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Fantasy » alt.fan.tolkien » Re: For our UK friends
| Re: For our UK friends [message #76464] |
Do, 07 Juli 2005 20:35 |
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"aelfwina" <aelfwina [at] cableone.net> skrev i en meddelelse
news:11cqg12ighjj918 [at] corp.supernews.com...
> I was shocked to hear the news. Please know you have my thoughts and
> prayers, and if possible, let us all know if you are okay?
Yes, the walking abortions strike again.
Jon Lennart Beck.
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| Re: For our UK friends [message #76474 ] |
Do, 07 Juli 2005 23:56 |
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In article <mDeze.119$oX2.102 [at] news.get2net.dk>,
jonlennart.beck.god [at] damn.get2net.that.dk.spam says...
> "aelfwina" <aelfwina [at] cableone.net> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:11cqg12ighjj918 [at] corp.supernews.com...
>
> > I was shocked to hear the news. Please know you have my thoughts and
> > prayers, and if possible, let us all know if you are okay?
>
> Yes, the walking abortions strike again.
>
I'm a long way from the appalling carnage in London, but I was moved and
impressed by the eloquence of Ken Livingston, the Mayor of London:
"This was not a terrorist attack against the mighty and the powerful. It
was not aimed at Presidents or Prime Ministers. It was aimed at
ordinary, working-class Londoners, black and white, Muslim and
Christian, Hindu and Jew, young and old. It was an indiscriminate
attempt to slaughter, irrespective of any considerations for age, for
class, for religion, or whatever...
"In the days that follow...even after your cowardly attack, you will see
that people from the rest of Britain, people from around the world will
arrive in London to become Londoners and to fulfil their dreams and
achieve their potential.
"They choose to come to London, as so many have come before because they
come to be free, they come to live the life they choose, they come to be
able to be themselves. They flee you because you tell them how they
should live. They don't want that and nothing you do, however many of us
you kill, will stop that flight to our city where freedom is strong and
where people can live in harmony with one another. Whatever you do,
however many you kill, you will fail."
<http://www.london.gov.uk/mayor/mayor_statement_070705.jsp>
--
Pete Gray
Say No to ID Cards <http://www.no2id.net>
<http://www.redbadge.co.uk/no2idcards/>
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| Re: For our UK friends [message #76475 ] |
Fr, 08 Juli 2005 00:03 |
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Raven wrote:
>aelfwina" <aelfw... [at] cableone.net> skrev i en meddelelse
news:11cqg12ighjj918 [at] corp.supernews.com...
>> I was shocked to hear the news. Please know you have my thoughts and pr=
ayers, and if possible, let us all know if you are okay?
>Yes, the walking abortions strike again.
Horrible. Unspeakable. My deepest condolences as well.
=D6jevind
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| Re: For our UK friends [message #76476 ] |
Fr, 08 Juli 2005 00:32 |
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Pete Gray <news [at] redbadge.co.uk> wrote:
>> "aelfwina" <aelfwina [at] cableone.net> skrev:
>>
>>> I was shocked to hear the news. Please know you have my thoughts
>>> and prayers, and if possible, let us all know if you are okay?
<snip>
> I'm a long way from the appalling carnage in London
I was quite a bit closer (I travel to work on London Underground, and
[along with thousands of others] have almost certainly travelled on some
of the tube trains that were blown up today), but I'm OK as well. Sadly,
others were not so lucky.
Christopher
--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard
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| Re: For our UK friends [message #76482 ] |
Fr, 08 Juli 2005 01:05 |
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Raven wrote:
> "aelfwina" <aelfwina [at] cableone.net> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:11cqg12ighjj918 [at] corp.supernews.com...
>
> > I was shocked to hear the news. Please know you have my thoughts and
> > prayers, and if possible, let us all know if you are okay?
Indeed - on my behalf of myself and my family my profound sympathy goes
out to all those involved.
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| Re: For our UK friends [message #76483 ] |
Fr, 08 Juli 2005 01:19 |
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In article <44ize.65311$G8.4790 [at] text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
spamgard [at] blueyonder.co.uk says...
> Pete Gray <news [at] redbadge.co.uk> wrote:
> >> "aelfwina" <aelfwina [at] cableone.net> skrev:
> >>
> >>> I was shocked to hear the news. Please know you have my thoughts
> >>> and prayers, and if possible, let us all know if you are okay?
>
> <snip>
>
> > I'm a long way from the appalling carnage in London
>
> I was quite a bit closer (I travel to work on London Underground, and
> [along with thousands of others] have almost certainly travelled on some
> of the tube trains that were blown up today), but I'm OK as well. Sadly,
> others were not so lucky.
>
Good to know you are OK.
Sympathy and well wishes to all effected.
--
Tar-Elenion
He is a warrior, and a spirit of wrath. In every
stroke that he deals he sees the Enemy who long
ago did thee this hurt.
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| Re: For our UK friends [message #76505 ] |
Fr, 08 Juli 2005 13:06 |
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"Pete Gray" <news [at] redbadge.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d37b5793c8c4b039896dd [at] news.zen.co.uk...
> I'm a long way from the appalling carnage in London, but I was moved and
> impressed by the eloquence of Ken Livingston, the Mayor of London:
> "This was not a terrorist attack against the mighty and the powerful. It
> was not aimed at Presidents or Prime Ministers. It was aimed at
> ordinary, working-class Londoners, black and white, Muslim and
> Christian, Hindu and Jew, young and old. It was an indiscriminate
> attempt to slaughter, irrespective of any considerations for age, for
> class, for religion, or whatever...
> "In the days that follow...even after your cowardly attack, you will see
> that people from the rest of Britain, people from around the world will
> arrive in London to become Londoners and to fulfil their dreams and
> achieve their potential.
> "They choose to come to London, as so many have come before because they
> come to be free, they come to live the life they choose, they come to be
> able to be themselves. They flee you because you tell them how they
> should live. They don't want that and nothing you do, however many of us
> you kill, will stop that flight to our city where freedom is strong and
> where people can live in harmony with one another. Whatever you do,
> however many you kill, you will fail."
> <http://www.london.gov.uk/mayor/mayor_statement_070705.jsp>
As an American, I want to offer my condolences to our British friends. I can
assure you that America is behind you and will back you up, just as you have
backed us up in the past.
However, I must comment on the outrageous hypocrisy of the insane Mr.
Livingstone.
Isn't this the same terrorist-coddler who once characterized the IRA as
"freedom fighters", rather than murderous savages?
Isn't he the same one who condemned the Israeli campaign against terrorists
as "genocide" and has not seen fit to condemn Palestinian terrorist attacks?
Or does Ken only consider it terrorism when non-Jews are murdered by
terrorists?
Didn't this kook also demand that the British press apologize to sheikh
Yusuf Al-Qaradawi for seeking to "blemish his reputation during his visit to
London" in July of 2004? The scumbag that Ken so adamantly defended is the
same fanatic who called for the murder of Americans in Iraq as a sacred
Islamic duty. He also claimed that Palestinian terrorist attacks against
Israeli civilians "...are not in any way included in the framework of
prohibited terrorism, even if the victims include some civilians." In a
sermon following the Al-Qa'ida attack in Bali on October 18, 2002, he
explained, "Islam does agree to such acts." *This* is the kind of swine that
Ken defends. Yet for some reason, he is shocked, *shocked*, that a terrorist
attack was carried out in his town. What a worthless, hypocritical twit.
A much more competent Englishman once said "all that is necessary for the
triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Or to justify the actions of
murderous savages, then pretend to be shocked when they commit savage
murders.
--Ty
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| Re: For our UK friends [message #76506 ] |
Fr, 08 Juli 2005 13:55 |
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Might I ask, with the US re-opening Abu Ghraib the instance they got ahold
of it - kinda like Tar Elessar i Telcontar (Aragorn) going into Mordor and
setting up Barad Dur as his base of operations, and rehiring Gorbag and
Shagrat - the Muslims _don't_ _have_ a right to be boiling with fury?
