Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness

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Miscellaneous / Verschiedenes » alt.tv.simpsons » Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness

Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness [message #284173]

Di, 13 Juni 2006 13:46

animalrightsandfreedo

Recent research has shown that the average lifespans of domesticated
animals are up to 4 years less than those of their feral counterparts.
The findings of this research highlight the hypocrisy and selfishness
of pet owners - that these so-called animal lovers brutally and
callously cut short the lives of their four-legged companions.

Adequacy.org spoke to the scientist behind the research and asked, what
can be done to rectify this widespread and socially acceptable form of
barbarism?

The findings of this research, published in the June issue of the
Journal of the American Association of Veterinary Science and
Associated Professions, are an unequivocal condemnation of pet owners.
The facts, presented below, make chilling reading. For example, the
average lifespan of a domesticated dog is four years less than that of
a similar dog living in the wild.

Species Domesticated Lifespan (years) Feral Lifespan (years)
Cat 16 19
Dog 12 16
Fish 5 6
Hamster 2 2
Horse 25 29
Rabbit 10 12
Comparative Lifespans of Domesticated and Feral Animals

Dr. Victor O'Neill, the author of this work and a veterinary surgeon
for over 25 years, explained that several factors are responsible for
foreshortening the lives of domesticated animals.

"Firstly, animals reared in a domestic environment are not exposed to
the same pathogens during infancy as wild animals. Therefore, the
immune systems of domesticated animals do not develop properly, which
leads to a reduced resistance to disease in adulthood."

"However, the main reason for these disturbing findings is that animals
do not adapt to domestic life. Animals are simply unhappy when sharing
a habitat with humans. Humans attempt to impose their value system upon
animals and then punish the animals should they transgress this
arbitrary set of rules of which they have no comprehension. These
animals, enslaved by human tyrants, eventually lose the will to live,
which results in their premature deaths."

Following the publication of his research, O'Neill has formed a
pressure group to lobby for a change in the law, outlawing pet
ownership. In the short term, O'Neill believes that a change in
people's attitudes is necessary.

"Currently, pet ownership is seen as a harmless hobby and people are
dependant on their companion animals. However, this research has shown
that pet ownership is anything but harmless. People need to realise
that it is a cruel institution that must be stopped."

"There are many parallels between pet ownership and the practice of
slavery that was widespread in the United States of America during the
early part of the last century. Nowadays, the ownership of slaves is
socially unacceptable and is rightly acknowledged as a barbaric
practice. Pet ownership is exactly the same. I hope that people will
come to realise that keeping domesticated animals is morally
indefensible and that society will ostracize pet owners."

However, O'Neill's viewpoint has been controversial and unpopular.

"I have recieved innumerable death threats from pet owners. On one
occassion my eight year-old daughter was kidnapped and physically
assaulted by an enraged pet owner. Animal lovers are notorious for
their emotional instability and they rely on their pet animals as a
substitute for normal human relationships. My proposals to remove their
emotional safety net are anathema to them and it is hardly surprising
to see such an irrational reaction."

It is truly inspiring to meet a man such as O'Neill who is willing to
risk his personal safety in the fight for a righteous cause. It is
indisputable that pet ownership is a vile practice. Humanity will only
ever be able to consider itself an advanced civilisation when it
outlaws this cruel institution and treats the lesser species with
proper respect.

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness [message #284174 ]

Di, 13 Juni 2006 14:28

Frank from Deeetroit

The study makes no mention on how getting hit by a car significantly
shortens the life span of these furry creatures.

Frank "I love animals, medium rare, with ketchup" from Deeeetroit

<animalrightsandfreedom12345 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1150199180.157351.126520 [at] y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Recent research has shown that the average lifespans of domesticated
> animals are up to 4 years less than those of their feral counterparts.
> The findings of this research highlight the hypocrisy and selfishness
> of pet owners - that these so-called animal lovers brutally and
> callously cut short the lives of their four-legged companions.
>
> Adequacy.org spoke to the scientist behind the research and asked, what
> can be done to rectify this widespread and socially acceptable form of
> barbarism?
>
> The findings of this research, published in the June issue of the
> Journal of the American Association of Veterinary Science and
> Associated Professions, are an unequivocal condemnation of pet owners.
> The facts, presented below, make chilling reading. For example, the
> average lifespan of a domesticated dog is four years less than that of
> a similar dog living in the wild.
>
> Species Domesticated Lifespan (years) Feral Lifespan (years)
> Cat 16 19
> Dog 12 16
> Fish 5 6
> Hamster 2 2
> Horse 25 29
> Rabbit 10 12
> Comparative Lifespans of Domesticated and Feral Animals
>
> Dr. Victor O'Neill, the author of this work and a veterinary surgeon
> for over 25 years, explained that several factors are responsible for
> foreshortening the lives of domesticated animals.
>
> "Firstly, animals reared in a domestic environment are not exposed to
> the same pathogens during infancy as wild animals. Therefore, the
> immune systems of domesticated animals do not develop properly, which
> leads to a reduced resistance to disease in adulthood."
>
> "However, the main reason for these disturbing findings is that animals
> do not adapt to domestic life. Animals are simply unhappy when sharing
> a habitat with humans. Humans attempt to impose their value system upon
> animals and then punish the animals should they transgress this
> arbitrary set of rules of which they have no comprehension. These
> animals, enslaved by human tyrants, eventually lose the will to live,
> which results in their premature deaths."
>
> Following the publication of his research, O'Neill has formed a
> pressure group to lobby for a change in the law, outlawing pet
> ownership. In the short term, O'Neill believes that a change in
> people's attitudes is necessary.
>
> "Currently, pet ownership is seen as a harmless hobby and people are
> dependant on their companion animals. However, this research has shown
> that pet ownership is anything but harmless. People need to realise
> that it is a cruel institution that must be stopped."
>
> "There are many parallels between pet ownership and the practice of
> slavery that was widespread in the United States of America during the
> early part of the last century. Nowadays, the ownership of slaves is
> socially unacceptable and is rightly acknowledged as a barbaric
> practice. Pet ownership is exactly the same. I hope that people will
> come to realise that keeping domesticated animals is morally
> indefensible and that society will ostracize pet owners."
>
> However, O'Neill's viewpoint has been controversial and unpopular.
>
> "I have recieved innumerable death threats from pet owners. On one
> occassion my eight year-old daughter was kidnapped and physically
> assaulted by an enraged pet owner. Animal lovers are notorious for
> their emotional instability and they rely on their pet animals as a
> substitute for normal human relationships. My proposals to remove their
> emotional safety net are anathema to them and it is hardly surprising
> to see such an irrational reaction."
>
> It is truly inspiring to meet a man such as O'Neill who is willing to
> risk his personal safety in the fight for a righteous cause. It is
> indisputable that pet ownership is a vile practice. Humanity will only
> ever be able to consider itself an advanced civilisation when it
> outlaws this cruel institution and treats the lesser species with
> proper respect.
>

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness [message #284175 ]

Di, 13 Juni 2006 14:33

Badass Scotsman

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness [message #284182 ]

Di, 13 Juni 2006 18:10

fred

This nothing but a bald-faced lie! It's a proven fact animals
in zoos live far longer than their wild counterparts. Feral animals
don't have access to medical care or steady food, so their life spans
are naturally shorter. If the animal rights crowd has to stoop to lies
to get their message out, they must be getting desperate.

Frederick J. Barnett http://www.eatel.net/~fred/
"Someone's got to take the responsibility if the job's going to get done!! Do you think that's easy?!" Gregory Peck - The Guns Of Navarone

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness [message #284187 ]

Di, 13 Juni 2006 19:38

profjohnfrink

Frederick J. Barnett wrote:
> This nothing but a bald-faced lie! It's a proven fact animals
> in zoos live far longer than their wild counterparts. Feral animals
> don't have access to medical care or steady food, so their life spans
> are naturally shorter. If the animal rights crowd has to stoop to lies
> to get their message out, they must be getting desperate.
>
> Frederick J. Barnett http://www.eatel.net/~fred/
> "Someone's got to take the responsibility if the job's going to get done!! Do you think that's easy?!" Gregory Peck - The Guns Of Navarone

What about Stinky and Wrinkles? And Superdude? And Humphrey Boa-Gart?

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness - Two words for the Author of this story: Spell Checke [message #284197 ]

Di, 13 Juni 2006 22:45

LeatherBoy

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness -

Two words for the Author of this story:

Spell Checker!

