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#1: The *REAL* Reason The 1988 Tour Wuz Cancelled.....

Posted on 2006-06-24 00:53:16 by The old geezer

.......Frank blamed it on the band members not getting along with the
bass guitarist Scott Thunes.....but wuz it really because Frank wuz
losing his shirt (tons of money) on the tour?

Thoughts.....
Comments.....

the old geezer

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#2: Re: The *REAL* Reason The 1988 Tour Wuz Cancelled.....

Posted on 2006-06-24 01:28:22 by Bill

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1151103196.363934.184010&#64;g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1151103196.363934.184010&#64;g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
&quot;The old geezer&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:JYOB&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">JYOB&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; ......Frank blamed it on the band members not getting along with the
&gt; bass guitarist Scott Thunes.....but wuz it really because Frank wuz
&gt; losing his shirt (tons of money) on the tour?
&gt;
&gt; Thoughts.....
&gt; Comments.....
&gt;
&gt; the old geezer

no

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#3: Re: The *REAL* Reason The 1988 Tour Wuz Cancelled.....

Posted on 2006-06-24 10:49:48 by zappatears

On 23 Jun 2006 15:53:16 -0700, &quot;The old geezer&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:JYOB&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">JYOB&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;......Frank blamed it on the band members not getting along with the
&gt;bass guitarist Scott Thunes.....but wuz it really because Frank wuz
&gt;losing his shirt (tons of money) on the tour?
&gt;
&gt;Thoughts.....
&gt;Comments.....
&gt;
&gt;the old geezer
maybe the uro tour but in the us each and every show was sold out

including the nassau coliseum @ 25,000 seats

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#4: Re: The *REAL* Reason The 1988 Tour Wuz Cancelled.....

Posted on 2006-06-24 16:24:49 by mike macken

On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 04:49:48 -0400,
&quot;<a href="http://s10.invisionfree.com/ZAPPATEARS" target="_blank">http://s10.invisionfree.com/ZAPPATEARS</a>&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:zappatears&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">zappatears&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;On 23 Jun 2006 15:53:16 -0700, &quot;The old geezer&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:JYOB&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">JYOB&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;......Frank blamed it on the band members not getting along with the
&gt;&gt;bass guitarist Scott Thunes.....but wuz it really because Frank wuz
&gt;&gt;losing his shirt (tons of money) on the tour?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Thoughts.....
&gt;&gt;Comments.....
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;the old geezer
&gt;maybe the uro tour but in the us each and every show was sold out
&gt;
&gt;including the nassau coliseum @ 25,000 seats


who knows maybe Heff invited them out to the mansion and they said
fuck the rest of the tour :)

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#5: Re: The *REAL* Reason The 1988 Tour Wuz Cancelled.....

Posted on 2006-06-24 19:21:56 by The old geezer

mike macken wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; who knows maybe Heff invited them out to the mansion and they said
&gt; fuck the rest of the tour :)

Awwww.....BILGE!!! If Frank REALLY needed another bassist why didn't
he just wire Roy Estrada to come &amp; fill in?? FZ may have been selling
out some auditoriums but wuz that enuff to cover expenses? IIRC,
didn't he mention this fact in TRFZB, that he wuz losing $$$$$ on this
tour. I mean, these guys were very good musicians who weren't just
playing for beers &amp; the buffet after the show like Flo &amp; Eddie did.

the old geezer

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#6: Re: The *REAL* Reason The 1988 Tour Wuz Cancelled.....

Posted on 2006-06-24 19:58:56 by mike macken

On 24 Jun 2006 10:21:56 -0700, &quot;The old geezer&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:JYOB&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">JYOB&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;
&gt;mike macken wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; who knows maybe Heff invited them out to the mansion and they said
&gt;&gt; fuck the rest of the tour :)
&gt;
&gt;Awwww.....BILGE!!! If Frank REALLY needed another bassist why didn't
&gt;he just wire Roy Estrada to come &amp; fill in?? FZ may have been selling
&gt;out some auditoriums but wuz that enuff to cover expenses? IIRC,
&gt;didn't he mention this fact in TRFZB, that he wuz losing $$$$$ on this
&gt;tour. I mean, these guys were very good musicians who weren't just
&gt;playing for beers &amp; the buffet after the show like Flo &amp; Eddie did.
&gt;
&gt;the old geezer

who gives a fuck anyway :)

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#7: Re: The *REAL* Reason The 1988 Tour Wuz Cancelled.....

