Questions about LOTR

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Fantasy » alt.fan.tolkien » Questions about LOTR

Questions about LOTR [message #25082]

Sa, 30 April 2005 23:00

Samsonknight

Hi,

I am a fan of the movies (all 3). It has got me really interested in reading
the books, but I just haven't found the time to read the books due to other
commitments.

Anyway, I have a couple of questions that I need answering:

1. Why do the elfs and dawrfs hate each other? In the movie Gimli and
Legolas hate each other because one is an elf and the other is a Dawrf but
it is not explained why this is the case.

2.What is a balrog? The creature in the mines of Moria. Again the movie
didn't explain how it it was created, or its purpose. All we are told that
it is some kind of demon.

Thank you very much for your time :)

Re: Questions about LOTR [message #25083 ]

So, 01 Mai 2005 01:16

Christopher Kreuzer

Samsonknight <samsonknight2k [at] btinternet.com> wrote:

> I am a fan of the movies (all 3). It has got me really interested in
> reading the books, but I just haven't found the time to read the
> books due to other commitments.

Don't take this the wrong way, but you should try and find the time. In
my opinion, the books are much better than the films, if you like that
sort of book. Whether "those who like that sort of film" are also "those
who like that sort of book" is an open question, but the only way for
you to find out for yourself is by reading the books.

> Anyway, I have a couple of questions that I need answering:
>
> 1. Why do the elfs and dawrfs hate each other? In the movie Gimli and
> Legolas hate each other because one is an elf and the other is a
> Dawrf but it is not explained why this is the case.

That should be 'dwarf' not 'dawrf'.

> 2.What is a balrog? The creature in the mines of Moria. Again the
> movie didn't explain how it it was created, or its purpose. All we
> are told that it is some kind of demon.

The important question is whether it has wings.

Seriously, the answers are in the books. Read 'The Hobbit' and 'The
Silmarillion' for the answers to question 1.

[Two reasons: a recent grievance involving Legolas's father and Gimli's
father; and several more ancient grievances between Elves and Dwarves in
general, one concerning jewels, and one concerning the Balrog!]

Read 'The Silmarillion' for the answers to question 2.

[The origin, power and purpose of the Balrogs is explained in that book.
Suffice it to say that the Balrog is a type of powerful being of the
same kind as others in the story of 'The Lord of the Rings' - though I
don't want to give too much away.]

First though, read 'The Lord of the Rings' for a good story.

Christopher

--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard

Re: Questions about LOTR [message #25086 ]

So, 01 Mai 2005 03:57

NobodyMan

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:00:55 +0000 (UTC), "Samsonknight"
<samsonknight2k [at] btinternet.com> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I am a fan of the movies (all 3). It has got me really interested in reading
>the books, but I just haven't found the time to read the books due to other
>commitments.
>
>Anyway, I have a couple of questions that I need answering:
>
>1. Why do the elfs and dawrfs hate each other? In the movie Gimli and
>Legolas hate each other because one is an elf and the other is a Dawrf but
>it is not explained why this is the case.

You'll get a "read the books" reply here, but the LOTR really doesn't
get too much into this. For the true back story, you need to go far
beyond the LOTR. The Silmarillion covers the antipathy felt between
the two races much better. Suffice it to say they have differing
motives and methods at obtaining what they want. Regardless, a good
friendship did exist between Durin's folk in Khazad-Dum and the elves
in Eregion, at least until Sauron brought war to Eregion and ran
everybody out.

>2.What is a balrog? The creature in the mines of Moria. Again the movie
>didn't explain how it it was created, or its purpose. All we are told that
>it is some kind of demon.
>
>Thank you very much for your time :)

For the explanation of Balrogs, you MUST read The Silmarillion. It's
really difficult to describe a Balrog here. It's very well covered in
The Silmarillion.

Re: Questions about LOTR [message #25089 ]

So, 01 Mai 2005 06:50

the softrat

Re: Questions about LOTR [message #25096 ]

So, 01 Mai 2005 20:05

Samsonknight

Thank you for your replies.

Yep, I was expecting the "read the book" replies here. So just for the
record, I want to read the books, but due to other commitments -
examinations this month, and next month I have exactly that - "no time". The
pressure is on for getting into St Andrews/Edinburgh University, which is
very important for the long term.

