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Fantasy » alt.fan.harry-potter » House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers
House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #70257] Mi, 29 Juni 2005 04:30
Tim Bruening  
House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers:

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Hermione leaves hats all over Gryffindor Tower, apparently thinking that
the house elves will pick them up and thus be freed.

I don't know if that would work. On the one hand, Hermione is not the
Headmaster of Hogwarts, so I doubted that she would have the authority
to free house elves by giving the house elves clothes.

On the other hand, she is a resident of Hogwarts for over 9 months a
year, so might after all be able to free Hogwarts house elves.

What kinds of people have the authority to free house elves: Just the
home owners, or all residents of the household?

What would a house elf do if he saw someone's clothes on the floor?

I was amused by Dobby taking all the hats, and the other elves no longer
cleaning the Gryffindor tower because they feel insulted by the hats.

I was surprised that Harry Potter didn't ask Dobby to rely messages to
Sirius. After all, I saw Dobby disappear from the Hogwarts infirmary
with my own two eyes in the movie, and I assumed that he would be able
to get back to the Malfoy house in a very short period of time (else he
wouldn't risk leaving the Malfoy house for Hogwarts in the first place,
given his fear of Lucius discovering his absense), so I believe that
Dobby can Disapperate from Hogwarts in spite of the spells that prevent
humans from doing so. Therefore, Dobby could deliver messages between
Harry and Sirius with a minimum of delay.

IMHO, Dumbledore should recruit the Hogwarts elves into his army, since
a house elf can knock a wizard backwards, Apperate, perform Hover
Charms, teleport food, and drag people off against their will.

Dobby wanted freedom because Lucius treated him very badly. I assume
that the Hogwarts elves don't want freedom because they are treated
kindly. I suspect that other DE house elves are treated as badly as
Dobby was, so would desire freedom. I suggest that Hermione have Dobby
talk to the DE elves about freedom.
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #70273 ] Mi, 29 Juni 2005 06:34
Impmon  
On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:30:44 -0700, Tim Bruening
<tsbrueni [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:

>What kinds of people have the authority to free house elves: Just the
>home owners, or all residents of the household?

My understanding was only the owner can free the elves. In book 2,
Harry had to get Malfoy to give the sock to Dobby for the freedom and
that implies if you don't own the elf, you can't set them free by
giving them your clothes. The founder have passed away long ago so
it's hard to tell who owns the Hogswart elves now.

>What would a house elf do if he saw someone's clothes on the floor?

Assume they are dirty clothes left there to be cleaned, folded, and
put away. My understinding was that you have to *give* the clothes
for the freedom to count. Hermione was "giving" the clothes but other
clothes are just left around to be cleaned so it is not "giving" to
elves at all.

>I was amused by Dobby taking all the hats, and the other elves no longer
>cleaning the Gryffindor tower because they feel insulted by the hats.

Me too. Looks like Hermione owes Harry a big one. If Harry hadn't
freed Dobby, no one would be cleaning the house at all.

>I was surprised that Harry Potter didn't ask Dobby to rely messages to
>Sirius. After all, I saw Dobby disappear from the Hogwarts infirmary
>with my own two eyes in the movie,
[snip]

and in the book too. I think Harry simply forgot about Dobby in that
moment or simply thought owls (book 4) and fireplaces were easier.
/roll eyes. Beside Snape in book 5, Harry could have sent discreetly
Dobby to someone within the Order to check for Sirius rather than
trying to break in Umbridge's office. I don't know if Dobby can find
the house protected by secret keeper or not.

>IMHO, Dumbledore should recruit the Hogwarts elves into his army, since
>a house elf can knock a wizard backwards, Apperate, perform Hover
>Charms, teleport food, and drag people off against their will.

That can still happen in either book 6 or 7. There's some fanfics on
this as well.

>Dobby wanted freedom because Lucius treated him very badly. I assume
>that the Hogwarts elves don't want freedom because they are treated
>kindly. I suspect that other DE house elves are treated as badly as
>Dobby was, so would desire freedom. I suggest that Hermione have Dobby
>talk to the DE elves about freedom.

I would think so. Elves that are treated fairly like the Hogswart
would probably prefer to be slaves but other would want freedom. I
wonder if someone could set Hermione to DE's elves
--
When you hear the toilet flush, and hear the words "uh oh", it's already
too late. - by anonymous Mother in Austin, TX
To reply, replace digi.mon with phreaker.net
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #70759 ] Mi, 29 Juni 2005 16:52
Mikoangelo  
Impmon wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:30:44 -0700, Tim Bruening
> <tsbrueni [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>
> >What kinds of people have the authority to free house elves: Just the
> >home owners, or all residents of the household?
>
> [deletia]
>
> The founder have passed away long ago so
> it's hard to tell who owns the Hogswart elves now.

My impression is that it would be DD.
I'm under the impression, that house elves have a life rythm relatively
close to humans. And since Dobby said, that his family has been serving
the Malfoy family for a very long time (I'm a little rusty in the
quotes), this would mean that the ownership is passed on through the
family, which in the school would mean to the next headmaster.
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #70768 ] Mi, 29 Juni 2005 20:06
Alex Clark  
Tim Bruening wrote:
> House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers:
>
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> Hermione leaves hats all over Gryffindor Tower, apparently thinking that
> the house elves will pick them up and thus be freed.
>
> I don't know if that would work. On the one hand, Hermione is not the
> Headmaster of Hogwarts, so I doubted that she would have the authority
> to free house elves by giving the house elves clothes.
>
> On the other hand, she is a resident of Hogwarts for over 9 months a
> year, so might after all be able to free Hogwarts house elves.

