| Re: Gollum's Escape [message #38986] |
Mi, 18 Mai 2005 22:45 |
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"Larry Swain" <theswain [at] operamail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:z--dnTuaBtxO7BbfRVn-2g [at] rcn.net...
> True, but I suspect that he also knows that it was Sauron who had him
> released and commanded him to seek the Ring for Sauron.
Not necessarily. From what he told Frodo he seems to have been genuinely
convinced that he escaped from Mordor by his own cunning - although we
certainly know from Shagrat's and Gorbag's conversation that he was
permitted to escape. But perhaps Gollum was in such a turmoil of confusions
that he was in deep double-think: partly believing that he escaped by his
own cunning (which would have boosted his self-esteem) and partly realizing
that he had been permitted out. Gollum may have been a wretched addict, but
he was no braindead dope.
Crú.
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| Re: Gollum's Escape [message #40098 ] |
Do, 19 Mai 2005 19:21 |
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Raven wrote:
> "Larry Swain" <theswain [at] operamail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:z--dnTuaBtxO7BbfRVn-2g [at] rcn.net...
>
>
>>True, but I suspect that he also knows that it was Sauron who had him
>>released and commanded him to seek the Ring for Sauron.
>
>
> Not necessarily. From what he told Frodo he seems to have been genuinely
> convinced that he escaped from Mordor by his own cunning - although we
> certainly know from Shagrat's and Gorbag's conversation that he was
> permitted to escape. But perhaps Gollum was in such a turmoil of confusions
> that he was in deep double-think: partly believing that he escaped by his
> own cunning (which would have boosted his self-esteem) and partly realizing
> that he had been permitted out. Gollum may have been a wretched addict, but
> he was no braindead dope.
I reread the UT part....I have to agree. Sauron ordered him released
and trailed, but nothing about laying an order on him to return with the
Ring. So that was a red herring.
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| Re: Gollum's Escape [message #40107 ] |
Fr, 20 Mai 2005 00:59 |
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Larry Swain <theswain [at] operamail.com> wrote:
> Raven wrote:
>> "Larry Swain" <theswain [at] operamail.com> skrev:
>>
>>> True, but I suspect that he also knows that it was Sauron who had
>>> him released and commanded him to seek the Ring for Sauron.
>>
>> Not necessarily. From what he told Frodo he seems to have been
>> genuinely convinced that he escaped from Mordor by his own cunning -
>> although we certainly know from Shagrat's and Gorbag's conversation
>> that he was permitted to escape. But perhaps Gollum was in such a
>> turmoil of confusions that he was in deep double-think: partly
>> believing that he escaped by his own cunning (which would have
>> boosted his self-esteem) and partly realizing that he had been
>> permitted out. Gollum may have been a wretched addict, but he was
>> no braindead dope.
>
> I reread the UT part....I have to agree. Sauron ordered him released
> and trailed, but nothing about laying an order on him to return with
> the Ring. So that was a red herring.
But who wrote that account in UT? Sauron? How do we really know what was
going on here? The people who wrote the original account were reading
between the lines as much as we are. Is Tolkien in omnipotent mode here?
Is he telling us what really happened, or is it an historical account?
Christopher
--
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Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard
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