Sprinkler Systems Uhaul move Lawn care Roses and trees Ford Parts Chrysler Parts Lake Powell New IPod Touch Apps New IPhone Apps IPhone Apps IPad Information IPad Apps Android APPS Android Games APPS Android Systems Android Tablets APPS and Beyond Smartphone Apps Smartphone Games Apps Repair and Tools Tablet PC Car Sharing Car Leasing Tabler Pc Fly Fishing Toyota Cars Vacation Rentals Stock market NYSE SSE Stock Freight & Shipping News Gluten Lactose Gout My Coupon Life Campgrounds Check Outdoor Kitchen Design and Redoo Bath Remodeling Palm Springs Las Vegas Vacation Tipps Lake Powell Boating Homes for lease Electric and green Car Blog Pearls and diamonds Whatsapp and forget SMS Blog, What is Whatsapp App Solar Panel Solar Energie Sun Power Blog
Reader


[Suche]  [Administrator]  [Hinweise zum Reader]  [Startseite]
Science Fiction » alt.startrek » "These Are The Voyages"; Having Just Watched It, A Considered Review
"These Are The Voyages"; Having Just Watched It, A Considered Review [message #34607] Sa, 14 Mai 2005 18:49
Jaxtraw  
....40 minutes of B&B yelling

FUK U LUSERS LOLOLOL!!1!!!!11111!!!!!!

at what remains of the Trek fanbase.

Risible, utterly contemptible and, surely, it should never be considered
canonical. They couldn't even get a decent CGI model of the NCC1701, fer
crying out loud.

Ian
Re: "These Are The Voyages"; Having Just Watched It, A Considered Review [message #34622 ] Sa, 14 Mai 2005 23:09
Gernot Pfanner  
Hi!

Ah..shut up! You don't know that much about Star Trek than Rick Berman
does. The next series will probably be called "Cooking with Riker".
***Spolier alert*** Maybe this isn't the plot for a new series but
for "Star Trek XI".
In this spirit
Yours Gernot
Re: "These Are The Voyages"; Having Just Watched It, A ConsideredReview [message #34636 ] So, 15 Mai 2005 00:23
ToolPackinMama  
Jaxtraw wrote:
> ...40 minutes of B&B yelling
>
> FUK U LUSERS LOLOLOL!!1!!!!11111!!!!!!
>
> at what remains of the Trek fanbase.

That was succinct. :)
Re: "These Are The Voyages"; Having Just Watched It, A Considered Review [message #34638 ] So, 15 Mai 2005 02:11
Bo Raxo  
"Jaxtraw" <jaxtraw [at] nospamnobigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:42862b64$0$37692$ed2619ec [at] ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
> ...40 minutes of B&B yelling
>
> FUK U LUSERS LOLOLOL!!1!!!!11111!!!!!!
>
> at what remains of the Trek fanbase.
>
> Risible, utterly contemptible and, surely, it should never be considered
> canonical. They couldn't even get a decent CGI model of the NCC1701, fer
> crying out loud.
>


You're SO wrong. I've watched the tape twice now, and it really rocks. A
great way to tie in the various series, and an excuse to jump ahead six
years in the Enterprise timeline to see an event that really serves as a
resolution to the voyages of NX-01.

If you didn't use the holodeck story framing device, then what would you do,
just not explain the jump? Or do some time-travel story, with the smell of
a reset button looming? The holodeck explanation precluded a reset button
from the beginning - you knew it already happened. And the NextGen tie in
made it obvious it was all canon. As a fan, I take these as huge gestures
of respect. Whether it was Berman or Braga or Coto or the whole show is
secretly written by the janitor, I don't know and I don't care, it was a
great way to tell the story.

And getting to see parts of the Enterprise D - what a HUGE treat! I feel
like I should write a check to Paramount, I'd have paid to see that stuff.
Scenes in Ten-Forward, a surprise (to me, anyway) voice cameo by Brent
Spiner, watching Troi walk out of the Holodeck in to the Enterprise D with
the NX-01 bridge frozen behind her...that was just utterly extremely
thumping my couch and jumping like an 8 year old who just ate the entire
package of sugar cookies can't believe they did it exciting.

Though why she asked for the arch when she wanted the exit, I don't know.

Which brings me to some little nits, production things. Seemed like all of
the doors in the NextGen corridors looked like they weren't quite the right
color, something about them was off. Maybe lit differently, I don't know,
but something looked different. Frakes and Sirtis are visibly older than
they were in "The Pegasus", but I can forgive that because it's another
amazing gesture of respect to us irremediable fan geeks. Yay geeks!

In the shuttle bay scene where Shran is holding his daughter, the two of
them are very different colors. He's blue, and she's closer to green, but
definitely not his shade. She looked blue on the planet's surface, just
more greenish when in the shuttle bay.

But Riker playing Chef...c'mon, that's some fun stuff! Killing off a
regular, that's pretty bold. Should have happened in the first or second
season, but that's hardly the biggest problems of those seasons.

This is a show that started out not even having "Star Trek" in it's title.
Now the final episode is something only someone who knows a big chunk of
backstory can really get, with jumps around in time and tons of little
inside jokes (a toast to the next generation, Troi mentioning that her
appointment is with Reg). What a turnaround.

That wasn't the producers saying "F.U." It was the producers saying, "We
were wrong to not call it Trek from the beginning. We were wrong to ignore
canon. The fans insisted we respect it as a part of Trek lore, and that's
what we are doing. " It was a love letter to the fans of the franchise. It
was everything I could have asked for, and more.



