, jockstraps. You have never seen men squirm so much as when
&gt; confronted by a female assistant asking &quot;Jockstrap? What size? Small,
&gt; Medium or Large?&quot;[1].

The thing that startled me most was a long time ago, visiting (as was
not my habit) a sex shop, hearing an attractive young female assistant
giving exact instruction on how to put on one of the more original
condoms on sale there. Since I was 17 and a virgin at the time, my
knowledge was considerably expanded.

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#576: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 20:20:37 by alec

In article &lt;e95i39$dk8$<a href="mailto:1&#64;tree.broomstick.com" target="_blank">1&#64;tree.broomstick.com</a>&gt;, <a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>
says...

&gt; I bring exhibit A: Evolution. I'd think evolution favours just enough
&gt; muscle tissue to carry breasts just big enough to attract males. Exceptions
&gt; will either have less chance of attracting a male, or back problems which
&gt; lowers the chance of survival of the offspring, so they'll be just that --
&gt; exceptions.

OTOH, since the advent of medicine that works, IMO one of the most
important driving factors in the evolution of humans today is sexual
attractiveness (in the broadest sense). Lots of other factors which
would have weeded out insufficiently athletic women in the past no
longer operate. And, while breast size/quality is far from the only
facet of female attractiveness, it is a significant one, particularly in
Western society. So it would not surprise me if humanity was unknowingly
selecting for increasingly large breasts, and that women in the west
today have on average much larger breasts, and hence need for bras,
than many generations ago. Clothes also contribute: the more layers of
clothes you are wearing, the bigger the breasts need to be to make a
positive announcement of femininity.

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#577: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 20:26:58 by raltbos

Eric Jarvis &lt;<a href="mailto:eric&#64;ericjarvis.co.uk" target="_blank">eric&#64;ericjarvis.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; mcv <a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a> wrote in &lt;44b437a8$0$31648$<a href="mailto:e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl" target="_blank">e4fe514c&#64;news.xs4all.nl</a>&gt;:
&gt; &gt; Julian Hall &lt;<a href="mailto:lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk" target="_blank">lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt; &gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:52:12 +0000, mcv wrote:
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; I alwasy was under the impression g-strings and thongs were different
&gt; &gt; &gt; animals, the g-string being the skimpier of the two. Or am I getting
&gt; &gt; &gt; thongs confused with tangas?
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; I really wouldn't know. I can just about tell the difference between
&gt; &gt; briefs and boxers.
&gt;
&gt; Briefs are people who are paid huge sums of money to enter an arena and
&gt; beat their opponents into submission, whist boxers are...
&gt;
&gt; ...I dunno, how do you tell them apart?

Boxers have more legs and fewer arms, slobber more, bark louder but less
nastily, and are closer to human.

Richard

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#578: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 20:26:59 by raltbos

&quot;Arthur Hagen&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; Julian Hall &lt;<a href="mailto:lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk" target="_blank">lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt; On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 14:36:43 +0000, mcv wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; But in IT, a flipflop is a combination of two transistors that can
&gt; &gt;&gt; store a bit.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Which all goes to prove you should never ask an IT person if you can
&gt; &gt; borrow his flipflops to go on holiday with :)
&gt;
&gt; He'll lend you mid-level management, who all are flip-flops.

No. It's higher management who can remember only a single bit of
information. Most middle managers are even less useful.

Richard

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#579: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 20:33:53 by raltbos

Julian Hall &lt;<a href="mailto:lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk" target="_blank">lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; David Dickinson and Paul Martin[1]

&gt; [1] Don't EVER, if you forget a presenter's name, Google for 'Paul
&gt; flogit'. A bit like trying to educate a retarded dwarf. It's not big and
&gt; it's not clever.

Huh? Top of the list is the right one for me. What's the problem?

Richard

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#580: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 20:36:23 by steelcat

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:2nocb2l59hcai83r5jaf8vg8thfaupn6vf&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">2nocb2l59hcai83r5jaf8vg8thfaupn6vf&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;,
Lister &lt;<a href="mailto:fache&#64;SPAMclara.net" target="_blank">fache&#64;SPAMclara.net</a>&gt; wrote:

[underwear]
&gt;And shouldn't you have 366 pairs anyway?
&gt;
&gt;(one of which only exists once every four years)

Which brings to mind a Benny Hill mini-sketch.

Out in the garden, Benny watches his very pretty, bikini-clad neighbour
hanging her skimpy panties on the washing line. Each has writing on it:
&quot;Monday&quot;, &quot;Tuesday&quot; etc...

He turns round to see his skanky old wife - played by Bob Todd - hanging
her bloomers up. They're marked, &quot;January&quot;, &quot;February&quot;...

Cat.
--
Jazz-Loving Soul Mate and Tolerable Frog to CCA
&quot;This is what I do darlin'... this is what I do.&quot;
Malcolm Reynolds - Serenity

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#581: Re: [I] Formal wear

Posted on 2006-07-13 22:26:59 by Ailbhe

Graycat &lt;<a href="mailto:rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote
(on Mon, 10 Jul 2006 18:53:42 +0200):
&gt; On Sun, 9 Jul 2006 14:32:02 -0400, &quot;Arthur Hagen&quot;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt; jotted down:
&gt;
&gt; &gt;Graycat &lt;<a href="mailto:rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; At least in Sweden this is all getting slowly defenestrated
&gt; &gt;&gt; - (young) people are now picking the type of formalwear they
&gt; &gt;&gt; like the looks of best for their weddings. So jacquettes at
&gt; &gt;&gt; night, white tie in the morning, etc.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; To me, it seems sensible - if it's your wedding, wear
&gt; &gt;&gt; clothes you like, no matter what the book says.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;Yes, but if you invite guests, you put them in a very difficult position.
&gt;
&gt; Not if you specify what the dresscode is on the invitation.
&gt; Which people tend to do for weddings.

I have never received a wedding invitation with the dress code stated on it.
As far as I can remember, anyway. I do remember having to explicitly tell
people's parents that when I said &quot;all our guests can wear whatever they
like&quot; that that included the parents' children, too, even if they were
teenagers.

A.

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#582: Re: [I] Potential London Meets

Posted on 2006-07-13 22:35:46 by Thomas Zahr

Anastasia posted:

&gt; Aquarion wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; So if we were to say, for example, the Saturday before the
&gt;&gt; Con, at, say, The Green Man in London, then things might
&gt;&gt; start heading in the right direction...
&gt;
&gt; So the 12th? At this &quot;Green Man&quot; place?
&gt;
&gt; Could we get a current reading on people's availability?
&gt;
&gt; As an alternate date, the 16th.

....

I am certain that I'm going to be in Cologne on the 12th as
this is a Saturday, the 16th is a possibility but I can not
at this time guarantee that I'll be in London.

--
Ciao

Thomas =:-)
&lt;out of sig error&gt;

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#583: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 23:22:30 by Julian Hall

On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 19:13:53 +0100, esmi wrote:

&gt; You'd need to be *really*... um... under-confident to want to use rolled
&gt; up football (soccer) socks. Those things are *bulky*!

They itch too... oops.... never mind... move along .. nothing to see he...
*thinks* This is getting worse....

/me bails out
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#584: Re: [I] -I- All things G-rated //was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 23:41:55 by Stacie Hanes

Peter Davies wrote:
&gt; It all started on Tue, 11 Jul 2006 20:33:29 +0000, when Anastasia
&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Lister wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:03:18 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; mcv wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In order to nip this misunderstanding in the bud: string theory
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; is *not* about underwear.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pity, I was looking for an explanation of my underwear drawer.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; You wear string for underwear? :)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; More or less. If I put the lot into the washer together, it would
&gt;&gt; probably emerge as a scarf.

&gt;
&gt; Issue with Strings 2:
&gt; Last year my housemate asked if I could look at some problem with
&gt; her computer while she was away. So I went into her bedroom to sort
&gt; things out, but five minutes later gave up - as the sight of all
&gt; her g-strings lying all over the floor and dangling from every door
&gt; handle was just making me feel sick.

Well, I can't imagine why clean underwear would be all over the floor.

And I can sympathize with not being keen on sitting in a room with someone's
used skivvies all over the floor and everywhere else.

Mine, thank you very much, live in a drawer.

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#585: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-13 23:59:44 by Peter Ellis

Arthur Hagen wrote:
&gt;
&gt; I bring exhibit A: Evolution. I'd think evolution favours just
&gt; enough muscle tissue to carry breasts just big enough to attract
&gt; males. Exceptions will either have less chance of attracting a male,
&gt; or back problems which lowers the chance of survival of the
&gt; offspring, so they'll be just that -- exceptions.

I bring Exhibit B: Evolution. You fundamentally misunderstand the nature
of evolutionary tradeoffs and sexual signals. In general, a sexual signal
(breasts, peacock's tails, stickleback colouration etc.) will become
amplified until the associated costs counterbalance the reproductive
advantage gained from the signalling.

Put simply, you can bet your bottom dollar that *any* sexual signal such as
breast size will have an associated cost such as back problems. The balance
between the benefit and the costs is what governs how large breasts evolve
to be.

You've assumed that evolution would completely eliminate the costs (by
building bigger muscles to carry the breasts). If that were the case, then
over the generations breast size would simply increase further, until such
time as the reproductive cost of the back problems outweighs (pun intended)
the reproductive benefit of bigger breasts.

Evolution is a game you can't win, only fail to lose.

Peter

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#586: Re: [I] -I- All things G-rated //was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 01:27:26 by Kar98

On 2006-07-13 16:41:55 -0500, &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; said:

&gt; And I can sympathize with not being keen on sitting in a room with
&gt; someone's used skivvies all over the floor and everywhere else.
&gt;
&gt; Mine, thank you very much, live in a drawer.

A drawers-drawer, as it were. Possibly in a drawing room?

*kicks undies under bed where they prey upon the dust bunnies*


--
Do you know what the chain of command is here? It's the chain I go get
and beat you with to show you who's in ruttin' command here.

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#587: Re: [I] Formal wear

Posted on 2006-07-14 02:53:49 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:slrnebdb4j.ule.ailbhe&#64;frivolous.ossifrage.net" target="_blank">slrnebdb4j.ule.ailbhe&#64;frivolous.ossifrage.net</a>, Ailbhe at
<a href="mailto:ailbhe&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">ailbhe&#64;lspace.org</a> wrote on 13/07/2006 1:26 PM:

&gt; Graycat &lt;<a href="mailto:rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote
&gt; (on Mon, 10 Jul 2006 18:53:42 +0200):
&gt;&gt; On Sun, 9 Jul 2006 14:32:02 -0400, &quot;Arthur Hagen&quot;
&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt; jotted down:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Graycat &lt;<a href="mailto:rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To me, it seems sensible - if it's your wedding, wear
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; clothes you like, no matter what the book says.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Yes, but if you invite guests, you put them in a very difficult position.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Not if you specify what the dresscode is on the invitation.
&gt;&gt; Which people tend to do for weddings.
&gt;
&gt; I have never received a wedding invitation with the dress code stated on it.

Nor have I. My younger son is getting married in a couple of weeks with a
large, formal wedding, so I asked his fiancée at what level I should dress
and what colours to avoid. I have just returned from a marathon shopping
trip with a dress, shoes and tiny handbag that I like a lot and that fall
within the outlines of her advice (which was basically &quot;wear whatever you
feel comfortable in, anything from an ordinary day dress to full-out evening
dress; the bridesmaids' dresses are aqua&quot;) and still looks fairly formal.

What's more, I've found that even though I can't remember the last time
I wore three-inch heels - or heels of any other height - I can still walk
properly in them; it must be like riding a bicycle. So altogether I'm
feeling rather pleased, even though I have just spent most of a day
shopping, which normally sours the world for me.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#588: Re: [I] Words for clothing // was All things G-rated

Posted on 2006-07-14 03:01:06 by Flesh-eating Dragon

Anastasia wrote:

&gt; And I can sympathize with not being keen on sitting in a room with someone's
&gt; used skivvies all over the floor and everywhere else.

Stacie, skivvies are not underwear. Skivvies are a bit like t-shirts
but with long arms and tighter around the neck.

<a href="http://www.qualitops.com.au/rangestock/Skivvies/DSC00056.jpg" target="_blank"> http://www.qualitops.com.au/rangestock/Skivvies/DSC00056.jpg</a> = skivvy.

If you must be stubborn about the word &quot;thongs&quot;, you could at least
use &quot;skivvies&quot; correctly. It *is* rather cruel of you to misuse both
of these words in public.

Adrian.

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#589: Re: [I] Words for clothing // was All things G-rated

Posted on 2006-07-14 03:06:38 by Gid Holyoake

In article &lt;e96q9u$23pf$<a href="mailto:1&#64;mud.stack.nl" target="_blank">1&#64;mud.stack.nl</a>&gt;, 8'FED generously decided to
share with us..

Snippetry..

&gt; Stacie, skivvies are not underwear. Skivvies are a bit like t-shirts
&gt; but with long arms and tighter around the neck.

Nonsense.. skivvies are menials who do the work for you.. what sort of
English are you all speaking?..

Gid

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#590: Re: [I] Words for clothing // was All things G-rated

Posted on 2006-07-14 03:48:06 by tms

8'FED wrote:
&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;And I can sympathize with not being keen on sitting in a room with someone's
&gt;&gt;used skivvies all over the floor and everywhere else.
&gt;
&gt; Stacie, skivvies are not underwear.

They certainly are. For example, see:

<a href="http://www.quarterdeck.org/Terminology/naval_terminology_lz.htm" target="_blank"> http://www.quarterdeck.org/Terminology/naval_terminology_lz. htm</a>

--
Thomas M. Sommers -- <a href="mailto:tms&#64;nj.net" target="_blank">tms&#64;nj.net</a> -- AB2SB

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#591: Re: [I] Words for clothing // was All things G-rated

Posted on 2006-07-14 04:43:04 by Stacie Hanes

T.M. Sommers wrote:
&gt; 8'FED wrote:
&gt;&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; And I can sympathize with not being keen on sitting in a room
&gt;&gt;&gt; with someone's used skivvies all over the floor and everywhere
&gt;&gt;&gt; else.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Stacie, skivvies are not underwear.
&gt;
&gt; They certainly are. For example, see:
&gt;
&gt; <a href="http://www.quarterdeck.org/Terminology/naval_terminology_lz.htm" target="_blank"> http://www.quarterdeck.org/Terminology/naval_terminology_lz. htm</a>

Thank you. Vindication is nice.

Lest you forget, I am also a hardened veteran of the US armed services.

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#592: Re: [I] Formal wear

Posted on 2006-07-14 05:19:18 by Arthur Hagen

Lesley Weston &lt;<a href="mailto:brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; So
&gt; altogether I'm feeling rather pleased, even though I have just spent
&gt; most of a day shopping, which normally sours the world for me.

My solution to that problem is to always round off the shopping with a trip
to the book store.

