| OT Battle of the Red Cliffs [message #47335] |
Mi, 25 Mai 2005 20:45 |
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Imagine staging this battle, itself but one of a number of similarly
brilliant battles by all sides (not to mention grand strategies) in the
Three Kingdoms. Still looking for the river-crossing though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Red_Cliffs
It sounds like I'd remembered the crossing wrongly, but the reality was
even more entertaining. Can't find it on wiki unless I can figure out
the names of the Generals, but it took place during the Northern and
Southern Dynasties (420-589 AD).
--
Cheers, ymt.
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| Re: OT Battle of the Red Cliffs [message #47337 ] |
Mi, 25 Mai 2005 21:44 |
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Well, if you wanted to be on topic you should have said Emyn carnen...
:-P
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| Re: OT Battle of the Red Cliffs [message #47340 ] |
Mi, 25 Mai 2005 22:43 |
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"Morthond" <morfalas [at] yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1117050254.133007.79160 [at] g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
> Well, if you wanted to be on topic you should have said Emyn
> carnen...
I was looking for te example of the river crossing in response to
someone's complaint about PJFaramir's tactics, and came across this,
which was also related to another film-derived comment I made a few
days ago. I'm still looking for that crossing, having got names
which I've roughly pinyinised as 'Zhe Xie' and 'Zhe Yuan'. Neither
wikiing nor googling has turned anything up, but I've got additional
info that the battle took place during the Northern and Southern
Dynasties.
Still, the Three Kingdoms are worth reading about if one is looking
for historical or vaguely historical epics (as LotR was written to
be). Interesting characters and relationships, military geniuses,
grand strategies, epic and creative battles, the lot. The western
equivalents would be the Hannibalic and Napoleonic Wars, but the
Three Kingdoms contains more interesting stories than either.
Longzhong Plan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longzhong_Plan
Three Kingdoms
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Kingdoms
And a grim note of why it was traditionally thought better to have
_any_ central government than civil war.
'The Three Kingdoms period is one of the bloodiest in Chinese
history. A population census in late Eastern Han dynasty reported a
population of approximately 56 million, while a population census in
early Western Jin dynasty (after Jin re-unified China) reported a
population of approximately 16 million. Even taking into account the
inaccuracies of these census reports, it's safe to assume that a
large percentage of the population was wiped out during the constant
wars waged during this period.'
--
Cheers, ymt.
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| Re: OT Battle of the Red Cliffs [message #47356 ] |
Do, 26 Mai 2005 11:39 |
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"Yuk Tang" <jim.laker2 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9661DD09A50DFjimlaker2yahoocom [at] 81.174.12.30...
> And a grim note of why it was traditionally thought better to have
> _any_ central government than civil war.
A form of comparison would have a civil war in Europe where one nation state
conquers all and dominates the European land mass from Dover to Madrid to
Rome to Moscow.
One of the ironies of history is that the chaos in Europe, although it
inspired many wars, also drove innovation and expansion. Once China was
unified, the Chinese basically sat back and didn't expand despite having the
resources to do so. The Chinese were a major seafaring people in the 15th
century and had huge ocean going vessels in big fleets. They apparently went
to the Americas and African coast. They collected animals, some treasure,
and then buggered back home.
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