Horcux Guardians and Harry's Blood

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Fantasy » alt.fan.harry-potter » Horcux Guardians and Harry's Blood

Horcux Guardians and Harry's Blood [message #278043]

Sa, 03 Juni 2006 00:43

JoeMo

I just read a Scribbulus essay on the Leaky Cauldron called "His Own
Worst Enemy: Harry as a Horcrux" By ~Mokey.

http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/scribbulus/textonly.php?m= essay:208

and though I don't agree with the main premise of the essay, the author
metioned two things I thought were really good and deserved discussion.

1. Each Horcrux has a Death Eater " Guardian". If this is true, then
who's guarding each one?

Diary - Lucius
Ring - ???
Locket - RAB, then ???
Cup - ???
Unknown Horcrux - ???
Nagini - LV himself

Bella's probably got one... but who else? Snape, surely... Dolohov? The
Brutal Faced DE?

?

2. Harry's blood, and not Harry himself will kill Voldemort in the end.

>From the article...

"'He said my blood would make him stronger than if he'd used someone
else's." Harry told Dumbledore. "He said the protection my - my
mother left in me - he'd have it too. And he was right - he could
touch me without hurting himself, he touched my face.'

'For a fleeting instant, Harry thought he saw a gleam of something like
triumph in Dumbledore's eyes.'

Interesting. Why would Dumbledore feel triumphant knowing that
Voldemort has Harry's protective blood in his veins? The answer, I
believe, is what will ultimately destroy Voldemort.
<snip>
Voldemort, as of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, has Harry's
protection in his blood, but he also has something else in his veins
that runs through Harry's, and that is love. As we saw in Harry Potter
and the Sorcerer's Stone, Voldemort cannot even bear to come in
contact with this powerful force. So what is keeping Voldemort alive if
there is love in his veins? It is the protection. Unfortunately for
Voldemort, Harry's protection runs out when he comes of age, and since
Harry and Voldemort are so intricately connected, I believe the
protection will run out for Voldemort then as well. The love in his
blood will weaken him; it will begin to kill him."

An interesting connection between the "gleam of triumph" and the end of
Harry's protection as he comes of age. How will this change the
Harry/Voldemort dynamic? Will Voldemort lose the ability to touch
Harry, or gain the ability back to make Horcruxes? Maybe Voldemort's
heart will grow three sizes that day, and decide to be Harry's slave
for life to repay him all the unkindness of the past.

Speculation anyone?

Re: Horcux Guardians and Harry's Blood [message #278052 ]

Sa, 03 Juni 2006 03:26

Thomas Madura

JoeMo wrote:

> I just read a Scribbulus essay on the Leaky Cauldron called "His Own
> Worst Enemy: Harry as a Horcrux" By ~Mokey.
>
> http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/scribbulus/textonly.php?m= essay:208
>
> and though I don't agree with the main premise of the essay, the author
> metioned two things I thought were really good and deserved discussion.
>
> 1. Each Horcrux has a Death Eater " Guardian". If this is true, then
> who's guarding each one?
>
> Diary - Lucius
> Ring - ???
> Locket - RAB, then ???
> Cup - ???
> Unknown Horcrux - ???
> Nagini - LV himself
>
> Bella's probably got one... but who else? Snape, surely... Dolohov? The
> Brutal Faced DE?
>
> ?
>
> 2. Harry's blood, and not Harry himself will kill Voldemort in the end.
>
>>From the article...
>
> "'He said my blood would make him stronger than if he'd used someone
> else's." Harry told Dumbledore. "He said the protection my - my
> mother left in me - he'd have it too. And he was right - he could
> touch me without hurting himself, he touched my face.'
>
> 'For a fleeting instant, Harry thought he saw a gleam of something like
> triumph in Dumbledore's eyes.'
>
> Interesting. Why would Dumbledore feel triumphant knowing that
> Voldemort has Harry's protective blood in his veins? The answer, I
> believe, is what will ultimately destroy Voldemort.
> <snip>
> Voldemort, as of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, has Harry's
> protection in his blood, but he also has something else in his veins
> that runs through Harry's, and that is love. As we saw in Harry Potter
> and the Sorcerer's Stone, Voldemort cannot even bear to come in
> contact with this powerful force. So what is keeping Voldemort alive if
> there is love in his veins? It is the protection. Unfortunately for
> Voldemort, Harry's protection runs out when he comes of age, and since
> Harry and Voldemort are so intricately connected, I believe the
> protection will run out for Voldemort then as well. The love in his
> blood will weaken him; it will begin to kill him."
>
> An interesting connection between the "gleam of triumph" and the end of
> Harry's protection as he comes of age. How will this change the
> Harry/Voldemort dynamic? Will Voldemort lose the ability to touch
> Harry, or gain the ability back to make Horcruxes? Maybe Voldemort's
> heart will grow three sizes that day, and decide to be Harry's slave
> for life to repay him all the unkindness of the past.
>
> Speculation anyone?
>

