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Fantasy » alt.fan.tolkien » OT “Computer Glitches” Beat John Kerry” or How to Rig a Second Election
| OT “Computer Glitches” Beat John Kerry” or How to Rig a Second Election [message #47358] |
Do, 26 Mai 2005 13:25 |
|
Election Official Thwarts Recount Using Phony Vote Totals
December 14,2004 -Venice, FL.
by Daniel Hopsicker
URL: http://www.madcowprod.com/12142004.html
A “mistake” made in the office of a seriously-compromised Supervisor of
Election in Pinellas County whose husband is a top executive of the
country’s largest election services company has almost unnoticed spiked
the best hope for a election recount in Florida that might have thrown a
spotlight on the dark corners of the Florida election process concealing
widespread systemic and system-wide vote fraud.
The office of Supervisor of Elections in Pinellas County, Deborah Clark,
provided inflated totals on the YES side of the gambling initiative which
were then used by state officials in the official state tally of the
hotly-contested gambling initiative known as Amendment 4.
The initiative would allow casino slot machine gambling in South Florida,
an outcome devoutly to be wished by owners of the spanking new $700
million Hard Rock Café Casino in Hollywood, Florida, a facility all
dressed up but with currently nowhere to go.
Pinellas County voters defeated the gambling initiative by more than
17,000 votes. But the official state record says the exact opposite, the
result of a “mistake” by the office of Pinellas Elections Supervisor
which would have gone unnoticed, said local reports, had it not been
caught by outside observers.
Advantage Hard Rock
A recount of Florida’s votes on the state gambling initiative offered an
opportunity to correlate what was found with what are so far just
“theories” of how the Presidential election in Florida might have been
stolen.
Deborah Clark provided an extra 34,000 votes on the YES side of the
gambling initiative, sufficient to legally preclude what would have
otherwise been a mandated recount.
Ms. Clark’s performance had been questioned in press accounts before,
most recently after the 2002 primary contest, when newspaper headlines
read “Clark's election flubs draw fire.”
Strangely, no one can said to have benefited more from the inadvertent
mistake than Clark’s own husband. As a longtime top executive with E S &
S, the company which counts more than half the U.S. vote, Richard Clark
probably had more to lose from a recount than almost anyone alive…
Should rumored anomalies surface in the recount, the fortunes of any
elections firms involved would no doubt suffer.
“Computer Glitches” Beat John Kerry”
A recount of the gambling initiative, known as Amendment 4, election
experts said, would have offered clues as to how and why 90,000 extra YES
votes for gambling were recorded in Broward County, for example.
This number is almost equal to the “extra” votes for President Bush cast
in Broward County which researchers say were inexplicable except through
manipulated electronic vote tabulation—which were counted in the same
county’s tally.
Recording phony vote totals seemed a system wide and systemic problem,
and only AFTER being discovered by an outside observer were the wrong
totals corrected. For example, Vincent Profaci, an attorney near Orlando
went to bed with Kerry way ahead in his home county of Orange.
When he woke up he discovered to his horror that Kerry had fallen
inexplicably behind.
Officials excused the 34,000-vote mistake as a computer glitch.
In fact, almost every time vote fraud was discovered by election
observers, it was blandly explained away as nothing but a “computer or
software glitch.”
Newsflash: “COMPUTER GLITCHES” beat John Kerrey in Florida.
Let’s take a closer look at things like this can happen. Lets take a look
at what happened in Pinellas County.
"How To Fix An Election for Dummies"
Gov. Jeb Bush appointed Deborah Clark election supervisor in Pinellas
County, Florida, in May of 2000.
Trouble began almost immediately. Some of it was even funny…
For example, in the Aug. 31 2002 primary, the population of an entire
small town— 12,498 voters— appeared at the polls in Hillsborough County
and apparently decided not to vote in the race for state attorney.
The town cast votes in all the other contests, but not in the race for
state attorney. Had there been a town-wide secret pact?
To this day no one is sure why those voters didn't vote, or if they did,
what might have happened to their votes. They are “ghost votes,” floating
in the ether. The local papers labeled it “A Voting Mystery.”
More seriously, while Deborah Clark had worked as a top official in the
Pinellas Supervisor of Elections Office, her husband Richard Clark’s
employer Elections Systems & Software, was awarded more than $400,000 in
business with the office, and was up for a lucrative contract worth as
much as $15-million to sell new voting machines to Pinellas County.
Clark, who hadn’t disclosed the connection, hotly denied a conflict of
interest. “Neither my husband nor I would ever do anything that would
compromise the integrity of the elections office, or our own personal
integrity," she said.
Clark's failure to disclose that her husband was working for a voting
machine company bidding for Pinellas' business, coupled with the
last-minute revelation that the executive who would have managed
Pinellas' elections for Sequoia Voting Systems, the company the county
chose, was under indictment in Louisiana, left a bit of a sour taste.
Elections in Pinellas County have been occasions for holding your breath
for several election cycles.
"A reputation for corruption to be proud of."
So when, on the day of the 2004 Presidential election, numerous anecdotes
from voters in Pinellas County reported problems like voting for Kerry
and having the vote register for Bush, (see “pressing Bernacker and
getting Giambelluca” described in a previous story) it did not come as a
tremendous shock.
Roberta Harvey, 57, of Clearwater, Fla., said she had tried at least a
half dozen times to select Kerry-Edwards when she voted Tuesday at
Northwood Presbyterian Church, said an Associated Press report .
“After 10 minutes trying to change her selection, the Pinellas County
resident said she called a poll worker and got a wet-wipe napkin to clean
the touch screen as well as a pencil so she could use its eraser-end
instead of her finger. Harvey said it took about 10 attempts to select
Kerry before and a summary screen confirmed her intended selection,” said
the account.
“Election officials in several Florida counties where voters complained
about such problems did not return calls Tuesday night,” reported the
Associated Press on Nov. 4. And things haven’t changed since.
A spokeswoman for the company that makes the touch-screen machines used
in Pinellas, Palm Beach and two other Florida counties, Alfie Charles of
Sequoia Voting Systems, said the machines' monitors may need to be
recalibrated periodically.
Sequoia is the second-largest election services company, with roughly
one-third of the voting machine market. In 1999, the Justice Department
filed federal charges against Sequoia alleging that employees paid out
more than $ 8 million in bribes.
Pinellas County purchased voting equipment from Sequoia worth $14
million, even after discovering that Phil Foster, a Sequoia executive,
faced indictment in Louisiana for money laundering and corruption.
The Tampa Tribune stated “Pinellas County Supervisor of Elections Deborah
Clark's high praise of Sequoia Voting Systems was instrumental in the
company's landing a $14 million contract with the county in 2001.”
“We’re from the Government. We’re here to help.”
Fifteen Florida counties now use touch-screen machines, including Palm
Beach, Broward and Miami-Dade. They had scurried to buy the voting
machines after the Legislature outlawed punch-card balloting in the wake
of the hanging chad controversy of the 2000 presidential election.
In December 2001, Broward County chose a $17.2 million touch-screen
system over a pencil-and-paper system priced at no more than $5 million.
Earlier that year, in May, Palm Beach County agreed to pay $14 million
for touch-screens, compared with $3 million for the simpler system.
Why use electronic machines at all? Blame the Federal Government’s Help
America Vote Act, which authorized $3.9 billion in federal spending to
help states replace punch-card and lever voting machines.
With a war and a soaring deficit, why would they want to do that?
"I have always been concerned about the undervote on electronic
machines," said Rebecca Mercuri, a computer expert at Harvard University
who has written extensively about voting issues. "We don't know what
happens with the votes because there is no real audit of the machines."
Ah. There’s the rub.
Not surprisingly, Supervisor of Elections Deborah Clark wants to keep it
that way…
Although she hadn’t shown much concern over spending $14 million on the
machines, she said that the $2 million expense of retrofitting Pinellas
County's new touch screen voting machines to generate a receipt for
voters which would verify how their ballots were cast was unnecessary.