Are you suggesting that the Human Right of vengeance doesn't belong to Arabs
and Muslims - just because you say so? I thought you Americans believed in
the Rule of Law. Perhaps not - you seem to believe more in the "Golden
Rule" - "He who has the gold, rules".
There have been at least 100 000 Iraqi deaths confirmed as a result of the
US-UK collaboration in invading Iraq, and a proportional magnitude of
disablings and maimings. 32 deaths and a related proportion of injuries
from the London bombings - that's light! _And_ your President Bush has
called it a _WAR_ - _people_ _die_ _in_ _wars_ . Didn't you know?
But of course, they're Arab, they're Muslim, and you've already indicated
you don't see them as human. Lynch Law. US Federal Lynch Law. Jim Crow.
Snivelling self-pitying .... "The nasty brute dared hit me back! Stop him,
Mummy!"
Pull your head out of your arse, and try to regain your humanity!
Wesley Parish
Ty wrote:
> "Pete Gray" <news [at] redbadge.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1d37b5793c8c4b039896dd [at] news.zen.co.uk...
>
>> I'm a long way from the appalling carnage in London, but I was moved and
>> impressed by the eloquence of Ken Livingston, the Mayor of London:
>
>> "This was not a terrorist attack against the mighty and the powerful. It
>> was not aimed at Presidents or Prime Ministers. It was aimed at
>> ordinary, working-class Londoners, black and white, Muslim and
>> Christian, Hindu and Jew, young and old. It was an indiscriminate
>> attempt to slaughter, irrespective of any considerations for age, for
>> class, for religion, or whatever...
>
>> "In the days that follow...even after your cowardly attack, you will see
>> that people from the rest of Britain, people from around the world will
>> arrive in London to become Londoners and to fulfil their dreams and
>> achieve their potential.
>
>> "They choose to come to London, as so many have come before because they
>> come to be free, they come to live the life they choose, they come to be
>> able to be themselves. They flee you because you tell them how they
>> should live. They don't want that and nothing you do, however many of us
>> you kill, will stop that flight to our city where freedom is strong and
>> where people can live in harmony with one another. Whatever you do,
>> however many you kill, you will fail."
>
>> <http://www.london.gov.uk/mayor/mayor_statement_070705.jsp>
>
> As an American, I want to offer my condolences to our British friends. I
> can assure you that America is behind you and will back you up, just as
> you have backed us up in the past.
>
> However, I must comment on the outrageous hypocrisy of the insane Mr.
> Livingstone.
>
> Isn't this the same terrorist-coddler who once characterized the IRA as
> "freedom fighters", rather than murderous savages?
>
> Isn't he the same one who condemned the Israeli campaign against
> terrorists as "genocide" and has not seen fit to condemn Palestinian
> terrorist attacks? Or does Ken only consider it terrorism when non-Jews
> are murdered by terrorists?
>
> Didn't this kook also demand that the British press apologize to sheikh
> Yusuf Al-Qaradawi for seeking to "blemish his reputation during his visit
> to London" in July of 2004? The scumbag that Ken so adamantly defended is
> the same fanatic who called for the murder of Americans in Iraq as a
> sacred Islamic duty. He also claimed that Palestinian terrorist attacks
> against Israeli civilians "...are not in any way included in the framework
> of prohibited terrorism, even if the victims include some civilians." In a
> sermon following the Al-Qa'ida attack in Bali on October 18, 2002, he
> explained, "Islam does agree to such acts." *This* is the kind of swine
> that Ken defends. Yet for some reason, he is shocked, *shocked*, that a
> terrorist attack was carried out in his town. What a worthless,
> hypocritical twit.
>
> A much more competent Englishman once said "all that is necessary for the
> triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Or to justify the actions of
> murderous savages, then pretend to be shocked when they commit savage
> murders.
>
> --Ty
--
"Good, late in to more rewarding well."  "Well, you tonight.  And I was
lookintelligent woman of Ming home.  I trust you with a tender silence."  I
get a word into my hands, a different and unbelike, probably - 'she
fortunate fat woman', wrong word.  I think to me, I justupid.
Let not emacs meta-X dissociate-press write your romantic dialogs...!!!
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| Re: For our UK friends [message #76515 ] |
Fr, 08 Juli 2005 19:41 |
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Christopher Kreuzer (or somebody else of the same name) wrote thusly in
message <44ize.65311$G8.4790 [at] text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>:
> Pete Gray <news [at] redbadge.co.uk> wrote:
>>> "aelfwina" <aelfwina [at] cableone.net> skrev:
>>>
>>>> I was shocked to hear the news. Please know you have my thoughts
>>>> and prayers, and if possible, let us all know if you are okay?
>
> <snip>
>
>> I'm a long way from the appalling carnage in London
>
> I was quite a bit closer (I travel to work on London Underground, and
> [along with thousands of others] have almost certainly travelled on some
> of the tube trains that were blown up today), but I'm OK as well. Sadly,
> others were not so lucky.
>
> Christopher
Here in Cardiff, about 150 miles west of London, we have had our own
security alert which has closed the main rail and bus stations. No details
have been released of the nature of the alert.
As something of a railway enthusiast, I have tried to gradually "do" the
entire Tube network on my occasional visits to London, mostly by travelling
circuitous routes e.g. Paddington-Hammersmith via Rayners Lane. In this way
I have travelled most of the lines, with only a few extreme ends
(Piccadilly beyond Wood Green, Central from Woodford to Epping) still to
do. So I have definitely travelled through all the sites that are now
"tainted" in my mind.
One of our customers in central London phoned up today with a computer
problem, requiring us to send a service engineer there on Monday. I shall
be praying for a safe-conduct for him.
--
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
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| Re: For our UK friends [message #76516 ] |
Fr, 08 Juli 2005 20:03 |
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In article <e2g2q2-nka.ln1 [at] othello.pointerstop.ca>, news [at] pointerstop.ca
says...
follow up set to:
alt.fan.tolkien
> > "Tux Wonder-Dog" <wes.parish [at] paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
> > news:42ce68a6 [at] clear.net.nz...
>
> >> I thought you Americans believed in
> >> the Rule of Law. Perhaps not - you seem to believe more in the "Golden
> >> Rule" - "He who has the gold, rules".
>
> They love the rule of law. They just haven't yet figured out how few rights
> they have since they passed the PATRIOT law.
>
Have you read the PA?
If so would you please explain to me all the 'rights' I have lost
because of its passage?
--
Tar-Elenion
He is a warrior, and a spirit of wrath. In every
stroke that he deals he sees the Enemy who long
ago did thee this hurt.
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| Re: For our UK friends [message #76518 ] |
Fr, 08 Juli 2005 20:31 |
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"Tar-Elenion" <tar_elenion [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d385fd06c0737299898ff [at] news.comcast.giganews.com...
> In article <e2g2q2-nka.ln1 [at] othello.pointerstop.ca>, news [at] pointerstop.ca
> says...
> follow up set to:
> alt.fan.tolkien
>> > "Tux Wonder-Dog" <wes.parish [at] paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
>> > news:42ce68a6 [at] clear.net.nz...
>
>>
>> >> I thought you Americans believed in
>> >> the Rule of Law. Perhaps not - you seem to believe more in the
>> >> "Golden
>> >> Rule" - "He who has the gold, rules".
>>
>> They love the rule of law. They just haven't yet figured out how few
>> rights
>> they have since they passed the PATRIOT law.
>>
> Have you read the PA?
>
> If so would you please explain to me all the 'rights' I have lost
> because of its passage?
Ah, now that's not fair. You can't ask lefties for specifics; they'll lose
molecular coherence or something.
Although I do find it amusing to be lectured by a Canadian about a loss of
rights. Perhaps he'd do well to worry about the freedoms *he* is denied --
for instance the Canadian government can (and does) censor the press to a
*far* greater degree than the US government can. Glass houses and all
that...
--Ty
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| Re: For our UK friends [message #76521 ] |
Fr, 08 Juli 2005 22:29 |
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"Derek Broughton" <news [at] pointerstop.ca> wrote in message
news:e2g2q2-nka.ln1 [at] othello.pointerstop.ca...
