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Science Fiction » alt.fan.starwars » This really annoys me....
| This really annoys me.... [message #268364] |
Do, 01 Juni 2006 19:49 |
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Just having read a message about who went with Windu to arrest the
Chancellor - I was planning on posting this anyway, but the responses
to that first message are similar.
Why on earth to the Jedi with Windu just stand there and not react when
Palpatine attacks? Just like - to me - it seems that Darth Maul seems
not to react when Obi-Wan uses the force to pull himself up and uses
the force to pull Qui-Gon's saber to him and then slays Maul.
Certainly they could have done a better jobs making the fights look
more realistic in these scenes.
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #268365 ] |
Do, 01 Juni 2006 20:06 |
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biowarble [at] hotmail.com wrote:
> Just having read a message about who went with Windu to arrest the
> Chancellor - I was planning on posting this anyway, but the responses
> to that first message are similar.
>
> Why on earth to the Jedi with Windu just stand there and not react when
> Palpatine attacks? Just like - to me - it seems that Darth Maul seems
> not to react when Obi-Wan uses the force to pull himself up and uses
> the force to pull Qui-Gon's saber to him and then slays Maul.
> Certainly they could have done a better jobs making the fights look
> more realistic in these scenes.
>
Because they wanted a come-from-behind victory, is my bet.
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #268366 ] |
Do, 01 Juni 2006 19:51 |
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did you see how fast he attacked? he killed those jedi in like 5 secs.
they didnt have any time to react.
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #268369 ] |
Do, 01 Juni 2006 21:25 |
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CaptAdama wrote:
> did you see how fast he attacked? he killed those jedi in like 5 secs.
> they didnt have any time to react.
>
"You race pods? You must have Jedi reflexes." (Paraphrase)
So what was that about not having time to react again?
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #268372 ] |
Do, 01 Juni 2006 22:57 |
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In article <447f3ad7$1_1 [at] newspeer2.tds.net>, Josh Rambo
<marsdragon88 [at] gmail.com> wrote:
> CaptAdama wrote:
> > did you see how fast he attacked? he killed those jedi in like 5 secs.
> > they didnt have any time to react.
>
> "You race pods? You must have Jedi reflexes." (Paraphrase)
> So what was that about not having time to react again?
Yet again, they were taken by surprise because they vastly
under-estimated Palpatine. He looks like an old man and acts like a
pleasant person. They had no experience of dealing with Sith Lords.
When you in shock or surprising situations like that you tend to pause
while your brain goes "what the {beep}" and THEN reacts. By the time
the Jedi reacted it was too late.
You often hear people saying that time seems to slow down in such
situations and you see every tiny detail, but can't seem to react. It's
the same thing, the brain is working overtime trying to comprehend
whats happeneing and then process a response.
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #268373 ] |
Do, 01 Juni 2006 23:29 |
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Anybody wrote:
> In article <447f3ad7$1_1 [at] newspeer2.tds.net>, Josh Rambo
> <marsdragon88 [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > CaptAdama wrote:
> > > did you see how fast he attacked? he killed those jedi in like 5 secs.
> > > they didnt have any time to react.
> >
> > "You race pods? You must have Jedi reflexes." (Paraphrase)
> > So what was that about not having time to react again?
>
> Yet again, they were taken by surprise because they vastly
> under-estimated Palpatine. He looks like an old man and acts like a
> pleasant person. They had no experience of dealing with Sith Lords.
>
> When you in shock or surprising situations like that you tend to pause
> while your brain goes "what the {beep}" and THEN reacts. By the time
> the Jedi reacted it was too late.
>
> You often hear people saying that time seems to slow down in such
> situations and you see every tiny detail, but can't seem to react. It's
> the same thing, the brain is working overtime trying to comprehend
> whats happeneing and then process a response.
Good insight - maybe I was wrong about the scene with the Jedi and
Palpatine.
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #268375 ] |
Fr, 02 Juni 2006 01:04 |
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Anybody wrote:
> In article <447f3ad7$1_1 [at] newspeer2.tds.net>, Josh Rambo
> <marsdragon88 [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>CaptAdama wrote:
>>
>>>did you see how fast he attacked? he killed those jedi in like 5 secs.
>>>they didnt have any time to react.
>>
>>"You race pods? You must have Jedi reflexes." (Paraphrase)
>>So what was that about not having time to react again?
>
>
> Yet again, they were taken by surprise because they vastly
> under-estimated Palpatine. He looks like an old man and acts like a
> pleasant person. They had no experience of dealing with Sith Lords.
Why send *four* Jedi if Palpatine looks to be 'just an old man'?
> When you in shock or surprising situations like that you tend to pause
> while your brain goes "what the {beep}" and THEN reacts. By the time
> the Jedi reacted it was too late.
Five seconds is actually a *really* long time to think about something
and react to it.
> You often hear people saying that time seems to slow down in such
> situations and you see every tiny detail, but can't seem to react. It's
> the same thing, the brain is working overtime trying to comprehend
> whats happeneing and then process a response.
Crap. The Jedi are trained to react fast. YOU would have reacted faster,
even if it was just to run away. The comment about Jedi reflexes is
still valid, a reflex isn't something you NEED to think about, it just
happens.
If I throw a ball at your head, you flinch. You don't think about it for
5 seconds. Windu's buddies just stood there and got mown down.
The scene was weak and could have been choreographed more effectively...
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #268377 ] |
Fr, 02 Juni 2006 02:27 |
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Anybody wrote:
> In article <447f3ad7$1_1 [at] newspeer2.tds.net>, Josh Rambo
> <marsdragon88 [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> CaptAdama wrote:
>>> did you see how fast he attacked? he killed those jedi in like 5 secs.
>>> they didnt have any time to react.
>> "You race pods? You must have Jedi reflexes." (Paraphrase)
>> So what was that about not having time to react again?
>
> Yet again, they were taken by surprise because they vastly
> under-estimated Palpatine. He looks like an old man and acts like a
> pleasant person. They had no experience of dealing with Sith Lords.
>
> When you in shock or surprising situations like that you tend to pause
> while your brain goes "what the {beep}" and THEN reacts. By the time
> the Jedi reacted it was too late.
>
> You often hear people saying that time seems to slow down in such
> situations and you see every tiny detail, but can't seem to react. It's
> the same thing, the brain is working overtime trying to comprehend
> whats happeneing and then process a response.
He looks like an old man. So what? They know he's a Sith Lord. For
crying out loud, you don't just walk up to a Sith Lord and slap the
cuffs on. If they thought he was just another old man, would they have
sent 4 Jedi, one of whom was one of the more powerful Jedi (Windu) to
arrest him? Of course not. That would be like calling in the marines
because the guy nextdoor is playing his stereo too loud.
