Bookmarks

Yahoo Gmail Google Facebook Delicious Twitter Reddit Stumpleupon Myspace Digg

Search queries

why did Scabbers bite goyle, fuldataler mineralwasser, bikemate fahrradcomputer t52434 anleitung, frank zappa iq 172 liam gallagher 164, "heartbroke kid" "previous episode references", bikemate t52434 anleitung, marietta edgecombe cop out, kaufland autobatterie, nasi goreng in dosen kaufen, micromaxx mm 3544 universalfernbedienung

Links

XODOX
Impressum

#1: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-27 20:03:32 by morgothscurse2002

It is once again time to update the official AFT/RABT list of
titles. Not only have a few titles been modified, but we have several
new titles to distribute as well. The previous titles and their
bearers were:

God: Conrad Dunkerson [Conrad simultaneously bore the title Wise
Sage.]
Devil: Michael O'Neill
Queen: Jette Golde
Barbarian King: Ojevind Lang
Steward: Steuard Jensen
Captain of the Guards: Russ
Valiant Warrior: Pradera
Warrior Princess: Ermanna
Court Scribe: Meneldil
Fool [Jester]: Donald Shepherd
Damsel-in-Distress: Joy
Lady of the Golden Words: Henriette
Village Idiot: D.G. Porter


Conrad Dunkerson retains his title as the GOD of the Tolkien
newsgroups, but it has recently occurred to me that the title of Wise
Sage is redundant since, by definition, a God should be wise. The
title of WISE SAGE is therefore transferred to the wisest of the many
wise sages in AFT/RABT: Troels Forchhammer. Congratulations, Troels.
:-)

There were some doubts about whether Michael O'Neill still
qualified as the Devil of AFT/RABT, but that issue was recently
settled when O'Neill dared to praise Michael Martinez and thereby
proved that he is still evil to the core. :-) Michael O'Neill
therefore retains his title of DEVIL.

Jette Golde has been dethroned as the QUEEN of AFT/RABT by Belba
Grubb From Stock. Congratulations, Barb! All shall love you or
despair or both! As our new queen, your first duty is to determine
the fate of your deposed rival. May I suggest locking her in a
dungeon with only a copy of the movie "Braveheart" for entertainment?
;-)

It was a mighty duel in strange Scandinavian tongues, but
ultimately Ojevind Lang prevailed over his arch-rival Raven to retain
his title of BARBARIAN KING. Congratulations, Ojevind! (I should
advise you to be vigilant, however, as I do not doubt that even now
Raven is sharpening his command of Scandinavian languages as well as
his axes with the intent of seizing your crown.)

The fate of our Steward is somewhat problematic. On one hand,
Steuard Jensen deserves nothing but the highest praise for his work in
maintaining the FAQ as well as publishing a few brilliant essays and
answering the questions of the newbies. Well done, Steuard!

< pause to allow a mighty crescendo of applause and cheering to
diminish >

On the other hand, as Steuard himself has admitted, he has
effectively abandoned AFT to off-topic political posts in favor of the
more reserved RABT. Bad Steward!

< SPANK >

In consideration of the extenuating circumstances (i.e. his
academic work and the fact that we can't find anybody else to do the
job for free), it has been decided to forgive Steuard and allow him to
retain his title of STEWARD. Congratulations, Steuard! :-)

Pradera has abandoned the Tolkien newsgroups. He is stripped of
his title and a curse is placed upon him. Henceforth, he shall suffer
from an irresistible compulsion to collect The California Raisins
memorabilia until the end of his days. He will even feel compelled to
memorize and hum the song "I Heard It on the Grapevine."
The title of VALIANT WARRIOR now passes to Tar-Elenion.
Congratulation, Tar-Elenion! :-)

Our WARRIOR PRINCESS Ermanna rarely posts to these forums anymore
(perhaps she is preoccupied with college?) and she is in any case a
generous and noble lady with a surplus of titles. I am sure that she
will not mind if the title of WARRIOR PRINCESS is transferred to
Shanahan. Congratulations, Ciaran. :-)

Russ has been absent from the Tolkien newsgroups far too
frequently and for far too much time. He is stripped of his title,
demoted to the rank of MAN-AT-ARMS and sentenced to be flogged for his
insolence. The title CAPTAIN OF THE GUARDS now passes to Raven.
Congratulations, Raven! :-) As a reward for your steady
participation and intriguing posts of the past year, you may choose
how many lashes Russ shall receive.

Donald Shepherd has abandoned the Tolkien newsgroups. He is
stripped of his title and a curse is placed upon him. Henceforth, he
shall never again be able to pass a pile of dirty dishes without
bursting into song:

Chip the glasses and crack the plates!
Blunt the knives and bend the forks!
That's what Bilbo Baggins hates--
Smash the bottles and burn the corks!

Cut the cloth and tread on the fat!
Pour the milk on the pantry floor!
Leaves the bones on the bedroom mat!
Splash the wine on every door!

Dump the crocks in a boiling bowl;
Pound them up with a thumping pole;
And when you've finished, if any are whole
Send them down the hall to roll!

That's what Bilbo Baggins hates!
So, carefully! carefully with the plates!

The title of FOOL is now bestowed upon the Flame of the West.
Congratulations, Solinas! ; -)

The miserable wretch known as Meneldil/TT Arvind has committed
the unpardonable sin of failing to post the Top 10 lists. He is
stripped of his title and a curse is placed upon him. Henceforth, he
shall be tormented by an irresistible urge to study obscure ancient
Polynesian languages.
The title of COURT SCRIBE now passes to Christopher Kreuzer.
Congratulations, Christopher! You should take a lesson from the fate
of our last scribe and resume working on your History of the Tolkien
Newsgroups. ;-) [1]

The title of DAMSEL-IN-DISTRESS is temporarily retired because
Joy has abandoned us to a Joy-less existence and also because--as
anyone who dissed her beloved Faramir discovered--she has an
impressive set of claws and fangs. We have a number of fair damsels
in the Tolkien newsgroups now, but none who truly merit the title and
it is therefore retired until further notice.

Henriette retains her title LADY OF THE GOLDEN WORDS.
Congratulations, Henriette! :-)

The title of VILLAGE IDIOT passes from D.G. Porter to Morgil.
Congratulations, Morgil! Your mastery of the concept of idiocy is an
inspiration to idiots everywhere on the Usenet. ;-)

When I originally began bestowing titles, I conferred the title
of RESIDENT GADFLY upon Russ because he was so annoying. That title
then passed to David Sulger until he abandoned the Tolkien newsgroups.
(Incidentally, a curse is also placed upon David Sulger. Henceforth,
he will suffer from an irresistible compulsion to translate Russian
limericks into Gaelic.) There are still several annoying residents
here, of course, but I do not now feel that the term gadfly can truly
be considered to lie within the realm of fantasy and accordingly I
have discarded the title. The only medieval equivalent which I could
think of was "knave" and I don't think that quite describes the role.
If anybody else has a better suggestion, please let me know as I wish
to assign the title to R. Dan Henry. :-)

I also wish to assign a title to Larry Swain, but I could not
think of the medieval term for a linguist. I considered the term
"cleric" but that just seemed too quasi-religious. Suggestions would
be appreciated. :-)

We also have a number of new titles to bestow:

The title of MASTER OF RITES AND CEREMONIES is hereby conferred
upon Stan Brown. If you want to know anything about etiquette in the
Tolkien newsgroups, just ask Stan.

Count Menelvagor is hereby appointed the official SCOURGE of
AFT/RABT. It is his duty to administer the punishments decreed by the
authorized individuals. [2] (Fortunately, Balrogs always have an
ample supply of whips, chains and other fun toys. :) His first task
is to flog Russ. We trust that he will attend to this task with all
due speed.

No fantasy series is complete without a MYSTIC. Fortunately,
AFT/RABT also has its own mystic in the person of Hashemon Urtasman.
Congratulations, Hashemon! :-)

The late and irreplaceable Softrat has been posthumously awarded
the title of the official OGRE of AFT/RABT. I am sure that he would
have been pleased or, at the least, would have had a wittily sarcastic
comment. You will always be missed, Softie! :-(

In the past, I have refrained from bestowing a title on myself
since it did not seem appropriate, but it has recently occurred to me
that I am an arrogant, elitist snob and therefore have not only the
right, but indeed the obligation to confer honors upon myself. In
that spirit, Morgoth's Curse is henceforth the official SEER of
AFT/RABT. If you want to know what the future will be, just ask me.
(Whether I choose to answer is, of course, a whole different issue.)



[1] In all seriousness, Christopher, how do you feel about the idea
of taking over the responsibility for the Top Ten statistics? I
understand that you are busy with the COTW discussions, of course, and
do not wish to add to your burdens. It should not be unduly
time-consuming with the right program, but I could be wrong.

[2] At this time only three people are authorized to order
punishments: Conrad Dunkerson, Steuard Jensen and Morgoth's Curse.
Justice has always been the prerogative of gods and stewards, of
course, and Morgoth's Curse is also entitled to decree punishments
since he is indisputably the best authority on what constitutes
Tolkien fandom.



Morgoth's Curse

Report this message

#2: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-27 21:46:26 by onq

Morgoth's Curse wrote:
>
> It is once again time to update
> the official AFT/RABT list of titles.

<snip>

> There were some doubts about whether Michael O'Neill still
> qualified as the Devil of AFT/RABT, but that issue was recently
> settled when O'Neill dared to praise Michael Martinez and thereby
> proved that he is still evil to the core. :-) Michael O'Neill
> therefore retains his title of DEVIL.

<snip>

It seems you ungjrateful fjeudal fjuckheads have forgotten to bestow any
title on him who is not to be named - oh, I see. Yes, it DOES sort of
defeat the purpose.

Well, then, carry on.

<continues to sharpen teeth...>

M.

Report this message

#3: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-27 21:47:10 by TT Arvind

Wes =F0u Morgoth's Curse hal!
> [1] In all seriousness, Christopher, how do you feel about the idea
> of taking over the responsibility for the Top Ten statistics? I
> understand that you are busy with the COTW discussions, of course, and
> do not wish to add to your burdens. It should not be unduly
> time-consuming with the right program, but I could be wrong.

I stopped posting them largely because (a) there was not much interest=20
in them any longer in this newsgroup (b) I got sick of the political=20
flamefests heading the statistics (c) Google provides the statistics=20
for anyone who cares to access its website. If I am wrong about (a) I=20
will be happy to start posting them again, but I doubt I am given that=20
yours is the first comment on it in the eighteen months or so since I=20
stopped posting them.

--=20
Les grandes personnes sont d=E9cid=E9ment bien bizarres, se dit le petit=20
prince.

Report this message

#4: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-27 22:00:10 by Morgil

Morgoth's Curse kirjoitti:

> The title of VILLAGE IDIOT passes from D.G. Porter to Morgil.
> Congratulations, Morgil! Your mastery of the concept of idiocy is an
> inspiration to idiots everywhere on the Usenet. ;-)

I would gladly play the Village Idiot in your little fantasies,
if it only would stop you from digging up and restarting already
forgotten flame-threads.

Morgil

Report this message

#5: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-27 23:07:27 by Troels Forchhammer

In message &lt;news:<a href="mailto:fpr2a25ma65bn973akuu5kirid4dfn8h4d&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">fpr2a25ma65bn973akuu5kirid4dfn8h4d&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;
Morgoth's Curse &lt;<a href="mailto:morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com" target="_blank">morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com</a>&gt; enriched us
with:
&gt;

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; I also wish to assign a title to Larry Swain, but I could not
&gt; think of the medieval term for a linguist.
[...]
&gt; Suggestions would be appreciated. :-)

Alderman -- if necessary 'Alderman of Words'

(More comments to follow at another time)

--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is &lt;t.forch(a)email.dk&gt;

To make a name for learning
when other roads are barred,
take something very easy
and make it very hard.
- Piet Hein, /Wide Road/

Report this message

#6: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-27 23:07:27 by Count Menelvagor

Morgoth's Curse wrote:

&gt; Count Menelvagor is hereby appointed the official SCOURGE of
&gt; AFT/RABT. It is his duty to administer the punishments decreed by the
&gt; authorized individuals. [2] (Fortunately, Balrogs always have an
&gt; ample supply of whips, chains and other fun toys. :) His first task
&gt; is to flog Russ. We trust that he will attend to this task with all
&gt; due speed.

we are pleased to accept this title, for the idea of inflicting
punishments amuses us.

such punishments will be determined by us, although we will take care
to invoke the names of said authorised individuals *at first*, before
our coup plans come to fruition.

(i feel plural.)

Report this message

#7: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-28 01:58:00 by bredband.net

&quot;Morgoth's Curse&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com" target="_blank">morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com</a>&gt; skrev i meddelandet
news:<a href="mailto:fpr2a25ma65bn973akuu5kirid4dfn8h4d&#64;4ax.com..." target="_blank">fpr2a25ma65bn973akuu5kirid4dfn8h4d&#64;4ax.com...</a>

&gt; It is once again time to update the official AFT/RABT list of
&gt; titles. Not only have a few titles been modified, but we have several
&gt; new titles to distribute as well. The previous titles and their
&gt; bearers were:

[snip]

&gt; When I originally began bestowing titles, I conferred the title
&gt; of RESIDENT GADFLY upon Russ because he was so annoying. That title
&gt; then passed to David Sulger until he abandoned the Tolkien newsgroups.
&gt; (Incidentally, a curse is also placed upon David Sulger. Henceforth,
&gt; he will suffer from an irresistible compulsion to translate Russian
&gt; limericks into Gaelic.) There are still several annoying residents
&gt; here, of course, but I do not now feel that the term gadfly can truly
&gt; be considered to lie within the realm of fantasy and accordingly I
&gt; have discarded the title. The only medieval equivalent which I could
&gt; think of was &quot;knave&quot; and I don't think that quite describes the role.
&gt; If anybody else has a better suggestion, please let me know as I wish
&gt; to assign the title to R. Dan Henry. :-)

How about ruffian? Or footpad? Or hedge-knight? Ruffian isn't bad, I think.

&gt; I also wish to assign a title to Larry Swain, but I could not
&gt; think of the medieval term for a linguist. I considered the term
&gt; &quot;cleric&quot; but that just seemed too quasi-religious. Suggestions would
&gt; be appreciated. :-)

Speech-master? Or, with a learned phrase, magister linguorum?

&gt; We also have a number of new titles to bestow:
&gt;
&gt; The title of MASTER OF RITES AND CEREMONIES is hereby conferred
&gt; upon Stan Brown. If you want to know anything about etiquette in the
&gt; Tolkien newsgroups, just ask Stan.

Yes, indeed. In fact, you don't even have to ask him.

[snip]

&gt; The late and irreplaceable Softrat has been posthumously awarded
&gt; the title of the official OGRE of AFT/RABT. I am sure that he would
&gt; have been pleased or, at the least, would have had a wittily sarcastic
&gt; comment. You will always be missed, Softie! :-(

Amen. Bless you, George.

Öjevind

Report this message

#8: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-28 01:59:27 by bredband.net

&quot;TT Arvind&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:ttarvind&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">ttarvind&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; skrev i meddelandet
news:<a href="mailto:MPG.1f0b9b9bb949eeae989cf5&#64;news.individual.net..." target="_blank">MPG.1f0b9b9bb949eeae989cf5&#64;news.individual.net...</a>
&gt;Wes ðu Morgoth's Curse hal!
&gt;&gt; [1] In all seriousness, Christopher, how do you feel about the idea
&gt;&gt; of taking over the responsibility for the Top Ten statistics? I
&gt;&gt; understand that you are busy with the COTW discussions, of course, and
&gt;&gt; do not wish to add to your burdens. It should not be unduly
&gt;&gt; time-consuming with the right program, but I could be wrong.

&gt;I stopped posting them largely because (a) there was not much interest
in them any longer in this newsgroup (b) I got sick of the political
flamefests heading the statistics (c) Google provides the statistics
for anyone who cares to access its website. If I am wrong about (a) I
will be happy to start posting them again, but I doubt I am given that
yours is the first comment on it in the eighteen months or so since I
stopped posting them.

I'd like to see them again.

Öjevind

Report this message

#9: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-28 02:27:56 by BaJoRi

&quot;Öjevind Lång&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:bredband.net&#64;ojevind.lang" target="_blank">bredband.net&#64;ojevind.lang</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:4gdv30F1mgrf7U1&#64;individual.net..." target="_blank">4gdv30F1mgrf7U1&#64;individual.net...</a>
&gt; &quot;TT Arvind&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:ttarvind&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">ttarvind&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; skrev i meddelandet
&gt; news:<a href="mailto:MPG.1f0b9b9bb949eeae989cf5&#64;news.individual.net..." target="_blank">MPG.1f0b9b9bb949eeae989cf5&#64;news.individual.net...</a>
&gt;&gt;Wes ðu Morgoth's Curse hal!
&gt;&gt;&gt; [1] In all seriousness, Christopher, how do you feel about the idea
&gt;&gt;&gt; of taking over the responsibility for the Top Ten statistics? I
&gt;&gt;&gt; understand that you are busy with the COTW discussions, of course, and
&gt;&gt;&gt; do not wish to add to your burdens. It should not be unduly
&gt;&gt;&gt; time-consuming with the right program, but I could be wrong.
&gt;
&gt;&gt;I stopped posting them largely because (a) there was not much interest
&gt; in them any longer in this newsgroup (b) I got sick of the political
&gt; flamefests heading the statistics (c) Google provides the statistics
&gt; for anyone who cares to access its website. If I am wrong about (a) I
&gt; will be happy to start posting them again, but I doubt I am given that
&gt; yours is the first comment on it in the eighteen months or so since I
&gt; stopped posting them.


I very rarely, if ever, responded on those threads, but I did learn a great
deal. There are many people on the site who appreciated them, even if it was
never outwardly stated.

Report this message

#10: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-28 02:28:25 by BaJoRi

&quot;Morgil&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:morestelx&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">morestelx&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:c7gog.10390$<a href="mailto:fl3.1912&#64;reader1.news.jippii.net..." target="_blank">fl3.1912&#64;reader1.news.jippii.net...</a>
&gt; Morgoth's Curse kirjoitti:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; The title of VILLAGE IDIOT passes from D.G. Porter to Morgil.
&gt;&gt; Congratulations, Morgil! Your mastery of the concept of idiocy is an
&gt;&gt; inspiration to idiots everywhere on the Usenet. ;-)
&gt;
&gt; I would gladly play the Village Idiot in your little fantasies,
&gt; if it only would stop you from digging up and restarting already
&gt; forgotten flame-threads.
&gt;
&gt; Morgil

The funny thing is that it isn't play

Report this message

#11: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-28 03:02:44 by Laurie Forbes

&quot;Count Menelvagor&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:Menelvagor&#64;mailandnews.com" target="_blank">Menelvagor&#64;mailandnews.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1151443908.092572.281450&#64;b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1151443908.092572.281450&#64;b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;
&gt; Morgoth's Curse wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Count Menelvagor is hereby appointed the official SCOURGE of
&gt; &gt; AFT/RABT. It is his duty to administer the punishments decreed by the
&gt; &gt; authorized individuals. [2] (Fortunately, Balrogs always have an
&gt; &gt; ample supply of whips, chains and other fun toys. :) His first task
&gt; &gt; is to flog Russ. We trust that he will attend to this task with all
&gt; &gt; due speed.
&gt;
&gt; we are pleased to accept this title, for the idea of inflicting
&gt; punishments amuses us.
&gt;
&gt; such punishments will be determined by us, although we will take care
&gt; to invoke the names of said authorised individuals *at first*, before
&gt; our coup plans come to fruition.
&gt;
&gt; (i feel plural.)

# I feel plural,
Oh, so plural;
I feel plural and double and dual!
Plus I'm puerile,
And find everybody else a fool! #

Report this message

#12: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-28 06:27:23 by Morgil

BaJoRi kirjoitti:
&gt; &quot;Morgil&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:morestelx&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">morestelx&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:c7gog.10390$<a href="mailto:fl3.1912&#64;reader1.news.jippii.net..." target="_blank">fl3.1912&#64;reader1.news.jippii.net...</a>
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Morgoth's Curse kirjoitti:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;The title of VILLAGE IDIOT passes from D.G. Porter to Morgil.
&gt;&gt;&gt;Congratulations, Morgil! Your mastery of the concept of idiocy is an
&gt;&gt;&gt;inspiration to idiots everywhere on the Usenet. ;-)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;I would gladly play the Village Idiot in your little fantasies,
&gt;&gt;if it only would stop you from digging up and restarting already
&gt;&gt;forgotten flame-threads.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Morgil
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; The funny thing is that it isn't play

Haven't you been flogged enough for one week already?

Morgil

Report this message

#13: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-28 14:16:31 by samdekat

Morgil wrote:
&gt; BaJoRi kirjoitti:
&gt; &gt; &quot;Morgil&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:morestelx&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">morestelx&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; &gt; news:c7gog.10390$<a href="mailto:fl3.1912&#64;reader1.news.jippii.net..." target="_blank">fl3.1912&#64;reader1.news.jippii.net...</a>
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;Morgoth's Curse kirjoitti:
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;The title of VILLAGE IDIOT passes from D.G. Porter to Morgil.
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;Congratulations, Morgil! Your mastery of the concept of idiocy is an
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;inspiration to idiots everywhere on the Usenet. ;-)
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;I would gladly play the Village Idiot in your little fantasies,
&gt; &gt;&gt;if it only would stop you from digging up and restarting already
&gt; &gt;&gt;forgotten flame-threads.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;Morgil
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; The funny thing is that it isn't play
&gt;
&gt; Haven't you been flogged enough for one week already?
&gt;
&gt; Morgil

Tsk! Leave some for me.

Report this message

#14: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-28 14:20:01 by BaJoRi

&quot;Sam's the little guy&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:samdekat&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">samdekat&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1151496991.900176.30180&#64;i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1151496991.900176.30180&#64;i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;
&gt; Morgil wrote:
&gt;&gt; BaJoRi kirjoitti:
&gt;&gt; &gt; &quot;Morgil&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:morestelx&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">morestelx&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt;&gt; &gt; news:c7gog.10390$<a href="mailto:fl3.1912&#64;reader1.news.jippii.net..." target="_blank">fl3.1912&#64;reader1.news.jippii.net...</a>
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Morgoth's Curse kirjoitti:
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;The title of VILLAGE IDIOT passes from D.G. Porter to Morgil.
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;Congratulations, Morgil! Your mastery of the concept of idiocy is an
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;inspiration to idiots everywhere on the Usenet. ;-)
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;I would gladly play the Village Idiot in your little fantasies,
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;if it only would stop you from digging up and restarting already
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;forgotten flame-threads.
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Morgil
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; The funny thing is that it isn't play
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Haven't you been flogged enough for one week already?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Morgil
&gt;
&gt; Tsk! Leave some for me.
&gt;

Yeah. The world is fearful of the intellectual prowess of you two clowns.
Ha.

Report this message

#15: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-28 14:50:20 by Troels Forchhammer

In message &lt;news:<a href="mailto:fpr2a25ma65bn973akuu5kirid4dfn8h4d&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">fpr2a25ma65bn973akuu5kirid4dfn8h4d&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;
Morgoth's Curse &lt;<a href="mailto:morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com" target="_blank">morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com</a>&gt; enriched us
with:
&gt;

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; Conrad Dunkerson retains his title as the GOD of the Tolkien
&gt; newsgroups,

&lt;<a href="http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/god.htm" target="_blank">http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/god.htm</a>&gt;

&gt; The title of WISE SAGE is therefore transferred to the wisest of
&gt; the many wise sages in AFT/RABT: Troels Forchhammer.
&gt; Congratulations, Troels.
&gt;:-)

&lt;insert appropriately smug protestations of unworthiness&gt;

;-)

I am, of course, grateful -- thanks.

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; The fate of our Steward is somewhat problematic.

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; Well done, Steuard!

Clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap!

&gt; &lt; pause to allow a mighty crescendo of applause and cheering
&gt; to diminish &gt;

Oh, I forgot the cheering -- can I have a little extra time?

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; it has been decided to forgive Steuard and allow him to retain
&gt; his title of STEWARD.

And of course the pun is irrestible ;-)

&gt; Congratulations, Steuard! :-)

Indeed.


&gt; The title of VALIANT WARRIOR now passes to Tar-Elenion.
&gt; Congratulation, Tar-Elenion! :-)

I would consider 'PROPHET' as also an appropriate title to bestow on
Tar-Elenion, though possibly a bit cruel (since one must inevitably ask
oneself, 'a prophet of whom?' &lt;G&gt;)

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; The title of COURT SCRIBE now passes to Christopher Kreuzer.
&gt; Congratulations, Christopher!

Christopher will henceforth be found in the annex,
rec.arts.books.tolkien.scriptorum . . . ;)

&gt; You should take a lesson from the fate of our last scribe and resume
&gt; working on your History of the Tolkien Newsgroups. ;-) [1]

I, too, have been thinking a bit on that project, and might as well try
to look at ways to proceed. Perhaps we should discuss it over a beer
(preferably cold) in a London pub come August ;-)

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; When I originally began bestowing titles, I conferred the
&gt; title of RESIDENT GADFLY upon Russ because he was so annoying.

And of course we know that the titles are entirely objective ;-)

&gt; The late and irreplaceable Softrat has been posthumously
&gt; awarded the title of the official OGRE of AFT/RABT. I am sure
&gt; that he would have been pleased or, at the least, would have
&gt; had a wittily sarcastic comment.
&gt; You will always be missed, Softie! :-(

Amen!

&lt;snip&gt;

--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is &lt;t.forch(a)email.dk&gt;

A good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows
how to read.
- /Guards! Guards!/ (Terry Pratchett)

Report this message

#16: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-28 15:08:06 by samdekat

BaJoRi wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Haven't you been flogged enough for one week already?
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Morgil
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Tsk! Leave some for me.
&gt; &gt;
&gt;
&gt; Yeah. The world is fearful of the intellectual prowess of you two clowns.

Compared to the gormless drooling imbecile that is you, we are
intellectual giants. Example: You claiming to have a quote from the ANC
website, only to be completed contradicted by a real quote - you
further claiming to have posted said imaginary quote - only to have it
revealed that at the time, you were presenting a completely different,
if equally as absurd conspiracy argument. Guess that stings a bit hey?

&lt;non-answer predicted&gt;


&gt; Ha.

Hilarious - you should do a road show. Perhaps you could bring along
your wife and the close friend from the movie th-
ooooh - sorry I forgot. You made that story up.

Report this message

#17: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-28 15:18:24 by Troels Forchhammer

In message &lt;news:<a href="mailto:MPG.1f0b9b9bb949eeae989cf5&#64;news.individual.net" target="_blank">MPG.1f0b9b9bb949eeae989cf5&#64;news.individual.net</a>&gt;
TT Arvind &lt;<a href="mailto:ttarvind&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">ttarvind&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; enriched us with:
&gt;

[Top Ten Statistics]

&gt; I stopped posting them largely because
&gt; (a) there was not much interest in them any longer in this
&gt; newsgroup

I'm not sure that that is entirely correct -- I always enjoyed them,
but rarely found reason to comment. They were of the informational
sort that one could rarely comment upon without either bragging (on
the top 10 list) or apologizing (on the bottom 10 lists).

&gt; (b) I got sick of the political flamefests heading the statistics

I can certainly understand that -- I'm wondering if it would be
possible to sort that out, but I think the problem would be how to
decide whether a thread is on-topic or not.

&gt; (c) Google provides the statistics for anyone who cares to
&gt; access its website.

The feature I liked best about your statistics was that you were
able to sort also the quoted/original/.sig ratios.

The service at Google[1] gives only the number of posts (at least I
can't find anything else) for the current month and all-time. The
historical information is available per poster, but again only for
number of posts.

The service from Microsoft[2] gives more details, but still doesn't
provide the 'original content' information.


[1] Google About groups:
&lt;<a href="http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books.tolkien/about?hl=en" target="_blank"> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books.tolkien/about? hl=en</a>&gt;

[2] Microsoft Research: Netscan
&lt;<a href="http://netscan.research.microsoft.com/reportcard.aspx?tp=10&amp;sd=6/21/" target="_blank"> http://netscan.research.microsoft.com/reportcard.aspx?tp=10& amp;sd=6/21/</a>
2006&amp;ng=rec.arts.books.tolkien&gt; Sorry about the wrapping -- the
TinyURL points there as well: &lt;<a href="http://tinyurl.com/la3tz" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/la3tz</a>&gt;

&gt; If I am wrong about (a) I will be happy to start posting them
&gt; again, but I doubt I am given that yours is the first comment on
&gt; it in the eighteen months or so since I stopped posting them.

I guess it's been one of those things that I've missed, but not
enough to take up the subject myself -- and which I appreciated, but
not enough to say so regularly. As you note yourself, the 'number
of posts' statistics are available elsewhere, and could easily be
skipped, but the other information was, IMO, valuable, and I would
be happy to see it posted again. I am, however, afraid that it could
well be exactly as ungrateful a job as earlier -- that we may fail
to communicate the interest with which we actually read them.

--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is &lt;t.forch(a)email.dk&gt;

The idea that time may vary from place to place is a
difficult one, but it is the idea Einstein used, and it is
correct - believe it or not.
- Richard Feynman

Report this message

#18: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-28 16:09:11 by BaJoRi

&quot;Sam's the little guy&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:samdekat&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">samdekat&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1151500085.978422.38920&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1151500085.978422.38920&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;
&gt; BaJoRi wrote:
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Haven't you been flogged enough for one week already?
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Morgil
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; Tsk! Leave some for me.
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Yeah. The world is fearful of the intellectual prowess of you two clowns.
&gt;
&gt; Compared to the gormless drooling imbecile that is you, we are
&gt; intellectual giants.

See, here you go with your head up your ass again, making things up to give
yourself a false sense of reality. You can't even keep from lying about the
smallest things.

<a href="http://www.schpaa.com/humor/show.asp?id=insideout.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.schpaa.com/humor/show.asp?id=insideout.jpg</a>

Report this message

#19: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-28 16:47:00 by samdekat

BaJoRi wrote:
&gt; &quot;Sam's the little guy&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:samdekat&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">samdekat&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message

&gt; See, here you go with your head up your ass again, making things up to give
&gt; yourself a false sense of reality. You can't even keep from lying about the
&gt; smallest things.
&gt;
&gt; <a href="http://www.schpaa.com/humor/show.asp?id=insideout.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.schpaa.com/humor/show.asp?id=insideout.jpg</a>


Admirably grotesque, but compared to your claims in the past, pretty
mild - for example, your claim that it was ok for the Israeli military
to gun down Palestinian children becuase they were throwing rocks -
throwing rocks! Or your snipping of quotes from actual eyewitnesses to
the massacre at Deir Yassin and then pretending that those people were
lying on account of being Palestinian. That kind of rampant racism
shows the implicit form of your shrivelled cowardly little torn soul,
the lies you tell bring into the full glare of sunshine.

Report this message

#20: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-28 18:48:05 by Taemon

TT Arvind wrote:

&gt; I stopped posting them largely because (a) there was not much
&gt; interest in them any longer in this newsgroup

I always liked them. Very much.

T.

Report this message

#21: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-28 18:53:33 by Taemon

Morgoth's Curse wrote:

&gt; The title of FOOL is now bestowed upon the Flame of the West.
&gt; Congratulations, Solinas! ; -)

I want some acknowledgement for Tamf, who is still the Fool of the
Black Club and thereby a better fool than Flame of the West.

T, Massster.

Report this message

#22: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-28 22:04:33 by Henriette

Morgoth's Curse schreef:

&gt; It is once again time to update the official AFT/RABT list of
&gt; titles.
(snip)
&gt; Queen: Jette Golde

That's Goldie, MC!

&gt; (snip) The
&gt; title of WISE SAGE is therefore transferred to the wisest of the many
&gt; wise sages in AFT/RABT: Troels Forchhammer. Congratulations, Troels.
&gt; :-)
&gt;
Part of Troels's wisdom must be the words of *our* national Dutch
pirate: Piet Hein, which Troels likes to quote;-)

&gt; The title CAPTAIN OF THE GUARDS now passes to Raven.
&gt; Congratulations, Raven! :-)
&gt;
I can already hear him from afar: &lt;whet whet whet whet&gt;

&gt; The miserable wretch known as Meneldil/TT Arvind has committed
&gt; the unpardonable sin of failing to post the Top 10 lists. He is
&gt; stripped of his title and a curse is placed upon him. Henceforth, he
&gt; shall be tormented by an irresistible urge to study obscure ancient
&gt; Polynesian languages.

This is an irresistible urge he already delights in, 'poor miserable
wretch';-)!

I would opt TT Arvind for the title Wise/Sage of AFT/RABT, if it
weren't for his insatiable need to be convinced how every AFT/RABT
poster likes his Top 10 lists and for his sudden lack of memory when it
comes to remembering how many times we have tried to convince him how
much we always have appreciated these!