How the hell does he expect to be taken seriously?

I don't have the desire to read any more of his writtings, but I am curious
if they are all as bad?

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness [message #284198 ]

Di, 13 Juni 2006 22:52

SimRacer

<animalrightsandfreedom12345 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1150199180.157351.126520 [at] y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Recent research has shown that the average lifespans of domesticated
> animals are up to 4 years less than those of their feral counterparts.
> The findings of this research highlight the hypocrisy and selfishness
> of pet owners - that these so-called animal lovers brutally and
> callously cut short the lives of their four-legged companions.
>
> Adequacy.org spoke to the scientist behind the research and asked, what
> can be done to rectify this widespread and socially acceptable form of
> barbarism?
>
> The findings of this research, published in the June issue of the
> Journal of the American Association of Veterinary Science and
> Associated Professions, are an unequivocal condemnation of pet owners.
> The facts, presented below, make chilling reading. For example, the
> average lifespan of a domesticated dog is four years less than that of
> a similar dog living in the wild.
>
> Species Domesticated Lifespan (years) Feral Lifespan (years)
> Cat 16 19
> Dog 12 16
> Fish 5 6
> Hamster 2 2
> Horse 25 29
> Rabbit 10 12
> Comparative Lifespans of Domesticated and Feral Animals
>
> Dr. Victor O'Neill, the author of this work and a veterinary surgeon
> for over 25 years, explained that several factors are responsible for
> foreshortening the lives of domesticated animals.
>
> "Firstly, animals reared in a domestic environment are not exposed to
> the same pathogens during infancy as wild animals. Therefore, the
> immune systems of domesticated animals do not develop properly, which
> leads to a reduced resistance to disease in adulthood."
>
> "However, the main reason for these disturbing findings is that animals
> do not adapt to domestic life. Animals are simply unhappy when sharing
> a habitat with humans. Humans attempt to impose their value system upon
> animals and then punish the animals should they transgress this
> arbitrary set of rules of which they have no comprehension. These
> animals, enslaved by human tyrants, eventually lose the will to live,
> which results in their premature deaths."
>
> Following the publication of his research, O'Neill has formed a
> pressure group to lobby for a change in the law, outlawing pet
> ownership. In the short term, O'Neill believes that a change in
> people's attitudes is necessary.
>
> "Currently, pet ownership is seen as a harmless hobby and people are
> dependant on their companion animals. However, this research has shown
> that pet ownership is anything but harmless. People need to realise
> that it is a cruel institution that must be stopped."
>
> "There are many parallels between pet ownership and the practice of
> slavery that was widespread in the United States of America during the
> early part of the last century. Nowadays, the ownership of slaves is
> socially unacceptable and is rightly acknowledged as a barbaric
> practice. Pet ownership is exactly the same. I hope that people will
> come to realise that keeping domesticated animals is morally
> indefensible and that society will ostracize pet owners."
>
> However, O'Neill's viewpoint has been controversial and unpopular.
>
> "I have recieved innumerable death threats from pet owners. On one
> occassion my eight year-old daughter was kidnapped and physically
> assaulted by an enraged pet owner. Animal lovers are notorious for
> their emotional instability and they rely on their pet animals as a
> substitute for normal human relationships. My proposals to remove their
> emotional safety net are anathema to them and it is hardly surprising
> to see such an irrational reaction."
>
> It is truly inspiring to meet a man such as O'Neill who is willing to
> risk his personal safety in the fight for a righteous cause. It is
> indisputable that pet ownership is a vile practice. Humanity will only
> ever be able to consider itself an advanced civilisation when it
> outlaws this cruel institution and treats the lesser species with
> proper respect.
>

Tell all this drivel to my 2 "mutt" (read: non purebred) house cats. Came
from a local farm litter about 5 years ago. They're the only 2 left alive
out of the entire litter AND their parents. Yeah, living out in the wild is
*much* better. Right. Uh-huh, got ya.

They seem to have adjusted to filtered drinking water, a regular diet and
relatively stable climate just fine. Their siblings and parents are dead and
were unavailable for comment...

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness [message #284199 ]

Di, 13 Juni 2006 23:12

CHRIS

"Frank from Deeetroit" <dadurweird [at] voyager.net> wrote in message
news:6NCdnePht_bsMhPZnZ2dnUVZ_oydnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
> The study makes no mention on how getting hit by a car significantly
> shortens the life span of these furry creatures.

What study? I see no mention of it here
http://avmajournals.avma.org/toc/javma/228/11;jsessionid=oCWVOq54d6rgQz9opV
It might be the letter to the editor.. or it might be bullshit.

>
> Frank "I love animals, medium rare, with ketchup" from Deeeetroit
>
>
> <animalrightsandfreedom12345 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1150199180.157351.126520 [at] y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> Recent research has shown that the average lifespans of domesticated
>> animals are up to 4 years less than those of their feral counterparts.
>> The findings of this research highlight the hypocrisy and selfishness
>> of pet owners - that these so-called animal lovers brutally and
>> callously cut short the lives of their four-legged companions.
>>
>> Adequacy.org spoke to the scientist behind the research and asked, what
>> can be done to rectify this widespread and socially acceptable form of
>> barbarism?
>>
>> The findings of this research, published in the June issue of the
>> Journal of the American Association of Veterinary Science and
>> Associated Professions, are an unequivocal condemnation of pet owners.
>> The facts, presented below, make chilling reading. For example, the
>> average lifespan of a domesticated dog is four years less than that of
>> a similar dog living in the wild.
>>
>> Species Domesticated Lifespan (years) Feral Lifespan (years)
>> Cat 16 19
>> Dog 12 16
>> Fish 5 6
>> Hamster 2 2
>> Horse 25 29
>> Rabbit 10 12
>> Comparative Lifespans of Domesticated and Feral Animals
>>
>> Dr. Victor O'Neill, the author of this work and a veterinary surgeon
>> for over 25 years, explained that several factors are responsible for
>> foreshortening the lives of domesticated animals.
>>
>> "Firstly, animals reared in a domestic environment are not exposed to
>> the same pathogens during infancy as wild animals. Therefore, the
>> immune systems of domesticated animals do not develop properly, which
>> leads to a reduced resistance to disease in adulthood."
>>
>> "However, the main reason for these disturbing findings is that animals
>> do not adapt to domestic life. Animals are simply unhappy when sharing
>> a habitat with humans. Humans attempt to impose their value system upon
>> animals and then punish the animals should they transgress this
>> arbitrary set of rules of which they have no comprehension. These
>> animals, enslaved by human tyrants, eventually lose the will to live,
>> which results in their premature deaths."
>>
>> Following the publication of his research, O'Neill has formed a
>> pressure group to lobby for a change in the law, outlawing pet
>> ownership. In the short term, O'Neill believes that a change in
>> people's attitudes is necessary.
>>
>> "Currently, pet ownership is seen as a harmless hobby and people are
>> dependant on their companion animals. However, this research has shown
>> that pet ownership is anything but harmless. People need to realise
>> that it is a cruel institution that must be stopped."
>>
>> "There are many parallels between pet ownership and the practice of
>> slavery that was widespread in the United States of America during the
>> early part of the last century. Nowadays, the ownership of slaves is
>> socially unacceptable and is rightly acknowledged as a barbaric
>> practice. Pet ownership is exactly the same. I hope that people will
>> come to realise that keeping domesticated animals is morally
>> indefensible and that society will ostracize pet owners."
>>
>> However, O'Neill's viewpoint has been controversial and unpopular.
>>
>> "I have recieved innumerable death threats from pet owners. On one
>> occassion my eight year-old daughter was kidnapped and physically
>> assaulted by an enraged pet owner. Animal lovers are notorious for
>> their emotional instability and they rely on their pet animals as a
>> substitute for normal human relationships. My proposals to remove their
>> emotional safety net are anathema to them and it is hardly surprising
>> to see such an irrational reaction."
>>
>> It is truly inspiring to meet a man such as O'Neill who is willing to
>> risk his personal safety in the fight for a righteous cause. It is
>> indisputable that pet ownership is a vile practice. Humanity will only
>> ever be able to consider itself an advanced civilisation when it
>> outlaws this cruel institution and treats the lesser species with
>> proper respect.
>>
>
>

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness [message #284200 ]

Mi, 14 Juni 2006 00:04

TaraG

"Dutch" <no [at] email.com> wrote in message
news:128uai42gefle6a [at] news.supernews.com...
>
> "Frank from Deeetroit" <dadurweird [at] voyager.net> wrote in message
> news:6NCdnePht_bsMhPZnZ2dnUVZ_oydnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
>> The study makes no mention on how getting hit by a car significantly
>> shortens the life span of these furry creatures.
>
> What study? I see no mention of it here
> http://avmajournals.avma.org/toc/javma/228/11;jsessionid=oCWVOq54d6rgQz9opV
> It might be the letter to the editor.. or it might be bullshit.

