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Fantasy » alt.fan.tolkien » Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH!
| Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #64979] |
Mo, 20 Juni 2005 22:58 |
|
This weekend REVENGE OF THE SITH easily blasted past the domestic
box office gross total of Peter Jackson's second desecration of TLotR,
and it's over $20 million past the pace-to-date of the third one at
the moment.
Who'll be next to take them down a peg?
NO MAN (OR WOMAN) COMETH TO MIDDLE-EARTH BUT THROUGH THE *BOOKS!!*
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
|
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #64981 ] |
Mo, 20 Juni 2005 23:28 |
|
In article <SpmdnYPFqeeOsyrfRVn-vQ [at] velocitywest.net>,
Louis Epstein <le [at] main.put.com> wrote:
>
>This weekend REVENGE OF THE SITH easily blasted past the domestic
>box office gross total of Peter Jackson's second desecration of TLotR,
>and it's over $20 million past the pace-to-date of the third one at
>the moment.
>
>Who'll be next to take them down a peg?
>
And, more importantly, who cares one whit?
|
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #64983 ] |
Di, 21 Juni 2005 00:06 |
|
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 15:58:59 -0500, Louis Epstein wrote:
> This weekend REVENGE OF THE SITH easily blasted past the domestic
> box office gross total of Peter Jackson's second desecration of TLotR,
> and it's over $20 million past the pace-to-date of the third one at
> the moment.
Who cares? Run along, little boy. Better yet, go play in traffic.
--
If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Linux Registered User #327951
|
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #64986 ] |
Di, 21 Juni 2005 02:06 |
|
Hey Lou, lick me retard. I read your vile bile for like 18 months until you
couldn't keep it up, just let it go.
Btw, let us count the Oscar's next spring, hmmm?
"Louis Epstein" <le [at] main.put.com> wrote in message
news:SpmdnYPFqeeOsyrfRVn-vQ [at] velocitywest.net...
>
> This weekend REVENGE OF THE SITH easily blasted past the domestic
> box office gross total of Peter Jackson's second desecration of TLotR,
> and it's over $20 million past the pace-to-date of the third one at
> the moment.
>
> Who'll be next to take them down a peg?
>
> NO MAN (OR WOMAN) COMETH TO MIDDLE-EARTH BUT THROUGH THE *BOOKS!!*
>
> -=-=-
> The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
> at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
|
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #65544 ] |
Di, 21 Juni 2005 22:23 |
|
In alt.fan.tolkien Ikema <mtsquad [at] comcast.net> wrote:
: Hey Lou, lick me retard. I read your vile bile for like 18 months until you
: couldn't keep it up, just let it go.
One doesn't "let go" of matters of principle.
PJ's cinematic "vile bile" needs to be buried deep!
: Btw, let us count the Oscar's next spring, hmmm?
:
: "Louis Epstein" <le [at] main.put.com> wrote in message
: news:SpmdnYPFqeeOsyrfRVn-vQ [at] velocitywest.net...
:>
:> This weekend REVENGE OF THE SITH easily blasted past the domestic
:> box office gross total of Peter Jackson's second desecration of TLotR,
:> and it's over $20 million past the pace-to-date of the third one at
:> the moment.
Sith after 33 days of release->$349,270,153
PJ III after 33 days of release->$326,812,102
PJ III after 53 days of release->$349,762,348
at that point PJ III was struggling to hit $300K on weekdays
but Sith is getting over three times that this week.
:> Who'll be next to take them down a peg?
:>
:> NO MAN (OR WOMAN) COMETH TO MIDDLE-EARTH BUT THROUGH THE *BOOKS!!*
:>
:> -=-=-
:> The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
:> at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
|
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #65548 ] |
Mi, 22 Juni 2005 00:01 |
|
"Louis Epstein" <le [at] main.put.com> wrote in message
news:SpmdnYPFqeeOsyrfRVn-vQ [at] velocitywest.net...
Have you ever considered that when you do these posts, you simply get people
thinking about those films again.
Thanks. You've just persuaded me to go and watch RotK again.
--
--
Chris Lyth (clythJFK [at] ifis.org.uk - shoot the president to reply)
IBM: Increasingly Bad Manufacturing
|
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #65571 ] |
Mi, 22 Juni 2005 05:32 |
|
Louis Epstein wrote:
> Sith after 33 days of release->$349,270,153
> PJ III after 33 days of release->$326,812,102
> PJ III after 53 days of release->$349,762,348
> at that point PJ III was struggling to hit $300K on weekdays
> but Sith is getting over three times that this week.
PJ III: 11 Academy Awards
Sith: 0
and no chance that the total will change.
