Sprinkler Systems Uhaul move Lawn care Roses and trees Ford Parts Chrysler Parts Lake Powell New IPod Touch Apps New IPhone Apps IPhone Apps IPad Information IPad Apps Android APPS Android Games APPS Android Systems Android Tablets APPS and Beyond Smartphone Apps Smartphone Games Apps Repair and Tools Tablet PC Car Sharing Car Leasing Tabler Pc Fly Fishing Toyota Cars Vacation Rentals Stock market NYSE SSE Stock Freight & Shipping News Gluten Lactose Gout My Coupon Life Campgrounds Check Outdoor Kitchen Design and Redoo Bath Remodeling Palm Springs Las Vegas Vacation Tipps Lake Powell Boating Homes for lease Electric and green Car Blog Pearls and diamonds Whatsapp and forget SMS Blog, What is Whatsapp App Solar Panel Solar Energie Sun Power Blog
Reader


[Suche]  [Administrator]  [Hinweise zum Reader]  [Startseite]
Fantasy » alt.fan.harry-potter » GoF question
GoF question [message #252962] Do, 20 April 2006 17:13
Magic_mom  
I don't know why I am watching it this morning except there is nothing
else on TV to watch and I like the background noise while I am doing
housework. And perhaps I am mixing up the movie and the book, but the
movie was just at the part where Moody is talking to Harry about the
first task, "play to your strengths" etc etc.. Harry knows he needs his
broom but cannot take it with him. He is allowed the wand, "use the
wand to get what you need".. also in the book if I recall. Why, if they
are not allowed to take the broom with them upon entering the task, are
they then allowed to get it anyway by using the wand? He had to learn
how to "Accio" in the book; it was glossed over in the movie of course
but the plot is still the same at that point; he obtains the broom via
the spell. I can kind of *Get it* that they need to use their wits and
strengths in the task and must go in with nothing but the wand; using
the wand to do what they need. Since Harry *needs* his broom, that
makes it ok at that point? It isn't quite addressed in the book why he
is allowed to obtain the broom, but then I guess I am probably
over-thinking it. I should stick to washing dishes this morning.

M_m
Re: GoF question [message #252965 ] Do, 20 April 2006 17:52
roomson  
http://www.hlkxx.com/study/renwuchunqiu/mingrenfangtan/20060 4/study_20060417215458.htm
http://www.hlkxx.com/study/renwuchunqiu/dongfangqiyejia/2006 04/study_20060414153434.htm
Re: GoF question [message #252967 ] Do, 20 April 2006 18:25
MermaidsMom  
First of all, I am so sick of all the stupid spam clogging this place up.
And I miss Troels.

Anyhow...as another mom who also likes to have background noise while
tackling tough laundry stains, etc., my mind also wanders to these
(unanswerable, usually) questions about HP. Magic Mom, I think you are
correct in that the book and movie follow the same dialogue about only
being allowed the wand, use your strengths, etc. Maybe meant to show that
part of the "test" is to use your smarts as well as your wizarding skills?
Your wand is your starting point; what is the best way to use it? And then
it's up to Harry to figure out his best way to use it would be to get his
broom? I don't know. But I also ponder these minor plot details and
sometimes even lose valuable sleep time because of them! Anyone else have
an idea?
Re: GoF question [message #252970 ] Do, 20 April 2006 19:10
lesliemills2002  
Magic_mom wrote:

(stuff deleted, regarding the First Task in GoF)

> Harry knows he needs his
> broom but cannot take it with him. He is allowed the wand, "use the
> wand to get what you need".. also in the book if I recall.

> Why, if they
> are not allowed to take the broom with them upon entering the task, are
> they then allowed to get it anyway by using the wand?

(rest of post deleted)

The purpose of the first task was probably to see how the contestants
can handle a situation without specialized tools. Wands are considered
general purpose tools for wizards, so they are allowed to keep them.