You have hit on at least one of the things that will affect the outcome
of the battle between Harry and V. THe use of Harry's blood will be
significant.

I also believe that the "life debt" Petigrew owes Harry will come into play.

Somehow - Snape will also come into play as well - on Harry's side. Just
the fact that JKR answers the question about Snape being evil with
another question indicates that there is something up.

Re: Horcux Guardians and Harry's Blood [message #278065 ]

Sa, 03 Juni 2006 10:15

Toon

On 2 Jun 2006 15:43:37 -0700, "JoeMo" <josephrmoore [at] gmail.com> wrote:

>Interesting. Why would Dumbledore feel triumphant knowing that
>Voldemort has Harry's protective blood in his veins? The answer, I
>believe, is what will ultimately destroy Voldemort.
><snip>
>Voldemort, as of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, has Harry's
>protection in his blood, but he also has something else in his veins
>that runs through Harry's, and that is love. As we saw in Harry Potter
>and the Sorcerer's Stone, Voldemort cannot even bear to come in
>contact with this powerful force. So what is keeping Voldemort alive if
>there is love in his veins? It is the protection. Unfortunately for
>Voldemort, Harry's protection runs out when he comes of age, and since
>Harry and Voldemort are so intricately connected, I believe the
>protection will run out for Voldemort then as well. The love in his
>blood will weaken him; it will begin to kill him."

Unless it emerged with his DNA, and he's permanently immune to it.

>An interesting connection between the "gleam of triumph" and the end of
>Harry's protection as he comes of age. How will this change the
>Harry/Voldemort dynamic? Will Voldemort lose the ability to touch
>Harry, or gain the ability back to make Horcruxes? Maybe Voldemort's
>heart will grow three sizes that day, and decide to be Harry's slave
>for life to repay him all the unkindness of the past.

If Nagini is a horcrux, he already got the power back with his new
body.

Re: Horcux Guardians and Harry's Blood [message #278078 ]

Sa, 03 Juni 2006 17:06

John VanSickle

Re: Horcux Guardians and Harry's Blood [message #278111 ]

So, 04 Juni 2006 06:33

Toon

On Sat, 03 Jun 2006 15:06:51 GMT, John VanSickle
<evilsnack [at] earthlink.net> wrote:

>I think the whole Horcrux situation is a red herring to distract us from
>the way Harry will actually defeat Voldemort. It took Dumbledore
>*years* of effort to locate one of the Horcruxes, he only thought he
>knew where a second one was, and a third was dropped, providentially, on
>his desk. The idea that Harry, even with help, with find the remaining
>unaccounted-for three Horcruxes (not counting Nagini) is a bit hard to
>accept, even for a fantasy series.

I don't see how he can find them. He doesn't know anybody to take a
memory from. he doesn't know how to trace magic, just that it can be
done. He wouldn't know a trap when he saw it, just that there was a
trap. DD showed, but he didn't tell. And telling was really needed.
I also don't see Hermione being that big a help.

Somebody has to teach Harry in a hurry.