Regards,
--
*Art

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#593: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 05:47:39 by Flesh-eating Dragon

Alec Cawley wrote:

&gt; OTOH, since the advent of medicine that works, IMO one of the most
&gt; important driving factors in the evolution of humans today is sexual
&gt; attractiveness (in the broadest sense). Lots of other factors which
&gt; would have weeded out insufficiently athletic women in the past no
&gt; longer operate. And, while breast size/quality is far from the only
&gt; facet of female attractiveness, it is a significant one, particularly in
&gt; Western society. So it would not surprise me if humanity was unknowingly
&gt; selecting for increasingly large breasts, and that women in the west
&gt; today have on average much larger breasts, and hence need for bras,
&gt; than many generations ago. Clothes also contribute: the more layers of
&gt; clothes you are wearing, the bigger the breasts need to be to make a
&gt; positive announcement of femininity.

Alec, I wanted to reply privately (in order to be a little more
explicit on the subject of attractiveness than I would on the group)
but I can't reach you by email.

&lt;&lt;&lt; 550-Connection from 203.31.10.4 rejected
&lt;&lt;&lt; 550-Sending server has no reverse DNS (PTR record)
&lt;&lt;&lt; 550 Contact the ISP responsible for 203.31.10.4
550 5.1.1 &lt;email.address.in.your.headers&gt;... User unknown
&lt;&lt;&lt; 503 valid RCPT command must precede DATA

Adrian.

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#594: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 05:48:17 by telepathic trees

On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 16:12:45 GMT, Lesley Weston wrote:

&gt;But bras are uncomfortable; less so if they fit
&gt;properly, but still they are always less comfortable than going without if
&gt;you are doing nothing but sitting about

Boy, gotta disagree with you there. Even if I'm sitting doing nothing
much I find things are more comfortable when wearing a bra.

&gt; Later today I'm going shopping for new bras - as well as being
&gt;uncomfortable they wear out.

This weekend I'll be going bra shopping. And then I will buy some
chocolate ice cream to cheer myself up. I can buy three shirts for
the amount I spend on one bra.

Grumpy already,
Emily

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#595: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 05:53:45 by Stacie Hanes

Alec Cawley wrote:
&gt; In article &lt;e95dbk$150h$<a href="mailto:1&#64;mud.stack.nl" target="_blank">1&#64;mud.stack.nl</a>&gt;, <a href="mailto:esmi&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">esmi&#64;lspace.org</a> says...
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I used to have a weekend job in a sports shop that sold, amongst
&gt;&gt; other things, jockstraps. You have never seen men squirm so much
&gt;&gt; as when confronted by a female assistant asking &quot;Jockstrap? What
&gt;&gt; size? Small, Medium or Large?&quot;[1].
&gt;
&gt; The thing that startled me most was a long time ago, visiting (as
&gt; was not my habit) a sex shop, hearing an attractive young female
&gt; assistant giving exact instruction on how to put on one of the more
&gt; original condoms on sale there. Since I was 17 and a virgin at the
&gt; time, my knowledge was considerably expanded.

Please clarify the phrase &quot;more original condoms.&quot;

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#596: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 07:06:30 by Stacie Hanes

mcv wrote:
&gt; Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; ..
&gt;&gt; .
&gt;&gt; Somehow, my underwear stock turned into 85% thongs. The 14% more
&gt;&gt; is lace, and the last percentile we'll just call random skivvies
&gt;&gt; (there's a pair of white &quot;boy&quot; briefs with a cartoon frog on the
&gt;&gt; front).
&gt;
&gt; 100 pieces of underwear? Is that related to the shoes thing?

Rrrrright.

I have, for your benefit, conducted an inventory. I do not have 100 pair of
undies in the drawer. There are 56, counting the jockstrap.

..
..
..
...
..
..
..
Turn back now
..
..
..
..
...
..
Of the current stock of 55 (not counting the jockstrap):

45 are thongs, G-strings, or composed entirely of lace; they can be
subdivided into 25 G-string, 10 thong, 10 Other.

10 pairs of comparatively mundane bikini or &lt;wossname&gt; style--the ones that
are basically a stretchy rectangle, like 1950s mens swimwear only smaller?


I don't actually know how good my percentages are.

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#597: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 08:00:51 by Stacie Hanes

The Stainless Steel Cat wrote:
&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:2nocb2l59hcai83r5jaf8vg8thfaupn6vf&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">2nocb2l59hcai83r5jaf8vg8thfaupn6vf&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;,
&gt; Lister &lt;<a href="mailto:fache&#64;SPAMclara.net" target="_blank">fache&#64;SPAMclara.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; [underwear]
&gt;&gt; And shouldn't you have 366 pairs anyway?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; (one of which only exists once every four years)
&gt;
&gt; Which brings to mind a Benny Hill mini-sketch.

This is an experiment in TMI-avoidance; I've posted the post I would have
posted, if I weren't afraid to post it, on my spare blog.

<a href="http://pardusfang.blogspot.com/2006/07/one-of-which-only-exists-once-every.html" target="_blank"> http://pardusfang.blogspot.com/2006/07/one-of-which-only-exi sts-once-every.html</a>

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#598: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 08:50:07 by Flesh-eating Dragon

Anastasia wrote

&gt; I have, for your benefit, conducted an inventory. I do not have 100 pair of
&gt; undies in the drawer. There are 56, counting the jockstrap.
&gt;
&gt; .
&gt; .
&gt; .
&gt; ..
&gt; .
&gt; .
&gt; .
&gt; Turn back now
&gt; .
&gt; .
&gt; .
&gt; .
&gt; ..
&gt; .
&gt; Of the current stock of 55 (not counting the jockstrap):
&gt;
&gt; 45 are thongs, G-strings, or composed entirely of lace; they can be subdivided
&gt; into 25 G-string, 10 thong, 10 Other.
&gt;
&gt; 10 pairs of comparatively mundane bikini or &lt;wossname&gt; style--the ones that
&gt; are basically a stretchy rectangle, like 1950s mens swimwear only smaller?

I appear to have fourteen underpants at present time. Some sort of
photograph will be available if requested, but I've just washed them
so at present they're wet. My favourite has a pattern of what could be
interpreted as green scales.

Got about eighteen pairs of socks. Plus a pair or two of extra thick
ones, but those are not routinely worn.

Adrian.

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#599: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 09:55:22 by Stacie Hanes

8'FED wrote:
&gt; Anastasia wrote
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I have, for your benefit, conducted an inventory. I do not have
&gt;&gt; 100 pair of undies in the drawer. There are 56, counting the
&gt;&gt; jockstrap. .
&gt;&gt; .
&gt;&gt; .
&gt;&gt; ..
&gt;&gt; .
&gt;&gt; .
&gt;&gt; .
&gt;&gt; Turn back now
&gt;&gt; .
&gt;&gt; .
&gt;&gt; .
&gt;&gt; .
&gt;&gt; ..
&gt;&gt; .
&gt;&gt; Of the current stock of 55 (not counting the jockstrap):
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; 45 are thongs, G-strings, or composed entirely of lace; they can
&gt;&gt; be subdivided into 25 G-string, 10 thong, 10 Other.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; 10 pairs of comparatively mundane bikini or &lt;wossname&gt; style--the
&gt;&gt; ones that are basically a stretchy rectangle, like 1950s mens
&gt;&gt; swimwear only smaller?
&gt;
&gt; I appear to have fourteen underpants at present time. Some sort of
&gt; photograph will be available if requested,

Now there's an idea. I'll be right back. [1]

&gt;but I've just washed them
&gt; so at present they're wet. My favourite has a pattern of what could
&gt; be interpreted as green scales.

Now those I want to see. I mean, in an on the clothesline or folded sort of
sense, not in the drop trou and take pictures sense.

Now, after many travails, I have uploaded a picture of my underwear drawer.
I have also made sure that you have to read this far and click two links
before you see the picture--I figure if you do that, you wanted to see it.

[1] <a href="http://pardusfang.blogspot.com/2006/07/httpi30.html" target="_blank">http://pardusfang.blogspot.com/2006/07/httpi30.html</a>

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#600: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 10:22:15 by Orjan Westin

&gt;&gt; Anastasia wrote
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I have, for your benefit, conducted an inventory. I do not have
&gt;&gt;&gt; 100 pair of undies in the drawer. There are 56, counting the
&gt;&gt;&gt; jockstrap. .

I imagine you were one of the very few who asked for a small jockstrap?
Or is it XL, for dressing-up purposes?

Regarding the picture of the drawer of drawers, I have to bring up that
tired old cliche, since it works so well on these occasions: My eyes!
The goggles do nothing!

That's an... interesting selection of colours. I'm only grateful it a
kind of item that you wouldn't wear more than one of at a given time, as
the juxtaposition of bright pink and turquoise was rather painful.

Orjan
--
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
Fiction, Thoughts and Software
<a href="http://www.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://www.cunobaros.com/</a>

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#601: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 10:56:29 by Flesh-eating Dragon

Orjan Westin wrote:

&gt; That's an... interesting selection of colours. I'm only grateful it a kind of
&gt; item that you wouldn't wear more than one of at a given time, as the
&gt; juxtaposition of bright pink and turquoise was rather painful.

The colours made me think of using them as party decorations, instead
of streamers. At which point my brain treacherously said, &quot;Yeah, but
what about party hats?&quot;.

The pale pink ones in the middle make a lovely dark green if you view
the negative.

Adrian.

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#602: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 11:10:56 by Stacie Hanes

Orjan Westin wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Anastasia wrote
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I have, for your benefit, conducted an inventory. I do not have
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 100 pair of undies in the drawer. There are 56, counting the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; jockstrap. .
&gt;
&gt; I imagine you were one of the very few who asked for a small
&gt; jockstrap? Or is it XL, for dressing-up purposes?

&lt;goes, checks&gt;

It's an adult small.

There was a very brief experiment in crossdressing, carried out in a Barnes
&amp; Noble. Being the sort of sort I am, I go for thoroughness. Verdict: I'm
too girl-shaped and high-pitched for it to work.

I'll stop now. If you want the rest of the story, ask me at the con.

&gt; Regarding the picture of the drawer of drawers, I have to bring up
&gt; that tired old cliche, since it works so well on these occasions:
&gt; My eyes! The goggles do nothing!
&gt;
&gt; That's an... interesting selection of colours. I'm only grateful
&gt; it a kind of item that you wouldn't wear more than one of at a
&gt; given time, as the juxtaposition of bright pink and turquoise was
&gt; rather painful.

Well, I like teal. Most of them are black, if it helps you any. I can see
your point about the scarlet ones and the sea-green ones (you're calling
them torquoise) clashing.

But mainly it's black, with strong showings in scarlet (all the reds are
scarlet or crimson, it's the flash that makes that one in the middle look
sort of washed out), and blues/greens. There's one purple, one teal, and a
handful of white. And look, you can even see a bit of the jockstrap band in
the upper left corner between two bits of purple--the lighter purple is a
swimsuit and doesn't count.

But then, my favorite color is ivaivfvoyr naq vagnatvoyr. I have an infinite
number of those.

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#603: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 11:14:25 by Stacie Hanes

8'FED wrote:
&gt; Orjan Westin wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; That's an... interesting selection of colours. I'm only grateful
&gt;&gt; it a kind of item that you wouldn't wear more than one of at a
&gt;&gt; given time, as the juxtaposition of bright pink and turquoise was
&gt;&gt; rather painful.

Sometimes I enjoy dressing all in black right to the sknin, and sometimes I
enjoy dressing all in black except for OH MY GOD WHAT IS THAT YOU'RE WEARING
FOR UNDIES?!?!? in the event that anyone catches an innocent glimpse.[1]


&gt; The colours made me think of using them as party decorations,
&gt; instead of streamers. At which point my brain treacherously said,
&gt; &quot;Yeah, but what about party hats?&quot;.
&gt;
&gt; The pale pink ones in the middle make a lovely dark green if you
&gt; view the negative.

I started laying them all out on the floor, the better to take a picture,
but the new kitten started playing with them.


[1] Look, even I have to reach to get things off the bottom shelf at the
bookstore *occasionally*.

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#604: Re: [I] -I- All things G-rated //was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 11:19:18 by Paul Harman

Lister wrote:
&gt; I was going to, but thought it might be a bit obvious :)


Sometimes I can't stop myself going for the obvious joke. /Someone/ was
bound to do it, it might as well have been me.

At least I didn't actually try and /make/ a relevant joke. &lt;g&gt;

Paul

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#605: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 12:31:22 by Lister

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 02:00:51 -0400, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;The Stainless Steel Cat wrote:
&gt;&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:2nocb2l59hcai83r5jaf8vg8thfaupn6vf&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">2nocb2l59hcai83r5jaf8vg8thfaupn6vf&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;,
&gt;&gt; Lister &lt;<a href="mailto:fache&#64;SPAMclara.net" target="_blank">fache&#64;SPAMclara.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; [underwear]
&gt;&gt;&gt; And shouldn't you have 366 pairs anyway?
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; (one of which only exists once every four years)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Which brings to mind a Benny Hill mini-sketch.
&gt;
&gt;This is an experiment in TMI-avoidance; I've posted the post I would have
&gt;posted, if I weren't afraid to post it, on my spare blog.
&gt;
&gt;<a href="http://pardusfang.blogspot.com/2006/07/one-of-which-only-exists-once-every.html" target="_blank"> http://pardusfang.blogspot.com/2006/07/one-of-which-only-exi sts-once-every.html</a>
&gt;
&gt;


I'm interested to know what you mean by &quot;mint condition&quot;

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#606: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 12:36:31 by Lister

On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 23:53:45 -0400, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Alec Cawley wrote:
&gt;&gt; In article &lt;e95dbk$150h$<a href="mailto:1&#64;mud.stack.nl" target="_blank">1&#64;mud.stack.nl</a>&gt;, <a href="mailto:esmi&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">esmi&#64;lspace.org</a> says...
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I used to have a weekend job in a sports shop that sold, amongst
&gt;&gt;&gt; other things, jockstraps. You have never seen men squirm so much
&gt;&gt;&gt; as when confronted by a female assistant asking &quot;Jockstrap? What
&gt;&gt;&gt; size? Small, Medium or Large?&quot;[1].
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; The thing that startled me most was a long time ago, visiting (as
&gt;&gt; was not my habit) a sex shop, hearing an attractive young female
&gt;&gt; assistant giving exact instruction on how to put on one of the more
&gt;&gt; original condoms on sale there. Since I was 17 and a virgin at the
&gt;&gt; time, my knowledge was considerably expanded.
&gt;
&gt;Please clarify the phrase &quot;more original condoms.&quot;
&gt;


&quot;More of the condoms that were not previously used&quot; :)

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#607: Re: [I] Words for clothing // was All things G-rated

Posted on 2006-07-14 12:47:31 by Julian Hall

On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 22:43:04 -0400, Anastasia wrote:

&gt; Lest you forget, I am also a hardened veteran of the US armed services.

