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Science Fiction » alt.startrek » metaphor for racism
metaphor for racism [message #28530] So, 08 Mai 2005 08:19
FranticInFresno  
Back in the days of TOS, the Peter Weller segment would have been a metaphor
for racism. Intolerance for people different from "US".

But then the story tosses in an interracial relationship to show how
progressive humanity has become. The antithesis of the ongoing story line.
Just about the time I'm becoming comfortable with said relationship, it
proves to be a disaster, demonstrating that trusting people different from
"US" can be a bad thing. Clouding any coherent moral message that might
have been conveyed. (At least the cliché of black man as villain was
thankfully avoided).

The mixed messages in this script are confusing. The writing staff should
pick a POV and stick with it. Let's hope the final episode is less muddled.




----------------------------
Considering that Kirk/Uhura had the first interracial kiss on television,
this subtext was initially (IMHO) a welcome reminder of how far TV in
general has come.
Re: metaphor for racism [message #28531 ] So, 08 Mai 2005 08:36
rgorman  
On Sun, 08 May 2005 06:19:52 GMT, "FranticInFresno"
<MostWanted [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

>Back in the days of TOS, the Peter Weller segment would have been a metaphor
>for racism. Intolerance for people different from "US".
>
>But then the story tosses in an interracial relationship to show how
>progressive humanity has become. The antithesis of the ongoing story line.
>Just about the time I'm becoming comfortable with said relationship,

Why would you be in the least uncomfortable with said relationship,
apart of course from it occuring within the sphere of whatsisname's
anti-charisma field?

it
>proves to be a disaster, demonstrating that trusting people different from
>"US" can be a bad thing.

How was she different from us?
Re: metaphor for racism [message #28558 ] So, 08 Mai 2005 20:20
greg brown  
"FranticInFresno" <MostWanted [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ccife.11716$5o2.1027 [at] newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>
> But then the story tosses in an interracial relationship to show how
> progressive humanity has become. The antithesis of the ongoing story
> line. Just about the time I'm becoming comfortable with said relationship,
> it proves to be a disaster, demonstrating that trusting people different
> from "US" can be a bad thing. Clouding any coherent moral message that
> might have been conveyed. (At least the cliché of black man as villain
> was thankfully avoided).
>

If I'm understanding you correctly, I thought Tucker's lack of trust in the
T'Pol/pregnancy thing was not a Vulcan/Human thing, but a man/woman thing.
Trip sees what appears to be proof that he and T'Pol have a child that he
knows nothing about. His first thought had to be, 'was she pregnant without
my knowledge?'

She tells him she was not pregnant and he says he believes her. Later,
apparently through their bond, she picks up on his doubts again. Well I'd
say he's 80% sure shes telling the truth, but she is picking up on the other
20% of lingering doubt that will exist until the rest of the story unfolds
for Trip.

Greg
Re: metaphor for racism [message #28559 ] So, 08 Mai 2005 20:25
Notifier Deamon  
Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)
Re: metaphor for racism [message #28567 ] Mo, 09 Mai 2005 04:37
dwyer  
FranticInFresno wrote:
> Back in the days of TOS, the Peter Weller segment would have been a
metaphor
> for racism. Intolerance for people different from "US".
>
> But then the story tosses in an interracial relationship to show how
> progressive humanity has become. The antithesis of the ongoing story
line.
> Just about the time I'm becoming comfortable with said relationship,
it
> proves to be a disaster, demonstrating that trusting people different
from
> "US" can be a bad thing. Clouding any coherent moral message that
might
> have been conveyed. (At least the clich=E9 of black man as villain
was
> thankfully avoided).

Funny, because the guy that shot T'Pol and the guy who pointed out Trip
looked black to me.

Now I haven't read ANY spoilers...so I could be very wrong with
this...but, going with the relationship. I am betting that the
reporter IS innocent...and Mayweather is gonna fall into defending her.
Be an outcast among the crew and eventually be proven right. That the
circumstancial evidence with Terra Prime, is going to cloud the minds
of the Enterprise crew. (Except Travis of course). So in effect
Archer and Company will be blinded by this Terra Prime information
against the reporter.


> The mixed messages in this script are confusing. The writing staff
should
> pick a POV and stick with it. Let's hope the final episode is less
muddled.