Checked the adequacy website, and found that along with (non fact checked)
articles contributed by readers on the topic of proof of alien life on other
planets (as proved in scripture), this article was in fact posted around 5
years ago- with no citations. A quick google showed no such Journal of the
American Association of Veterinary Science and Associated Professions, and
no references to Dr. Victor O'Neill that didn't ultimately lead back to this
article as the source of his name.

This is nonsense. Last I heard, the average life span of feral domesticated
cats was way below 10 years of age, nowhere *near* 19.

Whoever suggested the sockpuppet makes sense. Sounds like something he would
say.

Tara

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness [message #284207 ]

Mi, 14 Juni 2006 01:41

gary.wallace

So that is what happened to Snowball! Oh no, does that mean Bart's elephant
is dead, too?
But how do you explain SLH? That is one old cartoon dog! But then again
Poochie is gone - perhaps killed by rap musicians? Would rappers live longer
in the wild?
Thank you for posting this stupid crap to a.t.s. As the name suggests, we
are only here to read horribly wrong information about pets!
Thanks again!
"See my vest, see my vest, made from real gorilla chest!"
They are easier to shoot in captivity. So maybe...... Naw.

Gary

PS - you should never use ketchup on a fine feral steak.
--
The Source For Premium Newsgroup Access
Great Speed, Great Retention
1 GB/Day for only $8.95

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness [message #284212 ]

Mi, 14 Juni 2006 02:03

Dave

TaraG wrote:
> "Dutch" <no [at] email.com> wrote in message
> news:128uai42gefle6a [at] news.supernews.com...
> >
> > "Frank from Deeetroit" <dadurweird [at] voyager.net> wrote in message
> > news:6NCdnePht_bsMhPZnZ2dnUVZ_oydnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
> >> The study makes no mention on how getting hit by a car significantly
> >> shortens the life span of these furry creatures.
> >
> > What study? I see no mention of it here
> > http://avmajournals.avma.org/toc/javma/228/11;jsessionid=oCWVOq54d6rgQz9opV
> > It might be the letter to the editor.. or it might be bullshit.
>
> Checked the adequacy website, and found that along with (non fact checked)
> articles contributed by readers on the topic of proof of alien life on other
> planets (as proved in scripture), this article was in fact posted around 5
> years ago- with no citations. A quick google showed no such Journal of the
> American Association of Veterinary Science and Associated Professions, and
> no references to Dr. Victor O'Neill that didn't ultimately lead back to this
> article as the source of his name.
>
> This is nonsense. Last I heard, the average life span of feral domesticated
> cats was way below 10 years of age, nowhere *near* 19.

It does seem a tad credulous to accept without proper citations that a
pet
provided with a steady supply of food, medical care and protection from

predators would have a shorter life expectancy than a wild animal.

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness - Two words for the Author of this story: Spell Checker [message #284231 ]

Mi, 14 Juni 2006 09:57

javagsd

pup E. wrote:

> I don't have the desire to read any more of his writtings, but I am curious
> if they are all as bad?

Yes

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness [message #284234 ]

Mi, 14 Juni 2006 13:30

chico chupacabra

"Badass Scotsman" <badass-scotsman [at] aye.net> wrote:

> I own 3 cats, a cockatoo and an African grey parrot.

That doesn't make you a badass. Quite the opposite.

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness [message #284235 ]

Mi, 14 Juni 2006 13:36

Badass Scotsman

> That doesn't make you a badass. Quite the opposite.

I know, im not really badass. It's my Xbox Live gamertag, and I like to
think of myself as a bit of a badass when destroying Aliens or bad guys
online!

Gary.

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness [message #284247 ]

Mi, 14 Juni 2006 23:30

Leif Erikson

animalrightsandfreedom12345 [at] yahoo.com wrote:

> Recent research has shown [bullshit]

Fuck off. You copied-and-pasted a big steaming load of
five-year-old SHIT from an amateurish, crappy,
extremist "ar" web site. There is *no* such journal,
*no* such organization.

You fuckwit.

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness [message #284277 ]

Do, 15 Juni 2006 21:23

showdogbark

This post did not post in the correct order so here it is again,
Hi Les Hilliard,
Concerning the specific topic of ferile dogs and cats in the country, I

do have experience on that one. Many dog and cat owners do drop offs
and the animals become shy from being abandoned. So trying to give them

food and shelter does not often work. So over time I do get to know
these animals. One dog around here who hangs out with the wolves and
comes down to the small town of 223 people comes to take the at large
dogs out for a wild run around the area and play. I call her Bower. She

will go swimming in the coldest iciest snowiest winter and shake and
smile. Then she will brush up against my coat to get her smell on me.
Since I walk way into the woods other dogs that are at large will come
and sniff me where Bower left her sent mark.
After a year of knowing her she once did come with much coaxing to my
door where I gave her a piece of whole wheat toast, she took it and ran

off with it and I followed her. She gave it to a pup that was on a
tether. Then she went to see an old dog that is arthritic and got him
to run with her around the park, when they were done she ran back to
his house to make sure he made it back home.
There are many cats around here who have been abandoned or dropped of
by owners who are ferile. They hide out in different places every night

and hunt mice and birds. When given food some will take it others not
preferring the wild food they gather themselves. Some are starving and
mangy and those ones people catch and find homes for. Usually the
starving ones are kittens, interestingly enough we had one in our
garage that we could not catch as she would take off at the sound of
footsteps. Every night however a big tom cat would go in and see her
and bring her some food even though she was not in heat. We finally did

catch her and went to the local hardware store to find out where the
S.P.C.A. was and a man who had lost his cat to old age said I will take

her and she is the most happy well loved little princess.
There was a border collie in a town I lived in that was ferile. She was

known to take dogs at large and have them disappear into the forest.
When the forest ranger checked this out he found the collars of the
dogs near bones. It was concluded that the dog was taking up stray dogs

to the wolves and coyotes and sharing the kill with them. She would
come down and hang around and run as if she was having fun with the
dogs and as soon as a person turned their back there would go the dog
with the missing border collie also. The S.P.C.A. got a hold of her
with much trouble in catching her and found her a home in the country.
I hear she stays home some of the time and the rest of the time she
takes off to be with her wild friends she made in the forest there. Now

this is unusual as wolves would normally eat the border collie yet she
knew how to live with them in lean times by bringing them dogs and
sharing the food.
She was always soaking wet from the rain and snow but did not mind. Her

coat was very thick as she never was indoors so she did not shed her
winter coat as most indoor dogs do.
Now it takes allot of cunning to not be eaten by the coyotes that come
into small towns and so it was with a cat some friends had. She was
ferile and would not make contact with them for a couple of years. She
would sleep under their house now and then. Slowly she would come and
see them and over time accepted their food. Well she almost died from
the cat food. Many trips to the vet later he recommended they let her
stay in the house if she wanted as she had started doing that but to
only feed her raw meat as she was not used to commercial cat food. They

did not do this and so the cat was so sick she was on deaths door when
a neighbor said they would bring over raw meat for the cat. The people
were vegetarians and did not wish to handle raw meat.
Well this cat became a philanthropist. Nijma was her name and she would

eat her food in the morning and then head off for her daily rounds. She

went to see every old person in the small town where they moved to from

the wild where they had been living when they first came across Nijma.
She went first to see John Greenan a man who was 95 years old and loved

to walk with her. By the way he lived till he was a hundred and one,
why-- because he walked four times a day and would declare to any one
who would listen and we all did " Why am I so lucky to live here and be

blessed with such beauty to walk in every day"
Then after John she would go and see old Molly who was house bound from

arthritis and she would visit there for a few hours and made Molly's
day be full of love and company. After that she finished the rest of
her rounds of the elderly and disabled and then go home for the night
to more raw meat and a sleep near the wood heater.
When she became old herself, Nijma decided to go back to the wild after