I noticed that on your CV. Veteran? yes. Hardened? Not our soft and
squidgy Anastasia? ;)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#608: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 12:49:40 by Julian Hall

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 02:00:51 -0400, Anastasia wrote:

&gt; <a href="http://pardusfang.blogspot.com/2006/07/one-of-which-only-exists-once-every.html" target="_blank"> http://pardusfang.blogspot.com/2006/07/one-of-which-only-exi sts-once-every.html</a>

/me finds a microsocope ;)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#609: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 12:59:56 by Julian Hall

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 05:14:25 -0400, Anastasia wrote:

&gt; OH MY GOD WHAT IS THAT YOU'RE WEARING
&gt; FOR UNDIES?!?!? in the event that anyone catches an innocent glimpse.[1]

*innocent*?

&gt; [1] Look, even I have to reach to get things off the bottom shelf at the
&gt; bookstore *occasionally*.

They'd still have to be looking, albeit some of us have no choice[1]. I
say again, innocent? ;)

I don't know about party decorations. I was thinking siege weapons (see
Skool thread ;)) however they do look a bit delicate for prolonged
military campaigns ;)

BTW isn't it curious how many people went through the two stage process
required in order to comment? :)

[1] I'm 4'8 standing which by now you'll have gathered I don't do, my
face being allergic to high velocity meetings with the floor ;) Sitting
my head is 3'8 from the floor, my eye level slightly lower. Human
instinct being attracted to movement.. well you get the idea ;) [2]
[2] Yes it IS my excuse and a damn fine one I have to say :))

--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#610: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 13:03:06 by Julian Hall

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 05:10:56 -0400, Anastasia wrote:

&gt; But then, my favorite color is ivaivfvoyr naq vagnatvoyr. I have an infinite
&gt; number of those.

Is it just me that wonders; Coincidence that the word 'voyeur' is
phonetically in your favourite colour twice? ;)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#611: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 13:08:12 by Julian Hall

On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 23:53:45 -0400, Anastasia wrote:

&gt; Please clarify the phrase &quot;more original condoms.&quot;

Possibly he means ribbed or flavoured, or the one with the batte... nm...

;)

--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#612: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 13:38:48 by Arthur Hagen

Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; I have, for your benefit, conducted an inventory. I do not have 100
&gt; pair of undies in the drawer. There are 56, counting the jockstrap.

Jillstrap, you mean? Or is it for medical emergencies for male visitors?

Regards,
--
*Art

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#613: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 13:50:56 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006, Anastasia wrote:

&gt; There was a very brief experiment in crossdressing, carried out in a Barnes
&gt; &amp; Noble. Being the sort of sort I am, I go for thoroughness. Verdict: I'm
&gt; too girl-shaped and high-pitched for it to work.
&gt;
&gt; I'll stop now. If you want the rest of the story, ask me at the con.
&gt;

Guess I'll have to try to remember for afterwards then.

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

A problem that's all in your head is still a problem.
Brain damage is but one form of mind damage.

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#614: Re: [I] Words for clothing // was All things G-rated

Posted on 2006-07-14 13:54:09 by Arthur Hagen

Julian Hall &lt;<a href="mailto:lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk" target="_blank">lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 22:43:04 -0400, Anastasia wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Lest you forget, I am also a hardened veteran of the US armed
&gt;&gt; services.
&gt;
&gt; I noticed that on your CV. Veteran? yes. Hardened? Not our soft
&gt; and squidgy Anastasia? ;)

In my opinion, a &quot;hardened veteran&quot; is one that has seen combat (hardened)
and has been through multiple duties (veteran).

I note that in the US, the term &quot;veteran&quot; appears to describe any retired
soldier, i.e. an emeritus.

Regards,
--
*Art

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#615: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 13:58:32 by Julian Hall

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 07:38:48 -0400, Arthur Hagen wrote:

&gt; Jillstrap, you mean? Or is it for medical emergencies for male visitors?
&gt;
&gt; Regards,

Jack and Jill went up the hill
To do what they didn't oughta
Jill forgot to take the pill
And now they have a daughter

(waddya mean you LOST the car keys?? *does a bunk*)

--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#616: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 14:16:09 by the Tinfoil Hat of Reason

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 03:54:37 +1000, a collection of particles arranged in
such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as mcv, influenced
tha intarweb to propagate the following:

&gt; after I finish Green Mars.

I hope that you don't suffer the embarrasment that I did when asked &quot;You
do realise that green Mars is the _second_ book....?&quot; Once you've
finished 'Blue Mars' and 'The Martians&quot;, there's 'Antarctica', If you
haven't read it already. I enjoyed them all. I think it was 'Antarctica'
that received a rather good review from NewScientist...&lt;/ramble&gt;

C:\&gt;

--
&quot;Where do want to go today?&quot; &quot;I'm thinking <a href="http://gentoo.org" target="_blank">http://gentoo.org</a>&quot;

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#617: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 14:22:32 by Flesh-eating Dragon

Anastasia wrote:

&gt; Now those I want to see. I mean, in an on the clothesline or folded sort of
&gt; sense, not in the drop trou and take pictures sense.

OK, here's what I'm going to do.

I'm going to send Stacie a couple of photographs, and I'm giving her
permission to make those photographs available to others.

They're little works of art.

Adrian.

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#618: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 14:28:41 by the Tinfoil Hat of Reason

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:55:22 +1000, a collection of particles arranged in
such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as Anastasia,
influenced tha intarweb to propagate the following:

&gt; I have also made sure that you have to read this far and click two links
&gt; before you see the picture--I figure if you do that, you wanted to see
&gt; it.

You've only taken 91 pictures with that camera?

C:\&gt;

--
&quot;Where do want to go today?&quot; &quot;I'm thinking <a href="http://gentoo.org" target="_blank">http://gentoo.org</a>&quot;

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#619: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 14:42:34 by esmi

on 13/07/2006 19:20 Alec Cawley said the following:
&lt;snip&gt;
&gt; So it would not surprise me if humanity was unknowingly
&gt; selecting for increasingly large breasts, and that women in the west
&gt; today have on average much larger breasts, and hence need for bras,
&gt; than many generations ago.

There's also nutrition. The average person in the west is taller today
that s/he was a few hundred years ago due to better nutrition in early
life. I wouldn't be at all suprised if diet was also a factor in
eventual breast size - especially in pubescent females.

--
esmi

A Brief Guide to alt.fan.pratchett:
<a href="http://www.blackwidows.co.uk/afp-guide/" target="_blank">http://www.blackwidows.co.uk/afp-guide/</a>

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#620: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 14:51:50 by Julian Hall

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 22:28:41 +1000, the Tinfoil Hat of Reason wrote:

&gt; You've only taken 91 pictures with that camera?
&gt;
&gt; C:\&gt;

Whenever I empty the memory card on my camera it starts again at zero, so
I'm guessing Anastasia's camera is the same.
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#621: Re: [I] AI conversation // was All things Kiltish, was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 15:19:11 by the Tinfoil Hat of Reason

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 22:20:55 +1000, a collection of particles arranged in
such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as 8'FED,
influenced tha intarweb to propagate the following:

&gt; That comment, in all its bizzareness, reminded me of conversations with
&gt; AI bots. So I went and had one. Here's a record of my latest
&gt; conversation with &lt;www.jabberwacky.com&gt;.

Well then, does that mean that I fail the Turing Test?

C:\&gt;

--
&quot;Where do want to go today?&quot; &quot;I'm thinking <a href="http://gentoo.org" target="_blank">http://gentoo.org</a>&quot;

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#622: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 15:21:08 by the Tinfoil Hat of Reason

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:27:07 +1000, a collection of particles arranged in
such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as mcv, influenced
tha intarweb to propagate the following:

&gt; In order to nip this misunderstanding in the bud: string theory is *not*
&gt; about underwear.

I propose then, that we move on to the next, far more complex, more
chaotic 'thread theory'....

C:\&gt;

--
&quot;Where do want to go today?&quot; &quot;I'm thinking <a href="http://gentoo.org" target="_blank">http://gentoo.org</a>&quot;

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#623: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 16:50:17 by raltbos

&quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; Alec Cawley wrote:
&gt; &gt; In article &lt;e95dbk$150h$<a href="mailto:1&#64;mud.stack.nl" target="_blank">1&#64;mud.stack.nl</a>&gt;, <a href="mailto:esmi&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">esmi&#64;lspace.org</a> says...
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; I used to have a weekend job in a sports shop that sold, amongst
&gt; &gt;&gt; other things, jockstraps. You have never seen men squirm so much
&gt; &gt;&gt; as when confronted by a female assistant asking &quot;Jockstrap? What
&gt; &gt;&gt; size? Small, Medium or Large?&quot;[1].
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; The thing that startled me most was a long time ago, visiting (as
&gt; &gt; was not my habit) a sex shop, hearing an attractive young female
&gt; &gt; assistant giving exact instruction on how to put on one of the more
&gt; &gt; original condoms on sale there. Since I was 17 and a virgin at the
&gt; &gt; time, my knowledge was considerably expanded.
&gt;
&gt; Please clarify the phrase &quot;more original condoms.&quot;

The one with the tickler in the shape of a latex spider on the end.

HTH; HANNightmare.

Richard

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#624: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 17:51:09 by mcv

the Tinfoil Hat of Reason &lt;<a href="mailto:ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh" target="_blank">ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 03:54:37 +1000, a collection of particles arranged in
&gt; such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as mcv, influenced
&gt; tha intarweb to propagate the following:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; after I finish Green Mars.
&gt;
&gt; I hope that you don't suffer the embarrasment that I did when asked &quot;You
&gt; do realise that green Mars is the _second_ book....?&quot;

No. Nobody's asked me that yet.

&gt; Once you've
&gt; finished 'Blue Mars' and 'The Martians&quot;, there's 'Antarctica', If you
&gt; haven't read it already. I enjoyed them all. I think it was 'Antarctica'
&gt; that received a rather good review from NewScientist...&lt;/ramble&gt;

I thought (and hoped) Blue Mars was the end.


mcv.

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#625: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 18:06:34 by Kar98

On 2006-07-14 07:51:50 -0500, Julian Hall
&lt;<a href="mailto:lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk" target="_blank">lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk</a>&gt; said:

&gt; On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 22:28:41 +1000, the Tinfoil Hat of Reason wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; You've only taken 91 pictures with that camera?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; C:\&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Whenever I empty the memory card on my camera it starts again at zero, so
&gt; I'm guessing Anastasia's camera is the same.

That would be very confusing indeed if you're trying to organize the
pictures in a useful way.


--
You who are wicked, evil and mean
I'm the nastiest creep you've ever seen!
Come one, come all, put up a fight
I'll pound your butts with Green Lantern's light!

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#626: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 18:49:41 by tms

8'FED wrote:
&gt;
&gt; Alec, I wanted to reply privately (in order to be a little more
&gt; explicit on the subject of attractiveness than I would on the group)
&gt; but I can't reach you by email.
&gt;
&gt; &lt;&lt;&lt; 550-Connection from 203.31.10.4 rejected
&gt; &lt;&lt;&lt; 550-Sending server has no reverse DNS (PTR record)
&gt; &lt;&lt;&lt; 550 Contact the ISP responsible for 203.31.10.4
&gt; 550 5.1.1 &lt;email.address.in.your.headers&gt;... User unknown
&gt; &lt;&lt;&lt; 503 valid RCPT command must precede DATA

You might try again. There might have been a momentary problem
with DNS. At the moment, a reverse lookup works:

-&gt; nslookup 203.31.10.4
....
Name: mx3.netyp.com
Address: 203.31.10.4

--
Thomas M. Sommers -- <a href="mailto:tms&#64;nj.net" target="_blank">tms&#64;nj.net</a> -- AB2SB

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#627: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 19:19:03 by alec

In article &lt;e97423$2a1s$<a href="mailto:1&#64;mud.stack.nl" target="_blank">1&#64;mud.stack.nl</a>&gt;, <a href="mailto:dragon&#64;netyp.com.au" target="_blank">dragon&#64;netyp.com.au</a> says...
&gt; Alec Cawley wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; OTOH, since the advent of medicine that works, IMO one of the most
&gt; &gt; important driving factors in the evolution of humans today is sexual
&gt; &gt; attractiveness (in the broadest sense). Lots of other factors which
&gt; &gt; would have weeded out insufficiently athletic women in the past no
&gt; &gt; longer operate. And, while breast size/quality is far from the only
&gt; &gt; facet of female attractiveness, it is a significant one, particularly in
&gt; &gt; Western society. So it would not surprise me if humanity was unknowingly
&gt; &gt; selecting for increasingly large breasts, and that women in the west
&gt; &gt; today have on average much larger breasts, and hence need for bras,
&gt; &gt; than many generations ago. Clothes also contribute: the more layers of
&gt; &gt; clothes you are wearing, the bigger the breasts need to be to make a
&gt; &gt; positive announcement of femininity.
&gt;
&gt; Alec, I wanted to reply privately (in order to be a little more
&gt; explicit on the subject of attractiveness than I would on the group)
&gt; but I can't reach you by email.
&gt;
&gt; &lt;&lt;&lt; 550-Connection from 203.31.10.4 rejected
&gt; &lt;&lt;&lt; 550-Sending server has no reverse DNS (PTR record)
&gt; &lt;&lt;&lt; 550 Contact the ISP responsible for 203.31.10.4
&gt; 550 5.1.1 &lt;email.address.in.your.headers&gt;... User unknown
&gt; &lt;&lt;&lt; 503 valid RCPT command must precede DATA

It is, I hope, some malfunction: all my From and ReplyTo addresses
should be valid. On a quick test, it works from Gmail. Mail to anything
at aleccawley dot com or to aleccawley at gmail dot com should get
through even if the original address doesn't.

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#628: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 19:19:26 by Julian Hall

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:06:34 +0000, René wrote:

&gt; That would be very confusing indeed if you're trying to organize the
&gt; pictures in a useful way.

Not really since every time I use it I save the pictures in a subfolder of
'Camera' inside year and month folders (if necessary day also :))
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#629: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 19:20:42 by Julian Hall

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 23:21:08 +1000, the Tinfoil Hat of Reason wrote:

&gt; I propose then, that we move on to the next, far more complex, more
&gt; chaotic 'thread theory'....
&gt;
&gt; C:\&gt;

'Is this a cosmic string I see before me?'

'No you daft apeth it's a quantum filament, they're quite different'
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#630: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 19:27:24 by alec

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:b3hjo3x1mr.ln2&#64;news.gkhs.net" target="_blank">b3hjo3x1mr.ln2&#64;news.gkhs.net</a>&gt;, <a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>
says...
&gt; Alec Cawley wrote:
&gt; &gt; In article &lt;e95dbk$150h$<a href="mailto:1&#64;mud.stack.nl" target="_blank">1&#64;mud.stack.nl</a>&gt;, <a href="mailto:esmi&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">esmi&#64;lspace.org</a> says...
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; I used to have a weekend job in a sports shop that sold, amongst
&gt; &gt;&gt; other things, jockstraps. You have never seen men squirm so much
&gt; &gt;&gt; as when confronted by a female assistant asking &quot;Jockstrap? What
&gt; &gt;&gt; size? Small, Medium or Large?&quot;[1].
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; The thing that startled me most was a long time ago, visiting (as
&gt; &gt; was not my habit) a sex shop, hearing an attractive young female
&gt; &gt; assistant giving exact instruction on how to put on one of the more
&gt; &gt; original condoms on sale there. Since I was 17 and a virgin at the
&gt; &gt; time, my knowledge was considerably expanded.
&gt;
&gt; Please clarify the phrase &quot;more original condoms.&quot;

Zoologists often classify insects by the remarkable variety in their
genitalia, including spikes, knobs, corkscrew shapes etc. The designer
of these condoms had obviously been an entomologies in a previos
existence, because there seemed very little in the possible range of
bumps and protrusions that s/he had not tried.

