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#1: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 02:43:26 by treesy2

1. Introduction.
Hi, I'm Michael Trees. I'm 17 and a (obviously) big fan of Pratchett's
works (hands around some chocolates to foster good favour). I live on
the north coast of NSW in Australia. I've been lurking here for a fair
while, and finally got the guts to start my own topic.

2. Rant
The main thing that spurned me to write this is our public school
censors. Their job is to block innapropriate sites from school networks
in schools (which I agree with), however, I have cause to think that
they may be a little heavy handed.

Why, because I recently attempted to log on to afp from school, only to
find that it had been blocked as an "adult-sex group". This, naturally,
has caused much confusion on my part, as I'd been following afp from
school for over a year before this.

I will conclude my two sections now with hello, and Aaargh.

treesy.

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#2: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 04:26:47 by Arthur Hagen

treesy &lt;<a href="mailto:treesy2&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">treesy2&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; Why, because I recently attempted to log on to afp from school, only
&gt; to find that it had been blocked as an &quot;adult-sex group&quot;. This,
&gt; naturally, has caused much confusion on my part, as I'd been
&gt; following afp from school for over a year before this.

It's certainly a group containing adult content, but not worse than that we
have fundie regulars here, who cope with the occasional innuendo or talk
about sex.
Sex being a normal part of life, it would be strange to repress it from any
generic group, so I would guess that your school's filter blocks most talk
newsgroups.

Remember this, and take it into consideration when voting in the future.
:-)

&gt; I will conclude my two sections now with hello, and Aaargh.

Hodges?

--
*Art

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#3: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 04:30:39 by Stacie Hanes

treesy wrote:

&gt; Why, because I recently attempted to log on to afp from school,
&gt; only to find that it had been blocked as an &quot;adult-sex group&quot;.

Okay, guys, knock off the flirting.

;-)

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#4: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 04:38:10 by Puck

treesy wrote:
&gt; 1. Introduction.
&gt; Hi, I'm Michael Trees. I'm 17 and a (obviously) big fan of Pratchett's
&gt; works (hands around some chocolates to foster good favour). I live on
&gt; the north coast of NSW in Australia. I've been lurking here for a fair
&gt; while, and finally got the guts to start my own topic.

Hello and nice to meetcha. Pull up a chair and call the cat a wossname.

&gt; Why, because I recently attempted to log on to afp from school, only
&gt; to find that it had been blocked as an &quot;adult-sex group&quot;. This,
&gt; naturally, has caused much confusion on my part, as I'd been
&gt; following afp from school for over a year before this.

If this is a sex group then the female posters have seriously been holding
out on me. ::ducks::

I'd say that very few of the threads ever go above a pg-13 rating. How does
your school decide what's smut and what's not? Do they scan for certain
words? Because if hedgehog, chocolate, spider and Terry Pratchett are common
terms on sex groups then the internet is even more twisted and bizarre than
I had imagined.
--
Puck (onstage): I am that merry wanderer of the night!
Peaseblossom (in audience): &quot;I am that merry wanderer of the night&quot;,
indeed! &quot;I am that
giggling-dangerous-totally-bloody-psychotic-menace-to-life and limb,
more like.&quot; -Neil Gaiman

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#5: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 04:49:09 by Kar98

On 2006-05-30 21:30:39 -0500, &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; said:

&gt; treesy wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Why, because I recently attempted to log on to afp from school,
&gt;&gt; only to find that it had been blocked as an &quot;adult-sex group&quot;.
&gt;
&gt; Okay, guys, knock off the flirting.
&gt;
&gt; ;-)

Girls however are encouraged to kindly kick the flirting up a notch.

--
Dig a moat the length of the Mexican border. Take the dirt, raise the
levees in New Orleans, and put the Florida alligators in the moat.
Are there any other problems you would like for me to solve?

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#6: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 05:03:16 by Arthur Hagen

Puck &lt;<a href="mailto:Kormos.4&#64;osu.edu" target="_blank">Kormos.4&#64;osu.edu</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; I'd say that very few of the threads ever go above a pg-13 rating.
&gt; How does your school decide what's smut and what's not? Do they scan
&gt; for certain words? Because if hedgehog, chocolate, spider and Terry
&gt; Pratchett are common terms on sex groups then the internet is even
&gt; more twisted and bizarre than I had imagined.

A quick google shows:

shit: 1980 occurrences on a.f.p.
piss: 980
fuck: 918
cunt: 52
cocksucker: 3
motherfucker: 17
tits/teats: 153

Personally, I think we're way too scatological here, and I'd love to see
more teats.

Regards,
--
*Art

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#7: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 05:46:15 by treesy2

Puck wrote:
&gt;
&gt; Hello and nice to meetcha. Pull up a chair and call the cat a wossname.
&gt;
will do.
&gt;
&gt; If this is a sex group then the female posters have seriously been holding
&gt; out on me. ::ducks::
&gt;
&gt; I'd say that very few of the threads ever go above a pg-13 rating. How does
&gt; your school decide what's smut and what's not? Do they scan for certain
&gt; words? Because if hedgehog, chocolate, spider and Terry Pratchett are common
&gt; terms on sex groups then the internet is even more twisted and bizarre than
&gt; I had imagined.
&gt; --
You're probably right, or at least, that's the conclusion that I came
to.
As for hedgehogs on sex groups, maybe they have been reading Pratchett.

treesy.

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#8: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 05:48:32 by Stacie Hanes

René wrote:
&gt; On 2006-05-30 21:30:39 -0500, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; said:
&gt;&gt; treesy wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Why, because I recently attempted to log on to afp from school,
&gt;&gt;&gt; only to find that it had been blocked as an &quot;adult-sex group&quot;.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Okay, guys, knock off the flirting.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; ;-)
&gt;
&gt; Girls however are encouraged to kindly kick the flirting up a notch.

I do what I can, but this is a no-binaries group. Besides, when the subject
of not posting a link to the handcuff pic came up, only Rocky figured it
out.

I can't help the people who can't hold up their end of the flirting.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#9: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 06:06:31 by Kar98

On 2006-05-30 22:03:16 -0500, &quot;Arthur Hagen&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt; said:

&gt; Puck &lt;<a href="mailto:Kormos.4&#64;osu.edu" target="_blank">Kormos.4&#64;osu.edu</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I'd say that very few of the threads ever go above a pg-13 rating.
&gt;&gt; How does your school decide what's smut and what's not? Do they scan
&gt;&gt; for certain words? Because if hedgehog, chocolate, spider and Terry
&gt;&gt; Pratchett are common terms on sex groups then the internet is even
&gt;&gt; more twisted and bizarre than I had imagined.
&gt;
&gt; A quick google shows:
&gt;
&gt; shit: 1980 occurrences on a.f.p.
&gt; piss: 980
&gt; fuck: 918
&gt; cunt: 52
&gt; cocksucker: 3
&gt; motherfucker: 17
&gt; tits/teats: 153

I find your search terms a little unsettling.

9,660 results for sex
1,180 results for naked
127 results for intercourse
65 results for boobs
57 results for orgasms (just _one_ doesn't count as sex)
7 results for vestigial virgins

Remember? The phrase was &quot;sex groups&quot;?

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#10: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 06:12:37 by Stacie Hanes

René wrote:

&gt; 57 results for orgasms (just _one_ doesn't count as sex)

Sure it does!

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#11: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 06:46:21 by Arthur Hagen

René &lt;<a href="mailto:Kar98&#64;The-Coalition.US" target="_blank">Kar98&#64;The-Coalition.US</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; I find your search terms a little unsettling.
&gt;
[...]
&gt; 7 results for vestigial virgins

Hah! Any fule knows there should be 16!

Regards,
--
*Art

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#12: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 08:36:51 by Blake

Arthur Hagen wrote:

&gt; René &lt;<a href="mailto:Kar98&#64;The-Coalition.US" target="_blank">Kar98&#64;The-Coalition.US</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I find your search terms a little unsettling.
&gt;&gt;
&gt; [...]
&gt;
&gt;&gt; 7 results for vestigial virgins
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Hah! Any fule knows there should be 16!
&gt;
&gt; Regards,
Are we lengthening that Christmas, Ooh, scratch that, Hogswatch song.

On the 16th day of Hogswatch my true love sent to me 16 vestal virgins...

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#13: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 08:48:56 by SeekUp

&quot;treesy&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:treesy2&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">treesy2&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote

&gt; Why, because I recently attempted to log on to afp from school, only to
&gt; find that it had been blocked as an &quot;adult-sex group&quot;. This, naturally,
&gt; has caused much confusion on my part, as I'd been following afp from
&gt; school for over a year before this.


Hi, welcome. Just to add that sometimes the description of a newsgroup is
bizarre, or else someone's idea of a joke. Google Groups has:
alt.fan.sting
Description: See alt.sex.bestiality.with-bees
(Ok, ok, I confess, I *was* a fan, but well on the way to recovery.)

Maybe you need to invite your IT people to browse afp and unblock it. Or
maybe not.




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#14: (I) Re: semi- {R} Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 08:52:58 by redtiger

&quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:VI8fg.7180$<a href="mailto:921.4403&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net..." target="_blank">921.4403&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...</a>
&gt; René wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; 57 results for orgasms (just _one_ doesn't count as sex)
&gt;
&gt; Sure it does!
&gt;

Stacie talking about 57 and orgasms.
You know we're going to have to put a gag order on that don't you.

Anthony

--
I'm not bad.
I'm fairly new to mild naughtiness.
- Jeff, Coupling.

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#15: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 08:59:27 by Eric Jarvis

Anastasia <a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a> wrote in
&lt;km8fg.7170$<a href="mailto:921.2674&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">921.2674&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;:
&gt;
&gt; I can't help the people who can't hold up their end of the flirting.
&gt;

Surely when they hold up their end it's something other than flirting?

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
&quot;live fast, die only if strictly necessary&quot;

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#16: Re: (I) Re: semi- {R} Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 09:11:03 by aqusenet

redtiger &lt;<a href="mailto:redtigeriiSPAM&#64;iinet.net.au" target="_blank">redtigeriiSPAM&#64;iinet.net.au</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:VI8fg.7180$<a href="mailto:921.4403&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net..." target="_blank">921.4403&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...</a>
&gt; &gt; René wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; 57 results for orgasms (just _one_ doesn't count as sex)
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Sure it does!
&gt; &gt;
&gt;
&gt; Stacie talking about 57 and orgasms.
&gt; You know we're going to have to put a gag order on that don't you.

This is my thirty foot pole[1] of +5 against barges.

This is me not touching that statement with said pole.

--
'q

[1] This footnote intentionally left blank.

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#17: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 09:29:52 by Brenda

Arthur Hagen said:

&gt; treesy &lt;<a href="mailto:treesy2&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">treesy2&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Why, because I recently attempted to log on to afp from school, only
&gt;&gt; to find that it had been blocked as an &quot;adult-sex group&quot;. This,
&gt;&gt; naturally, has caused much confusion on my part, as I'd been
&gt;&gt; following afp from school for over a year before this.
&gt;
&gt; It's certainly a group containing adult content, but not worse than that
&gt; we have fundie regulars here, who cope with the occasional innuendo or
&gt; talk about sex.

We also have at least one regular here who does not consider himself a
&quot;fundie&quot;, who would love to be able to allow his Pratchett-reading children
to read afp, but can't because the level of so-called &quot;adult&quot; talk is way
too high.

You might think &quot;adults&quot; would be clever enough to find topics of discussion
that are suitable for younger Pratchett fans to join in, or at least read,
without (in some cases) blushing or (in other cases, perhaps) having to
hide the screen from their mothers.

But you'd be wrong.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#18: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 10:42:51 by naomi

treesy wrote:
&gt; Puck wrote:
&gt;&gt; Hello and nice to meetcha. Pull up a chair and call the cat a wossname.
&gt;&gt;
&gt; will do.
&gt;&gt; If this is a sex group then the female posters have seriously been holding
&gt;&gt; out on me. ::ducks::
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I'd say that very few of the threads ever go above a pg-13 rating. How does
&gt;&gt; your school decide what's smut and what's not? Do they scan for certain
&gt;&gt; words? Because if hedgehog, chocolate, spider and Terry Pratchett are common
&gt;&gt; terms on sex groups then the internet is even more twisted and bizarre than
&gt;&gt; I had imagined.
&gt;&gt; --
&gt; You're probably right, or at least, that's the conclusion that I came
&gt; to.
&gt; As for hedgehogs on sex groups, maybe they have been reading Pratchett.
&gt;
&gt; treesy.
&gt;


Nah, if they'd read Pratchett they would know &quot; The Hedghog can never be
buggered at all.&quot;

Welcome,have some choccies. How many austalian afp'ers is that now?

n

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#19: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 10:46:00 by robcraine

treesy wrote:

&gt; 1. Introduction.
&gt; Hi, I'm Michael Trees. I'm 17 and a (obviously) big fan of Pratchett's
&gt; works (hands around some chocolates to foster good favour). I live on
&gt; the north coast of NSW in Australia. I've been lurking here for a fair
&gt; while, and finally got the guts to start my own topic.
&gt;

Hello and welcome. Its always nice when a lurker comes out from behind
the door.

&gt; 2. Rant
&gt; The main thing that spurned me to write this is our public school
&gt; censors. Their job is to block innapropriate sites from school networks
&gt; in schools (which I agree with), however, I have cause to think that
&gt; they may be a little heavy handed.
&gt;
&gt; Why, because I recently attempted to log on to afp from school, only to
&gt; find that it had been blocked as an &quot;adult-sex group&quot;. This, naturally,
&gt; has caused much confusion on my part, as I'd been following afp from
&gt; school for over a year before this.

What is it blocking access to? If you're a google groups user it could
be that you are being blocked for the whole of google groups -
including adult and none-adult groups alike.... and if you're not a
google groups user then maybe you could give it a go.

Incidently... if this group wasn't an adult one, the other posts in
this thread will certainly make it so. So many rude words! Tut!

Rob

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#20: Re: [M] Afp content (was: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.)

Posted on 2006-05-31 11:00:37 by Orjan Westin

Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&gt; We also have at least one regular here who does not consider himself a
&gt; &quot;fundie&quot;, who would love to be able to allow his Pratchett-reading
&gt; children to read afp, but can't because the level of so-called
&gt; &quot;adult&quot; talk is way too high.

I'll skip the rethoric about &quot;adult&quot; talk being about war, work,
politics and taxes and assume you mean references to sex and sexuality
here.

&gt; You might think &quot;adults&quot; would be clever enough to find topics of
&gt; discussion that are suitable for younger Pratchett fans to join in,
&gt; or at least read, without (in some cases) blushing or (in other
&gt; cases, perhaps) having to hide the screen from their mothers.

Well, we do have topics like that, too. Spiders, self-esteem,
Washington gun-shots, Eurovision, Dr Who, longevity in fiction,
existence of soul or absolute morals, Shakespeare, Buffy, bread and
beer...

&gt; But you'd be wrong.

No, you wouldn't. I think the problem isn't the topics, in and of
themselves, but a culture, if you will, where sexual innuendo and hints
are if not the norm then at least rather common and seen to be accepted
(and in some cases encouraged).

There are, I believe, a fair few adult afpers who would agree, as they
find things like that embarrassing or simply uninteresting.

But how much of a problem is it, really? How many of the sexual
references will get noticed by younger readers? I speak here as someone
who in places put on sexual references with a trowel in a piece of
afposted fiction, but wasn't concerned about letting my then eleven year
old (and somewhat prudeish) daughter read it, comfortable with the
knowledge that she wouldn't notice them.

And some of those sections made grown-up afpers blush.

A lot of innuendo is in the eye of the beholder. If it's well done, you
as the reader are the only one providing the sexual references, as the
text stands on its own without them.

Would that be a problem with younger readers, do you think?

Can younger readers read Guards! Guards! or Maskerade or Monstrous
Regiment?

Prepubertal kids simply don't see those hints, because they don't think
that way. Postpubertal may or may not, but a requirement for that would
be a knowledge of the things involved. For the biological bits we are
equipped with, and their function, I hope they have knowledge, and yes,
they may catch references to those. Same thing with courtship rituals
and so on.

For the more specialised areas, with special interests in certain
materials or toys and so forth, the kids would have to know about them
already.

I take your point, and I actually agree with you to some extent. There
are many references to sex and sexual fetishes here, and more often than
not I don't find them amusing. There is a lot of flirting going on,
from time to time, and to me that's largely nul-content posts, too.

But there's not much sex, as such. There are lots of hints at sex, and
we could do with a lot less of that IMNSHO, but unless you put the
actual sex in there when you read them, they are either completely
innocent or incomprehensible. And there are plenty of posts that are
just plain incomprehensible anyway, unfortunatley. Or maybe I'm just
not getting the sexual references in those.

Orjan
--
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
Fiction, Thoughts and Software
<a href="http://www.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://www.cunobaros.com/</a>

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#21: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 11:17:41 by David Chapman

From the Collected Witterings of Anastasia, volume 23:
&gt; René wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; 57 results for orgasms (just _one_ doesn't count as sex)
&gt;
&gt; Sure it does!

Hanes 57 Varieties?

--
If life gives you lemmings, jump off a cliff.

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#22: Re: [I] Varieties (was: Introduction and general rant.)

Posted on 2006-05-31 11:36:32 by Orjan Westin

David Chapman wrote:
&gt; From the Collected Witterings of Anastasia, volume 23:
&gt;&gt; René wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; 57 results for orgasms (just _one_ doesn't count as sex)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Sure it does!
&gt;
&gt; Hanes 57 Varieties?

Oh, I know that one. First there's nothing, then there's nothing, then
you give it a smack on the bottom and you get it all at once.

If I had a penny for every meal that's been ruined by a Heinz bottle of
ketchup, I'd have enough to buy me another meal.

Orjan
--
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
Fiction, Thoughts and Software
<a href="http://www.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://www.cunobaros.com/</a>

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#23: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 13:28:41 by Torak

treesy wrote:
&gt; 1. Introduction.
&gt; Hi, I'm Michael Trees. I'm 17 and a (obviously) big fan of Pratchett's
&gt; works (hands around some chocolates to foster good favour). I live on
&gt; the north coast of NSW in Australia. I've been lurking here for a fair
&gt; while, and finally got the guts to start my own topic.
&gt;
&gt; 2. Rant
&gt; The main thing that spurned me to write this is our public school
&gt; censors. Their job is to block innapropriate sites from school networks
&gt; in schools (which I agree with), however, I have cause to think that
&gt; they may be a little heavy handed.
&gt;
&gt; Why, because I recently attempted to log on to afp from school, only to
&gt; find that it had been blocked as an &quot;adult-sex group&quot;. This, naturally,
&gt; has caused much confusion on my part, as I'd been following afp from
&gt; school for over a year before this.

It's all Stacie's fault. All on her own. Shares in cold showers have
gone up three hundred and eighty-seven points.

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#24: Re: (I) Re: semi- {R} Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 13:31:07 by Torak

redtiger wrote:
&gt; &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt;&gt;René wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;57 results for orgasms (just _one_ doesn't count as sex)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Sure it does!
&gt;
&gt; Stacie talking about 57 and orgasms.
&gt; You know we're going to have to put a gag order on that don't you.

Paging Graham...

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#25: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 13:32:59 by Torak

SeekUp wrote:
&gt; &quot;treesy&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:treesy2&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">treesy2&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Why, because I recently attempted to log on to afp from school, only to
&gt;&gt;find that it had been blocked as an &quot;adult-sex group&quot;. This, naturally,
&gt;&gt;has caused much confusion on my part, as I'd been following afp from
&gt;&gt;school for over a year before this.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Hi, welcome. Just to add that sometimes the description of a newsgroup is
&gt; bizarre, or else someone's idea of a joke. Google Groups has:
&gt; alt.fan.sting
&gt; Description: See alt.sex.bestiality.with-bees
&gt; (Ok, ok, I confess, I *was* a fan, but well on the way to recovery.)
&gt;
&gt; Maybe you need to invite your IT people to browse afp and unblock it. Or
&gt; maybe not.

We could promise to use only nice words for a couple of days. And hope
they've got a short timeout on their servers.

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#26: Re: completely .[I] Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 13:50:59 by eero.suoranta

Anastasia wrote:

&gt; Ren=E9 wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; 57 results for orgasms (just _one_ doesn't count as sex)
&gt;=20
&gt; Sure it does!

Just listen to the expert, Ren=E9... ;-)

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#27: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 14:26:12 by jester

On Tue, 30 May 2006 22:38:10 -0400, Puck
&lt;<a href="mailto:Kormos.4&#64;osu.edu" target="_blank">Kormos.4&#64;osu.edu</a>&gt; wrote:
&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;Because if hedgehog, chocolate, spider and Terry Pratchett are common
&gt;terms on sex groups then the internet is even more twisted and bizarre than
&gt;I had imagined.

You need to turn your imagination up a notch then 8-)


--
Andy Brown
In 1665 Issac Newton became discouraged when he fell up a flight of
stairs.

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#28: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 15:21:12 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 31 May 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: &quot;Arthur Hagen&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt;

&gt; René &lt;<a href="mailto:Kar98&#64;The-Coalition.US" target="_blank">Kar98&#64;The-Coalition.US</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I find your search terms a little unsettling.
&gt;&gt;
&gt; [...]
&gt;&gt; 7 results for vestigial virgins
&gt;
&gt; Hah! Any fule knows there should be 16!

24, surely? (I'm an Invernesian...)

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#29: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 15:23:41 by Brenda

Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:
&gt; The time: 31 May 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
&gt; speaker: &quot;Arthur Hagen&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; René &lt;<a href="mailto:Kar98&#64;The-Coalition.US" target="_blank">Kar98&#64;The-Coalition.US</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I find your search terms a little unsettling.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; [...]
&gt;&gt;&gt; 7 results for vestigial virgins
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Hah! Any fule knows there should be 16!
&gt;
&gt; 24, surely? (I'm an Invernesian...)

As in ...

&quot;I counted them all out and I counted none back in&quot;

........?

--
Ed.

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#30: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 15:31:20 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 31 May 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: René &lt;<a href="mailto:Kar98&#64;The-Coalition.US" target="_blank">Kar98&#64;The-Coalition.US</a>&gt;

&gt; On 2006-05-30 22:03:16 -0500, &quot;Arthur Hagen&quot;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt; said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Puck &lt;<a href="mailto:Kormos.4&#64;osu.edu" target="_blank">Kormos.4&#64;osu.edu</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I'd say that very few of the threads ever go above a
&gt;&gt;&gt; pg-13 rating. How does your school decide what's smut and
&gt;&gt;&gt; what's not? Do they scan for certain words? Because if
&gt;&gt;&gt; hedgehog, chocolate, spider and Terry Pratchett are
&gt;&gt;&gt; common terms on sex groups then the internet is even
&gt;&gt;&gt; more twisted and bizarre than I had imagined.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; A quick google shows:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; shit: 1980 occurrences on a.f.p.
&gt;&gt; piss: 980
&gt;&gt; fuck: 918
&gt;&gt; cunt: 52
&gt;&gt; cocksucker: 3
&gt;&gt; motherfucker: 17
&gt;&gt; tits/teats: 153
&gt;
&gt; I find your search terms a little unsettling.
&gt;
&gt; 9,660 results for sex
&gt; 1,180 results for naked
&gt; 127 results for intercourse
&gt; 65 results for boobs
&gt; 57 results for orgasms (just _one_ doesn't count as sex)
&gt; 7 results for vestigial virgins
&gt;
&gt; Remember? The phrase was &quot;sex groups&quot;?
&gt;

7,700 results for &quot;merkin&quot;...

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#31: Re: completely .[I] Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 15:47:00 by Kar98

On 2006-05-31 06:50:59 -0500, &quot;E.S.&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:eero.suoranta&#64;jtoy.inet.fi" target="_blank">eero.suoranta&#64;jtoy.inet.fi</a>&gt; said:

&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; René wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; 57 results for orgasms (just _one_ doesn't count as sex)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Sure it does!
&gt;
&gt; Just listen to the expert, René... ;-)

Listening? I'm taking freaking notes here :D


--
Dig a moat the length of the Mexican border. Take the dirt, raise the
levees in New Orleans, and put the Florida alligators in the moat.
Are there any other problems you would like for me to solve?

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#32: Re: [M] Afp content

Posted on 2006-05-31 16:36:58 by Thomas Zahr

Orjan Westin posted:

&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:

....

&gt;&gt; You might think &quot;adults&quot; would be clever enough to find
&gt;&gt; topics of discussion that are suitable for younger
&gt;&gt; Pratchett fans to join in, or at least read, without (in
&gt;&gt; some cases) blushing or (in other cases, perhaps) having
&gt;&gt; to hide the screen from their mothers.
&gt;
&gt; Well, we do have topics like that, too. Spiders,
&gt; self-esteem, Washington gun-shots, Eurovision, Dr Who,
&gt; longevity in fiction, existence of soul or absolute morals,
&gt; Shakespeare, Buffy, bread and beer...
&gt;

Weelll. The discussion of course at least partially goes then
to the question of how inclusive a group (in the technical
usenet usage) this is supposed to be.

OTOH content is of course entirely up to the active
participants, and since by definition only our content
happens, we have voted (in some sense or other). Apparently
this includes at least &quot;semi-adult&quot; content including (very)
mild bdsm.

OTOH since nobody knows what the lurkers, let alone potential
lurkers, really want, or don't want for that matter, they are
fairly easy to dismiss.

OTGH we do seem to be just below the threshold of a new
&quot;temple&quot; or similar centred around &quot;Stacie-dom&quot; [1] and all variations
thereof.

I see it as a phase of happy navel gazing, a reaction to the
few *big* threads we had over the last few months.

&gt;&gt; But you'd be wrong.
&gt;
&gt; No, you wouldn't. I think the problem isn't the topics, in
&gt; and of themselves, but a culture, if you will, where sexual
&gt; innuendo and hints are if not the norm then at least rather
&gt; common and seen to be accepted (and in some cases
&gt; encouraged).
&gt;
....

&gt; I take your point, and I actually agree with you to some
&gt; extent. There are many references to sex and sexual
&gt; fetishes here, and more often than not I don't find them
&gt; amusing. There is a lot of flirting going on, from time to
&gt; time, and to me that's largely nul-content posts, too.
&gt;
&gt; But there's not much sex, as such. There are lots of hints
&gt; at sex, and we could do with a lot less of that IMNSHO, but
&gt; unless you put the actual sex in there when you read them,
&gt; they are either completely innocent or incomprehensible.
&gt; And there are plenty of posts that are just plain
&gt; incomprehensible anyway, unfortunatley. Or maybe I'm just
&gt; not getting the sexual references in those.

Unfortunately (or otherwise perhaps) the navel gazing takes
the form of &quot;flirting&quot;, both with certain people and with
certain practices, so much so, that the convention now seems
to be to put (very) mild bdsm in.

So we have to ask ourselves, ok don't have to, but at least
could, if we could up the content, and move off &quot;stacie-dom&quot;,
slightly.

[1] which doesn't have all that much to do with Stacie anyway [2]
[2] but in a certain light Stacie seems to have become the sex dream of
choice hereabouts [3]
[3] to the point that Stacie herself almost can't start a serious thread
anymore (see self esteem)

--
Ciao

Thomas =:-)
&lt;Mine Horn Is Exalted In Om&gt;

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#33: Re: [M] Afp content

Posted on 2006-05-31 17:40:51 by Dom

Thomas Zahr wrote:
&gt; ...
&gt;
&gt; So we have to ask ourselves, ok don't have to, but at least
&gt; could, if we could up the content, and move off &quot;stacie-dom&quot;,
&gt; slightly.

Erm... is this something I missed?

--
Dom
afpSlave to CCA

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#34: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-05-31 17:53:49 by Thomas Zahr

Dom posted:

&gt; Thomas Zahr wrote:
&gt;&gt; ...
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; So we have to ask ourselves, ok don't have to, but at
&gt;&gt; least could, if we could up the content, and move off
&gt;&gt; &quot;stacie-dom&quot;, slightly.
&gt;
&gt; Erm... is this something I missed?
&gt;

Well, I don't know. You tell me. What do you feel, when you
say missed? Is it something you can share with the group?

No?

Ok.

What I meant was: Too many posts concerned with flirting,
preening and making jokes about how many boots an arachnoid
would wear and if they come in big enough sizes to stamp on
arachnophobes (I may have this the wrong way round), and to
few posts that provide something meaty, to get the teeth of
your intellect into.

On the positive side, traffic here is *way* up.

--
Ciao

Thomas =:-)
&lt;If god is omnipotent, why create monday to friday?&gt;

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#35: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-05-31 18:10:05 by Kar98

On 2006-05-31 10:53:49 -0500, Thomas Zahr &lt;<a href="mailto:ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de" target="_blank">ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de</a>&gt; said:

&gt; What I meant was: Too many posts concerned with flirting,
&gt; preening and making jokes about how many boots an arachnoid
&gt; would wear and if they come in big enough sizes to stamp on
&gt; arachnophobes (I may have this the wrong way round), and to
&gt; few posts that provide something meaty, to get the teeth of
&gt; your intellect into.

I could post my neighbor's recipe for twelve-fireant-chili. Upping the
ant, so to speak.


--
The short answer is &quot;Yes.&quot; The long answer is &quot;No.&quot;

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#36: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 19:02:34 by steelcat

In article &lt;km8fg.7170$<a href="mailto:921.2674&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">921.2674&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
&quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;I can't help the people who can't hold up their end of the flirting.

If I could hold up my end, I wouldn't need to flirt!

(Eyethangyew)

Cat.
--
Jazz-Loving Soul Mate and Tolerable Frog to CCA
Kaylee, go find that kid who's takin' a dirt-nap with Baby Jesus; we need
us a hood ornament.

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#37: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 19:02:34 by steelcat

In article &lt;e5iviq$4ft$<a href="mailto:1&#64;charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank">1&#64;charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu</a>&gt;,
&quot;Puck&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:Kormos.4&#64;osu.edu" target="_blank">Kormos.4&#64;osu.edu</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;If this is a sex group then the female posters have seriously been holding
&gt;out on me. ::ducks::

There we are, people: encouraging female posters to have sex with ducks.

Is this the kind of newsgroup I fought for in the war?

OK, so I actually fought in the *ward*.

Well, a nurse threw me out of a ward...

Cat.
--
Jazz-Loving Soul Mate and Tolerable Frog to CCA
Dear Diary...today I was pompous and my sister was crazy.

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#38: Re: [M] Afp content

Posted on 2006-05-31 19:05:00 by Eric Jarvis

Thomas Zahr <a href="mailto:ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de" target="_blank">ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de</a> wrote in
&lt;<a href="mailto:Xns97D4A907439F3ThomasZahrfreenetde&#64;ID-179574.user.uni-berlin.de" target="_blank">Xns97D4A907439F3ThomasZahrfreenetde&#64;ID-179574.user.uni-berlin.de</a>&gt;:
&gt;
&gt; So we have to ask ourselves, ok don't have to, but at least
&gt; could, if we could up the content, and move off &quot;stacie-dom&quot;,
&gt; slightly.
&gt;

A very simple ground rule is this. It's OK to include a certain amount of
flirting in a post that exists for other reasons, if the sole reason for
the post is to flirt then it should probably either be an email or not
exist. Unless, of course, if it's funny.

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
&quot;live fast, die only if strictly necessary&quot;

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#39: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 19:14:24 by Matt Silberstein

On 30 May 2006 17:43:26 -0700, in alt.fan.pratchett , &quot;treesy&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:treesy2&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">treesy2&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; in
&lt;<a href="mailto:1149036206.888463.44980&#64;i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1149036206.888463.44980&#64;i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;1. Introduction.
&gt;Hi, I'm Michael Trees. I'm 17 and a (obviously) big fan of Pratchett's
&gt;works (hands around some chocolates to foster good favour). I live on
&gt;the north coast of NSW in Australia. I've been lurking here for a fair
&gt;while, and finally got the guts to start my own topic.
&gt;
&gt;2. Rant
&gt;The main thing that spurned me to write this is our public school
&gt;censors. Their job is to block innapropriate sites from school networks
&gt;in schools (which I agree with), however, I have cause to think that
&gt;they may be a little heavy handed.
&gt;
&gt;Why, because I recently attempted to log on to afp from school, only to
&gt;find that it had been blocked as an &quot;adult-sex group&quot;. This, naturally,
&gt;has caused much confusion on my part, as I'd been following afp from
&gt;school for over a year before this.

I hate to disappoint you so early in your life, but this is what adult
sex is like. As Bill Waterson pointed out, adult themes are things
like paying bills and taking responsibility. There is a good reason we
keep that from children.

&gt;I will conclude my two sections now with hello, and Aaargh.
&gt;
&gt;treesy.
--
Matt Silberstein

Do something today about the Darfur Genocide

<a href="http://www.beawitness.org" target="_blank">http://www.beawitness.org</a>
<a href="http://www.darfurgenocide.org" target="_blank">http://www.darfurgenocide.org</a>
<a href="http://www.savedarfur.org" target="_blank">http://www.savedarfur.org</a>

&quot;Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop&quot;

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#40: Re: [M] Afp content

Posted on 2006-05-31 19:23:14 by steelcat

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:Xns97D4A907439F3ThomasZahrfreenetde&#64;ID-179574.user.uni-berlin." target="_blank">Xns97D4A907439F3ThomasZahrfreenetde&#64;ID-179574.user.uni-berlin.</a>,
Thomas Zahr &lt;<a href="mailto:ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de" target="_blank">ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;OTGH we do seem to be just below the threshold of a new
&gt;&quot;temple&quot; or similar centred around &quot;Stacie-dom&quot; [1] and all variations
&gt;thereof.

It certainly sounds more likely than &quot;Stacie-Sub&quot;...

Oh, wait... that's the kind of thing you're talking about, isn't it?

Cat.
--
Jazz-Loving Soul Mate and Tolerable Frog to CCA
See, this is a sign of your tragic space dementia. All paranoid and
grouchy.

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#41: Re: [M] Afp content

Posted on 2006-05-31 19:49:48 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Wed, 31 May 2006, The Stainless Steel Cat wrote:

&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:Xns97D4A907439F3ThomasZahrfreenetde&#64;ID-179574.user.uni-berlin." target="_blank">Xns97D4A907439F3ThomasZahrfreenetde&#64;ID-179574.user.uni-berlin.</a>,
&gt; Thomas Zahr &lt;<a href="mailto:ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de" target="_blank">ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt;OTGH we do seem to be just below the threshold of a new
&gt; &gt;&quot;temple&quot; or similar centred around &quot;Stacie-dom&quot; [1] and all variations
&gt; &gt;thereof.
&gt;
&gt; It certainly sounds more likely than &quot;Stacie-Sub&quot;...
&gt;
&gt; Oh, wait... that's the kind of thing you're talking about, isn't it?
&gt;

It leaves me feeling a bit awkward occasionally - I tend to avoid it and
sometimes end up emailing Stacie the pun instead (those paying attention
will've worked out we talk more off-group than on). Thing is, I know I'm
flirting, it's just that the group as a whole doesn't need to pile in on
it...

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

Ivanova is always right.
I will listen to Ivanova.
I will not ignore Ivanova's recomendations.
Ivanova is God.
And, if this ever happens again, Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out!

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#42: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-05-31 19:50:30 by Dom

Thomas Zahr wrote:
&gt; Dom posted:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Thomas Zahr wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; ...
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; So we have to ask ourselves, ok don't have to, but at
&gt;&gt;&gt; least could, if we could up the content, and move off
&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;stacie-dom&quot;, slightly.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Erm... is this something I missed?
&gt;
&gt; Well, I don't know. You tell me. What do you feel, when you
&gt; say missed? Is it something you can share with the group?

Erm..

&gt; No?

Ermm..

&gt; Ok.

(hides)

&gt; What I meant was: Too many posts concerned with flirting,
&gt; preening...

&gt; On the positive side, traffic here is *way* up.

True, and I can never look at the spider I share my shower with
in the same way again :-) (Little minx)

There are smilies in this post, honest.
--
Dom
afpSlave to CCA
(Nothing to do with Stacie, anyone sounding like her, or spider-beings
at all. Please ignore this post, nothing no read, move along...)

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#43: Re: [I] Varieties

Posted on 2006-05-31 20:07:50 by Rocky Frisco

Orjan Westin wrote:
&gt; David Chapman wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;From the Collected Witterings of Anastasia, volume 23:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;René wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;57 results for orgasms (just _one_ doesn't count as sex)
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Sure it does!
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Hanes 57 Varieties?
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Oh, I know that one. First there's nothing, then there's nothing, then
&gt; you give it a smack on the bottom and you get it all at once.
&gt;
&gt; If I had a penny for every meal that's been ruined by a Heinz bottle of
&gt; ketchup, I'd have enough to buy me another meal.

Hanes and Heinz are not synonymous, dear Orjan.

You deal with the Heinz by sticking a knife into its opening and coaxing
the ketchup (catsup) out.

Hanes happens to be the brand name of the pants (underwear) I am
currently wearing under my Wrangler Jeans, both newly bought on Monday.
They are comfortably, softly and warmly clasping my _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _.

-Rocky
--
O'Toole's Corollary: Murphy was an optimist.

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#44: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 20:20:05 by alec

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1149036206.888463.44980&#64;i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1149036206.888463.44980&#64;i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
<a href="mailto:treesy2&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">treesy2&#64;hotmail.com</a> says...
&gt; 1. Introduction.
&gt; Hi, I'm Michael Trees. I'm 17 and a (obviously) big fan of Pratchett's
&gt; works (hands around some chocolates to foster good favour). I live on
&gt; the north coast of NSW in Australia. I've been lurking here for a fair
&gt; while, and finally got the guts to start my own topic.


Hi, welcome aboard. You obviously know the right sort of things to do.

&gt;
&gt; 2. Rant
&gt; The main thing that spurned me to write this is our public school
&gt; censors. Their job is to block innapropriate sites from school networks
&gt; in schools (which I agree with), however, I have cause to think that
&gt; they may be a little heavy handed.
&gt;
&gt; Why, because I recently attempted to log on to afp from school, only to
&gt; find that it had been blocked as an &quot;adult-sex group&quot;. This, naturally,
&gt; has caused much confusion on my part, as I'd been following afp from
&gt; school for over a year before this.

Not uncommon for automated tools to get it wrong. In early days, they
blocked off all the breast cancer support sites. They have got slightly
more sophisticated, but still get it wrong. New Scientist had several
more examples: X-ray crystallography sites becasue it assumed that &quot;X-
ra&quot; had to be followed by &quot;ted&quot;, amateur astronomy sites banned for too
many /naked/ eys observations. But the prize was won by a US High School
which banned its own website because so many references to &quot;high&quot; meant
it obviously had to be drug-related.

Report this message

#45: Re: [M] Afp content

Posted on 2006-05-31 20:44:35 by Rocky Frisco

Thomas Zahr wrote:

&gt; So we have to ask ourselves, ok don't have to, but at least
&gt; could, if we could up the content, and move off &quot;stacie-dom&quot;,
&gt; slightly.

This we have already accomplished. Now it's Anastasia-dom.

-Rocky
--
O'Toole's Corollary: Murphy was an optimist.

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#46: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 20:55:10 by Nigel Stapley

Alec Cawley wrote:

&gt;
&gt; Not uncommon for automated tools to get it wrong. In early days, they
&gt; blocked off all the breast cancer support sites. They have got slightly
&gt; more sophisticated, but still get it wrong.

Still goes on, of course:

<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/5031156.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/5031156.stm</a>

--
Regards

Nigel Stapley

www.judgemental.plus.com

&lt;reply-to will bounce&gt;

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#47: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 21:13:44 by Rocky Frisco

Alec Cawley wrote:

&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1149036206.888463.44980&#64;i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1149036206.888463.44980&#64;i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
&gt; <a href="mailto:treesy2&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">treesy2&#64;hotmail.com</a> says...
&gt;
&gt;&gt;1. Introduction.
&gt;&gt;Hi, I'm Michael Trees. I'm 17 and a (obviously) big fan of Pratchett's
&gt;&gt;works (hands around some chocolates to foster good favour). I live on
&gt;&gt;the north coast of NSW in Australia. I've been lurking here for a fair
&gt;&gt;while, and finally got the guts to start my own topic.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Hi, welcome aboard. You obviously know the right sort of things to do.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;2. Rant
&gt;&gt;The main thing that spurned me to write this is our public school
&gt;&gt;censors. Their job is to block innapropriate sites from school networks
&gt;&gt;in schools (which I agree with), however, I have cause to think that
&gt;&gt;they may be a little heavy handed.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Why, because I recently attempted to log on to afp from school, only to
&gt;&gt;find that it had been blocked as an &quot;adult-sex group&quot;. This, naturally,
&gt;&gt;has caused much confusion on my part, as I'd been following afp from
&gt;&gt;school for over a year before this.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Not uncommon for automated tools to get it wrong. In early days, they
&gt; blocked off all the breast cancer support sites. They have got slightly
&gt; more sophisticated, but still get it wrong. New Scientist had several
&gt; more examples: X-ray crystallography sites becasue it assumed that &quot;X-
&gt; ra&quot; had to be followed by &quot;ted&quot;, amateur astronomy sites banned for too
&gt; many /naked/ eys observations. But the prize was won by a US High School
&gt; which banned its own website because so many references to &quot;high&quot; meant
&gt; it obviously had to be drug-related.

And then there's Scunthorpe.

-Rocky
--
O'Toole's Corollary: Murphy was an optimist.

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#48: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 21:59:29 by Stacie Hanes

Eric Jarvis wrote:
&gt; Anastasia <a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a> wrote in
&gt; &lt;km8fg.7170$<a href="mailto:921.2674&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">921.2674&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I can't help the people who can't hold up their end of the
&gt;&gt; flirting.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Surely when they hold up their end it's something other than
&gt; flirting?

I think that depends on which end and where it's aimed.
--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

Report this message

#49: Re: [M] Afp content

Posted on 2006-05-31 22:11:17 by Stacie Hanes

Thomas Zahr wrote:

&gt; OTGH we do seem to be just below the threshold of a new
&gt; &quot;temple&quot; or similar centred around &quot;Stacie-dom&quot; [1] and all
&gt; variations thereof.

Don't think that Stacie hasn't noticed. Stacie can't deny enjoying the
attention, to a point, but Stacie has also started several serious threads
in the past week or so in an effort to change the subject.

I admit it, I was trying to forcibly shift the content away from Those
Threads, by myself if necessary, but y'all joined right in, so I call it
good.

&gt; So we have to ask ourselves, ok don't have to, but at least
&gt; could, if we could up the content, and move off &quot;stacie-dom&quot;,
&gt; slightly.

Yes, please, just a bit.

&gt; [1] which doesn't have all that much to do with Stacie anyway [2]

That's a bit of a relief.

&gt; [2] but in a certain light Stacie seems to have become the sex
&gt; dream of choice hereabouts

Honestly, I am *not* sure how that happened. (I gotta share that I
originally typoed &quot;sore&quot; instead of sure.) [3]


&gt; [3] to the point that Stacie herself almost can't start a serious
&gt; thread anymore (see self esteem)


Yes I can! It just takes some fairly serious effort to keep it that way.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

Report this message

#50: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 22:12:05 by Diane L

treesy wrote:
&gt; 1. Introduction.
&gt; Hi, I'm Michael Trees. I'm 17 and a (obviously) big fan of Pratchett's
&gt; works (hands around some chocolates to foster good favour). I live on
&gt; the north coast of NSW in Australia. I've been lurking here for a fair
&gt; while, and finally got the guts to start my own topic.

OK, since the thread seems to have been hijacked into [M]-dom I'll
try to get back to welcoming you to afp (although I've seen you
around afp for quite a while now, unless I'm confusing you with some
other tree). Pull up a crocodile, mind the drink, have a cat and call the
chair a bastard.

&gt;
&gt; 2. Rant
&gt; The main thing that spurned me to write this is our public school
&gt; censors. Their job is to block innapropriate sites from school
&gt; networks in schools (which I agree with), however, I have cause to
&gt; think that they may be a little heavy handed.
&gt;
&gt; Why, because I recently attempted to log on to afp from school, only
&gt; to find that it had been blocked as an &quot;adult-sex group&quot;. This,
&gt; naturally, has caused much confusion on my part, as I'd been
&gt; following afp from school for over a year before this.

On a completely ... um ... related note, a recent project with Year
7 showed that it is much easier for someone searching from a school
connection to find pictures of penises than it is to find pictures of
vaginas. Make of this what you will.

&gt;
&gt; I will conclude my two sections now with hello, and Aaargh.

Right back at ya.

Diane L.

Report this message

#51: Re: [M] Afp content

Posted on 2006-05-31 22:14:06 by Stacie Hanes

Rocky Frisco wrote:
&gt; Thomas Zahr wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; So we have to ask ourselves, ok don't have to, but at least
&gt;&gt; could, if we could up the content, and move off &quot;stacie-dom&quot;,
&gt;&gt; slightly.
&gt;
&gt; This we have already accomplished. Now it's Anastasia-dom.

That was my Witness Protection Program! Damn it, now even the newbies will
know.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

Report this message

#52: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 22:17:06 by Diane L

Puck wrote:

&lt;snip&gt;
&gt; I'd say that very few of the threads ever go above a pg-13 rating.
&gt; How does your school decide what's smut and what's not? Do they scan
&gt; for certain words? Because if hedgehog, chocolate, spider and Terry
&gt; Pratchett are common terms on sex groups then the internet is even
&gt; more twisted and bizarre than I had imagined.

The internet is not only more twisted and bizarre than you had imagined,
it is more twisted and bizarre than you can imagine.

:-)

Diane L.

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#53: Re: (I) Re: semi- {R} Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 22:17:34 by Stacie Hanes

redtiger wrote:
&gt; &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:VI8fg.7180$<a href="mailto:921.4403&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net..." target="_blank">921.4403&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...</a>
&gt;&gt; René wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; 57 results for orgasms (just _one_ doesn't count as sex)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Sure it does!
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Stacie talking about 57 and orgasms.
&gt; You know we're going to have to put a gag order on that don't you.

Ph, crud, I didn't even NOTICE that.
--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

Report this message

#54: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 22:19:58 by Steve Rogers

&quot;Rocky Frisco&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:rocknatural&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rocknatural&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:DVlfg.205897$<a href="mailto:5Z.11812&#64;dukeread02..." target="_blank">5Z.11812&#64;dukeread02...</a>
&gt; Alec Cawley wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1149036206.888463.44980&#64;i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1149036206.888463.44980&#64;i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:treesy2&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">treesy2&#64;hotmail.com</a> says...
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;1. Introduction.
&gt;&gt;&gt;Hi, I'm Michael Trees. I'm 17 and a (obviously) big fan of
&gt;&gt;&gt;Pratchett's
&gt;&gt;&gt;works (hands around some chocolates to foster good favour). I live on
&gt;&gt;&gt;the north coast of NSW in Australia. I've been lurking here for a
&gt;&gt;&gt;fair
&gt;&gt;&gt;while, and finally got the guts to start my own topic.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Hi, welcome aboard. You obviously know the right sort of things to
&gt;&gt; do.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;2. Rant
&gt;&gt;&gt;The main thing that spurned me to write this is our public school
&gt;&gt;&gt;censors. Their job is to block innapropriate sites from school
&gt;&gt;&gt;networks
&gt;&gt;&gt;in schools (which I agree with), however, I have cause to think that
&gt;&gt;&gt;they may be a little heavy handed.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Why, because I recently attempted to log on to afp from school, only
&gt;&gt;&gt;to
&gt;&gt;&gt;find that it had been blocked as an &quot;adult-sex group&quot;. This,
&gt;&gt;&gt;naturally,
&gt;&gt;&gt;has caused much confusion on my part, as I'd been following afp from
&gt;&gt;&gt;school for over a year before this.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Not uncommon for automated tools to get it wrong. In early days, they
&gt;&gt; blocked off all the breast cancer support sites. They have got
&gt;&gt; slightly more sophisticated, but still get it wrong. New Scientist
&gt;&gt; had several more examples: X-ray crystallography sites becasue it
&gt;&gt; assumed that &quot;X-
&gt;&gt; ra&quot; had to be followed by &quot;ted&quot;, amateur astronomy sites banned for
&gt;&gt; too many /naked/ eys observations. But the prize was won by a US High
&gt;&gt; School which banned its own website because so many references to
&gt;&gt; &quot;high&quot; meant it obviously had to be drug-related.
&gt;
&gt; And then there's Scunthorpe.
&gt;
And Essex and Wessex

Steve

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#55: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-05-31 22:22:48 by sphira9343

Thomas Zahr wrote:

&gt; What I meant was: Too many posts concerned with flirting,
&gt; preening and making jokes about how many boots an arachnoid
&gt; would wear and if they come in big enough sizes to stamp on
&gt; arachnophobes (I may have this the wrong way round), and to
&gt; few posts that provide something meaty, to get the teeth of
&gt; your intellect into.

Hmmm...
I've noticed 'spiders' as a theme popping quite a bit recently, and
while it doesn't bother me, I know that sort of thing sometimes leads
to grumpiness around here. It would be a shame if that happened now,
because there have also been a lot of interesting and good-natured
threads such as the self-esteem one, and they're a bit of a change
after the heavy 'abortion, child-rearing, religion, etc' ones we've
been having recently, not to mention the many huge rows that seemed to
take place during the first few months of this year.

CCA

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#56: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-05-31 22:24:46 by sphira9343

Dom wrote:
&gt; Thomas Zahr wrote:

&gt; &gt; So we have to ask ourselves, ok don't have to, but at least
&gt; &gt; could, if we could up the content, and move off &quot;stacie-dom&quot;,
&gt; &gt; slightly.

&gt; Erm... is this something I missed?

It means you've been turning into Stacie at night, like Jekyll and Hyde
;-) Or possibly the other way around...

CCA
--
Afpmistress to Dom

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#57: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 22:33:34 by sphira9343

Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; We also have at least one regular here who does not consider himself a
&gt; &quot;fundie&quot;, who would love to be able to allow his Pratchett-reading children
&gt; to read afp, but can't because the level of so-called &quot;adult&quot; talk is way
&gt; too high.
&gt; You might think &quot;adults&quot; would be clever enough to find topics of discussion
&gt; that are suitable for younger Pratchett fans to join in, or at least read,
&gt; without (in some cases) blushing or (in other cases, perhaps) having to
&gt; hide the screen from their mothers.
&gt; But you'd be wrong.

But it is primarily a newsgroup for adults, and if you have a large
group of adults in one place, you're going to get them discussing adult
topics, and probably using a few swear words too[1]. It's just a fact
of life.
[1] By which I do not mean excessive swearing in the style of Pumba.
There are limits to everything, after all.
CCA

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#58: Re: [I] Varieties

Posted on 2006-05-31 22:36:47 by Stacie Hanes

Rocky Frisco wrote:

&gt; They are comfortably, softly and warmly clasping my _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _.

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE OTHER ONE!?!?!?
--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

Report this message

#59: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-05-31 22:49:46 by sphira9343

Anastasia wrote:
&gt; Thomas Zahr wrote:

&gt; &gt; OTGH we do seem to be just below the threshold of a new
&gt; &gt; &quot;temple&quot; or similar centred around &quot;Stacie-dom&quot; [1] and all
&gt; &gt; variations thereof.

&gt; Don't think that Stacie hasn't noticed. Stacie can't deny enjoying the
&gt; attention, to a point, but Stacie has also started several serious threads
&gt; in the past week or so in an effort to change the subject.

I felt the same a few years ago, when the amount of 'CCA' and 'things
to do with gold or chocolate' threads had got to the point where I got
the impression that some people were starting to resent me being around


&gt; &gt; So we have to ask ourselves, ok don't have to, but at least
&gt; &gt; could, if we could up the content, and move off &quot;stacie-dom&quot;,
&gt; &gt; slightly.

&gt; Yes, please, just a bit.

I'd been wondering if it was sometimes making you feel a mite
uncomfortable.

&gt; &gt; [2] but in a certain light Stacie seems to have become the sex
&gt; &gt; dream of choice hereabouts

&gt; Honestly, I am *not* sure how that happened. (I gotta share that I
&gt; originally typoed &quot;sore&quot; instead of sure.) [3]

I think it's one of those things that just builds up and up, often
without very much encouragement from the poster herself (or himself,
although I can't remember the same happening to a male poster here.)
CCA

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#60: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-05-31 22:56:34 by Brenda

CCA said:

&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; You might think &quot;adults&quot; would be clever enough to find topics of
&gt;&gt; discussion that are suitable for younger Pratchett fans to join in, or at
&gt;&gt; least read, without (in some cases) blushing or (in other cases, perhaps)
&gt;&gt; having to hide the screen from their mothers.
&gt;&gt; But you'd be wrong.
&gt;
&gt; But it is primarily a newsgroup for adults,

Surely it is primarily a newsgroup for Terry Pratchett fans. He has written
several excellent stories for children.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#61: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-05-31 23:12:31 by Stacie Hanes

CCA wrote:
&gt; Anastasia wrote:

&gt;&gt; Honestly, I am *not* sure how that happened. (I gotta share that I
&gt;&gt; originally typoed &quot;sore&quot; instead of sure.) [3]
&gt;
&gt; I think it's one of those things that just builds up and up, often
&gt; without very much encouragement from the poster herself (or himself,
&gt; although I can't remember the same happening to a male poster here.)

Well, I know I've played along. It's been a helluva lot of fun, mostly. But
sometimes a bit much of a muchness, IYKWIM.

I have considered changing my posting name and e-mail addy and coming back
in another incarnation, because I think &quot;uh, maybe I should take a break
from afp&quot; isn't really the thing to do.
--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

Report this message

#62: Re: [M] Afp content

Posted on 2006-05-31 23:22:48 by Hendrik Schober

Eric Jarvis &lt;<a href="mailto:usenet&#64;ericjarvis.co.uk" target="_blank">usenet&#64;ericjarvis.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Thomas Zahr <a href="mailto:ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de" target="_blank">ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de</a> wrote in
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:Xns97D4A907439F3ThomasZahrfreenetde&#64;ID-179574.user.uni-berlin.de" target="_blank">Xns97D4A907439F3ThomasZahrfreenetde&#64;ID-179574.user.uni-berlin.de</a>&gt;:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; So we have to ask ourselves, ok don't have to, but at least
&gt; &gt; could, if we could up the content, and move off &quot;stacie-dom&quot;,
&gt; &gt; slightly.
&gt; &gt;
&gt;
&gt; A very simple ground rule is this. It's OK to include a certain amount of
&gt; flirting in a post that exists for other reasons, if the sole reason for
&gt; the post is to flirt then it should probably either be an email or not
&gt; exist. Unless, of course, if it's funny.

Define funny.

Schobi

--
<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a> is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

&quot;The sarcasm is mightier than the sword.&quot;
Eric Jarvis

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#63: Re: [I] Ketchup (was: Varieties (was: Introduction and general rant.))

Posted on 2006-05-31 23:26:36 by Hendrik Schober

Orjan Westin &lt;<a href="mailto:nospam&#64;cunobaros.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;cunobaros.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; [...]
&gt; Oh, I know that one. First there's nothing, then there's nothing, then
&gt; you give it a smack on the bottom and you get it all at once.
&gt;
&gt; If I had a penny for every meal that's been ruined by a Heinz bottle of
&gt; ketchup, I'd have enough to buy me another meal.

But Ketchup will ruins the meal anyway, no matter
how little you manage to get out of the bottle and
onto the meal. (FiX'll be with me on that.)

Schobi

--
<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a> is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

&quot;The sarcasm is mightier than the sword.&quot;
Eric Jarvis

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#64: Re: [M] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 00:02:38 by Orjan Westin

Hendrik Schober wrote:
&gt; Eric Jarvis &lt;<a href="mailto:usenet&#64;ericjarvis.co.uk" target="_blank">usenet&#64;ericjarvis.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; A very simple ground rule is this. It's OK to include a certain
&gt;&gt; amount of flirting in a post that exists for other reasons, if the
&gt;&gt; sole reason for the post is to flirt then it should probably either
&gt;&gt; be an email or not exist. Unless, of course, if it's funny.
&gt;
&gt; Define funny.

It's to bunny what &quot;bucked up&quot; is to... ah... replies like this.

Orjan
--
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
Fiction, Thoughts and Software
<a href="http://www.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://www.cunobaros.com/</a>

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#65: Re: [I] Ketchup (was: Varieties (was: Introduction and general rant.))

Posted on 2006-06-01 00:17:57 by Puck

Hendrik Schober wrote:
&gt; Orjan Westin &lt;<a href="mailto:nospam&#64;cunobaros.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;cunobaros.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; [...]
&gt;&gt; Oh, I know that one. First there's nothing, then there's nothing,
&gt;&gt; then you give it a smack on the bottom and you get it all at once.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; If I had a penny for every meal that's been ruined by a Heinz bottle
&gt;&gt; of ketchup, I'd have enough to buy me another meal.
&gt;
&gt; But Ketchup will ruins the meal anyway, no matter
&gt; how little you manage to get out of the bottle and
&gt; onto the meal. (FiX'll be with me on that.)
&gt;
&gt; Schobi


I pretty much agree. Ketchup is the most overused condiment in the world.
--
Puck (onstage): I am that merry wanderer of the night!
Peaseblossom (in audience): &quot;I am that merry wanderer of the night&quot;,
indeed! &quot;I am that
giggling-dangerous-totally-bloody-psychotic-menace-to-life and limb,
more like.&quot; -Neil Gaiman

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#66: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 00:20:45 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Wed, 31 May 2006, CCA wrote:

&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt; &gt; Thomas Zahr wrote:
&gt; &gt; &gt; [2] but in a certain light Stacie seems to have become the sex
&gt; &gt; &gt; dream of choice hereabouts
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Honestly, I am *not* sure how that happened. (I gotta share that I
&gt; &gt; originally typoed &quot;sore&quot; instead of sure.) [3]
&gt;
&gt; I think it's one of those things that just builds up and up, often
&gt; without very much encouragement from the poster herself (or himself,
&gt; although I can't remember the same happening to a male poster here.)

It's happened to me to an extent with haskellers, although I guess to an
extent part of that's my fault for being rather openly bi poly switch
around some of them. Oh, and there's this article I wrote that took the
term &quot;B&amp;D language&quot; and ran with it. But you don't have to do a whole lot
of actual flirting...

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

Ivanova is always right.
I will listen to Ivanova.
I will not ignore Ivanova's recomendations.
Ivanova is God.
And, if this ever happens again, Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out!

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#67: Re: [M] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 00:31:34 by Kar98

On 2006-05-31 16:22:48 -0500, &quot;Hendrik Schober&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a>&gt; said:

&gt; Define funny.

Funny is, everybody else laughs, but the German wants a definition.


--
The short answer is &quot;Yes.&quot; The long answer is &quot;No.&quot;

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#68: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 00:36:24 by Orjan Westin

Philippa Cowderoy wrote:
&gt; On Wed, 31 May 2006, CCA wrote:
&gt;&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Thomas Zahr wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [2] but in a certain light Stacie seems to have become the sex
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; dream of choice hereabouts
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Honestly, I am *not* sure how that happened. (I gotta share that I
&gt;&gt;&gt; originally typoed &quot;sore&quot; instead of sure.) [3]
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I think it's one of those things that just builds up and up, often
&gt;&gt; without very much encouragement from the poster herself (or himself,
&gt;&gt; although I can't remember the same happening to a male poster here.)
&gt;
&gt; It's happened to me to an extent with haskellers, although I guess to
&gt; an extent part of that's my fault for being rather openly bi poly
&gt; switch around some of them. Oh, and there's this article I wrote that
&gt; took the term &quot;B&amp;D language&quot; and ran with it. But you don't have to
&gt; do a whole lot of actual flirting...

Being openly and blatantly female on the Internet is in some cases all it
takes.

Orjan
--
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
Fiction, Thoughts and Software
<a href="http://www.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://www.cunobaros.com/</a>

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#69: Re: [I] Varieties

Posted on 2006-06-01 00:47:53 by Rocky Frisco

Anastasia wrote:

&gt; Rocky Frisco wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;They are comfortably, softly and warmly clasping my _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; WHAT HAPPENED TO THE OTHER ONE!?!?!?

All are there, I assure you. You may have guessed wrong on the terminology.

Reminds me of the one about the young lady's question: &quot;Is anything worn
under your kilt?&quot;

&quot;Nay, lassie, it's as good as ever!&quot;

-Rocky
--
O'Toole's Corollary: Murphy was an optimist.

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#70: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 00:54:21 by sphira9343

Anastasia wrote:
&gt; CCA wrote:
&gt; &gt; Anastasia wrote:

&gt; &gt;&gt; Honestly, I am *not* sure how that happened. (I gotta share that I
&gt; &gt;&gt; originally typoed &quot;sore&quot; instead of sure.) [3]

&gt; &gt; I think it's one of those things that just builds up and up, often
&gt; &gt; without very much encouragement from the poster herself (or himself,
&gt; &gt; although I can't remember the same happening to a male poster here.)

&gt; Well, I know I've played along. It's been a helluva lot of fun, mostly. But
&gt; sometimes a bit much of a muchness, IYKWIM.
&gt; I have considered changing my posting name and e-mail addy and coming back
&gt; in another incarnation, because I think &quot;uh, maybe I should take a break
&gt; from afp&quot; isn't really the thing to do.

I don't really think you need to do those things, and certainly not
take a break from afp unless you really feel you need to.
CCA

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#71: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 01:20:23 by Leo Breebaart

&quot;CCA&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; writes:

&gt; I've noticed 'spiders' as a theme popping quite a bit recently,
&gt; and while it doesn't bother me, I know that sort of thing
&gt; sometimes leads to grumpiness around here.

I didn't say anything!!!


&gt; It would be a shame if that happened now, because there have
&gt; also been a lot of interesting and good-natured threads such as
&gt; the self-esteem one, and they're a bit of a change after the
&gt; heavy 'abortion, child-rearing, religion, etc' ones we've been
&gt; having recently, not to mention the many huge rows that seemed
&gt; to take place during the first few months of this year.

Yeah, that's more or less the reason *why* I haven't said
anything.

--
Leo Breebaart &lt;<a href="mailto:leo&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">leo&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt;

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#72: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 01:53:38 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:Xns97D4B60ECE797ThomasZahrfreenetde&#64;ID-179574.user.uni-berlin.de" target="_blank">Xns97D4B60ECE797ThomasZahrfreenetde&#64;ID-179574.user.uni-berlin.de</a>,
Thomas Zahr at <a href="mailto:ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de" target="_blank">ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de</a> wrote on 31/05/2006 8:53 AM:


&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; What I meant was: Too many posts concerned with flirting,
&gt; preening and making jokes about how many boots an arachnoid
&gt; would wear and if they come in big enough sizes to stamp on
&gt; arachnophobes (I may have this the wrong way round), and to
&gt; few posts that provide something meaty, to get the teeth of
&gt; your intellect into.

But when we do have meaty threads, people complain that there's too much Big
Issue stuff. Perhaps the best thing is for people to post whatever they want
(subject to the normal standards of common courtesy, of course), and then
for people to read whichever threads they like and ignore the ones they
don't like.
&gt;
&gt; On the positive side, traffic here is *way* up.

That may or may not be a Good Thing; there are only 24 hours in a day...

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#73: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 01:57:19 by Arthur Hagen

Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; CCA said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; You might think &quot;adults&quot; would be clever enough to find topics of
&gt;&gt;&gt; discussion that are suitable for younger Pratchett fans to join in,
&gt;&gt;&gt; or at least read, without (in some cases) blushing or (in other
&gt;&gt;&gt; cases, perhaps) having to hide the screen from their mothers.
&gt;&gt;&gt; But you'd be wrong.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; But it is primarily a newsgroup for adults,
&gt;
&gt; Surely it is primarily a newsgroup for Terry Pratchett fans. He has
&gt; written several excellent stories for children.

And several more for adults. Should one limit oneself to the children's
level because he's also written children's books?

Regards,
--
*Art

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#74: Re: [I] Varieties

Posted on 2006-06-01 02:00:11 by Arthur Hagen

Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Rocky Frisco wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; They are comfortably, softly and warmly clasping my _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _.
&gt;
&gt; WHAT HAPPENED TO THE OTHER ONE!?!?!?

He played with his navel.

--
*Art

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#75: [M]Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 02:04:30 by Karen

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:Pine.WNT.4.61.0605311846410.884&#64;SLINKY" target="_blank">Pine.WNT.4.61.0605311846410.884&#64;SLINKY</a>&gt;, Philippa Cowderoy
&lt;<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>&gt; writes
&gt;On Wed, 31 May 2006, The Stainless Steel Cat wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:Xns97D4A907439F3ThomasZahrfreenetde&#64;ID-179574.user.uni-berlin." target="_blank">Xns97D4A907439F3ThomasZahrfreenetde&#64;ID-179574.user.uni-berlin.</a>,
&gt;&gt; Thomas Zahr &lt;<a href="mailto:ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de" target="_blank">ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;OTGH we do seem to be just below the threshold of a new
&gt;&gt; &gt;&quot;temple&quot; or similar centred around &quot;Stacie-dom&quot; [1] and all variations
&gt;&gt; &gt;thereof.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; It certainly sounds more likely than &quot;Stacie-Sub&quot;...
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Oh, wait... that's the kind of thing you're talking about, isn't it?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;It leaves me feeling a bit awkward occasionally - I tend to avoid it and
&gt;sometimes end up emailing Stacie the pun instead (those paying attention
&gt;will've worked out we talk more off-group than on). Thing is, I know I'm
&gt;flirting, it's just that the group as a whole doesn't need to pile in on
&gt;it...
&gt;

Yes that is good advice in my experience and I can really identify with
that sentiment. I tend to follow up by mail more often than by post
because quite often the comment or question I have is more appropriate
in that form and not really of interest to the wider group or a publicly
archived medium.

That goes double if its of a more direct and personal nature, like a
congratulations or condolences or simply a personal joke/comment. Not
everything needs validating by being said in public.



--
Karen/hypatia <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>
New? Check <a href="http://www.lspace.org" target="_blank">http://www.lspace.org</a>
Confused? Mail the Clue Fairies at <a href="mailto:afp-help&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">afp-help&#64;lspace.org</a>
Discworld Convention 2006, August 18-21, <a href="http://www.dwcon.org" target="_blank">http://www.dwcon.org</a>

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#76: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 02:07:48 by Arthur Hagen

Rocky Frisco &lt;<a href="mailto:rocknatural&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rocknatural&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; And then there's Scunthorpe.

Don't forget Washita (over in your neighborhood, unless I'm mistaken) :-)

Regards,
--
*Art

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#77: Re: [M] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 02:17:14 by Leo Breebaart

&quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; writes:

&gt; Thomas Zahr wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; OTGH we do seem to be just below the threshold of a new
&gt; &gt; &quot;temple&quot; or similar centred around &quot;Stacie-dom&quot; [1] and all
&gt; &gt; variations thereof.
&gt;
&gt; Don't think that Stacie hasn't noticed. Stacie can't deny
&gt; enjoying the attention, to a point, [...] I am *not* sure how
&gt; that happened.

I am not sure why things evolved this way, but almost from the
very beginning of the newsgroup, afp has often featured a
resident 'alpha female' who becomes the focus of much on-line
banter and flirtation. You are the current incarnation, but
before you it was CCA, and before her we had e.g. Michelena
(anybody remember the Testosterone Brigade?) and Colette
(cabbages at dawn!) and the Temple (a rare instance of a queen
hive) and probably many others I've forgotten, going all the way
back to Laura Johnson inspiring the afp marriage proposal fad in
1994.

And yeah, usually other people get grumpy about it after a while,
typically at the point where the flirting starts to crop up and
take over completely unrelated threads, as has been happening for
some time now with e.g. the 'spider' meme. Usually, once
grumpiness has been expressed or hinted at, things tend to die
down for a while, but occasionally feathers get ruffled and
before you know it we achieve, as Orjan so eloquently put it,
flirtquake.

Anyways, if you are yourself getting a bit bored with being the
reigning afp alpha queen, the best remedy I can suggest is to
simply stop responding to overly obvious attempts to impress you.
Without your active participation the situation should normalise
itself quickly. CCA handled it that way too, and it worked like a
charm.

--
Leo Breebaart &lt;<a href="mailto:leo&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">leo&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt;

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#78: Re: [I] Ketchup (was: Varieties (was: Introduction and general

Posted on 2006-06-01 02:33:26 by Lesley Weston

in article 447e0cf6$0$11069$<a href="mailto:9b4e6d93&#64;newsread4.arcor-online.net" target="_blank">9b4e6d93&#64;newsread4.arcor-online.net</a>, Hendrik
Schober at <a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a> wrote on 31/05/2006 2:26 PM:

&gt; Orjan Westin &lt;<a href="mailto:nospam&#64;cunobaros.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;cunobaros.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; [...]
&gt;&gt; Oh, I know that one. First there's nothing, then there's nothing, then
&gt;&gt; you give it a smack on the bottom and you get it all at once.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; If I had a penny for every meal that's been ruined by a Heinz bottle of
&gt;&gt; ketchup, I'd have enough to buy me another meal.
&gt;
&gt; But Ketchup will ruins the meal anyway, no matter
&gt; how little you manage to get out of the bottle and
&gt; onto the meal. (FiX'll be with me on that.)

