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Science Fiction » alt.startrek » Voyager's Shuttles - Oh! In the pattern buffer!
Voyager's Shuttles - Oh! In the pattern buffer! [message #55801] Di, 07 Juni 2005 14:33
Numan  
I was watching the episode of Voyager where Nelix
leaves Voyager to be the Delta Quadrant Ambassador
this past weekend. He takes his ship out to do something
or other and I thought "where the hell would they have
kept that thing?"

Through the years people have asked HOW Voyager
could have so many shuttles. I think I got it.

If there are removable hard drives connected to the
transporter pattern buffer you could take just about
anything, beam it into the buffer, disconnect that drive
and store it in a room. You could fit a whole fleet
of shuttles or just about anything else in a single
room.

Numan
Re: Voyager's Shuttles - Oh! In the pattern buffer! [message #55837 ] Di, 07 Juni 2005 19:58
dobey the elf  
Numan wrote:
> I was watching the episode of Voyager where Nelix
> leaves Voyager to be the Delta Quadrant Ambassador
> this past weekend. He takes his ship out to do something
> or other and I thought "where the hell would they have
> kept that thing?"
>
> Through the years people have asked HOW Voyager
> could have so many shuttles. I think I got it.
>
> If there are removable hard drives connected to the
> transporter pattern buffer you could take just about
> anything, beam it into the buffer, disconnect that drive
> and store it in a room. You could fit a whole fleet
> of shuttles or just about anything else in a single
> room.
>
> Numan

Well if they could do that, why stop at a space shuttle? Why not just
buffer up a whole fleet of Enterprises and Voyagers?

I think the answer is that the density of the shielding of the
Enterprise or the shuttle is such that it has to be fabricated and not
replicate?
Re: Voyager's Shuttles - Oh! In the pattern buffer! [message #55838 ] Di, 07 Juni 2005 20:29
Numan  
"Dobey the Elfin farmer" <ganeshdances [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1118167081.781570.256540 [at] f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Numan wrote:
>> I was watching the episode of Voyager where Nelix
>> leaves Voyager to be the Delta Quadrant Ambassador
>> this past weekend. He takes his ship out to do something
>> or other and I thought "where the hell would they have
>> kept that thing?"
>>
>> Through the years people have asked HOW Voyager
>> could have so many shuttles. I think I got it.
>>
>> If there are removable hard drives connected to the
>> transporter pattern buffer you could take just about
>> anything, beam it into the buffer, disconnect that drive
>> and store it in a room. You could fit a whole fleet
>> of shuttles or just about anything else in a single
>> room.
>>
>> Numan
>
> Well if they could do that, why stop at a space shuttle? Why not just
> buffer up a whole fleet of Enterprises and Voyagers?
>
> I think the answer is that the density of the shielding of the
> Enterprise or the shuttle is such that it has to be fabricated and not
> replicate?

I have never heard of a limit on what you can and can not
"beam" but I am pretty sure I have seen them do shuttles
and more than one warp core.

Being able to beam and store larger objects would
speed up colonization, both good and bad.
Re: Voyager's Shuttles - Oh! In the pattern buffer! [message #55846 ] Di, 07 Juni 2005 22:28
dobey the elf  
Numan wrote:
> "Dobey the Elfin farmer" <ganeshdances [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1118167081.781570.256540 [at] f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >
> > Numan wrote:
> >> I was watching the episode of Voyager where Nelix
> >> leaves Voyager to be the Delta Quadrant Ambassador
> >> this past weekend. He takes his ship out to do something
> >> or other and I thought "where the hell would they have
> >> kept that thing?"
> >>
> >> Through the years people have asked HOW Voyager
> >> could have so many shuttles. I think I got it.
> >>
> >> If there are removable hard drives connected to the
> >> transporter pattern buffer you could take just about
> >> anything, beam it into the buffer, disconnect that drive
> >> and store it in a room. You could fit a whole fleet
> >> of shuttles or just about anything else in a single
> >> room.
> >>
> >> Numan
> >
> > Well if they could do that, why stop at a space shuttle? Why not just
> > buffer up a whole fleet of Enterprises and Voyagers?
> >
> > I think the answer is that the density of the shielding of the
> > Enterprise or the shuttle is such that it has to be fabricated and not
> > replicate?
>
> I have never heard of a limit on what you can and can not
> "beam" but I am pretty sure I have seen them do shuttles
> and more than one warp core.
>
> Being able to beam and store larger objects would
> speed up colonization, both good and bad.

well why worry about colonization? If you can replicate a starship, why
then can't you replicate a planet or a moon?

