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Science Fiction » alt.startrek » Saving Star Trek XI
Saving Star Trek XI [message #53657] Fr, 03 Juni 2005 23:08
Marshall Karp  
IMHO, they better call
Nicholas Meyer
ASAP.
Re: Saving Star Trek XI [message #53663 ] Fr, 03 Juni 2005 23:15
nobody  
Marshall Karp wrote:

> IMHO, they better call
> Nicholas Meyer
> ASAP.

It might also be wise to have a good script. Time to bring back Kirk!!




--
Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall
pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend,
oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of
liberty. This much we pledge—and more.

- President John F. Kennedy, Jan. 20, 1961
Re: Saving Star Trek XI [message #53811 ] Mo, 06 Juni 2005 02:27
Christmas On Mars  
"Nobody" <abuse [at] microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:cM3oe.94173$IO.38922 [at] tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
> Marshall Karp wrote:
>
>> IMHO, they better call
>> Nicholas Meyer
>> ASAP.
>
> It might also be wise to have a good script. Time to bring back Kirk!!
>
Finding some ridiculously unlikely to bring back a fat reminiscent of a
once-iconic character would not constitute a good script.
Re: Saving Star Trek XI [message #53813 ] Mo, 06 Juni 2005 02:58
Snake  
"Christmas On Mars" <Flaming.Lips [at] RULE.nul> wrote in message
news:JLMoe.1635$HT1.1542 [at] twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>
> "Nobody" <abuse [at] microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:cM3oe.94173$IO.38922 [at] tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
>> Marshall Karp wrote:
>>
>>> IMHO, they better call
>>> Nicholas Meyer
>>> ASAP.
>>
>> It might also be wise to have a good script. Time to bring back Kirk!!
>>
> Finding some ridiculously unlikely to bring back a fat reminiscent of a
> once-iconic character would not constitute a good script.

It's a damn shame, really. I am a huge fan of ST:TMP and Shatner's Kirk
looked just about the best he ever had since the first year of TOS. Slim,
full of vigor and spirit with a gleam in his eye to get his starship command
life going again. And - go ahead, hate me - I loved the costumes. I would
have given **anything** to see that Admiral Kirk, now back in control of the
starship that made him a legend, in the front lines of adventure again in a
spectacular movie.

We got ST:TWOK. A very good movie, sure, but visually not up to TMP.
Shatner's Kirk does not look as "good", IMHO, nor are the uniforms so sleek
and "futuristic" looking. They went backwards for the inspiration for the
uniforms to quell fan's (negative) reactions to TMP's uniforms but - I'm
sorry - the balloon-ankle pants are *too* backwards and /very/ irritating to
watch on the characters. The cast just doesn't, to me, look as
"professional" as I think they should in a 23rd century Starfleet. They
look *devastating* "professional" in TMP, ready to meet just about
/anything/.

[dons flame suit]
Re: Saving Star Trek XI [message #53816 ] Mo, 06 Juni 2005 03:29
Jaxtraw  
"Snake" <fluidstates_NO+SPAM [at] REMOVE-ME.verizon.IHATESPAM.SPAM_VAC.com> wrote
in message news:5dNoe.527$5M2.318 [at] trndny06...
> "Christmas On Mars" <Flaming.Lips [at] RULE.nul> wrote in message
> news:JLMoe.1635$HT1.1542 [at] twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> >
> > "Nobody" <abuse [at] microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > news:cM3oe.94173$IO.38922 [at] tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
> >> Marshall Karp wrote:
> >>
> >>> IMHO, they better call
> >>> Nicholas Meyer
> >>> ASAP.
> >>
> >> It might also be wise to have a good script. Time to bring back Kirk!!
> >>
> > Finding some ridiculously unlikely to bring back a fat reminiscent of a
> > once-iconic character would not constitute a good script.
>
> It's a damn shame, really. I am a huge fan of ST:TMP and Shatner's Kirk
> looked just about the best he ever had since the first year of TOS. Slim,
> full of vigor and spirit with a gleam in his eye to get his starship
command
> life going again. And - go ahead, hate me - I loved the costumes. I
would
> have given **anything** to see that Admiral Kirk, now back in control of
the
> starship that made him a legend, in the front lines of adventure again in
a
> spectacular movie.
>
> We got ST:TWOK. A very good movie, sure, but visually not up to TMP.
> Shatner's Kirk does not look as "good", IMHO, nor are the uniforms so
sleek
> and "futuristic" looking. They went backwards for the inspiration for the
> uniforms to quell fan's (negative) reactions to TMP's uniforms but - I'm
> sorry - the balloon-ankle pants are *too* backwards and /very/ irritating
to
> watch on the characters. The cast just doesn't, to me, look as
> "professional" as I think they should in a 23rd century Starfleet. They
> look *devastating* "professional" in TMP, ready to meet just about
> /anything/.
>
> [dons flame suit]
>
>

TMP's story wasn't strong enough- the crew are bystanders for most of the
movie, and the other star, the Enterprise, doesn't get put through her paces
as she should have been... but I agree that in terms of the look and
direction, TMP should have been the template. It's the only movie where
Starfleet really looks as it should, as a huge military organisation that
bustles. I find it a very watchable movie.

