| (Enterprise) Laser pistols or slug throwers [message #70493] |
Mi, 29 Juni 2005 11:57 |
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IMO they made a mistake going with phasers instead of the earlier style
lasers (as seen used in TOS) or slugthrowers. Much more dramatic
potential. They could have a non lethal stun type taser weapon but only
short range. Make it more of a moral dilemma and more consequences to
actions. Plus, why would TOS feature some people with older lasers (The
dude who hung out with the salt vampire, Pike in the Menagerie) when
"Enterprise" era crews had phaser pistols?
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| Re: (Enterprise) Laser pistols or slug throwers [message #70494 ] |
Mi, 29 Juni 2005 13:11 |
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David E. Powell wrote:
> IMO they made a mistake going with phasers instead of the earlier style
> lasers (as seen used in TOS) or slugthrowers. Much more dramatic
> potential. They could have a non lethal stun type taser weapon but only
> short range. Make it more of a moral dilemma and more consequences to
> actions. Plus, why would TOS feature some people with older lasers (The
> dude who hung out with the salt vampire, Pike in the Menagerie) when
> "Enterprise" era crews had phaser pistols?
>
Because Berman and Braga wanted to piss all over continuity and canon.
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| Re: (Enterprise) Laser pistols or slug throwers [message #70501 ] |
Mi, 29 Juni 2005 19:05 |
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I would have been happy if that were the only problem with Enterprise.
"David E. Powell" <David_Powell3006 [at] msn.com> wrote in message
news:1120039024.014457.55380 [at] g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> IMO they made a mistake going with phasers instead of the earlier style
> lasers (as seen used in TOS) or slugthrowers. Much more dramatic
> potential. They could have a non lethal stun type taser weapon but only
> short range. Make it more of a moral dilemma and more consequences to
> actions. Plus, why would TOS feature some people with older lasers (The
> dude who hung out with the salt vampire, Pike in the Menagerie) when
> "Enterprise" era crews had phaser pistols?
>
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| Re: (Enterprise) Laser pistols or slug throwers [message #71029 ] |
Do, 30 Juni 2005 16:17 |
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David E. Powell wrote:
> Plus, why would TOS feature some people with older lasers (The
> dude who hung out with the salt vampire, Pike in the Menagerie) when
> "Enterprise" era crews had phaser pistols?
Easy.
'TO: Federation Supply Depot #113
From: USS Starship Potempkin.
Request Phaser Pistol Model #441 Quantity 800.'
'TO: USS Starship Potempkin
From: Federation Supply Depot #113
Enclosed within: 441 Laser Pistols, Model number 800'
'TO: Federation Supply Depot #113
From: USS Starship Potempkin.
We cordially invite you to go fuck yourselves.'
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| Re: (Enterprise) Laser pistols or slug throwers [message #75184 ] |
Sa, 09 Juli 2005 04:39 |
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"David E. Powell" wrote:
>
> Plus, why would TOS feature some people with older lasers (The
> dude who hung out with the salt vampire, Pike in the Menagerie) when
> "Enterprise" era crews had phaser pistols?
There were some hints (Devil in the Dark) that phasers were
not widespread outside Star Fleet. I find it easy to believe
that in both Enterprise and TOS eras, industrial security guards
and gangsters were more likely to have cheaper, less-advanced
weapons than elite military organizations.
--
Glenn Holliday holliday [at] acm.org
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| Re: (Enterprise) Laser pistols or slug throwers [message #75189 ] |
Sa, 09 Juli 2005 17:02 |
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Glenn Holliday wrote:
> "David E. Powell" wrote:
>
>>Plus, why would TOS feature some people with older lasers (The
>>dude who hung out with the salt vampire, Pike in the Menagerie) when
>>"Enterprise" era crews had phaser pistols?
>
>
> There were some hints (Devil in the Dark) that phasers were
> not widespread outside Star Fleet. I find it easy to believe
> that in both Enterprise and TOS eras, industrial security guards
> and gangsters were more likely to have cheaper, less-advanced
> weapons than elite military organizations.
>
And _The_Menagerie_ was a pilot made earlier.
--
- Bill
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| Re: (Enterprise) Laser pistols or slug throwers [message #75192 ] |
Sa, 09 Juli 2005 20:07 |
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Glenn Holliday wrote:
>
> "David E. Powell" wrote:
> >
> > Plus, why would TOS feature some people with older lasers (The
> > dude who hung out with the salt vampire, Pike in the Menagerie) when
> > "Enterprise" era crews had phaser pistols?
>
> There were some hints (Devil in the Dark) that phasers were
> not widespread outside Star Fleet.
Of course, that does not explain why state-of-the-art
on the Enterprise at the time of The Menagerie (between
Enterprise and TOS) was the laser cannon. For that, the
only possible explanation is that the purpose of the
Temporal Cold War was to establish that there is no
reliable reality in the Trek universe, so B&B can
explain away any plot inconsistency by appeal to
a change in the timeline.