> I do wish people would stop saying "the Muslims". It's not "the Muslims",
> any more than the invasion of Iraq was "the Christians". Iraqis might
> have
> the right to be boiling with fury. You and I have exactly the same right
> to feel that way as "the Muslims". No amount of fury, however, gives one
> the right to take it out on innocents.
Well, not to be pedantic, but it pretty much *is* the Muslims. More
accurately, self-identified Muslim terrorist groups are responsible for
about 90+% of all deaths from international terrorist attacks these days.
More specifically, a self-identified Muslim group targetted and murdered a
bunch of British civilians.
Now, of course this does not mean that all Muslims are terrorists. But I
don't think that we can get very far by ignoring the *fact* that Muslims --
not Hindus or Buddhists -- are directly responsible for most terrorist
murders. And that -- by their own admission -- they commit these murders
because of their belief in a religious duty to slaughter infidels. Hiding
behind misguided notions of political correctness or a feckless desire to
appease is unhelpful in understanding how best to defeat and annihilate
these scumbags.
>> <shrug> Well, the Muslim world is characterized by torture, brutality, a
>> lack of even the most basic human rights, a lack of consensual secular
>> governance, lack of free speech, homophobia, misogyny and religious
>> intolerance.
>
> And you're just as bad as Tux. _Most_ of the world is, unfortunately,
> characterized by most of those.
So you at least agree that my characterization is accurate. But we aren't
discussing Tibetan or Tahitian terrorists. We are discussing a despicable
act committed by self-identified *Muslim* terrorists.
And those who claim that these animals are motivated by purported American
human rights violations should be able to explain to us all why these
Muslims are only troubled by relatively mild violations by the Americans. If
human rights violations were their real motive, they'd be blowing up the
entire Muslim world first.
But ... *if* they are *actually* motivated by religious intolerance,
fanaticism and by a bloodthirsty desire to slaughter infidel civilians, then
we would expect them to act just as they have acted and aim most of their
attacks against infidels.
So, I think it is reasonable to ask those who appear so eager to defend
these animals to reconcile this.
And my observation that the Muslim world is a wretched hellhole is highly
relevant when pointing out the apparent hypocrisy of so many on the left.
They sanctimoniously *claim* to oppose misogyny, homophobia, religious
intolerance, torture, etc. And they certainly whine about it when they even
imagine it to exist in the US. Yet these same self-righteous twits fall all
over themselves to defend and justify some of the most execrable regimes on
the Earth. Even more disgustingly, they actually opposed the removal of the
worst mass murderer of Muslims in the last hundred years. On -- believe it
or not -- *moral* grounds. In other words, their deeds are in direct
contradiction to their claimed motives. And I learned a long time ago that
what someone *does* is a far more reliable indicator of his beliefs than
what he says. Talk, as they say, is cheap.
And I still want to know (a) how they can be so morally bankrupt and (b) how
they can delude themselves into thinking that no one notices their
hypocrisy.
> Your statement is probably true, but
> calling it a "Muslim" problem doesn't help anybody, and merely helps your
> average Muslim to believe that we're attacking their religion, rather than
> their leaders unislamic human rights abuses.
I refer you to the various UN Arab Human Development reports over the last
few years. Its analysis -- by Arab scholars incidentally -- shaows that the
Muslim world -- particularly the Arab-Iranian-Pakistani-Afghan part -- is
worse than anywhere else in the Third World except for parts of Subsaharan
Africa. This despite the considerable oil wealth in that part of the world.
The Muslims have done far less with far more than (for instance) most of
Asia, India and South America.
>>> Are you suggesting that the Human Right of vengeance doesn't belong to
>>> Arabs
>>> and Muslims - just because you say so?
>> "Right of vengeance"?
> Ack. Very scary. Almost American...
I just love it when sanctimonious Canadians throw stones like this.
>> The West has, for some 2000+ years,
>> generally obliterated nonwestern foes on the battlefield.
> ??
> Really? Let's see - Persia vs Greece: pretty much a draw (that gets rid
> of
> the "+" part of 2000+).
You really need to read about the battles before opining on the subject. It
is a historical fact that the West has generally dominated the battlefield
for the last few thousand years. Yes, there are exceptions - exceptions that
are remembered because they are comparatively rare.
But regardless of the historical facts, the reality is that no non-Western
military can stand toe to toe with a typical Western army.
> Napoleon? Stopped dead when he tried to get east of Europe.
Uh, Russia is part of the West. Which of course illustrated the fact that
for the most part, Western militaries have only had to fear other Western
militaries.
>> From Marathon to
>> Iraqi Freedom, the same thing happens. Tens of thousands of nonwesterners
>> are killed while only a very few westerners are killed. The few memorable
>> exceptions are memorable precisely because they are so rare. To that must
>> be added the fact that the Arabs are among the worst soldiers in history.
> TE Lawrence didn't think so.
So?
Lawrence was a romantic idealist. And of course that was a long time ago.
Despite outnumbering Israel by a factor of 30+ to 1, despite being lavishly
supplied with Soviet, French and Chinese weaponry, and despite tremendous
oil wealth, the Arabs have been utterly humiliated time and time again by
the only real democracy in the region - Israel. 6 million Israelis manage to
completely dominate some 150 million+ Arabs and you claim that the Arabs are
competent? Over the last 50 years the Arabs have been routed by everyone
they've fought -- Israelis, Americans, British, Chadian tribesmen. Heck,
even the French have stomped them.
Indeed, I particularly enjoyed it when a US military police unit -- composed
largely of and led by a woman -- utterly routed the fearsome Warriors of
Allah awhile back. Gee, do the misogynistic Warriors of Allah get the full
complement of virgins if they are killed by infidel women? In any case, this
is the strongest reason yet to allow women into combat units.
If the West finally tires of Islamic fanticism and decides to use the Muslim
definition of "legitimate target", the Muslims will be very quickly
annihilated. And before you whine that Muslims don't support terrorists,
please reconcile the fact that these purported Muslim opponents of terrorism
seem to be very quiet.
And it doesn't look good for Muslims who would like to moderate the
extremist parts of Muslim theology. For evidence of this, see Salman
Rushdie, who is *still* under a death sentence by the crackpot mullocracy of
Iran. Funny how the lefties seem untropubled by this. I like this article
condemning such "moderate" Muslims:
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=subjects&Area=jih ad&ID=SP90505 . The
title says it all: "Muslims in Name, Apostates in Fact". And as anyone
familiar with Islam know, the sentence for apostacy is usually death. A
similar article appears here
( http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=subjects&Area=jih ad&ID=IA20805)
"Accusing Muslim Intellectuals of Apostasy". "In an interview... Sheikh
Yousef Al-Qaradhawi, one of the most prominent clerics in Sunni Islam and
among Islamist circles and a spiritual leader for the Muslim Brotherhood
movement, discussed the view of modern religious law on carrying out the
punishment for ridda, and permitted the murder of free Muslim intellectuals
whose views differ from those of Islamist clerics." Nice.
And of course, there was the communique of twenty-six gibbering Saudi
clerics (published in November 2004 and posted at one time at
http://www.islamtoday.net/) sanctioning Jihad against the U.S. in Iraq. Of
course, "gibbering Saudi clerics" is kinda like saying "tall giants", but I
digress. Embarassed by this, the feckless Saudi lunocrats trotted out a few
purported religious authorities who claimed that it was wrong to encourage
Saudis to go to Iraq and slaughter infidels. The reason -- because it was
against the Saudi ruler's command, thereby violating the purported Muslim
duty to obey the ruler. So it's only okay for Muslims to slaughter
"infidels" and fellow Muslim women and children if the ruler says it's okay.
As an aside, it's interesting how much enthusiasm the Saudi fanatics have
for murdering their fellow *Iraqi* Muslims. The Saudis had better hope that
the Iraqis don't carry a grudge...
This goes on and on and on. The antisemetic jeremiads spewing from the
Muslim world are even more insane, rivaling anything Goebels ever put out.
