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Music / Musik » alt.fan.frank-zappa » Hot Rats Vinyl Mix
| Hot Rats Vinyl Mix [message #246039] |
So, 09 April 2006 00:51 |
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Hey Everyone,
Is the Hot Rats vinyl mix really that much different than the CD? If it
is, does anyone know where I can get it via torrent or would someone be
willing to hook me up? I own the CD and it sounds pretty good to me,
but someone mentioned to me once that the vinyl had a re-worked guitar
solo in one of the tracks and the CD added some elements like a flute
break, etc.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks!
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| Re: Hot Rats Vinyl Mix [message #246040 ] |
So, 09 April 2006 03:16 |
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My response won't be helpful in getting you a copy but it is an
acknowledgement about the different mixes. I listened to the LP
version of Hot Rats numerous times -thousands maybe?, who knows to the
point where I could reproduce the entire thing in my mind, even keeping
the timing right. When I first played the cd version I was perplexed
because there were so many different sections I thought my mind stopped
working. I like both versions but it has been months since I played
the LP so now I think I'll check it out again.
Others can tell you the specific differences, I don't have the brains
to put down the details. You'll love 'em both!
Marc
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| Re: Hot Rats Vinyl Mix [message #246041 ] |
So, 09 April 2006 05:10 |
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Analogdemon wrote:
> Is the Hot Rats vinyl mix really that much different than the CD?
Yes. A few examples: both Willie The Pimp and Gumbo Variations have
material in the guitar solo heard on the CD but not the LP, and vice
versa. On Willie The Pimp the CD intro has only violin and drums,
while the LP has violin, bass and drums. On Little Umbrellas the piano
is loud at the beginning on the CD but not the LP, and the recorder
section has a melody for four bars on the CD not heard on the LP.
I have the LP, but since my record player is on the inexpensive side I
suspect that someone else here could do a better job digitizing the
vinyl mix.
Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
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| Re: Hot Rats Vinyl Mix [message #246048 ] |
So, 09 April 2006 07:54 |
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"Analogdemon" schreef ...
> Hey Everyone,
>
> Is the Hot Rats vinyl mix really that much different than the CD? If it
> is, does anyone know where I can get it via torrent or would someone be
> willing to hook me up? I own the CD and it sounds pretty good to me, but
> someone mentioned to me once that the vinyl had a re-worked guitar solo in
> one of the tracks and the CD added some elements like a flute break, etc.
http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/vinylvscds/hotrats.htm l
AA
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| Re: Hot Rats Vinyl Mix [message #246049 ] |
So, 09 April 2006 08:22 |
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On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 18:51:43 -0400, Analogdemon
<analogdemon79 [at] netscape.net> wrote:
>Hey Everyone,
>
>Is the Hot Rats vinyl mix really that much different than the CD?
Yes.
Apart from lots of little "details" being different--different guitar
sections here, different drums there, etc.--the entire sound of the
album has changed. The version of "Hot Rats" on CD sounds like a very
produced, finished album; the version on LP, by contrast, sounds more
like a "relaxed," jazz fusion release. It's a hard difference to
quantify...it's more of a "you know it when you hear it" kind of
distinction.
It's well worth seeking out.
-D
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| Re: Hot Rats Vinyl Mix [message #246057 ] |
So, 09 April 2006 18:47 |
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The high end percussion on 'Willie the Pimp' and 'Peaches' obviously
more on the cd....I like both, even my cassette version with wow &
flutter.
Our High School band (me on drums-1979) played or struggled through &
recorded on lp a Frank Zappa 'Hot Rats' arrangement called 'Hairy
Medley'. I dug it out last night. It is like the Petite Wazoo on acid!
It's painful to listen through yet HILARIOUS! I gotta find away to get
it out to ya'll for a good laugh.
Thanks for the great Zappa info!
Y.W.
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| Re: Hot Rats Vinyl Mix [message #246061 ] |
So, 09 April 2006 21:32 |
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Robert Fripp is rereleasing his first solo album "Exposure"
in May as a 2 CD set with the original vinyl mix on the 1st CD
and the mid-'80s reissue and some bonus tracks on the other
CD.
Wouldn't that be a great idea for the ZFT? They could put out
a double CD version of HR with the vinyl mix, the mid-'80s mix, and
"Bognor Regis" plus hopefully some other previously unreleased
material.
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| Re: Hot Rats Vinyl Mix [message #246066 ] |
So, 09 April 2006 23:29 |
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On 9 Apr 2006 12:32:05 -0700, "dave" <chickyraptor [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>Robert Fripp is rereleasing his first solo album "Exposure"
>in May as a 2 CD set with the original vinyl mix on the 1st CD
>and the mid-'80s reissue and some bonus tracks on the other
>CD.
>
>Wouldn't that be a great idea for the ZFT? They could put out
>a double CD version of HR with the vinyl mix, the mid-'80s mix, and
>"Bognor Regis" plus hopefully some other previously unreleased
>material.
I think a far better idea would be to retire the CD remix (it's been
on disc for, what, 15 years now? It'll never be rare, really, and
it'll never sound better than it does), and to release a Hot Rats
jazz-like boxed-set.
