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Science Fiction » alt.fan.starwars » Not really a new topic - senators response to Palpatine's proclamation
Not really a new topic - senators response to Palpatine's proclamation [message #263333] So, 14 Mai 2006 21:18
biowarble  
I'm the one who asked Karrde about whether the group was truthfully
moderated, and whether threads were really "closed" after 30 days.
Guess its just a weird thing in Google. Anyway, I had intended to get
back to a particular thread but just didn't get around to it. So here
is the continuation:


Shkope4 wrote:

>they maybe assumed that he would give back all power when war ends

Why would they assume that? Making himself emperor certainly suggests
he's taking - and keeping - more power than before


Anybody wrote:

>It was far too late to do anything about it by then even if they wanted
>to. Palpatine was in charge and had been for years already, he
>commanded the army.

Just becasue it's supposedly "too late" does not mean they have to be
HAPPY about his making himself emperor.


Solon wrote:

>They went along, because they (at the time) believed Palpy's story about
>the Jedi trying to overthrow the Republic.

Actually was going to respond to this one... and now that I'm looking
at it, I can't think of anything to say :-)


Nick Soapdish, Jr. wrote:

>This was one of the political themes of the movies. Someone once said
>"those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither". This
>scene was an example of people doing just that, out of fear. They
>decided that the imposition of an Empire would keep them safe and
>"restore glory". It's clearly meant to echo 1930s Germany's
>relinquishment of democracy in exchange for a return to the days of
>prominent power, and security from "foreign influence". We all know
>how that turned out..... And to a lesser extent, it (intentionally or
>unintentionally) echoes certain current political developments (in
>spite of Lucas' denials).
>This was, from what I can tell, one of the times when Lucas' original,
>1970s-era intentions did manage to survive and make it to the prequels.
> The prologue of the original Star Wars novelisation pretty much sets
>forth the overarching storyline of the prequel politics.
>Wikipedia has a number of interesting entries you may want to check
>out.

The environment in pre-WWII Germany was far different from than of the
environmet in the Galacatic Senate in RotS. Many Germans were unhappy
with the way they were treated after losing so much in the loss in WWI,
and this fueled Hitler's rise. The Galactic Senate had no such reason
for discontent.

(actual email address is wjboelema [at] yahoo.com)
Re: Not really a new topic - senators response to Palpatine's proclamation [message #263334 ] So, 14 Mai 2006 22:50
Anybody  
In article <1147634338.762912.48160 [at] g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"biowarble [at] hotmail.com" <biowarble [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
> Anybody wrote:
>
> >It was far too late to do anything about it by then even if they wanted
> >to. Palpatine was in charge and had been for years already, he
> >commanded the army.
>
> Just becasue it's supposedly "too late" does not mean they have to be
> HAPPY about his making himself emperor.

I never said they were "happy" about it, just that there was nothing
they could do by that stage. Some obviously weren't happy and formed
the Rebellion.
Re: Not really a new topic - senators response to Palpatine's proclamation [message #263337 ] Mo, 15 Mai 2006 00:47
DKM  
<biowarble [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1147634338.762912.48160 [at] g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I'm the one who asked Karrde about whether the group was truthfully
> moderated, and whether threads were really "closed" after 30 days.
> Guess its just a weird thing in Google. Anyway, I had intended to get
> back to a particular thread but just didn't get around to it. So here
> is the continuation:
>
>
> Shkope4 wrote:
>
>>they maybe assumed that he would give back all power when war ends
>
> Why would they assume that? Making himself emperor certainly suggests
> he's taking - and keeping - more power than before
>
>
> Anybody wrote:
>
>>It was far too late to do anything about it by then even if they wanted
>>to. Palpatine was in charge and had been for years already, he
>>commanded the army.
>
> Just becasue it's supposedly "too late" does not mean they have to be
> HAPPY about his making himself emperor.
>
>
> Solon wrote:
>
>>They went along, because they (at the time) believed Palpy's story about
>>the Jedi trying to overthrow the Republic.
>
> Actually was going to respond to this one... and now that I'm looking
> at it, I can't think of anything to say :-)
>
>
> Nick Soapdish, Jr. wrote:
>
>>This was one of the political themes of the movies. Someone once said
>>"those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither". This
>>scene was an example of people doing just that, out of fear. They
>>decided that the imposition of an Empire would keep them safe and
>>"restore glory". It's clearly meant to echo 1930s Germany's
>>relinquishment of democracy in exchange for a return to the days of
>>prominent power, and security from "foreign influence". We all know
>>how that turned out..... And to a lesser extent, it (intentionally or
>>unintentionally) echoes certain current political developments (in
>>spite of Lucas' denials).
>>This was, from what I can tell, one of the times when Lucas' original,
>>1970s-era intentions did manage to survive and make it to the prequels.
>> The prologue of the original Star Wars novelisation pretty much sets
>>forth the overarching storyline of the prequel politics.
>>Wikipedia has a number of interesting entries you may want to check
>>out.
>
> The environment in pre-WWII Germany was far different from than of the
> environmet in the Galacatic Senate in RotS. Many Germans were unhappy
> with the way they were treated after losing so much in the loss in WWI,
> and this fueled Hitler's rise. The Galactic Senate had no such reason
> for discontent.