Unless the meal is bangers-and-mash or anything with fries; then ketchup is
essential. We had fish and chips at the beach for lunch today, and the
ketchup dispenser wasn't working. We had to make do with sauce tartar, which
was not really an adequate substitute. It was still a good meal though,
possibly because we had walked for miles along the beach and in the adjacent
marshland before eating it. Boundary Bay, for those afpers who know the
Lower Mainland (all three of us); Baker was looking particularly magnificent
and unusually close, and there were many eagles and herons and a wonderful
butterfly of a type I've never seen before, and the swallows are back.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#79: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 02:34:11 by Karen

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1149108586.253282.256650&#64;u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1149108586.253282.256650&#64;u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;, CCA
&lt;<a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; writes
&gt;Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt; Thomas Zahr wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; OTGH we do seem to be just below the threshold of a new
&gt;&gt; &gt; &quot;temple&quot; or similar centred around &quot;Stacie-dom&quot; [1] and all
&gt;&gt; &gt; variations thereof.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Don't think that Stacie hasn't noticed. Stacie can't deny enjoying the
&gt;&gt; attention, to a point, but Stacie has also started several serious threads
&gt;&gt; in the past week or so in an effort to change the subject.
&gt;
&gt;I felt the same a few years ago, when the amount of 'CCA' and 'things
&gt;to do with gold or chocolate' threads had got to the point where I got
&gt;the impression that some people were starting to resent me being around


I think the problem was the mass of similar patterned threads. Even
chocolate can get too much when taken to excess. I still think its to
your particular credit that when you realised the effect it was having
you made a point of actually asking specific posters to reduce it, you
seemed to be trying to take care not to encouraging the posters who
posted in that manner (and Om knows it doesn't take much) and as I
recall you diverted some of the more personalised IRC like banter off
group to a more appropriate medium.
I also thought it was quite cool that you had a book published and never
uttered a word that I could recall until it was out - few people would
have resisted that temptation. Somewhere in between times the maya gold
banter of appreciation and congratulation turned into a repetitive
dairy milk excess with each thread apparently trying to outdo the
previous and that was where it became overwhelming. Too much of a good
thing and all that.


&gt;&gt; &gt; [2] but in a certain light Stacie seems to have become the sex
&gt;&gt; &gt; dream of choice hereabouts
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Honestly, I am *not* sure how that happened. (I gotta share that I
&gt;&gt; originally typoed &quot;sore&quot; instead of sure.) [3]


Well engaging in banter about belly buttons with photographs, sexual
preferences, clothing preferences etc is all it takes sometimes

&gt;
&gt;I think it's one of those things that just builds up and up, often
&gt;without very much encouragement from the poster herself (or himself,
&gt;although I can't remember the same happening to a male poster here.)

Oh there have been some toe curling male icons and objects as well at
times...the archives have it :)


--
Karen/hypatia <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>
New? Check <a href="http://www.lspace.org" target="_blank">http://www.lspace.org</a>
Confused? Mail the Clue Fairies at <a href="mailto:afp-help&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">afp-help&#64;lspace.org</a>
Discworld Convention 2006, August 18-21, <a href="http://www.dwcon.org" target="_blank">http://www.dwcon.org</a>

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#80: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 02:45:33 by Rocky Frisco

Arthur Hagen wrote:

&gt; Rocky Frisco &lt;<a href="mailto:rocknatural&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rocknatural&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;&gt; And then there's Scunthorpe.

&gt; Don't forget Washita (over in your neighborhood, unless I'm mistaken) :-)

Yes, definitely in Oklahoma.

-Rocky
--
O'Toole's Corollary: Murphy was an optimist.

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#81: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 02:52:41 by Steve Rogers

&quot;Arthur Hagen&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:e5lagv$9ch$<a href="mailto:1&#64;tree.broomstick.com..." target="_blank">1&#64;tree.broomstick.com...</a>
&gt; Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; CCA said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; You might think &quot;adults&quot; would be clever enough to find topics of
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; discussion that are suitable for younger Pratchett fans to join in,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; or at least read, without (in some cases) blushing or (in other
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; cases, perhaps) having to hide the screen from their mothers.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; But you'd be wrong.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; But it is primarily a newsgroup for adults,
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Surely it is primarily a newsgroup for Terry Pratchett fans. He has
&gt;&gt; written several excellent stories for children.
&gt;
&gt; And several more for adults. Should one limit oneself to the
&gt; children's level because he's also written children's books?
&gt;

I would say no, but to be aware that there may be little ears about as
opposed to Big Ears who is currently doing time for nicking Noddy's
bell.

Steve

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#82: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 02:58:09 by Shmoe

&quot;Daibhid Ceanaideach&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:Xns97D493C5ACD48daibhid&#64;130.133.1.4..." target="_blank">Xns97D493C5ACD48daibhid&#64;130.133.1.4...</a>



&gt; &gt; Remember? The phrase was &quot;sex groups&quot;?
&gt; &gt;
&gt;
&gt; 7,700 results for &quot;merkin&quot;...

Ooh, an excellent point, Daibhid! I think that term gets used so much here
that some of us forget that it has a slightly different meaning to the rest
of the world...

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#83: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 02:59:34 by Shmoe

&quot;The Stainless Steel Cat&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:steelcat&#64;atuin.demon.co.uk" target="_blank">steelcat&#64;atuin.demon.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:C0A38ABA96681BA7EE&#64;192.168.0.2..." target="_blank">C0A38ABA96681BA7EE&#64;192.168.0.2...</a>
&gt; In article &lt;e5iviq$4ft$<a href="mailto:1&#64;charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank">1&#64;charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu</a>&gt;,
&gt; &quot;Puck&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:Kormos.4&#64;osu.edu" target="_blank">Kormos.4&#64;osu.edu</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt;If this is a sex group then the female posters have seriously been
holding
&gt; &gt;out on me. ::ducks::
&gt;
&gt; There we are, people: encouraging female posters to have sex with ducks.
&gt;
&gt; Is this the kind of newsgroup I fought for in the war?
&gt;
&gt; OK, so I actually fought in the *ward*.
&gt;
&gt; Well, a nurse threw me out of a ward...
&gt;
&gt; Cat.
&gt; --
&gt; Jazz-Loving Soul Mate and Tolerable Frog to CCA
&gt; Dear Diary...today I was pompous and my sister was crazy

You were lucky...*MY* nurse locked me *INTO* a ward...

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#84: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 03:13:59 by treesy2

treesy a =E9crit :


&gt; Why, because I recently attempted to log on to afp from school, only to
&gt; find that it had been blocked as an &quot;adult-sex group&quot;. This, naturally,
&gt; has caused much confusion on my part, as I'd been following afp from
&gt; school for over a year before this.
&gt;
&gt; I will conclude my two sections now with hello, and Aaargh.

As an update, my situation has been resolved. While they blocked afp on
groups.google.com, they failed to block it on groups.google.fr so I'm
in the clear.

thanks for the warm welcome, and I hope I got the tag right.

treesy.

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#85: [I] was semi(R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 03:47:03 by Karen

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1149124438.955250.173010&#64;j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1149124438.955250.173010&#64;j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
treesy &lt;<a href="mailto:treesy2&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">treesy2&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; writes
&gt;
&gt;treesy a écrit :
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Why, because I recently attempted to log on to afp from school, only to
&gt;&gt; find that it had been blocked as an &quot;adult-sex group&quot;. This, naturally,
&gt;&gt; has caused much confusion on my part, as I'd been following afp from
&gt;&gt; school for over a year before this.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I will conclude my two sections now with hello, and Aaargh.
&gt;
&gt;As an update, my situation has been resolved. While they blocked afp on
&gt;groups.google.com, they failed to block it on groups.google.fr so I'm
&gt;in the clear.

You may find you need to keep moving between countries, it depends on
how they track access etc and how they use the proxies. Had they blocked
all alt* groups? That is quite common on newsfeeds as well in
workplaces/schools. Posting is easier if you can find a regular
newsfeed somehow but it doesn't sound like you will get one at school
(and you do know that Usenet was invented as the ultimate displacement
activity - right?)
&gt;
&gt;thanks for the warm welcome, and I hope I got the tag right.

plenty close enough since you were talking about the newsgroup
availability and rather more to the point I notice that Google hasn't
stripped the round bracketed tag out of the title, (it strips out the
square bracketed tags which is a pain). I had thought that the round
bracket tags were stripped out as well when I tried it out previously
but I must be mistaken. I wonder if that is a change or if I just
missed it before.


--
Karen/hypatia <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>
New? Check <a href="http://www.lspace.org" target="_blank">http://www.lspace.org</a>
Confused? Mail the Clue Fairies at <a href="mailto:afp-help&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">afp-help&#64;lspace.org</a>
Discworld Convention 2006, August 18-21, <a href="http://www.dwcon.org" target="_blank">http://www.dwcon.org</a>

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#86: Re: [M] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 04:12:15 by Stacie Hanes

Leo Breebaart wrote:
&gt; &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; writes:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Thomas Zahr wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; OTGH we do seem to be just below the threshold of a new
&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;temple&quot; or similar centred around &quot;Stacie-dom&quot; [1] and all
&gt;&gt;&gt; variations thereof.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Don't think that Stacie hasn't noticed. Stacie can't deny
&gt;&gt; enjoying the attention, to a point, [...] I am *not* sure how
&gt;&gt; that happened.

&gt; Anyways, if you are yourself getting a bit bored with being the
&gt; reigning afp alpha

Well, when you put it like that.... ;-)

But there have been two thresholds. One at which I still enjoy it, but feel
that it might be intruding on others' enjoyment of the group, and a slightly
higher threshold at which I squirma bit myself.

I've let some slide by without comment, perhaps I need to adjust the filters
to a lower setting.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#87: Re: [M] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 04:13:56 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:MPG.1ee7dd12ec26116e989c4b&#64;cenote.gkhs.net" target="_blank">MPG.1ee7dd12ec26116e989c4b&#64;cenote.gkhs.net</a>, Eric Jarvis at
<a href="mailto:usenet&#64;ericjarvis.co.uk" target="_blank">usenet&#64;ericjarvis.co.uk</a> wrote on 31/05/2006 10:05 AM:

&gt; Thomas Zahr <a href="mailto:ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de" target="_blank">ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de</a> wrote in
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:Xns97D4A907439F3ThomasZahrfreenetde&#64;ID-179574.user.uni-berlin.de" target="_blank">Xns97D4A907439F3ThomasZahrfreenetde&#64;ID-179574.user.uni-berlin.de</a>&gt;:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; So we have to ask ourselves, ok don't have to, but at least
&gt;&gt; could, if we could up the content, and move off &quot;stacie-dom&quot;,
&gt;&gt; slightly.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; A very simple ground rule is this. It's OK to include a certain amount of
&gt; flirting in a post that exists for other reasons, if the sole reason for
&gt; the post is to flirt then it should probably either be an email or not
&gt; exist. Unless, of course, if it's funny.

If it isn't funny, it isn't flirting.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#88: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 04:15:38 by Kar98

On 2006-05-31 19:52:41 -0500, &quot;Steve Rogers&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:steve&#64;soapietrekkers.demon.co.uk" target="_blank">steve&#64;soapietrekkers.demon.co.uk</a>&gt; said:

&gt; be aware that there may be little ears about

Then it's their parents' responsibilty to keep the owners of said ears
away from me :-)

--
The short answer is &quot;Yes.&quot; The long answer is &quot;No.&quot;

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#89: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 04:31:11 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:1149036206.888463.44980&#64;i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1149036206.888463.44980&#64;i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com</a>, treesy at
<a href="mailto:treesy2&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">treesy2&#64;hotmail.com</a> wrote on 30/05/2006 5:43 PM:

&gt; 1. Introduction.
&gt; Hi, I'm Michael Trees. I'm 17 and a (obviously) big fan of Pratchett's
&gt; works (hands around some chocolates to foster good favour). I live on
&gt; the north coast of NSW in Australia. I've been lurking here for a fair
&gt; while, and finally got the guts to start my own topic.

1. Welcome! You probably know the stuff about cats, alligators and
chocolate.
&gt;
&gt; 2. Rant
&gt; The main thing that spurned me to write this is our public school
&gt; censors. Their job is to block innapropriate sites from school networks
&gt; in schools (which I agree with), however, I have cause to think that
&gt; they may be a little heavy handed.
&gt;
&gt; Why, because I recently attempted to log on to afp from school, only to
&gt; find that it had been blocked as an &quot;adult-sex group&quot;. This, naturally,
&gt; has caused much confusion on my part, as I'd been following afp from
&gt; school for over a year before this.

That's... amusing. I wonder if any of the censors have read the group at
all, or any Pratchett, or indeed anything else.
&gt;
&gt; I will conclude my two sections now with hello, and Aaargh.

Hello, and aaargh indeed.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#90: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 04:39:26 by Stacie Hanes

Karen wrote:
&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1149108586.253282.256650&#64;u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1149108586.253282.256650&#64;u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
&gt; CCA &lt;<a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; writes
&gt;&gt; Anastasia wrote:

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [2] but in a certain light Stacie seems to have become the sex
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; dream of choice hereabouts
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Honestly, I am *not* sure how that happened.
&gt;
&gt; Well engaging in banter about belly buttons with photographs, sexual
&gt; preferences, clothing preferences etc is all it takes sometimes

Well, people seemed to be having fun. I was having fun.

That I'm not the only one taking part isn't a defense, but but it is a fact.
Those are subjects about which I enjoy discussion, for which I don't think
an apology is completely appropriate.

But it's reached a point where I don't think as many people are having fun,
so I've wanted to dial it back a notch.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

Report this message

#91: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 04:56:22 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:lPidnRl-iegk2ODZnZ2dnUVZ8tOdnZ2d&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">lPidnRl-iegk2ODZnZ2dnUVZ8tOdnZ2d&#64;bt.com</a>, Richard Heathfield at
<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a> wrote on 31/05/2006 12:29 AM:

&gt; Arthur Hagen said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; treesy &lt;<a href="mailto:treesy2&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">treesy2&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Why, because I recently attempted to log on to afp from school, only
&gt;&gt;&gt; to find that it had been blocked as an &quot;adult-sex group&quot;. This,
&gt;&gt;&gt; naturally, has caused much confusion on my part, as I'd been
&gt;&gt;&gt; following afp from school for over a year before this.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; It's certainly a group containing adult content, but not worse than that
&gt;&gt; we have fundie regulars here, who cope with the occasional innuendo or
&gt;&gt; talk about sex.
&gt;
&gt; We also have at least one regular here who does not consider himself a
&gt; &quot;fundie&quot;, who would love to be able to allow his Pratchett-reading children
&gt; to read afp, but can't because the level of so-called &quot;adult&quot; talk is way
&gt; too high.
&gt;
&gt; You might think &quot;adults&quot; would be clever enough to find topics of discussion
&gt; that are suitable for younger Pratchett fans to join in, or at least read,
&gt; without (in some cases) blushing or (in other cases, perhaps) having to
&gt; hide the screen from their mothers.
&gt;
&gt; But you'd be wrong.

I believe you've said that your oldest is fifteen, and your others not too
far behind? Some afpers are not much older than that. Do you also choose the
books that your children are allowed to read? An ex-colleague of mine told
me once, very distressed, that he had been going through his teenage son's
things &quot;as one does&quot;, and to his horror had found amongst the young man's
shirts some letters from a girl; on reading them, he was further horrified
by their content. He had, of course, Spoken Harshly to his son and the boy
was now suitably penitent, but he couldn't get over the way that his son had
betrayed him, and was also worried about the depraved path his son had
chosen to follow, however briefly.

I like the guy (there's more to someone's personality than their ideas
on child-rearing) and I knew I was going to have to continue working with
him for years to come, so I did manage to stay civil - but it was difficult.
It seems to me that it was the son's fundamental rights as a human that had
been betrayed in several important ways, not the father's trust in his son.
One part of those rights is his right to choose his own reading material,
friends, lifestyle and pastimes.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#92: Re: was semi(R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 05:08:44 by treesy2

Karen a =E9crit :

&gt; You may find you need to keep moving between countries, it depends on
&gt; how they track access etc and how they use the proxies. Had they blocked
&gt; all alt* groups?

No, I tried a few other alt. sites (alt.books.pratchett, etc) and they
worked fine.

&gt; (and you do know that Usenet was invented as the ultimate displacement
&gt; activity - right?)

Why else would I be here....

treesy.

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#93: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 06:01:38 by treesy2

treesy wrote:
&gt;
&gt; As an update, my situation has been resolved. While they blocked afp on
&gt; groups.google.com, they failed to block it on groups.google.fr so I'm
&gt; in the clear.

Sorry, for correction, it was .au that was blocked.

Report this message

#94: Re: [M] was: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 07:12:21 by April Goodwin-Smith

&quot;Richard Heathfield&quot; wrote ...
&gt; CCA said:
&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; You might think &quot;adults&quot; would be clever enough to find topics of
&gt;&gt;&gt; discussion that are suitable for younger Pratchett fans to join in,
&gt;&gt; But it is primarily a newsgroup for adults,
&gt; Surely it is primarily a newsgroup for Terry Pratchett fans. He has
&gt; written several excellent stories for children.
&gt;

It is primarily a newsgroup for people who want to post here.

I will not be bullied by your prudery thinly masked as concern
for the sensibilities of the more tender members of your family.

If this newsgroup offends you, then read one that does not.

April.

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#95: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 08:55:58 by elzystar

treesy wrote:
&gt; treesy a =E9crit :
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Why, because I recently attempted to log on to afp from school, only to
&gt; &gt; find that it had been blocked as an &quot;adult-sex group&quot;. This, naturally,
&gt; &gt; has caused much confusion on my part, as I'd been following afp from
&gt; &gt; school for over a year before this.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; I will conclude my two sections now with hello, and Aaargh.
&gt;
&gt; As an update, my situation has been resolved. While they blocked afp on
&gt; groups.google.com, they failed to block it on groups.google.fr so I'm
&gt; in the clear.
&gt;
&gt; thanks for the warm welcome, and I hope I got the tag right.
&gt;
&gt; treesy.

Hey - I'm also new, and Aussie. You may all call me Mousie. ^___^

I had a lot of trouble with the censors at school last year, they had a
thing against hotmail and msn... they also blocked Google Images, and
probably Google Groups. Like you, we got around this by accessing
international sites... they do catch up eventually, and realise what
you're doing. Then it's just a matter of finding another hole in the
net. :)

Let's face it - school censors suck. Ours used to block the local
counsil website on account of: 'gay porn'. Now, I've been on that site
before... and it sure wasn't that exciting....

Is there a Death of Censors? If not, there bloody well should be!

Cheers!
~ Mousie

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#96: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 08:58:59 by Hendrik Schober

Thomas Zahr &lt;<a href="mailto:ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de" target="_blank">ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; [...]
&gt; On the positive side, traffic here is *way* up.

Why's that /good/?

Schobi
(with -- nervously looking at his watch -- 47 more
messages to read)

--
<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a> is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

&quot;The sarcasm is mightier than the sword.&quot;
Eric Jarvis

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#97: Re: [M] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 09:00:11 by Hendrik Schober

René &lt;<a href="mailto:Kar98&#64;The-Coalition.US" target="_blank">Kar98&#64;The-Coalition.US</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; On 2006-05-31 16:22:48 -0500, &quot;Hendrik Schober&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a>&gt; said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Define funny.
&gt;
&gt; Funny is, everybody else laughs, but the German wants a definition.

If you must refer to me as The German, then please
capitalize the article. Thank you.

Schobi

--
<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a> is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

&quot;The sarcasm is mightier than the sword.&quot;
Eric Jarvis

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#98: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 09:04:16 by Eric Jarvis

Arthur Hagen <a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a> wrote in
&lt;e5lagv$9ch$<a href="mailto:1&#64;tree.broomstick.com" target="_blank">1&#64;tree.broomstick.com</a>&gt;:
&gt; Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Surely it is primarily a newsgroup for Terry Pratchett fans. He has
&gt; &gt; written several excellent stories for children.
&gt;
&gt; And several more for adults. Should one limit oneself to the children's
&gt; level because he's also written children's books?
&gt;

No. However we should try to pitch the tenor of the group somewhere close
to the tenor of the books. That means being aware of where the gutter is
and commenting subtly on its contents, without actually diving in for a
swim.

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
&quot;live fast, die only if strictly necessary&quot;

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#99: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 09:08:44 by Hendrik Schober

Lesley Weston &lt;<a href="mailto:brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; [...] An ex-colleague of mine told
&gt; me once, very distressed, that he had been going through his teenage son's
&gt; things &quot;as one does&quot;, and to his horror had found amongst the young man's
&gt; shirts some letters from a girl; on reading them, he was further horrified
&gt; by their content. He had, of course, Spoken Harshly to his son and the boy
&gt; was now suitably penitent, but he couldn't get over the way that his son had
&gt; betrayed him, and was also worried about the depraved path his son had
&gt; chosen to follow, however briefly.
&gt;
&gt; I like the guy (there's more to someone's personality than their ideas
&gt; on child-rearing) and I knew I was going to have to continue working with
&gt; him for years to come, so I did manage to stay civil - but it was difficult.
&gt; It seems to me that it was the son's fundamental rights as a human that had
&gt; been betrayed in several important ways, not the father's trust in his son.
&gt; One part of those rights is his right to choose his own reading material,
&gt; friends, lifestyle and pastimes.

&lt;signs the declaration&gt;

Schobi

--
<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a> is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

&quot;The sarcasm is mightier than the sword.&quot;
Eric Jarvis

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#100: Re: was semi(R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 09:12:47 by Eric Jarvis

treesy <a href="mailto:treesy2&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">treesy2&#64;hotmail.com</a> wrote in
&lt;<a href="mailto:1149131324.614633.134410&#64;g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1149131324.614633.134410&#64;g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;:
&gt;
&gt; Karen a écrit :
&gt;
&gt; &gt; You may find you need to keep moving between countries, it depends on
&gt; &gt; how they track access etc and how they use the proxies. Had they blocked
&gt; &gt; all alt* groups?
&gt;
&gt; No, I tried a few other alt. sites (alt.books.pratchett, etc) and they
&gt; worked fine.
&gt;
&gt; &gt; (and you do know that Usenet was invented as the ultimate displacement
&gt; &gt; activity - right?)
&gt;
&gt; Why else would I be here....
&gt;

Officially I would expect you to be here in order to research a
forthcoming essay on a tenuously relevant subject. Possibly you might also
be learning how to use newsgroups effectively by taking part in
discussions in a non-threatening and helpful newsgroup with many very
experienced regulars.

Don't settle for being allowed to access afp, you should be aiming to get
course credits for it. :)

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
&quot;live fast, die only if strictly necessary&quot;

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#101: Re: [M] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 09:14:29 by Eric Jarvis

Lesley Weston <a href="mailto:brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk</a> wrote in
&lt;C0A39B9F.486C5%<a href="mailto:brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt;:
&gt; in article <a href="mailto:MPG.1ee7dd12ec26116e989c4b&#64;cenote.gkhs.net" target="_blank">MPG.1ee7dd12ec26116e989c4b&#64;cenote.gkhs.net</a>, Eric Jarvis at
&gt; <a href="mailto:usenet&#64;ericjarvis.co.uk" target="_blank">usenet&#64;ericjarvis.co.uk</a> wrote on 31/05/2006 10:05 AM:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Thomas Zahr <a href="mailto:ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de" target="_blank">ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de</a> wrote in
&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:Xns97D4A907439F3ThomasZahrfreenetde&#64;ID-179574.user.uni-berlin.de" target="_blank">Xns97D4A907439F3ThomasZahrfreenetde&#64;ID-179574.user.uni-berlin.de</a>&gt;:
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; So we have to ask ourselves, ok don't have to, but at least
&gt; &gt;&gt; could, if we could up the content, and move off &quot;stacie-dom&quot;,
&gt; &gt;&gt; slightly.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; A very simple ground rule is this. It's OK to include a certain amount of
&gt; &gt; flirting in a post that exists for other reasons, if the sole reason for
&gt; &gt; the post is to flirt then it should probably either be an email or not
&gt; &gt; exist. Unless, of course, if it's funny.
&gt;
&gt; If it isn't funny, it isn't flirting.
&gt;

Personally I concur, however I'm pretty sure that it isn't something
universally agreed on.

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
&quot;live fast, die only if strictly necessary&quot;

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#102: Re: semi- [I] Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 09:35:06 by Orjan Westin

treesy wrote:
&gt;
&gt; As an update, my situation has been resolved. While they blocked afp
&gt; on groups.google.com, they failed to block it on groups.google.fr so
&gt; I'm in the clear.

For the time being, at least, until they block that too.

However, it's highly unlikely they'll block www.google.com, and you can
access the groups through a directory rather than a subdomain.
<a href="http://www.google.com/groups/" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/groups/</a> should still work for you.

Mind you, when I was firewalled, I read afp through xasa.com, since I
preferred their presentation, and went to google only when I wanted to
post something. I could never figure out how to post through Xasa, as
it's all in Spanish.

&gt; thanks for the warm welcome, and I hope I got the tag right.

Not quite, but full marks for effort!

Orjan
--
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
Fiction, Thoughts and Software
<a href="http://www.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://www.cunobaros.com/</a>

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#103: Re: [M] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 09:36:12 by SeekUp

&quot;René&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:Kar98&#64;The-Coalition.US" target="_blank">Kar98&#64;The-Coalition.US</a>&gt; wrote
&gt;
&gt; Funny is, everybody else laughs, but the German wants a definition.
&gt;

Ok, *that* was funny!

Report this message

#104: Re: was semi(R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 10:19:06 by treesy2

Eric Jarvis wrote:

&gt; &gt; &gt; (and you do know that Usenet was invented as the ultimate displacement
&gt; &gt; &gt; activity - right?)
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Why else would I be here....
&gt; &gt;
&gt;
&gt; Officially I would expect you to be here in order to research a
&gt; forthcoming essay on a tenuously relevant subject. Possibly you might also
&gt; be learning how to use newsgroups effectively by taking part in
&gt; discussions in a non-threatening and helpful newsgroup with many very
&gt; experienced regulars.
&gt;
&gt; Don't settle for being allowed to access afp, you should be aiming to get
&gt; course credits for it. :)
&gt;

And of course I read it to savour the witty banter of it's
constituents. even when the threads degenerate into shouting matches,
it then reminds me of the Australian government's &quot;question time&quot; one
of my all time favourite comedy programs. as for course credit, maybe
not, but I'm hoping to increase my knowledge of AFPsychology.

treesy.

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#105: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 10:57:45 by Brenda

Arthur Hagen said:

&gt; Should one limit oneself to the children's
&gt; level because he's also written children's books?

You make it sound like children are a separate species. They're not. And you
make it sound like scatology, lavatory humour and nudge nudge wink wink
references are more &quot;advanced&quot; than this mythical &quot;children's level&quot; that
you speak of. They're not.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#106: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 10:58:28 by Brian Howlett

On 31 May, Orjan Westin wrote:

[snip]

&gt; Being openly and blatantly female on the Internet is in some cases all it
&gt; takes.
&gt;
Of course, not everyone who is &quot;openly and blatantly female on the
Internet&quot; is /actually/ female...
--
Brian Howlett - Email to From: address deleted unseen
------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
&quot;A man with a briefcase can steal more money than any man with a gun&quot;
- Don Henley

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#107: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 11:00:53 by Thomas Zahr

Lesley Weston posted:

&gt; in article
&gt; <a href="mailto:Xns97D4B60ECE797ThomasZahrfreenetde&#64;ID-179574.user.uni-berli" target="_blank">Xns97D4B60ECE797ThomasZahrfreenetde&#64;ID-179574.user.uni-berli</a>
&gt; n.de, Thomas Zahr at <a href="mailto:ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de" target="_blank">ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de</a> wrote on
&gt; 31/05/2006 8:53 AM:

....

&gt;&gt; On the positive side, traffic here is *way* up.

&gt; That may or may not be a Good Thing; there are only 24
&gt; hours in a day...

There *was* a discussion earlier in the year bemoaning that
traffic was down.

Personally I like a good mixture, I actually sort the threads
by posts, starting with the shorter ones (especially if, like
now, I have a heavy backlog (1200 + posts))

Anyway, the start of this thread was Richards contention that
the adult content hereabouts meant that he could not let his
kids (who *are* Pratchett fans) read afp.

--
Ciao

Thomas =:-)
&lt;out of sig error&gt;

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#108: Re: [M] was: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 11:03:47 by Brenda

April Goodwin-Smith said:

&gt; &quot;Richard Heathfield&quot; wrote ...
&gt;&gt; CCA said:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; You might think &quot;adults&quot; would be clever enough to find topics of
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; discussion that are suitable for younger Pratchett fans to join in,
&gt;&gt;&gt; But it is primarily a newsgroup for adults,
&gt;&gt; Surely it is primarily a newsgroup for Terry Pratchett fans. He has
&gt;&gt; written several excellent stories for children.
&gt;
&gt; It is primarily a newsgroup for people who want to post here.

So you would have no objection, then, to spam attacks on this group? After
all, spammers wouldn't post here if they didn't want to, so are you saying
that you'd be in favour of this group being heavily and regularly spammed?
I think you value the afp community more highly than that.

&gt; I will not be bullied by your prudery thinly masked as concern
&gt; for the sensibilities of the more tender members of your family.

I'm not trying to bully you. I'm trying to discuss the subject under
discussion. If you have a problem with that, then you don't really believe
what you said about this being &quot;a newsgroup for people who want to post
here&quot;.

&gt; If this newsgroup offends you, then read one that does not.

Ah, so if I'm reading the subtext properly here, this newsgroup is /really/
for &quot;people who want to post here, provided they do not disagree with April
Goodwin-Smith&quot;, right?

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#109: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 11:11:30 by Brenda

Lesley Weston said:

&gt; I believe you've said that your oldest is fifteen, and your others not too
&gt; far behind?

Sure.

&gt; Some afpers are not much older than that. Do you also choose
&gt; the books that your children are allowed to read?

No, they're bright enough to choose good books. But it would be
irresponsible of me to allow them unrestricted Internet/Usenet access, not
because they would seek out unsuitable material, but because it's amazing
what you can stumble across by accident. (A friend of mine recently tried
to buy a plane ticket online, with his smiling happy wife looking on, and
made the mistake of guessing the URL. He got most of it right, but typed
..com instead of .co.uk and ended up at a site where various seamstresses
advertised their wares. Oops.)

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#110: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 11:12:53 by Brenda

Eric Jarvis said:

&gt; Arthur Hagen <a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a> wrote in
&gt; &lt;e5lagv$9ch$<a href="mailto:1&#64;tree.broomstick.com" target="_blank">1&#64;tree.broomstick.com</a>&gt;:
&gt;&gt; Should one limit oneself to the children's
&gt;&gt; level because he's also written children's books?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; No. However we should try to pitch the tenor of the group somewhere close
&gt; to the tenor of the books. That means being aware of where the gutter is
&gt; and commenting subtly on its contents, without actually diving in for a
&gt; swim.

&lt;aol&gt;Well said.&lt;/aol&gt;

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#111: Re: [I] Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 11:16:00 by Orjan Westin

Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; Lesley Weston said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I believe you've said that your oldest is fifteen, and your others
&gt;&gt; not too far behind?
&gt;
&gt; Sure.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Some afpers are not much older than that. Do you also choose
&gt;&gt; the books that your children are allowed to read?
&gt;
&gt; No, they're bright enough to choose good books. But it would be
&gt; irresponsible of me to allow them unrestricted Internet/Usenet
&gt; access, not because they would seek out unsuitable material, but
&gt; because it's amazing what you can stumble across by accident.

Well, if you accidentally type alt.gherkins.spank.spank.spank instead of
alt.fan.pratchett I'd suspect it wasn't quite that accidental.

&quot;Accidental Porn&quot; would be a great name for a rock band, by the way.

But you're a selfconfessed geek, right? Why not set up a little local
newsserver and give it a feed for a few, select groups? Then you can
let your kids access that server only from their Windows box.

Orjan
--
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
Fiction, Thoughts and Software
<a href="http://www.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://www.cunobaros.com/</a>

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#112: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 11:24:16 by Karen

In article &lt;yrsfg.7563$<a href="mailto:921.6249&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">921.6249&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; writes
&gt;Karen wrote:
&gt;&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1149108586.253282.256650&#64;u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1149108586.253282.256650&#64;u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
&gt;&gt; CCA &lt;<a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; writes
&gt;&gt;&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [2] but in a certain light Stacie seems to have become the sex
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; dream of choice hereabouts
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Honestly, I am *not* sure how that happened.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Well engaging in banter about belly buttons with photographs, sexual
&gt;&gt; preferences, clothing preferences etc is all it takes sometimes
&gt;
&gt;Well, people seemed to be having fun. I was having fun.

You asked the question above - I'm simply stating where it gets easily
'down tracked'.

&gt;
&gt;That I'm not the only one taking part isn't a defense, but but it is a fact.

True and its not like most of the other participants are new bugs who
can't tell the difference.

&gt;Those are subjects about which I enjoy discussion, for which I don't think
&gt;an apology is completely appropriate.
&gt;
&gt;But it's reached a point where I don't think as many people are having fun,
&gt;so I've wanted to dial it back a notch.
&gt;

I haven't seen anyone ask you for apologies, I've seen people warn of
the effects of what is happening, how it arises and the public nature of
what is posted (something which is incredibly easy to forget at times
when bantering with people we feel we know).

See it less as a 'request' and more as advice which is honestly in your
interest more than anyone else's - your name and identity are attached
to those posts for anyone now or in the future to access.


--
Karen/hypatia <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>
New? Check <a href="http://www.lspace.org" target="_blank">http://www.lspace.org</a>
Confused? Mail the Clue Fairies at <a href="mailto:afp-help&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">afp-help&#64;lspace.org</a>
Discworld Convention 2006, August 18-21, <a href="http://www.dwcon.org" target="_blank">http://www.dwcon.org</a>

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#113: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 11:31:21 by Brian Howlett

On 1 Jun, Arthur Hagen wrote:

&gt; Rocky Frisco &lt;<a href="mailto:rocknatural&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">rocknatural&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; And then there's Scunthorpe.
&gt;
&gt; Don't forget Washita (over in your neighborhood, unless I'm mistaken) :-)
&gt;
Don't forget Matsushita...
--
Brian Howlett - Email to From: address deleted unseen
------------------------------------------------------------ ---
Every 4 seconds a woman has a baby. Our problem is to find this
woman and stop her.

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#114: Re: [I] Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 11:33:42 by Brenda

Orjan Westin said:

&gt; But you're a selfconfessed geek, right?

Actually, no. I can't stand the word &quot;geek&quot;, for a start. It puts me in mind
of the kind of people who use gif files even when they don't need animated
images. (&quot;Beware of geeks bearing gifs.&quot;)

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#115: [I]Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 12:19:03 by Karen

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:iNydnbUqMKHeKePZRVnyiw&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">iNydnbUqMKHeKePZRVnyiw&#64;bt.com</a>&gt;, Richard Heathfield
&lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; writes
&gt;Orjan Westin said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; But you're a selfconfessed geek, right?
&gt;
&gt;Actually, no. I can't stand the word &quot;geek&quot;, for a start. It puts me in mind
&gt;of the kind of people who use gif files even when they don't need animated
&gt;images. (&quot;Beware of geeks bearing gifs.&quot;)
&gt;



Probably says a lot about the recent threads that my pun defenders had
switched off but that has to be the most appalling pun I've seen here in
months.

There is a fine box you know!


--
Karen/hypatia <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>
New? Check <a href="http://www.lspace.org" target="_blank">http://www.lspace.org</a>
Confused? Mail the Clue Fairies at <a href="mailto:afp-help&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">afp-help&#64;lspace.org</a>
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#116: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 12:52:06 by sphira9343

Anastasia wrote:

&gt; That I'm not the only one taking part isn't a defense, but but it is a fact.
&gt; Those are subjects about which I enjoy discussion, for which I don't think
&gt; an apology is completely appropriate.

I agree with you, and I certainly don't think you need to apologise for
anything. And no, you're certainly not the only one taking part, far
from it.

[To everyone else]
I have noticed, in this thread, one or two people hinting along the
lines of &quot;This recent rise in flirting-style posts is all to do with
Stacie/Anastasia&quot;, and I really don't think it's helping anyone when we
point fingers and say &quot;It's all her fault.&quot; Yes, people do flirt with
her, but people flirt with Peachy too, and Orjan (eg, the 'big sword'
comments, of which I'm just as guilty as anyone), and with Rocky, and
sometimes me, and with others too.
Basically, I don't want to see Stacie, or anyone else, made into any
sort of a scapegoat for anything. That sort of stuff is not only
unfair, but fosters resentment between posters that no-one here should
have to deal with.

And as I've mentioned before, surely it's better to have a bit of fun
sometimes, than just get bogged down in deep discussion that are likely
to go right over everyone's heads.
CCA

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#117: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 13:11:25 by sphira9343

Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; A friend of mine recently tried
&gt; to buy a plane ticket online, with his smiling happy wife looking on, and
&gt; made the mistake of guessing the URL. He got most of it right, but typed
&gt; .com instead of .co.uk and ended up at a site where various seamstresses
&gt; advertised their wares. Oops.

I remember typing in the URL for Friends Reunited, and accidentally
substituting the 's' for a 'z'. (Before anyone rushes to try this, it
was a long time ago and might not have the same effect now) I got a
general 'pr0n, and plenty of it!' impression in the nano-second before
I clicked it off.

CCA

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#118: Re: [I] Varieties

Posted on 2006-06-01 13:28:40 by Flesh-eating Dragon

Rocky Frisco wrote:

&gt; Reminds me of the one about the young lady's question: &quot;Is anything worn under
&gt; your kilt?&quot;
&gt;
&gt; &quot;Nay, lassie, it's as good as ever!&quot;

I don't remember the exact wording, but where I know that joke from is here:

<a href="http://www.mavmuse.com/pdfs/info/68.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.mavmuse.com/pdfs/info/68.pdf</a>

Written by a fellow Pratchett fan, former school teacher, and friend.

Adrian.

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#119: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 13:56:16 by naomi

CCA wrote:
&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt; Thomas Zahr wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; OTGH we do seem to be just below the threshold of a new
&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;temple&quot; or similar centred around &quot;Stacie-dom&quot; [1] and all
&gt;&gt;&gt; variations thereof.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Don't think that Stacie hasn't noticed. Stacie can't deny enjoying the
&gt;&gt; attention, to a point, but Stacie has also started several serious threads
&gt;&gt; in the past week or so in an effort to change the subject.
&gt;
&gt; I felt the same a few years ago, when the amount of 'CCA' and 'things
&gt; to do with gold or chocolate' threads had got to the point where I got
&gt; the impression that some people were starting to resent me being around
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; So we have to ask ourselves, ok don't have to, but at least
&gt;&gt;&gt; could, if we could up the content, and move off &quot;stacie-dom&quot;,
&gt;&gt;&gt; slightly.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Yes, please, just a bit.
&gt;
&gt; I'd been wondering if it was sometimes making you feel a mite
&gt; uncomfortable.
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; [2] but in a certain light Stacie seems to have become the sex
&gt;&gt;&gt; dream of choice hereabouts
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Honestly, I am *not* sure how that happened. (I gotta share that I
&gt;&gt; originally typoed &quot;sore&quot; instead of sure.) [3]
&gt;
&gt; I think it's one of those things that just builds up and up, often
&gt; without very much encouragement from the poster herself (or himself,
&gt; although I can't remember the same happening to a male poster here.)
&gt; CCA
&gt;

Oh,Damn. I just started a chocolate thread. I hadn't read this yet
sorry.

n

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#120: Re: [I]Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 13:59:17 by Brenda

Karen said:

&gt; There is a fine box you know!

Yes, it's a wonderful box. Shame about that little slot in the top - I'd get
that fixed if I were you.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#121: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 14:00:53 by naomi

Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; CCA said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; You might think &quot;adults&quot; would be clever enough to find topics of
&gt;&gt;&gt; discussion that are suitable for younger Pratchett fans to join in, or at
&gt;&gt;&gt; least read, without (in some cases) blushing or (in other cases, perhaps)
&gt;&gt;&gt; having to hide the screen from their mothers.
&gt;&gt;&gt; But you'd be wrong.
&gt;&gt; But it is primarily a newsgroup for adults,
&gt;
&gt; Surely it is primarily a newsgroup for Terry Pratchett fans. He has written
&gt; several excellent stories for children.
&gt;

Maybe a separate kid's afp? I have a couple of fans in my family too.

n

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#122: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 14:11:23 by Orjan Westin

CCA wrote:
&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; That I'm not the only one taking part isn't a defense, but but it is
&gt;&gt; a fact. Those are subjects about which I enjoy discussion, for which
&gt;&gt; I don't think an apology is completely appropriate.
&gt;
&gt; I agree with you, and I certainly don't think you need to apologise
&gt; for anything. And no, you're certainly not the only one taking part,
&gt; far from it.
&gt;
&gt; [To everyone else]
&gt; I have noticed, in this thread, one or two people hinting along the
&gt; lines of &quot;This recent rise in flirting-style posts is all to do with
&gt; Stacie/Anastasia&quot;, and I really don't think it's helping anyone when
&gt; we point fingers and say &quot;It's all her fault.&quot;

Smacks slightly of &quot;But she asked for it, wearing a miniskirt&quot; to me,
yes.

But... Well, it's always hard to draw a line and say &quot;this is too much
encouragement&quot;. Especially since some people need very little, and some
need a lot, and we all have different levels of tolerance. And the foci
of flirtation is easily seen as the perpetrator, even when the other
people involved do most of the posting.

It's hard to tell your friends to stop, and every person is responsible
for his or her posts, so Stacie can't be held responsible for the people
writing the flirting posts. One can refrain from replying to them
publicly, though, as any successful attempt at attentiongrabbing is
likely to feed more. If it was a &quot;good&quot; or funny piece of flirtation,
e-mail is an option.

Thing is, it's impossible to point at a specific post or thread and say
&quot;that's too much&quot;. It's the cumulative effect which annoys people. And
after a while, the jokes get increasingly crude and desperate, which
helps fan the annoyance. But it's not due to a single person, or single
post.

In the words of Stan in South Park, I think we learned a lesson here
today. Think before you post, and ask yourself if it's something of
interest or amusement to a reasonable number of people on the froup.
Remember that you are responsible for your words, and that they'll
remain archived and accessible to anyone.

We've been here before, many times, and no doubt we'll be here again.
Some of the flirting/teasing posts I have been funny and clever, and
some of them have made me cringe in embarrassement. Some people have
come across as desperate for female approval, some have proved
themselves to be witty, some have voiced their concerns, and some have,
without any puns intended, come across as lacking restraint.

No doubt, some will post in protest, saying it was only a bit of
harmless fun and if we don't like it we can just avoid those threads.
That usually happens. And some of us will explain the invasive nature
of these memes, and point to earlier examples.

If we're lucky, we can avoid an all-out finger-pointing [M]orass. I
hope we do.

If someone is warming up their google-fu to prove what a hypocrite I am,
don't bother. I know I've participated, and no doubt some, or many, of
my posts touching on those subjects would have been better left unsent.
A lot of them have been, actually. Often, I'll get an idea of a vaguely
amusing reply when I read, but most of those posts never gets past the
first draft. You should probably be grateful for that. But I tend to
look at the amusement value first, and if I think it wouldn't amuse
anyone, or only the person I'm replying to, I don't send it. I admit
that my assessment may be too generous. I live and learn, I hope.

I, too, have a share in the collective guilt. That does not, I hope,
invalidate my words in this post.

&gt; Yes, people do flirt
&gt; with her, but people flirt with Peachy too, and Orjan

Me? Oh. Thick as two short planks, me. Hit me over the head with a
rock, that'd probably work better. Come to think of it, that's more or
less what's happened to me every time I've entered a relationship...

&gt; And as I've mentioned before, surely it's better to have a bit of fun
&gt; sometimes, than just get bogged down in deep discussion that are
&gt; likely to go right over everyone's heads.

I think they go over our heads only because we're stuck in the gutter.
Maybe we should try to rise above that for a while. Or at least try to
look at the stars, as we're lying there.

Orjan
--
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
Fiction, Thoughts and Software
<a href="http://www.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://www.cunobaros.com/</a>

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#123: Re: [I] Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 14:13:35 by alec

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:4e7pivF1d80heU1&#64;individual.net" target="_blank">4e7pivF1d80heU1&#64;individual.net</a>&gt;, <a href="mailto:nospam&#64;cunobaros.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;cunobaros.com</a>
says...
&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; &gt; Lesley Weston said:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; I believe you've said that your oldest is fifteen, and your others
&gt; &gt;&gt; not too far behind?
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Sure.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Some afpers are not much older than that. Do you also choose
&gt; &gt;&gt; the books that your children are allowed to read?
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; No, they're bright enough to choose good books. But it would be
&gt; &gt; irresponsible of me to allow them unrestricted Internet/Usenet
&gt; &gt; access, not because they would seek out unsuitable material, but
&gt; &gt; because it's amazing what you can stumble across by accident.
&gt;
&gt; Well, if you accidentally type alt.gherkins.spank.spank.spank instead of
&gt; alt.fan.pratchett I'd suspect it wasn't quite that accidental.

Disney used to have a portal aimed at younger users called &quot;goto.com&quot;,
though I think they closed it some time ago (it now reroutes to go2.com,
a yellow-pages lookalike). But if you typoed &quot;gpto.com&quot; - adjacent
character on the weak little finger, you ended up somewhere very
distincly X-rated with the goods on offer highly visible on the front
page.

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#124: Re: [M] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 14:14:15 by Thomas Zahr

Anastasia posted:

&gt; Thomas Zahr wrote:
....

&gt;&gt; [3] to the point that Stacie herself almost can't start a
&gt;&gt; serious thread anymore (see self esteem)

&gt; Yes I can! It just takes some fairly serious effort to keep
&gt; it that way.

Note the almost ;-)

--
Ciao

Thomas =:-)
&lt;what a waste&gt;

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#125: [M]was: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 14:56:48 by Karen

April Goodwin-Smith &lt;<a href="mailto:agoodwinsmith&#64;shaw.ca" target="_blank">agoodwinsmith&#64;shaw.ca</a>&gt; writes
&gt;&quot;Richard Heathfield&quot; wrote ...
&gt;&gt; CCA said:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; You might think &quot;adults&quot; would be clever enough to find topics of
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; discussion that are suitable for younger Pratchett fans to join in,
&gt;&gt;&gt; But it is primarily a newsgroup for adults,
&gt;&gt; Surely it is primarily a newsgroup for Terry Pratchett fans. He has
&gt;&gt; written several excellent stories for children.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;It is primarily a newsgroup for people who want to post here.

Its primarily a newsgroup for Terry Pratchett fans who want to post here
now or in times passim or in the future.

&gt;
&gt;I will not be bullied by your prudery thinly masked as concern
&gt;for the sensibilities of the more tender members of your family.

Crikey, I think you must have read that comment very differently from
me.

I'm on record many times as opposing advocates of moderation or
restrictions on 'adult' topics when its been hinted at - this an alt
group and not the place for a moderated approach. Good grief I even
started an afp-junior mail list with Hamster's help so that kids could
have their own moderated discussion forum instead on one occasion when
it came up.

But...there is a whole world of difference between moderating a group to
a PG certificate and its being a group which, incidentally, is the kind
of place in which teenagers could participate and enjoy, knowing that
some of the discussion topics might generally be considered 'adult' in
nature. Afp certainly has demonstrated of that wide spectrum appeal at
times and I'm totally with Eric on this issue.

I wouldn't have pointed my or any other teenagers at afp lately but I
wouldn't have directed adults here either. That has nothing to do with
being prudish about the innuendo threads and everything to do with the
excess of innuendo and in jokes offering precious little to interest
anyone not directly involved.
Nor would I commend teens or adults to read/join the group when its
overwhelmed by one of those particularly abusive and aggressive threads
with various adults demonstrating their perfect right to post according
to the lowest common denominator role. Playing the part of playground
thugs whose strategies seem to be selected from attacking the person,
abusive posturing and/or aggressive language, goal shifting and
dishonest argument etc whilst a few others cheer them on from the safety
of the sidelines just waiting for the punch up to start. In other words
exhibiting precisely the behaviours parents are told to discourage in
children. Neither of these situations are an inducement to any newbies
to join.

I did on the other hand, point one of them at a some of the posts in a
really insightful discussion on transexualism sharing real experiences
and personal stories when he came home having heard some weird
playground bigotry worthy of the gutter tabloids.

In fact when I think about it, in the case of my own teens I'm almost
thinking more about preserving their otherwise good opinion of afp and
afpers gained in the past in precisely that kind of discussion.


Jeez April, you understand the difference between contributing to the
group and making it a good place to be as opposed to just 'taking'
because its suits you personally with no regard to your fellow posters .
You have demonstrated that many times. You have helped visitors to meets
and then reported back to group on them to share the experience, you
have answered questions and given me feedback whenever I've asked you,
you are one of the people who welcomes new people with friendliness and
information rather than telling them 'anything goes' and letting them
fall over themselves. Its just balance, give and take.


&gt;
&gt;If this newsgroup offends you, then read one that does not.
&gt;

Yes - but that was the type of reasoning used by the Miaowers. Plus I
also reserve the right to state on this group where I see a negative
pattern building up *before* I pack my bags quietly and depart by the
back door. More than that, as someone who feels they have been a net
beneficiary over time I feel I owe it.



--
Karen/hypatia <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>
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#126: Re: [M] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 15:01:11 by Kar98

On 2006-06-01 02:00:11 -0500, &quot;Hendrik Schober&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a>&gt; said:

&gt; René &lt;<a href="mailto:Kar98&#64;The-Coalition.US" target="_blank">Kar98&#64;The-Coalition.US</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; On 2006-05-31 16:22:48 -0500, &quot;Hendrik Schober&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a>&gt; said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Define funny.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Funny is, everybody else laughs, but the German wants a definition.
&gt;
&gt; If you must refer to me as The German,

I wasn't though.


--
Do you know what the chain of command is here? It's the chain I go get
and beat you with to show you who's in ruttin' command here.

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#127: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 15:06:31 by Kar98

On 2006-06-01 07:11:23 -0500, &quot;Orjan Westin&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:nospam&#64;cunobaros.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;cunobaros.com</a>&gt; said:

&gt; CCA wrote:
&gt;&gt; [To everyone else]
&gt;&gt; I have noticed, in this thread, one or two people hinting along the
&gt;&gt; lines of &quot;This recent rise in flirting-style posts is all to do with
&gt;&gt; Stacie/Anastasia&quot;, and I really don't think it's helping anyone when
&gt;&gt; we point fingers and say &quot;It's all her fault.&quot;
&gt;
&gt; Smacks slightly of &quot;But she asked for it, wearing a miniskirt&quot; to me,
&gt; yes.

Nah, it's more like &quot;but she's the only one easily IDable as actual
female, and kinda cute&quot;. Not that there is anything wrong with that :D


--
Do you know what the chain of command is here? It's the chain I go get
and beat you with to show you who's in ruttin' command here.

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#128: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 15:08:36 by Karen

naomi &lt;<a href="mailto:kittenkat&#64;dodo.com.au" target="_blank">kittenkat&#64;dodo.com.au</a>&gt; writes
&gt;Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt; CCA said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; You might think &quot;adults&quot; would be clever enough to find topics of
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; discussion that are suitable for younger Pratchett fans to join in, or at
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; least read, without (in some cases) blushing or (in other cases, perhaps)
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; having to hide the screen from their mothers.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; But you'd be wrong.
&gt;&gt;&gt; But it is primarily a newsgroup for adults,
&gt;&gt; Surely it is primarily a newsgroup for Terry Pratchett fans. He has
&gt;&gt;written several excellent stories for children.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;Maybe a separate kid's afp? I have a couple of fans in my family too.

A few years ago I set up precisely that with help from Hamster. It was a
moderated mail list rather than a usenet group.

The problem is that children, even more than adults, want to read a lot
more than they want to write. You need an even larger critical mass of
members to generate enough posts to sustain interest.

My own solution at that time was to 'filter' sections or threads from
afp when they expressed an interest. I also found that the kids tended
to be interested more specifically in [R] and abp was in many ways more
interesting to them (although its still an alt group and as such you
need to be prepared to filter it yourself if content is a concern -
this can be time consuming). Mind you, abp is pretty quiet these days.

I've seen other children's groups hit the same issue and I don't have an
easy answer to it. Filtering alt groups for content is really something
only the parent/carer can do effectively, not least because each child
is different in what they are ready to read and understand at any
particular age.



--
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#129: Re: [I] Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 15:14:51 by naomi

Alec Cawley wrote:
al.
&gt;
&gt; Disney used to have a portal aimed at younger users called &quot;goto.com&quot;,
&gt; though I think they closed it some time ago (it now reroutes to go2.com,
&gt; a yellow-pages lookalike). But if you typoed &quot;gpto.com&quot; - adjacent
&gt; character on the weak little finger, you ended up somewhere very
&gt; distincly X-rated with the goods on offer highly visible on the front
&gt; page.

Yes. I once got a very interesting phone call from my school principal
about my daughter accessing that site from school. She was only 8 and
didn't understand why everyone was mad. My husband had a very
instructive time showing the school IT person the right way to set up
some filters. He got mad at the principal for being mad at our daughter.

n

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#130: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 15:18:05 by Arthur Hagen

Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Arthur Hagen said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Should one limit oneself to the children's
&gt;&gt; level because he's also written children's books?
&gt;
&gt; You make it sound like children are a separate species. They're not.
&gt; And you make it sound like scatology, lavatory humour and nudge nudge
&gt; wink wink references are more &quot;advanced&quot; than this mythical
&gt; &quot;children's level&quot; that you speak of. They're not.

Once you're done beating up that dummy over there, please anser me this:

1: If you disagree that children are at a different level, fine. You'll
hear no argument from me against that, as I think that children shouldn't be
sheltered.
But why then don't you want childrens subjected to what's here? If there's
different rules for them than for you, aren't *you* the one who put them on
a different level?

2: How the hell can you infer anything about what I consider more
&quot;advanced&quot; from the above? You have gone out of your way here not only to
beat up the dummy, but to collect grains to grow the straws on your own too.
Anyhow, Pratchett's books are full of &quot;scatology, lavatory humour and nudge
nudge wink wink references&quot;... The question I have is that since you
brought up the word &quot;advanced&quot; as opposed to a &quot;children's level&quot;, what do
/you/ see as &quot;advanced&quot;?

--
*Art

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#131: Re: [M] was: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 15:19:47 by Arthur Hagen

Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; April Goodwin-Smith said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I will not be bullied by your prudery thinly masked as concern
&gt;&gt; for the sensibilities of the more tender members of your family.
&gt;
&gt; I'm not trying to bully you.

True. You're not /trying/, you /are/ bullying, and not just her, but
everyone.

--
*Art

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#132: Re: [I] Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 15:39:16 by Karen

In article &lt;447ee84a$<a href="mailto:1&#64;news.comindico.com.au" target="_blank">1&#64;news.comindico.com.au</a>&gt;, naomi
&lt;<a href="mailto:kittenkat&#64;dodo.com.au" target="_blank">kittenkat&#64;dodo.com.au</a>&gt; writes
&gt;Alec Cawley wrote:
&gt;al.
&gt;&gt; Disney used to have a portal aimed at younger users called
&gt;&gt;&quot;goto.com&quot;, though I think they closed it some time ago (it now
&gt;&gt;reroutes to go2.com, a yellow-pages lookalike). But if you typoed
&gt;&gt;&quot;gpto.com&quot; - adjacent character on the weak little finger, you ended
&gt;&gt;up somewhere very distincly X-rated with the goods on offer highly
&gt;&gt;visible on the front page.
&gt;
&gt;Yes. I once got a very interesting phone call from my school principal
&gt;about my daughter accessing that site from school. She was only 8 and
&gt;didn't understand why everyone was mad. My husband had a very
&gt;instructive time showing the school IT person the right way to set up
&gt;some filters. He got mad at the principal for being mad at our daughter.


Even if she had been deliberately accessing the site I'd say his issue
would be with you first and foremost. I recall one of my kids at this
age saying one of her classmates was showing them 'horrible' sites (and
they were - designed with front pages of children's tv characters but
one click away from some fairly revolting port).

The school rapidly tweaked its filters to stop the access when the
teacher spotted what was happening in the class but the real issue to me
was that her eight year old classmate was spending several hours a day
unsupervised and online at home.


--
Karen/hypatia <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>
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#133: Re: [F] Reincarnation of the afp-junior list?

Posted on 2006-06-01 15:45:24 by Leo Breebaart

naomi &lt;<a href="mailto:kittenkat&#64;dodo.com.au" target="_blank">kittenkat&#64;dodo.com.au</a>&gt; writes:

&gt; Maybe a separate kid's afp? I have a couple of fans in my
&gt; family too.

A long time ago, there used to be an afp-junior mailing list. If
there is enough interest and one or two volunteers willing to
step up and actively get involved in running/moderating it, I'd
be perfectly happy to set one up under the lspace.org banner.

--
Leo Breebaart &lt;<a href="mailto:leo&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">leo&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt;

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#134: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 16:00:58 by Brenda

Arthur Hagen said:

&gt; 1: If you disagree that children are at a different level, fine. You'll
&gt; hear no argument from me against that, as I think that children shouldn't
&gt; be sheltered.
&gt; But why then don't you want childrens subjected to what's here?

I wouldn't want a dog subjected to some of the stuff that's posted here.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#135: Re: [M] was: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 16:02:34 by Brenda

Arthur Hagen said:

&gt; Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; April Goodwin-Smith said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I will not be bullied by your prudery thinly masked as concern
&gt;&gt;&gt; for the sensibilities of the more tender members of your family.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I'm not trying to bully you.
&gt;
&gt; True. You're not /trying/, you /are/ bullying, and not just her, but
&gt; everyone.

No, I'm just discussing the topic that came up, giving my view, just like
other people are giving theirs. You don't like my view? Fine - feel free to
argue with me if you like. But when people start resorting to name-calling,
it hints at the possibility that they're running out of arguments.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#136: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 16:16:10 by Orjan Westin

Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; Arthur Hagen said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; 1: If you disagree that children are at a different level, fine.
&gt;&gt; You'll hear no argument from me against that, as I think that
&gt;&gt; children shouldn't be sheltered.
&gt;&gt; But why then don't you want childrens subjected to what's here?
&gt;
&gt; I wouldn't want a dog subjected to some of the stuff that's posted
&gt; here.

That would be the chocolate threads, then. Unlike dogs, humans, even
human kids, do generally not get poisoned by theobromine.

Okay, so I see your point, and why you might feel compelled to give a
rather harsh answer. But while Arthur turned to you, you are condemning
parts of the group. Your prerogative, I'm sure, but it did come across
as rather hard and sweeping.

Orjan
--
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#137: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 16:24:16 by Hendrik Schober

Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Arthur Hagen said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; 1: If you disagree that children are at a different level, fine. You'll
&gt;&gt; hear no argument from me against that, as I think that children shouldn't
&gt;&gt; be sheltered.
&gt;&gt; But why then don't you want childrens subjected to what's here?
&gt;
&gt; I wouldn't want a dog subjected to some of the stuff that's posted here.

I wouldn't want a dog subjected to some of the stuff
dogs do on the street.

Schobi

--
<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a> is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

&quot;The sarcasm is mightier than the sword.&quot;
Eric Jarvis

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#138: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 16:24:17 by Brenda

Orjan Westin said:

&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt; Arthur Hagen said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; 1: If you disagree that children are at a different level, fine.
&gt;&gt;&gt; You'll hear no argument from me against that, as I think that
&gt;&gt;&gt; children shouldn't be sheltered.
&gt;&gt;&gt; But why then don't you want childrens subjected to what's here?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I wouldn't want a dog subjected to some of the stuff that's posted
&gt;&gt; here.
&gt;
&gt; That would be the chocolate threads, then. Unlike dogs, humans, even
&gt; human kids, do generally not get poisoned by theobromine.
&gt;
&gt; Okay, so I see your point, and why you might feel compelled to give a
&gt; rather harsh answer. But while Arthur turned to you, you are condemning
&gt; parts of the group. Your prerogative, I'm sure, but it did come across
&gt; as rather hard and sweeping.

Had I not very carefully inserted &quot;some of&quot; in my sentence, I would agree
that you had a point.

I'm not condemning anybody. I'm merely expressing an opinion about some of
the content posted here, and it seems that I'm not alone in this, from what
several other people have said.

I can see YET ANOTHER monster thread in the offing, can't you?

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#139: Re: [M] was: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 16:33:05 by Kar98

On 2006-06-01 09:02:34 -0500, Richard Heathfield
&lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; said:

&gt; when people start resorting to name-calling, it hints at the
&gt; possibility that they're running out of arguments.

Or that they can't possibly be bothered to engage in another poinless
bickering marathon in which either side will ignore the arguments of
the other to the mutual annoyance of both. So brumm it, you rotiferous
bridesmaid of a medium-sized gerbil :)
Yeah, I like name-calling much better.


--
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levees in New Orleans, and put the Florida alligators in the moat.
Are there any other problems you would like for me to solve?

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#140: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 16:42:54 by Hendrik Schober

Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; [...]
&gt; I'm not condemning anybody. I'm merely expressing an opinion [...]

Now where had I heard that before? &lt;g&gt;

Schobi

--
<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a> is never read
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&quot;The sarcasm is mightier than the sword.&quot;
Eric Jarvis

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#141: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 16:49:14 by Brenda

Hendrik Schober said:

&gt; Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; [...]
&gt;&gt; I'm not condemning anybody. I'm merely expressing an opinion [...]
&gt;
&gt; Now where had I heard that before? &lt;g&gt;

I have no idea. Where?

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#142: Re: [M] was: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 16:53:15 by Gid Holyoake

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:DrGdnaPBNvPVbuPZRVny2w&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">DrGdnaPBNvPVbuPZRVny2w&#64;bt.com</a>&gt;, Richard Heathfield
generously decided to share with us..

Snippetry..

&gt; No, I'm just discussing the topic that came up, giving my view, just like
&gt; other people are giving theirs. You don't like my view? Fine - feel free to
&gt; argue with me if you like. But when people start resorting to name-calling,
&gt; it hints at the possibility that they're running out of arguments.

Yeah, but you smell funny..

;-)

Gid

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#143: Re: [M] was: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 16:57:03 by Stacie Hanes

Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; April Goodwin-Smith said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; &quot;Richard Heathfield&quot; wrote ...
&gt;&gt;&gt; CCA said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; You might think &quot;adults&quot; would be clever enough to find topics
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of discussion that are suitable for younger Pratchett fans to
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; join in,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; But it is primarily a newsgroup for adults,
&gt;&gt;&gt; Surely it is primarily a newsgroup for Terry Pratchett fans. He
&gt;&gt;&gt; has written several excellent stories for children.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; It is primarily a newsgroup for people who want to post here.
&gt;
&gt; So you would have no objection, then, to spam attacks on this
&gt; group? After all, spammers wouldn't post here if they didn't want
&gt; to,

I think that's an errorneous analysis of their motivation. The individiuals
who post here &quot;want to post *here*&quot;. Spammers wnat to post everywhere, not
&quot;post here.&quot;


--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#144: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 16:57:56 by Orjan Westin

Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; Orjan Westin said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I wouldn't want a dog subjected to some of the stuff that's posted
&gt;&gt;&gt; here.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; you are
&gt;&gt; condemning parts of the group. Your prerogative, I'm sure, but it
&gt;&gt; did come across as rather hard and sweeping.
&gt;
&gt; Had I not very carefully inserted &quot;some of&quot; in my sentence, I would
&gt; agree that you had a point.

That's why I carefully inserted &quot;parts of&quot;.

&gt; I'm not condemning anybody. I'm merely expressing an opinion about
&gt; some of the content posted here, and it seems that I'm not alone in
&gt; this, from what several other people have said.

I didn't object to your sentiment, only your phrasing.

&gt; I can see YET ANOTHER monster thread in the offing, can't you?

Yes, so I'll refrain from commenting further, unless it moves on.
You're welcome to the last word, should you want it.

Orjan
--
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
Fiction, Thoughts and Software
<a href="http://www.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://www.cunobaros.com/</a>

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#145: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 17:01:16 by Brenda

Orjan Westin said:

&gt; You're welcome to the last word, should you want it.

Report this message

#146: Re: [F] Reincarnation of the afp-junior list?

Posted on 2006-06-01 17:01:22 by PeterH

It all started on Thu, 01 Jun 2006 13:45:24 +0000, when Leo Breebaart
wrote:

&gt; naomi &lt;<a href="mailto:kittenkat&#64;dodo.com.au" target="_blank">kittenkat&#64;dodo.com.au</a>&gt; writes:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Maybe a separate kid's afp? I have a couple of fans in my family too.
&gt;
&gt; A long time ago, there used to be an afp-junior mailing list. If there is
&gt; enough interest and one or two volunteers willing to step up and actively
&gt; get involved in running/moderating it, I'd be perfectly happy to set one
&gt; up under the lspace.org banner.

I'd put my hand up to be a moderator, except I'm not entirely sure that
the people who want stuff to be moderated would be happy with that idea.

The offer remains, though.


...PeterH

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#147: Re: [F] Reincarnation of the afp-junior list?

Posted on 2006-06-01 17:18:43 by Karen

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:pan.2006.06.01.15.01.22.606237&#64;yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">pan.2006.06.01.15.01.22.606237&#64;yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt;, Peter Davies
&lt;<a href="mailto:peterhjr&#64;yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">peterhjr&#64;yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt; writes
&gt;It all started on Thu, 01 Jun 2006 13:45:24 +0000, when Leo Breebaart
&gt;wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; naomi &lt;<a href="mailto:kittenkat&#64;dodo.com.au" target="_blank">kittenkat&#64;dodo.com.au</a>&gt; writes:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Maybe a separate kid's afp? I have a couple of fans in my family too.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; A long time ago, there used to be an afp-junior mailing list. If there is
&gt;&gt; enough interest and one or two volunteers willing to step up and actively
&gt;&gt; get involved in running/moderating it, I'd be perfectly happy to set one
&gt;&gt; up under the lspace.org banner.
&gt;
&gt;I'd put my hand up to be a moderator, except I'm not entirely sure that
&gt;the people who want stuff to be moderated would be happy with that idea.
&gt;
&gt;The offer remains, though.
&gt;

I'd be willing pick it up again as well aiming for a similar age range
(under 16s primarily and old enough to write a vaguely coherent email at
the lower end). However I don't know what demand there would be or how
much traffic.

Although if I were starting from scratch now, I'd be tempted to consider
a moderated web forum format as an option simply because that is a more
familiar format to most kids now. (yes I know, burn the heretic!)


--
Karen/hypatia <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>
New? Check <a href="http://www.lspace.org" target="_blank">http://www.lspace.org</a>
Confused? Mail the Clue Fairies at <a href="mailto:afp-help&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">afp-help&#64;lspace.org</a>
Discworld Convention 2006, August 18-21, <a href="http://www.dwcon.org" target="_blank">http://www.dwcon.org</a>

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#148: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 17:24:03 by geminii

On Wed, 31 May 2006 07:29:52 +0000, Richard Heathfield
&lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;You might think &quot;adults&quot; would be clever enough to find topics of discussion
&gt;that are suitable for younger Pratchett fans to join in, or at least read,
&gt;without (in some cases) blushing or (in other cases, perhaps) having to
&gt;hide the screen from their mothers.
&gt;
&gt;But you'd be wrong.

You might also think that this newsgroup was ever, at any point in its
entire history, aimed at anything else but an adult audience.

And what a fascinating theory that would be, too.


-SteveD

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#149: Re: [M] was: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 17:24:15 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; Arthur Hagen said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt; April Goodwin-Smith said:
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; I will not be bullied by your prudery thinly masked as concern
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; for the sensibilities of the more tender members of your family.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; I'm not trying to bully you.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; True. You're not /trying/, you /are/ bullying, and not just her, but
&gt; &gt; everyone.
&gt;
&gt; No, I'm just discussing the topic that came up, giving my view, just like
&gt; other people are giving theirs. You don't like my view? Fine - feel free to
&gt; argue with me if you like. But when people start resorting to name-calling,
&gt; it hints at the possibility that they're running out of arguments.
&gt;

They're not name-calling, they're describing your behaviour. Perhaps it's
not occurred to you that &quot;suitable for children&quot; can often imply[1] a wide
range of restrictions beyond &quot;no adult material&quot; and pointing towards
&quot;maintaining the social norm&quot;? To give an example, should I and others
here who're polyamorous be expected to hide our relationships? How about
(and bearing in mind that a surprising number of kids in fact have a
fairly good understanding of the emotional aspects once you explain) the
BDSMers, and if the answer's partial which forms're okay?

Life's oh so easy when you have the luck not to be living on the
boundaries.

[1] Natural language is not logic, and I do indeed mean imply

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

There is no magic bullet. There are, however, plenty of bullets that
magically home in on feet when not used in exactly the right circumstances.

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#150: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 17:30:34 by geminii

On 31 May 2006 13:24:46 -0700, &quot;CCA&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;It means you've been turning into Stacie at night, like Jekyll and Hyde
&gt;;-) Or possibly the other way around...

OK, I didn't need the phrase &quot;were-Stacie&quot; stumbling around in my head and
tripping over the furniture.

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#151: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 17:32:14 by Torak

Diane L wrote:
&gt; treesy wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;2. Rant
&gt;&gt;The main thing that spurned me to write this is our public school
&gt;&gt;censors. Their job is to block innapropriate sites from school
&gt;&gt;networks in schools (which I agree with), however, I have cause to
&gt;&gt;think that they may be a little heavy handed.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Why, because I recently attempted to log on to afp from school, only
&gt;&gt;to find that it had been blocked as an &quot;adult-sex group&quot;. This,
&gt;&gt;naturally, has caused much confusion on my part, as I'd been
&gt;&gt;following afp from school for over a year before this.
&gt;
&gt; On a completely ... um ... related note, a recent project with Year
&gt; 7 showed that it is much easier for someone searching from a school
&gt; connection to find pictures of penises than it is to find pictures of
&gt; vaginas. Make of this what you will.

The admins are female?

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#152: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 17:34:28 by Torak

CCA wrote:
&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Honestly, I am *not* sure how that happened. (I gotta share that I
&gt;&gt;originally typoed &quot;sore&quot; instead of sure.) [3]
&gt;
&gt; I think it's one of those things that just builds up and up, often
&gt; without very much encouragement from the poster herself (or himself,
&gt; although I can't remember the same happening to a male poster here.)

Might be worth a try. Could be nice to have a fan club.

