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Fantasy » alt.fan.harry-potter » More Plothole Complaints
More Plothole Complaints [message #253416] Do, 27 April 2006 14:17
DM  
The books are filled with plotholes. Hindsight is 20/10.

How about the fact that, while Draco was busy fixing the cabinets,
Voldemort didn't think to have a Potions Master mix up some Felix
Felicis for the Death Eaters invading the castle? (Hmmm, maybe they did.
Maybe that's why they succeeded in getting to Dumbledore!)

Or the fact no one has offered to give Harry a vial to keep with him in
case he meets Voldemort? Or why didn't Dumbledore (or anyone else for
that matter) ever teach Harry to Apparate? That should have been the
first thing to teach him once he demonstrated he was capable of learning
advanced magic. Voldemort: "At last, Potter! I have you..." <crack!>
"WTF? Where'd he go?"

And what about a Time-turner for Harry? I know the time-turners are
generally not to be used. But if Hermione could get permission to use
one for extra classes, how hard could it be to get Harry permission to
use one to battle Voldemort when the fate of wizard might depend on
Harry's success?

And why didn't Sirius ever try to contact Harry or Dumbledore for an
entire YEAR after escaping Azkaban? Maybe no one would have believed
him, but a quick "I was framed!" note might have cast some doubts. And
don't give me that insanity excuse. He was clear minded enough to
recognize Pettigrew in his animagus form, AND follow him to Hogwarts,
AND take the time to watch Harry play Quidditch.

--
DM
---

,_,
(O,O)
( )
-"-"-

dm1498 (at) gmail.com
---
"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
- Lord Voldemort

HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka
Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253418 ] Do, 27 April 2006 14:29
Hinkypunk  
There are some simple answers to a few of your questions.

I don't think that Felix Felicis would work against such dark magic
as Voldemorts.

Harry was to young to be allowed to learn to apparate the MOM can't
start bending rules.

I don't think a time turner would work either, especially seen as how
he can't be seen by himself whilst back in time... It's too risky.

There was no point Sirus contacting anyone until he had proof about
Peter Pettigrew, hence going to Hogwarts.



DM wrote:
> The books are filled with plotholes. Hindsight is 20/10.
>
> How about the fact that, while Draco was busy fixing the cabinets,
> Voldemort didn't think to have a Potions Master mix up some Felix
> Felicis for the Death Eaters invading the castle? (Hmmm, maybe they did.
> Maybe that's why they succeeded in getting to Dumbledore!)
>
> Or the fact no one has offered to give Harry a vial to keep with him in
> case he meets Voldemort? Or why didn't Dumbledore (or anyone else for
> that matter) ever teach Harry to Apparate? That should have been the
> first thing to teach him once he demonstrated he was capable of learning
> advanced magic. Voldemort: "At last, Potter! I have you..." <crack!>
> "WTF? Where'd he go?"
>
> And what about a Time-turner for Harry? I know the time-turners are
> generally not to be used. But if Hermione could get permission to use
> one for extra classes, how hard could it be to get Harry permission to
> use one to battle Voldemort when the fate of wizard might depend on
> Harry's success?
>
> And why didn't Sirius ever try to contact Harry or Dumbledore for an
> entire YEAR after escaping Azkaban? Maybe no one would have believed
> him, but a quick "I was framed!" note might have cast some doubts. And
> don't give me that insanity excuse. He was clear minded enough to
> recognize Pettigrew in his animagus form, AND follow him to Hogwarts,
> AND take the time to watch Harry play Quidditch.
>
> --
> DM
> ---
>
> ,_,
> (O,O)
> ( )
> -"-"-
>
> dm1498 (at) gmail.com
> ---
> "RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
> "I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
> - Lord Voldemort
>
> HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
> CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
> HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka
Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253419 ] Do, 27 April 2006 14:29
Hinkypunk  
There are some simple answers to a few of your questions.

I don't think that Felix Felicis would work against such dark magic
as Voldemorts.

Harry was to young to be allowed to learn to apparate the MOM can't
start bending rules.

I don't think a time turner would work either, especially seen as how
he can't be seen by himself whilst back in time... It's too risky.

There was no point Sirus contacting anyone until he had proof about
Peter Pettigrew, hence going to Hogwarts.



DM wrote:
> The books are filled with plotholes. Hindsight is 20/10.
>
> How about the fact that, while Draco was busy fixing the cabinets,
> Voldemort didn't think to have a Potions Master mix up some Felix
> Felicis for the Death Eaters invading the castle? (Hmmm, maybe they did.
> Maybe that's why they succeeded in getting to Dumbledore!)
>
> Or the fact no one has offered to give Harry a vial to keep with him in
> case he meets Voldemort? Or why didn't Dumbledore (or anyone else for
> that matter) ever teach Harry to Apparate? That should have been the
> first thing to teach him once he demonstrated he was capable of learning
> advanced magic. Voldemort: "At last, Potter! I have you..." <crack!>
> "WTF? Where'd he go?"
>
> And what about a Time-turner for Harry? I know the time-turners are
> generally not to be used. But if Hermione could get permission to use
> one for extra classes, how hard could it be to get Harry permission to
> use one to battle Voldemort when the fate of wizard might depend on
> Harry's success?
>
> And why didn't Sirius ever try to contact Harry or Dumbledore for an
> entire YEAR after escaping Azkaban? Maybe no one would have believed
> him, but a quick "I was framed!" note might have cast some doubts. And
> don't give me that insanity excuse. He was clear minded enough to
> recognize Pettigrew in his animagus form, AND follow him to Hogwarts,
> AND take the time to watch Harry play Quidditch.
>
> --
> DM
> ---
>
> ,_,
> (O,O)
> ( )
> -"-"-
>
> dm1498 (at) gmail.com
> ---
> "RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
> "I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
> - Lord Voldemort
>
> HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
> CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
> HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka
Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253432 ] Do, 27 April 2006 16:27
Philip Lewis  
DM <dm1498 [at] {REMOVE}gmail.com> writes:
>And what about a Time-turner for Harry? I know the time-turners are
heh: he could surround Voldemort and blast him from all sides at
once. :)

--
May no harm befall you,
flip
Ich habe keine Ahnung was das bedeutet, oder vielleicht doch?
In my email replace SeeEmmYou.EeeDeeYou with CMU.EDU
Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253443 ] Do, 27 April 2006 18:43
Helena Bowles  
"Hinkypunk" <leanne_mallory [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1146140966.073018.167370 [at] v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> There are some simple answers to a few of your questions.
>
> I don't think that Felix Felicis would work against such dark magic
> as Voldemorts.