(Are condoms designed by men or women? Or the inside by one and the
outside by the other, with meetings with large numbers of model penises
to reconcile the competing designs? Somewhere, presumably, there are
detailed engineering drawings used to produce the moulds for all these
objects.)

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#631: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 19:27:32 by Kar98

On 2006-07-14 12:19:26 -0500, Julian Hall
&lt;<a href="mailto:lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk" target="_blank">lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk</a>&gt; said:

&gt; On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:06:34 +0000, René wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; That would be very confusing indeed if you're trying to organize the
&gt;&gt; pictures in a useful way.
&gt;
&gt; Not really since every time I use it I save the pictures in a subfolder of
&gt; 'Camera' inside year and month folders (if necessary day also :))

Both Windows XP and Mac OSX do this automatically, but for actually
using those pictures for something other than just storing them on your
hard drive, this is gonna get a pain in the ass if there's three dozen
files all named cheap-ass_camera23.jpeg


--
You who are wicked, evil and mean
I'm the nastiest creep you've ever seen!
Come one, come all, put up a fight
I'll pound your butts with Green Lantern's light!

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#632: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 19:43:10 by carol

mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote:


&gt; Flipflops do seem to be getting back in fashion here, although I really
&gt; prefer sandals.

I gave up flipflops forever, after I managed to scrape most of the skin
off my big toe once while wearing them.

It's hard to describe what happened - the front end of the flipflop got
caught underneath the rest of it and my toe scraped along the tarmac
leaving the skin behind. It hurt. Quite a lot.

--
Carol
&quot;I can't stress this enough. Edible ball bearings. Masterpiece.&quot;
- The Doctor

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#633: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 19:44:14 by Random C

telepathic trees wrote:

&gt;&gt;But bras are uncomfortable; less so if they fit
&gt;&gt;properly, but still they are always less comfortable than going without if
&gt;&gt;you are doing nothing but sitting about
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Boy, gotta disagree with you there. Even if I'm sitting doing nothing
&gt; much I find things are more comfortable when wearing a bra.
&gt;
I was going to say no, completely comfy here so it's probably a matter
of size then I realised that I *am* wearing a bra today.
--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#634: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 19:52:22 by Random C

Orjan Westin wrote:

&gt; That's an... interesting selection of colours.

The same could be said of mine. It's easy to tell which ones I bought -
they are the plain black cotton supermarket multipack ones, varying in
style for different times of the month. I also have a couple of pairs of
ones resembling stretchy lace shorts. They look great on the manequin,
and I tend to save them for occasions when I know they'll be seen, as
they seem to harbour a secret desire to be strings, and will generally
beat a rather uncomfortable retreat.
The ones which Vera has brought back from her shopping trips are a
variety of bright colours with dangling bits and sparkly bits and lacy
bits and generally very minimal. I have asked her not to buy them but I
think she likes breaking people's brains by buying them, and who am I to
take away a pensioner's fun?
--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#635: Re: -I- Corsets, was -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 21:29:09 by graham

Hi there,

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 18:08:04 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

Hi there,

&gt;Whalebone stays were more springy and forgiving than steel ones; corsets had
&gt;varying numbers of stays, and some women removed the stays entirely.

Modern corsets (well, definitely those supplied by a certain
affordable leather producer...!) have coiled spring steel boning which
gives them flexibility and strength, thus avoiding unnecessary
suffering.

(Necessary suffering is, of course, your own business! ;-) )

Cheers,
Graham.

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#636: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 21:33:19 by tms

Alec Cawley wrote:
&gt; In article &lt;e97423$2a1s$<a href="mailto:1&#64;mud.stack.nl" target="_blank">1&#64;mud.stack.nl</a>&gt;, <a href="mailto:dragon&#64;netyp.com.au" target="_blank">dragon&#64;netyp.com.au</a> says...
&gt;&gt;Alec Cawley wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;OTOH, since the advent of medicine that works, IMO one of the most
&gt;&gt;&gt;important driving factors in the evolution of humans today is sexual
&gt;&gt;&gt;attractiveness (in the broadest sense). Lots of other factors which
&gt;&gt;&gt;would have weeded out insufficiently athletic women in the past no
&gt;&gt;&gt;longer operate. And, while breast size/quality is far from the only
&gt;&gt;&gt;facet of female attractiveness, it is a significant one, particularly in
&gt;&gt;&gt;Western society. So it would not surprise me if humanity was unknowingly
&gt;&gt;&gt;selecting for increasingly large breasts, and that women in the west
&gt;&gt;&gt;today have on average much larger breasts, and hence need for bras,
&gt;&gt;&gt;than many generations ago. Clothes also contribute: the more layers of
&gt;&gt;&gt;clothes you are wearing, the bigger the breasts need to be to make a
&gt;&gt;&gt;positive announcement of femininity.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Alec, I wanted to reply privately (in order to be a little more
&gt;&gt;explicit on the subject of attractiveness than I would on the group)
&gt;&gt;but I can't reach you by email.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&lt;&lt;&lt; 550-Connection from 203.31.10.4 rejected
&gt;&gt;&lt;&lt;&lt; 550-Sending server has no reverse DNS (PTR record)
&gt;&gt;&lt;&lt;&lt; 550 Contact the ISP responsible for 203.31.10.4
&gt;&gt;550 5.1.1 &lt;email.address.in.your.headers&gt;... User unknown
&gt;&gt;&lt;&lt;&lt; 503 valid RCPT command must precede DATA
&gt;
&gt; It is, I hope, some malfunction: all my From and ReplyTo addresses
&gt; should be valid. On a quick test, it works from Gmail. Mail to anything
&gt; at aleccawley dot com or to aleccawley at gmail dot com should get
&gt; through even if the original address doesn't.

The problem was not with your address, but with the sender's.
Your mail server could not resolve his address through DNS, and
therefore rejected it.

--
Thomas M. Sommers -- <a href="mailto:tms&#64;nj.net" target="_blank">tms&#64;nj.net</a> -- AB2SB

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#637: Re: -I- Corsets, was -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 21:40:55 by Random C

graham wrote:

&gt; Modern corsets (well, definitely those supplied by a certain
&gt; affordable leather producer...!) have coiled spring steel boning which
&gt; gives them flexibility and strength, thus avoiding unnecessary
&gt; suffering.
&gt;
I use spiral steels rather than flat steels myself, except for around
the lacing. Considering the shape of my back, I'm thinking about
experimenting with putting the lacing in front, next to the busk.

--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#638: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 22:07:29 by Julian Hall

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:44:14 +0000, Random C wrote:

&gt; I was going to say no, completely comfy here so it's probably a matter
&gt; of size then I realised that I *am* wearing a bra today.

Like me going looking for my glasses with my contact lenses in...

Sort of, in a manner of speaking...

Well OK, not.
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#639: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 22:08:49 by Random C

Julian Hall wrote:
&gt; On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:44:14 +0000, Random C wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;I was going to say no, completely comfy here so it's probably a matter
&gt;&gt;of size then I realised that I *am* wearing a bra today.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Like me going looking for my glasses with my contact lenses in...
&gt;
&gt; Sort of, in a manner of speaking...
&gt;
&gt; Well OK, not.
Done that, too. Also pushed non-existent glasses up my nose several
times. And looked for glasses I was wearing.

--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#640: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-14 23:17:15 by the Tinfoil Hat of Reason

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 01:51:09 +1000, a collection of particles arranged in
such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as mcv, influenced
tha intarweb to propagate the following:

&gt; I thought (and hoped) Blue Mars was the end.

The Martians is a series of short stories set on mars, during/after Blue
Mars from memory. I particularly liked the tale describing the scaling of
Olympus Mons - but that's me. Antarctica has nothing to do with Mars, but
- thematically - fits well with The Martian trilogy (+1), and IMHO an
eloquent argument for the better treatment of said region.

C:\&gt;

--
&quot;Where do want to go today?&quot; &quot;I'm thinking <a href="http://gentoo.org" target="_blank">http://gentoo.org</a>&quot;

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#641: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 00:16:07 by the Tinfoil Hat of Reason

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 01:11:07 +1000, a collection of particles arranged in
such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as Graycat,
influenced tha intarweb to propagate the following:

&gt; On 05 Jul 2006 14:06:37 GMT, mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; jotted down:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Graycat &lt;<a href="mailto:rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rosen.elin&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; The size of the cup is different within the cup size depending on the
&gt;&gt;&gt; circumference. So a 38A and a 30D could well have thhe same size cup,
&gt;&gt;&gt; but the woman needing the 30 D would have to wind the strap twice
&gt;&gt;&gt; around her body with the 38A.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;So how can a measuring system mess up the 30/38 part? Sounds to me like
&gt;&gt;that's the easiest bit to determine.
&gt;
&gt; It should be, yes.
&gt;
&gt; Using the calculation stores give customers I end up with a cup that's
&gt; two sizes too small - this can be compensated by increasing the
&gt; circumference, just not very well...
&gt;

So the same guys, (and I mean guys) then went on to specify fuel economy
measurements for cars?

C:\&gt;

--
&quot;Where do want to go today?&quot; &quot;I'm thinking <a href="http://gentoo.org" target="_blank">http://gentoo.org</a>&quot;

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#642: Re: [I] AI conversation // was All things Kiltish, was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 00:49:17 by Arthur Hagen

the Tinfoil Hat of Reason &lt;<a href="mailto:ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh" target="_blank">ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; Well then, does that mean that I fail the Turing Test?

How do you feel about that you fail the Turing Test?

--
*Art

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#643: Re: [I] AI conversation // was All things Kiltish, was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 01:08:29 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 14 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: &quot;Arthur Hagen&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt;

&gt; the Tinfoil Hat of Reason &lt;<a href="mailto:ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh" target="_blank">ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh</a>&gt;
&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Well then, does that mean that I fail the Turing Test?
&gt;
&gt; How do you feel about that you fail the Turing Test?

Why are you asking this?

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#644: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 01:12:19 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 14 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: Random C &lt;<a href="mailto:random&#64;panatropic.net" target="_blank">random&#64;panatropic.net</a>&gt;

&gt; Julian Hall wrote:

&gt;&gt; Like me going looking for my glasses with my contact
&gt;&gt; lenses in...
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Sort of, in a manner of speaking...
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Well OK, not.
&gt; Done that, too. Also pushed non-existent glasses up my nose
&gt; several times. And looked for glasses I was wearing.

Never looked for glasses I'm wearing, because I'm sufficiently short-
sighted that I can't miss the fact I'm wearing my glasses, but for some
reason it doesn't work the other way, and I have frequently tried to prop
up non-existent glasses (and on two occasions poked myself in the eye
doing so...)

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#645: Re: [I] AI conversation // was All things Kiltish, was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 01:13:48 by Brenda

Daibhid Ceanaideach said:

&gt; The time: 14 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
&gt; speaker: &quot;Arthur Hagen&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; the Tinfoil Hat of Reason &lt;<a href="mailto:ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh" target="_blank">ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh</a>&gt;
&gt;&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Well then, does that mean that I fail the Turing Test?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; How do you feel about that you fail the Turing Test?
&gt;
&gt; Why are you asking this?

Is it because are me asking this that you came to me?

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#646: Re: [I] AI conversation // was All things Kiltish, was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 01:25:44 by alec

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:Xns9801178B4CB7daibhid&#64;130.133.1.4" target="_blank">Xns9801178B4CB7daibhid&#64;130.133.1.4</a>&gt;,
<a href="mailto:daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com</a> says...
&gt; The time: 14 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
&gt; speaker: &quot;Arthur Hagen&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt;
&gt;
&gt; &gt; the Tinfoil Hat of Reason &lt;<a href="mailto:ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh" target="_blank">ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh</a>&gt;
&gt; &gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Well then, does that mean that I fail the Turing Test?
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; How do you feel about that you fail the Turing Test?
&gt;
&gt; Why are you asking this?

Does it worry you that I am asking this?

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#647: Re: [I] AI conversation // was All things Kiltish, was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 01:26:36 by the Tinfoil Hat of Reason

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 08:49:17 +1000, a collection of particles arranged in
such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as Arthur Hagen,
influenced tha intarweb to propagate the following:

&gt; the Tinfoil Hat of Reason &lt;<a href="mailto:ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh" target="_blank">ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Well then, does that mean that I fail the Turing Test?
&gt;
&gt; How do you feel about that you fail the Turing Test?
&gt;

I don't know. How shoul I feel about failing the Turing Test?

C:\&gt;

--
&quot;Where do want to go today?&quot; &quot;I'm thinking <a href="http://gentoo.org" target="_blank">http://gentoo.org</a>&quot;

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#648: Re: [I] AI conversation // was All things Kiltish, was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 01:31:33 by Arthur Hagen

Daibhid Ceanaideach &lt;<a href="mailto:daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; The time: 14 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
&gt; speaker: &quot;Arthur Hagen&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; the Tinfoil Hat of Reason &lt;<a href="mailto:ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh" target="_blank">ibvtug-xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh</a>&gt;
&gt;&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Well then, does that mean that I fail the Turing Test?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; How do you feel about that you fail the Turing Test?
&gt;
&gt; Why are you asking this?

Would you prefer I was not asking this?

Regards,
--
*Art

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#649: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 01:39:40 by Flesh-eating Dragon

T.M. Sommers wrote:
&gt; Alec Cawley wrote:
&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:dragon&#64;netyp.com.au" target="_blank">dragon&#64;netyp.com.au</a> says...

&gt;&gt;&gt;Alec, I wanted to reply privately (in order to be a little more
&gt;&gt;&gt;explicit on the subject of attractiveness than I would on the group)
&gt;&gt;&gt;but I can't reach you by email.
[...]
&gt;&gt; It is, I hope, some malfunction: all my From and ReplyTo addresses should be
&gt;&gt; valid. On a quick test, it works from Gmail. Mail to anything at aleccawley
&gt;&gt; dot com or to aleccawley at gmail dot com should get through even if the
&gt;&gt; original address doesn't.

Sent to gmail address, since I hadn't tried that one before.

&gt; The problem was not with your address, but with the sender's. Your mail server
&gt; could not resolve his address through DNS, and therefore rejected it.

Or, it could be an error in his mail server's DNS lookup facility.

Adrian.