Since there were few restrictions on wand use, Harry could use the wand
to gain his broom and use his flying abilities to pass the task.
Re: GoF question [message #252972 ] Do, 20 April 2006 20:23
Magic_mom  
MermaidsMom wrote:
> First of all, I am so sick of all the stupid spam clogging this place up.
> And I miss Troels.

Well, blame it on Google.. but since it is currently the only way *I*
can get to my newsgroups, I can't be TOO harsh on them.

I pretty much agree with the other reply, and am sure that is what I
decided a long time ago, lol.. Just sometimes wanna ask anyway and see
if anyone else has another perspective.

M_m
Re: GoF question [message #252982 ] Fr, 21 April 2006 03:14
Imagun Aqilya  
"Magic_mom" <SpencerTL [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1145546008.791834.135990 [at] g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Why, if they
> are not allowed to take the broom with them upon entering the task, are
> they then allowed to get it anyway by using the wand? > M_m
>

Don't forget that they weren't supposed to know what the first task was
until they actually got there. If he hadn't cheated he would have had no way
of knowing he needed a broom until it was too late to fetch it.
Re: GoF question [message #252984 ] Fr, 21 April 2006 05:28
mystic  
MermaidsMom wrote:

> First of all, I am so sick of all the stupid spam clogging this place up.
> And I miss Troels.
>
> Anyhow...as another mom who also likes to have background noise while
> tackling tough laundry stains, etc., my mind also wanders to these
> (unanswerable, usually) questions about HP. Magic Mom, I think you are
> correct in that the book and movie follow the same dialogue about only
> being allowed the wand, use your strengths, etc. Maybe meant to show that
> part of the "test" is to use your smarts as well as your wizarding skills?
> Your wand is your starting point; what is the best way to use it? And then
> it's up to Harry to figure out his best way to use it would be to get his
> broom? I don't know. But I also ponder these minor plot details and
> sometimes even lose valuable sleep time because of them! Anyone else have
> an idea?
>
When in Boy Scouts years ago I was told to start a fire. I could not use
matches (which I had handy). The assumption was that I would use
primative means. I took out my flashlight and the steelwool (SOS Pads
with soap). I used the batteries connected to the SOS pads to make them
ignite. Then used this to start my fire. While this was not the approved
way of "starting a fire" it was accepted because I used my head instead
of the "standard method". I think this relates to your question. It is
not so much how the job is done, but getting the job done however you can.
*MYSTIC*
Re: GoF question [message #252985 ] Fr, 21 April 2006 05:50
Neener  
*MYSTIC* wrote:
> MermaidsMom wrote:
>
> > First of all, I am so sick of all the stupid spam clogging this place up.
> > And I miss Troels.
> >
> > Anyhow...as another mom who also likes to have background noise while
> > tackling tough laundry stains, etc., my mind also wanders to these
> > (unanswerable, usually) questions about HP. Magic Mom, I think you are
> > correct in that the book and movie follow the same dialogue about only
> > being allowed the wand, use your strengths, etc. Maybe meant to show that
> > part of the "test" is to use your smarts as well as your wizarding skills?
> > Your wand is your starting point; what is the best way to use it? And then
> > it's up to Harry to figure out his best way to use it would be to get his
> > broom? I don't know. But I also ponder these minor plot details and
> > sometimes even lose valuable sleep time because of them! Anyone else have
> > an idea?
> >
> When in Boy Scouts years ago I was told to start a fire. I could not use
> matches (which I had handy). The assumption was that I would use
> primative means. I took out my flashlight and the steelwool (SOS Pads
> with soap). I used the batteries connected to the SOS pads to make them
> ignite. Then used this to start my fire. While this was not the approved
> way of "starting a fire" it was accepted because I used my head instead
> of the "standard method". I think this relates to your question. It is
> not so much how the job is done, but getting the job done however you can.
> *MYSTIC*

I applaud your ingenuity. Had you actually used your HEAD to start the
fire, though, that would have been something remarkable indeed :-)
Re: GoF question [message #252986 ] Fr, 21 April 2006 05:56
Magic_mom  
Imagun Aqilya wrote:
> "Magic_mom" <SpencerTL [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1145546008.791834.135990 [at] g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Why, if they
> > are not allowed to take the broom with them upon entering the task, are
> > they then allowed to get it anyway by using the wand? > M_m
> >
>
> Don't forget that they weren't supposed to know what the first task was
> until they actually got there. If he hadn't cheated he would have had no way
> of knowing he needed a broom until it was too late to fetch it.