In "The Centaur and the Sneak", Dobby apparently responds to orders
from Harry. I think that this is partly because he had some freedom to
choose his master, and partly because in that situation neither party
(Harry or Umbridge) was really the boss, who was Dumbledore.

.. . .
> I was surprised that Harry Potter didn't ask Dobby to rely messages to
> Sirius. After all, I saw Dobby disappear from the Hogwarts infirmary

A clever plan, though there are two reasons not to trust it. First,
nobody can get to Sirius unless Dumbledore has told them where to go,
and I doubt that Dobby is in on the secret. Second, the Headmaster's
office, and the portraits, still know that Dumbles is the Headmaster,
but do the house-elves know this? The office might have Dumbledore's
own spells on it to keep Umbridge out, or it might have spells that
were cast before the Ministry of Magic was started, and either way it
would certainly not recognize a Ministry-appointed Headmaster. But the
house-elves have no such reason to disown Umbridge. So Harry might ask
Dobby to take a message, and instead find that Dobby is compelled to
tell tales to Umbridge.

> with my own two eyes in the movie, and I assumed that he would be able
> to get back to the Malfoy house in a very short period of time (else he
> wouldn't risk leaving the Malfoy house for Hogwarts in the first place,
> given his fear of Lucius discovering his absense), so I believe that
> Dobby can Disapperate from Hogwarts in spite of the spells that prevent
> humans from doing so. . . .

One day you will read _Hogwarts, a History_, and maybe that will remind
you that you can't Apparate or Disapparate at Hogwarts. :-) Apparation
is a spell used by wizards, who are human. House-elves have some other
way of getting around, and they apparently don't use that spell.

> Dobby wanted freedom because Lucius treated him very badly. I assume
> that the Hogwarts elves don't want freedom because they are treated
> kindly. I suspect that other DE house elves are treated as badly as
> Dobby was, so would desire freedom. I suggest that Hermione have Dobby
> talk to the DE elves about freedom.

Good idea. Possibly better idea: take a leaf from Harry's book, and
have Dobby lurk in those houses to trick the Death Eaters into
accidentally giving clothes.

--
Alex Clark

Dim lad motor lover (an anagram rejected by Tom Riddle)
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #70772 ] Mi, 29 Juni 2005 21:29
Jan van Aalderen  
Impmon wrote:

>
> and in the book too. I think Harry simply forgot about Dobby in that
> moment or simply thought owls (book 4) and fireplaces were easier.
> /roll eyes. Beside Snape in book 5, Harry could have sent discreetly
> Dobby to someone within the Order to check for Sirius rather than
> trying to break in Umbridge's office. I don't know if Dobby can find
> the house protected by secret keeper or not.

Harry couldn't use Dobby as messenger, since U. would have been able to
extract any msgs sent from Dobby once she, as head mistress, had a
suspicion Dobby had delivered any.

...................

--
Vriendelijke groet,
Jan van Aalderen, Amstelveen
*----------------------------------------------------------- --*
Wie mijn raad volgt, doet zulks geheel op eigen risico!
Reactie op usenetpostjes in de groep. Email zie ik niet.
*----------------------------------------------------------- --*
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #70785 ] Do, 30 Juni 2005 04:46
richard e white  
Impmon wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:30:44 -0700, Tim Bruening
> <tsbrueni [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>
> >What kinds of people have the authority to free house elves: Just the
> >home owners, or all residents of the household?
>
> My understanding was only the owner can free the elves. In book 2,
> Harry had to get Malfoy to give the sock to Dobby for the freedom and
> that implies if you don't own the elf, you can't set them free by
> giving them your clothes. The founder have passed away long ago so
> it's hard to tell who owns the Hogswart elves now.

I think in cases of places like hogwarts it is the leagle head of the school
or place. I think DD was the one picked by the hogwarts governers to run the
school so my guess is that it was DD.
At the minstery I not sure weather it would be fudge or if they have some one
to run the house elfs. Now that I think about it I think some one in
cleaning and mantanece would control the house elves there and fudge would be
at the top of the chain of command until he gets removed one way or the
other.

>
> >What would a house elf do if he saw someone's clothes on the floor?

Pick them up and put them in the hampper. the old stories that JKR got the
house elfs from go over this bit. They have to be given. In book 5 the fake
mad eye had dobby get an old cloak and take it away to be cleaned. this is
when the fake mad eye had a conversation with another teacher where the hint
about the gilly weed was mentioned in frount of dobby.
But the stories are also full of accadental freeing of elves more or less
like Dobby. other then I don't remember some one helping to set up the
situwation but it still fits most of the foklore on the subject.

>
> Assume they are dirty clothes left there to be cleaned, folded, and
> put away. My understinding was that you have to *give* the clothes
> for the freedom to count. Hermione was "giving" the clothes but other
> clothes are just left around to be cleaned so it is not "giving" to
> elves at all.

But it sure did insult them.

>
>
> >I was amused by Dobby taking all the hats, and the other elves no longer
> >cleaning the Gryffindor tower because they feel insulted by the hats.
>
> Me too. Looks like Hermione owes Harry a big one. If Harry hadn't
> freed Dobby, no one would be cleaning the house at all.

I am not sure about that as HG got the whole start of info on house elves
from harry. It may have taken her a few more years to find out about them.
I wounder if it had had happend who would have wound up doing the job?
Filch?

>
> >I was surprised that Harry Potter didn't ask Dobby to rely messages to
> >Sirius. After all, I saw Dobby disappear from the Hogwarts infirmary
> >with my own two eyes in the movie,
> [snip]
>
> and in the book too. I think Harry simply forgot about Dobby in that
> moment or simply thought owls (book 4) and fireplaces were easier.
> /roll eyes. Beside Snape in book 5, Harry could have sent discreetly
> Dobby to someone within the Order to check for Sirius rather than
> trying to break in Umbridge's office. I don't know if Dobby can find
> the house protected by secret keeper or not.