Posted on 2006-06-24 22:02:30 by Les Cargill

The old geezer wrote:
&gt; ......Frank blamed it on the band members not getting along with the
&gt; bass guitarist Scott Thunes.....but wuz it really because Frank wuz
&gt; losing his shirt (tons of money) on the tour?
&gt;
&gt; Thoughts.....

That's probably true. The &quot;not getting along&quot; seemed to
me to be more of a mutiny, anyway. The implication was
that Tunes was merely a lightning rod for ire against
Zappa hisself.

&gt; Comments.....

By '88, I would imagine that the revenue from sales of the
CDs was starting to make touring look fiscally unattractive.

When was it Ryko started carrying the back catalog
in force, anyway?

IMO, 'course.

&gt;
&gt; the old geezer
&gt;

--
Les Cargill

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#8: Re: The *REAL* Reason The 1988 Tour Wuz Cancelled.....

Posted on 2006-06-25 01:06:29 by pbuzby2002

The old geezer wrote:
&gt; ......Frank blamed it on the band members not getting along with the
&gt; bass guitarist Scott Thunes.....but wuz it really because Frank wuz
&gt; losing his shirt (tons of money) on the tour?

That may have been a factor. FZ's health may have also been a factor.

However, I don't think it was out of character for him to choose to
cancel the tour rather than accepting the musicians trying to force him
to fire someone he liked.

Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL

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#9: Re: The *REAL* Reason The 1988 Tour Wuz Cancelled.....

Posted on 2006-06-25 03:42:11 by globual

&gt; I don't think it was out of character for him to choose to
&gt; cancel the tour rather than accepting the musicians trying to force him
&gt; to fire someone he liked.

Remember that he had been talking about quitting since 1982. Already toward
the end of the 1982 tour, while still playing, he was convinced enough to
announce it to be the last tour at beginnings of shows. Listen for instance
to the announcement at the opening of the June 8th show in Hamburg: he
really enjoys telling the German audience that this is the last time they
are going to see him live, calling it &quot;the very special occasion.&quot; The 1984
tour was positively to be the last. See the liner notes on DHBIM where next
to Whippin' Post we read &quot;Los Angeles (the last song of the last show of the
last tour).&quot; Just itching to pull the trigger. As in his music: itching to
attempt the impossible.

globual

&lt;<a href="mailto:pbuzby2002&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">pbuzby2002&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1151190389.288855.210870&#64;u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1151190389.288855.210870&#64;u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;
&gt; The old geezer wrote:
&gt;&gt; ......Frank blamed it on the band members not getting along with the
&gt;&gt; bass guitarist Scott Thunes.....but wuz it really because Frank wuz
&gt;&gt; losing his shirt (tons of money) on the tour?
&gt;
&gt; That may have been a factor. FZ's health may have also been a factor.
&gt;
&gt; However, I don't think it was out of character for him to choose to
&gt; cancel the tour rather than accepting the musicians trying to force him
&gt; to fire someone he liked.
&gt;
&gt; Pat Buzby
&gt; Chicago, IL
&gt;

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#10: Re: The *REAL* Reason The 1988 Tour Wuz Cancelled.....

Posted on 2006-06-25 03:45:51 by Les Cargill

Tomasz Michalak wrote:

&gt;&gt;I don't think it was out of character for him to choose to
&gt;&gt;cancel the tour rather than accepting the musicians trying to force him
&gt;&gt;to fire someone he liked.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Remember that he had been talking about quitting since 1982. Already toward
&gt; the end of the 1982 tour, while still playing, he was convinced enough to
&gt; announce it to be the last tour at beginnings of shows. Listen for instance
&gt; to the announcement at the opening of the June 8th show in Hamburg: he
&gt; really enjoys telling the German audience that this is the last time they
&gt; are going to see him live, calling it &quot;the very special occasion.&quot; The 1984
&gt; tour was positively to be the last. See the liner notes on DHBIM where next
&gt; to Whippin' Post we read &quot;Los Angeles (the last song of the last show of the
&gt; last tour).&quot; Just itching to pull the trigger. As in his music: itching to
&gt; attempt the impossible.
&gt;
&gt; globual
&gt;

I got a copy of the DVD DHBIM for a birthday present. &quot;The Band
That Couldn't Get Anything Right&quot; is pretty accurate. It just
didn't gel.

