| Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters! [message #282642] |
Sa, 10 Juni 2006 00:45 |
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On them I pronounce the following curses: the pimples of Lotho, the hacking
cough of a smoker of Longbottom weed, the lodgings of a Barrow-wight, the
social life of a Nazgûl (though they probably enjoys that already), the fare
of Gollum, the conjugal appreciation of Celeborn, the workplace environment
of a Snaga and the cross-country hiking experiences of Saruman.
Öjevind
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| Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters! [message #282644 ] |
Sa, 10 Juni 2006 01:34 |
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Öjevind Lång wrote:
> the conjugal appreciation of Celeborn,
o.O
That one is interesting.
Michelle
Flutist
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| Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters! [message #282645 ] |
Sa, 10 Juni 2006 01:36 |
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Michelle J. Haines wrote:
>> the conjugal appreciation of Celeborn,
>
> o.O
>
> That one is interesting.
Did he stay in ME when Galadriel departed?
(Are sylvan/dark elves permitted to depart into the West?)
--
Phlip
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!!
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| Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters! [message #282648 ] |
Sa, 10 Juni 2006 04:10 |
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Michelle J. Haines wrote:
> =D6jevind L=E5ng wrote:
> > the conjugal appreciation of Celeborn,
>
> o.O
>
> That one is interesting.
unfortunately not.
most people know that celeborn doubled up as a porn star (hence
"teleporno"); but few realise that this particular pornography actally
DECREASED sexual appetite in its victims.
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| Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters! [message #282653 ] |
Sa, 10 Juni 2006 06:57 |
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"Öjevind Lång" <bredband.net [at] ojevind.lang> wrote in message
news:4euc08F1gj6ovU1 [at] individual.net...
> On them I pronounce the following curses: the pimples of Lotho, the
> hacking cough of a smoker of Longbottom weed, the lodgings of a
> Barrow-wight, the social life of a Nazgûl (though they probably enjoys
> that already), the fare of Gollum, the conjugal appreciation of Celeborn,
> the workplace environment of a Snaga and the cross-country hiking
> experiences of Saruman.
That's precious enough for me to steal.
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| Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters! [message #282656 ] |
Sa, 10 Juni 2006 14:54 |
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"Phlip" <phlipcpp [at] yahoo.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
qCnig.21831$VE1.21085 [at] newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> Michelle J. Haines wrote:
>
>>> the conjugal appreciation of Celeborn,
>>
>> o.O
>>
>> That one is interesting.
>
> Did he stay in ME when Galadriel departed?
>
> (Are sylvan/dark elves permitted to depart into the West?)
>
Yes and yes. But I still don't understand the initial statement. Öjevind,
please explain yourself!
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| Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters! [message #282658 ] |
Sa, 10 Juni 2006 15:39 |
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"Charilaos Velaris" <velaris.charilaos [at] wanadoo.fr> skrev i meddelandet
news:448ac112$0$895$ba4acef3 [at] news.orange.fr...
>>>> the conjugal appreciation of Celeborn,
>>>
>>> o.O
>>>
>>> That one is interesting.
>>
>> Did he stay in ME when Galadriel departed?
>>
>> (Are sylvan/dark elves permitted to depart into the West?)
>>
>
> Yes and yes. But I still don't understand the initial statement. Öjevind,
> please explain yourself!
Would *you* want to be married to Celeborn?
Öjevind
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| Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters! [message #282676 ] |
So, 11 Juni 2006 01:05 |
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"Öjevind Lång" <bredband.net [at] ojevind.lang> wrote in message
news:4f00bqF1go7r4U1 [at] individual.net...
> Would *you* want to be married to Celeborn?
>
I feel like I missed something on the way here...
But I'd shore enjoy being married to Galadriel...
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| Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters! [message #282678 ] |
So, 11 Juni 2006 03:19 |
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Öjevind Lång a écrit :
> "Charilaos Velaris" <velaris.charilaos [at] wanadoo.fr> skrev i meddelandet
> news:448ac112$0$895$ba4acef3 [at] news.orange.fr...
>
>>>>> the conjugal appreciation of Celeborn,
>>>> o.O
>>>>
>>>> That one is interesting.
>>> Did he stay in ME when Galadriel departed?
>>>
>>> (Are sylvan/dark elves permitted to depart into the West?)