Maybe TT Arvind can be our Interpreter, because I think he speaks the
biggest amount of languages here, and extremely different ones at that.
&gt;
&gt; Henriette retains her title LADY OF THE GOLDEN WORDS.
&gt; Congratulations, Henriette! :-)
&gt;
That is grand, thank you Morgoth's Curse! It must be my Silence of the
last few months (Silence is Golden) which made my title more fitting
than ever;-)

&gt; The only medieval equivalent which I could
&gt; think of was &quot;knave&quot; and I don't think that quite describes the role.
&gt; If anybody else has a better suggestion, please let me know as I wish
&gt; to assign the title to R. Dan Henry. :-)
&gt;
Bard?

&gt; The late and irreplaceable Softrat has been posthumously awarded
&gt; the title of the official OGRE of AFT/RABT. I am sure that he would
&gt; have been pleased or, at the least, would have had a wittily sarcastic
&gt; comment. You will always be missed, Softie! :-(
&gt;
Softie is being missed, that's for sure.

&gt; In the past, I have refrained from bestowing a title on myself
&gt; since it did not seem appropriate, but it has recently occurred to me
&gt; that I am an arrogant, elitist snob and therefore have not only the
&gt; right, but indeed the obligation to confer honors upon myself. In
&gt; that spirit, Morgoth's Curse is henceforth the official SEER of
&gt; AFT/RABT. If you want to know what the future will be, just ask me.
&gt; (Whether I choose to answer is, of course, a whole different issue.)
&gt;
That is a nice title, especially for someone who dwells so much in the
past, like you do, perfectionalistically reading every single post;-)
Have you yet caught up? This may be a good moment to express my
surprise that over time several posters have expressed being annoyed
because you dig up old threads. I often very much like those 'echo's
from the past'.

&gt; [1] In all seriousness, Christopher, how do you feel about the idea
&gt; of taking over the responsibility for the Top Ten statistics?

It was fun when Chistopher did all-time AFT/RABT poster-by-volume
statistics.

Henriette

Report this message

#23: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-28 22:37:25 by Christopher Kreuzer

Troels Forchhammer &lt;<a href="mailto:Troels&#64;ThisIsFake.invalid" target="_blank">Troels&#64;ThisIsFake.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; In message &lt;news:<a href="mailto:fpr2a25ma65bn973akuu5kirid4dfn8h4d&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">fpr2a25ma65bn973akuu5kirid4dfn8h4d&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;
&gt; Morgoth's Curse &lt;<a href="mailto:morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com" target="_blank">morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com</a>&gt; enriched us
&gt; with:

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt;&gt; The title of COURT SCRIBE now passes to Christopher Kreuzer.
&gt;&gt; Congratulations, Christopher!

Ooh! Thanks! :-)

As this is a court, do we all dress up in robes or something?

&gt; Christopher will henceforth be found in the annex,
&gt; rec.arts.books.tolkien.scriptorum . . . ;)

Where I tried to look up the meaning of scriptorum! :-)
It seems to be in a long-dead Romance language of some sort...

&gt;&gt; You should take a lesson from the fate of our last scribe and resume
&gt;&gt; working on your History of the Tolkien Newsgroups. ;-) [1]
&gt;
&gt; I, too, have been thinking a bit on that project, and might as well
&gt; try to look at ways to proceed. Perhaps we should discuss it over a
&gt; beer (preferably cold) in a London pub come August ;-)

Most definitely!

I am currently trying to prioritise various things, but that history
project tends to keep hovering around in the background. It really needs
several people to try doing something vaguely organised for a few months
to see if it seems worthwhile and doable. Or at least to learn lessons
in failing in various amusing ways, such as getting side-tracked into
reading old posts, old flame wars, or falling through a crack in the
fabric of space-time (dangerous place USENET, you know).

&lt;snip&gt;

Christopher

--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard

Report this message

#24: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-28 22:58:55 by Christopher Kreuzer

Troels Forchhammer &lt;<a href="mailto:Troels&#64;ThisIsFake.invalid" target="_blank">Troels&#64;ThisIsFake.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; In message &lt;news:<a href="mailto:MPG.1f0b9b9bb949eeae989cf5&#64;news.individual.net" target="_blank">MPG.1f0b9b9bb949eeae989cf5&#64;news.individual.net</a>&gt;
&gt; TT Arvind &lt;<a href="mailto:ttarvind&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">ttarvind&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; enriched us with:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; [Top Ten Statistics]
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I stopped posting them largely because
&gt;&gt; (a) there was not much interest in them any longer in this
&gt;&gt; newsgroup
&gt;
&gt; I'm not sure that that is entirely correct -- I always enjoyed them,
&gt; but rarely found reason to comment. They were of the informational
&gt; sort that one could rarely comment upon without either bragging (on
&gt; the top 10 list) or apologizing (on the bottom 10 lists).

I enjoyed them as well. I also found a site once (a blog, I think) that
briefly did a weekly digest/summary of the threads that week. That might
be interesting as well, but it is probably the nature of the beast
(USENET) that the dynamic is not quite suited for that sort of thing.

&gt;&gt; (b) I got sick of the political flamefests heading the statistics
&gt;
&gt; I can certainly understand that -- I'm wondering if it would be
&gt; possible to sort that out, but I think the problem would be how to
&gt; decide whether a thread is on-topic or not.

Difficult for the most part, as people often forget to change the
subject header as the topic veers into new areas. Some interesting stuff
can be found in off-topic posts.

&gt;&gt; (c) Google provides the statistics for anyone who cares to
&gt;&gt; access its website.
&gt;
&gt; The feature I liked best about your statistics was that you were
&gt; able to sort also the quoted/original/.sig ratios.

I liked Arvind's statistics posts as well. Enough to save separate
copies of the posts anyway. If more response is needed/wanted, then I'd
suggest that two separate posts are required: (1) Statistics and (2)
Digest of what was discussed. The latter would generate discussion, but
couldn't be generated automatically like the statistics could.

&gt; The service at Google[1] gives only the number of posts (at least I
&gt; can't find anything else) for the current month and all-time. The
&gt; historical information is available per poster, but again only for
&gt; number of posts.
&gt;
&gt; The service from Microsoft[2] gives more details, but still doesn't
&gt; provide the 'original content' information.

&lt;snip URLs&gt;

Thanks for those. I am rather alarmed to find myself perilously near the
top of the all-time posters list for rec.arts.books.tolkien (according
to Google anyway). I've left our trusty 'Steward' trailing in the dust
and am scaling the heights of our incomparable (and much missed) 'Ogre'.
After that, only 'God' and 'He-who-shall-not-be-named' await! :-)

Thankfully the peak of alt.fan.tolkien still remains reassuringly out of
reach.

Hmm. As you can see, &quot;number of posts by X&quot; statistics promote unhealthy
navel-gazing!

Part of the problem seems to be that although those two services have
their advantages and disadvantages, what we really need is a separate
archive of AFT and RABT, as complete as possible, to mine for data
independently of the way it is packaged and presented by those two
services.

One idea that I was particularly excited by the last time such things
were discussed, was the idea of tracing the evolution of discussion on a
particular (Tolkien-related) topic over the 10+ (now approaching 14+)
years of the archives of these newsgroups.

Hmm. I'm _this_ close to digging up the old posts, plans and websites
(yes, it got as far as a website that someone put up somewhere).
Unfortunately I don't have time right now. :-(

Maybe third time lucky? :-)

Christopher

--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard

Report this message

#25: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-28 23:02:13 by Christopher Kreuzer

Henriette &lt;<a href="mailto:heldenib&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">heldenib&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; It was fun when Chistopher did all-time AFT/RABT poster-by-volume
&gt; statistics.

I have fond memories of that! What was particularly memorable was the
way several old-timers (many I'd never heard of) popped up to identify
themselves with particular noms de plumes, or identifying metamorphoses
between IDs, often binding me to ever-lasting secrecy! :-)

All carefully filed away in the scriptorum, of course!

Christopher

--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard

Report this message

#26: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-29 00:57:13 by TT Arvind

Wes =F0u Taemon hal!
&gt; TT Arvind wrote:
&gt;=20
&gt; &gt; I stopped posting them largely because (a) there was not much
&gt; &gt; interest in them any longer in this newsgroup
&gt;=20
&gt; I always liked them. Very much.

Point taken comrades. I'll set the script up again this weekend and=20
get things rolling again.

I must say it's a good thing I no longer work in a job where I need to=20
accurately judge how people feel!

--=20
Les grandes personnes sont d=E9cid=E9ment bien bizarres, se dit le petit=20
prince.

Report this message

#27: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-29 02:01:49 by TT Arvind

Wes =F0u Troels Forchhammer hal!
&gt;=20
&gt; I'm not sure that that is entirely correct -- I always enjoyed them,
&gt; but rarely found reason to comment. They were of the informational
&gt; sort that one could rarely comment upon without either bragging (on
&gt; the top 10 list) or apologizing (on the bottom 10 lists).=20

What I really meant was that I thought that most people, like myself,=20
were sick of the idiotic flames that kept topping the lists and did not=20
miss them for that reason, not that they never were appreciated.

Anyway, I'm halfway through setting up said scripts on the machine I=20
now use, so they will be back in a few days. Be afraid, be very=20
afraid.

--=20
Natten =E4r dagens mor=20
Kaos =E4r granne med Gud

Report this message

#28: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-29 03:22:33 by sbjensen

Quoth Morgoth's Curse &lt;<a href="mailto:morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com" target="_blank">morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com</a>&gt; in article
&lt;<a href="mailto:fpr2a25ma65bn973akuu5kirid4dfn8h4d&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">fpr2a25ma65bn973akuu5kirid4dfn8h4d&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;:
&gt; The fate of our Steward is somewhat problematic.
[...]
&gt; On the other hand, as Steuard himself has admitted, he has
&gt; effectively abandoned AFT to off-topic political posts in favor of
&gt; the more reserved RABT. Bad Steward!

Reently, of course, I've had trouble keeping up with either one. More
on that below. Happily, the political insanity level on AFT hasn't
seemed as bad recently, so I think my earlier reasons for backing off
from there don't apply as much anymore. Whenever I'm able to get back
in the swing around here, I'll try to be a benevolent Steward to both
groups. :)

&gt; In consideration of the extenuating circumstances (i.e. his
&gt; academic work and the fact that we can't find anybody else to do the
&gt; job for free), it has been decided to forgive Steuard and allow him to
&gt; retain his title of STEWARD. Congratulations, Steuard! :-)

Why thank you. :)

I thought I'd take this opportunity to give the groups a very brief
update on my life at the moment, which includes all sorts of
extenuating circumstances. First, at long last I'm scheduled to
defend my Ph.D. thesis two weeks from today. I still have lots of
work to do to be ready for that, but it's going well and I have no
doubt of a positive outcome. Second, I start a job next fall as a
professor in Claremont, California, where I'll be for the next couple
of years (before trying to land a tenure-track position). That should
be fun, though it will keep me busy.

And finally, I seem to be facing a frustrating medical condition
called a &quot;giant cell tumor&quot; in the bone above my right knee. Lots of
evidence thus far indicates that it's benign (like almost all such
tumors), but it's fairly big and it's got to come out. The surgery
will be sometime in July, hopefully not long after my thesis defense.
Recovery will no doubt be long and painful, but from all I've heard
people with these things have very good odds of suffering no major ill
effects in the long term. That doesn't make it any less annoying
right now, though. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Steuard Jensen

Report this message

#29: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-29 09:24:22 by Troels Forchhammer

In message &lt;news:tXFog.60$<a href="mailto:25.5071&#64;news.uchicago.edu" target="_blank">25.5071&#64;news.uchicago.edu</a>&gt;
<a href="mailto:sbjensen&#64;midway.uchicago.edu" target="_blank">sbjensen&#64;midway.uchicago.edu</a> (Steuard Jensen) enriched us with:
&gt;

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; I thought I'd take this opportunity to give the groups a very
&gt; brief update on my life at the moment,

&lt;snip details&gt;

Lots of good reasons for us to keep our fingers crossed --
congratulations with the good news, and the best of luck with
everything.

A laita lyë, laitalyë! I Héru as elye!

&gt; I'll let you know how it turns out.

With everything, I hope ;)

--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is &lt;t.forch(a)email.dk&gt;

+++ Divide By Cucumber Error. Please Reinstall Universe And Reboot +++
- /Hogfather/ (Terry Pratchett)

Report this message

#30: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-29 19:33:35 by Henriette

TT Arvind schreef:

&gt; Wes =F0u Taemon hal!
&gt; &gt; TT Arvind wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; I stopped posting them largely because (a) there was not much
&gt; &gt; &gt; interest in them any longer in this newsgroup
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; I always liked them. Very much.
&gt;
&gt; Point taken comrades. I'll set the script up again this weekend and
&gt; get things rolling again.
&gt;
Thank you, that is kind!

&gt; I must say it's a good thing I no longer work in a job where I need to
&gt; accurately judge how people feel!
&gt;
LOL! Both this last sentence and...

&gt; Les grandes personnes sont d=E9cid=E9ment bien bizarres, se dit le petit
&gt; prince.

..=2E.this one, nicely round up this discussion;-)

Henriette

Report this message

#31: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-29 19:39:09 by Henriette

Christopher Kreuzer schreef:

&gt; Henriette &lt;<a href="mailto:heldenib&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">heldenib&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;
&gt; &gt; It was fun when Chistopher did all-time AFT/RABT poster-by-volume
&gt; &gt; statistics.
&gt;
&gt; I have fond memories of that! What was particularly memorable was the
&gt; way several old-timers (many I'd never heard of) popped up to identify
&gt; themselves with particular noms de plumes, or identifying metamorphoses
&gt; between IDs, often binding me to ever-lasting secrecy! :-)
&gt;
Something like Pradera got himself a new PC and called himself
Christopher Kreuzer?;-)

Henriette

Report this message

#32: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-29 19:51:10 by Henriette

Steuard Jensen schreef:
(snip)
&gt;
&gt; I thought I'd take this opportunity to give the groups a very brief
&gt; update on my life at the moment, which includes all sorts of
&gt; extenuating circumstances. First, at long last I'm scheduled to
&gt; defend my Ph.D. thesis two weeks from today.

'On the Origin of Hobbits'?;-) Wonderful, bravo! What is it about?

&gt;I still have lots of
&gt; work to do to be ready for that, but it's going well and I have no
&gt; doubt of a positive outcome. Second, I start a job next fall as a
&gt; professor in Claremont, California, where I'll be for the next couple
&gt; of years (before trying to land a tenure-track position). That should
&gt; be fun, though it will keep me busy.
&gt;
Bravissimo! Well done! As for California, that is one of the best
places I have ever been to, so as far as that goes, you're very
fortunate!

&gt; And finally, I seem to be facing a frustrating medical condition
&gt; called a &quot;giant cell tumor&quot; in the bone above my right knee. Lots of
&gt; evidence thus far indicates that it's benign (like almost all such
&gt; tumors), but it's fairly big and it's got to come out. The surgery
&gt; will be sometime in July, hopefully not long after my thesis defense.
&gt; Recovery will no doubt be long and painful, but from all I've heard
&gt; people with these things have very good odds of suffering no major ill
&gt; effects in the long term. That doesn't make it any less annoying
&gt; right now, though. I'll let you know how it turns out.
&gt;
Please do! This sounds a lot less fortunate... I'll keep my fingers
crossed!

Henriette

Report this message

#33: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-29 20:14:13 by Taemon

TT Arvind wrote:

&gt; Wes ðu Taemon hal!
&gt;&gt; TT Arvind wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; I stopped posting them largely because (a) there was not much
&gt;&gt;&gt; interest in them any longer in this newsgroup
&gt;&gt; I always liked them. Very much.
&gt; Point taken comrades. I'll set the script up again this weekend
&gt; and get things rolling again.

You're welcome, and our thanks.

&gt; I must say it's a good thing I no longer work in a job where I
&gt; need to accurately judge how people feel!

So... how did you lose that job, then?

;-)

T.

Report this message

#34: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-29 20:19:02 by Taemon

Steuard Jensen wrote:

&gt; I'll let you know how it turns out.

Oh, please do! On all of it! Good luck to you!

This sentences is added for the sole purpose of having a sentence
included that does not carry an exclamation mark.

T.

Report this message

#35: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-29 21:55:41 by bredband.net

&quot;Laurie Forbes&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:moc.rr.eniam&#64;1sebrofr" target="_blank">moc.rr.eniam&#64;1sebrofr</a>&gt; skrev i meddelandet
news:Uykog.35533$<a href="mailto:W97.13635&#64;twister.nyroc.rr.com..." target="_blank">W97.13635&#64;twister.nyroc.rr.com...</a>

[smip]

&gt;&gt; (i feel plural.)
&gt;
&gt; # I feel plural,
&gt; Oh, so plural;
&gt; I feel plural and double and dual!
&gt; Plus I'm puerile,
&gt; And find everybody else a fool! #

Tra-la-la-la-la-la-LA!
Oops! Sorry. That should of course be &quot;tra-la-lally&quot;.

Öjevind

Report this message

#36: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-29 22:15:37 by Christopher Kreuzer

Steuard Jensen &lt;<a href="mailto:sbjensen&#64;midway.uchicago.edu" target="_blank">sbjensen&#64;midway.uchicago.edu</a>&gt; wrote:

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; I thought I'd take this opportunity to give the groups a very brief
&gt; update on my life at the moment, which includes all sorts of
&gt; extenuating circumstances.

Thanks for the update. Good luck with everything, and do let us know how
things turn out.

Christopher

--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard

Report this message

#37: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-29 22:56:39 by Christopher Kreuzer

Henriette &lt;<a href="mailto:heldenib&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">heldenib&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; Something like Pradera got himself a new PC and called himself
&gt; Christopher Kreuzer?;-)

Sadly nothing that complicated.

The earliest message I can find from Pradera is here, on 25 April 2002:

<a href="http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books.tolkien/msg/b8f943be8a7e6362" target="_blank"> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books.tolkien/msg/b8 f943be8a7e6362</a>

And the latest I could find was from 26 January 2004.

It might look like I first posted on 25 December 2002, but there is an
earlier period of posting history, a grand total of 13 posts from 1996
(Hmm. It looks like I missed a 10-year anniversary somewhere in March
this year).

But I'm sure you remember all this from the last time such things were
discussed! &lt;puzzled look&gt; &lt;slaps self on forehead&gt; I see what's going
on here! You are trying to lure me back into trawling through the
history of the newsgroups! Well, you almost succeeded, btu I got
sidetracked by this:

<a href="http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/browse_frm/thread/a39460bbef0ec3da" target="_blank"> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/browse_frm/th read/a39460bbef0ec3da</a>

And by this:

<a href="http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/browse_frm/thread/969bbebce816917c" target="_blank"> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/browse_frm/th read/969bbebce816917c</a>

And also by this:

<a href="http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/browse_frm/thread/798e93cac85e6c9" target="_blank"> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/browse_frm/th read/798e93cac85e6c9</a>

Very difficult to avoid being sidetracked.

Christopher

--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard

Report this message

#38: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-30 01:33:30 by Troels Forchhammer

In message &lt;news:b8Xog.93501$<a href="mailto:wl.31632&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk" target="_blank">wl.31632&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk</a>&gt;
&quot;Christopher Kreuzer&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:spamgard&#64;blueyonder.co.uk" target="_blank">spamgard&#64;blueyonder.co.uk</a>&gt; enriched us with:
&gt;

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; &lt;puzzled look&gt; &lt;slaps self on forehead&gt; I see what's going on here!
&gt; You are trying to lure me back into trawling through the history of
&gt; the newsgroups! Well, you almost succeeded, btu I got sidetracked

&lt;snip sidetracks&gt;

&gt; Very difficult to avoid being sidetracked.

I'm suspecting that a history of the Tolkien newsgroups will have to
become an attempt at bringing some order into a great confluence of
sidetracks ;)

I'm still willing to do some of the basic statistics, but a real
newsgroup history will still be a huge project.

--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is &lt;t.forch(a)email.dk&gt;

Elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo
- /The Fellowship of the Ring/ (J.R.R. Tolkien)

Report this message

#39: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-30 01:33:48 by Troels Forchhammer

In message &lt;news:<a href="mailto:MPG.1f0d19a5f8cff7ee989cf6&#64;news.individual.net" target="_blank">MPG.1f0d19a5f8cff7ee989cf6&#64;news.individual.net</a>&gt;
TT Arvind &lt;<a href="mailto:ttarvind&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">ttarvind&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; enriched us with:
&gt;

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; Point taken comrades. I'll set the script up again this weekend
&gt; and get things rolling again.

Yay! ;-)

Oh, and just ask us from time to time if we want them to stop -- we'll
shout our 'No!' in chorus ;)

And, satisfying idle curiosity, does your scripts work on the server or
on your disk?

&gt; I must say it's a good thing I no longer work in a job where I
&gt; need to accurately judge how people feel!

LOL!

--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is &lt;t.forch(a)email.dk&gt;

&quot;It would seem that you have no useful skill or talent
whatsoever,&quot; he said. &quot;Have you thought of going into
teaching?&quot;
- /Mort/ (Terry Pratchett)

Report this message

#40: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-30 01:36:38 by Troels Forchhammer

In message &lt;news:b8Xog.93501$<a href="mailto:wl.31632&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk" target="_blank">wl.31632&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk</a>&gt;
&quot;Christopher Kreuzer&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:spamgard&#64;blueyonder.co.uk" target="_blank">spamgard&#64;blueyonder.co.uk</a>&gt; enriched us with:
&gt;

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; &lt;puzzled look&gt; &lt;slaps self on forehead&gt; I see what's going on here!
&gt; You are trying to lure me back into trawling through the history of
&gt; the newsgroups! Well, you almost succeeded, btu I got sidetracked

&lt;snip sidetracks&gt;

&gt; Very difficult to avoid being sidetracked.

I'm suspecting that a history of the Tolkien newsgroups will have to
become an attempt at bringing some order into a great confluence of
sidetracks ;)

I'm still willing to do some of the basic statistics, but a real
newsgroup history will still be a huge project.

--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is &lt;t.forch(a)email.dk&gt;

Elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo
- /The Fellowship of the Ring/ (J.R.R. Tolkien)

Report this message

#41: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-30 01:41:02 by TT Arvind

Wes =F0u Troels Forchhammer hal!

&gt; And, satisfying idle curiosity, does your scripts work on the server or=
=20
&gt; on your disk?=20

The old ones I used to use - the ones with separate lists of top ten=20
posters and subjects - ran on a UNIX server. The one I then switched=20
to is a pure perl script, which will run on any system which runs perl,=20
so I used to run those on a Linux desktop. I'm now trying to set them=20
up to run on a windows desktop.

Arvind

Report this message

#42: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-30 03:29:50 by Count Menelvagor

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:

&gt; But I'm sure you remember all this from the last time such things were
&gt; discussed! &lt;puzzled look&gt; &lt;slaps self on forehead&gt; I see what's going
&gt; on here! You are trying to lure me back into trawling through the
&gt; history of the newsgroups! Well, you almost succeeded, btu I got
&gt; sidetracked by this:
&gt;
&gt; <a href="http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/browse_frm/thread/a39460bbef0ec3da" target="_blank"> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/browse_frm/th read/a39460bbef0ec3da</a>
&gt;
&gt; And by this:
&gt;
&gt; <a href="http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/browse_frm/thread/969bbebce816917c" target="_blank"> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/browse_frm/th read/969bbebce816917c</a>
&gt;
&gt; And also by this:
&gt;
&gt; <a href="http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/browse_frm/thread/798e93cac85e6c9" target="_blank"> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/browse_frm/th read/798e93cac85e6c9</a>
&gt;
&gt; Very difficult to avoid being sidetracked.

ah, the nostalgia. 2000 was fun! (nice to see grimgard's back,
though.)

and i still miss deja, even though it was often rubbish on weekends.

PS. orcs had webbed feet.

Report this message

#43: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-30 16:18:18 by Troels Forchhammer

In message &lt;news:9MBog.92928$<a href="mailto:wl.17172&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk" target="_blank">wl.17172&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk</a>&gt;
&quot;Christopher Kreuzer&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:spamgard&#64;blueyonder.co.uk" target="_blank">spamgard&#64;blueyonder.co.uk</a>&gt; enriched us with:
&gt;
&gt; Troels Forchhammer &lt;<a href="mailto:Troels&#64;ThisIsFake.invalid" target="_blank">Troels&#64;ThisIsFake.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; In message &lt;news:<a href="mailto:fpr2a25ma65bn973akuu5kirid4dfn8h4d&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">fpr2a25ma65bn973akuu5kirid4dfn8h4d&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;
&gt;&gt; Morgoth's Curse &lt;<a href="mailto:morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com" target="_blank">morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com</a>&gt; enriched us
&gt;&gt; with:
&gt;
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; The title of COURT SCRIBE now passes to Christopher
&gt;&gt;&gt; Kreuzer.
&gt;&gt;&gt; Congratulations, Christopher!
&gt;
&gt; Ooh! Thanks! :-)
&gt;
&gt; As this is a court, do we all dress up in robes or something?




&gt;&gt; Christopher will henceforth be found in the annex,
&gt;&gt; rec.arts.books.tolkien.scriptorum . . . ;)
&gt;
&gt; Where I tried to look up the meaning of scriptorum! :-)

Afraid I missed an i -- it should, naturally, have been scriptorium
(sorry), although I guess that you know that already ;)

&gt; It seems to be in a long-dead Romance language of some sort...

Nothing Scandinavian or Germannic about it, no, so let's just move on
briskly ;)

&lt;snip&gt;

[The Tolkien Newsgroup History Project]

&gt; I am currently trying to prioritise various things, but that
&gt; history project tends to keep hovering around in the background.

It has a way of doing just that in my mind as well -- it's always
that next thing that I never seem to get around to ;)

&gt; It really needs several people to try doing something vaguely
&gt; organised for a few months to see if it seems worthwhile and
&gt; doable.

Of course it also depends on what we want to achieve. If all we're
interested in is some fancy graphs showing the development of
selected numbers from 1992 to date, then it can be done with less
fuss, but if we want to be able to say a little about whom the people
and what the subjects were that are behind the numbers, then we'll
need a fairly organized effort, I'd say.

&gt; Or at least to learn lessons in failing in various amusing ways,

LOL! The risk of avoiding that is, I think, very minimal . . .

&gt; such as getting side-tracked into reading old posts,

Obviously that should not be a side-track, but the correct way of
doing the research ;)

&gt; old flame wars,

That's another part of the research.

&gt; or falling through a crack in the fabric of space-time
&gt; (dangerous place USENET, you know).

Very dangerous!

But that would be interfering with the course of history.
Horrible things could happen. The Librarian knew all about
this sort of thing, it was part of what you had to know
before you were allowed into L-space. He'd seen pictures in
ancient books. Time could bifurcate, like a pair of
trousers. You could end up in the wrong leg, living a life
that was actually happening in the other leg, talking to
people who weren't in your leg, walking into walls that
weren't there any more. Life could be horrible in the wrong
trouser of Time.
Besides, it was against Library rules.[*] The assembled
Librarians of Time and Space would certainly have something
to say about it if he started to tinker with causality.
[*] The three rules of the Librarians of Time and Space are:
1) Silence;
2) Books must be returned no later than the last date shown;
and
3) Do not interfere with the nature of causality.
[Terry Pratchett, /Guards! Guards!/]


--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is &lt;t.forch(a)email.dk&gt;

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable
from magic.
- Arthur C. Clarke, /Profiles of The Future/, 1961
(Also known as 'Clarke's third law')

Report this message

#44: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-06-30 16:47:08 by sbjensen

Quoth &quot;Henriette&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:heldenib&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">heldenib&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; in article
&lt;<a href="mailto:1151603470.405394.279250&#64;m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1151603470.405394.279250&#64;m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;:
&gt; Steuard Jensen schreef:
&gt; &gt; First, at long last I'm scheduled to defend my Ph.D. thesis two
&gt; &gt; weeks from today.

&gt; 'On the Origin of Hobbits'?;-) Wonderful, bravo! What is it about?

I thought about just submitting my &quot;What is Tom Bombadil&quot; essay, but
then I imagined going through and converting all the citations to MLA
form and I decided it was hopeless.

So instead, I decided the title should be &quot;Instantons and Chiral
Symmetry in String Theory&quot;. I'm afraid it would take me a little
while to explain what all that means, though. :)

&gt; &gt; Second, I start a job next fall as a professor in Claremont,
&gt; &gt; California

&gt; As for California, that is one of the best places I have ever been

It has its good points, certainly. :) But I'll miss the snow (and the
seasons generally), and Claremont gets hit with rather a lot of the
Los Angeles area smog. Still, yeah, it'll be nice.

&gt; &gt; And finally, I seem to be facing a frustrating medical condition...

&gt; I'll keep my fingers crossed!

Thanks!
Steuard Jensen

Report this message

#45: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-01 02:12:29 by Christopher Kreuzer

Troels Forchhammer &lt;<a href="mailto:Troels&#64;ThisIsFake.invalid" target="_blank">Troels&#64;ThisIsFake.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; In message &lt;news:9MBog.92928$<a href="mailto:wl.17172&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk" target="_blank">wl.17172&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk</a>&gt;
&gt; &quot;Christopher Kreuzer&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:spamgard&#64;blueyonder.co.uk" target="_blank">spamgard&#64;blueyonder.co.uk</a>&gt; enriched us with:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Troels Forchhammer &lt;<a href="mailto:Troels&#64;ThisIsFake.invalid" target="_blank">Troels&#64;ThisIsFake.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt;&gt;&gt; Christopher will henceforth be found in the annex,
&gt;&gt;&gt; rec.arts.books.tolkien.scriptorum . . . ;)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Where I tried to look up the meaning of scriptorum! :-)
&gt;
&gt; Afraid I missed an i -- it should, naturally, have been scriptorium
&gt; (sorry), although I guess that you know that already ;)

Actually, I didn't stop to think it might have been a mis-spelling. I
kind of assumed you were using a Latin term.

I've now looked up the definitions, and I like this one best!

&quot;The scriptorium was the head of the monastic scriptoria or writing
rooms. The scriptorium was an important monastic office and represented
concerted power and influence in the monastery. These writing rooms were
where monks copied sacred and important historical texts for posterity.&quot;

:-)

Not that I've ever taken monastic vows, of course.

Christopher

--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard

Report this message

#46: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-01 03:17:05 by TT Arvind

Wes =F0u Taemon hal!

&gt; &gt; I must say it's a good thing I no longer work in a job where I
&gt; &gt; need to accurately judge how people feel!
&gt;=20
&gt; So... how did you lose that job, then?

I quit. Or at least, that's the story I give out ;-)

--=20
Arvind

Report this message

#47: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-01 06:13:23 by morgothscurse2002

On 28 Jun 2006 13:04:33 -0700, &quot;Henriette&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:heldenib&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">heldenib&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;&gt; In the past, I have refrained from bestowing a title on myself
&gt;&gt; since it did not seem appropriate, but it has recently occurred to me
&gt;&gt; that I am an arrogant, elitist snob and therefore have not only the
&gt;&gt; right, but indeed the obligation to confer honors upon myself. In
&gt;&gt; that spirit, Morgoth's Curse is henceforth the official SEER of
&gt;&gt; AFT/RABT. If you want to know what the future will be, just ask me.
&gt;&gt; (Whether I choose to answer is, of course, a whole different issue.)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;That is a nice title, especially for someone who dwells so much in the
&gt;past, like you do, perfectionalistically reading every single post;-)
&gt;Have you yet caught up? This may be a good moment to express my
&gt;surprise that over time several posters have expressed being annoyed
&gt;because you dig up old threads. I often very much like those 'echo's
&gt;from the past'.

What is past is prologue. Who is thus more qualified to see farther
and deeper than Morgoth's Curse? ;-)

Morgoth's Curse

Report this message

#48: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-01 15:24:40 by Henriette

Christopher Kreuzer schreef:

&gt; Henriette &lt;<a href="mailto:heldenib&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">heldenib&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Something like Pradera got himself a new PC and called himself
&gt; &gt; Christopher Kreuzer?;-)
&gt;
&gt; Sadly nothing that complicated.
(snip Pradera, although I never understood why someone who posted day
and night suddenly completely disappeared)
&gt; It might look like I first posted on 25 December 2002, but there is an
&gt; earlier period of posting history, a grand total of 13 posts from 1996
&gt; (Hmm. It looks like I missed a 10-year anniversary somewhere in March
&gt; this year).
&gt;
Congratulations!;-) Did you use the same name in 1996? Did you then
leave for a few years?

&gt; But I'm sure you remember all this from the last time such things were
&gt; discussed! &lt;puzzled look&gt; &lt;slaps self on forehead&gt; I see what's going
&gt; on here! You are trying to lure me back into trawling through the
&gt; history of the newsgroups! Well, you almost succeeded, btu I got
&gt; sidetracked by this:
&gt; (snip links)
&gt;
LOL, I can understand why you get sidetracked and I see nothing much
changes over the years: posters writing nice/weird/interesting posts,
people flaming, people trying to start up Scandinavian language
threads...

But no, I am not trying to lure you anywhere, even less into the
history of the newsgroups, the threads about which I did not follow.
I'm not much into history, although, because like Morgoth's Curse says:
History is the Prologue, I'm catching up a little on the history of
Europe, with, may Eru forgive me, a special eye out for the history of
the Netherlands and... the history of Ireland.

