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Science Fiction » alt.fan.starwars » Turning Jedi to the Dark Side (Spoiler for 'Betrayal')
| Turning Jedi to the Dark Side (Spoiler for 'Betrayal') [message #279648] |
Sa, 24 Juni 2006 01:00 |
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I am wondering how easy it is to turn Jedi to the Dark Side.
Jacen, one of the most level headed and thoughtful Jedi should have
known better. Here he is, the home of a Sith, and she just twists
his mind by showing him convincing visions of the future until he
becomes a killer of his friend.
But it isn't the first time.
Anakin Skywalker was probably the best example. Palpatine showed
Anakin visions of his wife dying, visions that were so crystal clear
and real that it let him manipulate Anakin's total sense of right and
wrong.
Kyp Durron was much the same way, tortured by Exar Kun and convinced
that what he was doing was right. He killed billions and when Kun
was destroyed he knew it was wrong.
Jacen made a big deal about pointing out how there was no Force energy
being directed at him by the woman, but that doesn't mean there wasn't
any Dark Side power at work. Yoda and the rest of the Jedi coucil
was in Palpatine's presense dozens of times over the years and it was
only at the very end when they finally started to sense that something
was off. Palpatine worked on Anakin a little bit at a time for years
and years until he was at just the right spot. I'm sure that there
was some sort of power at work, and that its probably something so
sneaky as not to be easily be detectable. Especially now that Jacen
is returning to family.
Maybe that's all it is, a simple inversion of right and wrong, for
someone so powerful to be convinced, who knows?
What do you think?
Ears
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| Re: Turning Jedi to the Dark Side (Spoiler for 'Betrayal') [message #279651 ] |
Sa, 24 Juni 2006 01:36 |
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Ears wrote:
> I am wondering how easy it is to turn Jedi to the Dark Side.
>
> Jacen, one of the most level headed and thoughtful Jedi should have
> known better. Here he is, the home of a Sith, and she just twists
> his mind by showing him convincing visions of the future until he
> becomes a killer of his friend.
>
> But it isn't the first time.
>
> Anakin Skywalker was probably the best example. Palpatine showed
> Anakin visions of his wife dying, visions that were so crystal clear
> and real that it let him manipulate Anakin's total sense of right and
> wrong.
>
> Kyp Durron was much the same way, tortured by Exar Kun and convinced
> that what he was doing was right. He killed billions and when Kun
> was destroyed he knew it was wrong.
>
>
> Jacen made a big deal about pointing out how there was no Force energy
> being directed at him by the woman, but that doesn't mean there wasn't
> any Dark Side power at work. Yoda and the rest of the Jedi coucil
> was in Palpatine's presense dozens of times over the years and it was
> only at the very end when they finally started to sense that something
> was off. Palpatine worked on Anakin a little bit at a time for years
> and years until he was at just the right spot. I'm sure that there
> was some sort of power at work, and that its probably something so
> sneaky as not to be easily be detectable. Especially now that Jacen
> is returning to family.
>
>
> Maybe that's all it is, a simple inversion of right and wrong, for
> someone so powerful to be convinced, who knows?
>
> What do you think?
>
> Ears
You don't need to use the Force to get people to commit evil.
H.
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| Re: Turning Jedi to the Dark Side (Spoiler for 'Betrayal') [message #279653 ] |
Sa, 24 Juni 2006 02:35 |
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On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:00:03 -0800, Ears <ears [at] not.com> wrote:
>I am wondering how easy it is to turn Jedi to the Dark Side.
>
>Jacen, one of the most level headed and thoughtful Jedi should have
>known better. Here he is, the home of a Sith, and she just twists
>his mind by showing him convincing visions of the future until he
>becomes a killer of his friend.
>
>But it isn't the first time.
>
>Anakin Skywalker was probably the best example. Palpatine showed
>Anakin visions of his wife dying, visions that were so crystal clear
>and real that it let him manipulate Anakin's total sense of right and
>wrong.
>
We don't know for certain that Palpatine was responsible for the
visions of Padme's death. However, he was able to capitalize on
Anakin's fears of that possibility to turn him to the dark side.
Todd
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| Re: Turning Jedi to the Dark Side (Spoiler for 'Betrayal') [message #290739 ] |
Mo, 26 Juni 2006 05:47 |
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Todd wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:00:03 -0800, Ears <ears [at] not.com> wrote:
>
> >I am wondering how easy it is to turn Jedi to the Dark Side.
> >
> >Jacen, one of the most level headed and thoughtful Jedi should have
> >known better. Here he is, the home of a Sith, and she just twists
> >his mind by showing him convincing visions of the future until he
> >becomes a killer of his friend.
> >
> >But it isn't the first time.