Disc 1: The Complete Release Masters! The entire Hot Rats LP mix
(perhaps with the Gumbo introduction restored), plus the Lost Episodes
tracks, Bognor Regis, and maybe a few surprises.
Other discs: various tracking sessions, Extended edits! I'd be less
vague, but obviously the assortment of vault material available for
this album is a little unclear.
-D
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| Re: Hot Rats Vinyl Mix [message #246914 ] |
Mo, 10 April 2006 03:57 |
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dave wrote:
> Wouldn't that be a great idea for the ZFT? They could put out
> a double CD version of HR with the vinyl mix, the mid-'80s mix, and
> "Bognor Regis" plus hopefully some other previously unreleased
> material.
>
I'd love to see WOIIFTM and CWRATJ done like that too. Have the
original vinyl mix on disc 1, and the remix, live versions, sessions,
alternate versions, etc. on disc 2. That would rule.
I'm one of the few people who actually like both versions of those
albums. I think the original mixes and the remixes both have their
merits and it'd be nice to have each album as a 2 CD package with both
mixes.
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| Re: Hot Rats Vinyl Mix [message #246920 ] |
Mo, 10 April 2006 14:58 |
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surely
"you take me in the mailing"
(is it still alive)
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| Re: Hot Rats Vinyl Mix [message #246922 ] |
Mo, 10 April 2006 17:43 |
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Analogdemon wrote:
> Hey Everyone,
>
> Is the Hot Rats vinyl mix really that much different than the CD? If it
> is, does anyone know where I can get it via torrent or would someone be
> willing to hook me up? I own the CD and it sounds pretty good to me,
> but someone mentioned to me once that the vinyl had a re-worked guitar
> solo in one of the tracks and the CD added some elements like a flute
> break, etc.
When I had indicated in a previous post that you should decide if you
like the CDs first before seeking out vinyl, Hot Rats was the album
that I had in mind.
Having said that, Hot Rats is the most profound remix of an album that
Frank ever did for CD without replacing basic tracks with new ones.
At it's most simplistic, the CD has a fuller sound with piano and horns
mixed louder, causing the guitar sounds to blend in more. On the
vinyl, the guitar sound and the drum acoustics are much more
pronounced, but the other instruments pushed back into the mix, in some
cases sounding murky or even inaudible. The vinyl seems to have a
wider stereo image because the mix doesn't sound as "busy" as the CD
mix does.
Attempts to decide which version is better have been futile. With the
exception of those who simply hate the CD, most people acknowledge that
both versions have their good points. (Unlike CWR&TJ, where almost
everyone, to a person, hates the CD.)
The main issue with the CD is that long time fans knew the vinyl
release inside and out. It is one of Frank's classics. As such, they
did not appreciate the album being remixed for CD. What Frank should
have done is release a two-CD set with the original vinyl mix on one CD
(which he already had a digital master for, as it was used to make the
Old Masters record) and the remix on the other CD, perhaps including
bonus tracks. (Deep Purple's Anniversary Edition of Machine Head is a
good example of this type of release.) Had Frank done this, everyone
would have loved the release instantly. Instead, he replaced the
original with the remix. That did not sit well with some fans.
Whether or not someone is able to provide you with a copy or not
immediately, my advice to you is to be patient. You will come across
it eventually. There are various files floating around with the vinyl
mix on it. The best thing to do is get really familiar with the CD,
that way it will be easier for you to pick out the differences when you
finally do hear the vinyl.
IMO, the CD is still a great representation of Hot Rats and, obviously,
it is what Frank intended, even if he was practicing his own brand of
revisionist history. Nevertheless, the vinyl mix is a great listen, as
well.
--
Mike E.
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| Re: Hot Rats Vinyl Mix [message #246923 ] |
Mo, 10 April 2006 21:23 |
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dave wrote:
> Robert Fripp is rereleasing his first solo album "Exposure"
> in May as a 2 CD set with the original vinyl mix on the 1st CD
> and the mid-'80s reissue and some bonus tracks on the other
> CD.
>
> Wouldn't that be a great idea for the ZFT? They could put out
> a double CD version of HR with the vinyl mix, the mid-'80s mix, and
> "Bognor Regis" plus hopefully some other previously unreleased
> material.
Absolutely.
I hope Fripp's release does well because it is almost the perfect
prototype for what the ZFT could do for Hot Rats, not to mention
WOIIFTM, CWR&TJ, Sleep Dirt, and TMFU.
BTW, for those who know the history of Fripp's Exposure, it appears
that the bonus tracks are the original Daryl Hall sung versions of
"Exposure", "Disengage", "Chicago", "Mary", and "NY3". Totally cool.
--
Mike E.
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| Re: Hot Rats Vinyl Mix [message #246924 ] |
Mo, 10 April 2006 22:57 |
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On 10 Apr 2006 12:23:10 -0700, "Mike Espinoza" <espinoza [at] yahoo.com>
wrote:
>I hope Fripp's release does well because it is almost the perfect
>prototype for what the ZFT could do for Hot Rats, not to mention
>WOIIFTM, CWR&TJ, Sleep Dirt, and TMFU.