The county's touch screen system, built by Sequoia Voting Systems, was
safe from tampering, she stated.
"A Mechanic for Our Time"
Her assertions should be tempered by the knowledge that while Clark
worked as a top official in the Pinellas Supervisor of Elections Office,
her husband's employer was awarded more than $400,000 in business with
the office.
Her husband, Richard Clark, isn't involved in sales,” reported a
sympathetic article in the St. Petersburg Times. “He installs and fixes
elections machines and says he has steered clear of business in Florida.”
But it is exactly these people, the ones who install and fix election
machines, the so-called mechanics, who have the opportunity and expertise
to rig the vote. When an election gets fixed, its almost always because
mechanics got “to” the machines.
Yet the development, coming after Clark's controversial handling of the
presidential election in Pinellas, raised some eyebrows this week. Some
county commissioners say they weren't told about her husband's connection
to the company.
It wasn’t like bribing election officials was something that never
happened in Tampa…
Officers of Shoup Voting Machine Co., a Sequoia predecessor, were
indicted for allegedly bribing politicians in Tampa, Florida back in
1971, according to the San Francisco Business Times.
It’s a job with a little bit of history… Even Clark's deputy
administrator, Karen Butler, is a sister of Sandra Mortham, Florida's
former secretary of state and a lobbyist for ES&S before the state
Legislature.
Butler told reporters that family ties won't matter.
Clark's husband, Richard Clark, 59, is a nationally known expert in
installing new voting systems.
An Insider at the Feast
He worked as a project manager for ES&S for about five years, having
joined the firm when it acquired the company that previously employed
him, Business Records Corp.
But Clark said he quit ES&S just before his wife was named elections
supervisor because he was worried that his employment with the firm could
appear as a conflict. But so far, Clark's new company, Richard A. Clark
Enterprises, works for just one company: ES&S.
The selection process in Pinellas County became mired in ethical
conflicts after county commissioners learned in July 2001 that ES&S had
“very” close ties to Deborah Clark.
Clark had been working in Birmingham, Ala. as an independent contractor,
after resigning from the company "I have nothing whatsoever to do with
that decision in Pinellas County. We don't talk about anything like
that," Clark told the St Pete Times. "We've been married 17 years. I love
her too much to put her in any position like that.”
The paper also quoted a sales executive from Sequoia Pacific, John
Krizka, who said he did not think ES&S got any unfair advantage in
Pinellas County.
Coming from a salesman for a competitor, this seems convincing, except
that the two companies have a documented and tangled history of collusion
between the two supposedly competing firms.
Then too, consider that Sequoia had paid $441,000 in a single year to
Krizka, just for selling voting machines to four Florida counties.
Although this might be viewed as a bit excessive, it wasn’t enough for
Krizka, who sued, claiming Sequoia had stiffed him on another $1.8
million.
And here’s where our story begins to come full circle…
Birmingham, City of 'Mechanics'
Apparently no one noticed that when Richard Clark went to Birmingham,
another Birmingham election exec, Phil Foster, was being indicted on
felony bribery charges.
Phil Foster, a regional sales vice president, was allegedly involved in a
conspiracy and money-laundering scheme that involved the sale of machine
parts at inflated prices and kickbacks of nearly $600,000.
Pinellas commissioners were surprised when the St. Pete Times reported
that Foster, a key employee for front-runner Sequoia Voting Systems, had
been indicted for the elections kickback scheme in Louisiana.
“Sequoia was not involved, nor was the company charged,” said the St Pete
Times.
This isn’t strictly true. In fact, it isn’t true at all…
Testimony in Federal Court in Baton Rouge revealed that, in fact, Sequoia
had engineered the complex scheme, an action which provides yet another
election irony.
Pinellas Commission Chairman Calvin Harris told the Times he assumed the
state had checked out the competing companies while their machines were
being certified.
Not so, said Clay Roberts, director of the state's Division of Elections,
who maintained that background checks were a job for counties.
So while the state of Florida was death on voting by convicted felons,
there were no safeguards in place to prevent the votes from being counted
by felons.
Invisible Hand Wearing a Velvet Glove
The last time a big gambling initiative was on the ballot in a Southern
state, the election, in Louisiana, produced visible evidence of
state-wide vote fraud.
Gambling was the burning issue on the ballot. Allegations of voting
irregularity became commonplace.
We saw the invisible hand of one of the second largest elections services
company, Sequoia Pacific, in action. Commissioner of Elections and former
pro football player Jerry Fowler got himself in big gambling trouble at
Harrah's and paid off like a jimmied slot machine for over a decade.
When big money’s at stake, we learned, people looking to fix elections
take off the velvet gloves.
So we paid close attention to Amendment 4, the gambling initiative on the
Florida ballot. And what we found revealed that Pinellas County isn’t an
isolated case..
Sequoia Voting Systems also sold neighboring Hillsborough its $12-million
package of touch screen voting machines, had “a computer indexing system
malfunction” in the Aug. 31 primary.
That’s a serious computer glitch, apparently.
Sequoia had never experienced this particular glitch., which was a doozy.
A total of 118,699 people turned out to vote countywide. But somehow
125,891 voted in the race for state attorney.
That's 7,192 more votes than voters.
"All Roads Lead to Vegas"
For why this happens there’s no better example than… where else? Las
Vegas…
Back in 1993-94, many observers wondered why new Clark County elections
chief Kathryn Ferguson would commit to what turned out to be tens of
millions of dollars in expenditures to adopt Sequoia Pacific’s electronic
voting machines.
So determined was Ms. Ferguson to buy the Sequoia machines for Las Vegas
that a former member of her elections department team stated Ferguson
resorted to the simple exigency of having Sequoia Pacific’s
representative send a list of bid specifications designed so that
Sequoia's machines were the only ones that could meet them.
This hardly seems sporting. And its definitely illegal. Asked at the
time, Ferguson said she had no concern that her acceptance of a job at
Sequoia Pacific might appear to be a payoff for favors rendered.
Today Kathryn Ferguson is E S & S’s chief spokesman. She’s good to go.
So the real question isn’t “Did vote fraud affect the Presidential race?”
The real question is, “How could it not?”
Although many profess amazed and seem confused about why Democrats have
been such weenies about vote fraud, this is a bipartisan scandal. And
both parties know it.
When several dozen voters in six states - particularly Democrats in
Florida - said the wrong candidates appeared on their touch-screen
machine's checkout screen, the “Election Protection Coalition” called the
problem "troubling but anecdotal."
Why are they excusing felony fraud?
State Election Commissioner Jerry Fowler, sentenced to five years in
prison for taking hundreds of thousands of dollars in kickbacks from
voting machine contractors, could tell you…
Revelations of his bribe-taking might never have emerged except for
complaints from, of all things, a Republican candidate, Woody Jenkins,
narrowly beaten by Democratic Senate candidate Mary Landrieu, in an
especially bad-tempered campaign.
A year-long investigation into the voting process ensued, which uncovered
certain financial irregularities.
Today Woody Jenkins is out of politics.
The system rolls on…
=============================
OB Tolkien: The West ain't what it used to be...
What odds for Jeb Bush as the next President?
After all, he's shown he's willing to get his hands very dirty.
M.
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| OT - Truth is stranger than fiction - How to Rig an Election [2] [message #47359 ] |
Do, 26 Mai 2005 13:46 |
|
http://www.madcowprod.com/12092004.html
December 8,2004 -Venice, FL.
by Daniel Hopsicker
A retired CIA agent, whose illegal and unfettered access to election
rolls in Martin County Florida was a major source of legal contention
after the 2000 Election, traveled to the Ukraine four years earlier to
teach “grass-roots politics” to people there, The MadCowMorningNews has
learned.
The news came even as citizens in the Ukraine celebrate their new-found
freedom, while in the U.S. suspicion continued to fester that vote fraud
may have cost Americans their own right to free and honest elections.