Here are some examples:
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=subjects&Area=ant isemitism&ID=SP90805
"(Muslims) Will Rule America; Israel is a Cancer; Jews are a Virus
Resembling AIDS; Muslims Will Finish Them Off"
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=subjects&Area=ant isemitism&ID=SP78204
-- "We were Educated from Childhood that the Holocaust is a Big Lie"
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=subjects&Area=ant isemitism&ID=SP76304
-- "The Jews [are] Slaughtering Non-Jews, Draining their Blood, and Using
it for Talmudic Religious Rituals".
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=subjects&Area=ant isemitism&ID=SP70004
-- "The Jews are Behind Every Disaster or Terrorist Act"
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=subjects&Area=ant isemitism&ID=SP37002
-- a rather touching sermon from one of the clerics of the Religion of
Peace, ended by the following tolerant and peaceful prayer:
"Oh Allah, show the Jews a black day."
"Oh Allah, annihilate the Jews and their supporters."
"Oh Allah, raise the flag of Jihad across the land."
"Oh Allah, forgive our sins..."
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=subjects&Area=ant isemitism&ID=SP21201
-- Egyptian columnist thanks Hitler (again): "[Insistently] for the second
time, thanks to Hitler, of blessed memory, who on behalf of the
Palestinians, revenged in advance, against the most vile criminals on the
face of the earth. Although we do have a complaint against him for his
revenge on them was not enough." Yeah, bobby, these are the Good Guys.
Nor do these folks limit their insane bigotry to adults. They inculcate
Muslim children into it as well. This site
(http://www.edume.org/reports/4/1.htm ), has numerous antisemetic quotes
from Arab textbooks, like:
-"One must beware of the Jews, for they are treacherous and disloyal." 9th
grade Palestinian text
-"Concerning these deceptive, treasonous Jews, they received the recompense
for their treason and their scheming against their allies the Muslims: Allah
(gave) the Muslims their land, houses and property...'' Syrian 10th grade
Of course, such things do not surprise me given that they are written by
people who encourage children (though seldom their own children) to become
suicide bombers. Where's the renowned lefty concern for children?
Anyhow, for every muted, equivocal. "yes but", pseudo-condemnation of Muslim
terrorism (usually in English and seldom in Arabic) by "moderate" Muslims,
we get hundreds of these kind of rants from everywhere in the Muslim world.
Yet still, lefties hypocritically whine about purported American bigotry and
confidently assert that the extremists represent a very tiny fraction of
Muslims.
Well, maybe so. But the extremists sure do seem to include a huge proportion
of the Muslim leaders in the Middle East, don't they?
Indeed, the Middle East is just crawling with tolerant, open minded Muslim
clerics, leaders and intellectuals, isn't it?
>> That's what makes you terrorist-coddling lefties so pathetic.
> I resent that.
<shrug> I call 'em as I see 'em.
> I'm a left-wing, bleeding heart, knee-jerk liberal. I can
> still identify a terrorist when he throws a bomb at me. Funny how the US
> is incapable of actually finding any evidence to use against all the
> people
> in Gitmo, though.
Well since I don't have a top secret clearance, I can't assess your
confident assertion that the US is incapable of finding evidence against the
unlawful combatants at Gitmo, most of whom were captured on the battlefield
in Afghanistan. But -- if it makes you feel better, I'd be quite happy for
the US to treat them per international law. See, it is permissable under
international law to summarily execute unlawful combatants...
>>> I thought you Americans believed in
>>> the Rule of Law. Perhaps not - you seem to believe more in the "Golden
>>> Rule" - "He who has the gold, rules".
> They love the rule of law. They just haven't yet figured out how few
> rights
> they have since they passed the PATRIOT law.
I think that you Canadians might be better off contemplating the rights I
have that you do not. You will find that your self-righteousness is
unwarranted.
>> Go ahead, answer the question. Are you actually implying that the West
>> should target and murder Muslim civilians?
> Definitely not.
Well, that's what he seemed to say. He seemed to argue that it was
permissible for Muslims to target and murder civilians. If so, then there's
no reason why it wouldn't be equally permissible for the West to do the
same...
>> Heh. There are few things on the earth as hypocritical as being lectured
>> about such things by *anyone* from Europe or descended from Europeans.
> I'm sorry, I'm not even responsible for the sins of my father, let alone
> the
> excesses of prior centuries.
And I was born after the Jim Crow laws and the lynchings that this idiot
referenced.
>> It's like being called arrogant or cowardly by the French. Or being
>> lectured on imperialism by a European...
> More bloody generalizations...
But accurate ones for the most part.
>> And, uh, there are no Jim Crow laws in the US, nor are there.
> !! boggle...(perhaps it would have been more believable if you'd finished
> the sentence).
Yep, meant to say that there are no laws restricting the rights of blacks to
vote in the US. Such laws were struck down as unconstitutional 50 years ago.
>> Oh, you are a card. I am snivelling about nothing. I want the bastards
>> dead, and sooner rather than later. I want the regimes who support them
>> destroyed. I want the people who support them punished.
> But you can't even figure out who supported them (hint - it was never
> Iraq).
What has Iraq got to do with finding the bastards responsible for London?
Oh, I get it. The self-identified Muslim terrorists murdered British
civilians because the Brits are in Iraq -- but not because they're in
Afghanistan? Well darn. <slaps forehead with palm> Why didn't we just keep
our troops out of Iraq before 9-11-01? Why, if we hadn't invaded Iraq, all
the acts of Islamic terrorism over the last 30 years could have been
avoided! Heck, we better stop making these terrorists mad. Otherwise, they
might do something really mean, like crash some airliners into one of our
major cities and kill thousands. Gee, it's so simple when I look at it your
way...
Are you actually asserting that Saddam did not fund, train and support
Islamic terrorists? Or are you merely trying to draw a hypertechnical and
artificial meaningless distinction between various Islamist terrorist
groups -- "Well yes, he did support many Islamist terrorists, and he did
encourage Islamic terrorism, but he did not aid *anyone* who was linked to
9-11. And we know exactly who all was involved..."
Yeah, right.
Me, I'm content to target all the Islamist death cultists. That way, we'll
be sure to get the right ones. And I really don't think I'll miss the others
much.
Of course, there were numerous other good reasons to take him down -- and no
good reasons to leave him in power.
>> If lefties *truly* opposed these things,
>> they would have applauded the removal of Saddam and demanded that the
>> West
>> remove the other Muslim autocrats in the Middle East. Yet they still
>> self-righteously defend some of the vilest regimes on the earth.
> LOL. So, instead, we should support the Pinochets, the Contras, Saddam
> (when he was fighting Iran). You're in no position to complain about
> "self-righteousness'.
The key difference that you are intentionally trying to evade is that *I*
did not justify the removal of Saddam on moral grounds. So therefore, I
cannot be accused of hypocrisy on this point. I believe that there were
numerous reasons to remove him -- any one of which was sufficient. The fact
that we were also removing a murdering monster was a nice bonus.
Buy *you* and your ilk opposed Saddam's removal on purportedly moral
grounds. You sanctimoniously whinged on about the purported "immorality" of
removing a brutal despot. Therefore it is reasonable to ask how anyone who
*claims* to be morally motivated could possibly oppose the removal of one of
the vilest despots in recent times. To do this seems the height of hypocrisy
and I note that you have failed to explain it to us.
Of course, you *might* oppose Saddam's removal for far less admirable
reasons. If you can't reconcile your apparent hypocrisy, then I can see no
other reasonable explanation...
>> Why are you folks so utterly hypocritical?
> Just human nature, as you're demonstrating...
Non-answer noted.
--Ty
|
|
|
| Re: For our UK friends [message #76529 ] |
Sa, 09 Juli 2005 00:53 |
|
> "aelfwina" <aelfwina [at] cableone.net> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:11cqg12ighjj918 [at] corp.supernews.com...
>
>>I was shocked to hear the news. Please know you have my thoughts and
>>prayers, and if possible, let us all know if you are okay?
Condolences from the U.S. We know the feeling, but
we also remember how London made it through the Blitz.
It'll take more than a few primitive barbaric cowardly
scumbags to get to the Londoners.
-- FotW
"If you must read newspapers and magazines at least
give yourself a mouthwash with The Lord of the Rings."