>>>
>> Yes and yes. But I still don't understand the initial statement. Öjevind,
>> please explain yourself!
>
> Would *you* want to be married to Celeborn?
>
> Öjevind
It might be the only case when an elf queen is mightier than her elven
king (not mentioning Melian, who is no elf), yet I wonder whence came
this general scorn cast upon Celeborn! We know nothing about him...
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| Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters! [message #282685 ] |
So, 11 Juni 2006 12:56 |
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"Öjevind Lång" <bredband.net [at] ojevind.lang> a écrit dans le message de news:
4f00bqF1go7r4U1 [at] individual.net...
> Would *you* want to be married to Celeborn?
If I was female, I don't think I would mind. Why not?
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| Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters! [message #282686 ] |
So, 11 Juni 2006 13:01 |
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"nfw" <brasseurNO [at] SPgrandefauxA.Mcom> a écrit dans le message de news:
zcKig.45805$iO5.1189737 [at] wagner.videotron.net...
> It might be the only case when an elf queen is mightier than her elven
> king (not mentioning Melian, who is no elf), yet I wonder whence came this
> general scorn cast upon Celeborn! We know nothing about him...
We know quite a bit about him, actually and none of it solicits any scorn.
I'll accept that Galadriel was mightier due to the Valinor effect, but he
was not insignificant. He was a Sindarin aristocrat, kinsman of Thingol
who's been around since the First Age, fought in all the wars since and was
the one to actually finish the War of the Ring with his assault on Dol
Guldur
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| Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters! [message #282687 ] |
So, 11 Juni 2006 14:42 |
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"Charilaos Velaris" <velaris.charilaos [at] wanadoo.fr> skrev i meddelandet
news:448bf6ed$0$862$ba4acef3 [at] news.orange.fr...
>
> "Öjevind Lång" <bredband.net [at] ojevind.lang> a écrit dans le message de
> news: 4f00bqF1go7r4U1 [at] individual.net...
>
>> Would *you* want to be married to Celeborn?
>
> If I was female, I don't think I would mind. Why not?
He was rather stupid, judging by just about everything he said during the
fellowship's stay in Lórien. His great moment of glory was when he cunningfy
figured out that the Fellowship could use boats to get down the Anduin
faster. I wouldn't have been surprised if he had handed out swimming trunks
instead.
Öjevind
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| Celeborn the Nitwit? (Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters!) [message #282689 ] |
So, 11 Juni 2006 16:22 |
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Sun, 11 Jun 2006 14:42:53 +0200 from Öjevind Lång
<bredband.net [at] ojevind.lang>:
> > "Öjevind Lång" <bredband.net [at] ojevind.lang> a écrit dans le message de
> > news: 4f00bqF1go7r4U1 [at] individual.net...
> >> Would *you* want to be married to Celeborn?
>
> He was rather stupid, judging by just about everything he said during the
> fellowship's stay in Lórien.
He strikes me that way too, yet Galadriel says "the Lord of the
Galadhrim is accounted the wisest of the Elves of Middle-earth. ..."
I think we can rule this out as a bit of flattery from little wifey.
When I look at what he actually says, it's not so much stupid as what
Treebeard would call hasty. He seems to jump to conclusions way too
quickly, then have to backtrack and apologize. Perhaps he's one of
those people who are very intelligent but can't handle pressure.
(Thingol, his kinsman, seemed much the same sort.)
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Tolkien FAQs: http://Tolkien.slimy.com (Steuard Jensen's site)
Tolkien letters FAQ:
http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html
FAQ of the Rings: http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm
Encyclopedia of Arda: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm
more FAQs: http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm
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| Re: Celeborn the Nitwit? (Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters!) [message #282697 ] |
So, 11 Juni 2006 23:52 |
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Stan Brown wrote:
> Sun, 11 Jun 2006 14:42:53 +0200 from =D6jevind L=E5ng
> <bredband.net [at] ojevind.lang>:
> > > "=D6jevind L=E5ng" <bredband.net [at] ojevind.lang> a =E9crit dans le mess=
age de
> > > news: 4f00bqF1go7r4U1 [at] individual.net...
> > >> Would *you* want to be married to Celeborn?
> >
> > He was rather stupid, judging by just about everything he said during t=
he
> > fellowship's stay in L=F3rien.
