Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe.

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Fantasy » alt.fan.harry-potter » Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe.

Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269833]

So, 21 Mai 2006 01:20

Froggy

Ok, I think I may be the only person who has never read any of these books.
The movie was on pay per view and I thought, eh what the hell. Well, Damn
that was an awesome movie! I now want to read the books! I tell you it was
just like what happened with me and the HP series. I had seen the first two
movies then read all the books! Ok, all that being said, are there other
series out there that I'm missing out on? When I was little my mom wouldn't
let me read the Chronicles of Narnia. <Shrug> I still don't know why
/thinks to meself, I gotta ask her. Ok, back to your regularly scheduled
programs!

--
~Froggy~

From there to here,
from here to there,
funny things
are everywhere.
--Dr. Suess

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269834 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 01:38

mystic

Froggy wrote:
> Ok, I think I may be the only person who has never read any of these books.
> The movie was on pay per view and I thought, eh what the hell. Well, Damn
> that was an awesome movie! I now want to read the books! I tell you it was
> just like what happened with me and the HP series. I had seen the first two
> movies then read all the books! Ok, all that being said, are there other
> series out there that I'm missing out on? When I was little my mom wouldn't
> let me read the Chronicles of Narnia. <Shrug> I still don't know why
> /thinks to meself, I gotta ask her. Ok, back to your regularly scheduled
> programs!
>
My favorites are McCaffrey's "Dragonriders of Pern" and Zelazny's Amber
series.

Neither of them have been made to movies, but both should be.

*MYSTIC*

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269835 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 01:40

Froggy

"*MYSTIC*" <mystic [at] thecave.net> wrote in message
news:446fa75e$0$3682$822641b3 [at] news.adtechcomputers.com...
> Froggy wrote:
>> Ok, I think I may be the only person who has never read any of these
>> books. The movie was on pay per view and I thought, eh what the hell.
>> Well, Damn that was an awesome movie! I now want to read the books! I
>> tell you it was just like what happened with me and the HP series. I had
>> seen the first two movies then read all the books! Ok, all that being
>> said, are there other series out there that I'm missing out on? When I
>> was little my mom wouldn't let me read the Chronicles of Narnia. <Shrug>
>> I still don't know why /thinks to meself, I gotta ask her. Ok, back to
>> your regularly scheduled programs!
>>
> My favorites are McCaffrey's "Dragonriders of Pern" and Zelazny's Amber
> series.
>

How many books in each? It looks like I'll have a LONG summer reading list
;)
--
~Froggy~

From there to here,
from here to there,
funny things
are everywhere.
--Dr. Suess

> Neither of them have been made to movies, but both should be.
>
> *MYSTIC*
>

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269841 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 03:54

dpevers

Froggy wrote:
> Ok, all that being said, are there other
> series out there that I'm missing out on?

J.R.R. Tolkein: The Lord of the Rings, the Hobbit, and the Silmarillion.
If you really need more to read, the History of Middle Earth, all 12
volumes.

Isaac Asimov: The Foundation Series (the six volume trilogy), and the
Robot series with precedes it in time.

Frank Herbert: The Dune Series. Anything outside the original 8
volumes doesn't do much for me.

James Michener: Not series, but big meaty books heavy on history.

That should keep you busy for a while.

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269843 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 04:56

Matt Clara

"Froggy" <shelbel007_2000 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2ONbg.4999$y4.1931 [at] newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "*MYSTIC*" <mystic [at] thecave.net> wrote in message
> news:446fa75e$0$3682$822641b3 [at] news.adtechcomputers.com...
>> Froggy wrote:
>>> Ok, I think I may be the only person who has never read any of these
>>> books. The movie was on pay per view and I thought, eh what the hell.
>>> Well, Damn that was an awesome movie! I now want to read the books! I
>>> tell you it was just like what happened with me and the HP series. I
>>> had seen the first two movies then read all the books! Ok, all that
>>> being said, are there other series out there that I'm missing out on?
>>> When I was little my mom wouldn't let me read the Chronicles of Narnia.
>>> <Shrug> I still don't know why /thinks to meself, I gotta ask her. Ok,
>>> back to your regularly scheduled programs!
>>>
>> My favorites are McCaffrey's "Dragonriders of Pern" and Zelazny's Amber
>> series.
>>
>
> How many books in each? It looks like I'll have a LONG summer reading
> list ;)
> --
> ~Froggy~
>
> From there to here,
> from here to there,
> funny things
> are everywhere.
> --Dr. Suess
>
>> Neither of them have been made to movies, but both should be.
>>
>> *MYSTIC*
>>
>
>

Agreeing, and along the same lines: Patricia McKillip's Star Bearer
Triliogy, Susan Cooper's Dark is Rising series, and Madeline L'Engle's A
Wrinkle In Time (series, excluding A Wind in the Door, which wasn't that
good). More recently, but highly recommended, Clive Barker's Abarat series
(as good or better than Harry Potter) and Garth Nix's Keys to the Kingdom
series. Also, anything else by Garth Nix. And here's a few more
contemporary favorites, Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere, Stardust, and his
collection of short stories, Smoke and Illusions--Gaiman is a master of his
craft.

--
Regards,
Matt Clara
www.mattclara.com

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269844 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 04:57

Deevo

"*MYSTIC*" <mystic [at] thecave.net> wrote in message
news:446fa75e$0$3682$822641b3 [at] news.adtechcomputers.com...
> Froggy wrote:
>> Ok, I think I may be the only person who has never read any of these
>> books. The movie was on pay per view and I thought, eh what the hell.
>> Well, Damn that was an awesome movie! I now want to read the books! I
>> tell you it was just like what happened with me and the HP series. I had
>> seen the first two movies then read all the books! Ok, all that being
>> said, are there other series out there that I'm missing out on? When I
>> was little my mom wouldn't let me read the Chronicles of Narnia. <Shrug>
>> I still don't know why /thinks to meself, I gotta ask her. Ok, back to
>> your regularly scheduled programs!
>>
> My favorites are McCaffrey's "Dragonriders of Pern" and Zelazny's Amber
> series.
>
> Neither of them have been made to movies, but both should be.