Re: Horcux Guardians and Harry's Blood [message #278120 ]

So, 04 Juni 2006 11:51

dicconf

In article <jgo482119ivi8an8f4d1p2t8ghd23jllqk [at] 4ax.com>,
Toon <toon [at] toon.com> wrote:
> John VanSickle <evilsnack [at] earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>I think the whole Horcrux situation is a red herring to distract us from
>>the way Harry will actually defeat Voldemort. It took Dumbledore
>>*years* of effort to locate one of the Horcruxes, he only thought he
>>knew where a second one was, and a third was dropped, providentially, on
>>his desk. The idea that Harry, even with help, with find the remaining
>>unaccounted-for three Horcruxes (not counting Nagini) is a bit hard to
>>accept, even for a fantasy series.
>
>I don't see how he can find them. He doesn't know anybody to take a
>memory from. he doesn't know how to trace magic, just that it can be
>done. He wouldn't know a trap when he saw it, just that there was a
>trap. DD showed, but he didn't tell. And telling was really needed.
>I also don't see Hermione being that big a help.
>
>Somebody has to teach Harry in a hurry.

OTOH, Harry also has to learn to trust his own subtle abilities.
He's been feeling magic for years as a 'breeze'. He's just barely
learned to notice that some of those breezes are spells flying past him.
He has felt a strong desire to keep the Diary, and now the locket; that
may be a result of his connection with Voldemort. If he can learn to
tell when he is feeling an unexplained connection with an object, that
could help him pick out a potential horcrux from a collection of other
objects, for example, the trophies in the trophy room, or the rubies
that count Gryffindor points in the big hourglass at Hogwarts.
He might even be able to have Hermione modify that directional spell
he used in the maze to point toward the nearest horcrux...

=Tamar

Re: Horcux Guardians and Harry's Blood [message #278131 ]

So, 04 Juni 2006 19:36

karnak17

JoeMo wrote:
> I just read a Scribbulus essay on the Leaky Cauldron called "His Own
> Worst Enemy: Harry as a Horcrux" By ~Mokey.
>
> http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/scribbulus/textonly.php?m= essay:208
>
> and though I don't agree with the main premise of the essay, the author
> metioned two things I thought were really good and deserved discussion.
>
> 1. Each Horcrux has a Death Eater " Guardian". If this is true, then
> who's guarding each one?
>
> Diary - Lucius
> Ring - ???
> Locket - RAB, then ???
> Cup - ???
> Unknown Horcrux - ???
> Nagini - LV himself
>
> Bella's probably got one... but who else? Snape, surely... Dolohov? The
> Brutal Faced DE?

I don't buy this at all. Why tell ANYBODY where his horcruxes are. He
is much safer hiding them himself. The diary was an exception -- only
because it was meant to be used as a weapon. (And look what happened
there).

> 2. Harry's blood, and not Harry himself will kill Voldemort in the end.
>
> >From the article...
>
> "'He said my blood would make him stronger than if he'd used someone
> else's." Harry told Dumbledore. "He said the protection my - my
> mother left in me - he'd have it too. And he was right - he could
> touch me without hurting himself, he touched my face.'
>
> 'For a fleeting instant, Harry thought he saw a gleam of something like
> triumph in Dumbledore's eyes.'
>
> Interesting. Why would Dumbledore feel triumphant knowing that
> Voldemort has Harry's protective blood in his veins? The answer, I
> believe, is what will ultimately destroy Voldemort.
> <snip>
> Voldemort, as of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, has Harry's
> protection in his blood, but he also has something else in his veins
> that runs through Harry's, and that is love. As we saw in Harry Potter
> and the Sorcerer's Stone, Voldemort cannot even bear to come in
> contact with this powerful force. So what is keeping Voldemort alive if
> there is love in his veins? It is the protection. Unfortunately for
> Voldemort, Harry's protection runs out when he comes of age, and since
> Harry and Voldemort are so intricately connected, I believe the
> protection will run out for Voldemort then as well. The love in his
> blood will weaken him; it will begin to kill him."
>
> An interesting connection between the "gleam of triumph" and the end of
> Harry's protection as he comes of age. How will this change the
> Harry/Voldemort dynamic? Will Voldemort lose the ability to touch
> Harry, or gain the ability back to make Horcruxes? Maybe Voldemort's
> heart will grow three sizes that day, and decide to be Harry's slave
> for life to repay him all the unkindness of the past.
>
> Speculation anyone?