-- FotW
Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.
|
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #65573 ] |
Mi, 22 Juni 2005 07:24 |
|
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:23:31 -0500, Louis Epstein <le [at] main.put.com>
wrote:
>In alt.fan.tolkien Ikema <mtsquad [at] comcast.net> wrote:
>: Hey Lou, lick me retard. I read your vile bile for like 18 months until you
>: couldn't keep it up, just let it go.
>
>One doesn't "let go" of matters of principle.
>PJ's cinematic "vile bile" needs to be buried deep!
And yet, when was the last time you commented on the books you claim
to prefer so much? When are you going to start a COTW discussion? Huh?
Or just take part in one? Face it, you've become a PJ anti-fan rather
than a Tolkien fan, far more interested in the movies than some musty
old books. They must have been great and moving films to have stirred
such a depth of feeling in you.
--
R. Dan Henry
danhenry [at] inreach.com
|
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #66144 ] |
Mi, 22 Juni 2005 16:29 |
|
In alt.fan.tolkien R. Dan Henry <danhenry [at] inreach.com> wrote:
: On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:23:31 -0500, Louis Epstein <le [at] main.put.com>
: wrote:
:
:>In alt.fan.tolkien Ikema <mtsquad [at] comcast.net> wrote:
:>: Hey Lou, lick me retard. I read your vile bile for like 18 months until you
:>: couldn't keep it up, just let it go.
:>
:>One doesn't "let go" of matters of principle.
:>PJ's cinematic "vile bile" needs to be buried deep!
:
: And yet, when was the last time you commented on the books you claim
: to prefer so much?
Probably on one of the threads about 50th Anniversary Editions.
: When are you going to start a COTW discussion? Huh?
: Or just take part in one? Face it, you've become a PJ anti-fan rather
: than a Tolkien fan, far more interested in the movies than some musty
: old books.
Books I read every day interest me to the extent that
I defend them against cinematic perversion.
: They must have been great and moving films to have stirred
: such a depth of feeling in you.
I only even saw one of them,strictly because it was part of an event
I wasn't paying to attend.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
|
|
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #66147 ] |
Mi, 22 Juni 2005 17:50 |
|
On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:29:44 -0500, Louis Epstein wrote:
> Books I read every day interest me to the extent that
> I defend them against cinematic perversion.
Your whining isn't going to "undo" anything. The movies are made, they
exist, and whether you like them or not really doesn't matter much to
anyone.
>> They must have been great and moving films to have stirred such a
>> depth of feeling in you.
> I only even saw one of them,strictly because it was part of an event I
> wasn't paying to attend.
Then how can you have a (meaningful) opinion of the movies?
--
If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Linux Registered User #327951
|
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #66709 ] |
Do, 23 Juni 2005 17:53 |
|
Louis Epstein wrote:
>
> I only even saw one of them,strictly because it was part of an event
> I wasn't paying to attend.
>
Contempt prior to investigation. The mark of the pure anti-intellectual.
|
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #66716 ] |
Do, 23 Juni 2005 19:56 |
|
Is that you favourite line or what?? Obviously a paedophile with a
"little boy" obsession...
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #66720 ] |
Do, 23 Juni 2005 21:50 |
|
In rec.arts.books.tolkien Ikema <mtsquad [at] comcast.net> wrote:
> Hey Lou, lick me retard. I read your vile bile for like 18 months until you
> couldn't keep it up, just let it go.
> Btw, let us count the Oscar's next spring, hmmm?
Don't forget the international box office.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/
Or do only Americans count when deciding this
most important question? :) :)
Stephen
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #66726 ] |
Do, 23 Juni 2005 23:39 |
|
In alt.fan.tolkien Cat_in_awe <rl3166pls [at] excite.,com> wrote:
: Louis Epstein wrote:
:>
:> I only even saw one of them,strictly because it was part of an event
:> I wasn't paying to attend.
:>
:
: Contempt prior to investigation. The mark of the pure anti-intellectual.
Not at all.
The very concept of filming TLotR is offensive;
the details of any given attempt are secondary.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
|
|
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #66727 ] |
Do, 23 Juni 2005 23:40 |
|
In alt.fan.tolkien Beeblebear <chris [at] clyth.jfkshhot the presidentfsnet.co.uk> wrote:
:
: "Louis Epstein" <le [at] main.put.com> wrote in message
: news:SpmdnYPFqeeOsyrfRVn-vQ [at] velocitywest.net...
:
: Have you ever considered that when you do these posts, you simply get people
: thinking about those films again.
: Thanks. You've just persuaded me to go and watch RotK again.
Psst...it's not in theaters any more!