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #268378 ] |
Fr, 02 Juni 2006 02:27 |
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>
> He looks like an old man. So what? They know he's a Sith Lord.
Actually, all they knew was that the village idiot Skywalker said he's a
Sith Lord.
They can't just brush something that serious that off - so off they go to
arrest him (key word, "arrest", not "take out with extreme prejudice.")
while the allegation is investigated. (Though as the book points out, it's
never been established that there exists any Republic law against being a
Sith Lord.)
But that doesn't mean they really accepted the idea internally. It takes a
while to adjust to the idea that a doddering old Chancellor who you've known
for decades is actually a Sith lightsaber wizmo, especially when the only
"proof" is an allegation from a bratty Chosen One who needs to wear a mask
to gain any shred of charisma. Add a lot of millenium old Jedi arrogance to
the mix and it's not surprising they were completely unprepared. I suspect
the only reason Windu lasted as long as he did was because the Chancellor
needed him alive to force Skywalker to make a choice.
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #268379 ] |
Fr, 02 Juni 2006 02:52 |
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In article
<ABLfg.203712$eR6.134592 [at] bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"SpammersDie" <xx [at] xx.xx> wrote:
> >
> > He looks like an old man. So what? They know he's a Sith Lord.
>
> Actually, all they knew was that the village idiot Skywalker said he's a
> Sith Lord.
>
> They can't just brush something that serious that off - so off they go to
> arrest him (key word, "arrest", not "take out with extreme prejudice.")
> while the allegation is investigated. (Though as the book points out, it's
> never been established that there exists any Republic law against being a
> Sith Lord.)
>
> But that doesn't mean they really accepted the idea internally. It takes a
> while to adjust to the idea that a doddering old Chancellor who you've known
> for decades is actually a Sith lightsaber wizmo, especially when the only
> "proof" is an allegation from a bratty Chosen One who needs to wear a mask
> to gain any shred of charisma. Add a lot of millenium old Jedi arrogance to
> the mix and it's not surprising they were completely unprepared. I suspect
> the only reason Windu lasted as long as he did was because the Chancellor
> needed him alive to force Skywalker to make a choice.
Plus no Jedi had seen a Sith Lord for 1000 years until Darth Maul
showed up on Tatooine. The only Jedi to face a Sith Lord after that
were Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin. None of those on the arresting
team had ever faced a Sith Lord. They had no real idea what to expect.
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #268380 ] |
Fr, 02 Juni 2006 02:57 |
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In article <447f8140$1_2 [at] newspeer2.tds.net>, Josh Rambo
<marsdragon88 [at] gmail.com> wrote:
> Anybody wrote:
> > In article <447f3ad7$1_1 [at] newspeer2.tds.net>, Josh Rambo
> > <marsdragon88 [at] gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> CaptAdama wrote:
> >>> did you see how fast he attacked? he killed those jedi in like 5 secs.
> >>> they didnt have any time to react.
> >> "You race pods? You must have Jedi reflexes." (Paraphrase)
> >> So what was that about not having time to react again?
> >
> > Yet again, they were taken by surprise because they vastly
> > under-estimated Palpatine. He looks like an old man and acts like a
> > pleasant person. They had no experience of dealing with Sith Lords.
> >
> > When you in shock or surprising situations like that you tend to pause
> > while your brain goes "what the {beep}" and THEN reacts. By the time
> > the Jedi reacted it was too late.
> >
> > You often hear people saying that time seems to slow down in such
> > situations and you see every tiny detail, but can't seem to react. It's
> > the same thing, the brain is working overtime trying to comprehend
> > whats happeneing and then process a response.
>
> He looks like an old man. So what? They know he's a Sith Lord. For
> crying out loud, you don't just walk up to a Sith Lord and slap the
> cuffs on. If they thought he was just another old man, would they have
> sent 4 Jedi, one of whom was one of the more powerful Jedi (Windu) to
> arrest him? Of course not. That would be like calling in the marines
> because the guy nextdoor is playing his stereo too loud.
Surprise and having people under-estimate you is a VERY big advantage.
Yoda use the same technique by walking with a cane and yet throwing it
away on the rare times he has to fight.
Yes he looks like and old man. Yes they were told he was a Sith Lord
.... but they did not KNOW he was a Sith Lord and they had never seen a
Sith Lord. Plus as someone else said, they were there to arrest him,
not kill him. It was only after Mace Windu realised that arresting him
wasn't going to be possible that he (and later Yoda) decided that
killing him was a necessity.
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #268381 ] |
Fr, 02 Juni 2006 03:03 |
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In article <0oKfg.1757$ap3.187 [at] news-server.bigpond.net.au>, H <H [at] r.c>
wrote:
> Anybody wrote:
>
> > In article <447f3ad7$1_1 [at] newspeer2.tds.net>, Josh Rambo
> > <marsdragon88 [at] gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>CaptAdama wrote:
> >>
> >>>did you see how fast he attacked? he killed those jedi in like 5 secs.
> >>>they didnt have any time to react.
> >>
> >>"You race pods? You must have Jedi reflexes." (Paraphrase)
> >>So what was that about not having time to react again?
> >
> >
> > Yet again, they were taken by surprise because they vastly
> > under-estimated Palpatine. He looks like an old man and acts like a
> > pleasant person. They had no experience of dealing with Sith Lords.
>
> Why send *four* Jedi if Palpatine looks to be 'just an old man'?
He wasn't JUST an old man. He was a suspected Sith Lord. They knew he
was powerful, but didn't realise HOW powerful.
> > When you in shock or surprising situations like that you tend to pause
> > while your brain goes "what the {beep}" and THEN reacts. By the time
> > the Jedi reacted it was too late.
>
> Five seconds is actually a *really* long time to think about something
> and react to it.
How many movies have you watched where there's five seconds left on the
bomb's timer and yet minutes later they're still trying to disarm it??
Five seconds of on-screen time is NOT necessarily real time ... it IS a
movie.
Besides which, as I said above, people do freeze at moments of
unexpected shock or surprise, and it can be five seconds or even longer
before their brain kick-starts them into reacting.
> > You often hear people saying that time seems to slow down in such
> > situations and you see every tiny detail, but can't seem to react. It's
> > the same thing, the brain is working overtime trying to comprehend
> > whats happeneing and then process a response.
>
> Crap. The Jedi are trained to react fast. YOU would have reacted faster,
> even if it was just to run away. The comment about Jedi reflexes is
> still valid, a reflex isn't something you NEED to think about, it just
> happens.
>
> If I throw a ball at your head, you flinch. You don't think about it for
> 5 seconds. Windu's buddies just stood there and got mown down.