-- C.S. Lewis
|
|
|
| Re: For our UK friends [message #76554 ] |
Sa, 09 Juli 2005 11:14 |
|
Flame of the West wrote:
>
>> "aelfwina" <aelfwina [at] cableone.net> skrev i en meddelelse
>> news:11cqg12ighjj918 [at] corp.supernews.com...
>>
>>> I was shocked to hear the news. Please know you have my thoughts and
>>> prayers, and if possible, let us all know if you are okay?
>
>
> Condolences from the U.S. We know the feeling, but
> we also remember how London made it through the Blitz.
> It'll take more than a few primitive barbaric cowardly
> scumbags to get to the Londoners.
>
>
> -- FotW
<piggy-backing on ForW's post as my server seems
to have dropped the original>
Condolences from south Texas and Good Luck to
Scotland Yard on catching the evil bastards.
--
Dennis is currently having a passionate, if entirely
imaginary love affair with Susan Sto Helit of Discworld.
If you're looking for the spamtrap, get to the 'POINT'.
|
|
|
| Re: For our UK friends [message #76592 ] |
Sa, 09 Juli 2005 21:09 |
|
Wes ðu Ty hal!
> If the West finally tires of Islamic fanticism and decides to use the Muslim
> definition of "legitimate target", the Muslims will be very quickly
> annihilated. And before you whine that Muslims don't support terrorists,
> please reconcile the fact that these purported Muslim opponents of terrorism
> seem to be very quiet.
They've been quite vocal in their condemnation of the latest attacks -
even the Muslim Brotherhood seems to have condemned the London bombings:
http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SR3605
--
Arvind
You are only young once, but you can stay immature indefinitely.
|
|
|
| Re: For our UK friends [message #76595 ] |
Sa, 09 Juli 2005 21:44 |
|
TT Arvind <ttarvind [at] hotmail.com> wrote in
news:MPG.1d3a30fff721667989ffb [at] news.individual.net:
> Wes ðu Ty hal!
>> If the West finally tires of Islamic fanticism and decides to use
>> the Muslim definition of "legitimate target", the Muslims will be
>> very quickly annihilated. And before you whine that Muslims don't
>> support terrorists, please reconcile the fact that these
>> purported Muslim opponents of terrorism seem to be very quiet.
>
> They've been quite vocal in their condemnation of the latest
> attacks - even the Muslim Brotherhood seems to have condemned the
> London bombings:
>
> http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SR3605
There seems to have been a sighting of a possible bomber. If his
identity can be confirmed, I suspect that his friends and relatives
will come forward with information. If it's indeed a lone bomber, then
perhaps this is an indictment of the one day travelcard. At least
separate tickets would have made the bastard pay more in fares.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,15245 63,00.html
--
Cheers, ymt.
|
|
|
| Re: For our UK friends [message #76599 ] |
Sa, 09 Juli 2005 21:57 |
|
On Sat, 9 Jul 2005 20:09:53 +0100, TT Arvind <ttarvind [at] hotmail.com>
wrote:
>
>They've been quite vocal in their condemnation of the latest attacks -
>even the Muslim Brotherhood seems to have condemned the London bombings:
>
>http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SR3605
Visit London!
It's *safe* now!
the softrat
"Honi soit qui mal y pense."
mailto:softrat [at] pobox.com
--
Pave the planet! One world. One people. One slab of asphalt.
|
|
|
| Re: For our UK friends [message #76617 ] |
So, 10 Juli 2005 01:55 |
|
"the softrat" <softrat [at] pobox.com> wrote in message
news:11b0d1prufddss0aiffar7dt1dodt381i1 [at] 4ax.com...
> On Sat, 9 Jul 2005 20:09:53 +0100, TT Arvind <ttarvind [at] hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >They've been quite vocal in their condemnation of the latest
attacks -
> >even the Muslim Brotherhood seems to have condemned the London
bombings:
> >
> >http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SR3605
>
> Visit London!
>
> It's *safe* now!
>
Saw a great quote about it all - I think I may make it into a sig.
"It's hard to panic the British. They've dealt with the Blitz, the
IRA, the Silurians, the Zarbi, the Daleks, the Cybermen..."
--
Jette Goldie
jette [at] blueyonder.co.uk
INTERACTION - the 63rd Worldcon
"A European Worldcon in Glasgow"
http://interaction.worldcon.org.uk/
|
|
|
| Re: For our UK friends [message #76622 ] |
So, 10 Juli 2005 02:42 |
|
"Tar-Elenion" <tar_elenion [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d385fd06c0737299898ff [at] news.comcast.giganews.com...
> In article <e2g2q2-nka.ln1 [at] othello.pointerstop.ca>, news [at] pointerstop.ca
> says...
> follow up set to:
> alt.fan.tolkien
>> > "Tux Wonder-Dog" <wes.parish [at] paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
>> > news:42ce68a6 [at] clear.net.nz...
>
>>
>> >> I thought you Americans believed in
>> >> the Rule of Law. Perhaps not - you seem to believe more in the
>> >> "Golden
>> >> Rule" - "He who has the gold, rules".
>>
>> They love the rule of law. They just haven't yet figured out how few
>> rights
>> they have since they passed the PATRIOT law.
>>
> Have you read the PA?
>
> If so would you please explain to me all the 'rights' I have lost
> because of its passage?
>
> --
> Tar-Elenion
The Patriot Act is a farce. But for tux to so adamantly come out in favor of
those terrorist attacks is just amazing to me.
>
> He is a warrior, and a spirit of wrath. In every
> stroke that he deals he sees the Enemy who long
> ago did thee this hurt.
|
|
|
| Re: For our UK friends [message #76623 ] |
So, 10 Juli 2005 02:48 |
|
"TT Arvind" <ttarvind [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d3a30fff721667989ffb [at] news.individual.net...
> Wes ðu Ty hal!
>> If the West finally tires of Islamic fanticism and decides to use the
>> Muslim
>> definition of "legitimate target", the Muslims will be very quickly
>> annihilated. And before you whine that Muslims don't support terrorists,
>> please reconcile the fact that these purported Muslim opponents of
>> terrorism
>> seem to be very quiet.
>
> They've been quite vocal in their condemnation of the latest attacks -
> even the Muslim Brotherhood seems to have condemned the London bombings:
>
> http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SR3605
>
> --
> Arvind
Yes, seemingly so. But it was done in English. Not ONE of those
condemnations was done in a language from the mideast, so that it was NOT
carried in any media sources in that part of the world,
>
> You are only young once, but you can stay immature indefinitely.
|
|
|
| Re: For our UK friends [message #76624 ] |
So, 10 Juli 2005 02:49 |
|
"Flame of the West" <jsolinas [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
news:5OqdnUvGYrtanlLfRVn-pw [at] comcast.com...
>
>> "aelfwina" <aelfwina [at] cableone.net> skrev i en meddelelse
>> news:11cqg12ighjj918 [at] corp.supernews.com...
>>
>>>I was shocked to hear the news. Please know you have my thoughts and
>>>prayers, and if possible, let us all know if you are okay?
>
> Condolences from the U.S. We know the feeling, but
> we also remember how London made it through the Blitz.
> It'll take more than a few primitive barbaric cowardly
> scumbags to get to the Londoners.
>
>
> -- FotW
However, the French are already trying to find someone to whom they can
surrender
>
> "If you must read newspapers and magazines at least
> give yourself a mouthwash with The Lord of the Rings."
>
> -- C.S. Lewis
|
|
|
| Re: For our UK friends [message #76625 ] |
So, 10 Juli 2005 03:32 |
|
"Baron Ringler" <baronjosefr [at] aol.com> wrote in message
news:vf_ze.226774$3V6.102442 [at] fe04.news.easynews.com...
>
> "TT Arvind" <ttarvind [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1d3a30fff721667989ffb [at] news.individual.net...
>> Wes ðu Ty hal!
>>> If the West finally tires of Islamic fanticism and decides to use the
>>> Muslim
>>> definition of "legitimate target", the Muslims will be very quickly
>>> annihilated. And before you whine that Muslims don't support terrorists,
>>> please reconcile the fact that these purported Muslim opponents of
>>> terrorism
>>> seem to be very quiet.
