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Fantasy » alt.fan.harry-potter » GOF Snape and the Dark Mark
| GOF Snape and the Dark Mark [message #253080] |
Sa, 22 April 2006 19:06 |
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SPOILERS possibly
10
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2
1
If this has been discussed before could someone please point me in the
right direction, I have looked myself but there's a lot of stuff
surrounding Snape to wade through.
I was wondering about the Dark Mark. In GOF when LV touched it in the
graveyard wouldn't it have burnt Snape's arm? If so why did he do
nothing about it? Why not immediately go and tell DD? Was Snape in on
the plot to kill Harry and therefore not want to inform DD? Or as I
suspect is this just a plot hole? (Or, even more likely, i'm missing
something all to obvious!)
Em
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| Re: GOF Snape and the Dark Mark [message #253082 ] |
Sa, 22 April 2006 19:20 |
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Em wrote:
>
> 1
>
> If this has been discussed before could someone please point me in the
> right direction, I have looked myself but there's a lot of stuff
> surrounding Snape to wade through.
>
> I was wondering about the Dark Mark. In GOF when LV touched it in the
> graveyard wouldn't it have burnt Snape's arm? If so why did he do
> nothing about it? Why not immediately go and tell DD? Was Snape in on
> the plot to kill Harry and therefore not want to inform DD? Or as I
> suspect is this just a plot hole? (Or, even more likely, i'm missing
> something all to obvious!)
>
> Em
Snape was not present (obviously) in the graveyard, which was the
current scene in the book right then, so we have no idea what he may or
may not have done. V comments on the missing DE's, one of which could
be Snape.. or Karkaroff. We are never made privy to most things
happening outside the current scene in the book. I am sure this is part
of the plan to keep us wondering about Snape and where his actual
loyalties are. There are lots of *what if's* and *why didn't they
just...* Maybe he did tell Dumbledore. Or maybe he didn't. If he had,
we still would not have been made privy to that information because it
wasn't suitable to the plot at that point.
M_m
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| Re: GOF Snape and the Dark Mark [message #253088 ] |
Sa, 22 April 2006 21:26 |
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Em wrote:
> If this has been discussed before could someone please point me in the
> right direction, I have looked myself but there's a lot of stuff
> surrounding Snape to wade through.
>
> I was wondering about the Dark Mark. In GOF when LV touched it in the
> graveyard wouldn't it have burnt Snape's arm? If so why did he do
> nothing about it? Why not immediately go and tell DD? Was Snape in on
> the plot to kill Harry and therefore not want to inform DD? Or as I
> suspect is this just a plot hole? (Or, even more likely, i'm missing
> something all to obvious!)
>
> Em
Snape's Dark Mark in GOF did burn. It was already getting darker (his
conversation with Karkaroff in GOF). Towards the end of GOF, DD tells
Snape, "You know what I must ask you to do", which was to apparate to V
two hours after receiving the summons so that Snape could continue his
counterspy role with Voldemort. I don't know what kind of punishment
was handed out to Snape for apparating late (since the DEs are supposed
to appear immediately), but obviously Snape was able to weave a
credible enough story for V to believe.
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| Re: GOF Snape and the Dark Mark [message #253099 ] |
So, 23 April 2006 01:41 |
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Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)
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| Re: GOF Snape and the Dark Mark [message #253115 ] |
So, 23 April 2006 09:52 |
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On 22 Apr 2006 10:06:31 -0700, "Em" <bemhed [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>SPOILERS possibly
>
>10
>
>9
>
>8
>
>7
>
>6
>
>5
>
>4
>
>3
>
>2
>
>1
>
>If this has been discussed before could someone please point me in the
>right direction, I have looked myself but there's a lot of stuff
>surrounding Snape to wade through.
>
>I was wondering about the Dark Mark. In GOF when LV touched it in the
>graveyard wouldn't it have burnt Snape's arm? If so why did he do
>nothing about it? Why not immediately go and tell DD? Was Snape in on
>the plot to kill Harry and therefore not want to inform DD? Or as I
>suspect is this just a plot hole? (Or, even more likely, i'm missing
>something all to obvious!)
>
>Em
Was he in on the killing? That's the Ultimate Question of the books.
Who's side is Snape on?
Snape didn't tell DD because they were in a public place, and that'd
cause panic. The mark was getting stronger daily. DD knew this. and
since all attention was on the TWT, it mattered not for a few more
hours.
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| Re: GOF Snape and the Dark Mark [message #253116 ] |
So, 23 April 2006 09:56 |
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On 22 Apr 2006 12:26:14 -0700, wadkin2000 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>
>Em wrote:
>
>> If this has been discussed before could someone please point me in the
>> right direction, I have looked myself but there's a lot of stuff
>> surrounding Snape to wade through.