>
> The scene was weak and could have been choreographed more effectively...
Throwing a ball isn't even remotely the same thing. Trying standing on
the road side while a ten ton truck is coming staright at your three
year old. Some people will react instinctively and not remember
anything, others will freeze and remember every tiny minute detail ...
and that includes people trained at emergency rescue, etc.
This scene is NOT some magical thing that can't happen. It can happen
and it does happen.
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #268382 ] |
Fr, 02 Juni 2006 03:25 |
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Anybody wrote:
>>>>>did you see how fast he attacked? he killed those jedi in like 5 secs.
>>>>>they didnt have any time to react.
>>>>
>>>>"You race pods? You must have Jedi reflexes." (Paraphrase)
>>>>So what was that about not having time to react again?
>>>
>>>
>>>Yet again, they were taken by surprise because they vastly
>>>under-estimated Palpatine. He looks like an old man and acts like a
>>>pleasant person. They had no experience of dealing with Sith Lords.
>>
>>Why send *four* Jedi if Palpatine looks to be 'just an old man'?
>
>
> He wasn't JUST an old man. He was a suspected Sith Lord. They knew he
> was powerful, but didn't realise HOW powerful.
So you naturally assume the worst, thus they should have been ready when
he jumped at them. Besides they WERE ready for a fight, since all four
had their lightsabers out when Palpatine attacked them.
>>>When you in shock or surprising situations like that you tend to pause
>>>while your brain goes "what the {beep}" and THEN reacts. By the time
>>>the Jedi reacted it was too late.
>>
>>Five seconds is actually a *really* long time to think about something
>>and react to it.
>
>
> How many movies have you watched where there's five seconds left on the
> bomb's timer and yet minutes later they're still trying to disarm it??
None.
> Besides which, as I said above, people do freeze at moments of
> unexpected shock or surprise, and it can be five seconds or even longer
> before their brain kick-starts them into reacting.
Yes, unless you're trained to handle surprises. Like soldiers, police,
Jedi etc.
>>Crap. The Jedi are trained to react fast. YOU would have reacted faster,
>>even if it was just to run away. The comment about Jedi reflexes is
>>still valid, a reflex isn't something you NEED to think about, it just
>>happens.
>>
>>If I throw a ball at your head, you flinch. You don't think about it for
>>5 seconds. Windu's buddies just stood there and got mown down.
>>
>>The scene was weak and could have been choreographed more effectively...
>
> Throwing a ball isn't even remotely the same thing. Trying standing on
> the road side while a ten ton truck is coming staright at your three
> year old. Some people will react instinctively and not remember
I have been there and it was f^*king scary. (Yes she is fine BTW) And a
truck nearly running over your child isn't remotely like the situation
in the movie either, so lets both drop the analogies.
> This scene is NOT some magical thing that can't happen. It can happen
> and it does happen.
It was badly handled, get over it. I'm not saying it couldn't happen
like that, just that it *shouldn't* have happened like that. It was
badly choreographed/edited, didn't fit with what we know about Jedi and
looked plain clumsy.
H.
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #268383 ] |
Fr, 02 Juni 2006 03:25 |
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Anybody wrote:
> In article <447f8140$1_2 [at] newspeer2.tds.net>, Josh Rambo
> <marsdragon88 [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Anybody wrote:
>>> In article <447f3ad7$1_1 [at] newspeer2.tds.net>, Josh Rambo
>>> <marsdragon88 [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> CaptAdama wrote:
>>>>> did you see how fast he attacked? he killed those jedi in like 5 secs.
>>>>> they didnt have any time to react.
>>>> "You race pods? You must have Jedi reflexes." (Paraphrase)
>>>> So what was that about not having time to react again?
>>> Yet again, they were taken by surprise because they vastly
>>> under-estimated Palpatine. He looks like an old man and acts like a
>>> pleasant person. They had no experience of dealing with Sith Lords.
>>>
>>> When you in shock or surprising situations like that you tend to pause
>>> while your brain goes "what the {beep}" and THEN reacts. By the time
>>> the Jedi reacted it was too late.
>>>
>>> You often hear people saying that time seems to slow down in such
>>> situations and you see every tiny detail, but can't seem to react. It's
>>> the same thing, the brain is working overtime trying to comprehend
>>> whats happeneing and then process a response.
>> He looks like an old man. So what? They know he's a Sith Lord. For
>> crying out loud, you don't just walk up to a Sith Lord and slap the
>> cuffs on. If they thought he was just another old man, would they have
>> sent 4 Jedi, one of whom was one of the more powerful Jedi (Windu) to
>> arrest him? Of course not. That would be like calling in the marines
>> because the guy nextdoor is playing his stereo too loud.
>
> Surprise and having people under-estimate you is a VERY big advantage.
> Yoda use the same technique by walking with a cane and yet throwing it
> away on the rare times he has to fight.
>
> Yes he looks like and old man. Yes they were told he was a Sith Lord
> ... but they did not KNOW he was a Sith Lord and they had never seen a
> Sith Lord. Plus as someone else said, they were there to arrest him,
> not kill him. It was only after Mace Windu realised that arresting him
> wasn't going to be possible that he (and later Yoda) decided that
> killing him was a necessity.
Ok. The rumor of the town is that your neighbor is a serial murderer.
You see him in a dark alley one night. Do you enter the alley?
I'm getting a very strong "Hell no" on that. I may not know for sure
he's a serial murderer, but I'm sure not entering that alley. It's just
common sense.
As for not being there to kill him... if they thought he would come
peacefully, they wouldn't have brought so many men.
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #268384 ] |
Fr, 02 Juni 2006 03:25 |
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Anybody wrote:
> In article
> <ABLfg.203712$eR6.134592 [at] bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> "SpammersDie" <xx [at] xx.xx> wrote:
>
>>> He looks like an old man. So what? They know he's a Sith Lord.
>> Actually, all they knew was that the village idiot Skywalker said he's a
>> Sith Lord.
>>
>> They can't just brush something that serious that off - so off they go to
>> arrest him (key word, "arrest", not "take out with extreme prejudice.")
>> while the allegation is investigated. (Though as the book points out, it's
>> never been established that there exists any Republic law against being a
>> Sith Lord.)
>>
>> But that doesn't mean they really accepted the idea internally. It takes a
>> while to adjust to the idea that a doddering old Chancellor who you've known
>> for decades is actually a Sith lightsaber wizmo, especially when the only
>> "proof" is an allegation from a bratty Chosen One who needs to wear a mask
>> to gain any shred of charisma. Add a lot of millenium old Jedi arrogance to
>> the mix and it's not surprising they were completely unprepared. I suspect
>> the only reason Windu lasted as long as he did was because the Chancellor
>> needed him alive to force Skywalker to make a choice.