Report this message

#153: Re: [I] Ketchup (was: Varieties

Posted on 2006-06-01 17:35:24 by Torak

Hendrik Schober wrote:
&gt; Orjan Westin &lt;<a href="mailto:nospam&#64;cunobaros.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;cunobaros.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;[...]
&gt;&gt;Oh, I know that one. First there's nothing, then there's nothing, then
&gt;&gt;you give it a smack on the bottom and you get it all at once.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;If I had a penny for every meal that's been ruined by a Heinz bottle of
&gt;&gt;ketchup, I'd have enough to buy me another meal.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; But Ketchup will ruins the meal anyway, no matter
&gt; how little you manage to get out of the bottle and
&gt; onto the meal. (FiX'll be with me on that.)

Ketchup is EVIL.

Schobi, for once I'm wholeheartedly with you on something.

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#154: Re: [I] Varieties

Posted on 2006-06-01 17:37:00 by Torak

Rocky Frisco wrote:
&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt; Rocky Frisco wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; They are comfortably, softly and warmly clasping my _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; WHAT HAPPENED TO THE OTHER ONE!?!?!?
&gt;
&gt; All are there, I assure you. You may have guessed wrong on the terminology.
&gt;
&gt; Reminds me of the one about the young lady's question: &quot;Is anything worn
&gt; under your kilt?&quot;
&gt;
&gt; &quot;Nay, lassie, it's as good as ever!&quot;

Ah, but what did the bishop say?

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#155: Re: [M] was: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 17:40:53 by Stacie Hanes

Philippa Cowderoy wrote:
&gt;
&gt; should I and others here who're polyamorous be
&gt; expected to hide our relationships? How about (and bearing in mind
&gt; that a surprising number of kids in fact have a fairly good
&gt; understanding of the emotional aspects once you explain) the
&gt; BDSMers, and if the answer's partial which forms're okay?

Good question.

In relation to other discussions, some of what I say is flirting and goofing
off.

Other stuff is important. I'm bisexual, currently nononogamous, and a member
of the BDSM culture. I have several tattoos and piercings, I'm an atheist,
my poiltics are radically leftist (for an American) and I am probably
unconventional in any number of other ways.

This is stuff I don't expect to have to hide. I don't believe in closets at
all.

No, heterosexual, monogamous, vanilla, middle-of-the-road types don't always
talk about those aspects of their lives, but it comes up. I haven't heard
anyone introduce themselves with &quot;hi, my name's Stan and I'm straight&quot; but
there's a fair amount of &quot;I'm Stan and this is my wife Fran.&quot; I don't
introduce myself with &quot;Hi, I'm a bisexual top, what're you?&quot; but when it
comes up, I'm willing to chat about it.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#156: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 17:43:31 by Torak

Lesley Weston wrote:
&gt;
&gt; I believe you've said that your oldest is fifteen, and your others not too
&gt; far behind? Some afpers are not much older than that. Do you also choose the
&gt; books that your children are allowed to read? An ex-colleague of mine told
&gt; me once, very distressed, that he had been going through his teenage son's
&gt; things &quot;as one does&quot;, and to his horror had found amongst the young man's
&gt; shirts some letters from a girl; on reading them, he was further horrified
&gt; by their content. He had, of course, Spoken Harshly to his son and the boy
&gt; was now suitably penitent, but he couldn't get over the way that his son had
&gt; betrayed him, and was also worried about the depraved path his son had
&gt; chosen to follow, however briefly.
&gt;
&gt; I like the guy (there's more to someone's personality than their ideas
&gt; on child-rearing) and I knew I was going to have to continue working with
&gt; him for years to come, so I did manage to stay civil - but it was difficult.
&gt; It seems to me that it was the son's fundamental rights as a human that had
&gt; been betrayed in several important ways, not the father's trust in his son.
&gt; One part of those rights is his right to choose his own reading material,
&gt; friends, lifestyle and pastimes.

This is why I like my parents. All right, so Dad gets a bit panicky, but
only really pokes his nose into my finances (and only because I asked
him to take care of them while I'm abroad), and Mamma stays well away
from anything that's not in plain sight. Even when tidying, she'll ask
me if there's anything I don't want her looking at - and if there was I
reckon it'd be pretty safe from both of them.

Which is nice.

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#157: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 17:44:44 by Torak

<a href="mailto:elzystar&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">elzystar&#64;hotmail.com</a> wrote:
&gt;
&gt; Is there a Death of Censors? If not, there bloody well should be!

There couldn't be. They never die.

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#158: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 17:49:07 by Torak

Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; Lesley Weston said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Some afpers are not much older than that. Do you also choose
&gt;&gt;the books that your children are allowed to read?
&gt;
&gt; No, they're bright enough to choose good books. But it would be
&gt; irresponsible of me to allow them unrestricted Internet/Usenet access, not
&gt; because they would seek out unsuitable material, but because it's amazing
&gt; what you can stumble across by accident. (A friend of mine recently tried
&gt; to buy a plane ticket online, with his smiling happy wife looking on, and
&gt; made the mistake of guessing the URL. He got most of it right, but typed
&gt; ..com instead of .co.uk and ended up at a site where various seamstresses
&gt; advertised their wares. Oops.)

I seem to recall there was a site a few years ago that had bought up all
the various typos of &quot;hotmail.com&quot; and so ended up popping up dozens of
windows of porn whenever you got the URL slightly wrong.

I first learned of it when I heard &quot;WHAT THE BLOODY HELL IS THIS?!?!&quot;
from Mamma's desk back in '98. I guess eventually you just get so jaded
by the constant Cialis spam and stuff that you just sigh and click away.

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#159: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 17:49:21 by Hendrik Schober

Torak &lt;<a href="mailto:perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; [...]
&gt; This is why I like my parents. All right, so Dad gets a bit panicky, but
&gt; only really pokes his nose into my finances (and only because I asked
&gt; him to take care of them while I'm abroad), and Mamma stays well away
&gt; from anything that's not in plain sight. Even when tidying, she'll ask
&gt; me if there's anything I don't want her looking at - and if there was I
&gt; reckon it'd be pretty safe from both of them.
&gt;
&gt; Which is nice.

Which is how it's supposed to be. IMNSHO, anyway.

Schobi

--
<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a> is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

&quot;The sarcasm is mightier than the sword.&quot;
Eric Jarvis

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#160: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 17:49:30 by Torak

Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; Eric Jarvis said:
&gt;&gt;Arthur Hagen <a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a> wrote in
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Should one limit oneself to the children's
&gt;&gt;&gt;level because he's also written children's books?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;No. However we should try to pitch the tenor of the group somewhere close
&gt;&gt;to the tenor of the books. That means being aware of where the gutter is
&gt;&gt;and commenting subtly on its contents, without actually diving in for a
&gt;&gt;swim.
&gt;
&gt; &lt;aol&gt;Well said.&lt;/aol&gt;

I'll get my water wings.

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#161: Re: [I] Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 17:51:05 by Torak

Orjan Westin wrote:
&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;Lesley Weston said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Some afpers are not much older than that. Do you also choose
&gt;&gt;&gt;the books that your children are allowed to read?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;No, they're bright enough to choose good books. But it would be
&gt;&gt;irresponsible of me to allow them unrestricted Internet/Usenet
&gt;&gt;access, not because they would seek out unsuitable material, but
&gt;&gt;because it's amazing what you can stumble across by accident.
&gt;
&gt; Well, if you accidentally type alt.gherkins.spank.spank.spank instead of
&gt; alt.fan.pratchett I'd suspect it wasn't quite that accidental.
&gt;
&gt; &quot;Accidental Porn&quot; would be a great name for a rock band, by the way.

It would, yes.

Reminds me of a line from the first episode of the West Wing:

SAM: &quot;...and I accidentally slept with a prostitute last night.&quot;
TOBY: &quot;Accidentally?&quot;
SAM: &quot;Yeah.&quot;
TOBY: &quot;I don't understand. Did you trip?&quot;

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#162: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 17:52:11 by Brenda

<a href="mailto:geminii&#64;tpg.com.au" target="_blank">geminii&#64;tpg.com.au</a> said:

&gt; You might also think that this newsgroup was ever, at any point in its
&gt; entire history, aimed at anything else but an adult audience.

So how do you &quot;aim&quot; a newsgroup, then? And once it's aimed, how do you fire
it?

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#163: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 17:55:56 by Torak

Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; Arthur Hagen said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;1: If you disagree that children are at a different level, fine. You'll
&gt;&gt;hear no argument from me against that, as I think that children shouldn't
&gt;&gt;be sheltered.
&gt;&gt;But why then don't you want childrens subjected to what's here?
&gt;
&gt; I wouldn't want a dog subjected to some of the stuff that's posted here.

Yes, spiders can be scary.

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#164: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 17:56:01 by geminii

On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 14:24:17 +0000, Richard Heathfield
&lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;I'm not condemning anybody. I'm merely expressing an opinion about some of
&gt;the content posted here

One which has been raised and raised again from time immemorial, and every
time has been shot down to die festering in the gutter.

There should really be a FAQ on it by now...

Q: Wouldn't it be a REALLY NEAT idea to somehow wave a magic wand and
change afp, a group which has been firmly adult-oriented, adult-rated, and
adult-inhabited since its inception, into a G-rated kiddie paddling pool?
After all, a child might accidentally wander into the adult section of
Usenet and read us, OHNOES.

A: Sure, why don't you get right on that? After all, it worked so well the
other hundred-and-nineteen times it was proposed. But we all know YOUR
opinion is the SPECIAL one which is going to make it REALLY HAPPEN FER
SURE this time!


Forgive me if I seem irritated (or don't), but hearing the same damn
stupid things over and over and over again down the years reminds me too
much of working tech support.


-SteveD
--
Calibrating sarcasm meters... now.

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#165: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:04:07 by Kar98

On 2006-06-01 10:30:34 -0500, <a href="mailto:geminii&#64;tpg.com.au" target="_blank">geminii&#64;tpg.com.au</a> said:

&gt; On 31 May 2006 13:24:46 -0700, &quot;CCA&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; It means you've been turning into Stacie at night, like Jekyll and Hyde
&gt;&gt; ;-) Or possibly the other way around...
&gt;
&gt; OK, I didn't need the phrase &quot;were-Stacie&quot; stumbling around in my head and
&gt; tripping over the furniture.

Gentle scholar of literature and teenage TV series most of the time;
sword-axe wielding, gun-slinging blood-thirsty freak once a month?
Describes just about every female I've met so far.

---&gt; ;) &lt;---


--
Do you know what the chain of command is here? It's the chain I go get
and beat you with to show you who's in ruttin' command here.

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#166: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:06:31 by Kar98

On 2006-06-01 10:44:44 -0500, Torak &lt;<a href="mailto:perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; said:

&gt; <a href="mailto:elzystar&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">elzystar&#64;hotmail.com</a> wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Is there a Death of Censors? If not, there bloody well should be!
&gt;
&gt; There couldn't be. They never die.

Well, not voluntarly anyway.


--
You can only win at cheerleading by being the last one standing. The
easiest way is by goosing one of the cheerleaders at the bottom of the
pyramid.

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#167: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:10:25 by Stacie Hanes

Brian Howlett wrote:
&gt; On 31 May, Orjan Westin wrote:
&gt;
&gt; [snip]
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Being openly and blatantly female on the Internet is in some cases
&gt;&gt; all it takes.
&gt;&gt;
&gt; Of course, not everyone who is &quot;openly and blatantly female on the
&gt; Internet&quot; is /actually/ female...

As I have already told my friends on RPG.net, I am a balding, portly,
middleaged redneck named Earl.

So stick that in your pipe and smoke it. :-P

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#168: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:12:16 by Kar98

On 2006-06-01 11:04:07 -0500, René &lt;<a href="mailto:Kar98&#64;The-Coalition.US" target="_blank">Kar98&#64;The-Coalition.US</a>&gt; said:

&gt; sword-axe

I have no idea what a sword-axe is, but it kinda puts me on edge.

--
Dig a moat the length of the Mexican border. Take the dirt, raise the
levees in New Orleans, and put the Florida alligators in the moat.
Are there any other problems you would like for me to solve?

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#169: Re: [F] Reincarnation of the afp-junior list?

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:13:49 by Lister

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 16:18:43 +0100, Karen &lt;<a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;
&gt;Although if I were starting from scratch now, I'd be tempted to consider
&gt;a moderated web forum format as an option simply because that is a more
&gt;familiar format to most kids now. (yes I know, burn the heretic!)



Can I be the first one to object? I've always hated moderation and
don't wish to subject anyone to it. Mind you, I'm happy to go along
with anything.

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#170: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case akid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:13:52 by Torak

<a href="mailto:geminii&#64;tpg.com.au" target="_blank">geminii&#64;tpg.com.au</a> wrote:
&gt;
&gt; Forgive me if I seem irritated (or don't), but hearing the same damn
&gt; stupid things over and over and over again down the years reminds me too
&gt; much of working tech support.

While you're on the subject, can you fix the mug holder on my computer?

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#171: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:15:01 by Brenda

<a href="mailto:geminii&#64;tpg.com.au" target="_blank">geminii&#64;tpg.com.au</a> said:

&gt; On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 14:24:17 +0000, Richard Heathfield
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;I'm not condemning anybody. I'm merely expressing an opinion about some of
&gt;&gt;the content posted here
&gt;
&gt; One which has been raised and raised again from time immemorial

....which in itself suggests that there is something here worth discussing.

&gt; and every time has been shot down to die festering in the gutter.

Yes, it's much easier to shoot down a good idea than to make it work.

&gt;
&gt; There should really be a FAQ on it by now...
&gt;
&gt; Q: Wouldn't it be a REALLY NEAT idea to somehow wave a magic wand and
&gt; change afp, a group which has been firmly adult-oriented, adult-rated, and
&gt; adult-inhabited since its inception, into a G-rated kiddie paddling pool?

If it's so adult-oriented, adult-rated (whatever that means), and
adult-inhabited, it ought to be possible to discuss the matter in an adult
way. Please try.

Incidentally, we probably differ in our interpretations of the word &quot;adult&quot;.
I use it to mean much the same as &quot;grown-up&quot;, &quot;mature&quot;, etc, whereas you
seem to think it means &quot;warning: contains pornography&quot;.

&gt; Forgive me if I seem irritated (or don't), but hearing the same damn
&gt; stupid things over and over and over again down the years reminds me too
&gt; much of working tech support.

Why, did you leave the Tannoy mike open?

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#172: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:16:30 by Stacie Hanes

Karen wrote:

&gt; See it less as a 'request' and more as advice which is honestly in
&gt; your interest more than anyone else's - your name and identity are
&gt; attached to those posts for anyone now or in the future to access.

All of it was merely commentary, less than a direct rebuttal.

It's one reason I've considered retiring my real name and posting
pseudonymously.

At times I think I have worn out this identity.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#173: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:17:38 by Brenda

Torak wrote:
&gt; <a href="mailto:geminii&#64;tpg.com.au" target="_blank">geminii&#64;tpg.com.au</a> wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Forgive me if I seem irritated (or don't), but hearing the same damn
&gt;&gt; stupid things over and over and over again down the years reminds me
&gt;&gt; too much of working tech support.
&gt;
&gt; While you're on the subject, can you fix the mug holder on my
&gt; computer?

Also on the subject ... I've just deleted something, does that mean it has
been deleted? Can't you get it back for me if I whine a lot and/or threaten
to tell manglement?


:-0)


--
Ed.

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#174: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:18:05 by Hendrik Schober

Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; <a href="mailto:geminii&#64;tpg.com.au" target="_blank">geminii&#64;tpg.com.au</a> said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 14:24:17 +0000, Richard Heathfield
&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;I'm not condemning anybody. I'm merely expressing an opinion about some of
&gt;&gt;&gt;the content posted here
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; One which has been raised and raised again from time immemorial
&gt;
&gt; ...which in itself suggests that there is something here worth discussing.

By the same logic murder is worth considering.
It wouldn't be done again and again otherwise,
after all.

&gt; [...]
&gt; Incidentally, we probably differ in our interpretations of the word &quot;adult&quot;.
&gt; I use it to mean much the same as &quot;grown-up&quot;, &quot;mature&quot;, etc, whereas you
&gt; seem to think it means &quot;warning: contains pornography&quot;.

Oops. I thought it was you doing this?

&gt; [...]

Schobi

--
<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a> is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

&quot;The sarcasm is mightier than the sword.&quot;
Eric Jarvis

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#175: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:18:43 by Stacie Hanes

CCA wrote:

&gt; flirt with her, but people flirt with Peachy too,

Who has at least temporarily unsubscribed, in case no one noticed.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#176: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:20:21 by geminii

On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 15:52:11 +0000, Richard Heathfield
&lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;<a href="mailto:geminii&#64;tpg.com.au" target="_blank">geminii&#64;tpg.com.au</a> said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; You might also think that this newsgroup was ever, at any point in its
&gt;&gt; entire history, aimed at anything else but an adult audience.
&gt;
&gt;So how do you &quot;aim&quot; a newsgroup, then? And once it's aimed, how do you fire
&gt;it?

There's this &quot;Send&quot; button that does the job remarkably.

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#177: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:21:40 by geminii

On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 17:49:30 +0200, Torak &lt;<a href="mailto:perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt; Eric Jarvis said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;Arthur Hagen <a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a> wrote in
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Should one limit oneself to the children's
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;level because he's also written children's books?
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;No. However we should try to pitch the tenor of the group somewhere close
&gt;&gt;&gt;to the tenor of the books. That means being aware of where the gutter is
&gt;&gt;&gt;and commenting subtly on its contents, without actually diving in for a
&gt;&gt;&gt;swim.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &lt;aol&gt;Well said.&lt;/aol&gt;
&gt;
&gt;I'll get my water wings.

I'll get my periscope.

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#178: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:22:27 by Torak

<a href="mailto:geminii&#64;tpg.com.au" target="_blank">geminii&#64;tpg.com.au</a> wrote:
&gt; On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 17:49:30 +0200, Torak &lt;<a href="mailto:perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;Eric Jarvis said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Arthur Hagen <a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a> wrote in
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Should one limit oneself to the children's
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;level because he's also written children's books?
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;No. However we should try to pitch the tenor of the group somewhere close
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;to the tenor of the books. That means being aware of where the gutter is
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;and commenting subtly on its contents, without actually diving in for a
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;swim.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&lt;aol&gt;Well said.&lt;/aol&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;I'll get my water wings.
&gt;
&gt; I'll get my periscope.

Who gets the scuba gear?

Where's ol' Chapman gone? ;-)

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#179: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:28:00 by Brenda

Hendrik Schober said:

&gt; Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:geminii&#64;tpg.com.au" target="_blank">geminii&#64;tpg.com.au</a> said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 14:24:17 +0000, Richard Heathfield
&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;I'm not condemning anybody. I'm merely expressing an opinion about some
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;of the content posted here
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; One which has been raised and raised again from time immemorial
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; ...which in itself suggests that there is something here worth
&gt;&gt; discussing.
&gt;
&gt; By the same logic murder is worth considering.
&gt; It wouldn't be done again and again otherwise,
&gt; after all.

Word games. If many people in the past have expressed a desire for an afp
which you wouldn't be embarrassed to invite your mother to, then it's not
unreasonable to at least consider the idea that such a group might be worth
setting up.

&gt;&gt; [...]
&gt;&gt; Incidentally, we probably differ in our interpretations of the word
&gt;&gt; &quot;adult&quot;. I use it to mean much the same as &quot;grown-up&quot;, &quot;mature&quot;, etc,
&gt;&gt; whereas you seem to think it means &quot;warning: contains pornography&quot;.
&gt;
&gt; Oops. I thought it was you doing this?

Nope. Try to read what I actually write, not what you think I'm writing.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#180: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:29:27 by Stacie Hanes

Orjan Westin wrote:
&gt; CCA wrote:
&gt;&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; That I'm not the only one taking part isn't a defense, but but it
&gt;&gt;&gt; is a fact. Those are subjects about which I enjoy discussion, for
&gt;&gt;&gt; which I don't think an apology is completely appropriate.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I agree with you, and I certainly don't think you need to apologise
&gt;&gt; for anything. And no, you're certainly not the only one taking
&gt;&gt; part, far from it.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; [To everyone else]
&gt;&gt; I have noticed, in this thread, one or two people hinting along the
&gt;&gt; lines of &quot;This recent rise in flirting-style posts is all to do
&gt;&gt; with Stacie/Anastasia&quot;, and I really don't think it's helping
&gt;&gt; anyone when we point fingers and say &quot;It's all her fault.&quot;
&gt;
&gt; Smacks slightly of &quot;But she asked for it, wearing a miniskirt&quot; to
&gt; me, yes.
&gt;

There's also just a confluence of events. In the past two years, a lot has
happened to me. I'm in transtition between being straight and gay, married
and single, monogamous and nonmonogamous.

I have *always* written about literature from a Queer Theory angle. My
article about Greebo as a queer leatherbeast appeared in a British SF
journal, and mentioned sex toys and BDSM--and was totally serious and
sincere.

Professionally, I'm now up to my neck in a Gender &amp; Sexuality themed
sf/fantasy academic conference.

In addition, I have &quot;come out&quot; as an artist. A photographer, in fact, and
many of my pictures involve some degree of nudity. Guess who models for the
pictures.

All of that is my life. It's not my &quot;sex life,&quot; either. There is an amazing
amount of information about myself that I would have to hide if we didn't
talk about sex, sexualit, gender, bondage, and god knows what else.

On top of all that, I am unhappily single, and have talked about this here.
So yeah, there are a thousand openings for people to flirt with me.

I don't answer all of them, far from. Notice I'm not actually answering
&quot;charges&quot; as such, just talking.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#181: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:30:22 by Stacie Hanes

René wrote:

&gt;&gt; Smacks slightly of &quot;But she asked for it, wearing a miniskirt&quot; to
&gt;&gt; me, yes.
&gt;
&gt; Nah, it's more like &quot;but she's the only one easily IDable as actual
&gt; female, and kinda cute&quot;. Not that there is anything wrong with that
&gt; :D

Well, in point of fact, Peachy is the only person here who has met me in
person..

Love,
Earl

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#182: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:31:25 by Stacie Hanes

<a href="mailto:geminii&#64;tpg.com.au" target="_blank">geminii&#64;tpg.com.au</a> wrote:
&gt; On 31 May 2006 13:24:46 -0700, &quot;CCA&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; It means you've been turning into Stacie at night, like Jekyll and
&gt;&gt; Hyde ;-) Or possibly the other way around...
&gt;
&gt; OK, I didn't need the phrase &quot;were-Stacie&quot; stumbling around in my
&gt; head and tripping over the furniture.

I find that intriguing and slightly boggling. Gods know I've bitten enough
people.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#183: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:31:33 by geminii

On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 16:15:01 +0000, Richard Heathfield
&lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;<a href="mailto:geminii&#64;tpg.com.au" target="_blank">geminii&#64;tpg.com.au</a> said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 14:24:17 +0000, Richard Heathfield
&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;I'm not condemning anybody. I'm merely expressing an opinion about some of
&gt;&gt;&gt;the content posted here
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; One which has been raised and raised again from time immemorial
&gt;
&gt;...which in itself suggests that there is something here worth discussing.

What a fascinating interpretation. Do feel free to expand on the method
you used to arrive at this conclusion.


&gt;&gt; and every time has been shot down to die festering in the gutter.
&gt;
&gt;Yes, it's much easier to shoot down a good idea than to make it work.

Be my guest, show us all how this 'good idea' shall work. No, please, go
right ahead.


&gt;&gt; There should really be a FAQ on it by now...
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Q: Wouldn't it be a REALLY NEAT idea to somehow wave a magic wand and
&gt;&gt; change afp, a group which has been firmly adult-oriented, adult-rated, and
&gt;&gt; adult-inhabited since its inception, into a G-rated kiddie paddling pool?
&gt;
&gt;If it's so adult-oriented, adult-rated (whatever that means), and
&gt;adult-inhabited, it ought to be possible to discuss the matter in an adult
&gt;way. Please try.

It's been done, and done, and done to death. Your reprisal is the
equivalent of the new puppy digging up the remains of the old one and
expecting to be congratulated on its magnificent find.


&gt;Incidentally, we probably differ in our interpretations of the word &quot;adult&quot;.
&gt;I use it to mean much the same as &quot;grown-up&quot;, &quot;mature&quot;, etc, whereas you
&gt;seem to think it means &quot;warning: contains pornography&quot;.

Ah, I do so love when people tell me what I'm thinking. Do I get to tell
you what you're thinking, too? We shall have such fun!


&gt;&gt; Forgive me if I seem irritated (or don't), but hearing the same damn
&gt;&gt; stupid things over and over and over again down the years reminds me too
&gt;&gt; much of working tech support.
&gt;
&gt;Why, did you leave the Tannoy mike open?

Your analogy needs work.

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#184: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:32:14 by Stacie Hanes

René wrote:
&gt; On 2006-06-01 10:30:34 -0500, <a href="mailto:geminii&#64;tpg.com.au" target="_blank">geminii&#64;tpg.com.au</a> said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; On 31 May 2006 13:24:46 -0700, &quot;CCA&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; It means you've been turning into Stacie at night, like Jekyll
&gt;&gt;&gt; and Hyde ;-) Or possibly the other way around...
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; OK, I didn't need the phrase &quot;were-Stacie&quot; stumbling around in my
&gt;&gt; head and tripping over the furniture.
&gt;
&gt; Gentle scholar of literature and teenage TV series most of the time;
&gt; sword-axe wielding, gun-slinging blood-thirsty freak once a month?
&gt; Describes just about every female I've met so far.

GAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!

ROFL

That didn't need a smilie. But beter safe than sorry. :-)

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#185: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:32:56 by geminii

On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 18:13:52 +0200, Torak &lt;<a href="mailto:perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;<a href="mailto:geminii&#64;tpg.com.au" target="_blank">geminii&#64;tpg.com.au</a> wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Forgive me if I seem irritated (or don't), but hearing the same damn
&gt;&gt; stupid things over and over and over again down the years reminds me too
&gt;&gt; much of working tech support.
&gt;
&gt;While you're on the subject, can you fix the mug holder on my computer?

Sure I can! UKP800, cash, in advance.

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#186: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:34:46 by Stacie Hanes

René wrote:

&gt; kinda cute

KINDA?!?!? *KINDA*?!?

&lt;snit&gt;

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#187: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:37:38 by Stacie Hanes

Torak wrote:
&gt; CCA wrote:
&gt;&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Honestly, I am *not* sure how that happened. (I gotta share that
&gt;&gt;&gt; I originally typoed &quot;sore&quot; instead of sure.) [3]
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I think it's one of those things that just builds up and up, often
&gt;&gt; without very much encouragement from the poster herself (or
&gt;&gt; himself, although I can't remember the same happening to a male
&gt;&gt; poster here.)
&gt;
&gt; Might be worth a try. Could be nice to have a fan club.

&lt;giggle&gt;

I could be the first ordinary Josephine to have my own froup.
alt.fan.esmeraldus-anastasia-badkitty

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#188: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:38:33 by Graycat

On 31 May 2006 23:55:58 -0700, <a href="mailto:elzystar&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">elzystar&#64;hotmail.com</a> jotted
down:


&gt;I had a lot of trouble with the censors at school last year, they had a
&gt;thing against hotmail and msn... they also blocked Google Images, and
&gt;probably Google Groups. Like you, we got around this by accessing
&gt;international sites... they do catch up eventually, and realise what
&gt;you're doing. Then it's just a matter of finding another hole in the
&gt;net. :)

At the high school I went to in Canada loads of stuff was
blocked, including iirc most international sites. It was
fairly widely known though that if you put an s (again,
iirc) before the web adress you could pretty much access
anything you liked...

--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
The Oswalds DW casting award - Vote Now!
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#189: Re: [F] Reincarnation of the afp-junior list?

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:39:09 by Karen

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:rr3u72djjb6qh7embj78n6kk6i0jc4emcv&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">rr3u72djjb6qh7embj78n6kk6i0jc4emcv&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;, Lister
&lt;<a href="mailto:fache&#64;SPAMclara.net" target="_blank">fache&#64;SPAMclara.net</a>&gt; writes
&gt;On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 16:18:43 +0100, Karen &lt;<a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Although if I were starting from scratch now, I'd be tempted to consider
&gt;&gt;a moderated web forum format as an option simply because that is a more
&gt;&gt;familiar format to most kids now. (yes I know, burn the heretic!)
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;Can I be the first one to object? I've always hated moderation and
&gt;don't wish to subject anyone to it. Mind you, I'm happy to go along
&gt;with anything.


Did you actually read the subject line?

--
Karen/hypatia <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>
New? Check <a href="http://www.lspace.org" target="_blank">http://www.lspace.org</a>
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#190: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:40:54 by Graycat

On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 16:28:00 +0000, Richard Heathfield
&lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; jotted down:

&gt;Hendrik Schober said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:geminii&#64;tpg.com.au" target="_blank">geminii&#64;tpg.com.au</a> said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 14:24:17 +0000, Richard Heathfield
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;I'm not condemning anybody. I'm merely expressing an opinion about some
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;of the content posted here
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; One which has been raised and raised again from time immemorial
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; ...which in itself suggests that there is something here worth
&gt;&gt;&gt; discussing.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; By the same logic murder is worth considering.
&gt;&gt; It wouldn't be done again and again otherwise,
&gt;&gt; after all.
&gt;
&gt;Word games. If many people in the past have expressed a desire for an afp
&gt;which you wouldn't be embarrassed to invite your mother to, then it's not
&gt;unreasonable to at least consider the idea that such a group might be worth
&gt;setting up.

Funny, my mum actually knows what sex is, I even believe
she's had some, at least twice...

--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
The Oswalds DW casting award - Vote Now!
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#191: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:42:18 by jester

On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 16:29:27 GMT, Anastasia
&lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;Guess who models for the pictures.

Well, unless you've sorted out the self-timer, it's not you modelling for
yourself 8-)

--
Andy Brown
&quot;How do you feel about women's rights?&quot;
&quot;I like either side of them.&quot;
-- Groucho Marx, 1890-1977

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#192: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:43:17 by Kar98

On 2006-06-01 11:30:22 -0500, &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; said:

&gt; René wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Smacks slightly of &quot;But she asked for it, wearing a miniskirt&quot; to
&gt;&gt;&gt; me, yes.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Nah, it's more like &quot;but she's the only one easily IDable as actual
&gt;&gt; female, and kinda cute&quot;. Not that there is anything wrong with that
&gt;&gt; :D
&gt;
&gt; Well, in point of fact, Peachy is the only person here who has met me
&gt; in person..

That is entirely besides the point. Your Internet persona is female and
seeing how that is the only thing visible from my end, that's all that
counts here.
I play a mean Flopsy the Valley Girl on IRC and my Moishe the Trailer
Park Jew Kid was just adorable.


--
The short answer is &quot;Yes.&quot; The long answer is &quot;No.&quot;

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#193: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:43:33 by sphira9343

Anastasia wrote:
&gt; CCA wrote:

&gt; &gt; but people flirt with Peachy too,

&gt; Who has at least temporarily unsubscribed, in case no one noticed.

That's a shame. I hope she comes back soon.
CCA

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#194: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:44:30 by Stacie Hanes

Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; Arthur Hagen said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Should one limit oneself to the children's
&gt;&gt; level because he's also written children's books?
&gt;
&gt; You make it sound like children are a separate species. They're
&gt; not. And you make it sound like scatology, lavatory humour and
&gt; nudge nudge wink wink references are more &quot;advanced&quot; than this
&gt; mythical &quot;children's level&quot; that you speak of. They're not.

I'm pretty sure I didn't actually understand that at all. Literally didn't
get what you're saying, even enough to reply.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#195: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:45:22 by Stacie Hanes

Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; Arthur Hagen said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; 1: If you disagree that children are at a different level, fine.
&gt;&gt; You'll hear no argument from me against that, as I think that
&gt;&gt; children shouldn't be sheltered.
&gt;&gt; But why then don't you want childrens subjected to what's here?
&gt;
&gt; I wouldn't want a dog subjected to some of the stuff that's posted
&gt; here.

I'm asking you directly: are you talking about me?
--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#196: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:45:30 by Louis

Ren=E9 wrote:
&gt; On 2006-06-01 10:44:44 -0500, Torak &lt;<a href="mailto:perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; <a href="mailto:elzystar&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">elzystar&#64;hotmail.com</a> wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Is there a Death of Censors? If not, there bloody well should be!
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; There couldn't be. They never die.
&gt;
&gt; Well, not voluntarly anyway.

Well, no... but I'm sure a few heavy swings of my axe might assist
things..

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#197: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:45:43 by sphira9343

Ren=E9 wrote:

[Stacie/Anastasia]

&gt; Nah, it's more like &quot;but she's the only one easily IDable as actual
&gt; female, and kinda cute&quot;. Not that there is anything wrong with that :D

Plenty of cute females around here, and on #afp too. =20
CCA

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#198: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:45:51 by Kar98

On 2006-06-01 11:29:27 -0500, &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; said:

&gt; Professionally, I'm now up to my neck in a Gender &amp; Sexuality themed
&gt; sf/fantasy academic conference.

Well, I'm sure Johnny Ringo will come up as a topic. Made me kinda quit
reading The Council Wars and prevented me from starting getting into
that other series (not Alldenata) of his in first place.


--
Do you know what the chain of command is here? It's the chain I go get
and beat you with to show you who's in ruttin' command here.

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#199: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:47:15 by Kar98

On 2006-06-01 11:17:38 -0500, &quot;Ed Weatherup&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; said:

&gt; Torak wrote:
&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:geminii&#64;tpg.com.au" target="_blank">geminii&#64;tpg.com.au</a> wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Forgive me if I seem irritated (or don't), but hearing the same damn
&gt;&gt;&gt; stupid things over and over and over again down the years reminds me
&gt;&gt;&gt; too much of working tech support.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; While you're on the subject, can you fix the mug holder on my
&gt;&gt; computer?
&gt;
&gt; Also on the subject ... I've just deleted something, does that mean it
&gt; has been deleted? Can't you get it back for me if I whine a lot and/or
&gt; threaten to tell manglement?

People who store their allegedly important files in the trash can...



--
Dig a moat the length of the Mexican border. Take the dirt, raise the
levees in New Orleans, and put the Florida alligators in the moat.
Are there any other problems you would like for me to solve?

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#200: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:50:10 by Kar98

On 2006-06-01 11:18:05 -0500, &quot;Hendrik Schober&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a>&gt; said:

&gt; By the same logic murder is worth considering.

It is. Well, homicide is, anyway.

--
It won't get better if you picket.

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#201: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:50:52 by Brenda

<a href="mailto:geminii&#64;tpg.com.au" target="_blank">geminii&#64;tpg.com.au</a> said:

&gt; On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 16:15:01 +0000, Richard Heathfield
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;<a href="mailto:geminii&#64;tpg.com.au" target="_blank">geminii&#64;tpg.com.au</a> said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 14:24:17 +0000, Richard Heathfield
&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;I'm not condemning anybody. I'm merely expressing an opinion about some
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;of the content posted here
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; One which has been raised and raised again from time immemorial
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;...which in itself suggests that there is something here worth discussing.
&gt;
&gt; What a fascinating interpretation. Do feel free to expand on the method
&gt; you used to arrive at this conclusion.

You have suggested that many people have expressed a desire for a Pratchett
fan group which people can read while their family are in the room. I am
arguing that it would not be completely unreasonable to take this
(according to you) much-expressed desire as a hint that there is a
much-expressed desire for a Pratchett fan group which people needn't be
embarrassed to read while their family are in the room.

I apologise for using several polysyllabic words in that explanation. I also
apologise for using tricky logic. Perhaps I should clarify for you the
logical process I used:

A implies A.


&gt;&gt;Incidentally, we probably differ in our interpretations of the word
&gt;&gt;&quot;adult&quot;. I use it to mean much the same as &quot;grown-up&quot;, &quot;mature&quot;, etc,
&gt;&gt;whereas you seem to think it means &quot;warning: contains pornography&quot;.
&gt;
&gt; Ah, I do so love when people tell me what I'm thinking.

Which syllable of &quot;seem&quot; were you struggling with?

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#202: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:51:29 by sphira9343

Torak wrote:
&gt; <a href="mailto:geminii&#64;tpg.com.au" target="_blank">geminii&#64;tpg.com.au</a> wrote:

&gt; &gt; Forgive me if I seem irritated (or don't), but hearing the same damn
&gt; &gt; stupid things over and over and over again down the years reminds me too
&gt; &gt; much of working tech support.

&gt; While you're on the subject, can you fix the mug holder on my computer?

So *that's* what it's for!
CCA

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#203: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:51:56 by Stacie Hanes

Graycat wrote:

&gt; Funny, my mum actually knows what sex is, I even believe
&gt; she's had some, at least twice...

And I know my mum has bought a strapon, although in retrospect I could've
done without knowing that.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#204: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case akid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:53:03 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; You have suggested that many people have expressed a desire for a Pratchett
&gt; fan group which people can read while their family are in the room. I am
&gt; arguing that it would not be completely unreasonable to take this
&gt; (according to you) much-expressed desire as a hint that there is a
&gt; much-expressed desire for a Pratchett fan group which people needn't be
&gt; embarrassed to read while their family are in the room.
&gt;

What this doesn't do is magically make alt.fan.pratchett the right place
to build that group. It's usenet and it's unmoderated, sooner or later
something *will* go wrong.

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

'In Ankh-Morpork even the shit have a street to itself...
Truly this is a land of opportunity.' - Detritus, Men at Arms

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#205: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:53:43 by Kar98

On 2006-06-01 11:45:43 -0500, &quot;CCA&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; said:

&gt; René wrote:
&gt;
&gt; [Stacie/Anastasia]
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Nah, it's more like &quot;but she's the only one easily IDable as actual
&gt;&gt; female, and kinda cute&quot;. Not that there is anything wrong with that :D
&gt;
&gt; Plenty of cute females around here, and on #afp too. CCA

I said &quot;easily IDable&quot;, too. You're undoubtedly correct, but &quot;CCA&quot;
doesn't mean anything to me, for instance.


--
Dig a moat the length of the Mexican border. Take the dirt, raise the
levees in New Orleans, and put the Florida alligators in the moat.
Are there any other problems you would like for me to solve?

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#206: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:54:00 by Stacie Hanes

Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; that there is a much-expressed desire for a Pratchett fan group
&gt; which people needn't be embarrassed to read while their family are
&gt; in the room.

What size font are you reading in? Or do they just read over your shoulder?

Seriously, someone sitting two feet from me wouldn't be able to pick up on
the conversation.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#207: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case akid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:54:21 by Peter Ellis

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&gt; Word games. If many people in the past have expressed a desire for an afp
&gt; which you wouldn't be embarrassed to invite your mother to, then it's not
&gt; unreasonable to at least consider the idea that such a group might be worth
&gt; setting up.

This is the alt hierarchy, you're free to set up the group if you want. I'll
stick with this one.

Bye.

Peter

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#208: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:56:33 by Brenda

Anastasia said:

&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt; Arthur Hagen said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; 1: If you disagree that children are at a different level, fine.
&gt;&gt;&gt; You'll hear no argument from me against that, as I think that
&gt;&gt;&gt; children shouldn't be sheltered.
&gt;&gt;&gt; But why then don't you want childrens subjected to what's here?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I wouldn't want a dog subjected to some of the stuff that's posted
&gt;&gt; here.
&gt;
&gt; I'm asking you directly: are you talking about me?

How can I be? You've never been posted here. Therefore, the answer is
self-evidently &quot;no&quot;. There is an important distinction between subscribers
and articles. I think it was Torak who made that distinction very clear
earlier today. Or possibly Orjan.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#209: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:58:02 by Stacie Hanes

Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Arthur Hagen said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1: If you disagree that children are at a different level, fine.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; You'll hear no argument from me against that, as I think that
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; children shouldn't be sheltered.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; But why then don't you want childrens subjected to what's here?
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I wouldn't want a dog subjected to some of the stuff that's posted
&gt;&gt;&gt; here.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I'm asking you directly: are you talking about me?
&gt;
&gt; How can I be? You've never been posted here. Therefore, the answer
&gt; is self-evidently &quot;no&quot;. There is an important distinction between
&gt; subscribers and articles. I think it was Torak who made that
&gt; distinction very clear earlier today. Or possibly Orjan.

I believe that to be an evasion. I also believe you know what I meant.

Were you, are you, speaking of the subjects and manner of the words I have
posted and the like manner in which others have replied.

I ask again, is it my presence to which you refer? Literalness isn't an
answer.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#210: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 18:59:43 by Peter Ellis

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Anastasia wrote:
&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt; Arthur Hagen said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Should one limit oneself to the children's
&gt;&gt;&gt; level because he's also written children's books?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; You make it sound like children are a separate species. They're
&gt;&gt; not. And you make it sound like scatology, lavatory humour and
&gt;&gt; nudge nudge wink wink references are more &quot;advanced&quot; than this
&gt;&gt; mythical &quot;children's level&quot; that you speak of. They're not.
&gt;
&gt; I'm pretty sure I didn't actually understand that at all. Literally didn't
&gt; get what you're saying, even enough to reply.

He's telling the naughty kids not to talk about naughty things, because
that's not what grown-ups do. Grown-ups never flirt or talk about sex.
And woe betide anyone who reveals they have a willy.

Peter (has, last time he checked)

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#211: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 19:05:53 by Brenda

Philippa Cowderoy said:

&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; You have suggested that many people have expressed a desire for a
&gt;&gt; Pratchett fan group which people can read while their family are in the
&gt;&gt; room. I am arguing that it would not be completely unreasonable to take
&gt;&gt; this (according to you) much-expressed desire as a hint that there is a
&gt;&gt; much-expressed desire for a Pratchett fan group which people needn't be
&gt;&gt; embarrassed to read while their family are in the room.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; What this doesn't do is magically make alt.fan.pratchett the right place
&gt; to build that group.

Certainly true. (Thanks for responding intelligently, Philippa. It makes a
pleasant change. And anyone who is offended by that, deserves to be.)

&gt; It's usenet and it's unmoderated, sooner or later
&gt; something *will* go wrong.

Yeah, I know - but I'm not talking about moderation (a la censorship). I'm
talking about culture change, so that people are free to discuss
Pratchettesque matters without being drenched by neighbours constantly
hurling themselves into the gutter. And you may be right about afp not
being the place for that; perhaps there are insufficiently many people who
are capable of holding a conversation without having a security gutter
within easy reach. I hope and believe that's false, but I could be wrong.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#212: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 19:12:36 by Brenda

Anastasia said:

&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; that there is a much-expressed desire for a Pratchett fan group
&gt;&gt; which people needn't be embarrassed to read while their family are
&gt;&gt; in the room.
&gt;
&gt; What size font are you reading in?

12-point courier. Large enough for me to read, and therefore certainly large
enough for younger eyes to read.


&gt; Or do they just read over your shoulder?

They don't need to. It's a big monitor, and it faces the room.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#213: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 19:21:35 by Hendrik Schober

Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Hendrik Schober said:
&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:geminii&#64;tpg.com.au" target="_blank">geminii&#64;tpg.com.au</a> said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 14:24:17 +0000, Richard Heathfield
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;I'm not condemning anybody. I'm merely expressing an opinion about some
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;of the content posted here
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; One which has been raised and raised again from time immemorial
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; ...which in itself suggests that there is something here worth
&gt;&gt;&gt; discussing.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; By the same logic murder is worth considering.
&gt;&gt; It wouldn't be done again and again otherwise,
&gt;&gt; after all.
&gt;
&gt; Word games.

Right. Whenever logic fails, resort to name-calling.

&gt; If many people in the past have expressed a desire for an afp
&gt; which you wouldn't be embarrassed to invite your mother to, then it's not
&gt; unreasonable to at least consider the idea that such a group might be worth
&gt; setting up.

I wouldn't be embarrased to invite my mother to afp,
if it wasn't for the fact that her Engish is too poor
to understand most of it.
Shall I now pity you for your mother? And what about
your kids? My old ones learnt how they got started
when they were 4 and 7.

&gt;&gt;&gt; [...]
&gt;&gt;&gt; Incidentally, we probably differ in our interpretations of the word
&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;adult&quot;. I use it to mean much the same as &quot;grown-up&quot;, &quot;mature&quot;, etc,
&gt;&gt;&gt; whereas you seem to think it means &quot;warning: contains pornography&quot;.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Oops. I thought it was you doing this?
&gt;
&gt; Nope. Try to read what I actually write, not what you think I'm writing.

Same goes for you towards geminii then.

Schobi

--
<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a> is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

&quot;The sarcasm is mightier than the sword.&quot;
Eric Jarvis

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#214: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 19:28:35 by Brian Howlett

On 1 Jun, Anastasia wrote:

[snip]
&gt;
&gt; As I have already told my friends on RPG.net, I am a balding, portly,
&gt; middleaged redneck named Earl.

I don't doubt it for a second.
&gt;
&gt; So stick that in your pipe and smoke it. :-P
&gt;
Puff, puff, puffity-puff...
--
Brian Howlett - Email to From: address deleted unseen
-----------------------------------------------------------
There is a little known psychological theory that all women
subconsciously want to be piano players. Pianist envy.

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#215: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 19:31:34 by Stacie Hanes

jester wrote:
&gt; On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 16:29:27 GMT, Anastasia
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt; Guess who models for the pictures.
&gt;
&gt; Well, unless you've sorted out the self-timer, it's not you
&gt; modelling for yourself 8-)

It is me, you goof.

The self timer is only a problem when I cuff my hands behind my back.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#216: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 19:33:38 by Stacie Hanes

René wrote:
&gt; On 2006-06-01 11:29:27 -0500, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; said:
&gt;&gt; Professionally, I'm now up to my neck in a Gender &amp; Sexuality
&gt;&gt; themed sf/fantasy academic conference.
&gt;
&gt; Well, I'm sure Johnny Ringo will come up as a topic. Made me kinda
&gt; quit reading The Council Wars and prevented me from starting
&gt; getting into that other series (not Alldenata) of his in first place.

Tell me more. I'm not familiar with any of that. Could you do it by leaving
a comment on my blog?

esmeraldus.blogspot.com

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#217: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 19:34:42 by Brenda

Anastasia said:

&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Arthur Hagen said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1: If you disagree that children are at a different level, fine.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; You'll hear no argument from me against that, as I think that
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; children shouldn't be sheltered.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; But why then don't you want childrens subjected to what's here?
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I wouldn't want a dog subjected to some of the stuff that's posted
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; here.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I'm asking you directly: are you talking about me?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; How can I be? You've never been posted here. Therefore, the answer
&gt;&gt; is self-evidently &quot;no&quot;. There is an important distinction between
&gt;&gt; subscribers and articles. I think it was Torak who made that
&gt;&gt; distinction very clear earlier today. Or possibly Orjan.
&gt;
&gt; I believe that to be an evasion.

It wasn't.

&gt; I also believe you know what I meant.

I believe you probably were trying to find out whether I wanted you to stop
posting to the group (but it isn't what you actually asked).

And I don't want to stop /anyone/ posting to the group. In fact, I would go
further - I don't want to stop anyone from /reading/ the group either. But
some of the stuff being posted here does precisely that. The way the group
is now, it is hardly surprising that it's being blocked by parental control
software, as reported recently by someone else on another thread.


&gt; Were you, are you, speaking of the subjects and manner of the words I have
&gt; posted and the like manner in which others have replied.

I am speaking of the kind of stuff that means the group is being blocked by
parental control software, as reported recently by someone else on another
thread. We have the opportunity to treat this as a heads-up warning, and to
take time to reflect on whether that is the way we want the group to go.

&gt; I ask again, is it my presence to which you refer?

No.

&gt; Literalness isn't an answer.

Yes, it is. In fact, sometimes it's the only answer.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#218: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 19:36:01 by Stacie Hanes

Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; free to discuss Pratchettesque matters without being drenched by
&gt; neighbours constantly hurling themselves into the gutter.

Again, and I do not intend to start a flamewar, at all. My word on that.

But.

I specifically and directly am asking you whether my contributions to this
newsgroup are what you're referring to, in whole or in part.

Can you simply give me an honest answer to this?

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#219: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 19:36:42 by Brenda

Peter Ellis said:

&gt; He's telling the naughty kids not to talk about [...]

No, I'm not *telling* anyone to do *anything*. Sheesh, can't you READ?

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#220: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 19:37:08 by Stacie Hanes

Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; that there is a much-expressed desire for a Pratchett fan group
&gt;&gt;&gt; which people needn't be embarrassed to read while their family are
&gt;&gt;&gt; in the room.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; What size font are you reading in?
&gt;
&gt; 12-point courier. Large enough for me to read, and therefore
&gt; certainly large enough for younger eyes to read.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Or do they just read over your shoulder?
&gt;
&gt; They don't need to. It's a big monitor, and it faces the room.


How close are they? And how long do they glance? Seriously, I do not get
this problem.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

Report this message

#221: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 19:40:49 by Stacie Hanes

Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Arthur Hagen said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1: If you disagree that children are at a different level,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; fine. You'll hear no argument from me against that, as I think
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that children shouldn't be sheltered.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; But why then don't you want childrens subjected to what's here?
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I wouldn't want a dog subjected to some of the stuff that's
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; posted here.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I'm asking you directly: are you talking about me?
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; How can I be? You've never been posted here. Therefore, the answer
&gt;&gt;&gt; is self-evidently &quot;no&quot;. There is an important distinction between
&gt;&gt;&gt; subscribers and articles. I think it was Torak who made that
&gt;&gt;&gt; distinction very clear earlier today. Or possibly Orjan.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I believe that to be an evasion.
&gt;
&gt; It wasn't.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I also believe you know what I meant.
&gt;
&gt; I believe you probably were trying to find out whether I wanted you
&gt; to stop posting to the group (but it isn't what you actually asked).

No, that is not what I asked, nor is it what I want to know. I may quit the
group, but whether you want me to wouldn't be a factor.


&gt; I am speaking of the kind of stuff that means the group is being
&gt; blocked by parental control software, as reported recently by
&gt; someone else on another thread. We have the opportunity to treat
&gt; this as a heads-up warning, and to take time to reflect on whether
&gt; that is the way we want the group to go.

I want clinical specifics.

&gt;&gt; I ask again, is it my presence to which you refer?
&gt;
&gt; No.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Literalness isn't an answer.
&gt;
&gt; Yes, it is. In fact, sometimes it's the only answer.

I don't buy that.

I and others discuss gender, BDSM, sexuality, sex, and other matters. Do you
object to this?

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#222: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 19:41:25 by Kar98

On 2006-06-01 12:33:38 -0500, &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; said:

&gt; René wrote:
&gt;&gt; On 2006-06-01 11:29:27 -0500, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; said:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Professionally, I'm now up to my neck in a Gender &amp; Sexuality
&gt;&gt;&gt; themed sf/fantasy academic conference.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Well, I'm sure Johnny Ringo will come up as a topic. Made me kinda
&gt;&gt; quit reading The Council Wars and prevented me from starting
&gt;&gt; getting into that other series (not Alldenata) of his in first place.
&gt;
&gt; Tell me more. I'm not familiar with any of that. Could you do it by
&gt; leaving a comment on my blog?
&gt;
&gt; esmeraldus.blogspot.com


I don't do this whole bloggy thing, sorry. E-mail or here?


--
You can only win at cheerleading by being the last one standing. The
easiest way is by goosing one of the cheerleaders at the bottom of the
pyramid.

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#223: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 19:48:26 by Stacie Hanes

René wrote:
&gt; On 2006-06-01 12:33:38 -0500, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; said:
&gt;&gt; René wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; On 2006-06-01 11:29:27 -0500, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Professionally, I'm now up to my neck in a Gender &amp; Sexuality
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; themed sf/fantasy academic conference.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Well, I'm sure Johnny Ringo will come up as a topic. Made me kinda
&gt;&gt;&gt; quit reading The Council Wars and prevented me from starting
&gt;&gt;&gt; getting into that other series (not Alldenata) of his in first
&gt;&gt;&gt; place.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Tell me more. I'm not familiar with any of that. Could you do it by
&gt;&gt; leaving a comment on my blog?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; esmeraldus.blogspot.com
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I don't do this whole bloggy thing, sorry. E-mail or here?

E-mail, but seriously, you can't read a blog? &lt;puzzled&gt;


--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#224: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 19:49:57 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; I believe that to be an evasion.
&gt;
&gt; It wasn't.
&gt;
&gt; &gt; I also believe you know what I meant.
&gt;
&gt; I believe you probably were trying to find out whether I wanted you to stop
&gt; posting to the group (but it isn't what you actually asked).
&gt;

There's an old line about assumptions. You may be assuming more than is
valid here.

&gt; &gt; Were you, are you, speaking of the subjects and manner of the words I have
&gt; &gt; posted and the like manner in which others have replied.
&gt;
&gt; I am speaking of the kind of stuff that means the group is being blocked by
&gt; parental control software, as reported recently by someone else on another
&gt; thread. We have the opportunity to treat this as a heads-up warning, and to
&gt; take time to reflect on whether that is the way we want the group to go.
&gt;

&quot;To go&quot;? We're already here, and frankly given the way much of that
software works there's no way to avoid it without stifling conversation
about a significant part of most participants' lives. That software is
designed to be exceedingly paranoid - discussion of laws related to sex
and consent is generally enough to trigger it.

&gt; &gt; Literalness isn't an answer.
&gt;
&gt; Yes, it is. In fact, sometimes it's the only answer.
&gt;

It isn't one here. Whether you intend it or not, you're maintaining a
duality of position here: you're succeeding in arguing against specific
people here's posts while very carefully trying to avoid the appearance of
doing so - whether this is intentional or merely an accident doesn't
really come into it. It doesn't work. It's getting to me, too, and I would
appreciate it if you would start to discuss specifics rather than
handwaving generalities which can most certainly be reasonably interpreted
as restrictions on how much of my life I should actually be discussing
here.

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

Performance anxiety leads to premature optimisation

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#225: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 19:51:14 by Brenda

Anastasia said:

&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; free to discuss Pratchettesque matters without being drenched by
&gt;&gt; neighbours constantly hurling themselves into the gutter.
&gt;
&gt; Again, and I do not intend to start a flamewar, at all. My word on that.
&gt;
&gt; But.
&gt;
&gt; I specifically and directly am asking you whether my contributions to this
&gt; newsgroup are what you're referring to, in whole or in part.
&gt;
&gt; Can you simply give me an honest answer to this?

Surely, provided you promise to read the whole answer, and not go shooting
off after the first line.

Yes, I am referring to *some* of your contributions, and *some* of many
other people's contributions, and I wouldn't be completely surprised if I
were even referring to *some* of my own contributions.

The important point is that I'm /not/ referring to any single individual.
Nor do I have any desire, authority or motivation to tell people in this
group what they must or must not do. (I mention this obvious fact only
because someone elsethread is clearly ignorant of it.)

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#226: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 19:52:42 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; Peter Ellis said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; He's telling the naughty kids not to talk about [...]
&gt;
&gt; No, I'm not *telling* anyone to do *anything*. Sheesh, can't you READ?
&gt;

But you have snarked at the intelligence of those who choose to do so. You
might not have intended to do so - unfortunately, you're carrying a lot of
cultural baggage around with your arguments, because a good number of
people on this group have been actively oppressed by similar means. I'm
not particularly sure what you're advocating wouldn't be a further
example.

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

Society does not owe people jobs.
Society owes it to itself to find people jobs.

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#227: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case akid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 19:53:59 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; I specifically and directly am asking you whether my contributions to this
&gt; &gt; newsgroup are what you're referring to, in whole or in part.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Can you simply give me an honest answer to this?
&gt;
&gt; Surely, provided you promise to read the whole answer, and not go shooting
&gt; off after the first line.
&gt;
&gt; Yes, I am referring to *some* of your contributions, and *some* of many
&gt; other people's contributions, and I wouldn't be completely surprised if I
&gt; were even referring to *some* of my own contributions.
&gt;

And so we move on to the interesting part. Which ones?

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

Sometimes you gotta fight fire with fire. Most
of the time you just get burnt worse though.

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#228: Re: [F] Reincarnation of the afp-junior list?

Posted on 2006-06-01 19:55:53 by Steve Rogers

&quot;Lister&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:fache&#64;SPAMclara.net" target="_blank">fache&#64;SPAMclara.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:rr3u72djjb6qh7embj78n6kk6i0jc4emcv&#64;4ax.com..." target="_blank">rr3u72djjb6qh7embj78n6kk6i0jc4emcv&#64;4ax.com...</a>
&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 16:18:43 +0100, Karen &lt;<a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Although if I were starting from scratch now, I'd be tempted to
&gt;&gt;consider
&gt;&gt;a moderated web forum format as an option simply because that is a
&gt;&gt;more
&gt;&gt;familiar format to most kids now. (yes I know, burn the heretic!)
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Can I be the first one to object? I've always hated moderation and
&gt; don't wish to subject anyone to it. Mind you, I'm happy to go along
&gt; with anything.

For a kids only forum you need a moderator for sure though considering
how things can degenerate and to protect the kids from those that would
abuse it.

Steve

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#229: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 19:57:15 by Brenda

Anastasia said:

&gt; How close are they?

Sometimes they're not even around. Sometimes they're not interested.
Sometimes they're right here, clustered around me. Those are the times I
switch to one of the techie groups.

&gt; And how long do they glance?

As long as they want. I welcome their interest in what I do. (My newsreader
is not the only window on the screen.)

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#230: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 19:58:29 by Eric Jarvis

Richard Heathfield <a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a> wrote in
&lt;<a href="mailto:3rOdnb6tX5TBiOLZRVnysA&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">3rOdnb6tX5TBiOLZRVnysA&#64;bt.com</a>&gt;:
&gt; Hendrik Schober said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:geminii&#64;tpg.com.au" target="_blank">geminii&#64;tpg.com.au</a> said:
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 14:24:17 +0000, Richard Heathfield
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;I'm not condemning anybody. I'm merely expressing an opinion about some
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;of the content posted here
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; One which has been raised and raised again from time immemorial
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; ...which in itself suggests that there is something here worth
&gt; &gt;&gt; discussing.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; By the same logic murder is worth considering.
&gt; &gt; It wouldn't be done again and again otherwise,
&gt; &gt; after all.
&gt;
&gt; Word games. If many people in the past have expressed a desire for an afp
&gt; which you wouldn't be embarrassed to invite your mother to, then it's not
&gt; unreasonable to at least consider the idea that such a group might be worth
&gt; setting up.
&gt;

Why on earth would I be embarrassed to invite my mother to afp? Apart from
the small details that she hasn't read any of the books yet and doesn't
own a computer.

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
&quot;live fast, die only if strictly necessary&quot;

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#231: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 19:59:51 by Stacie Hanes

Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; free to discuss Pratchettesque matters without being drenched by
&gt;&gt;&gt; neighbours constantly hurling themselves into the gutter.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Again, and I do not intend to start a flamewar, at all. My word on
&gt;&gt; that.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; But.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I specifically and directly am asking you whether my contributions
&gt;&gt; to this newsgroup are what you're referring to, in whole or in
&gt;&gt; part.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Can you simply give me an honest answer to this?
&gt;
&gt; Surely, provided you promise to read the whole answer, and not go
&gt; shooting off after the first line.

Oh, boy. I did read the whole thing, but thanks for the assumption in that
statement.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#232: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:00:33 by Stacie Hanes

Philippa Cowderoy wrote:
&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I specifically and directly am asking you whether my
&gt;&gt;&gt; contributions to this newsgroup are what you're referring to, in
&gt;&gt;&gt; whole or in part.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Can you simply give me an honest answer to this?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Surely, provided you promise to read the whole answer, and not go
&gt;&gt; shooting off after the first line.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Yes, I am referring to *some* of your contributions, and *some* of
&gt;&gt; many other people's contributions, and I wouldn't be completely
&gt;&gt; surprised if I were even referring to *some* of my own
&gt;&gt; contributions.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; And so we move on to the interesting part. Which ones?

Indeed. I've mentioned whips, but I don't recall getting into detail about
what I do in the bedroom.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

Report this message

#233: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:01:34 by Brenda

Anastasia said:

&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I believe you probably were trying to find out whether I wanted you
&gt;&gt; to stop posting to the group (but it isn't what you actually asked).
&gt;
&gt; No, that is not what I asked, nor is it what I want to know.

I wasn't sure. That's why I said &quot;I believe&quot; and &quot;probably&quot;.

&gt; I may quit
&gt; the group, but whether you want me to wouldn't be a factor.

That's bad, and that's good, in that order.

&gt;&gt; I am speaking of the kind of stuff that means the group is being
&gt;&gt; blocked by parental control software, as reported recently by
&gt;&gt; someone else on another thread. We have the opportunity to treat
&gt;&gt; this as a heads-up warning, and to take time to reflect on whether
&gt;&gt; that is the way we want the group to go.
&gt;
&gt; I want clinical specifics.

And I don't. That is, perhaps, a significant point of difference between us.


&gt;&gt;&gt; I ask again, is it my presence to which you refer?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; No.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Literalness isn't an answer.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Yes, it is. In fact, sometimes it's the only answer.
&gt;
&gt; I don't buy that.

I'm not selling it. I'm giving it as my opinion. If you disagree, that's
entirely up to you.


&gt; I and others discuss gender, BDSM, sexuality, sex, and other matters. Do
&gt; you object to this?

Mu.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#234: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:03:52 by Kar98

On 2006-06-01 12:48:26 -0500, &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; said:

&gt; René wrote:
&gt;&gt; I don't do this whole bloggy thing, sorry.
&gt;
&gt; seriously, you can't read a blog? &lt;puzzled&gt;

I can read them alright, sort of, but it just isn't my thing. Yes, I am
that narrow-minded: e-mail for one-on-one communication (IM for instant
feedback), Usenet or Web forums for topic-specific, wide-audience
broadcast with time-delayed feedback, IRC for, well, Internet relay
chat.

I guess that's just me though, nothing to worry about.

Oh gawds, I just figured out what's next: e-mail clients that also do
Usenet (got that already) _and_ blogging and podcasting, too.


--
You can only win at cheerleading by being the last one standing. The
easiest way is by goosing one of the cheerleaders at the bottom of the
pyramid.

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#235: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:05:10 by Eric Jarvis

CCA <a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a> wrote in
&lt;<a href="mailto:1149180343.328661.232100&#64;g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1149180343.328661.232100&#64;g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;:
&gt; René wrote:
&gt;
&gt; [Stacie/Anastasia]
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Nah, it's more like &quot;but she's the only one easily IDable as actual
&gt; &gt; female, and kinda cute&quot;. Not that there is anything wrong with that :D
&gt;
&gt; Plenty of cute females around here, and on #afp too.
&gt;

I think that very much depends on how one defines &quot;cute&quot;. If you include
the range from oddly attractive to stunningly beautiful, then yes. If you
define it as pretty in a non threatening way then no.

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
&quot;live fast, die only if strictly necessary&quot;

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#236: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:05:40 by Andrew Nevill

On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 16:10:25 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt;
wrote:


&gt;As I have already told my friends on RPG.net, I am a balding, portly,
&gt;middleaged redneck named Earl.
&gt;
#103 Deceived AFP.

That should be the next thing on your list.


--
Andrew Nevill B.F. D.W. FdV. Reply address: <a href="mailto:anevill&#64;btopenworld.com" target="_blank">anevill&#64;btopenworld.com</a>
AFPWorshipper to Spooky, AFPfiance to Sarah (Nanny Ogg) &amp; S*****
AFPUncle to James Vaughan. You cannot value friends as pennies,
nor can you replace them as easily (Spooky in email, Aug 2001.)
Discworld Convention 2006. 18 - 26 Aug 2006 Hinckley Island Hotel
Hinckley, UK www.dwcon.org

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#237: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:06:20 by Kar98

On 2006-06-01 13:00:33 -0500, &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; said:

&gt; Indeed. I've mentioned whips, but I don't recall getting into detail
&gt; about what I do in the bedroom.


Bear in mind that this is the South here: A few months ago I used a
leather whip to *SNAP!* remove a &quot;water bug&quot; from the ceiling. Was in
the kitchen though, not in the bedroom.

--
You can only win at cheerleading by being the last one standing. The
easiest way is by goosing one of the cheerleaders at the bottom of the
pyramid.

Report this message

#238: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:08:36 by Torak

Anastasia wrote:
&gt; Torak wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;CCA wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Honestly, I am *not* sure how that happened. (I gotta share that
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;I originally typoed &quot;sore&quot; instead of sure.) [3]
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;I think it's one of those things that just builds up and up, often
&gt;&gt;&gt;without very much encouragement from the poster herself (or
&gt;&gt;&gt;himself, although I can't remember the same happening to a male
&gt;&gt;&gt;poster here.)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Might be worth a try. Could be nice to have a fan club.
&gt;
&gt; &lt;giggle&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I could be the first ordinary Josephine to have my own froup.
&gt; alt.fan.esmeraldus-anastasia-badkitty

I meant *my* fan club!

How about something like alt.fan.Torak-for-president?

(And no, I don't expect to have to run or anything. I just assume that
it'll be so obvious that they rewrite the Constitution especially for me
and send someone suitably high-ranking to ask me to please be their
president. I have high hopes for the autumn.)

Report this message

#239: Re: [I] Afp (dis)content

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:09:30 by jester

On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 17:31:34 GMT, Anastasia
&lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;jester wrote:
&gt;&gt; On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 16:29:27 GMT, Anastasia
&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Guess who models for the pictures.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Well, unless you've sorted out the self-timer, it's not you
&gt;&gt; modelling for yourself 8-)
&gt;
&gt;It is me, you goof.

Goof? How dare you? I'm a highly skilled jester.
I've got certificates and everything.

&gt;The self timer is only a problem when I cuff my hands behind my back.

Let's not go there again right now, eh? 8-)

I'm just wondering how many shots you've got of yourself still rushing to
get into position. One major advantage of digital over film, I guess;
developing is cheaper.

--
Andy Brown
&quot;Always try to do things in chronological order; it's less confusing
that way.&quot;

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#240: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:09:41 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; I and others discuss gender, BDSM, sexuality, sex, and other matters. Do
&gt; &gt; you object to this?
&gt;
&gt; Mu.
&gt;

I fail to see how the question's invalid.

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

'In Ankh-Morpork even the shit have a street to itself...
Truly this is a land of opportunity.' - Detritus, Men at Arms

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#241: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case akid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:09:54 by Torak

Anastasia wrote:
&gt; Graycat wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Funny, my mum actually knows what sex is, I even believe
&gt;&gt;she's had some, at least twice...

That's disgusting! Glad my parents never did anything like that...

(For the benefit of dense people, yes, that's a joke)

&gt; And I know my mum has bought a strapon, although in retrospect I could've
&gt; done without knowing that.

Yes, I can imagine you could.

Report this message

#242: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:10:31 by Brenda

Philippa Cowderoy said:

&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; I believe that to be an evasion.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; It wasn't.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; I also believe you know what I meant.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I believe you probably were trying to find out whether I wanted you to
&gt;&gt; stop posting to the group (but it isn't what you actually asked).
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; There's an old line about assumptions. You may be assuming more than is
&gt; valid here.

No, my first answer was a literal answer to the question, and made no
assumptions. My second answer made it clear that I was talking about
beliefs and probabilities. How am I assuming more than is valid?

&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; Were you, are you, speaking of the subjects and manner of the words I
&gt;&gt; &gt; have posted and the like manner in which others have replied.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I am speaking of the kind of stuff that means the group is being blocked
&gt;&gt; by parental control software, as reported recently by someone else on
&gt;&gt; another thread. We have the opportunity to treat this as a heads-up
&gt;&gt; warning, and to take time to reflect on whether that is the way we want
&gt;&gt; the group to go.
&gt;
&gt; &quot;To go&quot;? We're already here,

True enough. To stay, then.

&gt; and frankly given the way much of that
&gt; software works there's no way to avoid it without stifling conversation
&gt; about a significant part of most participants' lives. That software is
&gt; designed to be exceedingly paranoid - discussion of laws related to sex
&gt; and consent is generally enough to trigger it.

That's an argument to improve parental control software, but I would not be
even remotely surprised if, given the improved software, this group would
still trigger it.

&gt;&gt; &gt; Literalness isn't an answer.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Yes, it is. In fact, sometimes it's the only answer.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; It isn't one here. Whether you intend it or not, you're maintaining a
&gt; duality of position here: you're succeeding in arguing against specific
&gt; people here's posts

Whoa, I rock. I can win arguments without even being in them. I am *not*
arguing against the posts of specific people here.

&gt; while very carefully trying to avoid the appearance of
&gt; doing so - whether this is intentional or merely an accident doesn't
&gt; really come into it.

I am *not* arguing against posts by specific people.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#243: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:12:35 by Stacie Hanes

Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; Anastasia said:

&gt;&gt; I and others discuss gender, BDSM, sexuality, sex, and other
&gt;&gt; matters. Do you object to this?
&gt;
&gt; Mu.

Fine. But it was a genuine question and I wanted an answer.

Generalities get us nowhere. If we're to discuss anything, I want to know
exactly where your boundaries are. It's exactly like the negotiation process
in a BDSM relationship, now that I think on it.

What IS okay and what IS NOT okay.

Is it okay that I talk about my whip collection and that I wear a lot of
leather?

Is it okay tha I talk about being lonely and wanting a girlfriend?

What about not being convinced monogamy is a good thing anynmore?

How about joking about pulling Rocky's bellybutton thread to make his butt
fall off?

What about me and Rocky wearing each other's pants, which, as it happens, we
could literally do--and which I think would be hilarious.

What about discussing whether vaginal intercourse with orgasm is the
definition of sex?

What's okay with you, Richard?