In a bitterly ironic twist, Charles Kane, former Director of Security at
the Central Intelligence Agency, and member of the Florida Republican
Executive Committee, spent four days in Kiev, the capital of the former
Soviet republic, hosting training sessions for Ukrainian political
parties in 1996.
Institute officials chose Kane to go to the Ukraine, according to the
February 20, 1996, Stuart/Port St. Lucie News, apparently straight-faced,
“because of his experience in grass-roots campaigns.”
Four years later, Kane’s credentials as a proponent of democracy were
receiving much closer scrutiny...
“Kane's efforts were part of a sinister underground conspiracy to help
Bush,” Edward Stafman, attorney for the Martin County challengers told
the Associated Press on December 7, 2000.
Your Tax Dollars at Work
Like the virtually-unpublicized fact that 9.11 ringleader Mohamed Atta’s
sojourn in Hamburg was paid for by U.S. taxpayers (through the joint
US-German Congress-Bundestag Program), Charles Kane’s Ukrainian trip was
sponsored by the U.S. Government, this time through the International
Republican Institute, which reports have accused of being responsible
during the current election for “many millions of U.S. taxpayer dollars
funneled” in support of the U.S.’s preferred candidate.
The career of the much-traveled Kane, it must be stated, resembles
nothing so much as a conspiracy theorist’s wet dream... He was also
involved, years earlier, in the investigation into the JFK assassination,
dispatching a memo to the FBI regarding the whereabouts on the day of the
assassination of notorious pipe-smoking Watergate burglar E. Howard Hunt.
The Seeds of Destruction
Kane’s strange—and in the case of the 2000 U.S. election
crucial—involvement in two separate elections half a world apart came to
light during an investigation into election “anomalies” which might
explain why the company which predicted the 2000 outcome more accurately
than any national pollster, Zogby International, could have been so wrong
in 2004 in predicting a 100 electoral-vote triumph for Kerry.
Memories of the Martin County, Florida debacle, over Republican officials
allowed illegal access to election rolls in 2000, came to mind after
reading Wayne Madsen’s controversial recent reporting of a mysterious $29
million slush fund allegedly behind a conspiracy to steal the 2004
Presidential election by retired CIA and FBI agents.
Charles Kane had been both.
More importantly, he had been shown to have had been given unfettered
access to election data, which is at the heart of Madsen’s contention
that the election was stolen.
So while most eyes were rightly focused on the increasingly suspect vote
count in Ohio, we turned our attention to a place described by an early
Spanish explorer as being “filled with bogs and poisonous fruits, barren,
and the very worst country that is warmed by the sun.”
Like a hurricane slicing through a trailer park, Florida cut a swath of
destruction through Democratic hopes in each of the past two Presidential
elections.
We wanted to know if that outcome had been, somehow, “seeded” or
“engineered.”
The Ghost of Scandals Past
Charlie Kane’s presence in both the Ukraine and the 2000 election debacle
prompted us to take a quick backward glance at the controversy which
became familiar during the weeks following the infamous Florida Vote
Snafu of 2000.
Two heavily Republican counties in Florida had allowed party officials
access which they said was to fix hundreds of flawed absentee ballot
applications that had been submitted by voters but rejected by the
elections office.
The Martin County supervisor of elections, a Republican, let Republican
Party workers take away the ballot requests on a daily basis, add missing
voter identification numbers and resubmit them, a deputy elections
supervisor said.
Just days before the Nov. 7 election, Charles Kane and his buddy Thomas
Hauck were laboring in front of a computer at the local Republican
headquarters in Stuart, supposedly as part of their party's sophisticated
but botched statewide effort to get out the absentee vote.
A printing company had failed to put the required voter identification
numbers on thousands of absentee ballot request forms that were mailed to
voters. So Hauck and Kane got busy in Martin County, aided by a
Republican supervisor of elections who let them remove forms from her
office.
Kane, who chaired the 2000 Bush-Cheney campaign in Martin County,
supposedly read the numbers from the party's database. Hauck, the local
GOP treasurer and a 20-year veteran of local campaigns, supposedly filled
in the blanks on the request forms.
But the printing company’s forms were used state-wide. Had this perhaps
"convenient" fact been used as an excuse to allow illegal access in other
places in Florida as well?
The question was never answered.
Once Again, in Tallahassee
Moreover, while Gov. George W. Bush edged Vice President Al Gore by 56
percent to 44 percent in Martin County, the absentee votes—control of
which violated the rules of chain of custody—broke nearly 2 to 1 for
Bush. This strange disparity had an echo in the 2004 election in
Florida, which we will soon take up.
Other tantalizing clues have emerged, like the recent statements made by
Jeff Fisher, Democratic candidate for the U.S. House of Representatives
from Florida's 16th District, which, curiously, encompasses both Martin
as well as Palm Beach County, where the vote count has been disputed in
an analysis by UC Berkeley researchers.
Fisher has evidence, he says, not only that the Florida election was
hacked, but of who hacked it and how.
Perhaps the proof of vote tampering, if proof is ever found, will be
found by piercing through the implausible explanation offered for
Charlie Kane’s illegal access to election records, and then collating it
with whatever the truth turns out to be about the 'goings-on' in
Tallahassee, home of the heart of Florida’s election machine, the central
tabulating computer, on the day before the 2004 election.
Authorities there evacuated the headquarters of state election officials
over a suspicious ticking package which turned out to be just “papers
flapping in an air vent.”
An Echo (Not a Choice) in Ohio
Similarly, citing concerns about potential terrorism, Warren County Ohio
officials locked down the county administration building on election
night and blocked anyone from observing the vote count as the nation
awaited Ohio's returns.
This is odd. If you wanted to rig an election, the easiest path would
seem to involve the fewest people.
Creating some "crisis" which takes people away from the crime scene would
be key.
Only two states would need to be controlled illegally: Ohio and Florida.
Curiously, in both there occurred still-unexplained events which may have
impacted the result of the election.
In Ohio there was the famous "Warren County Lockdown" because of "terror"
threats, and in Florida, a "bomb threat" at the State Elections Office in
Tallahassee
The State Elections Office in Tallahassee holds, of course, that state’s
main tabulating computers.
Numerous election experts have testified to the ease with which
unsupervised access to the main tabulating computers before the actual
election could be used to “hack the vote.” In an environment with no
meaningful oversight and no paper trail, vote tampering, they state, can
occur virtually undetected.
One expert on the technical aspects of electronic voting stated a typical
concern...“There are virtually no limits to the way votes can be
distributed... Programmers can write code that is self-erasing and
redistributes votes to conform to whatever outside interests are
operative, and without any kind of traceability."
And a Johns Hopkins University study researchers noted: "Software flaws
in a leading US electronic voting system could be used to subvert the
outcome of an election."
A mysterious rattle
With this in mind compare two typical quotes from mainstream stories:
“The Republican-dominated (Warren Ohio) County threw out all the media
and independent vote watchers when votes were being counted at the end of
Election Day, claiming ‘homeland security’ issues.”
“State elections workers got off to a slow start this morning after
Tallahassee police evacuated their building. Investigators called in the
bomb squad after finding a suspicious package.”
The events seem strangely similar. Moreover, the explanation given in
Florida lacks a certain je ne sais quoi, we discovered, after reading all
the news clips…
“As if Florida's election system weren't already stretched enough,
employees in Florida's main elections office in Tallahassee arrived at
work Monday morning to find their building surrounded by police and a
bomb squad truck parked out front. A security guard had reported a
suspicious package that appeared to vibrate in a storage room for the
state's archives, which share the… building.
“The package was discovered in an area that stores quilts and other
artwork that is part of the department's historic archive.”
The package turned out to be a bundle of documents, supposedly being
blown by an air vent.
The mysterious rattling noise was caused by an air vent that was blocked
by the box of papers?