What I was actually refering to is this quote of yours:

&gt; I have fond memories of that! What was particularly memorable was the
&gt; way several old-timers (many I'd never heard of) popped up to identify
&gt; themselves with particular noms de plumes, or identifying metamorphoses
&gt; between IDs, often binding me to ever-lasting secrecy! :-)

I am intrigued by that sentence. So Ty was Russ after all, probably;
but whom didn't we find out? And why would they tell you, even when
they knew you wouldn't betray their trust?

Henriette

Report this message

#49: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-01 15:35:46 by Henriette

Morgoth's Curse schreef:
&gt;
&gt; What is past is prologue. Who is thus more qualified to see farther
&gt; and deeper than Morgoth's Curse? ;-)
&gt;
In a Court of Law you wouldn't need a Lawyer ever, I think;-)

Report this message

#50: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-01 15:52:50 by Christopher Kreuzer

Henriette &lt;<a href="mailto:heldenib&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">heldenib&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Christopher Kreuzer schreef:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Henriette &lt;<a href="mailto:heldenib&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">heldenib&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Something like Pradera got himself a new PC and called himself
&gt;&gt;&gt; Christopher Kreuzer?;-)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Sadly nothing that complicated.
&gt; (snip Pradera, although I never understood why someone who posted day
&gt; and night suddenly completely disappeared)

It happens. Unless you are in touch by e-mail, you may never find out
what happened, especially if you don't know someone's real name. Even if
you are in touch by e-mail, people drift away. That's partly why I like
history threads and discussions. It gives some context.

&gt;&gt; It might look like I first posted on 25 December 2002, but there is
&gt;&gt; an earlier period of posting history, a grand total of 13 posts from
&gt;&gt; 1996 (Hmm. It looks like I missed a 10-year anniversary somewhere in
&gt;&gt; March this year).
&gt;&gt;
&gt; Congratulations!;-) Did you use the same name in 1996? Did you then
&gt; leave for a few years?

Same name. It was at university. I had already read the books some years
earlier, and it was at about that time (1996) that I was getting
involved with Tolkien fandom. But I didn't really get involved in any
online fandom until the films prompted me to start looking, and I
rediscovered the newsgroups. Even now, this is really the only area of
online fandom I participate in and the only online Tolkien area I read,
though I did recently discover a very good Tolkien news website:

<a href="http://tolkiennews.net/" target="_blank">http://tolkiennews.net/</a>

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; What I was actually refering to is this quote of yours:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I have fond memories of that! What was particularly memorable was the
&gt;&gt; way several old-timers (many I'd never heard of) popped up to
&gt;&gt; identify themselves with particular noms de plumes, or identifying
&gt;&gt; metamorphoses between IDs, often binding me to ever-lasting secrecy!
&gt;&gt; :-)
&gt;
&gt; I am intrigued by that sentence. So Ty was Russ after all, probably;
&gt; but whom didn't we find out? And why would they tell you, even when
&gt; they knew you wouldn't betray their trust?

Oh, I wasn't referring to that. My &quot;history of posters&quot; stuff was before
Ty appeared. I was intrigued by your speculation that Ty was Russ, but
unless people actually say they are changing their handle, I tend to
treat each handle on their own merits. Either that, or you start
thinking that everyone is everyone else! That way madness lies... :-)

Though I do sometimes wonder about the various handles that, um, post
'humorous' material (eg. phone FATS, some of which I do find funny).
Surely there can't be that many people that can come up with weird stuff
like that! LOL!

Christopher

--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard

Report this message

#51: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-01 16:04:53 by Henriette

Steuard Jensen schreef:
&gt;
&gt; I thought about just submitting my &quot;What is Tom Bombadil&quot; essay, but
&gt; then I imagined going through and converting all the citations to MLA
&gt; form and I decided it was hopeless.
&gt;
&gt; So instead, I decided the title should be &quot;Instantons and Chiral
&gt; Symmetry in String Theory&quot;. I'm afraid it would take me a little
&gt; while to explain what all that means, though. :)

LOL, I hope it would, or your PhD would not stand a chance! Physics,
specifically cosmology? Anyway, thank you for telling me. I have this
strange hobby of always reading all the PhD thesis titles which are
published in one of our university papers, though seldom understanding
any of it;-)
&gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; And finally, I seem to be facing a frustrating medical condition...
(snip)

When things get *really* frustrating you can pick up your guitar again,
on occasion, and sing it out loudly:

Die die-die! Die die-die die die die-die,
Die die-die! Die die-die die die die die die-die-die-die die!;-)

Henriette

Report this message

#52: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-01 16:24:30 by Henriette

Morgoth's Curse schreef:

BTW Your 'digging up of old threads' is actually quite clever. Google
did not want me to reply to this (your) post:

Well, I am considering unsubscribing from alt.org.sierra-club and
alt.forestry. Much to my disappointment, alt.org.sierra-club is just
a collection of links and partisan sneers: &quot;It's all the liberals'
fault! No, It's the Republicans' fault!&quot; and so on. Alt.forestry is
likewise just a collection of Grumpy Old Loggers complaining about
environmental and federal regulations. I am still searching for a
forum and/or newsgroup where people can offer practical advice about
environmental protection and restoration.

because it was more than 30 days old, so I had to copy/paste it! to
ask: did you manage to find such an environmentally friendly newsgroup?
What is 'sierra' referring to?

Henriette

Report this message

#53: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-01 20:54:46 by BaJoRi

&quot;Henriette&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:heldenib&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">heldenib&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1151763870.602666.6820&#64;v61g2000cwv.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1151763870.602666.6820&#64;v61g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; Morgoth's Curse schreef:
&gt;
&gt; BTW Your 'digging up of old threads' is actually quite clever. Google
&gt; did not want me to reply to this (your) post:
&gt;
&gt; Well, I am considering unsubscribing from alt.org.sierra-club and
&gt; alt.forestry. Much to my disappointment, alt.org.sierra-club is just
&gt; a collection of links and partisan sneers: &quot;It's all the liberals'
&gt; fault! No, It's the Republicans' fault!&quot; and so on.

When I went to school in West Virginia, we had a group called the Wilderness
Co-op. Nothing political at all, we would just do some trail-blazing,
promote recycling, protest teh Corridor H road project (the expansion or
route 33 from Buckhannon to Elkins, that has caused hundreds of car/deer
collions in the past ten years; sucks to be right), etc., but nothing really
political. But all you have to do is mention environmental consciousness and
all of a sudden you are liberal, pinko commies.

In some ways, I have always perceived LotR as somewhat of a parable of
environmental friendliness. That may not have been Tolkien's intention, but
I always feel that the readers's interpretation is more important than that
of the author, at least in the short-term.


Alt.forestry is
&gt; likewise just a collection of Grumpy Old Loggers complaining about
&gt; environmental and federal regulations. I am still searching for a
&gt; forum and/or newsgroup where people can offer practical advice about
&gt; environmental protection and restoration.

The most practical advice I ever heard on such was to do small things. Most
people do nothing, so even small things are appreciated, and if enough
people do enough small things then eventually big things occur. For example,
buy paper products only from companies that purchase from logging companies
that only cull thourgs sustainable forestry methods. I am not trying to
shill for this company, but they do practice the method with their logging
suppliers, and it gives decent explanations of what it is:

<a href="http://www.internationalpaper.com/OurCompany/Environment/EnvironmentalStewardship.html#What%20is%20Sustainable%20ForestryI" target="_blank"> http://www.internationalpaper.com/OurCompany/Environment/Env ironmentalStewardship.html#What%20is%20Sustainable%20Forestr yI</a> like Greenpeace and Sierra, and Earth First, etc., except that they havebecome too self-important and involved with other matters that have nothingto do with the environment, to really do alot of good. More good come from aknowledgeable person, passing it on to others.&gt;&gt; because it was more than 30 days old, so I had to copy/paste it! to&gt; ask: did you manage to find such an environmentally friendly newsgroup?&gt; What is 'sierra' referring to?&gt;&gt; Henriette&gt;

Report this message

#54: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-02 02:49:54 by pseudonimofaqhater

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:

&gt; Oh, I wasn't referring to that. My &quot;history of posters&quot; stuff was before
&gt; Ty appeared. I was intrigued by your speculation that Ty was Russ, but
&gt; unless people actually say they are changing their handle, I tend to
&gt; treat each handle on their own merits. Either that, or you start
&gt; thinking that everyone is everyone else! That way madness lies... :-)
&gt;
&gt; Though I do sometimes wonder about the various handles that, um, post
&gt; 'humorous' material (eg. phone FATS, some of which I do find funny).
&gt; Surely there can't be that many people that can come up with weird stuff
&gt; like that! LOL!

I beg your pardon; my posts are completely serious.

BTW, FATS is now offering special software that will tell you who is
whose sockpuppet. Ever wondered who is really Steuard in a clever
disguise pretending to be a weird right-winger? The answer might
startle you!

Report this message

#55: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-02 07:07:07 by morgothscurse2002

On 27 Jun 2006 22:04:25 GMT, Troels Forchhammer
&lt;<a href="mailto:Troels&#64;ThisIsFake.invalid" target="_blank">Troels&#64;ThisIsFake.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;In message &lt;news:<a href="mailto:fpr2a25ma65bn973akuu5kirid4dfn8h4d&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">fpr2a25ma65bn973akuu5kirid4dfn8h4d&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;
&gt;Morgoth's Curse &lt;<a href="mailto:morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com" target="_blank">morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com</a>&gt; enriched us
&gt;with:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I also wish to assign a title to Larry Swain, but I could not
&gt;&gt; think of the medieval term for a linguist.
&gt;[...]
&gt;&gt; Suggestions would be appreciated. :-)
&gt;
&gt;Alderman -- if necessary 'Alderman of Words'

Ehhh. That term sounds more &quot;political&quot; than &quot;medieval.&quot; The good
news is that I can hardly be blamed for the delay in assigning a title
if this task stumps even our Wise Sage. :-)

Morgoth's Curse

Report this message

#56: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-02 07:46:37 by sbjensen

[Regarding my thesis or dissertation or whatever you want to call it:]

Quoth &quot;Henriette&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:heldenib&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">heldenib&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; in article
&lt;<a href="mailto:1151762693.733829.168740&#64;j8g2000cwa.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1151762693.733829.168740&#64;j8g2000cwa.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;:
&gt; Steuard Jensen schreef:
&gt; &gt; So instead, I decided the title should be &quot;Instantons and Chiral
&gt; &gt; Symmetry in String Theory&quot;.

&gt; Physics, specifically cosmology?

Pure particle physics/quantum gravity, really. (Or as the hecklers
would have it, pure mathematics but without the rigor. :) ) My thesis
doesn't have any direct connection to cosmology, as it happens. If
you're interested, I've written a non-specialists overview of one
piece of my thesis work at

<a href="http://www.slimy.com/~steuard/research/KKmonLoc/" target="_blank">http://www.slimy.com/~steuard/research/KKmonLoc/</a>

I haven't managed to write anything similar for the second chunk of my
thesis work yet; I guess I've been more focused on the thesis
itself. :)

I did work on a cosmology-related project a few years ago, but within
a week or two of finding a cool result about the cosmological constant
I discovered paper from just a couple of months earlier that had
already found the same thing.

&gt; Anyway, thank you for telling me. I have this strange hobby of
&gt; always reading all the PhD thesis titles which are published in one
&gt; of our university papers, though seldom understanding any of it;-)

Interesting. Sometimes titles can be very illuminating even to
non-experts, and sometimes they can be completely obscure to everyone
except one's advisor. I think mine falls somewhere in between.

&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; And finally, I seem to be facing a frustrating medical condition...

&gt; When things get *really* frustrating you can pick up your guitar again,
&gt; on occasion, and sing it out loudly:

&gt; Die die-die! Die die-die die die die-die,
&gt; Die die-die! Die die-die die die die die die-die-die-die die!;-)

:) Now if only those misbehaving cells near my knee would listen!


ObTolkien: I suddenly realize that I have no idea what exactly the
subject of Tolkien's early research was. Did he write a dissertation
or thesis or some such thing?

Steuard Jensen

Report this message

#57: Tolkien's qualifications (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update)

Posted on 2006-07-02 12:55:10 by Christopher Kreuzer

Steuard Jensen &lt;<a href="mailto:sbjensen&#64;midway.uchicago.edu" target="_blank">sbjensen&#64;midway.uchicago.edu</a>&gt; wrote:

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; ObTolkien: I suddenly realize that I have no idea what exactly the
&gt; subject of Tolkien's early research was. Did he write a dissertation
&gt; or thesis or some such thing?

I don't think he did. The closest to such a thing would be the work he
did in his final year studying for his degree, or the work he did in the
years after World War I before he attained a readership at Leeds. It
might be possible to say that his work at the OED and his &quot;A Middle
English Vocabulary&quot; (1922) established his reputation, making such
things as a doctorate unnecessary.

[From school he went straight to Oxford University, where he studied
Classics in his first year, and then switched to English (specialising
in Language). After he gained his degree, he trained as an officer in
the army and saw action in World War I before being invalided home with
trench fever. At the end of the war, he did go back to Oxford looking
for work involving his academic subject. He probably used his academic
contacts, and ended up working as a freelance tutor, and then working on
the Oxford English Dictionary. He then applied for and attained a
position as &quot;Reader&quot; at Leeds University, and that was the start of his
academic career that resulted in him returning to Oxford in 1925 where
he would work for the next 34 years.]

Of course, things were differerent back then, and doing a Masters or PhD
was not as much of a requirement as it is now. There is a little snippet
on this at the end of this entry at a FAQ I found:

<a href="http://www.tolkiensociety.org/faq01.html#awards" target="_blank">http://www.tolkiensociety.org/faq01.html#awards</a>

&quot;On the academic front, Tolkien never &quot;took a Ph.D.&quot; [...] he was too
busy working professionally on the kind of stuff people normally do
Ph.Ds on&quot;

and:

&quot;To the end of his days, Tolkien never applied for a Ph.D., although he
had done work at that level many times over, and held three Professorial
chairs in his life.&quot;

There is a condensed, but very informationally rich, biography here:

<a href="http://www.tolkiensociety.org/tolkien/jessica_jrrt.html#credit" target="_blank"> http://www.tolkiensociety.org/tolkien/jessica_jrrt.html#cred it</a>

From that, you can see his qualifications, titles and awards.

And to quote from a previous post I made about his academic works:

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolkien#Academic_and_other_works" target="_blank"> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolkien#Academic_and_other_work s</a>

A few other academic works appear in the &quot;posthumously published works&quot;
section, and an even more complete list (not just academic) is here:

<a href="http://www.forodrim.org/arda/tbchron.html" target="_blank">http://www.forodrim.org/arda/tbchron.html</a>

Where you can see that Tolkien also wrote a steady stream of review
essays, other essays, and poems in the 1920s.

I guess if he did a thesis or dissertation, it would be on those lists.
But it is not, so he didn't. :-)

But here is a question: if he had ever bothered to apply for a PhD, what
from his academic works would he have submitted as &quot;work demonstrating
the necessary standard to be awarded a doctorate&quot;?

Remembering of course that he did get several doctorates of letters (D.
Litt) for his academic work, and also some honorary D. Litts for his
wider achievements (when he was famous as the author of 'The Lord of the
Rings'). It would be interesting to see the exact wording used when
awarding these degrees - apparently when he got the Belgian equivalent
of a D. Litt. from the university of Liege in 1954, he was introduced as
&quot;the creator of Monsieur Bilbo Baggins&quot;! :-)

Christopher

--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard

Report this message

#58: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-02 13:01:25 by Christopher Kreuzer

Pseudonymus al-Faqha'ter III &lt;<a href="mailto:pseudonimofaqhater&#64;yahoo.com.br" target="_blank">pseudonimofaqhater&#64;yahoo.com.br</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Oh, I wasn't referring to that. My &quot;history of posters&quot; stuff was
&gt;&gt; before Ty appeared. I was intrigued by your speculation that Ty was
&gt;&gt; Russ, but unless people actually say they are changing their handle,
&gt;&gt; I tend to treat each handle on their own merits. Either that, or you
&gt;&gt; start thinking that everyone is everyone else! That way madness
&gt;&gt; lies... :-)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Though I do sometimes wonder about the various handles that, um, post
&gt;&gt; 'humorous' material (eg. phone FATS, some of which I do find funny).
&gt;&gt; Surely there can't be that many people that can come up with weird
&gt;&gt; stuff like that! LOL!
&gt;
&gt; I beg your pardon; my posts are completely serious.

Please accept my grovelling apology!

&gt; BTW, FATS is now offering special software that will tell you who is
&gt; whose sockpuppet. Ever wondered who is really Steuard in a clever
&gt; disguise pretending to be a weird right-winger? The answer might
&gt; startle you!

I'll be careful not to fall on you in my surprise. I didn't realise you
were a squishy Cnidarian!

Report this message

#59: Re: Tolkien's qualifications (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update)

Posted on 2006-07-02 17:39:46 by Graeme Thomas

In article &lt;iCNpg.94766$<a href="mailto:wl.80425&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk" target="_blank">wl.80425&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk</a>&gt;,
Christopher Kreuzer &lt;<a href="mailto:spamgard&#64;blueyonder.co.uk" target="_blank">spamgard&#64;blueyonder.co.uk</a>&gt; writes

&gt;Of course, things were differerent back then, and doing a Masters or PhD
&gt;was not as much of a requirement as it is now. There is a little snippet
&gt;on this at the end of this entry at a FAQ I found:
&gt;
&gt;<a href="http://www.tolkiensociety.org/faq01.html#awards" target="_blank">http://www.tolkiensociety.org/faq01.html#awards</a>
&gt;
&gt;&quot;On the academic front, Tolkien never &quot;took a Ph.D.&quot; [...] he was too
&gt;busy working professionally on the kind of stuff people normally do
&gt;Ph.Ds on&quot;
&gt;
&gt;and:
&gt;
&gt;&quot;To the end of his days, Tolkien never applied for a Ph.D., although he
&gt;had done work at that level many times over, and held three Professorial
&gt;chairs in his life.&quot;

Oxford University doesn't award a PhD; it awards a DPhil instead.

It may have changed recently, but in Tolkien's day he would have been
awarded a B.A. on graduation, and he would have been entitled to get his
M.A. about three years later. I haven't seen any record of him getting
that, but since it was a requirement to hold an M.A. before being
allowed to teach at the University, he must have received it at some
point.

--
Graeme Thomas

Report this message

#60: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-02 18:08:51 by Troels Forchhammer

In message &lt;news:<a href="mailto:71lea2psfs5fh23119g64ndnobahmnog21&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">71lea2psfs5fh23119g64ndnobahmnog21&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;
Morgoth's Curse &lt;<a href="mailto:morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com" target="_blank">morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com</a>&gt; enriched us
with:

&gt; On 27 Jun 2006 22:04:25 GMT, Troels Forchhammer
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:Troels&#64;ThisIsFake.invalid" target="_blank">Troels&#64;ThisIsFake.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt;&gt; Alderman -- if necessary 'Alderman of Words'
&gt;
&gt; Ehhh. That term sounds more &quot;political&quot; than &quot;medieval.&quot;

Sure you don't think of an ombudsman?
&lt;<a href="http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/ombudsman?view=uk" target="_blank">http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/ombudsman?view=uk</a>&gt;

The Alderman was the head of a guild or a village, and has, to me, a
very long tradition behind him (back to early medieval times).
&lt;<a href="http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/alderman?view=uk" target="_blank">http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/alderman?view=uk</a>&gt;
&lt;<a href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=alderman" target="_blank">http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=alderman</a>&gt;

&gt; The good news is that I can hardly be blamed for the delay in
&gt; assigning a title if this task stumps even our Wise Sage. :-)

;-)

My first thought was along the same lines as Öjevind, to use the Latin
'Magister', but thought that, for Larry, something with a more
northerly etymology would be more appropriate ;)

--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is &lt;t.forch(a)email.dk&gt;

They both savoured the strange warm glow of being much
more ignorant than ordinary people, who were only ignorant
of ordinary things.
- Discworld scientists at work, /Equal Rites/ (Terry Pratchett)

Report this message

#61: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-02 19:15:23 by Steve Morrison

Troels Forchhammer wrote:

&gt; My first thought was along the same lines as =D6jevind, to use the Latin
&gt; 'Magister', but thought that, for Larry, something with a more
&gt; northerly etymology would be more appropriate ;)

Perhaps &quot;lore-master&quot; (of words, or something or other)? The new book
/Tolkien and the Ring of Words/ says:

Within fantasy literature, Tokien's coinages and distinctive uses
can be found everywhere. A particularly interesting example is the
word /lore-master/. [...] Tolkien seems to have been the first to
use the word in modern English, although the Middle English form
/lore maistir/ occurs once in the 15th-century poem /Cursor Mundi/.
It has been gratefully taken up by authors looking for for a word
with a more archaic flavour than, say, /expert/, /sage/, or
/storyteller/, [...] The word now occurs frequently in fantasy
writing, e.g. in the name of a whole cycle of novels (1986-98) by
Mike Jefferies, 'Loremasters of Elundium'. (It has also been used
of Tolkien himself: one reviewer of his posthumously published
translation of /Sir Gawain and the Green Knight/, /Pearl/, and /Sir
Orfeo/ said it could be seen as 'the great lore-master's own
farewell'.) However, examples in the /OED/'s files show that the
word has also been widely used in discussions of medieval
scholarship, oral culture, and even ethnobotany. It evidently fills
a gap, and has apparently made its way out beyond the restricted
context of fantasy into more general use.
=20
AFT and RABT ought to be swarming with &quot;lore-masters&quot;, I'd think--

Report this message

#62: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-03 00:00:22 by Count Menelvagor

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
&gt; Pseudonymus al-Faqha'ter III &lt;<a href="mailto:pseudonimofaqhater&#64;yahoo.com.br" target="_blank">pseudonimofaqhater&#64;yahoo.com.br</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt; Christopher Kreuzer wrote:

&gt; &gt; I beg your pardon; my posts are completely serious.
&gt;
&gt; Please accept my grovelling apology!

the insane are ever serious. -- aristotle.

&gt;
&gt; &gt; BTW, FATS is now offering special software that will tell you who is
&gt; &gt; whose sockpuppet. Ever wondered who is really Steuard in a clever
&gt; &gt; disguise pretending to be a weird right-winger? The answer might
&gt; &gt; startle you!
&gt;
&gt; I'll be careful not to fall on you in my surprise. I didn't realise you
&gt; were a squishy Cnidarian!

didn't tolkien say in Letters that jellyfish are evil?

Report this message

#63: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-03 00:22:56 by Troels Forchhammer

In message
&lt;news:<a href="mailto:1151860523.159728.41780&#64;h44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1151860523.159728.41780&#64;h44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com</a>&gt; &quot;Steve
Morrison&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:Geirroeth&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">Geirroeth&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; enriched us with:
&gt;
&gt; Perhaps &quot;lore-master&quot; (of words, or something or other)? The new
&gt; book /Tolkien and the Ring of Words/ says:

Brilliant idea!

&gt; AFT and RABT ought to be swarming with &quot;lore-masters&quot;, I'd
&gt; think--

Which you have, of course, just proven ;)

--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is &lt;t.forch(a)email.dk&gt;

Your theory is crazy, but it's not crazy enough to be true.
- Niels Bohr, to a young physicist

Report this message

#64: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-03 06:09:20 by morgothscurse2002

On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:50:20 GMT, Troels Forchhammer
&lt;<a href="mailto:Troels&#64;ThisIsFake.invalid" target="_blank">Troels&#64;ThisIsFake.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;In message &lt;news:<a href="mailto:fpr2a25ma65bn973akuu5kirid4dfn8h4d&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">fpr2a25ma65bn973akuu5kirid4dfn8h4d&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;
&gt;Morgoth's Curse &lt;<a href="mailto:morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com" target="_blank">morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com</a>&gt; enriched us
&gt;with:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Conrad Dunkerson retains his title as the GOD of the Tolkien
&gt;&gt; newsgroups,
&gt;
&gt;&lt;<a href="http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/god.htm" target="_blank">http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/god.htm</a>&gt;

That was an eerily accurate description of....Michael Martinez! Now
you have got me wondering if there really is any truth to the rumor
that Michael Martinez and Conrad Dunkerson are one and the same! ;-)

Incidentally, according to this website, I am a Kung-Fu Master! ;-)
&gt;
&gt;&gt; The title of WISE SAGE is therefore transferred to the wisest of
&gt;&gt; the many wise sages in AFT/RABT: Troels Forchhammer.
&gt;&gt; Congratulations, Troels.
&gt;&gt;:-)
&gt;
&gt;&lt;insert appropriately smug protestations of unworthiness&gt;
&gt;
&gt;;-)
&gt;
&gt;I am, of course, grateful -- thanks.

You earned it. :-)


&gt;&gt; The fate of our Steward is somewhat problematic.
&gt;
&gt;&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Well done, Steuard!
&gt;
&gt;Clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap!
&gt;
&gt;&gt; &lt; pause to allow a mighty crescendo of applause and cheering
&gt;&gt; to diminish &gt;
&gt;
&gt;Oh, I forgot the cheering -- can I have a little extra time?
&gt;
&gt;&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; it has been decided to forgive Steuard and allow him to retain
&gt;&gt; his title of STEWARD.
&gt;
&gt;And of course the pun is irrestible ;-)

Thanks, but my puns are puny compared to the gems regularly crafted by
TEUNC members. There is just something about TEUNC that makes a
fellow want to pun. :-\

&gt;&gt; Congratulations, Steuard! :-)
&gt;
&gt;Indeed.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; The title of VALIANT WARRIOR now passes to Tar-Elenion.
&gt;&gt; Congratulation, Tar-Elenion! :-)
&gt;
&gt;I would consider 'PROPHET' as also an appropriate title to bestow on
&gt;Tar-Elenion, though possibly a bit cruel (since one must inevitably ask
&gt;oneself, 'a prophet of whom?' &lt;G&gt;)

Prophet = Seer = Morgoth's Curse


&gt;&gt; When I originally began bestowing titles, I conferred the
&gt;&gt; title of RESIDENT GADFLY upon Russ because he was so annoying.
&gt;
&gt;And of course we know that the titles are entirely objective ;-)

Absolutely! If you can't trust Morgoth's Curse to be completely
objective and rational, who can you trust? ;-)


Morgoth's Curse

Report this message

#65: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-03 06:40:43 by morgothscurse2002

On 1 Jul 2006 07:24:30 -0700, &quot;Henriette&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:heldenib&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">heldenib&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;Morgoth's Curse schreef:
&gt;
&gt;BTW Your 'digging up of old threads' is actually quite clever. Google
&gt;did not want me to reply to this (your) post:
&gt;
&gt;Well, I am considering unsubscribing from alt.org.sierra-club and
&gt;alt.forestry. Much to my disappointment, alt.org.sierra-club is just
&gt;a collection of links and partisan sneers: &quot;It's all the liberals'
&gt;fault! No, It's the Republicans' fault!&quot; and so on. Alt.forestry is
&gt;likewise just a collection of Grumpy Old Loggers complaining about
&gt;environmental and federal regulations. I am still searching for a
&gt;forum and/or newsgroup where people can offer practical advice about
&gt;environmental protection and restoration.
&gt;
&gt;because it was more than 30 days old, so I had to copy/paste it! to
&gt;ask: did you manage to find such an environmentally friendly newsgroup?
&gt;What is 'sierra' referring to?
&gt;
&gt;Henriette

The Sierra Club (<a href="http://www.sierraclub.org" target="_blank">http://www.sierraclub.org</a>) is one of the oldest and
largest environmental protection organizations in the world. (&quot;Sierra&quot;
is the Spanish for &quot;mountain range&quot; and refers in this case to the
Sierra Nevada mountains in California. These mountains, which include
Yosemite National Park, were especially beloved by the founder John
Muir.) I have been a member for ten years, but, unfortunately, the
Sierra Club, like most other environmental organizations, tends to
emphasize financial contributions rather than individual action. When
I receive a letter from the Club, it is either a plea for a special
contribution or a reminder that my membership is due to be renewed.
The Club's magazine &quot;Sierra&quot; does offer some practical advice, but I
am seeking a forum where I can ask specific questions about recycling
and other issues. Unfortunately, I have not yet found such a forum.

I removed alt.org.sierra-club from my newsreader, but retained
alt.forestry primarily because those grumpy old loggers occasionally
post fascinating links about trees. :-)

Morgoth's Curse

Report this message

#66: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-03 07:28:51 by morgothscurse2002

On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 01:22:33 GMT, <a href="mailto:sbjensen&#64;midway.uchicago.edu" target="_blank">sbjensen&#64;midway.uchicago.edu</a>
(Steuard Jensen) wrote:

&gt;Quoth Morgoth's Curse &lt;<a href="mailto:morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com" target="_blank">morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com</a>&gt; in article
&gt;&lt;<a href="mailto:fpr2a25ma65bn973akuu5kirid4dfn8h4d&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">fpr2a25ma65bn973akuu5kirid4dfn8h4d&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;:
&gt;&gt; The fate of our Steward is somewhat problematic.
&gt;[...]
&gt;&gt; On the other hand, as Steuard himself has admitted, he has
&gt;&gt; effectively abandoned AFT to off-topic political posts in favor of
&gt;&gt; the more reserved RABT. Bad Steward!
&gt;
&gt;Reently, of course, I've had trouble keeping up with either one.

You can believe that we certainly noticed! ;-)

&gt;Happily, the political insanity level on AFT hasn't
&gt;seemed as bad recently, so I think my earlier reasons for backing off
&gt;from there don't apply as much anymore.

I am just distressed that you were not able to participate in the COTW
discussions. :-\

&gt; Whenever I'm able to get back
&gt;in the swing around here, I'll try to be a benevolent Steward to both
&gt;groups. :)


&gt;
&gt;&gt; In consideration of the extenuating circumstances (i.e. his
&gt;&gt; academic work and the fact that we can't find anybody else to do the
&gt;&gt; job for free), it has been decided to forgive Steuard and allow him to
&gt;&gt; retain his title of STEWARD. Congratulations, Steuard! :-)
&gt;
&gt;Why thank you. :)

You earned it. Your FAQ is, beyond question, the best of any
newsgroup in the Usenet. :-)
&gt;
&gt;I thought I'd take this opportunity to give the groups a very brief
&gt;update on my life at the moment, which includes all sorts of
&gt;extenuating circumstances. First, at long last I'm scheduled to
&gt;defend my Ph.D. thesis two weeks from today. I still have lots of
&gt;work to do to be ready for that, but it's going well and I have no
&gt;doubt of a positive outcome.

Good luck!!!

&gt; Second, I start a job next fall as a
&gt;professor in Claremont, California, where I'll be for the next couple
&gt;of years (before trying to land a tenure-track position). That should
&gt;be fun, though it will keep me busy.

Congratulations! ;-) By the way, whatever happened to that job in
Europe that you were considering?

&gt;And finally, I seem to be facing a frustrating medical condition
&gt;called a &quot;giant cell tumor&quot; in the bone above my right knee. Lots of
&gt;evidence thus far indicates that it's benign (like almost all such
&gt;tumors), but it's fairly big and it's got to come out. The surgery
&gt;will be sometime in July, hopefully not long after my thesis defense.
&gt;Recovery will no doubt be long and painful, but from all I've heard
&gt;people with these things have very good odds of suffering no major ill
&gt;effects in the long term. That doesn't make it any less annoying
&gt;right now, though. I'll let you know how it turns out.

It's an amazing coincidence, but I have the exact same problem above
my right knee. I am not as lucky as you, however. When I asked my
doctor to remove it, all I got was a lecture on the evils of
unnecessary surgery. :-\

You can certain that we all wish you a speedy recovery!!! :-)

Morgoth's Curse

Report this message

#67: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-03 07:36:55 by morgothscurse2002

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 14:47:08 GMT, <a href="mailto:sbjensen&#64;midway.uchicago.edu" target="_blank">sbjensen&#64;midway.uchicago.edu</a>
(Steuard Jensen) wrote:

&gt;It has its good points, certainly. :) But I'll miss the snow (and the
&gt;seasons generally), and Claremont gets hit with rather a lot of the
&gt;Los Angeles area smog. Still, yeah, it'll be nice.

But just think of all fun that you can look forward to, Steuard!
Earthquakes! Santa Ana winds! Tsunamis! Blackouts! Road rage!
Landslides! On the other hand, at least you won't have to listen to
people say &quot;How about them Cubs?&quot; ;-)

Morgoth's Curse

Report this message

#68: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-03 07:45:17 by morgothscurse2002

On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 16:08:51 GMT, Troels Forchhammer
&lt;<a href="mailto:Troels&#64;ThisIsFake.invalid" target="_blank">Troels&#64;ThisIsFake.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;&gt;&gt; Alderman -- if necessary 'Alderman of Words'
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Ehhh. That term sounds more &quot;political&quot; than &quot;medieval.&quot;
&gt;
&gt;Sure you don't think of an ombudsman?
&gt;&lt;<a href="http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/ombudsman?view=uk" target="_blank">http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/ombudsman?view=uk</a>&gt;
&gt;
&gt;The Alderman was the head of a guild or a village, and has, to me, a
&gt;very long tradition behind him (back to early medieval times).
&gt;&lt;<a href="http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/alderman?view=uk" target="_blank">http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/alderman?view=uk</a>&gt;
&gt;&lt;<a href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=alderman" target="_blank">http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=alderman</a>&gt;

That's certainly fascinating. I have always associated &quot;alderman&quot;
with politics because most city council members in the American
Midwest are usually referred to as &quot;alderman.&quot; (They usually
represent a specific section of the city known as a ward.) I never
knew the etymology of the word.

