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Fantasy » alt.fan.pratchett » Life is a Highway
Life is a Highway [message #286490] So, 11 Juni 2006 03:35
bbottorff  
I just saw Cars today. It's a pretty good movie. On the way home,
though, my wife and I were talking about this and that. One of the
questions that came up: why are there so few books out any more that
are just fun? It seems like most of the authors out there do any or all
of the following:

• Convoluted, Machivellian plots that require a scorecard to keep tabs
on the players. [1][2]
• Authors who try to grab you with gore, sadism, or other ickiness.
[1][3]
• They're "High Literary" books [1][4]
• They confuse sex [5] with relationship development [1][6][7]
• They're high drama books [1][8]

When I was young, I had little problem finding basic escapism. But it's
gotten harder and harder to find, to the point where I've been having
trouble finding books that I can even finish the cover blurb on! And my
list of authors still publishing that I trust has been shrinking smaller
and smaller, with fewer and fewer new authors going onto the list.

Seeing Cars really made me realize just how much I've been missing. Fun
story, enough depth and characterization to avoid the "Disney
cookie-cutter plot and characters[tm]"[9], but still avoided bogging
down the story. And it was fun. Well done, simple escapism.

Any ideas on where I can find basic escapism these days? Stuff that you
might not remember reading a month later, but you enjoyed at the time?
Anyone? Anyone?...



[1] And aren't fun
[2] usually because they're way to serious and the characters are way
too two-dimensional.
[3] usually because they're trying hard not to be fun. C'mon, if I
want gore, sadism, or other ickiness, I can watch the news.
[4] and if I need to explain why they're not fun, you'll never
understand.
[5] gratuitous, usually
[6] because I'm no longer a teenager, and would actually like to see
characters with depth
[7] and the ones pushing an agenda are the worst. I mean, homosexuals
exist in many cultures. I'm not going to condemn a book just for having
them. But when *everyone* seems to be involved in a homosexual
relationship, it just kinda kills the suspension of disbelief, OK?
[8] because I just hate soap operas. Even ones with dragons and
wizards.
[9] Mostly. It did better than Finding Nemo, anyway, and most people
consider that a good movie.
Re: Life is a Highway [message #286492 ] So, 11 Juni 2006 03:51
Philippa Cowderoy  
On Sun, 11 Jun 2006, Boyd Bottorff wrote:

> [7] and the ones pushing an agenda are the worst. I mean, homosexuals
> exist in many cultures. I'm not going to condemn a book just for having
> them. But when *everyone* seems to be involved in a homosexual
> relationship, it just kinda kills the suspension of disbelief, OK?
>

There're social circles it's true of. The majority of people I talk to
regularly on my MSN contacts list aren't straight, for example.

--
flippa [at] flippac.org

A problem that's all in your head is still a problem.
Brain damage is but one form of mind damage.
Re: Life is a Highway [message #286496 ] So, 11 Juni 2006 04:14
Stacie Hanes  
Philippa Cowderoy wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Jun 2006, Boyd Bottorff wrote:
>
>> [7] and the ones pushing an agenda are the worst. I mean,
>> homosexuals exist in many cultures. I'm not going to condemn a
>> book just for having them. But when *everyone* seems to be
>> involved in a homosexual relationship, it just kinda kills the
>> suspension of disbelief, OK?
>>
>
> There're social circles it's true of. The majority of people I talk
> to regularly on my MSN contacts list aren't straight, for example.

<sigh>

I don't have the energy for this one. Suffice to say that for some of us,
it's just a reality. Maybe straight people aren't the audience? Maybe it
isn't an agenda, just aimed at something other than the heteronormative
mainstream.

And the stat still seems to be that LGBT people are more common than most
movies acknowledge. It kills the suspension of disbelief for ME that there
aren't more gay characters on tv and in the movies.

Maybe reflecting the real proportions instead of making it a big issue would
be nice, but they don't listen to me when they make movies.




--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe
Re: Life is a Highway [message #286497 ] So, 11 Juni 2006 04:21
exquisite witch peach  
Boyd Bottorff wrote:
> I just saw Cars today. It's a pretty good movie. On the way home,
> though, my wife and I were talking about this and that. One of the
> questions that came up: why are there so few books out any more that
> are just fun? It seems like most of the authors out there do any or all
> of the following:
>
> • Convoluted, Machivellian plots that require a scorecard to keep tabs
> on the players. [1][2]
> • Authors who try to grab you with gore, sadism, or other ickiness.
> [1][3]
> • They're "High Literary" books [1][4]
> • They confuse sex [5] with relationship development [1][6][7]
> • They're high drama books [1][8]
>
> When I was young, I had little problem finding basic escapism. But it's
> gotten harder and harder to find, to the point where I've been having
> trouble finding books that I can even finish the cover blurb on! And my
> list of authors still publishing that I trust has been shrinking smaller
> and smaller, with fewer and fewer new authors going onto the list.
>
> Seeing Cars really made me realize just how much I've been missing. Fun
> story, enough depth and characterization to avoid the "Disney
> cookie-cutter plot and characters[tm]"[9], but still avoided bogging
> down the story. And it was fun. Well done, simple escapism.
>
> Any ideas on where I can find basic escapism these days? Stuff that you
> might not remember reading a month later, but you enjoyed at the time?
> Anyone? Anyone?...
>

Good god no, you've just ruled out everything I like in a book!