Well, THAT would certainly explain the gleam of triumph. That guy is
right. Harry's protection DOES run out when he comes of age.
Therefore, Voldy's will too. So I agree that Harry's coming of age
will definitely be significant.

But I don't know about this "love in his veins" stuff. Lily's "love"
and the "protection" are one and the same, and will run out at the same
time. Harry's own love is just love, like everyone else has. There is
no evidence THAT kind of love can be given by transfusion. This theory
presumes that if Voldy had gotten a transfusion from Hermy or Ginny or
Narcissa, that their "love" would at once start to hurt him, and only
Lily's protection is creating the delayed reaction in Harry's case.

OTOH, it certainly fits in with the "love is your greatest weapon"
talk. And it would certainly be extremely dramatic for LV to be
infected with "love" for the final year. I can't imagine anything more
devastating for someone like LV to belatedly gain the ability to feel
compassion and remorse after all he's done. That would hurt.

Re: Horcux Guardians and Harry's Blood [message #278147 ]

So, 04 Juni 2006 23:10

Jean Lamb

There are a couple of lovely fanfics using this theme, but perhaps simply
bringing the Horcruxes to the site of battle will be enough--

IF Voldemort brings Dementors with him (munch munch go the Dementors,
they're HUNGRY dammit!).

(the story I think uses this theme the best is "Pumblechook" on Ashwinder,
some of which is from the Dementor's point of view--the Dementor was fired
because he was in charge of Sirius Black, who escaped, and Never Got Over
It).

--
Jean Lamb, tlambs1138 [at] charter.net
"Research is hard. Torturing heroes is fun."--Mary Jo Putney

Re: Horcux Guardians and Harry's Blood [message #278154 ]

Mo, 05 Juni 2006 01:57

wadkin2000

Karnak17 wrote:
> JoeMo wrote:
> > I just read a Scribbulus essay on the Leaky Cauldron called "His Own
> > Worst Enemy: Harry as a Horcrux" By ~Mokey.
> >
> > http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/scribbulus/textonly.php?m= essay:208
> >
> > and though I don't agree with the main premise of the essay, the author
> > metioned
> > 2. Harry's blood, and not Harry himself will kill Voldemort in the end.

> > >From the article...

> > "'He said my blood would make him stronger than if he'd used someone
> > else's." Harry told Dumbledore. "He said the protection my - my
> > mother left in me - he'd have it too. And he was right - he could

That's a theory that's been mentioned for awhile, and IMO, a good one.
It's quite possible that when V used Harry's blood to resurrect, it
either prevents V from making further horcruxes or HE now has love
flowing through his veins unbeknownst to him.

> > An interesting connection between the "gleam of triumph" and the end of
> > Harry's protection as he comes of age. How will this change the
> > Harry/Voldemort dynamic? Will Voldemort lose the ability to touch
> > Harry, or gain the ability back to make Horcruxes? Maybe Voldemort's
> > heart will grow three sizes that day, and decide to be Harry's slave
> > for life to repay him all the unkindness of the past.
> >
> > Speculation anyone?
>
> Well, THAT would certainly explain the gleam of triumph. That guy is
> right. Harry's protection DOES run out when he comes of age.
> Therefore, Voldy's will too. So I agree that Harry's coming of age
> will definitely be significant.

Isn't it just the additional protection that DD reinforced with his
magic when he brought Harry to the Dursley's that runs out? I was
under the impression that what he did was to strengthen the bonded
protection of blood from Lily.

Which does bring up an interesting question: Hypothetically, if Harry
were to find the remaining horcruxes and attempt to vanquish V before
his seventeenth birthday, would that mean that V couldn't kill him
because all the protections and charms are still in place?

Re: Horcux Guardians and Harry's Blood [message #278171 ]

Mo, 05 Juni 2006 10:02

Toon

On 4 Jun 2006 16:57:50 -0700, wadkin2000 [at] yahoo.com wrote:

>Isn't it just the additional protection that DD reinforced with his
>magic when he brought Harry to the Dursley's that runs out? I was
>under the impression that what he did was to strengthen the bonded
>protection of blood from Lily.