I think they have...from a certain POV. It seems to me your not
looking at the big picture. Your seeing half a story. Rightfully so,
since only half has been seen. But so far, the running theme is
racism...no one EVER said she was guilty of the accusation. NTM, it
puts Archer and Company in the position of doing the same thing they
are trying to stop.


Mr. Killfile
"We're not just doing this for money...we're doing it for a shit-load
of money!" -- Bill Pullman ("Spaceballs")
---
Re: metaphor for racism [message #28571 ] Mo, 09 Mai 2005 06:26
Hunter  
FranticInFresno wrote:
> Back in the days of TOS, the Peter Weller segment would have been a
metaphor
> for racism. Intolerance for people different from "US".
>
> But then the story tosses in an interracial relationship to show how
> progressive humanity has become. The antithesis of the ongoing story
line.
> Just about the time I'm becoming comfortable with said relationship,
it
> proves to be a disaster, demonstrating that trusting people different
from
> "US" can be a bad thing. Clouding any coherent moral message that
might
> have been conveyed. (At least the clich=E9 of black man as villain
was
> thankfully avoided).
>
> The mixed messages in this script are confusing. The writing staff
should
> pick a POV and stick with it. Let's hope the final episode is less
muddled.
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------
> Considering that Kirk/Uhura had the first interracial kiss on
television,
> this subtext was initially (IMHO) a welcome reminder of how far TV in

> general has come.
----
I don't see a mixed message there. It is clear that by the mid 22nd
racism amongst humans is dead to the point of it not being the
slightest issue. The problem with Merriwether (sp?) and his reporter
girl friend was not race but trust and priorities, just like with a
couple of the same "race". What was the subtext is that now that racism
amongst humans has been conquered, that lesson of tolerance must be
relearned and extened to aliens, and the view of half Vulcan, half
Terran baby as an abomination is just as primative as that of the view
of a half white half black one was in 19th century America or a half
gentile half jewish one was in mid 20th century Nazi Germany.

the problem between Merriwether and his reporter girl friend was that
she was spy, and that racism is still with us in a different form,
against aliens.

---->Hunter
Re: metaphor for racism [message #28573 ] Mo, 09 Mai 2005 07:54
rgorman  
On 8 May 2005 19:37:58 -0700, "Mr. Killfile" <dwyer [at] echoes.net> wrote:


>I think they have...from a certain POV. It seems to me your not
>looking at the big picture. Your seeing half a story. Rightfully so,
>since only half has been seen. But so far, the running theme is
>racism...no one EVER said she was guilty of the accusation. NTM, it
>puts Archer and Company in the position of doing the same thing they
>are trying to stop.

Oh bullshit. If Archer and Company are misled by the evidence into
suspecting someone innocent, that isn't even remotely in any way
similar to taking the solar system hostage to drive out foreigners.
Re: metaphor for racism [message #28574 ] Mo, 09 Mai 2005 08:23
Hunter  
Keeper of the Purple Twilight wrote:
> In article <XLsfe.9101$GQ5.459 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
greg
> brown <noway [at] way.com> wrote:
>
> > If I'm understanding you correctly, I thought Tucker's lack of
trust in the
> > T'Pol/pregnancy thing was not a Vulcan/Human thing, but a man/woman
thing.
>
> Exactly. Trip's problem with the whole thing is NOT that T'Pol is
> Vulcan. It's simply that he thinks she got pregnant and didn't tell
> him. It's solely an issue of trust - regardless of race or species or
> whatever.
>
> And, IMHO, Trip's reaction is entirely understandable.
----
It is and just as long as he gave her a chance to explain, he was right
to be skeptical. But now he should believe her now if he hasn't done so
already.

Also, the Meriwether/ Reporter relationship was about trust as well,
not race. By the mid 22nd century that is no longer an issue, as hard
for us stuck here with the early 21st century mind set to accept. It
was about being honest with each other and commitment before she was
found out to be an EF spy.