I'm fresh out of suggestions. And darn happy about it, too.
Re: Life is a Highway [message #286499 ] So, 11 Juni 2006 04:33
Stacie Hanes  
peachy ashie passion wrote:
> Boyd Bottorff wrote:

>> . Authors who try to grab you with gore, sadism, or other
>> ickiness. [1][3]

>> . They confuse sex [5] with relationship development [1][6][7]
>> . They're high drama books [1][8]
<snip>

> [7] and the ones pushing an agenda are the worst. I mean,
> homosexuals exist in many cultures. I'm not going to condemn a
> book just for having them. But when *everyone* seems to be
> involved in a homosexual relationship, it just kinda kills the
> suspension of disbelief, OK?
<snip>

> Good god no, you've just ruled out everything I like in a book!

Kinda leaves me and my gay sadistic friends out in the cold. ;-)

> I'm fresh out of suggestions. And darn happy about it, too.

Does relationship development belong in "escapist fluff," even good escapist
fluff? My term. But high drama and relationship development seem to be
something of a partnership.

I can do without the *extremely* complicated plots. For instance, I never
bothered with the names and places in LoTR except the major players. Thus, I
have no beef with how long it took any of them to get anywhere.

But I *like* gore, sadism, sex, and gay people. Sometimes in the same book.
I'm happily vrooooming through the last few Anita Blake novels lately.

The only regular character who isn't in a gay relationship is...Anita! And I
keep hoping. Hamilton had Anita look appreciatively at another female
character about a book and a half ago, from my personal POV, and I hope
this means Anita will get some girl action soon. <fx> Fingers crossed!

So recommendations....well, I just finished watching my second season of
"The L-Word" on DVD, and I'd be happy to lend . . .oh, wait. Never mind!

--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe
Re: Life is a Highway [message #286515 ] So, 11 Juni 2006 05:20
bbottorff  
> Does relationship development belong in "escapist fluff," even good escapist
> fluff? My term. But high drama and relationship development seem to be
> something of a partnership.

Let me see if I can explain what I consider the difference to be. First
off, I probably used a term in a way some people don't, and if it
confused you, I apologize. I think of "high drama" more like melodrama
mixed with soap opera.

It's kind of like watching high school socializing. Most of the people
I've ever seen in high school socializing/romances seem to be in it as
part of a game. Everyone seemed to have their own set of rules, mind
you, but most of them had some sort of game in mind. It may have been
trying to go out with a popular girl/guy, or to have the longest
relationship, or have sex, or have sex with as many people as possible,
or to have someone to do what you wanted them to do, or to just have a
boyfriend/girlfriend, or whatever, but it was for social status or
self-esteem.

These are the relationships I considered "high drama".

There were also a very few who looked like they actually cared about the
people they went out with as real people, not as pawns in a game.

This is what I considered "relationship development".



Anyway... back to the original point... I'm looking for good escapism.
Quality fluff, if you want to call it that. I just want a story that
has someone I enjoy for an hour or two, and put down when I'm done.
Something to pass the time. I don't care if it has romantic
relationships of any sort, so long as the hero is someone I could care
about for a few hours. IE, he's reasonably honest, trustworthy, etc.,
so I can actually root for him and feel good about it. If he has a
romantic relationship, it would be nice if I didn't get flashbacks back
to high school. It would also be nice if the story had positive, upbeat
points (I'm not requiring an entirely light or happy story, just one
with balance. Life's worst points still have good spots, just as the
best points have bad spots. Too many authors these days seem to forget
this, and the current fad, IMO, is to wallow in dark or icky settings
without any real letup [1], or just forgets that a story is supposed to
be fun in general.) I want a story that doesn't have any pretentions to
Serious Literature.

Something along the lines of P.G. Wodehouse.

And I am have had the worst time for years of finding a steady supply of
them.


[1] Yeah, I know... I just know... there are going to be a bunch of
people saying "look at Iraq or Afghanistan." Yeah, there are good
points even over there; there are a lot more to both those countries
than you see on the news.
Re: Life is a Highway [message #286519 ] So, 11 Juni 2006 05:55
Stacie Hanes  
Boyd Bottorff wrote:
>
> And I am have had the worst time for years of finding a steady
> supply of them.


Well, I like The "Cat Who..." mysteries by Lillian Jackson Braun.