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
|
|
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #66729 ] |
Fr, 24 Juni 2005 00:01 |
|
In alt.fan.tolkien stephen [at] nomail.com wrote:
: In rec.arts.books.tolkien Ikema <mtsquad [at] comcast.net> wrote:
:> Hey Lou, lick me retard. I read your vile bile for like 18 months until you
:> couldn't keep it up, just let it go.
:
:> Btw, let us count the Oscar's next spring, hmmm?
:
: Don't forget the international box office.
: http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/
: Or do only Americans count when deciding this
: most important question? :) :)
I don't forget international...if it passes any of PJ's tripe
on a worldwide basis it will get a congratulation thread each
time.;)
: Stephen
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
|
|
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #66730 ] |
Fr, 24 Juni 2005 00:04 |
|
In alt.fan.tolkien Dan C <youmustbejoking [at] invalid.lan> wrote:
: On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:29:44 -0500, Louis Epstein wrote:
:
:> Books I read every day interest me to the extent that
:> I defend them against cinematic perversion.
:
: Your whining isn't going to "undo" anything. The movies are made, they
: exist, and whether you like them or not really doesn't matter much to
: anyone.
The more other movies matter more to other people,the better.
:>> They must have been great and moving films to have stirred such a
:>> depth of feeling in you.
:
:> I only even saw one of them,strictly because it was part of an event I
:> wasn't paying to attend.
:
: Then how can you have a (meaningful) opinion of the movies?
Because they represent something that should never happen,
and should never be forgiven.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
|
|
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #66732 ] |
Fr, 24 Juni 2005 00:17 |
|
In alt.fan.tolkien Flame of the West <jsolinas [at] comcast.net> wrote:
: Louis Epstein wrote:
:
:> Sith after 33 days of release->$349,270,153
after 35->$351,390,871
[highest grossing Christopher Lee movie,
and past PJ I even with inflation]
:> PJ III after 33 days of release->$326,812,102
after 35->$329,779,717
:> PJ III after 53 days of release->$349,762,348
after 55->$351,428,929
:> at that point PJ III was struggling to hit $300K on weekdays
:> but Sith is getting over three times that this week.
:
: PJ III: 11 Academy Awards
: Sith: 0
:
: and no chance that the total will change.
You're that sure the effects will lose?
: -- FotW
:
: Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.
And Middle-Earth is found ONLY in the books.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
|
|
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #66736 ] |
Fr, 24 Juni 2005 02:22 |
|
On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 17:04:48 -0500, Louis Epstein wrote:
> :> I only even saw one of them,strictly because it was part of an event I
> :> wasn't paying to attend.
> : Then how can you have a (meaningful) opinion of the movies?
> Because they represent something that should never happen,
> and should never be forgiven.
OK, now it's completely clear that you're an utter wacko. Get back in
your padded room and shut the fuck up, pyscho.
--
If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Linux Registered User #327951
|
|
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #66738 ] |
Fr, 24 Juni 2005 04:00 |
|
On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:22:00 -0500, in alt.fan.tolkien Dan C
<youmustbejoking [at] invalid.lan> wrote:
>
>OK, now it's completely clear that you're an utter wacko. Get back in
>your padded room and shut the fuck up, pyscho.
Dan,
Please stop feeding the Troll.
the softrat
"Honi soit qui mal y pense."
mailto:softrat [at] pobox.com
--
"If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal
|
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #66742 ] |
Fr, 24 Juni 2005 09:31 |
|
Ranking of the LOTR movies in the Internet Movie Database:
ROTK - 3rd
FOTR - 9th
TTT - 14th
Revenge of the Sith - Not in the top 250
Batman Begins - 82nd (proving current movies can be included)
Conclusion: Don't even mention the latest pile of pooh from the Lucas
robot.
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| Filming LotR is Offensive? [message #67820 ] |
Fr, 24 Juni 2005 16:19 |
|
In article <A4adnQ64De-1sSbfRVn-gw [at] velocitywest.net>,
Louis Epstein <le [at] main.put.com> wrote:
>
>Not at all.
>The very concept of filming TLotR is offensive;
This is an interesting position, since it is one that Tolkien did
not himself share. Although, after his encounter with Ackerman
and Zimmerman in the late '50s, he came to the conclusion that a
satisfactory film of the books would not be made, it is quite plain
from his critique of Zimmerman's treatment that the _concept_ of
filming LotR was not offensive to him. That letter, after all,
even made suggestions for how certain scenes could be handled. If
the very concept of filming LotR were as offensive to Tolkien as
it seems to be to Epstein, he would not have even bothered to read
the treatment.