That's the point. There has to be an upper limit on the replicator.
Anyway what kind of radiation do they use in ther replicator? UV or
Gamma rays or what??
Re: Voyager's Shuttles - Oh! In the pattern buffer! [message #55859 ] Mi, 08 Juni 2005 00:09
nobody  
Dobey the Elfin farmer wrote:

> Well if they could do that, why stop at a space shuttle? Why not just
> buffer up a whole fleet of Enterprises and Voyagers?

I think they need an existing amount of material and/or energy to do
that. Like you could take 100 pounds of metal and have it re-replicated
into a 100 pound ship or parts or whatever, but you couldn't get 101
pounds out of it.




--
Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall
pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend,
oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of
liberty. This much we pledge—and more.

- President John F. Kennedy, Jan. 20, 1961
Re: Voyager's Shuttles - Oh! In the pattern buffer! [message #55870 ] Mi, 08 Juni 2005 01:13
dobey the elf  
Nobody wrote:
> Dobey the Elfin farmer wrote:
>
> > Well if they could do that, why stop at a space shuttle? Why not just
> > buffer up a whole fleet of Enterprises and Voyagers?
>
> I think they need an existing amount of material and/or energy to do
> that. Like you could take 100 pounds of metal and have it re-replicated
> into a 100 pound ship or parts or whatever, but you couldn't get 101
> pounds out of it.
>

yes but its not a one to one ratio.

also I never really saw any things they put in the replicators before
they made the food. Are you saying it was somewhere in storage? And if
so, how did they they siphon that much material to the ship board
replicators?

No I always went on the basis that they pulled from a energy source for
it sort of like th e engines used dilithium crystials?

Actually my favorite wondering about the enterprise is if they had a
holodeck and we know that they could make people smaller than normal on
it, then I wonder if anyone ever made another enterprise in the
holodeck, and programed that holodeck in the holodeck to make an
enterprise that was programmed to make an enterprise etc... I wonder
how small they could go with the holodeck imageries??
>
>
>
> --
> Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall
> pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend,
> oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of
> liberty. This much we pledge-and more.
>
> - President John F. Kennedy, Jan. 20, 1961
Re: Voyager's Shuttles - Oh! In the pattern buffer! [message #55882 ] Mi, 08 Juni 2005 02:15
species8472  
Dobey the Elfin farmer wrote:
>
> Nobody wrote:
>
>>Dobey the Elfin farmer wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Well if they could do that, why stop at a space shuttle? Why not just
>>>buffer up a whole fleet of Enterprises and Voyagers?
>>
>>I think they need an existing amount of material and/or energy to do
>>that. Like you could take 100 pounds of metal and have it re-replicated
>>into a 100 pound ship or parts or whatever, but you couldn't get 101
>>pounds out of it.
>>
>
>
> yes but its not a one to one ratio.
>
> also I never really saw any things they put in the replicators before
> they made the food. Are you saying it was somewhere in storage? And if
> so, how did they they siphon that much material to the ship board
> replicators?
>
> No I always went on the basis that they pulled from a energy source for
> it sort of like th e engines used dilithium crystials?
>
> Actually my favorite wondering about the enterprise is if they had a
> holodeck and we know that they could make people smaller than normal on
> it, then I wonder if anyone ever made another enterprise in the
> holodeck, and programed that holodeck in the holodeck to make an
> enterprise that was programmed to make an enterprise etc... I wonder
> how small they could go with the holodeck imageries??
>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall
>>pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend,
>>oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of
>>liberty. This much we pledge-and more.
>>
>>- President John F. Kennedy, Jan. 20, 1961
>
>
I can't remember it word for word as I unfortunately lost my copy, but
the TNG Technical Manual stated the replicators worked in a similar
fashion to the transporter, but with a more simple pattern resolution
that couldn't create life.