--->Hunter
Re: metaphor for racism [message #31783 ] Mo, 09 Mai 2005 13:32
lupin3  
> I don't see a mixed message there. It is clear that by the mid 22nd
> racism amongst humans is dead to the point of it not being the
> slightest issue. The problem with Merriwether (sp?) and his reporter
> girl friend was not race but trust and priorities, just like with a
> couple of the same "race". What was the subtext is that now that
racism
> amongst humans has been conquered, that lesson of tolerance must be
> relearned and extened to aliens, and the view of half Vulcan, half
> Terran baby as an abomination is just as primative as that of the
view
> of a half white half black one was in 19th century America or a half
> gentile half jewish one was in mid 20th century Nazi Germany.
>
> the problem between Merriwether and his reporter girl friend was that
> she was spy, and that racism is still with us in a different form,
> against aliens.


Yeah, you know.. just like in that episode of Alien Nation! The one
with the Human / Whatever hybrid.
Re: metaphor for racism [message #31832 ] Di, 10 Mai 2005 00:57
Joe62  
On Sun, 08 May 2005 06:19:52 GMT, "FranticInFresno"
<MostWanted [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

>Back in the days of TOS, the Peter Weller segment would have been a metaphor
>for racism. Intolerance for people different from "US".
>...
>The mixed messages in this script are confusing.

I disagree - it speaks directly to our times. The obvious analogy is
attitudes towards homosexuals. Most people have moved beyond racism,
recognized how wrong it is ... while actively engaging in IDENTICAL
prejudices against other groups. Ths point is that bigots don't change
.... but the targets of their hatred often do. This is why it's called
Demons (i.e., as in the excorsicing of). It's an ugly and deep part of
human nature that we'd need to get over to work with other species.
Re: metaphor for racism [message #31834 ] Di, 10 Mai 2005 03:26
dwyer  
David Johnston wrote:
> On 8 May 2005 19:37:58 -0700, "Mr. Killfile" <dwyer [at] echoes.net>
wrote:
>
>
> >I think they have...from a certain POV. It seems to me your not
> >looking at the big picture. Your seeing half a story. Rightfully
so,
> >since only half has been seen. But so far, the running theme is
> >racism...no one EVER said she was guilty of the accusation. NTM, it
> >puts Archer and Company in the position of doing the same thing they
> >are trying to stop.
>
> Oh bullshit. If Archer and Company are misled by the evidence into
> suspecting someone innocent, that isn't even remotely in any way
> similar to taking the solar system hostage to drive out foreigners.

It's different levels yes, I NEVER said they had equal value. But when
boiled down it is along the same lines. Racism is Racism...no matter
the level at which it is brought.


Mr. Killfile
"We're not just doing this for money...we're doing it for a shit-load
of money!" -- Bill Pullman ("Spaceballs")
---
Re: metaphor for racism [message #31839 ] Di, 10 Mai 2005 04:47
rgorman  
On 9 May 2005 18:26:07 -0700, "Mr. Killfile" <dwyer [at] echoes.net> wrote:

>
>David Johnston wrote:
>> On 8 May 2005 19:37:58 -0700, "Mr. Killfile" <dwyer [at] echoes.net>
>wrote:
>>
>>
>> >I think they have...from a certain POV. It seems to me your not
>> >looking at the big picture. Your seeing half a story. Rightfully
>so,
>> >since only half has been seen. But so far, the running theme is
>> >racism...no one EVER said she was guilty of the accusation. NTM, it
>> >puts Archer and Company in the position of doing the same thing they
>> >are trying to stop.
>>
>> Oh bullshit. If Archer and Company are misled by the evidence into
>> suspecting someone innocent, that isn't even remotely in any way
>> similar to taking the solar system hostage to drive out foreigners.
>
>It's different levels yes,

No, it isn't. It's something totally different in kind.

I NEVER said they had equal value. But when
>boiled down it is along the same lines. Racism is Racism...no matter
>the level at which it is brought.

There is no element of racism whatsoever in suspecting someone of
espionage when the evidence is that they've been eavesdropping on high
level diplomatic talks.
Re: metaphor for racism [message #31840 ] Di, 10 Mai 2005 05:03
estasiak  
> FranticInFresno wrote
>
> Back in the days of TOS, the Peter Weller segment would
> have been a metaphor for racism. Intolerance for people
> different from "US".

IMO the metaphor in the latest "Enterprise" episode wasn't
about racism as much as immigration, with Peter Weller's
bad guy character even ranting about the unknown number
of aliens on Earth.