It seems to me that Epstein is suffering from an unfortunate case
of elitist defensiveness. It is not the concept of filming LotR
that offends him so much as the fact that large numbers of people
are reading the book as a result (he hath decreed: nobody may come
to Middle-earth save through the books). Tolkien's world is no
longer a private little playground for college students, academics,
and geeks; it has become a part of the popular culture. Everyone
knows what "My Precioussss" refers to, and it has become a bit of
a catch-phrase. Some people see this as an invasion; the rest of
us see it as an opportunity for sharing and finding common ground
with our friends who are finally starting to understand what we
Tolkien fans have been enthusing over all this time.
One of Tolkien's great themes in The Lord of the Rings is the
futility of trying to hold back the passage of time, through the
unnatural longevity conferred by the Great Rings, or in the Elves'
yearning to stop the changefulness of Middle-earth through the
power of the Three Rings, seen especially in Lorien, or even in
Denethor's wish to have things forever as they were in the days of
his forefathers. It is therefore particularly sad to see someone
like Epstein, who claims to so admire these writings, struggling
pitifully to stop the changes in fandom and popular culture that
the films have wrought.
Ostadan
|
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #67821 ] |
Fr, 24 Juni 2005 17:14 |
|
Softrat,
Please stop bullying people you disagree with.
|
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| Re: Filming LotR is Offensive? [message #67822 ] |
Fr, 24 Juni 2005 17:17 |
|
Ostadan wrote on June 24:
>One of Tolkien's great themes in The Lord of the Rings is the
>futility of trying to hold back the passage of time, through the
>unnatural longevity conferred by the Great Rings, or in the Elves'
>yearning to stop the changefulness of Middle-earth through the
>power of the Three Rings, seen especially in Lorien, or even in
>Denethor's wish to have things forever as they were in the days of
>his forefathers. It is therefore particularly sad to see someone
>like Epstein, who claims to so admire these writings, struggling
>pitifully to stop the changes in fandom and popular culture that
>the films have wrought.
Louis' ardor is actually quite representative of many "old school"
Tolkien fans who continue to express their dislike of the movies in
other forums.
They should not be pitied or ridiculed for holding a different point of
view from people who have enjoyed the movies and look forward to the
next generation of Tolkien-derived cinematic fare.
|
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #67826 ] |
Fr, 24 Juni 2005 18:48 |
|
Michael [at] xenite.org wrote:
> Softrat,
>
> Please stop bullying people you disagree with.
Michael Martinez!! Greetings, old chum.
|
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #67835 ] |
Fr, 24 Juni 2005 21:01 |
|
"Louis Epstein" <le [at] main.put.com> wrote in message
news:A4adnQm4De_NsSbfRVn-gw [at] velocitywest.net...
> In alt.fan.tolkien Beeblebear <chris [at] clyth.jfkshhot the
> presidentfsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> :
> : "Louis Epstein" <le [at] main.put.com> wrote in message
> : news:SpmdnYPFqeeOsyrfRVn-vQ [at] velocitywest.net...
> :
> : Have you ever considered that when you do these posts, you simply get
> people
> : thinking about those films again.
> : Thanks. You've just persuaded me to go and watch RotK again.
>
> Psst...it's not in theaters any more!
You have heard of videos and DVDs haven't you?
I bought a DVD player just so I could get the Extended editions.
I liked the films that much. They even persuaded me to re-read the books.
--
--
Chris Lyth (clythJFK [at] ifis.org.uk - shoot the president to reply)
If a listener nods his head when you're explaining your program,
wake him.
|
|
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #67838 ] |
Fr, 24 Juni 2005 22:36 |
|
On 24 Jun 2005 08:14:02 -0700, Michael [at] xenite.org wrote:
>Softrat,
>
>Please stop bullying people you disagree with.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!
HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Michael, you are *so* droll!
the softrat
"Honi soit qui mal y pense."
mailto:softrat [at] pobox.com
--
My karma ran over my dogma.
|
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #67846 ] |
Sa, 25 Juni 2005 00:06 |
|
Softrat, I know you have no intention of NOT bullying people. I just
wanted to be on record, once again, as opposing your abusive,
condescending, inflammatory behavior.
You and the others like you have really ruined these discussion groups.
There are about three Tolkien-related discussions showing up on Google
for the past two weeks in alt.fan.tolkien and rec.arts.books.tolkien.
You and your ilk have done a far better job of running decent people
out of the groups than SuzieFlame ever could have hoped to.
|
|
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| Re: Filming LotR is Offensive? [message #67851 ] |
Sa, 25 Juni 2005 02:09 |
|
<Ostadan [at] theonering.net> wrote in message
news:d9h4q6$b8o$1 [at] reader1.panix.com...
> In article <A4adnQ64De-1sSbfRVn-gw [at] velocitywest.net>,
> Louis Epstein <le [at] main.put.com> wrote:
>>
>>Not at all.