Light detective novels. Also, Catherine Aird. The hero's a real guy, nice to
be with, they're thin, and just neat.

--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe
[I] Life is a Highway [message #286526 ] So, 11 Juni 2006 07:25
Julia Jones  
In article <Pine.WNT.4.61.0606110248560.1652 [at] SLINKY>, Philippa Cowderoy
<flippa [at] flippac.org> writes
>On Sun, 11 Jun 2006, Boyd Bottorff wrote:
>
>> [7] and the ones pushing an agenda are the worst. I mean, homosexuals
>> exist in many cultures. I'm not going to condemn a book just for having
>> them. But when *everyone* seems to be involved in a homosexual
>> relationship, it just kinda kills the suspension of disbelief, OK?
>>
>
>There're social circles it's true of. The majority of people I talk to
>regularly on my MSN contacts list aren't straight, for example.
>
There are places I hang out online where I sometimes feel like I'm the
token mono vanilla Kinsey 0. Watching the reports of the meatspace
activities, it's pretty clear that some of my friends and acquaintances
are in meatspace social circles where the majority of people are gay or
bi.

Oh, and I suppose I should declare my bias here, for those who aren't
aware - I'm a straight, mono, vanilla woman who writes m/m erotic
romance books. The reviews and fan mail I get suggests that there are a
lot of straight women out there who are very happy to buy books where
everyone is involved in a homosexual relationship. And who think that
sex *is* a part of a romantic relationship.
--
Julia Jones
Spindrift -- EPPIE 2006 finalist, 5 stars from JERR
Richard finds the truth in legend, when he finds a silkie bereft of
his skin and in need of a home... http://www.loose-id.net/detail.aspx?ID=138
[I] Life is a Highway [message #286527 ] So, 11 Juni 2006 07:27
Julia Jones  
In article <AhLig.4288$o4.1270 [at] newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
Anastasia <house_damodred [at] yahoo.com> writes
>But I *like* gore, sadism, sex, and gay people. Sometimes in the same book.

I'll put you on the beta-reader list for one of my series, shall I? (No,
it hasn't got actual gore.)

<g, d &r>
--
Julia Jones
M
Re: Life is a Highway [message #286538 ] So, 11 Juni 2006 10:40
Torak  
Boyd Bottorff wrote:
>
> Any ideas on where I can find basic escapism these days? Stuff that you
> might not remember reading a month later, but you enjoyed at the time?
> Anyone? Anyone?...

Matthew Reilly. Hollywood action B-movies in book form. He knows sod all
about technical weapons details, the plots are laughable, and one of the
books has a guy in an X-15 rocket flying alongside an ICBM to disarm it,
but they're bloody good fun.
Re: Life is a Highway [message #286541 ] So, 11 Juni 2006 10:44
Torak  
Anastasia wrote:
> Boyd Bottorff wrote:
>
>>And I am have had the worst time for years of finding a steady
>>supply of them.
>
>
>
> Well, I like The "Cat Who..." mysteries by Lillian Jackson Braun.
>
> Light detective novels. Also, Catherine Aird. The hero's a real guy, nice to
> be with, they're thin, and just neat.

Oh, and the Amelia Peabody books, by Elizabeth Peters.

Oh, and there are a few books about something called the "disc world"....
Re: [I] Life is a Highway [message #286550 ] So, 11 Juni 2006 11:13
jester  
On Sat, 10 Jun 2006 22:27:15 -0700, Julia Jones
<julia.jones [at] gmail.com> wrote:
<trim>
>I'll put you on the beta-reader list for one of my series, shall I? (No,
>it hasn't got actual gore.)

The gore isn't vidal to the plot then?

--
Andy Brown
PROGRAM - n. A magic spell cast over a computer allowing it to turn one's input
into error messages. v. tr.- To engage in a pastime similar to banging
one's head against a wall, but with fewer opportunities for reward.
Re: Life is a Highway [message #286563 ] So, 11 Juni 2006 13:28
naomi  
Torak wrote:
> Anastasia wrote:
>> Boyd Bottorff wrote:
>>
>>> And I am have had the worst time for years of finding a steady
>>> supply of them.
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, I like The "Cat Who..." mysteries by Lillian Jackson Braun.
>>
>> Light detective novels. Also, Catherine Aird. The hero's a real guy,
>> nice to be with, they're thin, and just neat.
>
> Oh, and the Amelia Peabody books, by Elizabeth Peters.
>
> Oh, and there are a few books about something called the "disc world"....
>

I've just started to read Alexander McCall Smith. He deals with some
important themes but in a light way. I like the way he writes
descriptively but I know it might annoy some people.

So far I've read "The Number One Ladies Detective Agency", and "Friends,
Lovers, Chocolate."