It does use a storage of stock matter (and in Voyager once they said the
"waste" of the ship went into this matter stockpile) and re-shapes it in
some treknological fashion using both the stock matter and ships power.
It's actually quite power-intensive, but under normal circumstances a
ship can create energy for replication far more easily than trying to
pack enough food for 1000 people for a few years. Under certain battle
conditions, power for replication is limited, which is why they
sometimes have to use replicate energy-efficient ration packs.

That's my understanding from TNG up the timeline, anyway. I've no idea
if Kirk's Enterprise used replicators, protein re-sequencers, or if some
guy was behind the little whole in the wall serving out the green goop.

;)
p
Re: Voyager's Shuttles - Oh! In the pattern buffer! [message #55885 ] Mi, 08 Juni 2005 02:32
Snake  
"Dobey the Elfin farmer" <ganeshdances [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1118186019.221787.295390 [at] f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> yes but its not a one to one ratio.
>
> also I never really saw any things they put in the replicators before
> they made the food. Are you saying it was somewhere in storage? And if
> so, how did they they siphon that much material to the ship board
> replicators?
>
> No I always went on the basis that they pulled from a energy source for
> it sort of like th e engines used dilithium crystials?

No, like your first guess they reorganize simplier molecular patterns into
their desired compounds. According to Relativity the energy needed to
create just about any quantity of matter is so huge not even a matter /
antimatter reactor would be capable of it. BTW, the dilithium crystals are
not "power" according to the Tech Manual (and this makes sense, as there
have been confirmed sources of matter & antimatter flow supplied into the
warp core chamber to actually create the power (see: TNG "Hollow
Pursuits")), they "focus" and moderate the matter / antimatter reaction.

> Actually my favorite wondering about the enterprise is if they had a
> holodeck and we know that they could make people smaller than normal on
> it, then I wonder if anyone ever made another enterprise in the
> holodeck, and programed that holodeck in the holodeck to make an
> enterprise that was programmed to make an enterprise etc... I wonder
> how small they could go with the holodeck imageries??

I would guess infinitely. But it is still an image - or did I miss
something where the holodeck shrinks a human?
Re: Voyager's Shuttles - Oh! In the pattern buffer! [message #55889 ] Mi, 08 Juni 2005 02:52
dobey the elf  
Paddy O'Rourke wrote:
> Dobey the Elfin farmer wrote:
> >
> > Nobody wrote:
> >
> >>Dobey the Elfin farmer wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Well if they could do that, why stop at a space shuttle? Why not just
> >>>buffer up a whole fleet of Enterprises and Voyagers?
> >>
> >>I think they need an existing amount of material and/or energy to do
> >>that. Like you could take 100 pounds of metal and have it re-replicated
> >>into a 100 pound ship or parts or whatever, but you couldn't get 101
> >>pounds out of it.
> >>
> >
> >
> > yes but its not a one to one ratio.
> >
> > also I never really saw any things they put in the replicators before
> > they made the food. Are you saying it was somewhere in storage? And if
> > so, how did they they siphon that much material to the ship board
> > replicators?
> >
> > No I always went on the basis that they pulled from a energy source for
> > it sort of like th e engines used dilithium crystials?
> >
> > Actually my favorite wondering about the enterprise is if they had a
> > holodeck and we know that they could make people smaller than normal on
> > it, then I wonder if anyone ever made another enterprise in the
> > holodeck, and programed that holodeck in the holodeck to make an
> > enterprise that was programmed to make an enterprise etc... I wonder
> > how small they could go with the holodeck imageries??
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall
> >>pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend,
> >>oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of
> >>liberty. This much we pledge-and more.
> >>
> >>- President John F. Kennedy, Jan. 20, 1961
> >
> >
> I can't remember it word for word as I unfortunately lost my copy, but
> the TNG Technical Manual stated the replicators worked in a similar
> fashion to the transporter, but with a more simple pattern resolution
> that couldn't create life.
>
> It does use a storage of stock matter (and in Voyager once they said the
> "waste" of the ship went into this matter stockpile) and re-shapes it in
> some treknological fashion using both the stock matter and ships power.
> It's actually quite power-intensive, but under normal circumstances a
> ship can create energy for replication far more easily than trying to
> pack enough food for 1000 people for a few years. Under certain battle
> conditions, power for replication is limited, which is why they
> sometimes have to use replicate energy-efficient ration packs.
>
> That's my understanding from TNG up the timeline, anyway. I've no idea
> if Kirk's Enterprise used replicators, protein re-sequencers, or if some
> guy was behind the little whole in the wall serving out the green goop.
>
> ;)
> p