> >
> >Anakin Skywalker was probably the best example. Palpatine showed
> >Anakin visions of his wife dying, visions that were so crystal clear
> >and real that it let him manipulate Anakin's total sense of right and
> >wrong.
> >
>
> We don't know for certain that Palpatine was responsible for the
> visions of Padme's death. However, he was able to capitalize on
> Anakin's fears of that possibility to turn him to the dark side.
>
> Todd
In fact, I suspect that Anakin's visions were warnings sent from the
Force telling him of what would happen if he were to go down the path
of the Dark Side, but he misinterpreted them, and Palpatine exploted
them.
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| Re: Turning Jedi to the Dark Side (Spoiler for 'Betrayal') [message #290844 ] |
Mo, 26 Juni 2006 12:33 |
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"Todd" <twrexxnospam [at] earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:o32p9217t7r85ilk1l5j067c25ea05ddub [at] 4ax.com...
> On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:00:03 -0800, Ears <ears [at] not.com> wrote:
>
> >I am wondering how easy it is to turn Jedi to the Dark Side.
> >
> >Jacen, one of the most level headed and thoughtful Jedi should have
> >known better. Here he is, the home of a Sith, and she just twists
> >his mind by showing him convincing visions of the future until he
> >becomes a killer of his friend.
> >
> >But it isn't the first time.
> >
> >Anakin Skywalker was probably the best example. Palpatine showed
> >Anakin visions of his wife dying, visions that were so crystal clear
> >and real that it let him manipulate Anakin's total sense of right and
> >wrong.
> >
>
> We don't know for certain that Palpatine was responsible for the
> visions of Padme's death. However, he was able to capitalize on
> Anakin's fears of that possibility to turn him to the dark side.
>
> Todd
In the book Yoda told Anakin that ancient Jedi of the past used to be able
to see the future but it was very rare and only a few Jedi had the ability.
Apparently Anakin happened to be one.
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| Re: Turning Jedi to the Dark Side (Spoiler for 'Betrayal') [message #290995 ] |
Di, 27 Juni 2006 04:07 |
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On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:09:40 GMT, "Tuco" <tuco [at] frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
>"Todd" <twrexxnospam [at] earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:o32p9217t7r85ilk1l5j067c25ea05ddub [at] 4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:00:03 -0800, Ears <ears [at] not.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I am wondering how easy it is to turn Jedi to the Dark Side.
>> >
>> >Jacen, one of the most level headed and thoughtful Jedi should have
>> >known better. Here he is, the home of a Sith, and she just twists
>> >his mind by showing him convincing visions of the future until he
>> >becomes a killer of his friend.
>> >
>> >But it isn't the first time.
>> >
>> >Anakin Skywalker was probably the best example. Palpatine showed
>> >Anakin visions of his wife dying, visions that were so crystal clear
>> >and real that it let him manipulate Anakin's total sense of right and
>> >wrong.
>> >
>>
>> We don't know for certain that Palpatine was responsible for the
>> visions of Padme's death. However, he was able to capitalize on
>> Anakin's fears of that possibility to turn him to the dark side.
>>
>> Todd
>
>In the book Yoda told Anakin that ancient Jedi of the past used to be able
>to see the future but it was very rare and only a few Jedi had the ability.
>Apparently Anakin happened to be one.
>
Anakin only saw ONE possible future, just as Yoda was able to see
possible futures depending on one's actions. Had he trusted himself
and the Jedi way, Padme would most likely have lived.
Todd
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| Re: Turning Jedi to the Dark Side (Spoiler for 'Betrayal') [message #290996 ] |
Di, 27 Juni 2006 05:17 |
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Todd wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:09:40 GMT, "Tuco" <tuco [at] frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Todd" <twrexxnospam [at] earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >news:o32p9217t7r85ilk1l5j067c25ea05ddub [at] 4ax.com...
> >> On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:00:03 -0800, Ears <ears [at] not.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I am wondering how easy it is to turn Jedi to the Dark Side.
> >> >
> >> >Jacen, one of the most level headed and thoughtful Jedi should have
> >> >known better. Here he is, the home of a Sith, and she just twists
> >> >his mind by showing him convincing visions of the future until he
> >> >becomes a killer of his friend.
> >> >
> >> >But it isn't the first time.
> >> >
> >> >Anakin Skywalker was probably the best example. Palpatine showed
> >> >Anakin visions of his wife dying, visions that were so crystal clear
> >> >and real that it let him manipulate Anakin's total sense of right and
> >> >wrong.
> >> >
> >>
> >> We don't know for certain that Palpatine was responsible for the
> >> visions of Padme's death. However, he was able to capitalize on
> >> Anakin's fears of that possibility to turn him to the dark side.