There was an interesting hypothetical casting discussion on Anne McCaffrey's
website a few years back, the only candidate I can recall now was Claudia
Christian for Lessa, though I always thought George Takei would have made a
great Kenjo.

To be frank I don't think Pern would translate well onto the big screen,
it's in some ways epic but in others very focussed on small groups of
individual characters and their trials and Anne has always been very
protective of the series, even moreso than Jo has been with Harry Potter.
--
Deevo
Geraldton Western Australia
http://members.westnet.com.au/mckenzie/index.htm

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269845 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 05:04

Deevo

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269849 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 06:55

Weird Beard

On Sat, 20 May 2006 23:20:00 GMT, "Froggy" <shelbel007_2000 [at] yahoo.com>
wrote the following in alt.fan.harry-potter:

> Ok, I think I may be the only person who has never read any of these
> books. The movie was on pay per view and I thought, eh what the hell.
> Well, Damn that was an awesome movie! I now want to read the books!

Go to it. My only advice is to read them for the first time at least in
publication order: Lion, Caspian, Voyage, Chair, Horse, Nephew, Battle.

When you reread them, you can read them in chronological order.

> I tell you it was just like what happened with me and the HP series.
> I had seen the first two movies then read all the books!

That's how I got into Redwall, actually, by watching the PBS versions of
a few of the books.
> Ok, all
> that being said, are there other series out there that I'm missing out
> on?

Discworld, probably since there's no Hollywood movie version to draw
attention to it.

When I was little my mom wouldn't let me read the Chronicles of
> Narnia. <Shrug> I still don't know why /thinks to meself, I gotta ask
> her. Ok, back to your regularly scheduled programs!
>
I remember a big debate years ago on a diferrent group. Some of the
participants liked them as kids, but when they grew up resented being
"tricked" into reading Christian based fantasy.

--
"It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that certain je-ne-sais-quoi."
Peter Schickele

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269855 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 10:04

Toon

On Sat, 20 May 2006 23:20:00 GMT, "Froggy" <shelbel007_2000 [at] yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Ok, I think I may be the only person who has never read any of these books.
>The movie was on pay per view and I thought, eh what the hell. Well, Damn
>that was an awesome movie! I now want to read the books! I tell you it was
>just like what happened with me and the HP series. I had seen the first two
>movies then read all the books! Ok, all that being said, are there other
>series out there that I'm missing out on? When I was little my mom wouldn't
>let me read the Chronicles of Narnia. <Shrug> I still don't know why
>/thinks to meself, I gotta ask her. Ok, back to your regularly scheduled
>programs!

Might be the talking animals bit.

If you read them, start with the Magician's Nephew. It's
chronologically first, and shows the Creation of Narinia. Ignore the
numbers on the books. There published order.

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269856 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 10:17

Toon

On Sat, 20 May 2006 23:40:46 GMT, "Froggy" <shelbel007_2000 [at] yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
>"*MYSTIC*" <mystic [at] thecave.net> wrote in message
>news:446fa75e$0$3682$822641b3 [at] news.adtechcomputers.com...
>> Froggy wrote:
>>> Ok, I think I may be the only person who has never read any of these
>>> books. The movie was on pay per view and I thought, eh what the hell.
>>> Well, Damn that was an awesome movie! I now want to read the books! I
>>> tell you it was just like what happened with me and the HP series. I had
>>> seen the first two movies then read all the books! Ok, all that being
>>> said, are there other series out there that I'm missing out on? When I
>>> was little my mom wouldn't let me read the Chronicles of Narnia. <Shrug>
>>> I still don't know why /thinks to meself, I gotta ask her. Ok, back to
>>> your regularly scheduled programs!
>>>
>> My favorites are McCaffrey's "Dragonriders of Pern" and Zelazny's Amber
>> series.
>>
>
>How many books in each? It looks like I'll have a LONG summer reading list
>;)

Read David Brin's 2 Uplift Series (2 and 3 books respectively).
Sundiver can be skipped as it's set way before the Uplift series.

Thye're about a universe where aliens must help other aliens gain
intelligence, as its impossible to do so on your own. Only the
Progentiors could do this solo. But humans show up, insist they did
it themselves (kind alike someone insisting their the same as Jesus
Christ), and then further much up the 5 Galaxies when they apparently
find the hibernating progenitors. As the known universe has fallen
into chaos, every major alien clan wants the progenitors to so they
can reshape galactic society in their favor. The Earthship wants to
survive long enough to return to Earth so they can share their
findings.

But you'll have to enjoy beloved apes and dolphins who can fly their
own spaceships and talk and act all human like.

The first two series (Startide Rising & The Uplift War) involve a
hiding out on a water planet, and the need to escape when found, and
the second involves an alein race invading a human colony planet, and
trying to steal ownership of the Chimps from humans. But a very rare
event, never before occurring in recorded history occurs at the end.
(also in one volume called Earthclan)

The next 3 books (Brightness Reef, Infinity's Shore, & Heaven's Reach)
invovle a planet called Jijo, where 6 alien races have hidden
themselves illegally, and are awaiting the day they are found out. But
trouble ensues when their discoveries are criminals, and invaders come
thereafter.

These 3 have several plotlines, and one involves 4 alien children, and
the storylines, by their perspective. In the end, it's hinted that
the 6 illegal races might have been manipulated all along. and might
be part of something even bigger. And Galactic Socierty undergoes a
major change that reshapes everything.