her friends John and Molly died. We would see her here and there but no

one could catch her. She had gone back to her own and that would be
mother nature and the wild of the forest. The owners were heart broken
and had everyone who saw here try and catch her, but to no avail Nijma
had made up her mind that she would spend her old age in the wild like
she had started by most likely a drop off of some unwanted kittens and
against all odds she made it in the wild as a kitten and as a grand old

lady cat.
I agree with you Les. Peace begins within a person and then it spills
out of us into the rest of the world. Hopefully there will be a
Hundredth Monkey affect and the rest of the world will take the gift of

life and treat it as that, like John Greenan made people fall in love
with life and it had a ripple affect even on a cat.
Many ferile dogs and cats are eaten by the coyotes and wolves and so I
would not know how they fare in the country as most dogs are not like
Bower who I do not know what she eats, as she is too wild to keep up
with. But she shares and socializes with the dogs who are left lonely
in their yards. When I am really lucky Bower will run with my and
disappear and come back during one of my daily walks. It feels like I
have been with an angel when Bower graces me with her leap into the
freezing cold lake in the middle of December and then smiles and takes
off again.
The ducks get a kick out of her as we have many ducks and geese that
stay for the winter.
Well Les, it is time for one of my twice a day or more walks out in the

wild so I am off to see what birds , ducks or dogs and cats will be my
companions on my walk. Did I mention the deer come out at nights in the

winter and they let me come as close as a few feet from them There is a

family of 7 who come into town late in the winter and spring. I follow
their footprints and they will play with me and come around to where I
have followed them and come near me and we stand there and look at each

other, soul to soul. I would not recommend this to people who do not
get to know the deer as they can take their front feet and do serious
harm by trampling. They know the difference between friend and foe, It
does take time however.
As I said before the first Nations really knew and still do the wisdom
of animals.
Nice talking with you Les. I like your gentle nature.
Show Dog Bark
Be Good Do Good Be One

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness [message #284278 ]

Do, 15 Juni 2006 21:55

pearl

"showdogbark" <jotnaringin [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1150399411.297087.307710 [at] f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> This post did not post in the correct order so here it is again,
> Hi Les Hilliard,
> Concerning the specific topic of ferile dogs and cats in the country, I
>
> do have experience on that one. Many dog and cat owners do drop offs
> and the animals become shy from being abandoned. So trying to give them
>
> food and shelter does not often work. So over time I do get to know
> these animals. One dog around here who hangs out with the wolves and
> comes down to the small town of 223 people comes to take the at large
> dogs out for a wild run around the area and play. I call her Bower. She
>
> will go swimming in the coldest iciest snowiest winter and shake and
> smile. Then she will brush up against my coat to get her smell on me.
> Since I walk way into the woods other dogs that are at large will come
> and sniff me where Bower left her sent mark.
> After a year of knowing her she once did come with much coaxing to my
> door where I gave her a piece of whole wheat toast, she took it and ran
>
> off with it and I followed her. She gave it to a pup that was on a
> tether. Then she went to see an old dog that is arthritic and got him
> to run with her around the park, when they were done she ran back to
> his house to make sure he made it back home.
> There are many cats around here who have been abandoned or dropped of
> by owners who are ferile. They hide out in different places every night
>
> and hunt mice and birds. When given food some will take it others not
> preferring the wild food they gather themselves. Some are starving and
> mangy and those ones people catch and find homes for. Usually the
> starving ones are kittens, interestingly enough we had one in our
> garage that we could not catch as she would take off at the sound of
> footsteps. Every night however a big tom cat would go in and see her
> and bring her some food even though she was not in heat. We finally did
>
> catch her and went to the local hardware store to find out where the
> S.P.C.A. was and a man who had lost his cat to old age said I will take
>
> her and she is the most happy well loved little princess.
> There was a border collie in a town I lived in that was ferile. She was
>
> known to take dogs at large and have them disappear into the forest.
> When the forest ranger checked this out he found the collars of the
> dogs near bones. It was concluded that the dog was taking up stray dogs
>
> to the wolves and coyotes and sharing the kill with them. She would
> come down and hang around and run as if she was having fun with the
> dogs and as soon as a person turned their back there would go the dog
> with the missing border collie also. The S.P.C.A. got a hold of her
> with much trouble in catching her and found her a home in the country.
> I hear she stays home some of the time and the rest of the time she
> takes off to be with her wild friends she made in the forest there. Now
>
> this is unusual as wolves would normally eat the border collie yet she
> knew how to live with them in lean times by bringing them dogs and
> sharing the food.
> She was always soaking wet from the rain and snow but did not mind. Her
>
> coat was very thick as she never was indoors so she did not shed her
> winter coat as most indoor dogs do.
> Now it takes allot of cunning to not be eaten by the coyotes that come
> into small towns and so it was with a cat some friends had. She was
> ferile and would not make contact with them for a couple of years. She
> would sleep under their house now and then. Slowly she would come and
> see them and over time accepted their food. Well she almost died from
> the cat food. Many trips to the vet later he recommended they let her
> stay in the house if she wanted as she had started doing that but to
> only feed her raw meat as she was not used to commercial cat food. They
>
> did not do this and so the cat was so sick she was on deaths door when
> a neighbor said they would bring over raw meat for the cat. The people
> were vegetarians and did not wish to handle raw meat.
> Well this cat became a philanthropist. Nijma was her name and she would
>
> eat her food in the morning and then head off for her daily rounds. She
>
> went to see every old person in the small town where they moved to from
>
> the wild where they had been living when they first came across Nijma.
> She went first to see John Greenan a man who was 95 years old and loved
>
> to walk with her. By the way he lived till he was a hundred and one,
> why-- because he walked four times a day and would declare to any one
> who would listen and we all did " Why am I so lucky to live here and be
>
> blessed with such beauty to walk in every day"
> Then after John she would go and see old Molly who was house bound from
>
> arthritis and she would visit there for a few hours and made Molly's
> day be full of love and company. After that she finished the rest of
> her rounds of the elderly and disabled and then go home for the night
> to more raw meat and a sleep near the wood heater.
> When she became old herself, Nijma decided to go back to the wild after
>
> her friends John and Molly died. We would see her here and there but no
>
> one could catch her. She had gone back to her own and that would be
> mother nature and the wild of the forest. The owners were heart broken
> and had everyone who saw here try and catch her, but to no avail Nijma
> had made up her mind that she would spend her old age in the wild like
> she had started by most likely a drop off of some unwanted kittens and
> against all odds she made it in the wild as a kitten and as a grand old
>
> lady cat.
> I agree with you Les. Peace begins within a person and then it spills
> out of us into the rest of the world. Hopefully there will be a
> Hundredth Monkey affect and the rest of the world will take the gift of
>
> life and treat it as that, like John Greenan made people fall in love
> with life and it had a ripple affect even on a cat.
> Many ferile dogs and cats are eaten by the coyotes and wolves and so I
> would not know how they fare in the country as most dogs are not like
> Bower who I do not know what she eats, as she is too wild to keep up
> with. But she shares and socializes with the dogs who are left lonely
> in their yards. When I am really lucky Bower will run with my and
> disappear and come back during one of my daily walks. It feels like I
> have been with an angel when Bower graces me with her leap into the
> freezing cold lake in the middle of December and then smiles and takes
> off again.
> The ducks get a kick out of her as we have many ducks and geese that
> stay for the winter.
> Well Les, it is time for one of my twice a day or more walks out in the
>
> wild so I am off to see what birds , ducks or dogs and cats will be my
> companions on my walk. Did I mention the deer come out at nights in the
>
> winter and they let me come as close as a few feet from them There is a
>
> family of 7 who come into town late in the winter and spring. I follow
> their footprints and they will play with me and come around to where I
> have followed them and come near me and we stand there and look at each
>
> other, soul to soul. I would not recommend this to people who do not
> get to know the deer as they can take their front feet and do serious
> harm by trampling. They know the difference between friend and foe, It
> does take time however.
> As I said before the first Nations really knew and still do the wisdom
> of animals.
> Nice talking with you Les. I like your gentle nature.
> Show Dog Bark
> Be Good Do Good Be One

Invocation
By Robin Williamson

you that create the diversity of the forms
open to my words
you that divide and multiply it
hear my sounds
I make yield league to you
ancient associates
and fellow wanderers
you that move the heart
in fur and scale
I join with you
you that sing bright and subtle
making shapes that my throat cannot tell
you that harden the horn
and make quick the eye
you that run the fast fox and the zigzag fly
you sizeless makers of the mole and of the whale
aid me and I will aid you