>
> He strikes me that way too, yet Galadriel says "the Lord of the
> Galadhrim is accounted the wisest of the Elves of Middle-earth. ..."
> I think we can rule this out as a bit of flattery from little wifey.
>
> When I look at what he actually says, it's not so much stupid as what
> Treebeard would call hasty. He seems to jump to conclusions way too
> quickly, then have to backtrack and apologize. Perhaps he's one of
> those people who are very intelligent but can't handle pressure.
> (Thingol, his kinsman, seemed much the same sort.)
i wonder if it's a sindarin thing. although the noldor were pretty
hasty in the first age, they seem to have mellowed by the war of the
ring.
cleborn also suffers because galadriel is one of tolkien's msot
fascinating characters. it's too bad tolkien never really developed a
satisfactory backstory for her. "all shall love me and despair!"
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| Re: Celeborn the Nitwit? (Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters!) [message #282702 ] |
Mo, 12 Juni 2006 00:16 |
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"Count Menelvagor" <Menelvagor [at] mailandnews.com> wrote in message
news:1150062751.644422.119320 [at] h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> cleborn also suffers because galadriel is one of tolkien's msot
> fascinating characters. it's too bad tolkien never really developed a
> satisfactory backstory for her. "all shall love me and despair!"
I'd say Flight of the Noldor is a good backstory...
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| Re: Death to Keleborn the Pussywhpped House-Wimp [message #282708 ] |
Mo, 12 Juni 2006 04:53 |
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"David Gray Porter" <portniek [at] earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:kD0jg.4670$o4.4542 [at] newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> "Count Menelvagor" <Menelvagor [at] mailandnews.com> wrote in message
> news:1150062751.644422.119320 [at] h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
His only contribution to knowledge was his prediction of Porn on Television!
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| Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters! [message #282715 ] |
Mo, 12 Juni 2006 10:27 |
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Öjevind Lång wrote:
>
> On them I pronounce the following
> curses: the pimples of Lotho, the hacking
> cough of a smoker of Longbottom weed, the
> lodgings of a Barrow-wight, the
> social life of a Nazgûl (though they
> probably enjoys that already), the fare
> of Gollum, the conjugal appreciation
> of Celeborn, the workplace environment
> of a Snaga and the cross-country
> hiking experiences of Saruman.
>
> Öjevind
<begin Weekun script>
Tjypical Wjeejun pjost, ajlways ljooking tjo mjake ojthers sjuffer a
sjimilar ljifestyle tjo thjemselves!
Ojff yjou gjo bjack tjo yjour Fjiord yjou hyumpy-bjacked gjit ajnd ejat
sjome mjoss frjom thje hjillside.
*mjahhahahahahahahahaha*
<end Weekun script>
M.
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| Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters! [message #282725 ] |
Mo, 12 Juni 2006 23:05 |
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"Charilaos Velaris" <velaris.charilaos [at] wanadoo.fr> skrev i meddelandet
news:448bf80b$0$1029$ba4acef3 [at] news.orange.fr...
[snip]
> We know quite a bit about him, actually and none of it solicits any scorn.
> I'll accept that Galadriel was mightier due to the Valinor effect, but he
> was not insignificant. He was a Sindarin aristocrat, kinsman of Thingol >
> who's been around since the First Age, fought in all the wars since and
> was the one to actually finish the War of the Ring with his assault on Dol
> Guldur
Galadriel keeps insisting that he is very wise, but he shows no trace of it.
In fact, he comes across as an addle-pate and a ninnyhammer. A woman I know
says she thinks that Galadriel is secretly pointing out how inadequate
Celeborn si by constantly talking about his (undemonstrated) wisdom.
Öjevind
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| Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters! [message #282726 ] |
Mo, 12 Juni 2006 23:24 |
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"Michael O'Neill" <onq [at] bwahahaha.indigo.ie> skrev i en meddelelse
news:448D257D.2562CE40 [at] bwahahaha.indigo.ie...
> Öjevind Lång (wrote something)
> <begin Weekun script>
>
> Tjypical Wjeejun pjost, ajlways ljooking tjo mjake ojthers sjuffer a
> sjimilar ljifestyle tjo thjemselves!
>
> Ojff yjou gjo bjack tjo yjour Fjiord yjou hyumpy-bjacked gjit ajnd ejat
> sjome mjoss frjom thje hjillside.