And if everyone uses Felix it ceases to be an advantage to anyone.
>
> Harry was to young to be allowed to learn to apparate the MOM can't
> start bending rules.

I'm trying to imagine a a situation where an underage Muggle would be
allowed to obtain a driving license...
>
> I don't think a time turner would work either, especially seen as how
> he can't be seen by himself whilst back in time... It's too risky

Plus they were all destroyed at the end of OOTP.
>
> There was no point Sirus contacting anyone until he had proof about
> Peter Pettigrew, hence going to Hogwarts.

Yeah, mass murderer breaks out of Wormwood Scrubs and sends note to old
Headmaster: "I was framed". Going to cut a lot of ice, that will.
Helena
>
>
>
> DM wrote:
>> The books are filled with plotholes. Hindsight is 20/10.
>>
>> How about the fact that, while Draco was busy fixing the cabinets,
>> Voldemort didn't think to have a Potions Master mix up some Felix
>> Felicis for the Death Eaters invading the castle? (Hmmm, maybe they did.
>> Maybe that's why they succeeded in getting to Dumbledore!)
>>
>> Or the fact no one has offered to give Harry a vial to keep with him in
>> case he meets Voldemort? Or why didn't Dumbledore (or anyone else for
>> that matter) ever teach Harry to Apparate? That should have been the
>> first thing to teach him once he demonstrated he was capable of learning
>> advanced magic. Voldemort: "At last, Potter! I have you..." <crack!>
>> "WTF? Where'd he go?"
>>
>> And what about a Time-turner for Harry? I know the time-turners are
>> generally not to be used. But if Hermione could get permission to use
>> one for extra classes, how hard could it be to get Harry permission to
>> use one to battle Voldemort when the fate of wizard might depend on
>> Harry's success?
>>
>> And why didn't Sirius ever try to contact Harry or Dumbledore for an
>> entire YEAR after escaping Azkaban? Maybe no one would have believed
>> him, but a quick "I was framed!" note might have cast some doubts. And
>> don't give me that insanity excuse. He was clear minded enough to
>> recognize Pettigrew in his animagus form, AND follow him to Hogwarts,
>> AND take the time to watch Harry play Quidditch.
>>
>> --
>> DM
>> ---
>>
>> ,_,
>> (O,O)
>> ( )
>> -"-"-
>>
>> dm1498 (at) gmail.com
>> ---
>> "RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
>> "I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
>> - Lord Voldemort
>>
>> HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
>> CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
>> HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka
>
Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253449 ] Do, 27 April 2006 20:47
lesliemills2002  
DM wrote:
> The books are filled with plotholes. Hindsight is 20/10.

> How about the fact that, while Draco was busy fixing the cabinets,
> Voldemort didn't think to have a Potions Master mix up some Felix
> Felicis for the Death Eaters invading the castle? (Hmmm, maybe they did.
> Maybe that's why they succeeded in getting to Dumbledore!)

That is an interesting theory. Another would be that it would take a
lot of time, a lot of talent, and a lot of money if the needed
ingredients were rare. Also, as Slughorn himself stated, extended use
becomes self-defeating, which may be why he was willing to give the
potion as a prize.

> Or the fact no one has offered to give Harry a vial to keep with him in
> case he meets Voldemort?

Again, the potion does not guarantee invincibility, and it may
encourage Harry to use it whenever he faces a challenge, rather than
succeed or fail on his own merits.

> Or why didn't Dumbledore (or anyone else for
> that matter) ever teach Harry to Apparate?

Dumbledore seems to believe that Harry already has the "weapons" needed
to defeat Voldemort, and instead has concentrated on giving Harry all
the information he feels relevant to finding and destroying Voldemort's
horcruxes.

> That should have been the
> first thing to teach him once he demonstrated he was capable of learning
> advanced magic. Voldemort: "At last, Potter! I have you..." <crack!>
> "WTF? Where'd he go?"

Recall that Dumbledore trapped the Death Eaters at the Ministry of
Magic and also put a jinx on them that prevented them from
disapparating. Voldemort evidently is also adept (more adept?) at
using such a jinx, since he probably prevented the Potters from
disapparating from Godoric's Hollow.

> And what about a Time-turner for Harry? I know the time-turners are
> generally not to be used. But if Hermione could get permission to use
> one for extra classes, how hard could it be to get Harry permission to
> use one to battle Voldemort when the fate of wizard might depend on
> Harry's success?

The Time-turners were destroyed in the battle at the Ministry of Magic.
Also, creating or repairing another one to try to "reinvent" past
battles goes beyond risky. Hermionie could use it on the rather valid
probability she was going to be in two distinct places at once, and
thus unable to meet herself. During a battle, knowing who was where
during when is highly difficult (it is hard enough discovering what
happened).

> And why didn't Sirius ever try to contact Harry or Dumbledore for an
> entire YEAR after escaping Azkaban?

(rest of post deleted)

1) Sirius didn't wait a year before coming into contact with Harry.

2) When Sirius escaped, he had two immediate concerns (a) make sure
Harry is safe, and (b) track down and kill Wormtail. Sirius couldn't
appeal to family, since he knew they would not support him, and the
Ministry was determined to imprison him again without trial, if not
worse. Dumbledore may have believed Sirius, but would not have
permitted Sirius to kill Peter, which was Peter's main motivation for
escaping in the first place. Consequently, Sirius probably thought his
best course of action was to kill Peter, and clear his name afterwards
by presenting Peter's corpse as proof of his own turn of events.
Felix Felices (was: More Plothole Complaints). [message #253462 ] Fr, 28 April 2006 03:23
nystulc  
DM wrote:
> The books are filled with plotholes. Hindsight is 20/10.
> How about the fact that, while Draco was busy fixing the cabinets,
> Voldemort didn't think to have a Potions Master mix up some Felix
> Felicis for the Death Eaters invading the castle? (Hmmm, maybe they did.
> Maybe that's why they succeeded in getting to Dumbledore!)

Huh? Can it be that you actually failed to notice that the supposed
benefit of Felix Felices is at least nine-tenths "placebo effect". Can
it really be that you failed to notice that this supposed miracle
potion worked just as well on Ron as it worked on Harry. Can it be
that you failed to notice that, in the opinion of Dumbledore, Harry
*always* had the ability to get the potion from Slughorn, just as in
Harry's opinion, Ron *always* had the ability to play well.