But after my examinations , I shall pick up 'The Silmarillion'.

Thank you for your time.

Re: Questions about LOTR [message #25104 ]

Mo, 02 Mai 2005 00:43

Dan Leach

> Hi,
>
> I am a fan of the movies (all 3). It has got me really interested in
> reading the books, but I just haven't found the time to read the books due
> to other commitments.
>
> Anyway, I have a couple of questions that I need answering:
>
> 1. Why do the elfs and dawrfs hate each other? In the movie Gimli and
> Legolas hate each other because one is an elf and the other is a Dawrf but
> it is not explained why this is the case.

Well, its never explained well in either LOTR or the Hobbit. But basically
there had been both friendship and animosity between the dwarves and the
elves for thousands of years, lots of incidents, some betreal of the elves
by dwarves. The dwarves once (for complicated reasons) killed Elu Thingol,
the Lord of Beleriand (middle earth before that part of it was destroyed and
made into the shape it was in LOTR).
Not all elves hated dwarves, not all dwarves hated elves, but legolas' dad
did lock gimli's dad up in his palace in the Hobbit, which goes some way to
explain gimli and legolas' feelings.

> 2.What is a balrog? The creature in the mines of Moria. Again the movie
> didn't explain how it it was created, or its purpose. All we are told that
> it is some kind of demon.

Well, balrogs are actualy of the same race of beings as Gandalf and Saruman
and Sauron, they are Maia, angelic spirits sent into the world at the
begining to shape it and prepare it for the begining of the firstborn and
the aftercomers (elves and men). The Maia had more powerful counterparts
called valar, the rulers of the world (under Eru - god) one of these
rebelled and became the dark lord and corrupted many of the maia to his
cause (Sauron was his chief leutenant). Balrogs seem to be powerful but
rather primitive Maia used as great fighters and battlefield battering rams
to tear apart front lines of oncoming battalions.
One of of these evidently survived the destruction of Beleriand and hid in
Moria, only to be woken up many thousands of years later by the dwarves who
followed a seam of Mithril too far deep and too close to the root of the
mountain Caradhras (?) and awoke it.

> Thank you very much for your time :)

no worries :)

Re: Questions about LOTR [message #27074 ]

Mo, 02 Mai 2005 16:04

jojo

> But after my examinations , I shall pick up 'The Silmarillion'.
>
> Thank you for your time.

Might I suggest you start with the hobbit, proceed to LOTR then back to Sil?

jojo

Re: Questions about LOTR [message #27847 ]

Mi, 04 Mai 2005 10:02

aelfwina

"Samsonknight" <samsonknight2k [at] btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:d535q2$95m$1 [at] nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> Thank you for your replies.
>
> Yep, I was expecting the "read the book" replies here. So just for the
> record, I want to read the books, but due to other commitments -
> examinations this month, and next month I have exactly that - "no time".
> The pressure is on for getting into St Andrews/Edinburgh University, which
> is very important for the long term.
>
> But after my examinations , I shall pick up 'The Silmarillion'.
>
> Thank you for your time.

Lucky you, to get to read them for the first time! A magical and life
changing experience! But I think you ought to start with The Hobbit, and
LotR before The Silmarillion, as you may find that very frustrating on its
own. Also the appendices to LotR are a good lead in to The Silmarillion.
Barbara

>
>

Re: Questions about LOTR [message #30720 ]

Mi, 04 Mai 2005 19:55

Ruud Bergs

"aelfwina" <aelfwina [at] cableone.net> schreef in bericht
news:117fs0rp1ufria7 [at] corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Samsonknight" <samsonknight2k [at] btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:d535q2$95m$1 [at] nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>> Thank you for your replies.
>>
>> Yep, I was expecting the "read the book" replies here. So just for the
>> record, I want to read the books, but due to other commitments -
>> examinations this month, and next month I have exactly that - "no time".
>> The pressure is on for getting into St Andrews/Edinburgh University,
>> which is very important for the long term.
>>
>> But after my examinations , I shall pick up 'The Silmarillion'.
>>
>> Thank you for your time.
>
> Lucky you, to get to read them for the first time! A magical and life
> changing experience! But I think you ought to start with The Hobbit, and
> LotR before The Silmarillion, as you may find that very frustrating on its
> own. Also the appendices to LotR are a good lead in to The Silmarillion.
> Barbara
>
>>
>>
>
>

Hi,

Isn't reading any of the Tolkien novels a life-changing experience, even if
it's the 32nd time?