I would bet against it. But Dobby should have been able to find mad eye,
Lupin or some one else. But Dobby may have been under magical servalaince.

>
> >IMHO, Dumbledore should recruit the Hogwarts elves into his army, since
> >a house elf can knock a wizard backwards, Apperate, perform Hover
> >Charms, teleport food, and drag people off against their will.
>
> That can still happen in either book 6 or 7. There's some fanfics on
> this as well.

I don't think DD would do that unless they asked him if they could help. I
don't think he will ask them as they would join because they would think it
is there duty. So from DD's point of view I don't think that would be there
desistion.

>
> >Dobby wanted freedom because Lucius treated him very badly. I assume
> >that the Hogwarts elves don't want freedom because they are treated
> >kindly. I suspect that other DE house elves are treated as badly as
> >Dobby was, so would desire freedom. I suggest that Hermione have Dobby
> >talk to the DE elves about freedom.

That sounds like a good way to get Dobby killed. I would guess that most of
the DE's have a spell on there house elfs to know what they are up to. then
again they may have been told to tell there masters who comes around. either
way I don't think Dobby would live long if he started to do that.

>
>
> I would think so. Elves that are treated fairly like the Hogswart
> would probably prefer to be slaves but other would want freedom. I
> wonder if someone could set Hermione to DE's elves

--
Richard The Blind Typer
Lets Hear It For Talking Computers.
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #70786 ] Do, 30 Juni 2005 04:56
richard e white  
Jan van Aalderen wrote:

> Impmon wrote:
>
> >
> > and in the book too. I think Harry simply forgot about Dobby in that
> > moment or simply thought owls (book 4) and fireplaces were easier.
> > /roll eyes. Beside Snape in book 5, Harry could have sent discreetly
> > Dobby to someone within the Order to check for Sirius rather than
> > trying to break in Umbridge's office. I don't know if Dobby can find
> > the house protected by secret keeper or not.
>
> Harry couldn't use Dobby as messenger, since U. would have been able to
> extract any msgs sent from Dobby once she, as head mistress, had a
> suspicion Dobby had delivered any.
>
> ..................
>
> --
> Vriendelijke groet,
> Jan van Aalderen, Amstelveen
> *----------------------------------------------------------- --*
> Wie mijn raad volgt, doet zulks geheel op eigen risico!
> Reactie op usenetpostjes in de groep. Email zie ik niet.
> *----------------------------------------------------------- --*

That is not so clear. The magic that binds the house elfs may not have
agreed with the minstery. Many spells at the school seam to ignore her
rule. The house elfs may only recunize only headmaster picked in the way
the schools rules said. witch was the goveners of hogwarts. I still
wounder if fudge got the govners to elect the toad if the head masters door
would open.

--
Richard The Blind Typer
Lets Hear It For Talking Computers.
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #71239 ] Fr, 01 Juli 2005 02:30
Tim Bruening  
Mikoangelo wrote:

> Impmon wrote:
> > On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:30:44 -0700, Tim Bruening
> > <tsbrueni [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> >
> > >What kinds of people have the authority to free house elves: Just the
> > >home owners, or all residents of the household?
> >
> > [deletia]
> >
> > The founder have passed away long ago so
> > it's hard to tell who owns the Hogswart elves now.
>
> My impression is that it would be DD.
> I'm under the impression, that house elves have a life rythm relatively
> close to humans. And since Dobby said, that his family has been serving
> the Malfoy family for a very long time (I'm a little rusty in the
> quotes), this would mean that the ownership is passed on through the
> family, which in the school would mean to the next headmaster.

How do house elves reproduce?
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #72301 ] Sa, 02 Juli 2005 03:10
Tuxedo George  
On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 17:30:38 -0700, Tim Bruening
<tsbrueni [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:

>
>
> Mikoangelo wrote:
>
> > Impmon wrote:
> > > On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:30:44 -0700, Tim Bruening
> > > <tsbrueni [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> > >
> > > >What kinds of people have the authority to free house elves: Just the
> > > >home owners, or all residents of the household?
> > >
> > > [deletia]
> > >
> > > The founder have passed away long ago so
> > > it's hard to tell who owns the Hogswart elves now.
> >
> > My impression is that it would be DD.
> > I'm under the impression, that house elves have a life rythm relatively
> > close to humans. And since Dobby said, that his family has been serving
> > the Malfoy family for a very long time (I'm a little rusty in the
> > quotes), this would mean that the ownership is passed on through the
> > family, which in the school would mean to the next headmaster.
>
> How do house elves reproduce?

It starts out innocently enough: they begin by playing "House."

Then they start to stare at each other on the Stairs. After they get
acquainted that way, they take it outdoors and begin some
"Courtyard-ship." This is followed in convoluted sequences by
Antique-dating, knife-fork-and-Spooning, and some sneaky and
squeaky hole-and-corner activities that do *NOT* involve the use
of clothes -- and are inappropriate to dwell on much here.
When they lose count of how many of them there are in the house,
they soon learn the reason.
--
"tuxgeo" of the Jungle -- /the moonbeam knave/
posting from "earthlink" on the "net"
o_!_o "From:" address munged for the usual reasons
/O\ "Dare to be Dakedo." (However, . . .)
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #72459 ] So, 03 Juli 2005 05:44
richard e white  
Tim Bruening wrote:

> Mikoangelo wrote:
>
> > Impmon wrote:
> > > On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:30:44 -0700, Tim Bruening
> > > <tsbrueni [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> > >
> > > >What kinds of people have the authority to free house elves: Just the
> > > >home owners, or all residents of the household?
> > >
> > > [deletia]
> > >
> > > The founder have passed away long ago so
> > > it's hard to tell who owns the Hogswart elves now.
> >
> > My impression is that it would be DD.
> > I'm under the impression, that house elves have a life rythm relatively
> > close to humans. And since Dobby said, that his family has been serving
> > the Malfoy family for a very long time (I'm a little rusty in the
> > quotes), this would mean that the ownership is passed on through the
> > family, which in the school would mean to the next headmaster.
>
> How do house elves reproduce?