>
> Plus no Jedi had seen a Sith Lord for 1000 years until Darth Maul
> showed up on Tatooine. The only Jedi to face a Sith Lord after that
> were Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin. None of those on the arresting
> team had ever faced a Sith Lord. They had no real idea what to expect.
CaptAdama's post has not yet shown up on my server, so I'll reply to it
here.
As I've said before, you have to assume the worst if you want to live.
Skywalker claimed he was a Sith Lord. Do you seriously want to take the
chance of getting your ass kicked? No, you take adequate force. You're
careful.
Anybody: That's fine. It's not like the Jedi archives were short on
information on the Sith. Didn't they kick the Jedi's asses a few
thousand years before? The guys were powerful. The Jedi knew that.
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #276150 ] |
Fr, 02 Juni 2006 08:21 |
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In article <447f98da$1_1 [at] newspeer2.tds.net>, Josh Rambo
<marsdragon88 [at] gmail.com> wrote:
> Anybody wrote:
> > In article <447f8140$1_2 [at] newspeer2.tds.net>, Josh Rambo
> > <marsdragon88 [at] gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Anybody wrote:
> >>> In article <447f3ad7$1_1 [at] newspeer2.tds.net>, Josh Rambo
> >>> <marsdragon88 [at] gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> CaptAdama wrote:
> >>>>> did you see how fast he attacked? he killed those jedi in like 5 secs.
> >>>>> they didnt have any time to react.
> >>>> "You race pods? You must have Jedi reflexes." (Paraphrase)
> >>>> So what was that about not having time to react again?
> >>> Yet again, they were taken by surprise because they vastly
> >>> under-estimated Palpatine. He looks like an old man and acts like a
> >>> pleasant person. They had no experience of dealing with Sith Lords.
> >>>
> >>> When you in shock or surprising situations like that you tend to pause
> >>> while your brain goes "what the {beep}" and THEN reacts. By the time
> >>> the Jedi reacted it was too late.
> >>>
> >>> You often hear people saying that time seems to slow down in such
> >>> situations and you see every tiny detail, but can't seem to react. It's
> >>> the same thing, the brain is working overtime trying to comprehend
> >>> whats happeneing and then process a response.
> >> He looks like an old man. So what? They know he's a Sith Lord. For
> >> crying out loud, you don't just walk up to a Sith Lord and slap the
> >> cuffs on. If they thought he was just another old man, would they have
> >> sent 4 Jedi, one of whom was one of the more powerful Jedi (Windu) to
> >> arrest him? Of course not. That would be like calling in the marines
> >> because the guy nextdoor is playing his stereo too loud.
> >
> > Surprise and having people under-estimate you is a VERY big advantage.
> > Yoda use the same technique by walking with a cane and yet throwing it
> > away on the rare times he has to fight.
> >
> > Yes he looks like and old man. Yes they were told he was a Sith Lord
> > ... but they did not KNOW he was a Sith Lord and they had never seen a
> > Sith Lord. Plus as someone else said, they were there to arrest him,
> > not kill him. It was only after Mace Windu realised that arresting him
> > wasn't going to be possible that he (and later Yoda) decided that
> > killing him was a necessity.
>
> Ok. The rumor of the town is that your neighbor is a serial murderer.
> You see him in a dark alley one night. Do you enter the alley?
>
> I'm getting a very strong "Hell no" on that. I may not know for sure
> he's a serial murderer, but I'm sure not entering that alley. It's just
> common sense.
>
> As for not being there to kill him... if they thought he would come
> peacefully, they wouldn't have brought so many men.
If you take that line of thinking, then if they had thought Palpatine
was so strong then surely they would have taken a lot MORE men to
arrest him.
They were simply surprised by how powerful he was. There's no huge
mystery or mistake.
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #276151 ] |
Fr, 02 Juni 2006 08:25 |
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In article <447f99e1$1_3 [at] newspeer2.tds.net>, Josh Rambo
<marsdragon88 [at] gmail.com> wrote:
> Anybody wrote:
> > In article
> > <ABLfg.203712$eR6.134592 [at] bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> > "SpammersDie" <xx [at] xx.xx> wrote:
> >
> >>> He looks like an old man. So what? They know he's a Sith Lord.
> >> Actually, all they knew was that the village idiot Skywalker said he's a
> >> Sith Lord.
> >>
> >> They can't just brush something that serious that off - so off they go to
> >> arrest him (key word, "arrest", not "take out with extreme prejudice.")
> >> while the allegation is investigated. (Though as the book points out, it's
> >> never been established that there exists any Republic law against being a
> >> Sith Lord.)
> >>
> >> But that doesn't mean they really accepted the idea internally. It takes a
> >> while to adjust to the idea that a doddering old Chancellor who you've
> >> known
> >> for decades is actually a Sith lightsaber wizmo, especially when the only
> >> "proof" is an allegation from a bratty Chosen One who needs to wear a mask
> >> to gain any shred of charisma. Add a lot of millenium old Jedi arrogance
> >> to
> >> the mix and it's not surprising they were completely unprepared. I suspect
> >> the only reason Windu lasted as long as he did was because the Chancellor
> >> needed him alive to force Skywalker to make a choice.
> >
> > Plus no Jedi had seen a Sith Lord for 1000 years until Darth Maul
> > showed up on Tatooine. The only Jedi to face a Sith Lord after that
> > were Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin. None of those on the arresting
> > team had ever faced a Sith Lord. They had no real idea what to expect.
>
> CaptAdama's post has not yet shown up on my server, so I'll reply to it
> here.
>
> As I've said before, you have to assume the worst if you want to live.
> Skywalker claimed he was a Sith Lord. Do you seriously want to take the
> chance of getting your ass kicked? No, you take adequate force. You're
> careful.
>
> Anybody: That's fine. It's not like the Jedi archives were short on
> information on the Sith. Didn't they kick the Jedi's asses a few
> thousand years before? The guys were powerful. The Jedi knew that.
As in the other message, they obviously knew Sith Lords were powerful
and so four of them went, but they didn't realise HOW powerful
otherwise they would have taken more.
Its all very well reading a ton of books saying a flame is "hot", but
you won't know how hot until you're nearly burnt by one. "Hot" comes in
various levels of actual heat and everyone's opinion of what "hot"
means for say a soup is different.
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #276152 ] |
Fr, 02 Juni 2006 08:32 |
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In article <4FMfg.1840$ap3.1067 [at] news-server.bigpond.net.au>, H <H [at] r.c>
wrote:
> Anybody wrote:
>
> >>>>>did you see how fast he attacked? he killed those jedi in like 5 secs.
