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Fantasy » alt.fan.tolkien » IMPORTANT
| IMPORTANT [message #300453] |
So, 16 Juli 2006 03:38 |
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what did tolkien think about commas?
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| Re: IMPORTANT [message #300484 ] |
So, 16 Juli 2006 23:41 |
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Count Menelvagor typed:
> what did tolkien think about commas?
I imagine they gave him pause for thought.
--
Speaking Clock
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| Re: IMPORTANT [message #300486 ] |
Mo, 17 Juli 2006 00:08 |
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Speaking Clock wrote:
> Count Menelvagor typed:
> > what did tolkien think about commas?
>
> I imagine they gave him pause for thought.
Which raises another important question: Did Balrogs have paws?
yours in faith,
Harold Marx Brzeznski
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| Re: IMPORTANT [message #300492 ] |
Mo, 17 Juli 2006 00:56 |
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Harold Marx Brzeznski <brzeznski [at] gmail.com> wrote:
> Speaking Clock wrote:
>> Count Menelvagor typed:
>>> what did tolkien think about commas?
>>
>> I imagine they gave him pause for thought.
>
> Which raises another important question: Did Balrogs have paws?
If they didn't, they would have comma cropper.
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| Re: IMPORTANT [message #300498 ] |
Mo, 17 Juli 2006 01:39 |
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Wes =F0u Christopher Kreuzer hal!
> Harold Marx Brzeznski <brzeznski [at] gmail.com> wrote:
> > Speaking Clock wrote:
> >> Count Menelvagor typed:
> >>> what did tolkien think about commas?
> >>=20
> >> I imagine they gave him pause for thought.
> >=20
> > Which raises another important question: Did Balrogs have paws?
>=20
> If they didn't, they would have comma cropper.
I see this group has been colon-ised by punsters.
--=20
Arvind
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| Re: IMPORTANT [message #300504 ] |
Mo, 17 Juli 2006 03:22 |
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TT Arvind <ttarvind [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
> Wes ðu Christopher Kreuzer hal!
>> Harold Marx Brzeznski <brzeznski [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Speaking Clock wrote:
>>>> Count Menelvagor typed:
>>>>> what did tolkien think about commas?
>>>>
>>>> I imagine they gave him pause for thought.
>>>
>>> Which raises another important question: Did Balrogs have paws?
>>
>> If they didn't, they would have comma cropper.
>
> I see this group has been colon-ised by punsters.
Pun-ctilious repetition is the last resort of a pun-master...
[Hmm. I could have sworn you used this pun in a previous thread, but I
can't seem to find it when searching for 'colonic', 'colon-ised', etc.
In fact, rather embarassingly, it seems I'm the one being repetitious:
http://tinyurl.com/plos3]
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| Re: IMPORTANT [message #300509 ] |
Mo, 17 Juli 2006 05:28 |
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Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
> TT Arvind <ttarvind [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Wes =F0u Christopher Kreuzer hal!
> >> Harold Marx Brzeznski <brzeznski [at] gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Speaking Clock wrote:
> >>>> Count Menelvagor typed:
> >>>>> what did tolkien think about commas?
> >>>>
> >>>> I imagine they gave him pause for thought.
> >>>
> >>> Which raises another important question: Did Balrogs have paws?
> >>
> >> If they didn't, they would have comma cropper.
> >
> > I see this group has been colon-ised by punsters.
>
> Pun-ctilious repetition is the last resort of a pun-master...
>
> [Hmm. I could have sworn you used this pun in a previous thread, but I
> can't seem to find it when searching for 'colonic', 'colon-ised', etc.
> In fact, rather embarassingly, it seems I'm the one being repetitious:
> http://tinyurl.com/plos3]
would tolkien have approved of these puns?
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| Re: IMPORTANT [message #300520 ] |
Mo, 17 Juli 2006 12:48 |
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So said Christopher Kreuzer and others:
> >>>>> what did tolkien think about commas?
> >>>>
> >>>> I imagine they gave him pause for thought.
> >>>
> >>> Which raises another important question: Did Balrogs have paws?
> >>
> >> If they didn't, they would have comma cropper.
> >
> > I see this group has been colon-ised by punsters.
>
> Pun-ctilious repetition is the last resort of a pun-master...
>
> [Hmm. I could have sworn you used this pun in a previous thread, but I
> can't seem to find it when searching for 'colonic', 'colon-ised', etc.