--
Glenn Holliday holliday [at] acm.org
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| Re: (Enterprise) Laser pistols or slug throwers [message #75193 ] |
Sa, 09 Juli 2005 20:10 |
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"David E. Powell" wrote:
>
> IMO they made a mistake going with phasers instead of the earlier style
> lasers (as seen used in TOS) or slugthrowers.
In a TNG episode, there was a time criminal who was collecting
future technologies to introduce to past time periods. Worf
mentioned when the phaser was invented. What did he say, and
is that established history consistent with Enterprise?
--
Glenn Holliday holliday [at] acm.org
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| Re: (Enterprise) Laser pistols or slug throwers [message #75207 ] |
So, 10 Juli 2005 01:49 |
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On Sat, 9 Jul 2005, Glenn Holliday wrote:
> "David E. Powell" wrote:
> >
> > IMO they made a mistake going with phasers instead of the earlier style
> > lasers (as seen used in TOS) or slugthrowers.
>
> In a TNG episode, there was a time criminal who was collecting
> future technologies to introduce to past time periods. Worf
> mentioned when the phaser was invented. What did he say, and
> is that established history consistent with Enterprise?
Worf says that there were no phasers. But on the other hand, Riker says
that Earth did not have warp drive either in the 20th century, which in
turn runs contrary to what was established in TOS' "Metamorphosis" as well
as ENT and ST:FC.
-Mike
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| Re: (Enterprise) Laser pistols or slug throwers [message #75211 ] |
So, 10 Juli 2005 05:25 |
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It wasn't the inconsistencies that pissed me off, it was the plot stupidity.
With all the hundreds of well thought out stories that have made it into
novel after novel how could any trek show suck as bad as Enterprise with as
promising a premise? Lot's of hard work!
The only good explanation is that there was a dark age between Enterprise
and TOS. The human race nearly went back to muskets before recovering, took
a hundred years to get back to where they started, plus just a few extras.
Then you can have weapons that sure acted like phasars in Enterprise, then
back to something else, then back to phasars. Otherwise you have to assume
that techonological progress is going to slow down a great deal in the
future.
--
Bill
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billcarey/
http://spaces.msn.com/members/redeyesxbl/
"Glenn Holliday" <holliday [at] acm.org> wrote in message
news:42D01273.DF5E3024 [at] acm.org...
> Glenn Holliday wrote:
>>
>> "David E. Powell" wrote:
>> >
>> > Plus, why would TOS feature some people with older lasers (The
>> > dude who hung out with the salt vampire, Pike in the Menagerie) when
>> > "Enterprise" era crews had phaser pistols?
>>
>> There were some hints (Devil in the Dark) that phasers were
>> not widespread outside Star Fleet.
>
> Of course, that does not explain why state-of-the-art
> on the Enterprise at the time of The Menagerie (between
> Enterprise and TOS) was the laser cannon. For that, the
> only possible explanation is that the purpose of the
> Temporal Cold War was to establish that there is no
> reliable reality in the Trek universe, so B&B can
> explain away any plot inconsistency by appeal to
> a change in the timeline.
>
> --
> Glenn Holliday holliday [at] acm.org
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| Re: (Enterprise) Laser pistols or slug throwers [message #75216 ] |
So, 10 Juli 2005 08:20 |
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"Mike Dicenso" <mdicenso [at] seds.org> wrote in message
news:Pine.OSX.4.58.0507091646310.1061 [at] seds.org...
>
> Worf says that there were no phasers. But on the other hand, Riker says
> that Earth did not have warp drive either in the 20th century, which in
> turn runs contrary to what was established in TOS' "Metamorphosis" as well
> as ENT and ST:FC.
> -Mike
We didn't have warp drive in the 20th century...
:0)
--
"Is it a Stockbroker? Is it a Quantity Surveyor? Is it a Church Warden? No!
It's BICYCLE REPAIR MAN!"
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| Re: (Enterprise) Laser pistols or slug throwers [message #77758 ] |
Mo, 11 Juli 2005 20:10 |
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On Sun, 10 Jul 2005, James Allan Kynes wrote:
> "Mike Dicenso" <mdicenso [at] seds.org> wrote in message
> news:Pine.OSX.4.58.0507091646310.1061 [at] seds.org...
> >
> > Worf says that there were no phasers. But on the other hand, Riker says
> > that Earth did not have warp drive either in the 20th century, which in
> > turn runs contrary to what was established in TOS' "Metamorphosis" as well
> > as ENT and ST:FC.
> > -Mike
>
> We didn't have warp drive in the 20th century...
That should have been 22nd century, of course. :-)
-Mike
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| Re: (Enterprise) Laser pistols or slug throwers [message #77775 ] |
Di, 12 Juli 2005 08:22 |
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"Mike Dicenso" <mdicenso [at] seds.org> wrote in message
news:Pine.OSX.4.58.0507111109430.8460 [at] seds.org...
>
>
> On Sun, 10 Jul 2005, James Allan Kynes wrote:
>
> > We didn't have warp drive in the 20th century...