More or less in the normal way. But they seam to meet other house elfs when
they go out
to do odd jobs.

--
Richard The Blind Typer
Lets Hear It For Talking Computers.
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #72494 ] So, 03 Juli 2005 11:50
Toon  
On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 20:44:10 -0700, richard e white <chiphead [at] cox.net>
wrote:

>Tim Bruening wrote:
>
>> Mikoangelo wrote:
>>
>> > Impmon wrote:
>> > > On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:30:44 -0700, Tim Bruening
>> > > <tsbrueni [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >What kinds of people have the authority to free house elves: Just the
>> > > >home owners, or all residents of the household?
>> > >
>> > > [deletia]
>> > >
>> > > The founder have passed away long ago so
>> > > it's hard to tell who owns the Hogswart elves now.
>> >
>> > My impression is that it would be DD.
>> > I'm under the impression, that house elves have a life rythm relatively
>> > close to humans. And since Dobby said, that his family has been serving
>> > the Malfoy family for a very long time (I'm a little rusty in the
>> > quotes), this would mean that the ownership is passed on through the
>> > family, which in the school would mean to the next headmaster.
>>
>> How do house elves reproduce?
>
>More or less in the normal way. But they seam to meet other house elfs when
>they go out
>to do odd jobs.

Why not? Koko the sign language, kitty loving gorilla video dated
once.
House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #128553 ] Do, 08 September 2005 10:41
Tim Bruening  
House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers:

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Hermione leaves hats all over Gryffindor Tower, apparently thinking that
the house elves will pick them up and thus be freed.

I don't know if that would work. On the one hand, Hermione is not the
Headmaster of Hogwarts, so I doubted that she would have the authority
to free house elves by giving the house elves clothes.

On the other hand, she is a resident of Hogwarts for over 9 months a
year, so might after all be able to free Hogwarts house elves.

What kinds of people have the authority to free house elves: Just the
home owners, or all residents of the household?

What would a house elf do if he saw someone's clothes on the floor?

I was amused by Dobby taking all the hats, and the other elves no longer
cleaning the Gryffindor tower because they feel insulted by the hats.

I was surprised that Harry Potter didn't ask Dobby to rely messages to
Sirius. After all, I saw Dobby disappear from the Hogwarts infirmary
with my own two eyes in the movie, and I assumed that he would be able
to get back to the Malfoy house in a very short period of time (else he
wouldn't risk leaving the Malfoy house for Hogwarts in the first place,
given his fear of Lucius discovering his absense), so I believe that
Dobby can Disapperate from Hogwarts in spite of the spells that prevent
humans from doing so. Therefore, Dobby could deliver messages between
Harry and Sirius with a minimum of delay.

IMHO, Dumbledore should recruit the Hogwarts elves into his army, since
a house elf can knock a wizard backwards, Apperate, perform Hover
Charms, teleport food, and drag people off against their will.

Dobby wanted freedom because Lucius treated him very badly. I assume
that the Hogwarts elves don't want freedom because they are treated
kindly. I suspect that other DE house elves are treated as badly as
Dobby was, so would desire freedom. I suggest that Hermione have Dobby
talk to the DE elves about freedom.
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #281989 ] Do, 15 Juni 2006 13:36
Tim Bruening  
Mikoangelo wrote:

> Impmon wrote:
> > On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:30:44 -0700, Tim Bruening
> > <tsbrueni [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> >
> > >What kinds of people have the authority to free house elves: Just the
> > >home owners, or all residents of the household?
> >
> > [deletia]
> >
> > The founder have passed away long ago so
> > it's hard to tell who owns the Hogswart elves now.
>
> My impression is that it would be DD.
> I'm under the impression, that house elves have a life rythm relatively
> close to humans. And since Dobby said, that his family has been serving
> the Malfoy family for a very long time (I'm a little rusty in the
> quotes), this would mean that the ownership is passed on through the
> family, which in the school would mean to the next headmaster.

How do house elves reproduce?
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #281996 ] Do, 15 Juni 2006 20:00
GZICARD  
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers

Group: alt.fan.harry-potter Date: Thu, Jun 15, 2006, 4:36am (EDT-3)
From: tsbrueni [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us (Tim=A0Bruening)
Mikoangelo wrote:
Impmon wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:30:44 -0700, Tim Bruening
<tsbrueni [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
What kinds of people have the authority to free house elves: Just the
home owners, or all residents of the household?
[deletia]
The founder have passed away long ago so it's hard to tell who owns the
Hogswart elves now.
My impression is that it would be DD.
I'm under the impression, that house elves have a life rythm relatively
close to humans. And since Dobby said, that his family has been serving
the Malfoy family for a very long time (I'm a little rusty in the
quotes), this would mean that the ownership is passed on through the
family, which in the school would mean to the next headmaster.
How do house elves reproduce?
Probably the same way we humans do. After all, there are female house
elves.
Hermione: "At least the Gryffindor team got in on talent. No one had to
buy their way in."
Malfoy: "No one asked your opinion, you filthy little mudblood."
Ron: "You'll pay for that one, Malfoy! Eat slugs!"
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #282000 ] Do, 15 Juni 2006 21:01
gep  
How do house elves reproduce?