I find it hard to read new authors.

n
Re: Life is a Highway [message #286595 ] So, 11 Juni 2006 16:03
bbottorff  
> Matthew Reilly. Hollywood action B-movies in book form. He knows sod all
> about technical weapons details, the plots are laughable, and one of the
> books has a guy in an X-15 rocket flying alongside an ICBM to disarm it,
> but they're bloody good fun.

Thank you; I'll give it a try. This may be more brain-dead than I was
looking for, but at this point, I'm desperate. And it's been long
enough since I've read anything with the Plan 9 "damn the story, full
speed ahead" attitude.
Re: [I] Life is a Highway [message #286604 ] So, 11 Juni 2006 17:32
Stacie Hanes  
Julia Jones wrote:
> In article <AhLig.4288$o4.1270 [at] newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> Anastasia <house_damodred [at] yahoo.com> writes
>> But I *like* gore, sadism, sex, and gay people. Sometimes in the
>> same book.
>
> I'll put you on the beta-reader list for one of my series, shall I?
> (No, it hasn't got actual gore.)
>
> <g, d &r>

Well, the gore is optional.

--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe
Re: [I] Life is a Highway [message #286605 ] So, 11 Juni 2006 17:39
Pudde Fjord  
Anastasia wrote:
> Julia Jones wrote:
>> In article <AhLig.4288$o4.1270 [at] newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
>> Anastasia <house_damodred [at] yahoo.com> writes
>>> But I *like* gore, sadism, sex, and gay people. Sometimes in the
>>> same book.
>> I'll put you on the beta-reader list for one of my series, shall I?
>> (No, it hasn't got actual gore.)
>>
>> <g, d &r>
>
> Well, the gore is optional.
>
But Al Gore is not an Option...

Pudde.
Re: Life is a Highway [message #286608 ] So, 11 Juni 2006 17:40
Stacie Hanes  
naomi wrote:
>
> So far I've read "The Number One Ladies Detective Agency",

I've read that whole series, except for maybe the last two.

--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe
Re: [I] Life is a Highway [message #286617 ] So, 11 Juni 2006 18:43
Flesh-eating Dragon  
Boyd Bottorff wrote:

> Any ideas on where I can find basic escapism these days? Stuff that you
> might not remember reading a month later, but you enjoyed at the time?
> Anyone? Anyone?...

Aaaaahh, but you see, if I can recommend a book, that means I've
remembered it more than a month later. So if I can remember it, it
doesn't qualify. :-)

Adrian.
Re: Life is a Highway [message #286637 ] So, 11 Juni 2006 19:46
Rocky Frisco  
Boyd Bottorff wrote:

> Anyway... back to the original point... I'm looking for good escapism.
> Quality fluff, if you want to call it that. I just want a story that
> has someone I enjoy for an hour or two, and put down when I'm done.
> Something to pass the time. I don't care if it has romantic
> relationships of any sort, so long as the hero is someone I could care
> about for a few hours. IE, he's reasonably honest, trustworthy, etc.,
> so I can actually root for him and feel good about it. If he has a
> romantic relationship, it would be nice if I didn't get flashbacks back
> to high school. It would also be nice if the story had positive, upbeat
> points (I'm not requiring an entirely light or happy story, just one
> with balance. Life's worst points still have good spots, just as the
> best points have bad spots. Too many authors these days seem to forget
> this, and the current fad, IMO, is to wallow in dark or icky settings
> without any real letup [1], or just forgets that a story is supposed to
> be fun in general.) I want a story that doesn't have any pretentions to
> Serious Literature.
>
> Something along the lines of P.G. Wodehouse.
>
> And I am have had the worst time for years of finding a steady supply of
> them.
>
>
> [1] Yeah, I know... I just know... there are going to be a bunch of
> people saying "look at Iraq or Afghanistan." Yeah, there are good
> points even over there; there are a lot more to both those countries
> than you see on the news.

At the risk of being ridiculed, let me offer the best entertainment in
this vein I've experienced lately, which is the DVD sets of Buffy and
Angel. These never cease to amaze me. The combination of absurdity and
Whedon's cynical, dark sense of humour makes for at least one laughing
fit per episode, sometimes more.

-Rocky
--
O'Toole's Corollary: Murphy was an optimist.
Re: Life is a Highway [message #286642 ] So, 11 Juni 2006 19:54
Stacie Hanes  
Rocky Frisco wrote:
> Boyd Bottorff wrote:
>
>> Anyway... back to the original point... I'm looking for good
>> escapism. Quality fluff, if you want to call it that.

<snip>

> At the risk of being ridiculed,

<point & laugh> You left out Firefly! I ridicule you with vigor and glee!

> let me offer the best entertainment
> in this vein

no pun intended?

>I've experienced lately, which is the DVD sets of
> Buffy and Angel. These never cease to amaze me. The combination of
> absurdity and Whedon's cynical, dark sense of humour makes for at
> least one laughing fit per episode, sometimes more.

And Firefly.

