Terra Prime sucked

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Science Fiction » alt.startrek » Terra Prime sucked

Terra Prime sucked [message #34684]

So, 15 Mai 2005 06:52

Bo Raxo

I can't believe the posters who are slamming TATV and in the next breath
saying how great Terra Prime was. The prejudice issue has been visited
umpteen times before in Trek, and done better. Remember Sisko as Gabriel
Bell? Now that was something adult and complex, not this simplistic
Robo-Nazi character Weller played and the jingoistic stuff that we're
supposed to buy. Please, it's like they were writing for kids, the issues
are so black and white.

And we're supposed to believe that you can capture this one crucial spot
(the comet deflector) and have a shot at anything anywhere. Ridiculous from
a strategic point of view, and ridiculous from the orbital angles point of
view, and ridiculous from a physics point of view (hello inverse square law,
my old friend).

And that just scratches the surface of the plot holes in the story.

All kinds of non-drama and non-tension. Oohhh, RoboNazi is going to make
the Jupiter II...I mean, the mining station go through a five second warp
burst! My God, will it shake apart? Yeah, we're really thinking that could
happen. Well, not much tension to build, since it's over in five seconds.
This is supposed to be nail-biting drama? Watch Admiral Decker flying the
Enterprise in to the mouth of the planet killer while Spock tries to
dissuade him, that's drama. Or heck, watch Trip try and fast-talk the
raiding party that came for Shran in TATV. Dramatic, tense. Good TV.

Toss in Mayweather's ex-girlfriend. It's hard to be fair to this storyline,
since the acting from the guy that plays "MayIhavesomethingtodofinally" is
so unbelievably terrible. But it's something that pretty much doesn't matter
to the story anyway, she doesn't really do jack. The scenes with these two
do nothing but telegraph obvious developments between them while doing
nothing to advance the "A" story.

Not enough story to fill two episodes, and the "baby" storyline was pretty
much superfluous, it was only there to give a big emotional scene at the end
over the baby being dead. Watching a full Vulcan have such an emotional
meltdown was ridiculous; could you see Spock wailing and whining like that?
I guess you have to just feel sorry for Blalock, since the character is
written so incredibly badly.

Just lame beyond belief. I can't believe some of you think it would have
made a good season (or even series) finale. When I buy the season 4
Enterprise DVD, I doubt I'll ever watch these two parts again.

Bo Raxo

--
"The release of atom power has changed everything except our way of
thinking... the solution to this problem lies in the heart of mankind. If
only I had known, I should have become a watchmaker. "
--Albert Einstein

Re: Terra Prime sucked [message #34687 ]

So, 15 Mai 2005 07:04

Snake

Re: Terra Prime sucked [message #34690 ]

So, 15 Mai 2005 07:12

Bo Raxo

"Snake" <fluidstates_NO+SPAM [at] REMOVE-ME.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:WLAhe.2333$BF5.1900 [at] trndny06...
> "Bo Raxo" <invasions_r_us [at] thepentagon.removethis.com> wrote in message
> news:tAAhe.797$X92.0 [at] newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >
> > I can't believe the posters who are slamming TATV and in the next breath
> > saying how great Terra Prime was. The prejudice issue has been visited
> > umpteen times before in Trek, and done better. Remember Sisko as
Gabriel
> > Bell?
>
> For me, forget Sisco and Gabriel Bell, the very very best prejudice
episode
> in Star Trek history involved Kira and Marritza in DS9's "Duet". What an
> episode! And I'm not even a DS9 fan!
>

That episode was just amazing. Incredibly good dialogue, and the
performances by Visitor and the guest star were absolutely perfect. It was
an incredible hour of Trek.

But point being, with Trek having done something like this, the way the same
issue is handled in Terra Prime (and earlier in Enterprise, with Phlox
getting trouble on Earth) is just juvenile.

Bo Raxo

Re: Terra Prime sucked [message #34694 ]

So, 15 Mai 2005 08:35

ToolPackinMama

Snake wrote:
> "Bo Raxo" <invasions_r_us [at] thepentagon.removethis.com> wrote in message
> news:tAAhe.797$X92.0 [at] newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>>I can't believe the posters who are slamming TATV and in the next breath
>>saying how great Terra Prime was. The prejudice issue has been visited
>>umpteen times before in Trek, and done better. Remember Sisko as Gabriel
>>Bell?
>
>
> For me, forget Sisco and Gabriel Bell, the very very best prejudice episode
> in Star Trek history involved Kira and Marritza in DS9's "Duet". What an
> episode! And I'm not even a DS9 fan!
>
>

TOS dealt with that issue several times, and beautifully.