Had the box changed position on the morning before the election? Had the
air vent?
“Calling out the troops” to protect Florida’s collection of quilts seems
a dubious excuse… made far more suspicious by the unfortunate box’s
proximity to the state’s central tabulating computer on the eve of the
election.
They must be some really important quilts.
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| Re: OT "Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry" or How to Rig a Second Election [message #47366 ] |
Do, 26 Mai 2005 15:21 |
|
Noboday cares
Take this OT crap and post it somewhere else
|
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| Re: OT "Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry" or How to Rig a Second Election [message #47375 ] |
Do, 26 Mai 2005 18:04 |
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Dan Leach wrote:
>
> Noboday cares
> Take this OT crap and post it somewhere else
Ahh, the human leech again.
What have you wittered on about this month, Danny Boi?
<scans>
Not a lot then.
Plus ça change.
M.
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| Re: OT "Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry" or How to Rig a Second Election [message #47378 ] |
Do, 26 Mai 2005 19:17 |
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> Dan Leach wrote:
>>
>> Noboday cares
>> Take this OT crap and post it somewhere else
>
> Ahh, the human leech again.
>
> What have you wittered on about this month, Danny Boi?
>
> <scans>
>
> Not a lot then.
>
> Plus ça change.
>
Oh fer christs sake is that the best you can do?
I suggest you open an account here http://www.trollkingdom.com
Its jam packed full of retards such as yourself
|
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| Re: OT "Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry" or How to Rig a Second Election [message #49667 ] |
Fr, 27 Mai 2005 12:27 |
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Dan Leach wrote:
>
> > Dan Leach wrote:
> >>
> >> Noboday cares
> >> Take this OT crap and post it somewhere else
> >
> > Ahh, the human leech again.
> >
> > What have you wittered on about this month, Danny Boi?
> >
> > <scans>
> >
> > Not a lot then.
> >
> > Plus ça change.
> >
> Oh fer christs sake is that the best you can do?
> I suggest you open an account here http://www.trollkingdom.com
> Its jam packed full of retards such as yourself
For someone apparently posting from a TLI you don't exhibit the benefits
implied by such an education. You must be studying engineering or
something. Back to your feeding trough then.
M.
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| Re: OT "Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry" or How to Rig a Second Election [message #49668 ] |
Fr, 27 Mai 2005 12:30 |
|
Dan Leach wrote:
>
> > Dan Leach wrote:
> >>
> >> Noboday cares
> >> Take this OT crap and post it somewhere else
> >
> > Ahh, the human leech again.
> >
> > What have you wittered on about this month, Danny Boi?
> >
> > <scans>
> >
> > Not a lot then.
> >
> > Plus ça change.
> >
> Oh fer christs sake is that the best you can do?
> I suggest you open an account here http://www.trollkingdom.com
> Its jam packed full of retards such as yourself
<checks headers again>
Um. That was interesting.
Registrant:
UUNET Pipex
Reading International Business Park
Basingstoke Road
Reading, Berkshire rg2 6da
UK
Domain Name: PIPEX.COM
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
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Database last updated on 27-May-2005 06:32:21 EDT.
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| Re: OT "Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry" or How to Rig a Second Election [message #49669 ] |
Fr, 27 Mai 2005 12:33 |
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Dan Leach wrote:
>
> > Dan Leach wrote:
> >>
> >> Noboday cares
> >> Take this OT crap and post it somewhere else
> >
> > Ahh, the human leech again.
> >
> > What have you wittered on about this month, Danny Boi?
> >
> > <scans>
> >
> > Not a lot then.
> >
> > Plus ça change.
> >
> Oh fer christs sake is that the best you can do?
> I suggest you open an account here http://www.trollkingdom.com
> Its jam packed full of retards such as yourself
Dan Leach
Profile for danleach
Email
danleach [at] dsl.pipex.com
Member #
21020
Name
Dan Leach
Title
Fleet Captain
Total Posts
1910
Birthday
12/20
Homepage
Occupation
computer tech
Hobbies
sim racing, sci-fi, astronomy
Location
Lancaster UK
Bio
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should
like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you
deserve."
J. R. R. Tolkien
ICQ Number
Registered on
03/05/27 12:22 PM
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| Re: OT "Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry" or How to Rig a Second Election [message #49671 ] |
Fr, 27 Mai 2005 12:37 |
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Dan Leach wrote:
>
> > Dan Leach wrote:
> >>
> >> Noboday cares
> >> Take this OT crap and post it somewhere else
> >
> > Ahh, the human leech again.
> >
> > What have you wittered on about this month, Danny Boi?
> >
> > <scans>
> >
> > Not a lot then.
> >
> > Plus ça change.
> >
> Oh fer christs sake is that the best you can do?
> I suggest you open an account here http://www.trollkingdom.com
> Its jam packed full of retards such as yourself
"Dan_Leach
22-06-2004, 02:16 AM
Thats why MS is so fast. He controls the car like a gpl alien,
accellerate
while braking and turning to rotate the car."
I can see you're a fascinating individual with a depth of knowledge about
Tolkien, Star Trek and <gurgle> Sim Car Racing that fair takes the breath
away.
M.
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| Re: OT "Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry" or How to Rig a Second Election [message #49675 ] |
Fr, 27 Mai 2005 12:42 |
|
Dan Leach wrote:
>
> > Dan Leach wrote:
> >>
> >> Noboday cares
> >> Take this OT crap and post it somewhere else
> >
> > Ahh, the human leech again.
> >
> > What have you wittered on about this month, Danny Boi?
> >
> > <scans>
> >
> > Not a lot then.
> >
> > Plus ça change.
> >
> Oh fer christs sake is that the best you can do?
> I suggest you open an account here http://www.trollkingdom.com
> Its jam packed full of retards such as yourself
Of course, this Danny wouldn't be you, would it?
===============================
Atomic_Danny Bio
This Page has been viewed 168 times since March 2004!
Username - Atomic_Danny
ame: Daniel Leach
Age: 20 (xx/xx/xxxx)
Lives: [censored]
Jobs: BC Files Filer, Work at a Local Store, and a Business with
Computing degree at Canterbury Christ Church University College.
Website: http://www.alienworlds.co.uk
Interests: Star Trek, Trek games, Football (or soccer to the US )
Hates: Assignments, Most Customers at the local supermarket where i work!
Favorite Star Trek ships: Centaur, Prometheus, Excelsior
Favorite Star Trek episode: Sacrifice of Angels (DS9) / 'Q Less' (DS9)
Favorite TV shows besides trek: Stargate SG1, Stargate Atlantis, Red
Dwarf, Battlestar Galactica (ALL), Farscape, Babylon 5, Andromeda.
============================
Nawwwwww, course not.
<smirk>
M.
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| Re: OT "Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry" or How to Rig a Second Election [message #49718 ] |
Sa, 28 Mai 2005 14:55 |
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HAHAHHA you idiot :)
I cant believe you think your in any way clever posting that easy to come by
material
You really are a sad pointless little man. Do you think its clever or
difficult to come up with that(btw you only got 1/2 of it right) Im open, i
never hide muy name i never ry to cover my tracks and i never use proxy or
proxy mail.
Do you get some wierd perverse pleasure out of being a rather untalented
script kiddie or something?
I suggest you grow up, your not as 'cool' as you think you are.
:rolleyes:
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| Re: OT - Truth is stranger than fiction - How to Rig an Election[2] [message #49729 ] |
Sa, 28 Mai 2005 23:44 |
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Michael O'Neill wrote:
> http://www.madcowprod.com/12092004.html
>
> December 8,2004 -Venice, FL.
> by Daniel Hopsicker
>
<snip>
OK, so Bush and his cronies stole two elections.
Therefore the American people are not responsible
for anything the Bush adminstration has done.
After all, we voted for Gore and Kerry. Right?