> In fact, rather embarassingly, it seems I'm the one being repetitious:
> http://tinyurl.com/plos3]
Phew. I would have been ribbed mercilessly if I'd repeated an
anatomical pun.
--
Arvind
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| Re: IMPORTANT [message #303215 ] |
Mo, 17 Juli 2006 15:46 |
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Count Menelvagor wrote:
> what did tolkien think about commas?
It certainly appears from his writing that he had some kind of commaphobia.
I'd have used twice as many (of course, nobody would likely have been
reading LOTR if I'd written it).
--
derek
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| Re: IMPORTANT [message #303216 ] |
Mo, 17 Juli 2006 16:09 |
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Wes =F0u Derek Broughton hal!
> Count Menelvagor wrote:
>=20
> > what did tolkien think about commas?
>=20
> It certainly appears from his writing that he had some kind of commaphobi=
a.=20
You can't blame him. That sort of phobia was quite comman in his day.
--=20
Arvind
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| Re: IMPORTANT [message #303219 ] |
Mo, 17 Juli 2006 16:46 |
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TT Arvind wrote:
>> It certainly appears from his writing that he had some kind of commaphobia.
>
> You can't blame him. That sort of phobia was quite comman in his day.
i'd believe you if i didn't know you are a conman.
--
tamf. TEUNC. lullaby.
Three Things I Do Not Understand: 1. Swahili 2. Whales 3. Squirrels
(Celaeno)
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| Re: IMPORTANT [message #303221 ] |
Mo, 17 Juli 2006 16:47 |
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TT Arvind wrote:
> Phew. I would have been ribbed mercilessly if I'd repeated an
> anatomical pun.
dknot worry, eye'll rib you anyway.
--
tamf. TEUNC. lullaby.
Three Things I Do Not Understand: 1. Swahili 2. Whales 3. Squirrels
(Celaeno)
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| Re: IMPORTANT [message #303229 ] |
Mo, 17 Juli 2006 16:59 |
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TT Arvind wrote:
> Wes ðu Derek Broughton hal!
>> Count Menelvagor wrote:
>>
>> > what did tolkien think about commas?
>>
>> It certainly appears from his writing that he had some kind of
>> commaphobia.
>
> You can't blame him. That sort of phobia was quite comman in his day.
>
I didn't know that. Somewhere in HOME 1, Christopher Tolkien had a comment
about the commas, and I got the impression Tolkien was sparse with them
even for his time.
--
derek
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| Re: IMPORTANT [message #303253 ] |
Mo, 17 Juli 2006 23:07 |
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Derek Broughton <news [at] pointerstop.ca> wrote:
> Count Menelvagor wrote:
>
>> what did tolkien think about commas?
>
> It certainly appears from his writing that he had some kind of
> commaphobia. I'd have used twice as many (of course, nobody would
> likely have been reading LOTR if I'd written it).
Oh. We are being serious now?
I recently discovered a good example of where Tolkien should have used
commas. It is where Treebeard is talking to Merry and Pippin about
Fimbrethil, right at the end of the chapter 'Treebeard', and during the
"last march of the Ents":
"I should dearly have liked to see Fimbrethil again. But there, my
friends, songs like trees bear fruit only in their own time and their
own way: and sometimes they are withered untimely." (Treebeard)
The missing commas are around the phrase "like trees".
Compare:
a) "songs like trees bear fruit only in their own time and their own
way"
and
b) "songs, like trees, bear fruit only in their own time and their own
way"
The first version (a, published) can be read to be only about songs that
happen to be, or that literally are, like trees, and that songs that are
not like trees do not "bear fruit" etc. The second version (b,
corrected) makes it clear that _all_ songs are being compared to trees,
and the way trees bear fruit, and not just a subset of songs that are
like trees.
Christopher
--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard
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| Re: IMPORTANT [message #303256 ] |
Mo, 17 Juli 2006 23:58 |
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Christopher Kreuzer <spamgard [at] blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> I recently discovered a good example of where Tolkien should have used
> commas. It is where Treebeard is talking to Merry and Pippin about
> Fimbrethil, right at the end of the chapter 'Treebeard', and during
> the "last march of the Ents":
>
> "I should dearly have liked to see Fimbrethil again. But there, my
> friends, songs like trees bear fruit only in their own time and their
> own way: and sometimes they are withered untimely." (Treebeard)
>
> The missing commas are around the phrase "like trees".