My guess is Magically???





"Tim Bruening" <tsbrueni [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
news:4491465A.2F6FF031 [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us...
>
>
> Mikoangelo wrote:
>
>> Impmon wrote:
>> > On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:30:44 -0700, Tim Bruening
>> > <tsbrueni [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>> >
>> > >What kinds of people have the authority to free house elves: Just the
>> > >home owners, or all residents of the household?
>> >
>> > [deletia]
>> >
>> > The founder have passed away long ago so
>> > it's hard to tell who owns the Hogswart elves now.
>>
>> My impression is that it would be DD.
>> I'm under the impression, that house elves have a life rythm relatively
>> close to humans. And since Dobby said, that his family has been serving
>> the Malfoy family for a very long time (I'm a little rusty in the
>> quotes), this would mean that the ownership is passed on through the
>> family, which in the school would mean to the next headmaster.
>
> How do house elves reproduce?
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #282012 ] Fr, 16 Juni 2006 01:28
Markku Uttula  
Tim Bruening wrote:
> How do house elves reproduce?

You see, there is this male house-elf and a female house-elf that like
each other very much. They fall in love, decide to start a family. I
have let myself been told that sex is still considered the best option
for procreation.

--
Markku Uttula
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #282013 ] Fr, 16 Juni 2006 02:04
mystic  
Markku Uttula wrote:
> Tim Bruening wrote:
>
>>How do house elves reproduce?
>
>
> You see, there is this male house-elf and a female house-elf that like
> each other very much. They fall in love, decide to start a family. I
> have let myself been told that sex is still considered the best option
> for procreation.
>
Sex and lots of butterbeer.
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #282018 ] Fr, 16 Juni 2006 02:17
Tim Bruening  
gep wrote:

> How do house elves reproduce?
>
> My guess is Magically???

I was figuring that they would make love the way humans do, but wondered how
the House Elves would meet for sex when they have to stay in their houses to
serve their masters.
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #282020 ] Fr, 16 Juni 2006 02:37
Tim Bruening  
Markku Uttula wrote:

> Tim Bruening wrote:
> > How do house elves reproduce?
>
> You see, there is this male house-elf and a female house-elf that like
> each other very much. They fall in love, decide to start a family. I
> have let myself been told that sex is still considered the best option
> for procreation.

How do they meet in the first place? How do they get out of their
respective houses without angering their masters?
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #282029 ] Fr, 16 Juni 2006 06:43
Mauro  
"Tim Bruening" <tsbrueni [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
news:4491FD3B.65E400F [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us...
>
>
> Markku Uttula wrote:
>
> > Tim Bruening wrote:
> > > How do house elves reproduce?
> >
> > You see, there is this male house-elf and a female house-elf that like
> > each other very much. They fall in love, decide to start a family. I
> > have let myself been told that sex is still considered the best option
> > for procreation.
>
> How do they meet in the first place? How do they get out of their
> respective houses without angering their masters?
>

Just because Dobby is the only house elf we see that was owned by the Malfoy
family doesn't mean that he was the only one. In the USA when there was
slavery, slaveowners rarely owned only one slave. Perhaps Kreacher being
the only house elf at 12 Grimauld Place is the exception rather than the
rule, and multiple house elves such as at Hogwarts is more typical. Then
the problem of how the meet in the first place goes away.
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #282037 ] Fr, 16 Juni 2006 07:03
Toon  
On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:01:12 -0400, "gep" <gepreston [at] optonline.net>
wrote:

>How do house elves reproduce?
>
>My guess is Magically???

Winky needs to stop getting drunk, or else Kreacher or such an elf
will take advantage of her.
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #282039 ] Fr, 16 Juni 2006 07:04
DUH  
Toon wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:01:12 -0400, "gep" <gepreston [at] optonline.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>How do house elves reproduce?
>>
>>My guess is Magically???
>
>
> Winky needs to stop getting drunk, or else Kreacher or such an elf
> will take advantage of her.

you know, if she's that short, has pistol grip ears, and a flat spot on
her head where I can set my butterbeer, I might think about it.

--
-------------------------
"Work like no one is watching,
Dance like you've never been hurt, and
Love like you don't need the money"

\
=8{B
\
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #282066 ] Fr, 16 Juni 2006 17:53
flip+  
Tim Bruening <tsbrueni [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> writes:
>How do they meet in the first place? How do they get out of their
>respective houses without angering their masters?
If the malfoys are any indication of the typical H.E. owner, they
probably breed them through arranged meetings... like horses or pets.

I'd like to think that that isn't the case, and that they meet
someplace when the masters are not needing their services.
Perhaps there is a signal (bell pull) in the house that signals the
elf who then apparates (via the house elf equivalent which works at
hogwarts. ;) back to the house.

--
May no harm befall you,
flip
Ich habe keine Ahnung was das bedeutet, oder vielleicht doch?
In my email replace SeeEmmYou.EeeDeeYou with CMU.EDU
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #282143 ] Sa, 17 Juni 2006 16:53
karnak17  
Philip Lewis wrote:
> Tim Bruening <tsbrueni [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> writes:
> >How do they meet in the first place? How do they get out of their
> >respective houses without angering their masters?
> If the malfoys are any indication of the typical H.E. owner, they
> probably breed them through arranged meetings... like horses or pets.

It would likely be something along the lines of an arranged marriage.
If a House Elf had evenings or afternoons off, such as domestics used
to, they could nip around to another Wizarding establishment and hang
out in the kitchen during breaks, discussing how wonderful their
respective Masters were, and what joy it was to serve them.