If the Mayweather/Reporter Chick relationship has anything
to do with the story from a racial sense, it's that the
differences between humans is no longer an issue, being
replaced by the greater question of human/non-human
interactions.

By the way, I think human/alien issue would still be a big
deal on Earth at that time, as the majority of humans would
have never come in direct contact with any alien species.
Re: metaphor for racism [message #32390 ] Di, 10 Mai 2005 15:08
Jaxtraw  
"Ed Stasiak" <estasiak [at] att.net> wrote in message
news:1115694221.538751.188640 [at] z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > FranticInFresno wrote
> >
> > Back in the days of TOS, the Peter Weller segment would
> > have been a metaphor for racism. Intolerance for people
> > different from "US".
>
> IMO the metaphor in the latest "Enterprise" episode wasn't
> about racism as much as immigration, with Peter Weller's
> bad guy character even ranting about the unknown number
> of aliens on Earth.
>
> If the Mayweather/Reporter Chick relationship has anything
> to do with the story from a racial sense, it's that the
> differences between humans is no longer an issue, being
> replaced by the greater question of human/non-human
> interactions.
>
> By the way, I think human/alien issue would still be a big
> deal on Earth at that time, as the majority of humans would
> have never come in direct contact with any alien species.
>

Especially bearing in mind that the convention in Trek is for every alien
humanoid species to embody a narrow emotional range that makes them awkward.
Vulcans are cold and unemotional, Andorians arrogant, Tellarites rude,
Klingons aggressive and violent...

(I cheered for Archer when he told the Tellarite and Andorian he was sick to
death of conforming to *their* standards and it was time they made an effort
to accomodate *his*. I've been waiting for somebody to say that on Trek for
soooo long... :)

Ian

--
____________________
A quality online comic strip for the discerning reader.
With shagging in it.
http://www.jaxtrawstudios.com
Re: metaphor for racism [message #32412 ] Mi, 11 Mai 2005 01:05
dwyer  
David Johnston wrote:
> On 9 May 2005 18:26:07 -0700, "Mr. Killfile" <dwyer [at] echoes.net>
wrote:
>
> >
> >David Johnston wrote:
> >> On 8 May 2005 19:37:58 -0700, "Mr. Killfile" <dwyer [at] echoes.net>
> >wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> >I think they have...from a certain POV. It seems to me your not
> >> >looking at the big picture. Your seeing half a story.
Rightfully
> >so,
> >> >since only half has been seen. But so far, the running theme is
> >> >racism...no one EVER said she was guilty of the accusation. NTM,
it
> >> >puts Archer and Company in the position of doing the same thing
they
> >> >are trying to stop.
> >>
> >> Oh bullshit. If Archer and Company are misled by the evidence
into
> >> suspecting someone innocent, that isn't even remotely in any way
> >> similar to taking the solar system hostage to drive out
foreigners.
> >
> >It's different levels yes,
>
> No, it isn't. It's something totally different in kind.


I am not getting into this argument with you. I think it is, you think
it isn't. Deal with it.


Mr. Killfile
"We're not just doing this for money...we're doing it for a shit-load
of money!" -- Bill Pullman ("Spaceballs")
---
Re: metaphor for racism [message #32415 ] Mi, 11 Mai 2005 01:39
rgorman  
On 10 May 2005 16:05:50 -0700, "Mr. Killfile" <dwyer [at] echoes.net>
wrote:

>> >> Oh bullshit. If Archer and Company are misled by the evidence
>into
>> >> suspecting someone innocent, that isn't even remotely in any way
>> >> similar to taking the solar system hostage to drive out
>foreigners.
>> >
>> >It's different levels yes,
>>
>> No, it isn't. It's something totally different in kind.
>
>
>I am not getting into this argument with you. I think it is, you think
>it isn't. Deal with it.
>

But how ARE they supposed to be even a little bit alike? Archer isn't
even being unfair in suspecting a spy of being a spy.
Re: metaphor for racism [message #32431 ] Mi, 11 Mai 2005 09:49
aether  
There's long been too much of a Marxist Jewish influence in Star Trek.
(see: McCarthy and the Jewish predilection for radical anti-White
activity) The interracial 'relationship' in this last episode is merely
another example. Why set Travis Mayweather up with an attractive White
female? Simple answer: Jews (and it excites Sambo who directed the
episode)

Hollywood is completely Jewish dominated, and it's been this way from
the beginning. (http://www.eonline.com/Features/Specials/Jews/)

They've created this artificial environment we experience in America
today. It's completely contrived; a construct from Jewish minds, molded
and indoctrinated into the mindset of non-Jews or 'Goyim'. (Jewish term
for non-Jews) Again, for the reality impaired: what made interracial
'relationships largely accepted by the mainstream? (at least on the
surface) Jewish control over Hollywood. It's elementary.