>
> *mjahhahahahahahahahaha*
>
> <end Weekun script>
If "Weekun" equals "Weejun", then who you calling "Weejun", old
Sassenach? Go home to your tea and your cricket with you.
Hrafn.
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| Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters! [message #282728 ] |
Di, 13 Juni 2006 00:05 |
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Öjevind Lång wrote:
> On them I pronounce the following curses: the pimples of Lotho, the hacking
> cough of a smoker of Longbottom weed, the lodgings of a Barrow-wight, the
> social life of a Nazgûl (though they probably enjoys that already), the fare
> of Gollum, the conjugal appreciation of Celeborn, the workplace environment
> of a Snaga and the cross-country hiking experiences of Saruman.
Sorry to nitpick, but Longbottom weed was smoked through pipes and not
inhaled. Hence no hacking cough. OTOH, we know that Orcs smoked
cigarettes since Tolkien nowhere said that they didn't.
-- FotW
Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.
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| Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters! [message #282746 ] |
Di, 13 Juni 2006 01:57 |
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Öjevind Lång <bredband.net [at] ojevind.lang> wrote:
> "Charilaos Velaris" <velaris.charilaos [at] wanadoo.fr> skrev i meddelandet
> news:448bf6ed$0$862$ba4acef3 [at] news.orange.fr...
>>
>> "Öjevind Lång" <bredband.net [at] ojevind.lang> a écrit dans le message de
>> news: 4f00bqF1go7r4U1 [at] individual.net...
>>
>>> Would *you* want to be married to Celeborn?
>>
>> If I was female, I don't think I would mind. Why not?
>
> He was rather stupid, judging by just about everything he said during
> the fellowship's stay in Lórien. His great moment of glory was when
> he cunningfy figured out that the Fellowship could use boats to get
> down the Anduin faster. I wouldn't have been surprised if he had
> handed out swimming trunks instead.
As might be guessed from Ojevind's tone, the baiting of Celeborn is more
of an in-joke. There is little evidence that Celeborn really is stupid,
but lots of indirect stuff that can be taken out of context, plus those
overblown comment from Galadriel ("wisest" and "giver of gifts beyond
the power of kings").
If people really think Celeborn comes across as stupid, they should
blame the way Tolkien wrote the scenes and dialogue. It is obvious that
Tolkien did not mean for Celeborn to appear stupid.
Also, it is entirely likely, given Tolkien's devotion to Our Lady (the
Virgin Mary) as part of his Roman Catholicism, that he unbalanced the
scenes involving Galadriel (a character with overtones of Our Lady), and
everyone else suffers in comparison. Of course, Elbereth is the real
"Our Lady" character, but Galadriel does have similar overtones.
Christopher
--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard
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| Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters! [message #282755 ] |
Di, 13 Juni 2006 02:41 |
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Öjevind Lång <bredband.net [at] ojevind.lang> wrote:
> On them I pronounce the following curses: the pimples of Lotho, the
> hacking cough of a smoker of Longbottom weed, the lodgings of a
> Barrow-wight, the social life of a Nazgûl (though they probably
> enjoys that already), the fare of Gollum, the conjugal appreciation
> of Celeborn, the workplace environment of a Snaga and the
> cross-country hiking experiences of Saruman.
Hmm. I still prefer the Oath of Feanor! :-)
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| Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters! [message #282756 ] |
Di, 13 Juni 2006 02:43 |
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Öjevind Lång <bredband.net [at] ojevind.lang> wrote:
> "Charilaos Velaris" <velaris.charilaos [at] wanadoo.fr> skrev i meddelandet
> news:448ac112$0$895$ba4acef3 [at] news.orange.fr...
>
>>>>> the conjugal appreciation of Celeborn,
>>>>
>>>> o.O
>>>>
>>>> That one is interesting.
>>>
>>> Did he stay in ME when Galadriel departed?
>>>
>>> (Are sylvan/dark elves permitted to depart into the West?)
>>>
>>
>> Yes and yes. But I still don't understand the initial statement.
>> Öjevind, please explain yourself!
>
> Would *you* want to be married to Celeborn?
I think the OP wanted a proper explanation...
Someone should at least explain Teleporno.
Teleporno was a name for Celeborn in earlier versions of Tolkien's
writings, some of which were published as /The Silmarillion/.