As with American slavery, it might be that the Head Servant might go to
the Master and suggest that two slaves were fond of eachother, Master
One would then suggest it to Master Two, and the match would be agreed
upon by all parties. Of course if they both belonged to the same
House, it would be a simple matter of asking for consent and getting
it.

I wonder if a married pair -- or "married pair" (I doubt they would be
granted legal marriage) -- would live together in the same House. My
feeling is that House Elf magic would make buying and sellling slaves,
or transferring them from one owner to another, a bit more complicated
than it would be for a human slave. So each elf might remain the
property of his/her own master.

In HUCK FINN, Jim's wife and children belonged to a different owner
than Jim did. I got the impression that she had a cabin of her own
(her masters), and that when he was finished his duties at the Widow
Douglas's, that he went home to her.

> I'd like to think that that isn't the case, and that they meet
> someplace when the masters are not needing their services.
> Perhaps there is a signal (bell pull) in the house that signals the
> elf who then apparates (via the house elf equivalent which works at
> hogwarts. ;) back to the house.

I think that owners would in general have an interest in who their
slaves got involved with, and would want to know. They would want
"good breeding stock" as mates for their female house elves (Kreacher
would not be acceptable, for example). And they probably wouldn't want
their elves taking up with the elves of their political enemies or
business rivals.

Therefore, House Elves would probably ask consent to engage in
courtship.

In American slavery, purely arranged marriages, purely for "breeding"
purposes, did occur. In one of Cynthia Taylor's books there was such a
couple, who deeply loved eachother, but whose marriage had originally
been contracted under slavery purely because both were so physically
strong, so that they could produce strong children. I think (I hope)
that this was not the usual thing.
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #282144 ] Sa, 17 Juni 2006 16:59
karnak17  
Mauro wrote:
> "Tim Bruening" <tsbrueni [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
> news:4491FD3B.65E400F [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us...
> >
> >
> > Markku Uttula wrote:
> >
> > > Tim Bruening wrote:
> > > > How do house elves reproduce?
> > >
> > > You see, there is this male house-elf and a female house-elf that like
> > > each other very much. They fall in love, decide to start a family. I
> > > have let myself been told that sex is still considered the best option
> > > for procreation.
> >
> > How do they meet in the first place? How do they get out of their
> > respective houses without angering their masters?
> >
>
> Just because Dobby is the only house elf we see that was owned by the Malfoy
> family doesn't mean that he was the only one. In the USA when there was
> slavery, slaveowners rarely owned only one slave. Perhaps Kreacher being
> the only house elf at 12 Grimauld Place is the exception rather than the
> rule, and multiple house elves such as at Hogwarts is more typical. Then
> the problem of how the meet in the first place goes away.

Well, Kreacher wasn't the only one. Those were his relatives on the
walls. He was the last of his line, as Sirius was the last of the
Blacks.

As to the problem of their meeting, that doesn't go away. Unless
Kreacher's relatives got out of the House ot mix and mingle, then their
options would either be incest, or arranged marriages with House Elves
from friendly families, which would probably still involve a lot of
inbreeding.
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #282177 ] So, 18 Juni 2006 09:49
Toon  
On 17 Jun 2006 07:59:13 -0700, "Karnak17" <karnak17 [at] cs.com> wrote:

>
>As to the problem of their meeting, that doesn't go away. Unless
>Kreacher's relatives got out of the House ot mix and mingle, then their
>options would either be incest, or arranged marriages with House Elves
>from friendly families, which would probably still involve a lot of
>inbreeding.

Maybe inbreeding isn't a problem for elves. We know it is for
mammals. But are elves even mammals, or something else?
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #282245 ] Mo, 19 Juni 2006 18:56
Mauro  
"Toon" <toon [at] toon.com> wrote in message
news:u91a92921ugu21ov6196getse35iviq2ha [at] 4ax.com...
> On 17 Jun 2006 07:59:13 -0700, "Karnak17" <karnak17 [at] cs.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >As to the problem of their meeting, that doesn't go away. Unless
> >Kreacher's relatives got out of the House ot mix and mingle, then their
> >options would either be incest, or arranged marriages with House Elves
> >from friendly families, which would probably still involve a lot of
> >inbreeding.
>
> Maybe inbreeding isn't a problem for elves. We know it is for
> mammals. But are elves even mammals, or something else?

House-elves are considered "magical creatures," are they not?

Biodiversity through magical DNA! I like it.
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #282405 ] Fr, 23 Juni 2006 11:09
Tim Bruening  
Mauro wrote:

> "Toon" <toon [at] toon.com> wrote in message
> news:u91a92921ugu21ov6196getse35iviq2ha [at] 4ax.com...
> > On 17 Jun 2006 07:59:13 -0700, "Karnak17" <karnak17 [at] cs.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >As to the problem of their meeting, that doesn't go away. Unless
> > >Kreacher's relatives got out of the House ot mix and mingle, then their
> > >options would either be incest, or arranged marriages with House Elves
> > >from friendly families, which would probably still involve a lot of
> > >inbreeding.
> >
> > Maybe inbreeding isn't a problem for elves. We know it is for
> > mammals. But are elves even mammals, or something else?
>
> House-elves are considered "magical creatures," are they not?
>
> Biodiversity through magical DNA! I like it.