Bo Raxo
Re: "These Are The Voyages"; Having Just Watched It, A Considered Review [message #34647 ] So, 15 Mai 2005 02:33
Eric Nichols  
man...you're weird


"Bo Raxo" <invasions_r_us [at] thepentagon.removethis.com> wrote in message
news:ctwhe.734$Lc1.10 [at] newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Jaxtraw" <jaxtraw [at] nospamnobigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:42862b64$0$37692$ed2619ec [at] ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
> > ...40 minutes of B&B yelling
> >
> > FUK U LUSERS LOLOLOL!!1!!!!11111!!!!!!
> >
> > at what remains of the Trek fanbase.
> >
> > Risible, utterly contemptible and, surely, it should never be considered
> > canonical. They couldn't even get a decent CGI model of the NCC1701, fer
> > crying out loud.
> >
>
>
> You're SO wrong. I've watched the tape twice now, and it really rocks. A
> great way to tie in the various series, and an excuse to jump ahead six
> years in the Enterprise timeline to see an event that really serves as a
> resolution to the voyages of NX-01.
>
> If you didn't use the holodeck story framing device, then what would you
do,
> just not explain the jump? Or do some time-travel story, with the smell
of
> a reset button looming? The holodeck explanation precluded a reset button
> from the beginning - you knew it already happened. And the NextGen tie in
> made it obvious it was all canon. As a fan, I take these as huge gestures
> of respect. Whether it was Berman or Braga or Coto or the whole show is
> secretly written by the janitor, I don't know and I don't care, it was a
> great way to tell the story.
>
> And getting to see parts of the Enterprise D - what a HUGE treat! I feel
> like I should write a check to Paramount, I'd have paid to see that stuff.
> Scenes in Ten-Forward, a surprise (to me, anyway) voice cameo by Brent
> Spiner, watching Troi walk out of the Holodeck in to the Enterprise D with
> the NX-01 bridge frozen behind her...that was just utterly extremely
> thumping my couch and jumping like an 8 year old who just ate the entire
> package of sugar cookies can't believe they did it exciting.
>
> Though why she asked for the arch when she wanted the exit, I don't know.
>
> Which brings me to some little nits, production things. Seemed like all
of
> the doors in the NextGen corridors looked like they weren't quite the
right
> color, something about them was off. Maybe lit differently, I don't know,
> but something looked different. Frakes and Sirtis are visibly older than
> they were in "The Pegasus", but I can forgive that because it's another
> amazing gesture of respect to us irremediable fan geeks. Yay geeks!
>
> In the shuttle bay scene where Shran is holding his daughter, the two of
> them are very different colors. He's blue, and she's closer to green, but
> definitely not his shade. She looked blue on the planet's surface, just
> more greenish when in the shuttle bay.
>
> But Riker playing Chef...c'mon, that's some fun stuff! Killing off a
> regular, that's pretty bold. Should have happened in the first or second
> season, but that's hardly the biggest problems of those seasons.
>
> This is a show that started out not even having "Star Trek" in it's title.
> Now the final episode is something only someone who knows a big chunk of
> backstory can really get, with jumps around in time and tons of little
> inside jokes (a toast to the next generation, Troi mentioning that her
> appointment is with Reg). What a turnaround.
>
> That wasn't the producers saying "F.U." It was the producers saying,
"We
> were wrong to not call it Trek from the beginning. We were wrong to
ignore
> canon. The fans insisted we respect it as a part of Trek lore, and
that's
> what we are doing. " It was a love letter to the fans of the franchise.
It
> was everything I could have asked for, and more.
>
>
>
> Bo Raxo
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: "These Are The Voyages"; Having Just Watched It, A Considered Review [message #34660 ] So, 15 Mai 2005 04:35
Jaxtraw  
"Bo Raxo" <invasions_r_us [at] thepentagon.removethis.com> wrote in message
news:ctwhe.734$Lc1.10 [at] newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Jaxtraw" <jaxtraw [at] nospamnobigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:42862b64$0$37692$ed2619ec [at] ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
> > ...40 minutes of B&B yelling
> >
> > FUK U LUSERS LOLOLOL!!1!!!!11111!!!!!!
> >
> > at what remains of the Trek fanbase.
> >
> > Risible, utterly contemptible and, surely, it should never be considered
> > canonical. They couldn't even get a decent CGI model of the NCC1701, fer
> > crying out loud.
> >
>
>
> You're SO wrong. I've watched the tape twice now, and it really rocks. A
> great way to tie in the various series, and an excuse to jump ahead six
> years in the Enterprise timeline to see an event that really serves as a
> resolution to the voyages of NX-01.
>
> If you didn't use the holodeck story framing device, then what would you
do,
> just not explain the jump? Or do some time-travel story, with the smell
of
> a reset button looming? The holodeck explanation precluded a reset button
> from the beginning - you knew it already happened. And the NextGen tie in
> made it obvious it was all canon. As a fan, I take these as huge gestures
> of respect. Whether it was Berman or Braga or Coto or the whole show is
> secretly written by the janitor, I don't know and I don't care, it was a
> great way to tell the story.
>
> And getting to see parts of the Enterprise D - what a HUGE treat! I feel
> like I should write a check to Paramount, I'd have paid to see that stuff.
> Scenes in Ten-Forward, a surprise (to me, anyway) voice cameo by Brent
> Spiner, watching Troi walk out of the Holodeck in to the Enterprise D with
> the NX-01 bridge frozen behind her...that was just utterly extremely
> thumping my couch and jumping like an 8 year old who just ate the entire
> package of sugar cookies can't believe they did it exciting.
>
> Though why she asked for the arch when she wanted the exit, I don't know.
>
> Which brings me to some little nits, production things. Seemed like all
of
> the doors in the NextGen corridors looked like they weren't quite the
right
> color, something about them was off. Maybe lit differently, I don't know,
> but something looked different. Frakes and Sirtis are visibly older than
> they were in "The Pegasus", but I can forgive that because it's another
> amazing gesture of respect to us irremediable fan geeks. Yay geeks!
>
> In the shuttle bay scene where Shran is holding his daughter, the two of
> them are very different colors. He's blue, and she's closer to green, but
> definitely not his shade. She looked blue on the planet's surface, just
> more greenish when in the shuttle bay.
>
> But Riker playing Chef...c'mon, that's some fun stuff! Killing off a
> regular, that's pretty bold. Should have happened in the first or second
> season, but that's hardly the biggest problems of those seasons.
>
> This is a show that started out not even having "Star Trek" in it's title.
> Now the final episode is something only someone who knows a big chunk of
> backstory can really get, with jumps around in time and tons of little
> inside jokes (a toast to the next generation, Troi mentioning that her
> appointment is with Reg). What a turnaround.
>
> That wasn't the producers saying "F.U." It was the producers saying,
"We
> were wrong to not call it Trek from the beginning. We were wrong to
ignore
> canon. The fans insisted we respect it as a part of Trek lore, and
that's
> what we are doing. " It was a love letter to the fans of the franchise.
It
> was everything I could have asked for, and more.
>
>
>
> Bo Raxo
>
>