Devil In The Dark
Is There In Truth No Beauty?
Metamorphosis
Day Of The Dove
Balance Of Terror

To name a few.

Re: Terra Prime sucked [message #34696 ]

So, 15 Mai 2005 08:46

Bo Raxo

"ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
news:118dre8m6ralif0 [at] news.supernews.com...
>
> TOS dealt with that issue several times, and beautifully.
>
> Devil In The Dark
> Is There In Truth No Beauty?

That was not about prejudice, it was about how the ends don't justify the
means.

> Metamorphosis

That wasn't about prejudice, it was about how love overcomes physical
differences.

> Day Of The Dove

That wasn't about prejudice, it was about the futility of war, and how wars
are kept going by those who profit from them.

> Balance Of Terror
>

That wasn't about prejudice, although that was a minor point with one
character. It was about how keeping a mutually assured destruction could
keep the peace.

Dang, you really don't get the simplest themes in TOS after all these years.
How sad.

Bo Raxo

Re: Terra Prime sucked [message #34702 ]

So, 15 Mai 2005 13:25

Jaxtraw

"Bo Raxo" <invasions_r_us [at] thepentagon.removethis.com> wrote in message
news:tAAhe.797$X92.0 [at] newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> I can't believe the posters who are slamming TATV and in the next breath
> saying how great Terra Prime was. The prejudice issue has been visited
> umpteen times before in Trek, and done better. Remember Sisko as Gabriel
> Bell? Now that was something adult and complex, not this simplistic
> Robo-Nazi character Weller played and the jingoistic stuff that we're
> supposed to buy. Please, it's like they were writing for kids, the issues
> are so black and white.
>
> And we're supposed to believe that you can capture this one crucial spot
> (the comet deflector) and have a shot at anything anywhere. Ridiculous
from
> a strategic point of view, and ridiculous from the orbital angles point of
> view, and ridiculous from a physics point of view (hello inverse square
law,
> my old friend).
>
> And that just scratches the surface of the plot holes in the story.
>
> All kinds of non-drama and non-tension. Oohhh, RoboNazi is going to make
> the Jupiter II...I mean, the mining station go through a five second warp
> burst! My God, will it shake apart? Yeah, we're really thinking that
could
> happen. Well, not much tension to build, since it's over in five seconds.
> This is supposed to be nail-biting drama? Watch Admiral Decker flying the
> Enterprise in to the mouth of the planet killer while Spock tries to
> dissuade him, that's drama. Or heck, watch Trip try and fast-talk the
> raiding party that came for Shran in TATV. Dramatic, tense. Good TV.
>
> Toss in Mayweather's ex-girlfriend. It's hard to be fair to this
storyline,
> since the acting from the guy that plays "MayIhavesomethingtodofinally" is
> so unbelievably terrible. But it's something that pretty much doesn't
matter
> to the story anyway, she doesn't really do jack. The scenes with these
two
> do nothing but telegraph obvious developments between them while doing
> nothing to advance the "A" story.
>
> Not enough story to fill two episodes, and the "baby" storyline was pretty
> much superfluous, it was only there to give a big emotional scene at the
end
> over the baby being dead. Watching a full Vulcan have such an emotional
> meltdown was ridiculous; could you see Spock wailing and whining like
that?
> I guess you have to just feel sorry for Blalock, since the character is
> written so incredibly badly.
>
> Just lame beyond belief. I can't believe some of you think it would have
> made a good season (or even series) finale. When I buy the season 4
> Enterprise DVD, I doubt I'll ever watch these two parts again.
>
>

I agree with most of that. I'm kinda sick of America endlessly wrestling in
public with its infantile inability to live with the fact that its citizens
come in a range of colours and styles, and TOS dealt with race perfectly
well 40 years ago. I'm kinda sick of the fact that Americans still get
titillated by the sight of a black man and a white woman touching each
other. I'm sorry, I'm British and I'm the first to agree that my country has
many problems, but for heaven's sake we were running TV shows called My
Neighbour Is A Darkie and My Son's Marrying A Nignog 30 years ago, and we've
got over it now. Grow up, for fuck's sake.