Can House-elves breed with humans?
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #290785 ] Mo, 26 Juni 2006 02:42
ah  
Tim Bruening wrote:
>
> Mauro wrote:
>
>> "Toon" <toon [at] toon.com> wrote in message
>> news:u91a92921ugu21ov6196getse35iviq2ha [at] 4ax.com...
>> > On 17 Jun 2006 07:59:13 -0700, "Karnak17" <karnak17 [at] cs.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > >As to the problem of their meeting, that doesn't go away. Unless
>> > >Kreacher's relatives got out of the House ot mix and mingle, then their
>> > >options would either be incest, or arranged marriages with House Elves
>> > >from friendly families, which would probably still involve a lot of
>> > >inbreeding.
>> >
>> > Maybe inbreeding isn't a problem for elves. We know it is for
>> > mammals. But are elves even mammals, or something else?
>>
>> House-elves are considered "magical creatures," are they not?
>>
>> Biodiversity through magical DNA! I like it.
>
> Can House-elves breed with humans?

No.
--
ah
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #290786 ] Mo, 26 Juni 2006 04:42
DUH  
ah wrote:
> Tim Bruening wrote:
>
>>Mauro wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Toon" <toon [at] toon.com> wrote in message
>>>news:u91a92921ugu21ov6196getse35iviq2ha [at] 4ax.com...
>>>
>>>>On 17 Jun 2006 07:59:13 -0700, "Karnak17" <karnak17 [at] cs.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>As to the problem of their meeting, that doesn't go away. Unless
>>>>>Kreacher's relatives got out of the House ot mix and mingle, then their
>>>>>options would either be incest, or arranged marriages with House Elves
>>>>
>>>>>from friendly families, which would probably still involve a lot of
>>>>
>>>>>inbreeding.
>>>>
>>>>Maybe inbreeding isn't a problem for elves. We know it is for
>>>>mammals. But are elves even mammals, or something else?
>>>
>>>House-elves are considered "magical creatures," are they not?
>>>
>>>Biodiversity through magical DNA! I like it.
>>
>>Can House-elves breed with humans?
>
>
> No.

Prove it.

--
-------------------------
"Work like no one is watching,
Dance like you've never been hurt, and
Love like you don't need the money"

\
=8{B
\
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #290874 ] Mo, 26 Juni 2006 12:35
ah  
duh wrote:
> ah wrote:
>> Tim Bruening wrote:
>>
>>>Mauro wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Toon" <toon [at] toon.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:u91a92921ugu21ov6196getse35iviq2ha [at] 4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>>>On 17 Jun 2006 07:59:13 -0700, "Karnak17" <karnak17 [at] cs.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>As to the problem of their meeting, that doesn't go away. Unless
>>>>>>Kreacher's relatives got out of the House ot mix and mingle, then their
>>>>>>options would either be incest, or arranged marriages with House Elves
>>>>>
>>>>>>from friendly families, which would probably still involve a lot of
>>>>>
>>>>>>inbreeding.
>>>>>
>>>>>Maybe inbreeding isn't a problem for elves. We know it is for
>>>>>mammals. But are elves even mammals, or something else?
>>>>
>>>>House-elves are considered "magical creatures," are they not?
>>>>
>>>>Biodiversity through magical DNA! I like it.
>>>
>>>Can House-elves breed with humans?
>>
>>
>> No.
>
> Prove it.

Their lingams are far too small.
--
ah
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #290906 ] Mo, 26 Juni 2006 13:47
cwlNO  
In article <449faf16$0$580$8f2e0ebb [at] news.shared-secrets.com>, ah
<splifingate [at] gmail.com> wrote:

>duh wrote:
>> ah wrote:
>>> Tim Bruening wrote:
>>>
>>>>Mauro wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Toon" <toon [at] toon.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:u91a92921ugu21ov6196getse35iviq2ha [at] 4ax.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>>On 17 Jun 2006 07:59:13 -0700, "Karnak17" <karnak17 [at] cs.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>As to the problem of their meeting, that doesn't go away. Unless
>>>>>>>Kreacher's relatives got out of the House ot mix and mingle, then their
>>>>>>>options would either be incest, or arranged marriages with House Elves
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>from friendly families, which would probably still involve a lot of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>inbreeding.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Maybe inbreeding isn't a problem for elves. We know it is for
>>>>>>mammals. But are elves even mammals, or something else?
>>>>>
>>>>>House-elves are considered "magical creatures," are they not?
>>>>>
>>>>>Biodiversity through magical DNA! I like it.
>>>>
>>>>Can House-elves breed with humans?
>>>
>>>
>>> No.
>>
>> Prove it.
>
>Their lingams are far too small.

Judging by brains, I'm sure some of the guys around here could accomodate
a yoni.
--
Chris
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #290917 ] Mo, 26 Juni 2006 14:23
DUH  
>>>>Can House-elves breed with humans?
>>>
>>>
>>>No.
>>
>>Prove it.
>
>
> Their lingams are far too small.

Is that, like, a cheese?
--
-------------------------
"Work like no one is watching,
Dance like you've never been hurt, and
Love like you don't need the money"

\
=8{B
\
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #291588 ] Di, 27 Juni 2006 09:29
Tim Bruening  
ah wrote:

> Tim Bruening wrote:
> >
> > Mauro wrote:
> >
> >> "Toon" <toon [at] toon.com> wrote in message
> >> news:u91a92921ugu21ov6196getse35iviq2ha [at] 4ax.com...
> >> > On 17 Jun 2006 07:59:13 -0700, "Karnak17" <karnak17 [at] cs.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > >As to the problem of their meeting, that doesn't go away. Unless
> >> > >Kreacher's relatives got out of the House ot mix and mingle, then their
> >> > >options would either be incest, or arranged marriages with House Elves
> >> > >from friendly families, which would probably still involve a lot of
> >> > >inbreeding.
> >> >
> >> > Maybe inbreeding isn't a problem for elves. We know it is for
> >> > mammals. But are elves even mammals, or something else?
> >>
> >> House-elves are considered "magical creatures," are they not?
> >>
> >> Biodiversity through magical DNA! I like it.
> >
> > Can House-elves breed with humans?
>
> No.