-- FotW
[NOT crossposted to RABT]
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| Re: OT - Truth is stranger than fiction - How to Rig an Election [2] [message #49738 ] |
So, 29 Mai 2005 11:22 |
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Flame of the West (or somebody else of the same name) wrote thusly in
message <IOOdnWKCR5uqewXfRVn-sg [at] comcast.com>:
> OK, so Bush and his cronies stole two elections.
> Therefore the American people are not responsible
> for anything the Bush adminstration has done.
> After all, we voted for Gore and Kerry. Right?
Here in the UK we didn't vote for any of these characters. Can we keep
particular nations' internal politics out of this international group
please?
--
A couple of questions. How do I stop the wires short-circuiting, and what's
this nylon washer for?
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
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| Re: OT - Truth is stranger than fiction - How to Rig an Election[2] [message #49741 ] |
So, 29 Mai 2005 13:14 |
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Prai Jei wrote:
>>OK, so Bush and his cronies stole two elections.
>>Therefore the American people are not responsible
>>for anything the Bush adminstration has done.
>>After all, we voted for Gore and Kerry. Right?
>
> Here in the UK we didn't vote for any of these characters. Can we keep
> particular nations' internal politics out of this international group
> please?
Sure, but why reply to me? Go have a talk
with your Euro-neighbor O'Neill.
-- FotW
"The deeds of Men will outlast us, Gimli."
-- Legolas, immortal Elf
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| Re: OT "Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry" or How to Rig a Second Election [message #49775 ] |
Mo, 30 Mai 2005 11:41 |
|
Dan Leach wrote:
>
> HAHAHHA you idiot :)
> I cant believe you think your in any way clever posting that easy to come by
> material
> You really are a sad pointless little man. Do you think its clever or
> difficult to come up with that(btw you only got 1/2 of it right) Im open, i
> never hide muy name i never ry to cover my tracks and i never use proxy or
> proxy mail.
> Do you get some wierd perverse pleasure out of being a rather untalented
> script kiddie or something?
> I suggest you grow up, your not as 'cool' as you think you are.
> :rolleyes:
<chuckle>
Whereas replying to my <splutter> "1/2 right" post is...?
<guffaw>
M.
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| Re: OT "Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry" or How to Rig a Second Election [message #50805 ] |
Di, 31 Mai 2005 02:09 |
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"Michael O'Neill" <onq [at] bwahahaha.indigo.ie> wrote in message
news:429AE2F8.EC44CFCB [at] bwahahaha.indigo.ie...
> Dan Leach wrote:
> >
> > HAHAHHA you idiot :)
> > I cant believe you think your in any way clever posting that easy to
come by
> > material
> > You really are a sad pointless little man. Do you think its clever or
> > difficult to come up with that(btw you only got 1/2 of it right) Im
open, i
> > never hide muy name i never ry to cover my tracks and i never use proxy
or
> > proxy mail.
> > Do you get some wierd perverse pleasure out of being a rather
untalented
> > script kiddie or something?
> > I suggest you grow up, your not as 'cool' as you think you are.
> > :rolleyes:
>
> <chuckle>
>
> Whereas replying to my <splutter> "1/2 right" post is...?
>
> <guffaw>
>
> M.
Put your foil beanie away. Kerry lost. Live with it. Speaking of which, your
boy Chirac just suffered a humiliating defeat as well. So much for that
unified Europe you have been bragging about, huh? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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| Re: OT "Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry" or How to Rig a Second Election [message #52153 ] |
Di, 31 Mai 2005 11:22 |
|
Baronjosefr wrote:
>
> "Michael O'Neill" <onq [at] bwahahaha.indigo.ie> wrote in message
> news:429AE2F8.EC44CFCB [at] bwahahaha.indigo.ie...
> > Dan Leach wrote:
> > >
> > > HAHAHHA you idiot :)
> > > I cant believe you think your in any way clever posting that easy to
> come by
> > > material
> > > You really are a sad pointless little man. Do you think its clever or
> > > difficult to come up with that(btw you only got 1/2 of it right) Im
> open, i
> > > never hide muy name i never ry to cover my tracks and i never use proxy
> or
> > > proxy mail.
> > > Do you get some wierd perverse pleasure out of being a rather
> untalented
> > > script kiddie or something?
> > > I suggest you grow up, your not as 'cool' as you think you are.
> > > :rolleyes:
> >
> > <chuckle>
> >
> > Whereas replying to my <splutter> "1/2 right" post is...?
> >
> > <guffaw>
> >
> > M.
>
> Put your foil beanie away. Kerry lost. Live with it. Speaking of which, your
> boy Chirac just suffered a humiliating defeat as well. So much for that
> unified Europe you have been bragging about, huh? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I don't recall bragging about it.
You mean the one you are so obviously WORRIED about?
*mheh*
M.
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| Re: OT "Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry" or How to Rig a Second Election [message #52237 ] |
Do, 02 Juni 2005 00:47 |
|
"Michael O'Neill" <onq [at] bwahahaha.indigo.ie> wrote in message
news:429C2CD3.611DC989 [at] bwahahaha.indigo.ie...
> Baronjosefr wrote:
> >
> > "Michael O'Neill" <onq [at] bwahahaha.indigo.ie> wrote in message
> > news:429AE2F8.EC44CFCB [at] bwahahaha.indigo.ie...
> > > Dan Leach wrote:
> > > >
> > > > HAHAHHA you idiot :)
> > > > I cant believe you think your in any way clever posting that easy to
> > come by
> > > > material
> > > > You really are a sad pointless little man. Do you think its clever
or
> > > > difficult to come up with that(btw you only got 1/2 of it right) Im
> > open, i
> > > > never hide muy name i never ry to cover my tracks and i never use
proxy
> > or
> > > > proxy mail.
> > > > Do you get some wierd perverse pleasure out of being a rather
> > untalented
> > > > script kiddie or something?
> > > > I suggest you grow up, your not as 'cool' as you think you are.
> > > > :rolleyes:
> > >
> > > <chuckle>
> > >
> > > Whereas replying to my <splutter> "1/2 right" post is...?
> > >
> > > <guffaw>
> > >
> > > M.
> >
> > Put your foil beanie away. Kerry lost. Live with it. Speaking of which,
your
> > boy Chirac just suffered a humiliating defeat as well. So much for that
> > unified Europe you have been bragging about, huh? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>
>
> I don't recall bragging about it.
>
> You mean the one you are so obviously WORRIED about?
>
> *mheh*
>
> M.
Why worry when they can't even agree on what they should be?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....and Chirac even screwed up his choice for Prime Minister.
Makes my heart warm
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| Re: OT "Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry" or How to Rig a Second Election [message #53455 ] |
Fr, 03 Juni 2005 01:40 |
|
Baronjosefr wrote:
>
> "Michael O'Neill" <onq [at] bwahahaha.indigo.ie> wrote in message
> news:429C2CD3.611DC989 [at] bwahahaha.indigo.ie...
> > Baronjosefr wrote:
> > >
> > > "Michael O'Neill" <onq [at] bwahahaha.indigo.ie> wrote in message
> > > news:429AE2F8.EC44CFCB [at] bwahahaha.indigo.ie...
> > > > Dan Leach wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > HAHAHHA you idiot :)
> > > > > I cant believe you think your in any way clever posting that easy to
> > > come by
> > > > > material
> > > > > You really are a sad pointless little man. Do you think its clever
> or
> > > > > difficult to come up with that(btw you only got 1/2 of it right) Im
> > > open, i
> > > > > never hide muy name i never ry to cover my tracks and i never use
> proxy
> > > or
> > > > > proxy mail.
> > > > > Do you get some wierd perverse pleasure out of being a rather
> > > untalented
> > > > > script kiddie or something?
> > > > > I suggest you grow up, your not as 'cool' as you think you are.
> > > > > :rolleyes:
> > > >
> > > > <chuckle>
> > > >
> > > > Whereas replying to my <splutter> "1/2 right" post is...?