I think the spell DD cast was to recharge Lily's Love, hence why he
must return each year (or go to any place his mom's blood resides at
that he can call home.) If he doesn't, he loses Lily's protection.
and DD needs Lily's blood because Lily's spilled blood (figuratively)
saved Harry. So he needs it's love again to recharge his. As long as
Lily's bio family lets Harry call their abode home, that is love
towards Harry, and enough to keep Lily's sacrifice going. It's also
Petunia's only redeeming quality. She does love Harry, because she
lets him stay, fully knowing what he is and the trouble he can bring.
Even after Dudley's attack, and a quick reminder form DD, she still
wouldn't let him leave. Because she had to protect him. And that's
love. Minimlaistic as it is.

A point Dd made to Harry how in the end Petunia still let him live
there, despite her rather unpleasantness towards Harry 24/7.

Re: Horcux Guardians and Harry's Blood [message #278185 ]

Mo, 05 Juni 2006 17:01

Thomas Madura

John VanSickle wrote:
> JoeMo wrote:
>
>> I just read a Scribbulus essay on the Leaky Cauldron called "His Own
>> Worst Enemy: Harry as a Horcrux" By ~Mokey.
>>
>> http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/scribbulus/textonly.php?m= essay:208
>>
>> and though I don't agree with the main premise of the essay, the author
>> metioned two things I thought were really good and deserved discussion.
>>
>> 1. Each Horcrux has a Death Eater " Guardian".
>
>
> Dumbledore stated that Voldemort believes to be the only one who knows
> about his Horcruxes. Given that dictators and would-be dictators (like
> Voldemort) are paranoid about being bumped off, this is likely true.
>
> Lucius did *not* know that the diary was a Horcrux.

That may be the case - but according to V himself - when he returned -
the Death eaters did know about the Horcruxes in some way - since V
mentioned that they knew He (V) had made safeguards to prevent him from
being killed.

>
>> 2. Harry's blood, and not Harry himself will kill Voldemort in the end.
>
>
> Well, in the slash, Harry is HIV positive, and some of it gets in
> Voldemort's eyes...
>
>> Speculation anyone?

In the end - it will be an accumulation of things that will kill V - and
having Harry's blood in him will be one factor - but I doubt that the
blood alone will kill V - since it has not done so already. Harry will
have to eliminate all of the Horcruxes left before V can die (ALthouhg I
guess it is possible that some of the Horcruxes would be destroyed by
others).

>
>
> I think the whole Horcrux situation is a red herring to distract us from
> the way Harry will actually defeat Voldemort. It took Dumbledore
> *years* of effort to locate one of the Horcruxes, he only thought he
> knew where a second one was, and a third was dropped, providentially, on
> his desk. The idea that Harry, even with help, with find the remaining
> unaccounted-for three Horcruxes (not counting Nagini) is a bit hard to
> accept, even for a fantasy series.

Without destroying the Horcruxes - V cannot really die.

>
> Voldemort's Horcruxes will not save him.
>
> Regards,
> John

Re: Horcux Guardians and Harry's Blood [message #278202 ]

Mo, 05 Juni 2006 19:17

JoeMo

John VanSickle wrote:
> JoeMo wrote:
> > I just read a Scribbulus essay on the Leaky Cauldron called "His Own
> > Worst Enemy: Harry as a Horcrux" By ~Mokey.
> >
> > http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/scribbulus/textonly.php?m= essay:208
> >
> > and though I don't agree with the main premise of the essay, the author
> > metioned two things I thought were really good and deserved discussion.
> >
> > 1. Each Horcrux has a Death Eater " Guardian".
>
> Dumbledore stated that Voldemort believes to be the only one who knows
> about his Horcruxes. Given that dictators and would-be dictators (like
> Voldemort) are paranoid about being bumped off, this is likely true.
>
> Lucius did *not* know that the diary was a Horcrux.
>

Just because there is a Death Eater guardian doesn't mean that they
have to know what they're guarding. As you said yourself, Lucius didn't
know the diary was a horcrux. It would be really easy for V. to have a
Death Eater guarding each horcrux without clueing them in on what
they're doing. For example, "Hey RAB! I need you to watch over this old
cave. Make sure no wizards ever get in. And if they try kill them....
Why? Because I said so... And don't question Lord Voldemort. CRUCIO!"