Felix Felices is not quite the miracle potion you think it is. In any
event, there are not many who know how to make it. Slughorn is
*extremely* skilled, and Voldemort does not have access to him.
Re: Felix Felices [message #253464 ] Fr, 28 April 2006 03:38
mystic  
nystulc [at] cs.com wrote:

> DM wrote:
>
>>The books are filled with plotholes. Hindsight is 20/10.
>>How about the fact that, while Draco was busy fixing the cabinets,
>>Voldemort didn't think to have a Potions Master mix up some Felix
>>Felicis for the Death Eaters invading the castle? (Hmmm, maybe they did.
>>Maybe that's why they succeeded in getting to Dumbledore!)
>
>
> Huh? Can it be that you actually failed to notice that the supposed
> benefit of Felix Felices is at least nine-tenths "placebo effect". Can
> it really be that you failed to notice that this supposed miracle
> potion worked just as well on Ron as it worked on Harry. Can it be
> that you failed to notice that, in the opinion of Dumbledore, Harry
> *always* had the ability to get the potion from Slughorn, just as in
> Harry's opinion, Ron *always* had the ability to play well.
>
> Felix Felices is not quite the miracle potion you think it is. In any
> event, there are not many who know how to make it. Slughorn is
> *extremely* skilled, and Voldemort does not have access to him.
>
Felix Felices = Confidence x (ingenuity + circumstance)
Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253469 ] Fr, 28 April 2006 06:33
drusilla  
Les escribió:
> DM wrote:
>> The books are filled with plotholes. Hindsight is 20/10.
>
>> How about the fact that, while Draco was busy fixing the cabinets,
>> Voldemort didn't think to have a Potions Master mix up some Felix
>> Felicis for the Death Eaters invading the castle? (Hmmm, maybe they did.
>> Maybe that's why they succeeded in getting to Dumbledore!)

I always thought Draco did: fixing the cabinets the same night that DD
and Harry decided to go for the Horcrux is too much a coincidence IMO.
Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253489 ] Fr, 28 April 2006 09:58
Toon  
On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:17:10 GMT, DM <dm1498 [at] {REMOVE}gmail.com> wrote:

>The books are filled with plotholes. Hindsight is 20/10.
>

I thought 20/20.

>
>Or the fact no one has offered to give Harry a vial to keep with him in
>case he meets Voldemort? Or why didn't Dumbledore (or anyone else for
>that matter) ever teach Harry to Apparate? That should have been the
>first thing to teach him once he demonstrated he was capable of learning
>advanced magic. Voldemort: "At last, Potter! I have you..." <crack!>
>"WTF? Where'd he go?"

There might be a reason there's an age limit on Apping. And I don't
think DD believes in luck.
>
>And what about a Time-turner for Harry? I know the time-turners are
>generally not to be used. But if Hermione could get permission to use
>one for extra classes, how hard could it be to get Harry permission to
>use one to battle Voldemort when the fate of wizard might depend on
>Harry's success?

You're not supposed to change history after the fact. if it happens,
you mustn't alter it. Thigns could turn out worse. Hermione got one
because she wasn't going to do what you propose. Hoever pointless and
stupid a reason extra classes is, there's minimal chance for rule
breaking.

>And why didn't Sirius ever try to contact Harry or Dumbledore for an
>entire YEAR after escaping Azkaban? Maybe no one would have believed
>him, but a quick "I was framed!" note might have cast some doubts. And
>don't give me that insanity excuse. He was clear minded enough to
>recognize Pettigrew in his animagus form, AND follow him to Hogwarts,
>AND take the time to watch Harry play Quidditch.

Yeah. Surely he figured to people knew he was there and after Harry.
Can't write on the walls, I don't want Potter, give me the Weasley
Rat. OK, Ron'll be upset, but no adult won't solve this problem
quickly if all it took was sacrificing one useless rat.
Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253490 ] Fr, 28 April 2006 09:59
Toon  
On 27 Apr 2006 05:29:26 -0700, "Hinkypunk"
<leanne_mallory [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

>I don't think a time turner would work either, especially seen as how
>he can't be seen by himself whilst back in time... It's too risky.

Except he did see himself, and everything turned out fine. Cours,e he
almost blew it thinking his dead dad was back, but still... Hmmm.
Kinda a toss up really.
Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253493 ] Fr, 28 April 2006 10:04
dicconf  
In article <4450f8e8$3_1 [at] mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>,
Helena Bowles <helena.bowles [at] tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
>"Hinkypunk" <leanne_mallory [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1146140966.073018.167370 [at] v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>> There are some simple answers to a few of your questions.
>>
>> I don't think that Felix Felicis would work against such dark magic
>> as Voldemorts.

It protected several kids from the DEs' dark magic.

>And if everyone uses Felix it ceases to be an advantage to anyone.

Good point.

>> Harry was to young to be allowed to learn to apparate the MOM can't
>> start bending rules.

They bend them all the time. Arthur fixed a ticket for his friend, who
lent him a tent in return. Fudge let Harry off any punishment for
blowing up his aunt; Harry even asked about that, since he'd been
hauled up before the full Wizengamot the previous year on a charge of
underage magic use. The MoM chauffeurs magically get the official cars
through heavy traffic.

=Tamar
Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253521 ] Fr, 28 April 2006 15:08
Philip Lewis  
Toon <toon [at] toon.com> writes:
>On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:17:10 GMT, DM <dm1498 [at] {REMOVE}gmail.com> wrote:
>>The books are filled with plotholes. Hindsight is 20/10.
>I thought 20/20.
20/10, means (if i understand it correctly) that you can see things at
20' at the same level other folks see at 10'. so that's "better than
perfect" vision.... or it was a mistype. ;)

--
May no harm befall you,
flip
Ich habe keine Ahnung was das bedeutet, oder vielleicht doch?
In my email replace SeeEmmYou.EeeDeeYou with CMU.EDU
Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253524 ] Fr, 28 April 2006 15:15
David Harmon  
On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:17:10 GMT in alt.fan.harry-potter, DM
<dm1498 [at] {REMOVE}gmail.com> wrote,
>How about the fact that, while Draco was busy fixing the cabinets,
>Voldemort didn't think to have a Potions Master mix up some Felix
>Felicis for the Death Eaters invading the castle?