I stand corrected.

As a kid I always thought the blue food on Star Trek was so exotic!

Has anyone ever made "Andorian Brandy" under a private label?
Re: Voyager's Shuttles - Oh! In the pattern buffer! [message #55890 ] Mi, 08 Juni 2005 02:54
dobey the elf  
Snake wrote:
> "Dobey the Elfin farmer" <ganeshdances [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1118186019.221787.295390 [at] f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > yes but its not a one to one ratio.
> >
> > also I never really saw any things they put in the replicators before
> > they made the food. Are you saying it was somewhere in storage? And if
> > so, how did they they siphon that much material to the ship board
> > replicators?
> >
> > No I always went on the basis that they pulled from a energy source for
> > it sort of like th e engines used dilithium crystials?
>
> No, like your first guess they reorganize simplier molecular patterns into
> their desired compounds. According to Relativity the energy needed to
> create just about any quantity of matter is so huge not even a matter /
> antimatter reactor would be capable of it. BTW, the dilithium crystals are
> not "power" according to the Tech Manual (and this makes sense, as there
> have been confirmed sources of matter & antimatter flow supplied into the
> warp core chamber to actually create the power (see: TNG "Hollow
> Pursuits")), they "focus" and moderate the matter / antimatter reaction.
>
> > Actually my favorite wondering about the enterprise is if they had a
> > holodeck and we know that they could make people smaller than normal on
> > it, then I wonder if anyone ever made another enterprise in the
> > holodeck, and programed that holodeck in the holodeck to make an
> > enterprise that was programmed to make an enterprise etc... I wonder
> > how small they could go with the holodeck imageries??
>
> I would guess infinitely. But it is still an image - or did I miss
> something where the holodeck shrinks a human?

no but alot of the tv shows were done from the viewpoint of the
holodeck. So i would have to say it is some sort of visual cortex link
in there?

In fact though they never really addressed how it was that they fit the
whole of London (remember Data tracking Jack the Ripper type person?)
in a holodeck that in other episdoes like when the alien pretends to be
Geordi's mother, it seems to me on the holodeck size *does* matter
(..I just couldn't resist..)
Re: Voyager's Shuttles - Oh! In the pattern buffer! [message #55896 ] Mi, 08 Juni 2005 05:15
Snake  
"Dobey the Elfin farmer" <ganeshdances [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1118192087.430983.293580 [at] g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> no but alot of the tv shows were done from the viewpoint of the
> holodeck. So i would have to say it is some sort of visual cortex link
> in there?

The hologram matrix. A holodeck is a combination of holographics (for
images), replicators (to create certain physical objects to interact with)
and forcefields. The forcefields have a variety of uses, such as:

> In fact though they never really addressed how it was that they fit the
> whole of London (remember Data tracking Jack the Ripper type person?)
> in a holodeck that in other episdoes like when the alien pretends to be
> Geordi's mother, it seems to me on the holodeck size *does* matter
> (..I just couldn't resist..)

They don't fit the "whole" of London in the holodeck. The area around the
people are actual object recreated with the forcefields to, say, create a
"wall" then the holographics overlay an image of a physical wall on the
forcefield "wall". Everything beyond the immediate interaction area of a
person is simply images - holographics - made to look like a distant scene.
Now, when a person moves a forcefield "treadmill" allows the person to walk
long distances (based upon that person's perception of energy expended) yet
stay within the physical confines of the holodeck thanks to being on a
'treadmill' - their legs move, yet their body does not.