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269857 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 10:20

Toon

On Sat, 20 May 2006 22:56:01 -0400, "Matt Clara" <hey.wood.y [at] buzz.off>
wrote:

>Agreeing, and along the same lines: Patricia McKillip's Star Bearer
>Triliogy, Susan Cooper's Dark is Rising series, and Madeline L'Engle's A
>Wrinkle In Time (series, excluding A Wind in the Door, which wasn't that
>good). More recently, but highly recommended, Clive Barker's Abarat series
>(as good or better than Harry Potter) and Garth Nix's Keys to the Kingdom
>series. Also, anything else by Garth Nix. And here's a few more
>contemporary favorites, Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere, Stardust, and his
>collection of short stories, Smoke and Illusions--Gaiman is a master of his
>craft.

Another wizard series is Diane Dunne's Young Wizard Series (some 8
books now), about Iwo kids who each find a magic instruction manual,
and become wizards. They spend their time learning magic, and
fighting the Lone Power, whom humans would call The Devil.

And wizards are everywhere, humans, aliens, whales. The oceans
themselves are instruction books for sea wizards.

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269863 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 11:02

dsueme

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269868 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 15:45

Froggy

"David Sueme" <dsueme [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1148202135.099746.286970 [at] i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Froggy wrote:
>> Ok, I think I may be the only person who has never read any of these
>> books.
>> The movie was on pay per view and I thought, eh what the hell. Well,
>> Damn
>> that was an awesome movie! I now want to read the books!
>
> So Froggy - do you "get" who Aslan really is?
>
> Don't tell her - let Froggy either know it or I'll hint her to it.
>
> Dave
>

I have an Idea, it does seem to have parellels to the Bible.... not sure
though....
--
~Froggy~
-------------------------

Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions.
Small people always do that, but the really
great make you feel that you, too, can become great.

~Mark Twain~

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269869 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 15:45

Froggy

"Matt Clara" <hey.wood.y [at] buzz.off> wrote in message
news:AoidnVo8laE7S_LZRVn-pw [at] comcast.com...
> "Froggy" <shelbel007_2000 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:2ONbg.4999$y4.1931 [at] newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>> "*MYSTIC*" <mystic [at] thecave.net> wrote in message
>> news:446fa75e$0$3682$822641b3 [at] news.adtechcomputers.com...
>>> Froggy wrote:
>>>> Ok, I think I may be the only person who has never read any of these
>>>> books. The movie was on pay per view and I thought, eh what the hell.
>>>> Well, Damn that was an awesome movie! I now want to read the books! I
>>>> tell you it was just like what happened with me and the HP series. I
>>>> had seen the first two movies then read all the books! Ok, all that
>>>> being said, are there other series out there that I'm missing out on?
>>>> When I was little my mom wouldn't let me read the Chronicles of Narnia.
>>>> <Shrug> I still don't know why /thinks to meself, I gotta ask her. Ok,
>>>> back to your regularly scheduled programs!
>>>>
>>> My favorites are McCaffrey's "Dragonriders of Pern" and Zelazny's Amber
>>> series.
>>>
>>
>> How many books in each? It looks like I'll have a LONG summer reading
>> list ;)
>> --
>> ~Froggy~
>>
>> From there to here,
>> from here to there,
>> funny things
>> are everywhere.
>> --Dr. Suess
>>
>>> Neither of them have been made to movies, but both should be.
>>>
>>> *MYSTIC*
>>>
>>
>>
>
> Agreeing, and along the same lines: Patricia McKillip's Star Bearer
> Triliogy, Susan Cooper's Dark is Rising series, and Madeline L'Engle's A
> Wrinkle In Time (series, excluding A Wind in the Door, which wasn't that
> good). More recently, but highly recommended, Clive Barker's Abarat
> series (as good or better than Harry Potter) and Garth Nix's Keys to the
> Kingdom series. Also, anything else by Garth Nix. And here's a few more
> contemporary favorites, Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere, Stardust, and his
> collection of short stories, Smoke and Illusions--Gaiman is a master of
> his craft.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Matt Clara
> www.mattclara.com
>

Thank you, Matt.. I'm writing these all down.
--
~Froggy~
-------------------------

Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions.
Small people always do that, but the really
great make you feel that you, too, can become great.

~Mark Twain~

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269870 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 15:46

Froggy

"Toon" <toon [at] toon.com> wrote in message
news:9i8072tr9u5rrv6pv3nv1hjgittjr15s7l [at] 4ax.com...
> On Sat, 20 May 2006 22:56:01 -0400, "Matt Clara" <hey.wood.y [at] buzz.off>
> wrote:
>
>>Agreeing, and along the same lines: Patricia McKillip's Star Bearer
>>Triliogy, Susan Cooper's Dark is Rising series, and Madeline L'Engle's A
>>Wrinkle In Time (series, excluding A Wind in the Door, which wasn't that
>>good). More recently, but highly recommended, Clive Barker's Abarat
>>series
>>(as good or better than Harry Potter) and Garth Nix's Keys to the Kingdom
>>series. Also, anything else by Garth Nix. And here's a few more
>>contemporary favorites, Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere, Stardust, and his
>>collection of short stories, Smoke and Illusions--Gaiman is a master of
>>his
>>craft.
>
> Another wizard series is Diane Dunne's Young Wizard Series (some 8
> books now), about Iwo kids who each find a magic instruction manual,
> and become wizards. They spend their time learning magic, and
> fighting the Lone Power, whom humans would call The Devil.
>
> And wizards are everywhere, humans, aliens, whales. The oceans
> themselves are instruction books for sea wizards.