>>
>> I was wondering about the Dark Mark. In GOF when LV touched it in the
>> graveyard wouldn't it have burnt Snape's arm? If so why did he do
>> nothing about it? Why not immediately go and tell DD? Was Snape in on
>> the plot to kill Harry and therefore not want to inform DD? Or as I
>> suspect is this just a plot hole? (Or, even more likely, i'm missing
>> something all to obvious!)
>>
>> Em
>
>
>Snape's Dark Mark in GOF did burn. It was already getting darker (his
>conversation with Karkaroff in GOF). Towards the end of GOF, DD tells
>Snape, "You know what I must ask you to do", which was to apparate to V
>two hours after receiving the summons so that Snape could continue his
>counterspy role with Voldemort. I don't know what kind of punishment
>was handed out to Snape for apparating late (since the DEs are supposed
>to appear immediately), but obviously Snape was able to weave a
>credible enough story for V to believe.
Still makes no sense. Snape's in an apparate proof setting. He's in
a public place because of the tournament. he's a fullf fledged
teacher with responsibilities and duties. He might actually tutor, as
would be his OOP cover story with Harry. How can he be expected to
pop off home, change his clothes, and pop to his master at a moment's
notice? he should have been given some leeway. OK, 2 hours later is
pushing it, but still, a good half hour to 45 minutes grace period is
surely needed.
Perhaps V was expecting a sign, or an owl or such, and thus said I
believe about the one who left forever. Even he didn't know why Snape
didn't send word until he was free to come,.
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| Re: GOF Snape and the Dark Mark [message #253151 ] |
So, 23 April 2006 22:21 |
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yeah, it did burn on his arm because it burnt on all of the
deatheaters' arms. however, i think that he thought that if he went
immediately to voldemort, then he'd lose dumbledore's trust. have you
read the sixth book? if you haven't then i won't spoil anything. but if
you read that, then it'll make everything understandable.
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| Re: GOF Snape and the Dark Mark [message #253220 ] |
Mo, 24 April 2006 17:01 |
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> I was wondering about the Dark Mark. In GOF
> when LV touched it in the graveyard wouldn't it
> have burnt Snape's arm? If so why did he do
> nothing about it? Why not immediately go and
> tell DD? Was Snape in on the plot to kill Harry
> and therefore not want to inform DD?
Much as I detest Snape and think he is evil and wants to be the top
wizard in the world I think the man is innocent, on this count that
is. It's cannon that Snape told Fudge in Dumbledore's presents that
the mark on his arm had been getting clearer for months and Dumbledore
showed no surprise at hearing this, he must have heard it before. When
Harry disappeared after he touched the cup Snape probably did tell
Dumbledore that his mark had made a particularly powerful twitch but it
would have done no good, nobody knew where Harry was.
I don't think Snape ever wanted Harry dead because he knew from the
prophesy Harry was the only one who could kill Voldemort, one of only
two wizards more powerful than he was. Snape took care of the other one
on his own.
Eggplant
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| Re: GOF Snape and the Dark Mark [message #253221 ] |
Mo, 24 April 2006 17:09 |
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Snape explained what happened in HBP. Did you read it? It's very
clear. He did tell Dumbledore.
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| Re: GOF Snape and the Dark Mark [message #253254 ] |
Di, 25 April 2006 06:59 |
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eggplant wrote:
>>I was wondering about the Dark Mark. In GOF
>>when LV touched it in the graveyard wouldn't it
>>have burnt Snape's arm? If so why did he do
>>nothing about it? Why not immediately go and
>>tell DD? Was Snape in on the plot to kill Harry
>>and therefore not want to inform DD?
>
>
> Much as I detest Snape and think he is evil and wants to be the top
> wizard in the world I think the man is innocent, on this count that
> is. It's cannon that Snape told Fudge in Dumbledore's presents that
> the mark on his arm had been getting clearer for months and Dumbledore
> showed no surprise at hearing this, he must have heard it before. When
> Harry disappeared after he touched the cup Snape probably did tell
> Dumbledore that his mark had made a particularly powerful twitch but it
> would have done no good, nobody knew where Harry was.
>
If Death Eaters can know exactly where to Apparate when Voldemort
touches a Mark, Snape must have known exactly where Voldemort was when
the summons went out. His failure to relate this information to
Dumbledore could have easily (and would have, if it weren't for the
/Deus ex Machina/ effect) resulted in Harry's death. What reason would
Good Snape have had to not communicate Voldemort's regaining of power
(and exact location), especially at such a coincidental time? If they
had been quick, they could have caught the Death Eaters by surprise
while they were reorganizing.
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| Re: GOF Snape and the Dark Mark [message #253295 ] |
Mi, 26 April 2006 00:32 |
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"Paul W. Lints Jr." <Paul [at] DontBother.Trying> wrote in message
news:e2ka90$bnq$1 [at] emma.aioe.org...