I make a blood pact with you
you that lift the blossom and the green branch
you who make symmetries more true
you who consider the angle of your limbs
who dance in slower time
who watch the patterns
you rough coated who eat water
who stretch deep and high
with your green blood
my red blood let it be mingled
aid me and I will aid you

I call upon you
you who are unconfined
who have no shape
who are not seen
but only in your action
I will call upon you
you who have no depth
but choose direction
who bring what is willed
that you blow love upon the summers of my loved ones
that you blow summers upon those loves of my love
aid me and I will aid you

I make a pact with you
you who are the liquidness of the waters
and the spark of the flame
I call upon you
you who make fertile the soft earth
and guard the growth of the growing things
I make peace with you

you who are the blueness of the blue sky
and the wrath of the storm
I take the cup of deepness with you
earthshakers
and with you the sharp and the hollow hills
I make reverence to you
round wakefulness we
call the earth
I make wide eyes to you
you who are awake
every created thing both solid and sleepy
or airy light
I weave colours round you
you who will come with me
I will consider it beauty

Artist: The Incredible String Band
Album: U

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness [message #284279 ]

Do, 15 Juni 2006 22:18

Kathleen

showdogbark wrote:
<snip>
> There was a border collie in a town I lived in that was ferile. She
> was
>
> known to take dogs at large and have them disappear into the forest.
> When the forest ranger checked this out he found the collars of the
> dogs near bones. It was concluded that the dog was taking up stray
> dogs
>
> to the wolves and coyotes and sharing the kill with them. She would
> come down and hang around and run as if she was having fun with the
> dogs and as soon as a person turned their back there would go the dog
> with the missing border collie also. The S.P.C.A. got a hold of her
> with much trouble in catching her and found her a home in the
> country. I hear she stays home some of the time and the rest of the
> time she takes off to be with her wild friends she made in the forest
> there. Now
>
> this is unusual as wolves would normally eat the border collie yet
> she knew how to live with them in lean times by bringing them dogs
> and sharing the food. She was always soaking wet from the rain and
> snow but did not mind. Her
>
> coat was very thick as she never was indoors so she did not shed her
> winter coat as most indoor dogs do. <snip>

It's feral, okay? *F*E*R*A*L*, not "ferile".

Geeze. It's called a spellchecker. Use it.

And I call bullshit. Post the location and the name of the forest
ranger. I've had BCs for years and have seen the extent of their
intelligence but you're nucking futz if you believe this extends to
deliberately luring strays to their deaths.

Kathleen

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness [message #284280 ]

Fr, 16 Juni 2006 00:20

showdogbark

>> It's feral, okay? *F*E*R*A*L*, not "ferile".
>
> Geeze. It's called a spellchecker. Use it.
>
> And I call bullshit. Post the location and the name of the forest
> ranger. I've had BCs for years and have seen the extent of their
> intelligence but you're nucking futz if you believe this extends to
> deliberately luring strays to their deaths.
>
>
>
> Kathleen
The name of the forest ranger is David Lewis he worked out of Nelson
B.C, Canada at the time. It was about seven years ago.
This border collie is the only dog that I have heard of who cooperated
with wolves for food. So of course I am not promoting the luring of
strays. It was documented behavior I was letting the group know about.
By the way, I choose Canadian English for my spell check and it did not
catch the American version of the word you are so picky about. Next
time you blast someone for spellcheck remember us Canucks use our own
English versions sometimes, we all don't do everything the American
Way. We are also known for our politeness, Canadians are known world
wide for that. Eh, how bout tryin it Eh?
Show Dog Bark
Be Good Do Good Be One

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness [message #284285 ]

Fr, 16 Juni 2006 03:38

Evelyn Ruut

"showdogbark" <jotnaringin [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1150410022.426935.323840 [at] u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>>> It's feral, okay? *F*E*R*A*L*, not "ferile".
>>
>> Geeze. It's called a spellchecker. Use it.
>>
>> And I call bullshit. Post the location and the name of the forest
>> ranger. I've had BCs for years and have seen the extent of their
>> intelligence but you're nucking futz if you believe this extends to
>> deliberately luring strays to their deaths.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kathleen
> The name of the forest ranger is David Lewis he worked out of Nelson
> B.C, Canada at the time. It was about seven years ago.
> This border collie is the only dog that I have heard of who cooperated
> with wolves for food. So of course I am not promoting the luring of
> strays. It was documented behavior I was letting the group know about.
> By the way, I choose Canadian English for my spell check and it did not
> catch the American version of the word you are so picky about. Next
> time you blast someone for spellcheck remember us Canucks use our own
> English versions sometimes, we all don't do everything the American
> Way. We are also known for our politeness, Canadians are known world
> wide for that. Eh, how bout tryin it Eh?
> Show Dog Bark
> Be Good Do Good Be One

Showdogbark, I have a neighbor who is very wise of the ways of animals of
the forest. He is a hunter, but also quite the naturalist. He says it is
common for coyotes to lure domesticated dogs to the woods for the pack to
kill. They often send a female in heat for this job. So the story you
have told is not all that over the top. Since the dog in question was a
female, they may have used her for this job in the same way.

--

Best Regards,

Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness [message #284286 ]

Fr, 16 Juni 2006 05:46

Jeff Strickland

<animalrightsandfreedom12345 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1150199180.157351.126520 [at] y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Recent research has shown that the average lifespans of domesticated
> animals are up to 4 years less than those of their feral counterparts.
> The findings of this research highlight the hypocrisy and selfishness
> of pet owners - that these so-called animal lovers brutally and
> callously cut short the lives of their four-legged companions.
>

My dog is, at best estimation, 17 years old. She has lead a wonderful life
as a full and valued member of my family. Selfish is not a word I'd use to
describe my pet ownership. My family has always owned a dog, somtimes more
than one dog. Our family dog when I was a small child lasted until I was an
adult, and died in his sleep at home with the people that loved him.

Recent research is partial, and designed to create the result it wants.

I've read studies that show that research causes cancer in laboratory rats,
but do we stop research?

> Adequacy.org spoke to the scientist behind the research and asked, what
> can be done to rectify this widespread and socially acceptable form of
> barbarism?
>
> The findings of this research, published in the June issue of the
> Journal of the American Association of Veterinary Science and
> Associated Professions, are an unequivocal condemnation of pet owners.
> The facts, presented below, make chilling reading. For example, the
> average lifespan of a domesticated dog is four years less than that of
> a similar dog living in the wild.
>
> Species Domesticated Lifespan (years) Feral Lifespan (years)
> Cat 16 19
> Dog 12 16
> Fish 5 6
> Hamster 2 2
> Horse 25 29
> Rabbit 10 12
> Comparative Lifespans of Domesticated and Feral Animals
>
> Dr. Victor O'Neill, the author of this work and a veterinary surgeon
> for over 25 years, explained that several factors are responsible for
> foreshortening the lives of domesticated animals.
>
> "Firstly, animals reared in a domestic environment are not exposed to
> the same pathogens during infancy as wild animals. Therefore, the
> immune systems of domesticated animals do not develop properly, which
> leads to a reduced resistance to disease in adulthood."
>
> "However, the main reason for these disturbing findings is that animals
> do not adapt to domestic life. Animals are simply unhappy when sharing
> a habitat with humans. Humans attempt to impose their value system upon
> animals and then punish the animals should they transgress this
> arbitrary set of rules of which they have no comprehension. These
> animals, enslaved by human tyrants, eventually lose the will to live,
> which results in their premature deaths."
>
> Following the publication of his research, O'Neill has formed a
> pressure group to lobby for a change in the law, outlawing pet
> ownership. In the short term, O'Neill believes that a change in
> people's attitudes is necessary.
>
> "Currently, pet ownership is seen as a harmless hobby and people are
> dependant on their companion animals. However, this research has shown
> that pet ownership is anything but harmless. People need to realise
> that it is a cruel institution that must be stopped."
>
> "There are many parallels between pet ownership and the practice of
> slavery that was widespread in the United States of America during the
> early part of the last century. Nowadays, the ownership of slaves is
> socially unacceptable and is rightly acknowledged as a barbaric
> practice. Pet ownership is exactly the same. I hope that people will
> come to realise that keeping domesticated animals is morally
> indefensible and that society will ostracize pet owners."
>
> However, O'Neill's viewpoint has been controversial and unpopular.
>
> "I have recieved innumerable death threats from pet owners. On one
> occassion my eight year-old daughter was kidnapped and physically
> assaulted by an enraged pet owner. Animal lovers are notorious for
> their emotional instability and they rely on their pet animals as a
> substitute for normal human relationships. My proposals to remove their
> emotional safety net are anathema to them and it is hardly surprising
> to see such an irrational reaction."
>
> It is truly inspiring to meet a man such as O'Neill who is willing to
> risk his personal safety in the fight for a righteous cause. It is
> indisputable that pet ownership is a vile practice. Humanity will only
> ever be able to consider itself an advanced civilisation when it
> outlaws this cruel institution and treats the lesser species with
> proper respect.
>