That sounds good too. Man I'm going to be very busy it seems.
--
~Froggy~
-------------------------

Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions.
Small people always do that, but the really
great make you feel that you, too, can become great.

~Mark Twain~

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269871 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 15:46

Froggy

"Deevo" <mckenzie [at] NOSPAMmidwest.com.au> wrote in message
news:446fd8aa$1 [at] quokka.wn.com.au...
> "Froggy" <shelbel007_2000 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:2ONbg.4999$y4.1931 [at] newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>> "*MYSTIC*" <mystic [at] thecave.net> wrote in message
>> news:446fa75e$0$3682$822641b3 [at] news.adtechcomputers.com...
> <snip>
>>> My favorites are McCaffrey's "Dragonriders of Pern" and Zelazny's Amber
>>> series.
>>>
>>
>> How many books in each? It looks like I'll have a LONG summer reading
>> list ;)
>
> If you're going to read McCaffrey's Pern books then better put a few
> months aside, there are a heap of them. :)
> --
Thanks Deevo!
--
~Froggy~
-------------------------

Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions.
Small people always do that, but the really
great make you feel that you, too, can become great.

~Mark Twain~

> Deevo
> Geraldton Western Australia
> http://members.westnet.com.au/mckenzie/index.htm
>

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269872 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 15:47

Froggy

"Toon" <toon [at] toon.com> wrote in message
news:cq7072t2l02898bhfhsctm3jcht1pvrm6r [at] 4ax.com...
> On Sat, 20 May 2006 23:40:46 GMT, "Froggy" <shelbel007_2000 [at] yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"*MYSTIC*" <mystic [at] thecave.net> wrote in message
>>news:446fa75e$0$3682$822641b3 [at] news.adtechcomputers.com...
>>> Froggy wrote:
>>>> Ok, I think I may be the only person who has never read any of these
>>>> books. The movie was on pay per view and I thought, eh what the hell.
>>>> Well, Damn that was an awesome movie! I now want to read the books! I
>>>> tell you it was just like what happened with me and the HP series. I
>>>> had
>>>> seen the first two movies then read all the books! Ok, all that being
>>>> said, are there other series out there that I'm missing out on? When I
>>>> was little my mom wouldn't let me read the Chronicles of Narnia.
>>>> <Shrug>
>>>> I still don't know why /thinks to meself, I gotta ask her. Ok, back to
>>>> your regularly scheduled programs!
>>>>
>>> My favorites are McCaffrey's "Dragonriders of Pern" and Zelazny's Amber
>>> series.
>>>
>>
>>How many books in each? It looks like I'll have a LONG summer reading
>>list
>>;)
>
> Read David Brin's 2 Uplift Series (2 and 3 books respectively).
> Sundiver can be skipped as it's set way before the Uplift series.
>
> Thye're about a universe where aliens must help other aliens gain
> intelligence, as its impossible to do so on your own. Only the
> Progentiors could do this solo. But humans show up, insist they did
> it themselves (kind alike someone insisting their the same as Jesus
> Christ), and then further much up the 5 Galaxies when they apparently
> find the hibernating progenitors. As the known universe has fallen
> into chaos, every major alien clan wants the progenitors to so they
> can reshape galactic society in their favor. The Earthship wants to
> survive long enough to return to Earth so they can share their
> findings.
>
> But you'll have to enjoy beloved apes and dolphins who can fly their
> own spaceships and talk and act all human like.
>
> The first two series (Startide Rising & The Uplift War) involve a
> hiding out on a water planet, and the need to escape when found, and
> the second involves an alein race invading a human colony planet, and
> trying to steal ownership of the Chimps from humans. But a very rare
> event, never before occurring in recorded history occurs at the end.
> (also in one volume called Earthclan)
>
> The next 3 books (Brightness Reef, Infinity's Shore, & Heaven's Reach)
> invovle a planet called Jijo, where 6 alien races have hidden
> themselves illegally, and are awaiting the day they are found out. But
> trouble ensues when their discoveries are criminals, and invaders come
> thereafter.
>
> These 3 have several plotlines, and one involves 4 alien children, and
> the storylines, by their perspective. In the end, it's hinted that
> the 6 illegal races might have been manipulated all along. and might
> be part of something even bigger. And Galactic Socierty undergoes a
> major change that reshapes everything.
>

That sounds good.
--
~Froggy~
-------------------------

Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions.
Small people always do that, but the really
great make you feel that you, too, can become great.

~Mark Twain~

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269873 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 15:48

Froggy

"David P. Evers" <dpevers [at] wideopenwest.com> wrote in message
news:8OGdnQMyKOBLVfLZnZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d [at] wideopenwest.com...
> Froggy wrote:
>> Ok, all that being said, are there other series out there that I'm
>> missing out on?
>
> J.R.R. Tolkein: The Lord of the Rings, the Hobbit, and the Silmarillion.
> If you really need more to read, the History of Middle Earth, all 12
> volumes.
>
> Isaac Asimov: The Foundation Series (the six volume trilogy), and the
> Robot series with precedes it in time.
>
> Frank Herbert: The Dune Series. Anything outside the original 8 volumes
> doesn't do much for me.
>
> James Michener: Not series, but big meaty books heavy on history.
>
> That should keep you busy for a while.

Uh yeah ;) very busy! Thanks for the recommendations.
--
~Froggy~
-------------------------

Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions.
Small people always do that, but the really
great make you feel that you, too, can become great.