<snip>
Those are parenthetical commas. You can cut out the information between
them and the sentence still makes sense. I've also noticed Tolkien
didn't use them as much as I would think necessary (but I'm not an
Oxford University professor so what do I know?) and somehow I associate
that with what I've heard of him speaking - very fast, very hasty. Most
un-Ent-like!
--
Speaking Clock
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| Re: IMPORTANT [message #303263 ] |
Di, 18 Juli 2006 03:31 |
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Derek Broughton wrote:
> TT Arvind wrote:
>
> > Wes =F0u Derek Broughton hal!
> >> Count Menelvagor wrote:
> >>
> >> > what did tolkien think about commas?
> >>
> >> It certainly appears from his writing that he had some kind of
> >> commaphobia.
> >
> > You can't blame him. That sort of phobia was quite comman in his day.
> >
> I didn't know that. Somewhere in HOME 1, Christopher Tolkien had a comme=
nt
> about the commas, and I got the impression Tolkien was sparse with them
> even for his time.
Tolkien was a bit McCarthyite, of course.
PS. Join our cult now!
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| Re: IMPORTANT [message #303273 ] |
Di, 18 Juli 2006 07:32 |
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Count Menelvagor wrote:
> what did tolkien think about commas?
He thought that the break-up of Barad-dur would be very difficult,
and was obviously influenced by a song by Neil Sedaka:
Down dooby doo down down, comma comma
Down dooby doo down down, comma comma
Down dooby doo down down
Breaking up is hard to do.
Sean_Q_
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| Re: IMPORTANT [message #303283 ] |
Di, 18 Juli 2006 11:50 |
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Wes =F0u Derek Broughton hal!
> I didn't know that. Somewhere in HOME 1, Christopher Tolkien had a comme=
nt
> about the commas, and I got the impression Tolkien was sparse with them
> even for his time.
I have just been reading some academic works from that period, and=20
commas seem to have been quite a scarce commodity. I don't remember=20
the HoME comment, though, so it may well be the case that Tolkien's use=20
of commas was sparse even by those standards. =20
--=20
Arvind
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| Re: IMPORTANT [message #303289 ] |
Di, 18 Juli 2006 15:04 |
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Sean wrote:
> Count Menelvagor wrote:
>
> > what did tolkien think about commas?
>
> He thought that the break-up of Barad-dur would be very difficult,
> and was obviously influenced by a song by Neil Sedaka:
>
Once again his foreboding rang true, the break up of barad-dur (better
known by their english moniker 'The Barad Boys' was a great loss to
music - who could forget their great ballad 'Cirith Gorgor Girls'
Well Easterling girls are hip
I really dig those scythes they wear
And the Harad girls with the way they talk
They knock me out when I'm down there
The Morgul riders daughters really make you feel alright
And the Nurnen girls with the way they kiss
They keep their boyfriends warm at night
I wish they all could be Cirith Gorgor
I wish they all could be Cirith Gorgor
I wish they all could be Cirith Gorgor girls
.......
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| Re: IMPORTANT [message #304362 ] |
Mi, 19 Juli 2006 15:31 |
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Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
> "I should dearly have liked to see Fimbrethil again. But there, my
> friends, songs like trees bear fruit only in their own time and their
> own way: and sometimes they are withered untimely." (Treebeard)
<pinch>
> a) "songs like trees bear fruit only in their own time and their own
> way"
<punch>
> b) "songs, like trees, bear fruit only in their own time and their own
> way"
> The first version (a, published) can be read to be only about songs that
> happen to be, or that literally are, like trees, and that songs that are
> not like trees do not "bear fruit" etc. The second version (b,
> corrected) makes it clear that _all_ songs are being compared to trees,
> and the way trees bear fruit, and not just a subset of songs that are
> like trees.
however, i prefer the published version, and i suppose Tolkien did too
(i find it hard to believe that he didn't know the comma rules!).
version a sounds dreamy and songlike, which rather suits the subject.
version b sounds like a slightly poetical biology/musicology lecture.
--
tamf. TEUNC. smithereen.
