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Miscellaneous / Verschiedenes » alt.fan.james-bond » Connery Bond DVDs: Aspect Ratio
Connery Bond DVDs: Aspect Ratio [message #293274] Mi, 28 Juni 2006 17:21
Paul Clarke  
I'm not an expert on aspect ratios, but I have a question for those who
may be more informed. The first three 007 films appear to have been
filmed, at least from my viewing of the old laserdisc editions, in a
ratio that almost approximates a standard tv, in other words close to
1.33:1. On a standard tv, the laserdisc versions barely had a letterbox.

The Special Edition DVDs of DN, FRWL, and GF had an anamorphic transfer
that filled the 16:9 frame of a widescreen set. Logically, then, the
frame on these transfers has been cropped from the top and bottom to fit
the 16:9 frame. It appears that the Ultimate Editions also fit the
widescreen tv frame.

Am I missing something, or are the first 3 Bond films not in the correct
aspect ratio on DVD?

--
==007===
“My dear girl, there are some things that just aren't done, such as
drinking Dom Perignon '53 above a temperature of 38 degrees Fahrenheit.
That's as bad as putting a secret agent in a gorilla suit.”
Re: Connery Bond DVDs: Aspect Ratio [message #293278 ] Do, 29 Juni 2006 00:53
Mac  
Paul Clarke wrote:

> I'm not an expert on aspect ratios, but I have a question for those
> who may be more informed. The first three 007 films appear to have
> been filmed, at least from my viewing of the old laserdisc editions,
> in a ratio that almost approximates a standard tv, in other words
> close to 1.33:1. On a standard tv, the laserdisc versions barely had
> a letterbox.
>
> The Special Edition DVDs of DN, FRWL, and GF had an anamorphic
> transfer that filled the 16:9 frame of a widescreen set. Logically,
> then, the frame on these transfers has been cropped from the top and
> bottom to fit the 16:9 frame. It appears that the Ultimate Editions
> also fit the widescreen tv frame.
>
> Am I missing something, or are the first 3 Bond films not in the
> correct aspect ratio on DVD?

First three shot open matte and presented at 1.66:1 (UK) and 1.85:1 (US).
Same for LIVE AND LET DIE and THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN.
Widescreen TVs are approx 1.77:1, so the anamorphic enhanced DVDs
are cropped slightly when presenting a film shot "flat" (i.e. not 'scope).
This applies to every film shot flat and enhanced for widescreen TVs.

HTH.

Never understand why the manufacturers of the TVs didn't consult
with the filmmakers.

--
-- Mac
Re: Connery Bond DVDs: Aspect Ratio [message #293280 ] Do, 29 Juni 2006 01:18
Blofelds Cat  
"Mac" <see.mac [at] SPAMLESSvirgin.net> wrote in message
news:4ggfk7F1n394oU1 [at] individual.net...
> Paul Clarke wrote:
>
>> I'm not an expert on aspect ratios, but I have a question for those
>> who may be more informed. The first three 007 films appear to have
>> been filmed, at least from my viewing of the old laserdisc editions,
>> in a ratio that almost approximates a standard tv, in other words
>> close to 1.33:1. On a standard tv, the laserdisc versions barely had
>> a letterbox.
>>
>> The Special Edition DVDs of DN, FRWL, and GF had an anamorphic
>> transfer that filled the 16:9 frame of a widescreen set. Logically,
>> then, the frame on these transfers has been cropped from the top and
>> bottom to fit the 16:9 frame. It appears that the Ultimate Editions
>> also fit the widescreen tv frame.
>>
>> Am I missing something, or are the first 3 Bond films not in the
>> correct aspect ratio on DVD?
>
> First three shot open matte and presented at 1.66:1 (UK) and 1.85:1 (US).
> Same for LIVE AND LET DIE and THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN.
> Widescreen TVs are approx 1.77:1, so the anamorphic enhanced DVDs
> are cropped slightly when presenting a film shot "flat" (i.e. not 'scope).
> This applies to every film shot flat and enhanced for widescreen TVs.
>
> HTH.
>
> Never understand why the manufacturers of the TVs didn't consult
> with the filmmakers.

The exact same sentiment was expressed by the American Cinematographers
Society.

cheers
Re: Connery Bond DVDs: Aspect Ratio [message #293297 ] Do, 29 Juni 2006 16:11
Paul Clarke  
Thanks for the info. I suspected there was some cropping on the films.
Another question: why can't they present the films in 1.66:1 and put
black bars on the *side* of the picture?

Mac wrote:
> First three shot open matte and presented at 1.66:1 (UK) and 1.85:1 (US).
> Same for LIVE AND LET DIE and THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN.
> Widescreen TVs are approx 1.77:1, so the anamorphic enhanced DVDs
> are cropped slightly when presenting a film shot "flat" (i.e. not 'scope).
> This applies to every film shot flat and enhanced for widescreen TVs.
>
> HTH.
>
> Never understand why the manufacturers of the TVs didn't consult
> with the filmmakers.
>