~Mark Twain~

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269874 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 15:54

Froggy

"Weird Beard" <weird_beard [at] worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:Xns97C9F37446621weirdbeardworldnetat [at] 204.127.36.1...
> On Sat, 20 May 2006 23:20:00 GMT, "Froggy" <shelbel007_2000 [at] yahoo.com>
> wrote the following in alt.fan.harry-potter:
>
>> Ok, I think I may be the only person who has never read any of these
>> books. The movie was on pay per view and I thought, eh what the hell.
>> Well, Damn that was an awesome movie! I now want to read the books!
>
> Go to it. My only advice is to read them for the first time at least in
> publication order: Lion, Caspian, Voyage, Chair, Horse, Nephew, Battle.
>
> When you reread them, you can read them in chronological order.
>

That is what I've heard. I went to a C.S. Lewis website last night and the
webmaster said the same.

>> I tell you it was just like what happened with me and the HP series.
>> I had seen the first two movies then read all the books!
>
> That's how I got into Redwall, actually, by watching the PBS versions of
> a few of the books.
>> Ok, all
>> that being said, are there other series out there that I'm missing out
>> on?
>
> Discworld, probably since there's no Hollywood movie version to draw
> attention to it.
>
> When I was little my mom wouldn't let me read the Chronicles of
>> Narnia. <Shrug> I still don't know why /thinks to meself, I gotta ask
>> her. Ok, back to your regularly scheduled programs!
>>
> I remember a big debate years ago on a diferrent group. Some of the
> participants liked them as kids, but when they grew up resented being
> "tricked" into reading Christian based fantasy.
>
>

Hmm my mum said she doesn't remember but I suspect she was getting them
confused with the Hobbit. She said that book wasn't of God or something,
Imagine her surpise when I told her I was reading Harry Potter! lol. I was
actually debating her on it. LOL it's funny really, We follow the opinions
and direction of our parents and then we get older and find they weren't
always right! I love me mum anyway! ok done ranting.
--
~Froggy~
-------------------------

Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions.
Small people always do that, but the really
great make you feel that you, too, can become great.

~Mark Twain~

> --
> "It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that certain je-ne-sais-quoi."
> Peter Schickele

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269875 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 15:54

Froggy

"Toon" <toon [at] toon.com> wrote in message
news:1n70725qfrdgma94on8dhv109jmjgqb21m [at] 4ax.com...
> On Sat, 20 May 2006 23:20:00 GMT, "Froggy" <shelbel007_2000 [at] yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Ok, I think I may be the only person who has never read any of these
>>books.
>>The movie was on pay per view and I thought, eh what the hell. Well, Damn
>>that was an awesome movie! I now want to read the books! I tell you it
>>was
>>just like what happened with me and the HP series. I had seen the first
>>two
>>movies then read all the books! Ok, all that being said, are there other
>>series out there that I'm missing out on? When I was little my mom
>>wouldn't
>>let me read the Chronicles of Narnia. <Shrug> I still don't know why
>>/thinks to meself, I gotta ask her. Ok, back to your regularly scheduled
>>programs!
>
> Might be the talking animals bit.
>
> If you read them, start with the Magician's Nephew. It's
> chronologically first, and shows the Creation of Narinia. Ignore the
> numbers on the books. There published order.

Thanks Toon!
--
~Froggy~
-------------------------

Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions.
Small people always do that, but the really
great make you feel that you, too, can become great.

~Mark Twain~

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269876 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 16:04

Robert Livingston

On Sun, 21 May 2006 11:04:10 +0800, "Deevo"
<mckenzie [at] NOSPAMmidwest.com.au> wrote:

>"Froggy" <shelbel007_2000 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:2ONbg.4999$y4.1931 [at] newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>> "*MYSTIC*" <mystic [at] thecave.net> wrote in message
>> news:446fa75e$0$3682$822641b3 [at] news.adtechcomputers.com...
><snip>
>>> My favorites are McCaffrey's "Dragonriders of Pern" and Zelazny's Amber
>>> series.
>>>
>>
>> How many books in each? It looks like I'll have a LONG summer reading
>> list ;)
>
>If you're going to read McCaffrey's Pern books then better put a few months
>aside, there are a heap of them. :)

After all these years, I STILL want a fire lizard!

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269877 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 16:05

Zolak of Twylo

On 2006-05-21 04:04:44 -0400, Toon <toon [at] toon.com> said:

> On Sat, 20 May 2006 23:20:00 GMT, "Froggy" <shelbel007_2000 [at] yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Ok, I think I may be the only person who has never read any of these
>> books. The movie was on pay per view and I thought, eh what the hell.
>> Well, Damn that was an awesome movie! I now want to read the books! I
>> tell you it was just like what happened with me and the HP series. I
>> had seen the first two movies then read all the books! Ok, all that
>> being said, are there other series out there that I'm missing out on?
>> When I was little my mom wouldn't let me read the Chronicles of Narnia.
>> <Shrug> I still don't know why /thinks to meself, I gotta ask her.
>> Ok, back to your regularly scheduled programs!
>
> Might be the talking animals bit.
>
> If you read them, start with the Magician's Nephew. It's
> chronologically first, and shows the Creation of Narinia. Ignore the
> numbers on the books. There published order.

I agree wholeheartedly.
Why did they reorder the books? "The Magician's Nephew" is so
much more effective when one has already been immersed
into Lewis' world.

--
Enjoy,

Zolak of Twylo

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269878 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 16:07

Zolak of Twylo

On 2006-05-21 05:02:15 -0400, "David Sueme" <dsueme [at] comcast.net> said:

>
> Froggy wrote:
>> Ok, I think I may be the only person who has never read any of these books.
>> The movie was on pay per view and I thought, eh what the hell. Well, Damn
>> that was an awesome movie! I now want to read the books!
>
> So Froggy - do you "get" who Aslan really is?
>
> Don't tell her - let Froggy either know it or I'll hint her to it.