Voldy can't give it to just anybody. Some Death Eater's "perfect
day" could easily be the day he killed the Dark Lord.
Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253526 ] Fr, 28 April 2006 16:17
Thomas Madura  
My biggest complaint is Magic itself.

If I can't make myself a Hot Fudge Sundae - what good is it?
Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253529 ] Fr, 28 April 2006 17:00
Kish  
Richard Eney wrote:
> Fudge let Harry off any punishment for
> blowing up his aunt; Harry even asked about that, since he'd been
> hauled up before the full Wizengamot the previous year on a charge of
> underage magic use.

He wasn't hauled up before the Wizengamot until OotP, and Fudge let him
off in PoA.
Re: Felix Felicis is a fraud! [message #253575 ] Sa, 29 April 2006 01:18
Blon Fel Fotch Passam  
nystulc [at] cs.com wrote:

> DM wrote:

>> The books are filled with plotholes. Hindsight is 20/10. How about the
>> fact that, while Draco was busy fixing the cabinets, Voldemort didn't
>> think to have a Potions Master mix up some Felix Felicis for the Death
>> Eaters invading the castle? (Hmmm, maybe they did. Maybe that's why
>> they succeeded in getting to Dumbledore!)

> Huh? Can it be that you actually failed to notice that the supposed
> benefit of Felix Felices is at least nine-tenths "placebo effect". Can
> it really be that you failed to notice that this supposed miracle potion
> worked just as well on Ron as it worked on Harry. Can it be that you
> failed to notice that, in the opinion of Dumbledore, Harry *always* had
> the ability to get the potion from Slughorn, just as in Harry's opinion,
> Ron *always* had the ability to play well.

> Felix Felices is not quite the miracle potion you think it is. In any
> event, there are not many who know how to make it. Slughorn is
> *extremely* skilled, and Voldemort does not have access to him.

Oh, Nystulc! I have been arguing this for ages, and few would agree
with me. What do you think the other one-tenth is? I believe that the
potion has an element of mind control, rarely exercised by Slughorn.


Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen

--
Free Margaret Blaine now!
Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253645 ] Sa, 29 April 2006 11:49
richard e white  
Richard Eney wrote:

> In article <4450f8e8$3_1 [at] mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>,
> Helena Bowles <helena.bowles [at] tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >"Hinkypunk" <leanne_mallory [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:1146140966.073018.167370 [at] v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> >> There are some simple answers to a few of your questions.
> >>
> >> I don't think that Felix Felicis would work against such dark magic
> >> as Voldemorts.
>
> It protected several kids from the DEs' dark magic.
>
> >And if everyone uses Felix it ceases to be an advantage to anyone.
>
> Good point.
>
> >> Harry was to young to be allowed to learn to apparate the MOM can't
> >> start bending rules.
>
> They bend them all the time. Arthur fixed a ticket for his friend, who
> lent him a tent in return. Fudge let Harry off any punishment for
> blowing up his aunt; Harry even asked about that, since he'd been
> hauled up before the full Wizengamot the previous year on a charge of
> underage magic use.

No he was halled up after the bit with the dementors. he only got a letter
of warning after the house elf bit. tho they did bend there own rules with
harry and his aunt getting blown up.


> The MoM chauffeurs magically get the official cars
> through heavy traffic.
>

I have been woundering about thoes cars for a while now. I think there is
either a way to get a permit or the mom waved there own rules to have them.
I am rather on the side that there is a way to get muggle things enchanted
but it may be set up so the wizard on the street thinks it is to much
trouble. And yes I know there is no prof as to wich is the true anser.


--
Richard The Blind Typer
Lets Hear It For Talking Computers.
Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253651 ] Sa, 29 April 2006 12:36
DM  
Philip Lewis wrote:
> Toon <toon [at] toon.com> writes:
>
>>On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:17:10 GMT, DM <dm1498 [at] {REMOVE}gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>The books are filled with plotholes. Hindsight is 20/10.
>>
>>I thought 20/20.
>
> 20/10, means (if i understand it correctly) that you can see things at
> 20' at the same level other folks see at 10'. so that's "better than
> perfect" vision.... or it was a mistype. ;)
>

I meant to expand the usual 20/20 to make it even more perfect.
Hindsight *is* better than normal vision, especially when you have the
opportunity to analysis every bit. :)

--
DM
---

,_,
(O,O)
( )
-"-"-

dm1498 (at) gmail.com
---
"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
- Lord Voldemort

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Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253654 ] Sa, 29 April 2006 13:37
DM  
Toon wrote:

>
> Yeah. Surely he figured to people knew he was there and after Harry.
> Can't write on the walls, I don't want Potter, give me the Weasley
> Rat. OK, Ron'll be upset, but no adult won't solve this problem
> quickly if all it took was sacrificing one useless rat.

Considering Lupin's greeting in the Shrieking Shack, I think Remus would
have heeded a note from Sirius - "Peter is Ron's rat! Get it away from
Harry." And Dumbledore, as trusting as he was, I'm sure would have given
benefit of doubt to Sirius had he received an "I'm innocent of murdering
the Potters. Give me a chance to explain..."

I mean, christ, if he can take the time to buy Harry a firebolt, he
could have bought a piece of parchment and a quill. Or better yet, he
was lurking in a bloody SCHOOL, there had to be quills and parchment all
over the place. How about taking a roll from a school bag instead of
shredding bed curtains?

--
DM
---

,_,
(O,O)
( )
-"-"-

dm1498 (at) gmail.com
---
"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
- Lord Voldemort

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Re: Felix Felices [message #253659 ] Sa, 29 April 2006 13:50
DM  
nystulc [at] cs.com wrote:

> DM wrote:
>
>>The books are filled with plotholes. Hindsight is 20/10.
>>How about the fact that, while Draco was busy fixing the cabinets,
>>Voldemort didn't think to have a Potions Master mix up some Felix
>>Felicis for the Death Eaters invading the castle? (Hmmm, maybe they did.
>>Maybe that's why they succeeded in getting to Dumbledore!)
>
>
> Huh? Can it be that you actually failed to notice that the supposed
> benefit of Felix Felices is at least nine-tenths "placebo effect". Can
> it really be that you failed to notice that this supposed miracle
> potion worked just as well on Ron as it worked on Harry. Can it be
> that you failed to notice that, in the opinion of Dumbledore, Harry
> *always* had the ability to get the potion from Slughorn, just as in
> Harry's opinion, Ron *always* had the ability to play well.
>
> Felix Felices is not quite the miracle potion you think it is. In any
> event, there are not many who know how to make it. Slughorn is
> *extremely* skilled, and Voldemort does not have access to him.
>

Apparently YOU failed to read chapter 22. Whether it is a miracle potion
(which I've never claimed) or a placebo, it does give the user an
extraordinary amount of confidence and foresight, both of which could
contribute to Harry's ultimate success. If I were on Harry's side, I'd
want him to have every advantage possible.

