Sprinkler Systems Uhaul move Lawn care Roses and trees Ford Parts Chrysler Parts Lake Powell New IPod Touch Apps New IPhone Apps IPhone Apps IPad Information IPad Apps Android APPS Android Games APPS Android Systems Android Tablets APPS and Beyond Smartphone Apps Smartphone Games Apps Repair and Tools Tablet PC Car Sharing Car Leasing Tabler Pc Fly Fishing Toyota Cars Vacation Rentals Stock market NYSE SSE Stock Freight & Shipping News Gluten Lactose Gout My Coupon Life Campgrounds Check Outdoor Kitchen Design and Redoo Bath Remodeling Palm Springs Las Vegas Vacation Tipps Lake Powell Boating Homes for lease Electric and green Car Blog Pearls and diamonds Whatsapp and forget SMS Blog, What is Whatsapp App Solar Panel Solar Energie Sun Power Blog
Reader


[Suche]  [Administrator]  [Hinweise zum Reader]  [Startseite]
Fantasy » alt.fan.harry-potter » New leader of OOP
New leader of OOP [message #265283] Mo, 15 Mai 2006 00:17
Thomas Madura  
Okay - lets move on to another topic.

DD is dead

WHo will be the new leader of the OOP?
Re: New leader of OOP [message #265288 ] Mo, 15 Mai 2006 01:39
devnull  
Thom Madura wrote:

> Okay - lets move on to another topic.
>
> DD is dead

But! Are you certain?

;)

> WHo will be the new leader of the OOP?

--
Take the Snape polls: http://snape.mosteo.com [Updated 16/Aug/05]
Re: New leader of OOP [message #265295 ] Mo, 15 Mai 2006 06:55
dicconf  
In article <4cptcbF173s1tU1 [at] individual.net>,
Jano <devnull [at] mailinator.com> wrote:
>Thom Madura wrote:
>
>> Okay - lets move on to another topic.
>>
>> DD is dead
>
>But! Are you certain?
>
>;)

So who'll run it pro tem, until or unless Dd comes back?
It would hardly have been worth the bother if he came back offscreen
before the beginning of the next book. Meanwhile...

>> Who will be the new leader of the OOP?

McGonagall, or Mad-Eye Moody. As an outside long-shot, Aberforth.

Harry can't run it; he's too young, too inexperienced, and has
a major problem in the connection to Voldemort, which is still
"live" anytime Voldemort wants it to be.

Bill is still healing, Mundungus is untrustworthy and not bright
enough anyway, Lupin is not effective for part of the month.
Arthur is kept busy with his MoM job, the various Aurors can't
take that much time away from their duties to run the group.
Nobody would take orders from the twins. Molly isn't the type
either.

=Tamar
Re: New leader of OOP [message #265298 ] Mo, 15 Mai 2006 08:46
cspirit  
What you have written sounds logical.

Call it wishful thinking, but many people (including me) imagine Harry
becoming the Leader of the OOtP.
It fits in; harry taking the position of Dumbedore. And he has led DA
successfully too.

Also, people say that Hagrid will now be head of Gryffindor.
I have difficulty imagining that.
Re: New leader of OOP [message #265309 ] Mo, 15 Mai 2006 10:46
xu.chiang  
Don't you think Harry is too young? And as Richard Eney said, he might
have some connection to the Voldemort, maybe it could be mind problems
too.
We couldn't imagine what would happen if Harry take charge of the OOP,
though DA was succeful to some extent. Please remember what happened in
the office.
:)
Re: New leader of OOP [message #265314 ] Mo, 15 Mai 2006 14:27
Thomas Madura  
xu.chiang [at] gmail.com wrote:

> Don't you think Harry is too young? And as Richard Eney said, he might
> have some connection to the Voldemort, maybe it could be mind problems
> too.
> We couldn't imagine what would happen if Harry take charge of the OOP,
> though DA was succeful to some extent. Please remember what happened in
> the office.
> :)
>

I am not so sure that Harry is too young - but too inexperienced. Manyh
of these wizards have a long history of fighting V - and are certainly
better wizards at the moment than Harry. I would also believe that they
were told the prophecy by DD - which is enough of a load for Harry.
Re: New leader of OOP [message #265338 ] Mo, 15 Mai 2006 18:01
Joe Curwen  
In article <j0O9g.60399$Fs1.9992 [at] bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, Thom
Madura says...
>
>Okay - lets move on to another topic.
>
>DD is dead
>
>WHo will be the new leader of the OOP?




I think it would make the most sense story-wise to have the OOP take orders from
Dumbledore's portrait.

This situation has been set up since OOTP, when we saw Kreacher taking orders
from the portrait of Mrs. Black. Kreacher was seen as emotionally being unable
to let go of his former mistress and this was part of his madness.

Similarly, the surviving members of the Order won't be able to let go of DD's
leadership, and it will be seen as equally pitiable and crazy. Their reliance on
the portrait will marginalize them in terms of the action of the story, I think.
This is necessary because if the main reason to get rid of Dumbledore was to
force Harry to go on alone, then it will also be necessary to marginalize the
OOTP too, and it is economical to do it this way. Also, it might help JKR to
underscore the idea that there is an inherent wrongness with ghosts and
portraits as vestiages of the living.