--
==007===
“My dear girl, there are some things that just aren't done, such as
drinking Dom Perignon '53 above a temperature of 38 degrees Fahrenheit.
That's as bad as putting a secret agent in a gorilla suit.”
Re: Connery Bond DVDs: Aspect Ratio [message #293299 ] Do, 29 Juni 2006 16:50
Mike Feeney  
Mac wrote:
> Paul Clarke wrote:
>
> > I'm not an expert on aspect ratios, but I have a question for those
> > who may be more informed. The first three 007 films appear to have
> > been filmed, at least from my viewing of the old laserdisc editions,
> > in a ratio that almost approximates a standard tv, in other words
> > close to 1.33:1. On a standard tv, the laserdisc versions barely had
> > a letterbox.
> >
> > The Special Edition DVDs of DN, FRWL, and GF had an anamorphic
> > transfer that filled the 16:9 frame of a widescreen set. Logically,
> > then, the frame on these transfers has been cropped from the top and
> > bottom to fit the 16:9 frame. It appears that the Ultimate Editions
> > also fit the widescreen tv frame.
> >
> > Am I missing something, or are the first 3 Bond films not in the
> > correct aspect ratio on DVD?
>
> First three shot open matte and presented at 1.66:1 (UK) and 1.85:1 (US).
> Same for LIVE AND LET DIE and THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN.
> Widescreen TVs are approx 1.77:1, so the anamorphic enhanced DVDs
> are cropped slightly when presenting a film shot "flat" (i.e. not 'scope).
> This applies to every film shot flat and enhanced for widescreen TVs.
>
> HTH.
>
> Never understand why the manufacturers of the TVs didn't consult
> with the filmmakers.
>
> --
> -- Mac


I believe that the widescreen tv's were dimensioned for the high-def
television broadcast standard -- so that HD broadcasts of tv shows will
fit perfectly.

--Mike
"James Bond. You appear with the tedious inevitability that The Doctor
and Rose will dematerialize either on earth or an earth-orbiting
satellite."
Re: Connery Bond DVDs: Aspect Ratio [message #295560 ] Fr, 30 Juni 2006 15:42
Eric Grayson  
I can't speak for the Moores, because I've never projected them, but
the flat Connery Bond pictures are, for the most part, NOT shot open
matte at 1.33:1 and then presented at 1.66...

It is actually an interesting point of history that the stuff Terence
Young shot is almost always hard-matted in camera at 1.66 (well, maybe
closer to 1.5 or so), but the second-unit stuff is almost all 1.33 open
matte. So you can almost always tell (if projecting at 1.33), which
material was the famous "insert work" that Peter Hunt did.

Some of Hunt's work is actually on a silent camera and printed at
something like 1.1:1, which means that pulling the plate can show very
interesting things never shown on a DVD... for example, the Mustang in
Goldfinger is very obviously up on blocks. Incidentally, Goldfinger is
shot much the same way as the other two.

Bear in mind that 99% of theaters ran the Bonds at 1.85:1 in the US,
which is MORE cropped than the DVDs are, and they work pretty well that
way (they were framed to be run either way), so the DVDs at 16:9 are
actually a rather nice compromise between 1.66 and 1.85.

For you guys who get really anal-retentive about framing, even
hard-matted US frames are seldom 1.85:1, so that they give room for
sloppy photography, printing, and projection. I think the tightest
matte I ever saw was probably on Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey, and that
actually caused trouble at the cinema where I saw it...

So you guys need the post-Ultimate Bond DVD sets that have variable
aspect ratio from 1.1 up to 16:9.

Eric
Re: Connery Bond DVDs: Aspect Ratio [message #295564 ] Sa, 01 Juli 2006 00:03
Mac  
Eric Grayson wrote:

> I can't speak for the Moores, because I've never projected them, but
> the flat Connery Bond pictures are, for the most part, NOT shot open
> matte at 1.33:1 and then presented at 1.66...
>
> It is actually an interesting point of history that the stuff Terence
> Young shot is almost always hard-matted in camera at 1.66 (well, maybe
> closer to 1.5 or so), but the second-unit stuff is almost all 1.33
> open matte. So you can almost always tell (if projecting at 1.33),
> which material was the famous "insert work" that Peter Hunt did.

A combo of open and hard matte? Interesting stuff. Wouldn't
mind seeing that out of frame material.

Thanks!
--
-- Mac

"James Bond. You appear with the tedious inevitability of Paul
McCartney making sure he gets a pre-nup next time out."
Re: Connery Bond DVDs: Aspect Ratio [message #295589 ] Sa, 01 Juli 2006 17:12
Eric Grayson  
In article <4glle5F1njdgfU1 [at] individual.net>, Mac
<see.mac [at] SPAMLESSvirgin.net> wrote:

> Eric Grayson wrote:
>
> > I can't speak for the Moores, because I've never projected them, but
> > the flat Connery Bond pictures are, for the most part, NOT shot open
> > matte at 1.33:1 and then presented at 1.66...
> >
> > It is actually an interesting point of history that the stuff Terence
> > Young shot is almost always hard-matted in camera at 1.66 (well, maybe
> > closer to 1.5 or so), but the second-unit stuff is almost all 1.33
> > open matte. So you can almost always tell (if projecting at 1.33),
> > which material was the famous "insert work" that Peter Hunt did.
>
> A combo of open and hard matte? Interesting stuff. Wouldn't
> mind seeing that out of frame material.

There's nothing really stunning about any of it. The worst thing I
recall is that in Goldfinger the laser is actually hand-drawn out of
frame into the matte area. I've looked closer at Goldfinger than the
others because I had to go through a number of prints to restore a good
35mm. Another funny thing is that Connery's car has a later expiration
date on its Swiss permit than does Gert Frobe's Rolls, so you can be
pretty convinced that they weren't there at the same time. This can be
seen on the windshields during the closeups. I doubt you can read it
on DVD, but's it's clear as a bell in 35mm.

There are some other fun bits you don't notice unless you see it in
35mm... for example, when Connery kisses Daniela Bianchi in FRWL, you
can see the glare of the studio lights off his black-painted scalp.
His hair was pretty thin even then. The Ford truck in GF has had the
engine removed out of it before it's crushed, and a few frames are
hand-painted black to cover this gaffe when the car is picked up. I
think you CAN see this on video...
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