>>The very concept of filming TLotR is offensive;
>
> This is an interesting position, since it is one that Tolkien did
> not himself share. Although, after his encounter with Ackerman
> and Zimmerman in the late '50s, he came to the conclusion that a
> satisfactory film of the books would not be made, it is quite plain
> from his critique of Zimmerman's treatment that the _concept_ of
> filming LotR was not offensive to him. That letter, after all,
> even made suggestions for how certain scenes could be handled. If
> the very concept of filming LotR were as offensive to Tolkien as
> it seems to be to Epstein, he would not have even bothered to read
> the treatment.
>
> It seems to me that Epstein is suffering from an unfortunate case
> of elitist defensiveness. It is not the concept of filming LotR
> that offends him so much as the fact that large numbers of people
> are reading the book as a result (he hath decreed: nobody may come
> to Middle-earth save through the books). Tolkien's world is no
> longer a private little playground for college students, academics,
> and geeks; it has become a part of the popular culture. Everyone
> knows what "My Precioussss" refers to, and it has become a bit of
> a catch-phrase. Some people see this as an invasion; the rest of
> us see it as an opportunity for sharing and finding common ground
> with our friends who are finally starting to understand what we
> Tolkien fans have been enthusing over all this time.
>
> One of Tolkien's great themes in The Lord of the Rings is the
> futility of trying to hold back the passage of time, through the
> unnatural longevity conferred by the Great Rings, or in the Elves'
> yearning to stop the changefulness of Middle-earth through the
> power of the Three Rings, seen especially in Lorien, or even in
> Denethor's wish to have things forever as they were in the days of
> his forefathers. It is therefore particularly sad to see someone
> like Epstein, who claims to so admire these writings, struggling
> pitifully to stop the changes in fandom and popular culture that
> the films have wrought.
>
> Ostadan
That is, perhaps, one of the singlemost best responses I have ever seen on
this forum. In essence what many people have done is take their own
interpretations of what they believe Tolkien was saying and completely
lambast any other interpretation that doesn't match those pre-conveived
notions. So instead of letting the films stand on their own as works in
their own right, the films are criticized for not being
"pure" and matching the expectations from someone's personal interpretation.
I think the films were successful because the majority of moviegoers didn't
try to hold the films to their own unrealistic expectations. The inability
of some people to cope with the idea of alternate interpretations is really
a form of mental atrophy.
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| Re: Filming LotR is Offensive? [message #67853 ] |
Sa, 25 Juni 2005 02:39 |
|
In article <1119626242.687326.26060 [at] g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Michael [at] xenite.org wrote:
> Ostadan wrote on June 24:
> >One of Tolkien's great themes in The Lord of the Rings is the
> >futility of trying to hold back the passage of time, through the
> >unnatural longevity conferred by the Great Rings, or in the Elves'
> >yearning to stop the changefulness of Middle-earth through the
> >power of the Three Rings, seen especially in Lorien, or even in
> >Denethor's wish to have things forever as they were in the days of
> >his forefathers. It is therefore particularly sad to see someone
> >like Epstein, who claims to so admire these writings, struggling
> >pitifully to stop the changes in fandom and popular culture that
> >the films have wrought.
>
> Louis' ardor is actually quite representative of many "old school"
> Tolkien fans who continue to express their dislike of the movies in
> other forums.
>
> They should not be pitied or ridiculed for holding a different point of
> view from people who have enjoyed the movies and look forward to the
> next generation of Tolkien-derived cinematic fare.
Since 'they' attack the 'they' who have enjoyed the films in their own
right, or an as extension of appreciation for the books, you will excuse
us if we don't defer to Mr. Epstein.
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #67854 ] |
Sa, 25 Juni 2005 03:03 |
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Michael [at] xenite.org wrote:
> Softrat, I know you have no intention of NOT bullying people. I just
> wanted to be on record, once again, as opposing your abusive,
> condescending, inflammatory behavior.
>
> You and the others like you have really ruined these discussion groups.
> There are about three Tolkien-related discussions showing up on Google
> for the past two weeks in alt.fan.tolkien and rec.arts.books.tolkien.
>
> You and your ilk have done a far better job of running decent people
> out of the groups than SuzieFlame ever could have hoped to.
Yeah! Look what you've done! Do you think MM *enjoys*
having to get on this NG every six months to remind us
how you and your ilk have ruined it? I'm sure he'd
much rather be doing something else, but thanks to you
and your ilk, he is obliged to keep coming back here.
-- FotW
Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #67855 ] |
Sa, 25 Juni 2005 03:04 |
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Louis Epstein wrote:
> : PJ III: 11 Academy Awards
> : Sith: 0
> :
> : and no chance that the total will change.
>
> You're that sure the effects will lose?
The acting is universally condemned. I can't believe
that a glorified video game masquerading as a movie
could win an Oscar. You've *got* to have some acting.