And WGAF,A.

&lt;snip&gt;

--
Les Cargill

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#11: Re: The *REAL* Reason The 1988 Tour Wuz Cancelled.....

Posted on 2006-06-25 04:14:14 by pbuzby2002

Tomasz Michalak wrote:

&gt; Remember that he had been talking about quitting since 1982.

In 1982 he was talking about not touring in Europe anymore, but not
about giving up touring entirely.

Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL

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#12: Re: The *REAL* Reason The 1988 Tour Wuz Cancelled.....

Posted on 2006-06-25 04:19:12 by pbuzby2002

Les Cargill wrote:

&gt; When was it Ryko started carrying the back catalog
&gt; in force, anyway?

Ryko started putting FZ's CDs out in 1986. I remember reading some
Ryko publicity material once where they suggested that the CDs may have
helped prompt the '88 tour.

Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL

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#13: Re: The *REAL* Reason The 1988 Tour Wuz Cancelled.....

Posted on 2006-06-25 05:08:04 by Les Cargill

<a href="mailto:pbuzby2002&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">pbuzby2002&#64;yahoo.com</a> wrote:

&gt; Les Cargill wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;When was it Ryko started carrying the back catalog
&gt;&gt;in force, anyway?
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Ryko started putting FZ's CDs out in 1986. I remember reading some
&gt; Ryko publicity material once where they suggested that the CDs may have
&gt; helped prompt the '88 tour.
&gt;
&gt; Pat Buzby
&gt; Chicago, IL
&gt;

Thanks. Then I have to beleieve that the couple years' baseline of
income data probably affected the decision.

--
Les Cargill

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#14: Re: The *REAL* Reason The 1988 Tour Wuz Cancelled.....

Posted on 2006-06-25 07:27:13 by globual

&gt; I got a copy of the DVD DHBIM for a birthday present. &quot;The Band That
&gt; Couldn't Get Anything Right&quot; is pretty accurate.

The 1984 band was in my opinion one of the most competent ones, perhaps
second next competent to the 1974, though partly because they didn't take
too many risks. The material was well rehearsed and played accurately, and
there were more songs than ever before ready to be go at any time. It's not
so much accuracy as rather a lack of excitement and a certain predictability
(though not in the setlists) that are a problem; for those who must find
problems. The band delivered what they set out to do: offer a cheesy kind of
rock with a lot of fake drama and noisy guitar solos. Over the years I've
inflicted many different videos on people not interested in FZ, and of all
the different materials this tends to be received the best. Perhaps this is
because there's a level of stupidity in it that makes it actually genuinely
funny, in contrast with the sort of stuff that puts more emphasis on
complexity, which tends to annoy those who are not into Zappa.


globual

&quot;Les Cargill&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:lNOcargill&#64;cfl.Arr.com" target="_blank">lNOcargill&#64;cfl.Arr.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:jVlng.27360$<a href="mailto:Ui7.5594&#64;tornado.tampabay.rr.com..." target="_blank">Ui7.5594&#64;tornado.tampabay.rr.com...</a>
&gt; Tomasz Michalak wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;I don't think it was out of character for him to choose to
&gt;&gt;&gt;cancel the tour rather than accepting the musicians trying to force him
&gt;&gt;&gt;to fire someone he liked.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Remember that he had been talking about quitting since 1982. Already
&gt;&gt; toward the end of the 1982 tour, while still playing, he was convinced
&gt;&gt; enough to announce it to be the last tour at beginnings of shows. Listen
&gt;&gt; for instance to the announcement at the opening of the June 8th show in
&gt;&gt; Hamburg: he really enjoys telling the German audience that this is the
&gt;&gt; last time they are going to see him live, calling it &quot;the very special
&gt;&gt; occasion.&quot; The 1984 tour was positively to be the last. See the liner
&gt;&gt; notes on DHBIM where next to Whippin' Post we read &quot;Los Angeles (the last
&gt;&gt; song of the last show of the last tour).&quot; Just itching to pull the
&gt;&gt; trigger. As in his music: itching to attempt the impossible.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; globual
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I got a copy of the DVD DHBIM for a birthday present. &quot;The Band That
&gt; Couldn't Get Anything Right&quot; is pretty accurate. It just
&gt; didn't gel.
&gt;
&gt; And WGAF,A.
&gt;
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;
&gt; --
&gt; Les Cargill

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#15: Re: The *REAL* Reason The 1988 Tour Wuz Cancelled.....