> > > >
> > > > <guffaw>
> > > >
> > > > M.
> > >
> > > Put your foil beanie away. Kerry lost. Live with it. Speaking of which,
> your
> > > boy Chirac just suffered a humiliating defeat as well. So much for that
> > > unified Europe you have been bragging about, huh? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> >
> >
> > I don't recall bragging about it.
> >
> > You mean the one you are so obviously WORRIED about?
> >
> > *mheh*
> >
> > M.
>
> Why worry when they can't even agree on what they should be?
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....and Chirac even screwed up his choice for Prime Minister.
> Makes my heart warm
Having finally tumbled to the fact that the CIA's drugs people had
infiltrated the easily led far right and far left [where else, the
moderates - don't make me laugh] Chirac gave America the finger in the
only way left to him - appointing the foreign minister America loved to
hate.
But there's an heir apparent waiting in the wings, and Edinburgh's just
around the corner, with the prelim in Sheffield IIRC. So we'll see.
Anyway, we've got on without a constitution before now, and yours is
completely subverted in everything from democratic elections to civil
rights to education to healthcare to - well, you know...
<chuckle>
Where, oh *where*, are all those bleaters who said the Euro would
collapse against the Dollar shortly after its launch?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!11!1!11
M.
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| OT: European Integration [was:"Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry"or How to Rig a Se [message #53458 ] |
Fr, 03 Juni 2005 03:44 |
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Michael O'Neill wrote:
>>Put your foil beanie away. Kerry lost. Live with it. Speaking of which, your
>>boy Chirac just suffered a humiliating defeat as well. So much for that
>>unified Europe you have been bragging about, huh? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>
> I don't recall bragging about it.
>
> You mean the one you are so obviously WORRIED about?
>
> *mheh*
I doubt he's worried so much as gleeful because he dislikes Chirac.
Most Americans (apart from neoconservative unilateralists) wish
Europe well and welcome the development of a stable and prosperous
community there. The level of integration needed for that is
completely up to Europeans. I know *I* wouldn't want that level
of integration into an international superstate, but it's pretty
obvious that we Americans think differently from you on a lot of
things. I admit the democrat in me doesn't relish watching
integration being imposed on so many countries by political elites
without popular votes. But the most important thing to me is that
Europe keep its act together and not plunge into any more wars,
since we inevitably get sucked into them.
-- FotW
"I love England (not Great Britain and certainly
not the British Commonwealth (grr!))."
-- JRR Tolkien
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| Re: OT "Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry" or How to Rig a SecondElection [message #53459 ] |
Fr, 03 Juni 2005 03:50 |
|
Michael O'Neill wrote:
> Anyway, we've got on without a constitution before now, and yours is
> completely subverted in everything from democratic elections to civil
> rights to education to healthcare to - well, you know...
Actually our Constitution doesn't mention any of those things.
Most of the subversions of our Constitution come from reading
things into it that aren't there, by those on the Left.
-- FotW
"I love England (not Great Britain and certainly
not the British Commonwealth (grr!))."
-- JRR Tolkien
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| Re: European Integration [was:"Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry" or How to Rig a S [message #53460 ] |
Fr, 03 Juni 2005 04:01 |
|
"Flame of the West" <jsolinas [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
news:L6ednTd3-eZ-KALfRVn-uw [at] comcast.com...
> Michael O'Neill wrote:
>
> >>Put your foil beanie away. Kerry lost. Live with it. Speaking of which,
your
> >>boy Chirac just suffered a humiliating defeat as well. So much for that
> >>unified Europe you have been bragging about, huh? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> >
> > I don't recall bragging about it.
> >
> > You mean the one you are so obviously WORRIED about?
> >
> > *mheh*
>
> I doubt he's worried so much as gleeful because he dislikes Chirac.
> Most Americans (apart from neoconservative unilateralists) wish
> Europe well and welcome the development of a stable and prosperous
> community there. The level of integration needed for that is
> completely up to Europeans. I know *I* wouldn't want that level
> of integration into an international superstate, but it's pretty
> obvious that we Americans think differently from you on a lot of
> things. I admit the democrat in me doesn't relish watching
> integration being imposed on so many countries by political elites
> without popular votes. But the most important thing to me is that
> Europe keep its act together and not plunge into any more wars,
> since we inevitably get sucked into them.
>
>
> -- FotW
>
> "I love England (not Great Britain and certainly
> not the British Commonwealth (grr!))."
>
> -- JRR Tolkien
Actually, if you are a fan of democracy, the votes of the French and the
Dutch should be welcomed. As you said, almost all of the integration was
done without popular support, so it is good to see democracy back in action
for the EU.
And yes, I am gleeful that Chirac wagered so much of his clout on the vote,
as he is a spineless weasel who allowed his government to be owned by Sodamn
Insane. Then he screwed up his selection of a new Prime Minister. What a
maroon.
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| Re: OT: European Integration [was:"Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry" or How to Rig [message #53473 ] |
Fr, 03 Juni 2005 09:33 |
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Flame of the West wrote:
> (snip)But the most important thing to me is that
> Europe keep its act together and not plunge into any more wars,
> since we inevitably get sucked into them.
It is not forgotten that the USA were part of the Allied Forces which
liberated part of Europe from the Nazi's.
Nevertheless the last war *we* were sucked into, was started by the
USA, against the wish of the UN.
Henriette
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| Re: OT: European Integration [was:"Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry" or How to Rig [message #53484 ] |
Fr, 03 Juni 2005 10:17 |
|
Flame of the West <jsolinas [at] comcast.net> wrote in
news:L6ednTd3-eZ-KALfRVn-uw [at] comcast.com:
>
> I doubt he's worried so much as gleeful because he dislikes
> Chirac. Most Americans (apart from neoconservative unilateralists)
> wish Europe well and welcome the development of a stable and
> prosperous community there. The level of integration needed for
> that is completely up to Europeans. I know *I* wouldn't want that
> level of integration into an international superstate, but it's
> pretty obvious that we Americans think differently from you on a
> lot of things. I admit the democrat in me doesn't relish watching
> integration being imposed on so many countries by political elites
> without popular votes. But the most important thing to me is that
> Europe keep its act together and not plunge into any more wars,
> since we inevitably get sucked into them.
Let me ask again, how can I register to vote for President Flame? It'd
be nice if all Americans thought like this.
--
Cheers, ymt.
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| Re: OT: European Integration [was:"Computer Glitches" Beat JohnKerry" or How to Rig [message #55180 ] |
Fr, 03 Juni 2005 22:58 |
|
Yuk Tang wrote:
> Flame of the West <jsolinas [at] comcast.net> wrote in
> news:L6ednTd3-eZ-KALfRVn-uw [at] comcast.com:
>
>>I doubt he's worried so much as gleeful because he dislikes
>>Chirac. Most Americans (apart from neoconservative unilateralists)
>>wish Europe well and welcome the development of a stable and
>>prosperous community there. The level of integration needed for
>>that is completely up to Europeans. I know *I* wouldn't want that
>>level of integration into an international superstate, but it's
>>pretty obvious that we Americans think differently from you on a
>>lot of things. I admit the democrat in me doesn't relish watching
>>integration being imposed on so many countries by political elites
>>without popular votes. But the most important thing to me is that
>>Europe keep its act together and not plunge into any more wars,
>>since we inevitably get sucked into them.
>
>
> Let me ask again, how can I register to vote for President Flame? It'd
> be nice if all Americans thought like this.
:-O
Don't even jest...
Morgil
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| Re: OT: European Integration [was:"Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry"or How to Rig a [message #55183 ] |
Sa, 04 Juni 2005 01:00 |
|
Henriette wrote:
> It is not forgotten that the USA were part of the Allied Forces which
> liberated part of Europe from the Nazi's.
>
> Nevertheless the last war *we* were sucked into, was started by the
> USA, against the wish of the UN.