All that glitters has a high refractive index. (BelDion)
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| Re: IMPORTANT [message #304377 ] |
Mi, 19 Juli 2006 23:35 |
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"Sam's the little guy" <samdekat [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1153227868.345320.178040 [at] 75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Once again his foreboding rang true, the break up of barad-dur (better
> known by their english moniker 'The Barad Boys' was a great loss to
> music - who could forget their great ballad 'Cirith Gorgor Girls'
>
> Well Easterling girls are hip
> I really dig those scythes they wear
> And the Harad girls with the way they talk
> They knock me out when I'm down there
[snip]
Ha-ha-ha!! Brilliant!!
========
OK - "Good Vibrations" by the Witch-king of Angmar
(backed up by a Nazgûl chorus):
I, I love the cloaks and hoods we wear
And the way our presence never fails to scare.
I--- hear the sound of hobbit wail
On the wind that sends our shrieks across the air.
I'm pickin' up good vibrations
The Ring's giving me excitations
I'm pickin' up good vibrations
(oom bop bop good vibrations)
It's giving me excitations
(oom bop bop excitations)
Good good good good vibrations
(oom bop bop)
It's giving me excitations
(oom bop bop excitations)
Good good good good vibrations
(oom bop bop)
It's giving me excitations
(oom bop bop excitations)
I close my orbs
It's somehow closer now
Cruelly smile, I know it's almost mine.
When--- I nail Baggins' bones
He'll go with me to our shadow world.
I'm pickin' up good vibrations
It's giving me excitations
(Etc.)
(ahhhhhhh)
(ah my my what elation)
Sauron knows and he sends me there
(ah my my what a sensation)
(ah my my what elations)
(ah my my what)
Gotta keep those bloody good vibrations
A happenin' to me
Gotta keep those bloody good vibrations
A happenin' to me
Gotta keep those bloody good vibrations
A happenin'
Ahhhhhhhh
Good good good good vibrations
(oom bop bop)
(I'm pickin up good vibrations)
The Ring's giving me excitations
(oom bop bop)
(excitations)
Good good good good vibrations
(oom bop bop)
(Etc.)
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| Re: IMPORTANT [message #304381 ] |
Do, 20 Juli 2006 01:03 |
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"Sam's the little guy" <samdekat [at] hotmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:1153227868.345320.178040 [at] 75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> He thought that the break-up of Barad-dur would be very difficult,
>> and was obviously influenced by a song by Neil Sedaka:
>
> Once again his foreboding rang true, the break up of barad-dur (better
> known by their english moniker 'The Barad Boys' was a great loss to
> music - who could forget their great ballad 'Cirith Gorgor Girls'
>
> Well Easterling girls are hip
> I really dig those scythes they wear
> And the Harad girls with the way they talk
> They knock me out when I'm down there
>
> The Morgul riders daughters really make you feel alright
> And the Nurnen girls with the way they kiss
> They keep their boyfriends warm at night
>
> I wish they all could be Cirith Gorgor
> I wish they all could be Cirith Gorgor
> I wish they all could be Cirith Gorgor girls
Bar, Bar, Bar, Bar, Barad-dûr,
Bar, Bar, Bar, Bar, Barad-dûr,
Barad-dûr!
Fell down in ruins!
Barad-dûr!
They got it rocking and rolling, rocking and reeling,
Barad-dûr, dûr, dûr
Bar, barad-dûr.
Gandalf took a lance,
Looking for a chance
Saw Barad-dûr so he tought he'd break the manse
Of Barad-dûr, dûr, dûr, Barad-dûr;
They got it rocking and a rolling,
Rocking and reeling, Barad-dûr.
Tried Muzgash,
Tried to use a lash,
Tried mashing too
But he knew it wouldn't do
To save Barad-dûr, Bar, Bar, Barad-dûr
They got it rocking and rolling
Rocking and reeling, Barad-dûr.
Barad-dûr, Barad-dûr...
Öjevind
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| Re: IMPORTANT [message #304382 ] |
Do, 20 Juli 2006 01:09 |
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"Sam's the little guy" <samdekat [at] hotmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:1153227868.345320.178040 [at] 75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Sean wrote:
>> Count Menelvagor wrote:
>>
>> > what did tolkien think about commas?