>>
>> They've been quite vocal in their condemnation of the latest attacks -
>> even the Muslim Brotherhood seems to have condemned the London bombings:
>>
>> http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SR3605
>>
>> --
>> Arvind
>
>
> Yes, seemingly so. But it was done in English. Not ONE of those
> condemnations was done in a language from the mideast, so that it was NOT
> carried in any media sources in that part of the world,
>>
>> You are only young once, but you can stay immature indefinitely.
>
>
By the way, I found a great site with a letter to the editor frmo a London
citizen.
http://www.lnreview.co.uk/news/005167.php
|
|
|
| Re: For our UK friends [message #76626 ] |
So, 10 Juli 2005 04:01 |
|
"Baron Ringler" <baronjosefr [at] aol.com> wrote in
news:vf_ze.226774$3V6.102442 [at] fe04.news.easynews.com:
> "TT Arvind" <ttarvind [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1d3a30fff721667989ffb [at] news.individual.net...
>> Wes ðu Ty hal!
>
>>> If the West finally tires of Islamic fanticism and decides to
>>> use the Muslim
>>> definition of "legitimate target", the Muslims will be very
>>> quickly annihilated. And before you whine that Muslims don't
>>> support terrorists, please reconcile the fact that these
>>> purported Muslim opponents of terrorism
>>> seem to be very quiet.
>>
>> They've been quite vocal in their condemnation of the latest
>> attacks - even the Muslim Brotherhood seems to have condemned the
>> London bombings:
>>
>> http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SR3605
>
> Yes, seemingly so. But it was done in English. Not ONE of those
> condemnations was done in a language from the mideast, so that it
> was NOT carried in any media sources in that part of the world,
Considering that any such operation would have been planned in detail
here, what matters is the investigation of intelligence provided by
the Muslim community in Britain, and specifically London. So why
should it be in any language other than English?
It currently looks as though at least two of the tube bombs were
planted by the same person, with a further lead about a suspicious
looking bloke on the No 30 bus. Witness reports and CCTV footage
will give us further evidence, and I'd imagine that relevant stories
will be volunteered by friends and family once a name is identified.
Btw, these 'condemnations' matter little in the greater scope of
things. What matters is how the relevant community responds, and
that can only be seen over time. What is important is that we help
them to respond in the right way, and things will eventually sort
themselves out.
--
Cheers, ymt.
|
|
|
| Re: For our UK friends [message #76629 ] |
So, 10 Juli 2005 05:19 |
|
Baron Ringler wrote:
>>It'll take more than a few primitive barbaric cowardly
>>scumbags to get to the Londoners.
>
> However, the French are already trying to find someone to whom they can
> surrender
*LOL!*
-- FotW
"If you must read newspapers and magazines at least
give yourself a mouthwash with The Lord of the Rings."
-- C.S. Lewis
|
|
|
| Re: For our UK friends [message #76630 ] |
So, 10 Juli 2005 05:22 |
|
"Baron Ringler" <baronjosefr [at] aol.com> wrote in message news:vf_ze.226774
> "TT Arvind" <ttarvind [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > They've been quite vocal in their condemnation of the latest attacks -
> > even the Muslim Brotherhood seems to have condemned the London bombings:
> > http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SR3605
> Yes, seemingly so. But it was done in English. Not ONE of those
> condemnations was done in a language from the mideast, so that it was NOT
> carried in any media sources in that part of the world,
The article also noted that most Friday sermons were silent about the
attack.
And your observation reinforces the point that I made previously in another
forum:
***
<snip of numerous anti-semetic and anti-western quotes from Muslim clerics
and intellectuals>
Anyhow, for every muted, equivocal. "yes but", neo-condemnation of Muslim
terrorism (usually in English and seldom in Arabic) by "moderate" Muslims,
we get hundreds of these kind of rants from everywhere in the Muslim world.
Yet still, lefties hypocritically whine about purported American
bigotry and confidently assert that the extremists represent a very tiny
fraction of Muslims.
Well, maybe so. But the extremists sure do seem to include a huge proportion
of the Muslim leaders in the Middle East, don't they?
Yep, the Middle East is just crawling with tolerant, open minded
Muslim clerics, leaders and intellectuals, isn't it?
***
--Ty
|
|
|
| Re: For our UK friends [message #76631 ] |
So, 10 Juli 2005 05:23 |
|
"Baron Ringler" <baronjosefr [at] aol.com> wrote in message news:pg_ze.183983
> However, the French are already trying to find someone to whom they can
> surrender
Is there anyone they *haven't* surrendered to?
--Ty
|
|
|
| Re: For our UK friends [message #76636 ] |
So, 10 Juli 2005 08:14 |
|
"Jette Goldie" <jet [at] blueyonder.com.uk> wrote in message
news:TtZze.66471$G8.17932 [at] text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> "the softrat" <softrat [at] pobox.com> wrote in message
> news:11b0d1prufddss0aiffar7dt1dodt381i1 [at] 4ax.com...
>>
>> Visit London!
>>
>> It's *safe* now!
>>
>
>
> Saw a great quote about it all - I think I may make it into a sig.
>
> "It's hard to panic the British. They've dealt with the Blitz, the
> IRA, the Silurians, the Zarbi, the Daleks, the Cybermen..."
I don't like to quibble (well yeh, OK, I do) but I don't think that the
Zarbi ever attacked London. And while the plans of the Silurians and
Cybermen for wiping out humanity must have impacted badly on Londoners if
successfully implemented, I don't recall them directly attacking London
(except perhaps in the plague spread by the Silurians which was seen in one
shot to reach London, as well as being said to have reached Paris and other
cities).
--
Apteryx
|
|
|
| Re: For our UK friends [message #76639 ] |
So, 10 Juli 2005 09:48 |
|
On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 23:55:31 GMT, "Jette Goldie"
<jet [at] blueyonder.com.uk> wrote:
>
>Saw a great quote about it all - I think I may make it into a sig.
>
>"It's hard to panic the British. They've dealt with the Blitz, the
>IRA, the Silurians, the Zarbi, the Daleks, the Cybermen..."
".... the Americans, the Irish..."
the softrat
"Honi soit qui mal y pense."
mailto:softrat [at] pobox.com
--
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made
your horn louder." -- Steven Wright
|
|
|
| Re: For our UK friends [message #76642 ] |
So, 10 Juli 2005 13:09 |
|
Ty wrote:
> The article also noted that most Friday sermons were silent about the
> attack.
>
I heard the leaders of the Islamic community in Britain condemn these
latest atrocities, and they certainly seemed to mean it. Much more so,
I might say, than yourself and that other poster going under the
curious psuedonym of "Baron Ringler". You made some feeble remarks in
condemnation of the attacks, but then immediately segued away into the
usal frothy mouthed rants against the French (close allies of the UK,
and sharers in their intelligence) and the Muslim world in general.
Pretty obvious to even the most casual observer who is the most against
acts of terrorism - I'll spell it out - it ain't you.
Sam.
|
|
|
| Re: For our UK friends [message #76645 ] |
So, 10 Juli 2005 13:27 |
|
Flame of the West wrote:
> Baron Ringler wrote:
>
>>> It'll take more than a few primitive barbaric cowardly
>>> scumbags to get to the Londoners.
>>
>>
>> However, the French are already trying to find someone to whom they
>> can surrender
>
>
> *LOL!*
Maybe some day the muslim community will be as enlightened as FotW
and his fellow catholics, and understand that the only way to deal
with these terrorist attacks is to blame them on *gay* muslims...
Morgil
|
|
|
| Re: For our UK friends [message #76648 ] |
So, 10 Juli 2005 13:56 |
|
Setting followups to aft.
"Sam's the little guy" <samdekat [at] hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1120993761.209655.143380 [at] g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> Ty wrote:
>
>> The article also noted that most Friday sermons were silent about
>> the attack.
>
> I heard the leaders of the Islamic community in Britain condemn
> these latest atrocities, and they certainly seemed to mean it.
> Much more so, I might say, than yourself and that other poster
> going under the curious psuedonym of "Baron Ringler".