> >>
> >> Todd
> >
> >In the book Yoda told Anakin that ancient Jedi of the past used to be able
> >to see the future but it was very rare and only a few Jedi had the ability.
> >Apparently Anakin happened to be one.
> >
>
>
> Anakin only saw ONE possible future, just as Yoda was able to see
> possible futures depending on one's actions. Had he trusted himself
> and the Jedi way, Padme would most likely have lived.
>
> Todd
That future was probably a warning what would happen if Anakin were to
go down the path to the Dark Side. Likewise, Jacen's possible futures
(i.e. either Nelani dies and Luke lives, or Nelani lives and Luke dies)
were only what would happen if Jacen chooses to go down the Dark path.
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| Re: Turning Jedi to the Dark Side (Spoiler for 'Betrayal') [message #291002 ] |
Di, 27 Juni 2006 21:43 |
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On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:00:03 -0800, Ears <ears [at] not.com> wrote:
>I am wondering how easy it is to turn Jedi to the Dark Side.
>
I think it has a lot to do with pride and arrogance. Yoda listed these
as a major problem for Jedi in AotC, it's a big reason why Anakin
fell, and now it seems to be the same trap for Jacen. He's steadily
become, imho, one of the most arrogant, irritating characters in the
series. He's been given a very self-important attitude by the authors
(look at his actions in Betrayal alone to see several incidents of him
making snap decisions because of something he decided on, ie the
female Jedi's murder, Ben's mind wipes). I wouldnt be surprised if
this is all part of the Legacy theme, rather than a 'Sith are okay
too' message that it appears to be at first.
Ben
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| Re: Turning Jedi to the Dark Side (Spoiler for 'Betrayal') [message #291994 ] |
Mi, 28 Juni 2006 03:53 |
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_Ears_ spoke thusly on 23/06/2006 7:00 PM:
> I am wondering how easy it is to turn Jedi to the Dark Side.
<snip>
>
> Maybe that's all it is, a simple inversion of right and wrong, for
> someone so powerful to be convinced, who knows?
>
> What do you think?
Would you ever kill another human being? I assume the answer is 'no'.
Do you have a daughter? Imagine someone had raped your daughter; and the
rapist was in front of you.
--
usenetsolon [at] gmail.com
Firefox 1.5 is out! <http://www.mozilla.com>
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| Re: Turning Jedi to the Dark Side (Spoiler for 'Betrayal') [message #291996 ] |
Mi, 28 Juni 2006 04:57 |
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On 26 Jun 2006 20:17:21 -0700, KLange [at] msn.com wrote:
>
>Todd wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:09:40 GMT, "Tuco" <tuco [at] frontiernet.net> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Todd" <twrexxnospam [at] earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> >news:o32p9217t7r85ilk1l5j067c25ea05ddub [at] 4ax.com...
>> >> On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:00:03 -0800, Ears <ears [at] not.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >I am wondering how easy it is to turn Jedi to the Dark Side.
>> >> >
>> >> >Jacen, one of the most level headed and thoughtful Jedi should have
>> >> >known better. Here he is, the home of a Sith, and she just twists
>> >> >his mind by showing him convincing visions of the future until he
>> >> >becomes a killer of his friend.
>> >> >
>> >> >But it isn't the first time.
>> >> >
>> >> >Anakin Skywalker was probably the best example. Palpatine showed
>> >> >Anakin visions of his wife dying, visions that were so crystal clear
>> >> >and real that it let him manipulate Anakin's total sense of right and
>> >> >wrong.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> We don't know for certain that Palpatine was responsible for the
>> >> visions of Padme's death. However, he was able to capitalize on
>> >> Anakin's fears of that possibility to turn him to the dark side.
>> >>
>> >> Todd
>> >
>> >In the book Yoda told Anakin that ancient Jedi of the past used to be able
>> >to see the future but it was very rare and only a few Jedi had the ability.
>> >Apparently Anakin happened to be one.
>> >
>>
>>
>> Anakin only saw ONE possible future, just as Yoda was able to see
>> possible futures depending on one's actions. Had he trusted himself
>> and the Jedi way, Padme would most likely have lived.
>>
>> Todd
>
>That future was probably a warning what would happen if Anakin were to
>go down the path to the Dark Side. Likewise, Jacen's possible futures
>(i.e. either Nelani dies and Luke lives, or Nelani lives and Luke dies)
>were only what would happen if Jacen chooses to go down the Dark path.
Or what *could* happen. Nowhere is it written that there were only
two possible futures. Jacen only read it that way, probably because
his judgment was clouded by the dark path he was already beginning to
follow without being aware of it.
Todd
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