> > 2. Harry's blood, and not Harry himself will kill Voldemort in the end.
>
> Well, in the slash, Harry is HIV positive, and some of it gets in
> Voldemort's eyes...
>
> > Speculation anyone?
>
> I think the whole Horcrux situation is a red herring to distract us from
> the way Harry will actually defeat Voldemort. It took Dumbledore
> *years* of effort to locate one of the Horcruxes, he only thought he
> knew where a second one was, and a third was dropped, providentially, on
> his desk. The idea that Harry, even with help, with find the remaining
> unaccounted-for three Horcruxes (not counting Nagini) is a bit hard to
> accept, even for a fantasy series.
>
> Voldemort's Horcruxes will not save him.
>
> Regards,
> John

You might be right... but the way JKR talks in interviews about it
makes is seem pretty clear that he will have to find the horcruxes and
deal with them first. I know DD's way powerful and stuff, but he never
shared a mental connection with LV like Harry has. I think that will
help him find them much faster than DD could have.

Re: Horcux Guardians and Harry's Blood [message #278206 ]

Mo, 05 Juni 2006 19:45

JoeMo

wadkin2000 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> Karnak17 wrote:
> > JoeMo wrote:
> > > I just read a Scribbulus essay on the Leaky Cauldron called "His Own
> > > Worst Enemy: Harry as a Horcrux" By ~Mokey.
> > >
> > > http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/scribbulus/textonly.php?m= essay:208
> > >
> > > and though I don't agree with the main premise of the essay, the author
> > > metioned
> > > 2. Harry's blood, and not Harry himself will kill Voldemort in the end.
>
> > > >From the article...
>
> > > "'He said my blood would make him stronger than if he'd used someone
> > > else's." Harry told Dumbledore. "He said the protection my - my
> > > mother left in me - he'd have it too. And he was right - he could
>
> That's a theory that's been mentioned for awhile, and IMO, a good one.
> It's quite possible that when V used Harry's blood to resurrect, it
> either prevents V from making further horcruxes or HE now has love
> flowing through his veins unbeknownst to him.

Yeah, I've read the theory about how Lilly's sacrifice might keep V.
from making new Horcruxes... Something I tend to agree with... But I
haven't ever read anything about the protection running out being
linked to DD's gleam of triumph.

>
> > > An interesting connection between the "gleam of triumph" and the end of
> > > Harry's protection as he comes of age. How will this change the
> > > Harry/Voldemort dynamic? Will Voldemort lose the ability to touch
> > > Harry, or gain the ability back to make Horcruxes? Maybe Voldemort's
> > > heart will grow three sizes that day, and decide to be Harry's slave
> > > for life to repay him all the unkindness of the past.
> > >
> > > Speculation anyone?
> >
> > Well, THAT would certainly explain the gleam of triumph. That guy is
> > right. Harry's protection DOES run out when he comes of age.
> > Therefore, Voldy's will too. So I agree that Harry's coming of age
> > will definitely be significant.
>
> Isn't it just the additional protection that DD reinforced with his
> magic when he brought Harry to the Dursley's that runs out? I was
> under the impression that what he did was to strengthen the bonded
> protection of blood from Lily.

The thing that interests me is that we really know very little about
the protection that Harry gained from his mother.

What do we know?

By sacrificing her own life, she gave Harry a protection that

a. rebounded the unreboundable AK curse
b. made it impossible for V. to touch him
c. keeps him safe from V. while he's at the Dursleys

a & b are related, as they're both physical protection from harm. You
could also say that a & b are "innate" qualities of the protection.
Something that was a direct result of this "ancient magic" as DD called
it.

But c is different. It's what DD himself did for Harry. He gave him
this extra "shield". This will definately run out when Harry turns 17,
whether or not he can still call the Dursley's house his home.

However, will the protections in a & b run out when Harry comes of age
too? I think there's a kind of poetry in the idea that a mother's
protection (magically speaking too) can't last forever. Once Harry
becomes a man he has to protect himself.