I still don't think it is quite appropriate, however. I am still
considering several alternate titles. :-)

Morgoth's Curse

Report this message

#69: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-03 07:48:19 by morgothscurse2002

On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:53:33 +0200, &quot;Taemon&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl" target="_blank">Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Morgoth's Curse wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; The title of FOOL is now bestowed upon the Flame of the West.
&gt;&gt; Congratulations, Solinas! ; -)
&gt;
&gt;I want some acknowledgement for Tamf, who is still the Fool of the
&gt;Black Club and thereby a better fool than Flame of the West.

Tamf is a dragon and I choose to heed the wisdom of the revered sage
J.R.R. Tolkien: &quot;Never laugh at live dragons.&quot;

Morgoth's Curse

Report this message

#70: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-03 07:51:27 by morgothscurse2002

On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:53:33 +0200, &quot;Taemon&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl" target="_blank">Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Morgoth's Curse wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; The title of FOOL is now bestowed upon the Flame of the West.
&gt;&gt; Congratulations, Solinas! ; -)
&gt;
&gt;I want some acknowledgement for Tamf, who is still the Fool of the
&gt;Black Club and thereby a better fool than Flame of the West.
&gt;
&gt;T, Massster.

Incidentally, I cannot grant your request to be the &quot;mad scientist&quot; of
AFT/RABT, but how do you feel about the title of ALCHEMIST? I presume
that you have a collection of beakers, cauldrons and other tools of
the trade that you can use to concoct unholy substances while you
cackle evilly? ;-)

Morgoth's Curse

Report this message

#71: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-03 08:07:15 by morgothscurse2002

On 1 Jul 2006 06:24:40 -0700, &quot;Henriette&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:heldenib&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">heldenib&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;I am intrigued by that sentence. So Ty was Russ after all, probably;
&gt;but whom didn't we find out? And why would they tell you, even when
&gt;they knew you wouldn't betray their trust?

I seriously doubt that. Russ could be caustic and obstinate, but he
was never stupid whereas Ty was both stupid and mean-spirited. Russ
would have chewed him up, spit him out and used his bones to pick his
teeth.

Morgoth's Curse

Report this message

#72: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-03 08:08:51 by morgothscurse2002

On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 13:52:50 GMT, &quot;Christopher Kreuzer&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:spamgard&#64;blueyonder.co.uk" target="_blank">spamgard&#64;blueyonder.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;It happens. Unless you are in touch by e-mail, you may never find out
&gt;what happened, especially if you don't know someone's real name. Even if
&gt;you are in touch by e-mail, people drift away. That's partly why I like
&gt;history threads and discussions. It gives some context.

This sounds suspiciously like a request for another Posters MIA
thread. ;-)

Morgoth's Curse

Report this message

#73: Re: Tolkien's qualifications (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update)

Posted on 2006-07-03 11:10:56 by Christopher Kreuzer

Graeme Thomas &lt;<a href="mailto:graeme&#64;graemet.demon.co.uk" target="_blank">graeme&#64;graemet.demon.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; In article &lt;iCNpg.94766$<a href="mailto:wl.80425&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk" target="_blank">wl.80425&#64;text.news.blueyonder.co.uk</a>&gt;,
&gt; Christopher Kreuzer &lt;<a href="mailto:spamgard&#64;blueyonder.co.uk" target="_blank">spamgard&#64;blueyonder.co.uk</a>&gt; writes
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Of course, things were differerent back then, and doing a Masters or
&gt;&gt; PhD was not as much of a requirement as it is now. There is a little
&gt;&gt; snippet on this at the end of this entry at a FAQ I found:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; <a href="http://www.tolkiensociety.org/faq01.html#awards" target="_blank">http://www.tolkiensociety.org/faq01.html#awards</a>
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &quot;On the academic front, Tolkien never &quot;took a Ph.D.&quot; [...] he was too
&gt;&gt; busy working professionally on the kind of stuff people normally do
&gt;&gt; Ph.Ds on&quot;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; and:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &quot;To the end of his days, Tolkien never applied for a Ph.D., although
&gt;&gt; he had done work at that level many times over, and held three
&gt;&gt; Professorial chairs in his life.&quot;
&gt;
&gt; Oxford University doesn't award a PhD; it awards a DPhil instead.

Ah. Thanks.

&gt; It may have changed recently, but in Tolkien's day he would have been
&gt; awarded a B.A. on graduation, and he would have been entitled to get
&gt; his M.A. about three years later. I haven't seen any record of him
&gt; getting that, but since it was a requirement to hold an M.A. before
&gt; being allowed to teach at the University, he must have received it at
&gt; some point.

That link I gave mentions it:

<a href="http://www.tolkiensociety.org/tolkien/jessica_jrrt.html#credit" target="_blank"> http://www.tolkiensociety.org/tolkien/jessica_jrrt.html#cred it</a>

&quot;B.A. (honours), 1915, M.A. 1919.&quot;

Told you it was informationally rich! :-)

As for more about Tolkien's academic accomplishments, I recently found
an essay on this by Tom Shippey. But that is more suited to the
&quot;Tolkien's scholarly accomplishments&quot; thread.

Christopher

Report this message

#74: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-03 13:21:28 by Troels Forchhammer

In message &lt;news:<a href="mailto:t9bha25g3p3pqu9ptoslo8nh8jh4ipqvm2&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">t9bha25g3p3pqu9ptoslo8nh8jh4ipqvm2&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;
Morgoth's Curse &lt;<a href="mailto:morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com" target="_blank">morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com</a>&gt; enriched us with:
&gt;
&gt; I have always associated &quot;alderman&quot; with politics because most
&gt; city council members in the American Midwest are usually referred
&gt; to as &quot;alderman.&quot;

Ah, that'll explain it -- I'm afraid that my area of 'saging' doesn't
cover US political titles; all that I know is that there's a president,
governors, senators and the members of the government are not ministers
.. . . ;-) and that might even be wrong

&gt; I still don't think it is quite appropriate, however. I am still
&gt; considering several alternate titles. :-)

I think Steve's suggestion of 'lore-master' is the best I've seen so
far -- and it can be turned into 'master of the lore on XYZ' if you
need several lore-masters.

Taking it in a wholly different direction, you could also consider
awarding the title of philosopher (I know not to whom).

--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is &lt;t.forch(a)email.dk&gt;

People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom
of thought which they avoid.
- Soren Kierkegaard

Report this message

#75: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-03 15:40:31 by Henriette

Christopher Kreuzer schreef:
&gt;
&gt; Oh, I wasn't referring to that. My &quot;history of posters&quot; stuff was before
&gt; Ty appeared. I was intrigued by your speculation that Ty was Russ, but
&gt; unless people actually say they are changing their handle, I tend to
&gt; treat each handle on their own merits. Either that, or you start
&gt; thinking that everyone is everyone else! That way madness lies... :-)
&gt;
Yes, thus far I have also taken everyone at 'face-value', but after
your post I have turned suspicious and I have let some special software
loose on AFT to compare grammar and use of words, to find everyone
out;-)

&gt; Though I do sometimes wonder about the various handles that, um, post
&gt; 'humorous' material (eg. phone FATS, some of which I do find funny).
&gt; Surely there can't be that many people that can come up with weird stuff
&gt; like that! LOL!

Phone FATS, what is that? But you are probably referring to Count
Menelvagor and his many sub-personalities;-) I think it is extremely
funny when they quarrel and somehow always end up trying to get you to
make a donation or to enter your credit card number;-)

Henriette

Report this message

#76: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-03 15:45:08 by Henriette

Pseudonymus al-Faqha'ter III schreef:
&gt;
&gt; BTW, FATS is now offering special software that will tell you who is
&gt; whose sockpuppet. Ever wondered who is really Steuard in a clever
&gt; disguise pretending to be a weird right-winger? The answer might
&gt; startle you!

O, I hadn't seen you are also working with special software to find
everyone out. Well, in that case the truth will soon be revealed,
Pseudonymus al-Faqha'ter!

Henriette

Report this message

#77: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-03 15:55:29 by Henriette

BaJoRi schreef:

&gt; &quot;Henriette&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:heldenib&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">heldenib&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:<a href="mailto:1151763870.602666.6820&#64;v61g2000cwv.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1151763870.602666.6820&#64;v61g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; BTW Your 'digging up of old threads' is actually quite clever. Google
&gt; &gt; did not want me to reply to this (your) post:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Well, I am considering unsubscribing from alt.org.sierra-club and
&gt; &gt; alt.forestry. Much to my disappointment, alt.org.sierra-club is just
&gt; &gt; a collection of links and partisan sneers: &quot;It's all the liberals'
&gt; &gt; fault! No, It's the Republicans' fault!&quot; and so on.

LOL, so you can do it also. This is indeed the post I meant.
&gt;
&gt; In some ways, I have always perceived LotR as somewhat of a parable of
&gt; environmental friendliness. That may not have been Tolkien's intention, but
&gt; I always feel that the readers's interpretation is more important than that
&gt; of the author, at least in the short-term.
&gt;
I think in the LOTR are all the basics of the why of environmental
friendliness

&gt; The most practical advice I ever heard on such was to do small things. Most
&gt; people do nothing, so even small things are appreciated, and if enough
&gt; people do enough small things then eventually big things occur. For example,
&gt; buy paper products only from companies that purchase from logging companies
&gt; that only cull thourgs sustainable forestry methods. I am not trying to
&gt; shill for this company, but they do practice the method with their logging
&gt; suppliers, and it gives decent explanations of what it is:
&gt;
&gt; <a href="http://www.internationalpaper.com/OurCompany/Environment/EnvironmentalStewardship.html#What%20is%20Sustainable%20ForestryI" target="_blank"> http://www.internationalpaper.com/OurCompany/Environment/Env ironmentalStewardship.html#What%20is%20Sustainable%20Forestr yI</a> like Greenpeace and Sierra, and Earth First, etc., except that they havebecome too self-important and involved with other matters that have nothingto do with the environment, to really do alot of good. More good come from aknowledgeable person, passing it on to others.

Small things, yes. Still I would have been happy when the government of
the USA had consented to sign the Kyoto Treaty and would stop the
denial of Global Warming.

Henriette

Report this message

#78: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-03 16:05:10 by Henriette

Morgoth's Curse schreef:
&gt;
&gt; The Sierra Club (<a href="http://www.sierraclub.org" target="_blank">http://www.sierraclub.org</a>) is one of the oldest and
&gt; largest environmental protection organizations in the world. (&quot;Sierra&quot;
&gt; is the Spanish for &quot;mountain range&quot; and refers in this case to the
&gt; Sierra Nevada mountains in California. These mountains, which include
&gt; Yosemite National Park, were especially beloved by the founder John
&gt; Muir.) I have been a member for ten years, but, unfortunately, the
&gt; Sierra Club, like most other environmental organizations, tends to
&gt; emphasize financial contributions rather than individual action.

Aha, like Pseudonymus al-Faqha'ter III;-)

&gt; When
&gt; I receive a letter from the Club, it is either a plea for a special
&gt; contribution or a reminder that my membership is due to be renewed.

LOL, yes, it's the same with the organizations I'm a member of. Still I
recently realised that they don't hear much from me either. It does
work both ways;-)

&gt; The Club's magazine &quot;Sierra&quot; does offer some practical advice, but I
&gt; am seeking a forum where I can ask specific questions about recycling
&gt; and other issues. Unfortunately, I have not yet found such a forum.
&gt;
Maybe you can ask your specific questions here, maybe someone will
know?

&gt; I removed alt.org.sierra-club from my newsreader, but retained
&gt; alt.forestry primarily because those grumpy old loggers occasionally
&gt; post fascinating links about trees. :-)
&gt;
'grumpy old loggers', LOL. But oh, the huge ancient trees I saw in
California, where it took a *while* to walk around one! Redwoods, I
think they were called, but they were cut down incessantly and
ruthlessly. I think someone in the LOTR would have to say a word or two
about that.

Henriette

Report this message

#79: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-03 16:25:55 by Henriette

Steuard Jensen schreef:

&gt; [Regarding my thesis or dissertation or whatever you want to call it:]
&gt;
&gt; Pure particle physics/quantum gravity, really. (Or as the hecklers
&gt; would have it, pure mathematics but without the rigor. :) ) My thesis
&gt; doesn't have any direct connection to cosmology, as it happens. If
&gt; you're interested, I've written a non-specialists overview of one
&gt; piece of my thesis work at
&gt;
&gt; <a href="http://www.slimy.com/~steuard/research/KKmonLoc/" target="_blank">http://www.slimy.com/~steuard/research/KKmonLoc/</a>
&gt;
Beautiful site, but with all due respect not specifically my cup of
tea... 'Extra dimensions' - now that sounds fascinating.

&gt; I haven't managed to write anything similar for the second chunk of my
&gt; thesis work yet; I guess I've been more focused on the thesis
&gt; itself. :)
&gt;
&gt; I did work on a cosmology-related project a few years ago, but within
&gt; a week or two of finding a cool result about the cosmological constant
&gt; I discovered paper from just a couple of months earlier that had
&gt; already found the same thing.
&gt;
Well, that must occasionally be a bit of a problem, not knowing what
your colleagues are researching.

&gt; &gt; Anyway, thank you for telling me. I have this strange hobby of
&gt; &gt; always reading all the PhD thesis titles which are published in one
&gt; &gt; of our university papers, though seldom understanding any of it;-)
&gt;
&gt; Interesting. Sometimes titles can be very illuminating even to
&gt; non-experts, and sometimes they can be completely obscure to everyone
&gt; except one's advisor. I think mine falls somewhere in between.

Yes;-) From todays University paper I quote this funny title: &quot;Low dose
radiotherapy in indolent lympomas. Enough is enough&quot;. here is someone
with a mission! But this is my favorite of the day: &quot;The invivo
function of mSIGNR1. a DC-SIGN homolog&quot;.
&gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; And finally, I seem to be facing a frustrating medical condition...
&gt;
&gt; &gt; When things get *really* frustrating you can pick up your guitar again,
&gt; &gt; on occasion, and sing it out loudly:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Die die-die! Die die-die die die die-die,
&gt; &gt; Die die-die! Die die-die die die die die die-die-die-die die!;-)
&gt;
&gt; :) Now if only those misbehaving cells near my knee would listen!
&gt;
They may, when you annoy them enough they may even decide to get out of
there ASAP!

(Snip on-topic stuff;-)

Henriette

Report this message

#80: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-03 16:30:36 by Henriette

Morgoth's Curse schreef:

&gt; On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 01:22:33 GMT, <a href="mailto:sbjensen&#64;midway.uchicago.edu" target="_blank">sbjensen&#64;midway.uchicago.edu</a>
&gt; (Steuard Jensen) wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt;And finally, I seem to be facing a frustrating medical condition
&gt; &gt;called a &quot;giant cell tumor&quot; in the bone above my right knee. Lots of
&gt; &gt;evidence thus far indicates that it's benign (like almost all such
&gt; &gt;tumors), but it's fairly big and it's got to come out. The surgery
&gt; &gt;will be sometime in July, hopefully not long after my thesis defense.
&gt; &gt;Recovery will no doubt be long and painful, but from all I've heard
&gt; &gt;people with these things have very good odds of suffering no major ill
&gt; &gt;effects in the long term. That doesn't make it any less annoying
&gt; &gt;right now, though. I'll let you know how it turns out.
&gt;
&gt; It's an amazing coincidence, but I have the exact same problem above
&gt; my right knee. I am not as lucky as you, however. When I asked my
&gt; doctor to remove it, all I got was a lecture on the evils of
&gt; unnecessary surgery. :-\
&gt;
An unexpected and unwanted example of synchronicity... Peculiar, that
different surgeons would come up with completely opposing treatments.

&gt; You can certain that we all wish you a speedy recovery!!! :-)

Yes. And all the best to yourself as well, MC!

Henriette

Report this message

#81: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-03 19:08:17 by Taemon

Morgoth's Curse wrote:

&gt; On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:53:33 +0200, &quot;Taemon&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl" target="_blank">Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl</a>&gt;
&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; Morgoth's Curse wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; The title of FOOL is now bestowed upon the Flame of the West.
&gt;&gt;&gt; Congratulations, Solinas! ; -)
&gt;&gt; I want some acknowledgement for Tamf, who is still the Fool of
&gt;&gt; the Black Club and thereby a better fool than Flame of the West.
&gt; Tamf is a dragon and I choose to heed the wisdom of the revered
&gt; sage J.R.R. Tolkien: &quot;Never laugh at live dragons.&quot;

Oh, I don't laugh _at_ her... It's all at the expense of others!

T.

Report this message

#82: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-03 19:09:17 by Taemon

Morgoth's Curse wrote:

&gt; On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:53:33 +0200, &quot;Taemon&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl" target="_blank">Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl</a>&gt;
&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; T, Massster.
&gt; Incidentally, I cannot grant your request to be the &quot;mad
&gt; scientist&quot; of AFT/RABT, but how do you feel about the title of
&gt; ALCHEMIST? I presume that you have a collection of beakers,
&gt; cauldrons and other tools of the trade that you can use to
&gt; concoct unholy substances while you cackle evilly? ;-)

Of course, of course I do. Hm. I could go with that, I guess, but...
why can't I be Mad Scientist, again?

T.

Report this message

#83: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-03 23:28:28 by BaJoRi

&quot;Henriette&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:heldenib&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">heldenib&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1151934929.689735.301510&#64;p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1151934929.689735.301510&#64;p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; BaJoRi schreef:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; &quot;Henriette&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:heldenib&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">heldenib&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt;&gt; news:<a href="mailto:1151763870.602666.6820&#64;v61g2000cwv.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1151763870.602666.6820&#64;v61g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; BTW Your 'digging up of old threads' is actually quite clever. Google
&gt;&gt; &gt; did not want me to reply to this (your) post:
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; Well, I am considering unsubscribing from alt.org.sierra-club and
&gt;&gt; &gt; alt.forestry. Much to my disappointment, alt.org.sierra-club is just
&gt;&gt; &gt; a collection of links and partisan sneers: &quot;It's all the liberals'
&gt;&gt; &gt; fault! No, It's the Republicans' fault!&quot; and so on.
&gt;
&gt; LOL, so you can do it also. This is indeed the post I meant.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; In some ways, I have always perceived LotR as somewhat of a parable of
&gt;&gt; environmental friendliness. That may not have been Tolkien's intention,
&gt;&gt; but
&gt;&gt; I always feel that the readers's interpretation is more important than
&gt;&gt; that
&gt;&gt; of the author, at least in the short-term.
&gt;&gt;
&gt; I think in the LOTR are all the basics of the why of environmental
&gt; friendliness
&gt;
&gt;&gt; The most practical advice I ever heard on such was to do small things.
&gt;&gt; Most
&gt;&gt; people do nothing, so even small things are appreciated, and if enough
&gt;&gt; people do enough small things then eventually big things occur. For
&gt;&gt; example,
&gt;&gt; buy paper products only from companies that purchase from logging
&gt;&gt; companies
&gt;&gt; that only cull thourgs sustainable forestry methods. I am not trying to
&gt;&gt; shill for this company, but they do practice the method with their
&gt;&gt; logging
&gt;&gt; suppliers, and it gives decent explanations of what it is:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; <a href="http://www.internationalpaper.com/OurCompany/Environment/EnvironmentalStewardship.html#What%20is%20Sustainable%20ForestryI" target="_blank"> http://www.internationalpaper.com/OurCompany/Environment/Env ironmentalStewardship.html#What%20is%20Sustainable%20Forestr yI</a>
&gt;&gt; like Greenpeace and Sierra, and Earth First, etc., except that they
&gt;&gt; havebecome too self-important and involved with other matters that have
&gt;&gt; nothingto do with the environment, to really do alot of good. More good
&gt;&gt; come from aknowledgeable person, passing it on to others.
&gt;
&gt; Small things, yes. Still I would have been happy when the government of
&gt; the USA had consented to sign the Kyoto Treaty and would stop the
&gt; denial of Global Warming.
&gt;
&gt; Henriette

Unfortunately, for all its good intent, even had the US signed Kyoto, it is
a worthless thing. As for global warming, the best evidence I have seen that
it is occuring is the thinkness of the Antarctic icecap at the pole, which
is about 20 feet thicker than in 1970. How is this possible with global
warming? Because normally it was too cold for snow most of the year, at the
southern pole. As it is now warmer, it snows more often, causing larger
accumulating deposits.

As for why it is happening, you won't find many people that don't believe it
is happening, but major disagreements as to why. For those that say it is
man-made, there is much proof that volcanic activity causes 100 times more
greenhouse gases per year than humanity's TECHNOLOGY.

The best hypothesis I have heard on the subject involves two things: the
number of people currently living, and the amount of forest in the world.
The amount of forest in the world is virtually the same as when Teddy
Roosevelt was in office (don't dispute it, as it is true. We can talk about
biological diversity some other time, which is the major issue with that
amount of forest). 5 times as many people, surviving on the same amount of
oxygen. Take everything to its logical conclusion. The issue isn't the types
of technology we use (although certainly not helpful, in the big picture it
really isn't much) but rather the overall number of people currently living.
What can we do about that?

Report this message

#84: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-03 23:54:01 by Huan the hound

On 2006-07-03, BaJoRi &lt;<a href="mailto:bajori&#64;cbg.com" target="_blank">bajori&#64;cbg.com</a>&gt; wrote in
&lt;0_fqg.25929$<a href="mailto:ec2.23825&#64;fe12.news.easynews.com" target="_blank">ec2.23825&#64;fe12.news.easynews.com</a>&gt;:

[snip]
&gt;
&gt; As for why it is happening, you won't find many people that don't believe it
&gt; is happening, but major disagreements as to why. For those that say it is
&gt; man-made, there is much proof that volcanic activity causes 100 times more
&gt; greenhouse gases per year than humanity's TECHNOLOGY.
&gt;
That is a good point. It seems to me that we haven't been studying
climate change and its causes nearly long enough to know what is
happening or why. At any rate, there are more than enough good reasons to
eliminate pollution without adding global warming. Developing nations
are so anxious for new business but at what cost? Think of the benzene
pollution in the water supply of Harbin, China. &quot;To get rich is
glorious,&quot; this is true, but will you be there to enjoy it?

--
Huan, the hound of Valinor

Report this message

#85: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-04 01:47:16 by BaJoRi

&quot;Huan the hound&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:huanthehound&#64;netscape.net" target="_blank">huanthehound&#64;netscape.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:Zlgqg.52$<a href="mailto:ek3.0&#64;fe02.lga..." target="_blank">ek3.0&#64;fe02.lga...</a>
&gt; On 2006-07-03, BaJoRi &lt;<a href="mailto:bajori&#64;cbg.com" target="_blank">bajori&#64;cbg.com</a>&gt; wrote in
&gt; &lt;0_fqg.25929$<a href="mailto:ec2.23825&#64;fe12.news.easynews.com" target="_blank">ec2.23825&#64;fe12.news.easynews.com</a>&gt;:
&gt;
&gt; [snip]
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; As for why it is happening, you won't find many people that don't believe
&gt;&gt; it
&gt;&gt; is happening, but major disagreements as to why. For those that say it is
&gt;&gt; man-made, there is much proof that volcanic activity causes 100 times
&gt;&gt; more
&gt;&gt; greenhouse gases per year than humanity's TECHNOLOGY.
&gt;&gt;
&gt; That is a good point. It seems to me that we haven't been studying
&gt; climate change and its causes nearly long enough to know what is
&gt; happening or why. At any rate, there are more than enough good reasons to
&gt; eliminate pollution without adding global warming. Developing nations
&gt; are so anxious for new business but at what cost? Think of the benzene
&gt; pollution in the water supply of Harbin, China. &quot;To get rich is
&gt; glorious,&quot; this is true, but will you be there to enjoy it?
&gt;
&gt; --

If you want to see one of the most terrible cultural crimes ever check out
the documentary on TLC about the Three Gorges Dam. Literally thousands of
archaelogical sites were inundated with water. Temples more than a thousand
years old were lost. Just atrocious.



&gt; Huan, the hound of Valinor

Report this message

#86: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-04 02:18:09 by TT Arvind

Wes =F0u Henriette hal!
&gt;=20
&gt; Small things, yes. Still I would have been happy when the government of
&gt; the USA had consented to sign the Kyoto Treaty and would stop the
&gt; denial of Global Warming.

I would also be happy if the EU-15 actually started talking less and=20
doing more about emissions. They have actually risen for two years in=20
a row now. And if countries like my own started taking the issue=20
seriously.

And that doesn't even take into account the so-called globalisation=20
emissions - that is to say, the emissions in China and elsewhere which=20
are solely attributable to production for Europe and the US (for=20
example, emissions by factories producing goods for export). One=20
preliminary study suggested that as much as 14% of Chinese emissions=20
might fall into this category. It makes something of a mockery of the=20
West's much-touted reductions if all that's happening is that their=20
production is being shifted to China.

--=20
Arvind

Report this message

#87: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-04 04:44:16 by sbjensen

Quoth Troels Forchhammer &lt;<a href="mailto:Troels&#64;ThisIsFake.invalid" target="_blank">Troels&#64;ThisIsFake.invalid</a>&gt; in article
&lt;<a href="mailto:Xns97F4B89B68FB4T.Forch&#64;147.243.37.18" target="_blank">Xns97F4B89B68FB4T.Forch&#64;147.243.37.18</a>&gt;:
&gt; Morgoth's Curse &lt;<a href="mailto:morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com" target="_blank">morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com</a>&gt; [said]:
&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:Troels&#64;ThisIsFake.invalid" target="_blank">Troels&#64;ThisIsFake.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt; Alderman -- if necessary 'Alderman of Words'

&gt; &gt; Ehhh. That term sounds more &quot;political&quot; than &quot;medieval.&quot;

&gt; Sure you don't think of an ombudsman?

No, no... if you'd ever lived in Chicago, the term &quot;alderman&quot; would
sound painfully political to you, too. :) Here, members of the City
Council are called &quot;aldermen&quot;, each representing a particular &quot;ward&quot;
in the city. With few exceptions (including my own alderman,
happily), &quot;alderman&quot; in Chicago also seems to mean &quot;lacky to Mayor
Daley&quot;. Chicago politics ain't pretty.

Steuard Jensen

Report this message

#88: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-04 05:08:44 by sbjensen

Quoth Morgoth's Curse &lt;<a href="mailto:morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com" target="_blank">morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com</a>&gt; in article
&lt;<a href="mailto:smaha21jc746pkr6kjkov904a6o93tog5b&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">smaha21jc746pkr6kjkov904a6o93tog5b&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;:
&gt; (Steuard Jensen) wrote:
&gt; &gt;Quoth Morgoth's Curse &lt;<a href="mailto:morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com" target="_blank">morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com</a>&gt;:

&gt; I am just distressed that you were not able to participate in the
&gt; COTW discussions. :-\

So am I. Those were presumably awesome, and now they're just about
finished.

&gt; &gt;Why thank you. :)

&gt; You earned it. Your FAQ is, beyond question, the best of any
&gt; newsgroup in the Usenet. :-)

That might be going a /little/ far. :) But many thanks for the
compliment nonetheless.

&gt; &gt; Second, I start a job next fall as a professor in Claremont,
&gt; &gt; California

&gt; Congratulations! ;-) By the way, whatever happened to that job in
&gt; Europe that you were considering?

I looked into a few European possibilities, but none of them ended up
working out in the end. In any case, I'm quite pleased with how
things have ended up.

&gt; &gt;And finally, I seem to be facing a frustrating medical condition
&gt; &gt;called a &quot;giant cell tumor&quot; in the bone above my right knee.

&gt; It's an amazing coincidence, but I have the exact same problem above
&gt; my right knee.

Seriously? That's pretty incredible; the websites I've seen indicated
that these things only hit roughly one in a million people. I guess
the Tolkien newsgroups are just full of awfully unique individuals. :)

If you're at all interested in sharing details, I'd love to hear them
(either here or over email).. How big is your tumor? How long have
you been aware that something was going on? What are your symptoms?
How was it finally diagnosed? :)

(And in the interests of fair disclosure, my answers are: 1) Roughly
6.5 cm by 4.5 cm: on the large end. 2) A bit over six months. 3)
Tenderness to the touch at a particular point on the side of the knee
as well as pain during a variety of everyday uses including walking,
as well as swelling that wasn't bad at first but that increased over
time. 4) X-rays and some very vivid pictures on an MRI a few weeks
ago.)

&gt; I am not as lucky as you, however. When I asked my doctor to remove
&gt; it, all I got was a lecture on the evils of unnecessary surgery.
&gt; :-\

That really surprises me. My understanding was that these things are
quite aggressive when compared to other benign tumors. Left
unchecked, I believe that mine would just keep growing and eventually
eat away enough of my thigh bone to weaken it and cause a major
fracture (I already showed signs of a small fracture starting on my
X-ray). And of course, the earlier you find it and remove it, the
better your odds of not having nasty complications later.

But I'm obviously not a doctor, so perhaps there are more variations
on the &quot;giant cell tumor&quot; theme than I've learned about. (Mine is a
&quot;giant cell tumor of the bone&quot;, in particular; is yours also in the
bone, or is it in soft tissue? That could be the difference...) In
any case, my best wishes to you, too. If the thing starts to cause
you pain or impact your lift, I'd probably look for a second opinion.
(I'm awfully lucky to work right next to the University of Chicago
Hospitals, I know!)

&gt; You can certain that we all wish you a speedy recovery!!! :-)

Many thanks.
Steuard Jensen

Report this message

#89: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-04 09:25:06 by Troels Forchhammer

In message &lt;news:4Ckqg.1$<a href="mailto:45.309&#64;news.uchicago.edu" target="_blank">45.309&#64;news.uchicago.edu</a>&gt;
<a href="mailto:sbjensen&#64;midway.uchicago.edu" target="_blank">sbjensen&#64;midway.uchicago.edu</a> (Steuard Jensen) enriched us with:
&gt;

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; No, no... if you'd ever lived in Chicago, the term &quot;alderman&quot;
&gt; would sound painfully political to you, too. :) Here, members of
&gt; the City Council are called &quot;aldermen&quot;, each representing a
&gt; particular &quot;ward&quot; in the city.

That's abuse of a perfectly innocent word, that is ;)

Of course, calling them Wardens would have created a problem here in
relation to both the Fairbairns and poor Háma.

The Danish 'Oldermand' is, AFAIK, only used for the leader of a
guild of master craftsmen or for the chairman of a village 'thing'
(the assembly of the village households). Of course not completely
without political connotations, but certainly not in the modern
sense of 'career politics' (which is, I think, also the sense
Tolkien intended when he wrote that 'Denethor /was/ tainted with
mere politics').

Of course 'Alderman' means basically the same as 'Elder' (where the
gender is implicit -- it /is/ a term of respect, after all &lt;EG&gt;),
which sounds, to me, strongly religious.

&gt; With few exceptions (including my own alderman, happily),
&gt; &quot;alderman&quot; in Chicago also seems to mean &quot;lacky to Mayor Daley&quot;.
&gt; Chicago politics ain't pretty.

Hah! That just goes to show that you're not any different from the
rest of us . . . ;) Eh . . .? Was it you or us Europeans who where
supposed to be arrogant -- I can't quite remember? (I really have
to try harder to get these things right. One has, I'm sure,
prejudices to live up to).

&lt;/sarcasm&gt;

--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is &lt;t.forch(a)email.dk&gt;

And he that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left
the path of wisdom.
- Gandalf, /The Fellowship of the Ring/ (J.R.R. Tolkien)

Report this message

#90: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-04 13:40:17 by samdekat

BaJoRi wrote:
&gt;
&gt; As for why it is happening, you won't find many people that don't believe it
&gt; is happening, but major disagreements as to why.

Not among scientists. The reason is that there is no objective
objection, merely philosophical and emotional ones - there are a great
many people in denial.


&gt; For those that say it is
&gt; man-made, there is much proof that volcanic activity causes 100 times more
&gt; greenhouse gases per year than humanity's TECHNOLOGY.
&gt;

What a pity that once again you fail basic research 101 -
<a href="http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/Gases/man.html" target="_blank">http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/Gases/man.html</a>

In other words - it's closer to the opposite - humans the biggest
contributor of greenhouse gases (taking into account uncertainty
factors).