Please note, however, that Jews themselves never mix with Blacks or any
other race except, on occasion, those vilified Aryan Goyim. (see: Ben
Stiller and Bill Maher, among many others)

"Nobody knows nothing." -- William Goldman

I'd have to concur with that assessment, William.
Re: metaphor for racism [message #32433 ] Mi, 11 Mai 2005 09:56
aether  
It's amazing just how naive Whites are, as a group. Do they not realize
that assimilation with other races means their end? Jews understand
this quite well, which is why Israel has practically banned marriages
between Jews and non-Jews. The purpose of such laws is survival.

The following is an example of discriminatory laws that rightly exist
to ensure the survival of a people:


"As an example of the discrimination, the ACR cited the case of an
Israeli Jewish woman who married a non-Israeli, non-Jew. When she
sought to arrange for him to receive residential status, she was told
she was married to a non-Jew and that she would have to prove that her
marriage is authentic and that this would take a long time to
ascertain.

The letter from the authority read:

"According to your letter, you have been married to a non-Jew. This is
a classic example of a case in which the marriage needs to be checked
out over a long period of time to see that it is not fictional. It is
regrettable that you did not marry a citizen of Israel. But I never the
less wish you all the best and success in your marriage."

According to the report, when issuing birth certificates to babies, the
Israeli interior ministry discriminates when the father is not Jewish.

In such cases the ministry issues a document declaring that the Jewish
woman is the mother of the child and gives the baby an ID number.
However, the father's name does not appear on the document, even if he
declares he is the father.

In the case of the marriage of an Israeli man and a non-Israeli,
non-Jewish woman, the ministry does not issue any document and the baby
is not a citizen of Israel and his parents are not officially his
parents."

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/78E9FD35-D047-47FC-A0 D1-A12D7A6E8BD2.htm
Re: metaphor for racism [message #32434 ] Mi, 11 Mai 2005 10:05
dishtv  
aether wrote:
> It's amazing just how naive Whites are, as a group. Do they not realize
> that assimilation with other races means their end? Jews understand
> this quite well, which is why Israel has practically banned marriages
> between Jews and non-Jews. The purpose of such laws is survival.


Take this anti-israeli shit to another newsgroup where they give a shit.



-Rick
Re: metaphor for racism [message #33034 ] Mi, 11 Mai 2005 17:34
Notifier Deamon  
Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)
Re: metaphor for racism [message #33060 ] Do, 12 Mai 2005 01:12
George Peatty  
On 11 May 2005 00:49:04 -0700, "aether" <vercingetorix [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

>There's long been too much of a Marxist Jewish influence in Star Trek.

As Fox Mulder once noted, thank you on behalf of the international Jewish
conspiracy .. Vercingetorix, indeed. You really are a barbarian ..
Re: metaphor for racism [message #33078 ] Do, 12 Mai 2005 03:33
aether  
It's precisely as I expected. Trite, emotive responses.
Re: metaphor for racism [message #33794 ] Do, 12 Mai 2005 16:56
Michel Boucher  
George Peatty <pttyg47-1230 [at] copper.net> wrote in
news:c74581l91p08t7qh7um3shmlasm0t9t9gh [at] 4ax.com:

> On 11 May 2005 00:49:04 -0700, "aether"
> <vercingetorix [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>There's long been too much of a Marxist Jewish influence in Star
>>Trek.
>
> As Fox Mulder once noted, thank you on behalf of the international
> Jewish conspiracy .. Vercingetorix, indeed. You really are a
> barbarian ..

And on behalf of the International Marxist Conspiracy as well :-)

--

[...] remember when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down 'ere on Earth!

Monty Python's Universe Song
Vorheriges Thema:Re: Curious - Jesus
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