I still respectfully disagree. That's what should have been done
originally, but at this juncture they've been in print for upwards of
15 years, and--as digital remixes to begin with--will not sound much
different if reissued. Consequently, I think most (with the possible
exception of Freak Out!) should be retired next time around, in favor
of NEW STUFF.
-D
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| Re: Hot Rats Vinyl Mix [message #246925 ] |
Mo, 10 April 2006 23:36 |
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Animal Index wrote:
> On 10 Apr 2006 12:23:10 -0700, "Mike Espinoza" <espinoza [at] yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I hope Fripp's release does well because it is almost the perfect
> >prototype for what the ZFT could do for Hot Rats, not to mention
> >WOIIFTM, CWR&TJ, Sleep Dirt, and TMFU.
>
> I still respectfully disagree. That's what should have been done
> originally, but at this juncture they've been in print for upwards of
> 15 years, and--as digital remixes to begin with--will not sound much
> different if reissued. Consequently, I think most (with the possible
> exception of Freak Out!) should be retired next time around, in favor
> of NEW STUFF.
You're entitled to your opinion. I see no reason to retire the current
mix, however. There are parts of it that I prefer to the vinyl mix. I
think both should be available to newbies without having to resort to
ebay.
Besides, we are talking about a 2-disc set here. Even with both
versions of the album, there is still over an hour left across the two
discs for bonus tracks. That should be sufficient for new stuff.
---
Mike E.
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| Re: Hot Rats Vinyl Mix [message #246926 ] |
Mo, 10 April 2006 23:45 |
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"monastery" schreef ...
> surely
> "you take me in the mailing"
> (is it still alive)
Noop, inmiddels al weer 5 jaar In 't Wild. www.intwild.nl
Ha Theo!;)-
AA
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| Re: Hot Rats Vinyl Mix [message #246928 ] |
Di, 11 April 2006 02:37 |
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On 10 Apr 2006 14:36:07 -0700, "Mike Espinoza" <espinoza [at] yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
>You're entitled to your opinion. I see no reason to retire the current
>mix, however. There are parts of it that I prefer to the vinyl mix. I
>think both should be available to newbies without having to resort to
>ebay.
Haha...yeah, I guess. Part of my reasoning is in this Brave New World
of FLACronism, it'll never be truly unavailable.
>
>Besides, we are talking about a 2-disc set here.
*sticks fingers in ears*
NO. We're talking about a 5-DISC BOXED SET.
-D
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| Re: Hot Rats Vinyl Mix [message #246929 ] |
Di, 11 April 2006 05:30 |
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On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 20:37:04 -0400, Animal Index <ksg1-2 [at] yifan.nyet>
wrote:
>On 10 Apr 2006 14:36:07 -0700, "Mike Espinoza" <espinoza [at] yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>>
>>You're entitled to your opinion. I see no reason to retire the current
>>mix, however. There are parts of it that I prefer to the vinyl mix. I
>>think both should be available to newbies without having to resort to
>>ebay.
>
>Haha...yeah, I guess. Part of my reasoning is in this Brave New World
>of FLACronism, it'll never be truly unavailable.
>
>>
>>Besides, we are talking about a 2-disc set here.
>*sticks fingers in ears*
>
>NO. We're talking about a 5-DISC BOXED SET.
"The Return Of The Son Of The History And Collected Improvisations Of
Hot Rats"
Works for me.
--
Mike E.
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| Re: Hot Rats Vinyl Mix [message #246931 ] |
Di, 11 April 2006 09:09 |
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He Tal,..
mooi siteje!!
your nose is on your chin...(_(-;;
--
http://tinyurl.com/apjk5
http://tinyurl.com/4s74f
http://tinyurl.com/7eq8n
"Antal" <chronology [at] keneally.cRRRom> schreef in bericht
news:443ad205$0$811$3a628fcd [at] textreader.nntp.hccnet.nl...
> "monastery" schreef ...
> > surely
> > "you take me in the mailing"
> > (is it still alive)
>
> Noop, inmiddels al weer 5 jaar In 't Wild. www.intwild.nl
>
> Ha Theo!;)-
>
> AA
>
>
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| Re: Hot Rats Vinyl Mix [message #248019 ] |
Mi, 12 April 2006 18:15 |
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Animal Index wrote:
> I still respectfully disagree. That's what should have been done
> originally, but at this juncture they've been in print for upwards of
> 15 years, and--as digital remixes to begin with--will not sound much
> different if reissued. Consequently, I think most (with the possible
> exception of Freak Out!) should be retired next time around, in favor
> of NEW STUFF.
New stuff? He's dead, Animal. DEAD. There ain't no new stuff.
R
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| Re: Hot Rats Vinyl Mix [message #248020 ] |
Mi, 12 April 2006 18:18 |
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Mike Espinoza wrote:
<snip>
What Frank should have done
<snip>
Let's all be grateful that FZ wasn't more "market-driven" than he was.
Rolf
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