Very sneaky. So they shrink space by fake imagery and moving floors,
amongst other things. Think of something similar to a "Haunted House" that
you go through at an entertainment park except the objects move around you
rather than you moving through the object's displays.
Re: Voyager's Shuttles - Oh! In the pattern buffer! [message #57410 ] Mi, 08 Juni 2005 14:48
Jaxtraw  
"Snake" <fluidstates_NO+SPAM [at] REMOVE-ME.verizon.IHATESPAM.SPAM_VAC.com> wrote
in message news:7ptpe.6710$nk4.5012 [at] trndny01...
> "Dobey the Elfin farmer" <ganeshdances [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1118192087.430983.293580 [at] g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > no but alot of the tv shows were done from the viewpoint of the
> > holodeck. So i would have to say it is some sort of visual cortex link
> > in there?
>
> The hologram matrix. A holodeck is a combination of holographics (for
> images), replicators (to create certain physical objects to interact with)
> and forcefields. The forcefields have a variety of uses, such as:
>
> > In fact though they never really addressed how it was that they fit the
> > whole of London (remember Data tracking Jack the Ripper type person?)
> > in a holodeck that in other episdoes like when the alien pretends to be
> > Geordi's mother, it seems to me on the holodeck size *does* matter
> > (..I just couldn't resist..)
>
> They don't fit the "whole" of London in the holodeck. The area around the
> people are actual object recreated with the forcefields to, say, create a
> "wall" then the holographics overlay an image of a physical wall on the
> forcefield "wall". Everything beyond the immediate interaction area of a
> person is simply images - holographics - made to look like a distant
scene.
> Now, when a person moves a forcefield "treadmill" allows the person to
walk
> long distances (based upon that person's perception of energy expended)
yet
> stay within the physical confines of the holodeck thanks to being on a
> 'treadmill' - their legs move, yet their body does not.
>
> Very sneaky. So they shrink space by fake imagery and moving floors,
> amongst other things. Think of something similar to a "Haunted House"
that
> you go through at an entertainment park except the objects move around you
> rather than you moving through the object's displays.
>
>

I wonder what the holodeck would do, though, if two people went in with a
100m tape measure. Starting from a point, they walk in opposite directions
until the tape measure is taut... ;)

Ian

--
____________________
A quality online comic strip for the discerning reader.
With shagging in it.
http://www.jaxtrawstudios.com
Free daily rude toons
http://www.lewdart.com
Re: Voyager's Shuttles - Oh! In the pattern buffer! [message #57416 ] Mi, 08 Juni 2005 16:31
Numan  
"Numan" <tbrdmann [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:7Ilpe.1776$751.423 [at] newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Dobey the Elfin farmer" <ganeshdances [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1118167081.781570.256540 [at] f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>> Numan wrote:
>>> I was watching the episode of Voyager where Nelix
>>> leaves Voyager to be the Delta Quadrant Ambassador
>>> this past weekend. He takes his ship out to do something
>>> or other and I thought "where the hell would they have
>>> kept that thing?"
>>>
>>> Through the years people have asked HOW Voyager
>>> could have so many shuttles. I think I got it.
>>>
>>> If there are removable hard drives connected to the
>>> transporter pattern buffer you could take just about
>>> anything, beam it into the buffer, disconnect that drive
>>> and store it in a room. You could fit a whole fleet
>>> of shuttles or just about anything else in a single
>>> room.
>>>
>>> Numan
>>
>> Well if they could do that, why stop at a space shuttle? Why not just
>> buffer up a whole fleet of Enterprises and Voyagers?
>>
>> I think the answer is that the density of the shielding of the
>> Enterprise or the shuttle is such that it has to be fabricated and not
>> replicate?
>
> I have never heard of a limit on what you can and can not
> "beam" but I am pretty sure I have seen them do shuttles
> and more than one warp core.
>
> Being able to beam and store larger objects would
> speed up colonization, both good and bad.