> eggplant wrote:
>
> If Death Eaters can know exactly where to Apparate when Voldemort
> touches a Mark, Snape must have known exactly where Voldemort was when
> the summons went out. His failure to relate this information to
> Dumbledore could have easily (and would have, if it weren't for the
> /Deus ex Machina/ effect) resulted in Harry's death. What reason would
> Good Snape have had to not communicate Voldemort's regaining of power
> (and exact location), especially at such a coincidental time? If they
> had been quick, they could have caught the Death Eaters by surprise
> while they were reorganizing.
They may not know where geographically they're apparating to - only that
they're apparating "near to Voldy". If so, and the info's limited so perhaps
they only feel or sense it themselves without being able to describe
direction, or if the location can't be passed on much in the same sort of
way that non-secret-keepers can't pass on details, then it wouldn't be much
use to Dd and co.
DaveD
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| Re: GOF Snape and the Dark Mark [message #253307 ] |
Mi, 26 April 2006 04:04 |
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Paul W. Lints Jr. wrote:
> eggplant wrote:
> >>I was wondering about the Dark Mark. In GOF
> >>when LV touched it in the graveyard wouldn't it
> >>have burnt Snape's arm? If so why did he do
> >>nothing about it? Why not immediately go and
> >>tell DD? Was Snape in on the plot to kill Harry
> >>and therefore not want to inform DD?
> >
> >
> > Much as I detest Snape and think he is evil and wants to be the top
> > wizard in the world I think the man is innocent, on this count that
> > is. It's cannon that Snape told Fudge in Dumbledore's presents that
> > the mark on his arm had been getting clearer for months and Dumbledore
> > showed no surprise at hearing this, he must have heard it before. When
> > Harry disappeared after he touched the cup Snape probably did tell
> > Dumbledore that his mark had made a particularly powerful twitch but it
> > would have done no good, nobody knew where Harry was.
> >
>
> If Death Eaters can know exactly where to Apparate when Voldemort
> touches a Mark, Snape must have known exactly where Voldemort was when
> the summons went out. His failure to relate this information to
> Dumbledore could have easily (and would have, if it weren't for the
> /Deus ex Machina/ effect) resulted in Harry's death. What reason would
> Good Snape have had to not communicate Voldemort's regaining of power
> (and exact location), especially at such a coincidental time? If they
> had been quick, they could have caught the Death Eaters by surprise
> while they were reorganizing.
It's also possible that the properties of the Dark Mark (considering
the wizard who gave it to the DEs) are contradictive to regular
apparition. The DE's could receive the summons and apparate to
Voldemort's location, but not necessarily know what the location is.
As I said above, I'm sure that when Snape did receive the summons
(which was when he was in the stands for the TWC), he probably did tell
DD. However, what would anyone have been able to do? The champions
were in the maze, the stands were full of students and DOM
representatives, the cup had been turned into a portkey (unbeknownst to
everyone) and all Snape and DD had to go on was that the mark burned
(and so did Karkaroff"s). It's not a question of being quick. It's more
a question of logistics.
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| Re: GOF Snape and the Dark Mark [message #253313 ] |
Mi, 26 April 2006 07:06 |
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On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:59:49 -0700, "Paul W. Lints Jr."
<Paul [at] DontBother.Trying> wrote:
>eggplant wrote:
>>>I was wondering about the Dark Mark. In GOF
>>>when LV touched it in the graveyard wouldn't it
>>>have burnt Snape's arm? If so why did he do
>>>nothing about it? Why not immediately go and
>>>tell DD? Was Snape in on the plot to kill Harry
>>>and therefore not want to inform DD?
>>
>>
>> Much as I detest Snape and think he is evil and wants to be the top
>> wizard in the world I think the man is innocent, on this count that
>> is. It's cannon that Snape told Fudge in Dumbledore's presents that
>> the mark on his arm had been getting clearer for months and Dumbledore
>> showed no surprise at hearing this, he must have heard it before. When
>> Harry disappeared after he touched the cup Snape probably did tell
>> Dumbledore that his mark had made a particularly powerful twitch but it
>> would have done no good, nobody knew where Harry was.
>>
>
>If Death Eaters can know exactly where to Apparate when Voldemort
>touches a Mark, Snape must have known exactly where Voldemort was when
>the summons went out. His failure to relate this information to
>Dumbledore could have easily (and would have, if it weren't for the
>/Deus ex Machina/ effect) resulted in Harry's death. What reason would
>Good Snape have had to not communicate Voldemort's regaining of power
>(and exact location), especially at such a coincidental time? If they
>had been quick, they could have caught the Death Eaters by surprise
>while they were reorganizing.
Who says he was able to tell DD? DD might have been busy, and told
him later. Or, fine, we'll deal with it after the TWT ends. No need
to panic the masses. Nobody knew Harry was abducted at this point.
Complete the Tournament, declare the winner, continue building the
interschool ties. One last happy before the poopies hit the fan.
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