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Fantasy » alt.fan.tolkien » OT: Wrapping up a Waar of Words with Ty: Kinslayers' Curse
| OT: Wrapping up a Waar of Words with Ty: Kinslayers' Curse [message #82720] |
Sa, 16 Juli 2005 16:47 |
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Well, Ty, I suppose I'd better wrap things up for you. I don't really like
wasting time on people like you any more - I suppose I've matured a little
since the days I made a commitment to getting the NZ government to rectify
some of the outstanding grievances of the New Zealand Maori such a
priority. It's in their hands now; I suppose I've grown tired of seeing
something age that I put a lot of effort into in the late eighties.
I put effort into it because it struck me that it was a major constitutional
issue - does the government at any stage in its existence, have the right
to make decisions for people without consulting them? Does it have the
right to sequester their property and declare them rebels, without due
process, where all the facts can be seen and acted upon? Etc.
I succeeded, but it's hardly something I can boast about. I wasn't the only
one doing it.
About Native Americans, the Final Solution, and Hitler's respect for the
United States of American and its policy towards Native Americans - a
little book I've got called "Image and Reality of the Israel-Palestine
Conflict" by Norman G. Finkelstein, contains a chapter called "Settlement,
Not Conquest: Anita Shapira's 'Benign Intentions' Myth", pp, 88-120.
And I quote: "Hitler's biographers report that the Nazi
leader's /Lebensraum/ policy was inspired by the conquest of North America.
According to John Toland, Hitler 'often praised to his inner circle the
efficiency of America's extermination - by starvation and uneven combat -
of the red savages who could not be tamed by captivity'. Joachim Fest
observes that Hitler's 'continental war of conquest' was modeled 'with
explicit reference to the United States'. Thus, gearing up for war in the
East, Hitler declared that 'there's only one duty: to Germanise this
country by immigration of Germans and to look upon the natives as
Redskins.' Faced with unexpected resistance, he compared 'the struggle we
are waging there against the Partisans' to 'the struggle in North America
against the Red Indians'. pg 92.
Apparently Adolf Hitler didn't share your views on the dissimilarity of the
extermination of the jews and the extermination of the Native Americans.
Inquiring minds wish to know why.
Notes to Pages 90-93
13. For the Native American precedent in Hitler's /Lebensraum/ policy, cf.
John Toland, /Adolf Hitler/, New York 1976, p. 702; Joachim Fest, /Hitler/,
New York 1975, pp. 214, 650; H.R Trevor-Roper (ed.), /Hitler's Secret
Conversations, 1941-1944/, New York 1953, pp. 57, 257, 504, 574; cf. also
Richard Rubenstein, 'Genocide and Civilization', in Isidor Walliman and
Michael N. Dobrowski (eds), /Genocide and the Modern Age/, Westport 1987,
p. 288. [...]
15. /Secret Book/, pp.15-16; cf. /Mein Kampf/, pp. 652-4. Theodor
Roosevelt, /The Winning of the West/, New York 1889, vol. iv, p. 200. For
the relevant passages in Nietzsche, cf. esp. /On the Genealogy of Morals/,
essay I ('Good and Evil', 'Good and Bad'), section II. One of Hitler's
private wartime musings almost exactly echoed Roosevelt:
"If anyone asks us where we obtain the right to extend the Germanic space to
the East, we reply that, for a nation, her awareness of what she represents
carries this right with it. ... It's inconceivable that a higher people
should painfully exist on a soil too narrow for it, while amorphous masses,
which contribute nothing to civilization, occupy infinte tracts of a soil
that is one of the richest in the world." (/Secret Conversations/, pg. 32;
cf. p. 214)
On the American side, cf. Andrew Jackson's speech cited in note II above:
"Humanity has often wept over the fate of the aborigines of this country,
and Philanthropy has been long busily employed in devising means to avert
it. ... But true philanthropy reconciles the mind to these vicissitudes as
it does to the extinction of one generation to make room for another. ...
Nor is there anything in this which, upon a comprehensive view of the
general interests of the human race, is to be regretted."
Now, Ty, you've already indicated that you share Andrew Jackson's view of
the fate of the Native Americans, in spite of having some Native American
family yourself. Let's get this on a Tolkienian framework, shall we? What
was Feanaro's deed that provoked Mandos' Curse on the Noldorian Exiles?
That's the same curse you've invoked upon yourself.
As for the idea that anti-Semitism is uniquely evil - I can't see that at
all. Americans never regarded the Nuremberg Laws as evil, because they had
laws equally as racist in the good ol' US of A. It was when the Black
American soldiers came home, they found that what they'd been asked to
fight against, was standard fare downtown US.
As for the idea that Arabs are inherently anti-Semitic, which is your
opinion down to a T; all I can say is if that had been so during the last
six hundred years, there wouldn't have been a Jew left alive in the Arab
world. If the Arabs had committed the sorts of atrocities that the
"enlightened" Christian Europe routinely did ... It's only been in the
last fifty years that anti-Semitism has been seen as a crime in the West.
You're guilty of the same sort of slander that Jews were exposed to for most
of the time they lived in Europe - except since you're slandering the
Muslims, you're feeling virtuous, since everybody else you know is
slandering them as well.
In consequence, I have to conclude you have the spine of a jellyfish, a
Portuguese Man o'War at that.
Correspondence complete. Over. Finis est.
Wesley Parish
--
"Good, late in to more rewarding well." "Well, you tonight. And I was
lookintelligent woman of Ming home. I trust you with a tender silence." I
get a word into my hands, a different and unbelike, probably - 'she
fortunate fat woman', wrong word. I think to me, I justupid.
Let not emacs meta-X dissociate-press write your romantic dialogs...!!!
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