Aslan = Jesus

--
Enjoy,

Zolak of Twylo

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269879 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 16:10

Froggy

"Zolak of Twylo" <dannythomas [at] walnuts.com> wrote in message
news:2006052110075375249-dannythomas [at] walnutscom...
> On 2006-05-21 05:02:15 -0400, "David Sueme" <dsueme [at] comcast.net> said:
>
>>
>> Froggy wrote:
>>> Ok, I think I may be the only person who has never read any of these
>>> books.
>>> The movie was on pay per view and I thought, eh what the hell. Well,
>>> Damn
>>> that was an awesome movie! I now want to read the books!
>>
>> So Froggy - do you "get" who Aslan really is?
>>
>> Don't tell her - let Froggy either know it or I'll hint her to it.
>
> Aslan = Jesus
>

That was my suspicion :)
--
~Froggy~
-------------------------

Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions.
Small people always do that, but the really
great make you feel that you, too, can become great.

~Mark Twain~

> --
> Enjoy,
>
> Zolak of Twylo
>

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269880 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 16:13

Froggy wrote:
> Ok, I think I may be the only person who has never read any of these books.
> The movie was on pay per view and I thought, eh what the hell. Well, Damn
> that was an awesome movie! I now want to read the books! I tell you it was
> just like what happened with me and the HP series. I had seen the first two
> movies then read all the books! Ok, all that being said, are there other
> series out there that I'm missing out on? When I was little my mom wouldn't
> let me read the Chronicles of Narnia. <Shrug> I still don't know why
> /thinks to meself, I gotta ask her. Ok, back to your regularly scheduled
> programs!
>

Gormenghast.

--
DM
---

,_,
(O,O)
( )
-"-"-

dm1498 (at) gmail.com
---
"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
- Lord Voldemort

HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269886 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 17:03

Impmon

On Sat, 20 May 2006 23:40:46 GMT, "Froggy" <shelbel007_2000 [at] yahoo.com>
wrote:

>How many books in each? It looks like I'll have a LONG summer reading list
>;)

Dozens in Dragonrider series.
--
When you hear the toilet flush, and hear the words "uh oh", it's already
too late. - by anonymous Mother in Austin, TX
Spam block in place, no emil reply is expected at all.

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269894 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 18:45

Philip Lewis

"Froggy" <shelbel007_2000 [at] yahoo.com> writes:
>are there other series out there that I'm missing out on?
Short but thouroughly enjoyable series:
Bridge of Birds/Story of the Stone/Eight Skilled Gentleman
by Barry Hughart http://www.barryhughart.org/
Kind of a histo-mythological fantasy series.

Several of my other recommendations have been already mentioned...
so I sha'n't reitterate.

--
May no harm befall you,
flip
Ich habe keine Ahnung was das bedeutet, oder vielleicht doch?
In my email replace SeeEmmYou.EeeDeeYou with CMU.EDU

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269907 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 20:46

John VanSickle

Froggy wrote:

> Ok, all that being said, are there other
> series out there that I'm missing out on?

The John Carter series by Edgar Rice Burroughs is entertaining from the
swashbuckling point of view, and you can find the first five books at
Project Gutenberg for free.

Regards,
John

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269909 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 20:53

Steve Morrison

Froggy wrote:
> "*MYSTIC*" <mystic [at] thecave.net> wrote in message
> news:446fa75e$0$3682$822641b3 [at] news.adtechcomputers.com...

(snip)

> > My favorites are McCaffrey's "Dragonriders of Pern" and Zelazny's Amber
> > series.
> >
>
> How many books in each? It looks like I'll have a LONG summer reading list
> ;)
> --
> ~Froggy~

There were originally five of the Amber books, which were written in
the 1970's. In the 1980's, Zelazny wrote another five about the son
of the original hero -- I don't consider them up to the same standard
as the first series, though. All ten are currently available in a
single volume called /The Great Book of Amber/. Zelazny also wrote
five short stories continuing the series, which are now part of an
anthology called /Manna from Heaven/, but if you read those, don't
expect much of a conclusive ending -- Zelazny died while writing
them. There is a Zelazny newsgroup (alt.books.roger-zelazny), and
the site http://zelazny.corrupt.net/ has material on Zelazny and
more links.

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269910 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 20:56

Rik Shepherd

Zolak of Twylo wrote

> > Toon wrote:
> >
> > If you read them, start with the Magician's Nephew. It's
> > chronologically first, and shows the Creation of Narinia. Ignore the
> > numbers on the books. There published order.
>
> I agree wholeheartedly.
> Why did they reorder the books? "The Magician's Nephew" is so
> much more effective when one has already been immersed
> into Lewis' world.

Um... isn't Toon saying Froggy should start with The Magician's Nephew?
(apologies, Toon, if that's not what you meant).

As I understand it, Lewis got a letter from a fairly dull child who objected
at having to think slightly and thought that the books should be read in
chronological order. Lewis, being polite, agreed with him, but didn't
actually do anything concrete about it. After Lewis died some dull souls in
the publishing industry found the letter and took it as a command from
beyond the grave or something, and renumbered the books as part of a
reprinting. There's something related about Lewis having started a version
of Nephew and abandoning it before writing the whole of Lion as an added
justification. I don't think they altered the text, which, I think, means
there are references in Prince Caspian to it being the second adventure*.

Personally, I think you should read any series in the order that the author
wrote them, whether it's chronological or not, on principle. I'm not sure
what the principle is though. Probably something about seeing the order in
which the author thought up their creation (okay, the order in which they
could persuade someone to publish it). For me, The Magician's Nephew has
too many explanations (or spoilers) for events/things in Lion to it to be
read before Lion.