--
Joe


--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth
Re: New leader of OOP [message #265368 ] Di, 16 Mai 2006 04:32
John VanSickle  
Thom Madura wrote:

> Okay - lets move on to another topic.
>
> DD is dead

Naw, he's restin'!

Regards,
John
Re: New leader of OOP [message #265378 ] Di, 16 Mai 2006 09:02
dicconf  
In article <e4a8k802bgm [at] drn.newsguy.com>,
Joe Curwen <jcurwen [at] freeonline.com> wrote:
>Thom Madura says...

>>WHo will be the new leader of the OOP?
>
>I think it would make the most sense story-wise to have the OOP take orders
>from Dumbledore's portrait.
>
>This situation has been set up since OOTP, when we saw Kreacher taking orders
>from the portrait of Mrs. Black. Kreacher was seen as emotionally being unable
>to let go of his former mistress and this was part of his madness.
>
>Similarly, the surviving members of the Order won't be able to let go of DD's
>leadership, and it will be seen as equally pitiable and crazy. Their reliance
>on the portrait will marginalize them in terms of the action of the story,
>I think.
>This is necessary because if the main reason to get rid of Dumbledore was to
>force Harry to go on alone, then it will also be necessary to marginalize the
>OOTP too, and it is economical to do it this way.

Somehow I can't see them carrying Dumbledore's portrait into battle so they
can take orders.

> Also, it might help JKR to underscore the idea that there is an inherent
>wrongness with ghosts and portraits as vestiges of the living.

Why do you think she is trying to do that?

I don't recall any "inherent wrongness" being described with respect to
ghosts or portraits, nor with respect to the echoes from Voldemort's wand.

The ghosts in the opening scene when the kids arrive at Hogwarts seemed happy
enough. The ghosts at at Sir Nick's party as being stuck in their old habits
- jealousy, gluttony, pride, etc - and not enjoying their existence that much
at that time, but at other times they seem happy enough.

What JKR has said in interviews seems to indicate that she doesn't consider
the portraits to be the person at all, just a kind of computer Saved-Game
of the personality. The echoes in Voldemort's wand (although they certainly
behaved like Beings) she has also said were not the soul, just echoes of the
personality and therefore like the portraits. In the context of the story,
neither the portraits nor the echoes were described as having any inherent
wrongness.

=Tamar
Re: New leader of OOP [message #265385 ] Di, 16 Mai 2006 09:53
dsueme  
Thom Madura wrote:

> WHo will be the new leader of the OOP?

It's leaders (DD and Serius) dead, OOP will disintigrate and become a
non-factor.

Harry is already powerful - but his anti-dark arts skills are not
complete. Harry will leave Hogwarts for the wild, where he will meet a
Master who will complete his training (Dobby, perhaps? He'd be about
the right size). Then he will return and confront the Darth Lord
alone, without the support of the secret society that failed.

Dave
Re: New leader of OOP [message #265387 ] Di, 16 Mai 2006 09:59
Toon  
On Mon, 15 May 2006 04:55:47 -0000, dicconf [at] radix.net (Richard Eney)
wrote:

>In article <4cptcbF173s1tU1 [at] individual.net>,
>Jano <devnull [at] mailinator.com> wrote:
>>Thom Madura wrote:
>>
>>> Okay - lets move on to another topic.
>>>
>>> DD is dead
>>
>>But! Are you certain?
>>
>>;)
>
>So who'll run it pro tem, until or unless Dd comes back?
>It would hardly have been worth the bother if he came back offscreen
>before the beginning of the next book. Meanwhile...
>
>>> Who will be the new leader of the OOP?
>
>McGonagall, or Mad-Eye Moody. As an outside long-shot, Aberforth.

Well, McGonagall was the Deputy Head Misstress in COS. No reason that
should change unless she really did do a horrible job. Oh no. She
was currently in charge at the end of HBP, reappointing Slughorn House
Head. And unlike in COS< everybody believes this to be a long term
deal.

So McGonagall must be in charge.
Re: New leader of OOP [message #265388 ] Di, 16 Mai 2006 09:59
Toon  
On 14 May 2006 23:46:31 -0700, "Dumbledore's Man" <cspirit [at] gmail.com>
wrote:

>What you have written sounds logical.
>
>Call it wishful thinking, but many people (including me) imagine Harry
>becoming the Leader of the OOtP.
>It fits in; harry taking the position of Dumbedore. And he has led DA
>successfully too.
>
>Also, people say that Hagrid will now be head of Gryffindor.
>I have difficulty imagining that.

But Hagrid was summoned with the other heads.
Re: New leader of OOP [message #265396 ] Di, 16 Mai 2006 11:46
Deevo  
"David Sueme" <dsueme [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1147765992.277025.103770 [at] i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Thom Madura wrote:
>
>> WHo will be the new leader of the OOP?
>
> It's leaders (DD and Serius) dead, OOP will disintigrate and become a
> non-factor.

I doubt it, though he's unlikely to be their leader Harry will be a rallying
point for the order. As for who may be a leader it's a hard call to make,
maybe Bill Weasley I don't know.

