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Science Fiction » alt.startrek » The official K/S FAQ (Re: FAQ, For All That Are New)
| The official K/S FAQ (Re: FAQ, For All That Are New) [message #59132] |
Sa, 11 Juni 2005 21:22 |
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The official K/S FAQ
[By Laura Goodwin. Latest revision: 6/11/05]
1. Q) What's the truth about the alt.tv.star-trek.tos FAQ?
A) Graeme, a blatant anti-K/Ser, periodically posts an obviously biased
"alt.tv.star-trek.tos FAQ" primarily to give the false impression that
K/S is officially off-topic here, and that a perfectly reasonable
argument in favor of it hasn't been offered - which is deceptive of him.
Graeme is not the original author of the bogus FAQ, he just edited it to
add the inflamatory material. After flaming me non-stop for several
years running to no avail, he now pulls this stunt. It's not even an
original stunt: Pahsons tried it before him. The original author,
Connmoore, also was anti-K/S, but at least he had the good taste to keep
his anti-K/S hatefulness out of his FAQ. In its current form, Graeme's
"FAQ" is nothing but an elaborate and deceptive flame. He can't seem to
get it through his head that it's not working. It didn't work when
Pahsons did it, and it's not working for Graeme, either. Sorry, Graeme.
2. Q) What is K/S?
A) K/S is keyboard shorthand for Kirk/Spock.
3. Q) Kirk/Spock... what?
A) Many people believe, or just like to fantasize, that Kirk and Spock
are MORE than just friends... that they are homosexual/bisexual lovers,
to be precise.
4. Q) But isn't that absolutely wrong? I mean, the very idea!
A) Nope. The truth is that a very good case can be made in favor of
Kirk/Spock as a legitimate interpretation of what we see in TOS.
5. Q) Who is ToolPackinMama, and why is she famous for posting K/S stuff?
A) ToolPackinMama AKA Laura Goodwin, is a very nice lady who is a
dedicated TOS fan, and regular of alt.tv.star-trek.tos and alt.startrek
for many years. She is the principal K/S advocate of the NG, and a
fanfic writer/commentator of no small note who has thrilled and outraged
people all over the net since 1996.
6. Q) Why doesn't she just stop? Can't she see that she's upsetting
people?
A) ToolPackinMama notices that some people become upset, but her
objective is to thrill and delight her fans, and unfortunately the
non-fans are also readers, who feel compelled for their own reasons to
blurt out weird shit at random.
7. Q) Doesn't everybody know that Kirk is a heterosexual he-man who
porked all the chicks!?
A) Yes, but everybody is wrong. Kirk actually got laid by women only
twice for certain, four times at best, in his entire history.
8. Q) Kirk sired children! Even if he only got laid once, doesn't that
prove he's straight?
A) No. Gay men can and do sometimes fuck women, they just usually
prefer men. I personally have known Gay men who fucked more women in
one night than Kirk did in his whole life. BTW, Gay men can and do also
father children. Just because a guy is Gay doesn't mean that he is
infertile.
9. Q) You just can't tell the difference between friendship and love,
you stupid cow.
A) Please pose your insult in the form of a question.
10. Q) I don't care if some fans want to imagine them that way, but
isn't it insane to believe that Roddenberry intended for them to be seen
that way?
A) No. In fact, it's perfectly reasonable. There is ample reason to
believe it was intentional. For one thing, none of the very strong
hints about the Kirk/Spock relationship is in the show by accident. It
took tremendous craft to put it all in there, and everybody who worked
on the show had to cooperate.
11. Q) Come on, if it was true somebody else would have noticed it. It
can't be true because you are the only one who seems to see it.
A) Actually, K/S has been a movement in fan circles since the show was
on the air. K/S fan fiction, related art, and commentaries have quietly
circulated underground for decades. I did not invent it, and I am only
one of many who sees it.
12. Q) My God, if what you are saying is true, it changes everything.
It's positively earthshaking. Therefore it can't possibly be true! Can it?
A) Actually it seriously could be true. It could very well be that
Star Trek was WAY more daring and revolutionary than has been generally
acknowledged, and that's saying a lot. If I'm wrong about this, it
doesn't hurt anybody, but if I'm right (which I think I am), it's
earthshaking: it's stop-the-presses monumental. These guys are not
one-offs - they are not background characters - they are the front and
center stars of the show. It makes "the first interracial kiss on TV"
an insignificant achievement by comparison. It makes Star Trek (which
spawned an international fan phenomenon that is as yet unmatched)
probably the most significant Gay milestone in entertainment history,
and as such one of the top most important TV shows of all time.