*And, of course, if they were being completely consistent about
chronological order, you'd get the whole of the Horse and his Boy inserted
into the last chapter of Lion Witchy Wardrobe. Think of all those poor
children who've been so so confused by finishing Lion with the Pevensies
leaving Narnia, only to find they're still there in Horse (he said sarcastic
like)

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269911 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 21:24

Deevo

<doc [at] oz.net> wrote in message
news:3qs0725ptiuvqr8jbd6k2p10oo1ibonrve [at] 4ax.com...
> On Sun, 21 May 2006 11:04:10 +0800, "Deevo"
> <mckenzie [at] NOSPAMmidwest.com.au> wrote:
>
>>"Froggy" <shelbel007_2000 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:2ONbg.4999$y4.1931 [at] newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>
>>> "*MYSTIC*" <mystic [at] thecave.net> wrote in message
>>> news:446fa75e$0$3682$822641b3 [at] news.adtechcomputers.com...
>><snip>
>>>> My favorites are McCaffrey's "Dragonriders of Pern" and Zelazny's Amber
>>>> series.
>>>>
>>>
>>> How many books in each? It looks like I'll have a LONG summer reading
>>> list ;)
>>
>>If you're going to read McCaffrey's Pern books then better put a few
>>months
>>aside, there are a heap of them. :)
>
> After all these years, I STILL want a fire lizard!

Fire lizard nothing, I want a bronze dragon. (or at least a brown) :).
--
Deevo
Geraldton Western Australia
http://members.westnet.com.au/mckenzie/index.htm

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269912 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 21:26

pooter

Froggy [shelbel007_2000 [at] yahoo.com] said
> Ok, I think I may be the only person who has never read any of these books.

You are not.

> The movie was on pay per view and I thought, eh what the hell. Well, Damn
> that was an awesome movie! I now want to read the books! I tell you it was
> just like what happened with me and the HP series. I had seen the first two
> movies then read all the books! Ok, all that being said, are there other
> series out there that I'm missing out on? When I was little my mom wouldn't
> let me read the Chronicles of Narnia. <Shrug> I still don't know why
> /thinks to meself, I gotta ask her. Ok, back to your regularly scheduled
> programs!
>
>

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269917 ]

So, 21 Mai 2006 21:40

nystulc

Zolak of Twylo wrote:
> > So Froggy - do you "get" who Aslan really is?
> >
> > Don't tell her - let Froggy either know it or I'll hint her to it.
>
> Aslan = Jesus

True, but it might be less misleading to say that Aslan and Jesus are
intended as different incaranations of the same spiritual Being. Aslan
is not a man represented by a lion. He really is a lion.

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269928 ]

Mo, 22 Mai 2006 00:08

Zolak of Twylo

On 2006-05-21 15:40:50 -0400, nystulc [at] cs.com said:

> Zolak of Twylo wrote:
>>> So Froggy - do you "get" who Aslan really is?
>>>
>>> Don't tell her - let Froggy either know it or I'll hint her to it.
>>
>> Aslan = Jesus
>
> True, but it might be less misleading to say that Aslan and Jesus are
> intended as different incaranations of the same spiritual Being. Aslan
> is not a man represented by a lion. He really is a lion.

But he's not a tame lion.

--
Enjoy,

Zolak of Twylo

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269935 ]

Mo, 22 Mai 2006 03:02

Bernie Dwyer

Deevo wrote:
>
<snip>
>
> If you're going to read McCaffrey's Pern books then better put a few months
> aside, there are a heap of them. :)
> --
Well, yeah - but don't expect the basic plot to change - enjoyable
books, but a bit repetitive after a while. (IMNSHO) ;-)
--

Bernie Dwyer
There are no 'z' in my email address

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269941 ]

Mo, 22 Mai 2006 07:02

Toon

On Sun, 21 May 2006 19:56:07 +0100, "Rik Shepherd"
<RikShepherd [at] orangemonkeySCAMPER.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>Zolak of Twylo wrote
>
>> > Toon wrote:
>> >
>> > If you read them, start with the Magician's Nephew. It's
>> > chronologically first, and shows the Creation of Narinia. Ignore the
>> > numbers on the books. There published order.
>>
>> I agree wholeheartedly.
>> Why did they reorder the books? "The Magician's Nephew" is so
>> much more effective when one has already been immersed
>> into Lewis' world.
>
>Um... isn't Toon saying Froggy should start with The Magician's Nephew?
>(apologies, Toon, if that's not what you meant).

Yup. Magician First.

>*And, of course, if they were being completely consistent about
>chronological order, you'd get the whole of the Horse and his Boy inserted
>into the last chapter of Lion Witchy Wardrobe. Think of all those poor
>children who've been so so confused by finishing Lion with the Pevensies
>leaving Narnia, only to find they're still there in Horse (he said sarcastic
>like)
>

I tried inserting it that way once for laughs. It looked ridiculous.
Course, if we had e-Books, problem solved. course, I saw no reason
for Horse to take place during the Pensieve reign.

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269942 ]