Report this message

#91: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-04 18:35:24 by BaJoRi

&quot;Sam's the little guy&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:samdekat&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">samdekat&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1152013217.154105.95790&#64;j8g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1152013217.154105.95790&#64;j8g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;
&gt; BaJoRi wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; As for why it is happening, you won't find many people that don't believe
&gt;&gt; it
&gt;&gt; is happening, but major disagreements as to why.
&gt;
&gt; Not among scientists. The reason is that there is no objective
&gt; objection, merely philosophical and emotional ones - there are a great
&gt; many people in denial.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; For those that say it is
&gt;&gt; man-made, there is much proof that volcanic activity causes 100 times
&gt;&gt; more
&gt;&gt; greenhouse gases per year than humanity's TECHNOLOGY.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; What a pity that once again you fail basic research 101 -
&gt; <a href="http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/Gases/man.html" target="_blank">http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/Gases/man.html</a>
&gt;
&gt; In other words - it's closer to the opposite - humans the biggest
&gt; contributor of greenhouse gases (taking into account uncertainty
&gt; factors).
&gt;

<a href="http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/cause.htm" target="_blank">http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/cause.htm</a>
<a href="http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/carbon.htm" target="_blank">http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/carbon.htm</a>
<a href="http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/" target="_blank">http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/</a>

Once again, in some inane attempt to try and best me (though it never seems
to work, except to dullards like yourself) you eschew scientific fact for
what has been spoon-fed to you by Al Gore and those who would use
environmental causes for political purposes, and not base everything on pure
science. The number contributed by Humans annually is about 3.4% (not an
insignificant number, true. But small in the big scheme of things) Enjoy the
links, MAYBE you will learn something (but knowing you, I doubt it).

By the way, just to give you a teaser, in the number you quoted against
volcanoes, they are including the amount of gases produced by cows, because
man eats cows. Therefore, man should be blamed for farting cows. Another
brilliant piece of logic you follow.

Report this message

#92: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-04 22:05:02 by Raven

&quot;Morgoth's Curse&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com" target="_blank">morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com</a>&gt; skrev i en meddelelse
news:<a href="mailto:fpr2a25ma65bn973akuu5kirid4dfn8h4d&#64;4ax.com..." target="_blank">fpr2a25ma65bn973akuu5kirid4dfn8h4d&#64;4ax.com...</a>

&gt; It was a mighty duel in strange Scandinavian tongues, but
&gt; ultimately Ojevind Lang prevailed over his arch-rival Raven to retain
&gt; his title of BARBARIAN KING. Congratulations, Ojevind! (I should
&gt; advise you to be vigilant, however, as I do not doubt that even now
&gt; Raven is sharpening his command of Scandinavian languages as well as
&gt; his axes with the intent of seizing your crown.)

I never wanted to be a barbarian *king*. Barbarian suffices for me. And
if the King tries to command me så knuller jeg enken hans ganske blidt og
nennsomt.
BTW, if command of Scand is what makes a Barbarian King, then there is
another contestant. But he is so mild-mannered that I don't think he
qualifies for *barbarian* king. He be king, I barbarian and Öje be both.

&gt; On the other hand, as Steuard himself has admitted, he has
&gt; effectively abandoned AFT to off-topic political posts in favor of the
&gt; more reserved RABT. Bad Steward!

It could be worse. Far worse. He has downshunted his involvement here
in favour of scientific pursuit. Had he done so in favour of joining
pollerticks (ie. a career ultimately of telling people what to do - a
necessary task in a complex society such as ours, but let's have an eye on
them pollertishuns) or otherwise crossing the species barrier from Homo
Sapiens to Homo Loquens or Homo Clamans, then he would truly deserve his

&gt; &lt; SPANK &gt;

&gt; Russ has been absent from the Tolkien newsgroups far too
&gt; frequently and for far too much time. He is stripped of his title,
&gt; demoted to the rank of MAN-AT-ARMS and sentenced to be flogged for his
&gt; insolence. The title CAPTAIN OF THE GUARDS now passes to Raven.
&gt; Congratulations, Raven! :-) As a reward for your steady
&gt; participation and intriguing posts of the past year, you may choose
&gt; how many lashes Russ shall receive.

None. If he is to receive punishment, it shall be to translate the Latin
word &quot;cunnus&quot; into English on the blackboard. He, together with Flame, some
time ago voiced a very strong dislike for the English word when I used it.

&gt; The miserable wretch known as Meneldil/TT Arvind has committed
&gt; the unpardonable sin of failing to post the Top 10 lists. He is
&gt; stripped of his title and a curse is placed upon him. Henceforth, he
&gt; shall be tormented by an irresistible urge to study obscure ancient
&gt; Polynesian languages.

To the Sky-Friend, is this punishment? Only if he has the urge and
cannot.

&gt; The late and irreplaceable Softrat has been posthumously awarded
&gt; the title of the official OGRE of AFT/RABT. I am sure that he would
&gt; have been pleased or, at the least, would have had a wittily sarcastic
&gt; comment. You will always be missed, Softie! :-(

Indeed irreplaceable. Anyone who makes the attempt is quite punishable.

Eware.

Report this message

#93: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-04 22:40:34 by Count Menelvagor

Henriette wrote:
&gt; Christopher Kreuzer schreef:
&gt; &gt;

&gt; &gt; Though I do sometimes wonder about the various handles that, um, post
&gt; &gt; 'humorous' material (eg. phone FATS, some of which I do find funny).
&gt; &gt; Surely there can't be that many people that can come up with weird stuff
&gt; &gt; like that! LOL!
&gt;
&gt; Phone FATS, what is that? But you are probably referring to Count
&gt; Menelvagor and his many sub-personalities;-) I think it is extremely
&gt; funny when they quarrel and somehow always end up trying to get you to
&gt; make a donation or to enter your credit card number;-)

we strenuously deny it. what's your social security number?

Report this message

#94: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-05 09:15:30 by Christopher Kreuzer

BaJoRi &lt;<a href="mailto:bajori&#64;cbg.com" target="_blank">bajori&#64;cbg.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; Therefore, man should be blamed for farting cows.

Of course they should.

&gt; Another brilliant piece of logic you follow.

I was more interested in the difference between the sites you both
quotes (neither of which I have visited). But from the names it can be
seen that one is an educational establishment - at a guess, University
of North D&lt;something&gt; - and one is a popular science website:
junkscience.com

So, at face value, I would investigate further to see what is causing
the discrepancy you point out.

Report this message

#95: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-05 15:11:59 by samdekat

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
&gt; BaJoRi &lt;<a href="mailto:bajori&#64;cbg.com" target="_blank">bajori&#64;cbg.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Therefore, man should be blamed for farting cows.
&gt;
&gt; Of course they should.
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Another brilliant piece of logic you follow.
&gt;
&gt; I was more interested in the difference between the sites you both
&gt; quotes (neither of which I have visited). But from the names it can be
&gt; seen that one is an educational establishment - at a guess, University
&gt; of North D&lt;something&gt; - and one is a popular science website:
&gt; junkscience.com
&gt;

Also of interest is other commentary on that particular site

<a href="http://www.info-pollution.com/milloy.htm" target="_blank">http://www.info-pollution.com/milloy.htm</a>


and its owner and operator Steven Milloy. Who is Steven Milloy?

<a href="http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Steven_Milloy" target="_blank">http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Steven_Milloy</a>
<a href="http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/esthag-w/2005/may/business/pt_junkscience.html" target="_blank"> http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/esthag-w/2005/may/bus iness/pt_junkscience.html</a>
<a href="http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/1999Q4/avery.html#milloy" target="_blank">http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/1999Q4/avery.html#milloy</a>

&lt;quoth&gt;
&quot;though he claims to trumpet &quot;sound science,&quot; he has savagely attacked
the world's most prestigious scientific journals including Science,
Nature, the Lancet, and the New England Journal of Medicine. His
chutzpah recently reached new lows with the posting (removed after
complaints) of an &quot;Obituary of the Day&quot; that gloated over the death of
former NIH environmental scientist David Rall, who was killed in a car
crash.&quot;
&lt;/quoth&gt;

Here is an article by climatologists cutting a swathe through the
Milloys assertions (which, as we see above, are made on behalf of and
sponsored by industry)

<a href="http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=22" target="_blank">http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=22</a>

Moral of the story - don't just post the top link from a search in
Google.

Report this message

#96: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-05 15:45:16 by BaJoRi

&quot;Sam's the little guy&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:samdekat&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">samdekat&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1152105119.612201.91800&#64;m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1152105119.612201.91800&#64;m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;
&gt; Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
&gt;&gt; BaJoRi &lt;<a href="mailto:bajori&#64;cbg.com" target="_blank">bajori&#64;cbg.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; Therefore, man should be blamed for farting cows.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Of course they should.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; Another brilliant piece of logic you follow.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I was more interested in the difference between the sites you both
&gt;&gt; quotes (neither of which I have visited). But from the names it can be
&gt;&gt; seen that one is an educational establishment - at a guess, University
&gt;&gt; of North D&lt;something&gt; - and one is a popular science website:
&gt;&gt; junkscience.com
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Also of interest is other commentary on that particular site
&gt;
&gt; <a href="http://www.info-pollution.com/milloy.htm" target="_blank">http://www.info-pollution.com/milloy.htm</a>
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; and its owner and operator Steven Milloy. Who is Steven Milloy?
&gt;
&gt; <a href="http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Steven_Milloy" target="_blank">http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Steven_Milloy</a>
&gt; <a href="http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/esthag-w/2005/may/business/pt_junkscience.html" target="_blank"> http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/esthag-w/2005/may/bus iness/pt_junkscience.html</a>
&gt; <a href="http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/1999Q4/avery.html#milloy" target="_blank">http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/1999Q4/avery.html#milloy</a>

Here is where things go: you, as normal, stick with Dogma and what is spoon
fed to you by the media, and those whom you choose to ass-kiss (because it
is much easier than thinking for yourself). I mean, really, heaven forbod
that there are people out there who acvtually disagree with Al Gore. Did you
actually read what was written? Could you understand it? I will put my two
decades of envornmental activism againsst your sheep-like bealting any day.


&gt;
&gt; &lt;quoth&gt;
&gt; &quot;though he claims to trumpet &quot;sound science,&quot; he has savagely attacked
&gt; the world's most prestigious scientific journals including Science,
&gt; Nature, the Lancet, and the New England Journal of Medicine. His
&gt; chutzpah recently reached new lows with the posting (removed after
&gt; complaints) of an &quot;Obituary of the Day&quot; that gloated over the death of
&gt; former NIH environmental scientist David Rall, who was killed in a car
&gt; crash.&quot;
&gt; &lt;/quoth&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Here is an article by climatologists cutting a swathe through the
&gt; Milloys assertions (which, as we see above, are made on behalf of and
&gt; sponsored by industry)
&gt;
&gt; <a href="http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=22" target="_blank">http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=22</a>
&gt;
&gt; Moral of the story - don't just post the top link from a search in
&gt; Google.
&gt;


The herd is leaving...you may want to catch up.

Report this message

#97: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-05 17:36:48 by Henriette

BaJoRi schreef:

&gt; Unfortunately, for all its good intent, even had the US signed Kyoto, it is
&gt; a worthless thing.

Here I must disagree. It would have been wonderful when the world's
greatest polluter had done more than just symbolically sign a Treaty a
department of the UN had come up with after thorough investigations.

&gt; As for global warming, the best evidence I have seen that
&gt; it is occuring is the thinkness of the Antarctic icecap at the pole, which
&gt; is about 20 feet thicker than in 1970. How is this possible with global
&gt; warming? Because normally it was too cold for snow most of the year, at the
&gt; southern pole. As it is now warmer, it snows more often, causing larger
&gt; accumulating deposits.
&gt;
&gt; As for why it is happening, you won't find many people that don't believe it
&gt; is happening,

That is only since relatively recent. (a few years. I still own many
articles as late as from 2004 relating to Global Warming in terms of
fraud.)

&gt; but major disagreements as to why. For those that say it is
&gt; man-made, there is much proof that volcanic activity causes 100 times more
&gt; greenhouse gases per year than humanity's TECHNOLOGY.

I've also read in an article from the English Telegraph it is because
the Sun is shining more brightly than it has at any time during the
last 1000 years. (No joke).

Well, probably it depends whom you wish to believe. I believe them:

<a href="http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science/Fingerprints.html" target="_blank"> http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science/Fingerprints.ht ml</a>
&gt;
&gt; The best hypothesis I have heard on the subject involves two things: the
&gt; number of people currently living, and the amount of forest in the world.
&gt; The amount of forest in the world is virtually the same as when Teddy
&gt; Roosevelt was in office (don't dispute it

That is a dangerous remark in a newsgroup.

&gt;, as it is true. We can talk about
&gt; biological diversity some other time, which is the major issue with that
&gt; amount of forest). 5 times as many people, surviving on the same amount of
&gt; oxygen. Take everything to its logical conclusion. The issue isn't the types
&gt; of technology we use (although certainly not helpful, in the big picture it
&gt; really isn't much) but rather the overall number of people currently living.
&gt; What can we do about that?

I seriously doubt that too. It is not amount of people that live, it is
the way in which they choose to live.

Henriette

Report this message

#98: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-05 18:00:33 by Henriette

TT Arvind wrote:

&gt; I would also be happy if the EU-15 actually started talking less and
&gt; doing more about emissions. They have actually risen for two years in
&gt; a row now.

Very true, but paying lip-service, signing the Treaty and setting out a
time-line is a tiny start.

&gt; And if countries like my own started taking the issue
&gt; seriously.
&gt;
&gt; And that doesn't even take into account the so-called globalisation
&gt; emissions - (snip explanation).

Well indeed, we sort of 'tend to forget' about these.

Iniyarutti

Report this message

#99: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-05 18:12:33 by BaJoRi

&quot;Henriette&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:heldenib&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">heldenib&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1152113808.062380.184190&#64;m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1152113808.062380.184190&#64;m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; BaJoRi schreef:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Unfortunately, for all its good intent, even had the US signed Kyoto, it
&gt;&gt; is
&gt;&gt; a worthless thing.
&gt;
&gt; Here I must disagree. It would have been wonderful when the world's
&gt; greatest polluter had done more than just symbolically sign a Treaty a
&gt; department of the UN had come up with after thorough investigations.

Well, for once Sam made an astute observation (or was it someone else? I
would never believe that Sam could say anything intelligent, yet I am faced
with that possibility), India and China are much more inviolved with
pollutant creation activity, and will double pollutants annually for the
next few years, projected. ANy gains that might be realized by Kyoto, and I
truly belioeve that there wouldn't be any such benefit, would be immediately
offset by China and India, and in fact there will be even more pollutants in
the atmosphere, due to those countries.

&gt;
&gt;&gt; As for global warming, the best evidence I have seen that
&gt;&gt; it is occuring is the thinkness of the Antarctic icecap at the pole,
&gt;&gt; which
&gt;&gt; is about 20 feet thicker than in 1970. How is this possible with global
&gt;&gt; warming? Because normally it was too cold for snow most of the year, at
&gt;&gt; the
&gt;&gt; southern pole. As it is now warmer, it snows more often, causing larger
&gt;&gt; accumulating deposits.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; As for why it is happening, you won't find many people that don't believe
&gt;&gt; it
&gt;&gt; is happening,
&gt;
&gt; That is only since relatively recent. (a few years. I still own many
&gt; articles as late as from 2004 relating to Global Warming in terms of
&gt; fraud.)
&gt;
&gt;&gt; but major disagreements as to why. For those that say it is
&gt;&gt; man-made, there is much proof that volcanic activity causes 100 times
&gt;&gt; more
&gt;&gt; greenhouse gases per year than humanity's TECHNOLOGY.
&gt;
&gt; I've also read in an article from the English Telegraph it is because
&gt; the Sun is shining more brightly than it has at any time during the
&gt; last 1000 years. (No joke).

Close. The actual scientific explanation is that there is more sunspot
activity,, and the outside edges of a sunspot are much hotter than the
surrounding sun surface, which gets translated to a little more heat
generation towards the earth. sort of like the flame of a match: the hottest
temperature does not come from the flame, but from that flames corona. They
also did a correlation of sunspot activity versus temperature over the past
50 years, and there does seem to be a lsight elevation in temp when there is
more activity, and lower temps when there is less (such as the beginnings of
the seventies, when global cooling was touted as a major concern).




&gt;
&gt; Well, probably it depends whom you wish to believe. I believe them:
&gt;
&gt; <a href="http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science/Fingerprints.html" target="_blank"> http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science/Fingerprints.ht ml</a>
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; The best hypothesis I have heard on the subject involves two things: the
&gt;&gt; number of people currently living, and the amount of forest in the world.
&gt;&gt; The amount of forest in the world is virtually the same as when Teddy
&gt;&gt; Roosevelt was in office (don't dispute it
&gt;
&gt; That is a dangerous remark in a newsgroup.

But it is s true statement. The issue is bio-diversity. For example, I am a
strip-mining company. I mine 10,000 acres worth, and by law must pay for the
re-planting of trees (twice as many trees as I clear, by the way - sounds
great, until you read the rest of this paragraph) and such BEFORE I start
mining. So, I strip out huge swaths of oak, and cherry, and maple, etc. I
then plant Douglas Fir. Everywhere. Nothing else. Why? Douglas Firs are
quick growing, cheap, easy to grow and farmk, and then they hope to cull
those trees later, to sell for paper production. Loss of bio-diversity, and
is one of the most pressing issues today, though no one knows it in the
general public.

And by the way, during his presidency, half of the areas set aside as
national forest by Teddy were already deforested, and have only grown back
in the past 50 years.


&gt;
&gt;&gt;, as it is true. We can talk about
&gt;&gt; biological diversity some other time, which is the major issue with that
&gt;&gt; amount of forest). 5 times as many people, surviving on the same amount
&gt;&gt; of
&gt;&gt; oxygen. Take everything to its logical conclusion. The issue isn't the
&gt;&gt; types
&gt;&gt; of technology we use (although certainly not helpful, in the big picture
&gt;&gt; it
&gt;&gt; really isn't much) but rather the overall number of people currently
&gt;&gt; living.
&gt;&gt; What can we do about that?
&gt;
&gt; I seriously doubt that too. It is not amount of people that live, it is
&gt; the way in which they choose to live.

The total amount of greenhouse gases produced by human technology is only
3.4% of the total produced every year. Not as much as those who are
politically motivated would have you believe. It isn't an insignificant
number by any stretch (but hardly enough to cause the current global
warming), but as far as human pollution goes there are so many more things
that humanity could work on easily enough (lead and mercury come most
quickly to mind) that we can control much more easily than the entirety of
greenhouse emissions.


&gt;
&gt; Henriette
&gt;

Report this message

#100: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-05 18:24:47 by Derek Broughton

Henriette wrote:

&gt; TT Arvind wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I would also be happy if the EU-15 actually started talking less and
&gt;&gt; doing more about emissions. They have actually risen for two years in
&gt;&gt; a row now.

Only two? Canada's increases in emissions haven't even started slowing down
since we signed Kyoto.
&gt;
&gt; Very true, but paying lip-service, signing the Treaty and setting out a
&gt; time-line is a tiny start.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; And if countries like my own started taking the issue
&gt;&gt; seriously.
&gt;&gt;
If only...
--
derek

Report this message

#101: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-06 00:52:04 by TT Arvind

Wes =F0u Raven hal!
&gt; I never wanted to be a barbarian *king*. Barbarian suffices for me. =
And
&gt; if the King tries to command me s=E5 knuller jeg enken hans ganske blidt =
og
&gt; nennsomt.

Erk. Veldig... h=F8visk.

--=20
Arnvid

Report this message

#102: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-06 12:45:42 by samdekat

BaJoRi wrote:
&gt; &quot;Sam's the little guy&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:samdekat&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">samdekat&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Also of interest is other commentary on that particular site
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; <a href="http://www.info-pollution.com/milloy.htm" target="_blank">http://www.info-pollution.com/milloy.htm</a>
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; and its owner and operator Steven Milloy. Who is Steven Milloy?
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; <a href="http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Steven_Milloy" target="_blank">http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Steven_Milloy</a>
&gt; &gt; <a href="http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/esthag-w/2005/may/business/pt_junkscience.html" target="_blank"> http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/esthag-w/2005/may/bus iness/pt_junkscience.html</a>
&gt; &gt; <a href="http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/1999Q4/avery.html#milloy" target="_blank">http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/1999Q4/avery.html#milloy</a>
&gt;
&gt; Here is where things go: you, as normal, stick with Dogma and what is spoon
&gt; fed to you by the media

- Ironic, given that you posted from a website run by an oil company
shill and correspondent for FOX news.


&gt; and those whom you choose to ass-kiss (because it
&gt; is much easier than thinking for yourself). I mean, really, heaven forbod
&gt; that there are people out there who acvtually disagree with Al Gore.
&gt; Did you
&gt; actually read what was written? Could you understand it?

I understood it for what it was - advertising for Exxon Mobil. Let's
review the status of this discussion:


You asserted:
&quot;For those that say it is
man-made, there is much proof that volcanic activity causes 100 times
more
greenhouse gases per year than humanity's TECHNOLOGY. &quot;


I posted the ACTUAL volume of geenhouse gases from anthropogenic
causes, veruss volcanoes:

CO2
&quot;Gerlach (1991) estimated a total global release of 3-4 x 10E12 mol/yr
from volcanoes. This is a conservative estimate. Man-made
(anthropogenic) CO2 emissions overwhelm this estimate by at least 150
times.&quot;

Gasesous forms of Sulfur
&quot;Volcanoes and other natural processes release approximately 24 Tg of
sulfur to the atmosphere each year. Thus, volcanoes are responsible for
43% of the total natural S flux each year. Man's activities add about
79 Tg sulfur to the atmosphere each year. In an average year, volcanoes
release only 13% of the sulfur added to the atmosphere compared to
anthropogenic sources. &quot;

[<a href="http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/Gases/man.html" target="_blank">http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/Gases/man.html</a> ]

You posted:
Irrelevant commentary from a FOX news presenter who is is the payroll
of Exxon Mobil.
<a href="http://www.prwatch.org/node/4405" target="_blank">http://www.prwatch.org/node/4405</a>

Note that in the three pages you quoted,

<a href="http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/cause.htm" target="_blank">http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/cause.htm</a>
<a href="http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/carbon.htm" target="_blank">http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/carbon.htm</a>
<a href="http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/" target="_blank">http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/</a>

No mention is made of volcanic activity outperforming modern
anthropogenic activity in greenhouse gas production. I guess you're on
your own.


&gt; I will put my two
&gt; decades of envornmental activism againsst your sheep-like bealting any day.
&gt;
&gt;

Right. You want to counter the weight of scientific evidence with
assertions about how trustworthy and knowledgeable you are. Might I
point out the obvious: you expressed confidence in the notion that
Nelson Mandela was a murderer - you were comprehensively proven wrong:

<a href="http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/msg/5ac5e65e77022847" target="_blank"> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/msg/5ac5e65e7 7022847</a>

You were also confident that the massacre at Deir Yassin was an Isreali
conspiracy: you were comprehensively proven wrong:
<a href="http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/msg/8f5213464f370f84" target="_blank"> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/msg/8f5213464 f370f84</a>

You were confident that I participated in a discussion about Mohammads
sexual practices - you were comprehensively proven wrong:
<a href="http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/msg/4985c50748fd9c9d" target="_blank"> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/msg/4985c5074 8fd9c9d</a>

So, in conclusion, relying on your reputation might not be the way to
go - meanign you have to answer specifically: what PROOF can you
provide for your assertion:

&quot;For those that say it is
man-made, there is much proof that volcanic activity causes 100 times
more
greenhouse gases per year than humanity's TECHNOLOGY. &quot;

We're waiting.

Report this message

#103: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-06 15:08:26 by BaJoRi

&quot;Sam's the little guy&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:samdekat&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">samdekat&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1152182742.359298.176580&#64;m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1152182742.359298.176580&#64;m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;
&gt; BaJoRi wrote:
&gt;&gt; &quot;Sam's the little guy&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:samdekat&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">samdekat&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; Also of interest is other commentary on that particular site
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; <a href="http://www.info-pollution.com/milloy.htm" target="_blank">http://www.info-pollution.com/milloy.htm</a>
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; and its owner and operator Steven Milloy. Who is Steven Milloy?
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; <a href="http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Steven_Milloy" target="_blank">http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Steven_Milloy</a>
&gt;&gt; &gt; <a href="http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/esthag-w/2005/may/business/pt_junkscience.html" target="_blank"> http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/esthag-w/2005/may/bus iness/pt_junkscience.html</a>
&gt;&gt; &gt; <a href="http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/1999Q4/avery.html#milloy" target="_blank">http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/1999Q4/avery.html#milloy</a>
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Here is where things go: you, as normal, stick with Dogma and what is
&gt;&gt; spoon
&gt;&gt; fed to you by the media
&gt;
&gt; - Ironic, given that you posted from a website run by an oil company
&gt; shill and correspondent for FOX news.

&lt;SIGH&gt; I just love how you have to indulge in a herd mentality, cause it
makes you feel special. Here's the deal: you keep pretending you know of
what you speak, and I will keep laughing at you.

Here are a couple facts for you:

Farting cows is not man-made.
Hybrid cars are not good for the planet, as currently processed in their
life cycles.
Only 3.4% of so-called greenhouse gases are generated by mans technology.

Live with it. Deny it. Accept it. I don't care.I have had enough of you
denying reality in thread after thread. If you want to start actually being
educated about the subject, go to Google and research the effect of mans
POPULATION (the cat of so many people breathing), not technology, on the
atmposphere.

By the way, I notice you provide links attacking the man, not his science.
Very interesting, but typical of you.

Here are a few more names for you to research their views on man's
contribution to greenhouse gas emissions, and let's see if you have the
decency to actually learn of what you speak:

Laboratory of Climatology in Arizona
Richard Lindzen, a leading authority on atmospheric change from M.I.T.
Fred Singer, the first Director of the U.S. Satellite Program, which
measures atmospheric change.


By the way, want another falsehood to chew on? Man-made CFC's are not the
cause of the ozone hole, and have no effect on it. And before you sputter
otherwise, CFC's are twice as heavy as normal air, and could never reach 30
miles into the atmosphere from a car airconditioner that sputters out. Face
it: most of what you know about atmospheric change is wrong. When you can
come back to me with how CFC's do cause the ozone hole, and man's actual
involvement in such, and not spout the normal dogma bullshit on the subject,
only THEN will you be worth any more of my time on ANY part of the subject
of climate change.

Bonus question: which chemical manufacturer of r134a (a patented chemical,
where Freon no longer was; any idea what that can do for a company's bottom
line) is the originator, and main financial backer, of the movement to ban
Freon, under the guise that it was to protect the ozone layer?

I completely doubt any response from you other than the same tired dogmatic
rubbish in which you always seem to indulge, no matter the subject. So knock
yourself out, believe you are conscientious because you are convinced of
your own superiority (not out of any fact of such, just because you are too
arrogant to question anything that is spoon-fed you by the media), and pat
yourself on the back. Enjoy.

And that is all for me on this subject.

Report this message

#104: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-06 15:58:30 by samdekat

BaJoRi wrote:
&lt;snip irrelevant guff&gt;

You seem to have drifted off topic again - compelling me to remind you
of what the topic is - you asserted the following:

&quot; For those that say it is man-made, there is much proof that volcanic
activity causes 100 times more greenhouse gases per year than
humanity's TECHNOLOGY.&quot;

If there is much proof on the matter, where is your proof?
Defend your assertion.
If you now realise (as you should) that this assertion is as farcical
as the other myths put forward by the increasing desperate, diminishing
club of climate change deniers, you should admit that it and you are
wrong. Having settled the matter, we may then engage in a more broad
ranging discussion on the anthropogenic causes of climate change.
Failure to address the topic at hand (via silence or avoidance of the
topic) will be solid evidence that you already know that you are proven
to be wrong.

Report this message

#105: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-07 06:29:25 by morgothscurse2002

On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 19:09:17 +0200, &quot;Taemon&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl" target="_blank">Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Morgoth's Curse wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:53:33 +0200, &quot;Taemon&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl" target="_blank">Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl</a>&gt;
&gt;&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; T, Massster.
&gt;&gt; Incidentally, I cannot grant your request to be the &quot;mad
&gt;&gt; scientist&quot; of AFT/RABT, but how do you feel about the title of
&gt;&gt; ALCHEMIST? I presume that you have a collection of beakers,
&gt;&gt; cauldrons and other tools of the trade that you can use to
&gt;&gt; concoct unholy substances while you cackle evilly? ;-)
&gt;
&gt;Of course, of course I do. Hm. I could go with that, I guess, but...
&gt;why can't I be Mad Scientist, again?

There no mad scientists in fantasy--unless an alchemist is considered
a scientist. As best as I can determine, modern opinion on this point
is mixed. Some consider alchemists to be the forerunner of modern
scientists--they are fond of pointing out that Isaac Newton was deeply
interested in alchemy--while others consider them hucksters who knew
how to fleece a king. The fact that Tolkien specifically mentions
alchemists in LOTR is another reason why the title is much more
appropriate than &quot;Mad Scientist.&quot;

Morgoth's Curse

Report this message

#106: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-07 06:29:51 by morgothscurse2002

On 3 Jul 2006 07:05:10 -0700, &quot;Henriette&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:heldenib&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">heldenib&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;&gt; The Club's magazine &quot;Sierra&quot; does offer some practical advice, but I
&gt;&gt; am seeking a forum where I can ask specific questions about recycling
&gt;&gt; and other issues. Unfortunately, I have not yet found such a forum.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;Maybe you can ask your specific questions here, maybe someone will
&gt;know?

Anybody know how to recycle Styrofoam? :-) It's easy to deliver
Styrofoam peanuts to the local Fed Ex outlet for reuse, but it is
almost impossible to recycle the Styrofoam blocks that are included
with every electronic device whether it be a computer or a DVD player.
I hate the thought of just throwing it away, but I do not have any use
for it myself and do not have much storage space in my garage.

&gt;&gt; I removed alt.org.sierra-club from my newsreader, but retained
&gt;&gt; alt.forestry primarily because those grumpy old loggers occasionally
&gt;&gt; post fascinating links about trees. :-)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;'grumpy old loggers', LOL. But oh, the huge ancient trees I saw in
&gt;California, where it took a *while* to walk around one! Redwoods, I
&gt;think they were called, but they were cut down incessantly and
&gt;ruthlessly. I think someone in the LOTR would have to say a word or two
&gt;about that.

Indeed. I wish we had a thousand ents to storm the corporate
headquarters of some of these logging companies. There is something
fundamentally wrong with a person who can look at a redwood tree and
see only lumber. :-\

Morgoth's Curse

Report this message

#107: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-07 06:30:08 by morgothscurse2002

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 03:08:44 GMT, <a href="mailto:sbjensen&#64;midway.uchicago.edu" target="_blank">sbjensen&#64;midway.uchicago.edu</a>
(Steuard Jensen) wrote:

&gt;&gt; I am just distressed that you were not able to participate in the
&gt;&gt; COTW discussions. :-\
&gt;
&gt;So am I. Those were presumably awesome, and now they're just about
&gt;finished.

Not hardly. ;-) See my post &quot;The Thread That Runs So True: Google,
the Usenet and Ancient Threads.&quot;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;Why thank you. :)
&gt;
&gt;&gt; You earned it. Your FAQ is, beyond question, the best of any
&gt;&gt; newsgroup in the Usenet. :-)
&gt;
&gt;That might be going a /little/ far. :) But many thanks for the
&gt;compliment nonetheless.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; Second, I start a job next fall as a professor in Claremont,
&gt;&gt; &gt; California
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Congratulations! ;-) By the way, whatever happened to that job in
&gt;&gt; Europe that you were considering?
&gt;
&gt;I looked into a few European possibilities, but none of them ended up
&gt;working out in the end. In any case, I'm quite pleased with how
&gt;things have ended up.

I confess that I do not know anything about academic world of physics.
Does Claremont have an enviable reputation in the international
physics community? If not, it will soon after you arrive. ;-) &lt;grin&gt;

&gt;&gt; &gt;And finally, I seem to be facing a frustrating medical condition
&gt;&gt; &gt;called a &quot;giant cell tumor&quot; in the bone above my right knee.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; It's an amazing coincidence, but I have the exact same problem above
&gt;&gt; my right knee.
&gt;
&gt;Seriously? That's pretty incredible; the websites I've seen indicated
&gt;that these things only hit roughly one in a million people. I guess
&gt;the Tolkien newsgroups are just full of awfully unique individuals. :)
&gt;
&gt;If you're at all interested in sharing details, I'd love to hear them
&gt;(either here or over email).. How big is your tumor? How long have
&gt;you been aware that something was going on? What are your symptoms?
&gt;How was it finally diagnosed? :)

&gt;(And in the interests of fair disclosure, my answers are: 1) Roughly
&gt;6.5 cm by 4.5 cm: on the large end. 2) A bit over six months. 3)
&gt;Tenderness to the touch at a particular point on the side of the knee
&gt;as well as pain during a variety of everyday uses including walking,
&gt;as well as swelling that wasn't bad at first but that increased over
&gt;time. 4) X-rays and some very vivid pictures on an MRI a few weeks
&gt;ago.)
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I am not as lucky as you, however. When I asked my doctor to remove
&gt;&gt; it, all I got was a lecture on the evils of unnecessary surgery.
&gt;&gt; :-\
&gt;
&gt;That really surprises me. My understanding was that these things are
&gt;quite aggressive when compared to other benign tumors. Left
&gt;unchecked, I believe that mine would just keep growing and eventually
&gt;eat away enough of my thigh bone to weaken it and cause a major
&gt;fracture (I already showed signs of a small fracture starting on my
&gt;X-ray). And of course, the earlier you find it and remove it, the
&gt;better your odds of not having nasty complications later.
&gt;
&gt;But I'm obviously not a doctor, so perhaps there are more variations
&gt;on the &quot;giant cell tumor&quot; theme than I've learned about. (Mine is a
&gt;&quot;giant cell tumor of the bone&quot;, in particular; is yours also in the
&gt;bone, or is it in soft tissue? That could be the difference...) In
&gt;any case, my best wishes to you, too. If the thing starts to cause
&gt;you pain or impact your lift, I'd probably look for a second opinion.
&gt;(I'm awfully lucky to work right next to the University of Chicago
&gt;Hospitals, I know!)