-- FotW
Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.
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| Re: Filming LotR is Offensive? [message #67859 ] |
Sa, 25 Juni 2005 03:59 |
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In alt.fan.tolkien Ostadan [at] theonering.net wrote:
: In article <A4adnQ64De-1sSbfRVn-gw [at] velocitywest.net>,
: Louis Epstein <le [at] main.put.com> wrote:
:>
:>Not at all.
:>The very concept of filming TLotR is offensive;
:
: This is an interesting position, since it is one that Tolkien did
: not himself share. Although, after his encounter with Ackerman
: and Zimmerman in the late '50s, he came to the conclusion that a
: satisfactory film of the books would not be made, it is quite plain
: from his critique of Zimmerman's treatment that the _concept_ of
: filming LotR was not offensive to him. That letter, after all,
: even made suggestions for how certain scenes could be handled. If
: the very concept of filming LotR were as offensive to Tolkien as
: it seems to be to Epstein, he would not have even bothered to read
: the treatment.
:
: It seems to me that Epstein is suffering from an unfortunate case
: of elitist defensiveness. It is not the concept of filming LotR
: that offends him so much as the fact that large numbers of people
: are reading the book as a result (he hath decreed: nobody may come
: to Middle-earth save through the books).
That people are reading the books does NOT offend me;
that people 1)see the movies without having read the books first
or 2)see the movies and never read the books
or 3)see the movies without being outraged by
every single alteration from the books
or 4)see the movies and read the books with Jackson's
interpretation interfering with their own
is what offends me.
All of these offenses are made possible by the existence of the
movies.
: Tolkien's world is no
: longer a private little playground for college students, academics,
: and geeks; it has become a part of the popular culture.
Um...hello...that's what happened (entirely due to the books)
in the 1960s,when it was an enormous college craze.
The books are entitled to be part of the popular culture,
adaptations of them are NOT.
: Everyone knows what "My Precioussss" refers to, and it has become
: a bit of a catch-phrase. Some people see this as an invasion; the
: rest of us see it as an opportunity for sharing and finding common
: ground with our friends who are finally starting to understand what
: we Tolkien fans have been enthusing over all this time.
All fine and good if they DO (thanks to reading the books),
no excuse for their seeing the movies and THINK they do.
: One of Tolkien's great themes in The Lord of the Rings is the
: futility of trying to hold back the passage of time,
Ah...no sense trying to restore monarchy to Gondor then eh?
: through the
: unnatural longevity conferred by the Great Rings, or in the Elves'
: yearning to stop the changefulness of Middle-earth through the
: power of the Three Rings, seen especially in Lorien, or even in
: Denethor's wish to have things forever as they were in the days of
: his forefathers. It is therefore particularly sad to see someone
: like Epstein, who claims to so admire these writings, struggling
: pitifully to stop the changes in fandom and popular culture that
: the films have wrought.
:
: Ostadan
The books must live;
the films must die.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
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| Re: Filming LotR is Offensive? [message #67860 ] |
Sa, 25 Juni 2005 04:02 |
|
In alt.fan.tolkien Baron Ringler <baronjosefr [at] aol.com> wrote:
:
:
: That is, perhaps, one of the singlemost best responses I have ever seen
: on this forum. In essence what many people have done is take their own
: interpretations of what they believe Tolkien was saying and completely
: lambast any other interpretation that doesn't match those pre-conveived
: notions. So instead of letting the films stand on their own as works in
: their own right,
Which is extremely offensive to the books...
: the films are criticized for not being "pure" and matching the
: expectations from someone's personal interpretation.
More than that...they act to prevent millions of people from
forming THEIR own interpretations.
: I think the films were successful because the majority of moviegoers didn't
: try to hold the films to their own unrealistic expectations. The inability
: of some people to cope with the idea of alternate interpretations is really
: a form of mental atrophy.
You are welcome to read the books and form what ever understanding
of them is within your comprehension...but not to use that interpretation
to be the way other people experience what they should only be able to
experience through reading the books themselves.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #67861 ] |
Sa, 25 Juni 2005 04:05 |
|
In alt.fan.tolkien Beeblebear <chris [at] clyth.jfkshhot the presidentfsnet.co.uk> wrote:
:
: "Louis Epstein" <le [at] main.put.com> wrote in message
: news:A4adnQm4De_NsSbfRVn-gw [at] velocitywest.net...
:> In alt.fan.tolkien Beeblebear <chris [at] clyth.jfkshhot the
:> presidentfsnet.co.uk> wrote:
:> :
:> : "Louis Epstein" <le [at] main.put.com> wrote in message
:> : news:SpmdnYPFqeeOsyrfRVn-vQ [at] velocitywest.net...