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness [message #284309 ]

Sa, 17 Juni 2006 00:35

chico chupacabra

Lesley babbled:

>> Hi Les Hilliard,
>> Concerning the specific topic of ferile dogs and cats in the country, I
>>
>> do have experience on that one. Many dog and cat owners do drop offs
>> and the animals become shy from being abandoned. So trying to give them
>>
>> food and shelter does not often work. So over time I do get to know
>> these animals. One dog around here who hangs out with the wolves and
>> comes down to the small town of 223 people comes to take the at large
>> dogs out for a wild run around the area and play. I call her Bower. She
>>
>> will go swimming in the coldest iciest snowiest winter and shake and
>> smile. Then she will brush up against my coat to get her smell on me.
>> Since I walk way into the woods other dogs that are at large will come
>> and sniff me where Bower left her sent mark.
>> After a year of knowing her she once did come with much coaxing to my
>> door where I gave her a piece of whole wheat toast, she took it and ran
>>
>> off with it and I followed her. She gave it to a pup that was on a
>> tether. Then she went to see an old dog that is arthritic and got him
>> to run with her around the park, when they were done she ran back to
>> his house to make sure he made it back home.
>> There are many cats around here who have been abandoned or dropped of
>> by owners who are ferile. They hide out in different places every night
>>
>> and hunt mice and birds. When given food some will take it others not
>> preferring the wild food they gather themselves. Some are starving and
>> mangy and those ones people catch and find homes for. Usually the
>> starving ones are kittens, interestingly enough we had one in our
>> garage that we could not catch as she would take off at the sound of
>> footsteps. Every night however a big tom cat would go in and see her
>> and bring her some food even though she was not in heat. We finally did
>>
>> catch her and went to the local hardware store to find out where the
>> S.P.C.A. was and a man who had lost his cat to old age said I will take
>>
>> her and she is the most happy well loved little princess.
>> There was a border collie in a town I lived in that was ferile. She was
>>
>> known to take dogs at large and have them disappear into the forest.
>> When the forest ranger checked this out he found the collars of the
>> dogs near bones. It was concluded that the dog was taking up stray dogs
>>
>> to the wolves and coyotes and sharing the kill with them. She would
>> come down and hang around and run as if she was having fun with the
>> dogs and as soon as a person turned their back there would go the dog
>> with the missing border collie also. The S.P.C.A. got a hold of her
>> with much trouble in catching her and found her a home in the country.
>> I hear she stays home some of the time and the rest of the time she
>> takes off to be with her wild friends she made in the forest there. Now
>>
>> this is unusual as wolves would normally eat the border collie yet she
>> knew how to live with them in lean times by bringing them dogs and
>> sharing the food.
>> She was always soaking wet from the rain and snow but did not mind. Her
>>
>> coat was very thick as she never was indoors so she did not shed her
>> winter coat as most indoor dogs do.
>> Now it takes allot of cunning to not be eaten by the coyotes that come
>> into small towns and so it was with a cat some friends had. She was
>> ferile and would not make contact with them for a couple of years. She
>> would sleep under their house now and then. Slowly she would come and
>> see them and over time accepted their food. Well she almost died from
>> the cat food. Many trips to the vet later he recommended they let her
>> stay in the house if she wanted as she had started doing that but to
>> only feed her raw meat as she was not used to commercial cat food. They
>>
>> did not do this and so the cat was so sick she was on deaths door when
>> a neighbor said they would bring over raw meat for the cat. The people
>> were vegetarians and did not wish to handle raw meat.
>> Well this cat became a philanthropist. Nijma was her name and she would
>>
>> eat her food in the morning and then head off for her daily rounds. She
>>
>> went to see every old person in the small town where they moved to from
>>
>> the wild where they had been living when they first came across Nijma.
>> She went first to see John Greenan a man who was 95 years old and loved
>>
>> to walk with her. By the way he lived till he was a hundred and one,
>> why-- because he walked four times a day and would declare to any one
>> who would listen and we all did " Why am I so lucky to live here and be
>>
>> blessed with such beauty to walk in every day"
>> Then after John she would go and see old Molly who was house bound from
>>
>> arthritis and she would visit there for a few hours and made Molly's
>> day be full of love and company. After that she finished the rest of
>> her rounds of the elderly and disabled and then go home for the night
>> to more raw meat and a sleep near the wood heater.
>> When she became old herself, Nijma decided to go back to the wild after
>>
>> her friends John and Molly died. We would see her here and there but no
>>
>> one could catch her. She had gone back to her own and that would be
>> mother nature and the wild of the forest. The owners were heart broken
>> and had everyone who saw here try and catch her, but to no avail Nijma
>> had made up her mind that she would spend her old age in the wild like
>> she had started by most likely a drop off of some unwanted kittens and
>> against all odds she made it in the wild as a kitten and as a grand old
>>
>> lady cat.
>> I agree with you Les. Peace begins within a person and then it spills
>> out of us into the rest of the world. Hopefully there will be a
>> Hundredth Monkey affect and the rest of the world will take the gift of
>>
>> life and treat it as that, like John Greenan made people fall in love
>> with life and it had a ripple affect even on a cat.
>> Many ferile dogs and cats are eaten by the coyotes and wolves and so I
>> would not know how they fare in the country as most dogs are not like
>> Bower who I do not know what she eats, as she is too wild to keep up
>> with. But she shares and socializes with the dogs who are left lonely
>> in their yards. When I am really lucky Bower will run with my and
>> disappear and come back during one of my daily walks. It feels like I
>> have been with an angel when Bower graces me with her leap into the
>> freezing cold lake in the middle of December and then smiles and takes
>> off again.
>> The ducks get a kick out of her as we have many ducks and geese that
>> stay for the winter.
>> Well Les, it is time for one of my twice a day or more walks out in the
>>
>> wild so I am off to see what birds , ducks or dogs and cats will be my
>> companions on my walk. Did I mention the deer come out at nights in the
>>
>> winter and they let me come as close as a few feet from them There is a
>>
>> family of 7 who come into town late in the winter and spring. I follow
>> their footprints and they will play with me and come around to where I
>> have followed them and come near me and we stand there and look at each
>>
>> other, soul to soul. I would not recommend this to people who do not
>> get to know the deer as they can take their front feet and do serious
>> harm by trampling. They know the difference between friend and foe, It
>> does take time however.
>> As I said before the first Nations really knew and still do the wisdom
>> of animals.
>> Nice talking with you Les. I like your gentle nature.
>> Show Dog Bark
>> Be Good Do Good Be One
>
> Invocation
> By Robin Williamson

*loud snoring*

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness [message #284312 ]

Sa, 17 Juni 2006 02:34

Lord Jubjub

In article <1150243435.979045.150320 [at] y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
"Dave" <prplbn [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

> TaraG wrote:
> > "Dutch" <no [at] email.com> wrote in message
> > news:128uai42gefle6a [at] news.supernews.com...
> > >
> > > "Frank from Deeetroit" <dadurweird [at] voyager.net> wrote in message
> > > news:6NCdnePht_bsMhPZnZ2dnUVZ_oydnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
> > >> The study makes no mention on how getting hit by a car significantly
> > >> shortens the life span of these furry creatures.
> > >
> > > What study? I see no mention of it here
> > > http://avmajournals.avma.org/toc/javma/228/11;jsessionid=oCWVOq54d6rgQz9op
> > > V
> > > It might be the letter to the editor.. or it might be bullshit.
> >
> > Checked the adequacy website, and found that along with (non fact checked)
> > articles contributed by readers on the topic of proof of alien life on
> > other
> > planets (as proved in scripture), this article was in fact posted around 5
> > years ago- with no citations. A quick google showed no such Journal of the
> > American Association of Veterinary Science and Associated Professions, and
> > no references to Dr. Victor O'Neill that didn't ultimately lead back to
> > this
> > article as the source of his name.
> >
> > This is nonsense. Last I heard, the average life span of feral domesticated
> > cats was way below 10 years of age, nowhere *near* 19.
>
> It does seem a tad credulous to accept without proper citations that a
> pet
> provided with a steady supply of food, medical care and protection from
>
> predators would have a shorter life expectancy than a wild animal.