This is sarcasm, right, Bo? I mean, you're not actually serious are you?
This thing sucked like a Dyson.

There were so many things wrong with it, it'd be easier to list what
*wasn't* wrong with it. Here's that list...

Things That Are Not Wrong With TATV
______________________________

1...

Nope, I can't think of anything.

Things That Are The Most Wrong With TATV
__________________________________

1. The basic concept was utterly flawed. The whole "framing" was
unnecessary, and made the Ent cast into a sideshow. The Ent-period story
could have been told on its own- what advantage was there in having it
commented on by Riker and Troi? Worse, the frame belittled it- we had
something supposedly of grand significance (the birth of the Federation, the
death of a major character) and these are belittled by being turned into
therapy for Riker, making a trivial decision that nobody much cares about,
under the direction of Troi (played by Sirtis in an off-character,
irritating kind of a way). Once again, B&B use their superpower of sucking
all the life and interest out of everything they touch.

1a. The supposed link betwen the events on Enterprise and Riker's mundane
decision was so forced I still can't really see what it was.

1b. Also, the whole "Troi as therapist" angle was gradually, and wisely,
sidelined as TNG progressed. Her wearisome platitudes and obvious advice
never had much appeal and the whole ship's counsellor thing was possibly
Roddenberry's second stupidest idea (the stupidest being Wesley of course).
Troi became a better character as her California self-help bullshit fell by
the wayside. Well done B&B for bringing it back! ~sigh~

2. I cried like a baby at Trip and T'Pol's mourning at the end of the
previous episode. It was beautifully acted by them both, and a great bit of
script, a surprisingly heart rending little plot for something introduced so
rapidly. Now, fast forward, we find that nothing happened after that, and
the hope for their relationship which was implied came to nothing. Just
dropped. Nice way to go B&B.

3. The behaviour of the characters was really, really fucking stupid. Trip's
self sacrifice was really, really fucking stupid. Shran's behaviour was
really, really fucking stupid. Everything was really, really fucking stupid.
B&B were apparently determined that none of the characters were left with
any respect. Possibly because Coto's season had managed to make people
actually care about them for the first time, so in a crayon-flinging
tantrum, B&B tried to break them.

4. Framing it with Frakes and Sirtis playing their younger selves was
really, really fucking stupid, because neither of them look like their
younger selves any more. They both looked like sacks of spuds in those old
TNG costumes. If they wanted to frame it with a stupid TNG link, have them
on the Titan or something, their real ages. Or lock them in a gym for a
month. Or replace them with CGI or something. It was utterly unconvincing.

5. Tucker died during a commercial break. Bye bye Tucker, don't slam the
door on your way out.

6. After a season of risible special effects, the culmination was the final
scene, which appeared to be taken from Duke Nukem 3D, or some other game of
that period. The seating area was about as convincing as part of a huge hall
as in any cheapo cheapo sitcom from the 1970s where a dozen people sit on
benches in a tightly framed shot and pretend to be "at a hockey game".

7. Hoshi fancied Trip? Thanks for introducing this riveting plot thread, IN
THE FINAL EPISODE.

8. Why was T'Pol twitching like that as Archer mounted the stairs to give
his speech? St Vitus Dance? Squirming with embarrassment at the script she
was enacting?

9. We never heard Archer's speech. Why? Probably because B&B know they're
lousy writers and had no hope of writing a decent one.

10. Nobody bothers to tell the captain the ship is under attack. The captain
doesn't bother to command the response to this attack. Somebody bothers to
say there's an intruder alert, but nobody bothers to respond to it. Here's
the scene presumably on the bridge:

T'Pol: Intruder alert!

Hoshi: Whoo. So?

Reed: Well don't look at me, I do the phase cannons and say "hull plating at
32%".

Mayweather: Hell no, that's MY job, at least when they can afford to give me
lines instead of just paying me as an extra, anyway. I'm not going after any
intruders, I fly this ship!