A new type of tricorder that is part tricorder and part transporter
where you can take your Starfleet Pen Drive, plug it into the side
and transport a shuttle from the hard drive back to solid matter.
Just think, you could take a small pack of USB (I mean Starfleet)
drives on an away mission. You run into trouble and your shuttle
crashes (as it seems very likely) and you can replicate a new one
once you crash. :-) Yes, I know it would seriously shorter the
away mission/shuttle crash episodes.
Re: Voyager's Shuttles - Oh! In the pattern buffer! [message #57418 ] Mi, 08 Juni 2005 17:08
dobey the elf  
Jaxtraw wrote:
> "Snake" <fluidstates_NO+SPAM [at] REMOVE-ME.verizon.IHATESPAM.SPAM_VAC.com> wrote
> in message news:7ptpe.6710$nk4.5012 [at] trndny01...
> > "Dobey the Elfin farmer" <ganeshdances [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:1118192087.430983.293580 [at] g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > > no but alot of the tv shows were done from the viewpoint of the
> > > holodeck. So i would have to say it is some sort of visual cortex link
> > > in there?
> >
> > The hologram matrix. A holodeck is a combination of holographics (for
> > images), replicators (to create certain physical objects to interact with)
> > and forcefields. The forcefields have a variety of uses, such as:
> >
> > > In fact though they never really addressed how it was that they fit the
> > > whole of London (remember Data tracking Jack the Ripper type person?)
> > > in a holodeck that in other episdoes like when the alien pretends to be
> > > Geordi's mother, it seems to me on the holodeck size *does* matter
> > > (..I just couldn't resist..)
> >
> > They don't fit the "whole" of London in the holodeck. The area around the
> > people are actual object recreated with the forcefields to, say, create a
> > "wall" then the holographics overlay an image of a physical wall on the
> > forcefield "wall". Everything beyond the immediate interaction area of a
> > person is simply images - holographics - made to look like a distant
> scene.
> > Now, when a person moves a forcefield "treadmill" allows the person to
> walk
> > long distances (based upon that person's perception of energy expended)
> yet
> > stay within the physical confines of the holodeck thanks to being on a
> > 'treadmill' - their legs move, yet their body does not.
> >
> > Very sneaky. So they shrink space by fake imagery and moving floors,
> > amongst other things. Think of something similar to a "Haunted House"
> that
> > you go through at an entertainment park except the objects move around you
> > rather than you moving through the object's displays.
> >
> >
>
> I wonder what the holodeck would do, though, if two people went in with a
> 100m tape measure. Starting from a point, they walk in opposite directions
> until the tape measure is taut... ;)

its that the definition of tautology?
>
> Ian
>
> --
> ____________________
> A quality online comic strip for the discerning reader.
> With shagging in it.
> http://www.jaxtrawstudios.com
> Free daily rude toons
> http://www.lewdart.com
Re: Voyager's Shuttles - Oh! In the pattern buffer! [message #57427 ] Mi, 08 Juni 2005 22:07
Numan  
"Jaxtraw" <jaxtraw [at] nospamnobigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:42a6e852$0$32619$ed2619ec [at] ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
> "Snake" <fluidstates_NO+SPAM [at] REMOVE-ME.verizon.IHATESPAM.SPAM_VAC.com>
> wrote
> in message news:7ptpe.6710$nk4.5012 [at] trndny01...
>> "Dobey the Elfin farmer" <ganeshdances [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1118192087.430983.293580 [at] g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> > no but alot of the tv shows were done from the viewpoint of the
>> > holodeck. So i would have to say it is some sort of visual cortex link
>> > in there?
>>
>> The hologram matrix. A holodeck is a combination of holographics (for
>> images), replicators (to create certain physical objects to interact
>> with)
>> and forcefields. The forcefields have a variety of uses, such as:
>>
>> > In fact though they never really addressed how it was that they fit the
>> > whole of London (remember Data tracking Jack the Ripper type person?)
>> > in a holodeck that in other episdoes like when the alien pretends to be
>> > Geordi's mother, it seems to me on the holodeck size *does* matter
>> > (..I just couldn't resist..)
>>
>> They don't fit the "whole" of London in the holodeck. The area around
>> the
>> people are actual object recreated with the forcefields to, say, create a
>> "wall" then the holographics overlay an image of a physical wall on the
>> forcefield "wall". Everything beyond the immediate interaction area of a
>> person is simply images - holographics - made to look like a distant
> scene.
>> Now, when a person moves a forcefield "treadmill" allows the person to
> walk
>> long distances (based upon that person's perception of energy expended)
> yet
>> stay within the physical confines of the holodeck thanks to being on a
>> 'treadmill' - their legs move, yet their body does not.
>>
>> Very sneaky. So they shrink space by fake imagery and moving floors,
>> amongst other things. Think of something similar to a "Haunted House"
> that
>> you go through at an entertainment park except the objects move around
>> you
>> rather than you moving through the object's displays.
>>
>>
>
> I wonder what the holodeck would do, though, if two people went in with a
> 100m tape measure. Starting from a point, they walk in opposite directions
> until the tape measure is taut... ;)
>
> Ian