Ah.. that would be the key and hadn't occurred to me at all!

M_m
Re: GoF question [message #252990 ] Fr, 21 April 2006 09:53
Toon  
On 20 Apr 2006 08:13:28 -0700, "Magic_mom" <SpencerTL [at] gmail.com>
wrote:

>I don't know why I am watching it this morning except there is nothing
>else on TV to watch and I like the background noise while I am doing
>housework. And perhaps I am mixing up the movie and the book, but the
>movie was just at the part where Moody is talking to Harry about the
>first task, "play to your strengths" etc etc.. Harry knows he needs his
>broom but cannot take it with him. He is allowed the wand, "use the
>wand to get what you need".. also in the book if I recall. Why, if they
>are not allowed to take the broom with them upon entering the task, are
>they then allowed to get it anyway by using the wand? He had to learn
>how to "Accio" in the book; it was glossed over in the movie of course
>but the plot is still the same at that point; he obtains the broom via
>the spell. I can kind of *Get it* that they need to use their wits and
>strengths in the task and must go in with nothing but the wand; using
>the wand to do what they need. Since Harry *needs* his broom, that
>makes it ok at that point? It isn't quite addressed in the book why he
>is allowed to obtain the broom, but then I guess I am probably
>over-thinking it. I should stick to washing dishes this morning.
>
>M_m

Think of it this way. He needed to sue magic to create/acquire/etc
the tools he needed to get the egg. Carrying his broom, hopping on
it, and flying around accomplishes none of that. There is no
challenge.
Re: GoF question [message #252991 ] Fr, 21 April 2006 09:55
Toon  
On 20 Apr 2006 20:56:13 -0700, "Magic_mom" <SpencerTL [at] gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>Imagun Aqilya wrote:
>> "Magic_mom" <SpencerTL [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1145546008.791834.135990 [at] g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> Why, if they
>> > are not allowed to take the broom with them upon entering the task, are
>> > they then allowed to get it anyway by using the wand? > M_m
>> >
>>
>> Don't forget that they weren't supposed to know what the first task was
>> until they actually got there. If he hadn't cheated he would have had no way
>> of knowing he needed a broom until it was too late to fetch it.
>
>Ah.. that would be the key and hadn't occurred to me at all!
>
>M_m

Course, everybody cheated, so. . .
Re: GoF question [message #253494 ] Fr, 28 April 2006 10:02
richard e white  
Magic_mom wrote:

> I don't know why I am watching it this morning except there is nothing
> else on TV to watch and I like the background noise while I am doing
> housework. And perhaps I am mixing up the movie and the book, but the
> movie was just at the part where Moody is talking to Harry about the
> first task, "play to your strengths" etc etc.. Harry knows he needs his
> broom but cannot take it with him. He is allowed the wand, "use the
> wand to get what you need".. also in the book if I recall. Why, if they
> are not allowed to take the broom with them upon entering the task, are
> they then allowed to get it anyway by using the wand?

It was a test. the idea of that task was what would you do if you ran into
a situwation and all you had was your wand. It is like any preset test.
you can do anything that doesn't break the rules. No one said they
couldn't call things to them. so all of them could do that but only Harry
did it.


> He had to learn
> how to "Accio" in the book; it was glossed over in the movie of course
> but the plot is still the same at that point; he obtains the broom via
> the spell. I can kind of *Get it* that they need to use their wits and
> strengths in the task and must go in with nothing but the wand; using
> the wand to do what they need. Since Harry *needs* his broom, that
> makes it ok at that point? It isn't quite addressed in the book why he
> is allowed to obtain the broom, but then I guess I am probably
> over-thinking it. I should stick to washing dishes this morning.