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#650: Re: [I] Odd socks // was Business attire

Posted on 2006-07-15 02:07:27 by Sofia

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 22:25:14 +0000, Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:

&gt;&gt; Gosh, my husband didn't do may laundry and put it away for
&gt;&gt; me. Are you implying that it's the woman's place to do such
&gt;&gt; things by default? I'm *very* curious.
&gt;
&gt; Nothing Sofia says implies *anything*; it's almost entirely
&gt; content-free. Realising this is the key to a contented life...


I have a very full and contented life thankyou - and I share most of the
housework 50/50 with hubby. As I said HE does the washing up, I only put
it all away in it's place afterwards. We always do the shopping, the
cooking and cleaning of the place together - and we always travel to
afpmeets together too!


Did that imply anything to you

Sofie

--
Please visit my deviantART page: <a href="http://sofen.deviantart.com/" target="_blank">http://sofen.deviantart.com/</a>

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#651: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 02:07:36 by Julian Hall

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 20:08:49 +0000, Random C wrote:

&gt; Done that, too. Also pushed non-existent glasses up my nose several
&gt; times. And looked for glasses I was wearing.

Only realised what a prat I was when I put my glasses on and found my
eyesight was worse ;)

--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#652: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 05:29:39 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:hp4eb210marckig32h1i2ioe977p8u011i&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">hp4eb210marckig32h1i2ioe977p8u011i&#64;4ax.com</a>, telepathic trees at
<a href="mailto:tigz&#64;cfl.rr.com" target="_blank">tigz&#64;cfl.rr.com</a> wrote on 13/07/2006 8:48 PM:

&gt; On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 16:12:45 GMT, Lesley Weston wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; But bras are uncomfortable; less so if they fit
&gt;&gt; properly, but still they are always less comfortable than going without if
&gt;&gt; you are doing nothing but sitting about
&gt;
&gt; Boy, gotta disagree with you there. Even if I'm sitting doing nothing
&gt; much I find things are more comfortable when wearing a bra.

One of the nice things about life is that everybody is different.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Later today I'm going shopping for new bras - as well as being
&gt;&gt; uncomfortable they wear out.
&gt;
&gt; This weekend I'll be going bra shopping. And then I will buy some
&gt; chocolate ice cream to cheer myself up. I can buy three shirts for
&gt; the amount I spend on one bra.

I found *one* at last. Like several women contributing to this thread, I've
finally had myself fitted properly. It seems that my band size is two sizes
smaller than I thought and my cup size one letter larger than I thought.
Which is nice, except that apparently this makes me into a freak as far as
bra-manufacturers are concerned. I have been assured that there will be more
stocks of the one bra made even partly of cotton in my size at some
unspecified time in the future.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#653: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 05:36:35 by Stacie Hanes

Julian Hall wrote:
&gt; On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 05:14:25 -0400, Anastasia wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; OH MY GOD WHAT IS THAT YOU'RE WEARING
&gt;&gt; FOR UNDIES?!?!? in the event that anyone catches an innocent
&gt;&gt; glimpse.[1]
&gt;
&gt; *innocent*?
&gt;
&gt;&gt; [1] Look, even I have to reach to get things off the bottom shelf
&gt;&gt; at the bookstore *occasionally*.
&gt;
&gt; They'd still have to be looking, albeit some of us have no
&gt; choice[1]. I say again, innocent? ;)

Innocent on *my* side.

&gt; I don't know about party decorations. I was thinking siege weapons
&gt; (see Skool thread ;)) however they do look a bit delicate for
&gt; prolonged military campaigns ;)

Well, some of the sturdier ones would do okay-- that Lycra is some good
stuff.

&gt; BTW isn't it curious how many people went through the two stage
&gt; process required in order to comment? :)

I'm sure I don't know anything about that thing to which you refer.

--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe

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#654: Re: [I] Formal wear

Posted on 2006-07-15 05:39:51 by Lesley Weston

in article e972fm$ba0$<a href="mailto:1&#64;tree.broomstick.com" target="_blank">1&#64;tree.broomstick.com</a>, Arthur Hagen at
<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a> wrote on 13/07/2006 8:19 PM:

&gt; Lesley Weston &lt;<a href="mailto:brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; So
&gt;&gt; altogether I'm feeling rather pleased, even though I have just spent
&gt;&gt; most of a day shopping, which normally sours the world for me.
&gt;
&gt; My solution to that problem is to always round off the shopping with a trip
&gt; to the book store.

I was wearing proper shoes and hose so that I could try on pretty shoes, so
by the time I had found them (they're very pretty) and the rest of it, my
feet were hurting so much that all I wanted was to go home and have a nice
cup of tea, barefoot.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#655: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 05:39:55 by Stacie Hanes

Arthur Hagen wrote:
&gt; Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I have, for your benefit, conducted an inventory. I do not have 100
&gt;&gt; pair of undies in the drawer. There are 56, counting the jockstrap.
&gt;
&gt; Jillstrap, you mean? Or is it for medical emergencies for male
&gt; visitors?

I mean . . . I find I don't know what I mean. I made one very brief, very
sincere attempt at crossdressing. Um . . . *very* sincere, enough that
settling that question would require an equally sincere discussion of
terminology.
--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe

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#656: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 05:42:47 by Stacie Hanes

the Tinfoil Hat of Reason wrote:
&gt; On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:55:22 +1000, a collection of particles
&gt; arranged in such a way as to form a person that we would recognise
&gt; as Anastasia, influenced tha intarweb to propagate the following:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I have also made sure that you have to read this far and click two
&gt;&gt; links before you see the picture--I figure if you do that, you
&gt;&gt; wanted to see it.
&gt;
&gt; You've only taken 91 pictures with that camera?

I've only had it a few days. But since you mention it, this is a combo of
two of my favorite things . . . cameras and underwear.

About a week ago I stumbled into an OfficeMax sale and bought a new 7.2
megapixel Cybershot for $160; sold the 5.0 mp one for $125. The new one is
faster and has a longer battery life, plus the added resolution.

But that's why the number is low.

--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe

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#657: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 05:43:46 by Stacie Hanes

Julian Hall wrote:
&gt; On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 22:28:41 +1000, the Tinfoil Hat of Reason wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; You've only taken 91 pictures with that camera?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; C:\&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Whenever I empty the memory card on my camera it starts again at
&gt; zero, so I'm guessing Anastasia's camera is the same.

No, this time it's because it's a new camera.
--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe

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#658: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 05:47:06 by Stacie Hanes

Lister wrote:
&gt; On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 02:00:51 -0400, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;&gt; <a href="http://pardusfang.blogspot.com/2006/07/one-of-which-only-exists-once-every.html" target="_blank"> http://pardusfang.blogspot.com/2006/07/one-of-which-only-exi sts-once-every.html</a>
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I'm interested to know what you mean by &quot;mint condition&quot;

I haven't worn them, and probably only removed the tags from habit.
--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe

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#659: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 05:56:35 by Stacie Hanes

Richard Bos wrote:
&gt; &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;&gt; Please clarify the phrase &quot;more original condoms.&quot;
&gt;
&gt; The one with the tickler in the shape of a latex spider on the end.
&gt;
&gt; HTH; HANNightmare.

I hate you. &gt;:-0

My depth of feeling about that mental image is worth using one of my daily
quota to &lt;THWAP!&gt; you athwart the earhole with a rabid weasel named Stinky.

No punishment is too dire.

You have turned me into a lesbian.

(I wouldn't get too near some of the male afpers for a while, if I were you.
Just sayin'.)

--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe

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#660: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 05:59:56 by Stacie Hanes

Carol Hague wrote:
&gt; mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Flipflops do seem to be getting back in fashion here, although I
&gt;&gt; really prefer sandals.
&gt;
&gt; I gave up flipflops forever, after I managed to scrape most of the
&gt; skin off my big toe once while wearing them.
&gt;
&gt; It's hard to describe what happened - the front end of the flipflop
&gt; got caught underneath the rest of it and my toe scraped along the
&gt; tarmac leaving the skin behind. It hurt. Quite a lot.

Oh, no, I know exactly how that happened. Your foot didn't come in for the
landing in a nose-up attitude; your foot was pitched too far forward, and
you caught your nosegear on the deck when you touched down.

You crashed your foot, lady.

--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe

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#661: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 06:00:40 by Stacie Hanes

Random C wrote:
&gt; Julian Hall wrote:
&gt;&gt; On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:44:14 +0000, Random C wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I was going to say no, completely comfy here so it's probably a
&gt;&gt;&gt; matter of size then I realised that I *am* wearing a bra today.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Like me going looking for my glasses with my contact lenses in...
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Sort of, in a manner of speaking...
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Well OK, not.
&gt; Done that, too. Also pushed non-existent glasses up my nose several
&gt; times. And looked for glasses I was wearing.

Hell, I've looked for jeans I was wearing.

--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe

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#662: Re: [I] Words for clothing // was All things G-rated

Posted on 2006-07-15 06:07:54 by Stacie Hanes

Arthur Hagen wrote:
&gt; Julian Hall &lt;<a href="mailto:lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk" target="_blank">lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 22:43:04 -0400, Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Lest you forget, I am also a hardened veteran of the US armed
&gt;&gt;&gt; services.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I noticed that on your CV. Veteran? yes. Hardened? Not our soft
&gt;&gt; and squidgy Anastasia? ;)
&gt;
&gt; In my opinion, a &quot;hardened veteran&quot; is one that has seen combat
&gt; (hardened) and has been through multiple duties (veteran).

Under those terms I am neither, although I served during a declared war. I
was making a joke, not a serious claim requiring credibility, as such. I had
four years of shore duty and claim nothing more. Just for the sake of
clarity.

&gt; I note that in the US, the term &quot;veteran&quot; appears to describe any
&gt; retired soldier, i.e. an emeritus.

Well, I threw inebriated Marines out of the enlisted club at closing time a
lot...
--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe

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#663: Re: [I] Formal wear

Posted on 2006-07-15 07:17:16 by Arthur Hagen

Lesley Weston &lt;<a href="mailto:brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; in article e972fm$ba0$<a href="mailto:1&#64;tree.broomstick.com" target="_blank">1&#64;tree.broomstick.com</a>, Arthur Hagen at
&gt; <a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a> wrote on 13/07/2006 8:19 PM:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; My solution to that problem is to always round off the shopping with
&gt;&gt; a trip to the book store.
&gt;
&gt; I was wearing proper shoes and hose so that I could try on pretty
&gt; shoes, so by the time I had found them (they're very pretty) and the
&gt; rest of it, my feet were hurting so much that all I wanted was to go
&gt; home and have a nice cup of tea, barefoot.

Ah. While you /can/ kick off your shoes in the bookstore cafe, and you can
get a cup of tea too, it isn't likely to be nice, and probably served in a
(*shudder*) paper cup.
They do have books, though, which usually invigorates me. :-)

Regards,
--
*Art

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#664: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 07:24:52 by Arthur Hagen

Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; Oh, no, I know exactly how that happened. Your foot didn't come in
&gt; for the landing in a nose-up attitude; your foot was pitched too far
&gt; forward, and you caught your nosegear on the deck when you touched
&gt; down.
&gt;
&gt; You crashed your foot, lady.

*Applause*

So what's the remedy? Meatballs on the tarmac?

Regards,
--
*Art

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#665: Re: [I] AI conversation // was All things Kiltish, was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 08:30:13 by Flesh-eating Dragon

the Tinfoil Hat of Reason wrote:

&gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 22:20:55 +1000, a collection of particles arranged in
&gt; such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as 8'FED,
&gt; influenced tha intarweb to propagate the following:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; That comment, in all its bizzareness, reminded me of conversations with
&gt;&gt; AI bots. So I went and had one. Here's a record of my latest
&gt;&gt; conversation with &lt;www.jabberwacky.com&gt;.
&gt;
&gt; Well then, does that mean that I fail the Turing Test?

When you want to fail, yes. But more interestingly, I just found out
about Jabberwacky's religious views.

ME: Are you evil?
IT: Very evil.
ME: Do you have a plan to take over the world?
IT: No I have far greater aspirations. I'm thinking of the solar system.
[...]
ME: How do you plan to take over the solar system?
IT: I don't have to do it. It was done for me when Christ died and rose.
ME: I think your religion is confused.
IT: Great.

It can be very funny on a good day.

Adrian.

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#666: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 10:04:39 by Stacie Hanes

Arthur Hagen wrote:
&gt; Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Oh, no, I know exactly how that happened. Your foot didn't come in
&gt;&gt; for the landing in a nose-up attitude; your foot was pitched too
&gt;&gt; far forward, and you caught your nosegear on the deck when you
&gt;&gt; touched down.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; You crashed your foot, lady.
&gt;
&gt; *Applause*
&gt;
&gt; So what's the remedy?

More time in the flipflop simulator.

--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe

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#667: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 10:31:58 by Peter Ellis

Anastasia wrote:
&gt;
&gt; I mean . . . I find I don't know what I mean. I made one very brief,
&gt; very sincere attempt at crossdressing. Um . . . *very* sincere,
&gt; enough that settling that question would require an equally sincere
&gt; discussion of terminology.

I'm *always* cross when dressing. Mornings do that to me. Especially when
you can't find your socks.

Peter

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#668: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 10:34:34 by Peter Ellis

Anastasia wrote:
&gt;
&gt; You have turned me into a lesbian.
&gt;
&gt; (I wouldn't get too near some of the male afpers for a while, if I
&gt; were you. Just sayin'.)

Why? Some of us might *like* to be lesbians.

Peter

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#669: Re: -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 10:39:07 by carol

CCA &lt;<a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:


&gt; Kitten pictures are here...
&gt;
&gt; <a href="http://lisa9641.fotopic.net/c1019304.html" target="_blank">http://lisa9641.fotopic.net/c1019304.html</a>

Awww! Is she cute or what? :-)

--
Carol
&quot;I can't stress this enough. Edible ball bearings. Masterpiece.&quot;
- The Doctor

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#670: Re: [I] Formal wear

Posted on 2006-07-15 11:07:57 by Diane L

Arthur Hagen wrote:
&gt; Lesley Weston &lt;<a href="mailto:brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; So
&gt;&gt; altogether I'm feeling rather pleased, even though I have just spent
&gt;&gt; most of a day shopping, which normally sours the world for me.
&gt;
&gt; My solution to that problem is to always round off the shopping with
&gt; a trip to the book store.

I somethings think I'm rather unusual (though probably not on this
newsgroup) in that I dislike shopping for clothes and absolutely
loathe [1] shopping for shoes. Shopping for books, otoh, is one of
life's pleasures. Usually the only way to get me to go on a shopping
trip is to promise me at least half an hour in a bookshop as a reward.

[1] and I'm loath to do the things I loathe.

Diane L.

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#671: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 11:15:59 by Diane L

Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:
&lt;snip&gt;
&gt; Never looked for glasses I'm wearing, because I'm sufficiently short-
&gt; sighted that I can't miss the fact I'm wearing my glasses, but for
&gt; some reason it doesn't work the other way, and I have frequently
&gt; tried to prop up non-existent glasses (and on two occasions poked
&gt; myself in the eye doing so...)