Dumb Extra: <shrugs>


11. Sirtis's characterisation of Troi was really odd, sort of middle aged
airhead acting. This was a new kind of Troi, a *different* kind of Troi, a
Troi you really wanted to slap after 30 seconds or so.

12. Most of this never happened. It's a holodeck fantasy, an extrapolation
from a few basic facts. How the fuck would Starfleet records know how Tucker
and T'Pol felt about one another? They wouldn't. So, the ENT era stuff isn't
canon, these weren't the "real" characters we were watching, just simulacra.

13. This was a TNG episode, not an Enterprise episode. TNG fans may feel
they had some respect, but for Enterprise fans it was a spit in the face.
I've only just started liking Enterprise and even I felt slapped by it. Then
again, I liked TNG, and have said several times on this group that I'd liked
to see TNG movies continue with Riker and Troi. But I sure as hell didn't
want to see them back like this.

14. The gunfight with the irrelevant bad guys was so cheap, they just shot
it on a soundstage with a few random bits of old set. Pretending the
soundstage's real ceiling is a part of the set is as tacky as shit on a warm
pavement.

15. Where was Shran after Trip had died to protect him? Where was the
funeral for Trip? Where was the grand send-off? Answer: they didn't have
time for that because they need to show those essential RIKER CHOPPING
VEGETABLES scenes.

Anyway, the whole thing was just horrible. I will choose to believe that
following the televised adventures of the first Enterprise, Trip and T'Pol
eventually settled down together and had the first human/vulcan child. I'll
believe that because the last time we saw them written by a proper writer
who cared about the show, the scene was written to indicate that they had a
future together. It's a better future, it makes more sense in terms of
character; and this spiteful little parody by the outgoing producers is
simply irrelevant.

There have been some really memorable things about this 4th season. Real
Trek (my version of "real Trek" of course). Things like the gorgeous visual
design of the Aenar. The Tellarites too. Shran as a really compelling
character. Blalock's superb perfomance in the Mirror episodes (and also in
those, the marvellous Tholians, and of course the Defiant). The real
emotional impact of the baby's death. Cyia Batten's definitive Orion
portrayal. The whole feeling that one was watching real stories instead of
just another formula BBTrek episode. Much of that rendered completely ruined
by this episode; but only if you count it as canon, instead of putting it
where it belongs- in the same bin as the Star Wars Christmas Special.

Also, Shran's daughter is presumably a different shade because her mother's
Aenar, a truly amazing level of continuity for those fuckwits who wrote it.
Okay, that was the One Good Thing about the ep.

/rant

Ian

--
____________________
A quality online comic strip for the discerning reader.
With shagging in it.
http://www.jaxtrawstudios.com
Re: "These Are The Voyages"; Having Just Watched It, A ConsideredReview [message #34662 ] So, 15 Mai 2005 04:44
ToolPackinMama  
Jaxtraw wrote:

> 9. We never heard Archer's speech. Why? Probably because B&B know they're
> lousy writers and had no hope of writing a decent one.

Hoorah for most of what you said, but to be fair this isn't the first
time the chance to have a major character utter a stirring speech was
missed in trek history. I still wish for Kirk's inspiring speech to the
UFP tribunal that would have spelled out why he risked so much for Spock
in ST 3.
Re: "These Are The Voyages"; Having Just Watched It, A Considered Review [message #34665 ] So, 15 Mai 2005 04:58
Eric Nichols  
You forgot to mention Data's voice cameo. "Rain check".....seriously stupid
and out of character.
Re: "These Are The Voyages"; Having Just Watched It, A Considered Review [message #34668 ] So, 15 Mai 2005 05:31
Numan  
--

Numan
"Bo Raxo" <invasions_r_us [at] thepentagon.removethis.com> wrote in message
news:ctwhe.734$Lc1.10 [at] newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>
> And getting to see parts of the Enterprise D - what a HUGE treat! I feel
> like I should write a check to Paramount, I'd have paid to see that stuff.
> Scenes in Ten-Forward, a surprise (to me, anyway) voice cameo by Brent
> Spiner, watching Troi walk out of the Holodeck in to the Enterprise D with
> the NX-01 bridge frozen behind her...that was just utterly extremely
> thumping my couch and jumping like an 8 year old who just ate the entire
> package of sugar cookies can't believe they did it exciting.
>
> Though why she asked for the arch when she wanted the exit, I don't know.
>
> Which brings me to some little nits, production things. Seemed like all
> of
> the doors in the NextGen corridors looked like they weren't quite the
> right
> color, something about them was off. Maybe lit differently, I don't know,
> but something looked different. Frakes and Sirtis are visibly older than
> they were in "The Pegasus", but I can forgive that because it's another
> amazing gesture of respect to us irremediable fan geeks. Yay geeks!
>
> In the shuttle bay scene where Shran is holding his daughter, the two of
> them are very different colors. He's blue, and she's closer to green, but
> definitely not his shade. She looked blue on the planet's surface, just
> more greenish when in the shuttle bay.
>
> But Riker playing Chef...c'mon, that's some fun stuff! Killing off a
> regular, that's pretty bold. Should have happened in the first or second
> season, but that's hardly the biggest problems of those seasons.
>
> This is a show that started out not even having "Star Trek" in it's title.
> Now the final episode is something only someone who knows a big chunk of
> backstory can really get, with jumps around in time and tons of little
> inside jokes (a toast to the next generation, Troi mentioning that her
> appointment is with Reg). What a turnaround.
>
> That wasn't the producers saying "F.U." It was the producers saying,
> "We
> were wrong to not call it Trek from the beginning. We were wrong to
> ignore
> canon. The fans insisted we respect it as a part of Trek lore, and
> that's
> what we are doing. " It was a love letter to the fans of the franchise.
> It
> was everything I could have asked for, and more.
>
>
>
> Bo Raxo