In a way yes you are over thinking it. Just think back on the rules they
were told and you will see that vary few things were out of bounds.
I think one of the funny things is that harry and co do the same thing.
They think that ron and HG helping harry is wrong. But the rules say that
harry is not able to get or ask for help from the teachers. It never said
that they couldn't get help from other students.
But people do this all the time. I can't remember the name for it but it
is where the person hearing the rules but there own minds add more that
they think the rules said. People often make things harder then they
meant.


>
>
> M_m




--
Richard The Blind Typer
Lets Hear It For Talking Computers.
Re: GoF question [message #253609 ] Sa, 29 April 2006 04:15
dicconf  
In article <4451CC16.16CC6150 [at] cox.net>,
richard e white <chiphead [at] cox.net> wrote:
>Magic_mom wrote:
>
>> I can kind of *Get it* that they need to use their wits and
>> strengths in the task and must go in with nothing but the wand; using
>> the wand to do what they need. Since Harry *needs* his broom, that
>> makes it ok at that point? It isn't quite addressed in the book why
>> he is allowed to obtain the broom, but then I guess I am probably
>> over-thinking it. I should stick to washing dishes this morning.
>
>In a way yes you are over thinking it. Just think back on the rules they
>were told and you will see that vary few things were out of bounds.
>
>I think one of the funny things is that harry and co do the same thing.
>They think that ron and HG helping harry is wrong. But the rules say that
>harry is not able to get or ask for help from the teachers. It never said
>that they couldn't get help from other students.

Right. I kept wondering why they were doing that.

>But people do this all the time. I can't remember the name for it but
>it is where the person hearing the rules but their own minds add more
>that they think the rules said. People often make things harder than
>they meant.

Someone told me things like that are called
"making an assumption not in evidence." I think the term comes
from the language used in formal debating competitions.

We all do it; it's part of how we survive in a complex world. If we had
to wait until we had all the facts before acting, we'd never do anything.
But we need to be alert to when we are making an assumption, and not just
go by habit and what worked five years ago in a different situation. We
also need to stay alert for new information when it is discovered.

=Tamar
Re: GoF question [message #253631 ] Sa, 29 April 2006 10:20
Toon  
On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 01:02:30 -0700, richard e white <chiphead [at] cox.net>
wrote:

>They think that ron and HG helping harry is wrong. But the rules say that
>harry is not able to get or ask for help from the teachers. It never said
>that they couldn't get help from other students.

Well, CrouchMoody had no problem giving Neville a book with a solution
to Task 2 to give to Harry. I'm pretty sure he was given a list of Da
Rules. If it was wrong to ask a student for help, he'd never give
Neille the book.
Re: GoF question [message #253647 ] Sa, 29 April 2006 11:59
richard e white  
Richard Eney wrote:

> In article <4451CC16.16CC6150 [at] cox.net>,
> richard e white <chiphead [at] cox.net> wrote:
> >Magic_mom wrote:
> >
> >> I can kind of *Get it* that they need to use their wits and
> >> strengths in the task and must go in with nothing but the wand; using
> >> the wand to do what they need. Since Harry *needs* his broom, that
> >> makes it ok at that point? It isn't quite addressed in the book why
> >> he is allowed to obtain the broom, but then I guess I am probably
> >> over-thinking it. I should stick to washing dishes this morning.
> >
> >In a way yes you are over thinking it. Just think back on the rules they
> >were told and you will see that vary few things were out of bounds.
> >
> >I think one of the funny things is that harry and co do the same thing.
> >They think that ron and HG helping harry is wrong. But the rules say that
> >harry is not able to get or ask for help from the teachers. It never said
> >that they couldn't get help from other students.
>
> Right. I kept wondering why they were doing that.
>
> >But people do this all the time. I can't remember the name for it but
> >it is where the person hearing the rules but their own minds add more
> >that they think the rules said. People often make things harder than
> >they meant.
>
> Someone told me things like that are called
> "making an assumption not in evidence." I think the term comes
> from the language used in formal debating competitions.