And certainly you cannot dumb enough believe Slughorn is the only
Potions Master capable enough to brew up some Felix Felicis? I'm just
assuming you aren't, but I've been wrong before. ;) You must have failed
to notice Slughorn stated the potion is 'tricky' to make, but nowhere
does he say he's the only one who can make it.

--
DM
---

,_,
(O,O)
( )
-"-"-

dm1498 (at) gmail.com
---
"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
- Lord Voldemort

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Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253662 ] Sa, 29 April 2006 14:02
DM  
Helena Bowles wrote:

> "Hinkypunk" <leanne_mallory [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1146140966.073018.167370 [at] v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>
>>There are some simple answers to a few of your questions.
>>
>>I don't think that Felix Felicis would work against such dark magic
>>as Voldemorts.
>
>
> And if everyone uses Felix it ceases to be an advantage to anyone.
>
>>Harry was to young to be allowed to learn to apparate the MOM can't
>>start bending rules.
>

Are you joking? The MoM (or more specifically, Dumbledore) wouldn't bend
the rules to save Harry and, ultimately, wizardry? Come on. As soon as
DD learned Harry could perform advanced magic, Apparating should have
been the next lesson, if for no other reason than to give Harry a chance
to escape harrowing situations.

Of course, that would mean Harry could have disapparated from the
graveyard as soon as Cedric was killed, thus altering the entire course
of the story. But I'm not discussing storylines, just common sense
actions that could have been taken to spare Harry some suffering.

>
> Yeah, mass murderer breaks out of Wormwood Scrubs and sends note to old
> Headmaster: "I was framed". Going to cut a lot of ice, that will.
> Helena
>

After the way Lupin greeted Sirius in the Shrieking Shack, you don't
think a note appealing his innocence would have been heeded? And
Dumbledore, as trusting as he was, you don't think he would have
listened, especially when Harry's life might be at stake? I give Lupin
and Dumbledore more credit than that.

--
DM
---

,_,
(O,O)
( )
-"-"-

dm1498 (at) gmail.com
---
"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
- Lord Voldemort

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Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253684 ] So, 30 April 2006 07:50
Dave Hardenbrook  
DM wrote:
> Or why didn't Dumbledore (or anyone else for
> that matter) ever teach Harry to Apparate? That should have been the
> first thing to teach him once he demonstrated he was capable of learning
> advanced magic. Voldemort: "At last, Potter! I have you..." <crack!>
> "WTF? Where'd he go?"

Come to think of it, at Godric's Hollow, why didn't Lily just grab Harry
and disapparate? (This is what James is telling her to do when he says,
"It's him -- Take Harry -- I'll head him off"??)

--
Dave
Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253686 ] So, 30 April 2006 09:49
Toon  
On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:37:38 GMT, DM <dm1498 [at] {REMOVE}gmail.com> wrote:

>Toon wrote:
>
>>
>> Yeah. Surely he figured to people knew he was there and after Harry.
>> Can't write on the walls, I don't want Potter, give me the Weasley
>> Rat. OK, Ron'll be upset, but no adult won't solve this problem
>> quickly if all it took was sacrificing one useless rat.
>
>Considering Lupin's greeting in the Shrieking Shack, I think Remus would
>have heeded a note from Sirius - "Peter is Ron's rat! Get it away from
>Harry." And Dumbledore, as trusting as he was, I'm sure would have given
>benefit of doubt to Sirius had he received an "I'm innocent of murdering
>the Potters. Give me a chance to explain..."
>
>I mean, christ, if he can take the time to buy Harry a firebolt, he
>could have bought a piece of parchment and a quill. Or better yet, he
>was lurking in a bloody SCHOOL, there had to be quills and parchment all
>over the place. How about taking a roll from a school bag instead of
>shredding bed curtains?

Ginny didn't need paper to write the COS message. Or why not send a
Howler to Harry? Plenty of ear witnesses in the Great Hall.
Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253687 ] So, 30 April 2006 09:52
Toon  
On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 12:02:58 GMT, DM <dm1498 [at] {REMOVE}gmail.com> wrote:

>Are you joking? The MoM (or more specifically, Dumbledore) wouldn't bend
>the rules to save Harry and, ultimately, wizardry? Come on. As soon as
>DD learned Harry could perform advanced magic, Apparating should have
>been the next lesson, if for no other reason than to give Harry a chance
>to escape harrowing situations.

Harry couldn't do a simple Summonign Charm. Good luck with
Ocuclmency. Apping could have been similar. And there could be a
very good reason there's an age limit (I'd say it's just a Wizarding
driving age, but still), and no amount of advanced magic performing
can utilize Apping right. For all we know, a splinched kid freaks out
more than a splinched 17 year old.
Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253704 ] So, 30 April 2006 13:50
DM  
Dave Hardenbrook wrote:
> DM wrote:
>
>> Or why didn't Dumbledore (or anyone else for that matter) ever teach
>> Harry to Apparate? That should have been the first thing to teach him
>> once he demonstrated he was capable of learning advanced magic.
>> Voldemort: "At last, Potter! I have you..." <crack!> "WTF? Where'd he
>> go?"
>
>
> Come to think of it, at Godric's Hollow, why didn't Lily just grab Harry
> and disapparate? (This is what James is telling her to do when he says,
> "It's him -- Take Harry -- I'll head him off"??)
>
> --
> Dave

I have a theory on this - When Dumbledore Apparates with Harry, it is
Harry who must hold on. Maybe you can't force a person to Apparate with
you. Baby Harry couldn't have known enough to hold on through the
uncomfortable experience, and it would also explain why no one serving
Voldemort has thought to just grab Harry and Apparate to wherever the
Dark Lord is.