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#244: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:12:50 by Brenda

Philippa Cowderoy said:

&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; I specifically and directly am asking you whether my contributions to
&gt;&gt; &gt; this newsgroup are what you're referring to, in whole or in part.
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; Can you simply give me an honest answer to this?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Surely, provided you promise to read the whole answer, and not go
&gt;&gt; shooting off after the first line.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Yes, I am referring to *some* of your contributions, and *some* of many
&gt;&gt; other people's contributions, and I wouldn't be completely surprised if I
&gt;&gt; were even referring to *some* of my own contributions.
&gt;
&gt; And so we move on to the interesting part. Which ones?

I have no idea. If you want the dirt on my contributions to this group, do a
Google search, and blow the hypocritical lid off my arguments by posting
the worst of it here.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#245: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case akid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:13:13 by Torak

CCA wrote:
&gt; Torak wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;<a href="mailto:geminii&#64;tpg.com.au" target="_blank">geminii&#64;tpg.com.au</a> wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Forgive me if I seem irritated (or don't), but hearing the same damn
&gt;&gt;&gt;stupid things over and over and over again down the years reminds me too
&gt;&gt;&gt;much of working tech support.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;While you're on the subject, can you fix the mug holder on my computer?
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; So *that's* what it's for!

Oh, don't tell me. You've tried stacking those shiny discy things in it,
haven't you? Silly, you'll bugger it up doing that... ;-)

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#246: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case akid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:14:47 by Torak

Peter Ellis wrote:
&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Word games. If many people in the past have expressed a desire for an afp
&gt;&gt; which you wouldn't be embarrassed to invite your mother to, then it's not
&gt;&gt; unreasonable to at least consider the idea that such a group might be
&gt;&gt; worth
&gt;&gt; setting up.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; This is the alt hierarchy, you're free to set up the group if you want.
&gt; I'll
&gt; stick with this one.

Fair point - Richard can set up alt.fan.pratchett.kiddie if he likes,
and see if it gathers enough traffic to be worthwhile, or if - as I
suspect - it becomes yet another repository for spam and a monthly knock
at the emptiness of the last remaining stalwart saying &quot;So everyone's
really gone, then?&quot;

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#247: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:15:17 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; I believe that to be an evasion.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; It wasn't.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; I also believe you know what I meant.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; I believe you probably were trying to find out whether I wanted you to
&gt; &gt;&gt; stop posting to the group (but it isn't what you actually asked).
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; There's an old line about assumptions. You may be assuming more than is
&gt; &gt; valid here.
&gt;
&gt; No, my first answer was a literal answer to the question, and made no
&gt; assumptions. My second answer made it clear that I was talking about
&gt; beliefs and probabilities. How am I assuming more than is valid?
&gt;

Your first answer most likely made the assumption that a literal answer
was either what was intended or else reasonably acceptable.

&gt; &gt; and frankly given the way much of that
&gt; &gt; software works there's no way to avoid it without stifling conversation
&gt; &gt; about a significant part of most participants' lives. That software is
&gt; &gt; designed to be exceedingly paranoid - discussion of laws related to sex
&gt; &gt; and consent is generally enough to trigger it.
&gt;
&gt; That's an argument to improve parental control software, but I would not be
&gt; even remotely surprised if, given the improved software, this group would
&gt; still trigger it.
&gt;

Then could we kindly skip to the meat of the argument, namely which
content you feel is or should be being discussed? Because otherwise all
you're doing is making people who're further from social norms feel
exceedingly uncomfortable.

&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Literalness isn't an answer.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Yes, it is. In fact, sometimes it's the only answer.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; It isn't one here. Whether you intend it or not, you're maintaining a
&gt; &gt; duality of position here: you're succeeding in arguing against specific
&gt; &gt; people here's posts
&gt;
&gt; Whoa, I rock. I can win arguments without even being in them. I am *not*
&gt; arguing against the posts of specific people here.
&gt;

Yes you are. You've even admitted one particular person has made posts
which you're arguing against.

&gt; &gt; while very carefully trying to avoid the appearance of
&gt; &gt; doing so - whether this is intentional or merely an accident doesn't
&gt; &gt; really come into it.
&gt;
&gt; I am *not* arguing against posts by specific people.
&gt;

Yes you are, by virtue of the fact that there are specific posts (which
you are steadfastly refusing to point at) that you are arguing against and
those posts have authors.

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

A problem that's all in your head is still a problem.
Brain damage is but one form of mind damage.

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#248: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:15:58 by Brenda

Eric Jarvis said:

&gt; Richard Heathfield <a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a> wrote in
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:3rOdnb6tX5TBiOLZRVnysA&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">3rOdnb6tX5TBiOLZRVnysA&#64;bt.com</a>&gt;:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Word games. If many people in the past have expressed a desire for an afp
&gt;&gt; which you wouldn't be embarrassed to invite your mother to, then it's not
&gt;&gt; unreasonable to at least consider the idea that such a group might be
&gt;&gt; worth setting up.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Why on earth would I be embarrassed to invite my mother to afp? Apart from
&gt; the small details that she hasn't read any of the books yet and doesn't
&gt; own a computer.

When I stay literal, I'm told literalism isn't good enough.

When I wax lyrical, I'm nit-picked on lyrical details.

&lt;shrug&gt;

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#249: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:19:09 by Brenda

Anastasia said:

&gt;&gt;&gt; Can you simply give me an honest answer to this?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Surely, provided you promise to read the whole answer, and not go
&gt;&gt; shooting off after the first line.
&gt;
&gt; Oh, boy. I did read the whole thing, but thanks for the assumption in that
&gt; statement.

You're welcome.

In case you hadn't noticed, lots of people here read what they expect to
read in my articles, rather than what I actually write. I had no reason to
think you'd be any different, given that you have already plonked me once
because you jumped to a false conclusion about me.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#250: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:21:58 by Eric Jarvis

René <a href="mailto:Kar98&#64;The-Coalition.US" target="_blank">Kar98&#64;The-Coalition.US</a> wrote in &lt;2006060112410925228-
<a href="mailto:Kar98&#64;TheCoalitionUS" target="_blank">Kar98&#64;TheCoalitionUS</a>&gt;:
&gt; On 2006-06-01 12:33:38 -0500, &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; René wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt; On 2006-06-01 11:29:27 -0500, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; said:
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Professionally, I'm now up to my neck in a Gender &amp; Sexuality
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; themed sf/fantasy academic conference.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Well, I'm sure Johnny Ringo will come up as a topic. Made me kinda
&gt; &gt;&gt; quit reading The Council Wars and prevented me from starting
&gt; &gt;&gt; getting into that other series (not Alldenata) of his in first place.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Tell me more. I'm not familiar with any of that. Could you do it by
&gt; &gt; leaving a comment on my blog?
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; esmeraldus.blogspot.com
&gt;
&gt; I don't do this whole bloggy thing, sorry. E-mail or here?
&gt;

Here. I know the author in question from another group, but haven't read
any of his books as yet.

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
&quot;live fast, die only if strictly necessary&quot;

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#251: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:22:36 by Brenda

Philippa Cowderoy said:

&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; I and others discuss gender, BDSM, sexuality, sex, and other matters.
&gt;&gt; &gt; Do you object to this?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Mu.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I fail to see how the question's invalid.

If I say &quot;yes&quot;, some people will inevitably draw certain erroneous
conclusions about me. And if I say &quot;no&quot;, again, some people (possibly the
same people in some cases) will inevitably draw certain other erroneous
conclusions about me.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#252: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:25:08 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; I and others discuss gender, BDSM, sexuality, sex, and other matters.
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Do you object to this?
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Mu.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; I fail to see how the question's invalid.
&gt;
&gt; If I say &quot;yes&quot;, some people will inevitably draw certain erroneous
&gt; conclusions about me. And if I say &quot;no&quot;, again, some people (possibly the
&gt; same people in some cases) will inevitably draw certain other erroneous
&gt; conclusions about me.
&gt;

That's not the question being invalid. It's you failing to provide a
sufficiently detailed answer.

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

&quot;My religion says so&quot; explains your beliefs. But it doesn't explain
why I should hold them as well, let alone be restricted by them.

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#253: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case akid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:29:38 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Yes, I am referring to *some* of your contributions, and *some* of many
&gt; &gt;&gt; other people's contributions, and I wouldn't be completely surprised if I
&gt; &gt;&gt; were even referring to *some* of my own contributions.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; And so we move on to the interesting part. Which ones?
&gt;
&gt; I have no idea. If you want the dirt on my contributions to this group, do a
&gt; Google search, and blow the hypocritical lid off my arguments by posting
&gt; the worst of it here.
&gt;

I'm not particularly bothered about your own posts, nor am I interested in
hunting for hypocrisy. Do you truly have no idea as to which kinds of
contribution are being discussed? If you do have an idea, please
elaborate - and preferably without resorting to an undefined 'gutter' or
similar concept.

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

A problem that's all in your head is still a problem.
Brain damage is but one form of mind damage.

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#254: Re: [I] Afp (dis)content

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:29:38 by Stacie Hanes

jester wrote:
&gt; On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 17:31:34 GMT, Anastasia
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; jester wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 16:29:27 GMT, Anastasia
&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Guess who models for the pictures.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Well, unless you've sorted out the self-timer, it's not you
&gt;&gt;&gt; modelling for yourself 8-)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; It is me, you goof.
&gt;
&gt; Goof? How dare you? I'm a highly skilled jester.
&gt; I've got certificates and everything.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; The self timer is only a problem when I cuff my hands behind my
&gt;&gt; back.
&gt;
&gt; Let's not go there again right now, eh? 8-)
&gt;
&gt; I'm just wondering how many shots you've got of yourself still
&gt; rushing to get into position. One major advantage of digital over
&gt; film, I guess; developing is cheaper.

Just one. In a case where I had someone with me, as a matter of fact. I set
up the tripod and timer, and tripped on my way back to the pose. I couldn't
stop laughing for 5 minutes.

Usually, it's more that I'm almost in pose and it's just blrurry because I'm
not still yet.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#255: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:29:45 by alec

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:tMmdnQVZBeGgg-LZRVny2A&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">tMmdnQVZBeGgg-LZRVny2A&#64;bt.com</a>&gt;, <a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>
says...

&gt; Yeah, I know - but I'm not talking about moderation (a la censorship). I'm
&gt; talking about culture change, so that people are free to discuss
&gt; Pratchettesque matters without being drenched by neighbours constantly
&gt; hurling themselves into the gutter. And you may be right about afp not
&gt; being the place for that; perhaps there are insufficiently many people who
&gt; are capable of holding a conversation without having a security gutter
&gt; within easy reach. I hope and believe that's false, but I could be wrong.

I would find such an implicit restriction a serious constraint on my
posting habits, and it would probably lead me to drop the group. I do
not often post on sexual, scatological etc. subjects, but I do not want
to have to think twice before every posting before I hit the send
button. I like this bean an adult newsgroup int hat everybody is assumed
to be old enough to decide whether the newsgroup's standard of posting
is acceptable to them and to unsubscribe if not.

The biggest problems I have with any posts are lack of originality. The
recent flirty posts, and the spider posts, and the pillow fights, while
original at first, got very repetitive. The same is true about the
religious/ethical megathreads: after an initial exchange of views, they
setteled down to people on all N sides repeating their constant
positions in ever changing words, hoping that they will somehow cut
through the incomprehension of their opponents.

Sex is inherently one of the funniest subject to talk about. Not as
funny as the amount it is talked about, so that most jokes about sex are
unoriginal. But the sheer complecity and ridiculousness of human
courting and mating behaviour give lot of opportunity for wit, and I for
one would not want genuine wit to be stifled by the fear that a child
might see it (possible), understhand it (improbable) and be harmed by it
(very unlikely).

I was very happy to let my son, aged 10-11, read Pratchett's &quot;adult&quot;
books. I reckon that if he understood the adult themes, it was about
time he did, and if he didn't, it was about thie he did. IMO, the adult
themes are dealt with in a very ethical way, and it is the ethics rather
than the mechanics that worry me.

I know that when I read Mary Renault's &quot;The Bull From The Sea&quot; at that
age, the adult content went right over my head. I didn't know why
Theasus wanted to visit Ariadne in the middle of the night; it was just
one of those wierd things adults do. But it made the story move on, so I
enjoyed the telling of the tale.

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#256: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:32:32 by Steve Rogers

&lt;<a href="mailto:geminii&#64;tpg.com.au" target="_blank">geminii&#64;tpg.com.au</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:mj5u7252nd6v6mrjslcomi6sdnpi6cd3m6&#64;4ax.com..." target="_blank">mj5u7252nd6v6mrjslcomi6sdnpi6cd3m6&#64;4ax.com...</a>
&gt; On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 18:13:52 +0200, Torak &lt;<a href="mailto:perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt;
&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;<a href="mailto:geminii&#64;tpg.com.au" target="_blank">geminii&#64;tpg.com.au</a> wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Forgive me if I seem irritated (or don't), but hearing the same damn
&gt;&gt;&gt; stupid things over and over and over again down the years reminds me
&gt;&gt;&gt; too
&gt;&gt;&gt; much of working tech support.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;While you're on the subject, can you fix the mug holder on my
&gt;&gt;computer?
&gt;
&gt; Sure I can! UKP800, cash, in advance.

I'm out of work at the moment so UKP799.99 same terms

Steve

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#257: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:32:41 by Brenda

Philippa Cowderoy said:

&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; That's an argument to improve parental control software, but I would not
&gt;&gt; be even remotely surprised if, given the improved software, this group
&gt;&gt; would still trigger it.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Then could we kindly skip to the meat of the argument, namely which
&gt; content you feel is or should be being discussed? Because otherwise all
&gt; you're doing is making people who're further from social norms feel
&gt; exceedingly uncomfortable.

Up to now, it's been those who are less far from what you call &quot;social
norms&quot; who have been feeling uncomfortable. But you seem to suggest that's
okay, because such people's opinions don't count.

[...]
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; Whether you intend it or not, you're maintaining a
&gt;&gt; &gt; duality of position here: you're succeeding in arguing against specific
&gt;&gt; &gt; people here's posts
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Whoa, I rock. I can win arguments without even being in them. I am *not*
&gt;&gt; arguing against the posts of specific people here.
&gt;
&gt; Yes you are.

No, I'm not.

&gt; You've even admitted one particular person has made posts
&gt; which you're arguing against.

So what? Every post is written by /someone/ - and many people here post
stuff which would trip even a clueful parental control program. So when one
individual person asks &quot;have I ever posted stuff you think is OTT?&quot;, it's
hardly surprising if the answer is &quot;yes&quot;. That doesn't mean I'm
witch-hunting that person.

&gt;&gt; I am *not* arguing against posts by specific people.
&gt;
&gt; Yes you are,

Nope.

&gt; by virtue of the fact that there are specific posts

Really? Which ones?

&gt; (which
&gt; you are steadfastly refusing to point at)

If I point at a specific article, we will get bogged down in discussion of
that one article - as if we're not already mired enough in nitpicking! I'm
talking about a general culture, not a particular article by articles by a
particular person.


&gt; that you are arguing against and those posts have authors.

All posts have authors. So what?

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#258: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:37:18 by Brenda

Alec Cawley said:

&gt; The biggest problems I have with any posts are lack of originality. The
&gt; recent flirty posts, and the spider posts, and the pillow fights, while
&gt; original at first, got very repetitive. The same is true about the
&gt; religious/ethical megathreads: after an initial exchange of views, they
&gt; setteled down to people on all N sides repeating their constant
&gt; positions in ever changing words, hoping that they will somehow cut
&gt; through the incomprehension of their opponents.

Yes, and that is now beginning to happen in /this/ thread.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#259: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:38:09 by Stacie Hanes

Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; Eric Jarvis said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield <a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a> wrote in
&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:3rOdnb6tX5TBiOLZRVnysA&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">3rOdnb6tX5TBiOLZRVnysA&#64;bt.com</a>&gt;:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Word games. If many people in the past have expressed a desire
&gt;&gt;&gt; for an afp which you wouldn't be embarrassed to invite your
&gt;&gt;&gt; mother to, then it's not unreasonable to at least consider the
&gt;&gt;&gt; idea that such a group might be worth setting up.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Why on earth would I be embarrassed to invite my mother to afp?
&gt;&gt; Apart from the small details that she hasn't read any of the books
&gt;&gt; yet and doesn't own a computer.
&gt;
&gt; When I stay literal, I'm told literalism isn't good enough.
&gt;
&gt; When I wax lyrical, I'm nit-picked on lyrical details.
&gt;
&gt; &lt;shrug&gt;

I think, seriously, that some questions require one kind of response, and
others require the other kind.

It's knowing the difference, perhaps by an exchange of several posts.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#260: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:39:11 by Stacie Hanes

René wrote:
&gt; On 2006-06-01 13:00:33 -0500, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; said:
&gt;&gt; Indeed. I've mentioned whips, but I don't recall getting into
&gt;&gt; detail about what I do in the bedroom.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Bear in mind that this is the South here: A few months ago I used a
&gt; leather whip to *SNAP!* remove a &quot;water bug&quot; from the ceiling. Was
&gt; in the kitchen though, not in the bedroom.

Well, if you're gonna be like that, I've gone into clinical detail about
being in the shower.

Sorry!

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

Report this message

#261: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:41:14 by Peter Ellis

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; Peter Ellis said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; He's telling the naughty kids not to talk about [...]
&gt;
&gt; No, I'm not *telling* anyone to do *anything*. Sheesh, can't you READ?

OK, you're *asking* the naughty kids not to talk about naughty things,
because grown-ups never flirt, or talk about sex.

It's still just as stupid. &quot;Why can't we all only talk about the things I
deem worthy of being talked about&quot; is not an attitude that works on any
unmoderated group.

I don't want my kids exposed to prudery. Please do not discuss the fact
that you feel we should not discuss particular subjects on afp.

Peter

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#262: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:41:23 by Orjan Westin

Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; <a href="mailto:geminii&#64;tpg.com.au" target="_blank">geminii&#64;tpg.com.au</a> said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; and every time has been shot down to die festering in the gutter.
&gt;
&gt; Yes, it's much easier to shoot down a good idea than to make it work.

I think the shooting down refers to showing it to be a bad or unfeasible
idea. This is an unmoderated group, so what you are suggesting, like
others have done before you, is self-moderation. Fine. I would hope we
all practice that to a greater or lesser extent.

But... What governs our self-moderation is not a set of fixed
guidelines. On alt.books.pratchett, the group charter, FAQ and regulars
all agree that it is a strictly on-topic group. Those who stray
recieves a (generally) gentle reminder - on the group or in e-mail -
that they should stick to the subject of Pratchett books. It works
there, because there is a consensus.

But here? It's a conversation group for the fans of Terry. Who gets to
decide what is appropriate subjects and manners of posting?

Well, in theory, we as a group do. That's pretty much what most [M]
threads are about. But as you've noticed, people have very varying
notions of what's acceptable.

Consensus on afp? Ever tried herding cats?

There is actually a broad consensus on things that are frowned upon,
like excessive use of profanities, excessive posting without content,
personal attacks (and while you might want to argue that point I remind
you that on more than one occasion people have objected to this when
it's been directed at you, as well as many others), and so on.

We try to talk civilly and treat each other as people, not abstract
entities on the other end of the internet. That's one of the things afp
as a community prides itself on - it's a friendly place. On occasion,
that pride is very misplaced, and it isn't a friendly place at all, but
that generally leads to huge [M] threads after which things calm down
again.

But that's about as far consensus can be reached. Historically, at
least. You might be able to affect a culture change.

&gt;&gt; There should really be a FAQ on it by now...
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Q: Wouldn't it be a REALLY NEAT idea to somehow wave a magic wand and
&gt;&gt; change afp, a group which has been firmly adult-oriented,
&gt;&gt; adult-rated, and adult-inhabited since its inception, into a G-rated
&gt;&gt; kiddie paddling pool?
&gt;
&gt; If it's so adult-oriented, adult-rated (whatever that means), and
&gt; adult-inhabited, it ought to be possible to discuss the matter in an
&gt; adult way. Please try.

Some of us do. Come to think of it, I posted something just yesterday,
in which I tried to discuss the issue. It got one reply, which focussed
on one aspect, so I guess nobody was very interested in the other
aspects I raised.

Thing is, we don't know what you (generic) are talking about.

Too much innuendo? Yes, a lot of people have said that. It seems we
have given us a bit of a telling off, which is a kind of encouragment to
self-censorship, if you will.

But a moderate amount of innuendo? Yes, no, maybe? As long as it's
tastefully done, perhaps? According to whose taste?

Can we talk about sex at all? In a mature manner, of course. Would
discussions about trans- bi- and homosexuality be allowed? Can we talk
about sexual attractions and urges - both your own towards others, and
that of others towards you - and how to deal with them?

What I'm getting at here is the question of whether it's the subject of
sex that is unwelcome, or the &quot;immature&quot; way of treating it, with
nudge-nudge-wink-wink and hur-hur-hur.

How about other contentious subjects, like child-rearing, religion,
abortion, ID cards, invasion of oil-rich countries, or feminism? Are we
allowed to discuss that kind of subjects? You know, the sort of things
that concern mature grown-ups.

We don't know your mother, and we don't know what subjects, expressions,
opinions or tones she would object to.

&gt; Incidentally, we probably differ in our interpretations of the word
&gt; &quot;adult&quot;. I use it to mean much the same as &quot;grown-up&quot;, &quot;mature&quot;, etc,
&gt; whereas you seem to think it means &quot;warning: contains pornography&quot;.

In a post yesterday, you said you couldn't let your kids see afp because
&lt;quote&gt;
the level of so-called &quot;adult&quot; talk is way too high.
&lt;/quote&gt;

I wrote in my reply to that post that I assumed that by &quot;adult&quot; you
meant &quot;concerning sex&quot;, which was how I read it. Are you saying there
is too much grown-up talk here? I can see why kids wouldn't be
interested then.

Oh, sorry, you said /so-called/ &quot;adult&quot;. Am I right in assuming that
you use this phrase to denote the kind of meaning you suggest Steve
uses?

&quot;adult&quot;=porn?

Whereas that usage is relatively new, it is now established as an
existing, current and valid meaning. Especially on the internet.

I haven't seen anyone post any porn on afp, though. I'm probably one of
those who have come closest to do so, and I've received flame e-mails
from lurkers for that. That was... unpleasant. I'd do it again,
though.

Orjan
--
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
Fiction, Thoughts and Software
<a href="http://www.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://www.cunobaros.com/</a>

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#263: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:41:55 by Stacie Hanes

Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Can you simply give me an honest answer to this?
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Surely, provided you promise to read the whole answer, and not go
&gt;&gt;&gt; shooting off after the first line.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Oh, boy. I did read the whole thing, but thanks for the assumption
&gt;&gt; in that statement.
&gt;
&gt; You're welcome.
&gt;
&gt; In case you hadn't noticed, lots of people here read what they
&gt; expect to read in my articles, rather than what I actually write. I
&gt; had no reason to think you'd be any different, given that you have
&gt; already plonked me once because you jumped to a false conclusion
&gt; about me.

No, I did not plonk you. I killfiled you, and many moons later mentioned it.

And I killfiled you because you discuss religion, and I wasn't interested in
reading it.

M assumptions about the particulars of your religiosity turned out to be
half-true, half not so much. So this time, I didn't killfile you, I just
stopped reading the religion thread, because I still wasn't interested in
it.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#264: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:43:38 by Stacie Hanes

Alec Cawley wrote:
&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:tMmdnQVZBeGgg-LZRVny2A&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">tMmdnQVZBeGgg-LZRVny2A&#64;bt.com</a>&gt;, <a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>
&gt; says...
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Yeah, I know - but I'm not talking about moderation (a la
&gt;&gt; censorship). I'm talking about culture change, so that people are
&gt;&gt; free to discuss Pratchettesque matters without being drenched by
&gt;&gt; neighbours constantly hurling themselves into the gutter. And you

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; I would find such an implicit restriction a serious constraint on my
&gt; posting habits, and it would probably lead me to drop the group.

I agree with Alec 100% in this matter, as I often do.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#265: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:50:07 by Brenda

Anastasia said:

&gt; No, I did not plonk you. I killfiled you

Sorry, I thought you knew what &quot;plonk&quot; means. My apologies. It is not a
common word, after all (except on Usenet).

See <a href="http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/P/plonk.html" target="_blank">http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/P/plonk.html</a> for further information.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#266: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:54:11 by Stacie Hanes

Orjan Westin wrote:
&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:geminii&#64;tpg.com.au" target="_blank">geminii&#64;tpg.com.au</a> said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; and every time has been shot down to die festering in the gutter.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Yes, it's much easier to shoot down a good idea than to make it
&gt;&gt; work.
&gt;
&gt; I think the shooting down refers to showing it to be a bad or
&gt; unfeasible idea. This is an unmoderated group, so what you are
&gt; suggesting, like others have done before you, is self-moderation. Fine. I
&gt; would hope we all practice that to a greater or lesser
&gt; extent.

&gt; &lt;Snip&gt;

&gt; There is actually a broad consensus on things that are frowned upon,
&gt; like excessive use of profanities, excessive posting without
&gt; content, personal attacks (and while you might want to argue that
&gt; point I remind you that on more than one occasion people have
&gt; objected to this when it's been directed at you, as well as many
&gt; others), and so on.

&lt;Snip&gt;

&gt; Thing is, we don't know what you (generic) are talking about.

I've asked. He said that the desire for clinical specifics was a difference
between us. I interpret that, correct me if I'm wrong, please, as a desire
NOT to say exactly what is objectionable.

&gt; But a moderate amount of innuendo? Yes, no, maybe? As long as it's
&gt; tastefully done, perhaps? According to whose taste?

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; We don't know your mother, and we don't know what subjects,
&gt; expressions, opinions or tones she would object to.

My mother tells dirty jokes. And I'm pretty sure she has sex with women.


&gt; I haven't seen anyone post any porn on afp, though. I'm probably
&gt; one of those who have come closest to do so, and I've received
&gt; flame e-mails from lurkers for that. That was... unpleasant. I'd
&gt; do it again, though.
&gt;

And I take &quot;sexy but not sexual&quot; pictures of various people, including me.
Several afpers have seen some of them, at least one afper has seen all of
them. If I am asked nicely, I show people the pictures. It took dozens of
people telling me I was an artist before I started believing it, but now I
believe it.

Would you like to see the pictures? One of them that I made last night is
posed like the Venus de Milo. Everything pubic is hidden by water (digital
water), and one breast is hidden, but one breast is visible. It doesn't show
my face.

I wouldn't hesitate to send it to anyone here who wants to see it.

Some of my posts have embarrasses me slightly, for various reasons, but this
really isn't one of them.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#267: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:54:24 by steelcat

In article &lt;8BFfg.760$<a href="mailto:jB5.449&#64;newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">jB5.449&#64;newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
&quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that there is a much-expressed desire for a Pratchett fan group
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; which people needn't be embarrassed to read while their family are
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; in the room.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; What size font are you reading in?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; 12-point courier. Large enough for me to read, and therefore
&gt;&gt; certainly large enough for younger eyes to read.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Or do they just read over your shoulder?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; They don't need to. It's a big monitor, and it faces the room.
&gt;
&gt;How close are they? And how long do they glance? Seriously, I do not get
&gt;this problem.

And shouldn't they be taught that it's extremely rude to read someone
else's correspondence or reading matter, whether that's on a computer
screen, newspaper, book or letter?

Cat.
--
Jazz-Loving Soul Mate and Tolerable Frog to CCA
&quot;I'd like to be the king of all Londinium and wear a shiny hat.&quot;
Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity

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#268: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:55:16 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; That's an argument to improve parental control software, but I would not
&gt; &gt;&gt; be even remotely surprised if, given the improved software, this group
&gt; &gt;&gt; would still trigger it.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Then could we kindly skip to the meat of the argument, namely which
&gt; &gt; content you feel is or should be being discussed? Because otherwise all
&gt; &gt; you're doing is making people who're further from social norms feel
&gt; &gt; exceedingly uncomfortable.
&gt;
&gt; Up to now, it's been those who are less far from what you call &quot;social
&gt; norms&quot; who have been feeling uncomfortable. But you seem to suggest that's
&gt; okay, because such people's opinions don't count.
&gt;

*I CAN'T TELL IF YOU'RE TRYING TO DISCUSS WHETHER I SHOULD HAVE TO HIDE
WHO I AM ON THIS NEWSGROUP, AND YOU ARE STEADFASTLY REFUSING TO HELP
ANSWER THAT QUESTION*. Those closer to the &quot;social norms&quot; are not going
through that. In fact, they're being asked what it is that's making them
uncomfortable - that's far from suggesting their opinions don't count!

FWIW, up to now those of us further from the norms have spent most of our
lives being made to feel uncomfortable about it in ways that're frequently
hard for someone closer to the norms to understand. It doesn't matter
which particular direction we're distant in right now: you're hitting all
of us, whether our particular direction's been making others uncomfortable
or not.

&gt; So what? Every post is written by /someone/ - and many people here post
&gt; stuff which would trip even a clueful parental control program. So when one
&gt; individual person asks &quot;have I ever posted stuff you think is OTT?&quot;, it's
&gt; hardly surprising if the answer is &quot;yes&quot;. That doesn't mean I'm
&gt; witch-hunting that person.
&gt;

Quite. Witch hunts aren't about people, they're about witches. Some people
here are concerned that you may consider things that're important to them
to be witchcraft.

&gt; If I point at a specific article, we will get bogged down in discussion of
&gt; that one article - as if we're not already mired enough in nitpicking! I'm
&gt; talking about a general culture, not a particular article by articles by a
&gt; particular person.
&gt;

You're framing the entire culture while refusing to discuss which parts
are actually being talked about and thus concerning everyone who cares
about an aspect that *could* be being talked about.

Please understand: you are seriously worrying people here. This is not a
game, and your attempts to steer the conversation away from places you're
not comfortable you can represent yourself accurately are causing genuine
distress.

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

Ivanova is always right.
I will listen to Ivanova.
I will not ignore Ivanova's recomendations.
Ivanova is God.
And, if this ever happens again, Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out!

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#269: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:56:46 by Stacie Hanes

Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; No, I did not plonk you. I killfiled you
&gt;
&gt; Sorry, I thought you knew what &quot;plonk&quot; means. My apologies. It is
&gt; not a common word, after all (except on Usenet).
&gt;
&gt; See <a href="http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/P/plonk.html" target="_blank">http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/P/plonk.html</a> for further
&gt; information.

Excuse me, but I am using the definition we've discussed here. There was
quite a lot of plonking lately, and according to another definition, a quiet
killfiling is a gentle way to do it, and

PLONK

is a public humiliation.

So I argue that I know what plonk means at least as much as you do. We may
be using different definitions, but I challenge you to prove that yours is
held by more people than mine.


--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#270: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 20:59:39 by Gid Holyoake

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:Pine.WNT.4.61.0606011927560.1072&#64;SLINKY" target="_blank">Pine.WNT.4.61.0606011927560.1072&#64;SLINKY</a>&gt;, Philippa Cowderoy
generously decided to share with us..

Snippetry..

&gt; If you do have an idea, please
&gt; elaborate - and preferably without resorting to an undefined 'gutter' or
&gt; similar concept.

If you can define the gutter it might help some of those of us who are
trying to get that high..

Gid (I used to dream of living in a gutter)

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#271: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 21:01:42 by Graycat

On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 17:05:53 +0000, Richard Heathfield
&lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; jotted down:


&gt;Yeah, I know - but I'm not talking about moderation (a la censorship). I'm
&gt;talking about culture change, so that people are free to discuss
&gt;Pratchettesque matters without being drenched by neighbours constantly
&gt;hurling themselves into the gutter. And you may be right about afp not
&gt;being the place for that; perhaps there are insufficiently many people who
&gt;are capable of holding a conversation without having a security gutter
&gt;within easy reach. I hope and believe that's false, but I could be wrong.

There's a problem though - what people consider to be &quot;in
the gutter&quot; is different from person to person. I can't,
offhand, think of anything sex-related I've read on afp I
would be ashamed to let someone in my family see. Some I
find embarassing/cringeworthy [1], but that's because of the
quality of the jokes rather than the sexual content.

I also think that sex a natural and healthy part of adult
life, and as such something that shouldn't be hidden away.
Open dialogue with children is, imo, the best way to ensure
they don't get any funny ideas. Children are exposed to
sexual innuendo _everywhere_ nowadays, most of it, probably,
passes them right by since they don't have the experiences
neccesary to understand.

I also don't see mentions of bondange any worse than
mentions of under-the-covers-with-the-lights-out-missionary
sex.

Violence, I find a lot more harmful than sex. Can we ban
people from suggesting blasting burglars to bits? Or burning
heretics? Or this incessant talk about swords?

So, where does the gutter begin? What is allowed? Whose
morals do we rule by?

[1] the covered in seamen pun in the tale springs to mind...
though, probably wouldn't to a child.
--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
The Oswalds DW casting award - Vote Now!
<a href="http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html</a>

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#272: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 21:07:58 by Brenda

Orjan Westin said:

&gt; Consensus on afp? Ever tried herding cats?

Yes. Oddly, I've had a certain degree of success in this! But I know what
you are saying, yes.

&gt; There is actually a broad consensus on things that are frowned upon,
&gt; like excessive use of profanities, excessive posting without content,
&gt; personal attacks (and while you might want to argue that point I remind
&gt; you that on more than one occasion people have objected to this when
&gt; it's been directed at you,

I am well aware of this, and I am grateful to those who have so objected.

&gt; We try to talk civilly

....but don't always succeed.

&gt; and treat each other as people,

There, at least, I must say I think afp does pretty well.

&gt;&gt; If it's so adult-oriented, adult-rated (whatever that means), and
&gt;&gt; adult-inhabited, it ought to be possible to discuss the matter in an
&gt;&gt; adult way. Please try.
&gt;
&gt; Some of us do. Come to think of it, I posted something just yesterday,
&gt; in which I tried to discuss the issue. It got one reply, which focussed
&gt; on one aspect, so I guess nobody was very interested in the other
&gt; aspects I raised.

Or they simply missed it in the welter of posts.

&gt; What I'm getting at here is the question of whether it's the subject of
&gt; sex that is unwelcome, or the &quot;immature&quot; way of treating it, with
&gt; nudge-nudge-wink-wink and hur-hur-hur.

In an excellent article elsethread, Eric Jarvis suggested that we adopt the
same tenor as the DW books. I think that would be very appropriate, and a
reasonable compromise for all those concerned.


&gt; How about other contentious subjects, like child-rearing, religion,
&gt; abortion, ID cards, invasion of oil-rich countries, or feminism? Are we
&gt; allowed to discuss that kind of subjects?

Firstly, it isn't a question of &quot;allowed&quot; or &quot;not allowed&quot;.

They're important issues, often controversial, and there's some question
from /other/ people here (not me) about whether they should be discussed at
all here in afp - but I personally have no problem with those subjects.

&gt; We don't know your mother, and we don't know what subjects, expressions,
&gt; opinions or tones she would object to.

Call it a metaphor. Douglas Adams would have known what I was talking about.


&gt;&gt; Incidentally, we probably differ in our interpretations of the word
&gt;&gt; &quot;adult&quot;. I use it to mean much the same as &quot;grown-up&quot;, &quot;mature&quot;, etc,
&gt;&gt; whereas you seem to think it means &quot;warning: contains pornography&quot;.
&gt;
&gt; In a post yesterday, you said you couldn't let your kids see afp because
&gt; &lt;quote&gt;
&gt; the level of so-called &quot;adult&quot; talk is way too high.
&gt; &lt;/quote&gt;

Yes, and note the quotes around the word &quot;adult&quot;, indicating that I thought
the word was being misused.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#273: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 21:09:03 by jester

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 19:55:16 +0100, Philippa Cowderoy
&lt;<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt; So what? Every post is written by /someone/ - and many people here post
&gt;&gt; stuff which would trip even a clueful parental control program. So when one
&gt;&gt; individual person asks &quot;have I ever posted stuff you think is OTT?&quot;, it's
&gt;&gt; hardly surprising if the answer is &quot;yes&quot;. That doesn't mean I'm
&gt;&gt; witch-hunting that person.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;Quite. Witch hunts aren't about people, they're about witches. Some people
&gt;here are concerned that you may consider things that're important to them
&gt;to be witchcraft.

At this moment, I'm wondering what the witches reading the group feel
about the use of the phrase witch-hunt, as it seems to me to include an
assumptoin that anything to do with witches and witchcraft is
automatically a bad thing. (Unless, of course the witches get a turn at
Richard-hunting)

&gt;
&gt;&gt; If I point at a specific article, we will get bogged down in discussion of
&gt;&gt; that one article - as if we're not already mired enough in nitpicking! I'm
&gt;&gt; talking about a general culture, not a particular article by articles by a
&gt;&gt; particular person.
&gt;&gt;

I don't recall you being asked for a specific article, just being asked
which topics are giving you a problem. Is there any chance of you
answering that question? (And I'd appreciate something other than yes, no
or mu in answer to that)

&gt;Please understand: you are seriously worrying people here. This is not a

s/seriously worrying/annoying and\/or winding up, possibly trolling/

--
Andy Brown
Unix is an operating system, OS/2 is half an operating system, Windows
is a shell, and DOS is a boot partition virus.
-- Peter H. Coffin

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#274: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 21:12:41 by Karen

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:Pine.LNX.4.64.0606011940260.15778&#64;hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk" target="_blank">Pine.LNX.4.64.0606011940260.15778&#64;hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk</a>&gt;,
Peter Ellis &lt;<a href="mailto:pjie2&#64;cam.ac.uk" target="_blank">pjie2&#64;cam.ac.uk</a>&gt; writes
&gt;
&gt;On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt; Peter Ellis said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; He's telling the naughty kids not to talk about [...]
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; No, I'm not *telling* anyone to do *anything*. Sheesh, can't you READ?
&gt;
&gt;OK, you're *asking* the naughty kids not to talk about naughty things,
&gt;because grown-ups never flirt, or talk about sex.
&gt;

Where?

I've just read this thread from the top again and it is entirely
possible I'm missing posts but I can't see anywhere that Richard has
actually proposed censoring or moderating the newsgroup or asking people
not to post on sexual topics. I've seen lots of people assume that this
is what he means but I can't find him actually saying it anywhere.

In fact I read his initial post as making much the same comment that
eric made or that I made in different words without being bollocked for
it, or that I've just seen Alec make in different words again and Orjan
include in different words yet again. Its a general tone or lack of
balance or excess of 'y type posts' which sometimes just makes the group
vastly less interesting and readable until the phase has passed.

None of these posts say anything new, especially mine. Its all the old
'think before you post, be proud of what you post, you own your words'
type stuff which I wouldn't have thought was so very radical. I've seen
Stacie and others participating in the threads agree that they could do
with throttling back. It seems to me like people are mainly in violent
agreement.

You know my views on the futility of moderating of alt. groups and that
is before you even get to my other objections to moderating alt and afp
in particular but I've not seen anything to suggest Richard is asking
for that.


&gt;It's still just as stupid. &quot;Why can't we all only talk about the things I
&gt;deem worthy of being talked about&quot; is not an attitude that works on any
&gt;unmoderated group.
&gt;
&gt;I don't want my kids exposed to prudery. Please do not discuss the
&gt;fact that you feel we should not discuss particular subjects on afp.


Peter, where has he done this? Maybe I've just missed that post somehow
and maybe Richard does have plans for proposing a moderated or censored
group but at the moment I haven't seen that suggested *by him*, all I've
seen is other people telling me this is what Richard means. Well I'm
not telepathic, I don't have the advantage of being able to read his
thoughts so I need to see them written down.


--
Karen/hypatia <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>
New? Check <a href="http://www.lspace.org" target="_blank">http://www.lspace.org</a>
Confused? Mail the Clue Fairies at <a href="mailto:afp-help&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">afp-help&#64;lspace.org</a>
Discworld Convention 2006, August 18-21, <a href="http://www.dwcon.org" target="_blank">http://www.dwcon.org</a>

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#275: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 21:20:48 by Kar98

On 2006-06-01 13:21:58 -0500, Eric Jarvis &lt;<a href="mailto:usenet&#64;ericjarvis.co.uk" target="_blank">usenet&#64;ericjarvis.co.uk</a>&gt; said:

&gt; René <a href="mailto:Kar98&#64;The-Coalition.US" target="_blank">Kar98&#64;The-Coalition.US</a> wrote in &lt;2006060112410925228-
&gt; <a href="mailto:Kar98&#64;TheCoalitionUS" target="_blank">Kar98&#64;TheCoalitionUS</a>&gt;:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Johnny Ringo
&gt;&gt; E-mail or here?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Here. I know the author in question from another group, but haven't
&gt; read any of his books as yet.

OK, we're talking about books again now ;) Military SF/F, to be specific
His Web page is here: <a href="http://johnringo.com/" target="_blank">http://johnringo.com/</a>

The books touching (as in, milking it for all it's worth) the topic of
BDSM, dom/sub relations and multimiscuity are:

_The Council War series_ (especially the relationships of Paul, baddie,
council member and his slave concubines on one hand; and Major
Wossname, good guy(?) and his lovers, especially one of Paul's former
slave/concubines.
Plot: the magnificent future loses power and mankind who has hitherto
lived in a fantasy utopia is plunged back into the pre-industrial
times. Hilarity ensues.


And to my great annoyance (in retrospect), I also read the first book
(Ghost) of what I think is going to be an on-going series (_Paladin of
Shadows_), too.
Plot: Former SeAL cashes in on GI bill, but college life is suddenly
interrupted when...ends up fighting a battalion of Arab terrorists with
only the help of three naked co-eds who reluctanly answer to the names
âÂÂBambi,â âÂÂThumperâ and âÂÂCotton Tail.â Trash but fun. I like trash. And
fun. Got tired of the John Galt-like sex preaching though. I like to
fuck. I don't enjoy somebody else droning on endlessly about it. Come
to think of it, no matter what the genre or topic, I don't want to
&quot;hear the author preaching&quot;

Only lightly touching the topic are the books in the Legacy of the
_Aldenata_ series. First three books are great, so is Cally's War. I
could have done without the others, especially without Watch on the
Rhine. With that, a hearty Screw you, buddy! goes out to Tommy Kratman,
the rude bastard. Fucking know-it-all, teach _me_ German language and
history, will ya? Arrogant asshole. Take a community college course in
writing.

Quite a few of the books are downloadable legally and for free at www.baen.com


--
My computer is so fast it can execute an infinite loop in 3 seconds.

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#276: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 21:22:01 by Jennifer Stone

Alec Cawley wrote:
&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1149036206.888463.44980&#64;i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1149036206.888463.44980&#64;i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
&gt; <a href="mailto:treesy2&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">treesy2&#64;hotmail.com</a> says...
- - - 8&lt;- - -
&gt;&gt;2. Rant
&gt;&gt;The main thing that spurned me to write this is our public school
&gt;&gt;censors. Their job is to block innapropriate sites from school networks
&gt;&gt;in schools (which I agree with), however, I have cause to think that
&gt;&gt;they may be a little heavy handed.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Why, because I recently attempted to log on to afp from school, only to
&gt;&gt;find that it had been blocked as an &quot;adult-sex group&quot;. This, naturally,
&gt;&gt;has caused much confusion on my part, as I'd been following afp from
&gt;&gt;school for over a year before this.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Not uncommon for automated tools to get it wrong. In early days, they
&gt; blocked off all the breast cancer support sites. They have got slightly
&gt; more sophisticated, but still get it wrong. New Scientist had several
&gt; more examples: X-ray crystallography sites becasue it assumed that &quot;X-
&gt; ra&quot; had to be followed by &quot;ted&quot;, amateur astronomy sites banned for too
&gt; many /naked/ eys observations. But the prize was won by a US High School
&gt; which banned its own website because so many references to &quot;high&quot; meant
&gt; it obviously had to be drug-related.
&gt;

Not forgetting my school, whose filter for a while banned an online
version of the Bible. All of it, apparently, not just the Song of
Songs.

--
Jen[nifer Stone]
jmstone at lithoi dot demon dot co dot uk
&quot;In housing his great tortoise, Tsang Wen-Chung
had the capitals of the pillars carved in the
shape of hills and the rafter posts painted in
a duckweed design. What is one to think of his
intelligence?&quot; Confucius, /The Analects/

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#277: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case akid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 21:22:19 by Torak

Gid Holyoake wrote:
&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:Pine.WNT.4.61.0606011927560.1072&#64;SLINKY" target="_blank">Pine.WNT.4.61.0606011927560.1072&#64;SLINKY</a>&gt;, Philippa Cowderoy
&gt;
&gt; Snippetry..
&gt;
&gt;&gt;If you do have an idea, please
&gt;&gt;elaborate - and preferably without resorting to an undefined 'gutter' or
&gt;&gt;similar concept.
&gt;
&gt; If you can define the gutter it might help some of those of us who are
&gt; trying to get that high..
&gt;
&gt; Gid (I used to dream of living in a gutter)

Luxury.

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#278: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 21:25:08 by Arthur Hagen

Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; René wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Smacks slightly of &quot;But she asked for it, wearing a miniskirt&quot; to
&gt;&gt;&gt; me, yes.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Nah, it's more like &quot;but she's the only one easily IDable as actual
&gt;&gt; female, and kinda cute&quot;. Not that there is anything wrong with that
&gt;&gt;&gt; D
&gt;
&gt; Well, in point of fact, Peachy is the only person here who has met me
&gt; in person..

How do you know?

--
*Art

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#279: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 21:28:56 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Karen wrote:

&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:Pine.LNX.4.64.0606011940260.15778&#64;hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk" target="_blank">Pine.LNX.4.64.0606011940260.15778&#64;hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk</a>&gt;, Peter
&gt; Ellis &lt;<a href="mailto:pjie2&#64;cam.ac.uk" target="_blank">pjie2&#64;cam.ac.uk</a>&gt; writes
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; &gt; &gt; Peter Ellis said:
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; He's telling the naughty kids not to talk about [...]
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; No, I'm not *telling* anyone to do *anything*. Sheesh, can't you READ?
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; OK, you're *asking* the naughty kids not to talk about naughty things,
&gt; &gt; because grown-ups never flirt, or talk about sex.
&gt; &gt;
&gt;
&gt; Where?
&gt;
&gt; I've just read this thread from the top again and it is entirely possible I'm
&gt; missing posts but I can't see anywhere that Richard has actually proposed
&gt; censoring or moderating the newsgroup or asking people not to post on sexual
&gt; topics. I've seen lots of people assume that this is what he means but I can't
&gt; find him actually saying it anywhere.
&gt;

There is, however, an amount of him being rather nasty about some of
what's posted while refusing to clarify what he's being nasty about.

&quot;I wouldn't want a dog subjected to some of the stuff that's posted
here.&quot;

&quot;You might think &quot;adults&quot; would be clever enough to find topics of
discussion that are suitable for younger Pratchett fans to join in, or at
least read, without (in some cases) blushing or (in other cases, perhaps)
having to hide the screen from their mothers.&quot;

That variety of &quot;argument&quot; I've seen used many a time to tell people
(usually teenagers) to stop discussing something. It rarely matters if in
fact it's highly important to the people discussing - except when they
grow up having been repeatedly told it's bad that they want to talk about
things that're critical to who they are or how their relationships work.

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

There is no magic bullet. There are, however, plenty of bullets that
magically home in on feet when not used in exactly the right circumstances.

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#280: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 21:31:02 by Arthur Hagen

René &lt;<a href="mailto:Kar98&#64;The-Coalition.US" target="_blank">Kar98&#64;The-Coalition.US</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; On 2006-06-01 12:48:26 -0500, &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt;
&gt; said:
&gt;&gt; René wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; I don't do this whole bloggy thing, sorry.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; seriously, you can't read a blog? &lt;puzzled&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I can read them alright, sort of, but it just isn't my thing. Yes, I
&gt; am that narrow-minded: e-mail for one-on-one communication (IM for
&gt; instant feedback), Usenet or Web forums for topic-specific,
&gt; wide-audience broadcast with time-delayed feedback, IRC for, well,
&gt; Internet relay chat.
&gt;
&gt; I guess that's just me though, nothing to worry about.

No, it's not just you. I believe in specialised tools too, and blogs are
neither here nor there. For one thing, they are subject to censorship, and
they also tend to go away on short notice, with the loss of everything that
was said. They also move on so quickly to a new topic that there's no way
to think before you talk -- you have to answer immediately, or no-one will
ever read your answer (or you might not even be allowed to post a reply).

--
*Art

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#281: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 21:32:01 by steelcat

In article &lt;nJGfg.7743$<a href="mailto:921.2833&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">921.2833&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
&quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Would you like to see the pictures? One of them that I made last night is
&gt;posed like the Venus de Milo. Everything pubic is hidden by water (digital
&gt;water), and one breast is hidden, but one breast is visible. It doesn't show
&gt;my face.

Well, that sounds 'armless enough.

Cat.
--
Jazz-Loving Soul Mate and Tolerable Frog to CCA
Two by two, hands of blue...

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#282: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case akid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 21:32:45 by exquisite witch peachy

Richard Heathfield wrote:


&gt; perhaps there are insufficiently many people who
&gt; are capable of holding a conversation without having a security gutter
&gt; within easy reach. I hope and believe that's false, but I could be wrong.
&gt;

I am struggling not to feel insulted here, and mostly losing.

The clear implication is that some here reside in the gutter, and are
not exerting themselves to lift themselves out of the muck.

I mostly conduct myself in the world where swearing and innuendo are
inappropriate. I am a parent and a student. I have two very naive
children, who I work overtime to shield. I am a student, and academic
papers in my field, or the classroom, are not the avenue for those sorts
of conversation.

Usenet is my avenue for behaving in a way that I don't behave in
front of the children.

I am not incapable of conducting myself responsibly and with dignity.

The &quot;gutter&quot; is not a security blanket, it is my chosen recreation,
thank you.

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#283: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 21:39:23 by Arthur Hagen

Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; I apologise for using several polysyllabic words in that explanation.
&gt; I also apologise for using tricky logic. Perhaps I should clarify for
&gt; you the logical process I used:
&gt;
&gt; A implies A.

The logical problem is that you then conclude &quot;Thus A&quot;.

--
*Art

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#284: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 21:40:41 by Eric Jarvis

Richard Heathfield <a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a> wrote in &lt;3KednZu07bM2s-
<a href="mailto:LZRVnytw&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">LZRVnytw&#64;bt.com</a>&gt;:
&gt; Eric Jarvis said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Richard Heathfield <a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a> wrote in
&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:3rOdnb6tX5TBiOLZRVnysA&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">3rOdnb6tX5TBiOLZRVnysA&#64;bt.com</a>&gt;:
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Word games. If many people in the past have expressed a desire for an afp
&gt; &gt;&gt; which you wouldn't be embarrassed to invite your mother to, then it's not
&gt; &gt;&gt; unreasonable to at least consider the idea that such a group might be
&gt; &gt;&gt; worth setting up.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Why on earth would I be embarrassed to invite my mother to afp? Apart from
&gt; &gt; the small details that she hasn't read any of the books yet and doesn't
&gt; &gt; own a computer.
&gt;
&gt; When I stay literal, I'm told literalism isn't good enough.
&gt;
&gt; When I wax lyrical, I'm nit-picked on lyrical details.
&gt;
&gt; &lt;shrug&gt;
&gt;

Actually it was a reply aimed at what I thought was the meat of the
argument. Being embarrassed about inviting your mother to a place is not
solely about your mother, it is at least as much about what you are
prepared to show your mother about yourself.

To a large extent the same applies to much that people wish to protect
children from seeing. At least some of it is down to preferring to avoid
having to explain some things the children won't have encountered before
rather than to avoid them being harmed directly.

I'm not saying that's wrong in any way. It's quite reasonable. However it
helps to be clearly aware of precisely what the issues are.

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
&quot;live fast, die only if strictly necessary&quot;

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#285: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 21:41:52 by Karen

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:Pine.WNT.4.61.0606011938290.1072&#64;SLINKY" target="_blank">Pine.WNT.4.61.0606011938290.1072&#64;SLINKY</a>&gt;, Philippa Cowderoy
&lt;<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>&gt; writes
&gt;On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
[..]
&gt;&gt; &gt; Then could we kindly skip to the meat of the argument, namely which
&gt;&gt; &gt; content you feel is or should be being discussed? Because otherwise all
&gt;&gt; &gt; you're doing is making people who're further from social norms feel
&gt;&gt; &gt; exceedingly uncomfortable.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Up to now, it's been those who are less far from what you call &quot;social
&gt;&gt; norms&quot; who have been feeling uncomfortable. But you seem to suggest that's
&gt;&gt; okay, because such people's opinions don't count.

Well actually I don't agree with that point - I've seen lots of people
post 'fer gawds sake pack it in for a bit' and by no means do those
voices represent a consistent grouping in terms of sexual orientation or
anything else.

&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;*I CAN'T TELL IF YOU'RE TRYING TO DISCUSS WHETHER I SHOULD HAVE TO HIDE
&gt;WHO I AM ON THIS NEWSGROUP, AND YOU ARE STEADFASTLY REFUSING TO HELP
&gt;ANSWER THAT QUESTION*.


I can tell you what I think the point is or how I read the posts and
that is nothing to do with censoring topics or individuals and more to
do with all of us whatever we are giving a bit of general thought as to
what we are posting and how interesting it is to the rest of the group.

Granted if that is what Richard means its a fairly cack handed way of
explaining it but that is how I understand his words. If that is the
case, I don't actually have an issue with it and looking around at most
of the posts over the last few days I don't think many other people do
either. There is a world of difference between censorship, moderation,
'thou shalt not' and 'be proud of your posts, think before you post, aim
to interest the group not just one or two individuals'.


&gt;Those closer to the &quot;social norms&quot; are not going
&gt;through that. In fact, they're being asked what it is that's making them
&gt;uncomfortable - that's far from suggesting their opinions don't count!
&gt;
&gt;FWIW, up to now those of us further from the norms have spent most of our
&gt;lives being made to feel uncomfortable about it in ways that're frequently
&gt;hard for someone closer to the norms to understand. It doesn't matter
&gt;which particular direction we're distant in right now: you're hitting all
&gt;of us, whether our particular direction's been making others uncomfortable
&gt;or not.
&gt;


You know the interesting thing is that I'm really struggling to remember
a thread actually on sexuality, sexual practices, gender etc which could
be described as offensive. Some which I wouldn't point the average eight
year old at because of the 'whoosh' factor and the 'yeuch, squidgy'
factors but more often I've found them useful with some of the age
groups in question. But like I said, I did select posts out for kids on
grounds of interest and their level at the time rather than just handing
it over en masse.
I digress though.

Interminable threads with circulate with the same repeated innuendo -
well they don't embarrass me but I do find them tedious when they go on
for so long and they are not the threads I'd point out when commending
the group.


&gt;&gt; So what? Every post is written by /someone/ - and many people here post
&gt;&gt; stuff which would trip even a clueful parental control program. So when one
&gt;&gt; individual person asks &quot;have I ever posted stuff you think is OTT?&quot;, it's
&gt;&gt; hardly surprising if the answer is &quot;yes&quot;. That doesn't mean I'm
&gt;&gt; witch-hunting that person.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;Quite. Witch hunts aren't about people, they're about witches. Some people
&gt;here are concerned that you may consider things that're important to them
&gt;to be witchcraft.

Yes that is a fair question which I would say needs an answer specific
to the matter of censoring topics or moderating because if neither of
those are in the frame we don't actually have an issue yes/no?

&gt;
&gt;&gt; If I point at a specific article, we will get bogged down in discussion of
&gt;&gt; that one article - as if we're not already mired enough in nitpicking! I'm
&gt;&gt; talking about a general culture, not a particular article by articles by a
&gt;&gt; particular person.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;You're framing the entire culture while refusing to discuss which parts
&gt;are actually being talked about and thus concerning everyone who cares
&gt;about an aspect that *could* be being talked about.

I can see both sides here - it reads to me like Richard is effectively
failing to convey that his issue is tone and balance rather than any
specific post or poster but I don't want to put words in his mouth.

&gt;
&gt;Please understand: you are seriously worrying people here. This is not a
&gt;game, and your attempts to steer the conversation away from places you're
&gt;not comfortable you can represent yourself accurately are causing genuine
&gt;distress.
&gt;
Agreed. So in effect what you need is straight answers to:

a) do you want to censor the group?
b) do you want to have moderation on the group?
c) do you want neither of the above but to ban certain topics?

If Richard's answer to those three is 'no' and its more about overall
balance and tone then is that something which makes more sense ?

Of course if the answer to any of those points is 'yes' then I'm as
confused as everyone else and I'd like answers to much the same
questions as you.


--
Karen/hypatia <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>
New? Check <a href="http://www.lspace.org" target="_blank">http://www.lspace.org</a>
Confused? Mail the Clue Fairies at <a href="mailto:afp-help&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">afp-help&#64;lspace.org</a>
Discworld Convention 2006, August 18-21, <a href="http://www.dwcon.org" target="_blank">http://www.dwcon.org</a>

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#286: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 21:42:50 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 01 Jun 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt;

&gt; Lesley Weston said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I believe you've said that your oldest is fifteen, and
&gt;&gt; your others not too far behind?
&gt;
&gt; Sure.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Some afpers are not much older than that. Do you also
&gt;&gt; choose the books that your children are allowed to read?
&gt;
&gt; No, they're bright enough to choose good books. But it
&gt; would be irresponsible of me to allow them unrestricted
&gt; Internet/Usenet access, not because they would seek out
&gt; unsuitable material, but because it's amazing what you can
&gt; stumble across by accident. (A friend of mine recently
&gt; tried to buy a plane ticket online, with his smiling happy
&gt; wife looking on, and made the mistake of guessing the URL.
&gt; He got most of it right, but typed .com instead of .co.uk
&gt; and ended up at a site where various seamstresses
&gt; advertised their wares. Oops.)

I had a similar experience when I transposed two letters in
&quot;www.garfield.com&quot;. I'm not sure *why* they do this, since
it's unlikely someone looking for plane tickets or cartoon
cats is going to think &quot;Not what I was wanting, but lets have
a look&quot;. I suppose it's the spammer credo: it doesn't cost
anything, so as long as it works on one person, you're
ahead...

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#287: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 21:42:54 by Gid Holyoake

In article &lt;xhHfg.14834$<a href="mailto:U_2.3629&#64;trnddc05" target="_blank">U_2.3629&#64;trnddc05</a>&gt;, peachy ashie passion
generously decided to share with us..

Snippetry..

&gt; The &quot;gutter&quot; is not a security blanket, it is my chosen recreation,
&gt; thank you.

Oh.. well.. if you're in the gutter could you give me a hand up?..

Ta..

Gid

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#288: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 21:44:04 by Arthur Hagen

Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; that there is a much-expressed desire for a Pratchett fan group
&gt;&gt;&gt; which people needn't be embarrassed to read while their family are
&gt;&gt;&gt; in the room.

If you get embarrassed reading afp while your family is in the room, then
the obvious solution is to not read afp with the family in the room.

&gt;&gt; What size font are you reading in?
&gt;
&gt; 12-point courier. Large enough for me to read, and therefore
&gt; certainly large enough for younger eyes to read.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Or do they just read over your shoulder?
&gt;
&gt; They don't need to. It's a big monitor, and it faces the room.

Then perhaps *you* should do something about that problem. Not us, *you*.

--
*Art

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#289: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 21:44:24 by Brenda

Peter Ellis said:

&gt;
&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt; Peter Ellis said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; He's telling the naughty kids not to talk about [...]
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; No, I'm not *telling* anyone to do *anything*. Sheesh, can't you READ?
&gt;
&gt; OK, you're *asking* the naughty kids not to talk about naughty things,
&gt; because grown-ups never flirt, or talk about sex.

As long as you would rather mock than understand, there is no point in this
dialogue.

&gt; It's still just as stupid. &quot;Why can't we all only talk about the things I
&gt; deem worthy of being talked about&quot; is not an attitude that works on any
&gt; unmoderated group.
&gt;
&gt; I don't want my kids exposed to prudery.

You shouldn't have any trouble protecting them from that. But to dismiss my
arguments as &quot;prudery&quot; is naive.

&gt; Please do not discuss the fact
&gt; that you feel we should not discuss particular subjects on afp.

Nice try at irony, but I haven't expressed any such feeling or desire. Or,
to put it another way: Sheesh, can't you READ?

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#290: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 21:45:52 by Eric Jarvis

Orjan Westin <a href="mailto:nospam&#64;cunobaros.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;cunobaros.com</a> wrote in
&lt;<a href="mailto:4e8qmkF1dets7U1&#64;individual.net" target="_blank">4e8qmkF1dets7U1&#64;individual.net</a>&gt;:
&gt;
&gt; But a moderate amount of innuendo? Yes, no, maybe? As long as it's
&gt; tastefully done, perhaps? According to whose taste?
&gt;

Sod taste. As long as it's funny.

Seriously though. The problem with many types of post isn't the content of
a single post, it's the repetition of one joke by many people, to the
point at which it ceases to be at all amusing to those reading it. Of
course the posting will have occurred before that point was reached. Jokes
wear thin fast on Usenet. They need to be replaced frequently, or at least
darned now and again.

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
&quot;live fast, die only if strictly necessary&quot;

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#291: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 21:50:23 by Eric Jarvis

Alec Cawley <a href="mailto:alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk" target="_blank">alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk</a> wrote in
&lt;<a href="mailto:MPG.1ee9425be7de692e989ca5&#64;news.individual.net" target="_blank">MPG.1ee9425be7de692e989ca5&#64;news.individual.net</a>&gt;:
&gt;
&gt; Sex is inherently one of the funniest subject to talk about. Not as
&gt; funny as the amount it is talked about, so that most jokes about sex are
&gt; unoriginal. But the sheer complecity and ridiculousness of human
&gt; courting and mating behaviour give lot of opportunity for wit, and I for
&gt; one would not want genuine wit to be stifled by the fear that a child
&gt; might see it (possible), understhand it (improbable) and be harmed by it
&gt; (very unlikely).
&gt;

Absolutely. Sex is inherently one of the funniest subject to talk about.
Though not nearly as hilarious as it is to actually do.

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
&quot;live fast, die only if strictly necessary&quot;

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#292: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 21:51:30 by Arthur Hagen

Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt;&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I and others discuss gender, BDSM, sexuality, sex, and other
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; matters. Do you object to this?
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Mu.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I fail to see how the question's invalid.
&gt;
&gt; If I say &quot;yes&quot;, some people will inevitably draw certain erroneous
&gt; conclusions about me. And if I say &quot;no&quot;, again, some people (possibly
&gt; the same people in some cases) will inevitably draw certain other
&gt; erroneous conclusions about me.

And by evading the question, some people (possibly the same people in some
cases) will inevitably draw yet other conclusions about you, e.g. that in
/addition/ to probably thinking &quot;yes&quot;, you're spineless.

--
*Art

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#293: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 21:51:34 by exquisite witch peachy

Karen wrote:

&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:Pine.WNT.4.61.0606011938290.1072&#64;SLINKY" target="_blank">Pine.WNT.4.61.0606011938290.1072&#64;SLINKY</a>&gt;, Philippa Cowderoy
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>&gt; writes
&gt;
&gt;&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&gt; [..]
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; Then could we kindly skip to the meat of the argument, namely which
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; content you feel is or should be being discussed? Because otherwise
&gt;&gt;&gt; all
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; you're doing is making people who're further from social norms feel
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; exceedingly uncomfortable.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Up to now, it's been those who are less far from what you call &quot;social
&gt;&gt;&gt; norms&quot; who have been feeling uncomfortable. But you seem to suggest
&gt;&gt;&gt; that's
&gt;&gt;&gt; okay, because such people's opinions don't count.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Well actually I don't agree with that point - I've seen lots of people
&gt; post 'fer gawds sake pack it in for a bit' and by no means do those
&gt; voices represent a consistent grouping in terms of sexual orientation or
&gt; anything else.
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; *I CAN'T TELL IF YOU'RE TRYING TO DISCUSS WHETHER I SHOULD HAVE TO HIDE
&gt;&gt; WHO I AM ON THIS NEWSGROUP, AND YOU ARE STEADFASTLY REFUSING TO HELP
&gt;&gt; ANSWER THAT QUESTION*.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I can tell you what I think the point is or how I read the posts and
&gt; that is nothing to do with censoring topics or individuals and more to
&gt; do with all of us whatever we are giving a bit of general thought as to
&gt; what we are posting and how interesting it is to the rest of the group.
&gt;
&gt; Granted if that is what Richard means its a fairly cack handed way of
&gt; explaining it but that is how I understand his words.


I applaud your efforts to be sympathetic to Richard.
I can't find one single interpretation of that which would involve
needing to use the words:

&quot;I'm talking about culture change, so that people are free to discuss
Pratchettesque matters without being drenched by neighbours constantly
hurling themselves into the gutter. And you may be right about afp not
being the place for that; perhaps there are insufficiently many people
who are capable of holding a conversation without having a security
gutter within easy reach.&quot;

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#294: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 21:52:46 by Brenda

Philippa Cowderoy said:

&gt; *I CAN'T TELL IF YOU'RE TRYING TO DISCUSS WHETHER I SHOULD HAVE TO HIDE
&gt; WHO I AM ON THIS NEWSGROUP,

I'm not.

&gt;&gt; [...] Every post is written by /someone/ - and many people here post
&gt;&gt; stuff which would trip even a clueful parental control program. So when
&gt;&gt; one individual person asks &quot;have I ever posted stuff you think is OTT?&quot;,
&gt;&gt; it's hardly surprising if the answer is &quot;yes&quot;. That doesn't mean I'm
&gt;&gt; witch-hunting that person.
&gt;
&gt; Quite. Witch hunts aren't about people, they're about witches.

Witches are people too. Ask Nanny Ogg.

&gt; Some people
&gt; here are concerned that you may consider things that're important to them
&gt; to be witchcraft.

I don't.

&gt; Please understand: you are seriously worrying people here.

I think you overestimate my influence in afp. I merely gave my opinion. I
now find myself in the middle of a monster thread, and it's probably time I
shut up. Again. Because, yet again, nobody seems able to read what I
actually wrote, as they're too busy chasing chimerae of their own devising.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#295: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case akid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 21:52:50 by exquisite witch peachy

Gid Holyoake wrote:

&gt; In article &lt;xhHfg.14834$<a href="mailto:U_2.3629&#64;trnddc05" target="_blank">U_2.3629&#64;trnddc05</a>&gt;, peachy ashie passion
&gt; generously decided to share with us..
&gt;
&gt; Snippetry..
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;The &quot;gutter&quot; is not a security blanket, it is my chosen recreation,
&gt;&gt;thank you.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Oh.. well.. if you're in the gutter could you give me a hand up?..
&gt;
&gt; Ta..
&gt;
&gt; Gid

Anything for a friend!

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#296: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 21:53:29 by Arthur Hagen

Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; I am *not* arguing against posts by specific people.

For not doing that, you sure say &quot;some people&quot; a lot.

--
*Art

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#297: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 21:54:13 by Brenda

Anastasia said:

&gt;
&gt; So I argue that I know what plonk means at least as much as you do.

Well, I was the one who used the word in this case. Presumably I know what I
meant by it.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#298: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 21:54:46 by exquisite witch peachy

Richard Heathfield wrote:


&gt; I think you overestimate my influence in afp. I merely gave my opinion. I
&gt; now find myself in the middle of a monster thread, and it's probably time I
&gt; shut up. Again. Because, yet again, nobody seems able to read what I
&gt; actually wrote, as they're too busy chasing chimerae of their own devising.
&gt;

Richard, a thought.

If you reach the point where NOBODY seems able to grasp your points,
it's time to consider whether the fault might be with the transmission,
rather than every single one of the receivers.

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#299: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 21:58:23 by Karen

In article &lt;e5nf9m$es2$<a href="mailto:1&#64;tree.broomstick.com" target="_blank">1&#64;tree.broomstick.com</a>&gt;, Arthur Hagen
&lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt; writes
&gt;René &lt;<a href="mailto:Kar98&#64;The-Coalition.US" target="_blank">Kar98&#64;The-Coalition.US</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; On 2006-06-01 12:48:26 -0500, &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt;
&gt;&gt; said:
&gt;&gt;&gt; René wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I don't do this whole bloggy thing, sorry.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; seriously, you can't read a blog? &lt;puzzled&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I can read them alright, sort of, but it just isn't my thing. Yes, I
&gt;&gt; am that narrow-minded: e-mail for one-on-one communication (IM for
&gt;&gt; instant feedback), Usenet or Web forums for topic-specific,
&gt;&gt; wide-audience broadcast with time-delayed feedback, IRC for, well,
&gt;&gt; Internet relay chat.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I guess that's just me though, nothing to worry about.
&gt;
&gt;No, it's not just you. I believe in specialised tools too, and blogs
&gt;are neither here nor there. For one thing, they are subject to
&gt;censorship, and they also tend to go away on short notice, with the
&gt;loss of everything that was said. They also move on so quickly to a
&gt;new topic that there's no way to think before you talk -- you have to
&gt;answer immediately, or no-one will ever read your answer (or you might
&gt;not even be allowed to post a reply).
&gt;

I have to confess that these are precisely the reasons I harbour low
grade 'resentment' of the way in which the boom in blogging dragged so
much content away from some of the newsgroups I used to read. It wasn't
that it was in a different location it was the fact that it regularly
just disappeared and discussions via comment are a nightmare by
comparison with the structure and threading of a newsgroups.

Blogs for personal posts is another issue, they seem no different to me
to the home pages of the 90s just less accessible - its the group
discussions sucked across that I find frustrating (not least because the
interfaces also tend to suck mightily in terms of accessibility and
they become rather impractical to use).

And yes on the writer in question, I've heard but not read so I'm
interested also.