--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe
Re: [I] Life is a Highway [message #286661 ] So, 11 Juni 2006 20:42
Rocky Frisco  
Pudde Fjord wrote:

> Anastasia wrote:
>
>> Julia Jones wrote:
>>
>>> In article <AhLig.4288$o4.1270 [at] newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
>>> Anastasia <house_damodred [at] yahoo.com> writes
>>>
>>>> But I *like* gore, sadism, sex, and gay people. Sometimes in the
>>>> same book.
>>>
>>> I'll put you on the beta-reader list for one of my series, shall I?
>>> (No, it hasn't got actual gore.)
>>>
>>> <g, d &r>
>>
>>
>> Well, the gore is optional.
>>
> But Al Gore is not an Option...

Wasn't he the second cousin of the Internet?

-Rocky
--
O'Toole's Corollary: Murphy was an optimist.
Re: Life is a Highway [message #286684 ] So, 11 Juni 2006 21:27
Torak  
naomi wrote:
> Torak wrote:
>
>> Anastasia wrote:
>>
>>> Boyd Bottorff wrote:
>>>
>>>> And I am have had the worst time for years of finding a steady
>>>> supply of them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, I like The "Cat Who..." mysteries by Lillian Jackson Braun.
>>>
>>> Light detective novels. Also, Catherine Aird. The hero's a real guy,
>>> nice to be with, they're thin, and just neat.
>>
>>
>> Oh, and the Amelia Peabody books, by Elizabeth Peters.
>>
>> Oh, and there are a few books about something called the "disc world"....
>>
>
> I've just started to read Alexander McCall Smith. He deals with some
> important themes but in a light way. I like the way he writes
> descriptively but I know it might annoy some people.
>
> So far I've read "The Number One Ladies Detective Agency",

I had trouble with that one. Didn't get more than a few pages. Is it
worth persevering?

> I find it hard to read new authors.

Try Peters, though. You'll enjoy them, I think.
Re: Life is a Highway [message #286685 ] So, 11 Juni 2006 21:28
Torak  
Boyd Bottorff wrote:
>>Matthew Reilly. Hollywood action B-movies in book form. He knows sod all
>>about technical weapons details, the plots are laughable, and one of the
>>books has a guy in an X-15 rocket flying alongside an ICBM to disarm it,
>>but they're bloody good fun.
>
>
> Thank you; I'll give it a try. This may be more brain-dead than I was
> looking for, but at this point, I'm desperate. And it's been long
> enough since I've read anything with the Plan 9 "damn the story, full
> speed ahead" attitude.

I read "Ice Station" first, which is as good a place as any to start. It
should certainly be read before "Area 7", which should in turn be read
before "Scarecrow" (which has possibly the meanest plot twist ever).
Re: Life is a Highway [message #286703 ] So, 11 Juni 2006 22:03
Rocky Frisco  
Anastasia wrote:

> Rocky Frisco wrote:
>
>>Boyd Bottorff wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Anyway... back to the original point... I'm looking for good
>>>escapism. Quality fluff, if you want to call it that.

> <snip>
>
>>At the risk of being ridiculed,

> <point & laugh> You left out Firefly! I ridicule you with vigor and glee!

Fair cop!

>>let me offer the best entertainment
>>in this vein

> no pun intended?

(Wallace voice) Unintended punishment is a speciality of mine. (/Peter
Salis)

>>I've experienced lately, which is the DVD sets of
>>Buffy and Angel. These never cease to amaze me. The combination of
>>absurdity and Whedon's cynical, dark sense of humour makes for at
>>least one laughing fit per episode, sometimes more.

> And Firefly.

Indubitably. I (stand, sit or lie) corrected.

-Rocky
--
O'Toole's Corollary: Murphy was an optimist.
Re: Life is a Highway [message #286798 ] Mo, 12 Juni 2006 00:59
Lesley Weston  
in article 1hgqn1k.17fdz7i1t7iwc8N%bbottorff [at] nomail.com, Boyd Bottorff at
bbottorff [at] nomail.com wrote on 10/06/2006 8:20 PM:


<snip>

> I want a story that doesn't have any pretentions to
> Serious Literature.
>
> Something along the lines of P.G. Wodehouse.
>
> And I am have had the worst time for years of finding a steady supply of
> them.

Tom Holt. Angela Thirkell. H.E. Bates. Nancy Mitford. Evelyn Waugh. I've
just read a lovely book called "Landscape With Dead Dons" by Robert
Robinson, if you like a nice murder.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.
Re: [I] Life is a Highway [message #286799 ] Mo, 12 Juni 2006 01:00
Stacie Hanes  
jester wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Jun 2006 22:27:15 -0700, Julia Jones
> <julia.jones [at] gmail.com> wrote:
> <trim>
>> I'll put you on the beta-reader list for one of my series, shall
>> I? (No, it hasn't got actual gore.)
>
> The gore isn't vidal to the plot then?