13. Q) So, what exactly are you saying?
A) I'm saying that K/S is a legitimate and important Star Trek topic.
It's also a very entertaining Star Trek topic. I'm saying that people
who say it's off-topic are liars or just plain ignorant, or both. BTW,
people who call me a troll and worse are usually nothing but trolls and
worse themselves.
14. Q) I want to talk with you about this, but anybody who tries to
talk with you about K/S, or about anything, like you are a regular
person, gets called names.
A) Yeah, I know. The people who do that are bullies and idiots. You
may safely killfile them, and won't miss anything important.
15. Q) I can't tell if you are joking or what. You post commentaries
that are labeled "humor", yet people attack you like you are serious,
and you defend yourself and K/S like you are serious, so which is it?
A) Well, I tried to keep it light for years, but people won't let me. I
learned to take the topic seriously, since everybody else seems to think
it's so serious. Now, people try to laugh it and me off, but I won't
let them. :) As a Trekkie parodist I started documenting K/S
"evidence" as a joke a few years ago. The more I do it, the less funny
it seems. The truth is that the evidence in favor of K/S does outweigh
opposing evidence, both in quality and quantity, by a huge margin. I'm
not joking about that, I am serious about that. Nevertheless, my
parodies are still intended to be humorous, as always, and as always I
have a reasonable expectation that they will be read and enjoyed as
humor pieces, which is what they are.
16) Q) Didn't Gene Roddenberry deny that there was any truth behind K/S?
A) No, he didn't. To the contrary, he publicly affirmed that the "deep
love" evident between Kirk and Spock was put in the show intentionally
by himself and his team. He admitted that it was a strong enough
affection that it might be sexual - although of course they couldn't
overtly make it explicit that Kirk and Spock were specifically sex
partners in the show.
In ST:TMP novel, Roddenberry introduced the "Vulcan" word T'hy'la, as a
label for the Kirk/Spock relationship. Kirk and Spock are more than
friends or brothers-in-arms: according to Roddenberry, they are
T'hy'la. T'hy'la translates to friend/brother/lover. The creation of
this word was apparently necessary because the terms friend and/or
brother alone were inadequate.
ST3:SFS - in an early voiceover, Kirk says he feels that he left his
"more noble half" (in other words, his better half!) on Genesis.
"More noble half" = "better half" "Better half" = "spouse"
Also in that movie: Kirk says to his superior officer that he considers
Spock's immortal soul to be his responsibility as much as his own is.
So, it's not like he thinks his great love needs to be some big secret.
Kirk sacrifices his career, risks his life, loses the ship - all for
Spock's sake.
http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/defend.jpg
Here's what the Great Bird Himself had to say about the Kirk/Spock
relationship, in an interview:
[Interviewer (speaking of Kirk and Spock)]: "I know you've told us that
you designed that relationship as 'Two halves which come together to
make a whole'. Is that how you still see it?"
[Gene Roddenberry] "Oh yes. As I've said, I definitely designed it as a
love relationship... Absolutely."
[From: Shatner: Where No Man...: The Authorized Biography of William
Shatner (Chapter 7 - Page 145)]
"Brothers" are not "two halves which come together to make a whole".
That's not how people define "brother". It's how people define a marriage.
Kirk and Spock's relationship with each other is clearly the primary
love relationship for both of them. It spans decades, endures terrible
trials, and defies even death. It's MAD LOVE, baby. Kirk and Spock are
madly in love with each other - virtually married - and yes, it's canon.
Therefore, when anybody asserts that Kirk and Spock seem to be in love
and virtually married to one another, that should be generally
recognized as correct.
"There's a great deal of writing in the Star Trek movement which
compares the relationship between Alexander and Hephaistion* to the
relationship between Kirk and Spock - focusing on the closeness of the
friendship, the feeling that they would die for one another..."
[Roddenberry]: "Yes, there's certainly some of that - certainly with
love overtones. Deep love. The only difference being, the Greek ideal -
we never suggested in the series - physical love between the two. But
it's the - we certainly had the feeling that the affection was
sufficient for that, if that were the particular style of the 23rd century."