Bo, I agree! I really like seeing parts of the Ent-D, especially
10-forward. After having just watched all of Voyager use that
stage as the messhall it was cool to be back to normal. ha ha ha

I just hope that if Riker and Troi are in a future outing they
are allowed to age.
Re: "These Are The Voyages"; Having Just Watched It, A Considered Review [message #34669 ] So, 15 Mai 2005 05:36
Bo Raxo  
"Jaxtraw" <jaxtraw [at] nospamnobigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:4286b4ae$0$12804$ed2619ec [at] ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
>
> This is sarcasm, right, Bo? I mean, you're not actually serious are you?

I am serious.

> This thing sucked like a Dyson.

You mean it had no bag to replace? Well, I guess opinions on Jolene Blalock
do vary.

>
> Things That Are The Most Wrong With TATV
> __________________________________
>
> 1. The basic concept was utterly flawed. The whole "framing" was
> unnecessary, and made the Ent cast into a sideshow.

Or as part of canon. I don't see the framing device as diminishing the
Enterprise cast. And really, TNG is a pretty huge part of Trek.

>The Ent-period story
> could have been told on its own- what advantage was there in having it
> commented on by Riker and Troi?

It made us 100% certain that the series occurred in the same universe.

>Worse, the frame belittled it- we had
> something supposedly of grand significance (the birth of the Federation,
the
> death of a major character) and these are belittled by being turned into
> therapy for Riker, making a trivial decision that nobody much cares about,
> under the direction of Troi (played by Sirtis in an off-character,
> irritating kind of a way). Once again, B&B use their superpower of sucking
> all the life and interest out of everything they touch.

I didn't see it as belittling as all. They had a B-story in the framing
device, and it tied in with the A story. They did that a million times in
TNG, and the B story didn't belittle the issues of the A story.

>
> 1a. The supposed link betwen the events on Enterprise and Riker's mundane
> decision was so forced I still can't really see what it was.
>

I do agree there. But the framing story was kept as minimal as possible.

> 1b. Also, the whole "Troi as therapist" angle was gradually, and wisely,
> sidelined as TNG progressed. Her wearisome platitudes and obvious advice
> never had much appeal and the whole ship's counsellor thing was possibly
> Roddenberry's second stupidest idea (the stupidest being Wesley of
course).
> Troi became a better character as her California self-help bullshit fell
by
> the wayside. Well done B&B for bringing it back! ~sigh~

They brought it back and made fun of it. Sirtis played it beautifully,
bemused and all. Showed how her talent as an actor is far beyond that of
any of the Enterpise cast.


>
> 2. I cried like a baby at Trip and T'Pol's mourning at the end of the
> previous episode. It was beautifully acted by them both, and a great bit
of
> script, a surprisingly heart rending little plot for something introduced
so
> rapidly. Now, fast forward, we find that nothing happened after that, and
> the hope for their relationship which was implied came to nothing. Just
> dropped. Nice way to go B&B.

It was six years later. We have no idea if they had some relationship or
not. They could have been together for a year or two or three for all we
know. It's a six year gap.


>
> 3. The behaviour of the characters was really, really fucking stupid.
Trip's
> self sacrifice was really, really fucking stupid.

Why? He was defending his ship. The intruders would no doubt kill Shran,
probably his kid, and perhaps several members of the Enterprise crew. Maybe
even try to destroy the ship.

>Shran's behaviour was
> really, really fucking stupid.

How so? He was aboard a larger, better armed, faster ship, should he be in
a hurry to get in his shuttle? The fake gem trick made sense, and having it
non-lethally booby trapped was a nice touch.

>
> 4. Framing it with Frakes and Sirtis playing their younger selves was
> really, really fucking stupid, because neither of them look like their
> younger selves any more. They both looked like sacks of spuds in those old
> TNG costumes. If they wanted to frame it with a stupid TNG link, have them
> on the Titan or something, their real ages. Or lock them in a gym for a
> month. Or replace them with CGI or something. It was utterly unconvincing.

I do agree there. The framing story should have been set after the events
of Nemesis, at the least. I think they wanted to force it in to the TNG era
so they could tie the Enterprises together, have the Picard link, etc.

>
> 5. Tucker died during a commercial break. Bye bye Tucker, don't slam the
> door on your way out.
>

That was lame. And then the scene with Riker/Chef *after* that. Sure, I
understood the time shift from the dialogue, but it was just lousy
storytelling and did nothing to advance the plot.

> 6. After a season of risible special effects, the culmination was the
final
> scene, which appeared to be taken from Duke Nukem 3D, or some other game
of
> that period. The seating area was about as convincing as part of a huge
hall
> as in any cheapo cheapo sitcom from the 1970s where a dozen people sit on
> benches in a tightly framed shot and pretend to be "at a hockey game".

Again I agree. But better than the tiny cheap soundstage set they used for
the Romulan Senate in Nemesis, and that was with a bigger budget.

I was especially annoyed that there was a shot coming back from commercial
break that was of the Enterprise D in space, should have been a really
beautiful image. But UPN ran this very large "America's Next Top Model"
promo over the entire bottom fifth of the screen some big red ribbon and
letters that completely ruined the image. The promo ended about when the
shot did. Gee, thanks UPN.