--
Karen/hypatia <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>
New? Check <a href="http://www.lspace.org" target="_blank">http://www.lspace.org</a>
Confused? Mail the Clue Fairies at <a href="mailto:afp-help&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">afp-help&#64;lspace.org</a>
Discworld Convention 2006, August 18-21, <a href="http://www.dwcon.org" target="_blank">http://www.dwcon.org</a>

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#300: Re: [M]was: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:00:25 by Arthur Hagen

Karen &lt;<a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; April Goodwin-Smith &lt;<a href="mailto:agoodwinsmith&#64;shaw.ca" target="_blank">agoodwinsmith&#64;shaw.ca</a>&gt; writes
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; If this newsgroup offends you, then read one that does not.
&gt;
&gt; Yes - but that was the type of reasoning used by the Miaowers. Plus
&gt; I also reserve the right to state on this group where I see a
&gt; negative pattern building up *before* I pack my bags quietly and
&gt; depart by the back door. More than that, as someone who feels they
&gt; have been a net beneficiary over time I feel I owe it.

Geez, don't we all make freezy welcome!? :-)

Regards,
--
*Art

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#301: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:03:03 by Arthur Hagen

Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Lesley Weston said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Some afpers are not much older than that. Do you also choose
&gt;&gt; the books that your children are allowed to read?
&gt;
&gt; No, they're bright enough to choose good books. But it would be
&gt; irresponsible of me to allow them unrestricted Internet/Usenet
&gt; access, not because they would seek out unsuitable material, but
&gt; because it's amazing what you can stumble across by accident.

Ah. So they're bright enough to choose good books because dad makes certain
that they won't have the option to stumble onto other books... How...
liberal of you.

--
*Art

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#302: Re: [I]Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:04:48 by Arthur Hagen

Karen &lt;<a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; Probably says a lot about the recent threads that my pun defenders had
&gt; switched off but that has to be the most appalling pun I've seen here
&gt; in months.
&gt;
&gt; There is a fine box you know!

Tsk. Can't say &quot;fine box&quot;, you know -- people could see an Innuendo!

--
*Art

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#303: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:04:51 by Brenda

Philippa Cowderoy said:

&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Karen wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I've just read this thread from the top again and it is entirely possible
&gt;&gt; I'm missing posts but I can't see anywhere that Richard has actually
&gt;&gt; proposed censoring or moderating the newsgroup or asking people not to
&gt;&gt; post on sexual topics. I've seen lots of people assume that this is what
&gt;&gt; he means but I can't find him actually saying it anywhere.
&gt;
&gt; There is, however, an amount of him being rather nasty

No, that's not nasty. That's pretty mild, compared to some of the stuff
posted in this newsgroup. You can try for nasty if you like, but I'm not
good at nasty. I'm much better at straightforward and polite.

Now try addressing Karen's substantive points instead of shifting the
ground.

(Thank you, Karen. It's good to know that /some/ Terry Pratchett fans can
read.)

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#304: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:08:47 by sphira9343

Eric Jarvis wrote:

&gt; Why on earth would I be embarrassed to invite my mother to afp? Apart from
&gt; the small details that she hasn't read any of the books yet and doesn't
&gt; own a computer.

I often tell my Mum things from afp. In fact, she often asks how
everyone is when I switch it off :-)

CCA

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#305: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:12:05 by sphira9343

Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; (Thanks for responding intelligently, Philippa. It makes a
&gt; pleasant change. And anyone who is offended by that, deserves to be.)

You know, Richard, for an otherwise likeable guy, you certainly come
across as a headmaster talking to naughty children sometimes.
CCA

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#306: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:12:18 by Karen

In article &lt;azHfg.14839$<a href="mailto:U_2.11424&#64;trnddc05" target="_blank">U_2.11424&#64;trnddc05</a>&gt;, peachy ashie passion
&lt;<a href="mailto:exquisitepeach&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">exquisitepeach&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; writes
&gt;Karen wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:Pine.WNT.4.61.0606011938290.1072&#64;SLINKY" target="_blank">Pine.WNT.4.61.0606011938290.1072&#64;SLINKY</a>&gt;, Philippa
&gt;&gt;Cowderoy &lt;<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>&gt; writes
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:

[..]

&gt;&gt;&gt; *I CAN'T TELL IF YOU'RE TRYING TO DISCUSS WHETHER I SHOULD HAVE TO HIDE
&gt;&gt;&gt; WHO I AM ON THIS NEWSGROUP, AND YOU ARE STEADFASTLY REFUSING TO HELP
&gt;&gt;&gt; ANSWER THAT QUESTION*.
&gt;&gt; I can tell you what I think the point is or how I read the posts
&gt;&gt;and that is nothing to do with censoring topics or individuals and
&gt;&gt;more to do with all of us whatever we are giving a bit of general
&gt;&gt;thought as to what we are posting and how interesting it is to the
&gt;&gt;rest of the group.
&gt;&gt; Granted if that is what Richard means its a fairly cack handed way
&gt;&gt;of explaining it but that is how I understand his words.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I applaud your efforts to be sympathetic to Richard.

What efforts would they be then? I'm trying to understand what exactly
is being said rather than assuming I know someone's mind better than
they do. Try reading the other posts and further down this one, I think
Richard could be a lot clearer and I've said as much.


&gt; I can't find one single interpretation of that which would involve
&gt;needing to use the words:
&gt;
&gt; &quot;I'm talking about culture change, so that people are free to discuss
&gt;Pratchettesque matters without being drenched by neighbours constantly
&gt;hurling themselves into the gutter. And you may be right about afp not
&gt;being the place for that; perhaps there are insufficiently many people
&gt;who are capable of holding a conversation without having a security
&gt;gutter within easy reach.&quot;

I've seen at least four or five other people including me post today, to
the effect that the balance and tone is out of kilter and that the
endless nudge nudge innuendo threads are at least as tedious as the
vampire threads on religion when they reach the levels they have done
recently. None of us have been bollocked for it in fact there has been
quite a lot of agreement that its been excessive lately. You might not
like the way Richard phrases it, it certainly isn't going to score any
points on the 'make friends and influence people' and frankly isn't the
way to go about persuading people IMHO but it does *not* say 'I want to
censor/moderate/ban topics on this newsgroup' and to suggest otherwise
is putting words into his mouth in precisely the way people object to it
the other way around.

We all come to this group for recreation, a bit of gutter now and again
is harmless enough but we do *share* the spaces and when one person's
enjoyable gutter or another person's hot button topic takes over the
whole damned watering hole then we *all* lose out.

--
Karen/hypatia <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>
New? Check <a href="http://www.lspace.org" target="_blank">http://www.lspace.org</a>
Confused? Mail the Clue Fairies at <a href="mailto:afp-help&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">afp-help&#64;lspace.org</a>
Discworld Convention 2006, August 18-21, <a href="http://www.dwcon.org" target="_blank">http://www.dwcon.org</a>

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#307: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:23:48 by Karen

In article &lt;aCHfg.14841$<a href="mailto:U_2.6037&#64;trnddc05" target="_blank">U_2.6037&#64;trnddc05</a>&gt;, peachy ashie passion
&lt;<a href="mailto:exquisitepeach&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">exquisitepeach&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; writes
&gt;Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I think you overestimate my influence in afp. I merely gave my
&gt;&gt;opinion. I now find myself in the middle of a monster thread, and
&gt;&gt;it's probably time I shut up. Again. Because, yet again, nobody seems
&gt;&gt;able to read what I actually wrote, as they're too busy chasing
&gt;&gt;chimerae of their own devising.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Richard, a thought.
&gt;
&gt; If you reach the point where NOBODY seems able to grasp your points,
&gt;it's time to consider whether the fault might be with the transmission,
&gt;rather than every single one of the receivers.


Well its not every single one of the receivers, some of us are just
plain bemused that an issue we thought had general consensus has become
to censor or not to censor from various derivations but not real
justification that I can see.

So I actually agree with your suggestion as I understand it.

Richard could you please humour me and state for everyone your view on
the desirability or otherwise of a) censoring b)moderating c) barring
certain topics.

Could anyone else say if they disagree with the notion that we have had
an excess of innuendo in jokes lately and a break from them to get back
to regular channels would be rather nice?

After that I'm struggling to see what else is left to lie awake over.


--
Karen/hypatia <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>
New? Check <a href="http://www.lspace.org" target="_blank">http://www.lspace.org</a>
Confused? Mail the Clue Fairies at <a href="mailto:afp-help&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">afp-help&#64;lspace.org</a>
Discworld Convention 2006, August 18-21, <a href="http://www.dwcon.org" target="_blank">http://www.dwcon.org</a>

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#308: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:24:24 by sphira9343

Alec Cawley wrote:
&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:tMmdnQVZBeGgg-LZRVny2A&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">tMmdnQVZBeGgg-LZRVny2A&#64;bt.com</a>&gt;, <a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>
&gt; says...

&gt; &gt; Yeah, I know - but I'm not talking about moderation (a la censorship). I'm
&gt; &gt; talking about culture change, so that people are free to discuss
&gt; &gt; Pratchettesque matters without being drenched by neighbours constantly
&gt; &gt; hurling themselves into the gutter.

&gt; I would find such an implicit restriction a serious constraint on my
&gt; posting habits, and it would probably lead me to drop the group. I do
&gt; not often post on sexual, scatological etc. subjects, but I do not want
&gt; to have to think twice before every posting before I hit the send
&gt; button. I like this bean an adult newsgroup int hat everybody is assumed
&gt; to be old enough to decide whether the newsgroup's standard of posting
&gt; is acceptable to them and to unsubscribe if not.

I think that's the best way I've seen it put so far. I certainly
wouldn't find it so easy to post here if, every time I posted, I had to
consider &quot;Hang on, are there children reading this?&quot;

The thing is, if you (a general 'you') were reading a book which you
thought your children might enjoy, but that had a lot of
sex/violence/swearing in it, you wouldn't write to the author asking
them to re-write the book to make it suitable for children, would you?
You simply wouldn't let them read the book, until they were old enough
to read those things.

If you walked into a room full of adults, discussing adult topics and
using adult language, you wouldn't say &quot;Hey, you lot, keep it down,
will you? I want to bring my kids in here, and there might be other
kids somewhere listening.&quot; You'd take your children somewhere more
appropriate.

&gt; Sex is inherently one of the funniest subject to talk about. Not as
&gt; funny as the amount it is talked about, so that most jokes about sex are
&gt; unoriginal. But the sheer complecity and ridiculousness of human
&gt; courting and mating behaviour give lot of opportunity for wit, and I for
&gt; one would not want genuine wit to be stifled by the fear that a child
&gt; might see it (possible), understhand it (improbable) and be harmed by it
&gt; (very unlikely).

Quite right. And I think that if such a situation was brought about,
people would leave afp in droves. Which would be a great shame.

CCA

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#309: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:25:05 by Brenda

Karen said:

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; I can see both sides here - it reads to me like Richard is effectively
&gt; failing to convey

Nicely put. :-)

&gt; that his issue is tone and balance rather than any
&gt; specific post or poster but I don't want to put words in his mouth.

But if you did, they would be the right words. Well done.


&gt;&gt;Please understand: you are seriously worrying people here. This is not a
&gt;&gt;game, and your attempts to steer the conversation away from places you're
&gt;&gt;not comfortable you can represent yourself accurately are causing genuine
&gt;&gt;distress.
&gt;&gt;
&gt; Agreed. So in effect what you need is straight answers to:
&gt;
&gt; a) do you want to censor the group?

Me? No.

&gt; b) do you want to have moderation on the group?

Me? No.

&gt; c) do you want neither of the above but to ban certain topics?

Me? No.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#310: Re: [I]Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:25:39 by Karen

In article &lt;e5nh90$f1t$<a href="mailto:1&#64;tree.broomstick.com" target="_blank">1&#64;tree.broomstick.com</a>&gt;, Arthur Hagen
&lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt; writes
&gt;Karen &lt;<a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; Probably says a lot about the recent threads that my pun defenders
&gt;&gt;had
&gt;&gt; switched off but that has to be the most appalling pun I've seen here
&gt;&gt; in months.
&gt;&gt; There is a fine box you know!
&gt;
&gt;Tsk. Can't say &quot;fine box&quot;, you know -- people could see an Innuendo!
&gt;

depends where its kept ;p

--
Karen/hypatia <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>
New? Check <a href="http://www.lspace.org" target="_blank">http://www.lspace.org</a>
Confused? Mail the Clue Fairies at <a href="mailto:afp-help&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">afp-help&#64;lspace.org</a>
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#311: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:26:32 by Peter Ellis

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Karen wrote:
&gt;
&gt; Agreed. So in effect what you need is straight answers to:
&gt;
&gt; a) do you want to censor the group?
&gt; b) do you want to have moderation on the group?
&gt; c) do you want neither of the above but to ban certain topics?
&gt;
&gt; If Richard's answer to those three is 'no' and its more about overall balance
&gt; and tone then is that something which makes more sense ?
&gt;
&gt; Of course if the answer to any of those points is 'yes' then I'm as confused
&gt; as everyone else and I'd like answers to much the same questions as you.

What if the answer to the first two is &quot;no&quot;, and the answer to the third
is a request for the group to get out of the gutter - but with a refusal
to define the gutter, how to get into or out of the gutter, and a vague
appeal to protecting children and mothers from embarrassment?

'cos that's all we're getting so far, despite repeated requests.

At that point it starts to look like the answer to the third is &quot;yes&quot;,
desperately trying to disguise itself as &quot;no&quot;.

Peter

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#312: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:27:34 by sphira9343

peachy ashie passion wrote:
&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; &gt; perhaps there are insufficiently many people who
&gt; &gt; are capable of holding a conversation without having a security gutter
&gt; &gt; within easy reach. I hope and believe that's false, but I could be wrong.

&gt; I am struggling not to feel insulted here, and mostly losing.

Pretty much my reaction, but I'm struggling not to reply to Richard
anymore as there seem to be plenty of people expressing views I agree
with.
CCA

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#313: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:29:29 by Brenda

Arthur Hagen said:

&gt; Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I apologise for using several polysyllabic words in that explanation.
&gt;&gt; I also apologise for using tricky logic. Perhaps I should clarify for
&gt;&gt; you the logical process I used:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; A implies A.
&gt;
&gt; The logical problem is that you then conclude &quot;Thus A&quot;.

No, A was given by the other guy. I was merely exploring the logical
consequences of A, in a way I felt he might be able to grasp. If A is not
true, then his original point is moot. And if it /is/ true, then it's true.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#314: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:31:48 by Arthur Hagen

The Stainless Steel Cat &lt;<a href="mailto:steelcat&#64;atuin.demon.co.uk" target="_blank">steelcat&#64;atuin.demon.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; In article &lt;nJGfg.7743$<a href="mailto:921.2833&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">921.2833&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
&gt; &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Would you like to see the pictures? One of them that I made last
&gt;&gt; night is posed like the Venus de Milo.
&gt;
&gt; Well, that sounds 'armless enough.

A marbleous picture, I'm sure.

Regards,
--
*Art

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#315: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:33:00 by Graycat

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 20:12:41 +0100, Karen &lt;<a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt;
jotted down:

&gt;In article &lt;<a href="mailto:Pine.LNX.4.64.0606011940260.15778&#64;hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk" target="_blank">Pine.LNX.4.64.0606011940260.15778&#64;hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk</a>&gt;,
&gt;Peter Ellis &lt;<a href="mailto:pjie2&#64;cam.ac.uk" target="_blank">pjie2&#64;cam.ac.uk</a>&gt; writes
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Peter Ellis said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; He's telling the naughty kids not to talk about [...]
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; No, I'm not *telling* anyone to do *anything*. Sheesh, can't you READ?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;OK, you're *asking* the naughty kids not to talk about naughty things,
&gt;&gt;because grown-ups never flirt, or talk about sex.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;Where?
&gt;
&gt;I've just read this thread from the top again and it is entirely
&gt;possible I'm missing posts but I can't see anywhere that Richard has
&gt;actually proposed censoring or moderating the newsgroup or asking people
&gt;not to post on sexual topics. I've seen lots of people assume that this
&gt;is what he means but I can't find him actually saying it anywhere.

Richards first post said:
&quot;We also have at least one regular here who does not
consider himself a &quot;fundie&quot;, who would love to be able to
allow his Pratchett-reading children to read afp, but can't
because the level of so-called &quot;adult&quot; talk is way too high.
You might think &quot;adults&quot; would be clever enough to find
topics of discussion that are suitable for younger Pratchett
fans to join in, or at least read, without (in some cases)
blushing or (in other cases, perhaps) having to hide the
screen from their mothers.

But you'd be wrong.&quot;

While this is certainly not telling people directly to stop
posting a certain way he is 1) expressing a wish for afp to
have less &quot;adult talk&quot; and 2) implying that people who talk
about non-child-friendly things are not clever, ie stupid.

Later Eric said
&quot;No. However we should try to pitch the tenor of the group
somewhere close to the tenor of the books. That means being
aware of where the gutter is and commenting subtly on its
contents, without actually diving in for a swim.&quot;

Which basically means we should stay out of the gutter.

To which Richard replied:
&quot;Well said.&quot;

Indicating that he'd also like us to stay out of the gutter.

I think the reason Richard is getting slammed while Eric
isn't is that Eric is more well known, and possibly liked,
and Richard is expressing himself in a manner guaranteed to
make some people feel targeted and offended.

I believe, like you, that his tone is getting in the way of
his message. But intepreting the message as being &quot;stop
being so bloody filthy&quot; is, imo, understandable.



--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
The Oswalds DW casting award - Vote Now!
<a href="http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html</a>

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#316: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:33:42 by Brenda

Arthur Hagen said:

&gt; Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt;&gt;&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I and others discuss gender, BDSM, sexuality, sex, and other
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; matters. Do you object to this?
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Mu.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I fail to see how the question's invalid.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; If I say &quot;yes&quot;, some people will inevitably draw certain erroneous
&gt;&gt; conclusions about me. And if I say &quot;no&quot;, again, some people (possibly
&gt;&gt; the same people in some cases) will inevitably draw certain other
&gt;&gt; erroneous conclusions about me.
&gt;
&gt; And by evading the question,

I didn't evade the question. I pointed out that either answer, yes or no,
will convey a wrong impression.

&gt; some people (possibly the same people in some
&gt; cases) will inevitably draw yet other conclusions about you, e.g. that in
&gt; /addition/ to probably thinking &quot;yes&quot;, you're spineless.

Only stupid people would come to that conclusion, and most afpers aren't
stupid.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#317: Re: [I]Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:34:04 by steelcat

In article &lt;e5nh90$f1t$<a href="mailto:1&#64;tree.broomstick.com" target="_blank">1&#64;tree.broomstick.com</a>&gt;,
&quot;Arthur Hagen&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Karen &lt;<a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Probably says a lot about the recent threads that my pun defenders had
&gt;&gt; switched off but that has to be the most appalling pun I've seen here
&gt;&gt; in months.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; There is a fine box you know!
&gt;
&gt;Tsk. Can't say &quot;fine box&quot;, you know -- people could see an Innuendo!

Not without an innuendoscope.

Cat.
--
Jazz-Loving Soul Mate and Tolerable Frog to CCA
I'll be in mah bunk.

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#318: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:34:08 by sphira9343

Orjan Westin wrote:
&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; &gt; If it's so adult-oriented, adult-rated (whatever that means), and
&gt; &gt; adult-inhabited, it ought to be possible to discuss the matter in an
&gt; &gt; adult way. Please try.

&gt; Some of us do. Come to think of it, I posted something just yesterday,
&gt; in which I tried to discuss the issue. It got one reply, which focussed
&gt; on one aspect, so I guess nobody was very interested in the other
&gt; aspects I raised.

Or maybe we agreed with you, and had nothing more to add. After all,
long strings of &quot;Yes, I agree with you&quot; posts are another thing that is
usually discouraged here.
I often read posts thoroughly, think &quot;Yes, he/she's right&quot; and then
just move on, as i've got nothing new to add.

CCA

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#319: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:35:32 by Stacie Hanes

Arthur Hagen wrote:
&gt; Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;&gt; Well, in point of fact, Peachy is the only person here who has met
&gt;&gt; me in person..
&gt;
&gt; How do you know?

Well, damn. You have a point.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#320: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:36:40 by Brenda

peachy ashie passion said:

&gt; Richard, a thought.
&gt;
&gt; If you reach the point where NOBODY seems able to grasp your points,
&gt; it's time to consider whether the fault might be with the transmission,
&gt; rather than every single one of the receivers.

I'll bear that in mind. For now, though, it seems that, at the very least,
Karen, Eric Jarvis, Torak, and Orjan Westin can understand what I'm saying,
so I don't see why anyone else shouldn't be able to, if they want to.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#321: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:37:38 by Arthur Hagen

Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; There is, however, an amount of him being rather nasty
&gt;
&gt; No, that's not nasty. That's pretty mild, compared to some of the
&gt; stuff posted in this newsgroup. You can try for nasty if you like,
&gt; but I'm not good at nasty. I'm much better at straightforward and
&gt; polite.
&gt;
&gt; Now try addressing Karen's substantive points instead of shifting the
&gt; ground.
&gt;
&gt; (Thank you, Karen. It's good to know that /some/ Terry Pratchett fans
&gt; can read.)

If you don't think that what you said in parentheses there was nasty -- to
the majorit of the group, even -- you have a problem we sure can't help you
with.

--
*Art

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#322: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:40:03 by Stacie Hanes

jester wrote:

&gt; s/seriously worrying/annoying and\/or winding up, possibly trolling/

As Philippa may have already said for me (my reader was on the blink), if I
had even half a brain this would probably worry me.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#323: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:41:23 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Karen wrote:

&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:Pine.WNT.4.61.0606011938290.1072&#64;SLINKY" target="_blank">Pine.WNT.4.61.0606011938290.1072&#64;SLINKY</a>&gt;, Philippa Cowderoy
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>&gt; writes
&gt; &gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; [..]
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Then could we kindly skip to the meat of the argument, namely which
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; content you feel is or should be being discussed? Because otherwise all
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; you're doing is making people who're further from social norms feel
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; exceedingly uncomfortable.
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; Up to now, it's been those who are less far from what you call &quot;social
&gt; &gt; &gt; norms&quot; who have been feeling uncomfortable. But you seem to suggest that's
&gt; &gt; &gt; okay, because such people's opinions don't count.
&gt;
&gt; Well actually I don't agree with that point - I've seen lots of people post
&gt; 'fer gawds sake pack it in for a bit' and by no means do those voices
&gt; represent a consistent grouping in terms of sexual orientation or anything
&gt; else.
&gt;

I'm not in favour of the Cult of Stacie either, and that's speaking as
someone who's really looking forward to having her visit for a day or two
after the con.

&gt; &gt; Those closer to the &quot;social norms&quot; are not going
&gt; &gt; through that. In fact, they're being asked what it is that's making them
&gt; &gt; uncomfortable - that's far from suggesting their opinions don't count!
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; FWIW, up to now those of us further from the norms have spent most of our
&gt; &gt; lives being made to feel uncomfortable about it in ways that're frequently
&gt; &gt; hard for someone closer to the norms to understand. It doesn't matter
&gt; &gt; which particular direction we're distant in right now: you're hitting all
&gt; &gt; of us, whether our particular direction's been making others uncomfortable
&gt; &gt; or not.
&gt; &gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; You know the interesting thing is that I'm really struggling to remember a
&gt; thread actually on sexuality, sexual practices, gender etc which could be
&gt; described as offensive. Some which I wouldn't point the average eight year old
&gt; at because of the 'whoosh' factor and the 'yeuch, squidgy' factors but more
&gt; often I've found them useful with some of the age groups in question. But like
&gt; I said, I did select posts out for kids on grounds of interest and their level
&gt; at the time rather than just handing it over en masse.
&gt; I digress though.
&gt;

Yeah, afp's generally been a good place for discussions like that.

&gt; Interminable threads with circulate with the same repeated innuendo - well
&gt; they don't embarrass me but I do find them tedious when they go on for so long
&gt; and they are not the threads I'd point out when commending the group.
&gt;

Me either.

&gt;
&gt; &gt; Quite. Witch hunts aren't about people, they're about witches. Some people
&gt; &gt; here are concerned that you may consider things that're important to them
&gt; &gt; to be witchcraft.
&gt;
&gt; Yes that is a fair question which I would say needs an answer specific to the
&gt; matter of censoring topics or moderating because if neither of those are in
&gt; the frame we don't actually have an issue yes/no?
&gt;

We do if more subtle forms of discouragement are in the frame.

&gt; &gt; You're framing the entire culture while refusing to discuss which parts
&gt; &gt; are actually being talked about and thus concerning everyone who cares
&gt; &gt; about an aspect that *could* be being talked about.
&gt;
&gt; I can see both sides here - it reads to me like Richard is effectively failing
&gt; to convey that his issue is tone and balance rather than any specific post or
&gt; poster but I don't want to put words in his mouth.
&gt;

I'd like to believe this. Past experience makes me extremely wary, both of
intention and of that special kind of accident where someone's badly
chosen language hangs around in a discussion for too long and starts to
colour what is or isn't considered acceptable. I was once rather miffed to
be accused of &quot;political correctness&quot; for saying &quot;non-straight&quot; rather
than &quot;gay&quot; when the former was what I meant and the latter
overly-specific.

&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Please understand: you are seriously worrying people here. This is not a
&gt; &gt; game, and your attempts to steer the conversation away from places you're
&gt; &gt; not comfortable you can represent yourself accurately are causing genuine
&gt; &gt; distress.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; Agreed. So in effect what you need is straight answers to:
&gt;
&gt; a) do you want to censor the group?
&gt; b) do you want to have moderation on the group?
&gt; c) do you want neither of the above but to ban certain topics?
&gt;

And also:

d) do you want discussion of certain topics to be discouraged, or for more
subtle limits on such discussion to be encouraged?

Which is around the point that talking about parental control filters and
suitability for children starts to worry me.

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

Ivanova is always right.
I will listen to Ivanova.
I will not ignore Ivanova's recomendations.
Ivanova is God.
And, if this ever happens again, Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out!

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#324: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:42:25 by Brenda

Arthur Hagen said:

&gt; Ah. So they're bright enough to choose good books because dad makes
&gt; certain
&gt; that they won't have the option to stumble onto other books...

They have access to the school library, the municipal library, and the
bookshops in town.

&gt; How... liberal of you.

How... inappropriately sarcastic of you.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#325: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:44:49 by Stacie Hanes

Karen wrote:
&gt; We all come to this group for recreation, a bit of gutter now and
&gt; again is harmless enough but we do *share* the spaces and when one
&gt; person's enjoyable gutter or another person's hot button topic
&gt; takes over the whole damned watering hole then we *all* lose out.

What I'd like is a detailed map of where the gutter is.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#326: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:44:50 by Stacie Hanes

Peter Ellis wrote:

&gt; third is a request for the group to get out of the gutter - but
&gt; with a refusal to define the gutter, how to get into or out of the
&gt; gutter

EXACTLY. Where's the gutter. I want latitude, longitude, depth, and a water
sample.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#327: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:44:59 by Kar98

On 2006-06-01 15:31:48 -0500, &quot;Arthur Hagen&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt; said:

&gt; The Stainless Steel Cat &lt;<a href="mailto:steelcat&#64;atuin.demon.co.uk" target="_blank">steelcat&#64;atuin.demon.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; In article &lt;nJGfg.7743$<a href="mailto:921.2833&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">921.2833&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
&gt;&gt; &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Would you like to see the pictures? One of them that I made last
&gt;&gt;&gt; night is posed like the Venus de Milo.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Well, that sounds 'armless enough.
&gt;
&gt; A marbleous picture, I'm sure.

You better hope that statchoo of limmertations runs out on that one fast.



--
The short answer is &quot;Yes.&quot; The long answer is &quot;No.&quot;

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#328: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:45:06 by Brenda

CCA said:

&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; (Thanks for responding intelligently, Philippa. It makes a
&gt;&gt; pleasant change. And anyone who is offended by that, deserves to be.)
&gt;
&gt; You know, Richard, for an otherwise likeable guy, you certainly come
&gt; across as a headmaster talking to naughty children sometimes.

What's up? You don't like headmasters?

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#329: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:46:29 by Stacie Hanes

Philippa Cowderoy wrote:

&gt; I'm not in favour of the Cult of Stacie either, and that's speaking
&gt; as someone who's really looking forward to having her visit for a
&gt; day or two after the con.

*STACIE* isn't even in favor of the Cult of Stacie. In fatc, I named it that
in an MSN discussion with Phillipa.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

Report this message

#330: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case akid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:50:07 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; CCA said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; (Thanks for responding intelligently, Philippa. It makes a
&gt; &gt;&gt; pleasant change. And anyone who is offended by that, deserves to be.)
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; You know, Richard, for an otherwise likeable guy, you certainly come
&gt; &gt; across as a headmaster talking to naughty children sometimes.
&gt;
&gt; What's up? You don't like headmasters?
&gt;

What's up is that you are not in a position of authority, yet you persist
in being patronising. On top of that, you lack vision and blame what you
can't see on others making things up.

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

There is no magic bullet. There are, however, plenty of bullets that
magically home in on feet when not used in exactly the right circumstances.

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#331: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:50:08 by Stacie Hanes

Karen wrote:

&gt; Could anyone else say if they disagree with the notion that we have
&gt; had an excess of innuendo in jokes lately and a break from them to
&gt; get back to regular channels would be rather nice?

Yes.

I don't want a &lt;censored&gt; medal for it, but:

Cult films
Buffy
Self-esteem
Movie adaptations
My trip to England

I even tried to start a pillow fight.

So I'm blowed if I know what anybody wants. (not mad at you, Karen, far
from)


--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

Report this message

#332: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:50:15 by Brenda

Karen said:

&gt; Richard could you please humour me

Sure. A horse walks into a bar, and the barman... er... oh, I see what you
mean. Okay, shoot.

&gt; and state for everyone your view on
&gt; the desirability or otherwise of a) censoring

Undesirable.

&gt; b)moderating

Undesirable.

&gt; c) barring certain topics.

Undesirable.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#333: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:52:22 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Karen wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; I've just read this thread from the top again and it is entirely possible
&gt; &gt;&gt; I'm missing posts but I can't see anywhere that Richard has actually
&gt; &gt;&gt; proposed censoring or moderating the newsgroup or asking people not to
&gt; &gt;&gt; post on sexual topics. I've seen lots of people assume that this is what
&gt; &gt;&gt; he means but I can't find him actually saying it anywhere.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; There is, however, an amount of him being rather nasty
&gt;
&gt; No, that's not nasty. That's pretty mild, compared to some of the stuff
&gt; posted in this newsgroup.

There is little more you could do beyond repeating yourself and becoming
more emphatic.

&gt; You can try for nasty if you like, but I'm not
&gt; good at nasty. I'm much better at straightforward and polite.
&gt;
&gt; Now try addressing Karen's substantive points instead of shifting the
&gt; ground.
&gt;
&gt; (Thank you, Karen. It's good to know that /some/ Terry Pratchett fans can
&gt; read.)
&gt;

This would be an example. I wasn't shifting the ground, I was pointing out
that in fact there were additional details that do explain what I and
others are perceiving.

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

There is no magic bullet. There are, however, plenty of bullets that
magically home in on feet when not used in exactly the right circumstances.

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#334: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:53:30 by Stacie Hanes

Peter Ellis wrote:
&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt; Peter Ellis said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; He's telling the naughty kids not to talk about [...]
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; No, I'm not *telling* anyone to do *anything*. Sheesh, can't you
&gt;&gt; READ?
&gt;
&gt; OK, you're *asking* the naughty kids not to talk about naughty
&gt; things, because grown-ups never flirt, or talk about sex.
&gt;

While I'm being stupid...

....if you come right down to it, I am attracted to several afpers. Even ones
I haven't seen pictures of.

I'm sufficiently unusual that I don't find a lot of people I like who also
like me. I'm not actually trolling for dates here, but if a relationship
with an afper developed, well, nifty.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

Report this message

#335: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:57:36 by Brenda

Arthur Hagen said:

&gt; If you don't think that what you said in parentheses there was nasty

Don't even /think/ about lecturing me on nasty, Mr Hagen.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#336: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 22:58:22 by Peter Ellis

Anastasia wrote:
&gt; Peter Ellis wrote:
&gt;&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Peter Ellis said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; He's telling the naughty kids not to talk about [...]
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; No, I'm not *telling* anyone to do *anything*. Sheesh, can't you
&gt;&gt;&gt; READ?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; OK, you're *asking* the naughty kids not to talk about naughty
&gt;&gt; things, because grown-ups never flirt, or talk about sex.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; While I'm being stupid...
&gt;
&gt; ...if you come right down to it, I am attracted to several afpers.
&gt; Even ones I haven't seen pictures of.
&gt;
&gt; I'm sufficiently unusual that I don't find a lot of people I like who
&gt; also like me. I'm not actually trolling for dates here, but if a
&gt; relationship with an afper developed, well, nifty.

You're telling me :-)

What's the current count on afp marriages? Well into double figures by now,
surely?

Peter (one of the list)

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#337: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:01:46 by Steve Rogers

&quot;Torak&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:M7Hfg.1250$<a href="mailto:YI3.1046&#64;amstwist00..." target="_blank">YI3.1046&#64;amstwist00...</a>
&gt; Gid Holyoake wrote:
&gt;&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:Pine.WNT.4.61.0606011927560.1072&#64;SLINKY" target="_blank">Pine.WNT.4.61.0606011927560.1072&#64;SLINKY</a>&gt;, Philippa
&gt;&gt; Cowderoy Snippetry..
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;If you do have an idea, please elaborate - and preferably without
&gt;&gt;&gt;resorting to an undefined 'gutter' or similar concept.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; If you can define the gutter it might help some of those of us who
&gt;&gt; are trying to get that high..
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Gid (I used to dream of living in a gutter)
&gt;
&gt; Luxury.

Luxury, you say luxury, why when I were a lad we used to think luxury
was living in a cold tea bag with nowt but a tea leaf to cover us heads

Steve

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#338: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:02:23 by Brenda

Philippa Cowderoy said:

&gt; What's up is that you are not in a position of authority, yet you persist
&gt; in being patronising.

No, I'm not patronising, any more than you are matronising.

&gt; On top of that, you lack vision

I'm blind? Eesh. Don't tell my eyes.

&gt; and blame what you can't see on others making things up.

If I can't see it, why should I blame it on *anything*? Why should I even
know it exists?

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#339: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:02:33 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; Arthur Hagen said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; If you don't think that what you said in parentheses there was nasty
&gt;
&gt; Don't even /think/ about lecturing me on nasty, Mr Hagen.
&gt;

I don't recall having seen him deny being nasty, which is what he's
calling you on.

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

Sometimes you gotta fight fire with fire. Most
of the time you just get burnt worse though.

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#340: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:03:58 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 01 Jun 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: Thomas Zahr &lt;<a href="mailto:ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de" target="_blank">ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de</a>&gt;

&gt; Lesley Weston posted:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; in article
&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:Xns97D4B60ECE797ThomasZahrfreenetde&#64;ID-179574.user.uni-berl" target="_blank">Xns97D4B60ECE797ThomasZahrfreenetde&#64;ID-179574.user.uni-berl</a>
&gt;&gt; i n.de, Thomas Zahr at <a href="mailto:ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de" target="_blank">ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de</a> wrote on
&gt;&gt; 31/05/2006 8:53 AM:
&gt;
&gt; ...
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; On the positive side, traffic here is *way* up.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; That may or may not be a Good Thing; there are only 24
&gt;&gt; hours in a day...
&gt;
&gt; There *was* a discussion earlier in the year bemoaning that
&gt; traffic was down.

That certainly doesn't mean we can't now bemoan that traffic
is up...

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#341: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:04:57 by Stacie Hanes

Graycat wrote:
&gt; On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 17:05:53 +0000, Richard Heathfield
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; jotted down:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Yeah, I know - but I'm not talking about moderation (a la
&gt;&gt; censorship). I'm talking about culture change, so that people are
&gt;&gt; free to discuss Pratchettesque matters without being drenched by
&gt;&gt; neighbours constantly hurling themselves into the gutter. And you
&gt;&gt; may be right about afp not being the place for that; perhaps there
&gt;&gt; are insufficiently many people who are capable of holding a
&gt;&gt; conversation without having a security gutter within easy reach. I
&gt;&gt; hope and believe that's false, but I could be wrong.
&gt;
&gt; There's a problem though - what people consider to be &quot;in
&gt; the gutter&quot; is different from person to person. I can't,
&gt; offhand, think of anything sex-related I've read on afp I
&gt; would be ashamed to let someone in my family see. Some I
&gt; find embarassing/cringeworthy [1], but that's because of the
&gt; quality of the jokes rather than the sexual content.
&gt;
&gt; I also think that sex a natural and healthy part of adult
&gt; life, and as such something that shouldn't be hidden away.
&gt; Open dialogue with children is, imo, the best way to ensure
&gt; they don't get any funny ideas. Children are exposed to
&gt; sexual innuendo _everywhere_ nowadays, most of it, probably,
&gt; passes them right by since they don't have the experiences
&gt; neccesary to understand.
&gt;
&gt; I also don't see mentions of bondange any worse than
&gt; mentions of under-the-covers-with-the-lights-out-missionary
&gt; sex.
&gt;
&gt; Violence, I find a lot more harmful than sex. Can we ban
&gt; people from suggesting blasting burglars to bits? Or burning
&gt; heretics? Or this incessant talk about swords?
&gt;
&gt; So, where does the gutter begin? What is allowed? Whose
&gt; morals do we rule by?

WYMM?

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#342: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:04:57 by Stacie Hanes

The Stainless Steel Cat wrote:
&gt; In article &lt;nJGfg.7743$<a href="mailto:921.2833&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">921.2833&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
&gt; &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Would you like to see the pictures? One of them that I made last
&gt;&gt; night is posed like the Venus de Milo. Everything pubic is hidden
&gt;&gt; by water (digital water), and one breast is hidden, but one breast
&gt;&gt; is visible. It doesn't show my face.
&gt;
&gt; Well, that sounds 'armless enough.

YOMANK

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#343: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:06:22 by Arthur Hagen

Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Arthur Hagen said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; If you don't think that what you said in parentheses there was nasty
&gt;
&gt; Don't even /think/ about lecturing me on nasty, Mr Hagen.

Oh, you want to control people's /thoughts/ too? Why am I not surprised?

--
*Art

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#344: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:07:31 by Stacie Hanes

Philippa Cowderoy wrote:

&gt; There is, however, an amount of him being rather nasty about some of
&gt; what's posted while refusing to clarify what he's being nasty about.
&gt;
&gt; &quot;I wouldn't want a dog subjected to some of the stuff that's posted
&gt; here.&quot;

Yes. I would like one directly quoted example of this. Just one.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

Report this message

#345: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:08:24 by Stacie Hanes

Arthur Hagen wrote:
&gt; Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; There is, however, an amount of him being rather nasty
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; No, that's not nasty. That's pretty mild, compared to some of the
&gt;&gt; stuff posted in this newsgroup. You can try for nasty if you like,
&gt;&gt; but I'm not good at nasty. I'm much better at straightforward and
&gt;&gt; polite.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Now try addressing Karen's substantive points instead of shifting
&gt;&gt; the ground.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; (Thank you, Karen. It's good to know that /some/ Terry Pratchett
&gt;&gt; fans can read.)
&gt;
&gt; If you don't think that what you said in parentheses there was
&gt; nasty -- to the majorit of the group, even -- you have a problem we
&gt; sure can't help you with.


&quot;It's hard NOT to write satire.&quot;


points for being able to ID the source

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#346: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:09:03 by Stacie Hanes

Philippa Cowderoy wrote:
&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Arthur Hagen said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; If you don't think that what you said in parentheses there was
&gt;&gt;&gt; nasty
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Don't even /think/ about lecturing me on nasty, Mr Hagen.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I don't recall having seen him deny being nasty, which is what he's
&gt; calling you on.

Reminds me of the Lawful Good vs. Lawful Nice debate on gaming groups.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#347: Re: [M] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:09:09 by esmi

on 01/06/2006 01:17 Leo Breebaart said the following:
&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; (anybody remember the Testosterone Brigade?)

Wasn't that Emmet?

esmi

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#348: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:10:16 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 01 Jun 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: &quot;Steve Rogers&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:steve&#64;soapietrekkers.demon.co.uk" target="_blank">steve&#64;soapietrekkers.demon.co.uk</a>&gt;

&gt;
&gt; &quot;Torak&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:M7Hfg.1250$<a href="mailto:YI3.1046&#64;amstwist00..." target="_blank">YI3.1046&#64;amstwist00...</a>
&gt;&gt; Gid Holyoake wrote:

&gt;&gt;&gt; If you can define the gutter it might help some of those
&gt;&gt;&gt; of us who are trying to get that high..
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Gid (I used to dream of living in a gutter)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Luxury.
&gt;
&gt; Luxury, you say luxury, why when I were a lad we used to
&gt; think luxury was living in a cold tea bag with nowt but a
&gt; tea leaf to cover us heads

Pah, we'd 'ave given our eye-teeth for a tea bag. Only we
couldn't, 'cos we didn't 'ave no eye-teeth in my day, neither.

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#349: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:10:55 by newsgroupname

In message &lt;<a href="mailto:MPG.1ee9555da03accb3989c5d&#64;cenote.gkhs.net" target="_blank">MPG.1ee9555da03accb3989c5d&#64;cenote.gkhs.net</a>&gt;, Eric Jarvis
&lt;<a href="mailto:usenet&#64;ericjarvis.co.uk" target="_blank">usenet&#64;ericjarvis.co.uk</a>&gt; writes
&gt;Alec Cawley <a href="mailto:alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk" target="_blank">alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk</a> wrote in
&gt;&lt;<a href="mailto:MPG.1ee9425be7de692e989ca5&#64;news.individual.net" target="_blank">MPG.1ee9425be7de692e989ca5&#64;news.individual.net</a>&gt;:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Sex is inherently one of the funniest subject to talk about. Not as
&gt;&gt; funny as the amount it is talked about, so that most jokes about sex are
&gt;&gt; unoriginal. But the sheer complecity and ridiculousness of human
&gt;&gt; courting and mating behaviour give lot of opportunity for wit, and I for
&gt;&gt; one would not want genuine wit to be stifled by the fear that a child
&gt;&gt; might see it (possible), understhand it (improbable) and be harmed by it
&gt;&gt; (very unlikely).
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;Absolutely. Sex is inherently one of the funniest subject to talk about.
&gt;Though not nearly as hilarious as it is to actually do.
&gt;
Laughing your way into bed is good, pointing and laughing once there is
less so. Although I do have a soft spot for Sailor Jim's &quot;Boingy boingy
boingy&quot; anecdote.
--
A Willis (ali from #afp). Reply-to is valid, afpers works better.
Lurker and Occasional Meet Quotefile Fodder
Unintentional Innuendo and Useless Information A Speciality

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#350: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:14:45 by Stacie Hanes

Peter Ellis wrote:
&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt; Peter Ellis wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Peter Ellis said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; He's telling the naughty kids not to talk about [...]
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; No, I'm not *telling* anyone to do *anything*. Sheesh, can't you
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; READ?
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; OK, you're *asking* the naughty kids not to talk about naughty
&gt;&gt;&gt; things, because grown-ups never flirt, or talk about sex.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; While I'm being stupid...
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; ...if you come right down to it, I am attracted to several afpers.
&gt;&gt; Even ones I haven't seen pictures of.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I'm sufficiently unusual that I don't find a lot of people I like
&gt;&gt; who also like me. I'm not actually trolling for dates here, but if
&gt;&gt; a relationship with an afper developed, well, nifty.
&gt;
&gt; You're telling me :-)
&gt;
&gt; What's the current count on afp marriages? Well into double
&gt; figures by now, surely?

And I had a year-long relationship with peachy.

Was there anyone here who hadn't figured out that we were a couple for a
long time? We broke up last August, but we're still friends.

We met here on afp, and it was one of the most enriching experiences I've
ever had.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#351: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:18:06 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 01 Jun 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt;


&gt; &quot;It's hard NOT to write satire.&quot;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; points for being able to ID the source

I'm going to guess at either Ian Hislop or, um, Juvenile (I
know that's spelt wrong, but I'm not going to Google it, 'cos
that'd be cheating).

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#352: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:18:30 by Arthur Hagen

Daibhid Ceanaideach &lt;<a href="mailto:daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; The time: 01 Jun 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
&gt; speaker: Thomas Zahr &lt;<a href="mailto:ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de" target="_blank">ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de</a>&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; There *was* a discussion earlier in the year bemoaning that
&gt;&gt; traffic was down.
&gt;
&gt; That certainly doesn't mean we can't now bemoan that traffic
&gt; is up...

Nothing wrong with a little up and down and moaning...

Regards,
--
*Art

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#353: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:21:00 by Arthur Hagen

Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Philippa Cowderoy wrote:
&gt;&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Arthur Hagen said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; If you don't think that what you said in parentheses there was
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; nasty
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Don't even /think/ about lecturing me on nasty, Mr Hagen.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I don't recall having seen him deny being nasty, which is what he's
&gt;&gt; calling you on.
&gt;
&gt; Reminds me of the Lawful Good vs. Lawful Nice debate on gaming groups.

At least those of us who are chaotic neutral fess up to it.

--
*Art

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#354: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:21:20 by Brenda

Arthur Hagen said:

&gt; Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; Arthur Hagen said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; If you don't think that what you said in parentheses there was nasty
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Don't even /think/ about lecturing me on nasty, Mr Hagen.
&gt;
&gt; Oh, you want to control people's /thoughts/ too?

No, not really. That's their job, not mine.

&gt; Why am I not surprised?

You should never be surprised when you're wrong, Mr Hagen.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#355: Re: [F] Reincarnation of the afp-junior list?

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:22:15 by esmi

on 01/06/2006 16:18 Karen said the following:
&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; Although if I were starting from scratch now, I'd be tempted to consider
&gt; a moderated web forum format as an option simply because that is a more
&gt; familiar format to most kids now. (yes I know, burn the heretic!)

I'd agree with the web forum idea - although I hate them myself.
However, past experience with 2 teenage males suggests that email is
considered as some form of punishment. Show them a web forum and you
can't shut the little b^Hdarlings up.

Son No.2 (aged 14) has to be almost forced to email anyone but has run
his own web forum for the past year or so and is an active participant
in a few others.

esmi

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#356: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:23:23 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 01 Jun 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt;


&gt; And I had a year-long relationship with peachy.
&gt;
&gt; Was there anyone here who hadn't figured out that we were a
&gt; couple for a long time? We broke up last August, but we're
&gt; still friends.

Well, I didn't have a clue, but I think my lack of awareness,
both in general and in such matters in particular, has been
well documented on the group 8-/...

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#357: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:23:56 by jester

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 22:10:55 +0100, A Willis
&lt;<a href="mailto:newsgroupname&#64;asphalt.demon.co.uk" target="_blank">newsgroupname&#64;asphalt.demon.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&lt;trim&gt;
&gt;Laughing your way into bed is good, pointing and laughing once there is
&gt;less so.

It depends what you're pointing at laughing at, whether or not all parties
involved are laughing.

--
Andy Brown
C, n.: A programming language that is sort of like Pascal except more
like assembly except that it isn't very much like either one, or
anything else. It is either the best language available to the art
today, or it isn't. -- Ray Simard

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#358: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:25:26 by Hendrik Schober

Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Karen wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; I've just read this thread from the top again and it is entirely possible
&gt; &gt; &gt; I'm missing posts but I can't see anywhere that Richard has actually
&gt; &gt; &gt; proposed censoring or moderating the newsgroup or asking people not to
&gt; &gt; &gt; post on sexual topics. I've seen lots of people assume that this is what
&gt; &gt; &gt; he means but I can't find him actually saying it anywhere.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; There is, however, an amount of him being rather nasty
&gt;
&gt; No, that's not nasty. That's pretty mild, compared to some of the stuff
&gt; posted in this newsgroup. [...]

You might find that you there's not many people here
sharing your opinion on that.

&gt; Now try addressing Karen's substantive points instead of shifting the
&gt; ground.

Shifting the ground? Now, who was accused of that a
lot recently...

&gt; (Thank you, Karen. It's good to know that /some/ Terry Pratchett fans can
&gt; read.)

Ouch.
(Whenever logic fails, resort to name-calling?)

Schobi

--
<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a> is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

&quot;The sarcasm is mightier than the sword.&quot;
Eric Jarvis

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#359: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:25:49 by Arthur Hagen

Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &quot;It's hard NOT to write satire.&quot;
&gt;
&gt; points for being able to ID the source

I refuse, because asking juveniles for ID would be appeasing the moral
right...

Regards,
--
*Art

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#360: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:26:19 by Stacie Hanes

A Willis wrote:
&gt; In message &lt;<a href="mailto:MPG.1ee9555da03accb3989c5d&#64;cenote.gkhs.net" target="_blank">MPG.1ee9555da03accb3989c5d&#64;cenote.gkhs.net</a>&gt;, Eric Jarvis


&gt;&gt; Absolutely. Sex is inherently one of the funniest subject to talk
&gt;&gt; about. Though not nearly as hilarious as it is to actually do.
&gt;&gt;
&gt; Laughing your way into bed is good, pointing and laughing once
&gt; there is less so. Although I do have a soft spot for Sailor Jim's
&gt; &quot;Boingy boingy boingy&quot; anecdote.


Actually, I've had wonderful sex while barely being able to do anything but
giggle.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#361: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:27:01 by Stacie Hanes

Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; So I argue that I know what plonk means at least as much as you do.
&gt;
&gt; Well, I was the one who used the word in this case. Presumably I
&gt; know what I meant by it.

One does presume that, yes. But as we're discussing, you're not so good at
telling the rest of us what you mean.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#362: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:27:56 by Stacie Hanes

CCA wrote:
&gt; peachy ashie passion wrote:
&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; perhaps there are insufficiently many people who
&gt;&gt;&gt; are capable of holding a conversation without having a security
&gt;&gt;&gt; gutter within easy reach. I hope and believe that's false, but I
&gt;&gt;&gt; could be wrong.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I am struggling not to feel insulted here, and mostly losing.
&gt;
&gt; Pretty much my reaction, but I'm struggling not to reply to Richard
&gt; anymore as there seem to be plenty of people expressing views I
&gt; agree with.
&gt; CCA

I lost, threw caution to the wind, and am going to start keeping score.

Well, not really, but I felt like saying it.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#363: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:29:11 by Hendrik Schober

Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Peter Ellis said:
&gt; &gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; &gt; &gt; Peter Ellis said:
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; He's telling the naughty kids not to talk about [...]
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; No, I'm not *telling* anyone to do *anything*. Sheesh, can't you READ?
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; OK, you're *asking* the naughty kids not to talk about naughty things,
&gt; &gt; because grown-ups never flirt, or talk about sex.
&gt;
&gt; As long as you would rather mock than understand, there is no point in this
&gt; dialogue.

As long as you only go nudge-nudge-wink-wink without
actually saying what you mean, there's no point.

&gt; &gt; It's still just as stupid. &quot;Why can't we all only talk about the things I
&gt; &gt; deem worthy of being talked about&quot; is not an attitude that works on any
&gt; &gt; unmoderated group.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; I don't want my kids exposed to prudery.
&gt;
&gt; You shouldn't have any trouble protecting them from that.

He'd have to make sure they killfile you.

&gt; But to dismiss my
&gt; arguments as &quot;prudery&quot; is naive.

He's not dismissed them, but classified. And rightly so,
IMO.

&gt; &gt; Please do not discuss the fact
&gt; &gt; that you feel we should not discuss particular subjects on afp.
&gt;
&gt; Nice try at irony, but I haven't expressed any such feeling or desire. Or,
&gt; to put it another way: Sheesh, can't you READ?

Looking at how everybody is raised by this, you should
probably rather ask whether you can /write/.

Schobi

--
<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a> is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

&quot;The sarcasm is mightier than the sword.&quot;
Eric Jarvis

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#364: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:29:19 by Brenda

Daibhid Ceanaideach said:

&gt; The time: 01 Jun 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
&gt; speaker: &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; &quot;It's hard NOT to write satire.&quot;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; points for being able to ID the source
&gt;
&gt; I'm going to guess at either Ian Hislop or, um, Juvenile (I
&gt; know that's spelt wrong, but I'm not going to Google it, 'cos
&gt; that'd be cheating).

To save you the trouble, you are probably thinking of Juvenal, author of the
&quot;Satires&quot;.

And to save you further trouble, you can say what you like about my snapping
at Arthur Hagen; I am past caring. Everyone here says how amazing it is
that I manage to keep my temper so well when conducting a discussion with
the entire group single-handed. Well, you can stop being amazed, as far as
Mr Hagen is concerned. His constantly uncomprehending stupidity would be
fair enough in isolation; his sarcasm would also be fair enough in
isolation; but the combination is most infuriating.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#365: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:33:24 by Lister

On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 16:31:25 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;<a href="mailto:geminii&#64;tpg.com.au" target="_blank">geminii&#64;tpg.com.au</a> wrote:
&gt;&gt; On 31 May 2006 13:24:46 -0700, &quot;CCA&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; It means you've been turning into Stacie at night, like Jekyll and
&gt;&gt;&gt; Hyde ;-) Or possibly the other way around...
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; OK, I didn't need the phrase &quot;were-Stacie&quot; stumbling around in my
&gt;&gt; head and tripping over the furniture.
&gt;
&gt;I find that intriguing and slightly boggling. Gods know I've bitten enough
&gt;people.


Do you find they taste like chicken?

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#366: Re: [I]Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:34:46 by Stacie Hanes

The Stainless Steel Cat wrote:
&gt; In article &lt;e5nh90$f1t$<a href="mailto:1&#64;tree.broomstick.com" target="_blank">1&#64;tree.broomstick.com</a>&gt;,
&gt; &quot;Arthur Hagen&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Karen &lt;<a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Probably says a lot about the recent threads that my pun
&gt;&gt;&gt; defenders had switched off but that has to be the most appalling
&gt;&gt;&gt; pun I've seen here in months.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; There is a fine box you know!
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Tsk. Can't say &quot;fine box&quot;, you know -- people could see an
&gt;&gt; Innuendo!
&gt;
&gt; Not without an innuendoscope.

It took me ten years to figure out why it was funny when my boot camp drill
instructor said &quot;I don't have the cherry, but I have the box it came in&quot;

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#367: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:36:49 by Stacie Hanes

Lister wrote:
&gt; On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 16:31:25 GMT, &quot;Anastasia&quot;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:geminii&#64;tpg.com.au" target="_blank">geminii&#64;tpg.com.au</a> wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; On 31 May 2006 13:24:46 -0700, &quot;CCA&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; It means you've been turning into Stacie at night, like Jekyll
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and Hyde ;-) Or possibly the other way around...
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; OK, I didn't need the phrase &quot;were-Stacie&quot; stumbling around in my
&gt;&gt;&gt; head and tripping over the furniture.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I find that intriguing and slightly boggling. Gods know I've
&gt;&gt; bitten enough people.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Do you find they taste like chicken?

I've never bitten live chickens, or cooked people, so no.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#368: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case akid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:38:39 by esmi

on 01/06/2006 19:59 Gid Holyoake said the following:

&gt; If you can define the gutter it might help some of those of us who are
&gt; trying to get that high..

&gt; Gid (I used to dream of living in a gutter)

Gutter? Gutter! Some of us would have given our right arm to have
dreamed of a gutter. We had to go to bed *every* night and dream of the
Seven Pits of Hell.

esmi

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#369: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:40:35 by Thomas Zahr

naomi posted:

&gt; CCA wrote:
&gt;&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Thomas Zahr wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; OTGH we do seem to be just below the threshold of a new
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;temple&quot; or similar centred around &quot;Stacie-dom&quot; [1] and
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; all variations thereof.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Don't think that Stacie hasn't noticed. Stacie can't deny
&gt;&gt;&gt; enjoying the attention, to a point, but Stacie has also
&gt;&gt;&gt; started several serious threads in the past week or so in
&gt;&gt;&gt; an effort to change the subject.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I felt the same a few years ago, when the amount of 'CCA'
&gt;&gt; and 'things to do with gold or chocolate' threads had got
&gt;&gt; to the point where I got the impression that some people
&gt;&gt; were starting to resent me being around
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So we have to ask ourselves, ok don't have to, but at
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; least could, if we could up the content, and move off
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;stacie-dom&quot;, slightly.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Yes, please, just a bit.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I'd been wondering if it was sometimes making you feel a
&gt;&gt; mite uncomfortable.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [2] but in a certain light Stacie seems to have become
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the sex
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; dream of choice hereabouts
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Honestly, I am *not* sure how that happened. (I gotta
&gt;&gt;&gt; share that I originally typoed &quot;sore&quot; instead of sure.)
&gt;&gt;&gt; [3]
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I think it's one of those things that just builds up and
&gt;&gt; up, often without very much encouragement from the poster
&gt;&gt; herself (or himself, although I can't remember the same
&gt;&gt; happening to a male poster here.) CCA
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Oh,Damn. I just started a chocolate thread. I hadn't read
&gt; this yet sorry.
&gt;

Chocolate threads are semi-R hereabouts. So don't worry.

--
Ciao

Thomas =:-)
&lt;out of sig error&gt;

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#370: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:41:37 by Steve Rogers

&quot;The Stainless Steel Cat&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:steelcat&#64;atuin.demon.co.uk" target="_blank">steelcat&#64;atuin.demon.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:C0A4F67096687C76B&#64;192.168.0.2..." target="_blank">C0A4F67096687C76B&#64;192.168.0.2...</a>
&gt; In article &lt;8BFfg.760$<a href="mailto:jB5.449&#64;newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">jB5.449&#64;newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
&gt; &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that there is a much-expressed desire for a Pratchett fan group
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; which people needn't be embarrassed to read while their family are
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; in the room.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; What size font are you reading in?
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; 12-point courier. Large enough for me to read, and therefore
&gt;&gt;&gt; certainly large enough for younger eyes to read.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Or do they just read over your shoulder?
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; They don't need to. It's a big monitor, and it faces the room.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;How close are they? And how long do they glance? Seriously, I do not
&gt;&gt;get
&gt;&gt;this problem.
&gt;
&gt; And shouldn't they be taught that it's extremely rude to read someone
&gt; else's correspondence or reading matter, whether that's on a computer
&gt; screen, newspaper, book or letter?
&gt;

Seconded, my 2 eldest have learnt that when Daddy is typing and hasn't
asked them to join him then don't come over and read what he's writing
(they're just getting proficient enough in the reading now to understand
some of what I write). Books are another matter as I'm happy to read to
them and nothing I read would I not let them read, in some instances
they don't understand the jokes in others the language and concepts are
way over their heads and they soon get bored, for example I've just
finished reading them the last Harry Potter and each got out of it what
they understood, for the youngest it was the &quot;silly voices&quot; I used for
each character, for the middle one the thrill and adventure aspect and
the eldest all but the more advanced topics and concepts. I will say I
don't encourage the reading over the shoulder mind, they sit beside me,
lay on their beds or sit on my lap and follow the words. Letters are a
distinctly private thing that is okay to read if given permission and
only those bits that I pick out - they won't even read the message on a
postcard that isn't addressed to them (yet) and as for newspapers that's
not a problem as I don't get them :-)

Steve

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#371: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:41:48 by Hendrik Schober

Graycat &lt;<a href="mailto:graycat.meow&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">graycat.meow&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; [...]
&gt; I also think that sex a natural and healthy part of adult
&gt; life, and as such something that shouldn't be hidden away.
&gt; Open dialogue with children is, imo, the best way to ensure
&gt; they don't get any funny ideas. [...]
&gt;
&gt; Violence, I find a lot more harmful than sex. Can we ban
&gt; people from suggesting blasting burglars to bits? Or burning
&gt; heretics? Or this incessant talk about swords?

&lt;applauds&gt;

&gt; [...]

Schobi

--
<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a> is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

&quot;The sarcasm is mightier than the sword.&quot;
Eric Jarvis

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#372: Re: [F] Reincarnation of the afp-junior list?

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:44:41 by Lister

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 17:39:09 +0100, Karen &lt;<a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;In article &lt;<a href="mailto:rr3u72djjb6qh7embj78n6kk6i0jc4emcv&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">rr3u72djjb6qh7embj78n6kk6i0jc4emcv&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;, Lister
&gt;&lt;<a href="mailto:fache&#64;SPAMclara.net" target="_blank">fache&#64;SPAMclara.net</a>&gt; writes
&gt;&gt;On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 16:18:43 +0100, Karen &lt;<a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Although if I were starting from scratch now, I'd be tempted to consider
&gt;&gt;&gt;a moderated web forum format as an option simply because that is a more
&gt;&gt;&gt;familiar format to most kids now. (yes I know, burn the heretic!)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Can I be the first one to object? I've always hated moderation and
&gt;&gt;don't wish to subject anyone to it. Mind you, I'm happy to go along
&gt;&gt;with anything.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;Did you actually read the subject line?



Er, yes, and?

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#373: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:44:59 by Arthur Hagen

Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; And to save you further trouble, you can say what you like about my
&gt; snapping at Arthur Hagen; I am past caring. Everyone here says how
&gt; amazing it is that I manage to keep my temper so well when conducting
&gt; a discussion with the entire group single-handed. Well, you can stop
&gt; being amazed, as far as Mr Hagen is concerned. His constantly
&gt; uncomprehending stupidity would be fair enough in isolation; his
&gt; sarcasm would also be fair enough in isolation; but the combination
&gt; is most infuriating.

R.H. is *soo* cute when he's angry, don't you think?

--
*Art

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#374: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:45:51 by Hendrik Schober

Eric Jarvis &lt;<a href="mailto:usenet&#64;ericjarvis.co.uk" target="_blank">usenet&#64;ericjarvis.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; [...] Being embarrassed about inviting your mother to a place is not
&gt; solely about your mother, it is at least as much about what you are
&gt; prepared to show your mother about yourself.

Very well said.

&gt; To a large extent the same applies to much that people wish to protect
&gt; children from seeing. At least some of it is down to preferring to avoid
&gt; having to explain some things the children won't have encountered before
&gt; rather than to avoid them being harmed directly.
&gt;
&gt; I'm not saying that's wrong in any way. It's quite reasonable. However it
&gt; helps to be clearly aware of precisely what the issues are.

I'd go even further and say it's wrong in many cases.
My daughter (9) a while ago asked me why there's always
naked women to be seen and rarely ever naked men (in
advertizing, on magazine covers etc.). My mother, who
was with us, seemed terrified at the question. I just
explained the issue in a way that a 9 year old could
understand and she was satisfied.
When my kids stumble over BDSM, they will hopefully
also come to their parents and ask what that is.

I am much more concerned about my kids being exposed
to violence than to any variation of sex.

Schobi

--
<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a> is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

&quot;The sarcasm is mightier than the sword.&quot;
Eric Jarvis

Report this message

#375: Re: [F] Reincarnation of the afp-junior list?

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:46:46 by Lister

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 18:55:53 +0100, &quot;Steve Rogers&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:steve&#64;soapietrekkers.demon.co.uk" target="_blank">steve&#64;soapietrekkers.demon.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;
&gt;&quot;Lister&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:fache&#64;SPAMclara.net" target="_blank">fache&#64;SPAMclara.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt;news:<a href="mailto:rr3u72djjb6qh7embj78n6kk6i0jc4emcv&#64;4ax.com..." target="_blank">rr3u72djjb6qh7embj78n6kk6i0jc4emcv&#64;4ax.com...</a>
&gt;&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 16:18:43 +0100, Karen &lt;<a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Although if I were starting from scratch now, I'd be tempted to
&gt;&gt;&gt;consider
&gt;&gt;&gt;a moderated web forum format as an option simply because that is a
&gt;&gt;&gt;more
&gt;&gt;&gt;familiar format to most kids now. (yes I know, burn the heretic!)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Can I be the first one to object? I've always hated moderation and
&gt;&gt; don't wish to subject anyone to it. Mind you, I'm happy to go along
&gt;&gt; with anything.
&gt;
&gt;For a kids only forum you need a moderator for sure though considering
&gt;how things can degenerate and to protect the kids from those that would
&gt;abuse it.
&gt;
&gt;Steve
&gt;


Hmm, I'm kind of against kids being moderated.

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#376: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:48:46 by Torak

Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; peachy ashie passion said:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Richard, a thought.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; If you reach the point where NOBODY seems able to grasp your points,
&gt;&gt;it's time to consider whether the fault might be with the transmission,
&gt;&gt;rather than every single one of the receivers.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I'll bear that in mind. For now, though, it seems that, at the very least,
&gt; Karen, Eric Jarvis, Torak, and Orjan Westin can understand what I'm saying,
&gt; so I don't see why anyone else shouldn't be able to, if they want to.

I think a lot of us understand your basic point, and that, if you have
the time and effort to put into it, it may be worth trying to start a
Kiddie AFP. But I think trying to turn AFP into a kid-friendly (I won't
say &quot;family-friendly&quot;, because I think that, with appropriate
supervision, it already is) group is pretty much a lost cause. It never
has been, and I don't think it would still be AFP if it was.

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#377: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:49:22 by exquisite witch peachy

Karen wrote:

&gt; In article &lt;azHfg.14839$<a href="mailto:U_2.11424&#64;trnddc05" target="_blank">U_2.11424&#64;trnddc05</a>&gt;, peachy ashie passion
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:exquisitepeach&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">exquisitepeach&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; writes
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Karen wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:Pine.WNT.4.61.0606011938290.1072&#64;SLINKY" target="_blank">Pine.WNT.4.61.0606011938290.1072&#64;SLINKY</a>&gt;, Philippa
&gt;&gt;&gt; Cowderoy &lt;<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>&gt; writes
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; [..]
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; *I CAN'T TELL IF YOU'RE TRYING TO DISCUSS WHETHER I SHOULD HAVE TO HIDE
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; WHO I AM ON THIS NEWSGROUP, AND YOU ARE STEADFASTLY REFUSING TO HELP
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ANSWER THAT QUESTION*.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I can tell you what I think the point is or how I read the posts
&gt;&gt;&gt; and that is nothing to do with censoring topics or individuals and
&gt;&gt;&gt; more to do with all of us whatever we are giving a bit of general
&gt;&gt;&gt; thought as to what we are posting and how interesting it is to the
&gt;&gt;&gt; rest of the group.
&gt;&gt;&gt; Granted if that is what Richard means its a fairly cack handed way
&gt;&gt;&gt; of explaining it but that is how I understand his words.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I applaud your efforts to be sympathetic to Richard.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; What efforts would they be then? I'm trying to understand what exactly
&gt; is being said rather than assuming I know someone's mind better than
&gt; they do. Try reading the other posts and further down this one, I think
&gt; Richard could be a lot clearer and I've said as much.
&gt;

I read all of the posts before making any.

But it seems to me that trying to understand someone's point so hard
that you ignore their actual words is an effort.


&gt;
&gt;&gt; I can't find one single interpretation of that which would involve
&gt;&gt; needing to use the words:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &quot;I'm talking about culture change, so that people are free to discuss
&gt;&gt; Pratchettesque matters without being drenched by neighbours constantly
&gt;&gt; hurling themselves into the gutter. And you may be right about afp not
&gt;&gt; being the place for that; perhaps there are insufficiently many people
&gt;&gt; who are capable of holding a conversation without having a security
&gt;&gt; gutter within easy reach.&quot;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I've seen at least four or five other people including me post today, to
&gt; the effect that the balance and tone is out of kilter and that the
&gt; endless nudge nudge innuendo threads are at least as tedious as the
&gt; vampire threads on religion when they reach the levels they have done
&gt; recently. None of us have been bollocked for it in fact there has been
&gt; quite a lot of agreement that its been excessive lately. You might not
&gt; like the way Richard phrases it, it certainly isn't going to score any
&gt; points on the 'make friends and influence people' and frankly isn't the
&gt; way to go about persuading people IMHO but it does *not* say 'I want to
&gt; censor/moderate/ban topics on this newsgroup' and to suggest otherwise
&gt; is putting words into his mouth in precisely the way people object to it
&gt; the other way around.

The man just told the bulk of us we are in the gutter and use it as a
security blanket. Incapable of holding a conversation without the
security gutter? !?


&gt;
&gt; We all come to this group for recreation, a bit of gutter now and again
&gt; is harmless enough but we do *share* the spaces and when one person's
&gt; enjoyable gutter or another person's hot button topic takes over the
&gt; whole damned watering hole then we *all* lose out.


And that's a fine point.

I don't see where you can show it being the point Richard was making,
at least, not until you reframed it as the point he SHOULD be making.

IMO, it isn't at all the point he wanted to be making, and he's
backing down from the one he'd wanted to make in the beginning.

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#378: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:50:46 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 01 Jun 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt;

&gt; Daibhid Ceanaideach said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; The time: 01 Jun 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
&gt;&gt; speaker: &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;It's hard NOT to write satire.&quot;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; points for being able to ID the source
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I'm going to guess at either Ian Hislop or, um, Juvenile
&gt;&gt; (I know that's spelt wrong, but I'm not going to Google
&gt;&gt; it, 'cos that'd be cheating).
&gt;
&gt; To save you the trouble, you are probably thinking of
&gt; Juvenal, author of the &quot;Satires&quot;.

Thank you, yes.

&gt; And to save you further trouble, you can say what you like
&gt; about my snapping at Arthur Hagen; I am past caring.

I wasn't planning on doing so. I may disagree with you (or I
may not; I've skipped a lot of this thread and I'm not sure
what the context was), but it would be incredibly hypocritical
of me to criticise anyone for losing their rag with Arthur...

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#379: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:51:21 by Brenda

Hendrik Schober said:

&gt; Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; (Thank you, Karen. It's good to know that /some/ Terry Pratchett fans can
&gt;&gt; read.)
&gt;
&gt; Ouch.
&gt; (Whenever logic fails, resort to name-calling?)

What's &quot;name-calling&quot; about it? Read the thread again. See for yourself.
This isn't a failure of logic, but a failure on the part of several afp
people to read what's in front of their noses. They're not reading what I'm
actually writing.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#380: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:54:31 by Brenda

Hendrik Schober said:

&gt; Looking at how everybody is raised by this,

No, not everybody. Please try again, but first look up the word &quot;everybody&quot;.