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| Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters! [message #282769 ] |
Di, 13 Juni 2006 05:15 |
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Raven wrote:
> If "Weekun" equals "Weejun", then who you calling "Weejun" [?]
Michael's just telling us he's beginning his "weekend" *very* early.
--
Bill
"Wise fool"
Gandalf, THE TWO TOWERS
-- The Wise will remove 'se' to reply; the Foolish will not--
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| Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters! [message #282770 ] |
Di, 13 Juni 2006 05:43 |
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In article <zSnjg.85130$wl.72026 [at] text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
spamgard [at] blueyonder.co.uk says...
> Öjevind Lång <bredband.net [at] ojevind.lang> wrote:
> > "Charilaos Velaris" <velaris.charilaos [at] wanadoo.fr> skrev i meddelandet
> > news:448ac112$0$895$ba4acef3 [at] news.orange.fr...
> >
> >>>>> the conjugal appreciation of Celeborn,
> >>>>
> >>>> o.O
> >>>>
> >>>> That one is interesting.
> >>>
> >>> Did he stay in ME when Galadriel departed?
> >>>
> >>> (Are sylvan/dark elves permitted to depart into the West?)
> >>>
> >>
> >> Yes and yes. But I still don't understand the initial statement.
> >> Öjevind, please explain yourself!
> >
> > Would *you* want to be married to Celeborn?
>
> I think the OP wanted a proper explanation...
> Someone should at least explain Teleporno.
>
> Teleporno was a name for Celeborn in earlier versions of Tolkien's
> writings, some of which were published as /The Silmarillion/.
Teleporno was a name for Celeborn in *later* writings when JRRT was
considering him as of the Teleri of Valinor, see /The Shibboleth of
Feanor/ in PoME or UT.
--
Tar-Elenion
He is a warrior, and a spirit of wrath. In every
stroke that he deals he sees the Enemy who long
ago did thee this hurt.
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| Re: Celeborn the Nitwit? (Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters!) [message #282773 ] |
Di, 13 Juni 2006 07:05 |
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Count Menelvagor wrote:
> cleborn also suffers because galadriel is one of tolkien's msot
> fascinating characters. it's too bad tolkien never really developed a
> satisfactory backstory for her. "all shall love me and despair!"
Uh, we wouldn't be having this thread if Galadriel were a guy and Celeborn
just his arm-candy...
--
Phlip
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!!
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| Re: Celeborn the Nitwit? (Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters!) [message #282780 ] |
Di, 13 Juni 2006 12:12 |
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"Phlip" <phlipcpp [at] yahoo.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:oIrjg.147208$F_3.30145 [at] newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
> Count Menelvagor wrote:
>
>> cleborn also suffers because galadriel is one of tolkien's msot
>> fascinating characters. it's too bad tolkien never really developed a
>> satisfactory backstory for her. "all shall love me and despair!"
>
> Uh, we wouldn't be having this thread if Galadriel were a guy and Celeborn
> just his arm-candy...
True, but that does not alter the fact that Galadriel is one of the most
fascinating characters in the book.
Öjevind
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| Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters! [message #282781 ] |
Di, 13 Juni 2006 12:14 |
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"Christopher Kreuzer" <spamgard [at] blueyonder.co.uk> skrev i meddelandet
news:ybnjg.85106$wl.3120 [at] text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
[snip]
> Also, it is entirely likely, given Tolkien's devotion to Our Lady (the
> Virgin Mary) as part of his Roman Catholicism, that he unbalanced the
> scenes involving Galadriel (a character with overtones of Our Lady), and
> everyone else suffers in comparison. Of course, Elbereth is the real
> "Our Lady" character, but Galadriel does have similar overtones.
In the same way, Varda (alias Elbereth) is more dominant and interesting
than her spouse, the Elder King.
Öjevind
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| Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters! [message #282782 ] |
Di, 13 Juni 2006 12:15 |
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"Bill O'Meally" <OMeallyMD [at] wise.rr.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:g5qjg.29028$GM.6183 [at] tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Raven wrote:
>
>> If "Weekun" equals "Weejun", then who you calling "Weejun" [?]
>
> Michael's just telling us he's beginning his "weekend" *very* early.
And suffers from the Irish flu?