I don't think much of the TMP uniforms, but the ones that followed aren't
much to write home about either. And whoever designed Kirk's fey civvies for
III and IV should be taken out back and given a stern talking to. Appalling.

As to why for TWOK they restarted the story (it only really struck me
recently); in TMP Kirk starts as a shore-bound admiral who wants his ship
back, he gets it back, then in the next movie Kirk is a shorebound admiral
who wants his ship back... I don't know why they did that, it was
unnecessary and silly.

Anyway, the low budgets of the movies after TMP means they're all to some
degree crippled. Having said that, that's still no excuse for the risible TV
movie with those fucking whales in it.

Ian

--
____________________
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With shagging in it.
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Re: Saving Star Trek XI [message #53817 ] Mo, 06 Juni 2005 04:17
Snake  
"Jaxtraw" <jaxtraw [at] nospamnobigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:42a3a62f$0$41897$ed2619ec [at] ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...
> As to why for TWOK they restarted the story (it only really struck me
> recently); in TMP Kirk starts as a shore-bound admiral who wants his ship
> back, he gets it back, then in the next movie Kirk is a shorebound admiral
> who wants his ship back... I don't know why they did that, it was
> unnecessary and silly.

Exactly. The setup of TWOK is quite ridiculous - deja vu all over again.
And then those uniforms (again) - it is less than 3 years from TMP to TWOK
in RL yet, thanks to those new uniforms, it looks much (much) longer. The
actors look older, heavier, stuffier in those heavy, layered outfits. They
are in a climate-controlled starship - why the heavy clothing? All the
"ribbed" area just makes the heavy suit look heavy on the actors - who are
heavier thanks to age. It's amazing how much older Shatner looks, and
handles himself (that is, how the director handled him) in TWOK versus TMP
yet only 3 RL years have elapsed.

I would have loved the look and feel of TMP to have gone on through TWOK.
The crew in TMP where as you expected future trained professionals to be -
at the top of their form, snap abilities and mental prowess, meeting the
unknown head on and liking it, wanting it. TWOK even the command crew were
a bit off the ball, feeling "friendly group" but not as "professional" as I
would, personally, expect the crew of an advanced, front line starship to
be. That is, the best people in the business, the best and brightest
around. First and second year TNG was like that; the crew was a bit
disjointed, not really working to peak. But third season TNG they kicked
into high gear, on the ball! They felt integrated, trained out the wazoo,
knowledgable. /Professional/.

> Anyway, the low budgets of the movies after TMP means they're all to some
> degree crippled. Having said that, that's still no excuse for the risible
> TV
> movie with those fucking whales in it.

I do not have a problem with TVH - compared to Generations, Insurrection and
Nemesis give me "stupid whales" any day. At least TVH was enjoyable to
watch, watching Kirk and Spock squirm a bit as they tried to get out of
their sticky situation as best they could. It was fun and a touch of
ecology lesson (far fetched and *highly* questionable but the absolute
motive is sound) to boot. I'll take a bit of "stretched to be Star Trek",
but at least very fun to watch, movie over the *incredible* plodding of B&B
in any part of a quantum second. Berman & Braga's ability to screw just
about anything and everything is turning legendary and makes...just about
everything else look good. ;-)
Re: Saving Star Trek XI [message #53819 ] Mo, 06 Juni 2005 06:26
nobody  
Christmas On Mars wrote:

> Finding some ridiculously unlikely to bring back a fat reminiscent of a
> once-iconic character would not constitute a good script.

I'd bet a million dollars and my first-born child that any script
bringing back Kirk would make more money than that abomination called,
"Nemesis."



--
Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall
pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend,
oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of
liberty. This much we pledge—and more.

- President John F. Kennedy, Jan. 20, 1961
Re: Saving Star Trek XI [message #53824 ] Mo, 06 Juni 2005 10:27
George Kourtesis  
>
> As to why for TWOK they restarted the story (it only really struck me
> recently); in TMP Kirk starts as a shore-bound admiral who wants his ship
> back, he gets it back, then in the next movie Kirk is a shorebound admiral
> who wants his ship back... I don't know why they did that, it was
> unnecessary and silly.
>
>

Because Flag Oficers don't command ships, they command squadrons, Task
Forces and Fleets. Even if Admiral Kirk made the Enterprise his Flagship it
would still be commanded by a Captain, and should Kirk be interfering with
that Command in any way instead of looking after the needs of the group of
ships assigned to him would be a dereliction of duty. The only way he can
get a ship command is to be busted down to Captain. Where the films got it
wrong is if the Captain onboard becomes incapacitated, a higher ranking
officer doesn't take over his duties, but next available officer down from
the Captain does.

Regards
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