Mo, 22 Mai 2006 07:05

Toon

On Sun, 21 May 2006 13:47:41 GMT, "Froggy" <shelbel007_2000 [at] yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
>"Toon" <toon [at] toon.com> wrote in message
>news:cq7072t2l02898bhfhsctm3jcht1pvrm6r [at] 4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 20 May 2006 23:40:46 GMT, "Froggy" <shelbel007_2000 [at] yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"*MYSTIC*" <mystic [at] thecave.net> wrote in message
>>>news:446fa75e$0$3682$822641b3 [at] news.adtechcomputers.com...
>>>> Froggy wrote:
>>>>> Ok, I think I may be the only person who has never read any of these
>>>>> books. The movie was on pay per view and I thought, eh what the hell.
>>>>> Well, Damn that was an awesome movie! I now want to read the books! I
>>>>> tell you it was just like what happened with me and the HP series. I
>>>>> had
>>>>> seen the first two movies then read all the books! Ok, all that being
>>>>> said, are there other series out there that I'm missing out on? When I
>>>>> was little my mom wouldn't let me read the Chronicles of Narnia.
>>>>> <Shrug>
>>>>> I still don't know why /thinks to meself, I gotta ask her. Ok, back to
>>>>> your regularly scheduled programs!
>>>>>
>>>> My favorites are McCaffrey's "Dragonriders of Pern" and Zelazny's Amber
>>>> series.
>>>>
>>>
>>>How many books in each? It looks like I'll have a LONG summer reading
>>>list
>>>;)
>>
>> Read David Brin's 2 Uplift Series (2 and 3 books respectively).
>> Sundiver can be skipped as it's set way before the Uplift series.
>>
>> Thye're about a universe where aliens must help other aliens gain
>> intelligence, as its impossible to do so on your own. Only the
>> Progentiors could do this solo. But humans show up, insist they did
>> it themselves (kind alike someone insisting their the same as Jesus
>> Christ), and then further much up the 5 Galaxies when they apparently
>> find the hibernating progenitors. As the known universe has fallen
>> into chaos, every major alien clan wants the progenitors to so they
>> can reshape galactic society in their favor. The Earthship wants to
>> survive long enough to return to Earth so they can share their
>> findings.
>>
>> But you'll have to enjoy beloved apes and dolphins who can fly their
>> own spaceships and talk and act all human like.
>>
>> The first two series (Startide Rising & The Uplift War) involve a
>> hiding out on a water planet, and the need to escape when found, and
>> the second involves an alein race invading a human colony planet, and
>> trying to steal ownership of the Chimps from humans. But a very rare
>> event, never before occurring in recorded history occurs at the end.
>> (also in one volume called Earthclan)
>>
>> The next 3 books (Brightness Reef, Infinity's Shore, & Heaven's Reach)
>> invovle a planet called Jijo, where 6 alien races have hidden
>> themselves illegally, and are awaiting the day they are found out. But
>> trouble ensues when their discoveries are criminals, and invaders come
>> thereafter.
>>
>> These 3 have several plotlines, and one involves 4 alien children, and
>> the storylines, by their perspective. In the end, it's hinted that
>> the 6 illegal races might have been manipulated all along. and might
>> be part of something even bigger. And Galactic Socierty undergoes a
>> major change that reshapes everything.
>>
>
>That sounds good.

There's rumors of a third series, but that's still quite a ways off.
The Trilogy was supposed to be one book, but sort of grew way out of
hand.

But Sundiver can be skipped, as it just set sup basic history, and
shows the adventures of a character briefly mentioned as training two
main characters in Earthclan. Plus, the book world changes between the
two series, some 50 plus years between them.

There's also 2 short stories on Brin's web site, but they're best left
until you finish everything else.

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269943 ]

Mo, 22 Mai 2006 07:07

Toon

On 21 May 2006 12:40:50 -0700, nystulc [at] cs.com wrote:

>Zolak of Twylo wrote:
>> > So Froggy - do you "get" who Aslan really is?
>> >
>> > Don't tell her - let Froggy either know it or I'll hint her to it.
>>
>> Aslan = Jesus
>
>True, but it might be less misleading to say that Aslan and Jesus are
>intended as different incaranations of the same spiritual Being. Aslan
>is not a man represented by a lion. He really is a lion.

Nah, he's a lion to Narnia, human to earth, something else to another
place. If Jesus were to return to Earth, he'd be human, not a lion.
or people'd be like, um, did you do something different with your
hair? Species, maybe?

Course, Aslan refers to god as The magician, so. . . .

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269947 ]

Mo, 22 Mai 2006 10:14

nystulc

Toon wrote:
> On 21 May 2006 12:40:50 -0700, nystulc [at] cs.com wrote:
> >Zolak of Twylo wrote:
> >> Aslan = Jesus
> >
> >True, but it might be less misleading to say that Aslan and Jesus are
> >intended as different incaranations of the same spiritual Being. Aslan
> >is not a man represented by a lion. He really is a lion.
>
> Nah, he's a lion to Narnia, human to earth, something else to another
> place. If Jesus were to return to Earth, he'd be human, not a lion.

Only if "Jesus" is taken to refer, by definition, to the human
incarnation, in which case your statement is merely a tautology.
Similarly, if "Aslan" were to go to Earth, he'd be a lion, not a human.
This BTW is exactly what happened at the end of Silver Chair. Aslan
appeared in England ... as a Lion.

If the "Second Person of the Holy Trinity" a.k.a. "God the Son" were to
"go to Earth" he could go as the human Jesus, or as the Lion Aslan, or
in any other form he pleased. You cannot tell him what to do. After
all, he's not a tame Lion.

> or people'd be like, um, did you do something different with your
> hair? Species, maybe?

Actually, what people said in Silver Chair was "AARGHH... A LION!"

> Course, Aslan refers to god as The magician, so. . . .

I don't believe so. He refers to God-the-Father as the
Emperor-Beyond-The-Sea.

Re: Way OT. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. [message #269949 ]

Mo, 22 Mai 2006 10:44

dsueme

Zolak of Twylo wrote:
> On 2006-05-21 05:02:15 -0400, "David Sueme" <dsueme [at] comcast.net> said:

> > Don't tell her - let Froggy either know it or I'll hint her to it.
>
> Aslan = Jesus

Hey, dipsh*t! Is there some part of "Don't tell her..." that is too
complex for you? It's a lot more interesting and compelling if you
think of it yourself. I might have made that happen with a few
well-chosen comments or questions.

> Enjoy,

Isn't there a busy intersection nearby that you can play in?

Dave
:-)

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