> Harry is already powerful - but his anti-dark arts skills are not
> complete. Harry will leave Hogwarts for the wild, where he will meet a
> Master who will complete his training (Dobby, perhaps? He'd be about
> the right size). Then he will return and confront the Darth Lord
> alone, without the support of the secret society that failed.

Again I doubt it, Harry won't beat Voldemort on pure strength, fighting fire
with fire just won't work for him. What he needs to do is find a weakness
and exploit it, much as he inadvertantly did at the end of the MOM battle
when Voldemort posessed him.
--
Deevo
Geraldton Western Australia
http://members.westnet.com.au/mckenzie/index.htm
Re: New leader of OOP [message #265400 ] Di, 16 Mai 2006 15:31
Philip Lewis  
John VanSickle <evilsnack [at] earthlink.net> writes:
>Thom Madura wrote:
>> DD is dead
>Naw, he's restin'!

He's not pining! He's passed on! Albus is no more! He has ceased to be!
He's expired and gone to meet his maker! He's a stiff! Bereft of life,
He rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed Him to the perch he'd be
pushing up the daisies! His metabolic processes are now History!
He's off the twig! He's kicked the bucket, he's shuffled off his
mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir
invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-HEADMASTER!!

(Apologies to M.P. ;)

--
May no harm befall you,
flip
Ich habe keine Ahnung was das bedeutet, oder vielleicht doch?
In my email replace SeeEmmYou.EeeDeeYou with CMU.EDU
Re: New leader of OOP [message #265410 ] Di, 16 Mai 2006 22:38
John VanSickle  
David Sueme wrote:
> Thom Madura wrote:
>
>>WHo will be the new leader of the OOP?
>
> It's leaders (DD and Serius) dead, OOP will disintigrate and become a
> non-factor.

Nah. Arthur Weasley is just as qualified as Sirius to lead it.

Regards,
John
Re: New leader of OOP [message #265413 ] Mi, 17 Mai 2006 01:01
Thomas Madura  
Philip Lewis wrote:

> John VanSickle <evilsnack [at] earthlink.net> writes:
>
>>Thom Madura wrote:
>>
>>>DD is dead
>>
>>Naw, he's restin'!
>
>
> He's not pining! He's passed on! Albus is no more! He has ceased to be!
> He's expired and gone to meet his maker! He's a stiff! Bereft of life,
> He rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed Him to the perch he'd be
> pushing up the daisies! His metabolic processes are now History!
> He's off the twig! He's kicked the bucket, he's shuffled off his
> mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir
> invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-HEADMASTER!!
>
> (Apologies to M.P. ;)
>



Now - I will make a statement regarding the above.

Either Snape is a traitor - or Dumbledore is alive.

Meanwhile - Fawkes flew away.

IF Dumbledore was dead - Fawkes would have stayed with Harry.
Re: New leader of OOP [message #265421 ] Mi, 17 Mai 2006 03:06
mystic  
Philip Lewis wrote:
> John VanSickle <evilsnack [at] earthlink.net> writes:
>
>>Thom Madura wrote:
>>
>>>DD is dead
>>
>>Naw, he's restin'!
>
>
> He's not pining! He's passed on! Albus is no more! He has ceased to be!
> He's expired and gone to meet his maker! He's a stiff! Bereft of life,
> He rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed Him to the perch he'd be
> pushing up the daisies! His metabolic processes are now History!
> He's off the twig! He's kicked the bucket, he's shuffled off his
> mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir
> invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-HEADMASTER!!
>
> (Apologies to M.P. ;)
>
Hmmmm....

There are two main factors in becoming a ghost.

-Being a witch or wizard.
-And having a reason to stick around after death.

Perhaps we will see a ghost Dumbledore haunting Hogwarts.
Re: New leader of OOP [message #267632 ] Mi, 17 Mai 2006 09:49
dsueme  
Deevo wrote:
> "David Sueme" <dsueme [at] comcast.net> wrote in message

[OOP falls apart]

> I doubt it, though he's unlikely to be their leader Harry will be a rallying
> point for the order. As for who may be a leader it's a hard call to make,
> maybe Bill Weasley I don't know.

When a tool is no longer of use to JKR she has a real tendency to
simply lose it. I think we will never hear of thestrals again and
never hear much of OOP. Just a shot in the dark...

> > Harry is already powerful - but his anti-dark arts skills are not
> > complete. Harry will leave Hogwarts for the wild, where he will meet a
> > Master who will complete his training

> Again I doubt it, Harry won't beat Voldemort on pure strength, fighting fire
> with fire just won't work for him. What he needs to do is find a weakness
> and exploit it, much as he inadvertantly did at the end of the MOM battle
> when Voldemort posessed him.

Dude, what I was saying was that I think HP7 is going to look a lot
like it is inspired by "The Empire Strikes Back", the "Yoda" training
sequences (that would be "...a master who will complete..." through the
end of "Return of the Jedi"). Not picking up on what I was talking
about - your response is pretty much incoherent.