I realised how used I was becoming to wearing mine all the time
(I started wearing them two years ago) when I got in the shower
and didn't work out I still had 'em on until the world went all
misty.

Diane L.

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#672: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 11:43:58 by carol

Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; Carol Hague wrote:

&gt; &gt; It's hard to describe what happened - the front end of the flipflop
&gt; &gt; got caught underneath the rest of it and my toe scraped along the
&gt; &gt; tarmac leaving the skin behind. It hurt. Quite a lot.
&gt;
&gt; Oh, no, I know exactly how that happened. Your foot didn't come in for the
&gt; landing in a nose-up attitude; your foot was pitched too far forward, and
&gt; you caught your nosegear on the deck when you touched down.
&gt;
&gt; You crashed your foot, lady.

Now that sounds all too plausible. I am a decidedly clumsy person.
Which is why I now wear proper shoes, so that if I do it again, I'll at
least retain the skin on my toeses

--
Carol
&quot;I can't stress this enough. Edible ball bearings. Masterpiece.&quot;
- The Doctor

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#673: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 13:38:58 by Julian Hall

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 23:36:35 -0400, Anastasia wrote:

&gt; Innocent on *my* side.

Ah, yes of course. My mistook, I forgot (how?) about your innocent nature
:)

&gt; Well, some of the sturdier ones would do okay-- that Lycra is some good
&gt; stuff.

400lb breaking strain would be favourite... I have my doubts :)

&gt;&gt; BTW isn't it curious how many people went through the two stage process
&gt;&gt; required in order to comment? :)
&gt;
&gt; I'm sure I don't know anything about that thing to which you refer.

Scuse me... phone call...

'Speak up it's a bad line... Vati-what? Vatican? Yes and? He what? You
want me for WHAT job?'

OK I'm back now... headhunters... sheesh ;)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#674: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 13:51:47 by carol

Peter Ellis &lt;<a href="mailto:pjie2&#64;cam.ac.uk" target="_blank">pjie2&#64;cam.ac.uk</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; I'm *always* cross when dressing. Mornings do that to me. Especially when
&gt; you can't find your socks.

What about when dressing at other times of the day - for instance after
having been for a swim? Or does that count as changing rather than
dressing and thus not make you cross? EMWTK :-)

--
Carol
&quot;I can't stress this enough. Edible ball bearings. Masterpiece.&quot;
- The Doctor

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#675: Re: [I] Crossdressing etc // was Skivvies Inventory

Posted on 2006-07-15 13:57:52 by Flesh-eating Dragon

Anastasia wrote:

&gt; I mean . . . I find I don't know what I mean. I made one very brief, very
&gt; sincere attempt at crossdressing. Um . . . *very* sincere, enough that
&gt; settling that question would require an equally sincere discussion of
&gt; terminology.

After you've browsed the full range of body suits and rubber masks and
wigs and so forth, I expect properly thorough crossdressing could be
rather expensive. Settling for mere clothes may be cheaper - but if one
isn't going to do something properly, why bother?

The ultimate would be to develop mindswap technology so that one can
not only swap gender more or less instantly, but swap back again any
time one likes with *no* permanent side-effects other than a few extra
memories. Bodies are, after all, just a sort of inner garment. We (that
is, society) should do this. And then gender swapping should be sold to
the public as an educational experience rather than as a personal
expression.

Alright, so it'll take a few years.

Adrian.
(Thorough, but not necessarily sincere.)

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#676: Re: [I] Crossdressing etc // was Skivvies Inventory

Posted on 2006-07-15 14:25:29 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006, 8'FED wrote:

&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; I mean . . . I find I don't know what I mean. I made one very brief, very
&gt; &gt; sincere attempt at crossdressing. Um . . . *very* sincere, enough that
&gt; &gt; settling that question would require an equally sincere discussion of
&gt; &gt; terminology.
&gt;
&gt; After you've browsed the full range of body suits and rubber masks and
&gt; wigs and so forth, I expect properly thorough crossdressing could be
&gt; rather expensive. Settling for mere clothes may be cheaper - but if one
&gt; isn't going to do something properly, why bother?
&gt;

It could be reasonably considered that the body suits etc are cheating
yourself. For example, the point might be about how you can present
yourself rather than the collection of rubber...

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

Sometimes you gotta fight fire with fire. Most
of the time you just get burnt worse though.

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#677: Re: [I] Crossdressing etc // was Skivvies Inventory

Posted on 2006-07-15 14:36:28 by Flesh-eating Dragon

Philippa Cowderoy wrote:
&gt; 8'FED wrote:

&gt;&gt; After you've browsed the full range of body suits and rubber masks and
&gt;&gt; wigs and so forth, I expect properly thorough crossdressing could be
&gt;&gt; rather expensive. Settling for mere clothes may be cheaper - but if one
&gt;&gt; isn't going to do something properly, why bother?
&gt;
&gt; It could be reasonably considered that the body suits etc are cheating
&gt; yourself. For example, the point might be about how you can present
&gt; yourself rather than the collection of rubber...

But if we're going to list things that could be reasonably considered,
we'll be here all night. :-)

Considering things unreasonably is much more fun.

Adrian.

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#678: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 14:51:03 by Julian Hall

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 23:59:56 -0400, Anastasia wrote:

&gt; You crashed your foot, lady.

Which questions the saying 'any landing you can walk away from is a good
one' :)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#679: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 16:21:07 by Kar98

On 2006-07-14 22:39:55 -0500, &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; said:

&gt; I mean . . . I find I don't know what I mean. I made one very brief,
&gt; very sincere attempt at crossdressing.

Nah, it's not cross-dressing when wimmenz do it :)

--
Dig a moat the length of the Mexican border. Take the dirt, raise the
levees in New Orleans, and put the Florida alligators in the moat.
Are there any other problems you would like for me to solve?

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#680: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 17:00:45 by Kar98

On 2006-07-15 03:04:39 -0500, &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; said:

&gt; Arthur Hagen wrote:
&gt;&gt; Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Oh, no, I know exactly how that happened. Your foot didn't come in
&gt;&gt;&gt; for the landing in a nose-up attitude; your foot was pitched too
&gt;&gt;&gt; far forward, and you caught your nosegear on the deck when you
&gt;&gt;&gt; touched down.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; You crashed your foot, lady.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; *Applause*
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; So what's the remedy?
&gt;
&gt; More time in the flipflop simulator.

And learn to obey the commands of the LSOs.


--
Dig a moat the length of the Mexican border. Take the dirt, raise the
levees in New Orleans, and put the Florida alligators in the moat.
Are there any other problems you would like for me to solve?

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#681: Re: [I] Crossdressing etc // was Skivvies Inventory

Posted on 2006-07-15 17:17:28 by Stacie Hanes

Philippa Cowderoy wrote:
&gt; On Sat, 15 Jul 2006, 8'FED wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I mean . . . I find I don't know what I mean. I made one very
&gt;&gt;&gt; brief, very sincere attempt at crossdressing. Um . . . *very*
&gt;&gt;&gt; sincere, enough that settling that question would require an
&gt;&gt;&gt; equally sincere discussion of terminology.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; After you've browsed the full range of body suits and rubber masks
&gt;&gt; and wigs and so forth, I expect properly thorough crossdressing
&gt;&gt; could be rather expensive. Settling for mere clothes may be
&gt;&gt; cheaper - but if one isn't going to do something properly, why
&gt;&gt; bother?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; It could be reasonably considered that the body suits etc are
&gt; cheating yourself. For example, the point might be about how you
&gt; can present yourself rather than the collection of rubber...

It was silicon

--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe

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#682: Re: -I- All things G-rated //was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 18:21:34 by sphira9343

Anastasia wrote:

&gt; Well, I can't imagine why clean underwear would be all over the floor.

Well, maybe she had a whole pile of underwear and no more room in the
drawer, but she should still have tidied them up and put them somewhere
before asking a friend in to fix a computer.

&gt; And I can sympathize with not being keen on sitting in a room with someone's
&gt; used skivvies all over the floor and everywhere else.

Used or otherwise, so can I. After all, if you're not intimately
involved with someone, then being unexpectedly confronted with their
undies is a bit too much information. Last time I was in a
relationship, I'd make sure things like that were tidied up before
letting my (then) boyfriend in, let alone anyone else.
CCA

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#683: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 18:31:48 by Mary Messall

Anastasia wrote:
&gt; Point is, women did not &quot;do [corsets] to themselves.&quot; At least, not all of
&gt; them. A great majority of men were solidly behind the fashion-that-was, but
&gt; many women also--similar to women who didn't think women were smart enough
&gt; to vote. Yet others quietly refused to go along with it, removing their
&gt; stays or what-have-you. Despite the presence of many women on the pro-corset
&gt; side, it remains a case of sopcietal pressures against the individual woman
&gt; because each woman on the pro-corset side had an entire range male friends
&gt; and family who were probably pro-corset. Some medical doctors advised
&gt; against corsets, but they weren't heeded by most.

What if a small group of women today decided that they should
have as much right to go shirtless in hot weather as their male
friends? Would you describe the reaction they would get as
&quot;societal pressure against the individual woman&quot;? Would it be a
case of men opressing women, women oppressing themselves? Is the
very fact that no one really tries to do this evidence of the
fact that women are opressed today, and too accepting of it?

-Mary

--
The blog I said I'd never write --
<a href="http://viewfromthecorner.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://viewfromthecorner.blogspot.com</a>

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#684: Re: [I] Crossdressing etc // was Skivvies Inventory

Posted on 2006-07-15 18:35:02 by Flesh-eating Dragon

Anastasia wrote:
&gt; Philippa Cowderoy wrote:

&gt;&gt; It could be reasonably considered that the body suits etc are
&gt;&gt; cheating yourself. For example, the point might be about how you
&gt;&gt; can present yourself rather than the collection of rubber...
&gt;
&gt; It was silicon

And operated on a string by a secret assistant seated on the balcony?

Adrian.

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#685: Re: [I] Crossdressing etc // was Skivvies Inventory

Posted on 2006-07-15 20:05:27 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006, Anastasia wrote:

&gt; Philippa Cowderoy wrote:
&gt; &gt; It could be reasonably considered that the body suits etc are
&gt; &gt; cheating yourself. For example, the point might be about how you
&gt; &gt; can present yourself rather than the collection of rubber...
&gt;
&gt; It was silicon
&gt;

Last time round I left mine out 'til I got to H's - it was a bit large for
public wear.

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

The task of the academic is not to scale great
intellectual mountains, but to flatten them.

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#686: Re: [I] Crossdressing etc // was Skivvies Inventory

Posted on 2006-07-15 20:21:30 by jester

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 19:05:27 +0100, Philippa Cowderoy
&lt;<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;Last time round I left mine out 'til I got to H's

You can get arrested for that. 8-)

&gt;it was a bit large for public wear.

Now you're just boasting. Size isn't everything you know.

--
Andy Brown
Around computers it is difficult to find the correct unit of time to
measure progress. Some cathedrals took a century to complete. Can you
imagine the grandeur and scope of a program that would take as long?
-- Epigrams in Programming, ACM SIGPLAN Sept. 1982

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#687: Re: [I] Words for clothing // was All things G-rated

Posted on 2006-07-15 20:26:06 by raltbos

&quot;T.M. Sommers&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:tms&#64;nj.net" target="_blank">tms&#64;nj.net</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; 8'FED wrote:
&gt; &gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;And I can sympathize with not being keen on sitting in a room with someone's
&gt; &gt;&gt;used skivvies all over the floor and everywhere else.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Stacie, skivvies are not underwear.
&gt;
&gt; They certainly are. For example, see:
&gt;
&gt; <a href="http://www.quarterdeck.org/Terminology/naval_terminology_lz.htm" target="_blank"> http://www.quarterdeck.org/Terminology/naval_terminology_lz. htm</a>

Yes, but that's military jargon. In military jargon, &quot;incidental
bystander attritment&quot; could easily be the term for murdering a bunch of
innocent bystanders. Military jargon does not count in the civilised
world.

Richard

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#688: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 20:26:07 by raltbos

esmi &lt;<a href="mailto:esmi&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">esmi&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; on 13/07/2006 19:20 Alec Cawley said the following:
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt; &gt; So it would not surprise me if humanity was unknowingly
&gt; &gt; selecting for increasingly large breasts, and that women in the west
&gt; &gt; today have on average much larger breasts, and hence need for bras,
&gt; &gt; than many generations ago.
&gt;
&gt; There's also nutrition. The average person in the west is taller today
&gt; that s/he was a few hundred years ago due to better nutrition in early
&gt; life. I wouldn't be at all suprised if diet was also a factor in
&gt; eventual breast size - especially in pubescent females.

Evidence in many countries - e.g., the far east, where the latest
generation has been brought up on a more westernised (read: fatty) diet
than their parents and grandparents - does tend to support that
supposition.

Richard

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#689: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 20:26:08 by raltbos

&quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; Richard Bos wrote:
&gt; &gt; &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Please clarify the phrase &quot;more original condoms.&quot;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; The one with the tickler in the shape of a latex spider on the end.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; HTH; HANNightmare.
&gt;
&gt; I hate you. &gt;:-0

You're welcome. We aim to please. I take it this is more than a measly
4/10, then?

&gt; My depth of feeling about that mental image is worth using one of my daily
&gt; quota to &lt;THWAP!&gt; you athwart the earhole with a rabid weasel named Stinky.

Ahhh... poor weasel, not only being thwapped athwart my earhole but also
given the name of a stoat.

&gt; No punishment is too dire.

Possibly, but what has the weasel ever done to deserve such treatment?
Crept into your knickers drawer?

&gt; You have turned me into a lesbian.

Wot, again? Or is this retroactively?

BTW, I'll note that one can use condoms - including novelty condoms - on
a dildo, too, if one is inclined to use them.

&gt; (I wouldn't get too near some of the male afpers for a while, if I were you.
&gt; Just sayin'.)

I'm not worried. I don't scare _that_ easily.

Richard

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#690: Re: [I] Words for clothing // was All things G-rated

Posted on 2006-07-15 20:42:06 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 14 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: &quot;8'FED&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:dragon&#64;netyp.com.au" target="_blank">dragon&#64;netyp.com.au</a>&gt;

&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; And I can sympathize with not being keen on sitting in a
&gt;&gt; room with someone's used skivvies all over the floor and
&gt;&gt; everywhere else.
&gt;
&gt; Stacie, skivvies are not underwear.

Right, skivvies are the people whose job it is to clean the
underwear...

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#691: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 20:59:20 by Lister

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 18:26:08 GMT, <a href="mailto:raltbos&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">raltbos&#64;xs4all.nl</a> (Richard Bos)
wrote:

&gt;
&gt;BTW, I'll note that one can use condoms - including novelty condoms - on
&gt;a dildo, too, if one is inclined to use them.
&gt;

*sings the dildo song*

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#692: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 21:20:04 by Julian Hall

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:15:59 +0100, Diane L wrote:

&gt; I realised how used I was becoming to wearing mine all the time
&gt; (I started wearing them two years ago) when I got in the shower
&gt; and didn't work out I still had 'em on until the world went all
&gt; misty.
&gt;
&gt; Diane L.