THAT is what Trek used to do really well. It took simple questions like that
and SHOWED us the answer. That would be very cool for them to show.
That is also why we need a Trek series on TV. Simple things like that would
never make it to the big screen because it wouldn't seem important. Cool
little
things like are perfect for TV. I want to know what the inside of a
Tricorder
looks like.

Numan
Re: Voyager's Shuttles - Oh! In the pattern buffer! [message #57437 ] Mi, 08 Juni 2005 23:36
Snake  
"Jaxtraw" <jaxtraw [at] nospamnobigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:42a6e852$0$32619$ed2619ec [at] ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
> I wonder what the holodeck would do, though, if two people went in with a
> 100m tape measure. Starting from a point, they walk in opposite directions
> until the tape measure is taut... ;)

You would, according to the standard operating procedures of the holodeck,
never get it taut. It's an /illusion/, nothing more. It is not meant to
absolutely create reality inside a chamber, it is designed to give the
'illusion' of a space being inside that chamber. Just like when Data throws
a rock against the holodeck's wall in "Encounter at Farpoint", the illusion
can really only go so far. It is simply the lack of absolute infinite
abilities of human perception that makes it all seem "seamlessly" real.
Re: Voyager's Shuttles - Oh! In the pattern buffer! [message #58180 ] Do, 09 Juni 2005 14:03
species8472  
Snake wrote:
> "Jaxtraw" <jaxtraw [at] nospamnobigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:42a6e852$0$32619$ed2619ec [at] ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>
>>I wonder what the holodeck would do, though, if two people went in with a
>>100m tape measure. Starting from a point, they walk in opposite directions
>>until the tape measure is taut... ;)
>
>
> You would, according to the standard operating procedures of the holodeck,
> never get it taut. It's an /illusion/, nothing more. It is not meant to
> absolutely create reality inside a chamber, it is designed to give the
> 'illusion' of a space being inside that chamber. Just like when Data throws
> a rock against the holodeck's wall in "Encounter at Farpoint", the illusion
> can really only go so far. It is simply the lack of absolute infinite
> abilities of human perception that makes it all seem "seamlessly" real.
>
>
According to the TNG Technical Manual (which also doesn't describe
holograms and photons and forcefields but rather "holo-matter" -- maybe
the tech got upgraded by the time Voyager's EMH came into being) the
"treadmill" effect described earlier would happen the same way if two
people went into the holodeck and walked a mile in opposite directions
away from each other. They'd see the other person as far away due to
the treadmill effect, but in reality they would be in much closer
physical proximity to the other person...

The Manual states the holodeck has an upper limit as to how many people
it could add into this effect and not have them notice something was
off, but gives no indication as to what this limit would be.

AS far as replicating shuttles, I believe it's only the warp core and
warp coils in the nacelles that can't be replicated. For some reason I
seem to remember them mentioning this in Voyager when they were building
the Delta Flyer, but I'll have to watch the eps again to be sure...