Has it occurred to anyone that the original article might have been
lifted from . . .say. . .onion.com. . .or scrappleface.com . . .or any
of a legion of satirical websites?

--
Lord Jubjub
Keeper of the Jabberwock

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness [message #284316 ]

Sa, 17 Juni 2006 07:42

Leif Erikson

Evelyn Ruut wrote:

> "showdogbark" <jotnaringin [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1150410022.426935.323840 [at] u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>
>>
>>>>It's feral, okay? *F*E*R*A*L*, not "ferile".
>>>
>>>Geeze. It's called a spellchecker. Use it.
>>>
>>>And I call bullshit. Post the location and the name of the forest
>>>ranger. I've had BCs for years and have seen the extent of their
>>>intelligence but you're nucking futz if you believe this extends to
>>>deliberately luring strays to their deaths.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Kathleen
>>
>>The name of the forest ranger is David Lewis he worked out of Nelson
>>B.C, Canada at the time. It was about seven years ago.
>>This border collie is the only dog that I have heard of who cooperated
>>with wolves for food. So of course I am not promoting the luring of
>>strays. It was documented behavior I was letting the group know about.
>>By the way, I choose Canadian English for my spell check and it did not
>>catch the American version of the word you are so picky about. Next
>>time you blast someone for spellcheck remember us Canucks use our own
>>English versions sometimes, we all don't do everything the American
>>Way. We are also known for our politeness, Canadians are known world
>>wide for that. Eh, how bout tryin it Eh?
>>Show Dog Bark
>>Be Good Do Good Be One
>
>
>
>
> Showdogbark, I have a neighbor who is very wise of the ways of animals of
> the forest. He is a hunter, but also quite the naturalist. He says it is
> common for coyotes to lure domesticated dogs to the woods for the pack to
> kill. They often send a female in heat for this job.

Total bullshit.

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness [message #284320 ]

Sa, 17 Juni 2006 13:11

Evelyn Ruut

"Leif Erikson" <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote in message
news:aDMkg.13944$921.5652 [at] newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Evelyn Ruut wrote:
>
>> "showdogbark" <jotnaringin [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1150410022.426935.323840 [at] u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>
>>>>>It's feral, okay? *F*E*R*A*L*, not "ferile".
>>>>
>>>>Geeze. It's called a spellchecker. Use it.
>>>>
>>>>And I call bullshit. Post the location and the name of the forest
>>>>ranger. I've had BCs for years and have seen the extent of their
>>>>intelligence but you're nucking futz if you believe this extends to
>>>>deliberately luring strays to their deaths.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Kathleen
>>>
>>>The name of the forest ranger is David Lewis he worked out of Nelson
>>>B.C, Canada at the time. It was about seven years ago.
>>>This border collie is the only dog that I have heard of who cooperated
>>>with wolves for food. So of course I am not promoting the luring of
>>>strays. It was documented behavior I was letting the group know about.
>>>By the way, I choose Canadian English for my spell check and it did not
>>>catch the American version of the word you are so picky about. Next
>>>time you blast someone for spellcheck remember us Canucks use our own
>>>English versions sometimes, we all don't do everything the American
>>>Way. We are also known for our politeness, Canadians are known world
>>>wide for that. Eh, how bout tryin it Eh?
>>>Show Dog Bark
>>>Be Good Do Good Be One
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Showdogbark, I have a neighbor who is very wise of the ways of animals of
>> the forest. He is a hunter, but also quite the naturalist. He says it
>> is common for coyotes to lure domesticated dogs to the woods for the pack
>> to kill. They often send a female in heat for this job.
>
> Total bullshit.

Upon what do you base this claim? If indeed it is bullshit, you need to
have some sort of explanation. My neighbor has spent 70 years in the
woods. He might have some sort of mistaken belief in his animal lore, but
honestly, he is pretty sharp. What are your credentials that would lend
credibility to your "bullshit" claim? Your two word answer is
insufficient.

--

Best Regards,

Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness <-- Liar [message #284352 ]

Mo, 19 Juni 2006 02:50

Kevin McAllister

animalrightsandfreedom12345 [at] yahoo.com wrote:

> Recent research has shown that the average lifespans of domesticated
> animals are up to 4 years less than those of their feral counterparts.

This is a case of animal rights extremists using coincidental facts to
justify their radical ideologies. It's true that domestic animals live
shorter lives than feral ones -- naturally occurring diseases, infections,
and being hit by cars aside. The reason for their shorter lives, however,
is not their captivity, but their poor diets and lack of exercise.

There is nothing conspiratorial about this. Brand name commercial pet
food is well known for being a disgusting, toxic soup of industrial waste
from the food processing and livestock industries. It would serve pet
owners well to read http://www.fila.org/peak/dirtydogs.htm ... you will
understand why this garbage not only shortens the lives of domestic
animals, but why their deaths are often the result of cancer, tumors, and
other disease. Put yourself in their shoes. If every meal of your life
consisted entirely of brains, tongues, spinal chords, lungs, esophagi,
glands, intestines (not evacuated of fecal matter, mind you), bladders,
testicles, penises, uteri, fetuses, pulverized bones, horns and beaks,
bone marrow, blood, ligaments, growth hormones, steroids, chemicals,
pesticides, funguses, molds, rancid meats and cooking grease discarded by
grocery stores and fast food restaurants, roadkill and euthanized stray
dogs and cats from animal shelters, and "4-D" grade livestock absolutely
riddled with cancer, tumors, pus, gangrene, and bacteria, how long would
YOU live? Just because pet food manufacturers cook the shit out of this
toxic soup and layer it when chemicals so it looks presentable doesn't
negate the ingredients themselves. Buying brand-name pet food is like
paying the food processing industry to use your pets as garbage disposals
for their industrial waste. Ask about this in the pet-owner newsgroups:
there are veterinarians there who can recommend lesser known pet food
brands that aren't like this.

In the exercise department, most people just don't walk their dogs every
day, let alone take them to parks or beaches where they can run around a
few times a week. Cats get enough exercise if allowed to roam outdoors,
but many are kept entirely indoors.

Stagnant animals that feed off of brand-name pet "food" are guaranteed to
die earlier than feral ones. Simple as that. If pet owners allowed/gave
their cats/dogs proper exercise, and fed them actual food, they would live
many years longer than feral animals.

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness <-- Liar [message #284354 ]

Mo, 19 Juni 2006 03:15

Patty

Go away jackass, you sent the same bullshit last week

"Kevin McAllister" <kmca [at] igc.spam> wrote in message
news:Kxmlg.7649$o4.275 [at] newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> animalrightsandfreedom12345 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > Recent research has shown that the average lifespans of domesticated
> > animals are up to 4 years less than those of their feral counterparts.
>
> This is a case of animal rights extremists using coincidental facts to
> justify their radical ideologies. It's true that domestic animals live
> shorter lives than feral ones -- naturally occurring diseases, infections,
> and being hit by cars aside. The reason for their shorter lives, however,
> is not their captivity, but their poor diets and lack of exercise.
>
> There is nothing conspiratorial about this. Brand name commercial pet
> food is well known for being a disgusting, toxic soup of industrial waste
> from the food processing and livestock industries. It would serve pet
> owners well to read http://www.fila.org/peak/dirtydogs.htm ... you will
> understand why this garbage not only shortens the lives of domestic
> animals, but why their deaths are often the result of cancer, tumors, and
> other disease. Put yourself in their shoes. If every meal of your life
> consisted entirely of brains, tongues, spinal chords, lungs, esophagi,
> glands, intestines (not evacuated of fecal matter, mind you), bladders,
> testicles, penises, uteri, fetuses, pulverized bones, horns and beaks,
> bone marrow, blood, ligaments, growth hormones, steroids, chemicals,
> pesticides, funguses, molds, rancid meats and cooking grease discarded by
> grocery stores and fast food restaurants, roadkill and euthanized stray
> dogs and cats from animal shelters, and "4-D" grade livestock absolutely
> riddled with cancer, tumors, pus, gangrene, and bacteria, how long would
> YOU live? Just because pet food manufacturers cook the shit out of this
> toxic soup and layer it when chemicals so it looks presentable doesn't
> negate the ingredients themselves. Buying brand-name pet food is like
> paying the food processing industry to use your pets as garbage disposals
> for their industrial waste. Ask about this in the pet-owner newsgroups:
> there are veterinarians there who can recommend lesser known pet food
> brands that aren't like this.
>
> In the exercise department, most people just don't walk their dogs every
> day, let alone take them to parks or beaches where they can run around a
> few times a week. Cats get enough exercise if allowed to roam outdoors,
> but many are kept entirely indoors.
>
> Stagnant animals that feed off of brand-name pet "food" are guaranteed to
> die earlier than feral ones. Simple as that. If pet owners allowed/gave
> their cats/dogs proper exercise, and fed them actual food, they would live
> many years longer than feral animals.

