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Fantasy » alt.fan.harry-potter » V still in the background...
| V still in the background... [message #270271] |
Mo, 29 Mai 2006 06:26 |
|
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Who benefits when he's angrier with Snape and Draco than Voldemort? Who =
had=20
obvious access to Harry's mind in book 5, and then supposedly Suddenly=20
Disappears from there in book 6?=20
Uh-huh. Mr. Riddle his own self.=20
Who could easily be lying low and manipulating Harry simply by =
emphasizing=20
the known traits of Gryffindor--excessive loyalty to friends in the face =
of=20
wrong-doing, 'I know it all, don't bother with the facts' and 'I am on a =
quest for good therefore it doesn't matter what tactics I used' and 'I =
must=20
avenge the murder of the innocent' and 'only I really know what's going =
on'?=20
Why, Moldy Voldy himself. He was caught out in book 5--and how much was=20
Kreacher manipulating Sirius Black? How much was Voldy encouraging Harry =
to=20
listen to Sirius instead of to Remus? And Harry changed even more in =
book 6.=20
Dumbledore tried, often with almost brute force, to make Harry =
concentrate=20
on Voldemort. Yet Harry 'hared off' so to speak after Draco, often to =
the=20
detriment of what he really needed to do. I suspect it would be very =
easy=20
indeed to make Harry focus on the short term instead of the long term. =
And=20
if Snape is the only one who can really teach Harry Occlumency, then =
create=20
antagonism between them and make sure Harry never goes back. Snape was =
in a=20
fix, though--if he doesn't succeed, Harry becomes a conduit for the Dark =
Lord. If he does succeed, he's up for various and interesting methods of =
punishment. I suppose Dumbledore wanted Harry and Snape to see how much =
they=20
are alike, but putting Snape's head on the chopping block no matter =
which=20
way things go--well, his normal operational method, it appears to me so =
far.=20
Snape is expendable, and I suspect we'll see him die on Book 7 even if =
he's proven to be on the side of the Order all along, and only killing =
Dumbledore on orders, or because DD became an inferi from drinking that =
awful potion. He could have delivered Harry to Voldie, said "Happy =
Christmas" and "Game Over" without violating V.'s orders at all. But =
Harry won't think of that. If Harry does somehow cause Snape's death, =
and later finds out (say the portrait wakes up) that Snape was still =
working for the Order--well, he'll get over it even more quickly than he =
did almost killing Draco. But I suspect not everyone will be quite so =
sanguine. My personal prediction.=20
Here's hoping Harry _does_ have a wakeup call and realizes Moldy Voldy =
has been there all along, rather like the NSA and the U.S. telephone =
system. I liked him very much up till book 4. But Voldy returned at the =
end of it. Harry has been headed downhill ever since. Yes, he has =
reasons. But I think the Occlumency was far more important than anyone =
realizes so far.=20
Just a few thoughts to brighten your day...
Jean Lamb, tlambs1138 [at] charter.net
"Research is hard. Torturing heroes is fun."--Mary Jo Putney
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<DIV>Who benefits when he's angrier with Snape and Draco than Voldemort? =
Who had=20
<BR>obvious access to Harry's mind in book 5, and then supposedly =
Suddenly=20
<BR>Disappears from there in book 6?=20
<P>Uh-huh. Mr. Riddle his own self. </P>
<P>Who could easily be lying low and manipulating Harry simply by =
emphasizing=20
<BR>the known traits of Gryffindor--excessive loyalty to friends in the =
face of=20
<BR>wrong-doing, 'I know it all, don't bother with the facts' and 'I am =
on a=20
<BR>quest for good therefore it doesn't matter what tactics I used' and =
'I must=20
<BR>avenge the murder of the innocent' and 'only I really know what's =
going on'?=20
<BR>Why, Moldy Voldy himself. He was caught out in book 5--and how much =
was=20
<BR>Kreacher manipulating Sirius Black? How much was Voldy encouraging =
Harry to=20
<BR>listen to Sirius instead of to Remus? And Harry changed even more in =
book 6.=20
<BR>Dumbledore tried, often with almost brute force, to make Harry =
concentrate=20
<BR>on Voldemort. Yet Harry 'hared off' so to speak after Draco, often =
to the=20
<BR>detriment of what he really needed to do. I suspect it would be very =
easy=20
<BR>indeed to make Harry focus on the short term instead of the long =
term. And=20
<BR>if Snape is the only one who can really teach Harry Occlumency, then =
create=20
<BR>antagonism between them and make sure Harry never goes back. Snape =
was in a=20
<BR>fix, though--if he doesn't succeed, Harry becomes a conduit for the =
Dark=20
<BR>Lord. If he does succeed, he's up for various and interesting =
methods of=20
<BR>punishment. I suppose Dumbledore wanted Harry and Snape to see how =
much they=20
<BR>are alike, but putting Snape's head on the chopping block no matter =
which=20
<BR>way things go--well, his normal operational method, it appears to me =
so far.=20
</P>
<P>Snape is expendable, and I suspect we'll see him die on Book 7 even =
if he's=20
proven to be on the side of the Order all along, and only killing =
Dumbledore on=20
orders, or because DD became an inferi from drinking that awful potion. =
He could=20
have delivered Harry to Voldie, said "Happy Christmas" and "Game Over" =
without=20
violating V.'s orders at all. But Harry won't think of that. If Harry =
does=20
somehow cause Snape's death, and later finds out (say the portrait wakes =
up)=20
that Snape was still working for the Order--well, he'll get over it even =
more=20
quickly than he did almost killing Draco. But I suspect not everyone =
will be=20
quite so sanguine. My personal prediction. </P>
<P>Here's hoping Harry _does_ have a wakeup call and realizes Moldy =
Voldy has=20
been there all along, rather like the NSA and the U.S. telephone system. =
I liked=20
him very much up till book 4. But Voldy returned at the end of it. Harry =
has=20
been headed downhill ever since. Yes, he has reasons. But I think the =
Occlumency=20
was far more important than anyone realizes so far. </P></DIV>
<DIV>Just a few thoughts to brighten your day...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>Jean Lamb, <A=20
href=3D"mailto:tlambs1138 [at] charter.net">tlambs1138 [at] charter.net</A><BR>"Res=
earch is=20
hard. Torturing heroes is fun."--Mary Jo Putney</DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_00BD_01C6829D.66532840--
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| Re: V still in the background... [message #270503 ] |
Fr, 02 Juni 2006 02:34 |
|
Jean Lamb wrote:
> Who benefits when he's angrier with Snape and Draco than Voldemort? Who had
> obvious access to Harry's mind in book 5, and then supposedly Suddenly
> Disappears from there in book 6?