;)
Re: Voyager's Shuttles - Oh! In the pattern buffer! [message #58201 ] Do, 09 Juni 2005 16:50
Numan  
"Paddy O'Rourke" <species8472 [at] bluebottle.com> wrote in message
news:LeWpe.11282$_n2.1005942 [at] news20.bellglobal.com...
> Snake wrote:
>> "Jaxtraw" <jaxtraw [at] nospamnobigfoot.com> wrote in message
>> news:42a6e852$0$32619$ed2619ec [at] ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>>
>>>I wonder what the holodeck would do, though, if two people went in with a
>>>100m tape measure. Starting from a point, they walk in opposite
>>>directions
>>>until the tape measure is taut... ;)
>>
>>
>> You would, according to the standard operating procedures of the
>> holodeck,
>> never get it taut. It's an /illusion/, nothing more. It is not meant to
>> absolutely create reality inside a chamber, it is designed to give the
>> 'illusion' of a space being inside that chamber. Just like when Data
>> throws
>> a rock against the holodeck's wall in "Encounter at Farpoint", the
>> illusion
>> can really only go so far. It is simply the lack of absolute infinite
>> abilities of human perception that makes it all seem "seamlessly" real.
>>
>>
> According to the TNG Technical Manual (which also doesn't describe
> holograms and photons and forcefields but rather "holo-matter" -- maybe
> the tech got upgraded by the time Voyager's EMH came into being) the
> "treadmill" effect described earlier would happen the same way if two
> people went into the holodeck and walked a mile in opposite directions
> away from each other. They'd see the other person as far away due to the
> treadmill effect, but in reality they would be in much closer physical
> proximity to the other person...
>
> The Manual states the holodeck has an upper limit as to how many people it
> could add into this effect and not have them notice something was off, but
> gives no indication as to what this limit would be.
>
> AS far as replicating shuttles, I believe it's only the warp core and warp
> coils in the nacelles that can't be replicated. For some reason I seem to
> remember them mentioning this in Voyager when they were building the Delta
> Flyer, but I'll have to watch the eps again to be sure...

I think that is why the concept of Fairhaven worked. Because they expanded
it into all the holodecks and even into the cargo bays using holo-emitters.
(I
wonder how many holodecks a Roman Orgy would consume?) ha ha ha
Sorry, couldn't help taking it there.
Re: Voyager's Shuttles - Oh! In the pattern buffer! [message #60614 ] Mo, 13 Juni 2005 14:32
Andrew Murray  
"Numan" <tbrdmann [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:Tugpe.617$%j7.408 [at] newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
>I was watching the episode of Voyager where Nelix
> leaves Voyager to be the Delta Quadrant Ambassador
> this past weekend. He takes his ship out to do something
> or other and I thought "where the hell would they have
> kept that thing?"
>
> Through the years people have asked HOW Voyager
> could have so many shuttles. I think I got it.
>
> If there are removable hard drives connected to the
> transporter pattern buffer you could take just about
> anything, beam it into the buffer, disconnect that drive
> and store it in a room. You could fit a whole fleet
> of shuttles or just about anything else in a single
> room.
>
> Numan
I though they built new shuttles - from replicated parts - that's how they
built the delta flyer....
Re: Voyager's Shuttles - Oh! In the pattern buffer! [message #60628 ] Mo, 13 Juni 2005 20:33
Numan  
"Andrew Murray" <Noadmurray [at] SPAMiinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:42ad7cd0$0$2449$5a62ac22 [at] per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>
> "Numan" <tbrdmann [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:Tugpe.617$%j7.408 [at] newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
>>I was watching the episode of Voyager where Nelix
>> leaves Voyager to be the Delta Quadrant Ambassador
>> this past weekend. He takes his ship out to do something
>> or other and I thought "where the hell would they have
>> kept that thing?"
>>
>> Through the years people have asked HOW Voyager
>> could have so many shuttles. I think I got it.
>>
>> If there are removable hard drives connected to the
>> transporter pattern buffer you could take just about
>> anything, beam it into the buffer, disconnect that drive
>> and store it in a room. You could fit a whole fleet
>> of shuttles or just about anything else in a single
>> room.
>>
>> Numan
> I though they built new shuttles - from replicated parts - that's how they
> built the delta flyer....

They assumably do. But, I just thought that it would be more efficient
and space saving if you could build them in a plant, dematerialize
them with the transporters, store them on a hard drive, and rematerialize
them when needed. Saves time and space.

Numan
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