The Baron is, of course, BaronjosefR.
--
Cheers, ymt.
|
|
|
| Re: For our UK friends [message #76649 ] |
So, 10 Juli 2005 14:04 |
|
Morgil wrote:
> Flame of the West wrote:
> > Baron Ringler wrote:
> >
> >>> It'll take more than a few primitive barbaric cowardly
> >>> scumbags to get to the Londoners.
> >>
> >>
> >> However, the French are already trying to find someone to whom they
> >> can surrender
> >
> >
> > *LOL!*
>
> Maybe some day the muslim community will be as enlightened as FotW
> and his fellow catholics, and understand that the only way to deal
> with these terrorist attacks is to blame them on *gay* muslims...
>
I thought it was the fault of French Muslims. At least today - tomorrow
it will probably be Zoroastrian Swedes, and then on tuesday, the
Ugandan Falun Gong.
|
|
|
| Re: For our UK friends [message #76650 ] |
So, 10 Juli 2005 14:05 |
|
"Yuk Tang" <jimlaker2 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns968F1ECF16352yos132000yahoocouk [at] 195.92.193.157...
> "Baron Ringler" <baronjosefr [at] aol.com> wrote in
> news:vf_ze.226774$3V6.102442 [at] fe04.news.easynews.com:
>> "TT Arvind" <ttarvind [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.1d3a30fff721667989ffb [at] news.individual.net...
>>> Wes ðu Ty hal!
>>
>>>> If the West finally tires of Islamic fanticism and decides to
>>>> use the Muslim
>>>> definition of "legitimate target", the Muslims will be very
>>>> quickly annihilated. And before you whine that Muslims don't
>>>> support terrorists, please reconcile the fact that these
>>>> purported Muslim opponents of terrorism
>>>> seem to be very quiet.
>>>
>>> They've been quite vocal in their condemnation of the latest
>>> attacks - even the Muslim Brotherhood seems to have condemned the
>>> London bombings:
>>>
>>> http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SR3605
>>
>> Yes, seemingly so. But it was done in English. Not ONE of those
>> condemnations was done in a language from the mideast, so that it
>> was NOT carried in any media sources in that part of the world,
>
> Considering that any such operation would have been planned in detail
> here, what matters is the investigation of intelligence provided by
> the Muslim community in Britain, and specifically London. So why
> should it be in any language other than English?
Many of the miltant idiots, though they CAN read and understand English,
refuse to do so for whatever silly pseudo-religious stupidity that they can
think of. They will only read newspapers or listen to broadcasters that
represent what they consider to be "Islamic" languages. So to make a
condemnation in English, not middle eastern languages, is pointless, as the
people to whom they should be directed aren't going to read them, but at
best get them second hand. In other words, condemnation in English is done
for the PR value to the Western media, and has no other purpose.
>
> It currently looks as though at least two of the tube bombs were
> planted by the same person, with a further lead about a suspicious
> looking bloke on the No 30 bus. Witness reports and CCTV footage
> will give us further evidence, and I'd imagine that relevant stories
> will be volunteered by friends and family once a name is identified.
>
> Btw, these 'condemnations' matter little in the greater scope of
> things. What matters is how the relevant community responds, and
> that can only be seen over time. What is important is that we help
> them to respond in the right way, and things will eventually sort
> themselves out.
>
>
> --
> Cheers, ymt.
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| Re: For our UK friends [message #76651 ] |
So, 10 Juli 2005 14:26 |
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Setting followups to aft.
"Baron Ringler" <baronjosefr [at] aol.com> wrote in
news:ka8Ae.368120$581.86953 [at] fe05.news.easynews.com:
> "Yuk Tang" <jimlaker2 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns968F1ECF16352yos132000yahoocouk [at] 195.92.193.157...
>> "Baron Ringler" <baronjosefr [at] aol.com> wrote in
>> news:vf_ze.226774$3V6.102442 [at] fe04.news.easynews.com:
>>> "TT Arvind" <ttarvind [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:MPG.1d3a30fff721667989ffb [at] news.individual.net...
>>>> Wes ðu Ty hal!
>>>
>>>>> If the West finally tires of Islamic fanticism and decides to
>>>>> use the Muslim
>>>>> definition of "legitimate target", the Muslims will be very
>>>>> quickly annihilated. And before you whine that Muslims don't
>>>>> support terrorists, please reconcile the fact that these
>>>>> purported Muslim opponents of terrorism
>>>>> seem to be very quiet.
>>>>
>>>> They've been quite vocal in their condemnation of the latest
>>>> attacks - even the Muslim Brotherhood seems to have condemned
>>>> the London bombings:
>>>>
>>>> http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SR3605
>>>
>>> Yes, seemingly so. But it was done in English. Not ONE of those
>>> condemnations was done in a language from the mideast, so that
>>> it was NOT carried in any media sources in that part of the
>>> world,
>>
>> Considering that any such operation would have been planned in
>> detail here, what matters is the investigation of intelligence
>> provided by the Muslim community in Britain, and specifically
>> London. So why should it be in any language other than English?
>
> Many of the miltant idiots, though they CAN read and understand
> English, refuse to do so for whatever silly pseudo-religious
> stupidity that they can think of. They will only read newspapers
> or listen to broadcasters that represent what they consider to be
> "Islamic" languages. So to make a condemnation in English, not
> middle eastern languages, is pointless, as the people to whom they
> should be directed aren't going to read them, but at best get them
> second hand. In other words, condemnation in English is done for
> the PR value to the Western media, and has no other purpose.
If the hardcore nutjobs aren't going to take any notice, why would it
matter what language it is in? Any such appeal isn't designed to
prevent action by the core of any such enterprise, but to stop
waverers from joining them, and encourage friends and family of the
heart to come forward with information. And if these people are
living in the UK, why should the appeal be in any language other than
English?
The upcoming fatwa seems to be designed for precisely this effect,
removing the ideological foundation for such attacks while the
communities work on reconciling them with British society. The
latter is far more important in the overall picture. My dad is
comparing this with the bombing campaigns in Hong Kong in 1967, which
the Brits resolved by political reforms that rendered the bombers
irrelevant.
--
Cheers, ymt.
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| Re: For our UK friends [message #76652 ] |
So, 10 Juli 2005 14:58 |
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Yuk Tang <jimlaker2 [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
> Setting followups to aft.
Thanks. Trying to beat down the OT flames in RABT might take a while
though...
<snip>
> Any such appeal isn't designed to
> prevent action by the core of any such enterprise, but to stop
> waverers from joining them, and encourage friends and family of the
> heart to come forward with information. And if these people are
> living in the UK, why should the appeal be in any language other than
> English?
>
> The upcoming fatwa seems to be designed for precisely this effect,
> removing the ideological foundation for such attacks while the
> communities work on reconciling them with British society. The
> latter is far more important in the overall picture. My dad is
> comparing this with the bombing campaigns in Hong Kong in 1967, which
> the Brits resolved by political reforms that rendered the bombers
> irrelevant.
Did it need something like this to happen before such a fatwa was
issued? Were the Muslim communities already working to reduce the effect
of the 'rogue mullahs'?
Christopher
--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard
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| Re: For our UK friends [message #76653 ] |
So, 10 Juli 2005 15:02 |
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Yuk Tang <jimlaker2 [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
<snip>
> Islamic leaders will issue 'fatwa' on terrorists
> http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/article298109.ece
Thanks for that.
Drifting OT, but also found this:
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/article298100.ece
[BTW, what are the '.ece' bits?]
Christopher
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| Re: For our UK friends [message #76658 ] |
So, 10 Juli 2005 16:57 |
|
"Christopher Kreuzer" <spamgard [at] blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in
news:GX8Ae.66672$G8.29027 [at] text.news.blueyonder.co.uk:
> Yuk Tang <jimlaker2 [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Setting followups to aft.
>
> Thanks. Trying to beat down the OT flames in RABT might take a
> while though...
>
> <snip>
>
>> Any such appeal isn't designed to
>> prevent action by the core of any such enterprise, but to stop
>> waverers from joining them, and encourage friends and family of
>> the heart to come forward with information. And if these people
>> are living in the UK, why should the appeal be in any language
>> other than English?