> >>>>>they didnt have any time to react.
> >>>>
> >>>>"You race pods? You must have Jedi reflexes." (Paraphrase)
> >>>>So what was that about not having time to react again?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Yet again, they were taken by surprise because they vastly
> >>>under-estimated Palpatine. He looks like an old man and acts like a
> >>>pleasant person. They had no experience of dealing with Sith Lords.
> >>
> >>Why send *four* Jedi if Palpatine looks to be 'just an old man'?
> >
> >
> > He wasn't JUST an old man. He was a suspected Sith Lord. They knew he
> > was powerful, but didn't realise HOW powerful.
>
> So you naturally assume the worst, thus they should have been ready when
> he jumped at them. Besides they WERE ready for a fight, since all four
> had their lightsabers out when Palpatine attacked them.
That still doesn't mean they wouldn't be surprised at how powerful he
was. As I've said, they just under-estimated him.
> >>>When you in shock or surprising situations like that you tend to pause
> >>>while your brain goes "what the {beep}" and THEN reacts. By the time
> >>>the Jedi reacted it was too late.
> >>
> >>Five seconds is actually a *really* long time to think about something
> >>and react to it.
> >
> > How many movies have you watched where there's five seconds left on the
> > bomb's timer and yet minutes later they're still trying to disarm it??
>
> None.
Sorry, I forgot that the Barbie movies don't have bombs in them. ;-)
> > Besides which, as I said above, people do freeze at moments of
> > unexpected shock or surprise, and it can be five seconds or even longer
> > before their brain kick-starts them into reacting.
>
> Yes, unless you're trained to handle surprises. Like soldiers, police,
> Jedi etc.
So a trained person is no longer human?
ANYONE can be surprised or shocked or even scared into inaction. Those
trained might handle much more than a child (for example), but it can
and does still happen.
> >>Crap. The Jedi are trained to react fast. YOU would have reacted faster,
> >>even if it was just to run away. The comment about Jedi reflexes is
> >>still valid, a reflex isn't something you NEED to think about, it just
> >>happens.
> >>
> >>If I throw a ball at your head, you flinch. You don't think about it for
> >>5 seconds. Windu's buddies just stood there and got mown down.
> >>
> >>The scene was weak and could have been choreographed more effectively...
> >
> > Throwing a ball isn't even remotely the same thing. Try standing on
> > the road side while a ten ton truck is coming staright at your three
> > year old. Some people will react instinctively and not remember
>
> I have been there and it was f^*king scary. (Yes she is fine BTW) And a
> truck nearly running over your child isn't remotely like the situation
> in the movie either, so lets both drop the analogies.
I'm very glad she was OK.
It's the same basic emotion - you're hugely scared, shocked or
surprised (or all three) and your brain simply can't process anything,
so you freeze.
> > This scene is NOT some magical thing that can't happen. It can happen
> > and it does happen.
>
> It was badly handled, get over it. I'm not saying it couldn't happen
> like that, just that it *shouldn't* have happened like that. It was
> badly choreographed/edited, didn't fit with what we know about Jedi and
> looked plain clumsy.
Well, that's your opinion and its pointless tying to argue against an
opinon. The fact is that things like this can (and do) happen, as you
have agreed in this paragraph basically proves my point. :-)
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #276153 ] |
Fr, 02 Juni 2006 09:29 |
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Anybody wrote:
>>>This scene is NOT some magical thing that can't happen. It can happen
>>>and it does happen.
>>
>>It was badly handled, get over it. I'm not saying it couldn't happen
>>like that, just that it *shouldn't* have happened like that. It was
>>badly choreographed/edited, didn't fit with what we know about Jedi and
>>looked plain clumsy.
>
>
> Well, that's your opinion and its pointless tying to argue against an
> opinon. The fact is that things like this can (and do) happen, as you
> have agreed in this paragraph basically proves my point. :-)
Actually, opinions are the ONLY thing you can argue, since hard fact and
evidence can't be changed through debate...
I say 'The scene looked clumsy, because the Jedi didn't put up any
fight', but you say 'That can happen, people freeze up in situations
like that' which might be true, but doesn't address the original
statement that the scene could have been much improved...
What's your opinion of it? Did you like the scene? What would you have
changed if you didn't like it?
Oh wait, I've tried this before. You don't have an opinion about
anything, except that everyone (bar you) on the Internet is a moron. :-)
H.
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #276155 ] |
Fr, 02 Juni 2006 15:22 |
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allright, how many times have we been through this discussuion????
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #276156 ] |
Fr, 02 Juni 2006 16:40 |
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(snip)
>
> It was badly handled, get over it. I'm not saying it couldn't happen
> like that, just that it *shouldn't* have happened like that. It was
> badly choreographed/edited, didn't fit with what we know about Jedi and
> looked plain clumsy.
>
> H.
Man, I just watched Ep. III over again and I couln't agree with U more
!!!! Especially with that scene!!! It was so rushed and as U wrote
badly put together. All through the movie I thought to myself that I
could have done sooooo much better with the plot, dialogue, etc..
Where's Lawrence Kasdan when U need him?! Or any of the fresh
directors & writers out 2day?!!! Disappointing.
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #276157 ] |
Fr, 02 Juni 2006 16:40 |
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Anybody wrote:
> In article <447f98da$1_1 [at] newspeer2.tds.net>, Josh Rambo
> <marsdragon88 [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Anybody wrote:
>>> In article <447f8140$1_2 [at] newspeer2.tds.net>, Josh Rambo
>>> <marsdragon88 [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anybody wrote:
>>>>> In article <447f3ad7$1_1 [at] newspeer2.tds.net>, Josh Rambo
>>>>> <marsdragon88 [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> CaptAdama wrote:
>>>>>>> did you see how fast he attacked? he killed those jedi in like 5 secs.
>>>>>>> they didnt have any time to react.
>>>>>> "You race pods? You must have Jedi reflexes." (Paraphrase)
>>>>>> So what was that about not having time to react again?
>>>>> Yet again, they were taken by surprise because they vastly
>>>>> under-estimated Palpatine. He looks like an old man and acts like a
>>>>> pleasant person. They had no experience of dealing with Sith Lords.
>>>>>
>>>>> When you in shock or surprising situations like that you tend to pause
>>>>> while your brain goes "what the {beep}" and THEN reacts. By the time
>>>>> the Jedi reacted it was too late.
>>>>>
>>>>> You often hear people saying that time seems to slow down in such
>>>>> situations and you see every tiny detail, but can't seem to react. It's
>>>>> the same thing, the brain is working overtime trying to comprehend
>>>>> whats happeneing and then process a response.