>>
>> He thought that the break-up of Barad-dur would be very difficult,
>> and was obviously influenced by a song by Neil Sedaka:
>
> Once again his foreboding rang true, the break up of barad-dur (better
> known by their english moniker 'The Barad Boys' was a great loss to
> music - who could forget their great ballad 'Cirith Gorgor Girls'
>
> Well Easterling girls are hip
> I really dig those scythes they wear
> And the Harad girls with the way they talk
> They knock me out when I'm down there
>
> The Morgul riders daughters really make you feel alright
> And the Nurnen girls with the way they kiss
> They keep their boyfriends warm at night
>
> I wish they all could be Cirith Gorgor
> I wish they all could be Cirith Gorgor
> I wish they all could be Cirith Gorgor girls
Bar, Bar, Bar, Bar, Barad-dûr,
Bar, Bar, Bar, Bar, Barad----
Barad-dûr!
Fell down in ruins!
Barad-dûr!
They got it rocking and rolling, rocking and reeling,
Barad-dûr. Bar, Bar, Bar, Barad-dûr!
Gandalf took a lance,
Looking for a chance
Saw Barad-dûr so he tought he'd break the manse
Of Barad-dûr, Bar, Bar, Barad-dûr;
They got it rocking and a rolling,
Rocking and reeling, Barad-dûr.
Bar, Bar, Bar, Barad-dûr.
Tried Muzgash,
Tried to use a lash,
Tried mashing too
But he knew it wouldn't do
To save Barad-dûr, Bar, Bar, Barad-dûr
They got it rocking and rolling
Rocking and reeling, Barad-dûr.
Bar, Bar, Bar. Barad-dûr...
Öjevind
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| Re: IMPORTANT [message #304461 ] |
Fr, 21 Juli 2006 02:15 |
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Wes =F0u Tamf Moo hal!
> > Phew. I would have been ribbed mercilessly if I'd repeated an=20
> > anatomical pun.
>=20
> dknot worry, eye'll rib you anyway.
Thank you, but I don't think I kneed that.
--=20
Arvind
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| Re: IMPORTANT [message #304464 ] |
Fr, 21 Juli 2006 02:20 |
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TT Arvind <ttarvind [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
> Wes ðu Tamf Moo hal!
>
>>> Phew. I would have been ribbed mercilessly if I'd repeated an
>>> anatomical pun.
>>
>> dknot worry, eye'll rib you anyway.
>
> Thank you, but I don't think I kneed that.
"Root and twig, [this thread is] very odd!"
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| Re: IMPORTANT [message #304468 ] |
Fr, 21 Juli 2006 04:02 |
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Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
> TT Arvind <ttarvind [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Wes =F0u Tamf Moo hal!
> >
> >>> Phew. I would have been ribbed mercilessly if I'd repeated an
> >>> anatomical pun.
> >>
> >> dknot worry, eye'll rib you anyway.
> >
> > Thank you, but I don't think I kneed that.
>
> "Root and twig, [this thread is] very odd!"
The entire purpose of this thread is to entrap souls.
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| Re: IMPORTANT [message #304469 ] |
Fr, 21 Juli 2006 04:28 |
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On 20 Jul 2006 19:02:53 -0700, "Pseudonymus al-Faqha'ter III"
<pseudonimofaqhater [at] yahoo.com.br> wrote:
>
>Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
>> TT Arvind <ttarvind [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > Wes ðu Tamf Moo hal!
>> >
>> >>> Phew. I would have been ribbed mercilessly if I'd repeated an
>> >>> anatomical pun.
>> >>
>> >> dknot worry, eye'll rib you anyway.
>> >
>> > Thank you, but I don't think I kneed that.
>>
>> "Root and twig, [this thread is] very odd!"
>
>The entire purpose of this thread is to entrap souls.
The UFAT version of flypaper, eh?
Morgoth's Curse
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| Re: IMPORTANT [message #304493 ] |
Sa, 22 Juli 2006 06:13 |
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Morgoth's Curse wrote:
> On 20 Jul 2006 19:02:53 -0700, "Pseudonymus al-Faqha'ter III"
> <pseudonimofaqhater [at] yahoo.com.br> wrote:
>
> >
> >Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
> >> TT Arvind <ttarvind [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Wes =F0u Tamf Moo hal!
> >> >
> >> >>> Phew. I would have been ribbed mercilessly if I'd repeated an
> >> >>> anatomical pun.
> >> >>
> >> >> dknot worry, eye'll rib you anyway.
> >> >
> >> > Thank you, but I don't think I kneed that.
> >>
> >> "Root and twig, [this thread is] very odd!"
> >
> >The entire purpose of this thread is to entrap souls.
>
> The UFAT version of flypaper, eh?
More like the Balrog version. The threads of the Count are accursed!
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