> Uh-huh. Mr. Riddle his own self.
>
> Who could easily be lying low and manipulating Harry simply by emphasizing
> the known traits of Gryffindor--excessive loyalty to friends in the face of
> wrong-doing, 'I know it all, don't bother with the facts' and 'I am on a
> quest for good therefore it doesn't matter what tactics I used' and 'I must
> avenge the murder of the innocent' and 'only I really know what's going on'?
> Why, Moldy Voldy himself.
But Harry is so full of all that love, isn't he? Surely Voldy would
find his loving soul a far too painful place to reside. *_*
>He was caught out in book 5--and how much was
> Kreacher manipulating Sirius Black? How much was Voldy encouraging Harry to
> listen to Sirius instead of to Remus? And Harry changed even more in book 6.
> Dumbledore tried, often with almost brute force, to make Harry concentrate
> on Voldemort. Yet Harry 'hared off' so to speak after Draco, often to the
> detriment of what he really needed to do. I suspect it would be very easy
> indeed to make Harry focus on the short term instead of the long term. And
> if Snape is the only one who can really teach Harry Occlumency, then create
> antagonism between them and make sure Harry never goes back. Snape was in a
> fix, though--if he doesn't succeed, Harry becomes a conduit for the Dark
> Lord. If he does succeed, he's up for various and interesting methods of
> punishment. I suppose Dumbledore wanted Harry and Snape to see how much they
> are alike, but putting Snape's head on the chopping block no matter which
> way things go--well, his normal operational method, it appears to me so far.
That was a weird setup, clearly. I mean, if Harry has Voldy in his
head, then why didn't DD teach Harry himself? Why make Snape do it.
Obviously DD (and Snape) knew that Voldy might have been privy to what
passed between Harry and Snape. Why didn't either of them have a
problem with this?
OTOH, giving the Occlumency job to Snape would assure Voldy that 1)
Snape was trusted by DD, and 2) give him the impression that DD didn't
care for Harry very much.
I suppose we have to assume that once "the jig was up", and Voldy know
that DD knew that he was in Harry's head, then Voldy pretty much
accepted that Snape would have to obey his orders and teach Harry
Occlumency.
> Snape is expendable, and I suspect we'll see him die on Book 7 even if he's proven to
>be on the side of the Order all along, and only killing Dumbledore on orders, or
>because DD became an inferi from drinking that awful potion. He could have delivered
>Harry to Voldie, said "Happy Christmas" and "Game Over" without violating V.'s orders
>at all.
How do you know? We don't know LV's orders. He might WANT Harry to
stay at Hogwarts and among the Good Guys for his own reasons. That is
sure what it looks like.
>But Harry won't think of that. If Harry does somehow cause Snape's death, and
>later finds out (say the portrait wakes up) that Snape was still working for the Order--
>well, he'll get over it even more quickly than he did almost killing Draco. But I suspect
>not everyone will be quite so sanguine. My personal prediction.
Everyone was pretty sanguine about him nearly killing Draco,
particularly Ginny. (Of course, she had LV in her head their too, for
a while, didn't she?)
> Here's hoping Harry _does_ have a wakeup call and realizes Moldy Voldy has been
>there all along, rather like the NSA and the U.S. telephone system. I liked him very
>much up till book 4. But Voldy returned at the end of it. Harry has been headed
>downhill ever since. Yes, he has reasons. But I think the Occlumency was far more
>important than anyone realizes so far.
Harry was always a pretty angry kid. But I see your point. There is a
marked change in him after book 4. But of course, he suffers a great
trauma in bood 4 also, and more trauma and betrayal in book 5. And his
childhood has been horrific. Look how Dudley has turned out, without
any LV in his head.
The continuing connection between Harry and LV may be no more than the
fact that they are both human, and are therefore both prone to evil.
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