[From: Shatner: Where No Man...: The Authorized Biography of William
Shatner (Chapter 7 - Page 145, 147-8)]
We *are* intended to understand that Kirk and Spock deeply love each
other, that their relationship is virtually a marriage, and could be
sexual - which is why they enjoy each other so much, and why they go to
such extremes for each other's sakes. It couldn't have been been more
explicit in a 1960's family show.
17. Q) Maybe Kirk is in love with Spock, but he loves women even more,
doesn't he?
A) Not apparently, and neither does Spock. Whatever fleeting interest
either of them shows in any woman is over with by episode's end, and is
usually obviously drug-induced or just plain trivial, or obviously
phony. OTOH, Kirk and Spock's relationship with each other is honestly
and obviously founded on deep mutual fond regard, and dedicated, sincere
devotion. Their relationship with each other is clearly the primary
love relationship for both of them, to the practical exclusion of
everybody else. The other positive relationships in their lives are
either explicitly nothing but friends/comrades, or they are explicitly
minor characters of no abiding importance.
18) Q) Star Trek was not the type of show that would show Gays in a
positive light.
A) Yes, it was. Star Trek is the show that broke many similar
barriers, showing mixed marriages in a positive light, showing
alien/human hybrids in a positive light, showing sexual equality in a
positive light, showing racial mixing in a positive light, and much
more. Star Trek challenged all sorts of bigotry, and I do mean ALL SORTS.
19. Q) Why are so many people so stubbornly adamant that Kirk is
straight as an arrow?
A) I don't know. They apparently have no solid reasons for their
beliefs. People see what they want to see, I guess.
20. Q) Hmm! Very interesting! How can I learn more about K/S?
A) Read this essay:
http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/prooflove.htm
Poke around the rest of the site, then try doing a Google.com search on
the string "Kirk Spock Trek Kirk/Spock K/S", for starters. In
particular, visit the following websites:
Brief K/S history http://beyonddreamspress.com/history.htm
All-ages K/S archive - over 80 authors represented here.
http://www.thyla.com
ABOUT.COM Treksmut links http://scifi.about.com/cs/tosadultslash/
You can read and post K/S fanfic at alt.startrek.creative, or via my
Yahoo Groups fanfic list, TOS-Up. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tos-up/
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| [OT]Re: The official K/S FAQ (Re: FAQ, For All That Are New) [message #59135 ] |
Sa, 11 Juni 2005 21:34 |
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[Off-topic rant snipped]
Please add [OT] to your future off-topic posts.
Or
Please add [OT] to all your posts.
Or
Please stop posting. (this would be the perferred response)
Thank you,
mikey
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| Re: The official K/S FAQ (Re: FAQ, For All That Are New) [message #59143 ] |
So, 12 Juni 2005 03:02 |
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On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 15:22:25 -0400, ToolPackinMama
<laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote:
>The official K/S FAQ
>[By Laura Goodwin. Latest revision: 6/11/05]
>
>
>1. Q) What's the truth about the alt.tv.star-trek.tos FAQ?
<snip>
A. That this isn't the TOS FAQ, and this FAQ is nothing more than
blatant flamebait.
-LMB
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| Re: The official K/S FAQ (Re: FAQ, For All That Are New) [message #59228 ] |
Mo, 13 Juni 2005 03:30 |
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On 6/11/05 2:22 PM, in article 11amefc2nct8r0c [at] news.supernews.com,
"ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote:
> The official K/S FAQ
> [By Laura Goodwin. Latest revision: 6/11/05]
>
>
> 1. Q) What's the truth about the alt.tv.star-trek.tos FAQ?
>
> A) Graeme, a blatant anti-K/Ser, periodically posts an obviously biased
> "alt.tv.star-trek.tos FAQ" primarily to give the false impression that
> K/S is officially off-topic here, and that a perfectly reasonable
> argument in favor of it hasn't been offered - which is deceptive of him.
> Graeme is not the original author of the bogus FAQ, he just edited it to
> add the inflamatory material. After flaming me non-stop for several
> years running to no avail, he now pulls this stunt. It's not even an
> original stunt: Pahsons tried it before him. The original author,
> Connmoore, also was anti-K/S, but at least he had the good taste to keep
> his anti-K/S hatefulness out of his FAQ. In its current form, Graeme's
> "FAQ" is nothing but an elaborate and deceptive flame. He can't seem to
> get it through his head that it's not working. It didn't work when
> Pahsons did it, and it's not working for Graeme, either. Sorry, Graeme.
LOL, I love this FAQ. This has to be one of the funniest things ever! All
this fighting with faqs deal is hilarious!
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