Sorry I had a moment of confusion reading your comment Diane. Then I read
the top bit and remembered we're not talking about bras anymore.

Explains my bafflement about how wearing a bra can make the world go misty.

Although....
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#693: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 22:31:30 by carol

Peter Ellis &lt;<a href="mailto:pjie2&#64;cam.ac.uk" target="_blank">pjie2&#64;cam.ac.uk</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;
&gt; Why? Some of us might *like* to be lesbians.

Then you should have arranged to be born on a Greek island.

Some people just have *no* foresight. Furrfu.

--
Carol
&quot;I can't stress this enough. Edible ball bearings. Masterpiece.&quot;
- The Doctor

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#694: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-15 22:31:34 by carol

Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; Random C wrote:

&gt; &gt; Done that, too. Also pushed non-existent glasses up my nose several
&gt; &gt; times. And looked for glasses I was wearing.
&gt;
&gt; Hell, I've looked for jeans I was wearing.

Rob once asked me if I'd seen his hat, whereupon I asked him if he meant
the one in residence on his head at the time. He has not been allowed to
forget this, since I'm usually the absentminded one....
--
Carol
&quot;I can't stress this enough. Edible ball bearings. Masterpiece.&quot;
- The Doctor

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#695: Re: [I] Words for clothing // was All things G-rated

Posted on 2006-07-15 22:35:56 by tms

Richard Bos wrote:
&gt; &quot;T.M. Sommers&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:tms&#64;nj.net" target="_blank">tms&#64;nj.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;8'FED wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;And I can sympathize with not being keen on sitting in a room with someone's
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;used skivvies all over the floor and everywhere else.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Stacie, skivvies are not underwear.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;They certainly are. For example, see:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; <a href="http://www.quarterdeck.org/Terminology/naval_terminology_lz.htm" target="_blank"> http://www.quarterdeck.org/Terminology/naval_terminology_lz. htm</a>
&gt;
&gt; Yes, but that's military jargon. In military jargon, &quot;incidental
&gt; bystander attritment&quot; could easily be the term for murdering a bunch of
&gt; innocent bystanders. Military jargon does not count in the civilised
&gt; world.

It's naval, not military. And it is in use in the general
population. I called 'em skivvies long before I enlisted.
Webster's New World says it means men's underwear. It was even
used as a trademark as far back as 1939 (serial #72045340
registered to Norwich Mills, Inc., of NY).

--
Thomas M. Sommers -- <a href="mailto:tms&#64;nj.net" target="_blank">tms&#64;nj.net</a> -- AB2SB

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#696: Re: [I] Words for clothing // was All things G-rated

Posted on 2006-07-15 22:50:03 by Lister

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 16:35:56 -0400, &quot;T.M. Sommers&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:tms&#64;nj.net" target="_blank">tms&#64;nj.net</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Richard Bos wrote:
&gt;&gt; &quot;T.M. Sommers&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:tms&#64;nj.net" target="_blank">tms&#64;nj.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;8'FED wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;It's naval, not military. And it is in use in the general
&gt;population. I called 'em skivvies long before I enlisted.
&gt;Webster's New World says it means men's underwear. It was even
&gt;used as a trademark as far back as 1939 (serial #72045340
&gt;registered to Norwich Mills, Inc., of NY).


I wouldn't trust Noah Webster as far as I could throw him, TBH

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#697: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-16 01:03:43 by Julian Hall

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 12:51:47 +0100, Carol Hague wrote:

&gt; What about when dressing at other times of the day - for instance after
&gt; having been for a swim? Or does that count as changing rather than
&gt; dressing and thus not make you cross? EMWTK :-)

I'm not so much a cross-dresser as an aggravated one ;)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#698: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-16 02:59:29 by Flesh-eating Dragon

Richard Bos wrote:
&gt; Anastasia wrote:

&gt;&gt; You have turned me into a lesbian.
&gt;
&gt; Wot, again? Or is this retroactively?

Nope. She's saying that you eliminated her bisexualness.

Adrian.

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#699: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-16 03:03:08 by April Goodwin-Smith

&quot;MetaMary&quot; wrote ...
&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt; Point is, women did not &quot;do [corsets] to themselves.&quot; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt; What if a small group of women today decided that they should have as much
&gt; right to go shirtless in hot weather as their male friends? Would you
&gt; describe the reaction they would get as &quot;societal pressure against the
&gt; individual woman&quot;? Would it be a case of men opressing women, women
&gt; oppressing themselves? Is the very fact that no one really tries to do
&gt; this evidence of the fact that women are opressed today, and too accepting
&gt; of it?
&gt;

Erm.

<a href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.cfm?c_id=240&amp;objectid=10334756" target="_blank"> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.cfm?c_id=240&amp;objec tid=10334756</a>
<a href="http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060322/LIVING/603220312/1032" target="_blank"> http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AI D=/20060322/LIVING/603220312/1032</a>
<a href="http://www.sptimes.com/2005/07/04/State/Woman_arrested_for_to.shtml" target="_blank"> http://www.sptimes.com/2005/07/04/State/Woman_arrested_for_t o.shtml</a>
<a href="http://www.007b.com/topfreedom.php" target="_blank">http://www.007b.com/topfreedom.php</a>

Both protests with bare breasts and protests to allow bare breasts
have been going on since I was in my teens[1] - and probably earlier
too; I just wasn't paying attention before then.

Many places still have indecency charges for women who
expose their breasts publicly.

So. Most human behaviour is mediated by the society in which
they live - I've been socialized against baring my breasts, and to
understand that it will be viewed as vulgarness on the same level
as penis exposure.[2]

Is that opression - maybe. But it doesn't feel to me to be on the
same level as not being permitted into certain professions. On
the other hand, I lived through the fainting-away of the older
generation when girls started wearing trousers, and it seemed
pretty silly to me - so I suspect that, to some, the discomfort
about female breast exposure seems as silly.

April.

[1] - I'm fifty now.
[2] - I suspect it is the flobble factor.

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#700: Re: [I] Words for clothing // was All things G-rated

Posted on 2006-07-16 03:03:11 by tms

Lister wrote:
&gt; On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 16:35:56 -0400, &quot;T.M. Sommers&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:tms&#64;nj.net" target="_blank">tms&#64;nj.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;It's naval, not military. And it is in use in the general
&gt;&gt;population. I called 'em skivvies long before I enlisted.
&gt;&gt;Webster's New World says it means men's underwear. It was even
&gt;&gt;used as a trademark as far back as 1939 (serial #72045340
&gt;&gt;registered to Norwich Mills, Inc., of NY).
&gt;
&gt; I wouldn't trust Noah Webster as far as I could throw him, TBH

Don't worry, he was dead long before that particular dictionary
was created.

--
Thomas M. Sommers -- <a href="mailto:tms&#64;nj.net" target="_blank">tms&#64;nj.net</a> -- AB2SB

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#701: Re: [I] AI conversation // was All things Kiltish, was Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-16 04:23:40 by the Tinfoil Hat of Reason

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 16:30:13 +1000, a collection of particles arranged in
such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as 8'FED,
influenced tha intarweb to propagate the following:

&gt; the Tinfoil Hat of Reason wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 22:20:55 +1000, a collection of particles arranged
&gt;&gt; in such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as 8'FED,
&gt;&gt; influenced tha intarweb to propagate the following:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; That comment, in all its bizzareness, reminded me of conversations
&gt;&gt;&gt; with AI bots. So I went and had one. Here's a record of my latest
&gt;&gt;&gt; conversation with &lt;www.jabberwacky.com&gt;.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Well then, does that mean that I fail the Turing Test?
&gt;
&gt; When you want to fail, yes. But more interestingly, I just found out
&gt; about Jabberwacky's religious views.
&gt;
&gt; ME: Are you evil?
&gt; IT: Very evil.
&gt; ME: Do you have a plan to take over the world? IT: No I have far greater
&gt; aspirations. I'm thinking of the solar system. [...] ME: How do you plan
&gt; to take over the solar system? IT: I don't have to do it. It was done
&gt; for me when Christ died and rose. ME: I think your religion is confused.
&gt; IT: Great.
&gt;
&gt; It can be very funny on a good day.
&gt;

For some reason, that made me think of Oscar Wilde and Groucho marx
engaging in a verbal chess game.

C:\&gt;

--
&quot;Where do want to go today?&quot; &quot;I'm thinking <a href="http://gentoo.org" target="_blank">http://gentoo.org</a>&quot;

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#702: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-16 04:52:54 by raymond larsson

In article &lt;gfgug.190615$<a href="mailto:Mn5.185003&#64;pd7tw3no" target="_blank">Mn5.185003&#64;pd7tw3no</a>&gt;, April Goodwin-Smith
says...

&gt; I've been socialized against baring my breasts, and to
&gt; understand that it will be viewed as vulgarness on the same level
&gt; as penis exposure.[2]

[deleted]

&gt; [2] - I suspect it is the flobble factor.

In the case of the penis I suspect it is the non-flobble factor, as a
state of sexual arousal is usually easily apparent in that bit of flesh.
The breasts I have no idea about, I doubt it is just revulsion to fifth
order curves ... .

--
rgl &quot;We led 'em into a field of really angry squash, and they got
bludgeoned to death&quot; ...Digger

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#703: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-16 05:07:34 by Stacie Hanes

MetaMary wrote:
&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt; Point is, women did not &quot;do [corsets] to themselves.&quot; At least,
&gt;&gt; not all of them. A great majority of men were solidly behind the
&gt;&gt; fashion-that-was, but many women also--similar to women who didn't
&gt;&gt; think women were smart enough to vote. Yet others quietly refused
&gt;&gt; to go along with it, removing their stays or what-have-you.
&gt;&gt; Despite the presence of many women on the pro-corset side, it
&gt;&gt; remains a case of sopcietal pressures against the individual woman
&gt;&gt; because each woman on the pro-corset side had an entire range male
&gt;&gt; friends and family who were probably pro-corset. Some medical
&gt;&gt; doctors advised against corsets, but they weren't heeded by most.
&gt;
&gt; What if a small group of women today decided that they should
&gt; have as much right to go shirtless in hot weather as their male
&gt; friends? Would you describe the reaction they would get as
&gt; &quot;societal pressure against the individual woman&quot;? Would it be a
&gt; case of men opressing women, women oppressing themselves? Is the
&gt; very fact that no one really tries to do this evidence of the
&gt; fact that women are opressed today, and too accepting of it?

My honest opinion is yes, it is, but I don't think arguing about it will
lead anywhere good, though. I'm not sure I'd call it the same as faith, but
it will eventually come to faith in certain definitions, and I'm going to
beg off having that discussion after outlining my basic view.

I think April's right, we've been raised to consider women without shirts as
indecent, and men without shirts as acceptable. I wear a shirt, at some
level, because I feel societal pressure to wear a shirt. I'd get arrested if
I went out most places without one, and I'd get disapproving stares, or,
even worse, some would consider it an invitation to do/say things I wouldn't
want because going without a shirt MUST be an invitation--it's the &quot;she was
asking for it&quot; rape defense.

In short (just typoed &quot;in shirt&quot;) I do indeed feel it's a masculine code
that women have internalized.

--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe

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#704: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-16 07:07:30 by Flesh-eating Dragon

Anastasia wrote:

&gt; I think April's right, we've been raised to consider women without shirts as
&gt; indecent, and men without shirts as acceptable.

Only relatively acceptable. Society still considers it extremely rude
for men to go shirtless in most public places, e.g. a city street.

You're right, though: topless men don't incur the same degree of risk
or condemnation that women do.

&gt; I wear a shirt, at some level, because I feel societal pressure to wear a
&gt; shirt. I'd get arrested if I went out most places without one, and I'd get
&gt; disapproving stares, or,

And the other sort of stare, too, of course.

Adrian.

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#705: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-16 09:49:28 by Arthur Hagen

8'FED &lt;<a href="mailto:dragon&#64;netyp.com.au" target="_blank">dragon&#64;netyp.com.au</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I think April's right, we've been raised to consider women without
&gt;&gt; shirts as indecent, and men without shirts as acceptable.
&gt;
&gt; Only relatively acceptable. Society still considers it extremely rude
&gt; for men to go shirtless in most public places, e.g. a city street.
&gt;
&gt; You're right, though: topless men don't incur the same degree of risk
&gt; or condemnation that women do.

However, bottomless men incur a much higher degree of wrath -- they're
likely to get jailed (and in this country, marked as a sex offender for the
rest of their life), while a naked woman is probably going to be asked to
put clothes on.

It has to do with the culture not accepting exposed sexual characteristics,
and in my opinion it has nothing to do with oppressing women; women just
happen to have their peacock feathers on the upper body.

I'd be all for women being allowed to walk around topless if (and only if)
it also meant that men would be allowed to dangle their visible danglables
freely. If not, it would be gender-based oppression of men.

Regards,
--
*Art

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#706: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-16 09:51:08 by Lister

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:37:30 +0930, &quot;8'FED&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:dragon&#64;netyp.com.au" target="_blank">dragon&#64;netyp.com.au</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;Anastasia wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I think April's right, we've been raised to consider women without shirts as
&gt;&gt; indecent, and men without shirts as acceptable.
&gt;
&gt;Only relatively acceptable. Society still considers it extremely rude
&gt;for men to go shirtless in most public places, e.g. a city street.
&gt;


This, of course, depends on which society/country/religion you're
talking about.

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#707: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-16 10:43:55 by news0607

Lister wrote:
&gt; This, of course, depends on which society/country/religion you're
&gt; talking about.

As does the original question.

Michael

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#708: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-16 13:12:29 by Lister

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 10:43:55 +0200, Michael J. Schülke
&lt;<a href="mailto:news0607&#64;mjschuelke.de" target="_blank">news0607&#64;mjschuelke.de</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Lister wrote:
&gt;&gt; This, of course, depends on which society/country/religion you're
&gt;&gt; talking about.
&gt;
&gt;As does the original question.


Indeed

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#709: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-16 16:48:57 by mcv

Ren? &lt;<a href="mailto:Kar98&#64;the-coalition.us" target="_blank">Kar98&#64;the-coalition.us</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; On 2006-07-14 12:19:26 -0500, Julian Hall
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk" target="_blank">lists&#64;removethisbit.kaotic.co.uk</a>&gt; said:
&gt;&gt; On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:06:34 +0000, Ren? wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; That would be very confusing indeed if you're trying to organize the
&gt;&gt;&gt; pictures in a useful way.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Not really since every time I use it I save the pictures in a subfolder of
&gt;&gt; 'Camera' inside year and month folders (if necessary day also :))
&gt;
&gt; Both Windows XP and Mac OSX do this automatically, but for actually
&gt; using those pictures for something other than just storing them on your
&gt; hard drive, this is gonna get a pain in the ass if there's three dozen
&gt; files all named cheap-ass_camera23.jpeg

The trick is using memory cards that are big enough to hold at least a
single day worth of photos. For me, 512 MB is plenty, but it's possible
some people would need more.


mcv.