Now, if the spell breaks for a & b when Harry comes of age, what will
happen to Voldemort? The whole reason he wanted Harry's blood was for
this protection. But will Harry's blood affect him if the protection
stops to work? Would it taint him with "pity" and other emotions,
making him weaker? I don't know... I'm still kind of trying to work
through the thought process... :)

>
> Which does bring up an interesting question: Hypothetically, if Harry
> were to find the remaining horcruxes and attempt to vanquish V before
> his seventeenth birthday, would that mean that V couldn't kill him
> because all the protections and charms are still in place?

I've always wondered if Lilly's protection has helped him stay alive
outside of Privet Drive too. I imagine it would. I doubt anyone could
manage to kill Harry before he comes of age. Especially because the
author kind of needs him for the last book. (*groan*)

Re: Horcux Guardians and Harry's Blood [message #278208 ]

Mo, 05 Juni 2006 20:15

Alicia

> Now, if the spell breaks for a & b when Harry comes of age, what will
> happen to Voldemort? The whole reason he wanted Harry's blood was for
> this protection.

"Blood of the enemy, forcibly taken" - I expect to be bashed for this
but I believe he also wanted his blood, simply, because this was part
of the spell he himself created (based on elements of ancient magic as
he himself's said) and Voldemort has no worse enemy than Harry, and
this fact alone would make the spell work way better. Now with this and
the protection... guarranteed satisfaction (at least for the moment)

As for the other matter, I believe it's Dumbledore's spell that will
come to an end when Harry comes of age, but Lily's love and sacrifice
will never be over, at least in some ways, even if Voldemort loses the
ability to touch Harry, etc, I believe he will still have special
protections or "traits" (I wouldn't know how to call them) to last for
his whole life.

Re: Horcux Guardians and Harry's Blood [message #281400 ]

Di, 06 Juni 2006 10:24

Toon

On 5 Jun 2006 10:45:16 -0700, "JoeMo" <josephrmoore [at] gmail.com> wrote:

>I've always wondered if Lilly's protection has helped him stay alive
>outside of Privet Drive too. I imagine it would. I doubt anyone could
>manage to kill Harry before he comes of age. Especially because the
>author kind of needs him for the last book. (*groan*)

An only Vodlemort can kill him.

Re: Horcux Guardians and Harry's Blood [message #281448 ]

Mi, 07 Juni 2006 04:08

Thomas Madura

Toon wrote:
> On 5 Jun 2006 10:45:16 -0700, "JoeMo" <josephrmoore [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>I've always wondered if Lilly's protection has helped him stay alive
>>outside of Privet Drive too. I imagine it would. I doubt anyone could
>>manage to kill Harry before he comes of age. Especially because the
>>author kind of needs him for the last book. (*groan*)
>
>
> An only Vodlemort can kill him.

No - the prophecy does not say that - and we have had a thread on this
subject.

The prophecy only says that the one with the power to vanquish the dark
lord - ie Harry - etc - which means that only the one V marked - Harry _
has the power to vanquish the Dark Lord -V.

It says nothing about whether the Dark Lord has the power to Vanquish
Harry (hint - he doesn't) or that anyone else is precluded from having
that power either (THey won't either).

Re: Horcux Guardians and Harry's Blood [message #281553 ]

Do, 08 Juni 2006 19:50

wadkin2000

Thom Madura wrote:
> Toon wrote:
> > On 5 Jun 2006 10:45:16 -0700, "JoeMo" <josephrmoore [at] gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>I've always wondered if Lilly's protection has helped him stay alive
> >>outside of Privet Drive too. I imagine it would. I doubt anyone could
> >>manage to kill Harry before he comes of age. Especially because the
> >>author kind of needs him for the last book. (*groan*)

I've always wondered about the whole "Lily's protection" storyline
because that particular scene from SS at Godric's Hollow was supposed
to have been done explicitly according to JK's input. JK said that
James was going to be killed anyway (Leaky Cauldron interview '05).
Lily was given a clear choice to live.

Under the heading of "wild and wacky theories": Since Lily was so
gifted in Charms and Potions and was Slughorn's student, perhaps she
knew about horcruxes and the horcrux spell.