--
DM
---

,_,
(O,O)
( )
-"-"-

dm1498 (at) gmail.com
---
"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
- Lord Voldemort

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Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253705 ] So, 30 April 2006 14:03
DM  
Toon wrote:

> On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 12:02:58 GMT, DM <dm1498 [at] {REMOVE}gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Are you joking? The MoM (or more specifically, Dumbledore) wouldn't bend
>>the rules to save Harry and, ultimately, wizardry? Come on. As soon as
>>DD learned Harry could perform advanced magic, Apparating should have
>>been the next lesson, if for no other reason than to give Harry a chance
>>to escape harrowing situations.
>
>
> Harry couldn't do a simple Summonign Charm. Good luck with
> Ocuclmency. Apping could have been similar. And there could be a
> very good reason there's an age limit (I'd say it's just a Wizarding
> driving age, but still), and no amount of advanced magic performing
> can utilize Apping right. For all we know, a splinched kid freaks out
> more than a splinched 17 year old.

This is true, but I'm not sure about the Occlumency. I think he just
didn't want to learn because he was so resentful of Snape. Everyone made
such a big deal about Harry creating a corporeal Patronus, which seemed
to be very advanced for his age. Had Dumbledore been his teacher, I'm
certain he would have learned it. (BTW, that's another annoyance - given
the seriousness of Harry's role in defeating Voldemort, why didn't
Dumbledore ever do any one-on-one teaching?! Geez, he could have spared
one class a week for the Chosen One...)

You could be right about age limits for Apparating, but I'm doubtful. I
think, like driving, 17 has been set as a general age of maturity. But
when it comes to a matter of life and death, surely Harry could have
started at 15 or even 16. He has proven himself capable of facing
situations and problems beyond most teenagers, and even some adults.

--
DM
---

,_,
(O,O)
( )
-"-"-

dm1498 (at) gmail.com
---
"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
- Lord Voldemort

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CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka
Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253736 ] Mo, 01 Mai 2006 01:54
drusilla  
Toon escribió:
> On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:37:38 GMT, DM <dm1498 [at] {REMOVE}gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Toon wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah. Surely he figured to people knew he was there and after Harry.
>>> Can't write on the walls, I don't want Potter, give me the Weasley
>>> Rat. OK, Ron'll be upset, but no adult won't solve this problem
>>> quickly if all it took was sacrificing one useless rat.
>> Considering Lupin's greeting in the Shrieking Shack, I think Remus would
>> have heeded a note from Sirius - "Peter is Ron's rat! Get it away from
>> Harry." And Dumbledore, as trusting as he was, I'm sure would have given
>> benefit of doubt to Sirius had he received an "I'm innocent of murdering
>> the Potters. Give me a chance to explain..."
>>
>> I mean, christ, if he can take the time to buy Harry a firebolt, he
>> could have bought a piece of parchment and a quill. Or better yet, he
>> was lurking in a bloody SCHOOL, there had to be quills and parchment all
>> over the place. How about taking a roll from a school bag instead of
>> shredding bed curtains?
>
> Ginny didn't need paper to write the COS message. Or why not send a
> Howler to Harry? Plenty of ear witnesses in the Great Hall.

Dumbledore might have not wanted the Dementors to hurt Sirius, but that
doesn't mean he considered him inocent, as he "knew" he was the Potter's
SK. We know, he trusted Snape, but apparently, he had evidence and
Sirius' evidence was not very reliable: it was some student's pet.

But yes, Lupin had understood, he could have recognised Peter,
whatsoever, knowing remus was there, Peter surely keep himself very away
from him.
Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253748 ] Mo, 01 Mai 2006 02:41
drusilla  
DM escribió:
> Toon wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 12:02:58 GMT, DM <dm1498 [at] {REMOVE}gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Are you joking? The MoM (or more specifically, Dumbledore) wouldn't
>>> bend the rules to save Harry and, ultimately, wizardry? Come on. As
>>> soon as DD learned Harry could perform advanced magic, Apparating
>>> should have been the next lesson, if for no other reason than to give
>>> Harry a chance to escape harrowing situations.
>>
>>
>> Harry couldn't do a simple Summonign Charm. Good luck with
>> Ocuclmency. Apping could have been similar. And there could be a
>> very good reason there's an age limit (I'd say it's just a Wizarding
>> driving age, but still), and no amount of advanced magic performing
>> can utilize Apping right. For all we know, a splinched kid freaks out
>> more than a splinched 17 year old.
>
> This is true, but I'm not sure about the Occlumency. I think he just
> didn't want to learn because he was so resentful of Snape.

Alogn with the fact he never fully understood why he was learning it. he
thought he was being possessed at first, later, his friends told him he
was not. So, why defence his mind against LV?
(I know that he knew also that LV and him were connected, but he didnt'
thought it was taht important.
Re: Felix Felices [message #253774 ] Mo, 01 Mai 2006 07:25
nystulc  
DM wrote:
> nystulc [at] cs.com wrote:
> > Huh? Can it be that you actually failed to notice that the supposed
> > benefit of Felix Felices is at least nine-tenths "placebo effect". Can
> > it really be that you failed to notice that this supposed miracle
> > potion worked just as well on Ron as it worked on Harry. Can it be
> > that you failed to notice that, in the opinion of Dumbledore, Harry
> > *always* had the ability to get the potion from Slughorn, just as in
> > Harry's opinion, Ron *always* had the ability to play well.
> >
> > Felix Felices is not quite the miracle potion you think it is. In any
> > event, there are not many who know how to make it. Slughorn is
> > *extremely* skilled, and Voldemort does not have access to him.
>
> Apparently YOU failed to read chapter 22.

How do you deduce that? Please explain.

> Whether it is a miracle potion
> (which I've never claimed) or a placebo, it does give the user an
> extraordinary amount of confidence and foresight, both of which could
> contribute to Harry's ultimate success.

Obviously. But the placebo-in-the-pumpkin-juice trick is one that one
can only use occasionally. Once the trick gets old, the trick stops
working.

> If I were on Harry's side, I'd
> want him to have every advantage possible.

Okay. But since Harry was in fact given some Felix Felices, I cannot
see what basis you can possibly have for complaining. JKR has already
provided at least one explanation (through Slughorn) why the potion can
be used only *very* occasionally, so you can hardly complain that folks
have waited until now to give him some.

> And certainly you cannot dumb enough believe Slughorn is the only
> Potions Master capable enough to brew up some Felix Felicis? I'm just
> assuming you aren't, but I've been wrong before. ;)

You know, I may just be that stupid. Slughorn tells us that it is
extremely tricky to get right, and DISASTROUS to get wrong. Slughorn
is the most-skilled potions Wizard we know of. If JKR were to tell us
that Slughorn were the only Wizard currently available with sufficient
skill to brew up a batch with reasonable safety, I would see no cause
for disbelieving her. For people of lesser skill, this might not be
worth the considerable risk.