I was fifteen years old when I first noticed an unsightly lump an inch
or so above the kneecap. It was not painful or growing quickly, but
we consulted a doctor anyway. He concluded that the tumor was causing
the bone in my leg to grow out abnormally. He did not believe that it
would become much larger since I was near the age when bones cease
growing. He informed me that surgery was unnecessary as the tumor was
benign and the abnormal bone growth did not affect my ability to walk
or run. [It did supply yet another reason to avoid showering with the
seniors after gym class, however. ;-)] When I demanded that he remove
it anyway, he claimed that the surgery would cost at least $7,000. My
father did not have that kind of money (though he certainly would have
borrowed it if the tumor had been malignant, of course) and so I
learned to live with it. That was twenty years ago and I presume that
the surgery would cost at least ten times as much today. You know
what they say about American medicine: You won't die, but you'll
certainly wish you had after get the bill. :-\ Medicine has changed
quite a bit during the past twenty years, of course, and I have been
wondering if any of the new treatments could eliminate it without the
necessity of surgery.

CAT scans and MRIs were not available in our area at that time, of
course, so it is entirely possible that we have different types of
tumors.

&gt;&gt; You can certain that we all wish you a speedy recovery!!! :-)
&gt;
&gt;Many thanks.

Good luck! Be sure to wear your cast on your first day at work so
that you can explain to your boss that a thesis review in Chicago is
_really_ tough! ;-)

Morgoth's Curse

Report this message

#108: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-07 06:40:29 by Phlip

Morgoth's Curse wrote:

&gt; The fact that Tolkien specifically mentions alchemists
&gt; in LOTR is another reason why the title is much more appropriate than &quot;Mad
&gt; Scientist.&quot;

Refresh my memory, please - where does Alchemy appear?

I thought all magic was sympathetic, except for a couple incidences
of &quot;blasting fire&quot; which of course correspond to either primitive
gunpowder (Saruman) or Greek Fire (Sauron).

--
Phlip

Report this message

#109: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-07 16:39:44 by BaJoRi

&quot;Morgoth's Curse&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com" target="_blank">morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1oora29efquem8qp7cmap21log202h0k9a&#64;4ax.com..." target="_blank">1oora29efquem8qp7cmap21log202h0k9a&#64;4ax.com...</a>
&gt; On 3 Jul 2006 07:05:10 -0700, &quot;Henriette&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:heldenib&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">heldenib&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt;
&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; The Club's magazine &quot;Sierra&quot; does offer some practical advice, but I
&gt;&gt;&gt; am seeking a forum where I can ask specific questions about recycling
&gt;&gt;&gt; and other issues. Unfortunately, I have not yet found such a forum.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Maybe you can ask your specific questions here, maybe someone will
&gt;&gt;know?
&gt;
&gt; Anybody know how to recycle Styrofoam? :-) It's easy to deliver
&gt; Styrofoam peanuts to the local Fed Ex outlet for reuse, but it is
&gt; almost impossible to recycle the Styrofoam blocks that are included
&gt; with every electronic device whether it be a computer or a DVD player.
&gt; I hate the thought of just throwing it away, but I do not have any use
&gt; for it myself and do not have much storage space in my garage.


well, according to a few interesting books I possess (one of which was put
out by the CIA in nicaragua, for those fun-loving jokesters: the Contras) it
is possible to melt down styrofoam, CAREFULLY mix it with two other
ingredients, and have a very decent plastic explosive. It seemed to work
well on Jack-o-Lanterns when I was a kid.

If that isn't how you wish to recycle such, there are some refuse companies
around that do take the stuff for recycling, although they are scattered.
For some reason those companies seem to be more prevalent in the mid-market
cities.

Here are two links that should help you out. The first one concentrates on
loose &quot;peanut&quot; type foam, the other is general

www.loosefillpackaging.com 800-828-2214
<a href="http://www.epspackaging.org/info.html" target="_blank">http://www.epspackaging.org/info.html</a>

&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I removed alt.org.sierra-club from my newsreader, but retained
&gt;&gt;&gt; alt.forestry primarily because those grumpy old loggers occasionally
&gt;&gt;&gt; post fascinating links about trees. :-)
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;'grumpy old loggers', LOL. But oh, the huge ancient trees I saw in
&gt;&gt;California, where it took a *while* to walk around one! Redwoods, I
&gt;&gt;think they were called, but they were cut down incessantly and
&gt;&gt;ruthlessly. I think someone in the LOTR would have to say a word or two
&gt;&gt;about that.
&gt;
&gt; Indeed. I wish we had a thousand ents to storm the corporate
&gt; headquarters of some of these logging companies. There is something
&gt; fundamentally wrong with a person who can look at a redwood tree and
&gt; see only lumber. :-\
&gt;
&gt; Morgoth's Curse

Report this message

#110: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-07 17:45:38 by Taemon

Morgoth's Curse wrote:

&gt; On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 19:09:17 +0200, &quot;Taemon&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl" target="_blank">Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl</a>&gt;
&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; T, Massster.
&gt;&gt;&gt; Incidentally, I cannot grant your request to be the &quot;mad
&gt;&gt;&gt; scientist&quot; of AFT/RABT, but how do you feel about the title of
&gt;&gt;&gt; ALCHEMIST? I presume that you have a collection of beakers,
&gt;&gt;&gt; cauldrons and other tools of the trade that you can use to
&gt;&gt;&gt; concoct unholy substances while you cackle evilly? ;-)
&gt;&gt; Of course, of course I do. Hm. I could go with that, I guess,
&gt;&gt; but... why can't I be Mad Scientist, again?
&gt; There no mad scientists in fantasy--unless an alchemist is
&gt; considered a scientist. As best as I can determine, modern
&gt; opinion on this point is mixed. Some consider alchemists to be
&gt; the forerunner of modern scientists--they are fond of pointing
&gt; out that Isaac Newton was deeply interested in alchemy--

Isaac Newton was also religious, a genius and stark raving mad. I can
hardly compare to him!

&gt; while
&gt; others consider them hucksters who knew how to fleece a king.
&gt; The fact that Tolkien specifically mentions alchemists in LOTR is
&gt; another reason why the title is much more appropriate than &quot;Mad
&gt; Scientist.&quot;

Hmmm... true, true. Can I be &quot;Mad Alchemist&quot;, then?

T.

Report this message

#111: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-07 17:56:03 by BaJoRi

&quot;Taemon&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl" target="_blank">Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:4h7dt4F1q1ufkU1&#64;individual.net..." target="_blank">4h7dt4F1q1ufkU1&#64;individual.net...</a>
&gt; Morgoth's Curse wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 19:09:17 +0200, &quot;Taemon&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl" target="_blank">Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl</a>&gt;
&gt;&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; T, Massster.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Incidentally, I cannot grant your request to be the &quot;mad
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; scientist&quot; of AFT/RABT, but how do you feel about the title of
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ALCHEMIST? I presume that you have a collection of beakers,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; cauldrons and other tools of the trade that you can use to
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; concoct unholy substances while you cackle evilly? ;-)
&gt;&gt;&gt; Of course, of course I do. Hm. I could go with that, I guess,
&gt;&gt;&gt; but... why can't I be Mad Scientist, again?
&gt;&gt; There no mad scientists in fantasy--unless an alchemist is
&gt;&gt; considered a scientist. As best as I can determine, modern
&gt;&gt; opinion on this point is mixed. Some consider alchemists to be
&gt;&gt; the forerunner of modern scientists--they are fond of pointing
&gt;&gt; out that Isaac Newton was deeply interested in alchemy--
&gt;
&gt; Isaac Newton was also religious, a genius and stark raving mad. I can
&gt; hardly compare to him!

I saw a documentary that took a very intersting angle as regards Newton, in
that they correlated his behaviors and intellect and such to a form of
autism. I thought they stretched it a bit, to make their case, but it was
very compelling.


&gt;
&gt;&gt; while
&gt;&gt; others consider them hucksters who knew how to fleece a king.
&gt;&gt; The fact that Tolkien specifically mentions alchemists in LOTR is
&gt;&gt; another reason why the title is much more appropriate than &quot;Mad
&gt;&gt; Scientist.&quot;
&gt;
&gt; Hmmm... true, true. Can I be &quot;Mad Alchemist&quot;, then?
&gt;
&gt; T.
&gt;

Report this message

#112: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-07 21:15:36 by Me

In rec.arts.books.tolkien Christopher Kreuzer &lt;<a href="mailto:spamgard&#64;blueyonder.co.uk" target="_blank">spamgard&#64;blueyonder.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Thankfully the peak of alt.fan.tolkien still remains reassuringly out of
&gt; reach.

On the other hand, after less than 4 years you are 2/3 of
the way there! And you missed most of 2003! Maybe in another 2
years or so... :-)

--Jamie. (efil4dreN)
andrews .uwo } Merge these two lines to obtain my e-mail address.
@csd .ca } (Unsolicited &quot;bulk&quot; e-mail costs everyone.)

Report this message

#113: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-08 00:37:12 by Huan the hound

On 2006-07-07, Morgoth's Curse &lt;<a href="mailto:morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com" target="_blank">morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote
in &lt;<a href="mailto:1oora29efquem8qp7cmap21log202h0k9a&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">1oora29efquem8qp7cmap21log202h0k9a&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;:

&gt; On 3 Jul 2006 07:05:10 -0700, &quot;Henriette&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:heldenib&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">heldenib&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt;
&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; The Club's magazine &quot;Sierra&quot; does offer some practical advice, but I
&gt;&gt;&gt; am seeking a forum where I can ask specific questions about recycling
&gt;&gt;&gt; and other issues. Unfortunately, I have not yet found such a forum.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Maybe you can ask your specific questions here, maybe someone will
&gt;&gt;know?
&gt;
&gt; Anybody know how to recycle Styrofoam? :-) It's easy to deliver
&gt; Styrofoam peanuts to the local Fed Ex outlet for reuse, but it is
&gt; almost impossible to recycle the Styrofoam blocks that are included
&gt; with every electronic device whether it be a computer or a DVD player.
&gt; I hate the thought of just throwing it away, but I do not have any use
&gt; for it myself and do not have much storage space in my garage.

Does your community have a waste-to-energy plant? Styrofoam vs. paper
cups was a project in my thermodynamics class. We determined that
styrofoam was better because it works so well for coffee and releases so
much energy when burned. But the waste-to-energy plant can clean the
smoke; I guess you can't do that in a home boiler. So the project was
really only conclusive for Grand Rapids. :-)

--
Huan, the hound of Valinor
&lt;<a href="http://www.douban.net/people/2000366/" target="_blank">http://www.douban.net/people/2000366/</a>&gt;

Report this message

#114: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-08 13:05:20 by Henriette

BaJoRi schreef:
&gt;
&gt; Well, for once Sam made an astute observation (or was it someone else? I
&gt; would never believe that Sam could say anything intelligent, yet I am faced
&gt; with that possibility), India and China are much more inviolved with
&gt; pollutant creation activity, and will double pollutants annually for the
&gt; next few years, projected. ANy gains that might be realized by Kyoto, and I
&gt; truly belioeve that there wouldn't be any such benefit, would be immediately
&gt; offset by China and India, and in fact there will be even more pollutants in
&gt; the atmosphere, due to those countries.

Although I think Sam says many sensible things - but it would be very
civilised when you two stopped insulting one another-, the above was
written by TT Arvind. But he calls these &quot;globalisation emissions&quot;:
emissions solely attributable to production for Europe and the US.
(snip)
&gt; &gt;&gt; The amount of forest in the world is virtually the same as when Teddy
&gt; &gt;&gt; Roosevelt was in office (don't dispute it
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; That is a dangerous remark in a newsgroup.
&gt;
&gt; But it is s true statement. The issue is bio-diversity.(snip)

I mean 'don't dispute it' is a strange remark in a newsgroup...
&gt;
&gt; The total amount of greenhouse gases produced by human technology is only
&gt; 3.4% of the total produced every year. Not as much as those who are
&gt; politically motivated would have you believe.

The (American) Union of Concerned Scientists says you are encouraged to
*disbelieve* the true amount human activities are contributing to
global warming for political reasons.

&gt;It isn't an insignificant
&gt; number by any stretch (but hardly enough to cause the current global
&gt; warming), but as far as human pollution goes there are so many more things
&gt; that humanity could work on easily enough (snip)

That is something we can agree on entirely.

Henriette

Report this message

#115: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-08 13:31:48 by Henriette

Morgoth's Curse schreef:

&gt; I wish we had a thousand ents to storm the corporate
&gt; headquarters of some of these logging companies. There is something
&gt; fundamentally wrong with a person who can look at a redwood tree and
&gt; see only lumber. :-\
&gt;
I got a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach every time we passed a
huge car with enormous felled redwoods on it. Do the people from
'corporate headquarters' see it? D.H. Lawrence writes in Lady
Chatterley's Lover:

&quot;The gentry were departing to pleasanter places, where they could spend
their money without having to see how it was made&quot;.

We could definitely use an Ent or thousand;-)

Henriette

Report this message

#116: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-08 15:47:59 by TT Arvind

Wes =F0u Iniyarutti hal!
=20
&gt; Although I think Sam says many sensible things - but it would be very
&gt; civilised when you two stopped insulting one another-, the above was
&gt; written by TT Arvind. But he calls these &quot;globalisation emissions&quot;:
&gt; emissions solely attributable to production for Europe and the US.

There are also non-globalisation emissions in India and China which are=20
also on the increase (more cars, more people flying, more domestic=20
demand for consumer goods). Globalisation emissions are of a different=20
order of worry, though, because they call into question the figures we=20
trot out about the reduction in emissions in Europe.

&gt; The (American) Union of Concerned Scientists says you are encouraged to
&gt; *disbelieve* the true amount human activities are contributing to
&gt; global warming for political reasons.

But even in the US, very few people take them seriously now. On the=20
academic front, the main plank of those against action to combat global=20
warmingers has shifted in the past few months from &quot;Is human-induced=20
global warming really happening?&quot; to &quot;Even if global warming is=20
happening, should dealing with it really be a priority?&quot; I suppose=20
that is progress of some sort.


--=20
Arvind

Report this message

#117: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-08 16:26:21 by bredband.net

&quot;TT Arvind&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:ttarvind&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">ttarvind&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; skrev i meddelandet
news:<a href="mailto:MPG.1f19c7edc5925b4d989d0c&#64;news.individual.net..." target="_blank">MPG.1f19c7edc5925b4d989d0c&#64;news.individual.net...</a>
Wes ðu Iniyarutti hal!

[snip]

&gt;There are also non-globalisation emissions in India and China which are
also on the increase (more cars, more people flying,

Proof that there are no balrogs in India and China.

Öjevind

Report this message

#118: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-09 00:37:42 by Raven

&quot;TT Arvind&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:ttarvind&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">ttarvind&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; skrev i en meddelelse
news:<a href="mailto:MPG.1f1652e356c0f169989d0b&#64;news.individual.net..." target="_blank">MPG.1f1652e356c0f169989d0b&#64;news.individual.net...</a>

&gt; Wes ðu Raven hal!

&gt; &gt; I never wanted to be a barbarian *king*. Barbarian suffices for me.
&gt; &gt; And if the King tries to command me så knuller jeg enken hans ganske
&gt; &gt; blidt og nennsomt.

&gt; Erk. Veldig... høvisk.

Don't think that this is the most barbaric thing that I have written on
the Tolkien NGs. That must beyond competition be the times when I
deliberately accused an Irishman - sometimes Michael O'Neill, sometimes Een
Wilde Ier - of being a Sassenach. But what am I supposed to do, when one of
them calls a Swede &quot;Norwegian&quot;, which is to a Swede an insult, and to a
Norwegian an imposition?

Annankákai.

Report this message

#119: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-10 00:06:53 by TT Arvind

Wes =F0u =D6jevind L=E5ng hal!
&gt; &gt;There are also non-globalisation emissions in India and China which are
&gt; &gt;also on the increase (more cars, more people flying,
&gt;=20
&gt; Proof that there are no balrogs in India and China.

I actually suspect they fly Balrog-back. That would explain what all=20
those &quot;emissions&quot; are.

--=20
Arvind

Tonight thousands of people on this earth will die of starvation. Most=20
of you will not give a shit. And most of you will be more upset with=20
the fact that I said, 'shit' than that thousands of people will die=20
tonight. -- Tony Campolo

Report this message

#120: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-10 19:41:05 by Henriette

TT Arvind schreef:

&gt; There are also non-globalisation emissions in India and China which are
&gt; also on the increase (more cars, more people flying, more domestic
&gt; demand for consumer goods).

Thank you for this addition. In the globalisation emissions-discussions
this point appears to be usually overlooked.

&gt; Globalisation emissions are of a different
&gt; order of worry, though, because they call into question the figures we
&gt; trot out about the reduction in emissions in Europe.
&gt;
Exactly, it makes the figures very questionable.

(On the Union of Concerned Scientists)

&gt; But even in the US, very few people take them seriously now.

Why? I take them seriously.

&gt; On the
&gt; academic front, the main plank of those against action to combat global
&gt; warmingers has shifted in the past few months from &quot;Is human-induced
&gt; global warming really happening?&quot; to &quot;Even if global warming is
&gt; happening, should dealing with it really be a priority?&quot; I suppose
&gt; that is progress of some sort.

I think 'we' have a package of interrelated priorities, of which this
is one. What would be your priority?

Iniyarutti (from a country below a rising sea-level)

Report this message

#121: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-10 20:29:16 by Henriette

Steuard Jensen schreef:
&gt; (snip)
&gt; So instead, I decided the title should be &quot;Instantons and Chiral
&gt; Symmetry in String Theory&quot;. I'm afraid it would take me a little
&gt; while to explain what all that means, though. :)
&gt;
The Netherlands host an International Chemists Conference at the
moment, where they (just;-) talk about 'Multi-Component Reactions' for
five days. The conference is so international that there are no
interpreters, because they could not afford an interpreter for almost
every single participant. Now all the lectures and publications are in
English.

Henriette

Report this message

#122: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-10 21:34:36 by BaJoRi

&quot;Henriette&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:heldenib&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">heldenib&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1152556156.092715.248960&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1152556156.092715.248960&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; Steuard Jensen schreef:
&gt;&gt; (snip)
&gt;&gt; So instead, I decided the title should be &quot;Instantons and Chiral
&gt;&gt; Symmetry in String Theory&quot;. I'm afraid it would take me a little
&gt;&gt; while to explain what all that means, though. :)
&gt;&gt;
&gt; The Netherlands host an International Chemists Conference at the
&gt; moment, where they (just;-) talk about 'Multi-Component Reactions' for
&gt; five days. The conference is so international that there are no
&gt; interpreters, because they could not afford an interpreter for almost
&gt; every single participant. Now all the lectures and publications are in
&gt; English.
&gt;
&gt; Henriette
&gt;


English has been the language of science, since the middle ages, when it
became widespread as such to keep research away from the Inquisitors of the
Catholic Church.

Report this message

#123: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-12 20:41:34 by Henriette

BaJoRi schreef:

&gt; English has been the language of science, since the middle ages, when it
&gt; became widespread as such to keep research away from the Inquisitors of the
&gt; Catholic Church.

In American cartoons, the language of science is invariably English
with a broad German accent;-)

Henriette

Report this message

#124: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-13 21:16:32 by morgothscurse2002

On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 04:40:29 GMT, Phlip &lt;<a href="mailto:phlip2005&#64;gEEEmail.com" target="_blank">phlip2005&#64;gEEEmail.com</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;Morgoth's Curse wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; The fact that Tolkien specifically mentions alchemists
&gt;&gt; in LOTR is another reason why the title is much more appropriate than &quot;Mad
&gt;&gt; Scientist.&quot;
&gt;
&gt;Refresh my memory, please - where does Alchemy appear?

From &quot;The Window on the West&quot;:

'Death was ever present, because the Numenoreans still, as they had in
their old kingdom, and so lost it, hungered after endless life
unchanging. Kings made tombs more splendid than houses of the living,
and counted old names in the rolls of their descent dearer than the
names of sons. Childless lords sat in aged halls musing on heraldry;
in secret chambers withered men compounded strong elixirs, or in high
cold towers asked questions of the stars. And the last king of the
line of Anarion had no heir.'

Morgoth's Curse

Report this message

#125: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-13 21:17:08 by morgothscurse2002

On Fri, 7 Jul 2006 17:45:38 +0200, &quot;Taemon&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl" target="_blank">Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Morgoth's Curse wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 19:09:17 +0200, &quot;Taemon&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl" target="_blank">Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl</a>&gt;
&gt;&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; T, Massster.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Incidentally, I cannot grant your request to be the &quot;mad
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; scientist&quot; of AFT/RABT, but how do you feel about the title of
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ALCHEMIST? I presume that you have a collection of beakers,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; cauldrons and other tools of the trade that you can use to
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; concoct unholy substances while you cackle evilly? ;-)
&gt;&gt;&gt; Of course, of course I do. Hm. I could go with that, I guess,
&gt;&gt;&gt; but... why can't I be Mad Scientist, again?
&gt;&gt; There no mad scientists in fantasy--unless an alchemist is
&gt;&gt; considered a scientist. As best as I can determine, modern
&gt;&gt; opinion on this point is mixed. Some consider alchemists to be
&gt;&gt; the forerunner of modern scientists--they are fond of pointing
&gt;&gt; out that Isaac Newton was deeply interested in alchemy--
&gt;
&gt;Isaac Newton was also religious, a genius and stark raving mad. I can
&gt;hardly compare to him!

If it is any consolation, some of your posts make you seem stark
raving mad. ;-)

&gt;&gt; while
&gt;&gt; others consider them hucksters who knew how to fleece a king.
&gt;&gt; The fact that Tolkien specifically mentions alchemists in LOTR is
&gt;&gt; another reason why the title is much more appropriate than &quot;Mad
&gt;&gt; Scientist.&quot;
&gt;
&gt;Hmmm... true, true. Can I be &quot;Mad Alchemist&quot;, then?


So shall it be. Henceforth, Taemon is the &quot;Mad Alchemist&quot; of the
Tolkien newsgroups. :-)

Morgoth's Curse

Report this message

#126: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-13 21:17:46 by morgothscurse2002

On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 22:37:12 GMT, Huan the hound
&lt;<a href="mailto:huanthehound&#64;netscape.net" target="_blank">huanthehound&#64;netscape.net</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;On 2006-07-07, Morgoth's Curse &lt;<a href="mailto:morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com" target="_blank">morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote
&gt;in &lt;<a href="mailto:1oora29efquem8qp7cmap21log202h0k9a&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">1oora29efquem8qp7cmap21log202h0k9a&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; On 3 Jul 2006 07:05:10 -0700, &quot;Henriette&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:heldenib&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">heldenib&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt;
&gt;&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The Club's magazine &quot;Sierra&quot; does offer some practical advice, but I
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; am seeking a forum where I can ask specific questions about recycling
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and other issues. Unfortunately, I have not yet found such a forum.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Maybe you can ask your specific questions here, maybe someone will
&gt;&gt;&gt;know?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Anybody know how to recycle Styrofoam? :-) It's easy to deliver
&gt;&gt; Styrofoam peanuts to the local Fed Ex outlet for reuse, but it is
&gt;&gt; almost impossible to recycle the Styrofoam blocks that are included
&gt;&gt; with every electronic device whether it be a computer or a DVD player.
&gt;&gt; I hate the thought of just throwing it away, but I do not have any use
&gt;&gt; for it myself and do not have much storage space in my garage.
&gt;
&gt;Does your community have a waste-to-energy plant? Styrofoam vs. paper
&gt;cups was a project in my thermodynamics class. We determined that
&gt;styrofoam was better because it works so well for coffee and releases so
&gt;much energy when burned. But the waste-to-energy plant can clean the
&gt;smoke; I guess you can't do that in a home boiler. So the project was
&gt;really only conclusive for Grand Rapids. :-)

You gotta be kidding. Moline, Illinois is so primitive that it does
not even have curbside recycling service (although three of the nearby
cities do.) Instead, residents are expected to transport recyclable
materials to large container bins which can only be accessed by a
staircase that is several feet off the ground. (As you can imagine,
this is especially difficult for elderly residents.) Naturally, most
residents do not bother and hence the waste ends up in the local
landfill (which is yet another bad idea.) This city is most
definitely not environmentally progressive. :-(

Morgoth's Curse

Report this message

#127: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-13 23:15:37 by Huan the hound

On 2006-07-13, Morgoth's Curse &lt;<a href="mailto:morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com" target="_blank">morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote
in &lt;<a href="mailto:f17db2l5r60n34kugblgfccuqkc09e9o79&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">f17db2l5r60n34kugblgfccuqkc09e9o79&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;:

[snip]
&gt; You gotta be kidding. Moline, Illinois is so primitive that it does
&gt; not even have curbside recycling service (although three of the nearby
&gt; cities do.) Instead, residents are expected to transport recyclable
&gt; materials to large container bins which can only be accessed by a
&gt; staircase that is several feet off the ground. (As you can imagine,
&gt; this is especially difficult for elderly residents.) Naturally, most
&gt; residents do not bother and hence the waste ends up in the local
&gt; landfill (which is yet another bad idea.) This city is most
&gt; definitely not environmentally progressive. :-(

Actually, if they aren't charging you to recycle, you're better off than
my parents. They pay to recycle. That is, they drive for 20 minutes and
pay a guy and then put their recyclables into the correct bins themselves.

You may find this link interesting:
&lt;<a href="http://www.talktalkchina.com/index.php/2006/07/10/recycling-chinese-style/" target="_blank"> http://www.talktalkchina.com/index.php/2006/07/10/recycling- chinese-style/</a>&gt;

um... People have found that site offensive, it is a place to vent anger,
not to take things seriously...

--
Huan

Report this message

#128: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-13 23:18:07 by bredband.net

&quot;Morgoth's Curse&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com" target="_blank">morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com</a>&gt; skrev i meddelandet
news:<a href="mailto:jv6db29fvhrhmf54fs21nsnvp4r623jlsj&#64;4ax.com..." target="_blank">jv6db29fvhrhmf54fs21nsnvp4r623jlsj&#64;4ax.com...</a>

[snip]

&gt;&gt;Refresh my memory, please - where does Alchemy appear?
&gt;
&gt; From &quot;The Window on the West&quot;:
&gt;
&gt; 'Death was ever present, because the Numenoreans still, as they had in
&gt; their old kingdom, and so lost it, hungered after endless life
&gt; unchanging. Kings made tombs more splendid than houses of the living,
&gt; and counted old names in the rolls of their descent dearer than the
&gt; names of sons. Childless lords sat in aged halls musing on heraldry;
&gt; in secret chambers withered men compounded strong elixirs, or in high
&gt; cold towers asked questions of the stars. And the last king of the
&gt; line of Anarion had no heir.'

But that isn't strictly about alchemy; it's about trying to compund an
elixir that could prolong life.

Öjevind

Report this message

#129: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-14 00:12:46 by Christopher Kreuzer

Öjevind Lång &lt;<a href="mailto:bredband.net&#64;ojevind.lang" target="_blank">bredband.net&#64;ojevind.lang</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &quot;Morgoth's Curse&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com" target="_blank">morgothscurse2002&#64;nospam.yahoo.com</a>&gt; skrev i
&gt; meddelandet news:<a href="mailto:jv6db29fvhrhmf54fs21nsnvp4r623jlsj&#64;4ax.com..." target="_blank">jv6db29fvhrhmf54fs21nsnvp4r623jlsj&#64;4ax.com...</a>
&gt;
&gt; [snip]
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Refresh my memory, please - where does Alchemy appear?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; From &quot;The Window on the West&quot;:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; 'Death was ever present, because the Numenoreans still, as they had
&gt;&gt; in their old kingdom, and so lost it, hungered after endless life
&gt;&gt; unchanging. Kings made tombs more splendid than houses of the
&gt;&gt; living, and counted old names in the rolls of their descent dearer
&gt;&gt; than the names of sons. Childless lords sat in aged halls musing on
&gt;&gt; heraldry; in secret chambers withered men compounded strong elixirs,
&gt;&gt; or in high cold towers asked questions of the stars. And the last
&gt;&gt; king of the line of Anarion had no heir.'
&gt;
&gt; But that isn't strictly about alchemy; it's about trying to compund an
&gt; elixir that could prolong life.

What? Like the Philosopher's Stone that was sought by ... alchemists!

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemy" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemy</a>

&quot;The best known goals of the alchemists were the transmutation of common
metals into gold or silver, and the creation of a &quot;panacea&quot;, a remedy
that supposedly would cure all diseases and prolong life indefinitely.
Starting with the Middle Ages, European alchemists invested much effort
on the search for the &quot;philosopher's stone&quot;, a mythical substance that
was believed to be an essential ingredient for either or both of those
goals.&quot;

Also:

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher</a>'s stone

Report this message

#130: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-15 11:56:35 by Taemon

Morgoth's Curse wrote:

&gt; On Fri, 7 Jul 2006 17:45:38 +0200, &quot;Taemon&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl" target="_blank">Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl</a>&gt;
&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; Isaac Newton was also religious, a genius and stark raving mad.
&gt;&gt; I can hardly compare to him!
&gt; If it is any consolation, some of your posts make you seem stark
&gt; raving mad. ;-)

I feel much better.

&gt;&gt; Hmmm... true, true. Can I be &quot;Mad Alchemist&quot;, then?
&gt; So shall it be. Henceforth, Taemon is the &quot;Mad Alchemist&quot; of the
&gt; Tolkien newsgroups. :-)

BOOM!

T.

Report this message

#131: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-15 13:31:39 by Christopher Kreuzer

Taemon &lt;<a href="mailto:Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl" target="_blank">Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Morgoth's Curse wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; On Fri, 7 Jul 2006 17:45:38 +0200, &quot;Taemon&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl" target="_blank">Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl</a>&gt;
&gt;&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Isaac Newton was also religious, a genius and stark raving mad.
&gt;&gt;&gt; I can hardly compare to him!
&gt;&gt; If it is any consolation, some of your posts make you seem stark
&gt;&gt; raving mad. ;-)
&gt;
&gt; I feel much better.

&lt;worried thoughts&gt;

&gt;&gt;&gt; Hmmm... true, true. Can I be &quot;Mad Alchemist&quot;, then?
&gt;&gt; So shall it be. Henceforth, Taemon is the &quot;Mad Alchemist&quot; of the
&gt;&gt; Tolkien newsgroups. :-)

Nooooo! Wai...

&gt; BOOM!

&lt;gentle pitter-patter of falling fragments of words&gt;

Does anyone have any glue?

Report this message

#132: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-15 13:45:33 by Taemon

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:

&gt; Taemon &lt;<a href="mailto:Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl" target="_blank">Taemon&#64;zonnet.nl</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; Morgoth's Curse wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; So shall it be. Henceforth, Taemon is the &quot;Mad Alchemist&quot; of
&gt;&gt;&gt; the Tolkien newsgroups. :-)
&gt; Nooooo! Wai...
&gt;&gt; BOOM!
&gt; &lt;gentle pitter-patter of falling fragments of words&gt;
&gt; Does anyone have any glue?

I can make you something, if you want? Just a moment. Hmm, what would
happen if I mix this with...

T.

Report this message

#133: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-15 16:04:45 by Een Wilde Ier

Henriette wrote:
&gt; Morgoth's Curse schreef:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; It is once again time to update the official AFT/RABT list of
&gt;&gt; titles.
&gt; (snip)
&gt;&gt; Queen: Jette Golde
&gt;
&gt; That's Goldie, MC!
&gt;
&gt;&gt; (snip) The
&gt;&gt; title of WISE SAGE is therefore transferred to the wisest of the many
&gt;&gt; wise sages in AFT/RABT: Troels Forchhammer. Congratulations, Troels.
&gt;&gt; :-)
&gt;&gt;
&gt; Part of Troels's wisdom must be the words of *our* national Dutch
&gt; pirate: Piet Hein, which Troels likes to quote;-)

Who is Piet Hein?

