| ....you will destroy all for which they have fought and suffered. [message #247129] |
Mi, 12 April 2006 00:56 |
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Did Luke?
RE
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| Re: ....you will destroy all for which they have fought and suffered. [message #247130 ] |
Mi, 12 April 2006 01:26 |
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_Ryan Evans_ spoke thusly on 11/04/2006 6:56 PM:
> Did Luke?
You first have to tell us your thoughts. ;-)
--
usenetsolon [at] gmail.com
Firefox 1.5 is out! <http://www.mozilla.com>
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| Re: ....you will destroy all for which they have fought and suffered. [message #247132 ] |
Mi, 12 April 2006 03:11 |
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Ryan Evans wrote:
> Did Luke?
Yes, because Leia had to go back and rescue his sorry ass.
--
OSI
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| Re: ....you will destroy all for which they have fought and suffered. [message #247134 ] |
Mi, 12 April 2006 12:46 |
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I see it from the point of view that that line of Yoda's refers to Luke
destroying himself - being tempted by the dark side, turning evil or being
killed by DarthVader - Dark Lord of the Sith, or dead - same thing, from a
certain Jedi's point of view....
Leia and Han & Chewie were captured/tortured by Vader and used as bait etc
in the hope that Luke would come and rescue them - and he did against the
advice of Yoda and Ben.
The 'all for which they had fought and suffered' was Luke himself - not the
wider issue of the Rebel Alliance fighting the Empire in the hope of
rebuilding the Republic - not quite on that scale - it was more personal
than that.
Forgive me if I've stated the obvious but that's my two cents.
"Ryan Evans" <ryanevans [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
news:fMCdnTURN_ucqaHZRVn-rg [at] comcast.com...
> Did Luke?
>
> RE
>
>
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| Re: ....you will destroy all for which they have fought and suffered. [message #247137 ] |
Mi, 12 April 2006 22:57 |
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In article
<443cda7f$0$32060$5a62ac22 [at] per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>, "Andrew
Murray" <admurray [at] iinet.net.au> wrote:
> I see it from the point of view that that line of Yoda's refers to Luke
> destroying himself - being tempted by the dark side, turning evil or being
> killed by DarthVader - Dark Lord of the Sith, or dead - same thing, from a
> certain Jedi's point of view....
>
> Leia and Han & Chewie were captured/tortured by Vader and used as bait etc
> in the hope that Luke would come and rescue them - and he did against the
> advice of Yoda and Ben.
>
> The 'all for which they had fought and suffered' was Luke himself - not the
> wider issue of the Rebel Alliance fighting the Empire in the hope of
> rebuilding the Republic - not quite on that scale - it was more personal
> than that.
Like many things in Star Wars, it means both, intertwined with each
other - Luke turning to the Dark Side AND the Rebels losing the battle
against the Empire.
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| Re: ....you will destroy all for which they have fought and suffered. [message #247216 ] |
Fr, 14 April 2006 17:25 |
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"OSI" <abuse [at] msn.com> wrote in message
news:etY_f.138362$Fw6.6075 [at] tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
> Ryan Evans wrote:
>
> > Did Luke?
>
> Yes, because Leia had to go back and rescue his sorry ass.
>
> --
> OSI
No way. In the end, Luke came Obiout a better person and Lando joined the
rebellion and played a major role in defeating the Empire. Yoda and Obi-Wan
were wrong.
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| Re: ....you will destroy all for which they have fought and suffered. [message #247217 ] |
Fr, 14 April 2006 17:35 |
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Tuco wrote:
> "OSI" <abuse [at] msn.com> wrote in message
> news:etY_f.138362$Fw6.6075 [at] tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
>> Ryan Evans wrote:
>>
>>> Did Luke?
>> Yes, because Leia had to go back and rescue his sorry ass.
>>
>> --
>> OSI
>
> No way. In the end, Luke came Obiout a better person and Lando joined the
> rebellion and played a major role in defeating the Empire. Yoda and Obi-Wan
> were wrong.