Not even with a potion supplied by Snape?
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #291673 ] Di, 27 Juni 2006 22:10
dicconf  
Crosspost removed.

In article <44A0DE67.4A9F9CE9 [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>,
Tim Bruening <tsbrueni [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>ah wrote:
>> Tim Bruening wrote:
>> > Mauro wrote:
>> >> "Toon" <toon [at] toon.com> wrote
>> >> > "Karnak17" <karnak17 [at] cs.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >As to the problem of their meeting, that doesn't go away. Unless
>> >> > >Kreacher's relatives got out of the House ot mix and mingle, then their
>> >> > >options would either be incest, or arranged marriages with House Elves
>> >> > >from friendly families, which would probably still involve a lot of
>> >> > >inbreeding.
>> >> >
>> >> > Maybe inbreeding isn't a problem for elves. We know it is for
>> >> > mammals. But are elves even mammals, or something else?
>> >>
>> >> House-elves are considered "magical creatures," are they not?
>> >>
>> >> Biodiversity through magical DNA! I like it.
>> >
>> > Can House-elves breed with humans?
>>
>> No.
>
>Not even with a potion supplied by Snape?

Goblins can. (Prof. Flitwick's size is from a distant ancestor who was a goblin)
Veelas can. (Fleur)
Giants can. (Hagrid)

So I think that House-elves probably could, but probably would prefer not to.

(Wouldn't that make a difficult decision for the MoM! Not to mention if the
child had house-elf magic, and no "must serve master" compulsion.)

As someone posted here years ago, with Polyjuice, all is possible.

=Tamar
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #293130 ] Fr, 30 Juni 2006 03:13
ah  
duh wrote:
>>>>>Can House-elves breed with humans?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>No.
>>>
>>>Prove it.
>>
>>
>> Their lingams are far too small.
>
> Is that, like, a cheese?

More a condiment, that.
--
ah
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #293131 ] Fr, 30 Juni 2006 03:13
ah  
Tim Bruening wrote:
>
> ah wrote:
>
>> Tim Bruening wrote:
>> >
>> > Mauro wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Toon" <toon [at] toon.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:u91a92921ugu21ov6196getse35iviq2ha [at] 4ax.com...
>> >> > On 17 Jun 2006 07:59:13 -0700, "Karnak17" <karnak17 [at] cs.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >As to the problem of their meeting, that doesn't go away. Unless
>> >> > >Kreacher's relatives got out of the House ot mix and mingle, then their
>> >> > >options would either be incest, or arranged marriages with House Elves
>> >> > >from friendly families, which would probably still involve a lot of
>> >> > >inbreeding.
>> >> >
>> >> > Maybe inbreeding isn't a problem for elves. We know it is for
>> >> > mammals. But are elves even mammals, or something else?
>> >>
>> >> House-elves are considered "magical creatures," are they not?
>> >>
>> >> Biodiversity through magical DNA! I like it.
>> >
>> > Can House-elves breed with humans?
>>
>> No.
>
> Not even with a potion supplied by Snape?

Whatever that is, is can surely not be healthy.
--
ah
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #293152 ] Fr, 30 Juni 2006 08:53
Tim Bruening  
ah wrote:

> Tim Bruening wrote:
> >
> > ah wrote:
> >
> >> Tim Bruening wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Mauro wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Toon" <toon [at] toon.com> wrote in message
> >> >> news:u91a92921ugu21ov6196getse35iviq2ha [at] 4ax.com...
> >> >> > On 17 Jun 2006 07:59:13 -0700, "Karnak17" <karnak17 [at] cs.com> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >As to the problem of their meeting, that doesn't go away. Unless
> >> >> > >Kreacher's relatives got out of the House ot mix and mingle, then their
> >> >> > >options would either be incest, or arranged marriages with House Elves
> >> >> > >from friendly families, which would probably still involve a lot of
> >> >> > >inbreeding.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Maybe inbreeding isn't a problem for elves. We know it is for
> >> >> > mammals. But are elves even mammals, or something else?
> >> >>
> >> >> House-elves are considered "magical creatures," are they not?
> >> >>
> >> >> Biodiversity through magical DNA! I like it.
> >> >
> >> > Can House-elves breed with humans?
> >>
> >> No.
> >
> > Not even with a potion supplied by Snape?
>
> Whatever that is, is can surely not be healthy.

Snape was the Potions teacher at Hogworts until an unfortunate altercation with the
Headmaster.
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #293163 ] Fr, 30 Juni 2006 09:54
Toon  
On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:13:55 -0400, ah <splifingate [at] gmail.com> wrote:


>>> > Can House-elves breed with humans?
>>>
>>> No.
>>
>> Not even with a potion supplied by Snape?
>
>Whatever that is, is can surely not be healthy.

I'm sure there's a potion for that as well.
Re: House Elves: Order Of The Phoenix Spoilers [message #294929 ] Fr, 30 Juni 2006 23:20
drusilla  
Tim Bruening escribió:
>
> ah wrote:
>
>> Tim Bruening wrote:
>>> ah wrote:
>>>

>>>>> Can House-elves breed with humans?
>>>> No.
>>> Not even with a potion supplied by Snape?
>> Whatever that is, is can surely not be healthy.
>
> Snape was the Potions teacher at Hogworts until an unfortunate altercation with the
> Headmaster.
>
Yeah, and who knows what could he have been doing while he had his job
with all those elves in his free time...
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