But a war or two before that was in the Balkans, which for
some reason the Europeans couldn't handle. I'm hoping
that further development of the EU prevents even a small
conflict like that from happening again in Europe.
-- FotW
"I love England (not Great Britain and certainly
not the British Commonwealth (grr!))."
-- JRR Tolkien
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| Re: OT: European Integration [was:"Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry" or How to Rig [message #55188 ] |
Sa, 04 Juni 2005 02:57 |
|
Flame of the West <jsolinas [at] comcast.net> wrote in
news:JYydnfGaQN6afD3fRVn-ig [at] comcast.com:
> Henriette wrote:
>
>> It is not forgotten that the USA were part of the Allied Forces
>> which liberated part of Europe from the Nazi's.
>>
>> Nevertheless the last war *we* were sucked into, was started by
>> the USA, against the wish of the UN.
>
> But a war or two before that was in the Balkans, which for
> some reason the Europeans couldn't handle. I'm hoping
> that further development of the EU prevents even a small
> conflict like that from happening again in Europe.
The current strategy is to entice them with eventual membership of
the EU, but only if they behave and reform themselves in our liberal
democratic image. The former Yugoslav states seem to be responding
to this.
As I said a while ago, in the application of the carrot and the stick
the stick needn't necessarily be a sword, sheathed or otherwise. The
taste of the carrot and the threat to withdraw it can sometimes be
even more effective.
--
Cheers, ymt.
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| Re: OT: European Integration [was:"Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry"or How to Rig a [message #55236 ] |
So, 05 Juni 2005 16:45 |
|
Yuk Tang wrote:
> The current strategy is to entice them with eventual membership of
> the EU, but only if they behave and reform themselves in our liberal
> democratic image. The former Yugoslav states seem to be responding
> to this.
>
> As I said a while ago, in the application of the carrot and the stick
> the stick needn't necessarily be a sword, sheathed or otherwise. The
> taste of the carrot and the threat to withdraw it can sometimes be
> even more effective.
That only works *after* the military aggression has been stopped.
And if the underlying conflicts have not been resolved, it can
backfire: the EU is now siding with the Greek Cypriots, who
rejected the proposed peace plan, against the Turkish Cypriots,
who accepted it. IMHO they should not have offered membership
to any part of Cyprus until after they came to a settlement.
-- FotW
"If you must read newspapers and magazines at least
give yourself a mouthwash with The Lord of the Rings."
-- C.S. Lewis
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| Re: OT: European Integration [was:"Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry" or How to Rig [message #55254 ] |
Mo, 06 Juni 2005 10:41 |
|
Flame of the West <jsolinas [at] comcast.net> wrote in
news:r_idnQLUg-VGkj7fRVn-vw [at] comcast.com:
> Yuk Tang wrote:
>
>> The current strategy is to entice them with eventual membership
>> of the EU, but only if they behave and reform themselves in our
>> liberal democratic image. The former Yugoslav states seem to be
>> responding to this.
>>
>> As I said a while ago, in the application of the carrot and the
>> stick the stick needn't necessarily be a sword, sheathed or
>> otherwise. The taste of the carrot and the threat to withdraw it
>> can sometimes be even more effective.
>
> That only works *after* the military aggression has been stopped.
Or preempting it, as in Macedonia.
> And if the underlying conflicts have not been resolved, it can
> backfire: the EU is now siding with the Greek Cypriots, who
> rejected the proposed peace plan, against the Turkish Cypriots,
> who accepted it. IMHO they should not have offered membership
> to any part of Cyprus until after they came to a settlement.
That I agree with. The EU is no place for border disputes; only
after people have accepted the validity of existing borders can they
be effectively dissolved.
--
Cheers, ymt.
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| Re: OT: European Integration [was:"Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry" or How to Rig [message #55256 ] |
Mo, 06 Juni 2005 11:13 |
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Wes ðu Yuk Tang hal!
> > And if the underlying conflicts have not been resolved, it can
> > backfire: the EU is now siding with the Greek Cypriots, who
> > rejected the proposed peace plan, against the Turkish Cypriots,
> > who accepted it. IMHO they should not have offered membership
> > to any part of Cyprus until after they came to a settlement.
>
> That I agree with. The EU is no place for border disputes; only
> after people have accepted the validity of existing borders can they
> be effectively dissolved.
In all fairness, at the time when Cyprus' accession was agreed (in the
late 90s) everyone thought it was the Turks who were being
obstructionist. It seemed extremely unfair to keep the Greek Cypriots
out because of something they had absolutely no control over, and it was
thought that EU membership would pressurise the Turkish Cypriots into
accepting a settlement. No-one really expected a situation where it
would be the Greek Cypriots who voted no. By the time it became clear
that that was what would happen, the treaties of accession had already
been signed and there was nothing that could be done about it.
--
Arvind
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| Re: OT: European Integration [was:"Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry" or How to Rig [message #56774 ] |
Mo, 06 Juni 2005 21:08 |
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Flame of the West wrote:
> Yuk Tang wrote:
> >
> > As I said a while ago, in the application of the carrot and the stick
> > the stick needn't necessarily be a sword, sheathed or otherwise. The
> > taste of the carrot and the threat to withdraw it can sometimes be
> > even more effective.
>
> That only works *after* the military aggression has been stopped.
> And if the underlying conflicts have not been resolved, it can
> backfire (snip)
It'll be interesting to see how some conflicts will work out in the
light of the taste of the carrot and the threat to withdraw it, as some
conflicts are *centuries* old (Balkan).
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| Re: OT: European Integration [was:"Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry" or How to Rig [message #56788 ] |
Di, 07 Juni 2005 15:11 |
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"Henriette" <heldenib [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1117784039.658087.240910 [at] g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Flame of the West wrote:
>
> > (snip)But the most important thing to me is that
> > Europe keep its act together and not plunge into any more wars,
> > since we inevitably get sucked into them.
>
> It is not forgotten that the USA were part of the Allied Forces which
> liberated part of Europe from the Nazi's.
>
> Nevertheless the last war *we* were sucked into, was started by the
> USA, against the wish of the UN.
>
> Henriette
>
And against the wishes of Sodamn Insane, who owned France and Russia's U.N.
vote....don't forget that, please.
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| Re: OT: European Integration [was:"Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry"or How to Rig a [message #56807 ] |
Mi, 08 Juni 2005 00:04 |
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Baronjosefr wrote:
> "Henriette" <heldenib [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1117784039.658087.240910 [at] g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>Nevertheless the last war *we* were sucked into, was started by the
>>USA, against the wish of the UN.
>>
>>Henriette
>>
>
>
> And against the wishes of Sodamn Insane, who owned France and Russia's U.N.
> vote....don't forget that, please.
Against the wish of the UN, and vast majority of world's nations
and people, but according to the wishes of Saudi-Arabia and Iran,
who owned the US government and the Iraqi exiles who provided the
"information" about the hidden WMDs, remember that.
Morgil
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| Re: OT: European Integration [was:"Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry" or How to Rig [message #57969 ] |
Mi, 08 Juni 2005 14:07 |
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"Morgil" <morestelx [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d855lj$tqe$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi...
> Baronjosefr wrote:
> > "Henriette" <heldenib [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1117784039.658087.240910 [at] g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> >>Nevertheless the last war *we* were sucked into, was started by the
> >>USA, against the wish of the UN.
> >>
> >>Henriette
> >>
> >
> >
> > And against the wishes of Sodamn Insane, who owned France and Russia's
U.N.
> > vote....don't forget that, please.
>
> Against the wish of the UN, and vast majority of world's nations
> and people, but according to the wishes of Saudi-Arabia and Iran,
> who owned the US government and the Iraqi exiles who provided the
> "information" about the hidden WMDs, remember that.
>
> Morgil
Information that was also provided by the Intelligence services of Britain,
France, Italy, etc. etc. etc.