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness <-- Liar [message #284362 ]

Mo, 19 Juni 2006 10:01

CHRIS

"Kevin McAllister" <kmca [at] igc.spam> wrote
> animalrightsandfreedom12345 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> Recent research has shown that the average lifespans of domesticated
>> animals are up to 4 years less than those of their feral counterparts.
>
> This is a case of animal rights extremists using coincidental facts to
> justify their radical ideologies. It's true that domestic animals live
> shorter lives than feral ones -- naturally occurring diseases, infections,
> and being hit by cars aside. The reason for their shorter lives, however,
> is not their captivity, but their poor diets and lack of exercise.
>
> There is nothing conspiratorial about this. Brand name commercial pet
> food is well known for being a disgusting, toxic soup of industrial waste
> from the food processing and livestock industries. It would serve pet
> owners well to read http://www.fila.org/peak/dirtydogs.htm ... you will
> understand why this garbage not only shortens the lives of domestic
> animals

I read that whole page looking for evidence of his claims and all I found
was the author flogging his own private brand of dog food.

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness [message #284424 ]

Mi, 21 Juni 2006 10:54

Blutt

carl [at] witthoft.com

<animalrightsandfreedom12345 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1150199180.157351.126520 [at] y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Recent research has shown that the average lifespans of domesticated
> animals are up to 4 years less than those of their feral counterparts.
> The findings of this research highlight the hypocrisy and selfishness
> of pet owners - that these so-called animal lovers brutally and
> callously cut short the lives of their four-legged companions.
>
> Adequacy.org spoke to the scientist behind the research and asked, what
> can be done to rectify this widespread and socially acceptable form of
> barbarism?
>
> The findings of this research, published in the June issue of the
> Journal of the American Association of Veterinary Science and
> Associated Professions, are an unequivocal condemnation of pet owners.
> The facts, presented below, make chilling reading. For example, the
> average lifespan of a domesticated dog is four years less than that of
> a similar dog living in the wild.
>
> Species Domesticated Lifespan (years) Feral Lifespan (years)
> Cat 16 19
> Dog 12 16
> Fish 5 6
> Hamster 2 2
> Horse 25 29
> Rabbit 10 12
> Comparative Lifespans of Domesticated and Feral Animals
>
> Dr. Victor O'Neill, the author of this work and a veterinary surgeon
> for over 25 years, explained that several factors are responsible for
> foreshortening the lives of domesticated animals.
>
> "Firstly, animals reared in a domestic environment are not exposed to
> the same pathogens during infancy as wild animals. Therefore, the
> immune systems of domesticated animals do not develop properly, which
> leads to a reduced resistance to disease in adulthood."
>
> "However, the main reason for these disturbing findings is that animals
> do not adapt to domestic life. Animals are simply unhappy when sharing
> a habitat with humans. Humans attempt to impose their value system upon
> animals and then punish the animals should they transgress this
> arbitrary set of rules of which they have no comprehension. These
> animals, enslaved by human tyrants, eventually lose the will to live,
> which results in their premature deaths."
>
> Following the publication of his research, O'Neill has formed a
> pressure group to lobby for a change in the law, outlawing pet
> ownership. In the short term, O'Neill believes that a change in
> people's attitudes is necessary.
>
> "Currently, pet ownership is seen as a harmless hobby and people are
> dependant on their companion animals. However, this research has shown
> that pet ownership is anything but harmless. People need to realise
> that it is a cruel institution that must be stopped."
>
> "There are many parallels between pet ownership and the practice of
> slavery that was widespread in the United States of America during the
> early part of the last century. Nowadays, the ownership of slaves is
> socially unacceptable and is rightly acknowledged as a barbaric
> practice. Pet ownership is exactly the same. I hope that people will
> come to realise that keeping domesticated animals is morally
> indefensible and that society will ostracize pet owners."
>
> However, O'Neill's viewpoint has been controversial and unpopular.
>
> "I have recieved innumerable death threats from pet owners. On one
> occassion my eight year-old daughter was kidnapped and physically
> assaulted by an enraged pet owner. Animal lovers are notorious for
> their emotional instability and they rely on their pet animals as a
> substitute for normal human relationships. My proposals to remove their
> emotional safety net are anathema to them and it is hardly surprising
> to see such an irrational reaction."
>
> It is truly inspiring to meet a man such as O'Neill who is willing to
> risk his personal safety in the fight for a righteous cause. It is
> indisputable that pet ownership is a vile practice. Humanity will only
> ever be able to consider itself an advanced civilisation when it
> outlaws this cruel institution and treats the lesser species with
> proper respect.
>

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness <-- Liar [message #284435 ]

Mi, 21 Juni 2006 18:27

showdogbark

Kevin McAllister wrote:
> animalrightsandfreedom12345 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > Recent research has shown that the average lifespans of domesticated
> > animals are up to 4 years less than those of their feral counterparts.
>
> This is a case of animal rights extremists using coincidental facts to
> justify their radical ideologies. It's true that domestic animals live
> shorter lives than feral ones -- naturally occurring diseases, infections,
> and being hit by cars aside. The reason for their shorter lives, however,
> is not their captivity, but their poor diets and lack of exercise.
>
> There is nothing conspiratorial about this. Brand name commercial pet
> food is well known for being a disgusting, toxic soup of industrial waste
> from the food processing and livestock industries. It would serve pet
> owners well to read http://www.fila.org/peak/dirtydogs.htm ... you will
> understand why this garbage not only shortens the lives of domestic
> animals, but why their deaths are often the result of cancer, tumors, and
> other disease. Put yourself in their shoes. If every meal of your life
> consisted entirely of brains, tongues, spinal chords, lungs, esophagi,
> glands, intestines (not evacuated of fecal matter, mind you), bladders,
> testicles, penises, uteri, fetuses, pulverized bones, horns and beaks,
> bone marrow, blood, ligaments, growth hormones, steroids, chemicals,
> pesticides, funguses, molds, rancid meats and cooking grease discarded by
> grocery stores and fast food restaurants, roadkill and euthanized stray
> dogs and cats from animal shelters, and "4-D" grade livestock absolutely
> riddled with cancer, tumors, pus, gangrene, and bacteria, how long would
> YOU live? Just because pet food manufacturers cook the shit out of this
> toxic soup and layer it when chemicals so it looks presentable doesn't
> negate the ingredients themselves. Buying brand-name pet food is like
> paying the food processing industry to use your pets as garbage disposals
> for their industrial waste. Ask about this in the pet-owner newsgroups:
> there are veterinarians there who can recommend lesser known pet food
> brands that aren't like this.
>
> In the exercise department, most people just don't walk their dogs every
> day, let alone take them to parks or beaches where they can run around a
> few times a week. Cats get enough exercise if allowed to roam outdoors,
> but many are kept entirely indoors.
>
> Stagnant animals that feed off of brand-name pet "food" are guaranteed to
> die earlier than feral ones. Simple as that. If pet owners allowed/gave
> their cats/dogs proper exercise, and fed them actual food, they would live
> many years longer than feral animals.

Interesting article on commercial pet food. P.E.T.A. has exposed the
same information. It is too bad that this article discredits itself by
promoting a product. Home made is the only answer, that way you know
what your dog is eating.
Show Dog Bark

Re: Pet Ownership - Killing Through Kindness <-- Liar [message #284449 ]

Do, 22 Juni 2006 00:17

Notifier Deamon

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

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