Why don't you us all a favor. Don't respond to my posts when your
first read them. Reflect on thier meaning for a day - two if necessary
- and then try your best to respond to the topic on which I wrote.

Dave
Re: New leader of OOP [message #267633 ] Mi, 17 Mai 2006 10:11
Toon  
On Tue, 16 May 2006 18:06:14 -0700, *MYSTIC* <mystic [at] thecave.net>
wrote:

>Philip Lewis wrote:
>> John VanSickle <evilsnack [at] earthlink.net> writes:
>>
>>>Thom Madura wrote:
>>>
>>>>DD is dead
>>>
>>>Naw, he's restin'!
>>
>>
>> He's not pining! He's passed on! Albus is no more! He has ceased to be!
>> He's expired and gone to meet his maker! He's a stiff! Bereft of life,
>> He rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed Him to the perch he'd be
>> pushing up the daisies! His metabolic processes are now History!
>> He's off the twig! He's kicked the bucket, he's shuffled off his
>> mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir
>> invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-HEADMASTER!!
>>
>> (Apologies to M.P. ;)
>>
>Hmmmm....
>
>There are two main factors in becoming a ghost.
>
>-Being a witch or wizard.
>-And having a reason to stick around after death.
>
>Perhaps we will see a ghost Dumbledore haunting Hogwarts.

No, it's a fear of moving on. DD welcomes death. He wouldn't miss it
for the world.
Re: New leader of OOP [message #267634 ] Mi, 17 Mai 2006 10:08
Toon  
On Tue, 16 May 2006 07:02:32 -0000, dicconf [at] radix.net (Richard Eney)
wrote:

>Somehow I can't see them carrying Dumbledore's portrait into battle so they
>can take orders.

Use the two way mirrors. Perhaps that is how the broken mirror figure
sin. One shard with he Portait, one with each Phoenix and DA.
Re: New leader of OOP [message #267635 ] Mi, 17 Mai 2006 10:09
Toon  
On 16 May 2006 00:53:12 -0700, "David Sueme" <dsueme [at] comcast.net>
wrote:

>Harry will leave Hogwarts for the wild, where he will meet a
>Master who will complete his training (Dobby, perhaps? He'd be about
>the right size).

Teach you, Dobby will, yes.
Re: New leader of OOP [message #267647 ] Mi, 17 Mai 2006 12:46
Aselloth  
Either Snape is a traitor - or Dumbledore is alive?
I have a doubt about that statement. I find Snape a really intriguing
person, very dislikeable, but through six books on the good side and
I'll be pretty disappointed if JKR will just leave him with LV. I guess
he still might surprise us.
Dumbledore is dead, there is no question about it, it seems a
reasonable thing to happen if Harry is going to have to face LV in a
"final battle". (and also because JKR herself said so!) The same reason
leads to a conclusion that OOP will become confused and inefective.
About Fawkes ... I have a feeling it'll come back ;)
Re: New leader of OOP [message #267649 ] Mi, 17 Mai 2006 14:24
Thomas Madura  
Aselloth wrote:
> Either Snape is a traitor - or Dumbledore is alive?
> I have a doubt about that statement. I find Snape a really intriguing
> person, very dislikeable, but through six books on the good side and
> I'll be pretty disappointed if JKR will just leave him with LV. I guess
> he still might surprise us.
> Dumbledore is dead, there is no question about it, it seems a
> reasonable thing to happen if Harry is going to have to face LV in a
> "final battle". (and also because JKR herself said so!) The same reason
> leads to a conclusion that OOP will become confused and inefective.
> About Fawkes ... I have a feeling it'll come back ;)
>


Fawkes will definitely be back.

However - for the last 6 books - the only person who believed in Snape
was Dumbledore. If DD's death is real - and if it was staged by DD to
get Snape back into V's good graces - then no one will trust Snape now.
That would leave him as an internal plant in the Death Eaters without
real trust from either side - remembering that it was SNape that stopped
Quirrel during the Troll scene in SS. V was there.

If DD planned it this way - I doubt he would have told anyone to prevent
a future problem.

However - the fact that Fawkes "went away" the same day DD did could
imply that Fawkes is following DD somewhere.
Re: New leader of OOP [message #267657 ] Mi, 17 Mai 2006 16:24
wadkin2000  
Thom Madura wrote:
> Aselloth wrote:
> > Either Snape is a traitor - or Dumbledore is alive?
> > I have a doubt about that statement. I find Snape a really intriguing
> > person, very dislikeable, but through six books on the good side and
> > I'll be pretty disappointed if JKR will just leave him with LV. I guess
> > he still might surprise us.
> > Dumbledore is dead, there is no question about it, it seems a
> > reasonable thing to happen if Harry is going to have to face LV in a
> > "final battle". (and also because JKR herself said so!) The same reason
> > leads to a conclusion that OOP will become confused and inefective.
> > About Fawkes ... I have a feeling it'll come back ;)
> >
>
>
> Fawkes will definitely be back.
>
> However - for the last 6 books - the only person who believed in Snape
> was Dumbledore. If DD's death is real - and if it was staged by DD to
> get Snape back into V's good graces - then no one will trust Snape now.
> That would leave him as an internal plant in the Death Eaters without
> real trust from either side - remembering that it was SNape that stopped
> Quirrel during the Troll scene in SS. V was there.
>
> If DD planned it this way - I doubt he would have told anyone to prevent
> a future problem.
>
> However - the fact that Fawkes "went away" the same day DD did could
> imply that Fawkes is following DD somewhere.