Öjevind
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| Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters! [message #282783 ] |
Di, 13 Juni 2006 12:22 |
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"Flame of the West" <jerry [at] solinasNOSPAM.org> skrev i meddelandet
news:bImdnSIPWbZ1eRDZnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
[snip]
> Sorry to nitpick, but Longbottom weed was smoked through pipes and not
> inhaled. Hence no hacking cough. OTOH, we know that Orcs smoked
> cigarettes since Tolkien nowhere said that they didn't.
And how do we know that some hobbits didn't smkok cigarettes too? Huh?
In one of his unpublished skectches, which has come into my possession,
Tolkien writes the following:
When they reached The Green Dragon, they discovered that all its windows had
been broken and its furniture smashed to pieces; the innkeeper lay by one of
the tables, beaten unconscious with a tankard. Against the inn-wall, half a
dozen ill-favoured young hobbits in biker attire were lounging; they were
squint-eyed and sallow-faced from too many cigarettes of the same kind that
were hanging from their sneering lips and spreading an acrid, eye-stinging
smoke.
Öjevind
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| Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters! [message #282785 ] |
Di, 13 Juni 2006 12:40 |
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"Öjevind Lång" <bredband.net [at] ojevind.lang> a écrit dans le message de news:
4f639qF1gdsccU1 [at] individual.net...
> Galadriel keeps insisting that he is very wise, but he shows no trace of
> it.
Why then did she marry her? Looks alone aren't enough if you're going to
stay with someone for more than 10,000 years, I think. After all, Elf is
"Man ennobled" (in one of the Letters, I think) and as such cannot be
stupid.
> In fact, he comes across as an addle-pate and a ninnyhammer.
You can't speak in such generalities when slandering an Elf-lord. If you
make specific points, then I may try to counter them.
A woman I know
> says she thinks that Galadriel is secretly pointing out how inadequate
> Celeborn si by constantly talking about his (undemonstrated) wisdom.
What I will grant is that Tolkien wanted to make Galadriel stand out. That
effect can be achieved much more easily when nobody around her says anything
memorable. Another thing I might agree on is that Celeborn, having no
experience with mortals, underestimates them and does not think much of them
(much like Thingol). That explains why he is astounded that Gimli can be so
eloquent.
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| Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters! [message #282786 ] |
Di, 13 Juni 2006 12:47 |
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"Öjevind Lång" <bredband.net [at] ojevind.lang> a écrit dans le message de news:
4f7hfnF1ft37iU1 [at] individual.net...
> In the same way, Varda (alias Elbereth) is more dominant and interesting
> than her spouse, the Elder King.
>
I wouldn't go so far. Manwë seems to have the last word and, besides, the
Valar have divided their domains so as to avoid any clashes (e.g. she makes
stars, he commands the Eagles, Yavanna is in charge of trees, etc. etc.)
However, as Christopher mentioned, the Catholic Tolkien has made Varda
reminiscent of Mary, the mediator for mankind to whom mortals pray for
forgiveness of their sins. Likewise, it is Elbereth that the Elves call upon
(and especially the Noldorin Exiles) for help and it is she who most cares
and grieves for them. Of course, one must keep in mind that it is not God
that Varda is married to.
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| Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters! [message #282787 ] |
Di, 13 Juni 2006 12:53 |
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"Tar-Elenion" <tar_elenion [at] hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
MPG.1ef7d420eb6e2eb19899a0 [at] newsgroups.comcast.net...
> In article <zSnjg.85130$wl.72026 [at] text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
> spamgard [at] blueyonder.co.uk says...
>> Öjevind Lång <bredband.net [at] ojevind.lang> wrote:
>> I think the OP wanted a proper explanation...
>> Someone should at least explain Teleporno.
>>
>> Teleporno was a name for Celeborn in earlier versions of Tolkien's
>> writings, some of which were published as /The Silmarillion/.
>
> Teleporno was a name for Celeborn in *later* writings when JRRT was
> considering him as of the Teleri of Valinor, see /The Shibboleth of
> Feanor/ in PoME or UT.
> --
> Tar-Elenion
>
> He is a warrior, and a spirit of wrath. In every
> stroke that he deals he sees the Enemy who long
> ago did thee this hurt.
It is a name that fortunately was not very widely used, as it would have an
unintended effect in later decades. It is however simply the Quenya form of
Celeborn, just as Singollo or Sindacollo is of Thingol. Can someone please
refresh my memory on this point: When the leaders of the three houses of the
Eldar went to check out Valinor, did they go totally unaccompanied, or is
this not expressly stated? If it is the latter, Celeborn could very well
have gone with Elwë.