&gt;&gt; The title CAPTAIN OF THE GUARDS now passes to Raven.
&gt;&gt; Congratulations, Raven! :-)
&gt;&gt;
&gt; I can already hear him from afar: &lt;whet whet whet whet&gt;

Let's just hope that he doesn't shave hos own head off with that thing...

&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt; Henriette retains her title LADY OF THE GOLDEN WORDS.
&gt;&gt; Congratulations, Henriette! :-)
&gt;&gt;
&gt; That is grand, thank you Morgoth's Curse! It must be my Silence of the
&gt; last few months (Silence is Golden) which made my title more fitting
&gt; than ever;-)

Though I agree with the &quot;Golden Lady&quot; bit, I feel obliged to ask -
silence? When? ;-)

Report this message

#134: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-15 16:09:44 by Een Wilde Ier

Huan the hound wrote:
&gt; On 2006-07-03, BaJoRi &lt;<a href="mailto:bajori&#64;cbg.com" target="_blank">bajori&#64;cbg.com</a>&gt; wrote in
&gt; &lt;0_fqg.25929$<a href="mailto:ec2.23825&#64;fe12.news.easynews.com" target="_blank">ec2.23825&#64;fe12.news.easynews.com</a>&gt;:
&gt;
&gt; [snip]
&gt;&gt; As for why it is happening, you won't find many people that don't believe it
&gt;&gt; is happening, but major disagreements as to why. For those that say it is
&gt;&gt; man-made, there is much proof that volcanic activity causes 100 times more
&gt;&gt; greenhouse gases per year than humanity's TECHNOLOGY.
&gt;&gt;
&gt; That is a good point. It seems to me that we haven't been studying
&gt; climate change and its causes nearly long enough to know what is
&gt; happening or why.

look - neither you or I are climatologists - i.e. the people with
knowledge in this area - who _do_ say that we're doing catastrophic damage.

Who're you going to believe, them or nuts like Ann Coulter, etc.?

Report this message

#135: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-15 16:11:49 by Een Wilde Ier

TT Arvind wrote:
&gt; Wes ðu Iniyarutti hal!
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Although I think Sam says many sensible things - but it would be very
&gt;&gt; civilised when you two stopped insulting one another-, the above was
&gt;&gt; written by TT Arvind. But he calls these &quot;globalisation emissions&quot;:
&gt;&gt; emissions solely attributable to production for Europe and the US.
&gt;
&gt; There are also non-globalisation emissions in India and China which are
&gt; also on the increase (more cars, more people flying, more domestic
&gt; demand for consumer goods). Globalisation emissions are of a different
&gt; order of worry, though, because they call into question the figures we
&gt; trot out about the reduction in emissions in Europe.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; The (American) Union of Concerned Scientists says you are encouraged to
&gt;&gt; *disbelieve* the true amount human activities are contributing to
&gt;&gt; global warming for political reasons.
&gt;
&gt; But even in the US, very few people take them seriously now. On the
&gt; academic front, the main plank of those against action to combat global
&gt; warmingers has shifted in the past few months from &quot;Is human-induced
&gt; global warming really happening?&quot; to &quot;Even if global warming is
&gt; happening, should dealing with it really be a priority?&quot; I suppose
&gt; that is progress of some sort.

No, it's just the next stage in delaying tactics by corporations. It's a
well-trodden path (big tobacco?) by this point.

Report this message

#136: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-15 18:06:59 by bredband.net

&quot;Christopher Kreuzer&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:spamgard&#64;blueyonder.co.uk" target="_blank">spamgard&#64;blueyonder.co.uk</a>&gt; skrev i meddelandet
news:yzztg.101105

[snip]

&gt;&gt; But that isn't strictly about alchemy; it's about trying to compund an
&gt;&gt; elixir that could prolong life.
&gt;
&gt; What? Like the Philosopher's Stone that was sought by ... alchemists!
&gt;
&gt; <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemy" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemy</a>
&gt;
&gt; &quot;The best known goals of the alchemists were the transmutation of common
&gt; metals into gold or silver, and the creation of a &quot;panacea&quot;, a remedy
&gt; that supposedly would cure all diseases and prolong life indefinitely.
&gt; Starting with the Middle Ages, European alchemists invested much effort
&gt; on the search for the &quot;philosopher's stone&quot;, a mythical substance that
&gt; was believed to be an essential ingredient for either or both of those
&gt; goals.&quot;
&gt;
&gt; Also:
&gt;
&gt; <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher</a>'s stone

I stand corrected.

Öjevind

Report this message

#137: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-16 01:18:27 by samdekat

Steuard Jensen wrote:
&gt; Quoth &quot;Henriette&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:heldenib&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">heldenib&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; in article
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:1151603470.405394.279250&#64;m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1151603470.405394.279250&#64;m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;:
&gt; &gt; Steuard Jensen schreef:
&gt; &gt; &gt; First, at long last I'm scheduled to defend my Ph.D. thesis two
&gt; &gt; &gt; weeks from today.
&gt;
&gt; &gt; 'On the Origin of Hobbits'?;-) Wonderful, bravo! What is it about?
&gt;
&gt; I thought about just submitting my &quot;What is Tom Bombadil&quot; essay, but
&gt; then I imagined going through and converting all the citations to MLA
&gt; form and I decided it was hopeless.
&gt;
&gt; So instead, I decided the title should be &quot;Instantons and Chiral
&gt; Symmetry in String Theory&quot;. I'm afraid it would take me a little
&gt; while to explain what all that means, though. :)
&gt;

Having said that (and I am not a physicist by any means) I detect
overlap between the topics. Perhaps String Theory can give us insight
into the nature of Tom Bombadil - is Tom actually some kind of closed
p-brane expressed in another dimension?

I've previously considered explaining Tom using quantum mechanics -
except that I couldn't explain the stumping. Although it does elegantly
explain the ring interaction and apparent ability to move at near
relativistic velocity.

Report this message

#138: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-16 03:26:25 by Count Menelvagor

Sam's the little guy wrote:

&gt; Having said that (and I am not a physicist by any means) I detect
&gt; overlap between the topics. Perhaps String Theory can give us insight
&gt; into the nature of Tom Bombadil - is Tom actually some kind of closed
&gt; p-brane expressed in another dimension?
&gt;
&gt; I've previously considered explaining Tom using quantum mechanics -
&gt; except that I couldn't explain the stumping. Although it does elegantly
&gt; explain the ring interaction and apparent ability to move at near
&gt; relativistic velocity.

nonsense. tom bombadil was a tectonic plate.

Report this message

#139: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-16 13:32:11 by Henriette

=D6jevind L=E5ng schreef:

&gt; &quot;Christopher Kreuzer&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:spamgard&#64;blueyonder.co.uk" target="_blank">spamgard&#64;blueyonder.co.uk</a>&gt; skrev i meddelandet
&gt; news:yzztg.101105
&gt; (snip)
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Also:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher</a>'s stone
&gt;=20
&gt; I stand corrected.
&gt;=20
A kingly answer!


Henriette

Report this message

#140: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-16 13:50:22 by Henriette

Huan the hound schreef:
&gt;
&gt; Actually, if they aren't charging you to recycle, you're better off than
&gt; my parents. They pay to recycle. That is, they drive for 20 minutes and
&gt; pay a guy and then put their recyclables into the correct bins themselves.
&gt;
(snip)

We are not charged to recycle and we have several points in the city
where we can take harmful stuff to, but we also have to put our
recyclables into the correct bins ourselves. They are easily accessible
BTW... Also, once a month people come calling at everyone's door to ask
if you have any chemical recyclables, which you then have to bring out
and put into a car yourself.

We also have 3 bins on every streetcorner for glass, paper and 'other
waste'. The experiment wcith seperating organic waste has failed in my
neighbourhood, because people couldn't be bothered enough.

Henriette

Report this message

#141: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-16 14:37:58 by Henriette

Een Wilde Ier schreef:
&gt; Henriette wrote:

&gt; &gt; Part of Troels's wisdom must be the words of *our* national Dutch
&gt; &gt; pirate: Piet Hein, which Troels likes to quote;-)
&gt;
&gt; Who is Piet Hein?
&gt;
Piet Hein is a Dutch sea warrior of the 17th century without whom we
allegedly would now be a province of Spain. He is one of the few
historical persons every Dutch person knows, probably because his name
is mentioned in a song which is always sung during soccer-contests;-)
but also because he had a very colourful life (actually very many
elements of his life are found in Robin Hobb's Live Ship Traders
series...).

Troels' Piet Hein is actually a great-great-great-great grandson of our
Piet and a Danish writer/poet.

&gt; &gt;&gt;The title CAPTAIN OF THE GUARDS now passes to Raven. Congratulations, Raven! :-)
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt; I can already hear him from afar: &lt;whet whet whet whet&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Let's just hope that he doesn't shave hos own head off with that thing...
&gt;
While cursing in Barbarian and Latin...
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Henriette retains her title LADY OF THE GOLDEN WORDS. Congratulations, Henriette! :-)
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt; That is grand, thank you Morgoth's Curse! It must be my Silence of the
&gt; &gt; last few months (Silence is Golden) which made my title more fitting
&gt; &gt; than ever;-)
&gt;
&gt; Though I agree with the &quot;Golden Lady&quot; bit

(Here's an example of the famous 'Irish charm')

&gt;, I feel obliged to ask - silence? When? ;-)

That's what the tired Goldberry kept asking in the e-text...

HB

Report this message

#142: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-16 15:35:03 by jwkenne

Henriette wrote:
&gt; Troels' Piet Hein is actually a great-great-great-great grandson of our
&gt; Piet and a Danish writer/poet.

/scientist/mathematician/game designer/city planner/etc., etc., etc..

--
John W. Kennedy
&quot;The blind rulers of Logres
Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue.&quot;
-- Charles Williams. &quot;Taliessin through Logres: Prelude&quot;

Report this message

#143: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-16 15:47:15 by Een Wilde Ier

Henriette wrote:
&gt; Een Wilde Ier schreef:
&gt;&gt; Henriette wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Part of Troels's wisdom must be the words of *our* national Dutch
&gt;&gt;&gt; pirate: Piet Hein, which Troels likes to quote;-)
&gt;&gt; Who is Piet Hein?
&gt;&gt;
&gt; Piet Hein is a Dutch sea warrior of the 17th century without whom we
&gt; allegedly would now be a province of Spain. He is one of the few
&gt; historical persons every Dutch person knows, probably because his name
&gt; is mentioned in a song which is always sung during soccer-contests;-)
&gt; but also because he had a very colourful life (actually very many
&gt; elements of his life are found in Robin Hobb's Live Ship Traders
&gt; series...).

Ahhh, yes - the unfinished trilogy :-/

&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Henriette retains her title LADY OF THE GOLDEN WORDS. Congratulations, Henriette! :-)
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; That is grand, thank you Morgoth's Curse! It must be my Silence of the
&gt;&gt;&gt; last few months (Silence is Golden) which made my title more fitting
&gt;&gt;&gt; than ever;-)
&gt;&gt; Though I agree with the &quot;Golden Lady&quot; bit
&gt;
&gt; (Here's an example of the famous 'Irish charm')

Not all have it!

Report this message

#144: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-16 16:35:15 by Troels Forchhammer

In message
&lt;news:<a href="mailto:1153053478.864746.73420&#64;p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1153053478.864746.73420&#64;p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;
&quot;Henriette&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:heldenib&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">heldenib&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; enriched us with:
&gt;

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; Troels' Piet Hein is actually a great-great-great-great grandson
&gt; of our Piet and a Danish writer/poet.

Thanks -- I didn't remember how many greats he should have ;-)

The later Piet is, as we say, &quot;world-famous in Denmark&quot;, in particular
for his short poems, which he has named 'grooks' ('gruk' in Danish --
the vowel is slightly shorter, but otherwise it is pronounced the
same).

My grandmother used to say that he was a sour curmudgeon in real life,
which only goes to show that the relation between artist and art is not
always as direct as one might believe.

ObTolkien:
But only one's guardian Angel, or indeed God Himself,
could unravel the real relationship between personal facts
and an author's works. Not the author himself (though he
knows more than any investigator), and certainly not so-
called 'psychologists'.
[Letter #213 To Deborah Webster, October 1958]

--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is &lt;t.forch(a)email.dk&gt;

A common mistake people make when trying to design
something completely foolproof is to underestimate the
ingenuity of complete fools.
- Douglas Adams, /Mostly Harmless/

Report this message

#145: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update)

Posted on 2006-07-16 17:55:45 by Christopher Kreuzer

John W. Kennedy &lt;<a href="mailto:jwkenne&#64;attglobal.net" target="_blank">jwkenne&#64;attglobal.net</a>&gt; wrote:

&lt;snip&gt;

I noticed your sig:

&quot;The blind rulers of Logres
Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue.&quot;
-- Charles Williams. &quot;Taliessin through Logres: Prelude&quot;

Have you read much Charles Williams? I haven't read anything by him,
though I was fascinated by the description of him in Carpernter's
Inklings biography. I would have liked to hear him speak, as his
lecturing style sounds as if it was very engaging.

Christopher

--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard

Report this message

#146: Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update)

Posted on 2006-07-17 00:27:16 by Steve Hayes

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 15:55:45 GMT, &quot;Christopher Kreuzer&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:spamgard&#64;blueyonder.co.uk" target="_blank">spamgard&#64;blueyonder.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;John W. Kennedy &lt;<a href="mailto:jwkenne&#64;attglobal.net" target="_blank">jwkenne&#64;attglobal.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;
&gt;I noticed your sig:
&gt;
&gt;&quot;The blind rulers of Logres
&gt;Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue.&quot;
&gt; -- Charles Williams. &quot;Taliessin through Logres: Prelude&quot;
&gt;
&gt;Have you read much Charles Williams? I haven't read anything by him,
&gt;though I was fascinated by the description of him in Carpernter's
&gt;Inklings biography. I would have liked to hear him speak, as his
&gt;lecturing style sounds as if it was very engaging.

While never as popular as Tolkien or Lewis, Williams has an enthusiastic
following, but his books are difficult to get and rarely reprinted.

I haven't seen any in bookshops since the 1960s, and my copies are getting old
and battered.


--
Steve Hayes
Web: <a href="http://www.librarything.com/catalog/hayesstw" target="_blank">http://www.librarything.com/catalog/hayesstw</a>
<a href="http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Methodius" target="_blank">http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Methodius</a>

Report this message

#147: Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update)

Posted on 2006-07-17 00:34:46 by jwkenne

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
&gt; Have you read much Charles Williams?

Just about everything, except his non-Arthurian lyrics which (at least,
the last I looked) are only available in rare first editions

&gt; I haven't read anything by him,
&gt; though I was fascinated by the description of him in Carpernter's
&gt; Inklings biography. I would have liked to hear him speak, as his
&gt; lecturing style sounds as if it was very engaging.

They used to say he could (and did) make undergraduates positively
enthusiastic about chastity. (And he had to keep a stable of eligible
young men around him, so that he could dispose of all the young women
who were always falling in love with him, even though he looked like the
cartoon of the Ape that illustrates &quot;A lady fair, of lineage high&quot;.)

His poetry is difficult, as are his plays, but they are very rewarding.
His novels are what Stephen King would write if Stephen King were half
Shakespeare and half Julian of Norwich. His commentary on Dante is
mandatory reading, and his &quot;The English Poetic Mind&quot; opened the
Shakespearean door for me.

The first thing I always tell inexperienced actors is a phrase from one
of his novels, &quot;The Four Virtues [are] Clarity, Speed, Humility, and
Courage&quot;.

--
John W. Kennedy
&quot;What can be saved without order? and how order?
Compact is becoming contract; man only earns, and pays,
the house outside the City burns but the house within is enslaved.
What without coinage or with coinage can be saved?
O lady, your hand held the bread
and Christ the City spread in the extensor muscles of your thumbs.
Say - can the law live?
can the dead king's head live?
Pray, mother of children, pray for the coins,
pray for Camelot, pray for the king, pray.&quot;
-- Charles Williams. &quot;Bors to Elayne: On the King's Coins&quot;

Report this message

#148: Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update)

Posted on 2006-07-17 01:04:07 by Christopher Kreuzer

John W. Kennedy &lt;<a href="mailto:jwkenne&#64;attglobal.net" target="_blank">jwkenne&#64;attglobal.net</a>&gt; wrote:

[Charles Williams]

&gt; His commentary on Dante is mandatory reading, and his &quot;The English
&gt; Poetic Mind&quot; opened the Shakespearean door for me.

Aha! The commentary on Dante might tie in to the recent threads about
Tolkien and Lewis and what they read and said about Dante.

Looking, again, at your sig, I like the quote except for:

&quot;Christ the City spread in the extensor muscles of your thumbs&quot;

Maybe I'm missing something here, but to me that is a poorly
constructed, if not downright clumsy, metaphor.

Christopher

--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard

Report this message

#149: Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update)

Posted on 2006-07-17 01:09:37 by Larry Swain

Steve Hayes wrote:
&gt; On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 15:55:45 GMT, &quot;Christopher Kreuzer&quot;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:spamgard&#64;blueyonder.co.uk" target="_blank">spamgard&#64;blueyonder.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;John W. Kennedy &lt;<a href="mailto:jwkenne&#64;attglobal.net" target="_blank">jwkenne&#64;attglobal.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;I noticed your sig:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&quot;The blind rulers of Logres
&gt;&gt;Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue.&quot;
&gt;&gt; -- Charles Williams. &quot;Taliessin through Logres: Prelude&quot;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Have you read much Charles Williams? I haven't read anything by him,
&gt;&gt;though I was fascinated by the description of him in Carpernter's
&gt;&gt;Inklings biography. I would have liked to hear him speak, as his
&gt;&gt;lecturing style sounds as if it was very engaging.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; While never as popular as Tolkien or Lewis, Williams has an enthusiastic
&gt; following, but his books are difficult to get and rarely reprinted.
&gt;
&gt; I haven't seen any in bookshops since the 1960s, and my copies are getting old
&gt; and battered.
&gt;
&gt;
I love Williams' novels! Great stuff, if you go in for that sort of
thing. Anyway, at least here in the US his books remain in print. Wm.
Eerdman's keeps them in print and you should be able to find copies
easily enough. Or if you ask really nicely ;) since I'll be over in
your neck of the woods in late Sept., I can bring a volume or two with
me and post them to you from GB and save you the overseas shipping.

Report this message

#150: Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update)

Posted on 2006-07-17 01:11:50 by Larry Swain

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
&gt; John W. Kennedy &lt;<a href="mailto:jwkenne&#64;attglobal.net" target="_blank">jwkenne&#64;attglobal.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; [Charles Williams]
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;His commentary on Dante is mandatory reading, and his &quot;The English
&gt;&gt;Poetic Mind&quot; opened the Shakespearean door for me.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Aha! The commentary on Dante might tie in to the recent threads about
&gt; Tolkien and Lewis and what they read and said about Dante.
&gt;
&gt; Looking, again, at your sig, I like the quote except for:
&gt;
&gt; &quot;Christ the City spread in the extensor muscles of your thumbs&quot;
&gt;
&gt; Maybe I'm missing something here, but to me that is a poorly
&gt; constructed, if not downright clumsy, metaphor.
&gt;
&gt; Christopher
&gt;

William's Dante material is good reading, but had little impact that I
can see on either Lewis or Tolkien, both of whom read Dante some years
before they ever met Williams. As I recall Tolkien and Lewis read the
text together c. 1930 and Williams didn't come on the scene until the
early '40s.

Report this message

#151: Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update)

Posted on 2006-07-17 01:50:01 by jwkenne

Larry Swain wrote:
&gt; William's Dante material is good reading, but had little impact that I
&gt; can see on either Lewis or Tolkien, both of whom read Dante some years
&gt; before they ever met Williams. As I recall Tolkien and Lewis read the
&gt; text together c. 1930 and Williams didn't come on the scene until the
&gt; early '40s.

Williams had little influence on Tolkien (it was in the context of this
very question, I believe, that Lewis said that Tolkien could no more be
influenced than could a bandersnatch), but he had considerable influence
on Lewis. &quot;That Hideous Strength&quot; is more nearly in Williams' style than
Lewis's own. (And if you want to read Williams' difficult poems about
Arthur, in the volumes &quot;Taliessin Through Logres&quot; and &quot;The Region of the
Summer Stars&quot;, you should read Lewis's commentary, in &quot;Arthurian Torso&quot;.)

Among other writers heavily influenced by Williams are Dorothy L. Sayers
(in the post-Wimsey years) and Christopher Fry. (Which means that J.
Michael Straczynski has been influenced by Williams at one remove, since
the debt of &quot;Sic Transit Vir&quot; to &quot;The Lady's Not For Burning&quot; is pretty
obvious.)

I'd write like Williams, myself, if I dared.

--
John W. Kennedy
&quot;The blind rulers of Logres
Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue.&quot;
-- Charles Williams. &quot;Taliessin through Logres: Prelude&quot;

Report this message

#152: Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update)

Posted on 2006-07-17 01:50:49 by jwkenne

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
&gt; John W. Kennedy &lt;<a href="mailto:jwkenne&#64;attglobal.net" target="_blank">jwkenne&#64;attglobal.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; [Charles Williams]
&gt;
&gt;&gt; His commentary on Dante is mandatory reading, and his &quot;The English
&gt;&gt; Poetic Mind&quot; opened the Shakespearean door for me.
&gt;
&gt; Aha! The commentary on Dante might tie in to the recent threads about
&gt; Tolkien and Lewis and what they read and said about Dante.
&gt;
&gt; Looking, again, at your sig, I like the quote except for:
&gt;
&gt; &quot;Christ the City spread in the extensor muscles of your thumbs&quot;
&gt;
&gt; Maybe I'm missing something here, but to me that is a poorly
&gt; constructed, if not downright clumsy, metaphor.

In its proper context (this is, after all, only the last half page of a
three-page poem), the line is actually absolutely devastating. You will
scarcely believe it when I tell you that an even more devastating line,
earlier in the poem, is &quot;Money is a medium of exchange,&quot; but it is.

--
John W. Kennedy
&quot;The blind rulers of Logres
Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue.&quot;
-- Charles Williams. &quot;Taliessin through Logres: Prelude&quot;

Report this message

#153: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-17 02:06:40 by Odysseus

In article &lt;zhrug.9311$<a href="mailto:F_6.2319&#64;fe12.lga" target="_blank">F_6.2319&#64;fe12.lga</a>&gt;,
&quot;John W. Kennedy&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:jwkenne&#64;attglobal.net" target="_blank">jwkenne&#64;attglobal.net</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; Henriette wrote:
&gt; &gt; Troels' Piet Hein is actually a great-great-great-great grandson of our
&gt; &gt; Piet and a Danish writer/poet.
&gt;
&gt; /scientist/mathematician/game designer/city planner/etc., etc., etc..

When I was a kid I had a puzzle he'd designed, called &quot;Soma&quot;. Something
like a three-dimensional tangram, it consisted of seven different shapes
(polycubes, analogous to polyominoes), each comprising three or four
small cubes, that could be assembled into a large (3x3) cube and other
shapes.

The prolific German typographer Hermann Zapf incorporated the &quot;Lamé
superellipse&quot;, a figure popularized by Hein, into the letterforms of his
typeface _Melior_.

--
Odysseus

Report this message

#154: Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update)

Posted on 2006-07-17 05:26:22 by Count Menelvagor

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
&gt; John W. Kennedy &lt;<a href="mailto:jwkenne&#64;attglobal.net" target="_blank">jwkenne&#64;attglobal.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; [Charles Williams]
&gt;
&gt; &gt; His commentary on Dante is mandatory reading, and his &quot;The English
&gt; &gt; Poetic Mind&quot; opened the Shakespearean door for me.
&gt;
&gt; Aha! The commentary on Dante might tie in to the recent threads about
&gt; Tolkien and Lewis and what they read and said about Dante.
&gt;
&gt; Looking, again, at your sig, I like the quote except for:
&gt;
&gt; &quot;Christ the City spread in the extensor muscles of your thumbs&quot;
&gt;
&gt; Maybe I'm missing something here, but to me that is a poorly
&gt; constructed, if not downright clumsy, metaphor.

i'm reminded of elliott's simile &quot;an evening like a patient under an
anaesthtic&quot; or words to that effect. bheh.

tolkien, btw, once wrote a poem more or less gently mocking CW,
especially some of the weird symbolism in &quot;taliessin through logres.&quot;

my favourite of CW's novels is &quot;many dimensions,&quot; a SF novel about
prime matter, time travel, and other things. &quot;all hallows eve&quot; is also
enjoyable. some of the others, like &quot;war in heaven,&quot; get a bit carried
away with gruesome details about satanic rituals, etc. (so does his
non-fiction work on witchcraft, which, however, is very interesting.).

Report this message

#155: Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update)

Posted on 2006-07-17 06:37:48 by Larry Swain

John W. Kennedy wrote:
&gt; Larry Swain wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; William's Dante material is good reading, but had little impact that I
&gt;&gt; can see on either Lewis or Tolkien, both of whom read Dante some years
&gt;&gt; before they ever met Williams. As I recall Tolkien and Lewis read the
&gt;&gt; text together c. 1930 and Williams didn't come on the scene until the
&gt;&gt; early '40s.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Williams had little influence on Tolkien (it was in the context of this
&gt; very question, I believe, that Lewis said that Tolkien could no more be
&gt; influenced than could a bandersnatch), but he had considerable influence
&gt; on Lewis. &quot;That Hideous Strength&quot; is more nearly in Williams' style than
&gt; Lewis's own.

Completely agree, but the point I was making was specifically about
Williams' commentary on Dante, The Figure of Beatrice, and his theology
of love not having specific influence on Tolkien or Lewis (though Lewis
is certainly heavily influenced by Dante).

(And if you want to read Williams' difficult poems about
&gt; Arthur, in the volumes &quot;Taliessin Through Logres&quot; and &quot;The Region of the
&gt; Summer Stars&quot;, you should read Lewis's commentary, in &quot;Arthurian Torso&quot;.)

Yes, but again, the point was about Williams' Dante material. Good to
have this brought into the discussion.

&gt;
&gt; Among other writers heavily influenced by Williams are Dorothy L. Sayers
&gt; (in the post-Wimsey years)

Yes, and in particular in Sayers own commentaries on Dante.

and Christopher Fry. (Which means that J.
&gt; Michael Straczynski has been influenced by Williams at one remove, since
&gt; the debt of &quot;Sic Transit Vir&quot; to &quot;The Lady's Not For Burning&quot; is pretty
&gt; obvious.)
&gt;
&gt; I'd write like Williams, myself, if I dared.
&gt;

Report this message

#156: Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update)

Posted on 2006-07-17 08:05:35 by Steve Hayes

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 23:04:07 GMT, &quot;Christopher Kreuzer&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:spamgard&#64;blueyonder.co.uk" target="_blank">spamgard&#64;blueyonder.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;John W. Kennedy &lt;<a href="mailto:jwkenne&#64;attglobal.net" target="_blank">jwkenne&#64;attglobal.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;[Charles Williams]
&gt;
&gt;&gt; His commentary on Dante is mandatory reading, and his &quot;The English
&gt;&gt; Poetic Mind&quot; opened the Shakespearean door for me.
&gt;
&gt;Aha! The commentary on Dante might tie in to the recent threads about
&gt;Tolkien and Lewis and what they read and said about Dante.

The commentary on Dante is being posted in instalments in the Williams mailing
list (<a href="mailto:coinherence-l&#64;yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">coinherence-l&#64;yahoogroups.com</a>), and his poetry is benig discussed there
at the moment too.

See also <a href="http://www.coinherence.faithweb.com/" target="_blank">http://www.coinherence.faithweb.com/</a>




&gt;
&gt;Looking, again, at your sig, I like the quote except for:
&gt;
&gt;&quot;Christ the City spread in the extensor muscles of your thumbs&quot;
&gt;
&gt;Maybe I'm missing something here, but to me that is a poorly
&gt;constructed, if not downright clumsy, metaphor.
&gt;
&gt;Christopher

--
Steve Hayes
Web: <a href="http://www.librarything.com/catalog/hayesstw" target="_blank">http://www.librarything.com/catalog/hayesstw</a>
<a href="http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Methodius" target="_blank">http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Methodius</a>

Report this message

#157: Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update)

Posted on 2006-07-17 08:14:22 by Steve Hayes

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:09:37 -0500, Larry Swain &lt;<a href="mailto:theswain&#64;operamail.com" target="_blank">theswain&#64;operamail.com</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;Steve Hayes wrote:
&gt;&gt; While never as popular as Tolkien or Lewis, Williams has an enthusiastic
&gt;&gt; following, but his books are difficult to get and rarely reprinted.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I haven't seen any in bookshops since the 1960s, and my copies are getting old
&gt;&gt; and battered.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;I love Williams' novels! Great stuff, if you go in for that sort of
&gt;thing. Anyway, at least here in the US his books remain in print. Wm.
&gt;Eerdman's keeps them in print and you should be able to find copies
&gt;easily enough. Or if you ask really nicely ;) since I'll be over in
&gt;your neck of the woods in late Sept., I can bring a volume or two with
&gt;me and post them to you from GB and save you the overseas shipping.

Thanks very much for the offer, but I'm not in GB, so it would still be
overseas. But fiction by US publishers is rarely sold here in South Africa
(some sort of cartel agreement between US and British publishers) and so even
if they are still in pint, it is unlikely that we'll see them in the
bookshops, most of which cater only for the most Philistine of tastes.

We see Stephen King in profusion (British editions, naturally), but Phil
Rickman is hard to find, even though he is a British author, and williams is
impossible.

But as someone else remarked, anyone who enjoyed Lewis's &quot;That hideous
strength&quot; should appreciate Williams.


--
Steve Hayes
Web: <a href="http://www.librarything.com/catalog/hayesstw" target="_blank">http://www.librarything.com/catalog/hayesstw</a>
<a href="http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Methodius" target="_blank">http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Methodius</a>

Report this message

#158: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-17 10:02:45 by Taemon

Een Wilde Ier wrote:

&gt; Henriette wrote:
&gt;&gt; Een Wilde Ier schreef:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Henriette wrote:
&gt;&gt; Piet Hein is a Dutch sea warrior of the 17th century without
&gt;&gt; whom we allegedly would now be a province of Spain. He is one of
&gt;&gt; the few historical persons every Dutch person knows, probably
&gt;&gt; because his name is mentioned in a song which is always sung
&gt;&gt; during soccer-contests;-) but also because he had a very
&gt;&gt; colourful life (actually very many elements of his life are
&gt;&gt; found in Robin Hobb's Live Ship Traders series...).

They are? Well! Who'd have thought!

&gt; Ahhh, yes - the unfinished trilogy :-/

I read them all?

T.

Report this message

#159: Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update)

Posted on 2006-07-17 15:55:22 by TT Arvind

Wes =F0u Steve Hayes hal!

&gt; While never as popular as Tolkien or Lewis, Williams has an enthusiastic
&gt; following, but his books are difficult to get and rarely reprinted.=20

I like Williams' books very much. They're a little easier to get hold=20
of now, thanks to the internet. Amazon.co.uk stocks many of his books. =20
Amazon.com also ships his books internationally, and their shipping=20
rates aren't too bad.

His work has passed into the public domain in Australia, and etexts of=20
some of his works are thus also available through the website of=20
Project Gutenburg's Australian chapter. Only for those lucky enough to=20
live Down Under, alas, it'd be a breach of copyright to download them=20
anywhere else.

--=20
Arvind

Report this message

#160: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-17 16:02:31 by Cadwalader Balrog-Humphries

Count Menelvagor wrote:

&gt; &gt; I've previously considered explaining Tom using quantum mechanics -
&gt; &gt; except that I couldn't explain the stumping. Although it does elegantly
&gt; &gt; explain the ring interaction and apparent ability to move at near
&gt; &gt; relativistic velocity.
&gt;=20
&gt; nonsense. tom bombadil was a tectonic plate.

You mean a dinner plate, my dear fellow, a dinner plate. Perfect to=20
spread out a meal of braised dwarf and lightly fried noldo-a-la-&amp;=A3$#@.

Incidentally, you can get a copy of &quot;101 wing-smackingly delicious=20
secrets of the Balrog kitchen&quot; at a special discount if you make a=20
small donation to the Valaraukar Institute today.


regards,

Cadwalader Balrog-Humphries
Acting Director
The Valaraukar Institute

Report this message

#161: Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update)

Posted on 2006-07-17 16:46:41 by Larry Swain

Steve Hayes wrote:
&gt; On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:09:37 -0500, Larry Swain &lt;<a href="mailto:theswain&#64;operamail.com" target="_blank">theswain&#64;operamail.com</a>&gt;
&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Steve Hayes wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;While never as popular as Tolkien or Lewis, Williams has an enthusiastic
&gt;&gt;&gt;following, but his books are difficult to get and rarely reprinted.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;I haven't seen any in bookshops since the 1960s, and my copies are getting old
&gt;&gt;&gt;and battered.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;I love Williams' novels! Great stuff, if you go in for that sort of
&gt;&gt;thing. Anyway, at least here in the US his books remain in print. Wm.
&gt;&gt;Eerdman's keeps them in print and you should be able to find copies
&gt;&gt;easily enough. Or if you ask really nicely ;) since I'll be over in
&gt;&gt;your neck of the woods in late Sept., I can bring a volume or two with
&gt;&gt;me and post them to you from GB and save you the overseas shipping.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Thanks very much for the offer, but I'm not in GB, so it would still be
&gt; overseas. But fiction by US publishers is rarely sold here in South Africa
&gt; (some sort of cartel agreement between US and British publishers) and so even
&gt; if they are still in pint, it is unlikely that we'll see them in the
&gt; bookshops, most of which cater only for the most Philistine of tastes.