It's quite possible that by the end of the series, the Order won't be
needed (at least at the end of book seven). If V IS vanquished and some
of the DEs killed, I think it gives the WW breathing room for awhile.
The Order can disband and then be reformed in the future when the next
LV emerges.
Re: New leader of OOP [message #267661 ] Mi, 17 Mai 2006 17:09
Thomas Madura  
wadkin2000 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> Thom Madura wrote:
>
>>Aselloth wrote:
>>
>>>Either Snape is a traitor - or Dumbledore is alive?
>>>I have a doubt about that statement. I find Snape a really intriguing
>>>person, very dislikeable, but through six books on the good side and
>>>I'll be pretty disappointed if JKR will just leave him with LV. I guess
>>>he still might surprise us.
>>>Dumbledore is dead, there is no question about it, it seems a
>>>reasonable thing to happen if Harry is going to have to face LV in a
>>>"final battle". (and also because JKR herself said so!) The same reason
>>>leads to a conclusion that OOP will become confused and inefective.
>>>About Fawkes ... I have a feeling it'll come back ;)
>>>
>>
>>
>>Fawkes will definitely be back.
>>
>>However - for the last 6 books - the only person who believed in Snape
>>was Dumbledore. If DD's death is real - and if it was staged by DD to
>>get Snape back into V's good graces - then no one will trust Snape now.
>>That would leave him as an internal plant in the Death Eaters without
>>real trust from either side - remembering that it was SNape that stopped
>>Quirrel during the Troll scene in SS. V was there.
>>
>>If DD planned it this way - I doubt he would have told anyone to prevent
>> a future problem.
>>
>>However - the fact that Fawkes "went away" the same day DD did could
>>imply that Fawkes is following DD somewhere.
>
>
>
> It's quite possible that by the end of the series, the Order won't be
> needed (at least at the end of book seven). If V IS vanquished and some
> of the DEs killed, I think it gives the WW breathing room for awhile.
> The Order can disband and then be reformed in the future when the next
> LV emerges.
>


Obviously - that is what happened the first time V disappeared.

However - we already know the name of the next big evil - Umbridge.
Re: New leader of OOP [message #267699 ] Do, 18 Mai 2006 04:31
kilroy  
"Thom Madura" <Thom-Madura [at] Worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:j0O9g.60399$Fs1.9992 [at] bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Okay - lets move on to another topic.
>
> DD is dead
>
> WHo will be the new leader of the OOP?
>
The real problem with figuring something like this out is how do you replace
someone like Dumbledore? No one else has his experience or wisdom. The
problem is that no real leaders seemed to have jumped out. Everyone always
defers to Dumbledore.

Harry, while obviously a leader, would not be a good choice because he is
too young, too inexperienced, too impulsive, and because he has to find the
horcruxes. He can't really lead the Order if he's running all over Britain
looking for Voldemort's horcruxes. Yes, Harry, Ron, and Hermione have to be
the ones to find them. The knowledge of their existence must be kept from
anyone else who doesn't know, for their own safety.

There are only two people that I can think of that could follow Dumbledore.
Mad Eye Moody would be my first choice because of his experience. At the
same time however, he seems rather unstable to me. Describing him as
paranoid is not a stretch, and a paranoid leader is not a good thing (see
Josef Stalin. Not that Moody would purge the Order in a blood bath or
anything, but you can see what that kind of instability in a leader can
cause.)

My second choice is Lupin. He seems to have a good head on his shoulders,
willing to think things through before he makes a decision. Then again, the
whole werewolf thing could pose a problem, taking him out of commission for
a couple of days a month.
--
Kilroy was here.
"Jumping out of a perfectly good aircraft is not a natural act." - Clint
Eastwood
Re: New leader of OOP [message #269615 ] Do, 18 Mai 2006 12:41
Deevo  
"Kilroy" <kilroy1941 [at] verizon.net> wrote in message
news:duSag.5932$343.1237 [at] trnddc06...

> The real problem with figuring something like this out is how do you
> replace someone like Dumbledore? No one else has his experience or
> wisdom. The problem is that no real leaders seemed to have jumped out.
> Everyone always defers to Dumbledore.

Yes, and that makes a problem for the order, no one in particular seemed to
be Dumbledore's second.

> Harry, while obviously a leader, would not be a good choice because he is
> too young, too inexperienced, too impulsive, and because he has to find
> the horcruxes. He can't really lead the Order if he's running all over
> Britain looking for Voldemort's horcruxes. Yes, Harry, Ron, and Hermione
> have to be the ones to find them. The knowledge of their existence must
> be kept from anyone else who doesn't know, for their own safety.
>
> There are only two people that I can think of that could follow
> Dumbledore. Mad Eye Moody would be my first choice because of his
> experience. At the same time however, he seems rather unstable to me.
> Describing him as paranoid is not a stretch, and a paranoid leader is not
> a good thing (see Josef Stalin. Not that Moody would purge the Order in a
> blood bath or anything, but you can see what that kind of instability in a
> leader can cause.)
>
> My second choice is Lupin. He seems to have a good head on his shoulders,
> willing to think things through before he makes a decision. Then again,
> the whole werewolf thing could pose a problem, taking him out of
> commission for a couple of days a month.