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| Re: Celeborn the Nitwit? (Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters!) [message #282788 ] |
Di, 13 Juni 2006 12:52 |
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Phlip wrote:
> Uh, we wouldn't be having this thread if Galadriel were a guy and Celeborn
> just his arm-candy...
But Celeborn is the only arm-candy there is in Tolkien's writings.
Morgil
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| Re: Celeborn the Nitwit? (Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters!) [message #282794 ] |
Di, 13 Juni 2006 13:20 |
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"Morgil" <morestelx [at] hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
e6m5cu$7pp$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi...
> Phlip wrote:
>
>> Uh, we wouldn't be having this thread if Galadriel were a guy and
>> Celeborn just his arm-candy...
>
> But Celeborn is the only arm-candy there is in Tolkien's writings.
>
> Morgil
What about Arwen. What does she actually /do/? (outside of Jackson's heretic
film)
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| Re: Celeborn the Nitwit? (Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters!) [message #282795 ] |
Di, 13 Juni 2006 15:35 |
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Charilaos Velaris wrote:
> What about Arwen. What does she actually /do/? (outside of Jackson's heretic
> film)
The best answer to that (and one of the best posts I ever read here) is
by Greydon, back in September 1997:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/msg/29c98b2aa 1c7bb89?hl=en
But, in any even, Arwen isn't praised for her wisdom and then
contradicted repeatedly.
Michael Wares
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| Re: Celeborn the Nitwit? (Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters!) [message #282804 ] |
Di, 13 Juni 2006 18:05 |
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Charilaos Velaris wrote:
> "Morgil" <morestelx [at] hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
> e6m5cu$7pp$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi...
>
>>Phlip wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Uh, we wouldn't be having this thread if Galadriel were a guy and
>>>Celeborn just his arm-candy...
>>
>>But Celeborn is the only arm-candy there is in Tolkien's writings.
>>
>>Morgil
>
>
> What about Arwen.
Aragorn, in whom the majesty of the ancient Numenoreans was
rekindled, had to become the King of both Arnor and Gondor
before he could even think being worthy of marrying Arwen.
Morgil
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| Re: Celeborn the Nitwit? (Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters!) [message #282805 ] |
Di, 13 Juni 2006 18:21 |
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Morgil wrote:
> Aragorn, in whom the majesty of the ancient Numenoreans was rekindled, had
> to become the King of both Arnor and Gondor before he could even think
> being worthy of marrying Arwen.
More usefully:
Frodo pointed out to Gandalf (and _not_ the other way around) that Arwen
the Evenstar becoming Queen of Gondor & Arnor represented a fundamental
shift in the spirituality and mind-set of the Numenoreans. No longer was
evening and night to be feared in the Tower of the Rising Sun.
About the entire thread: We don't need to demand every character, no
matter how high-born, to overtly do something heroic, such as croak >50
orcs, or sew big beautiful flags. Everyone helped in their own way.
--
Phlip
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| Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters! [message #282815 ] |
Di, 13 Juni 2006 20:48 |
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"Öjevind Lång" <bredband.net [at] ojevind.lang> skrev i en meddelelse
news:4f7hhtF1fv2cpU1 [at] individual.net...
> "Bill O'Meally" <OMeallyMD [at] wise.rr.com> skrev i meddelandet
> news:g5qjg.29028$GM.6183 [at] tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > Raven wrote:
> >> If "Weekun" equals "Weejun", then who you calling "Weejun" [?]
> > Michael's just telling us he's beginning his "weekend" *very* early.
> And suffers from the Irish flu?
That's "fluid", perhaps.
Crú.
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| Re: Celeborn the Nitwit? (Re: Death to Abusive NewsgroupPosters!) [message #282821 ] |
Di, 13 Juni 2006 22:22 |
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Öjevind Lång wrote:
> True, but that does not alter the fact that Galadriel is one of the most
> fascinating characters in the book.
"On April 6, Celeborn met Thranduil, the King of the Woodland Realm, in
Mirkwood. They renamed the forest the Wood of Greenleaves."
So it looks to me like C lead Lorien's army halfway through their
greatest nemesis, Mirkwood. Then he helped redraw its maps.
Not too shabby, right?
--
Phlip
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