>
> 7. Hoshi fancied Trip? Thanks for introducing this riveting plot thread,
IN
> THE FINAL EPISODE.
>

She said she thought he was cute. That's all. Manm you are projecting
here.

> 8. Why was T'Pol twitching like that as Archer mounted the stairs to give
> his speech? St Vitus Dance? Squirming with embarrassment at the script she
> was enacting?
>

Because Jolene Blalock took the money she was supposed to use for acting
lessons and blew it all on implants and collagen.


> 9. We never heard Archer's speech. Why? Probably because B&B know they're
> lousy writers and had no hope of writing a decent one.
>

Because it's an action-adventure show. I don't want to hear some talky
speech that will sound hokey anyway. And it wouldn't advance the story. I
was glad I didn't have to hear the speech. You think it was going to be
soemthing truly inspiring, JFK at the Berlin Wall? This is a TV show,
ferrevinsakes.

>
>
> 11. Sirtis's characterisation of Troi was really odd, sort of middle aged
> airhead acting. This was a new kind of Troi, a *different* kind of Troi, a
> Troi you really wanted to slap after 30 seconds or so.
>

Didn't see that at all. She just looked older, that's all.

> 12. Most of this never happened. It's a holodeck fantasy, an extrapolation
> from a few basic facts. How the fuck would Starfleet records know how
Tucker
> and T'Pol felt about one another? They wouldn't. So, the ENT era stuff
isn't
> canon, these weren't the "real" characters we were watching, just
simulacra.
>

Sure, she could have written diaries. Which might have come out after her
death. Personal logs. Her katra may have communicated this stuff, or she
could have mind-melded with someone at some point in her life.


> 13. This was a TNG episode, not an Enterprise episode.

No wonder I liked it so much.

>
> 14. The gunfight with the irrelevant bad guys was so cheap, they just shot
> it on a soundstage with a few random bits of old set. Pretending the
> soundstage's real ceiling is a part of the set is as tacky as shit on a
warm
> pavement.

That scene was pointless and boring, I'll agree.

>
> 15. Where was Shran after Trip had died to protect him? Where was the
> funeral for Trip? Where was the grand send-off? Answer: they didn't have
> time for that because they need to show those essential RIKER CHOPPING
> VEGETABLES scenes.

Good storytelling is to stop when the interesting parts are done. I don't
need to see Shran leave, after some boring speech about Trip's sacrifice. I
don't need *another* Trip funeral scene, with *another* shot of his torpedo
tube. What do you want, Reed playing the bagpipes and T'Pol crying as she
says he was the most Vulcan human she ever met?


snip>
> Also, Shran's daughter is presumably a different shade because her
mother's
> Aenar, a truly amazing level of continuity for those fuckwits who wrote
it.
> Okay, that was the One Good Thing about the ep.

Er, then why is she the same blue as Shran when they are on the planet, but
more of a green when they in the Enterprise shuttle bay?

Look, can we at least agree it's one hell of a lot better than the series
finale of Voyager?


Bo Raxo
Re: "These Are The Voyages"; Having Just Watched It, A Considered Review [message #34671 ] So, 15 Mai 2005 05:43
Snake  
"Bo Raxo" <invasions_r_us [at] thepentagon.removethis.com> wrote in message
news:Eszhe.767$X92.92 [at] newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Jaxtraw" <jaxtraw [at] nospamnobigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:4286b4ae$0$12804$ed2619ec [at] ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
>> 8. Why was T'Pol twitching like that as Archer mounted the stairs to give
>> his speech? St Vitus Dance? Squirming with embarrassment at the script
>> she
>> was enacting?
>>
>
> Because Jolene Blalock took the money she was supposed to use for acting
> lessons and blew it all on implants and collagen.

Now that was the funniest, yet most perfect, observation I have yet seen
about ENT.
Re: "These Are The Voyages"; Having Just Watched It, A Considered Review [message #34673 ] So, 15 Mai 2005 05:47
Snake  
"Bo Raxo" <invasions_r_us [at] thepentagon.removethis.com> wrote in message
news:Eszhe.767$X92.92 [at] newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Look, can we at least agree it's one hell of a lot better than the series
> finale of Voyager?

Can we not mention that all Trek-encompassing canon-destroying abortion that
was Voyager's finale??

Nothing like bringing future tech back to the past and completely butchering
*every* story's possible timeline from then to eternity.

The ULTIMATE B&B screwup.
Re: "These Are The Voyages"; Having Just Watched It, A Considered Review [message #34675 ] So, 15 Mai 2005 05:57
Eric Nichols  
"Snake" <fluidstates_NO+SPAM [at] REMOVE-ME.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:FDzhe.1509$_f7.1043 [at] trndny01...
> "Bo Raxo" <invasions_r_us [at] thepentagon.removethis.com> wrote in message
> news:Eszhe.767$X92.92 [at] newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > Look, can we at least agree it's one hell of a lot better than the
series
> > finale of Voyager?
>
> Can we not mention that all Trek-encompassing canon-destroying abortion
that
> was Voyager's finale??
>
> Nothing like bringing future tech back to the past and completely
butchering
> *every* story's possible timeline from then to eternity.
>
> The ULTIMATE B&B screwup.