>>>> He looks like an old man. So what? They know he's a Sith Lord. For
>>>> crying out loud, you don't just walk up to a Sith Lord and slap the
>>>> cuffs on. If they thought he was just another old man, would they have
>>>> sent 4 Jedi, one of whom was one of the more powerful Jedi (Windu) to
>>>> arrest him? Of course not. That would be like calling in the marines
>>>> because the guy nextdoor is playing his stereo too loud.
>>> Surprise and having people under-estimate you is a VERY big advantage.
>>> Yoda use the same technique by walking with a cane and yet throwing it
>>> away on the rare times he has to fight.
>>>
>>> Yes he looks like and old man. Yes they were told he was a Sith Lord
>>> ... but they did not KNOW he was a Sith Lord and they had never seen a
>>> Sith Lord. Plus as someone else said, they were there to arrest him,
>>> not kill him. It was only after Mace Windu realised that arresting him
>>> wasn't going to be possible that he (and later Yoda) decided that
>>> killing him was a necessity.
>> Ok. The rumor of the town is that your neighbor is a serial murderer.
>> You see him in a dark alley one night. Do you enter the alley?
>>
>> I'm getting a very strong "Hell no" on that. I may not know for sure
>> he's a serial murderer, but I'm sure not entering that alley. It's just
>> common sense.
>>
>> As for not being there to kill him... if they thought he would come
>> peacefully, they wouldn't have brought so many men.
>
> If you take that line of thinking, then if they had thought Palpatine
> was so strong then surely they would have taken a lot MORE men to
> arrest him.
>
> They were simply surprised by how powerful he was. There's no huge
> mystery or mistake.
No, they just should have taken Jedi instead of Clowns.
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #276591 ] |
Sa, 03 Juni 2006 00:46 |
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In article <ONRfg.1986$ap3.1523 [at] news-server.bigpond.net.au>, H <H [at] r.c>
wrote:
> Anybody wrote:
>
> >>>This scene is NOT some magical thing that can't happen. It can happen
> >>>and it does happen.
> >>
> >>It was badly handled, get over it. I'm not saying it couldn't happen
> >>like that, just that it *shouldn't* have happened like that. It was
> >>badly choreographed/edited, didn't fit with what we know about Jedi and
> >>looked plain clumsy.
> >
> >
> > Well, that's your opinion and its pointless tying to argue against an
> > opinon. The fact is that things like this can (and do) happen, as you
> > have agreed in this paragraph basically proves my point. :-)
>
> Actually, opinions are the ONLY thing you can argue, since hard fact and
> evidence can't be changed through debate...
>
> I say 'The scene looked clumsy, because the Jedi didn't put up any
> fight', but you say 'That can happen, people freeze up in situations
> like that' which might be true, but doesn't address the original
> statement that the scene could have been much improved...
>
> What's your opinion of it? Did you like the scene? What would you have
> changed if you didn't like it?
>
> Oh wait, I've tried this before. You don't have an opinion about
> anything, except that everyone (bar you) on the Internet is a moron. :-)
Opinions aren't worth using up my limited online time discussing.
EVERYONE's opinion is valid, it's when people get the FACTS wrong (such
as freezing actually being possible, even for trained soldiers) that is
worth correcting or when people want ideas for something that is
"missing".
Every single second of every movie / TV show / stage play / etc. can be
"improved" in someone's opinion, but that doesn't make it the best
thing to do, the correct thing to do or even worth wasting time doing.
Georeg Lucas himself has "improved" some scenes that many fans complain
about while other like some or all of the changes - in the end it is
his movie to do what he thinks is best.
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #276592 ] |
Sa, 03 Juni 2006 00:50 |
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In article <44805677_1 [at] newspeer2.tds.net>, Josh Rambo
<marsdragon88 [at] gmail.com> wrote:
> Anybody wrote:
> > In article <447f98da$1_1 [at] newspeer2.tds.net>, Josh Rambo
> > <marsdragon88 [at] gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Anybody wrote:
> >>> In article <447f8140$1_2 [at] newspeer2.tds.net>, Josh Rambo
> >>> <marsdragon88 [at] gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Anybody wrote:
> >>>>> In article <447f3ad7$1_1 [at] newspeer2.tds.net>, Josh Rambo
> >>>>> <marsdragon88 [at] gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> CaptAdama wrote:
> >>>>>>> did you see how fast he attacked? he killed those jedi in like 5 secs.
> >>>>>>> they didnt have any time to react.
> >>>>>> "You race pods? You must have Jedi reflexes." (Paraphrase)
> >>>>>> So what was that about not having time to react again?
> >>>>> Yet again, they were taken by surprise because they vastly
> >>>>> under-estimated Palpatine. He looks like an old man and acts like a
> >>>>> pleasant person. They had no experience of dealing with Sith Lords.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> When you in shock or surprising situations like that you tend to pause
> >>>>> while your brain goes "what the {beep}" and THEN reacts. By the time
> >>>>> the Jedi reacted it was too late.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You often hear people saying that time seems to slow down in such
> >>>>> situations and you see every tiny detail, but can't seem to react. It's
> >>>>> the same thing, the brain is working overtime trying to comprehend
> >>>>> whats happeneing and then process a response.
> >>>> He looks like an old man. So what? They know he's a Sith Lord. For
> >>>> crying out loud, you don't just walk up to a Sith Lord and slap the
> >>>> cuffs on. If they thought he was just another old man, would they have
> >>>> sent 4 Jedi, one of whom was one of the more powerful Jedi (Windu) to
> >>>> arrest him? Of course not. That would be like calling in the marines
> >>>> because the guy nextdoor is playing his stereo too loud.
> >>> Surprise and having people under-estimate you is a VERY big advantage.
> >>> Yoda use the same technique by walking with a cane and yet throwing it
> >>> away on the rare times he has to fight.
> >>>
> >>> Yes he looks like and old man. Yes they were told he was a Sith Lord
> >>> ... but they did not KNOW he was a Sith Lord and they had never seen a
> >>> Sith Lord. Plus as someone else said, they were there to arrest him,
> >>> not kill him. It was only after Mace Windu realised that arresting him
> >>> wasn't going to be possible that he (and later Yoda) decided that
> >>> killing him was a necessity.
> >> Ok. The rumor of the town is that your neighbor is a serial murderer.
> >> You see him in a dark alley one night. Do you enter the alley?
> >>
> >> I'm getting a very strong "Hell no" on that. I may not know for sure
> >> he's a serial murderer, but I'm sure not entering that alley. It's just
> >> common sense.
> >>
> >> As for not being there to kill him... if they thought he would come
> >> peacefully, they wouldn't have brought so many men.