Grtz Ruud

Re: Questions about LOTR [message #32831 ]

Mi, 11 Mai 2005 04:26

Frank Aielo

Hi.

In answer to your first question, Dwarfs and Elves of late Third Age are
distrustful of each other. This distrust goes all the way back to the time
of Beren and Luthien. At that time, Hurin brought the necklace of the
dwarves to king Thingol of Doriath, after finding it in the remains of
Finrod's kingdom of Nargothrond.

Thingol asked the dwarves to mount the Silmaril that Beren recovered from
Morgoth's ( Sauron's master ) crown onto the necklace that the dwarves had
made for Luthien. The dwarves were enamoured of the Silmaril, and forced
Thingol to give it up freely but Thingol refused. The dwarves murdered him
and fled back to Belegost. Beren avenged Thingol's death by recovering the
Silmaril, but at the cost of much deaths of fleeing dwarves.

In the time of the War of the Ring, Legolas a Sylvan elf of king Thranduil
of Greenwood The Great,was a distant descended of Thingol's Grey elves of
the First and Second Ages. From then on, no further interactions took place
between Gimli's dwarves of the Misty Mountains and the elves of Mirkwood.
Talk about holding a grudge!

As for the Balrog of Moria, it is a Maiar spirit as old as Arda itself. In
the beginning of the world, many creatures were created, some good; others
were converted to evil by Morgoth, Sauron's master. These creatures were of
the family of Valaraukar. They were semi-immortal and very powerful. Gandalf
was also a Maiar by nature, however, due to the constraints placed upon him
by the Valar of Valinor, his stature and demeanour were of a peaceful
nature, since that was his mission in Middle earth. He was prohibited from
using force against force to defeat Sauron.

The Balrog of Moria was also called Durin's bane by Gimli and the dwarves of
the Misty Mountains at the time of the War of the Ring. This same balrog
destroyed the ancient dwarf civilizations that had created the underground
kingdoms in Moria in older days. It had slept for thousands of years until
the fellowship awakened it.

"Samsonknight" <samsonknight2k [at] btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:d50rm6$h1o$1 [at] nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> Hi,
>
> I am a fan of the movies (all 3). It has got me really interested in
> reading the books, but I just haven't found the time to read the books due
> to other commitments.
>
> Anyway, I have a couple of questions that I need answering:
>
> 1. Why do the elfs and dawrfs hate each other? In the movie Gimli and
> Legolas hate each other because one is an elf and the other is a Dawrf but
> it is not explained why this is the case.
>
> 2.What is a balrog? The creature in the mines of Moria. Again the movie
> didn't explain how it it was created, or its purpose. All we are told that
> it is some kind of demon.
>
> Thank you very much for your time :)
>
>
>

Re: Questions about LOTR [message #32836 ]

Mi, 11 Mai 2005 07:41

DramaNut

Hi,

I constantly read the books, I find something new in them everytime
that I haven't, and as far as not having any time to read the books,
not to Grtz Ruud, but to Samsonknight, I find that even a bus ride, or
a few minutes before bed is an excellent place to start reading the
books, trust me, it will be an amazing experience :).

DramaNut

Re: Questions about LOTR [message #33597 ]

Mi, 11 Mai 2005 20:36

Ruud Bergs

DramaNut wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I constantly read the books, I find something new in them everytime
> that I haven't, and as far as not having any time to read the books,
> not to Grtz Ruud, but to Samsonknight, I find that even a bus ride, or
> a few minutes before bed is an excellent place to start reading the
> books, trust me, it will be an amazing experience :).
>
> DramaNut

Hey DramaNut,

At first my name is not Grtz Ruud, but just Ruud: Grtz just stands for
Greets/Greetings :-)

I find reading Tolkien very relaxing myself. I have been dragging the LOTR
all around the house, where I sit here and there in little corners reading.
But most of the time I read some before I go to bed. Although I have only
read LOTR (2nd time now) and the Hobbit (I've read it once), I say JRRT is
an excellent writer.
I was in a bookstore last week where I almost bought the Silmarillion but I
decided to wait till I finished LOTR: I have too many books on the list to
be read at the moment, afraid to take on even more.