&gt; you should probably rather ask whether you can /write/.

I can write. I checked. Twice.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#381: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:54:38 by Peter Ellis

Anastasia wrote:
&gt;
&gt; And I had a year-long relationship with peachy.
&gt;
&gt; Was there anyone here who hadn't figured out that we were a couple
&gt; for a long time?

Er, me. Do I get a prize? Or an anti-prize? Then again, I wasn't trying
to figure it out. Your business is your business. Glad you are/were/will
be happy about it, I guess.

Peter

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#382: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:55:21 by Peter Ellis

jester wrote:
&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 22:10:55 +0100, A Willis
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:newsgroupname&#64;asphalt.demon.co.uk" target="_blank">newsgroupname&#64;asphalt.demon.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &lt;trim&gt;
&gt;&gt; Laughing your way into bed is good, pointing and laughing once there
&gt;&gt; is less so.
&gt;
&gt; It depends what you're pointing at laughing at, whether or not all
&gt; parties involved are laughing.

It also depends on what you're pointing *with*...

Peter

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#383: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:57:31 by Torak

Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; Arthur Hagen said:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;If you don't think that what you said in parentheses there was nasty
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Don't even /think/ about lecturing me on nasty, Mr Hagen.

Ah, but he's raised nastiness to an Art.

Report this message

#384: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:59:05 by Torak

Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:
&gt; The time: 01 Jun 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
&gt; speaker: &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&quot;It's hard NOT to write satire.&quot;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;points for being able to ID the source
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I'm going to guess at either Ian Hislop or, um, Juvenile (I
&gt; know that's spelt wrong, but I'm not going to Google it, 'cos
&gt; that'd be cheating).

You mean Juvenal?

(And I didn't Google it either, which is mildly worrying and probably
means I shouldn't spend so much time reading &quot;How To Insult, Abuse And
Insinuate In Classical Latin&quot;...)

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#385: Re: [I]Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-01 23:59:45 by Torak

The Stainless Steel Cat wrote:
&gt; &quot;Arthur Hagen&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:art&#64;broomstick.com" target="_blank">art&#64;broomstick.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;Karen &lt;<a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Probably says a lot about the recent threads that my pun defenders had
&gt;&gt;&gt;switched off but that has to be the most appalling pun I've seen here
&gt;&gt;&gt;in months.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;There is a fine box you know!
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Tsk. Can't say &quot;fine box&quot;, you know -- people could see an Innuendo!
&gt;
&gt; Not without an innuendoscope.

In whose end?

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#386: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 00:01:07 by Thomas Zahr

treesy posted:

....

&gt; As an update, my situation has been resolved. While they
&gt; blocked afp on groups.google.com, they failed to block it
&gt; on groups.google.fr so I'm in the clear.

Http Tunnel is your friend, if you are allowed to install
anything on the machine. But it should run off an usb stick.

--
Ciao

Thomas =:-)
&lt;Mine Horn Is Exalted In Om&gt;

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#387: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 00:01:46 by Steve Rogers

&quot;Richard Heathfield&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:5dmdncKCkqmduOLZRVnyuQ&#64;bt.com..." target="_blank">5dmdncKCkqmduOLZRVnyuQ&#64;bt.com...</a>
&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Arthur Hagen said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1: If you disagree that children are at a different level, fine.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; You'll hear no argument from me against that, as I think that
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; children shouldn't be sheltered.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; But why then don't you want childrens subjected to what's here?
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I wouldn't want a dog subjected to some of the stuff that's posted
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; here.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I'm asking you directly: are you talking about me?
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; How can I be? You've never been posted here. Therefore, the answer
&gt;&gt;&gt; is self-evidently &quot;no&quot;. There is an important distinction between
&gt;&gt;&gt; subscribers and articles. I think it was Torak who made that
&gt;&gt;&gt; distinction very clear earlier today. Or possibly Orjan.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I believe that to be an evasion.
&gt;
&gt; It wasn't.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I also believe you know what I meant.
&gt;
&gt; I believe you probably were trying to find out whether I wanted you to
&gt; stop
&gt; posting to the group (but it isn't what you actually asked).
&gt;
&gt; And I don't want to stop /anyone/ posting to the group. In fact, I
&gt; would go
&gt; further - I don't want to stop anyone from /reading/ the group either.
&gt; But
&gt; some of the stuff being posted here does precisely that. The way the
&gt; group
&gt; is now, it is hardly surprising that it's being blocked by parental
&gt; control
&gt; software, as reported recently by someone else on another thread.
&gt;

The thing is the report was that a school's system blocked the group as
do a lot of school systems - generally (being very general too) this is
all the alt groups - parental control software won't block for the
content per se but will filter out those words and phrases that are used
that are in it's lexicon and so lose a few posts which would make little
difference overall. I probably have one of the most sensitive setups
for blocking the so-called adult orientated content on the net (and
still a hell of a lot is accessible if you know how to get around the
blocks and filtering processes) and I am hard pushed to filter out posts
to a group without blocking all the alt groups at that level, if I block
actual content it is at the newsreader point not on the incoming feed so
to say that Parental Control Software is blocking the group because of
some of the content would be erroneous in my opinion.

Steve

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#388: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-02 00:02:22 by Diane L

CCA wrote:
&gt; Eric Jarvis wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Why on earth would I be embarrassed to invite my mother to afp?
&gt;&gt; Apart from the small details that she hasn't read any of the books
&gt;&gt; yet and doesn't own a computer.
&gt;
&gt; I often tell my Mum things from afp. In fact, she often asks how
&gt; everyone is when I switch it off :-)

Aww, that's nice. Tell your Mum I said &quot;Hello&quot;.

My Mum's convinced that Usenet/the Internet (which the same thing
in her view) is the sole preserve of sex fiends, axe murderers and
low-lifes in general. She was terrified when I went to my first meet,
I had to ring her afterwards to tell her I was OK. Even though she's
met some of the friends I've made through afp and liked them, she
still thinks everyone on t'Internet must be a weirdo (including me,
I suppose).

Diane L.

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#389: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-02 00:03:12 by Torak

Anastasia wrote:
&gt; Arthur Hagen wrote:
&gt;&gt;Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Well, in point of fact, Peachy is the only person here who has met
&gt;&gt;&gt;me in person..
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;How do you know?
&gt;
&gt; Well, damn. You have a point.

Well, you'd recognise Rocky.

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#390: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 00:03:52 by Brenda

peachy ashie passion said:

&gt; But it seems to me that trying to understand someone's point so hard
&gt; that you ignore their actual words is an effort.

No, she's reading the actual words. That's kind of the point.

&gt; The man just told the bulk of us we are in the gutter

No, I didn't say any such thing. Please read what I wrote, not what you
think I wrote.

&gt; I don't see where you can show it being the point Richard was making,
&gt; at least, not until you reframed it as the point he SHOULD be making.

I suggest you take a closer look at my reply to Eric Jarvis, early in the
thread. This demonstrates that I was fully in agreement with /his/
suggestion; he had expressed admirably what I had been struggling to
encapsulate myself.

&gt; IMO, it isn't at all the point he wanted to be making, and he's
&gt; backing down from the one he'd wanted to make in the beginning.

Well, YO about what I was thinking is wrong.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#391: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 00:05:28 by Torak

Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:
&gt; The time: 01 Jun 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
&gt; speaker: &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;And I had a year-long relationship with peachy.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Was there anyone here who hadn't figured out that we were a
&gt;&gt;couple for a long time? We broke up last August, but we're
&gt;&gt;still friends.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Well, I didn't have a clue, but I think my lack of awareness,
&gt; both in general and in such matters in particular, has been
&gt; well documented on the group 8-/...

YAMAICM£25.[1]


[1] - That's been underused lately, so there's been inflation in the
rollover.

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#392: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case akid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-02 00:06:44 by Torak

Steve Rogers wrote:
&gt; &quot;Torak&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt;&gt;Gid Holyoake wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;In article &lt;<a href="mailto:Pine.WNT.4.61.0606011927560.1072&#64;SLINKY" target="_blank">Pine.WNT.4.61.0606011927560.1072&#64;SLINKY</a>&gt;, Philippa
&gt;&gt;&gt;Cowderoy Snippetry..
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;If you do have an idea, please elaborate - and preferably without
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;resorting to an undefined 'gutter' or similar concept.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;If you can define the gutter it might help some of those of us who
&gt;&gt;&gt;are trying to get that high..
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Gid (I used to dream of living in a gutter)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Luxury.
&gt;
&gt; Luxury, you say luxury, why when I were a lad we used to think luxury
&gt; was living in a cold tea bag with nowt but a tea leaf to cover us heads

That petty cash jar must be overflowing by now.

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#393: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 00:08:00 by Matthew Seaman

&quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; writes:

&gt; Philippa Cowderoy wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; I'm not in favour of the Cult of Stacie either, and that's speaking
&gt; &gt; as someone who's really looking forward to having her visit for a
&gt; &gt; day or two after the con.
&gt;
&gt; *STACIE* isn't even in favor of the Cult of Stacie. In fatc, I named it that
&gt; in an MSN discussion with Phillipa.

Is that anything like the Cult of Kali[1], only with fewer Thugs and
more Gags?

Cheers,

Matthew


[1] Notice that Kali has -- count them -- eight limbs, and is
therefore intrinsically evil. And probably hiding in your shower.

--
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard
Flat 3
PGP: <a href="http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey" target="_blank">http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey</a> Ramsgate
Kent, CT11 9PW

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#394: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 00:10:30 by Gid Holyoake

In article &lt;6lIfg.7785$<a href="mailto:921.5637&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">921.5637&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
Anastasia generously decided to share with us..

&gt; Peter Ellis wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; third is a request for the group to get out of the gutter - but
&gt; &gt; with a refusal to define the gutter, how to get into or out of the
&gt; &gt; gutter
&gt;
&gt; EXACTLY. Where's the gutter. I want latitude, longitude, depth, and a water
&gt; sample.

I can give you a sample, but I don't think it's water to be honest.. it
might have been water at some point though..

Gid

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#395: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-02 00:12:55 by Diane L

Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; CCA said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; (Thanks for responding intelligently, Philippa. It makes a
&gt;&gt;&gt; pleasant change. And anyone who is offended by that, deserves to
&gt;&gt;&gt; be.)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; You know, Richard, for an otherwise likeable guy, you certainly come
&gt;&gt; across as a headmaster talking to naughty children sometimes.
&gt;
&gt; What's up? You don't like headmasters?

Most people who are no longer children dislike being treated or
adressed as children.

Diane L.

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#396: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 00:14:57 by Hendrik Schober

Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Hendrik Schober said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; (Thank you, Karen. It's good to know that /some/ Terry Pratchett fans can
&gt; &gt; &gt; read.)
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Ouch.
&gt; &gt; (Whenever logic fails, resort to name-calling?)
&gt;
&gt; What's &quot;name-calling&quot; about it? [...]

Now you even resort to word games! :)

&gt; This isn't a failure of logic, but a failure on the part of several afp
&gt; people to read what's in front of their noses. They're not reading what I'm
&gt; actually writing.

Right. Al(most al)l of us. Our fault. Bad us.

Schobi

--
<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a> is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

&quot;The sarcasm is mightier than the sword.&quot;
Eric Jarvis

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#397: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 00:16:30 by Hendrik Schober

Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Hendrik Schober said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Looking at how everybody is raised by this,
&gt;
&gt; No, not everybody. Please try again, but first look up the word &quot;everybody&quot;.

Now, this posting it's being literally again, isn't it?

&gt; &gt; you should probably rather ask whether you can /write/.
&gt;
&gt; I can write. I checked. Twice.

I am sure all of us were checked whether we can read.
Several times.

Schobi

--
<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a> is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

&quot;The sarcasm is mightier than the sword.&quot;
Eric Jarvis

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#398: Re: [F] Reincarnation of the afp-junior list?

Posted on 2006-06-02 00:18:35 by Karen

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:mtnu721lp50tu45frl9154j8noua64s62l&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">mtnu721lp50tu45frl9154j8noua64s62l&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;, Lister
&lt;<a href="mailto:fache&#64;SPAMclara.net" target="_blank">fache&#64;SPAMclara.net</a>&gt; writes
&gt;On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 17:39:09 +0100, Karen &lt;<a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;In article &lt;<a href="mailto:rr3u72djjb6qh7embj78n6kk6i0jc4emcv&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">rr3u72djjb6qh7embj78n6kk6i0jc4emcv&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;, Lister
&gt;&gt;&lt;<a href="mailto:fache&#64;SPAMclara.net" target="_blank">fache&#64;SPAMclara.net</a>&gt; writes
&gt;&gt;&gt;On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 16:18:43 +0100, Karen &lt;<a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Although if I were starting from scratch now, I'd be tempted to consider
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;a moderated web forum format as an option simply because that is a more
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;familiar format to most kids now. (yes I know, burn the heretic!)


&gt;&gt;&gt;Can I be the first one to object? I've always hated moderation and
&gt;&gt;&gt;don't wish to subject anyone to it. Mind you, I'm happy to go along
&gt;&gt;&gt;with anything.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Did you actually read the subject line?
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;Er, yes, and?

OK sorry, I thought you were joking.

On children's groups the membership is moderated to try and ensure the
members are actually children, to help out when they get stuck and to
oversee any problems which arise and ultimately to try and look out for
that tiny minority of older kids/adults whose interest isn't discussing
anything related to Pratchett. Think school dinner ladies and you won't
be far off.

I'd not have let any ten year old of mine loose on an unmoderated forum
for instance - looking back that was probably in both their interests,
there is an outside chance that #1 might have driven some of
talk.origins to jumping off a cliff.

--
Karen/hypatia <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>
New? Check <a href="http://www.lspace.org" target="_blank">http://www.lspace.org</a>
Confused? Mail the Clue Fairies at <a href="mailto:afp-help&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">afp-help&#64;lspace.org</a>
Discworld Convention 2006, August 18-21, <a href="http://www.dwcon.org" target="_blank">http://www.dwcon.org</a>

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#399: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-02 00:24:43 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 01 Jun 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: Torak &lt;<a href="mailto:perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt;

&gt; Steve Rogers wrote:
&gt;&gt; &quot;Torak&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt;&gt;&gt;Gid Holyoake wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;In article &lt;<a href="mailto:Pine.WNT.4.61.0606011927560.1072&#64;SLINKY" target="_blank">Pine.WNT.4.61.0606011927560.1072&#64;SLINKY</a>&gt;,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Philippa Cowderoy Snippetry..
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;If you do have an idea, please elaborate - and
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;preferably without resorting to an undefined 'gutter' or
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;similar concept.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;If you can define the gutter it might help some of those
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;of us who are trying to get that high..
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Gid (I used to dream of living in a gutter)
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Luxury.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Luxury, you say luxury, why when I were a lad we used to
&gt;&gt; think luxury was living in a cold tea bag with nowt but a
&gt;&gt; tea leaf to cover us heads
&gt;
&gt; That petty cash jar must be overflowing by now.

Petty cash jar? When I were a lad, if you quoted Python on the
group you were 'unted down with cats, marked for life wi' a
&quot;P&quot;, and 'ad to give *all* yer money to the Cabal[1]. 'And if
you didn't' *'ave* any money (which no-one did when I were a
lad) they fed you to the aligator.

[1]There Weren't No Cabal. But we 'ad to give them the money
*anyway*. Kids today, only 'avin' to give money to
organisations that exist, they don't know they're born...


--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#400: Re: [I] Luxury and fine (was: Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?)

Posted on 2006-06-02 00:24:44 by jester

On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 00:06:44 +0200, Torak
&lt;<a href="mailto:perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;Steve Rogers wrote:
&lt;chop&gt;
&gt;&gt; Luxury, you say luxury, why when I were a lad we used to think luxury
&gt;&gt; was living in a cold tea bag with nowt but a tea leaf to cover us heads
&gt;
&gt;That petty cash jar must be overflowing by now.

Why? It's not like it's Monty Python or anything.

--
Andy Brown
Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes and weighs
30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes and weigh
only 1 1/2 tons. ---Popular Mechanics, March 1949

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#401: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-02 00:28:32 by sphira9343

Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:

&gt; When I were a lad, if you quoted Python on the
&gt; group you were 'unted down with cats

Person &quot;Look, there's the fugitive, over there!&quot;
Cat &quot;Can't you see I'm busy washing my paw?&quot;
CCA

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#402: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-02 00:28:44 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 01 Jun 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: &quot;Diane L&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:dianenews&#64;lindquist.plus.com" target="_blank">dianenews&#64;lindquist.plus.com</a>&gt;

&gt; CCA wrote:
&gt;&gt; Eric Jarvis wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Why on earth would I be embarrassed to invite my mother
&gt;&gt;&gt; to afp? Apart from the small details that she hasn't read
&gt;&gt;&gt; any of the books yet and doesn't own a computer.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I often tell my Mum things from afp. In fact, she often
&gt;&gt; asks how everyone is when I switch it off :-)
&gt;
&gt; Aww, that's nice. Tell your Mum I said &quot;Hello&quot;.
&gt;
&gt; My Mum's convinced that Usenet/the Internet (which the same
&gt; thing in her view) is the sole preserve of sex fiends, axe
&gt; murderers and low-lifes in general. She was terrified when
&gt; I went to my first meet, I had to ring her afterwards to
&gt; tell her I was OK. Even though she's met some of the
&gt; friends I've made through afp and liked them, she still
&gt; thinks everyone on t'Internet must be a weirdo (including
&gt; me, I suppose).

My mum doesn't believe that the Internet is the sole preserve
of low-lifes. She *does* however believe that everyone on afp
is a weirdo. (This *definitely* includes me...)


--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#403: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 00:31:50 by Karen

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:4e939hF1d5pmvU1&#64;individual.net" target="_blank">4e939hF1d5pmvU1&#64;individual.net</a>&gt;, Peter Ellis
&lt;<a href="mailto:pjie2&#64;cam.ac.uk" target="_blank">pjie2&#64;cam.ac.uk</a>&gt; writes
&gt;Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt; Peter Ellis wrote:

[..]
&gt;&gt; While I'm being stupid...
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; ...if you come right down to it, I am attracted to several afpers.
&gt;&gt; Even ones I haven't seen pictures of.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I'm sufficiently unusual that I don't find a lot of people I like who
&gt;&gt; also like me. I'm not actually trolling for dates here, but if a
&gt;&gt; relationship with an afper developed, well, nifty.
&gt;
&gt;You're telling me :-)
&gt;
&gt;What's the current count on afp marriages? Well into double figures by now,
&gt;surely?


Interestingly though (to me...) most of those relationships actually
started out as afpfriendships which grew from email/online to RL
friendships to longterm relationships. For sure it hasn't always worked
out but the hit rate has been high and I often wonder if that 'being
friends first' was the key factor.


I've stopped counting marriages and other long term relationships, now
I'm just counting the afpspawn list.

&gt;
&gt;Peter (one of the list)

Yep, still on my list, good luck by proxy for Sunday.

--
Karen/hypatia <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>
New? Check <a href="http://www.lspace.org" target="_blank">http://www.lspace.org</a>
Confused? Mail the Clue Fairies at <a href="mailto:afp-help&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">afp-help&#64;lspace.org</a>
Discworld Convention 2006, August 18-21, <a href="http://www.dwcon.org" target="_blank">http://www.dwcon.org</a>

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#404: Re: [F] Reincarnation of the afp-junior list?

Posted on 2006-06-02 00:33:09 by Matthew Seaman

Lister &lt;<a href="mailto:fache&#64;SPAMclara.net" target="_blank">fache&#64;SPAMclara.net</a>&gt; writes:

&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 18:55:53 +0100, &quot;Steve Rogers&quot;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:steve&#64;soapietrekkers.demon.co.uk" target="_blank">steve&#64;soapietrekkers.demon.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&quot;Lister&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:fache&#64;SPAMclara.net" target="_blank">fache&#64;SPAMclara.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; &gt;news:<a href="mailto:rr3u72djjb6qh7embj78n6kk6i0jc4emcv&#64;4ax.com..." target="_blank">rr3u72djjb6qh7embj78n6kk6i0jc4emcv&#64;4ax.com...</a>
&gt; &gt;&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 16:18:43 +0100, Karen &lt;<a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;Although if I were starting from scratch now, I'd be tempted to
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;consider
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;a moderated web forum format as an option simply because that is a
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;more
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;familiar format to most kids now. (yes I know, burn the heretic!)
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Can I be the first one to object? I've always hated moderation and
&gt; &gt;&gt; don't wish to subject anyone to it. Mind you, I'm happy to go along
&gt; &gt;&gt; with anything.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;For a kids only forum you need a moderator for sure though considering
&gt; &gt;how things can degenerate and to protect the kids from those that would
&gt; &gt;abuse it.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;Steve
&gt; &gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Hmm, I'm kind of against kids being moderated.

No, no. It's like nuclear power stations, innit. You've got to stick
graphite rods through them, or they get over-heated and catch fire.

Cheers,

Matthew


--
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard
Flat 3
PGP: <a href="http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey" target="_blank">http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey</a> Ramsgate
Kent, CT11 9PW

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#405: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-02 00:33:43 by Brenda

Diane L said:

&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt; CCA said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (Thanks for responding intelligently, Philippa. It makes a
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; pleasant change. And anyone who is offended by that, deserves to
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; be.)
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; You know, Richard, for an otherwise likeable guy, you certainly come
&gt;&gt;&gt; across as a headmaster talking to naughty children sometimes.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; What's up? You don't like headmasters?
&gt;
&gt; Most people who are no longer children dislike being treated or
&gt; adressed as children.

I have an excellent comeback to that reply, but I am not fool enough to post
it.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#406: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 00:34:50 by Brenda

Hendrik Schober said:

&gt; I am sure all of us were checked whether we can read.
&gt; Several times.

Really.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#407: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-02 00:36:47 by sphira9343

Steve Rogers wrote:

&gt; for example I've just
&gt; finished reading them the last Harry Potter and each got out of it what
&gt; they understood, for the youngest it was the &quot;silly voices&quot; I used for
&gt; each character, for the middle one the thrill and adventure aspect and
&gt; the eldest all but the more advanced topics and concepts.

Reading to kids is a great thing to do, and *especially* with silly
voices :-)
CCA

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#408: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-02 00:41:47 by Brenda

CCA said:

&gt; Steve Rogers wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; for example I've just
&gt;&gt; finished reading them the last Harry Potter and each got out of it what
&gt;&gt; they understood, for the youngest it was the &quot;silly voices&quot; I used for
&gt;&gt; each character, for the middle one the thrill and adventure aspect and
&gt;&gt; the eldest all but the more advanced topics and concepts.
&gt;
&gt; Reading to kids is a great thing to do, and *especially* with silly
&gt; voices :-)

I did a pretty good Kee-Har, apparently, when reading Watership Down to my
children (when they were a lot younger).

I must admit it helped that I had seen the film.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#409: Re: [F] Reincarnation of the afp-junior list?

Posted on 2006-06-02 00:45:56 by Steve Rogers

&quot;Lister&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:fache&#64;SPAMclara.net" target="_blank">fache&#64;SPAMclara.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:uvnu72tf3mimqamd3jrm4lebfia1si2h62&#64;4ax.com..." target="_blank">uvnu72tf3mimqamd3jrm4lebfia1si2h62&#64;4ax.com...</a>
&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 18:55:53 +0100, &quot;Steve Rogers&quot;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:steve&#64;soapietrekkers.demon.co.uk" target="_blank">steve&#64;soapietrekkers.demon.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&quot;Lister&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:fache&#64;SPAMclara.net" target="_blank">fache&#64;SPAMclara.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt;&gt;news:<a href="mailto:rr3u72djjb6qh7embj78n6kk6i0jc4emcv&#64;4ax.com..." target="_blank">rr3u72djjb6qh7embj78n6kk6i0jc4emcv&#64;4ax.com...</a>
&gt;&gt;&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 16:18:43 +0100, Karen &lt;<a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Although if I were starting from scratch now, I'd be tempted to
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;consider
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;a moderated web forum format as an option simply because that is a
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;more
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;familiar format to most kids now. (yes I know, burn the heretic!)
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Can I be the first one to object? I've always hated moderation and
&gt;&gt;&gt; don't wish to subject anyone to it. Mind you, I'm happy to go along
&gt;&gt;&gt; with anything.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;For a kids only forum you need a moderator for sure though considering
&gt;&gt;how things can degenerate and to protect the kids from those that
&gt;&gt;would
&gt;&gt;abuse it.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Steve
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Hmm, I'm kind of against kids being moderated.

Depend on what the role of the moderator is - the guidelines for them -
I know on the Yahoo groups there are a number of kid orientated
moderated groups and their rule of thumb is that the moderators only
step in under certain pre-defined conditions that are made known to the
group on a regular basis (yeah I know who reads such anyway), they act
more like playground monitors and call a halt only when those rules are
over stepped, I think one group actually involved the kids in defining
the rules.

Steve

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#410: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 00:47:15 by sphira9343

Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; (Thank you, Karen. It's good to know that /some/ Terry Pratchett fans can
&gt; read.)

You know, if you didn't keep coming out with things like this, it might
make people a bit more disposed to take notice of what you're saying.
CCA

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#411: Re: [I] Luxury and fine (was: Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?)

Posted on 2006-06-02 00:55:29 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 01 Jun 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: jester &lt;<a href="mailto:usenet&#64;jester.nu" target="_blank">usenet&#64;jester.nu</a>&gt;

&gt; On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 00:06:44 +0200, Torak
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;Steve Rogers wrote:
&gt; &lt;chop&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Luxury, you say luxury, why when I were a lad we used to
&gt;&gt;&gt; think luxury was living in a cold tea bag with nowt but a
&gt;&gt;&gt; tea leaf to cover us heads
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;That petty cash jar must be overflowing by now.
&gt;
&gt; Why? It's not like it's Monty Python or anything.

Aye, when I were a lad the Four Yorkshiremen sketch came from
&quot;At Last The 1948 Show&quot;. We didn't have no &quot;Monty Python Live
At The Hollywood Bowl&quot; in them days. But if you tell young
people that, they won't believe you...


--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#412: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 00:57:06 by sphira9343

Anastasia wrote:

&gt; ...if you come right down to it, I am attracted to several afpers. Even ones
&gt; I haven't seen pictures of.
&gt;
&gt; I'm sufficiently unusual that I don't find a lot of people I like who also
&gt; like me. I'm not actually trolling for dates here, but if a relationship
&gt; with an afper developed, well, nifty.

Well, why not? It's a good place to meet like-minded people. I met my
best mate through afp, and most of my other mates too :-)
CCA

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#413: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 00:59:25 by Daibhid Ceannaideach

The time: 01 Jun 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: &quot;CCA&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a>&gt;

&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; (Thank you, Karen. It's good to know that /some/ Terry
&gt;&gt; Pratchett fans can read.)
&gt;
&gt; You know, if you didn't keep coming out with things like
&gt; this, it might make people a bit more disposed to take
&gt; notice of what you're saying. CCA

Oh, hang on, I know this one. This is the bit where he says
it's entirely up to us if we want to take notice of what he's
saying or not...

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
<a href="http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc" target="_blank">http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc</a>
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06

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#414: Re: [F] Reincarnation of the afp-junior list?

Posted on 2006-06-02 01:00:15 by Karen

In article &lt;e5nncu$2pit$<a href="mailto:1&#64;mud.stack.nl" target="_blank">1&#64;mud.stack.nl</a>&gt;, esmi &lt;<a href="mailto:esmi&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">esmi&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; writes
&gt;on 01/06/2006 16:18 Karen said the following:
&gt;&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Although if I were starting from scratch now, I'd be tempted to
&gt;&gt;consider a moderated web forum format as an option simply because that
&gt;&gt;is a more familiar format to most kids now. (yes I know, burn the
&gt;&gt;heretic!)
&gt;
&gt;I'd agree with the web forum idea - although I hate them myself.
&gt;However, past experience with 2 teenage males suggests that email is
&gt;considered as some form of punishment. Show them a web forum and you
&gt;can't shut the little b^Hdarlings up.
&gt;
&gt;Son No.2 (aged 14) has to be almost forced to email anyone but has run
&gt;his own web forum for the past year or so and is an active participant
&gt;in a few others.

Yes I have the same problem to some extent. They will do mail happily
enough in response to someone but on the whole it wouldn't be their
medium of choice for group stuff.

They cheerfully run web forums and *get this* have the cheek in one case
to say &quot;they don't want silly html nonsense, keep the behaviour plain
text&quot; on them (which actual refers to behaviour and k3wl sp33k, not a
ban on the odd smiley) but oh my lord does it make me feel 99 3/4.

That would leave an architecture question though...

--
Karen/hypatia <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>
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#415: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 01:00:41 by sphira9343

Anastasia wrote:
&gt; Peter Ellis wrote:

&gt; &gt; What's the current count on afp marriages? Well into double
&gt; &gt; figures by now, surely?

&gt; And I had a year-long relationship with peachy.
&gt;
&gt; Was there anyone here who hadn't figured out that we were a couple for a
&gt; long time? We broke up last August, but we're still friends.
&gt;
&gt; We met here on afp, and it was one of the most enriching experiences I've
&gt; ever had.

I didn't know you and Peachy had been together, or even that Peachy was
bi at all!

Er...I hope I didn't cause any problems with that 'There was a lady who
swallowed a Peachy' rhyme a few weeks ago...

Nice to hear you are still friends :-)
CCA

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#416: Re: [M] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-02 01:01:16 by Karen

In article &lt;e5nlkg$2oah$<a href="mailto:1&#64;mud.stack.nl" target="_blank">1&#64;mud.stack.nl</a>&gt;, esmi &lt;<a href="mailto:esmi&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">esmi&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; writes
&gt;on 01/06/2006 01:17 Leo Breebaart said the following:
&gt;&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; (anybody remember the Testosterone Brigade?)
&gt;
&gt;Wasn't that Emmet?
&gt;

Bellman and Muse wasn't it with Roach as lieutenant? Its a long time
ago...


--
Karen/hypatia <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>
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#417: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 01:02:39 by Karen

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1149202035.523818.194440&#64;i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1149202035.523818.194440&#64;i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;, CCA
&lt;<a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; writes
&gt;Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; (Thank you, Karen. It's good to know that /some/ Terry Pratchett fans can
&gt;&gt; read.)
&gt;
&gt;You know, if you didn't keep coming out with things like this, it might
&gt;make people a bit more disposed to take notice of what you're saying.

Yesh. Sometimes 'diplomatic' comes across a lot better in text than
'casutic'.

Sometimes also I miss the multiday turnaround on fa.sf-reader and net.
groups and others (well in the UK it was multiday) which allowed blood
pressure to drop before answering.


--
Karen/hypatia <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>
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#418: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-02 01:05:12 by alec

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1149201406.965237.141820&#64;f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1149201406.965237.141820&#64;f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
<a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a> says...
&gt; Steve Rogers wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; for example I've just
&gt; &gt; finished reading them the last Harry Potter and each got out of it what
&gt; &gt; they understood, for the youngest it was the &quot;silly voices&quot; I used for
&gt; &gt; each character, for the middle one the thrill and adventure aspect and
&gt; &gt; the eldest all but the more advanced topics and concepts.
&gt;
&gt; Reading to kids is a great thing to do, and *especially* with silly
&gt; voices :-)

Helps when reading to adults, too. Especially Pratchett[R]

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#419: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 01:07:47 by Eric Jarvis

Richard Heathfield <a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a> wrote in &lt;Mo-
<a href="mailto:dnXEl0pOdweLZnZ2dnUVZ8sidnZ2d&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">dnXEl0pOdweLZnZ2dnUVZ8sidnZ2d&#64;bt.com</a>&gt;:
&gt;
&gt; And to save you further trouble, you can say what you like about my snapping
&gt; at Arthur Hagen; I am past caring.
&gt;

Then stop posting about it. Having the last word does not equate to
winning the argument. Unless the argument changes substantially there is
never any reason for two people to trade more than a couple of posts each.
After that all it proves is that neither knows when to stop.

This, incidentally, is intended as general advice to everyone.

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
&quot;live fast, die only if strictly necessary&quot;

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#420: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 01:10:47 by Steve Rogers

&quot;Richard Heathfield&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:moSdneAMCflHz-LZRVny3w&#64;bt.com..." target="_blank">moSdneAMCflHz-LZRVny3w&#64;bt.com...</a>
&gt; Karen said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Richard could you please humour me
&gt;
&gt; Sure. A horse walks into a bar, and the barman... er... oh, I see what
&gt; you
&gt; mean. Okay, shoot.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; and state for everyone your view on
&gt;&gt; the desirability or otherwise of a) censoring
&gt;
&gt; Undesirable.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; b)moderating
&gt;
&gt; Undesirable.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; c) barring certain topics.
&gt;
&gt; Undesirable.
&gt;

There you go folks an end at last to what is a monster thread over what
seems mis-reading, mis-typing, mis-understanding, mis-whatever else you
want to use. Some has been down to language usage, some has been down
to buttons being accidentally pushed and a lot is to do with human
nature when someone brings up a question of freedoms.

That's my take on all that has been written and how it's been written
including this and my other contribution.

Steve

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#421: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 01:16:33 by Karen

In article &lt;ChJfg.28420$%<a href="mailto:C6.858&#64;trnddc08" target="_blank">C6.858&#64;trnddc08</a>&gt;, peachy ashie passion
&lt;<a href="mailto:exquisitepeach&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">exquisitepeach&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; writes
&gt;Karen wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; In article &lt;azHfg.14839$<a href="mailto:U_2.11424&#64;trnddc05" target="_blank">U_2.11424&#64;trnddc05</a>&gt;, peachy ashie passion
&gt;&gt;&lt;<a href="mailto:exquisitepeach&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">exquisitepeach&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; writes
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Karen wrote:

[stuff up thread]

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I can tell you what I think the point is or how I read the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;posts and that is nothing to do with censoring topics or
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;individuals and more to do with all of us whatever we are giving a
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;bit of general thought as to what we are posting and how
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;interesting it is to the rest of the group.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Granted if that is what Richard means its a fairly cack handed way
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;of explaining it but that is how I understand his words.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I applaud your efforts to be sympathetic to Richard.
&gt;&gt; What efforts would they be then? I'm trying to understand what
&gt;&gt;exactly is being said rather than assuming I know someone's mind
&gt;&gt;better than they do. Try reading the other posts and further down
&gt;&gt;this one, I think Richard could be a lot clearer and I've said as much.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I read all of the posts before making any.
&gt;
&gt; But it seems to me that trying to understand someone's point so hard
&gt;that you ignore their actual words is an effort.
&gt;

I'm not trying any harder to understand one point of view than any other
but I do want to understand them all as far as I am able. I'm not
ignoring any words, I'm plainly reading them differently from you and
that is always an issue with a purely text medium - its not always easy
to understand what people are saying. Its also complicated when, within
a multiway discussion some posters have other forms of contact with each
other.

I can think of many occasions where I've been gobsmacked by the reaction
of poster A to poster B but the reality was I was reading poster B with
all the extra insight that comes from knowing them over 'n' years of
posting, emails or maybe even IRL.

Its easy to forget what a difference that can make to your perception
and so on the group itself I try doubly hard to be clear about what
people are actually saying. When things get heated - its hard to
separate what you feel and what you care about from that plain text.


&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I can't find one single interpretation of that which would involve
&gt;&gt;&gt;needing to use the words:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;I'm talking about culture change, so that people are free to
&gt;&gt;&gt;discuss Pratchettesque matters without being drenched by neighbours
&gt;&gt;&gt;constantly hurling themselves into the gutter. And you may be right
&gt;&gt;&gt;about afp not being the place for that; perhaps there are
&gt;&gt;&gt;insufficiently many people who are capable of holding a conversation
&gt;&gt;&gt;without having a security gutter within easy reach.&quot;
&gt;&gt; I've seen at least four or five other people including me post
&gt;&gt;today, to the effect that the balance and tone is out of kilter and
&gt;&gt;that the endless nudge nudge innuendo threads are at least as tedious
&gt;&gt;as the vampire threads on religion when they reach the levels they
&gt;&gt;have done recently. None of us have been bollocked for it in fact
&gt;&gt;there has been quite a lot of agreement that its been excessive
&gt;&gt;lately. You might not like the way Richard phrases it, it certainly
&gt;&gt;isn't going to score any points on the 'make friends and influence
&gt;&gt;people' and frankly isn't the way to go about persuading people IMHO
&gt;&gt;but it does *not* say 'I want to censor/moderate/ban topics on this
&gt;&gt;newsgroup' and to suggest otherwise is putting words into his mouth
&gt;&gt;in precisely the way people object to it the other way around.
&gt;
&gt; The man just told the bulk of us we are in the gutter and use it as a
&gt;security blanket. Incapable of holding a conversation without the
&gt;security gutter? !?
&gt;

No he didn't quite. Firstly who is 'us'? I'm 'us' if you consider 'us'
to be the posters of afp. If you don't then I'm not sure who 'us' is.
You can actually be in the majority and be drowned out at times by the
minority - cyclical threads of the vampire type whether innuendo, gonne
control or 'I can be more sarcastic than thou' can all drown out other
activity and involve relatively few people. If you want to address the
specifics of the phrasing then frankly there are times when a visitor to
the group might well draw the same conclusion. They could also come at a
different time and get a rather different view.

Would that phrasing win prizes for tact and sensitivity? Well no. Then
read it as if it came from an exasperated friend who just didn't
understand why a bunch of literate, similar interest fellows want to
watch mud wrestling. It reads differently then if you try to give the
benefit of the doubt and accept it as incomprehension rather than
anything else. I have no idea which is the reality in plain text so how
to decide? Now it may well be the mud wrestling is actually what most
people want - that is another issue entirely but on the whole, mud
wrestling palls a lot quicker than most other things in plain text.

&gt;
&gt;&gt; We all come to this group for recreation, a bit of gutter now and
&gt;&gt;again is harmless enough but we do *share* the spaces and when one
&gt;&gt;person's enjoyable gutter or another person's hot button topic takes
&gt;&gt;over the whole damned watering hole then we *all* lose out.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; And that's a fine point.
&gt;
&gt; I don't see where you can show it being the point Richard was making,
&gt;at least, not until you reframed it as the point he SHOULD be making.
&gt;

No I reframed it as my understanding of his viewpoint, I don't pretend
any telepathic insight.


&gt; IMO, it isn't at all the point he wanted to be making, and he's
&gt;backing down from the one he'd wanted to make in the beginning.
&gt;
I'm not qualified to comment on the point he wanted to be making because
I'm not him. I can only relate how it comes across to me.


--
Karen/hypatia <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>
New? Check <a href="http://www.lspace.org" target="_blank">http://www.lspace.org</a>
Confused? Mail the Clue Fairies at <a href="mailto:afp-help&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">afp-help&#64;lspace.org</a>
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#422: Re: [F] Reincarnation of the afp-junior list?

Posted on 2006-06-02 01:17:19 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:uvnu72tf3mimqamd3jrm4lebfia1si2h62&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">uvnu72tf3mimqamd3jrm4lebfia1si2h62&#64;4ax.com</a>, Lister at
<a href="mailto:fache&#64;SPAMclara.net" target="_blank">fache&#64;SPAMclara.net</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 2:46 PM:

&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 18:55:53 +0100, &quot;Steve Rogers&quot;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:steve&#64;soapietrekkers.demon.co.uk" target="_blank">steve&#64;soapietrekkers.demon.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &quot;Lister&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:fache&#64;SPAMclara.net" target="_blank">fache&#64;SPAMclara.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt;&gt; news:<a href="mailto:rr3u72djjb6qh7embj78n6kk6i0jc4emcv&#64;4ax.com..." target="_blank">rr3u72djjb6qh7embj78n6kk6i0jc4emcv&#64;4ax.com...</a>
&gt;&gt;&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 16:18:43 +0100, Karen &lt;<a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Although if I were starting from scratch now, I'd be tempted to
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; consider
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a moderated web forum format as an option simply because that is a
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; more
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; familiar format to most kids now. (yes I know, burn the heretic!)
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Can I be the first one to object? I've always hated moderation and
&gt;&gt;&gt; don't wish to subject anyone to it. Mind you, I'm happy to go along
&gt;&gt;&gt; with anything.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; For a kids only forum you need a moderator for sure though considering
&gt;&gt; how things can degenerate and to protect the kids from those that would
&gt;&gt; abuse it.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Steve
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Hmm, I'm kind of against kids being moderated.

Me too; I think that people who are mature enough to enjoy NGs, lists, fora
or whatever are also mature enough to be allowed to get on with it on their
own. Perhaps a moderator could limit themselves to making sure that only
genuine kids are involved, and leave the rest to the kids.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#423: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 01:22:24 by Brenda

CCA said:

&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; (Thank you, Karen. It's good to know that /some/ Terry Pratchett fans can
&gt;&gt; read.)
&gt;
&gt; You know, if you didn't keep coming out with things like this, it might
&gt; make people a bit more disposed to take notice of what you're saying.

But I only say things like this when it becomes clear that some people are
quite evidently /not/ disposed to take notice of what I'm saying. So your
argument reduces to &quot;if you take away the effect, perhaps the cause won't
happen after all!&quot;, which isn't the way the universe works.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#424: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 01:23:36 by Brenda

Daibhid Ceanaideach said:

&gt; The time: 01 Jun 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
&gt; speaker: &quot;CCA&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a>&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; (Thank you, Karen. It's good to know that /some/ Terry
&gt;&gt;&gt; Pratchett fans can read.)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; You know, if you didn't keep coming out with things like
&gt;&gt; this, it might make people a bit more disposed to take
&gt;&gt; notice of what you're saying. CCA
&gt;
&gt; Oh, hang on, I know this one. This is the bit where he says
&gt; it's entirely up to us if we want to take notice of what he's
&gt; saying or not...

Nice try, but no cylindrical smokey thing.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#425: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 01:23:42 by Kar98

On 2006-06-01 18:22:24 -0500, Richard Heathfield
&lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; said:

&gt; some people are quite evidently /not/ disposed to take notice of what
&gt; I'm saying.

Count me in from here on out
*pulls lever*

--
Do you know what the chain of command is here? It's the chain I go get
and beat you with to show you who's in ruttin' command here.

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#426: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 01:26:35 by Steve Rogers

&quot;Peter Ellis&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:pjie2&#64;cam.ac.uk" target="_blank">pjie2&#64;cam.ac.uk</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:4e960uF1dn5e5U1&#64;individual.net..." target="_blank">4e960uF1dn5e5U1&#64;individual.net...</a>
&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; And I had a year-long relationship with peachy.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Was there anyone here who hadn't figured out that we were a couple
&gt;&gt; for a long time?
&gt;
&gt; Er, me. Do I get a prize? Or an anti-prize? Then again, I wasn't
&gt; trying to figure it out. Your business is your business. Glad you
&gt; are/were/will be happy about it, I guess.
&gt;

Me too, but then I believe what people get up to in their private lives
is up to them and it matters nought to me who is with whom or not as
long as they're happy and they don't frighten the kids (but that's
another story).

Steve

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#427: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-02 01:38:15 by Lesley Weston

in article yrsfg.7563$<a href="mailto:921.6249&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">921.6249&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>, Anastasia
at <a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a> wrote on 31/05/2006 7:39 PM:

&gt; Karen wrote:
&gt;&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1149108586.253282.256650&#64;u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1149108586.253282.256650&#64;u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
&gt;&gt; CCA &lt;<a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; writes
&gt;&gt;&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [2] but in a certain light Stacie seems to have become the sex
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; dream of choice hereabouts
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Honestly, I am *not* sure how that happened.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Well engaging in banter about belly buttons with photographs, sexual
&gt;&gt; preferences, clothing preferences etc is all it takes sometimes
&gt;
&gt; Well, people seemed to be having fun. I was having fun.

Explicitly sexual flirting on line is not my bag [1], though I did like the
belly-button thread, but I don't see why people who do enjoy it shouldn't go
ahead. Some of your posts (not just in the threads we're talking about here)
are obviously deliberately provocative - and why not? I really can't see how
it's harming anyone; people who don't like it don't have to read it, while
people who do like it can respond in kind or just quietly enjoy it.

If, however, it's got beyond your comfort level (as it did with CCA a
while ago), or if you feel that others in the group are getting upset about
it, then your very reasonable and pleasant post to that effect should be
noted and acted upon by everyone concerned.
&gt;
&gt; That I'm not the only one taking part isn't a defense, but but it is a fact.
&gt; Those are subjects about which I enjoy discussion, for which I don't think
&gt; an apology is completely appropriate.

Exactly.

[1] Do people still say that?

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#428: Re: [I] Luxury and fine

Posted on 2006-06-02 01:48:10 by Torak

Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:
&gt; The time: 01 Jun 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
&gt; speaker: jester &lt;<a href="mailto:usenet&#64;jester.nu" target="_blank">usenet&#64;jester.nu</a>&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 00:06:44 +0200, Torak
&gt;&gt;&lt;<a href="mailto:perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Steve Rogers wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&lt;chop&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Luxury, you say luxury, why when I were a lad we used to
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;think luxury was living in a cold tea bag with nowt but a
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;tea leaf to cover us heads
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;That petty cash jar must be overflowing by now.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Why? It's not like it's Monty Python or anything.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Aye, when I were a lad the Four Yorkshiremen sketch came from
&gt; &quot;At Last The 1948 Show&quot;. We didn't have no &quot;Monty Python Live
&gt; At The Hollywood Bowl&quot; in them days. But if you tell young
&gt; people that, they won't believe you...

Well, it's still the Pythons in it, though. And Atkinson, but that's
beside the point. At least in the version I've heard.

Report this message

#429: Re: Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-02 01:48:47 by Anastasia

Lesley Weston wrote:
&gt;
&gt; Some of your posts (not just in the threads we're talking about here)
&gt; are obviously deliberately provocative - and why not? I really can't see how
&gt; it's harming anyone; people who don't like it don't have to read it, while
&gt; people who do like it can respond in kind or just quietly enjoy it.

Heaven forfend I should deny that. Whoa. The credibility loss would
tear a hole in the fabric of space-time.


&gt; If, however, it's got beyond your comfort level (as it did with CCA a
&gt; while ago), or if you feel that others in the group are getting upset about
&gt; it, then your very reasonable and pleasant post to that effect should be
&gt; noted and acted upon by everyone concerned.

A smidge. And I'm more concerned with the comfort level of other afpers
than mine. Yes, it has gotten to the &quot;eek&quot; stage for me a couple of
times, but mainly I knew that it was reaching a level that certain of
my friends and acquaintances wouldn't be interested in or comfy with.

&gt; [1] Do people still say that?

Yeah, sometimes. :-)

I have worked out Google Groups to get me through the evening, but it's
too much a pian in the rear to post much.

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#430: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case akid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-02 01:49:09 by Torak

CCA wrote:
&gt; Steve Rogers wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;for example I've just
&gt;&gt;finished reading them the last Harry Potter and each got out of it what
&gt;&gt;they understood, for the youngest it was the &quot;silly voices&quot; I used for
&gt;&gt;each character, for the middle one the thrill and adventure aspect and
&gt;&gt;the eldest all but the more advanced topics and concepts.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Reading to kids is a great thing to do, and *especially* with silly
&gt; voices :-)

I listened to the Potter audio books, thought I'd enjoy them, what with
Stephen Fry being good and all, but I couldn't stand the voices he
inflicted on the characters. Three chapters, then back went the tapes.

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#431: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 01:51:27 by Eric Jarvis

Anastasia <a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a> wrote in
&lt;6lIfg.7785$<a href="mailto:921.5637&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">921.5637&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;:
&gt; Peter Ellis wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; third is a request for the group to get out of the gutter - but
&gt; &gt; with a refusal to define the gutter, how to get into or out of the
&gt; &gt; gutter
&gt;
&gt; EXACTLY. Where's the gutter. I want latitude, longitude, depth, and a water
&gt; sample.
&gt;

It's different for everyone. That's precisely why it's OK to go there (or
lower) now and again but not OK to lie there and wallow in it. Unless it's
funny.

As far as I'm concerned there is no topic that shouldn't be discussed on
afp. However all posts should be created to be appropriate to the medium.
If it becomes one to one banter of any kind it should be email. If the
primary attention is to shout &quot;look at me I'm doing something naughty&quot;
then it shouldn't be posted at all. If it's funny then it's always OK.

Funny in these cases means likely to be funny to people other than the
poster.

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
&quot;live fast, die only if strictly necessary&quot;

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#432: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-02 01:53:54 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:4e83rdF1d37pgU1&#64;individual.net" target="_blank">4e83rdF1d37pgU1&#64;individual.net</a>, Orjan Westin at
<a href="mailto:nospam&#64;cunobaros.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;cunobaros.com</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 5:11 AM:

&gt; CCA wrote:
&gt;&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; That I'm not the only one taking part isn't a defense, but but it is
&gt;&gt;&gt; a fact. Those are subjects about which I enjoy discussion, for which
&gt;&gt;&gt; I don't think an apology is completely appropriate.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I agree with you, and I certainly don't think you need to apologise
&gt;&gt; for anything. And no, you're certainly not the only one taking part,
&gt;&gt; far from it.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; [To everyone else]
&gt;&gt; I have noticed, in this thread, one or two people hinting along the
&gt;&gt; lines of &quot;This recent rise in flirting-style posts is all to do with
&gt;&gt; Stacie/Anastasia&quot;, and I really don't think it's helping anyone when
&gt;&gt; we point fingers and say &quot;It's all her fault.&quot;
&gt;
&gt; Smacks slightly of &quot;But she asked for it, wearing a miniskirt&quot; to me,
&gt; yes.

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; I, too, have a share in the collective guilt. That does not, I hope,
&gt; invalidate my words in this post.

*What* guilt? Nobody's done anything wrong - Anastasia, you or anybody else.
A little mild flirting brightens up the day for both participants and
audience so long as it's witty, and much of this has displayed plenty of
wit.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#433: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 01:56:38 by Eric Jarvis

Karen <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a> wrote in &lt;<a href="mailto:ir5IsWHUz0fEFw1V&#64;cableinet.co.uk" target="_blank">ir5IsWHUz0fEFw1V&#64;cableinet.co.uk</a>&gt;:
&gt;
&gt; Could anyone else say if they disagree with the notion that we have had
&gt; an excess of innuendo in jokes lately and a break from them to get back
&gt; to regular channels would be rather nice?
&gt;

I disagree. It isn't an excess of innuendo. It's a spate of poor quality
innuendo that isn't funny.

Andrew, fetch the dead horse and the whip.

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
&quot;live fast, die only if strictly necessary&quot;

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#434: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 01:59:19 by Eric Jarvis

Richard Heathfield <a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a> wrote in
&lt;<a href="mailto:moSdnecMCfk40uLZRVny3w&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">moSdnecMCfk40uLZRVny3w&#64;bt.com</a>&gt;:
&gt; peachy ashie passion said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Richard, a thought.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; If you reach the point where NOBODY seems able to grasp your points,
&gt; &gt; it's time to consider whether the fault might be with the transmission,
&gt; &gt; rather than every single one of the receivers.
&gt;
&gt; I'll bear that in mind. For now, though, it seems that, at the very least,
&gt; Karen, Eric Jarvis, Torak, and Orjan Westin can understand what I'm saying,
&gt; so I don't see why anyone else shouldn't be able to, if they want to.
&gt;

I'm not entirely sure that I do. On the other hand I'm not sure I
understand what I'm saying either.

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
&quot;live fast, die only if strictly necessary&quot;

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#435: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-02 02:00:06 by Orjan Westin

Graycat wrote:
&gt;
&gt; I can't,
&gt; offhand, think of anything sex-related I've read on afp I
&gt; would be ashamed to let someone in my family see. Some I
&gt; find embarassing/cringeworthy [1], but that's because of the
&gt; quality of the jokes rather than the sexual content.

&lt;snip stuff I agree with&gt;

&gt; [1] the covered in seamen pun in the tale springs to mind...

What? That was my finest piece of work in the whole book! I spent
words and words and words setting it up, making great efforts to
establish the scenes with a fetish theme, then gently and slowly
introducing a Japanese fetish theme and preparing for a reason for it,
suggesting it might come but lulling people in a false sense of security
that it wouldn't, then delivering it with as much flair as I was capable
of!

All right, so maybe I didn't put a lot of effort into it, but I still
think the &quot;shi barely/shibari&quot; pun was more cringeworthy, as puns go.

&gt; though, probably wouldn't to a child.

Not my #1 at least. She never noticed she missed something, and that's
all I aimed for.

Orjan
--
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
Fiction, Thoughts and Software
<a href="http://www.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://www.cunobaros.com/</a>

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#436: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-02 02:02:26 by Kar98

On 2006-06-01 18:53:54 -0500, Lesley Weston
&lt;<a href="mailto:brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt; said:

&gt; A little mild flirting brightens up the day for both participants and
&gt; audience so long as it's witty, and much of this has displayed plenty of
&gt; wit.


And that's pretty much the point of flirting, at least for me. Not just
online but irl, too. Doesn't cost me a thing and it's fun without
consequences.


--
You who are wicked, evil and mean
I'm the nastiest creep you've ever seen!
Come one, come all, put up a fight
I'll pound your butts with Green Lantern's light!

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#437: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-02 02:02:41 by Eric Jarvis

CCA <a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a> wrote in
&lt;<a href="mailto:1149192527.865796.57200&#64;i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1149192527.865796.57200&#64;i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;:
&gt; Eric Jarvis wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Why on earth would I be embarrassed to invite my mother to afp? Apart from
&gt; &gt; the small details that she hasn't read any of the books yet and doesn't
&gt; &gt; own a computer.
&gt;
&gt; I often tell my Mum things from afp. In fact, she often asks how
&gt; everyone is when I switch it off :-)
&gt;

Mine too. On the other hand both my brother and sister have met afpers
even though neither has read afp.

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
&quot;live fast, die only if strictly necessary&quot;

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#438: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-02 02:03:07 by Steve Rogers

&quot;CCA&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1149201406.965237.141820&#64;f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1149201406.965237.141820&#64;f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; Steve Rogers wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; for example I've just
&gt;&gt; finished reading them the last Harry Potter and each got out of it
&gt;&gt; what
&gt;&gt; they understood, for the youngest it was the &quot;silly voices&quot; I used
&gt;&gt; for
&gt;&gt; each character, for the middle one the thrill and adventure aspect
&gt;&gt; and
&gt;&gt; the eldest all but the more advanced topics and concepts.
&gt;
&gt; Reading to kids is a great thing to do, and *especially* with silly
&gt; voices :-)

Fer sure and no-one can fault my 'Agrid being as I come from the West
Country. Tickled the hell out of my wife when she first heard me
reading to them (she does a mean Barbie and Blue of all things).

Steve

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#439: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-02 02:05:44 by Kar98

On 2006-06-01 18:49:09 -0500, Torak &lt;<a href="mailto:perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; said:

&gt; I listened to the Potter audio books, thought I'd enjoy them, what with
&gt; Stephen Fry being good and all, but I couldn't stand the voices he
&gt; inflicted on the characters. Three chapters, then back went the tapes.

I've only listened to one audio book so far, the current one by
Preston/Child, whatever the title was. René Auberjoinaise (or however
his name is spelled) did a great job of doing the voice, even though he
over-did the Italian cop a bit. Incidentally, he also played the
changeling in one of the Star Trek series.


--
You who are wicked, evil and mean
I'm the nastiest creep you've ever seen!
Come one, come all, put up a fight
I'll pound your butts with Green Lantern's light!

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#440: Re: [F] Reincarnation of the afp-junior list?

Posted on 2006-06-02 02:05:52 by Eric Jarvis

Lister <a href="mailto:fache&#64;SPAMclara.net" target="_blank">fache&#64;SPAMclara.net</a> wrote in
&lt;<a href="mailto:uvnu72tf3mimqamd3jrm4lebfia1si2h62&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">uvnu72tf3mimqamd3jrm4lebfia1si2h62&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;:
&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 18:55:53 +0100, &quot;Steve Rogers&quot;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:steve&#64;soapietrekkers.demon.co.uk" target="_blank">steve&#64;soapietrekkers.demon.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&quot;Lister&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:fache&#64;SPAMclara.net" target="_blank">fache&#64;SPAMclara.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; &gt;news:<a href="mailto:rr3u72djjb6qh7embj78n6kk6i0jc4emcv&#64;4ax.com..." target="_blank">rr3u72djjb6qh7embj78n6kk6i0jc4emcv&#64;4ax.com...</a>
&gt; &gt;&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 16:18:43 +0100, Karen &lt;<a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;Although if I were starting from scratch now, I'd be tempted to
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;consider
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;a moderated web forum format as an option simply because that is a
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;more
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;familiar format to most kids now. (yes I know, burn the heretic!)
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Can I be the first one to object? I've always hated moderation and
&gt; &gt;&gt; don't wish to subject anyone to it. Mind you, I'm happy to go along
&gt; &gt;&gt; with anything.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;For a kids only forum you need a moderator for sure though considering
&gt; &gt;how things can degenerate and to protect the kids from those that would
&gt; &gt;abuse it.
&gt;
&gt; Hmm, I'm kind of against kids being moderated.
&gt;

Wheras I have no objection to birth control.

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
&quot;live fast, die only if strictly necessary&quot;

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#441: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 02:13:32 by Anastasia

Eric Jarvis wrote:
&gt; Karen <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a> wrote in &lt;<a href="mailto:ir5IsWHUz0fEFw1V&#64;cableinet.co.uk" target="_blank">ir5IsWHUz0fEFw1V&#64;cableinet.co.uk</a>&gt;:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Could anyone else say if they disagree with the notion that we have had
&gt; &gt; an excess of innuendo in jokes lately and a break from them to get back
&gt; &gt; to regular channels would be rather nice?
&gt; &gt;
&gt;
&gt; I disagree. It isn't an excess of innuendo. It's a spate of poor quality
&gt; innuendo that isn't funny.

&lt;bristle&gt;

You'll get only the finest quality innuendo from me!

First-rate double entendres, too. Triple and quadruple entendres on a
bespoke basis.

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#442: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-02 02:22:36 by Steve Rogers

&quot;Torak&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:W1Lfg.1277$<a href="mailto:YI3.512&#64;amstwist00..." target="_blank">YI3.512&#64;amstwist00...</a>
&gt; CCA wrote:
&gt;&gt; Steve Rogers wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;for example I've just
&gt;&gt;&gt;finished reading them the last Harry Potter and each got out of it
&gt;&gt;&gt;what
&gt;&gt;&gt;they understood, for the youngest it was the &quot;silly voices&quot; I used
&gt;&gt;&gt;for
&gt;&gt;&gt;each character, for the middle one the thrill and adventure aspect
&gt;&gt;&gt;and
&gt;&gt;&gt;the eldest all but the more advanced topics and concepts.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Reading to kids is a great thing to do, and *especially* with silly
&gt;&gt; voices :-)
&gt;
&gt; I listened to the Potter audio books, thought I'd enjoy them, what
&gt; with Stephen Fry being good and all, but I couldn't stand the voices
&gt; he inflicted on the characters. Three chapters, then back went the
&gt; tapes.

I know that feeling well, my ex-step-son was given the audio books
through pure laziness, as he couldn't be bothered to read the books he
was bought, by his grandparents - I listened to one of them and that was
enough for me. But there is something satisfying about reading to your
own kids and playing each character vocally I find (a bit of a bugger
mind when you forget how you did the particular voices between readings)
maybe it's because I like the absurdity of it and the way I can pull
their attention better to the story. Now reading Wee Free Men to them
was a challenge - lots of voices but one main accent.

Steve

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#443: Re: [I] Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 02:25:25 by naomi

Karen wrote:
&gt; In article &lt;447ee84a$<a href="mailto:1&#64;news.comindico.com.au" target="_blank">1&#64;news.comindico.com.au</a>&gt;, naomi
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:kittenkat&#64;dodo.com.au" target="_blank">kittenkat&#64;dodo.com.au</a>&gt; writes
&gt;&gt; Alec Cawley wrote:
&gt;&gt; al.
&gt;&gt;&gt; Disney used to have a portal aimed at younger users called
&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;goto.com&quot;, though I think they closed it some time ago (it now
&gt;&gt;&gt; reroutes to go2.com, a yellow-pages lookalike). But if you typoed
&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;gpto.com&quot; - adjacent character on the weak little finger, you ended
&gt;&gt;&gt; up somewhere very distincly X-rated with the goods on offer highly
&gt;&gt;&gt; visible on the front page.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Yes. I once got a very interesting phone call from my school principal
&gt;&gt; about my daughter accessing that site from school. She was only 8 and
&gt;&gt; didn't understand why everyone was mad. My husband had a very
&gt;&gt; instructive time showing the school IT person the right way to set up
&gt;&gt; some filters. He got mad at the principal for being mad at our daughter.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Even if she had been deliberately accessing the site I'd say his issue
&gt; would be with you first and foremost. I recall one of my kids at this
&gt; age saying one of her classmates was showing them 'horrible' sites (and
&gt; they were - designed with front pages of children's tv characters but
&gt; one click away from some fairly revolting port).
&gt;
&gt; The school rapidly tweaked its filters to stop the access when the
&gt; teacher spotted what was happening in the class but the real issue to me
&gt; was that her eight year old classmate was spending several hours a day
&gt; unsupervised and online at home.
&gt;
&gt;

That's the thing. Our kids both have their own (old) pc's but they don't
have Internet or email on them. We don't let them online (on a parent's
computer) unless a parent is with them the whole time. We had accessed
the Disney site at home to play their games, but when she tried to get
it at school she ended up with a site selling porn and adult toys. I
don't even now if it is the site Alec mentioned above, but it was
definitely Disney she was trying to assess. I think these people do this
to kid's sites on purpose.

naomi

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#444: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 02:27:53 by Karen

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:MPG.1ee98f1142a48e7a989c60&#64;cenote.gkhs.net" target="_blank">MPG.1ee98f1142a48e7a989c60&#64;cenote.gkhs.net</a>&gt;, Eric Jarvis
&lt;<a href="mailto:usenet&#64;ericjarvis.co.uk" target="_blank">usenet&#64;ericjarvis.co.uk</a>&gt; writes
&gt;Karen <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a> wrote in &lt;<a href="mailto:ir5IsWHUz0fEFw1V&#64;cableinet.co.uk" target="_blank">ir5IsWHUz0fEFw1V&#64;cableinet.co.uk</a>&gt;:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Could anyone else say if they disagree with the notion that we have had
&gt;&gt; an excess of innuendo in jokes lately and a break from them to get back
&gt;&gt; to regular channels would be rather nice?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;I disagree. It isn't an excess of innuendo. It's a spate of poor quality
&gt;innuendo that isn't funny.

yeah probably, its been hard to tell the difference lately.

&gt;
&gt;Andrew, fetch the dead horse and the whip.
&gt;
and the coach going off shore for a few days.
..

--
Karen/hypatia <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>
New? Check <a href="http://www.lspace.org" target="_blank">http://www.lspace.org</a>
Confused? Mail the Clue Fairies at <a href="mailto:afp-help&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">afp-help&#64;lspace.org</a>
Discworld Convention 2006, August 18-21, <a href="http://www.dwcon.org" target="_blank">http://www.dwcon.org</a>

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#445: Re: [I] Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 02:42:22 by Karen

In article &lt;447f8574$<a href="mailto:1&#64;news.comindico.com.au" target="_blank">1&#64;news.comindico.com.au</a>&gt;, naomi
&lt;<a href="mailto:kittenkat&#64;dodo.com.au" target="_blank">kittenkat&#64;dodo.com.au</a>&gt; writes
&gt;Karen wrote:
&gt;&gt; In article &lt;447ee84a$<a href="mailto:1&#64;news.comindico.com.au" target="_blank">1&#64;news.comindico.com.au</a>&gt;, naomi
&gt;&gt;&lt;<a href="mailto:kittenkat&#64;dodo.com.au" target="_blank">kittenkat&#64;dodo.com.au</a>&gt; writes

&gt;&gt;&gt; Yes. I once got a very interesting phone call from my school
&gt;&gt;&gt;principal about my daughter accessing that site from school. She was
&gt;&gt;&gt;only 8 and didn't understand why everyone was mad. My husband had a
&gt;&gt;&gt;very instructive time showing the school IT person the right way to
&gt;&gt;&gt;set up some filters. He got mad at the principal for being mad at our daughter.
&gt;&gt; Even if she had been deliberately accessing the site I'd say his
&gt;&gt;issue would be with you first and foremost. I recall one of my kids at
&gt;&gt;this age saying one of her classmates was showing them 'horrible'
&gt;&gt;sites (and they were - designed with front pages of children's tv
&gt;&gt;characters but one click away from some fairly revolting port).
&gt;&gt; The school rapidly tweaked its filters to stop the access when the
&gt;&gt;teacher spotted what was happening in the class but the real issue to
&gt;&gt;was that her eight year old classmate was spending several hours a day
&gt;&gt;unsupervised and online at home.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;That's the thing. Our kids both have their own (old) pc's but they
&gt;don't have Internet or email on them. We don't let them online (on a
&gt;parent's computer) unless a parent is with them the whole time. We had
&gt;accessed the Disney site at home to play their games, but when she
&gt;tried to get it at school she ended up with a site selling porn and
&gt;adult toys. I don't even now if it is the site Alec mentioned above,
&gt;but it was definitely Disney she was trying to assess.

Oh I've no doubt about she was.


&gt; I think these people do this to kid's sites on purpose.

Yes so do I from the number of 'mistyped monstrosities' I've found.

My kids had independent access relatively early but I was lucky inasmuch
as I managed it tightly through a proxy with 'opt in' rules and I'm
aware that most parents don't have the wherewithall or knowledge to do
this easily. Anything that wasn't explicitly set to 'ok' at page level
meant they had to come and sit with one of us. It gets a bit fudgy as
they get older because they are able/wanting more independence and you
still want to protect them from goatz and its ilk (or in my case it awas
always violence that bothered me more than sex) without blocking too
heavy handedly. Its really not so different from the process of letting
them walk to school alone, the shops alone and further afield hoping
that you have given them the skills to deal with situations as they
arise. You just have to judge it case by case.

What really bothered me about the situation I describe above was that
the child's parents had no idea what was happening. They were not stupid
or uncaring but they were not net experienced and had absolutely no
frame of reference. They understood that there were lots of useful
things there adn less pleasant things, they set up AOL net nanny or
whatever its called and thought that meant he could only access
'educational' of 'child fun' sites. They were probably the most
horrified when they realised what he had been reading and seeing, they
thought that an hour online in the 'protected' environment was better
than an hour watching a video.


--
Karen/hypatia <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>
New? Check <a href="http://www.lspace.org" target="_blank">http://www.lspace.org</a>
Confused? Mail the Clue Fairies at <a href="mailto:afp-help&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">afp-help&#64;lspace.org</a>
Discworld Convention 2006, August 18-21, <a href="http://www.dwcon.org" target="_blank">http://www.dwcon.org</a>

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#446: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 02:44:41 by naomi

Torak wrote:
&gt; Lesley Weston wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I believe you've said that your oldest is fifteen, and your others not
&gt;&gt; too
&gt;&gt; far behind? Some afpers are not much older than that. Do you also
&gt;&gt; choose the
&gt;&gt; books that your children are allowed to read? An ex-colleague of mine
&gt;&gt; told
&gt;&gt; me once, very distressed, that he had been going through his teenage
&gt;&gt; son's
&gt;&gt; things &quot;as one does&quot;, and to his horror had found amongst the young man's
&gt;&gt; shirts some letters from a girl; on reading them, he was further
&gt;&gt; horrified
&gt;&gt; by their content. He had, of course, Spoken Harshly to his son and the
&gt;&gt; boy
&gt;&gt; was now suitably penitent, but he couldn't get over the way that his
&gt;&gt; son had
&gt;&gt; betrayed him, and was also worried about the depraved path his son had
&gt;&gt; chosen to follow, however briefly.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I like the guy (there's more to someone's personality than their
&gt;&gt; ideas
&gt;&gt; on child-rearing) and I knew I was going to have to continue working with
&gt;&gt; him for years to come, so I did manage to stay civil - but it was
&gt;&gt; difficult.
&gt;&gt; It seems to me that it was the son's fundamental rights as a human
&gt;&gt; that had
&gt;&gt; been betrayed in several important ways, not the father's trust in his
&gt;&gt; son.
&gt;&gt; One part of those rights is his right to choose his own reading material,
&gt;&gt; friends, lifestyle and pastimes.
&gt;
&gt; This is why I like my parents. All right, so Dad gets a bit panicky, but
&gt; only really pokes his nose into my finances (and only because I asked
&gt; him to take care of them while I'm abroad), and Mamma stays well away
&gt; from anything that's not in plain sight. Even when tidying, she'll ask
&gt; me if there's anything I don't want her looking at - and if there was I
&gt; reckon it'd be pretty safe from both of them.
&gt;
&gt; Which is nice.


I have not yet forgiven my mother for opening and reading private mail
addressed to me. She said she did it to see if the young man who lived
150 km away who was writing me letters each week was more than my
friend. I'm still hurt because she could have *asked me*. My parents
where very strict and I feel I was an honest and obedient teenager. MY
falling in love with the young man ( whom I married 4 years later) was
the only thing I ever did which could remotely be considered rebellious.

I felt betrayed and my trust in her was violated because if asked I
would have told the truth. I was in love although at that stage all that
was happening was letter writing.

I still don't trust my mother with anything secret. My kids are still
only young but I try to talk with them about a lot of things, and I
always act in a trustworthy manner when they choose to tell me a secret.
My 8 year old son even asks me for advice on his problems. I am not so
naive as to believe it will always be this way but I'm trying to lay the
foundations now.

I think parent's have to set an example if they want their kids to be
open and trustworthy with them.