I know, OLF, but that deserves public credit. Good 'un.
--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe
Re: Life is a Highway [message #286805 ] Mo, 12 Juni 2006 01:08
Stacie Hanes  
Lesley Weston wrote:
> in article 1hgqn1k.17fdz7i1t7iwc8N%bbottorff [at] nomail.com, Boyd
> Bottorff at bbottorff [at] nomail.com wrote on 10/06/2006 8:20 PM:
>
>
> <snip>
>
>> I want a story that doesn't have any pretentions to
>> Serious Literature.
>>
>> Something along the lines of P.G. Wodehouse.
>>
>> And I am have had the worst time for years of finding a steady
>> supply of them.
>
> Evelyn Waugh.

You're putting HIM in casual reading? Only read one, but that's not where
I'd put it.


--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe
Re: Life is a Highway [message #286806 ] Mo, 12 Juni 2006 01:13
Orjan Westin  
Boyd Bottorff wrote:
> Any ideas on where I can find basic escapism these days? Stuff that
> you might not remember reading a month later, but you enjoyed at the
> time? Anyone? Anyone?...

In fantasy, David Eddings and Raymond Feist (the early works of both)
are rather good fluff and escapism.

George McDonald Fraser's books, especially the ones about Flashman, are
good yarns, and even though you learn a lot about history in Victorian
times you never really notice.

Carl Hiassen is also fun, and while there's a lot of references to sex
in most of them, it's not something that's is presented as important to
relationships, but treated with a lot of humour.

Both Fraser and Hiassen are authors Terry has said he buys unseen, by
the way.

Ellis Peters' Cadfael novels are also good fun - goodnatured medieval
whodunnits.

Bernard Cornwell writes good stories too, albeit with a little too much
attention to military matters for those completely uninterested in such.
Check his Grail Quest series of three books in particular.

HTH.

Orjan
--
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
http://tale.cunobaros.com/
Fiction, Thoughts and Software
http://www.cunobaros.com/
Re: Life is a Highway [message #286821 ] Mo, 12 Juni 2006 02:24
Torak  
Anastasia wrote:
> Lesley Weston wrote:
>
>>in article 1hgqn1k.17fdz7i1t7iwc8N%bbottorff [at] nomail.com, Boyd
>>Bottorff at bbottorff [at] nomail.com wrote on 10/06/2006 8:20 PM:
>>
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>> I want a story that doesn't have any pretentions to
>>>Serious Literature.
>>>
>>>Something along the lines of P.G. Wodehouse.
>>>
>>>And I am have had the worst time for years of finding a steady
>>>supply of them.
>>
>> Evelyn Waugh.
>
>
> You're putting HIM in casual reading? Only read one, but that's not where
> I'd put it.

The Loved One. Marvellously funny, if approached from the right angle.

And possibly the cleverest, sneakiest and simultaneously most obvious
bit of foreshadowing in literary history.
Re: Life is a Highway [message #286843 ] Mo, 12 Juni 2006 04:08
bbottorff  
Thank you for the suggestions. They're very appreciated.

> Carl Hiassen is also fun, and while there's a lot of references to sex
> in most of them, it's not something that's is presented as important to
> relationships, but treated with a lot of humour.

I think I phrased the original post poorly, guessing by how people
responded. I'm not opposed to sex in general, it's just that I've seen
too many authors recently who don't seem to have any understanding of
how people work together-- how they interact.

One of the common symptoms of this are books where all the characters
seem to have this inability to be together for any length of time
without sex becoming involved. Yeah, there are people like this. But
not everyone, and it ruins the book, to me, at least, when everyone
seems to have the same values.
Re: Life is a Highway [message #286871 ] Mo, 12 Juni 2006 05:50
geminii  
On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 22:59:37 GMT, Lesley Weston
<brightly_coloured_blob [at] yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>Evelyn Waugh.

Ah yes. Brings to mind the reason why the last nuclear weapon on Earth was
disguised as a bust of Evelyn Waugh.


-SteveD
Re: Life is a Highway [message #286980 ] Mo, 12 Juni 2006 15:33
naomi  
Torak wrote:
> naomi wrote:
>> Torak wrote:
>>
>>> Anastasia wrote:
>>>
>>>> Boyd Bottorff wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And I am have had the worst time for years of finding a steady
>>>>> supply of them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, I like The "Cat Who..." mysteries by Lillian Jackson Braun.
>>>>
>>>> Light detective novels. Also, Catherine Aird. The hero's a real guy,
>>>> nice to be with, they're thin, and just neat.
>>>
>>>
>>> Oh, and the Amelia Peabody books, by Elizabeth Peters.
>>>
>>> Oh, and there are a few books about something called the "disc
>>> world"....
>>>
>>
>> I've just started to read Alexander McCall Smith. He deals with some
>> important themes but in a light way. I like the way he writes
>> descriptively but I know it might annoy some people.
>>
>> So far I've read "The Number One Ladies Detective Agency",
>
> I had trouble with that one. Didn't get more than a few pages. Is it
> worth persevering?
>
>> I find it hard to read new authors.
>
> Try Peters, though. You'll enjoy them, I think.