That's the bunny.

>
>
> We all do it; it's part of how we survive in a complex world. If we had
> to wait until we had all the facts before acting, we'd never do anything.
> But we need to be alert to when we are making an assumption, and not just
> go by habit and what worked five years ago in a different situation. We
> also need to stay alert for new information when it is discovered.
>
> =Tamar

Yes you are right. I thought that more would be made out of the vagness of the
rules in tgof. But it turned out to be unimportant. The only one who ran into
problems with the exsact ruels was bagman.

--
Richard The Blind Typer
Lets Hear It For Talking Computers.
Re: GoF question [message #253648 ] Sa, 29 April 2006 12:01
richard e white  
Toon wrote:

> On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 01:02:30 -0700, richard e white <chiphead [at] cox.net>
> wrote:
>
> >They think that ron and HG helping harry is wrong. But the rules say that
> >harry is not able to get or ask for help from the teachers. It never said
> >that they couldn't get help from other students.
>
> Well, CrouchMoody had no problem giving Neville a book with a solution
> to Task 2 to give to Harry. I'm pretty sure he was given a list of Da
> Rules. If it was wrong to ask a student for help, he'd never give
> Neille the book.

Huh? You don't think the guy that was cheting would set up another way to
cheat?

--
Richard The Blind Typer
Lets Hear It For Talking Computers.
Re: GoF question [message #253670 ] Sa, 29 April 2006 20:21
Kish  
richard e white wrote:
> Toon wrote:
>
>
>>On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 01:02:30 -0700, richard e white <chiphead [at] cox.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>They think that ron and HG helping harry is wrong. But the rules say that
>>>harry is not able to get or ask for help from the teachers. It never said
>>>that they couldn't get help from other students.

Spoilers for PoA.

20

19

18

17

16

15

14

13

12

11

10

9

8

7

6

5

4

3

2

1


>>
>>Well, CrouchMoody had no problem giving Neville a book with a solution
>>to Task 2 to give to Harry. I'm pretty sure he was given a list of Da
>>Rules. If it was wrong to ask a student for help, he'd never give
>>Neille the book.
>
>
> Huh? You don't think the guy that was cheting would set up another way to
> cheat?

Toon may mean that while "Moody" initially counted on Harry asking
Neville for help, he would have known better if asking Neville for help
would have been cheating--not because "Moody" wouldn't cheat, but
because he would know Harry wouldn't.
Re: GoF question [message #253689 ] So, 30 April 2006 10:01
Toon  
On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 03:01:20 -0700, richard e white <chiphead [at] cox.net>
wrote:

>Toon wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 01:02:30 -0700, richard e white <chiphead [at] cox.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >They think that ron and HG helping harry is wrong. But the rules say that
>> >harry is not able to get or ask for help from the teachers. It never said
>> >that they couldn't get help from other students.
>>
>> Well, CrouchMoody had no problem giving Neville a book with a solution
>> to Task 2 to give to Harry. I'm pretty sure he was given a list of Da
>> Rules. If it was wrong to ask a student for help, he'd never give
>> Neille the book.
>
>Huh? You don't think the guy that was cheting would set up another way to
>cheat?

Cheating here and there is unnoticeable. Cheating too much is.
Helping someone too young to compete and was forced in will be
overlooked once or twice. The others have years of magical knowledge
to their advantage. It's only fair.

To go off canon to the movie, I'm sure Dumbeldor scolded CrochMoody
about pointing Harry in the right direction. The only reason he
didn't mind Hermione being there is because he knew she'd never dream
of helping Harry cheat.
Vorheriges Thema:FAQ: alt.fan.harry-potter Frequently Asked Questions
Nächstes Thema:For Jason Isaacs fans
Gehe zu:
  


aktuelle Zeit: Sa Mai 26 02:53:17 CEST 2012

Insgesamt benötigte Zeit, um die Seite zu erzeugen: 1,09065 Sekunden
.:: Startseite - Hinweise - Impressum ::.

Powered