My final thought is this. You can't control when or if you meet your
soul mate. Some people do meet the when they are young. How often I have
read of people who find their first love again after many decades and it
turns out that was the one they should have been with all along. I don't
necessarily want my kids doing this as teenagers but you can't brush off
all young love. The person you are rude to or the one you ban them from
seeing may be a part of your family in later years.

n

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#447: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 03:01:04 by raymond larsson

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:R-SdnWztZIev1eLZnZ2dnUVZ8qadnZ2d&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">R-SdnWztZIev1eLZnZ2dnUVZ8qadnZ2d&#64;bt.com</a>&gt;, Richard Heathfield
says...

&gt; (Thank you, Karen. It's good to know that /some/ Terry Pratchett fans can
&gt; read.)

Well obviously I am not one of them.

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#448: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-02 03:01:06 by raymond larsson

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1149194048.639242.82590&#64;y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1149194048.639242.82590&#64;y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;, CCA
says...

&gt; Orjan Westin wrote:

&gt; &gt; Some of us do. Come to think of it, I posted something just yesterday,
&gt; &gt; in which I tried to discuss the issue. It got one reply, which focussed
&gt; &gt; on one aspect, so I guess nobody was very interested in the other
&gt; &gt; aspects I raised.
&gt;
&gt; Or maybe we agreed with you, and had nothing more to add. After all,
&gt; long strings of &quot;Yes, I agree with you&quot; posts are another thing that is
&gt; usually discouraged here.
&gt; I often read posts thoroughly, think &quot;Yes, he/she's right&quot; and then
&gt; just move on, as i've got nothing new to add.

Aol to the AOLer and distinguished Authoress. Lately for me it has
happened even more for Orjan's posts than Gideon's.

--
rgl might have something to do with OW posting more frequently,
but certainty would require more research than ... .

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#449: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case akid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-02 03:03:52 by naomi

Steve Rogers wrote:
&gt; &quot;CCA&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:<a href="mailto:1149201406.965237.141820&#64;f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1149201406.965237.141820&#64;f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;&gt; Steve Rogers wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; for example I've just
&gt;&gt;&gt; finished reading them the last Harry Potter and each got out of it
&gt;&gt;&gt; what
&gt;&gt;&gt; they understood, for the youngest it was the &quot;silly voices&quot; I used
&gt;&gt;&gt; for
&gt;&gt;&gt; each character, for the middle one the thrill and adventure aspect
&gt;&gt;&gt; and
&gt;&gt;&gt; the eldest all but the more advanced topics and concepts.
&gt;&gt; Reading to kids is a great thing to do, and *especially* with silly
&gt;&gt; voices :-)
&gt;
&gt; Fer sure and no-one can fault my 'Agrid being as I come from the West
&gt; Country. Tickled the hell out of my wife when she first heard me
&gt; reading to them (she does a mean Barbie and Blue of all things).
&gt;
&gt; Steve
&gt;
&gt;

I used to love my dad reading picture books. I even used to sneak into
the 'little ones' room to listen when I was a teenager. He used to make
up different silly stories for the pictures. It was always so funny
especially because even though the kids couldn't read they knew it was
the wrong story and they would pretend to get mad 'Read it properly
Daddy!' all the time screaming with laughter.

I miss my Dad a lot. My parents got divorced a couple of years ago and
he lives on the other side of the country. Au is a big place so I
haven't seen him for a long time. Even though I'm an adult and have my
own family it has been hard for me seeing this happen with my parents.

n

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#450: Re: [I] Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 03:08:58 by Steve Rogers

&quot;Karen&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:ZOHWFhhul4fEFwxf&#64;cableinet.co.uk..." target="_blank">ZOHWFhhul4fEFwxf&#64;cableinet.co.uk...</a>
&gt; In article &lt;447f8574$<a href="mailto:1&#64;news.comindico.com.au" target="_blank">1&#64;news.comindico.com.au</a>&gt;, naomi
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:kittenkat&#64;dodo.com.au" target="_blank">kittenkat&#64;dodo.com.au</a>&gt; writes
&gt;&gt;Karen wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; In article &lt;447ee84a$<a href="mailto:1&#64;news.comindico.com.au" target="_blank">1&#64;news.comindico.com.au</a>&gt;, naomi
&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:kittenkat&#64;dodo.com.au" target="_blank">kittenkat&#64;dodo.com.au</a>&gt; writes
&gt;

&lt;snip bits about misspelling kiddie urls &gt;

&gt; My kids had independent access relatively early but I was lucky
&gt; inasmuch as I managed it tightly through a proxy with 'opt in' rules
&gt; and I'm aware that most parents don't have the wherewithall or
&gt; knowledge to do this easily. Anything that wasn't explicitly set to
&gt; 'ok' at page level meant they had to come and sit with one of us. It
&gt; gets a bit fudgy as they get older because they are able/wanting more
&gt; independence and you still want to protect them from goatz and its ilk
&gt; (or in my case it awas always violence that bothered me more than sex)
&gt; without blocking too heavy handedly. Its really not so different from
&gt; the process of letting them walk to school alone, the shops alone and
&gt; further afield hoping that you have given them the skills to deal with
&gt; situations as they arise. You just have to judge it case by case.
&gt;

Similar here, my kids (and when I set it back up again in the US) have
access to the internet with their own old PC via my setup so that
content is screened by me and I can control it depending on the age of
the child, took a bit of setting up but so far it's worked.

&gt; What really bothered me about the situation I describe above was that
&gt; the child's parents had no idea what was happening. They were not
&gt; stupid or uncaring but they were not net experienced and had
&gt; absolutely no frame of reference. They understood that there were lots
&gt; of useful things there adn less pleasant things, they set up AOL net
&gt; nanny or whatever its called and thought that meant he could only
&gt; access 'educational' of 'child fun' sites. They were probably the most
&gt; horrified when they realised what he had been reading and seeing, they
&gt; thought that an hour online in the 'protected' environment was better
&gt; than an hour watching a video.
&gt;

That unfortunately is all to often the case where non-IT aware parents
rely on a product to do as it says on the packet not realising that it
can only do so much. My mother-in-law has a similar problem with my
brother-in-law and his accessing of the internet made doubly worse as
whilst he's 18 his mental age is more in the 10-12 range, she's always
hit by the quandary of, he's old enough to view things legally but not
equipped to fully deal with it, a headache which I've tried to help with
by giving her a bit more control over the worse of what is out there
that he can access.

Steve

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#451: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 03:21:04 by exquisite witch peachy

CCA wrote:

&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Peter Ellis wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;What's the current count on afp marriages? Well into double
&gt;&gt;&gt;figures by now, surely?
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;And I had a year-long relationship with peachy.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Was there anyone here who hadn't figured out that we were a couple for a
&gt;&gt;long time? We broke up last August, but we're still friends.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;We met here on afp, and it was one of the most enriching experiences I've
&gt;&gt;ever had.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I didn't know you and Peachy had been together, or even that Peachy was
&gt; bi at all!
&gt;
&gt; Er...I hope I didn't cause any problems with that 'There was a lady who
&gt; swallowed a Peachy' rhyme a few weeks ago...
&gt;
&gt; Nice to hear you are still friends :-)
&gt; CCA
&gt;


gosh, and since we got together because I hit on her so blatantly
here... :)

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#452: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 03:27:08 by Arthur Hagen

Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; And I had a year-long relationship with peachy.
&gt;
&gt; Was there anyone here who hadn't figured out that we were a couple
&gt; for a long time?

No, but you openly stated you were of such a persuasion, while she hadn't
(or at least I hadn't read it), so at least I thought it best to not say
anything, on account of that not being my right to disclose.

Regrds,
--
*Art

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#453: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-02 03:28:22 by Steve Rogers

&quot;naomi&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:kittenkat&#64;dodo.com.au" target="_blank">kittenkat&#64;dodo.com.au</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:447f8e77$<a href="mailto:1&#64;news.comindico.com.au..." target="_blank">1&#64;news.comindico.com.au...</a>
&gt; Steve Rogers wrote:
&gt;&gt; &quot;CCA&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt;&gt; news:<a href="mailto:1149201406.965237.141820&#64;f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1149201406.965237.141820&#64;f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Steve Rogers wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; for example I've just
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; finished reading them the last Harry Potter and each got out of it
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; what
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; they understood, for the youngest it was the &quot;silly voices&quot; I used
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; for
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; each character, for the middle one the thrill and adventure aspect
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the eldest all but the more advanced topics and concepts.
&gt;&gt;&gt; Reading to kids is a great thing to do, and *especially* with silly
&gt;&gt;&gt; voices :-)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Fer sure and no-one can fault my 'Agrid being as I come from the West
&gt;&gt; Country. Tickled the hell out of my wife when she first heard me
&gt;&gt; reading to them (she does a mean Barbie and Blue of all things).
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Steve
&gt;
&gt; I used to love my dad reading picture books. I even used to sneak into
&gt; the 'little ones' room to listen when I was a teenager. He used to
&gt; make up different silly stories for the pictures. It was always so
&gt; funny especially because even though the kids couldn't read they knew
&gt; it was the wrong story and they would pretend to get mad 'Read it
&gt; properly Daddy!' all the time screaming with laughter.
&gt;

Yup, I know that well lol :-)

&gt; I miss my Dad a lot. My parents got divorced a couple of years ago and
&gt; he lives on the other side of the country. Au is a big place so I
&gt; haven't seen him for a long time. Even though I'm an adult and have my
&gt; own family it has been hard for me seeing this happen with my parents.
&gt;

It's hard when your the father too - I'm currently in the position where
my wife and baby daughter are 4500 or so miles away (a temporary
situation remedied once my visa is granted) and my other 3 daughters are
unfortunately (hopefully a situation soon to be remedied) with their
mother who tries to stop them from having contact with me.

Break ups in a relationship with children are always bad for all
concerned and sometimes it is forgotten that even though they may be
adults the kids still want both parents in their lives especially when
there are grandchildren for them to spoil (a sweeping generalisation I
know and one that doesn't hold true for all just most).

Steve

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#454: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-02 03:45:30 by exquisite witch peachy

CCA wrote:

&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;CCA wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;but people flirt with Peachy too,
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Who has at least temporarily unsubscribed, in case no one noticed.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; That's a shame. I hope she comes back soon.
&gt; CCA
&gt;

Thank you for the kind thoughts.

I think AFP isn't a hospitable place of late, and I am high on the
behaviors that irritate.

I COME here for the random chatter and innuendo. It loses its fun
when there's always someone griping about the play, and I'm best off
being places where that doesn't happen.

Stacie insisted I come read today, but I think I'll be gone again soon.

One of the real points of this thread has been, AFP has to decide
again what sort of group it wants to be. Whatever the answer is,
someone won't be happy and someone will. But that's the nature of life,
I think.

peach

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#455: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 03:49:28 by exquisite witch peachy

Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; peachy ashie passion said:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; But it seems to me that trying to understand someone's point so hard
&gt;&gt; that you ignore their actual words is an effort.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; No, she's reading the actual words. That's kind of the point.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; The man just told the bulk of us we are in the gutter
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; No, I didn't say any such thing. Please read what I wrote, not what you
&gt; think I wrote.
&gt;

&quot;perhaps there are insufficiently many people who are capable of
holding a conversation without having a security gutter within easy reach.&quot;

Which of those words are not what you wrote?

Report this message

#456: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-02 03:50:58 by Shmoe

&quot;CCA&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1149180212.981796.176860&#64;j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1149180212.981796.176860&#64;j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt; &gt; CCA wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; but people flirt with Peachy too,
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Who has at least temporarily unsubscribed, in case no one noticed.
&gt;
&gt; That's a shame. I hope she comes back soon.
&gt; CCA

That makes at least two of us. Please pass on our good thoughts for her, if
you talk to her.

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#457: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 03:51:45 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:DrGdnaDBNvN6b-PZRVny2w&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">DrGdnaDBNvN6b-PZRVny2w&#64;bt.com</a>, Richard Heathfield at
<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 7:00 AM:

&gt; Arthur Hagen said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; 1: If you disagree that children are at a different level, fine. You'll
&gt;&gt; hear no argument from me against that, as I think that children shouldn't
&gt;&gt; be sheltered.
&gt;&gt; But why then don't you want childrens subjected to what's here?
&gt;
&gt; I wouldn't want a dog subjected to some of the stuff that's posted here.

So why do you read it? And anyway, how do you know it's not dogs posting
whatever it is you're objecting to? &quot;On the net no-one knows you're a
dog...&quot;

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#458: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-02 03:58:37 by Stacie Hanes

Torak wrote:
&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt; Arthur Hagen wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Anastasia &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Well, in point of fact, Peachy is the only person here who has
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; met me in person..
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; How do you know?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Well, damn. You have a point.
&gt;
&gt; Well, you'd recognise Rocky.

If he's wearing my trousers, sure.
--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

Report this message

#459: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 04:04:14 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:5dmdncKCkqmduOLZRVnyuQ&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">5dmdncKCkqmduOLZRVnyuQ&#64;bt.com</a>, Richard Heathfield at
<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 10:34 AM:

&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Arthur Hagen said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1: If you disagree that children are at a different level, fine.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; You'll hear no argument from me against that, as I think that
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; children shouldn't be sheltered.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; But why then don't you want childrens subjected to what's here?
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I wouldn't want a dog subjected to some of the stuff that's posted
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; here.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I'm asking you directly: are you talking about me?
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; How can I be? You've never been posted here. Therefore, the answer
&gt;&gt;&gt; is self-evidently &quot;no&quot;. There is an important distinction between
&gt;&gt;&gt; subscribers and articles. I think it was Torak who made that
&gt;&gt;&gt; distinction very clear earlier today. Or possibly Orjan.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I believe that to be an evasion.
&gt;
&gt; It wasn't.

Sure looked like it.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I also believe you know what I meant.
&gt;
&gt; I believe you probably were trying to find out whether I wanted you to stop
&gt; posting to the group (but it isn't what you actually asked).
&gt;
&gt; And I don't want to stop /anyone/ posting to the group. In fact, I would go
&gt; further - I don't want to stop anyone from /reading/ the group either.

Yes you do. You started this whole bit by saying that you prevent your
children reading afp, even though (you say) you know they would enjoy it. Or
does the &quot;children are not a separate species&quot; bit not apply to your own
offspring?

&gt; But
&gt; some of the stuff being posted here does precisely that. The way the group
&gt; is now, it is hardly surprising that it's being blocked by parental control
&gt; software, as reported recently by someone else on another thread.

It's extremely surprising. There is nothing here that could possibly harm a
child if the child is old enough to get the references at all. And it wasn't
software making the decision to block afp, it was the people running the
software.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Were you, are you, speaking of the subjects and manner of the words I have
&gt;&gt; posted and the like manner in which others have replied.
&gt;
&gt; I am speaking of the kind of stuff that means the group is being blocked by
&gt; parental control software, as reported recently by someone else on another
&gt; thread.

The report was offered in a &quot;Nowt so queer as folk&quot; spirit, as an
illustration of how abysmally stupid the people blocking the group are. Most
afpers who replied seemed to agree with the poster.

&gt;We have the opportunity to treat this as a heads-up warning, and to
&gt; take time to reflect on whether that is the way we want the group to go.

The group is not going any way in particular. The term &quot;drunkard's walk&quot;
comes to mind.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#460: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 04:04:17 by Anastasia

peachy ashie passion wrote:
&gt; CCA wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Anastasia wrote:

&gt; &gt;&gt;We met here on afp, and it was one of the most enriching experiences I've
&gt; &gt;&gt;ever had.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; I didn't know you and Peachy had been together, or even that Peachy was
&gt; &gt; bi at all!
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Er...I hope I didn't cause any problems with that 'There was a lady who
&gt; &gt; swallowed a Peachy' rhyme a few weeks ago...
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Nice to hear you are still friends :-)
&gt; &gt; CCA
&gt; &gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; gosh, and since we got together because I hit on her so blatantly
&gt; here... :)

Yeah, she chased me until I caught her. :-D

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#461: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-02 04:05:16 by Stacie Hanes

Eric Jarvis wrote:
&gt; CCA <a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a> wrote in
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:1149180343.328661.232100&#64;g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1149180343.328661.232100&#64;g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;:
&gt;&gt; René wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; [Stacie/Anastasia]
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Nah, it's more like &quot;but she's the only one easily IDable as
&gt;&gt;&gt; actual female, and kinda cute&quot;. Not that there is anything wrong
&gt;&gt;&gt; with that :D
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Plenty of cute females around here, and on #afp too.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I think that very much depends on how one defines &quot;cute&quot;. If you
&gt; include the range from oddly attractive to stunningly beautiful,
&gt; then yes. If you define it as pretty in a non threatening way then
&gt; no.

Without naming names, could you define &quot;oddly attractive&quot;? I really want to
know what that means.

I'm totally serious!

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

Report this message

#462: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 04:08:17 by Lesley Weston

in article BEFfg.763$<a href="mailto:jB5.72&#64;newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">jB5.72&#64;newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>, Anastasia at
<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 10:40 AM:

&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt;&gt; I believe you probably were trying to find out whether I wanted you
&gt;&gt; to stop posting to the group (but it isn't what you actually asked).
&gt;
&gt; No, that is not what I asked, nor is it what I want to know. I may quit the
&gt; group,

Please don't. We only just got through persuading Rocky to stay with us, it
would be just as sad to lose you.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#463: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 04:10:48 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:tMudnRjIL5DQtuLZRVnyjA&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">tMudnRjIL5DQtuLZRVnyjA&#64;bt.com</a>, Richard Heathfield at
<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 11:01 AM:

&gt; Anastasia said:

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt;&gt; I and others discuss gender, BDSM, sexuality, sex, and other matters. Do
&gt;&gt; you object to this?
&gt;
&gt; Mu.

Chicken.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#464: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-02 04:11:53 by Stacie Hanes

peachy ashie passion wrote:
&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; perhaps there are insufficiently many people who
&gt;&gt; are capable of holding a conversation without having a security
&gt;&gt; gutter within easy reach. I hope and believe that's false, but I
&gt;&gt; could be wrong.
&gt;
&gt; I am struggling not to feel insulted here, and mostly losing.
&gt;
&gt; The clear implication is that some here reside in the gutter, and
&gt; are not exerting themselves to lift themselves out of the muck.

I admit that's how I feel.

&gt; I mostly conduct myself in the world where swearing and innuendo
&gt; are inappropriate. I am a parent and a student. I have two very
&gt; naive children, who I work overtime to shield. I am a student, and
&gt; academic papers in my field, or the classroom, are not the avenue
&gt; for those sorts of conversation.

I'm an academic, with one 8-year-old son who is not only online, but has his
own blog.

&gt; Usenet is my avenue for behaving in a way that I don't behave in
&gt; front of the children.

My immediate reaction is &quot;well, gods know I'm not getting any anywhere
else.&quot;

&gt; I am not incapable of conducting myself responsibly and with
&gt; dignity.
&gt; The &quot;gutter&quot; is not a security blanket, it is my chosen
&gt; recreation, thank you.

And that, folks, is why I was and still am crazy about this woman.

(no worries, peach)

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

Report this message

#465: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-02 04:18:58 by Stacie Hanes

Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; Diane L said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; CCA said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (Thanks for responding intelligently, Philippa. It makes a
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; pleasant change. And anyone who is offended by that, deserves to
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; be.)
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; You know, Richard, for an otherwise likeable guy, you certainly
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; come across as a headmaster talking to naughty children
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sometimes.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; What's up? You don't like headmasters?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Most people who are no longer children dislike being treated or
&gt;&gt; adressed as children.
&gt;
&gt; I have an excellent comeback to that reply, but I am not fool
&gt; enough to post it.

So do I, but we've done with talking about what I like in bed.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

Report this message

#466: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 04:18:58 by Anastasia

Lesley Weston wrote:
&gt; in article BEFfg.763$<a href="mailto:jB5.72&#64;newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">jB5.72&#64;newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>, Anastasia at
&gt; <a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 10:40 AM:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; I believe you probably were trying to find out whether I wanted you
&gt; &gt;&gt; to stop posting to the group (but it isn't what you actually asked).
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; No, that is not what I asked, nor is it what I want to know. I may quit the
&gt; &gt; group,
&gt;
&gt; Please don't. We only just got through persuading Rocky to stay with us, it
&gt; would be just as sad to lose you.
&gt;


Oh, I swear I wasn't threatening to. &lt;blush&gt;

Really, I didn't mean it like that. Being incognito is starting to have
some appeal, though.

It might be fun to see if people still like me shorn of the accumulated
.. . . accumulations.

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#467: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 04:19:49 by Stacie Hanes

Matthew Seaman wrote:

&gt; [1] Notice that Kali has -- count them -- eight limbs, and is
&gt; therefore intrinsically evil. And probably hiding in your shower.

As long as she doesn't poke any of 'em outta the plughole, I won't dump
Drano on her ass.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

Report this message

#468: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 04:21:31 by Kar98

On 2006-06-01 21:19:49 -0500, &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; said:

&gt; Matthew Seaman wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; [1] Notice that Kali has -- count them -- eight limbs, and is
&gt;&gt; therefore intrinsically evil. And probably hiding in your shower.
&gt;
&gt; As long as she doesn't poke any of 'em outta the plughole, I won't dump
&gt; Drano on her ass.

Drano don't work, gotta use Shiva.



--
You who are wicked, evil and mean
I'm the nastiest creep you've ever seen!
Come one, come all, put up a fight
I'll pound your butts with Green Lantern's light!

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#469: Re: [F] Reincarnation of the afp-junior list?

Posted on 2006-06-02 04:23:06 by Stacie Hanes

Matthew Seaman wrote:

&gt;&gt; Hmm, I'm kind of against kids being moderated.
&gt;
&gt; No, no. It's like nuclear power stations, innit. You've got to
&gt; stick graphite rods through them, or they get over-heated and catch
&gt; fire.

Okay, I literally snorted Powerade (fruit punch flavor) through my nose.

I hate you. Not only do I now have fruit punch stains on a beige carpet, I
have fruit punch in my sinuses, which isn't NEARLY so nice as it sounds.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#470: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 04:23:21 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:Pine.WNT.4.61.0606011910230.1072&#64;SLINKY" target="_blank">Pine.WNT.4.61.0606011910230.1072&#64;SLINKY</a>, Philippa Cowderoy at
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 11:15 AM:

&lt;Censorship of afp&gt;

&gt; Then could we kindly skip to the meat of the argument, namely which
&gt; content you feel is or should be being discussed? Because otherwise all
&gt; you're doing is making people who're further from social norms feel
&gt; exceedingly uncomfortable.

And others too. I'm about as conventional as it gets in my own life -
happily married to the same man for 38 years - but I find seriously
distressing any suggestion that people shouldn't be allowed to talk about
the things that interest them, even though such things are not to my
personal taste. I'm from the &quot;Who Are the Thought Police?&quot; era, and that
sort of thing sticks with one, quite apart from it going against everything
I was taught while growing up and all the ideas that modern society is based
on.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#471: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 04:23:22 by Stacie Hanes

CCA wrote:
&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt; Peter Ellis wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; What's the current count on afp marriages? Well into double
&gt;&gt;&gt; figures by now, surely?
&gt;
&gt;&gt; And I had a year-long relationship with peachy.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Was there anyone here who hadn't figured out that we were a couple
&gt;&gt; for a long time? We broke up last August, but we're still friends.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; We met here on afp, and it was one of the most enriching
&gt;&gt; experiences I've ever had.
&gt;
&gt; I didn't know you and Peachy had been together, or even that Peachy
&gt; was bi at all!

Now go back and read my report on the DC Minimeet and try to figure out what
I left out.

&gt; Er...I hope I didn't cause any problems with that 'There was a lady
&gt; who swallowed a Peachy' rhyme a few weeks ago...

We both giggled ourselves silly.

&gt; Nice to hear you are still friends :-)

Yes, it really is.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#472: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 04:24:25 by Brenda

peachy ashie passion said:

&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; peachy ashie passion said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; The man just told the bulk of us we are in the gutter
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; No, I didn't say any such thing. Please read what I wrote, not what you
&gt;&gt; think I wrote.
&gt;
&gt; &quot;perhaps there are insufficiently many people who are capable of
&gt; holding a conversation without having a security gutter within easy
&gt; reach.&quot;

Ah, good old selective quotation again, I see. Well done. That's always a
good trick. Unless, of course, it's pointed out, and the context restored.
Then it kind of falls flat, doesn't it?

&gt; Which of those words are not what you wrote?

Firstly, I invite you to notice that the words I wrote and which you have
just quoted do not mean the same thing that you claimed I had said. I
invite you to read the actual words there, especially the word &quot;perhaps&quot;,
and the phrase &quot;insufficiently many&quot;. The one makes it clear that I am not
making a definitive statement, and the other is utterly misconstrued if
interpreted as being complementary to &quot;the bulk of us&quot;.

And now let's look at the context. The very next sentence, the one that
follows the text you quote, and which is contained within the very same
paragraph, and which it would have been easier to include in your quote
than to exclude from it, is this: &quot;I hope and believe that's false, but I
could be wrong.&quot;

So I've made a statement that is significantly qualified by the word
&quot;perhaps&quot;, which makes a very vague reference to quantity - &quot;insufficiently
many&quot; - and then I qualified it further by saying I myself believe the
hypothesis I've just raised to be a false one. To turn this into &quot;told the
bulk of us we are in the gutter&quot; is not merely disingenuous - it is a
staggering misrepresentation of what I actually said and meant.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#473: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 04:26:14 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:K9WdnZg1OfsIr-LZRVnysg&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">K9WdnZg1OfsIr-LZRVnysg&#64;bt.com</a>, Richard Heathfield at
<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 11:32 AM:

&gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt;&gt; Then could we kindly skip to the meat of the argument, namely which
&gt;&gt; content you feel is or should be being discussed? Because otherwise all
&gt;&gt; you're doing is making people who're further from social norms feel
&gt;&gt; exceedingly uncomfortable.
&gt;
&gt; Up to now, it's been those who are less far from what you call &quot;social
&gt; norms&quot; who have been feeling uncomfortable.

Just you, apparently. Unless the lurkers are supporting you by e-mail, of
course.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#474: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 04:39:03 by Brenda

Lesley Weston said:

&gt; in article <a href="mailto:DrGdnaDBNvN6b-PZRVny2w&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">DrGdnaDBNvN6b-PZRVny2w&#64;bt.com</a>, Richard Heathfield at
&gt; <a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 7:00 AM:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Arthur Hagen said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; 1: If you disagree that children are at a different level, fine.
&gt;&gt;&gt; You'll hear no argument from me against that, as I think that children
&gt;&gt;&gt; shouldn't be sheltered.
&gt;&gt;&gt; But why then don't you want childrens subjected to what's here?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I wouldn't want a dog subjected to some of the stuff that's posted here.
&gt;
&gt; So why do you read it?

Well, until I've read an article containing such stuff, I don't know that it
does so. By the time I've discovered that the article contains material
that I wouldn't want to see a dog subjected to, it's a bit late not to read
that article, isn't it?

&gt; And anyway, how do you know it's not dogs posting

Last I heard, not many dogs have yet learned to type, let alone post to
Usenet. Even Snoopy uses a secretary-bird.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#475: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 04:43:14 by Lesley Weston

in article jymYad$<a href="mailto:pwzfEFwkk&#64;cableinet.co.uk" target="_blank">pwzfEFwkk&#64;cableinet.co.uk</a>, Karen at <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a> wrote
on 01/06/2006 12:12 PM:

&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:Pine.LNX.4.64.0606011940260.15778&#64;hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk" target="_blank">Pine.LNX.4.64.0606011940260.15778&#64;hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk</a>&gt;,
&gt; Peter Ellis &lt;<a href="mailto:pjie2&#64;cam.ac.uk" target="_blank">pjie2&#64;cam.ac.uk</a>&gt; writes
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Peter Ellis said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; He's telling the naughty kids not to talk about [...]
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; No, I'm not *telling* anyone to do *anything*. Sheesh, can't you READ?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; OK, you're *asking* the naughty kids not to talk about naughty things,
&gt;&gt; because grown-ups never flirt, or talk about sex.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Where?
&gt;
&gt; I've just read this thread from the top again and it is entirely
&gt; possible I'm missing posts but I can't see anywhere that Richard has
&gt; actually proposed censoring or moderating the newsgroup or asking people
&gt; not to post on sexual topics. I've seen lots of people assume that this
&gt; is what he means but I can't find him actually saying it anywhere.

I'm not going to search for it, but this started with a post from Richard in
which he said, in effect, that he wishes afp would change its tone and
content, because he doesn't allow his children to read the group the way it
is now. He seemed to mean self-censoring rather than a moderator, but that's
just as offensive.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#476: Re: [M] was: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 04:43:31 by April Goodwin-Smith

&quot;Richard Heathfield&quot; wrote ...
&gt; April Goodwin-Smith said:
&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt; If this newsgroup offends you, then read one that does not.
&gt; Ah, so if I'm reading the subtext properly here, this newsgroup
&gt; is /really/ for &quot;people who want to post here, provided they do
&gt; not disagree with April Goodwin-Smith&quot;, right?
&gt;

Nope, can't be true; you're still posting here.

Okay, I confess, you have pushed my &quot;in a pig's ear&quot;
button.

When you first started on the origional contentious thread,
I was at first interested, and then exasperated, and then
frankly bored rigid, if for no other reason than that whenever
someone tried to engage you on a point of the topic, you
would gently deflect them away by responding on a tangent.

Even though you had constipated afp on the biggest piece
of indigestible cheese it has woolfed down in a long time,
I didn't express my opinion because it was quite evident
that people needed to discuss this, at length, with hammer
and tongs and a few doses of epsom salts. I also happen
to find the incessant my-browsers-better-than-your-browser
and real-programmers-use-the-one-true-and-holy-language
threads also tedious in the extreme - but they seem to make
some people really happy, so okey-dokey. Same goes for
the my leather trousers are cuter and tighter and shinier and
more trancendental that your leather trousers - they seem
to make people happy. It takes all sorts to make a small
world.

Then.

On 30 May 2006 you posted a whimsical little ditty that we
were all just talking too much, and you couldn't find the time
to read our sad little utterances, and so you had marked us
read.

Fine. Your privelege.

And during the following twenty-four hours there was a new
half dozen posts from you on assorted contentious topics
where people are again trying to engage you, and again you
are slithering away on extraneous tangents.

So, you haven't the decency to read other posters' posts, but
you feel entitled to bog this joint down with more of your endless
waffling, and you have the nerve to start a crusade to &quot;improve&quot;
the tone of afp? Get stuffed.

April.

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#477: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 04:47:57 by Brenda

Lesley Weston said:

&gt; in article <a href="mailto:5dmdncKCkqmduOLZRVnyuQ&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">5dmdncKCkqmduOLZRVnyuQ&#64;bt.com</a>, Richard Heathfield at
&gt; <a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 10:34 AM:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I believe that to be an evasion.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; It wasn't.
&gt;
&gt; Sure looked like it.

Not to me, it didn't. It was a literal and truthful answer to the question
that was asked.

&gt;&gt;&gt; I also believe you know what I meant.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I believe you probably were trying to find out whether I wanted you to
&gt;&gt; stop posting to the group (but it isn't what you actually asked).
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; And I don't want to stop /anyone/ posting to the group. In fact, I would
&gt;&gt; go further - I don't want to stop anyone from /reading/ the group either.
&gt;
&gt; Yes you do.

No, I don't.

&gt; You started this whole bit by saying that you prevent your
&gt; children reading afp,

Yes, I do. But I don't /want/ to. That is, in fact, the whole point of this
discussion as far as I am concerned.

&gt;&gt; But
&gt;&gt; some of the stuff being posted here does precisely that. The way the
&gt;&gt; group is now, it is hardly surprising that it's being blocked by parental
&gt;&gt; control software, as reported recently by someone else on another thread.
&gt;
&gt; It's extremely surprising.

Not to me.

&gt; There is nothing here that could possibly harm
&gt; a child if the child is old enough to get the references at all.

That is a matter of opinion, and my opinion differs significantly from
yours.

&gt; And it
&gt; wasn't software making the decision to block afp, it was the people
&gt; running the software.

Then the decision cannot be laid at the door of immature software. If what
you say is true, then *people* are deciding that afp breaches whatever
guidelines they have for protecting young people from unsuitable content.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#478: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 04:50:23 by Brenda

Lesley Weston said:

&gt; in article <a href="mailto:tMudnRjIL5DQtuLZRVnyjA&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">tMudnRjIL5DQtuLZRVnyjA&#64;bt.com</a>, Richard Heathfield at
&gt; <a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 11:01 AM:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I and others discuss gender, BDSM, sexuality, sex, and other matters. Do
&gt;&gt;&gt; you object to this?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Mu.
&gt;
&gt; Chicken.

The question is constructed in much the same way as &quot;Have you stopped
cheating on your partner?&quot; It is not 'chicken' to refuse to answer such a
question. It is merely good sense.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#479: Re: [M] was: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 04:55:04 by Stacie Hanes

April Goodwin-Smith wrote:

&gt; the my leather trousers are cuter and tighter and shinier and
&gt; more trancendental that your leather trousers

See, I *like* how YOU say that.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

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#480: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 05:05:58 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:bLkG0dFio0fEFwQG&#64;cableinet.co.uk" target="_blank">bLkG0dFio0fEFwQG&#64;cableinet.co.uk</a>, Karen at <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a> wrote
on 01/06/2006 1:12 PM:


&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; We all come to this group for recreation, a bit of gutter now and again
&gt; is harmless enough but we do *share* the spaces and when one person's
&gt; enjoyable gutter or another person's hot button topic takes over the
&gt; whole damned watering hole then we *all* lose out.

This is perhaps more relevant than you realise - you've been away from the
group for a while, so you might not have seen all the monster threads that
have been spawned lately by Richard's hot-button topic of fundamentalist
Christianity. Yes, I am naming the person whose posts I find offensive. It's
only those posts of his on that and related subjects, such as the present
discussion, that annoy me, but they seem to outweigh his (always witty and
literate) posts on other subjects by quite a bit in number and length.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#481: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 05:06:32 by Brenda

Lesley Weston said:

&gt; in article <a href="mailto:K9WdnZg1OfsIr-LZRVnysg&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">K9WdnZg1OfsIr-LZRVnysg&#64;bt.com</a>, Richard Heathfield at
&gt; <a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 11:32 AM:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt;
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Then could we kindly skip to the meat of the argument, namely which
&gt;&gt;&gt; content you feel is or should be being discussed? Because otherwise all
&gt;&gt;&gt; you're doing is making people who're further from social norms feel
&gt;&gt;&gt; exceedingly uncomfortable.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Up to now, it's been those who are less far from what you call &quot;social
&gt;&gt; norms&quot; who have been feeling uncomfortable.
&gt;
&gt; Just you, apparently.

No, several other people have made their own discomfort clear. And that's
just the ones that stuck around.

&gt; Unless the lurkers are supporting you by e-mail, of course.

Not so far. I've only had one email about this thread so far, and that was
simply an acknowledgement-with-thanks in reply to one I'd sent myself. No
lurkers, as yet, have been flooding into my inbox with fulsome praise for
my brave stand, or any such nonsense as that.

But that's partly the point, isn't it? How many Pratchett fans have
subscribed to this group, read a few dozen articles, drawn the inevitable
conclusion, and quietly unsubscribed, never to be heard of again?
Obviously, we have no way of knowing. But this group, to a large extent,
self-selects for being in favour of posting the kind of material under
discussion, since those who object to it (according to someone else in this
thread) are not likely to stay around for very long, as their pleas fall on
deaf ears.

Do you remember that guy a few weeks ago who thought it was real big to
insult just about anyone and everyone? Do you remember how a lot of people
felt about it? They had no qualms about making their feelings known, and
nobody attacked them for it. So this group does acknowledge that there are
limits, and it is prepared to act to ensure that they are not exceeded. All
I'm doing is suggesting that we give due weight to the possibility that the
limit is in the wrong place at present, and needs shifting.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#482: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 05:23:34 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Fri, 2 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; Lesley Weston said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; in article <a href="mailto:tMudnRjIL5DQtuLZRVnyjA&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">tMudnRjIL5DQtuLZRVnyjA&#64;bt.com</a>, Richard Heathfield at
&gt; &gt; <a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 11:01 AM:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; I and others discuss gender, BDSM, sexuality, sex, and other matters. Do
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; you object to this?
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Mu.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Chicken.
&gt;
&gt; The question is constructed in much the same way as &quot;Have you stopped
&gt; cheating on your partner?&quot;

No, it's not. The question doesn't presuppose anything, whereas &quot;Have you
stopped...&quot; presupposes that you're doing the thing in question. You're
free to give a more involved answer than &quot;yes&quot; or &quot;no&quot;, and I imagine that
was fully intended when the question was asked.

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

'In Ankh-Morpork even the shit have a street to itself...
Truly this is a land of opportunity.' - Detritus, Men at Arms

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#483: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 05:23:55 by Arthur Hagen

Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; But that's partly the point, isn't it? How many Pratchett fans have
&gt; subscribed to this group, read a few dozen articles, drawn the
&gt; inevitable conclusion, and quietly unsubscribed, never to be heard of
&gt; again?

Before you ask that question to everyone else, perhaps you should ask
yourself how many of those might have left because they have no desire to
read your diatribes or overt religious admonitions?

&gt; Do you remember that guy a few weeks ago who thought it was real big
&gt; to insult just about anyone and everyone? Do you remember how a lot
&gt; of people felt about it? They had no qualms about making their
&gt; feelings known, and nobody attacked them for it. So this group does
&gt; acknowledge that there are limits, and it is prepared to act to
&gt; ensure that they are not exceeded. All I'm doing is suggesting that
&gt; we give due weight to the possibility that the limit is in the wrong
&gt; place at present, and needs shifting.

So you're suggesting that we all do to you like we did to Puumba?

--
*Art

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#484: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case akid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-02 05:30:16 by naomi

Steve Rogers wrote
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; It's hard when your the father too - I'm currently in the position where
&gt; my wife and baby daughter are 4500 or so miles away (a temporary
&gt; situation remedied once my visa is granted) and my other 3 daughters are
&gt; unfortunately (hopefully a situation soon to be remedied) with their
&gt; mother who tries to stop them from having contact with me.
&gt;
&gt; Break ups in a relationship with children are always bad for all
&gt; concerned and sometimes it is forgotten that even though they may be
&gt; adults the kids still want both parents in their lives especially when
&gt; there are grandchildren for them to spoil (a sweeping generalisation I
&gt; know and one that doesn't hold true for all just most).
&gt;
&gt; Steve
&gt;
&gt;

I know he misses us a lot. I really wish he could spend time with our
kids because he is great with little ones. They talk on the phone but it
isn't the same. They've seen him once for a couple of days about 4 years
ago and hardly remember that.

I'm hoping that when he is more settled in his work/home situation I'll
be able to afford to fly them down to Melbourne every now and again. I
think my Mum won't like that because she doesn't want anyone to
acknowledge his new wife ( who he met after the break up). I've spoken
to her a couple of times and she seems nice and she makes Dad happy and
that is what is important to me.

Mum in the meantime refuses to even think about the possibility of being
with anyone else. She says she still loves Dad, as much as I love him I
wouldn't want them back together. Mum has blossomed into a self
sufficient and capable woman. She has flourished in her new career and
is doing wonderfully in every other aspect of her life. I wish she would
meet someone nice, then she might be able to let go of some bitterness
about relationships.

I found that the breakup affected my sense of self in some strange ways
and also made me question the long term viability of my own marriage.
Because I lived a long way from them at the time I didn't see the signs
of it coming so the whole thing was a shock.

I really hope your ex and yourself can come to an agreement because if
you are lucky to have a good dad you really need him in your life even
as an adult and especially as a kid. I hope that if anything ever
happened between us my husband and I could at least agree about the kids.

n

Report this message

#485: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-02 05:34:19 by Stacie Hanes

naomi wrote:

&gt; I really hope your ex and yourself can come to an agreement because
&gt; if you are lucky to have a good dad you really need him in your
&gt; life even as an adult and especially as a kid. I hope that if
&gt; anything ever happened between us my husband and I could at least
&gt; agree about the kids.

I can attest that it's possible to end a marriage gently, even though it
hurts abominably. Just never speaking in anger gets you most of the way
there, and remembering the love for your spouse, if you can, does most of
the rest.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

Report this message

#486: Re: [M] was: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 05:36:37 by Brenda

April Goodwin-Smith said:

&gt; &quot;Richard Heathfield&quot; wrote ...
&gt;&gt; April Goodwin-Smith said:
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; If this newsgroup offends you, then read one that does not.
&gt;&gt; Ah, so if I'm reading the subtext properly here, this newsgroup
&gt;&gt; is /really/ for &quot;people who want to post here, provided they do
&gt;&gt; not disagree with April Goodwin-Smith&quot;, right?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Nope, can't be true; you're still posting here.

Right. So perhaps it's for Terry Pratchett fans after all.

&gt; Okay, I confess, you have pushed my &quot;in a pig's ear&quot;
&gt; button.

It wasn't me. I'm all the way over here.

&gt; When you first started on the origional contentious thread,
&gt; I was at first interested, and then exasperated, and then
&gt; frankly bored rigid, if for no other reason than that whenever
&gt; someone tried to engage you on a point of the topic, you
&gt; would gently deflect them away by responding on a tangent.

I disagree. What some people here appear to be trying to do is nail down a
specific article that I object to, so that they can then say &quot;that's not so
bad, you're making a fuss about nothing&quot; - and of course they'd be right,
for any one article is not going to be such a big deal - but the real issue
is a general &quot;feel&quot; in the group, that we all know exists, and which some
of us appear to like a lot and others (including but not limited to myself)
appear to like not at all. Eric Jarvis summarised my feelings very well
upthread, and I commend his article to you.

&gt; Even though you had constipated afp on the biggest piece
&gt; of indigestible cheese it has woolfed down in a long time,

I'll accept part of the responsibility for that, but not all by any means. I
am not the only person posting in this thread!

&gt; I also happen
&gt; to find the incessant my-browsers-better-than-your-browser
&gt; and real-programmers-use-the-one-true-and-holy-language
&gt; threads also tedious in the extreme

Sure. But I think you'll agree they tend to be relatively short, reasonably
infrequent, and remarkably good-humoured (compared to other such
discussions elsenet).

&gt; On 30 May 2006 you posted a whimsical little ditty that we
&gt; were all just talking too much, and you couldn't find the time
&gt; to read our sad little utterances, and so you had marked us
&gt; read.

Well, yes, if you tried really REALLY hard you could take my little
apologetic explanation of why I might have missed replying to one or two
people, and turn it into an insult - but you'd have to try really REALLY
hard, and you probably still wouldn't convince anyone with a brain. Still,
don't let it stop you from trying.

&gt; And during the following twenty-four hours there was a new
&gt; half dozen posts from you on assorted contentious topics
&gt; where people are again trying to engage you, and again you
&gt; are slithering away on extraneous tangents.

No, I'm trying to keep to the point instead of being distracted by arbitrary
and inconsequential distractions. I don't claim that I have always
succeeded, but at least I've tried.

&gt; So, you haven't the decency to read other posters' posts,

An occasional &quot;catch-up&quot; does not mean I do not read other posters' posts.
It is, I think, self-evident that I /do/ read other posters' posts. I just
don't have enough time to read every single one, that's all. I wish I did,
but I don't.

&gt; but
&gt; you feel entitled to bog this joint down with more of your endless
&gt; waffling,

Would I be right in deducing that you think I should be more careful about
what I post, so that what /you/ consider to be &quot;endless waffling&quot; is less
common, less intrusive, and less provocative?

If so, then you are actually agreeing with the main thrust of my argument,
differing only in a trifling detail. And if not, then you don't really have
a point at all, so it is /you/, not me, who is engaging in endless
waffling.

&gt; and you have the nerve to start a crusade to &quot;improve&quot; the tone of afp?

It's not a crusade. It was merely an observation, which has been blown up
out of all proportion by our resident population of friendly neighbourhood
blowing-things-up-out-of-all-proportion people.


&gt; Get stuffed.

Yes, it's far easier to say such things than to think in a rational way
about the issues raised in the thread. And it's certainly easier to attack
what you think I wrote, rather than what I actually wrote. You are not the
first to do that, and I doubt very much whether you will be the last.

Sometimes I think I should stick to words of one syllable.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#487: Re: [M] was: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 05:42:16 by Stacie Hanes

Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; April Goodwin-Smith said:

&gt;&gt; someone tried to engage you on a point of the topic, you
&gt;&gt; would gently deflect them away by responding on a tangent.
&gt;
&gt; I disagree. What some people here appear to be trying to do is nail
&gt; down a specific article that I object to,

Yes, I have asked for specific example.

&gt; so that they can then say
&gt; &quot;that's not so bad, you're making a fuss about nothing&quot; - and of
&gt; course they'd be right, for any one article is not going to be ...

Well, that wasn't why I was asking, as far as I know. I was more wanting to
analyze what exact parts of the tone you object to.

It's possible I'm misunderstanding you, but maybe not as much as you think.
I started a thread called &quot;The tenor of afp&quot; not so long ago.

I get it, I do.

But honestly, I really would have liked to see some quote. I realize it's a
lot of work for you, and I'm content enough to let it drop at this point,
but really, that's not why I asked.

I was trying to take the measure of your personal parameters, plain and
simple.

Well, it's neither plain nor simple, but YKWIM.

--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &amp;
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED &quot;If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning.&quot; C. Aird, _His Burial Too_

Report this message

#488: Re: [M] was: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 05:42:39 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Fri, 2 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; I disagree. What some people here appear to be trying to do is nail down a
&gt; specific article that I object to, so that they can then say &quot;that's not so
&gt; bad, you're making a fuss about nothing&quot;

I for one have not been trying to do this, and if anything am immensely
aggravated that you persisted for as long as you did in refusing to
address my worries so that you could avoid it happening without giving
any apparent thought to the possibility that I wasn't trying to do this
and wasn't in fact worried about the flirts.

&gt; Well, yes, if you tried really REALLY hard you could take my little
&gt; apologetic explanation of why I might have missed replying to one or two
&gt; people, and turn it into an insult - but you'd have to try really REALLY
&gt; hard, and you probably still wouldn't convince anyone with a brain. Still,
&gt; don't let it stop you from trying.
&gt;

I'm not sure you'd succeed in convincing anyone with a brain that you're
in a position to judge what would or wouldn't fly with them. I'm seeing a
lot of evidence to the contrary.

&gt; &gt; and you have the nerve to start a crusade to &quot;improve&quot; the tone of afp?
&gt;
&gt; It's not a crusade. It was merely an observation, which has been blown up
&gt; out of all proportion by our resident population of friendly neighbourhood
&gt; blowing-things-up-out-of-all-proportion people.
&gt;

Because y'know, we weren't asking you to clarify that you didn't mean
that.

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

There is no magic bullet. There are, however, plenty of bullets that
magically home in on feet when not used in exactly the right circumstances.

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#489: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 05:42:39 by Brenda

Lesley Weston said:

&gt; This is perhaps more relevant than you realise - you've been away from the
&gt; group for a while, so you might not have seen all the monster threads that
&gt; have been spawned lately by Richard's hot-button topic of fundamentalist
&gt; Christianity.

This, despite the fact that I rarely mention Christianity and am not a
fundamentalist (at least, the fundamentalists don't think I am).

&gt; Yes, I am naming the person whose posts I find offensive.

When they leave here, mostly they're vanilla. There have been a few
exasperated exceptions, I agree: one in the abortion thread, and several in
this one. But on the whole, my articles are not calculated to offend, and
in fact I try pretty hard to make sure they are not offensive. It seems,
however, that I continually underestimate the ability of some - and I mean

****** ****** * * ********
* * * * ** ** *
* * * * * * * *
****** * * * * * * ****
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
****** ****** * * ********

- afpers to take offence for the slightest of reasons.

&gt; It's only those posts of his on that and related subjects, such as the
&gt; present discussion, that annoy me, but they seem to outweigh his (always
&gt; witty and literate) posts on other subjects by quite a bit in number and
&gt; length.

I guess there's more of them because people are more interested in
discussing such matters, and so I end up having to type more replies. As
for the length, I don't aim for length, I assure you! I merely say what it
occurs to me to say when I think I hear people say things. More, I cannot
say.

Oops! I appear to have slipped into Hitch-Hiker mode. &lt;blush&gt;


--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#490: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 05:42:39 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Fri, 2 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; It seems,
&gt; however, that I continually underestimate the ability of some - and I mean
&gt;
&gt; ****** ****** * * ********
&gt; * * * * ** ** *
&gt; * * * * * * * *
&gt; ****** * * * * * * ****
&gt; * * * * * * * *
&gt; * * * * * * * *
&gt; ****** ****** * * ********
&gt;
&gt; - afpers to take offence for the slightest of reasons.
&gt;

You realise that this is tantamount to describing the offence I've taken
in this thread as having &quot;slight reasons&quot;, yes? Is this intended, or at
the least something you chose to post in awareness of that?

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

Ivanova is always right.
I will listen to Ivanova.
I will not ignore Ivanova's recomendations.
Ivanova is God.
And, if this ever happens again, Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out!

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#491: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 05:42:39 by Brenda

Arthur Hagen said:

&gt; Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; But that's partly the point, isn't it? How many Pratchett fans have
&gt;&gt; subscribed to this group, read a few dozen articles, drawn the
&gt;&gt; inevitable conclusion, and quietly unsubscribed, never to be heard of
&gt;&gt; again?
&gt;
&gt; Before you ask that question to everyone else, perhaps you should ask
&gt; yourself how many of those might have left because they have no desire to
&gt; read your diatribes or overt religious admonitions?

Not wishing to trust my memory on the word &quot;diatribe&quot;, I've checked it in
the dictionary: it means &quot;abusive or bitter harangue&quot;. I'll concede /one/
bitter (but very very short) harangue, in the abortion thread; I retracted
it within a very short time, and I doubt very much whether it caused anyone
who read it to leave afp.

Apart from that one, though, I think you'd be hard put to find any examples
of diatribes on my part. And you would certainly find it very difficult
indeed to find even one &quot;overt religious admonition&quot; from me, here in afp.
But feel free to try. If you think you've found one, let's have the message
ID, please, so that those who care enough can check the context.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#492: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 05:42:39 by Brenda

Philippa Cowderoy said:

&gt; On Fri, 2 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; It seems,
&gt;&gt; however, that I continually underestimate the ability of some - and I
&gt;&gt; mean
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; ****** ****** * * ********
&gt;&gt; * * * * ** ** *
&gt;&gt; * * * * * * * *
&gt;&gt; ****** * * * * * * ****
&gt;&gt; * * * * * * * *
&gt;&gt; * * * * * * * *
&gt;&gt; ****** ****** * * ********
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; - afpers to take offence for the slightest of reasons.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; You realise that this is tantamount to describing the offence I've taken
&gt; in this thread as having &quot;slight reasons&quot;, yes?

Wow! I did it AGAIN!

Taking meta-offence takes the biscuit, it really does. Fcol, Philippa. And
Furrfu. Not to mention... but I needn't mention that.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#493: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 05:42:39 by exquisite witch peachy

Anastasia wrote:
&gt; CCA wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Peter Ellis wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;What's the current count on afp marriages? Well into double
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;figures by now, surely?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;And I had a year-long relationship with peachy.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Was there anyone here who hadn't figured out that we were a couple
&gt;&gt;&gt;for a long time? We broke up last August, but we're still friends.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;We met here on afp, and it was one of the most enriching
&gt;&gt;&gt;experiences I've ever had.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;I didn't know you and Peachy had been together, or even that Peachy
&gt;&gt;was bi at all!
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Now go back and read my report on the DC Minimeet and try to figure out what
&gt; I left out.

ROFL!!!

Tattletale!

&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Er...I hope I didn't cause any problems with that 'There was a lady
&gt;&gt;who swallowed a Peachy' rhyme a few weeks ago...
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; We both giggled ourselves silly.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Nice to hear you are still friends :-)
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Yes, it really is.
&gt;

Report this message

#494: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 05:42:39 by Philippa Cowderoy

I didn't get round to responding to this post earlier, and I should have.

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; *I CAN'T TELL IF YOU'RE TRYING TO DISCUSS WHETHER I SHOULD HAVE TO HIDE
&gt; &gt; WHO I AM ON THIS NEWSGROUP,
&gt;
&gt; I'm not.
&gt;

That statement alone isn't enough for me, I'm afraid. What you've said in
other posts about tone might be, except you've carried on to an extent
that leaves me wondering what proportion of my posts are supposed to carry
certain kinds of content. Please bear in mind that I tend to send most of
my flirts by email - though there was one earlier tonight that on almost
any other night I would've sent to the group on grounds of being
sufficiently amusing...

&gt; &gt;&gt; [...] Every post is written by /someone/ - and many people here post
&gt; &gt;&gt; stuff which would trip even a clueful parental control program. So when
&gt; &gt;&gt; one individual person asks &quot;have I ever posted stuff you think is OTT?&quot;,
&gt; &gt;&gt; it's hardly surprising if the answer is &quot;yes&quot;. That doesn't mean I'm
&gt; &gt;&gt; witch-hunting that person.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Quite. Witch hunts aren't about people, they're about witches.
&gt;
&gt; Witches are people too. Ask Nanny Ogg.
&gt;

This was not a good place if you're trying to be amusing.

&gt; &gt; Some people
&gt; &gt; here are concerned that you may consider things that're important to them
&gt; &gt; to be witchcraft.
&gt;
&gt; I don't.
&gt;

Without you discussing that, I can't know that - you don't know what's
important to me.

&gt; &gt; Please understand: you are seriously worrying people here.
&gt;
&gt; I think you overestimate my influence in afp. I merely gave my opinion. I
&gt; now find myself in the middle of a monster thread, and it's probably time I
&gt; shut up. Again. Because, yet again, nobody seems able to read what I
&gt; actually wrote, as they're too busy chasing chimerae of their own devising.
&gt;

You gave an opinion couched in the middle of a series of concepts that
tend to apply a &quot;one post is too many&quot; approach, notably filters that
attempt to judge a group as a whole. I don't think it's fair to accuse
people who took that to mean that there might be types of content you were
talking about avoiding of chasing chimerae of their own devising.

I also, incidentally, feel that you've been acting on an assumption of bad
faith on my part - most notably your reasons for refusing to discuss kinds
of content and your aligning &quot;further from the social norms&quot; with the
flirt threads being complained about (utterly *not* what I was talking
about).

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

Sometimes you gotta fight fire with fire. Most
of the time you just get burnt worse though.

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#495: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case akid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-02 05:42:39 by exquisite witch peachy

Anastasia wrote:

&gt; naomi wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;I really hope your ex and yourself can come to an agreement because
&gt;&gt;if you are lucky to have a good dad you really need him in your
&gt;&gt;life even as an adult and especially as a kid. I hope that if
&gt;&gt;anything ever happened between us my husband and I could at least
&gt;&gt;agree about the kids.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I can attest that it's possible to end a marriage gently, even though it
&gt; hurts abominably. Just never speaking in anger gets you most of the way
&gt; there, and remembering the love for your spouse, if you can, does most of
&gt; the rest.
&gt;

The catch being of course, that BOTH partners have to be willing to
do that.

It doesn't work just on one side. One person can get the ball
rolling, but you can't do it alone if the other side isn't willing.

Report this message

#496: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 05:42:39 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Fri, 2 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; On Fri, 2 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; It seems,
&gt; &gt;&gt; however, that I continually underestimate the ability of some - and I
&gt; &gt;&gt; mean
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; ****** ****** * * ********
&gt; &gt;&gt; * * * * ** ** *
&gt; &gt;&gt; * * * * * * * *
&gt; &gt;&gt; ****** * * * * * * ****
&gt; &gt;&gt; * * * * * * * *
&gt; &gt;&gt; * * * * * * * *
&gt; &gt;&gt; ****** ****** * * ********
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; - afpers to take offence for the slightest of reasons.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; You realise that this is tantamount to describing the offence I've taken
&gt; &gt; in this thread as having &quot;slight reasons&quot;, yes?
&gt;
&gt; Wow! I did it AGAIN!
&gt;
&gt; Taking meta-offence takes the biscuit, it really does. Fcol, Philippa. And
&gt; Furrfu. Not to mention... but I needn't mention that.
&gt;

Actually I'm using it to highlight an ongoing pattern in your posts. What
I'm offended by is your refusal to sit and listen for any length of time
to what it might be that's causing offence and your constant insistance
that it's all down to me reading in things that aren't there.

Now, perhaps you would like to explain how I'm supposed to have concluded
that &quot;some&quot; has never referred to me when you've spent a considerable
amount of effort on avoiding clarifying it? Leaving aside all the repeated
implications that I'm being stupid and can't read?

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

Performance anxiety leads to premature optimisation

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#497: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 05:42:39 by Brenda

Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Witch hunts aren't about people, they're about witches.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Witches are people too. Ask Nanny Ogg.
&gt;
&gt; This was not a good place if you're trying to be amusing.

What's the matter? Don't you think witches are people?


&gt;&gt; &gt; Some people
&gt;&gt; &gt; here are concerned that you may consider things that're important to
&gt;&gt; &gt; them to be witchcraft.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I don't.
&gt;
&gt; Without you discussing that, I can't know that -

I never even /mentioned/ witchcraft until someone else did. If you're simply
talking about the expression &quot;witch-hunt&quot;, which I did use (and please do
look carefully at /how/ I used it before jumping to any more conclusions),
then you are taking a commonly used phrase way out of context and then
blowing it up out of all proportion.

&gt; you don't know what's important to me.

&lt;shrug&gt; You don't know what's important to me, either. And?

&gt;&gt; &gt; Please understand: you are seriously worrying people here.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I think you overestimate my influence in afp. I merely gave my opinion. I
&gt;&gt; now find myself in the middle of a monster thread, and it's probably time
&gt;&gt; I shut up. Again. Because, yet again, nobody seems able to read what I
&gt;&gt; actually wrote, as they're too busy chasing chimerae of their own
&gt;&gt; devising.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; You gave an opinion couched in the middle of a series of concepts that
&gt; tend to apply a &quot;one post is too many&quot; approach,

I did? I just thought I was moaning about all this OTT stuff we've been
getting so much of in recent weeks. I didn't realise I was couching
anything in anything.

&gt; notably filters that attempt to judge a group as a whole.

It's very, very easy to say &quot;everybody&quot; or &quot;all&quot; when one means &quot;some
people&quot; and &quot;some&quot;. Someone else has certainly done this, in this very
thread, but I don't *think* I have. I have tried to be very careful /not/
to say that &quot;this whole group is OTT&quot; - and indeed I don't think that's
true.

&gt; I don't think it's fair to accuse
&gt; people who took that to mean that there might be types of content you were
&gt; talking about avoiding of chasing chimerae of their own devising.

I do, since I didn't say anything of the kind. If (some!) people want to
make stuff up, that's up to them, but they shouldn't blame me for the
result.

&gt; I also, incidentally, feel that you've been acting on an assumption of bad
&gt; faith on my part

Do you? Why do you think you might have that feeling, I wonder?

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#498: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 05:42:39 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:ir5IsWHUz0fEFw1V&#64;cableinet.co.uk" target="_blank">ir5IsWHUz0fEFw1V&#64;cableinet.co.uk</a>, Karen at <a href="mailto:Karen&#64;lspace.org" target="_blank">Karen&#64;lspace.org</a> wrote
on 01/06/2006 1:23 PM:

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; Could anyone else say if they disagree with the notion that we have had
&gt; an excess of innuendo in jokes lately and a break from them to get back
&gt; to regular channels would be rather nice?

I disagree. I don't read every post in every thread - some of them I find
boring or embarrassing. If people don't like innuendo or any other aspect of
some posts, they can also choose not to read those posts or even those
threads, without depriving those who do enjoy it of their harmless pleasure.
It's not as if there were no other threads on afp; there are quite a few
that have nothing to do with sex. Some of these were started by Anastasia,
who I suspect is right in her belief that she is one of the objects of
Richard's attack.
&gt;
&gt; After that I'm struggling to see what else is left to lie awake over.

Lying awake? Perhaps, but I would think it's unnecessary; afp is a pleasant
pastime, a bit of a giggle (sex-related or otherwise) and a little social
interaction, nothing more.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#499: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 05:42:39 by treesy2

Philippa Cowderoy wrote:
&gt; On Fri, 2 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; On Fri, 2 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; It seems,
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; however, that I continually underestimate the ability of some - and I
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; mean
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; ****** ****** * * ********
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; * * * * ** ** *
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; * * * * * * * *
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; ****** * * * * * * ****
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; * * * * * * * *
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; * * * * * * * *
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; ****** ****** * * ********
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; - afpers to take offence for the slightest of reasons.
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; You realise that this is tantamount to describing the offence I've taken
&gt; &gt; &gt; in this thread as having &quot;slight reasons&quot;, yes?
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Wow! I did it AGAIN!
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Taking meta-offence takes the biscuit, it really does. Fcol, Philippa. And
&gt; &gt; Furrfu. Not to mention... but I needn't mention that.
&gt; &gt;
&gt;
&gt; Actually I'm using it to highlight an ongoing pattern in your posts. What
&gt; I'm offended by is your refusal to sit and listen for any length of time
&gt; to what it might be that's causing offence and your constant insistance
&gt; that it's all down to me reading in things that aren't there.
&gt;
&gt; Now, perhaps you would like to explain how I'm supposed to have concluded
&gt; that &quot;some&quot; has never referred to me when you've spent a considerable
&gt; amount of effort on avoiding clarifying it? Leaving aside all the repeated
&gt; implications that I'm being stupid and can't read?
&gt;


At this point I'd like to express how sorry I am for unleashing this
thread on the general AFPopulace, and remind people that sometimes
sitting on chairs is better than picking them up and throwing them at
your people. The same I imagine applies to alligators, although,
picking up an alligator is only the start of your troubles (and I don't
reccomend sitting on them either)....

Now let's make up and get back to the main topic on the thread,
adult-sex groups...... On the other hand, let's just look at a
subthread like Heinz ketchup. Heinz ketchup is... Heinz ketchup....
Umm, how about tabasco sauce instead.

treesy.

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#500: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 05:42:39 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:moSdneQMCflr0-LZRVny3w&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">moSdneQMCflr0-LZRVny3w&#64;bt.com</a>, Richard Heathfield at
<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 1:33 PM:

&gt; Arthur Hagen said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I and others discuss gender, BDSM, sexuality, sex, and other
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; matters. Do you object to this?
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Mu.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I fail to see how the question's invalid.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; If I say &quot;yes&quot;, some people will inevitably draw certain erroneous
&gt;&gt;&gt; conclusions about me. And if I say &quot;no&quot;, again, some people (possibly
&gt;&gt;&gt; the same people in some cases) will inevitably draw certain other
&gt;&gt;&gt; erroneous conclusions about me.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; And by evading the question,
&gt;
&gt; I didn't evade the question. I pointed out that either answer, yes or no,
&gt; will convey a wrong impression.

The question is very clear and not at all of the &quot;Have you stopped beating
your wife&quot; type. You didn't answer it, perhaps because either answer, yes or
no, would convey a right impression. If you don't want afp to know whether
or not you object, why did you raise the subject in the first place?

&gt;&gt; some people (possibly the same people in some
&gt;&gt; cases) will inevitably draw yet other conclusions about you, e.g. that in
&gt;&gt; /addition/ to probably thinking &quot;yes&quot;, you're spineless.
&gt;
&gt; Only stupid people would come to that conclusion, and most afpers aren't
&gt; stupid.

If that's the definition, then most of us are, indeed, stupid. Since we're
not stupid, you might want to work on a different definition, as well as
working on your posts so that you don't infuriate people unintentionally.
Assuming that it is unintentional.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#501: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 05:42:39 by Brenda

Philippa Cowderoy said:

&gt; What
&gt; I'm offended by is your refusal to sit and listen for any length of time
&gt; to what it might be that's causing offence and your constant insistance
&gt; that it's all down to me reading in things that aren't there.

Well, let's see.

&gt; Now, perhaps you would like to explain how I'm supposed to have concluded
&gt; that &quot;some&quot; has never referred to me when you've spent a considerable
&gt; amount of effort on avoiding clarifying it?

Why, do you think it ought to refer to you?

When I say &quot;some&quot;, I mean &quot;some&quot;, not &quot;all&quot;; and when I say &quot;some&quot;, it
doesn't necessarily include you. In fact, I use &quot;some&quot; precisely because it
means I can describe a characteristic of a subset of afp without singling
out any one person and thus, perhaps, making that person feel unfairly put
upon - which would otherwise be pretty likely, given the over-sensitive
nature of *some* people here. If I say &quot;such-and-such is part of that
'some', but so-and-so isn't&quot;, I not only /do/ make people feel put upon,
but also become guilty of judging individuals rather than making general
observations about behavioural characteristics of otherwise fairly
heterogenous groups.

&gt; Leaving aside all the repeated
&gt; implications that I'm being stupid and can't read?

I have on at least one occasion, within the last 48 hours, indeed, stated
that you are the exact opposite to 'stupid': &quot;Thanks for responding
intelligently, Philippa.&quot; And that was meant most sincerely. The response
that prompted me to say that was like a bright, rational light amid a sea
of fog. I don't see how that implies you're stupid. Indeed, if you look up
the word &quot;imply&quot; you'll find that there can only be one person in the world
who knows for sure what I'm implying, and that's me. What you infer is up
to you, obviously, but the implication of which you speak is simply
non-existent.

And it is self-evident that you *can* read. So I don't see how you get the
idea that I'm implying otherwise.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#502: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 05:42:39 by Brenda

Lesley Weston said:

&gt; If people don't like innuendo or any other aspect
&gt; of some posts, they can also choose not to read those posts or even those
&gt; threads, without depriving those who do enjoy it of their harmless
&gt; pleasure.

How do you tell which posts not to read?

&gt; It's not as if there were no other threads on afp; there are
&gt; quite a few that have nothing to do with sex. Some of these were started
&gt; by Anastasia, who I suspect is right in her belief that she is one of the
&gt; objects of Richard's attack.

I'm not attacking *anyone*. How many times, FCOL?!?!?!?!?!?

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#503: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 05:42:39 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Fri, 2 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt; &gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Witch hunts aren't about people, they're about witches.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Witches are people too. Ask Nanny Ogg.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; This was not a good place if you're trying to be amusing.
&gt;
&gt; What's the matter? Don't you think witches are people?
&gt;

Fine, I'll rephrase: stop taking the piss. I'm not in the mood for you
making nitpicky language jokes in the middle of a thread that's arisen at
least in part from your inability to express yourself clearly and which
has caused me considerable frustration. Continuing to make such jokes is
doing a disservice to both of us.

&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Some people
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; here are concerned that you may consider things that're important to
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; them to be witchcraft.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; I don't.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Without you discussing that, I can't know that -
&gt;
&gt; I never even /mentioned/ witchcraft until someone else did. If you're simply
&gt; talking about the expression &quot;witch-hunt&quot;, which I did use (and please do
&gt; look carefully at /how/ I used it before jumping to any more conclusions),
&gt; then you are taking a commonly used phrase way out of context and then
&gt; blowing it up out of all proportion.
&gt;

Karen appears to have understood my extending the analogy in this way, but
I guess I'll have to spell it out for you:

witch-hunt = persecution of witches
witches = practitioners of witchcraft

So witchcraft would be those things that those being witch-hunted are
being witch-hunted for, whether the witch-hunt is perceived or actual. I'm
not blowing the phrase out of all proportion, I'm merely using it to
continue discussing what I was already discussing. Frankly, being accused
of actual witchcraft would be the least of my concerns.

&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Please understand: you are seriously worrying people here.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; I think you overestimate my influence in afp. I merely gave my opinion. I
&gt; &gt;&gt; now find myself in the middle of a monster thread, and it's probably time
&gt; &gt;&gt; I shut up. Again. Because, yet again, nobody seems able to read what I
&gt; &gt;&gt; actually wrote, as they're too busy chasing chimerae of their own
&gt; &gt;&gt; devising.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; You gave an opinion couched in the middle of a series of concepts that
&gt; &gt; tend to apply a &quot;one post is too many&quot; approach,
&gt;
&gt; I did? I just thought I was moaning about all this OTT stuff we've been
&gt; getting so much of in recent weeks. I didn't realise I was couching
&gt; anything in anything.
&gt;

You were talking about parental control filters at the same time, and
about whether the group could be considered suitable for children - indeed
you expressed an opinion that it would be desirable if it could. The
common standard is that if something contains any content unsuitable for
children then it isn't suitable for children. At this point, it comes back
to &quot;imply&quot; meaning more than just a logical operator.

&gt; &gt; notably filters that attempt to judge a group as a whole.
&gt;
&gt; It's very, very easy to say &quot;everybody&quot; or &quot;all&quot; when one means &quot;some
&gt; people&quot; and &quot;some&quot;. Someone else has certainly done this, in this very
&gt; thread, but I don't *think* I have. I have tried to be very careful /not/
&gt; to say that &quot;this whole group is OTT&quot; - and indeed I don't think that's
&gt; true.
&gt;

IIRC (and at 5:50am I concede that I may not in fact RC) you did say you
wouldn't show it to your children and that you'd like that changed.

&gt; &gt; I don't think it's fair to accuse
&gt; &gt; people who took that to mean that there might be types of content you were
&gt; &gt; talking about avoiding of chasing chimerae of their own devising.
&gt;
&gt; I do, since I didn't say anything of the kind. If (some!) people want to
&gt; make stuff up, that's up to them, but they shouldn't blame me for the
&gt; result.
&gt;

You were most certainly talking about avoiding *something*. You hadn't
clarified that types of content weren't on the list. So how is it
unreasonable to conclude that you /might/ be talking about types of
content?

&gt; &gt; I also, incidentally, feel that you've been acting on an assumption of bad
&gt; &gt; faith on my part
&gt;
&gt; Do you? Why do you think you might have that feeling, I wonder?
&gt;

Because it appears to be true based on the things you snipped. You appear
to be saying that I have indeed acted in bad faith - I would appreciate it
if you point to where, as I've gone to considerable effort to avoid it.