OTOH, the baby storyline although it was never clear why RoboActor bothered
making the baby in the first place, did have great emotional resonance for
me once it was brought to the personal level, after all the pointless plot
was over. The final scene with Tucker and T'Pol was a three hankie job for
me. I thought they both performed it extremely well, especially Trinneer,
but then he had the advantage of being allowed to emote unashamedly.

As to T'Pol emoting; well, we've all seen a Vulcan emote before. There are
really three types of Vulcan performances- the Sarek style (classically
trained gravitas), the style most other Vulcans have been (act like a plank)
and the Spock style (seething emotions, supressed by force of will).
Blalocks's the only other actor to achieve the Spockish Vulcan stylee other
than Nimoy. I think it's sad she was put in the position of being the show
"babe" when she didn't really look the part, and she's got a lot of stick
for that. As an actress, she's fine IMHO. I thought the scene worked very
well, once you "get" what type of Vulcan she's portraying.

Ian

--
____________________
A quality online comic strip for the discerning reader.
With shagging in it.
http://www.jaxtrawstudios.com

Re: Terra Prime sucked [message #34708 ]

So, 15 Mai 2005 14:50

Michael Rhino

Re: Terra Prime sucked [message #34717 ]

So, 15 Mai 2005 16:47

Erwin

Bo Raxo wrote:

[snip]

>And that just scratches the surface of the plot holes in the story.
>
>
What struck me as a blatent error was the whole "cracking glass" scene
in the colony/ship's control centre. When the Enterprise away team
prepared to go to the surface, it was specifically mentioned that Mars'
lower altitudes were terraformed so pressure suits were no longer
neccessary. Only oxygen remained in short supply. Since the away team
does not pack pressure suits, it stands to reason the colony/ship is in
the lower altitudes. But when one of them shoots the window and it
cracks (which a phaser? I thought they only heated stuff up, shouldn't
it melt?) the crack grows because of the pressure difference and finally
the air rushes out of the room... Nope, no rushing air, no growing
crack, at the very most a mingling of gasses and a slow loss of oxygen.

[snip]

>Not enough story to fill two episodes, and the "baby" storyline was pretty
>much superfluous, it was only there to give a big emotional scene at the end
>over the baby being dead. Watching a full Vulcan have such an emotional
>meltdown was ridiculous; could you see Spock wailing and whining like that?
>I guess you have to just feel sorry for Blalock, since the character is
>written so incredibly badly.
>
>
I thought the baby was engineered to prove beyond doubt that aliens and
humans did not mix - a showcase of abomination to strengthen the Terra
Prime case. Something that was hinted at by Phlox's research which
showed that the genetic engineering of the baby was flawed and that
Vulcans and humans actually did mix. In other words, it seemed like
manufactured evidence to me, and made for a good plot enhancing element
as well as good drama. Also, I did not see a lot of emotional melting
down and whining on T'Pol's part at the end... Maybe you confused her
with Trip? T'Pol portrayed someone forcing down emotions as best she
could. She never shed a tear but just looked a nice blend of stoic and
intensely sad. Besides, she's shown more emotion at numerous other
occassions. I would not have even objected to an actual tear forming as
she embraced Trip in mutual comfort.

Someone said in another post in this thread that she acted like a
Spock-ish Vulcan and I see the resemblance.

>Just lame beyond belief. I can't believe some of you think it would have
>made a good season (or even series) finale. When I buy the season 4
>Enterprise DVD, I doubt I'll ever watch these two parts again.
>
>
>Bo Raxo
>
It wasn't the finale. That was the episode with Riker, who, if I may
say, was the best actor during that episode. But that's a whole
different story...