I actually went backl tongiht and watched Voyager's finale. While I hated it
the first time it aired, looking at it now, especially after These are the
Voyages, I was thinking to myself, hey, this ain't that bad
Re: "These Are The Voyages"; Having Just Watched It, A Considered Review [message #34681 ] So, 15 Mai 2005 06:37
Bo Raxo  
"Snake" <fluidstates_NO+SPAM [at] REMOVE-ME.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:FDzhe.1509$_f7.1043 [at] trndny01...
> "Bo Raxo" <invasions_r_us [at] thepentagon.removethis.com> wrote in message
> news:Eszhe.767$X92.92 [at] newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > Look, can we at least agree it's one hell of a lot better than the
series
> > finale of Voyager?
>
> Can we not mention that all Trek-encompassing canon-destroying abortion
that
> was Voyager's finale??

My apologies. I know how long it took to get that rancid mass of sewage out
of one's mind.

>
> Nothing like bringing future tech back to the past and completely
butchering
> *every* story's possible timeline from then to eternity.
>

And failing to resolve the question the entire series begged: how would the
characters fare when they returned to the Federation?

> The ULTIMATE B&B screwup.
>

Well, with Voyager, the whole series sucked. So it wasn't all that
surprising that it ended with something worse than the worst fanfic written
by a 12 year old.



Bo Raxo
Re: "These Are The Voyages"; Having Just Watched It, A ConsideredReview [message #34707 ] So, 15 Mai 2005 14:05
Ragnar  
Bravo! I wish I could have said all that.
Re: "These Are The Voyages"; Having Just Watched It, A Considered Review [message #34710 ] So, 15 Mai 2005 15:23
Jaxtraw  
"ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
news:118dds8mk01jeef [at] news.supernews.com...
> Jaxtraw wrote:
>
> > 9. We never heard Archer's speech. Why? Probably because B&B know
they're
> > lousy writers and had no hope of writing a decent one.
>
> Hoorah for most of what you said, but to be fair this isn't the first
> time the chance to have a major character utter a stirring speech was
> missed in trek history. I still wish for Kirk's inspiring speech to the
> UFP tribunal that would have spelled out why he risked so much for Spock
> in ST 3.

Agreed. But then, I think TVH is pretty awful anyway...

I like to imagine something along the lines of "Risk is our business" :)

Ian

--
____________________
A quality online comic strip for the discerning reader.
With shagging in it.
http://www.jaxtrawstudios.com
Re: "These Are The Voyages"; Having Just Watched It, A Considered Review [message #34723 ] So, 15 Mai 2005 17:33
Erwin  
Bo Raxo wrote:

>"Jaxtraw" <jaxtraw [at] nospamnobigfoot.com> wrote in message
>news:4286b4ae$0$12804$ed2619ec [at] ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
>
>
> [snip]
>
>>12. Most of this never happened. It's a holodeck fantasy, an extrapolation
>>from a few basic facts. How the fuck would Starfleet records know how
>>
>>
>Tucker
>
>
>>and T'Pol felt about one another? They wouldn't. So, the ENT era stuff
>>
>>
>isn't
>
>
>>canon, these weren't the "real" characters we were watching, just
>>
>>
>simulacra.
>
>
>
>Sure, she could have written diaries. Which might have come out after her
>death. Personal logs. Her katra may have communicated this stuff, or she
>could have mind-melded with someone at some point in her life.
>
>
>
And it could have been something else entirely. The holodeck is supposed
to interact with the user within a certain story frame, right? So main
events should happen - and are know to the database the holodeck uses -
as they did before. But little things such as the chef's talks with the
crew (I actually liked Riker better as chef than Whoopy as Guinan... he
would be worth the show (Cooking with Riker)) would probably be filled
in as interaction with the holodeck user, thus Riker's question to T'Pol
about thinking of Trip made T'Pol and Trip talk about that in Riker's
presence on the shuttle. Made sense to me, but it does have one problem:
if this is how the holodeck works, then what part of this episode's
Enterprise bits could be considered canon?

Erwin
Re: "These Are The Voyages"; Having Just Watched It, A Considered Review [message #34730 ] So, 15 Mai 2005 18:07
Jaxtraw  
"Erwin" <roosjen [at] quicknet.nl> wrote in message
news:ec567$42876be0$d47fe366$25487 [at] news.multikabel.nl...
> Bo Raxo wrote:
>
> >"Jaxtraw" <jaxtraw [at] nospamnobigfoot.com> wrote in message
> >news:4286b4ae$0$12804$ed2619ec [at] ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
> >
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> >>12. Most of this never happened. It's a holodeck fantasy, an
extrapolation
> >>from a few basic facts. How the fuck would Starfleet records know how
> >>
> >>
> >Tucker
> >
> >
> >>and T'Pol felt about one another? They wouldn't. So, the ENT era stuff
> >>
> >>
> >isn't
> >
> >
> >>canon, these weren't the "real" characters we were watching, just
> >>
> >>
> >simulacra.
> >
> >
> >
> >Sure, she could have written diaries. Which might have come out after
her
> >death. Personal logs. Her katra may have communicated this stuff, or
she
> >could have mind-melded with someone at some point in her life.
> >
> >
> >
> And it could have been something else entirely. The holodeck is supposed
> to interact with the user within a certain story frame, right? So main
> events should happen - and are know to the database the holodeck uses -
> as they did before. But little things such as the chef's talks with the
> crew (I actually liked Riker better as chef than Whoopy as Guinan... he
> would be worth the show (Cooking with Riker)) would probably be filled
> in as interaction with the holodeck user, thus Riker's question to T'Pol
> about thinking of Trip made T'Pol and Trip talk about that in Riker's
> presence on the shuttle. Made sense to me, but it does have one problem:
> if this is how the holodeck works, then what part of this episode's
> Enterprise bits could be considered canon?
>

Well, just the facts that would have been documented. Ent heading for home
for Archer to make a speech, the detour to assist Shran, the Foreheads Of
The Week getting on board, Trip's mode of killing them, the fact that Trip
died, the fact that Archer made the speech, and the text of that speech (and
the visuals, since they would be a matter of record). All the rest of it,
every personal conversation, Trip's behaviour when setting up his futile
suicide, the question of whether T'Pol and Tucker had a relationship,
whether Phlox likes cooking, and so on, are purely speculations by the
holodeck program, so can be completely ignored.