> >
> > If you take that line of thinking, then if they had thought Palpatine
> > was so strong then surely they would have taken a lot MORE men to
> > arrest him.
> >
> > They were simply surprised by how powerful he was. There's no huge
> > mystery or mistake.
>
> No, they just should have taken Jedi instead of Clowns.
Jedi are not "all powerful". Neither are armies, police, etc. They are
all made up of humans (or aliens in the case of Jedi) that CAN and do
make mistakes, etc. Even highly trained soldiers can and do freeze - a
brain can only handle so much at one time, and stressful circumstances
can easily overload it.
If the Jedi were "all powerful" then it would be a fairly pointless set
of movie since they'd have discovered and easily arrested Palpatine
long before Episode I even began.
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #276593 ] |
Sa, 03 Juni 2006 01:13 |
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> No, they just should have taken Jedi instead of Clowns.
After thousands of years of Republic decadence and no real threats (and the
only "real" threat known are TF droid armies), "Jedi" and "Clown" had become
synonymous. The Jedi were about maintaining the status quo. The Chancellor
was the underdog and was working towards an actual goal - that made him lean
and hungry while the Jedi were arrogant and overconfident.
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #276594 ] |
Sa, 03 Juni 2006 01:21 |
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Antnee wrote:
> (snip)
>
>>It was badly handled, get over it. I'm not saying it couldn't happen
>>like that, just that it *shouldn't* have happened like that. It was
>>badly choreographed/edited, didn't fit with what we know about Jedi and
>>looked plain clumsy.
>>
>>H.
>
>
> Man, I just watched Ep. III over again and I couln't agree with U more
> !!!! Especially with that scene!!! It was so rushed and as U wrote
> badly put together. All through the movie I thought to myself that I
> could have done sooooo much better with the plot, dialogue, etc..
> Where's Lawrence Kasdan when U need him?! Or any of the fresh
> directors & writers out 2day?!!! Disappointing.
>
Most of the rest of the movie I really enjoyed, just that particular one
disappointed me...
H.
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #276596 ] |
Sa, 03 Juni 2006 03:24 |
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<biowarble [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149184152.722372.169260 [at] i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Just having read a message about who went with Windu to arrest the
> Chancellor - I was planning on posting this anyway, but the responses
> to that first message are similar.
>
> Why on earth to the Jedi with Windu just stand there and not react when
> Palpatine attacks?
I believe that Palpatine used a great amount of his force power in order to
overpower, and maybe to also stun, the Jedi. I think this is what weakened
him and left him vulnerable to Mace Winu.
> Just like - to me - it seems that Darth Maul seems
> not to react when Obi-Wan uses the force to pull himself up and uses
> the force to pull Qui-Gon's saber to him and then slays Maul.
> Certainly they could have done a better jobs making the fights look
> more realistic in these scenes.
I think that Maul was just shocked that Obi-Wan, a padawan, used the force
to pull himself up and steal Qui-Gon's saber.
W. Pooh (AKA Winnie P.)
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #276598 ] |
Sa, 03 Juni 2006 06:36 |
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In article <lx5gg.137$LN1.55 [at] trndny01>, "Christopher M."
<nospamcm_anon76 [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
> <biowarble [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1149184152.722372.169260 [at] i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > Just having read a message about who went with Windu to arrest the
> > Chancellor - I was planning on posting this anyway, but the responses
> > to that first message are similar.
> >
> > Why on earth to the Jedi with Windu just stand there and not react when
> > Palpatine attacks?
>
> I believe that Palpatine used a great amount of his force power in order to
> overpower, and maybe to also stun, the Jedi. I think this is what weakened
> him and left him vulnerable to Mace Winu.
Palpatine was faking weakness for Anakin's benefit. It was yet another
part of the manipulation to turn Anakin to the Dark Side.
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #276599 ] |
Sa, 03 Juni 2006 08:28 |
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Anybody wrote:
> Palpatine was faking weakness for Anakin's benefit. It was yet another
> part of the manipulation to turn Anakin to the Dark Side.
I agree, Windu was no match for Sidious.
H.
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #276604 ] |
So, 04 Juni 2006 01:25 |
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"Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
news:030620061636582110%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
>
> Palpatine was faking weakness for Anakin's benefit. It was yet another
> part of the manipulation to turn Anakin to the Dark Side.
I don't think Palpatine would fake weakness for anyone's benefit. I think he
would strike Windu down, if he could.
W. Pooh (AKA Winnie P.)
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #276605 ] |
So, 04 Juni 2006 04:54 |
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In article <jTogg.838$Vo4.500 [at] trndny04>, "Christopher M."
<nospamcm_anon76 [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
> news:030620061636582110%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> >
> > Palpatine was faking weakness for Anakin's benefit. It was yet another
> > part of the manipulation to turn Anakin to the Dark Side.
>
> I don't think Palpatine would fake weakness for anyone's benefit. I think he
> would strike Windu down, if he could.
Everything Palpatine does is well planned for his advantage. He is
constantly manipulating everyone around him. It's only at the end of
the Saga when he is over-confident that he makes a mistake.
Palpatine pretends to be weak so that Anakin will side with him against
the "corrupt" Mace Windu - Anakin thinks he is saving the underdog, and
only afterwards realises that he's made a massive mistake and that it
is now far too late. At that point he gives up (still with the hope
that he is at least saving Padmé) and fully gives in to the Dark Side
.... until Luke retrieves the deeply buried good that still resides in
him.
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #276611 ] |
Mo, 05 Juni 2006 12:20 |
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Christopher M. wrote:
> "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
> news:030620061636582110%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> >
> > Palpatine was faking weakness for Anakin's benefit. It was yet another
> > part of the manipulation to turn Anakin to the Dark Side.
>
> I don't think Palpatine would fake weakness for anyone's benefit. I think he
> would strike Windu down, if he could.
>
>
> W. Pooh (AKA Winnie P.)
George Lucas says in the commentary something about how he changed the
scene to make Palpatine fake weakness (I can't remember exactly what he
said).
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #276612 ] |
Mo, 05 Juni 2006 12:28 |
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biowarble [at] hotmail.com wrote:
> Just having read a message about who went with Windu to arrest the
> Chancellor - I was planning on posting this anyway, but the responses
> to that first message are similar.
>
> Why on earth to the Jedi with Windu just stand there and not react when
> Palpatine attacks? Just like - to me - it seems that Darth Maul seems
> not to react when Obi-Wan uses the force to pull himself up and uses
> the force to pull Qui-Gon's saber to him and then slays Maul.
> Certainly they could have done a better jobs making the fights look
> more realistic in these scenes.