But since you are much more intelligent than I am, please explain to me
why this is not possible.

> You must have failed
> to notice Slughorn stated the potion is 'tricky' to make, [...]

No. I noticed that.

> but nowhere
> does he say he's the only one who can make it.

Indeed.
Re: Felix Felices [message #253777 ] Mo, 01 Mai 2006 07:34
Kish  
nystulc [at] cs.com wrote:

> You know, I may just be that stupid. Slughorn tells us that it is
> extremely tricky to get right, and DISASTROUS to get wrong. Slughorn
> is the most-skilled potions Wizard we know of.

I agree with your overall point, but I'm inclined to think the student
has surpassed the teacher in that area (that is, that Snape is a better
potions maker than Slughorn).

Mind, if the only two wizards who can make Felix Felicis are Slughorn
and Snape, that still makes it more than rare enough for Harry's purposes.
Re: Felix Felices [message #253778 ] Mo, 01 Mai 2006 07:29
richard e white  
DM wrote:

> nystulc [at] cs.com wrote:
>
> > DM wrote:
> >
> >>The books are filled with plotholes. Hindsight is 20/10.
> >>How about the fact that, while Draco was busy fixing the cabinets,
> >>Voldemort didn't think to have a Potions Master mix up some Felix
> >>Felicis for the Death Eaters invading the castle? (Hmmm, maybe they did.
> >>Maybe that's why they succeeded in getting to Dumbledore!)
> >
> >
> > Huh? Can it be that you actually failed to notice that the supposed
> > benefit of Felix Felices is at least nine-tenths "placebo effect". Can
> > it really be that you failed to notice that this supposed miracle
> > potion worked just as well on Ron as it worked on Harry. Can it be
> > that you failed to notice that, in the opinion of Dumbledore, Harry
> > *always* had the ability to get the potion from Slughorn, just as in
> > Harry's opinion, Ron *always* had the ability to play well.
> >
> > Felix Felices is not quite the miracle potion you think it is. In any
> > event, there are not many who know how to make it. Slughorn is
> > *extremely* skilled, and Voldemort does not have access to him.
> >
>
> Apparently YOU failed to read chapter 22. Whether it is a miracle potion
> (which I've never claimed) or a placebo, it does give the user an
> extraordinary amount of confidence and foresight, both of which could
> contribute to Harry's ultimate success. If I were on Harry's side, I'd
> want him to have every advantage possible.
>
> And certainly you cannot dumb enough believe Slughorn is the only
> Potions Master capable enough to brew up some Felix Felicis? I'm just
> assuming you aren't, but I've been wrong before. ;) You must have failed
> to notice Slughorn stated the potion is 'tricky' to make, but nowhere
> does he say he's the only one who can make it.
>

I always thought the coment about it being toxic in large amounts was
inportend. And Slugghorn only used it twice. Vary far apart.
That makes me wonder how often it is safe to take it.

>
> --
> DM
> ---
>
> ,_,
> (O,O)
> ( )
> -"-"-
>
> dm1498 (at) gmail.com
> ---
> "RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
> "I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
> - Lord Voldemort
>
> HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
> CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
> HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka




--
Richard The Blind Typer
Lets Hear It For Talking Computers.
Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253779 ] Mo, 01 Mai 2006 07:35
richard e white  
DM wrote:

> Toon wrote:
>
> >
> > Yeah. Surely he figured to people knew he was there and after Harry.
> > Can't write on the walls, I don't want Potter, give me the Weasley
> > Rat. OK, Ron'll be upset, but no adult won't solve this problem
> > quickly if all it took was sacrificing one useless rat.
>
> Considering Lupin's greeting in the Shrieking Shack, I think Remus would
> have heeded a note from Sirius - "Peter is Ron's rat! Get it away from
> Harry." And Dumbledore, as trusting as he was, I'm sure would have given
> benefit of doubt to Sirius had he received an "I'm innocent of murdering
> the Potters. Give me a chance to explain..."

I'm not sure if lupin would belive as fast with the maps info.
But still if Black had sent in info about peter hideing as ron's rat then DD
and lupin would have tried the spell on the rat. After all the spell
wouldn't harm a real rat and only forces aniamagies back to there true form.

How ever as this was the sane thing to do and I would not call Black sane at
that point orany point until after he was off and recovering. The book said
he was obsesing at that point.

>
>
> I mean, christ, if he can take the time to buy Harry a firebolt, he
> could have bought a piece of parchment and a quill. Or better yet, he
> was lurking in a bloody SCHOOL, there had to be quills and parchment all
> over the place. How about taking a roll from a school bag instead of
> shredding bed curtains?
>
> --
> DM
> ---
>
> ,_,
> (O,O)
> ( )
> -"-"-
>
> dm1498 (at) gmail.com
> ---
> "RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
> "I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
> - Lord Voldemort
>
> HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
> CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
> HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka




--
Richard The Blind Typer
Lets Hear It For Talking Computers.
Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253780 ] Mo, 01 Mai 2006 07:38
richard e white  
Dave Hardenbrook wrote:

> DM wrote:
> > Or why didn't Dumbledore (or anyone else for
> > that matter) ever teach Harry to Apparate? That should have been the
> > first thing to teach him once he demonstrated he was capable of learning
> > advanced magic. Voldemort: "At last, Potter! I have you..." <crack!>
> > "WTF? Where'd he go?"
>
> Come to think of it, at Godric's Hollow, why didn't Lily just grab Harry
> and disapparate? (This is what James is telling her to do when he says,
> "It's him -- Take Harry -- I'll head him off"??)
>
> --
> Dave

I would bet on things we have not been told about. Giveing V half a brain and
he would have put an antiapperation charm on the location before he tried to
get in and do the killings.
But I still expect that some thing is hidden there.


--
Richard The Blind Typer
Lets Hear It For Talking Computers.
Re: Felix Felices [message #253781 ] Mo, 01 Mai 2006 08:13
Ken  
Commenting on why doesn't Voldemort use felix felices.

Assuming that he could get the potion, I can see several reasons why he
wouldn't use it.

1. LV scoff at Harry surviving as a baby as "luck". I don't think LV
believes in luck and would certainly not want any of his death eaters
depending on luck for any of his well planned assignments. I think that LV
sees luck as a weakness.