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

'In Ankh-Morpork even the shit have a street to itself...
Truly this is a land of opportunity.' - Detritus, Men at Arms

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#504: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 05:42:39 by Brenda

Lesley Weston said:

&gt; most of us are, indeed, stupid.

I disagree. I also don't think you would have the support of the group in
your claim to speak for most of them.

See? I can do selective quotation too. It's hardly difficult to put words
into people's mouths by removing context.

And that's what some people have been doing to what I've written. Perhaps
they don't even realise they're doing it, but they're reading soundbites
rather than sentences, phrases instead of paragraphs, abridgements in place
of articles. That's why some people seem to think I'm on a witch-hunt,
attacking people, out to censor the group, and so on and so forth.

You see, if I were unscrupulous, I could keep on repeating that Lesley has
claimed that most afp subscribers are stupid - and no matter how many times
she denied it, or how hotly, there would always be some risk that somebody
would believe that claim. And there would even be some tru... well, no, not
truth, but some accuracy, at least.

But I am not unscrupulous, and I am not going to stoop so low. Lesley did
not mean any such thing. She knows it, and I know it, and indeed we all
know it.

Now would you folks *please* extend me the same courtesy?

Pretty please?

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#505: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 05:42:39 by Lesley Weston

in article cHIfg.7797$<a href="mailto:921.5015&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">921.5015&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>, Anastasia
at <a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 2:08 PM:

&gt; Arthur Hagen wrote:
&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; There is, however, an amount of him being rather nasty
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; No, that's not nasty. That's pretty mild, compared to some of the
&gt;&gt;&gt; stuff posted in this newsgroup. You can try for nasty if you like,
&gt;&gt;&gt; but I'm not good at nasty. I'm much better at straightforward and
&gt;&gt;&gt; polite.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Now try addressing Karen's substantive points instead of shifting
&gt;&gt;&gt; the ground.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; (Thank you, Karen. It's good to know that /some/ Terry Pratchett
&gt;&gt;&gt; fans can read.)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; If you don't think that what you said in parentheses there was
&gt;&gt; nasty -- to the majorit of the group, even -- you have a problem we
&gt;&gt; sure can't help you with.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; &quot;It's hard NOT to write satire.&quot;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; points for being able to ID the source

Could be TP himself, but I dunno. So I guess no points for me.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#506: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 05:42:39 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Fri, 2 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; And that's what some people have been doing to what I've written. Perhaps
&gt; they don't even realise they're doing it, but they're reading soundbites
&gt; rather than sentences, phrases instead of paragraphs, abridgements in place
&gt; of articles. That's why some people seem to think I'm on a witch-hunt,
&gt; attacking people, out to censor the group, and so on and so forth.
&gt;

The parts I quoted as being &quot;nasty&quot; I considered to be nasty even with the
context in place - indeed I wouldn't have done so otherwise. I probably
should've included Message-IDs as well, but I'd assumed that Karen could
find the posts and check for context herself if needed.

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

'In Ankh-Morpork even the shit have a street to itself...
Truly this is a land of opportunity.' - Detritus, Men at Arms

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#507: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 05:42:39 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Fri, 2 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; What
&gt; &gt; I'm offended by is your refusal to sit and listen for any length of time
&gt; &gt; to what it might be that's causing offence and your constant insistance
&gt; &gt; that it's all down to me reading in things that aren't there.
&gt;
&gt; Well, let's see.
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Now, perhaps you would like to explain how I'm supposed to have concluded
&gt; &gt; that &quot;some&quot; has never referred to me when you've spent a considerable
&gt; &gt; amount of effort on avoiding clarifying it?
&gt;
&gt; Why, do you think it ought to refer to you?
&gt;

I'm aware that in at least one case there are people who would say it
should. See earlier comments about social norms - there are parents who
would very much like to pretend to their children that people like me
don't exist.

&gt; When I say &quot;some&quot;, I mean &quot;some&quot;, not &quot;all&quot;; and when I say &quot;some&quot;, it
&gt; doesn't necessarily include you. In fact, I use &quot;some&quot; precisely because it
&gt; means I can describe a characteristic of a subset of afp without singling
&gt; out any one person and thus, perhaps, making that person feel unfairly put
&gt; upon - which would otherwise be pretty likely, given the over-sensitive
&gt; nature of *some* people here.

Unfortunately, that stops working when people can see reasons that they
might be part of the subset and aren't sure whether or not they are - and
doubly so if they've been victimised by society over the issue they're
concerned about (&quot;why do all these queer people have to keep talking
about it?&quot;). Which I recall my earliest posts about this trying to
point out.

&gt; If I say &quot;such-and-such is part of that
&gt; 'some', but so-and-so isn't&quot;, I not only /do/ make people feel put upon,
&gt; but also become guilty of judging individuals rather than making general
&gt; observations about behavioural characteristics of otherwise fairly
&gt; heterogenous groups.
&gt;

So narrow down the behavioural characteristics instead.

&gt; &gt; Leaving aside all the repeated
&gt; &gt; implications that I'm being stupid and can't read?
&gt;
&gt; I have on at least one occasion, within the last 48 hours, indeed, stated
&gt; that you are the exact opposite to 'stupid': &quot;Thanks for responding
&gt; intelligently, Philippa.&quot; And that was meant most sincerely. The response
&gt; that prompted me to say that was like a bright, rational light amid a sea
&gt; of fog. I don't see how that implies you're stupid.

However, the part where my immediate reaction to your &quot;Mu&quot; response was
much the same as Arthur's and you stated that nobody with a brain would
believe that did.

&gt; Indeed, if you look up
&gt; the word &quot;imply&quot; you'll find that there can only be one person in the world
&gt; who knows for sure what I'm implying, and that's me.

Wasn't the case when I looked it up earlier: things have meaning to the
reader as well as the writer.

&gt; And it is self-evident that you *can* read. So I don't see how you get the
&gt; idea that I'm implying otherwise.
&gt;

Beyond you having actively stated at least once that nobody who can read
could reach a conclusion I had in fact reached?

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

A problem that's all in your head is still a problem.
Brain damage is but one form of mind damage.

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#508: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 07:26:51 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:Mo-dnXMl0pO2_OLZnZ2dnUVZ8sidnZ2d&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">Mo-dnXMl0pO2_OLZnZ2dnUVZ8sidnZ2d&#64;bt.com</a>, Richard Heathfield at
<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 2:51 PM:

&gt; Hendrik Schober said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; (Thank you, Karen. It's good to know that /some/ Terry Pratchett fans can
&gt;&gt;&gt; read.)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Ouch.
&gt;&gt; (Whenever logic fails, resort to name-calling?)
&gt;
&gt; What's &quot;name-calling&quot; about it? Read the thread again. See for yourself.
&gt; This isn't a failure of logic, but a failure on the part of several afp
&gt; people to read what's in front of their noses. They're not reading what I'm
&gt; actually writing.

&quot;It's good to know that /some/ Terry Pratchett fans can read.&quot; If /some/
[your emphasis] can, then others (by implication most) can't; that's
name-calling. We have all read what you actually wrote at first, and that's
what irritated some of us. You are now saying that you didn't mean what you
said so clearly (no-one is accusing *you* of being illiterate), but are
refusing to say what you did mean, leaving us with no alternative but to go
on thinking that you did mean exactly what you wrote. This is despite
several people having told you how hurtful it is to be told such things as
you wrote and appeared to mean. Which is why some of us are still irritated.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#509: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 07:31:01 by Brenda

Philippa Cowderoy said:

&gt; I'm not in the mood for you
&gt; making nitpicky language jokes in the middle of a thread that's arisen at
&gt; least in part from your inability to express yourself clearly

I'm not in the mood to hear about what you're not in the mood for, and I'm
not in the mood to be told I can't express myself clearly when I've made my
views crystal clear several times over now, and still some people don't
seem to be able to read plain English. I find it difficult to believe that
you are one such, so your continued misunderstanding of my position is most
frustrating.

&gt;&gt; I never even /mentioned/ witchcraft until someone else did. If you're
&gt;&gt; simply talking about the expression &quot;witch-hunt&quot;, which I did use (and
&gt;&gt; please do look carefully at /how/ I used it before jumping to any more
&gt;&gt; conclusions), then you are taking a commonly used phrase way out of
&gt;&gt; context and then blowing it up out of all proportion.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Karen appears to have understood my extending the analogy in this way, but
&gt; I guess I'll have to spell it out for you:
&gt;
&gt; witch-hunt = persecution of witches
&gt; witches = practitioners of witchcraft
&gt;
&gt; So witchcraft would be those things that those being witch-hunted are
&gt; being witch-hunted for, whether the witch-hunt is perceived or actual.

This is ridiculous. I was using a metaphor. And I was using it to indicate
disapproval and rejection of the idea of singling people out - in other
words, disapproval and rejection of a &quot;witch-hunt&quot;.

Here is the original context: &quot;Every post is written by /someone/ - and many
people here post stuff which would trip even a clueful parental control
program. So when one individual person asks &quot;have I ever posted stuff you
think is OTT?&quot;, it's hardly surprising if the answer is &quot;yes&quot;. That doesn't
mean I'm witch-hunting that person.&quot;


&gt; You were talking about parental control filters at the same time, and
&gt; about whether the group could be considered suitable for children - indeed
&gt; you expressed an opinion that it would be desirable if it could.

Indeed. And I continue to hold that opinion.

&gt; The
&gt; common standard is that if something contains any content unsuitable for
&gt; children then it isn't suitable for children.

Eric Jarvis has already dealt admirably with this point, and I concur with
his view.

&gt; At this point, it comes back
&gt; to &quot;imply&quot; meaning more than just a logical operator.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; notably filters that attempt to judge a group as a whole.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; It's very, very easy to say &quot;everybody&quot; or &quot;all&quot; when one means &quot;some
&gt;&gt; people&quot; and &quot;some&quot;. Someone else has certainly done this, in this very
&gt;&gt; thread, but I don't *think* I have. I have tried to be very careful /not/
&gt;&gt; to say that &quot;this whole group is OTT&quot; - and indeed I don't think that's
&gt;&gt; true.
&gt;
&gt; IIRC (and at 5:50am

Tell me about it (sigh).

&gt; I concede that I may not in fact RC) you did say you
&gt; wouldn't show it to your children and that you'd like that changed.

Certainly true. But that is not because I think this whole group is OTT. But
the number of articles that /are/, is such a high proportion of the total
number of articles, that I do not feel able to allow my children, who are
Pratchett fans, to read the group at present.


&gt;&gt; &gt; I don't think it's fair to accuse
&gt;&gt; &gt; people who took that to mean that there might be types of content you
&gt;&gt; &gt; were talking about avoiding of chasing chimerae of their own devising.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I do, since I didn't say anything of the kind. If (some!) people want to
&gt;&gt; make stuff up, that's up to them, but they shouldn't blame me for the
&gt;&gt; result.
&gt;
&gt; You were most certainly talking about avoiding *something*. You hadn't
&gt; clarified that types of content weren't on the list. So how is it
&gt; unreasonable to conclude that you /might/ be talking about types of
&gt; content?

Did you see this, from Eric Jarvis? &quot;However we should try to pitch the
tenor of the group somewhere close to the tenor of the books. That means
being aware of where the gutter is and commenting subtly on its contents,
without actually diving in for a swim.&quot;

And did you see my reply to it?

If so, then I think you'll agree that my position is very clear, and has
been very clear through the greater part of this thread.

&gt; [...] based on the things you snipped.

I haven't got time to read everything everyone says, let alone reply to it,
especially in one of these ridiculous one-sided discussions. (Well, almost
one-sided. One or two honorable exceptions.)

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#510: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 07:31:33 by Lesley Weston

in article 9NIfg.7802$<a href="mailto:921.3501&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">921.3501&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>, Anastasia
at <a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 2:14 PM:

&gt; Peter Ellis wrote:

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt;&gt; What's the current count on afp marriages? Well into double
&gt;&gt; figures by now, surely?
&gt;
&gt; And I had a year-long relationship with peachy.
&gt;
&gt; Was there anyone here who hadn't figured out that we were a couple for a
&gt; long time? We broke up last August, but we're still friends.

I guessed. But neither of you mentioned it till now, and anyway it ain't
nobody's business if you do. Unless you want it to be, of course.
&gt;
&gt; We met here on afp, and it was one of the most enriching experiences I've
&gt; ever had.

Good!

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#511: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 07:35:13 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:86bqtcjzr3.fsf&#64;happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk" target="_blank">86bqtcjzr3.fsf&#64;happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk</a>, Matthew
Seaman at <a href="mailto:m.seaman&#64;infracaninophile.co.uk" target="_blank">m.seaman&#64;infracaninophile.co.uk</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 3:08 PM:

&gt; &quot;Anastasia&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; writes:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Philippa Cowderoy wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I'm not in favour of the Cult of Stacie either, and that's speaking
&gt;&gt;&gt; as someone who's really looking forward to having her visit for a
&gt;&gt;&gt; day or two after the con.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; *STACIE* isn't even in favor of the Cult of Stacie. In fatc, I named it that
&gt;&gt; in an MSN discussion with Phillipa.
&gt;
&gt; Is that anything like the Cult of Kali[1], only with fewer Thugs and
&gt; more Gags?
&gt;
&gt; Cheers,
&gt;
&gt; Matthew
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; [1] Notice that Kali has -- count them -- eight limbs, and is
&gt; therefore intrinsically evil. And probably hiding in your shower.

Applause!

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#512: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 07:45:30 by Brenda

Philippa Cowderoy said:

&gt; On Fri, 2 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; If I say &quot;such-and-such is part of that
&gt;&gt; 'some', but so-and-so isn't&quot;, I not only /do/ make people feel put upon,
&gt;&gt; but also become guilty of judging individuals rather than making general
&gt;&gt; observations about behavioural characteristics of otherwise fairly
&gt;&gt; heterogenous groups.
&gt;
&gt; So narrow down the behavioural characteristics instead.

Here's a starting point:

Karen: &quot;Could anyone else say if they disagree with the notion that we have
had an excess of innuendo in jokes lately and a break from them to get back
to regular channels would be rather nice?&quot;

Eric: &quot;I disagree. It isn't an excess of innuendo. It's a spate of poor
quality innuendo that isn't funny.&quot;

Karen: &quot;yeah probably, its been hard to tell the difference lately.&quot;

&gt;&gt; I don't see how that implies you're stupid.
&gt;
&gt; However, the part where my immediate reaction to your &quot;Mu&quot; response was
&gt; much the same as Arthur's and you stated that nobody with a brain would
&gt; believe that did.

&lt;shrug&gt; The question was broken, either by accident or by design.

&gt;&gt; Indeed, if you look up
&gt;&gt; the word &quot;imply&quot; you'll find that there can only be one person in the
&gt;&gt; world who knows for sure what I'm implying, and that's me.
&gt;
&gt; Wasn't the case when I looked it up earlier: things have meaning to the
&gt; reader as well as the writer.

Implying is what the writer (or speaker) does. The reader (or listener) does
not imply; he (or she) infers.


&gt;&gt; And it is self-evident that you *can* read. So I don't see how you get
&gt;&gt; the idea that I'm implying otherwise.
&gt;
&gt; Beyond you having actively stated at least once that nobody who can read
&gt; could reach a conclusion I had in fact reached?

I can no longer remember the specific conclusion in question. It's so late
here it's not even early any more.

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#513: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 07:50:14 by Brenda

Lesley Weston said:

&gt; in article <a href="mailto:Mo-dnXMl0pO2_OLZnZ2dnUVZ8sidnZ2d&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">Mo-dnXMl0pO2_OLZnZ2dnUVZ8sidnZ2d&#64;bt.com</a>, Richard Heathfield at
&gt; <a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 2:51 PM:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Hendrik Schober said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (Thank you, Karen. It's good to know that /some/ Terry Pratchett fans
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; can read.)
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Ouch.
&gt;&gt;&gt; (Whenever logic fails, resort to name-calling?)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; What's &quot;name-calling&quot; about it? Read the thread again. See for yourself.
&gt;&gt; This isn't a failure of logic, but a failure on the part of several afp
&gt;&gt; people to read what's in front of their noses. They're not reading what
&gt;&gt; I'm actually writing.
&gt;
&gt; &quot;It's good to know that /some/ Terry Pratchett fans can read.&quot; If /some/
&gt; [your emphasis] can, then others (by implication most) can't;

Not you too. Go look up &quot;implication&quot;. And whilst it is true that &quot;some&quot; has
a gazillion meanings, I know which one I meant.

&gt; that's name-calling.

No, it's exasperation because some people either can't or won't read what's
in front of their noses.

&gt; We have all read what you actually wrote at first,

Well, Karen has, anyway.


--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#514: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 07:57:29 by steelcat

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1149202625.928125.211830&#64;c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1149202625.928125.211830&#64;c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
&quot;CCA&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Anastasia wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; ...if you come right down to it, I am attracted to several afpers. Even ones
&gt;&gt; I haven't seen pictures of.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I'm sufficiently unusual that I don't find a lot of people I like who also
&gt;&gt; like me. I'm not actually trolling for dates here, but if a relationship
&gt;&gt; with an afper developed, well, nifty.
&gt;
&gt;Well, why not? It's a good place to meet like-minded people. I met my
&gt;best mate through afp, and most of my other mates too :-)

And I met my best pal through the fallout from a thread much like this one,
so *some* good comes of this kind of thing. ;o)

Cat.
--
Jazz-Loving Soul Mate and Tolerable Frog to CCA
We gotta go to the crappy town where *I'm* a hero.

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#515: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a kid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-02 08:00:23 by Hendrik Schober

Daibhid Ceanaideach &lt;<a href="mailto:daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">daibhidchenedelh&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; [...]
&gt; My mum doesn't believe that the Internet is the sole preserve
&gt; of low-lifes. She *does* however believe that everyone on afp
&gt; is a weirdo. (This *definitely* includes me...)

She is a very smart woman then. :o&gt;

Schobi

--
<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a> is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

&quot;The sarcasm is mightier than the sword.&quot;
Eric Jarvis

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#516: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 08:10:12 by Hendrik Schober

Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Lesley Weston said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; most of us are, indeed, stupid.
&gt;
&gt; I disagree. I also don't think you would have the support of the group in
&gt; your claim to speak for most of them.
&gt;
&gt; See? I can do selective quotation too. It's hardly difficult to put words
&gt; into people's mouths by removing context.

Except that Lesley quoted your posting in full.

&gt; [...]

Schobi

--
<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a> is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

&quot;The sarcasm is mightier than the sword.&quot;
Eric Jarvis

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#517: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 08:18:02 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Fri, 2 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; On Fri, 2 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt; I don't see how that implies you're stupid.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; However, the part where my immediate reaction to your &quot;Mu&quot; response was
&gt; &gt; much the same as Arthur's and you stated that nobody with a brain would
&gt; &gt; believe that did.
&gt;
&gt; &lt;shrug&gt; The question was broken, either by accident or by design.
&gt;

Not in the way you implied it was - mu wasn't the correct answer, &quot;I can't
find an adequate way to answer this correctly&quot; might've been.

&gt; &gt;&gt; Indeed, if you look up
&gt; &gt;&gt; the word &quot;imply&quot; you'll find that there can only be one person in the
&gt; &gt;&gt; world who knows for sure what I'm implying, and that's me.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Wasn't the case when I looked it up earlier: things have meaning to the
&gt; &gt; reader as well as the writer.
&gt;
&gt; Implying is what the writer (or speaker) does. The reader (or listener) does
&gt; not imply; he (or she) infers.
&gt;

I'd say implying is what the words (and any non-verbal communication) do.

&gt; &gt;&gt; And it is self-evident that you *can* read. So I don't see how you get
&gt; &gt;&gt; the idea that I'm implying otherwise.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Beyond you having actively stated at least once that nobody who can read
&gt; &gt; could reach a conclusion I had in fact reached?
&gt;
&gt; I can no longer remember the specific conclusion in question. It's so late
&gt; here it's not even early any more.
&gt;

I wouldn't go that far, but then you probably don't want to know what time
I usually actually wake up at... (UK here)

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

Society does not owe people jobs.
Society owes it to itself to find people jobs.

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#518: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 08:18:27 by April Goodwin-Smith

&quot;Anastasia&quot; wrote ...
&lt;snip&gt;
&gt; And I had a year-long relationship with peachy.
&gt; Was there anyone here who hadn't figured out that we were
&gt; a couple for a long time? We broke up last August, but we're
&gt; still friends.
&gt;

Er.....me.

My own life has until recently been full of extreme job stress,
so I might have been a little unobservant - but you guys didn't
actually yodel it on the newgroup, now, did you?

As an aside: I've been thinking about your nononogamous[1]
(snortle, I loved that when I read it) approach, and I think I need
at least serial monogamy. I think attraction is normal, but that
action is meant to be the collateral[2] for the words. So if I
*say* I love my SOGP, then my actions should be congruent
with that, which they wouldn't be if I acted on my attraction
to others.

Now I'm wondering how much of my interpretation of the
meaning of actions is mediated by my culture and how much
by my insecurities.

Anyhoo.
April.

[1] - honest: cut'n'pasted the word directly from your post -
perfect word, I think.
[2] - I've mentioned the spelling issue, right?

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#519: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 08:19:04 by Hendrik Schober

treesy &lt;<a href="mailto:treesy2&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">treesy2&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; [...]
&gt; At this point I'd like to express how sorry I am for unleashing this
&gt; thread on the general AFPopulace [...]

Actually, I don't think you did. This has been smoldering
for quite a while already and it isn't the first time it
inflames.
OTOH, we should probably be sorry that it was your very
introduction that was hijacked to span such a meta thread.

&gt; Now let's make up and get back to the main topic on the thread,
&gt; adult-sex groups...... On the other hand, let's just look at a
&gt; subthread like Heinz ketchup. Heinz ketchup is... Heinz ketchup....
&gt; Umm, how about tabasco sauce instead.

Urg.
Torak, are you with me on this one, too? Or did you mean
&quot;for once&quot; when you wrote so? (You never know, in this
group...)

&gt; treesy.

Anyway, welcome from me, too. Although I don't feel like
I am here long enough already to welcome anyone.

Schobi

--
<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a> is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

&quot;The sarcasm is mightier than the sword.&quot;
Eric Jarvis

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#520: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 08:19:07 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Fri, 2 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; I'm not in the mood for you
&gt; &gt; making nitpicky language jokes in the middle of a thread that's arisen at
&gt; &gt; least in part from your inability to express yourself clearly
&gt;
&gt; I'm not in the mood to hear about what you're not in the mood for, and I'm
&gt; not in the mood to be told I can't express myself clearly when I've made my
&gt; views crystal clear several times over now, and still some people don't
&gt; seem to be able to read plain English. I find it difficult to believe that
&gt; you are one such, so your continued misunderstanding of my position is most
&gt; frustrating.
&gt;

You'd already agreed that you'd been failing to communicate clearly
upthread, and we're still picking over the posts in question. Please note
that I now understand your position regarding the original subject: what I
am now discussing is why I've been offended by things you've said in this
thread, including things you've apparently said on the basis that your
position must've been clear earlier in the thread than it was.

That said, my phrasing was somewhat unfair. I hope you can see that if you
had any comprehension that what you wrote could read like piss-taking then
posting it in the middle of an already fraught thread wasn't particularly
fair on someone who is trying to explain her side of what happened.
Especially after it had been pointed out (perhaps insufficiently
directly?) once already.

&gt; &gt;&gt; I never even /mentioned/ witchcraft until someone else did. If you're
&gt; &gt;&gt; simply talking about the expression &quot;witch-hunt&quot;, which I did use (and
&gt; &gt;&gt; please do look carefully at /how/ I used it before jumping to any more
&gt; &gt;&gt; conclusions), then you are taking a commonly used phrase way out of
&gt; &gt;&gt; context and then blowing it up out of all proportion.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Karen appears to have understood my extending the analogy in this way, but
&gt; &gt; I guess I'll have to spell it out for you:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; witch-hunt = persecution of witches
&gt; &gt; witches = practitioners of witchcraft
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; So witchcraft would be those things that those being witch-hunted are
&gt; &gt; being witch-hunted for, whether the witch-hunt is perceived or actual.
&gt;
&gt; This is ridiculous. I was using a metaphor. And I was using it to indicate
&gt; disapproval and rejection of the idea of singling people out - in other
&gt; words, disapproval and rejection of a &quot;witch-hunt&quot;.
&gt;
&gt; Here is the original context: &quot;Every post is written by /someone/ - and many
&gt; people here post stuff which would trip even a clueful parental control
&gt; program. So when one individual person asks &quot;have I ever posted stuff you
&gt; think is OTT?&quot;, it's hardly surprising if the answer is &quot;yes&quot;. That doesn't
&gt; mean I'm witch-hunting that person.&quot;
&gt;

So to recap: the point of witch-hunts isn't to hunt down people, it's to
hunt down witches, those who practice witchcraft. Witches may happen to be
people but that's incidental (and that is why the sequence of responses
you snipped above appears to be taking the piss).

To extend further: an attack on behaviour that is important to a person is
an attack on that person. It's possible to disapprove of witch-hunts and
still unintentionally argue for one by targetting behaviour.

&gt;
&gt; &gt; You were talking about parental control filters at the same time, and
&gt; &gt; about whether the group could be considered suitable for children - indeed
&gt; &gt; you expressed an opinion that it would be desirable if it could.
&gt;
&gt; Indeed. And I continue to hold that opinion.
&gt;
&gt; &gt; The
&gt; &gt; common standard is that if something contains any content unsuitable for
&gt; &gt; children then it isn't suitable for children.
&gt;
&gt; Eric Jarvis has already dealt admirably with this point, and I concur with
&gt; his view.
&gt;

It's possible the post hasn't shown up on my server, all I see (and I just
checked) aside from the part quoted below is a lot about not posting
things intended for one person or cascades of unfunny flirts - that
doesn't seem to me to deal with that point.

&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; I don't think it's fair to accuse
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; people who took that to mean that there might be types of content you
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; were talking about avoiding of chasing chimerae of their own devising.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; I do, since I didn't say anything of the kind. If (some!) people want to
&gt; &gt;&gt; make stuff up, that's up to them, but they shouldn't blame me for the
&gt; &gt;&gt; result.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; You were most certainly talking about avoiding *something*. You hadn't
&gt; &gt; clarified that types of content weren't on the list. So how is it
&gt; &gt; unreasonable to conclude that you /might/ be talking about types of
&gt; &gt; content?
&gt;
&gt; Did you see this, from Eric Jarvis? &quot;However we should try to pitch the
&gt; tenor of the group somewhere close to the tenor of the books. That means
&gt; being aware of where the gutter is and commenting subtly on its contents,
&gt; without actually diving in for a swim.&quot;
&gt;
&gt; And did you see my reply to it?
&gt;
&gt; If so, then I think you'll agree that my position is very clear, and has
&gt; been very clear through the greater part of this thread.
&gt;

You thought wrong, largely because of the amount of additional information
you offered - amongst other things, our views may well differ on what
constitutes the gutter in the first place. It didn't help that some of the
phrasing you used to discuss those playing in it bore a strong resemblance
to wording used by parents and pseudo-parental figures to denigrate those
who talk about certain subjects - wording in which the uncertainty of
&quot;some&quot; is used as a tool for abuse. Unfortunately it's not overly
surprising that it thus caught several of us who you didn't intend it to.

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

Ivanova is always right.
I will listen to Ivanova.
I will not ignore Ivanova's recomendations.
Ivanova is God.
And, if this ever happens again, Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out!

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#521: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-02 08:26:54 by Flesh-eating Dragon

Lister wrote:
&gt; Anastasia wrote:

&gt;&gt;I find that intriguing and slightly boggling. Gods know I've bitten enough
&gt;&gt;people.
&gt;
&gt; Do you find they taste like chicken?

Actually, people taste more like pork.

Adrian.

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#522: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a

Posted on 2006-06-02 08:32:22 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:moSdneIMCfkxyOLZRVny3w&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">moSdneIMCfkxyOLZRVny3w&#64;bt.com</a>, Richard Heathfield at
<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 2:02 PM:

&gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; What's up is that you are not in a position of authority, yet you persist
&gt;&gt; in being patronising.
&gt;
&gt; No, I'm not patronising, any more than you are matronising.

Yes you are.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; On top of that, you lack vision
&gt;
&gt; I'm blind? Eesh. Don't tell my eyes.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; and blame what you can't see on others making things up.
&gt;
&gt; If I can't see it, why should I blame it on *anything*? Why should I even
&gt; know it exists?

Can you really not see why this is so irritating that normally mild-mannered
people are taking pot-shots at you?

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#523: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 08:34:21 by Diane L

Richard Heathfield wrote:

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; His constantly
&gt; uncomprehending stupidity would be fair enough in isolation; his
&gt; sarcasm would also be fair enough in isolation; but the combination
&gt; is most infuriating.

Can I make a suggestion? When you start feeling like that about a
poster (*any* poster) it's best to killfile him, for both your sakes.

Diane L.

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#524: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a

Posted on 2006-06-02 08:34:28 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:1149192527.865796.57200&#64;i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1149192527.865796.57200&#64;i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com</a>, CCA at
<a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 1:08 PM:

&gt; Eric Jarvis wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Why on earth would I be embarrassed to invite my mother to afp? Apart from
&gt;&gt; the small details that she hasn't read any of the books yet and doesn't
&gt;&gt; own a computer.
&gt;
&gt; I often tell my Mum things from afp. In fact, she often asks how
&gt; everyone is when I switch it off :-)

My son reads afp when he gets time. Does that count?

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#525: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-02 08:35:02 by April Goodwin-Smith

&quot;8'FED&quot; wrote ...
&gt; Lister wrote:
&gt;&gt; Anastasia wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;I find that intriguing and slightly boggling. Gods know I've
&gt;&gt;&gt;bitten enough people.
&gt;&gt; Do you find they taste like chicken?
&gt;
&gt; Actually, people taste more like pork.
&gt;

I so entirely do not want to know how you know that - oh
wait: you're a dragon, right?

Sorry, my mistake.

April.

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#526: Re: [M] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-02 08:43:50 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:MPG.1ee8a432117077f2989c4f&#64;cenote.gkhs.net" target="_blank">MPG.1ee8a432117077f2989c4f&#64;cenote.gkhs.net</a>, Eric Jarvis at
<a href="mailto:usenet&#64;ericjarvis.co.uk" target="_blank">usenet&#64;ericjarvis.co.uk</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 12:14 AM:

&gt; Lesley Weston <a href="mailto:brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk</a> wrote in
&gt; &lt;C0A39B9F.486C5%<a href="mailto:brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt;:
&gt;&gt; in article <a href="mailto:MPG.1ee7dd12ec26116e989c4b&#64;cenote.gkhs.net" target="_blank">MPG.1ee7dd12ec26116e989c4b&#64;cenote.gkhs.net</a>, Eric Jarvis at
&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:usenet&#64;ericjarvis.co.uk" target="_blank">usenet&#64;ericjarvis.co.uk</a> wrote on 31/05/2006 10:05 AM:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Thomas Zahr <a href="mailto:ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de" target="_blank">ThomasZahr0604&#64;geekmail.de</a> wrote in
&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:Xns97D4A907439F3ThomasZahrfreenetde&#64;ID-179574.user.uni-berlin.de" target="_blank">Xns97D4A907439F3ThomasZahrfreenetde&#64;ID-179574.user.uni-berlin.de</a>&gt;:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So we have to ask ourselves, ok don't have to, but at least
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; could, if we could up the content, and move off &quot;stacie-dom&quot;,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; slightly.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; A very simple ground rule is this. It's OK to include a certain amount of
&gt;&gt;&gt; flirting in a post that exists for other reasons, if the sole reason for
&gt;&gt;&gt; the post is to flirt then it should probably either be an email or not
&gt;&gt;&gt; exist. Unless, of course, if it's funny.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; If it isn't funny, it isn't flirting.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Personally I concur, however I'm pretty sure that it isn't something
&gt; universally agreed on.

No? I can't think of any examples, here or in RL, where flirting wasn't at
least intended to be funny. Maybe others can?

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#527: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-02 08:44:55 by Flesh-eating Dragon

April Goodwin-Smith wrote:
&gt; 8'FED wrote ...

&gt;&gt; Actually, people taste more like pork.
&gt;
&gt; I so entirely do not want to know how you know that - oh
&gt; wait: you're a dragon, right?

I also read it in a science magazine.

Adrian.

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#528: Re: [M] was: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 08:45:03 by April Goodwin-Smith

&quot;Anastasia&quot; wrote ...
&gt; April Goodwin-Smith wrote:
&gt;&gt; the my leather trousers are cuter and tighter and shinier
&gt;&gt; and more trancendental that your leather trousers
&gt;
&gt; See, I *like* how YOU say that.
&gt;

eyethangyew

April.

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#529: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 08:45:53 by Brenda

[caveat lector: much unmarked snippage - I'm tired]

Philippa Cowderoy said:

&gt; Please note
&gt; that I now understand your position regarding the original subject:

At last. Thank you.

&gt; I hope you can see that if you
&gt; had any comprehension that what you wrote could read like piss-taking then
&gt; posting it in the middle of an already fraught thread wasn't particularly
&gt; fair on someone who is trying to explain her side of what happened.
&gt; Especially after it had been pointed out (perhaps insufficiently
&gt; directly?) once already.

In the interests of amity, I am tempted to suggest that we both plead that
combining an all-night hacking run with an all-day-all-night afp
monsterthread isn't the best way to win friends and influence people.

&gt; So to recap: the point of witch-hunts isn't to hunt down people, it's to
&gt; hunt down witches, those who practice witchcraft.

So to recap: the point of metaphors is that they are colourful; they enliven
an explanation or description, without anyone needing to take them
literally.

&gt; It didn't help that some of the phrasing you used to discuss those
&gt; playing in [the gutter, presumably] bore a strong resemblance
&gt; to wording used by parents and pseudo-parental figures

Since I /am/ a parent, and since I spend way too much time in IRC in a
&quot;pseudo-parental&quot; (actually, teaching) role, I guess that's inevitable,
although by no means intentional.

&gt; Unfortunately it's not overly
&gt; surprising that it thus caught several of us who you didn't intend it to.

I think &quot;unfortunate&quot; covers a multitude of articles posted in this thread.
I'm not overly good at ASCII art, but here's an attempt at an olive branch:

\ \
\ o \
\ l \
\ i \
\ v \
\ e \ / /
\ \/ /
\ /
\ /
| |
| |

Well, I did warn you...

--
Richard Heathfield
&quot;Usenet is a strange place&quot; - dmr 29/7/1999
<a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.cpax.org.uk</a>
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

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#530: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 08:47:48 by Hendrik Schober

Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Lesley Weston said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; If people don't like innuendo or any other aspect
&gt; &gt; of some posts, they can also choose not to read those posts or even those
&gt; &gt; threads, without depriving those who do enjoy it of their harmless
&gt; &gt; pleasure.
&gt;
&gt; How do you tell which posts not to read?

If I read a posting that I am not interested in and it
has a subtree of other postings under it, I decide
whether to fold in the whole subtree and mark it as
closed or first poke into it to see whether the subject
changes somewhere further down.

&gt; [...]
&gt; I'm not attacking *anyone*. How many times, FCOL?!?!?!?!?!?

More than one person felt like you attacked. IME it is
impossible to undo this by doing &quot;I didn't do it!&quot;. It
is, however, possible to get people to forget about it
if one says &quot;I am sorry, if you fell like it. I did not
mean to.&quot; in a way that people believe it's true that
you're sorry.
Mhmm. I am always amazed when I discover that I need to
repeat such basic rules to my kids. Sorry, if I sound
patronizing (or whatever the propper English word is
in this case).

Schobi

--
<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a> is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

&quot;The sarcasm is mightier than the sword.&quot;
Eric Jarvis

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#531: Re: [M] was: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 08:48:30 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:s7qdnZ1BNr2iMOPZRVnygw&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">s7qdnZ1BNr2iMOPZRVnygw&#64;bt.com</a>, Richard Heathfield at
<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 2:03 AM:

&gt; April Goodwin-Smith said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; &quot;Richard Heathfield&quot; wrote ...
&gt;&gt;&gt; CCA said:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; You might think &quot;adults&quot; would be clever enough to find topics of
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; discussion that are suitable for younger Pratchett fans to join in,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; But it is primarily a newsgroup for adults,
&gt;&gt;&gt; Surely it is primarily a newsgroup for Terry Pratchett fans. He has
&gt;&gt;&gt; written several excellent stories for children.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; It is primarily a newsgroup for people who want to post here.
&gt;
&gt; So you would have no objection, then, to spam attacks on this group? After
&gt; all, spammers wouldn't post here if they didn't want to, so are you saying
&gt; that you'd be in favour of this group being heavily and regularly spammed?
&gt; I think you value the afp community more highly than that.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I will not be bullied by your prudery thinly masked as concern
&gt;&gt; for the sensibilities of the more tender members of your family.
&gt;
&gt; I'm not trying to bully you. I'm trying to discuss the subject under
&gt; discussion. If you have a problem with that, then you don't really believe
&gt; what you said about this being &quot;a newsgroup for people who want to post
&gt; here&quot;.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; If this newsgroup offends you, then read one that does not.
&gt;
&gt; Ah, so if I'm reading the subtext properly here, this newsgroup is /really/
&gt; for &quot;people who want to post here, provided they do not disagree with April
&gt; Goodwin-Smith&quot;, right?

Richard, a word in your shell-like... It's gone beyond anything you can
handle. This is because you are in the wrong in this discussion. Making
personal attacks on other afpers isn't going to make you right, it's just
going to annoy everybody even more.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#532: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 08:51:55 by Diane L

Karen wrote:

&gt; I've just read this thread from the top again and it is entirely
&gt; possible I'm missing posts but I can't see anywhere that Richard has
&gt; actually proposed censoring or moderating the newsgroup or asking
&gt; people not to post on sexual topics. I've seen lots of people assume
&gt; that this is what he means but I can't find him actually saying it
&gt; anywhere.
&lt;large amounts of snippetry&gt;

My problem is, I can't find him actually saying anywhere exactly
what it is that he finds so objectionable. I know there are things
here that he wouldn't want a dog subjected to, and that he
wouldn't want his mother to read, but I'm still not clear what
they are or were other than they involve &quot;adult&quot; content (with
quotation marks).

If he's objecting to the 'flirting' spreading into lots of threads, that's
fair enough. I haven't noticed it myself, but I've been skipping a
fair bit of afp lately, so it's entirely possible that I've missed it, or
that my annoyance threshhold is higher than Richard's at the
moment. But that's not the impression I get (and an impression
is all I can go on because he hasn't given specifics [1]). If there's
an unacceptably sleazy side to afp at the moment I'm missing it,
either because I'm skipping those threads, I'm so ensconced in the
gutter that I've lost sight of anything above that level or I've been
working with teenagers so long I've forgotten what 'decent'
conversation is really like.

So far, this thread has produced far more heat than light. I think
this is partly due to the number of people telling Richard what
they thought he meant, but also partly to Richard not being clear
on what he actually did mean. It's clear that he finds either the
content or the tone of many or most of the posts on afp to be
unsuitable for children, but which posts, and why?

[1] I still haven't reached the end of this thread, and it's grown
even longer since I went to bed last night, so if Richard *has*
made his objection plain I apologise for missing it.

Diane L.

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#533: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a

Posted on 2006-06-02 08:58:25 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:Ds-dnTPTWvzPj-LZRVny0Q&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">Ds-dnTPTWvzPj-LZRVny0Q&#64;bt.com</a>, Richard Heathfield at
<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 9:15 AM:

&gt; <a href="mailto:geminii&#64;tpg.com.au" target="_blank">geminii&#64;tpg.com.au</a> said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 14:24:17 +0000, Richard Heathfield
&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I'm not condemning anybody. I'm merely expressing an opinion about some of
&gt;&gt;&gt; the content posted here
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; One which has been raised and raised again from time immemorial
&gt;
&gt; ...which in itself suggests that there is something here worth discussing.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; and every time has been shot down to die festering in the gutter.
&gt;
&gt; Yes, it's much easier to shoot down a good idea than to make it work.

So that *is* what you wanted, despite your denials and attacks on people who
did understand what you meant after all. Oh, and it's impossible to shoot
down a good idea; only a poor one can be shot down.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#534: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 08:58:34 by Hendrik Schober

raymond larsson &lt;<a href="mailto:raglegumm&#64;sasktel.net.invalid" target="_blank">raglegumm&#64;sasktel.net.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:R-SdnWztZIev1eLZnZ2dnUVZ8qadnZ2d&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">R-SdnWztZIev1eLZnZ2dnUVZ8qadnZ2d&#64;bt.com</a>&gt;, Richard Heathfield
&gt; says...
&gt;
&gt; &gt; (Thank you, Karen. It's good to know that /some/ Terry Pratchett fans can
&gt; &gt; read.)
&gt;
&gt; Well obviously I am not one of them.

AOL
(Makes you wonder how all the others became interested in
this group...)

Schobi

--
<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a> is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

&quot;The sarcasm is mightier than the sword.&quot;
Eric Jarvis

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#535: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 09:00:37 by Philippa Cowderoy

On Fri, 2 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:

&gt; [caveat lector: much unmarked snippage - I'm tired]
&gt;

I probably should've snipped more in response, but hey.

&gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Please note
&gt; &gt; that I now understand your position regarding the original subject:
&gt;
&gt; At last. Thank you.
&gt;
&gt; &gt; I hope you can see that if you
&gt; &gt; had any comprehension that what you wrote could read like piss-taking then
&gt; &gt; posting it in the middle of an already fraught thread wasn't particularly
&gt; &gt; fair on someone who is trying to explain her side of what happened.
&gt; &gt; Especially after it had been pointed out (perhaps insufficiently
&gt; &gt; directly?) once already.
&gt;
&gt; In the interests of amity, I am tempted to suggest that we both plead that
&gt; combining an all-night hacking run with an all-day-all-night afp
&gt; monsterthread isn't the best way to win friends and influence people.
&gt;

One out of two ain't bad?

&gt; &gt; So to recap: the point of witch-hunts isn't to hunt down people, it's to
&gt; &gt; hunt down witches, those who practice witchcraft.
&gt;
&gt; So to recap: the point of metaphors is that they are colourful; they enliven
&gt; an explanation or description, without anyone needing to take them
&gt; literally.
&gt;

And the point of extending metaphors is to show that there may be (and
thankfully there wasn't) more in common than initially expected. I managed
a rather spectacular example regarding the term &quot;B&amp;D language&quot; in an
article I wrote about type hackery in Haskell... (and I'll be entirely
unsurprised if it gets picked up by a lot of filter software as a result)

&gt; &gt; It didn't help that some of the phrasing you used to discuss those
&gt; &gt; playing in [the gutter, presumably] bore a strong resemblance
&gt; &gt; to wording used by parents and pseudo-parental figures
&gt;
&gt; Since I /am/ a parent, and since I spend way too much time in IRC in a
&gt; &quot;pseudo-parental&quot; (actually, teaching) role, I guess that's inevitable,
&gt; although by no means intentional.
&gt;

It might be worth watching out for though, especially when it's pointed
out (the headmaster thing). Next time I choose the word 'patronising',
too.

It's been a few weeks since I really taught anything much over IRC. At the
moment I'm finding it something of a relief.

&gt; &gt; Unfortunately it's not overly
&gt; &gt; surprising that it thus caught several of us who you didn't intend it to.
&gt;
&gt; I think &quot;unfortunate&quot; covers a multitude of articles posted in this thread.
&gt; I'm not overly good at ASCII art, but here's an attempt at an olive branch:
&gt;
&gt; \ \
&gt; \ o \
&gt; \ l \
&gt; \ i \
&gt; \ v \
&gt; \ e \ / /
&gt; \ \/ /
&gt; \ /
&gt; \ /
&gt; | |
&gt; | |
&gt;
&gt; Well, I did warn you...
&gt;

On the bright side, at least I read my mail in a monospace font :-)

Now I need to figure out if I'm going to bed now or in 12-14 hours'
time...

--
<a href="mailto:flippa&#64;flippac.org" target="_blank">flippa&#64;flippac.org</a>

There is no magic bullet. There are, however, plenty of bullets that
magically home in on feet when not used in exactly the right circumstances.

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#536: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 09:02:08 by Hendrik Schober

Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; Hendrik Schober said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; I am sure all of us were checked whether we can read.
&gt; &gt; Several times.
&gt;
&gt; Really.

Do you want us to post our reports?

Schobi

--
<a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a> is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

&quot;The sarcasm is mightier than the sword.&quot;
Eric Jarvis

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#537: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a

Posted on 2006-06-02 09:03:39 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:3rOdnb6tX5TBiOLZRVnysA&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">3rOdnb6tX5TBiOLZRVnysA&#64;bt.com</a>, Richard Heathfield at
<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 9:28 AM:

&gt; Hendrik Schober said:

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt;If many people in the past have expressed a desire for an afp
&gt; which you wouldn't be embarrassed to invite your mother to,

Once again: Speaking as an afper's mother, I'm not at all embarrassed, and
nor is my son.

&gt;then it's not
&gt; unreasonable to at least consider the idea that such a group might be worth
&gt; setting up.

So set one up. I don't know offhand the procedure for starting a new NG from
scratch, but the information is easily found.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
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changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#538: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 09:08:26 by Diane L

Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; Lesley Weston said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; in article <a href="mailto:tMudnRjIL5DQtuLZRVnyjA&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">tMudnRjIL5DQtuLZRVnyjA&#64;bt.com</a>, Richard Heathfield at
&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 11:01 AM:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I and others discuss gender, BDSM, sexuality, sex, and other
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; matters. Do you object to this?
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Mu.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Chicken.
&gt;
&gt; The question is constructed in much the same way as &quot;Have you stopped
&gt; cheating on your partner?&quot; It is not 'chicken' to refuse to answer
&gt; such a question.

I really don't see how you can say this. *You* objected to something
in the tone or content of the newsgroup. Is it too much to ask that
*you* are more specific about what that something is?

&gt; It is merely good sense.

It does not look that way from where I'm sitting. Quite the reverse,
in fact.

Diane L.

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#539: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a

Posted on 2006-06-02 09:22:25 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:MPG.1ee9425be7de692e989ca5&#64;news.individual.net" target="_blank">MPG.1ee9425be7de692e989ca5&#64;news.individual.net</a>, Alec Cawley at
<a href="mailto:alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk" target="_blank">alec&#64;spamspam.co.uk</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 11:29 AM:

&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:tMmdnQVZBeGgg-LZRVny2A&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">tMmdnQVZBeGgg-LZRVny2A&#64;bt.com</a>&gt;, <a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>
&gt; says...
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Yeah, I know - but I'm not talking about moderation (a la censorship). I'm
&gt;&gt; talking about culture change, so that people are free to discuss
&gt;&gt; Pratchettesque matters without being drenched by neighbours constantly
&gt;&gt; hurling themselves into the gutter. And you may be right about afp not
&gt;&gt; being the place for that; perhaps there are insufficiently many people who
&gt;&gt; are capable of holding a conversation without having a security gutter
&gt;&gt; within easy reach. I hope and believe that's false, but I could be wrong.
&gt;
&gt; I would find such an implicit restriction a serious constraint on my
&gt; posting habits, and it would probably lead me to drop the group. I do
&gt; not often post on sexual, scatological etc. subjects, but I do not want
&gt; to have to think twice before every posting before I hit the send
&gt; button. I like this bean an adult newsgroup int hat everybody is assumed
&gt; to be old enough to decide whether the newsgroup's standard of posting
&gt; is acceptable to them and to unsubscribe if not.

Yes, indeed.

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; I was very happy to let my son, aged 10-11, read Pratchett's &quot;adult&quot;
&gt; books. I reckon that if he understood the adult themes, it was about
&gt; time he did, and if he didn't, it was about thie he did. IMO, the adult
&gt; themes are dealt with in a very ethical way, and it is the ethics rather
&gt; than the mechanics that worry me.
&gt;
&gt; I know that when I read Mary Renault's &quot;The Bull From The Sea&quot; at that
&gt; age, the adult content went right over my head. I didn't know why
&gt; Theasus wanted to visit Ariadne in the middle of the night; it was just
&gt; one of those wierd things adults do. But it made the story move on, so I
&gt; enjoyed the telling of the tale.

Exactly. Those of us who were precocious readers (quite a few of us, I
think) must have read a great deal of stuff that Richard would consider
unsuitable, but if we didn't already have the background knowledge, we
simply didn't understand the &quot;unsuitable&quot; bits. Similarly, I read the whole
Narnia series when I was in single figures, and it wasn't until someone
pointed it out when I was in my late teens that I realised that they are
about Christianity. I still think they're rattling good yarns and
beautifully written; I enjoyed them just as much when I was reading them to
my children who were then too young to be reading anything much, and so did
they. None of the three of us has been converted to Christianity by them, so
I don't think they did us any harm.

I didn't read them any pornography; partly because we don't have any (it
doesn't interest either of us) and partly because it wouldn't have
interested them either. I have no idea what they read now that they are
adults, apart from the Pratchett books that they nick from me.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
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#540: Re: [M] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case a

Posted on 2006-06-02 09:28:22 by Lesley Weston

in article OLGfg.7747$<a href="mailto:921.3663&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">921.3663&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>, Anastasia
at <a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 11:56 AM:

&gt; Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt; Anastasia said:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; No, I did not plonk you. I killfiled you
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Sorry, I thought you knew what &quot;plonk&quot; means. My apologies. It is
&gt;&gt; not a common word, after all (except on Usenet).
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; See <a href="http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/P/plonk.html" target="_blank">http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/P/plonk.html</a> for further
&gt;&gt; information.
&gt;
&gt; Excuse me, but I am using the definition we've discussed here. There was
&gt; quite a lot of plonking lately, and according to another definition, a quiet
&gt; killfiling is a gentle way to do it, and
&gt;
&gt; PLONK
&gt;
&gt; is a public humiliation.
&gt;
&gt; So I argue that I know what plonk means at least as much as you do. We may
&gt; be using different definitions, but I challenge you to prove that yours is
&gt; held by more people than mine.
&gt;
Count one here for Anastasia's definition.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
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#541: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-02 09:56:10 by jester

On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 01:45:30 GMT, peachy ashie passion
&lt;<a href="mailto:exquisitepeach&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">exquisitepeach&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; I COME here for the random chatter and innuendo. It loses its fun
&gt;when there's always someone griping about the play, and I'm best off
&gt;being places where that doesn't happen.

This just emphasises the importance of a healthy filtering system.

&gt;
&gt; Stacie insisted I come read today, but I think I'll be gone again soon.

Shame.

&gt;
&gt; One of the real points of this thread has been, AFP has to decide
&gt;again what sort of group it wants to be. Whatever the answer is,
&gt;someone won't be happy and someone will. But that's the nature of life,
&gt;I think.

Well, even with the occasional monster thread that needs a good mouthful
of garlic and nailing to the floor with a sharpened fencepost through its
chest, I like afp just the way it is.
And anybody who comes along and thinks we should change for the sake of
the children can just go forth and multiply.

--
Andy Brown
In 1665 Issac Newton became discouraged when he fell up a flight of
stairs.

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#542: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 09:59:37 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:1149144957.986596.182460&#64;g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1149144957.986596.182460&#64;g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com</a>,
<a href="mailto:elzystar&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">elzystar&#64;hotmail.com</a> at <a href="mailto:elzystar&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">elzystar&#64;hotmail.com</a> wrote on 31/05/2006 11:55 PM:

&gt; treesy wrote:
&gt;&gt; treesy a écrit :
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Why, because I recently attempted to log on to afp from school, only to
&gt;&gt;&gt; find that it had been blocked as an &quot;adult-sex group&quot;. This, naturally,
&gt;&gt;&gt; has caused much confusion on my part, as I'd been following afp from
&gt;&gt;&gt; school for over a year before this.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I will conclude my two sections now with hello, and Aaargh.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; As an update, my situation has been resolved. While they blocked afp on
&gt;&gt; groups.google.com, they failed to block it on groups.google.fr so I'm
&gt;&gt; in the clear.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; thanks for the warm welcome, and I hope I got the tag right.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; treesy.
&gt;
&gt; Hey - I'm also new, and Aussie. You may all call me Mousie. ^___^

Welcome, Mousie! Better stay away from the cat, but the alligator has
apparently been eaten and there may still be some chocolate left.
&gt;
&gt; I had a lot of trouble with the censors at school last year, they had a
&gt; thing against hotmail and msn... they also blocked Google Images, and
&gt; probably Google Groups. Like you, we got around this by accessing
&gt; international sites... they do catch up eventually, and realise what
&gt; you're doing. Then it's just a matter of finding another hole in the
&gt; net. :)
&gt;
&gt; Let's face it - school censors suck. Ours used to block the local
&gt; counsil website on account of: 'gay porn'. Now, I've been on that site
&gt; before... and it sure wasn't that exciting....

I expect you've read by now the thread that Treesie's post started.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.

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#543: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 10:06:02 by Lesley Weston

in article <a href="mailto:p8udnZSd1I-NMuPZRVnyqQ&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">p8udnZSd1I-NMuPZRVnyqQ&#64;bt.com</a>, Richard Heathfield at
<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 2:11 AM:

&gt; Lesley Weston said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I believe you've said that your oldest is fifteen, and your others not too
&gt;&gt; far behind?
&gt;
&gt; Sure.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Some afpers are not much older than that. Do you also choose
&gt;&gt; the books that your children are allowed to read?
&gt;
&gt; No, they're bright enough to choose good books. But it would be
&gt; irresponsible of me to allow them unrestricted Internet/Usenet access, not
&gt; because they would seek out unsuitable material, but because it's amazing
&gt; what you can stumble across by accident. (A friend of mine recently tried
&gt; to buy a plane ticket online, with his smiling happy wife looking on, and
&gt; made the mistake of guessing the URL. He got most of it right, but typed
&gt; .com instead of .co.uk and ended up at a site where various seamstresses
&gt; advertised their wares. Oops.)

That's odd! I am the world's worst typist - I use two fingers and do some
very careful proof-reading - but I can't think of any occasion when I've
typed in a porn site URL, by mistake or otherwise. If I had, indeed if my
husband had, I would have been laughing too hard to be unhappy about it. If
your children can be trusted not to read books of which you disapprove,
surely they can be trusted not to visit web-sites and newsgroups that you
don't allow?

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
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#544: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 10:13:14 by treesy2

<a href="mailto:elzystar&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">elzystar&#64;hotmail.com</a> wrote:
&gt; treesy wrote:
&gt; &gt; treesy a =E9crit :.
&gt;
&gt; Hey - I'm also new, and Aussie. You may all call me Mousie. ^___^
&gt;
&gt; I had a lot of trouble with the censors at school last year, they had a
&gt; thing against hotmail and msn... they also blocked Google Images, and
&gt; probably Google Groups. Like you, we got around this by accessing
&gt; international sites... they do catch up eventually, and realise what
&gt; you're doing. Then it's just a matter of finding another hole in the
&gt; net. :)
&gt;
&gt; Let's face it - school censors suck. Ours used to block the local
&gt; counsil website on account of: 'gay porn'. Now, I've been on that site
&gt; before... and it sure wasn't that exciting....
&gt;
&gt; Is there a Death of Censors? If not, there bloody well should be!
&gt;
&gt; Cheers!
&gt; ~ Mousie

Hi Mousie, chocolate, chair, cat. The alligator's still in the oven,
but if you'll wait a bit....

Isn't it interesting how threads run away on you (sighs).

treesy.

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#545: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 10:17:42 by Diane L

Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; Philippa Cowderoy said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Anastasia said:

&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Literalness isn't an answer.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Yes, it is. In fact, sometimes it's the only answer.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; It isn't one here. Whether you intend it or not, you're maintaining a
&gt;&gt; duality of position here: you're succeeding in arguing against
&gt;&gt; specific people here's posts
&gt;
&gt; Whoa, I rock. I can win arguments without even being in them. I am
&gt; *not* arguing against the posts of specific people here.

Well, I for one am not at all clear what you *are* arguing against. I'm
also not sure what you're arguing *for*. I think you're arguing *about*
the fact that you do not feel that this newsgroup is a suitable place for
children. I'd like to make a point. I agree that this is not a suitable
environment for unsupervised children. I think this is a good thing.

Diane L.

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#546: Re: [M] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-02 10:21:22 by Orjan Westin

Lesley Weston wrote:
&gt; in article <a href="mailto:MPG.1ee8a432117077f2989c4f&#64;cenote.gkhs.net" target="_blank">MPG.1ee8a432117077f2989c4f&#64;cenote.gkhs.net</a>, Eric Jarvis at
&gt; <a href="mailto:usenet&#64;ericjarvis.co.uk" target="_blank">usenet&#64;ericjarvis.co.uk</a> wrote on 01/06/2006 12:14 AM:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Lesley Weston <a href="mailto:brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk</a> wrote in
&gt;&gt; &lt;C0A39B9F.486C5%<a href="mailto:brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">brightly_coloured_blob&#64;yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt;:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; If it isn't funny, it isn't flirting.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Personally I concur, however I'm pretty sure that it isn't something
&gt;&gt; universally agreed on.
&gt;
&gt; No? I can't think of any examples, here or in RL, where flirting
&gt; wasn't at least intended to be funny. Maybe others can?

Um... Flirting is, at least according to my observations in Real Life,
often intended to get the flirter laid. It is also used as a way of
belittling people - this is called sexual harassment.

Orjan
--
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
Fiction, Thoughts and Software
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#547: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 10:23:33 by Orjan Westin

Richard Heathfield wrote:
&gt; Lesley Weston said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; If people don't like innuendo or any other aspect
&gt;&gt; of some posts, they can also choose not to read those posts or even
&gt;&gt; those threads, without depriving those who do enjoy it of their
&gt;&gt; harmless pleasure.
&gt;
&gt; How do you tell which posts not to read?
&gt;
&gt;&gt; It's not as if there were no other threads on afp; there are
&gt;&gt; quite a few that have nothing to do with sex. Some of these were
&gt;&gt; started by Anastasia, who I suspect is right in her belief that she
&gt;&gt; is one of the objects of Richard's attack.
&gt;
&gt; I'm not attacking *anyone*. How many times, FCOL?!?!?!?!?!?

a) 42

b) ... before you can call him a man?

c) Not long ago, I gave you as an example of how people's perceptions of
a poster affect the way people read their posts. I wish I had been more
explicit and explained it in greater detail.

Orjan
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#548: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-02 10:26:56 by Eric Jarvis

Anastasia <a href="mailto:house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">house_damodred&#64;yahoo.com</a> wrote in
&lt;w1Nfg.7896$<a href="mailto:921.5546&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">921.5546&#64;newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;:
&gt; Eric Jarvis wrote:
&gt; &gt; CCA <a href="mailto:sphira9343&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">sphira9343&#64;aol.com</a> wrote in
&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:1149180343.328661.232100&#64;g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1149180343.328661.232100&#64;g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;:
&gt; &gt;&gt; René wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; [Stacie/Anastasia]
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Nah, it's more like &quot;but she's the only one easily IDable as
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; actual female, and kinda cute&quot;. Not that there is anything wrong
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; with that :D
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Plenty of cute females around here, and on #afp too.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; I think that very much depends on how one defines &quot;cute&quot;. If you
&gt; &gt; include the range from oddly attractive to stunningly beautiful,
&gt; &gt; then yes. If you define it as pretty in a non threatening way then
&gt; &gt; no.
&gt;
&gt; Without naming names, could you define &quot;oddly attractive&quot;? I really want to
&gt; know what that means.
&gt;
&gt; I'm totally serious!
&gt;

I mean the kind of attractive that is clearly down to looks but which
can't be pinned down to anything specific. Somebody who isn't actually
beautiful, but who has the same effect as if they were. Famous examples
would be Bjork and Whoopi Goldberg.

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
&quot;live fast, die only if strictly necessary&quot;

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#549: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 10:31:47 by Eric Jarvis

treesy <a href="mailto:treesy2&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">treesy2&#64;hotmail.com</a> wrote in
&lt;<a href="mailto:1149223591.850581.33860&#64;g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1149223591.850581.33860&#64;g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;:
&gt;
&gt; At this point I'd like to express how sorry I am for unleashing this
&gt; thread on the general AFPopulace, and remind people that sometimes
&gt; sitting on chairs is better than picking them up and throwing them at
&gt; your people. The same I imagine applies to alligators, although,
&gt; picking up an alligator is only the start of your troubles (and I don't
&gt; reccomend sitting on them either)....
&gt;

I like this one. Can we keep him?

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
&quot;live fast, die only if strictly necessary&quot;

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#550: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 10:33:47 by Peter Ellis

Diane L wrote:
&gt;
&gt; My problem is, I can't find him actually saying anywhere exactly
&gt; what it is that he finds so objectionable. I know there are things
&gt; here that he wouldn't want a dog subjected to, and that he
&gt; wouldn't want his mother to read, but I'm still not clear what
&gt; they are or were other than they involve &quot;adult&quot; content (with
&gt; quotation marks).
&gt;
&gt; If he's objecting to the 'flirting' spreading into lots of threads,
&gt; that's fair enough.

Well, that's something that's fair to object to - it's now been objected to
and has stopped. Done and dusted, now let's all relax. It's not the
impression I got from Richard's complaints, however I shall give Richard the
benefit of the doubt and assume that's what he meant.

&lt;makes mental note never to talk about belly buttons in front of Richard's
dog&gt;

You see - that's the problem. While repetitive flirting is of course
annoying, I would be very *very* surprised to find many people here who
think it's something children, mothers and dogs need to be protected from.
That's why everyone's confused as to what Richard's really complaining
about, and justifiably suspicious when he refuses to say what it is he finds
too &quot;adult&quot; for his children, mother and dog.

Peter

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#551: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 10:38:37 by Eric Jarvis

Richard Heathfield <a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a> wrote in
&lt;<a href="mailto:G56dnQQUF7MbWOLZRVny1A&#64;bt.com" target="_blank">G56dnQQUF7MbWOLZRVny1A&#64;bt.com</a>&gt;:
&gt; Lesley Weston said:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; If people don't like innuendo or any other aspect
&gt; &gt; of some posts, they can also choose not to read those posts or even those
&gt; &gt; threads, without depriving those who do enjoy it of their harmless
&gt; &gt; pleasure.
&gt;
&gt; How do you tell which posts not to read?
&gt;

Unless I'm particularly interested in the topic I skip anything that looks
at first sight as if the quoted text hasn't been trimmed. Likewise for any
subthread that appears to only involve two posters. If I'm in a hurry I
only read posts by people I expect to enjoy posts by. I also generally
have a few people killfiled so that I can go back and read what they
posted if it becomes an interesting subthread, but otherwise I can avoid
wasting time on reading something that won't add anything to my life.
Likewise I'm fairly liberal with the ignore thread option. In general I
work on the basis that there is no need to read every post.

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
&quot;live fast, die only if strictly necessary&quot;

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#552: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 10:42:48 by Eric Jarvis

Hendrik Schober <a href="mailto:SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de" target="_blank">SpamTrap&#64;gmx.de</a> wrote in
&lt;447feae6$1$11064$<a href="mailto:9b4e6d93&#64;newsread4.arcor-online.net" target="_blank">9b4e6d93&#64;newsread4.arcor-online.net</a>&gt;:
&gt; Richard Heathfield &lt;<a href="mailto:invalid&#64;invalid.invalid" target="_blank">invalid&#64;invalid.invalid</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt; Hendrik Schober said:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; I am sure all of us were checked whether we can read.
&gt; &gt; &gt; Several times.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Really.
&gt;
&gt; Do you want us to post our reports?
&gt;

Preferably not. My grades in English were awful.

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
&quot;live fast, die only if strictly necessary&quot;

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#553: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 11:06:32 by Orjan Westin

Eric Jarvis wrote:
&gt; treesy <a href="mailto:treesy2&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">treesy2&#64;hotmail.com</a> wrote in
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:1149223591.850581.33860&#64;g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1149223591.850581.33860&#64;g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; At this point I'd like to express how sorry I am for unleashing this
&gt;&gt; thread on the general AFPopulace, and remind people that sometimes
&gt;&gt; sitting on chairs is better than picking them up and throwing them at
&gt;&gt; your people. The same I imagine applies to alligators, although,
&gt;&gt; picking up an alligator is only the start of your troubles (and I
&gt;&gt; don't reccomend sitting on them either)....
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I like this one. Can we keep him?

Very well, but you'll be responsible for giving him exercise, and
feeding him. And if you lose him, I'll not buy you a new one. You'll
have to save up for it yourself.

Orjan
--
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
<a href="http://tale.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://tale.cunobaros.com/</a>
Fiction, Thoughts and Software
<a href="http://www.cunobaros.com/" target="_blank">http://www.cunobaros.com/</a>

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#554: Re: [I] Wouldn't it be keen if afp censored itself just in case akid saw us?

Posted on 2006-06-02 11:21:01 by Torak

René wrote:
&gt; On 2006-06-01 18:49:09 -0500, Torak &lt;<a href="mailto:perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">perry_awm&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; said:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I listened to the Potter audio books, thought I'd enjoy them, what
&gt;&gt; with Stephen Fry being good and all, but I couldn't stand the voices
&gt;&gt; he inflicted on the characters. Three chapters, then back went the tapes.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I've only listened to one audio book so far, the current one by
&gt; Preston/Child, whatever the title was. René Auberjoinaise (or however
&gt; his name is spelled) did a great job of doing the voice, even though he
&gt; over-did the Italian cop a bit. Incidentally, he also played the
&gt; changeling in one of the Star Trek series.

Auberjonois.

And yeah, he's one of those actors who can almost always save a film.
Except the live-action Inspector Gadget, but that was pretty much beyond
saving.

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#555: Re: semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 11:26:28 by Torak

naomi wrote:
&gt; Torak wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Lesley Weston wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I believe you've said that your oldest is fifteen, and your others
&gt;&gt;&gt; not too
&gt;&gt;&gt; far behind? Some afpers are not much older than that. Do you also
&gt;&gt;&gt; choose the
&gt;&gt;&gt; books that your children are allowed to read? An ex-colleague of mine
&gt;&gt;&gt; told
&gt;&gt;&gt; me once, very distressed, that he had been going through his teenage
&gt;&gt;&gt; son's
&gt;&gt;&gt; things &quot;as one does&quot;, and to his horror had found amongst the young
&gt;&gt;&gt; man's
&gt;&gt;&gt; shirts some letters from a girl; on reading them, he was further
&gt;&gt;&gt; horrified
&gt;&gt;&gt; by their content. He had, of course, Spoken Harshly to his son and
&gt;&gt;&gt; the boy
&gt;&gt;&gt; was now suitably penitent, but he couldn't get over the way that his
&gt;&gt;&gt; son had
&gt;&gt;&gt; betrayed him, and was also worried about the depraved path his son had
&gt;&gt;&gt; chosen to follow, however briefly.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I like the guy (there's more to someone's personality than their
&gt;&gt;&gt; ideas
&gt;&gt;&gt; on child-rearing) and I knew I was going to have to continue working
&gt;&gt;&gt; with
&gt;&gt;&gt; him for years to come, so I did manage to stay civil - but it was
&gt;&gt;&gt; difficult.
&gt;&gt;&gt; It seems to me that it was the son's fundamental rights as a human
&gt;&gt;&gt; that had
&gt;&gt;&gt; been betrayed in several important ways, not the father's trust in
&gt;&gt;&gt; his son.
&gt;&gt;&gt; One part of those rights is his right to choose his own reading
&gt;&gt;&gt; material,
&gt;&gt;&gt; friends, lifestyle and pastimes.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; This is why I like my parents. All right, so Dad gets a bit panicky,
&gt;&gt; but only really pokes his nose into my finances (and only because I
&gt;&gt; asked him to take care of them while I'm abroad), and Mamma stays well
&gt;&gt; away from anything that's not in plain sight. Even when tidying,
&gt;&gt; she'll ask me if there's anything I don't want her looking at - and if
&gt;&gt; there was I reckon it'd be pretty safe from both of them.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Which is nice.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I have not yet forgiven my mother for opening and reading private mail
&gt; addressed to me. She said she did it to see if the young man who lived
&gt; 150 km away who was writing me letters each week was more than my
&gt; friend. I'm still hurt because she could have *asked me*. My parents
&gt; where very strict and I feel I was an honest and obedient teenager. MY
&gt; falling in love with the young man ( whom I married 4 years later) was
&gt; the only thing I ever did which could remotely be considered rebellious.
&gt;
&gt; I felt betrayed and my trust in her was violated because if asked I
&gt; would have told the truth. I was in love although at that stage all that
&gt; was happening was letter writing.

I know what you mean, in a sense. My Dad has a habit of talking more
than he should, though accidentally rather than through malice. Tell him
something private, and he's likely to end up mentioning it some time
when he's talking to a complete stranger or chatting to his mates at the
club or something. He doesn't mean any harm by it, and I don't even
think he realises he does it, but it does make you very careful what you
tell him....

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#556: Re: [I] Afp content

Posted on 2006-06-02 11:29:21 by Torak

jester wrote:
&gt; On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 01:45:30 GMT, peachy ashie passion
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Stacie insisted I come read today, but I think I'll be gone again soon.
&gt;
&gt; Shame.

Agreed. Peachy's posts tend to be fun to read.

&gt;&gt; One of the real points of this thread has been, AFP has to decide
&gt;&gt;again what sort of group it wants to be. Whatever the answer is,
&gt;&gt;someone won't be happy and someone will. But that's the nature of life,
&gt;&gt;I think.
&gt;
&gt; Well, even with the occasional monster thread that needs a good mouthful
&gt; of garlic and nailing to the floor with a sharpened fencepost through its
&gt; chest, I like afp just the way it is.
&gt; And anybody who comes along and thinks we should change for the sake of
&gt; the children can just go forth and multiply.

Very well put. I like the fencepost especially.

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#557: Re: [I] semi- (R) Introduction and general rant.

Posted on 2006-06-02 11:29:30 by David Chapman

From the Collecte