The order as it stands seems to be a fairly small operation and no member
seems to have been particularly prominent, at least in Harry's field of
vision. Arthur seems a bit too laid back to take on the role, but that may
not be a fair view of him because he's always been in a paternal role when
Harry has been present even when he was at the hospital. I'm pretty evenly
divided between Remus, Bill or Kingsley at this stage but it really remains
to be seen. I can't see the order falling apart as some might wish, the
organisation seems to be too oriented on it's goal for that.
--
Deevo
Geraldton Western Australia
http://members.westnet.com.au/mckenzie/index.htm
Re: New leader of OOP [message #269622 ] Do, 18 Mai 2006 14:08
Aselloth  
"However - the fact that Fawkes "went away" the same day DD did could
imply that Fawkes is following DD somewhere."

As much as I would like to think that (DD is to my opinion probably the
most likeable person in the whole series) I don't think it's true.
Would DD's portrait appear in the headmaster's room if he was still
alive?
Furthermore, as I have already mentioned, JKR said in one of her
interviews that DD really IS dead and is not coming back.
Alas. But it seems reasonable from the writers point of view.
Re: New leader of OOP [message #269647 ] Do, 18 Mai 2006 18:20
John Duncan Yoyo  
On 18 May 2006 05:08:14 -0700, "Aselloth" <aselloth [at] gmail.com> wrote:

>"However - the fact that Fawkes "went away" the same day DD did could
>imply that Fawkes is following DD somewhere."
>
>As much as I would like to think that (DD is to my opinion probably the
>most likeable person in the whole series) I don't think it's true.
>Would DD's portrait appear in the headmaster's room if he was still
>alive?

Not particularly proof. Well newspaper pictures appear while people
are still alive. It may still be part of a deep cover and faked
death. It would have been done if he had died so they would have done
it.

>Furthermore, as I have already mentioned, JKR said in one of her
>interviews that DD really IS dead and is not coming back.
>Alas. But it seems reasonable from the writers point of view.

Like she is a reliable source. ;-)
--
John Duncan Yoyo
------------------------------o)
Brought to you by the Binks for Senate campaign comittee.
Coruscant is far, far away from wesa on Naboo.
Re: New leader of OOP [message #269668 ] Do, 18 Mai 2006 20:10
karnak17  
Richard Eney wrote:
> In article <e4a8k802bgm [at] drn.newsguy.com>,
> Joe Curwen <jcurwen [at] freeonline.com> wrote:
<snip>
> >I think it would make the most sense story-wise to have the OOP take orders
> >from Dumbledore's portrait.
> >
> >This situation has been set up since OOTP, when we saw Kreacher taking orders
> >from the portrait of Mrs. Black. Kreacher was seen as emotionally being unable
> >to let go of his former mistress and this was part of his madness.
> >
> >Similarly, the surviving members of the Order won't be able to let go of DD's
> >leadership, and it will be seen as equally pitiable and crazy. Their reliance
> >on the portrait will marginalize them in terms of the action of the story,
> >I think.
> >This is necessary because if the main reason to get rid of Dumbledore was to
> >force Harry to go on alone, then it will also be necessary to marginalize the
> >OOTP too, and it is economical to do it this way.
>
> Somehow I can't see them carrying Dumbledore's portrait into battle so they
> can take orders.
>
> > Also, it might help JKR to underscore the idea that there is an inherent
> >wrongness with ghosts and portraits as vestiges of the living.
>
> Why do you think she is trying to do that?
>
> I don't recall any "inherent wrongness" being described with respect to
> ghosts or portraits, nor with respect to the echoes from Voldemort's wand.

1) Nick describes himself that way at the end of OotP, as being
neither here nor there, and a victim of his own cowardice in remaining,
while Sirius had moved on. He did not use "inherently wrong" to
describe his choice or his existence, but it was plainly enough his
attitude.

2) DD repeatedly addresses this subject. Tom's fear of death is his
great weakness. The evil of Horcruxes. To a well ordered mind, death
is not to be feared. Etc.

3) DD's lecture to Harry on his gazing at his Mirror Family in Book
One. How he shouldn't live in a fantasy of the past.

> The ghosts in the opening scene when the kids arrive at Hogwarts seemed happy
> enough. The ghosts at at Sir Nick's party as being stuck in their old habits
> - jealousy, gluttony, pride, etc - and not enjoying their existence that much
> at that time, but at other times they seem happy enough.

Not much they can do by complaining, is there? And you cannot say that
Binns and Myrtle aren't pretty darn "sad", happy or not. Nick seemed
perfectly fine until Harry actually asked him about it, and then it all
came out. Nick's sadness and sense of futility with his unlife. He
doesn't think about it or mope about it because there is no point. But
he knows he made the wrong choice.