>
>
You could say they were being too specific. It was never determined in
the stories just how much they could predict.
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| Re: ....you will destroy all for which they have fought and suffered. [message #247292 ] |
Mo, 17 April 2006 07:36 |
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"Andrew Murray" <admurray [at] iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:443cda7f$0$32060$5a62ac22 [at] per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> The 'all for which they had fought and suffered' was Luke himself - not
> the wider issue of the Rebel Alliance fighting the Empire in the hope of
> rebuilding the Republic - not quite on that scale - it was more personal
> than that.
Yes indeed. That's certainly a good way of looking at it however Yoda and
Obi-Wan were very short-sighted and they didn't even consider the
possibility that Anakin was still buried deep within Darth Vader and that he
might emerge when confronted with his son. From their point of view there
was no way that any good could come from Luke's leaving for Bespin, better
to sacrifice the foot soldiers than risk the life of the last living Jedi
capable of taking out the Sith. So Luke was right in following his own
instincts and showed himself to be the complete opposite of his father by
being willing to give up his own life to save his friends.
--
"Where does he get those wonderful toys?"
http://esnips.com/web/MyStarWarsToys
http://groups.msn.com/MyStarWarsCollection/shoebox.msnw
http://www.alt.fan.starwars.freeservers.com/
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| Re: ....you will destroy all for which they have fought and suffered. [message #247297 ] |
Mo, 17 April 2006 14:52 |
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On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 18:46:22 +0800, "Andrew Murray"
<admurray [at] iinet.net.au> wrote:
>I see it from the point of view that that line of Yoda's refers to Luke
>destroying himself - being tempted by the dark side, turning evil or being
>killed by DarthVader - Dark Lord of the Sith, or dead - same thing, from a
>certain Jedi's point of view....
Yes, remember yoda said "told you he was your father did he? Very
unexpected"
I think that Yoda was surprised that Darth Vader didnt kill or turn
Luke to the dark side. This is where we see the first signs that Vader
has some good in him. Let's face it folks he could have easily killed
luke in their 1st encounter, but he chose not to.
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| Re: ....you will destroy all for which they have fought and suffered. [message #247308 ] |
Di, 18 April 2006 02:02 |
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_Tony Roma_ spoke thusly on 17/04/2006 8:52 AM:
> Yes, remember yoda said "told you he was your father did he? Very
> unexpected"
YODA: Told you, did he?
LUKE: Yes.
YODA: Unexpected this is, and unfortunate...
--
usenetsolon [at] gmail.com
Firefox 1.5 is out! <http://www.mozilla.com>
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| Re: ....you will destroy all for which they have fought and suffered. [message #247309 ] |
Di, 18 April 2006 02:20 |
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Tony Roma wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 18:46:22 +0800, "Andrew Murray"
> <admurray [at] iinet.net.au> wrote:
>
> >I see it from the point of view that that line of Yoda's refers to Luke
> >destroying himself - being tempted by the dark side, turning evil or being
> >killed by DarthVader - Dark Lord of the Sith, or dead - same thing, from a
> >certain Jedi's point of view....
>
> Yes, remember yoda said "told you he was your father did he? Very
> unexpected"
> I think that Yoda was surprised that Darth Vader didnt kill or turn
> Luke to the dark side. This is where we see the first signs that Vader
> has some good in him. Let's face it folks he could have easily killed
> luke in their 1st encounter, but he chose not to.
Vader did not hold back in his (first) encounter with Luke. Quite the
contrary, he fought Luke with his full strength to test whether the boy
was really worth turning to the dark side. Vader was admittedly quite
impressed that Luke had survived their encounter with only what Vader
himself describes in "Shadows of the Empire" as a "minor injury" (the
loss of a hand). Of course, in the end, Luke was beaten and Vader could
have easily killed him, but he chose not to, not because of altruism or
any love for his son, but rather for purely selfish reasons: he wanted
to use Luke as an asset to overthrow the emperor and rule the galaxy on
his own .
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