We know that the AK is supposed to be the only curse that is
unblockable. Going on that premise, the horcrux creating spell would
not be. Perhaps V began that BEFORE AK'ing Lily, hence the dialogue:
"Not Harry! Please, I'll do anything! Please, take me, kill me
instead." She was offering him a trade or a wizard's contract...her
life for Harry's... (we know how seriously these things are viewed in
the WW: the unbreakable vows, the "binding" magical contracts; there
seems to be serious consequences if they're broken...LOL, death, for
example with the UV!)

She interferes with the horcrux spell, hoping that he will kill her
because that is what will "seal the deal" so to speak (ancient magic)
and he AKs her. Now, before anyone says why would she want him to kill
her, my thought is that if he only stuns her, the contract's protection
wouldn't be in place. He could still kill Harry after she's stunned.
When he then tries to kill Harry and fails, it's because the
"agreement" between V and Lily was that he would kill her, and leave
Harry. V, in effect, broke the rules of the contract. Harry now has
Lily's protection in him.

> > An only Vodlemort can kll him.
>
> No - the prophecy does not say that - and we have had a thread on this
> subject.
>
> The prophecy only says that the one with the power to vanquish the dark
> lord - ie Harry - etc - which means that only the one V marked - Harry _
> has the power to vanquish the Dark Lord -V.
>
> It says nothing about whether the Dark Lord has the power to Vanquish
> Harry (hint - he doesn't) or that anyone else is precluded from having
> that power either (THey won't either).

IMO, I somehow feel that vanquish is the operative word in the
prophecy, since it literally doesn't mean "kill". Considering the
themes that JK has tried to put forth in the books, pureness of heart,
good vs evil, choices, etc. I can't see Harry doing the actual
"killing" of Voldemort. He could possibly put a chain of events in
motion that results in V's demise, or circumstances that would result
in someone else doing the killing, but I don't think she'll have Harry
do the actual deed himself. IMO, there are too many occurrences in the
books that show he couldn't do it.

Another theory I've been kicking around (and this is in response to
JK's wording the prophecy very, very carefully), any chance that she
took Tom Riddle and Lord Voldemort as two separate entities...i.e.,
"Either (Tom Riddle or Harry) must die at the hand of the other (Lord
Voldemort) for neither can live while the other survives." It still
would mean that there are only two physical beings involved in the
prophecy and it could then also mean that V causes his own demise. I
know that one's really, really stretching the limits, but I just
thought I'd throw it out there!

Re: Horcux Guardians and Harry's Blood [message #281595 ]

Fr, 09 Juni 2006 07:11

Toon

On 8 Jun 2006 10:50:58 -0700, wadkin2000 [at] yahoo.com wrote:

>I've always wondered about the whole "Lily's protection" storyline
>because that particular scene from SS at Godric's Hollow was supposed
>to have been done explicitly according to JK's input. JK said that
>James was going to be killed anyway (Leaky Cauldron interview '05).
>Lily was given a clear choice to live.
>
>Under the heading of "wild and wacky theories": Since Lily was so
>gifted in Charms and Potions and was Slughorn's student, perhaps she
>knew about horcruxes and the horcrux spell.
>
>We know that the AK is supposed to be the only curse that is
>unblockable. Going on that premise, the horcrux creating spell would
>not be. Perhaps V began that BEFORE AK'ing Lily, hence the dialogue:
>"Not Harry! Please, I'll do anything! Please, take me, kill me
>instead." She was offering him a trade or a wizard's contract...her
>life for Harry's... (we know how seriously these things are viewed in
>the WW: the unbreakable vows, the "binding" magical contracts; there
>seems to be serious consequences if they're broken...LOL, death, for
>example with the UV!)
>
>She interferes with the horcrux spell, hoping that he will kill her
>because that is what will "seal the deal" so to speak (ancient magic)
>and he AKs her. Now, before anyone says why would she want him to kill
>her, my thought is that if he only stuns her, the contract's protection
>wouldn't be in place. He could still kill Harry after she's stunned.
>When he then tries to kill Harry and fails, it's because the
>"agreement" between V and Lily was that he would kill her, and leave
>Harry. V, in effect, broke the rules of the contract. Harry now has
>Lily's protection in him.

Not bad, but Lily didn't do anything premeditatedly. She just
sacrificed herself in some unique way, unknowingly.

Vorheriges Thema:	a newbie's potterological theories
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