:> :
:> : Have you ever considered that when you do these posts, you simply get
:> : people thinking about those films again.
:> : Thanks. You've just persuaded me to go and watch RotK again.
:>
:> Psst...it's not in theaters any more!
:
: You have heard of videos and DVDs haven't you?
Yes,but watching them once you've bought them doesn't add
to the financial numbers I exult in seeing eclipsed.
: I bought a DVD player just so I could get the Extended editions.
: I liked the films that much. They even persuaded me to re-read the books.
If the re-reading didn't cure you of the liking for the films,
keep doing it until it does.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
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| Re: Filming LotR is Offensive? [message #67863 ] |
Sa, 25 Juni 2005 06:19 |
|
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:02:34 -0500, Louis Epstein wrote:
> : That is, perhaps, one of the singlemost best responses I have ever seen
> : on this forum. In essence what many people have done is take their own
> : interpretations of what they believe Tolkien was saying and completely
> : lambast any other interpretation that doesn't match those pre-conveived
> : notions. So instead of letting the films stand on their own as works in
> : their own right,
> Which is extremely offensive to the books...
Don't be silly. Books are inanimate objects, and can't be offended.
> : the films are criticized for not being "pure" and matching the
> : expectations from someone's personal interpretation.
> More than that...they act to prevent millions of people from
> forming THEIR own interpretations.
Of course they don't. Did you mean to say that they prevent people from
forming the same interpretation as your own?
--
If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Linux Registered User #327951
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| Re: Filming LotR is Offensive? [message #67876 ] |
Sa, 25 Juni 2005 15:24 |
|
"Louis Epstein" <le [at] main.put.com> wrote in message
news:deudnRYhc-8RJyHfRVn-gQ [at] velocitywest.net...
> In alt.fan.tolkien Ostadan [at] theonering.net wrote:
> : In article <A4adnQ64De-1sSbfRVn-gw [at] velocitywest.net>,
> : Louis Epstein <le [at] main.put.com> wrote:
> :>
> :>Not at all.
> :>The very concept of filming TLotR is offensive;
> :
> : This is an interesting position, since it is one that Tolkien did
> : not himself share. Although, after his encounter with Ackerman
> : and Zimmerman in the late '50s, he came to the conclusion that a
> : satisfactory film of the books would not be made, it is quite plain
> : from his critique of Zimmerman's treatment that the _concept_ of
> : filming LotR was not offensive to him. That letter, after all,
> : even made suggestions for how certain scenes could be handled. If
> : the very concept of filming LotR were as offensive to Tolkien as
> : it seems to be to Epstein, he would not have even bothered to read
> : the treatment.
> :
> : It seems to me that Epstein is suffering from an unfortunate case
> : of elitist defensiveness. It is not the concept of filming LotR
> : that offends him so much as the fact that large numbers of people
> : are reading the book as a result (he hath decreed: nobody may come
> : to Middle-earth save through the books).
>
> That people are reading the books does NOT offend me;
> that people 1)see the movies without having read the books first
> or 2)see the movies and never read the books
> or 3)see the movies without being outraged by
> every single alteration from the books
> or 4)see the movies and read the books with Jackson's
> interpretation interfering with their own
> is what offends me.
>
> All of these offenses are made possible by the existence of the
> movies.
So what should have been done? Hand out copies of the trilogy at movie
theaters, telling people to go home and read them before seeing the films?
Whether right or wrong, the trilogy has been considered the purview of nerds
for decades. If the movies opened up that world, and reading, and such to
thousands and thousands of people, how can you possibly suggests that is a
bad thing?
And a reminder: if the books had been filmed verbatim, it would have been
the biggest snoozefest ever put on screen. The council of Elrond alone would
have taken an hour (although I must agree, the poster shot at the end and
the pronouncement "you shall be known as The Fellowship of the Ring" was
absolutely vile).
All in all, the most offensive thing I see is not that people see the movie,
then read the books, and allow Jackson's vision to interfere with their own,
it is that people see the movie, read the books, have an opinion that
doesn't coincide with what Epstein and company believe their vision of
Middle Earth should be, and therefore are put down for it.
>
> : Tolkien's world is no
> : longer a private little playground for college students, academics,
> : and geeks; it has become a part of the popular culture.
>
> Um...hello...that's what happened (entirely due to the books)
> in the 1960s,when it was an enormous college craze.
Reda this back and forth again. it is pointed out that college elitism
favored Tolkien, not popular culture, which you turn around and make
agreement with.
>
> The books are entitled to be part of the popular culture,
> adaptations of them are NOT.