Posted on 2006-06-25 19:09:59 by Les Cargill

Tomasz Michalak wrote:

&gt;&gt;I got a copy of the DVD DHBIM for a birthday present. &quot;The Band That
&gt;&gt;Couldn't Get Anything Right&quot; is pretty accurate.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; The 1984 band was in my opinion one of the most competent ones, perhaps
&gt; second next competent to the 1974, though partly because they didn't take
&gt; too many risks. The material was well rehearsed and played accurately, and
&gt; there were more songs than ever before ready to be go at any time. It's not
&gt; so much accuracy as rather a lack of excitement and a certain predictability
&gt; (though not in the setlists) that are a problem;


Maybe they were over-rehearsed? And I'd exempt Thunes and Wackerman
from comment, as well as Ray &amp; Ike.

Again, it just sort of didn't gel. It wasn't a &quot;had a lot of
defects&quot; thing, just had a sort of breathless boringness to it.

I think maybe I'm more reacting to the choices of tempo more than
anything else. Very little of it really grooved.

&gt; for those who must find
&gt; problems. The band delivered what they set out to do: offer a cheesy kind of
&gt; rock with a lot of fake drama and noisy guitar solos. Over the years I've
&gt; inflicted many different videos on people not interested in FZ, and of all
&gt; the different materials this tends to be received the best.

Really?

&gt; Perhaps this is
&gt; because there's a level of stupidity in it that makes it actually genuinely
&gt; funny,

That brings up a point - maybe the visual part was a sort of
distraction.

&gt; in contrast with the sort of stuff that puts more emphasis on
&gt; complexity, which tends to annoy those who are not into Zappa.
&gt;

It did seem like the arrangements ( and perhaps the mix ) were
stripped down.

&gt;
&gt; globual
&gt;
&lt;snip&gt;
--
Les Cargill

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#16: Re: The *REAL* Reason The 1988 Tour Wuz Cancelled.....

Posted on 2006-06-25 22:12:02 by pbuzby2002

Les Cargill wrote:
&gt; Maybe they were over-rehearsed? And I'd exempt Thunes and Wackerman
&gt; from comment, as well as Ray &amp; Ike.

IMO, there are two issues with the '84 tour:

1) FZ was taking increasingly long breaks between tours and wasn't
playing guitar when he wasn't touring, so his chops suffered, and

2) He may have been either embracing 80's technology or parodying early
MTV synth pop, but in either case he picked some sounds which haven't
aged well.

That being said, I can usually enjoy an '84 tape when I put one on.
Best vocal lineup ever, one of the best rhythm sections, lots of humor,
and on a good night FZ could still play some fine solos.

Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL

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#17: Re: The *REAL* Reason The 1988 Tour Wuz Cancelled.....

Posted on 2006-07-06 05:52:30 by Dave W

The old geezer wrote:
&gt; mike macken wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; who knows maybe Heff invited them out to the mansion and they said
&gt;&gt; fuck the rest of the tour :)
&gt;
&gt; Awwww.....BILGE!!! If Frank REALLY needed another bassist why didn't
&gt; he just wire Roy Estrada to come &amp; fill in?? FZ may have been selling
&gt; out some auditoriums but wuz that enuff to cover expenses? IIRC,
&gt; didn't he mention this fact in TRFZB, that he wuz losing $$$$$ on this
&gt; tour. I mean, these guys were very good musicians who weren't just
&gt; playing for beers &amp; the buffet after the show like Flo &amp; Eddie did.
&gt;
&gt; the old geezer
&gt;
Roy Estrada could not cut any post 1970s Zappa music. He didn't have the
chops.

Dave

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