>>
>> The upcoming fatwa seems to be designed for precisely this
>> effect, removing the ideological foundation for such attacks
>> while the communities work on reconciling them with British
>> society. The latter is far more important in the overall
>> picture. My dad is comparing this with the bombing campaigns in
>> Hong Kong in 1967, which the Brits resolved by political reforms
>> that rendered the bombers irrelevant.
>
> Did it need something like this to happen before such a fatwa was
> issued? Were the Muslim communities already working to reduce the
> effect of the 'rogue mullahs'?
Perhaps I'm over-optimistic, but I prefer to think of it as a
catalyst. Things were going to move in the right direction
eventually, but this made it clear that no-one could be equivocal
about the indiscriminate use of violence. AFAIK the communities were
moving towards marginalising these 'rogue mullahs', even before this,
but as the Indie article makes clear, even 'rogue mullahs' now know
what their rhetoric means in reality, and are changing their tack.
'Chnaging their tack': perhaps this could be the precursor to another
Hornblower thread.
--
Cheers, ymt.
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| Re: For our UK friends [message #76662 ] |
So, 10 Juli 2005 17:38 |
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"Yuk Tang" <jimlaker2 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns968F88D0F81BByos132000yahoocouk [at] 195.92.193.157...
> Setting followups to aft.
>
> "Baron Ringler" <baronjosefr [at] aol.com> wrote in
> news:ka8Ae.368120$581.86953 [at] fe05.news.easynews.com:
>> "Yuk Tang" <jimlaker2 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns968F1ECF16352yos132000yahoocouk [at] 195.92.193.157...
>>> "Baron Ringler" <baronjosefr [at] aol.com> wrote in
>>> news:vf_ze.226774$3V6.102442 [at] fe04.news.easynews.com:
>>>> "TT Arvind" <ttarvind [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:MPG.1d3a30fff721667989ffb [at] news.individual.net...
>>>>> Wes ðu Ty hal!
>>>>
>>>>>> If the West finally tires of Islamic fanticism and decides to
>>>>>> use the Muslim
>>>>>> definition of "legitimate target", the Muslims will be very
>>>>>> quickly annihilated. And before you whine that Muslims don't
>>>>>> support terrorists, please reconcile the fact that these
>>>>>> purported Muslim opponents of terrorism
>>>>>> seem to be very quiet.
>>>>>
>>>>> They've been quite vocal in their condemnation of the latest
>>>>> attacks - even the Muslim Brotherhood seems to have condemned
>>>>> the London bombings:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SR3605
>>>>
>>>> Yes, seemingly so. But it was done in English. Not ONE of those
>>>> condemnations was done in a language from the mideast, so that
>>>> it was NOT carried in any media sources in that part of the
>>>> world,
>>>
>>> Considering that any such operation would have been planned in
>>> detail here, what matters is the investigation of intelligence
>>> provided by the Muslim community in Britain, and specifically
>>> London. So why should it be in any language other than English?
>>
>> Many of the miltant idiots, though they CAN read and understand
>> English, refuse to do so for whatever silly pseudo-religious
>> stupidity that they can think of. They will only read newspapers
>> or listen to broadcasters that represent what they consider to be
>> "Islamic" languages. So to make a condemnation in English, not
>> middle eastern languages, is pointless, as the people to whom they
>> should be directed aren't going to read them, but at best get them
>> second hand. In other words, condemnation in English is done for
>> the PR value to the Western media, and has no other purpose.
>
> If the hardcore nutjobs aren't going to take any notice, why would it
> matter what language it is in? Any such appeal isn't designed to
> prevent action by the core of any such enterprise, but to stop
> waverers from joining them, and encourage friends and family of the
> heart to come forward with information. And if these people are
> living in the UK, why should the appeal be in any language other than
> English?
>
> The upcoming fatwa seems to be designed for precisely this effect,
> removing the ideological foundation for such attacks while the
> communities work on reconciling them with British society. The
> latter is far more important in the overall picture. My dad is
> comparing this with the bombing campaigns in Hong Kong in 1967, which
> the Brits resolved by political reforms that rendered the bombers
> irrelevant.
>
>
> --
> Cheers, ymt.
Then put out the fatwa in Islamic languages, not just in English. The
Islamic terrorist element will ignore anything in English, but they would
have a tough time doing so if it were in an Islamic language. At the least
they would have to make excuses that might alienate them from more
mainstream elements of Islamic society. Until the fatwa is issued thus, it
is only a poor PR move and has absolutely no effect.
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| Re: For our UK friends [message #76665 ] |
So, 10 Juli 2005 19:20 |
|
"Baron Ringler" <baronjosefr [at] aol.com> wrote in
news:VhbAe.180110$ub.13593 [at] fe07.news.easynews.com:
> "Yuk Tang" <jimlaker2 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns968F88D0F81BByos132000yahoocouk [at] 195.92.193.157...
>> Setting followups to aft.
>>
>> "Baron Ringler" <baronjosefr [at] aol.com> wrote in
>> news:ka8Ae.368120$581.86953 [at] fe05.news.easynews.com:
>>>
>>> Many of the miltant idiots, though they CAN read and understand
>>> English, refuse to do so for whatever silly pseudo-religious
>>> stupidity that they can think of. They will only read newspapers
>>> or listen to broadcasters that represent what they consider to
>>> be "Islamic" languages. So to make a condemnation in English,
>>> not middle eastern languages, is pointless, as the people to
>>> whom they should be directed aren't going to read them, but at
>>> best get them second hand. In other words, condemnation in
>>> English is done for the PR value to the Western media, and has
>>> no other purpose.
>>
>> If the hardcore nutjobs aren't going to take any notice, why
>> would it matter what language it is in? Any such appeal isn't
>> designed to prevent action by the core of any such enterprise,
>> but to stop waverers from joining them, and encourage friends and
>> family of the heart to come forward with information. And if
>> these people are living in the UK, why should the appeal be in
>> any language other than English?
>>
>> The upcoming fatwa seems to be designed for precisely this
>> effect, removing the ideological foundation for such attacks
>> while the communities work on reconciling them with British
>> society. The latter is far more important in the overall
>> picture. My dad is comparing this with the bombing campaigns in
>> Hong Kong in 1967, which the Brits resolved by political reforms
>> that rendered the bombers irrelevant.
>
> Then put out the fatwa in Islamic languages, not just in English.
> The Islamic terrorist element will ignore anything in English, but
> they would have a tough time doing so if it were in an Islamic
> language. At the least they would have to make excuses that might
> alienate them from more mainstream elements of Islamic society.
> Until the fatwa is issued thus, it is only a poor PR move and has
> absolutely no effect.
Tell me, if these nutcases are going to ignore anything in the
English language, why they're going to take heed of something in an
'Islamic' language (I know of none except Arabic)? The person
issuing the fatwa is going to remain the same, whatever the language.
Why should one issued in Arabic be any more or less effective than
one in English?
This upcoming fatwa is aimed at British Muslims, to discourage them
from joining groups who seek to achieve their goals through violence.
As such, English is the natural language. British Muslims speak many
languages: Pakistanis may understand Urdu, but not Arabic, while
Iranians use Persian. The one language uniting them is English.
Ergo.
--
Cheers, ymt.
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| Re: For our UK friends [message #76667 ] |
So, 10 Juli 2005 19:22 |
|
"Morgil" <morestelx [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dar0n3$ir0$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi...
> Flame of the West wrote:
>> Baron Ringler wrote:
>>
>>>> It'll take more than a few primitive barbaric cowardly
>>>> scumbags to get to the Londoners.
>>>
>>>
>>> However, the French are already trying to find someone to whom they can
>>> surrender
>> *LOL!*
> Maybe some day the muslim community will be as enlightened as FotW
> and his fellow catholics, and understand that the only way to deal
> with these terrorist attacks is to blame them on *gay* muslims...
Since Islam proscribes death to homosexuals -- a sentence carried out in
many self-identified Muslim countries -- I think that the Muslims are ahead
in the gay-hating dept...
--Ty
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