But it is only due to the adaptations that the books are part of popular
culture, and that they escaped from the college elitism that you agreed was
their domicile in the 60's
>
> : Everyone knows what "My Precioussss" refers to, and it has become
> : a bit of a catch-phrase. Some people see this as an invasion; the
> : rest of us see it as an opportunity for sharing and finding common
> : ground with our friends who are finally starting to understand what
> : we Tolkien fans have been enthusing over all this time.
>
> All fine and good if they DO (thanks to reading the books),
> no excuse for their seeing the movies and THINK they do.
More importantly, they don't agree with YOUR view of Tolkien, so it must be
inferior.
>
> : One of Tolkien's great themes in The Lord of the Rings is the
> : futility of trying to hold back the passage of time,
>
> Ah...no sense trying to restore monarchy to Gondor then eh?
>
> : through the
> : unnatural longevity conferred by the Great Rings, or in the Elves'
> : yearning to stop the changefulness of Middle-earth through the
> : power of the Three Rings, seen especially in Lorien, or even in
> : Denethor's wish to have things forever as they were in the days of
> : his forefathers. It is therefore particularly sad to see someone
> : like Epstein, who claims to so admire these writings, struggling
> : pitifully to stop the changes in fandom and popular culture that
> : the films have wrought.
> :
> : Ostadan
>
> The books must live;
> the films must die.
In other words, you are jealous that Tolkien is no longer part of your
closely gaurded little fiefdom. For decades the same stale views of Tolkien
had been making the rounds, being regurgitated by intellectually arrogant
elitism, and generally being molded into a concrete form that would stand
for centuries. Now, because of the films, people are coming up with
interpretations and views that don't mesh with the carefuly constructed,
mentally stagnate, form of which you and others have based your whole Tolken
experience. And it grates on you.
Are their parts of the movie that bothered me? Yes. The afore-mentioned
poster shot, Legolas wearing a blue spandex suit with a big 'S' on the chest
and a red cape (well, he didn't but he should have), and a few other choice
items did irritate me greatly. But if someone else doesn't view those issues
in the same way, I am not going to become upset.
>
> -=-=-
> The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
> at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
|
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #67879 ] |
Sa, 25 Juni 2005 17:06 |
|
Flame of the West kirjoitti viestissä ...
>Louis Epstein wrote:
>
>> : PJ III: 11 Academy Awards
>> : Sith: 0
>> :
>> : and no chance that the total will change.
>>
>> You're that sure the effects will lose?
>
>The acting is universally condemned. I can't believe
>that a glorified video game masquerading as a movie
>could win an Oscar. You've *got* to have some acting.
Didn't seem to matter with LotR.
Besides only Hayden and Natalie are universally condemned.
Most others vary from mildly approved performances to widely
praised Ian McDiarmand.
Morgil
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| Re: Congratulations Again REVENGE OF THE SITH! [message #67880 ] |
Sa, 25 Juni 2005 17:22 |
|
Mr. Finsky kirjoitti viestissä
<1119598294.960583.219160 [at] g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>...
>Ranking of the LOTR movies in the Internet Movie Database:
>
>ROTK - 3rd
>FOTR - 9th
>TTT - 14th
>
>Revenge of the Sith - Not in the top 250
>Batman Begins - 82nd (proving current movies can be included)
>
>Conclusion: Don't even mention the latest pile of pooh from the Lucas
>robot.
If there's any conclusion to be drawn from that, it is that internet geeks
have no taste of their own and run to wherever Harry Knowles points.
Notice however that the gap between RotK and RotS is merely 1.0
points. That's too insufficient even to be called a gap. And considering
the amount of anti-Lucas fanatics who would vote zero to whatever he
would make, the difference is practically nonexistent.
Morgil
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| Re: Filming LotR is Offensive? [message #67883 ] |
Sa, 25 Juni 2005 17:38 |
|
Ostadan [at] theonering.net kirjoitti viestissä ...
>In article <A4adnQ64De-1sSbfRVn-gw [at] velocitywest.net>,
>Louis Epstein <le [at] main.put.com> wrote:
>>
>>Not at all.
>>The very concept of filming TLotR is offensive;
>It seems to me that Epstein is suffering from an unfortunate case
>of elitist defensiveness. It is not the concept of filming LotR
>that offends him so much as the fact that large numbers of people
>are reading the book as a result (he hath decreed: nobody may come
>to Middle-earth save through the books). Tolkien's world is no
>longer a private little playground for college students, academics,
>and geeks; it has become a part of the popular culture.
Actually LotR has been voted steadily to be the most popular book
ever written in all possible polls long before the movies were made.
But what is sad about the popularity of the movies even among the
book-readers, is that it suggests that most of them have incredibly
shallow comprehension of the book, if they think the movies in any
way acceptably represent the spirit, themes and visions of the book.
Morgil
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