Not that type of discontent, but what they did have was the failure of the
Republic. It had become corrupt and its breakdown had lead to devastating
civil war. Now as the war was coming to an end, the "keepers of peace" had
attempted a coup d'état against the government. As Palpatine had been
granted more and more power he was able to bring about victory and
reestablish order. He was promising "a safe and secure society".

DKM
Re: Not really a new topic - senators response to Palpatine's proclamation [message #263338 ] Mo, 15 Mai 2006 01:36
biowarble  
Anybody wrote:
> In article <1147634338.762912.48160 [at] g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> "biowarble [at] hotmail.com" <biowarble [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Anybody wrote:
> >
> > >It was far too late to do anything about it by then even if they wanted
> > >to. Palpatine was in charge and had been for years already, he
> > >commanded the army.
> >
> > Just becasue it's supposedly "too late" does not mean they have to be
> > HAPPY about his making himself emperor.
>
> I never said they were "happy" about it, just that there was nothing
> they could do by that stage. Some obviously weren't happy and formed
> the Rebellion.

Didn't mean to say that you said they were happy, but in my original
post I was surprised that so many applauded the forming of the empire.
Re: Not really a new topic - senators response to Palpatine's proclamation [message #263342 ] Mo, 15 Mai 2006 06:02
Karrde  
<biowarble [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1147634338.762912.48160 [at] g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I'm the one who asked Karrde about whether the group was truthfully
> moderated, and whether threads were really "closed" after 30 days.
> Guess its just a weird thing in Google. Anyway, I had intended to get
> back to a particular thread but just didn't get around to it. So here
> is the continuation:

Yeah, weird thing about Google. I never realized it wouldn't let you
respond after 30 days until your question came up.

> Shkope4 wrote:
>
>>they maybe assumed that he would give back all power when war ends
>
> Why would they assume that? Making himself emperor certainly suggests
> he's taking - and keeping - more power than before

They knew he was taking power, but they had no choice but to go along. Even
Bail Organa and Mon Mothma voted to make him Emperor. They saw what was
being done to the Senators that spoke out against Palpatine and decided to
play the game while they were busy building a secret resistance to the
Empire. That's just one of the great little additions to the story when you
read the novelization. :-)

--
--K
http://afssmugglersalliance.tripod.com/afs_faq.html

Current Action Figure Count: 1346



Inviato da X-Privat.Org - Registrazione gratuita http://www.x-privat.org/join.php
Re: Not really a new topic - senators response to Palpatine's proclamation [message #263344 ] Mo, 15 Mai 2006 08:26
Anybody  
In article <1147649774.667643.164370 [at] v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>,
"biowarble [at] hotmail.com" <biowarble [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

> Anybody wrote:
> > In article <1147634338.762912.48160 [at] g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> > "biowarble [at] hotmail.com" <biowarble [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Anybody wrote:
> > >
> > > >It was far too late to do anything about it by then even if they wanted
> > > >to. Palpatine was in charge and had been for years already, he
> > > >commanded the army.
> > >
> > > Just becasue it's supposedly "too late" does not mean they have to be
> > > HAPPY about his making himself emperor.
> >
> > I never said they were "happy" about it, just that there was nothing
> > they could do by that stage. Some obviously weren't happy and formed
> > the Rebellion.
>
> Didn't mean to say that you said they were happy, but in my original
> post I was surprised that so many applauded the forming of the empire.