I think the scene was designed to show just how powerful Sidious was. I
agree that it could possibly have been choreographed slightly better
but I don't think it takes too much away from the fact that it was a
good film (IMO).
The Obi-Wan/Darth Maul defeat I have always felt could have been done
slightly better as well. It was such an amazing fight scene but lost
its momentum when Darth Maul force pushed Obi-Wan down the shaft. It
looked a bit pathetic how slow Darth Maul reacted when you consider how
fast he was moving only a few minutes before... again it's only a movie
and it was the only way to end the scene I guess.
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #279489 ] |
Di, 13 Juni 2006 09:05 |
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On 02 Jun 2006, you wrote in alt.fan.starwars:
> I say 'The scene looked clumsy, because the Jedi didn't put up any
> fight', but you say 'That can happen, people freeze up in situations
> like that' which might be true, but doesn't address the original
> statement that the scene could have been much improved...
>
> What's your opinion of it? Did you like the scene? What would you have
> changed if you didn't like it?
Jumping in to this thread from an angle... I thought the Jedi's with Mace
were either clumsy or not masters. From a storytelling point of view,
then needed to get those guys out of the way so that the action was Mace
vs. the Emperor. It's much more exciting that way. They did something
similar in Phantom Menace by splitting up Obi-Wan and Qui-Gong when they
were battling Darth (I'm going shopping at the) Maul. But anyway, maybe
Mace Windu's Jedi companions were not Masters and were just regular Jedi
who had no chance against a Sith Lord. It's all speculation unless Uncle
George has the answers somewhere.
Peace,
Chris
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #279490 ] |
Di, 13 Juni 2006 09:28 |
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In article <Xns97E11F62C217Astaroakyyzyahoocom [at] 69.28.186.158>, Star
<staroakyyz [at] NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
> On 02 Jun 2006, you wrote in alt.fan.starwars:
>
> > I say 'The scene looked clumsy, because the Jedi didn't put up any
> > fight', but you say 'That can happen, people freeze up in situations
> > like that' which might be true, but doesn't address the original
> > statement that the scene could have been much improved...
> >
> > What's your opinion of it? Did you like the scene? What would you have
> > changed if you didn't like it?
>
> Jumping in to this thread from an angle... I thought the Jedi's with Mace
> were either clumsy or not masters. From a storytelling point of view,
> then needed to get those guys out of the way so that the action was Mace
> vs. the Emperor. It's much more exciting that way. They did something
> similar in Phantom Menace by splitting up Obi-Wan and Qui-Gong when they
> were battling Darth (I'm going shopping at the) Maul. But anyway, maybe
> Mace Windu's Jedi companions were not Masters and were just regular Jedi
> who had no chance against a Sith Lord. It's all speculation unless Uncle
> George has the answers somewhere.
One of them was Kit Fisto. I'm not sure who the other two were off the
top of my head, but I recall reading somewhere that one was a Padawan
(or a recently graduated from Padawan).
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #279491 ] |
Di, 13 Juni 2006 17:17 |
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On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 19:28:52 +1200, Anybody
<anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote:
>In article <Xns97E11F62C217Astaroakyyzyahoocom [at] 69.28.186.158>, Star
><staroakyyz [at] NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On 02 Jun 2006, you wrote in alt.fan.starwars:
>>
>> > I say 'The scene looked clumsy, because the Jedi didn't put up any
>> > fight', but you say 'That can happen, people freeze up in situations
>> > like that' which might be true, but doesn't address the original
>> > statement that the scene could have been much improved...
>> >
>> > What's your opinion of it? Did you like the scene? What would you have
>> > changed if you didn't like it?
>>
>> Jumping in to this thread from an angle... I thought the Jedi's with Mace
>> were either clumsy or not masters. From a storytelling point of view,
>> then needed to get those guys out of the way so that the action was Mace
>> vs. the Emperor. It's much more exciting that way. They did something
>> similar in Phantom Menace by splitting up Obi-Wan and Qui-Gong when they
>> were battling Darth (I'm going shopping at the) Maul. But anyway, maybe
>> Mace Windu's Jedi companions were not Masters and were just regular Jedi
>> who had no chance against a Sith Lord. It's all speculation unless Uncle
>> George has the answers somewhere.
>
>One of them was Kit Fisto. I'm not sure who the other two were off the
>top of my head, but I recall reading somewhere that one was a Padawan
>(or a recently graduated from Padawan).
Nonsense. The four Masters who confronted Palpatine were Mace Windu,
Kit Fisto, Saesee Tinn, and Agen Kolar. All were highly experienced
Jedi Masters. Windu wouldn't take a Padawan to confront a Sith
Master.
Todd
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #279511 ] |
Mi, 14 Juni 2006 13:09 |
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"Todd" <twrexxnospam [at] earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1klt825bo28k1e5bss1ranfqdsl82sg4a1 [at] 4ax.com...
> Nonsense. The four Masters who confronted Palpatine were Mace Windu,
> Kit Fisto, Saesee Tinn, and Agen Kolar. All were highly experienced
> Jedi Masters. Windu wouldn't take a Padawan to confront a Sith
> Master.
Agreed. They were all members of the Jedi Council and, as Anakin stated,
it's impossible to be on the Council and not be a Master.
--
"Where does he get those wonderful toys?"
http://esnips.com/web/MyStarWarsToys
http://groups.msn.com/MyStarWarsCollection/shoebox.msnw
http://www.alt.fan.starwars.freeservers.com/
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| Re: This really annoys me.... [message #279524 ] |
Do, 15 Juni 2006 11:48 |
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In article <m7Sjg.9310$ap3.4383 [at] news-server.bigpond.net.au>, "Brett
McConnie" <quadinaros [at] australiamail.com> wrote:
> "Todd" <twrexxnospam [at] earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:1klt825bo28k1e5bss1ranfqdsl82sg4a1 [at] 4ax.com...
> > Nonsense. The four Masters who confronted Palpatine were Mace Windu,
> > Kit Fisto, Saesee Tinn, and Agen Kolar. All were highly experienced
> > Jedi Masters. Windu wouldn't take a Padawan to confront a Sith
> > Master.
>
> Agreed. They were all members of the Jedi Council and, as Anakin stated,
> it's impossible to be on the Council and not be a Master.
It *could have* been possible for Mace Windu to simply have had little
choice who to take since so many Jedi were out fighting in the Clone
Wars and couldn't trust Anakin. He *might have* had to take Jedi who
weren't Masters just to have a larger party of men.
BUT
now knowing the names and having looked through where I think I might
have read one was a "Padawan", I obviously misremembered it - what it
actually says is that Saesee Tinn hasn't chosen a Padawan, not that he
was a Padawan / recent Padawan.
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