>
>
> That should have been 22nd century, of course. :-)
I know, just had to be anal... :-)
--
"Where did you get your clothes from? The toilet store?"
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| Re: (Enterprise) Laser pistols or slug throwers [message #80425 ] |
Sa, 16 Juli 2005 01:19 |
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In article <5MWdnVJu6MO5CE3fRVn-gQ [at] comcast.com>, "Bill Carey" <notachance [at] yeahright.com> wrote:
>It wasn't the inconsistencies that pissed me off, it was the plot stupidity.
>With all the hundreds of well thought out stories that have made it into
>novel after novel how could any trek show suck as bad as Enterprise with as
>promising a premise? Lot's of hard work!
>
>The only good explanation is that there was a dark age between Enterprise
>and TOS. The human race nearly went back to muskets before recovering, took
>a hundred years to get back to where they started, plus just a few extras.
>Then you can have weapons that sure acted like phasars in Enterprise, then
>back to something else, then back to phasars. Otherwise you have to assume
>that techonological progress is going to slow down a great deal in the
>future.
>
Yup, once the UFP took hold, you had a bunch of left wing left over hippy
pinko commie liberals (and french people) take over and mess up the whole
thing. Sort of like what the UN is now, a bunch of pussies that couldnt tie
their own shoe laces if it killed them. ;p
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| Re: (Enterprise) Laser pistols or slug throwers [message #80426 ] |
Sa, 16 Juli 2005 01:20 |
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In article <Pine.OSX.4.58.0507091646310.1061 [at] seds.org>, Mike Dicenso <mdicenso [at] seds.org> wrote:
>
>
>On Sat, 9 Jul 2005, Glenn Holliday wrote:
>
>> "David E. Powell" wrote:
>> >
>> > IMO they made a mistake going with phasers instead of the earlier style
>> > lasers (as seen used in TOS) or slugthrowers.
>>
>> In a TNG episode, there was a time criminal who was collecting
>> future technologies to introduce to past time periods. Worf
>> mentioned when the phaser was invented. What did he say, and
>> is that established history consistent with Enterprise?
>
>
>Worf says that there were no phasers. But on the other hand, Riker says
>that Earth did not have warp drive either in the 20th century, which in
>turn runs contrary to what was established in TOS' "Metamorphosis" as well
>as ENT and ST:FC.
>-Mike
ST:FC takes place in the 21st century.
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| Re: (Enterprise) Laser pistols or slug throwers [message #80432 ] |
Sa, 16 Juli 2005 03:06 |
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"whodothere" <whodothere [at] whocares.com> wrote in message
news:db9gbt$6l7$1 [at] news.xmission.com...
> Yup, once the UFP took hold, you had a bunch of left wing left over hippy
> pinko commie liberals (and french people) take over and mess up the whole
> thing. Sort of like what the UN is now, a bunch of pussies that couldnt
> tie
> their own shoe laces if it killed them. ;p
....or a group of hypocritical theocratic fascist warmongering
head-up-their-rear-but-we-pray-every-night! conservatives who couldn't
tolerate all that diversity and nuked every planet into dust rather than
allow others to actually be, you know, //different//. Kind of like certain
governments now - too busy patting themselves on the back with their payola
schemes to tie their own shoe laces ;p
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| Re: (Enterprise) Laser pistols or slug throwers [message #83180 ] |
Di, 19 Juli 2005 19:49 |
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On Fri, 15 Jul 2005, whodothere wrote:
> In article <Pine.OSX.4.58.0507091646310.1061 [at] seds.org>, Mike Dicenso <mdicenso [at] seds.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> >On Sat, 9 Jul 2005, Glenn Holliday wrote:
> >
> >> "David E. Powell" wrote:
> >> >
> >> > IMO they made a mistake going with phasers instead of the earlier style
> >> > lasers (as seen used in TOS) or slugthrowers.
> >>
> >> In a TNG episode, there was a time criminal who was collecting
> >> future technologies to introduce to past time periods. Worf
> >> mentioned when the phaser was invented. What did he say, and
> >> is that established history consistent with Enterprise?
> >
> >
> >Worf says that there were no phasers. But on the other hand, Riker says
> >that Earth did not have warp drive either in the 20th century, which in
> >turn runs contrary to what was established in TOS' "Metamorphosis" as well
> >as ENT and ST:FC.
> >-Mike
> ST:FC takes place in the 21st century.
The typo was already corrected. It should have read "22nd century", not
"20th". So the point still stands.
-Mike
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| Re: (Enterprise) Laser pistols or slug throwers [message #108909 ] |
Di, 16 August 2005 10:54 |
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It might have been cool to have close range stun pistols, using shock
like tasers.. but not reliable past close range and possibly not as
reliable on some alien species. In addition they could have some kind
of laser, plasma bolt/beam shooter, or conventional gun. Making the
choice harder given situation, and the officers have to pick one as the
default weapon given circumstance....
Also maybe those net guns that they are working on now?
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