Mc call Smith seems to warm up as he goes along. I liked Ellis Peters,
but she died.

n
Re: Life is a Highway [message #286985 ] Mo, 12 Juni 2006 15:43
naomi  
Orjan Westin wrote:
> Boyd Bottorff wrote:
>> Any ideas on where I can find basic escapism these days? Stuff that
>> you might not remember reading a month later, but you enjoyed at the
>> time? Anyone? Anyone?...
>
> In fantasy, David Eddings and Raymond Feist (the early works of both)
> are rather good fluff and escapism.
>
> George McDonald Fraser's books, especially the ones about Flashman, are
> good yarns, and even though you learn a lot about history in Victorian
> times you never really notice.
>
> Carl Hiassen is also fun, and while there's a lot of references to sex
> in most of them, it's not something that's is presented as important to
> relationships, but treated with a lot of humour.
>
> Both Fraser and Hiassen are authors Terry has said he buys unseen, by
> the way.
>
> Ellis Peters' Cadfael novels are also good fun - goodnatured medieval
> whodunnits.
>
> Bernard Cornwell writes good stories too, albeit with a little too much
> attention to military matters for those completely uninterested in such.
> Check his Grail Quest series of three books in particular.
>
> HTH.
>
> Orjan

I can second Ellis Peters, Eddings,Feist and Cornwell although I like
his series about Arthur.

I think I'll have to look into your other suggestions Orjan, since I've
read and enjoyed so many of the authors you mentioned ( oh and I hear
that you read books by that fellow Pratchett as well).


naomi
Re: Life is a Highway [message #287084 ] Mo, 12 Juni 2006 20:32
Andrew Nevill  
On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 00:13:36 +0100, "Orjan Westin" <nospam [at] cunobaros.com>
wrote:


>Bernard Cornwell writes good stories too, albeit with a little too much
>attention to military matters for those completely uninterested in such.
>Check his Grail Quest series of three books in particular.

I second this. Cornwell is really good. As well as the Grail Quest, the
Warlord Chronicles (Winter King, Enemy of God and Excalibur) are all
excellent.

He's best known for the Sharpe novels which are consistently good also.
--
Andrew Nevill B.F. D.W. FdV. Reply address: anevill [at] btopenworld.com
AFPWorshipper to Spooky, AFPfiance to Sarah (Nanny Ogg) & A********.
AFPUncle to James Vaughan. You cannot value friends as pennies,
nor can you replace them as easily (Spooky in email, Aug 2001.)
Discworld Convention 2006. 18 - 26 Aug 2006 Hinckley Island Hotel
Hinckley, UK www.dwcon.org
Re: Life is a Highway [message #287117 ] Mo, 12 Juni 2006 21:51
rja.carnegie  
Boyd Bottorff wrote:
> I just saw Cars today. It's a pretty good movie. On the way home,
> though, my wife and I were talking about this and that. One of the
> questions that came up: why are there so few books out any more that
> are just fun? It seems like most of the authors out there do any or all
> of the following:
>
> =B7 Convoluted, Machivellian plots that require a scorecard to keep tabs
> on the players. [1][2]
> =B7 Authors who try to grab you with gore, sadism, or other ickiness.
> [1][3]
> =B7 They're "High Literary" books [1][4]
> =B7 They confuse sex [5] with relationship development [1][6][7]
> =B7 They're high drama books [1][8]
>
> When I was young, I had little problem finding basic escapism. But it's
> gotten harder and harder to find, to the point where I've been having
> trouble finding books that I can even finish the cover blurb on! And my
> list of authors still publishing that I trust has been shrinking smaller
> and smaller, with fewer and fewer new authors going onto the list.
>
> Seeing Cars really made me realize just how much I've been missing. Fun
> story, enough depth and characterization to avoid the "Disney
> cookie-cutter plot and characters[tm]"[9], but still avoided bogging
> down the story. And it was fun. Well done, simple escapism.
>
> Any ideas on where I can find basic escapism these days? Stuff that you
> might not remember reading a month later, but you enjoyed at the time?
> Anyone? Anyone?...

There are heaps of Star Trek, Star Wars, and Doctor Who books that
usually avoid the faults, or rather the characteristics, that you
enumerate - although gore or sex or both may appear in some. Doctor
Who has a fairly high death toll especially, to the point where a TV
story where "Everybody lives!" was noted as remarkable by the
characters themselves. The deaths are often not gory, but it still
wears you down after a while. And many of the books based on
television stories rush through plot at a terrific space. For that
matter, the original Star Trek TV episodes done as short stories are
heavily filed down - but perhaps no worse for that?