Ah, sorry about that. Try a service like abebooks or tomfolio that have
international connections. They may be able to find used copies for you
to send.

&gt;
&gt; We see Stephen King in profusion (British editions, naturally), but Phil
&gt; Rickman is hard to find, even though he is a British author, and williams is
&gt; impossible.
&gt;
&gt; But as someone else remarked, anyone who enjoyed Lewis's &quot;That hideous
&gt; strength&quot; should appreciate Williams.
&gt;
&gt;

Report this message

#162: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-17 17:04:25 by Een Wilde Ier

Taemon wrote:
&gt; Een Wilde Ier wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Henriette wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Een Wilde Ier schreef:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Henriette wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Piet Hein is a Dutch sea warrior of the 17th century without
&gt;&gt;&gt; whom we allegedly would now be a province of Spain. He is one of
&gt;&gt;&gt; the few historical persons every Dutch person knows, probably
&gt;&gt;&gt; because his name is mentioned in a song which is always sung
&gt;&gt;&gt; during soccer-contests;-) but also because he had a very
&gt;&gt;&gt; colourful life (actually very many elements of his life are
&gt;&gt;&gt; found in Robin Hobb's Live Ship Traders series...).
&gt;
&gt; They are? Well! Who'd have thought!
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Ahhh, yes - the unfinished trilogy :-/
&gt;
&gt; I read them all?

Seriously, there's no proper conclusion at the back of the third book.
Most disappointing.

(p.s. no-one spoil the ending for others, please)

Report this message

#163: Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update)

Posted on 2006-07-17 19:01:27 by bredband.net

&quot;Larry Swain&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:theswain&#64;operamail.com" target="_blank">theswain&#64;operamail.com</a>&gt; skrev i meddelandet
news:<a href="mailto:Z_qdneUmvaOFiSbZnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d&#64;rcn.net..." target="_blank">Z_qdneUmvaOFiSbZnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d&#64;rcn.net...</a>

[snip]

&gt;&gt; Among other writers heavily influenced by Williams are Dorothy L. Sayers
&gt;&gt; (in the post-Wimsey years)

The period when Sayers tried (unsuccessfully) to become what she regarded as
a &quot;serious writer&quot;. She simply did not have the mental equipment for it.
(Has anyone tried to read her &quot;Thrones, Dominions&quot;? If not, don't bother. It
is terrible stuff.) Her commentary on Dante is a case in point. It is widely
acknwledged that the second half of Purgatorio and all of Paradiso are
terribly boring to read - one protracted yawn. Sayers olympically declared
that people who complained about how uninteresting those parts of the Divine
Comedy were simply &quot;read them for the wrong reasons&quot; - as poetry instead of
as religious instruction. But the fact is, of course, that people looking
for religious instruction should not turn to a 14th century Florentine poet
whose quality was not in the theological field, but as a poet. His religious
instruction is, not to put too fine a point on it, outdated and, from the
outset, badly skewed. It included a considerable amount of settling accounts
with any enemy of Florence, or of the party he had sided with in Florence,
as well as his personal enemies. There are books which give straightforward
religious instruction - lots of them, from all ages, much better than Dante
could. Where Dante fails as a poet, what he writes is a failure in all
aspects.

Öjevind

Report this message

#164: Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update)

Posted on 2006-07-17 19:52:21 by psperson

&lt;I don't normally post to multiple newsgroups, but all three appear
reasonable and I don't know which one the OP is reading&gt;

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 08:14:22 +0200, Steve Hayes
&lt;<a href="mailto:hayesmstw&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">hayesmstw&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Thanks very much for the offer, but I'm not in GB, so it would still be
&gt;overseas. But fiction by US publishers is rarely sold here in South Africa
&gt;(some sort of cartel agreement between US and British publishers) and so even
&gt;if they are still in pint, it is unlikely that we'll see them in the
&gt;bookshops, most of which cater only for the most Philistine of tastes.

In addition to purchasing on the Internet (or trying to special-order
through a book store), do you have/have you tried religious
bookstores? I am fairly certain that most if not all of the CS Lewis I
own and the Charles Williams set that I own were purchased in a
religious bookstore, not a general bookstore. Of course, that was in
the USA and 40-50 years ago so I have no idea if this idea would apply
to your location today.
&quot;I find that a great many things which have been conclusively
demonstrated by the Ancients are unintelligible to the
bulk of the Moderns owing to their ignorance&quot;

Report this message

#165: Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update)

Posted on 2006-07-17 20:34:53 by jwkenne

Öjevind Lång wrote:
&gt; The period when Sayers tried (unsuccessfully) to become what she regarded as
&gt; a &quot;serious writer&quot;. She simply did not have the mental equipment for it.

Rubbish. She was one of the first women to earn an Oxford MA.

&gt; (Has anyone tried to read her &quot;Thrones, Dominions&quot;? If not, don't bother. It
&gt; is terrible stuff.)

And where, pray, did you read that unpublished and unfinished manuscript?

&gt; Her commentary on Dante is a case in point. It is widely
&gt; acknwledged that the second half of Purgatorio and all of Paradiso are
&gt; terribly boring to read - one protracted yawn.

....which is why it's survived as a masterpiece for seven centuries, no
doubt.

&gt; Sayers olympically declared
&gt; that people who complained about how uninteresting those parts of the Divine
&gt; Comedy were simply &quot;read them for the wrong reasons&quot; - as poetry instead of
&gt; as religious instruction.

No, she does not say that. She says that people go looking for gruesome
guts and are disappointed when they don't find them, and explicitly
states that the Purgatorio and Paradiso are superior to the Inferno /as/
/poetry/.

&gt; But the fact is, of course, that people looking
&gt; for religious instruction should not turn to a 14th century Florentine poet
&gt; whose quality was not in the theological field, but as a poet.

Which is why she (who wrote &quot;The Mind of the Maker&quot;, after all) makes no
such ridiculous claim. On the contrary, she goes to some effort to
explain the religious doctrine that Dante expects his readers to already
have some knowledge of, to this benighted and ignorant age.

&gt; His religious
&gt; instruction is, not to put too fine a point on it, outdated

Not particularly, unless you regard Christianity itself as &quot;outdated&quot;,
in which case I scarcely dare ask what gimcrack new &quot;prophet&quot; you are
leaning on to justify the claim.

&gt; and, from the
&gt; outset, badly skewed. It included a considerable amount of settling accounts
&gt; with any enemy of Florence, or of the party he had sided with in Florence,
&gt; as well as his personal enemies.

....which is, of course, /not/ religious instruction.

&gt; There are books which give straightforward
&gt; religious instruction - lots of them, from all ages, much better than Dante
&gt; could. Where Dante fails as a poet, what he writes is a failure in all
&gt; aspects.

If Dante had failed as a poet as spectacularly as you seem to have
failed as a critic, he would have been forgotten long ago.

--
John W. Kennedy
&quot;The blind rulers of Logres
Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue.&quot;
-- Charles Williams. &quot;Taliessin through Logres: Prelude&quot;

Report this message

#166: Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update)

Posted on 2006-07-17 21:09:28 by Steve Hayes

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 17:52:21 GMT, Paul S. Person
&lt;<a href="mailto:psperson&#64;ix.netscom.com.invalid" target="_blank">psperson&#64;ix.netscom.com.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;&lt;I don't normally post to multiple newsgroups, but all three appear
&gt;reasonable and I don't know which one the OP is reading&gt;
&gt;
&gt;On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 08:14:22 +0200, Steve Hayes
&gt;&lt;<a href="mailto:hayesmstw&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">hayesmstw&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Thanks very much for the offer, but I'm not in GB, so it would still be
&gt;&gt;overseas. But fiction by US publishers is rarely sold here in South Africa
&gt;&gt;(some sort of cartel agreement between US and British publishers) and so even
&gt;&gt;if they are still in pint, it is unlikely that we'll see them in the
&gt;&gt;bookshops, most of which cater only for the most Philistine of tastes.
&gt;
&gt;In addition to purchasing on the Internet (or trying to special-order
&gt;through a book store), do you have/have you tried religious
&gt;bookstores? I am fairly certain that most if not all of the CS Lewis I
&gt;own and the Charles Williams set that I own were purchased in a
&gt;religious bookstore, not a general bookstore. Of course, that was in
&gt;the USA and 40-50 years ago so I have no idea if this idea would apply
&gt;to your location today.

Most of my Charles Williams books were bought in general book stores 40-50
years ago, but they are not available in any today.

It is difficult for them to become more popular if they are unavailable.

One can recommend a book to people, and if they see it in a bookshop they
might look at it and buy it. But if they have to order it from overseas, even
through an outfit like Amazon, most won't bother.

My wife bought a book from Amazon recently, because she hadn't seen any
available here, but that was because she had already read it, and had lost her
copy. I need a new copy of &quot;Place of the lion&quot;, and might order it from Amazon
one of these days. But that doesn't encourage new readers.


--
Steve Hayes
Web: <a href="http://www.librarything.com/catalog/hayesstw" target="_blank">http://www.librarything.com/catalog/hayesstw</a>
<a href="http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Methodius" target="_blank">http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Methodius</a>

Report this message

#167: Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update)

Posted on 2006-07-17 21:57:20 by Larry Swain

John W. Kennedy wrote:
&gt; Öjevind Lång wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; The period when Sayers tried (unsuccessfully) to become what she
&gt;&gt; regarded as a &quot;serious writer&quot;. She simply did not have the mental
&gt;&gt; equipment for it.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Rubbish. She was one of the first women to earn an Oxford MA.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; (Has anyone tried to read her &quot;Thrones, Dominions&quot;? If not, don't
&gt;&gt; bother. It is terrible stuff.)
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; And where, pray, did you read that unpublished and unfinished manuscript?
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Her commentary on Dante is a case in point. It is widely acknwledged
&gt;&gt; that the second half of Purgatorio and all of Paradiso are terribly
&gt;&gt; boring to read - one protracted yawn.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; ...which is why it's survived as a masterpiece for seven centuries, no
&gt; doubt.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Sayers olympically declared that people who complained about how
&gt;&gt; uninteresting those parts of the Divine Comedy were simply &quot;read them
&gt;&gt; for the wrong reasons&quot; - as poetry instead of as religious instruction.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; No, she does not say that. She says that people go looking for gruesome
&gt; guts and are disappointed when they don't find them, and explicitly
&gt; states that the Purgatorio and Paradiso are superior to the Inferno /as/
&gt; /poetry/.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; But the fact is, of course, that people looking for religious
&gt;&gt; instruction should not turn to a 14th century Florentine poet whose
&gt;&gt; quality was not in the theological field, but as a poet.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Which is why she (who wrote &quot;The Mind of the Maker&quot;, after all) makes no
&gt; such ridiculous claim. On the contrary, she goes to some effort to
&gt; explain the religious doctrine that Dante expects his readers to already
&gt; have some knowledge of, to this benighted and ignorant age.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; His religious instruction is, not to put too fine a point on it, outdated
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Not particularly, unless you regard Christianity itself as &quot;outdated&quot;,
&gt; in which case I scarcely dare ask what gimcrack new &quot;prophet&quot; you are
&gt; leaning on to justify the claim.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; and, from the outset, badly skewed. It included a considerable amount
&gt;&gt; of settling accounts with any enemy of Florence, or of the party he
&gt;&gt; had sided with in Florence, as well as his personal enemies.

All this very well said, John. Thanks, saved me the trouble of making
the response. Well done indeed.

Report this message

#168: Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update)

Posted on 2006-07-18 01:43:46 by bredband.net

&quot;John W. Kennedy&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:jwkenne&#64;attglobal.net" target="_blank">jwkenne&#64;attglobal.net</a>&gt; skrev i meddelandet
news:JMQug.33$<a href="mailto:BB4.12&#64;fe10.lga..." target="_blank">BB4.12&#64;fe10.lga...</a>
&gt; Öjevind Lång wrote:
&gt;&gt; The period when Sayers tried (unsuccessfully) to become what she regarded
&gt;&gt; as a &quot;serious writer&quot;. She simply did not have the mental equipment for
&gt;&gt; it.
&gt;
&gt; Rubbish. She was one of the first women to earn an Oxford MA.

I did not question her intelligence, only her ability to write &quot;real
literature&quot;.

&gt;&gt; (Has anyone tried to read her &quot;Thrones, Dominions&quot;? If not, don't bother.
&gt;&gt; It is terrible stuff.)
&gt;
&gt; And where, pray, did you read that unpublished and unfinished manuscript?

It was finished by Jill Paton Walsh some years ago and then published in
Britain. I am sure you can get hold of it if you are interested.

&gt;&gt; Her commentary on Dante is a case in point. It is widely acknwledged that
&gt;&gt; the second half of Purgatorio and all of Paradiso are terribly boring to
&gt;&gt; read - one protracted yawn.
&gt;
&gt; ...which is why it's survived as a masterpiece for seven centuries, no
&gt; doubt.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Sayers olympically declared that people who complained about how
&gt;&gt; uninteresting those parts of the Divine Comedy were simply &quot;read them for
&gt;&gt; the wrong reasons&quot; - as poetry instead of as religious instruction.
&gt;
&gt; No, she does not say that. She says that people go looking for gruesome
&gt; guts and are disappointed when they don't find them, and explicitly states
&gt; that the Purgatorio and Paradiso are superior to the Inferno /as/
&gt; /poetry/.

I have read what she wrote, and I'm afraid your memory is slightly at fault
here. She explicitly says that Purgatorio and Paradiso have merit because of
their theological content. Somehow, it seems, she thought this religious
excellence automatically becomes poetic excellence. It is true that she
accuses those (the overwhelming majority of readers) who found the secod
half of Purgatorio and all of Paradiso boring of &quot;wanting to read about
gruesome guts&quot;. That simply isn't true. What is true is that for some
reason, Dante was better at writing interestingly about evil, or about
people who were at least morally dubious, than about saints and angelic
beings.
*No one* without an ideological agenda has ever been able to regard the
latter half of Purgatorio, and all of Paradiso, as anything other than one
huge yawn.

&gt;&gt; But the fact is, of course, that people looking for religious instruction
&gt;&gt; should not turn to a 14th century Florentine poet whose quality was not
&gt;&gt; in the theological field, but as a poet.
&gt;
&gt; Which is why she (who wrote &quot;The Mind of the Maker&quot;, after all) makes no
&gt; such ridiculous claim. On the contrary, she goes to some effort to explain
&gt; the religious doctrine that Dante expects his readers to already have some
&gt; knowledge of, to this benighted and ignorant age.

I disagree with you. I maintain that Dante's age was much more benighted and
ignorant than ours. Crusades, the Inquisition, the persecution of Jews and
heretics, the witch hunts, the barbarous torture and executions, feudalism,
the indulgence racket, this and that.

&gt;&gt; His religious instruction is, not to put too fine a point on it, outdated
&gt;
&gt; Not particularly, unless you regard Christianity itself as &quot;outdated&quot;, in
&gt; which case I scarcely dare ask what gimcrack new &quot;prophet&quot; you are leaning
&gt; on to justify the claim.

When Dante wrote the Comedy, he was settling lots of old scores. He also had
some theological stances that are not really in line with modern Christian
thought. Religions evolve, including Catholicism.

&gt;&gt; and, from the outset, badly skewed. It included a considerable amount of
&gt;&gt; settling accounts with any enemy of Florence, or of the party he had
&gt;&gt; sided with in Florence, as well as his personal enemies.
&gt;
&gt; ...which is, of course, /not/ religious instruction.

Exactly! From an &quot;ideas&quot; POV, the Comedy consists of old political grudges
and outdated theology.

&gt;&gt; There are books which give straightforward religious instruction - lots
&gt;&gt; of them, from all ages, much better than Dante could. Where Dante fails
&gt;&gt; as a poet, what he writes is a failure in all aspects.
&gt;
&gt; If Dante had failed as a poet as spectacularly as you seem to have failed
&gt; as a critic, he would have been forgotten long ago.

I did not say that all of the Comedy sucks. Inferno and the first half of
Purgatorio are excellent literature. I'm not in any way unique when saying
that; it is the generally held opinion.
If anything, I'd say that you have failed as a person able to grasp what a
post actually says.

Ö. Lång

Report this message

#169: Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update)

Posted on 2006-07-18 01:55:41 by RPN

=D6jevind L=E5ng wrote:

&gt; *No one* without an ideological agenda has ever been able to regard the
&gt; latter half of Purgatorio, and all of Paradiso, as anything other than one
&gt; huge yawn.

I, for one, am a living disproof of your categorical statement.

RPN (who will maintain that the *Paradiso* contains the best poetry in
the *Commedia*)

Report this message

#170: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-18 03:35:49 by pseudonimofaqhater

Cadwalader Balrog-Humphries wrote:
&gt; Count Menelvagor wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; I've previously considered explaining Tom using quantum mechanics -
&gt; &gt; &gt; except that I couldn't explain the stumping. Although it does elegant=
ly
&gt; &gt; &gt; explain the ring interaction and apparent ability to move at near
&gt; &gt; &gt; relativistic velocity.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; nonsense. tom bombadil was a tectonic plate.
&gt;
&gt; You mean a dinner plate, my dear fellow, a dinner plate. Perfect to
&gt; spread out a meal of braised dwarf and lightly fried noldo-a-la-&amp;=A3$#@.
&gt;
&gt; Incidentally, you can get a copy of &quot;101 wing-smackingly delicious
&gt; secrets of the Balrog kitchen&quot; at a special discount if you make a
&gt; small donation to the Valaraukar Institute today.

Give the money to FATS instead. Balrog cuisine is disgusting.
<a href="http://count.teunc.org/rogs.html" target="_blank">http://count.teunc.org/rogs.html</a> made me faint.

Report this message

#171: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-18 03:44:15 by pseudonimofaqhater

Pseudonymus al-Faqha'ter III wrote:
&gt; Cadwalader Balrog-Humphries wrote:
&gt; &gt; Count Menelvagor wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I've previously considered explaining Tom using quantum mechanics -
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; except that I couldn't explain the stumping. Although it does elega=
ntly
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; explain the ring interaction and apparent ability to move at near
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; relativistic velocity.
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; nonsense. tom bombadil was a tectonic plate.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; You mean a dinner plate, my dear fellow, a dinner plate. Perfect to
&gt; &gt; spread out a meal of braised dwarf and lightly fried noldo-a-la-&amp;=A3$#@.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Incidentally, you can get a copy of &quot;101 wing-smackingly delicious
&gt; &gt; secrets of the Balrog kitchen&quot; at a special discount if you make a
&gt; &gt; small donation to the Valaraukar Institute today.
&gt;
&gt; Give the money to FATS instead. Balrog cuisine is disgusting.
&gt; <a href="http://count.teunc.org/rogs.html" target="_blank">http://count.teunc.org/rogs.html</a> made me faint.

Yes, th most shocking 404 ever made.

The actual site is even worse: <a href="http://count.teunc.org/rogs/rogs.html." target="_blank">http://count.teunc.org/rogs/rogs.html.</a>
For some reason, balrog cuisine is viewed as a &quot;useful&quot; fact. Perhaps
if you're a poisoner.

By the way, please send FATS $150 today if you want to learn what the
one true evaluation of Dante's poetry is.

Report this message

#172: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-18 10:39:45 by Taemon

Een Wilde Ier wrote:

&gt; Taemon wrote:
&gt;&gt; Een Wilde Ier wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Ahhh, yes - the unfinished trilogy :-/
&gt;&gt; I read them all?
&gt; Seriously, there's no proper conclusion at the back of the third
&gt; book. Most disappointing.

Oh? I don't remember that. It's a few years, but I don't have any
lingering sense but of admiration and fondness. I don't think I'll
reread them, though.

T.

Report this message

#173: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-18 11:47:16 by Harold Marx Brzeznski

Pseudonymus al-Faqha'ter III wrote:

&gt; The actual site is even worse: <a href="http://count.teunc.org/rogs/rogs.html." target="_blank">http://count.teunc.org/rogs/rogs.html.</a>
&gt; For some reason, balrog cuisine is viewed as a &quot;useful&quot; fact. Perhaps
&gt; if you're a poisoner.
&gt;
&gt; By the way, please send FATS $150 today if you want to learn what the
&gt; one true evaluation of Dante's poetry is.

Bah! Pay no attention to these FATS schismatics, bretheren! Udunvagor
laughs scornfully at their antics. UFAT remains the one true way to the
wisdom of Udunvagor, Derrida and Clippy. And as proof, for a small
donation of $500, you can receive a personally autographed copy of
Udunvagor's &quot;What made Durante so deglicious? A new approach to Dante&quot;
bound in luxuriant rogskin AND an action statuette of Clippy COMPLETELY
FREE! Send us your credit card details today!

yours in faith,


Harold Marx Brzeznski
PS: Ceterem censeo FATSinem delandam esse

Report this message

#174: Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update)

Posted on 2006-07-18 15:22:22 by Derek Broughton

RPN wrote:

&gt;
&gt; Öjevind Lång wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; *No one* without an ideological agenda has ever been able to regard the
&gt;&gt; latter half of Purgatorio, and all of Paradiso, as anything other than
&gt;&gt; one huge yawn.
&gt;
&gt; I, for one, am a living disproof of your categorical statement.
&gt;
&gt; RPN (who will maintain that the *Paradiso* contains the best poetry in
&gt; the *Commedia*)

I assert that, ergo, you are a living ideological agenda :-)

I confess to not having even attempted anything after Inferno - Purgatory
never fit _my_ ideological agenda.
--
derek

Report this message

#175: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-18 15:22:39 by bredband.net

&quot;Harold Marx Brzeznski&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:brzeznski&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">brzeznski&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; skrev i meddelandet
news:<a href="mailto:MPG.1f26be7e8f6ec11f989d27&#64;news.individual.net..." target="_blank">MPG.1f26be7e8f6ec11f989d27&#64;news.individual.net...</a>

[snip]

&gt; Bah! Pay no attention to these FATS schismatics, bretheren! Udunvagor
&gt; laughs scornfully at their antics. UFAT remains the one true way to the
&gt; wisdom of Udunvagor, Derrida and Clippy. And as proof, for a small
&gt; donation of $500, you can receive a personally autographed copy of
&gt; Udunvagor's &quot;What made Durante so deglicious? A new approach to Dante&quot;

Wait! Now I get it. When people say they think Dante's &quot;Paradiso&quot; is good,
they don't mean that it's good reading; they mean that it is good to eat.

Öjevind

Report this message

#176: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-18 21:19:06 by Taemon

Öjevind Lång wrote:

&gt; &quot;Harold Marx Brzeznski&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:brzeznski&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">brzeznski&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; skrev i meddelandet
&gt; news:<a href="mailto:MPG.1f26be7e8f6ec11f989d27&#64;news.individual.net..." target="_blank">MPG.1f26be7e8f6ec11f989d27&#64;news.individual.net...</a>
&gt;&gt; Bah! Pay no attention to these FATS schismatics, bretheren!
&gt;&gt; Udunvagor laughs scornfully at their antics. UFAT remains the
&gt;&gt; one true way to the wisdom of Udunvagor, Derrida and Clippy. And as
&gt;&gt; proof, for a small donation of $500, you can receive a
&gt;&gt; personally autographed copy of Udunvagor's &quot;What made Durante so
&gt;&gt; deglicious? A new approach to Dante&quot;
&gt; Wait! Now I get it. When people say they think Dante's &quot;Paradiso&quot;
&gt; is good, they don't mean that it's good reading; they mean that
&gt; it is good to eat.

That will be $500.

T.

Report this message

#177: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-18 22:32:29 by Count Menelvagor

=D6jevind L=E5ng wrote:
&gt; &quot;Harold Marx Brzeznski&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:brzeznski&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">brzeznski&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; skrev i meddelandet
&gt; news:<a href="mailto:MPG.1f26be7e8f6ec11f989d27&#64;news.individual.net..." target="_blank">MPG.1f26be7e8f6ec11f989d27&#64;news.individual.net...</a>
&gt;
&gt; [snip]
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Bah! Pay no attention to these FATS schismatics, bretheren! Udunvagor
&gt; &gt; laughs scornfully at their antics. UFAT remains the one true way to the
&gt; &gt; wisdom of Udunvagor, Derrida and Clippy. And as proof, for a small
&gt; &gt; donation of $500, you can receive a personally autographed copy of
&gt; &gt; Udunvagor's &quot;What made Durante so deglicious? A new approach to Dante&quot;
&gt;
&gt; Wait! Now I get it. When people say they think Dante's &quot;Paradiso&quot; is good,
&gt; they don't mean that it's good reading; they mean that it is good to eat.

his hobbit-blood gelati are to die for.

Report this message

#178: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-19 03:51:36 by pseudonimofaqhater

Harold Marx Brzeznski wrote:
&gt; Pseudonymus al-Faqha'ter III wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; The actual site is even worse: <a href="http://count.teunc.org/rogs/rogs.html." target="_blank">http://count.teunc.org/rogs/rogs.html.</a>
&gt; &gt; For some reason, balrog cuisine is viewed as a &quot;useful&quot; fact. Perhaps
&gt; &gt; if you're a poisoner.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; By the way, please send FATS $150 today if you want to learn what the
&gt; &gt; one true evaluation of Dante's poetry is.
&gt;
&gt; Bah! Pay no attention to these FATS schismatics, bretheren! Udunvagor
&gt; laughs scornfully at their antics. UFAT remains the one true way to the
&gt; wisdom of Udunvagor, Derrida and Clippy. And as proof, for a small
&gt; donation of $500, you can receive a personally autographed copy of
&gt; Udunvagor's &quot;What made Durante so deglicious? A new approach to Dante&quot;
&gt; bound in luxuriant rogskin AND an action statuette of Clippy COMPLETELY
&gt; FREE! Send us your credit card details today!
&gt;
&gt; yours in faith,
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Harold Marx Brzeznski
&gt; PS: Ceterem censeo FATSinem delandam esse

We have bigger fish to fry. Christopher Tolkien shall pay for his
treacherous lies!

Report this message

#179: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-20 09:26:52 by Henriette

Een Wilde Ier schreef:

&gt; Taemon wrote:
&gt; &gt; Een Wilde Ier wrote: [about the Liveship Traders Trilogy]
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Ahhh, yes - the unfinished trilogy :-/
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; I read them all?
&gt;
&gt; Seriously, there's no proper conclusion at the back of the third book.
&gt; Most disappointing.
&gt;
Mrs Hobb has a website where she answers readers' questions. You can
ask her for all the money you have spent on her books, to at least be
allowed to receive a proper ending!

&gt; (p.s. no-one spoil the ending for others, please)

I'm nearly there;-) I will be upset when she doesn't put everything to
rights first!

HB

Report this message

#180: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-20 09:41:29 by Henriette

Een Wilde Ier schreef:

&gt; TT Arvind wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; But even in the US, very few people take them seriously now. On the
&gt; &gt; academic front, the main plank of those against action to combat global
&gt; &gt; warmingers has shifted in the past few months from &quot;Is human-induced
&gt; &gt; global warming really happening?&quot; to &quot;Even if global warming is
&gt; &gt; happening, should dealing with it really be a priority?&quot; I suppose
&gt; &gt; that is progress of some sort.
&gt;
&gt; No, it's just the next stage in delaying tactics by corporations. It's a
&gt; well-trodden path (big tobacco?) by this point.

The 'tobacco-truth' came out eventually, so will environmental
sustainability be acknowledged eventually as one of the major
challenges the world is facing today.

HB

Report this message

#181: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-20 09:49:09 by Henriette

Troels Forchhammer schreef:

&gt; &quot;Henriette&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:heldenib&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">heldenib&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; enriched us with:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Troels' Piet Hein is actually a great-great-great-great grandson
&gt; &gt; of our Piet and a Danish writer/poet.
&gt;
&gt; Thanks -- I didn't remember how many greats he should have ;-)
&gt;
LOL. This was just a wild guess;-)

&gt; My grandmother used to say that he was a sour curmudgeon in real life,
&gt; which only goes to show that the relation between artist and art is not
&gt; always as direct as one might believe.
&gt;
That subject is very sensitively dealt with in Paul Gallico's 'Love of
Seven Dolls'.

&gt; ObTolkien:
&gt; But only one's guardian Angel, or indeed God Himself,
&gt; could unravel the real relationship between personal facts
&gt; and an author's works. Not the author himself (though he
&gt; knows more than any investigator), and certainly not so-
&gt; called 'psychologists'.
&gt; [Letter #213 To Deborah Webster, October 1958]

Nice quote, except maybe for psychologists...

Henriette

Report this message

#182: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-20 23:57:58 by Christopher Kreuzer

Henriette &lt;<a href="mailto:heldenib&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">heldenib&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; The 'tobacco-truth' came out eventually, so will environmental
&gt; sustainability be acknowledged eventually as one of the major
&gt; challenges the world is facing today.

Sustainability of any kind is obvious when you stop and think about it.
Moving from the small-scale model to global models doesn't reduce the
need for eventual sustainability (think on a timescale of millennia, and
most resources run out pretty quickly). It is just the large numbers
that seem to obscure things most of the time. When you see waterfalls
with hundreds of thousands of litres of water pouring over them every
second, it is difficult to think that things like water can ever run
out. Then you start to look at how much of it is clean, the transport
costs, the cleaning costs, etc, etc. Plus the numbers of people needing
any particular resource. And it takes time to even calculate what is
going on - and to gather the information so it is not just hand-waving.
And even then, all the studies don't really link up together to draw the
big picture. Or they are out-of-date before they are published.

I particularly like the &quot;cradle-to-grave&quot; analyses. Pick up any random
object around you that you have just purchased, and try to calculate
what processes of mining, manufacturing and transport were needed to get
it to you. Then throw it in the bin (assuming it is disposable and you
don't need to keep it). That was a waste, wasn't it?

One hope is that there are future technologies out there that will
overcome many of the problems we are storing up for ourselves. But I
don't think all the problems can be solved by human ingenuity.

Christopher

--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard

Report this message

#183: Liveship Trilogy (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update)

Posted on 2006-07-21 00:20:19 by Speaking Clock

Een Wilde Ier &lt;<a href="mailto:maoltuile&#64;utvinternet.ie" target="_blank">maoltuile&#64;utvinternet.ie</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; Henriette wrote:
&gt;&gt; Piet Hein is a Dutch sea warrior of the 17th century without whom we
&gt;&gt; allegedly would now be a province of Spain. He is one of the few
&gt;&gt; historical persons every Dutch person knows, probably because his
&gt;&gt; name is mentioned in a song which is always sung during
&gt;&gt; soccer-contests;-) but also because he had a very colourful life
&gt;&gt; (actually very many elements of his life are found in Robin Hobb's
&gt;&gt; Live Ship Traders series...).
&gt;
&gt; Ahhh, yes - the unfinished trilogy :-/

Unfinished? In what way - I've just read the series of nine Robin Hobbs
books of which those formed the middle three. Were you left wondering
by the ending of book nine, as I was, or did you find the Liveship
trilogy incomplete in some way?

(I'm so glad I didn't listen to my local bookseller who told me I could
skip the Liveship books and progress straight to the &quot;Fool&quot; books, by
the way.)
--
Speaking Clock

Report this message

#184: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-21 01:01:12 by Harold Marx Brzeznski

The wise and generous Pseudonymus al-Faqha'ter III waxed forth in
words of wonder:

&gt; We have bigger fish to fry. Christopher Tolkien shall pay for his
&gt; treacherous lies!

How much?


yours in faith,

Harold Marx Brzeznski

Report this message

#185: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-21 01:05:54 by Harold Marx Brzeznski

Taemon wrote:

&gt; That will be $500.

Thank you, O Friend of UFAT. For this, UFAT will gladly pay you a
small commission. Now, if you will just send us your credit card
details...

yours in faith,

Harold Marx Brzeznski

Report this message

#186: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-21 03:58:36 by pseudonimofaqhater

Harold Marx Brzeznski wrote:
&gt; The wise and generous Pseudonymus al-Faqha'ter III waxed forth in
&gt; words of wonder:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; We have bigger fish to fry. Christopher Tolkien shall pay for his
&gt; &gt; treacherous lies!
&gt;
&gt; How much?

That will be for the courts to determine. Hopefully, quite a lot.

Report this message

#187: Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update

Posted on 2006-07-21 12:11:39 by Taemon

Harold Marx Brzeznski wrote:

&gt; Taemon wrote:
&gt;&gt; That will be $500.
&gt; Thank you, O Friend of UFAT. For this, UFAT will gladly pay you a
&gt; small commission. Now, if you will just send us your credit card
&gt; details...

You already have those. Who do you think will be paying that
commission? I got a membership some time ago. For free! Free!
Hahahahahaha!

T.

Report this message