Erwin

Re: Terra Prime sucked [message #34803 ]

Mo, 16 Mai 2005 02:04

Alkai

"ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
news:118dre8m6ralif0 [at] news.supernews.com...
> Snake wrote:
>> "Bo Raxo" <invasions_r_us [at] thepentagon.removethis.com> wrote in message
>> news:tAAhe.797$X92.0 [at] newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>>>I can't believe the posters who are slamming TATV and in the next breath
>>>saying how great Terra Prime was. The prejudice issue has been visited
>>>umpteen times before in Trek, and done better. Remember Sisko as Gabriel
>>>Bell?
>>
>>
>> For me, forget Sisco and Gabriel Bell, the very very best prejudice
>> episode in Star Trek history involved Kira and Marritza in DS9's "Duet".
>> What an episode! And I'm not even a DS9 fan!
>
> TOS dealt with that issue several times, and beautifully.
>
> Devil In The Dark
> Is There In Truth No Beauty?
> Metamorphosis
> Day Of The Dove
> Balance Of Terror
>
> To name a few.

--------------------
My two cents please......

"Let This Be Your Last Battlefield" the episode that featured Frank
Gorshin as Commissioner Bele pf the planet Cheron, an alien with one side of
his face completely black and the other side completely white, who was
chasing Lokai who had the same facial coloring as Commissioner Bele but the
white and black sides were reversed. When Captain Kirk called attention to
Commissioner Bele that he couldn't understand what the problem was seeing
that they were the same color, Commissioner Bele got angry and informed Kirk
that they were not the same. Kirk pointed out that they both had one black
side and one white side and Commissioner Bele informed Captain Kirk that he
was Black on the Right side. And Kirk still didn't quite get what
Commissioner Bele was saying, so Bele pointed it out for Kirk by stating
that Lokai was Black on his left side and that was what made Bele superior,
because all the ruling class of Cheron were Black on the right side.
Prejudice at its ugliest. I guess it was Gene Roddenberry's idea to push the
point of prejudice as far home as possible by presenting the argument in the
most ridicules light possible. I think he succeeded, because almost
everybody I have spoken to about this episode felt that it was the most
blatant story about prejudice that they had ever seen.

Alkai

Re: Terra Prime sucked [message #34808 ]

Mo, 16 Mai 2005 02:57

Snake

"Alkai" <alkai [at] tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:LsRhe.41123$IO.16643 [at] tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
> "Let This Be Your Last Battlefield" the episode that featured Frank
> Gorshin as Commissioner Bele pf the planet Cheron, an alien with one side
> of his face completely black and the other side completely white, who was
> chasing Lokai who had the same facial coloring as Commissioner Bele but
> the white and black sides were reversed. When Captain Kirk called
> attention to Commissioner Bele that he couldn't understand what the
> problem was seeing that they were the same color, Commissioner Bele got
> angry and informed Kirk that they were not the same. Kirk pointed out that
> they both had one black side and one white side and Commissioner Bele
> informed Captain Kirk that he was Black on the Right side. And Kirk still
> didn't quite get what Commissioner Bele was saying, so Bele pointed it out
> for Kirk by stating that Lokai was Black on his left side and that was
> what made Bele superior, because all the ruling class of Cheron were Black
> on the right side. Prejudice at its ugliest. I guess it was Gene
> Roddenberry's idea to push the point of prejudice as far home as possible
> by presenting the argument in the most ridicules light possible. I think
> he succeeded, because almost everybody I have spoken to about this episode
> felt that it was the most blatant story about prejudice that they had ever
> seen.

Ooh, good example. An excellent episode, made fantastic by the guest actor
for sure. Gorshin is a great actor - amazing how he turns from Riddler to
almost anything he pleases.

The difference between "Let This Be" and "Duet" is that the Cheronites do
not change, do not learn anything from their experience. The pathos level
of "Duet" sky rocketed through the roof when Kira is holding the dying
Marritza and, almost in absolute tears, says "No. It's not".

"Let This Be" will always stand as one of the finest examples of, very
openly, bringing the issue of racism to the fore. But "Duet", along with
accomplishing the same goal, shows what can happen to people when they
experience it for themselves. Marritza tries to sacrifice his own life in
guilt. Kira, a "hero", is the protagonist and actually, as the tables turn
during the episode, turns out to be the "villain"...and yet cries as he
dies. It is one of the most moving racial commentaries I have ever seen.
Nothing is as it seems, nothing turns out the way you expect. The good
turns out, in a mirror, to be bad and the bad turned out to be good...and
still the racist commentary flows through the entire story.

Vorheriges Thema:	The world is really unstable these days......
Nächstes Thema:	I love it when Kirk says stuff like this

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