> What JKR has said in interviews seems to indicate that she doesn't consider
> the portraits to be the person at all, just a kind of computer Saved-Game
> of the personality. The echoes in Voldemort's wand (although they certainly
> behaved like Beings) she has also said were not the soul, just echoes of the
> personality and therefore like the portraits. In the context of the story,
> neither the portraits nor the echoes were described as having any inherent
> wrongness.

The wrongness wouldn't be in the portraits themselves. Rather, it
would be in the overreliance on them by the living. The dependance
that Harry nearly fell into in Book One with the mirror.
Re: New leader of OOP [message #269724 ] Fr, 19 Mai 2006 09:57
Toon  
On Thu, 18 May 2006 18:41:25 +0800, "Deevo"
<mckenzie [at] NOSPAMmidwest.com.au> wrote:

>Yes, and that makes a problem for the order, no one in particular seemed to
>be Dumbledore's second.

Voldemort's the same way. There's no number 2. He dies, and nobody
tries to take over and continue on with his vision. Lucius and
everyone claim curses, a few proudly admit their loyalty. Yes
Bellatrix and her gang attacked the Longbottoms for info, but that was
to find their leader, not to carry on. Seems without their Almighty
Leader, the DE's fell apart quicker than a house of cards in a
hurricane.

McG might take over since she was the school's second in command.
Thta's the closest to a true second in command.
Re: New leader of OOP [message #269725 ] Fr, 19 Mai 2006 09:59
Toon  
On 18 May 2006 05:08:14 -0700, "Aselloth" <aselloth [at] gmail.com> wrote:

>"However - the fact that Fawkes "went away" the same day DD did could
>imply that Fawkes is following DD somewhere."
>
>As much as I would like to think that (DD is to my opinion probably the
>most likeable person in the whole series) I don't think it's true.
>Would DD's portrait appear in the headmaster's room if he was still
>alive?
>Furthermore, as I have already mentioned, JKR said in one of her
>interviews that DD really IS dead and is not coming back.
>Alas. But it seems reasonable from the writers point of view.

Fawked seems to have stayed with DD not been his pet. He therefore
headed wherever when his friend was gone. Sure, he might have gone to
a mourning place and will return to be with Harry, the most loyalest
DD man he knows, but there's no more proof for it then against it. We
don't know what a lamenting Phoenix does.
Re: New leader of OOP [message #269726 ] Fr, 19 Mai 2006 10:00
Toon  
On Thu, 18 May 2006 12:20:17 -0400, John Duncan Yoyo
<john-duncan-yoyo [at] cox.net> wrote:

>Not particularly proof. Well newspaper pictures appear while people
>are still alive. It may still be part of a deep cover and faked
>death. It would have been done if he had died so they would have done
>it.

It'd help if we knew if the subject must be dead before the painting
can come alive.
Re: New leader of OOP [message #269742 ] Fr, 19 Mai 2006 14:04
Aselloth  
Toon wrote:
"Fawked seems to have stayed with DD not been his pet. He therefore
headed wherever when his friend was gone. Sure, he might have gone to
a mourning place and will return to be with Harry, the most loyalest
DD man he knows, but there's no more proof for it then against it. We
don't know what a lamenting Phoenix does."

I agree.
But still, it was a lamenting Phoenix. Probably Harry'll have to manage
with him instead of DD - just like in book 2.

<john-duncan-y... [at] cox.net> wrote:
>Not particularly proof. Well newspaper pictures appear while people
>are still alive. It may still be part of a deep cover and faked
>death. It would have been done if he had died so they would have done
>it.

True.
But still I'm certain that DD won't be back (and believe me, I don't
like it at all).
I guess we'll have to wait for the book 7 and see what happens :)
Re: New leader of OOP [message #269825 ] Sa, 20 Mai 2006 19:11
Chip Stobb  
On Sun, 14 May 2006 22:17:51 GMT, Thom Madura
<Thom-Madura [at] Worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>Okay - lets move on to another topic.
>
>DD is dead
>
>WHo will be the new leader of the OOP?

McGonagle will take over Hogwarts, as she did at the end of Book 6.

The "Order of the Phoenix" will either: A) select a new leader by
popular vote; or B) someone will rise to the forefront and will be
unofficially acknowledged as the leader; or C) cease to exist as a
cohesive unit.

Harry will:
A) visit Godric's Hollow, and visit his parents' graves, as well as
the location of their house;
B) with the assistance of Ron, Hermione, Dobby & Kreacher...
locate and destroy the remaining horcruxes;
C) return to Hogwarts to finish his magical education (as far as the
instructors there can help)
- and encounter Voldemort there at the Castle;

Harry will be severely wounded in the final battle, but will persevere
and survive to live on as the greatest auror the magical world has
ever known.