You can tenuously argue that none of it's canon, and the holodeck made up
everything bar Archer's appearance at Starfleet to make his speech; though
it would be unlikely for the holodeck to speculate a death that never
happened, it's possible if Riker's interference altered what would have
happened... Certainly, for instance, Archer's discussion with T'Pol and
Phlox pre-speech wouldn't be a matter of record, nor what the others said as
they sat in the seats in the hall and so on, nor Tucker's final words...
That's what makes it all so fecking futile.

As a further observation (whew, I can't believe how much I care about this
considering a month ago I was arguing that Enterprise should be wholly wiped
from history like in Stalin's USSR), at one point Riker has to specifically
ask the holodeck to include some crew on the "NX-01". Neglecting to do that
again would explain the absence of anybody else during Trip and Archer's
interaction with the FOTWs- so Trip's "death" can be explained as a holodeck
extrapolation of what *would* have happened had Trip and Archer been
*alone*, which in real life they *wouldn't* have been- so Trip never died in
reality at all.

Yep, that's a good enough get-out for me. Problem solved. Trip never died.
Trip and T'Pol got married and had a gaggle of offspring. That'll suit me
fine :oD

Ian

--
____________________
A quality online comic strip for the discerning reader.
With shagging in it.
http://www.jaxtrawstudios.com
Re: "These Are The Voyages"; Having Just Watched It, A Considered Review [message #34755 ] So, 15 Mai 2005 20:57
Bo Raxo  
"Jaxtraw" <jaxtraw [at] nospamnobigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:428772e7$0$39097$ed2e19e4 [at] ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
> "Erwin" <roosjen [at] quicknet.nl> wrote in message
> news:ec567$42876be0$d47fe366$25487 [at] news.multikabel.nl...
> > Bo Raxo wrote:
> >
> > >"Jaxtraw" <jaxtraw [at] nospamnobigfoot.com> wrote in message
> > >news:4286b4ae$0$12804$ed2619ec [at] ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
> > >
> > >
> > > [snip]
> > >
> > >>12. Most of this never happened. It's a holodeck fantasy, an
> extrapolation
> > >>from a few basic facts. How the fuck would Starfleet records know how
> > >>
> > >>
> > >Tucker
> > >>and T'Pol felt about one another? They wouldn't. So, the ENT era stuff
> > >isn't
> > >>canon, these weren't the "real" characters we were watching, just
> > >simulacra.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Sure, she could have written diaries. Which might have come out after
> her
> > >death. Personal logs. Her katra may have communicated this stuff, or
> she
> > >could have mind-melded with someone at some point in her life.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > And it could have been something else entirely. The holodeck is supposed
> > to interact with the user within a certain story frame, right? So main
> > events should happen - and are know to the database the holodeck uses -
> > as they did before. But little things such as the chef's talks with the
> > crew (I actually liked Riker better as chef than Whoopy as Guinan... he
> > would be worth the show (Cooking with Riker)) would probably be filled
> > in as interaction with the holodeck user, thus Riker's question to T'Pol
> > about thinking of Trip made T'Pol and Trip talk about that in Riker's
> > presence on the shuttle. Made sense to me, but it does have one problem:
> > if this is how the holodeck works, then what part of this episode's
> > Enterprise bits could be considered canon?
> >



The Chef gag made me think they should have used DS9 as the framing story.
Sisko would of *course* try the role of chef, he wouldn't need someone to
suggest it to him. Replace the Troi role with Dax, or if she's not
available Kira or Jake.





>
> Well, just the facts that would have been documented. Ent heading for home
> for Archer to make a speech, the detour to assist Shran, the Foreheads Of
> The Week getting on board, Trip's mode of killing them, the fact that Trip
> died, the fact that Archer made the speech, and the text of that speech
(and
> the visuals, since they would be a matter of record). All the rest of it,
> every personal conversation, Trip's behaviour when setting up his futile
> suicide, the question of whether T'Pol and Tucker had a relationship,
> whether Phlox likes cooking, and so on, are purely speculations by the
> holodeck program, so can be completely ignored.


You ignore the fact that we have seen people in Trek keep personal logs.
Many people today keep diaries or journals. And it's likely these
individuals would have been interviewed in their later years. It's like
watching "Band of Brothers", say: those conversations may have been related
by the people who had them.

Their ship ended up in a museum. You don't think their diaries wouldn't be
used 200 years later to understand the events of the time? Historians do
that today all the time.


Bo Raxo
Vorheriges Thema:I love it when Kirk says stuff like this
Nächstes Thema:Disappointed
Gehe zu:
  


aktuelle Zeit: Sa Mai 26 12:00:26 CEST 2012

Insgesamt benötigte Zeit, um die Seite zu erzeugen: 0,06510 Sekunden
.:: Startseite - Hinweise - Impressum ::.

Powered