Reading them is an amazing theatre, I have to agree with you on that. I
can't say it too often...

Ruud

Re: Questions about LOTR [message #47258 ]

Di, 24 Mai 2005 07:26

morgothscurse2002

On Tue, 10 May 2005 22:26:32 -0400, "Frank Aielo"
<faiello3021 [at] rogers.com> wrote:

>As for the Balrog of Moria, it is a Maiar spirit as old as Arda itself. In
>the beginning of the world, many creatures were created, some good; others
>were converted to evil by Morgoth, Sauron's master. These creatures were of
>the family of Valaraukar. They were semi-immortal and very powerful. Gandalf
>was also a Maiar by nature, however, due to the constraints placed upon him
>by the Valar of Valinor, his stature and demeanour were of a peaceful
>nature, since that was his mission in Middle earth. He was prohibited from
>using force against force to defeat Sauron.

"Semi-immortal"? I don't recall any evidence in ANY of Tolkien's
writings that suggests that Balrogs ever aged. Can you or anybody
else point me to a specific citation?

Morgoth's Curse

Re: Questions about LOTR [message #47268 ]

Di, 24 Mai 2005 18:05

Natman

On Tue, 24 May 2005 05:26:47 GMT, Morgoth's Curse
<morgothscurse2002 [at] nospamyahoo.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 10 May 2005 22:26:32 -0400, "Frank Aielo"
><faiello3021 [at] rogers.com> wrote:

>"Semi-immortal"? I don't recall any evidence in ANY of Tolkien's
>writings that suggests that Balrogs ever aged. Can you or anybody
>else point me to a specific citation?

When Balrogs start to age, the tips of their wings turn grey.... :>)

Re: Questions about LOTR [message #47281 ]

Di, 24 Mai 2005 22:33

Graham Lockwood

On Tue, 24 May 2005 11:05:47 -0500, Natman wrote
(in article <m3k69159evi935skads3r83c7la7pjhpuc [at] 4ax.com>):

> On Tue, 24 May 2005 05:26:47 GMT, Morgoth's Curse
> <morgothscurse2002 [at] nospamyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 10 May 2005 22:26:32 -0400, "Frank Aielo"
>> <faiello3021 [at] rogers.com> wrote:
>
>> "Semi-immortal"? I don't recall any evidence in ANY of Tolkien's
>> writings that suggests that Balrogs ever aged. Can you or anybody
>> else point me to a specific citation?
>
> When Balrogs start to age, the tips of their wings turn grey.... :>)

And they become grumpy and don't like to leave home, getting very angry when
visitors come to call.

Also they like to turn the heat ALL the way up...

---
Graham

Re: Questions about LOTR [message #47287 ]

Di, 24 Mai 2005 23:08

Christopher Kreuzer

Natman <nat_mann [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 24 May 2005 05:26:47 GMT, Morgoth's Curse
> <morgothscurse2002 [at] nospamyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 10 May 2005 22:26:32 -0400, "Frank Aielo"
>> <faiello3021 [at] rogers.com> wrote:
>
>> "Semi-immortal"? I don't recall any evidence in ANY of Tolkien's
>> writings that suggests that Balrogs ever aged. Can you or anybody
>> else point me to a specific citation?
>
> When Balrogs start to age, the tips of their wings turn grey.... :>)

Eventually turning a shadow-black instead of white? :-)

Re: Questions about LOTR [message #47306 ]

Mi, 25 Mai 2005 04:07

the softrat

On Tue, 24 May 2005 09:05:47 -0700, Natman <nat_mann [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>When Balrogs start to age, the tips of their wings turn grey.... :>)

WOW! From 'insubstantial' to 'grey'?!!? WOW!

It's all a mist to me.....

the softrat
"Honi soit qui mal y pense."
mailto:softrat [at] pobox.com
--
If it jams, force it. If it breaks, it needed replacement anyway.

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