Chip

"Ignorance is bliss, and we're in Nirvana." - C. Stobb
Re: New leader of OOP [message #270209 ] So, 28 Mai 2006 07:46
kilroy  
"John Duncan Yoyo" <john-duncan-yoyo [at] cox.net> wrote in message
news:ih7p625frenr6kn6oubd4g66pqqt7pnrkq [at] 4ax.com...
> On 18 May 2006 05:08:14 -0700, "Aselloth" <aselloth [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>"However - the fact that Fawkes "went away" the same day DD did could
>>imply that Fawkes is following DD somewhere."
>>
>>As much as I would like to think that (DD is to my opinion probably the
>>most likeable person in the whole series) I don't think it's true.
>>Would DD's portrait appear in the headmaster's room if he was still
>>alive?
>
> Not particularly proof. Well newspaper pictures appear while people
> are still alive. It may still be part of a deep cover and faked
> death. It would have been done if he had died so they would have done
> it.
>
>>Furthermore, as I have already mentioned, JKR said in one of her
>>interviews that DD really IS dead and is not coming back.
>>Alas. But it seems reasonable from the writers point of view.
>
> Like she is a reliable source. ;-)
>
Dumbledore is dead, but this does not mean we won't see any more of him. I
think he will return in some form or fashion, but he isn't hiding in some
kind of deep cover thing. It would serve little purpose for him to hide.
Perhaps a ghost? Dumbledore is the kind of guy who would give up the great
beyond because something very important is left to be done here in the
living world. In any case, I don't know how we will see him, but don't
expect him to pop up and be alive.
--
Kilroy was here.
"Always forgive your enemies. Nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde
Re: New leader of OOP [message #270228 ] So, 28 Mai 2006 16:16
motormaroon  
Toon wrote:
> On Thu, 18 May 2006 18:41:25 +0800, "Deevo"
> <mckenzie [at] NOSPAMmidwest.com.au> wrote:
>
> >Yes, and that makes a problem for the order, no one in particular seemed to
> >be Dumbledore's second.
>
> Voldemort's the same way. There's no number 2. He dies, and nobody
> tries to take over and continue on with his vision. Lucius and
> everyone claim curses, a few proudly admit their loyalty. Yes
> Bellatrix and her gang attacked the Longbottoms for info, but that was
> to find their leader, not to carry on. Seems without their Almighty
> Leader, the DE's fell apart quicker than a house of cards in a
> hurricane.
>
> McG might take over since she was the school's second in command.
> Thta's the closest to a true second in command.

I believe Rowling mentioned that McGonagal will the new leader of the
Order of the Phoenix.

I wonder how old the OOTP is? Was it started as a responce to LV? Or is
it a more ancient organisation dating back to the founders days. One
wonders.
Re: New leader of OOP [message #270295 ] Mo, 29 Mai 2006 16:20
Mark Evans  
Toon <toon [at] toon.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 18 May 2006 18:41:25 +0800, "Deevo"
> <mckenzie [at] NOSPAMmidwest.com.au> wrote:
>
>>Yes, and that makes a problem for the order, no one in particular seemed to
>>be Dumbledore's second.
>
> Voldemort's the same way. There's no number 2. He dies, and nobody
> tries to take over and continue on with his vision. Lucius and
> everyone claim curses, a few proudly admit their loyalty. Yes
> Bellatrix and her gang attacked the Longbottoms for info, but that was
> to find their leader, not to carry on. Seems without their Almighty
> Leader, the DE's fell apart quicker than a house of cards in a
> hurricane.

Tom wouldn't want things any other way. Someone who could take over leading
the Death Eaters is a potential threat to him.
Re: New leader of OOP [message #270313 ] Mo, 29 Mai 2006 22:16
Thomas Madura  
Mark Evans wrote:

> Toon <toon [at] toon.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 18 May 2006 18:41:25 +0800, "Deevo"
>><mckenzie [at] NOSPAMmidwest.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Yes, and that makes a problem for the order, no one in particular seemed to
>>>be Dumbledore's second.
>>
>>Voldemort's the same way. There's no number 2. He dies, and nobody
>>tries to take over and continue on with his vision. Lucius and
>>everyone claim curses, a few proudly admit their loyalty. Yes
>>Bellatrix and her gang attacked the Longbottoms for info, but that was
>>to find their leader, not to carry on. Seems without their Almighty
>>Leader, the DE's fell apart quicker than a house of cards in a
>>hurricane.
>
>
> Tom wouldn't want things any other way. Someone who could take over leading
> the Death Eaters is a potential threat to him.


Well - among other things - there are NO more heirs to Slytherin
Re: New leader of OOP [message #270317 ] Mo, 29 Mai 2006 23:42
Alex Clark  
Thom Madura wrote:
> However - we already know the name of the next big evil - Umbridge.

In her dreams. She knows how to be a big bad bully when she has someone
higher up giving her the power and authority that she craves, but if
she had to run her very own conspiracy by her own charisma and cunning,
she wouldn't last very long.

--
Alex Clark

I am Lord Overt Mold
Vorheriges Thema:Will Goblet ever be released on VHS? (USA/NTSC format)
Nächstes Thema:Hermione a Bad Influence?
Gehe zu:
  


aktuelle Zeit: Sa Mai 26 05:57:22 CEST 2012

Insgesamt benötigte Zeit, um die Seite zu erzeugen: 0,14351 Sekunden
.:: Startseite - Hinweise - Impressum ::.

Powered