2. when Harry asked DD about a sorcerer's stone... DD said that while LV
would use a stone to get back his body... DD thought that LV would not want
to *depend* upon a stone for eternal life. In the same way I don't think LV
would want to depend on a potion for a battle.

3. I don't know if a "luck potion" would work with an evil person or a
person going down a bad path. Let's say an alcoholic takes a luck potion...
will it lead him to a bottle of rum or to someone who could help him not
drink?

Ken
Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253785 ] Mo, 01 Mai 2006 08:39
Helena Bowles  
"richard e white" <chiphead [at] cox.net> wrote in message
news:44559E25.DE365BC8 [at] cox.net...
> DM wrote:
>
>> Toon wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Yeah. Surely he figured to people knew he was there and after Harry.
>> > Can't write on the walls, I don't want Potter, give me the Weasley
>> > Rat. OK, Ron'll be upset, but no adult won't solve this problem
>> > quickly if all it took was sacrificing one useless rat.
>>
>> Considering Lupin's greeting in the Shrieking Shack, I think Remus would
>> have heeded a note from Sirius - "Peter is Ron's rat! Get it away from
>> Harry." And Dumbledore, as trusting as he was, I'm sure would have given
>> benefit of doubt to Sirius had he received an "I'm innocent of murdering
>> the Potters. Give me a chance to explain..."
>
> I'm not sure if lupin would belive as fast with the maps info.
> But still if Black had sent in info about peter hideing as ron's rat then
> DD
> and lupin would have tried the spell on the rat. After all the spell
> wouldn't harm a real rat and only forces aniamagies back to there true
> form.

Did Sirius even know Lupin was at the school?
>
> How ever as this was the sane thing to do and I would not call Black sane
> at
> that point orany point until after he was off and recovering. The book
> said
> he was obsesing at that point.

Certainly not thinking clearly or logically...
Helena
Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253807 ] Mo, 01 Mai 2006 14:17
Toon  
On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 05:50:37 GMT, Dave Hardenbrook
<daveh47 [at] mindspring.com> wrote:

>DM wrote:
>> Or why didn't Dumbledore (or anyone else for
>> that matter) ever teach Harry to Apparate? That should have been the
>> first thing to teach him once he demonstrated he was capable of learning
>> advanced magic. Voldemort: "At last, Potter! I have you..." <crack!>
>> "WTF? Where'd he go?"
>
>Come to think of it, at Godric's Hollow, why didn't Lily just grab Harry
>and disapparate? (This is what James is telling her to do when he says,
>"It's him -- Take Harry -- I'll head him off"??)

She failed her tests and never told him?
Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253808 ] Mo, 01 Mai 2006 14:18
Toon  
On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 18:54:40 -0500, drusilla <me [at] me.net> wrote:

>Toon escribió:
>> On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:37:38 GMT, DM <dm1498 [at] {REMOVE}gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Toon wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yeah. Surely he figured to people knew he was there and after Harry.
>>>> Can't write on the walls, I don't want Potter, give me the Weasley
>>>> Rat. OK, Ron'll be upset, but no adult won't solve this problem
>>>> quickly if all it took was sacrificing one useless rat.
>>> Considering Lupin's greeting in the Shrieking Shack, I think Remus would
>>> have heeded a note from Sirius - "Peter is Ron's rat! Get it away from
>>> Harry." And Dumbledore, as trusting as he was, I'm sure would have given
>>> benefit of doubt to Sirius had he received an "I'm innocent of murdering
>>> the Potters. Give me a chance to explain..."
>>>
>>> I mean, christ, if he can take the time to buy Harry a firebolt, he
>>> could have bought a piece of parchment and a quill. Or better yet, he
>>> was lurking in a bloody SCHOOL, there had to be quills and parchment all
>>> over the place. How about taking a roll from a school bag instead of
>>> shredding bed curtains?
>>
>> Ginny didn't need paper to write the COS message. Or why not send a
>> Howler to Harry? Plenty of ear witnesses in the Great Hall.
>
>Dumbledore might have not wanted the Dementors to hurt Sirius, but that
>doesn't mean he considered him inocent, as he "knew" he was the Potter's
>SK. We know, he trusted Snape, but apparently, he had evidence and
>Sirius' evidence was not very reliable: it was some student's pet.
>
>But yes, Lupin had understood, he could have recognised Peter,
>whatsoever, knowing remus was there, Peter surely keep himself very away
>from him.

Well, he faked his own death just to avoid Crookshanks.
Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253809 ] Mo, 01 Mai 2006 14:20
Toon  
On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:03:22 GMT, DM <dm1498 [at] {REMOVE}gmail.com> wrote:

>This is true, but I'm not sure about the Occlumency. I think he just
>didn't want to learn because he was so resentful of Snape. Everyone made
>such a big deal about Harry creating a corporeal Patronus, which seemed
>to be very advanced for his age. Had Dumbledore been his teacher, I'm
>certain he would have learned it. (BTW, that's another annoyance - given
>the seriousness of Harry's role in defeating Voldemort, why didn't
>Dumbledore ever do any one-on-one teaching?! Geez, he could have spared
>one class a week for the Chosen One...)

Because Harry was learning it to block out Volemort, and DD didn't
want V spying on him. If Harry spots the pensive, V can take control
of him and go through the memories.
Re: More Plothole Complaints [message #253810 ] Mo, 01 Mai 2006 14:21
Toon  
On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:50:58 GMT, DM <dm1498 [at] {REMOVE}gmail.com> wrote:

>Dave Hardenbrook wrote:
>> DM wrote:
>>
>>> Or why didn't Dumbledore (or anyone else for that matter) ever teach
>>> Harry to Apparate? That should have been the first thing to teach him
>>> once he demonstrated he was capable of learning advanced magic.
>>> Voldemort: "At last, Potter! I have you..." <crack!> "WTF? Where'd he
>>> go?"
>>
>>
>> Come to think of it, at Godric's Hollow, why didn't Lily just grab Harry
>> and disapparate? (This is what James is telling her to do when he says,
>> "It's him -- Take Harry -- I'll head him off"??)
>>
>> --
>> Dave
>
>I have a theory on this - When Dumbledore Apparates with Harry, it is
>Harry who must hold on. Maybe you can't force a person to Apparate with
>you. Baby Harry couldn't have known enough to hold on through the
>uncomfortable experience, and it would also explain why no one serving
>Voldemort has thought to just grab Harry and Apparate to wherever the
>Dark Lord is.

There was something about side along apping with your kids. You
didn't just grab them and pop off.
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