Palpatine simply fooled most of them - they thought he'd ended the
Clone Wars, they thought he'd revealed the Jedi to be corrupt enemies,
etc. Later many would realise their mistake, but there's little they
could do since Palpatine was in charge of the army.
Re: Not really a new topic - senators response to Palpatine's proclamation [message #267422 ] Mi, 17 Mai 2006 13:11
Andrew Murray  
"Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
news:150520060850285599%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> In article <1147634338.762912.48160 [at] g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> "biowarble [at] hotmail.com" <biowarble [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Anybody wrote:
>>
>> >It was far too late to do anything about it by then even if they wanted
>> >to. Palpatine was in charge and had been for years already, he
>> >commanded the army.
>>
>> Just becasue it's supposedly "too late" does not mean they have to be
>> HAPPY about his making himself emperor.
>
> I never said they were "happy" about it, just that there was nothing
> they could do by that stage. Some obviously weren't happy and formed
> the Rebellion.

Starting with Bail Organa, Padme and Mon Mothma (Mon Mothma is mentioned in
the Episode III novelisation in the bit where Padme and Bail Organa have
that meeting to discuss a way of forming a secret Alliance with any other
systems that are not in agreement with palpatine's planned regime.
Re: Not really a new topic - senators response to Palpatine's proclamation [message #268071 ] Do, 18 Mai 2006 08:29
Anybody  
In article
<446b04dc$0$26935$5a62ac22 [at] per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>, "Andrew
Murray" <admurray [at] iinet.net.au> wrote:

> "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
> news:150520060850285599%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> > In article <1147634338.762912.48160 [at] g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> > "biowarble [at] hotmail.com" <biowarble [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Anybody wrote:
> >>
> >> >It was far too late to do anything about it by then even if they wanted
> >> >to. Palpatine was in charge and had been for years already, he
> >> >commanded the army.
> >>
> >> Just becasue it's supposedly "too late" does not mean they have to be
> >> HAPPY about his making himself emperor.
> >
> > I never said they were "happy" about it, just that there was nothing
> > they could do by that stage. Some obviously weren't happy and formed
> > the Rebellion.
>
> Starting with Bail Organa, Padme and Mon Mothma (Mon Mothma is mentioned in
> the Episode III novelisation in the bit where Padme and Bail Organa have
> that meeting to discuss a way of forming a secret Alliance with any other
> systems that are not in agreement with palpatine's planned regime.

From memory Mon Mothma was on-screen in Episode III (but that could be
wrong and I'm remembering 'behind the scenes' images), she just didn't
have any lines.
Re: Not really a new topic - senators response to Palpatine's proclamation [message #268073 ] Do, 18 Mai 2006 08:50
Solon  
_Andrew Murray_ spoke thusly on 17/05/2006 7:11 AM:
> Starting with Bail Organa, Padme and Mon Mothma (Mon Mothma is mentioned in
> the Episode III novelisation in the bit where Padme and Bail Organa have
> that meeting to discuss a way of forming a secret Alliance with any other
> systems that are not in agreement with palpatine's planned regime.