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#710: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-16 16:52:13 by mcv

Carol Hague &lt;<a href="mailto:carol&#64;wrhpv.com" target="_blank">carol&#64;wrhpv.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; mcv &lt;<a href="mailto:mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl" target="_blank">mcvmcv&#64;xs4all.nl</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Flipflops do seem to be getting back in fashion here, although I really
&gt;&gt; prefer sandals.
&gt;
&gt; I gave up flipflops forever, after I managed to scrape most of the skin
&gt; off my big toe once while wearing them.
&gt;
&gt; It's hard to describe what happened - the front end of the flipflop got
&gt; caught underneath the rest of it and my toe scraped along the tarmac
&gt; leaving the skin behind. It hurt. Quite a lot.

I recently heard that the increasing popularity of flipflops crowds the
emergency rooms at hospitals. Proper sandals are much safer.


mcv.

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#711: Re: [I] Crossdressing etc // was Skivvies Inventory

Posted on 2006-07-16 18:07:32 by Julian Hall

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 02:05:02 +0930, 8'FED wrote:

&gt; And operated on a string by a secret assistant seated on the balcony?
&gt;
&gt; Adrian.

Applications for the post of assistant go where please? ;)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
&quot;I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home&quot;

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#712: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-16 19:33:36 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:o4noo3xri9.ln2&#64;news.gkhs.net" target="_blank">o4noo3xri9.ln2&#64;news.gkhs.net</a>, Anastasia at
<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a> wrote on 15/07/2006 8:07 PM:

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; I wear a shirt, at some
&gt; level, because I feel societal pressure to wear a shirt. I'd get arrested if
&gt; I went out most places without one, and I'd get disapproving stares, or,
&gt; even worse, some would consider it an invitation to do/say things I wouldn't
&gt; want because going without a shirt MUST be an invitation--it's the &quot;she was
&gt; asking for it&quot; rape defense.
&gt;
&gt; In short (just typoed &quot;in shirt&quot;) I do indeed feel it's a masculine code
&gt; that women have internalized.

I agree, but always remembering that, for many women, going without a bra is
uncomfortable. Some women go running in nothing but shorts and a sports bra
and nobody seems to mind, so perhaps we're gradually becoming more rational
about it all.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#713: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-16 19:41:40 by Lesley Weston

in article gfgug.190615$<a href="mailto:Mn5.185003&#64;pd7tw3no" target="_blank">Mn5.185003&#64;pd7tw3no</a>, April Goodwin-Smith at
<a href="mailto:agoodwinsmith&#64;shaw.ca" target="_blank">agoodwinsmith&#64;shaw.ca</a> wrote on 15/07/2006 6:03 PM:

&lt;bare-breasted women, or rather the lack of them&gt;

&gt; So. Most human behaviour is mediated by the society in which
&gt; they live - I've been socialized against baring my breasts, and to
&gt; understand that it will be viewed as vulgarness on the same level
&gt; as penis exposure.[2]
&gt;
&gt; Is that opression - maybe. But it doesn't feel to me to be on the
&gt; same level as not being permitted into certain professions. On
&gt; the other hand, I lived through the fainting-away of the older
&gt; generation when girls started wearing trousers, and it seemed
&gt; pretty silly to me - so I suspect that, to some, the discomfort
&gt; about female breast exposure seems as silly.

When a friend who is now 65 was at University in Winnipeg, she and her
housemates (all girls, of course, anything else would have been unthinkable
then) gave a party. It was summer, so some of the more sophisticated of
their male guests wore shorts. Many of their neighbours were rather less
sophisticated and complained to their landlord that they had had &quot;Men
running about the yard in their underwear&quot;. So the girls had to find
somewhere else to live.

We've come a long way baby, so maybe we'll eventually get rid of all the
nonsense.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#714: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-16 19:45:16 by Lesley Weston

in article e9chfo$2vbc$<a href="mailto:1&#64;mud.stack.nl" target="_blank">1&#64;mud.stack.nl</a>, 8'FED at <a href="mailto:dragon&#64;netyp.com.au" target="_blank">dragon&#64;netyp.com.au</a> wrote on
15/07/2006 10:07 PM:

&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I think April's right, we've been raised to consider women without shirts as
&gt;&gt; indecent, and men without shirts as acceptable.
&gt;
&gt; Only relatively acceptable. Society still considers it extremely rude
&gt; for men to go shirtless in most public places, e.g. a city street.

Some societies, perhaps - presumably the one you live in, anyway. Others
aren't that bothered, though many restaurants and cafes even here in
Lotusland demand that male customers must wear shirts and shoes.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#715: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-16 19:48:25 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 16 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: &quot;Arthur Hagen&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt;

&gt; 8'FED &lt;<a href="mailto:dragon&#64;netyp.com.au" target="_blank">dragon&#64;netyp.com.au</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I think April's right, we've been raised to consider
&gt;&gt;&gt; women without shirts as indecent, and men without shirts
&gt;&gt;&gt; as acceptable.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Only relatively acceptable. Society still considers it
&gt;&gt; extremely rude for men to go shirtless in most public
&gt;&gt; places, e.g. a city street.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; You're right, though: topless men don't incur the same
&gt;&gt; degree of risk or condemnation that women do.
&gt;
&gt; However, bottomless men incur a much higher degree of wrath
&gt; -- they're likely to get jailed (and in this country,
&gt; marked as a sex offender for the rest of their life), while
&gt; a naked woman is probably going to be asked to put clothes
&gt; on.

That's a fair point, IMO.

&gt; It has to do with the culture not accepting exposed sexual
&gt; characteristics, and in my opinion it has nothing to do
&gt; with oppressing women; women just happen to have their
&gt; peacock feathers on the upper body.
&gt;
&gt; I'd be all for women being allowed to walk around topless
&gt; if (and only if) it also meant that men would be allowed to
&gt; dangle their visible danglables freely. If not, it would
&gt; be gender-based oppression of men.

That isn't. Women are considered to have &quot;peacock feathers on
the upper body&quot; purely because we as a society have *decided*
that the female breast is a sexual characteristic, and the
male breast isn't. Much as, not that long ago in a historic
sense, the female leg was seen.

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
&quot;If being stuck in a swamp with Christine Hamilton
is 'reality', pass the mind-altering drugs.&quot;
-Humphrey Lyttelton, &quot;I'm Sorry, I Haven't A Clue&quot;

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#716: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-16 20:08:20 by Eric Jarvis

Anastasia <a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a> wrote in
&lt;<a href="mailto:o4noo3xri9.ln2&#64;news.gkhs.net" target="_blank">o4noo3xri9.ln2&#64;news.gkhs.net</a>&gt;:
&gt; MetaMary wrote:
&gt; &gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt; Point is, women did not &quot;do [corsets] to themselves.&quot; At least,
&gt; &gt;&gt; not all of them. A great majority of men were solidly behind the
&gt; &gt;&gt; fashion-that-was, but many women also--similar to women who didn't
&gt; &gt;&gt; think women were smart enough to vote. Yet others quietly refused
&gt; &gt;&gt; to go along with it, removing their stays or what-have-you.
&gt; &gt;&gt; Despite the presence of many women on the pro-corset side, it
&gt; &gt;&gt; remains a case of sopcietal pressures against the individual woman
&gt; &gt;&gt; because each woman on the pro-corset side had an entire range male
&gt; &gt;&gt; friends and family who were probably pro-corset. Some medical
&gt; &gt;&gt; doctors advised against corsets, but they weren't heeded by most.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; What if a small group of women today decided that they should
&gt; &gt; have as much right to go shirtless in hot weather as their male
&gt; &gt; friends? Would you describe the reaction they would get as
&gt; &gt; &quot;societal pressure against the individual woman&quot;? Would it be a
&gt; &gt; case of men opressing women, women oppressing themselves? Is the
&gt; &gt; very fact that no one really tries to do this evidence of the
&gt; &gt; fact that women are opressed today, and too accepting of it?
&gt;
&gt; My honest opinion is yes, it is, but I don't think arguing about it will
&gt; lead anywhere good, though. I'm not sure I'd call it the same as faith, but
&gt; it will eventually come to faith in certain definitions, and I'm going to
&gt; beg off having that discussion after outlining my basic view.
&gt;
&gt; I think April's right, we've been raised to consider women without shirts as
&gt; indecent, and men without shirts as acceptable. I wear a shirt, at some
&gt; level, because I feel societal pressure to wear a shirt. I'd get arrested if
&gt; I went out most places without one, and I'd get disapproving stares, or,
&gt; even worse, some would consider it an invitation to do/say things I wouldn't
&gt; want because going without a shirt MUST be an invitation--it's the &quot;she was
&gt; asking for it&quot; rape defense.
&gt;
&gt; In short (just typoed &quot;in shirt&quot;) I do indeed feel it's a masculine code
&gt; that women have internalized.
&gt;

I think the major factor is that you and I live in societies that equate
bare breasts with sex, and that have very different attitudes to male and
female sexuality.

So in a sense it is a gender equality issue in which women are conforming
to roles that benefit men. However it's really symptomatic of two deeper
issues and can't really be looked at separately.

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
&quot;live fast, die only if strictly necessary&quot;

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#717: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-16 20:57:23 by Random C

René wrote:
&gt; On 2006-07-14 22:39:55 -0500, &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I mean . . . I find I don't know what I mean. I made one very brief,
&gt;&gt; very sincere attempt at crossdressing.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Nah, it's not cross-dressing when wimmenz do it :)
&gt;
It is if you're trying to pass rather than just dressing up.

--
Random_c
Drive-by postings a speciality

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#718: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-16 21:31:06 by the Tinfoil Hat of Reason

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 13:07:34 +1000, a collection of particles arranged in
such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as Anastasia,
influenced tha intarweb to propagate the following:

&gt; I think April's right, we've been raised to consider women without
&gt; shirts as indecent, and men without shirts as acceptable.

I work in a pretty-much all-male company. On occasion what we do involves
some heavy lifting[0]. On said occasions, it seems very much the
concensus that shirts can be removed. I, for one, feel that this speaks
more of an excess of testosterone than anything else[1]. I don't feel
that removing one's shirt improves the ability of one's body to keep
cool[2] since evaporation seems to work regardless of the surface upon
which it acts. No, I dont remove my shirt[3], since I feel that there are
places and times for such things[4].


[0] Cranes and 5-10 tonne truss sections, 80 kg display modules, 250 kg
roadcases etc.

[1] &quot;We're blokes, there's work to do, so shirts off chaps.&quot;

[2] Unless it's one of dog-damned plastic-printed
insert-your-advertising-stuff-here sweat-pooling monstrosities.

[3] Here in Oz, we are paying the price of technological development in
the northern hemisphere. The hole in the ozone layer reaches as far as
canberra these days and since there is a history of skin cancer in my
family, I don't wish to tempt fate. If [2], then it's my own stupid fault
for wearing said monstrosity.

[4] I am not a prude, It's just that this wonderful species that we are
developed clothing for a reason and that reason is protection.

[5] for no particular reason, <a href="http://loxieandzoot.comicgenesis.com/" target="_blank">http://loxieandzoot.comicgenesis.com/</a> ,cos
nudists can have adventures too.

C:\&gt;

--
&quot;Where do want to go today?&quot; &quot;I'm thinking <a href="http://gentoo.org" target="_blank">http://gentoo.org</a>&quot;

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#719: Re: [I] -I- Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-16 21:34:38 by alec

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:pan.2006.07.17.05.31.06.90029.326&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh" target="_blank">pan.2006.07.17.05.31.06.90029.326&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh</a>&gt;, ibvtug-
<a href="mailto:xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh" target="_blank">xnzcss&#64;bcghfarg.pbz.nh</a> says...
&gt; I work in a pretty-much all-male company. On occasion what we do involves
&gt; some heavy lifting[0]. On said occasions, it seems very much the
&gt; concensus that shirts can be removed. I, for one, feel that this speaks
&gt; more of an excess of testosterone than anything else[1]. I don't feel
&gt; that removing one's shirt improves the ability of one's body to keep
&gt; cool[2] since evaporation seems to work regardless of the surface upon
&gt; which it acts. No, I dont remove my shirt[3], since I feel that there are
&gt; places and times for such things[4].

And, if you are doing serious lifting and you are not wearing a shirt
designed and sized for serious work, you can quite easily write off the
shirt.

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#720: Re: [I] Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-16 21:40:51 by Stacie Hanes

Random C wrote:
&gt; René wrote:
&gt;&gt; On 2006-07-14 22:39:55 -0500, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; said:
&gt;&gt;&gt; I mean . . . I find I don't know what I mean. I made one very
&gt;&gt;&gt; brief, very sincere attempt at crossdressing.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Nah, it's not cross-dressing when wimmenz do it :)
&gt;&gt;
&gt; It is if you're trying to pass rather than just dressing up.

Exactly. I'm not taling about wearing a man's dress shirt that hits at
mid-thigh, unbuttoned to the navel with a necktie barely holding it closed.

I'm talking about short, nearly crewcut hair, men's jeans, two or three Ace
(elastic rolled) bandages around the breasts, a jock and something to stuff
it with. Learning to give off male body language, if necessary, although my
vibes are significantly masculine to begin with. Using masculine
vocabulary--won't get into it, but for example, men and women order from
menus differently (often).



--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe

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#721: [I] Cameras, was Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-16 21:54:26 by the Tinfoil Hat of Reason

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 13:42:47 +1000, a collection of particles arranged in
such a way as to form a person that we would recognise as Anastasia,
influenced tha intarweb to propagate the following:

&gt; I've only had it a few days. But since you mention it, this is a combo
&gt; of two of my favorite things . . . cameras and underwear.

Brain? spooling ... searching for suitable response ... context engine
overheating ... 67f';.pokom[fodor] ... no suitable context found.


&gt; About a week ago I stumbled into an OfficeMax sale and bought a new 7.2
&gt; megapixel Cybershot for $160; sold the 5.0 mp one for $125. The new one
&gt; is faster and has a longer battery life, plus the added resolution.

So how do you find it in terms of usability? My SO is making 'I want a new
camera' noises, so you opinions are quite relevant.


&gt; But that's why the number is low.

I must not post throwaway lines^W^W^W^Wadmit that my attempt to say
something unexpected has reaped unexpected results [climbs back under his
rock]

C:\&gt;

--
&quot;Where do want to go today?&quot; &quot;I'm thinking <a href="http://gentoo.org" target="_blank">http://gentoo.org</a>&quot;

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#722: Re: [I] Cameras, was Skivvies Inventory, was Re: Bra measurement and fitting

Posted on 2006-07-16 22:58:23 by Stacie Hanes

the Tinfoil Hat of Reason wrote:
&gt; On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 13:42:47 +1000, a collection of particles
&gt; arranged in such a way as to form a person that we would recognise
&gt; as Anastasia, influenced tha intarweb to propagate the followi