Among young adults' books not necessarily of the current age, there of
course are Biggles (pilot's adventures), the likes of the Hardy Boys,
Nancy Drew, which might be difficult to read now, and online for free
you can find several early stories of Tom Swift, boy inventor - of
their time, which turns out to be quite a long while ago.

I should not miss an opportunity to recommend the webcomic at
http://www.girlgenius.net/ , and I've enjoyed Harry Potter, but his
story is increasingly dark and depressing and a book away from being
finished. I feel that a payoff is required that must be excellent, and
it could fall flat instead. For that matter, Philip Pullman's "His
Dark Materials" didn't work for me in the end, although the first book
was memorably dark. I haven't looked at his other books for young
readers; I think they got a lift from the publicity for the big series.

Jane Austen can be fun, and relatively un-gory. Her heroines
occasionally are startled by farm dogs or gypsies.

And of course there's that fellow Pratchett, but you may have come
across him already :-)
Re: Life is a Highway [message #287120 ] Mo, 12 Juni 2006 21:57
Stacie Hanes  
Robert Carnegie wrote:

> Jane Austen can be fun, and relatively un-gory. Her heroines

Relative to WHAT, Sesame Street? The worst that happens in a Jane Austen
novel is a sprained ankle.

--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe
Re: Life is a Highway [message #287150 ] Mo, 12 Juni 2006 23:09
Thomas Zahr  
naomi posted:

....

> I can second Ellis Peters, Eddings,Feist and Cornwell
> although I like his series about Arthur.

....

Potentially Dick Francis, Len Deighton, etc. Especially
Deighton wrote some really funny ones as well, apart from a
good cookery book.

--
Ciao

Thomas =:-)
<what a waste>
Re: Life is a Highway [message #287151 ] Mo, 12 Juni 2006 23:19
Romeo  
Thomas Zahr wrote:
> naomi posted:
> ...
>
>> I can second Ellis Peters, Eddings,Feist and Cornwell
>> although I like his series about Arthur.
> ...
>
> Potentially Dick Francis, Len Deighton, etc.

I used to read Dick Francis when I was younger. Good, fast reads.

There's one I'll have to look up, it's not a cookery book, but by a chef who
travels all over the world in search of new food experiences. I'll see if I
can . . .

Aha. _A Cook's Tour_ by Anthony Bourdain.

Romeo
--
Never avert your eyes - Kurosawa
Re: Life is a Highway [message #287257 ] Di, 13 Juni 2006 05:10
bbottorff  
> There are heaps of Star Trek, Star Wars, and Doctor Who books that
> usually avoid the faults, or rather the characteristics, that you
> enumerate - although gore or sex or both may appear in some.

Well, as I mentioned elsewhere, I'm not really opposed to sex, or gore
for that matter-- I'm just incredibly weary of authors trying to make
either or both their selling point.

Unfortunately, I have a difficult time with most liscensed series books.

> I should not miss an opportunity to recommend the webcomic at
> http://www.girlgenius.net/

I'm a regular follower. I also follow various manga.

> Jane Austen can be fun, and relatively un-gory. Her heroines
> occasionally are startled by farm dogs or gypsies.

I've read some of her stuff.

> And of course there's that fellow Pratchett, but you may have come
> across him already :-)

Yeah. He nicely manages to appeal to both my fluffy side and my deep
side at the same time.
Re: Life is a Highway [message #287279 ] Di, 13 Juni 2006 06:40
Lesley Weston  
in article In1jg.11913$921.5850 [at] newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net, Anastasia
at house_damodred [at] yahoo.com wrote on 11/06/2006 4:08 PM:

> Lesley Weston wrote:
>> in article 1hgqn1k.17fdz7i1t7iwc8N%bbottorff [at] nomail.com, Boyd
>> Bottorff at bbottorff [at] nomail.com wrote on 10/06/2006 8:20 PM:
>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> I want a story that doesn't have any pretentions to
>>> Serious Literature.
>>>
>>> Something along the lines of P.G. Wodehouse.
>>>
>>> And I am have had the worst time for years of finding a steady
>>> supply of them.
>>
>> Evelyn Waugh.
>
> You're putting HIM in casual reading? Only read one, but that's not where
> I'd put it.

Which one? I might have a distorted view of him. I first read "Decline and
Fall" and "Vile Bodies" as a child, so I got the humour and the
non-sequiters and the cynicism, but missed other things that I did get when
I re-read them as an adult. His style is like the finest silk, really smooth
and easy, so his work goes down without any difficulty, and he is *really*
funny, at least in the earlier ones. "Brideshead Revisited" belongs in a
different category, along with the "Sword of Honour" trilogy, and I guess
his writing became increasingly serious as his life progressed [1], so
perhaps the trick is to read his work in chronological order.

[1] Not unlike Our Favourite Author.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.
Vorheriges Thema:[I] Birthdays!!!!
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