IIRC, she's pretty prominent in the deleted scenes (on the DVD).
--
usenetsolon [at] gmail.com
Firefox 1.5 is out! <http://www.mozilla.com>
Re: Not really a new topic - senators response to Palpatine's proclamation [message #268084 ] Fr, 19 Mai 2006 03:23
DKM  
"Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
news:180520061829375641%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> In article
> <446b04dc$0$26935$5a62ac22 [at] per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>, "Andrew
> Murray" <admurray [at] iinet.net.au> wrote:
>
>> "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
>> news:150520060850285599%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
>> > In article <1147634338.762912.48160 [at] g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
>> > "biowarble [at] hotmail.com" <biowarble [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Anybody wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >It was far too late to do anything about it by then even if they
>> >> >wanted
>> >> >to. Palpatine was in charge and had been for years already, he
>> >> >commanded the army.
>> >>
>> >> Just becasue it's supposedly "too late" does not mean they have to be
>> >> HAPPY about his making himself emperor.
>> >
>> > I never said they were "happy" about it, just that there was nothing
>> > they could do by that stage. Some obviously weren't happy and formed
>> > the Rebellion.
>>
>> Starting with Bail Organa, Padme and Mon Mothma (Mon Mothma is mentioned
>> in
>> the Episode III novelisation in the bit where Padme and Bail Organa have
>> that meeting to discuss a way of forming a secret Alliance with any other
>> systems that are not in agreement with palpatine's planned regime.
>
> From memory Mon Mothma was on-screen in Episode III (but that could be
> wrong and I'm remembering 'behind the scenes' images), she just didn't
> have any lines.

She is with the delegation that welcomes Palpatine back.

DKM
Re: Not really a new topic - senators response to Palpatine's proclamation [message #268318 ] Sa, 27 Mai 2006 20:00
biowarble  
DKM wrote:
> <biowarble [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1147634338.762912.48160 [at] g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > I'm the one who asked Karrde about whether the group was truthfully
> > moderated, and whether threads were really "closed" after 30 days.
> > Guess its just a weird thing in Google. Anyway, I had intended to get
> > back to a particular thread but just didn't get around to it. So here
> > is the continuation:
> >
> >
> > Shkope4 wrote:
> >
> >>they maybe assumed that he would give back all power when war ends
> >
> > Why would they assume that? Making himself emperor certainly suggests
> > he's taking - and keeping - more power than before
> >
> >
> > Anybody wrote:
> >
> >>It was far too late to do anything about it by then even if they wanted
> >>to. Palpatine was in charge and had been for years already, he
> >>commanded the army.
> >
> > Just becasue it's supposedly "too late" does not mean they have to be
> > HAPPY about his making himself emperor.
> >
> >
> > Solon wrote:
> >
> >>They went along, because they (at the time) believed Palpy's story about
> >>the Jedi trying to overthrow the Republic.
> >
> > Actually was going to respond to this one... and now that I'm looking
> > at it, I can't think of anything to say :-)
> >
> >
> > Nick Soapdish, Jr. wrote:
> >
> >>This was one of the political themes of the movies. Someone once said
> >>"those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither". This
> >>scene was an example of people doing just that, out of fear. They
> >>decided that the imposition of an Empire would keep them safe and
> >>"restore glory". It's clearly meant to echo 1930s Germany's
> >>relinquishment of democracy in exchange for a return to the days of
> >>prominent power, and security from "foreign influence". We all know
> >>how that turned out..... And to a lesser extent, it (intentionally or
> >>unintentionally) echoes certain current political developments (in
> >>spite of Lucas' denials).
> >>This was, from what I can tell, one of the times when Lucas' original,
> >>1970s-era intentions did manage to survive and make it to the prequels.
> >> The prologue of the original Star Wars novelisation pretty much sets
> >>forth the overarching storyline of the prequel politics.
> >>Wikipedia has a number of interesting entries you may want to check
> >>out.
> >
> > The environment in pre-WWII Germany was far different from than of the
> > environmet in the Galacatic Senate in RotS. Many Germans were unhappy
> > with the way they were treated after losing so much in the loss in WWI,
> > and this fueled Hitler's rise. The Galactic Senate had no such reason
> > for discontent.
>
> Not that type of discontent, but what they did have was the failure of the
> Republic. It had become corrupt and its breakdown had lead to devastating
> civil war. Now as the war was coming to an end, the "keepers of peace" h=
ad
> attempted a coup d'=E9tat against the government. As Palpatine had been
> granted more and more power he was able to bring about victory and
> reestablish order. He was promising "a safe and secure society".
>=20
I guess you and I just have to agree to disagree :-)
Vorheriges Thema:A question about human aging in the GFFA...
Nächstes Thema:Re: STAR TREk 40th anniversary auction at Christie's
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