You'd forget your dick if it wasn't in your hand all the time
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| Re: OT: European Integration [was:"Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry"or How to Rig a [message #57972 ] |
Mi, 08 Juni 2005 15:08 |
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Baronjosefr wrote:
> "Morgil" <morestelx [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:d855lj$tqe$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi...
>>Against the wish of the UN, and vast majority of world's nations
>>and people, but according to the wishes of Saudi-Arabia and Iran,
>>who owned the US government and the Iraqi exiles who provided the
>>"information" about the hidden WMDs, remember that.
>>
>>Morgil
>
>
> Information that was also provided by the Intelligence services of Britain,
> France, Italy, etc. etc. etc.
Who got the information from those same sources - only with the
difference that *they* recogniced that the sources were highly
unreliable and tried to tell that to US intelligence who ignored
all such warnings. Google "curveball" for details.
> You'd forget your dick if it wasn't in your hand all the time
Don't be so hard on yourself. That's our job.
Morgil
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| Re: OT: European Integration [was:"Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry" or How to Rig [message #57973 ] |
Mi, 08 Juni 2005 15:20 |
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I see you've surfaced again little ratBaron. I can only assume this
means you've found the quote you went off to find.
That IS why you went away, isn't it? To find the quote that you
repeatedly claimed to have in your posession, of me making remarks in
support of Mohammads sexual practices?
We had just begun a conversation about the matter, and you disappeared
inexplicably. Odd.
Oh, and what happened to your little sidekick Ty? Like you, he
disappeared in the midst of a conversation as well: disappointing in a
way, I was just getting interested.
Baronjosefr wrote:
> Information that was also provided by the Intelligence services of Britain,
> France, Italy, etc. etc. etc.
As per usual, the facts contradict your bizzare fantasies.
French Intelligence Service analysis of WMD claims contradicts
publicised CIA "assessment":
http://www.isis-online.org/publications/iraq/usallieswmd.htm l
Architect of the war Paul Wolfowitz, proclaims publically in a
interview with Vanity Fair that the supposed WMD were not the real
reason he wanted war on Saddams Iraq - meanwhile, Jack Straw and Colin
Powell, whilst publically confident are privately doubtful about the
strength of the WMD claims - prior to the invasion:
http://www.countercurrents.org/us-mackay020603.htm
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| Re: OT: European Integration [was:"Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry" or How to Rig [message #57975 ] |
Mi, 08 Juni 2005 15:26 |
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Morgil wrote:
> Baronjosefr wrote:
>> Information that was also provided by the Intelligence services of
>> Britain,
>> France, Italy, etc. etc. etc.
>
>
> Who got the information from those same sources - only with the
> difference that *they* recogniced that the sources were highly
> unreliable...
Oops, exept Britain and Italy of course, who being part of the
"coalition of willing" allowed themselves to be duped as well...
Morgil
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| Re: OT: European Integration [was:"Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry" or How to Rig [message #57987 ] |
Mi, 08 Juni 2005 21:29 |
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Baronjosefr wrote:
> "Henriette" <heldenib [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1117784039.658087.240910 [at] g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > Nevertheless the last war *we* were sucked into, was started by the
> > USA, against the wish of the UN.
>
> And against the wishes of Sodamn Insane, who owned France and Russia's U.N.
> vote....don't forget that, please.
I'd be interested in the outcome of a referendum amongst the people of
Iraq, if they in retrospect, are for or against the invasion. What I
see in the daily news of the hostile reactions of the Iraqi people,
doesn't look one bit like the ecstatic happiness which came over Europe
when it was freed from the nazi's. So is this
car-bombing/foreign-soldiers-attacking group just a small group of
religious fanatics, or do they represent a majority of the Iraqi
people?
Henriette
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| Re: OT: European Integration [was:"Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry" or How to Rig [message #58019 ] |
Do, 09 Juni 2005 05:22 |
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"Sam's the little guy" <samdekat [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1118236816.649559.61010 [at] f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> I see you've surfaced again little ratBaron. I can only assume this
> means you've found the quote you went off to find.
> That IS why you went away, isn't it? To find the quote that you
> repeatedly claimed to have in your posession, of me making remarks in
> support of Mohammads sexual practices?
>
You have been bitch-slapped so many times that it is a wonder you can show
your face without being completely embarrassed. But then again, that is your
modis operandi: take positions then wait long enough for people to forget
about them, then deny them. Go back to giving Morgil that reach-around. He
is getting lonelu
> We had just begun a conversation about the matter, and you disappeared
> inexplicably. Odd.
yeah, it's that itme again, forget that you have been proiven wrong on so
many issues, and ask for the quotes all over again, for the umpteentht time.
Eventually, you realize, people get sick of shoing you to be the
terorist-loving cocksucker that you are. Isn't it about time for your dream
vaation? Gooing over to the Palestinian territories, digging up Arafat, and
having sex with his corpse?
>
> Oh, and what happened to your little sidekick Ty? Like you, he
> disappeared in the midst of a conversation as well: disappointing in a
> way, I was just getting interested.
He, like I, must be fed up with bitch-slapping you over and over again
>
> Baronjosefr wrote:
> > Information that was also provided by the Intelligence services of
Britain,
> > France, Italy, etc. etc. etc.
>
> As per usual, the facts contradict your bizzare fantasies.
If you knew half of what you thought you actually did, you would still be an
ignoramous.
> French Intelligence Service analysis of WMD claims contradicts
> publicised CIA "assessment":
> http://www.isis-online.org/publications/iraq/usallieswmd.htm l
>
> Architect of the war Paul Wolfowitz, proclaims publically in a
> interview with Vanity Fair that the supposed WMD were not the real
> reason he wanted war on Saddams Iraq
And the point to that is? Besides the top of your head, of course.
- meanwhile, Jack Straw and Colin
> Powell, whilst publically confident are privately doubtful about the
> strength of the WMD claims - prior to the invasion:
> http://www.countercurrents.org/us-mackay020603.htm
>
It is amazing how you always seem to find the left-leaning American-bashing
sites to back up your bullshit. Try finding one that is actually
non-partisan, for a change. By the way, despite your hopes and wished,
Sodamn Insane won't be ruling in Iraq any time soon. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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| Re: OT: European Integration [was:"Computer Glitches" Beat John Kerry" or How to Rig [message #58020 ] |
Do, 09 Juni 2005 05:30 |
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"Henriette" <heldenib [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1118258992.934629.18950 [at] f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Baronjosefr wrote:
> > "Henriette" <heldenib [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1117784039.658087.240910 [at] g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > Nevertheless the last war *we* were sucked into, was started by the
> > > USA, against the wish of the UN.
> >
> > And against the wishes of Sodamn Insane, who owned France and Russia's
U.N.
> > vote....don't forget that, please.
>
> I'd be interested in the outcome of a referendum amongst the people of
> Iraq, if they in retrospect, are for or against the invasion. What I
> see in the daily news of the hostile reactions of the Iraqi people,
> doesn't look one bit like the ecstatic happiness which came over Europe
> when it was freed from the nazi's.
If you read ALL the history books, you will find that there was a great deal
of similar activity in areas of Europe and Asia after the defeat of the
nazis and Imperial Japanese. And there is no doubt that the after-war
occupation was botched. And if you would care to notice, the vast majority
of attacks are directed at Iraqi Security forces, not the U.S. And, although
this is not reported at all in the left-leaning European and North American
papers, there is a great deal of anger in the basic Iraqi populace that is
directed at the foreign-born terrorists, for their indiscriminate decimation
of regular Iraqis.
So is this
> car-bombing/foreign-soldiers-attacking group just a small group of
> religious fanatics, or do they represent a majority of the Iraqi
> people?
neither. I wouldn't insult the true meaning of Islam by saying those idiots
are religious zealots. and there are a small number of Iraqis that will lay
down arms quickly when the occupation is over. The issue will remain
Zarqawi, and his fellow assholes, of course.
>
> Henriette
>
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