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Miscellaneous / Verschiedenes » alt.fan.james-bond » CR theme song
CR theme song [message #240374] Di, 14 März 2006 18:58
David A McIntee  
Saw a rumour on another forum that Tina Turner has been asked to give it a
go. There was no source cited, though, so I dunno how reliable it beyond
Martin Campbell having hired her for his previous Bond...


--
Redemption 07 - B5 B7 and Beyond, 23-25 February 2007.
http://www.smof.com/redemption

http://lonemagpie.livejournal.com
Re: CR theme song [message #240379 ] Mi, 15 März 2006 01:23
phil.gerrard1  
David wrote:

> Saw a rumour on another forum that Tina Turner has been asked to give it a
> go. There was no source cited, though, so I dunno how reliable it beyond
> Martin Campbell having hired her for his previous Bond...

I thought she was semi-retired now? There hasn't been an album from
her for years, and she did a farewell tour a few years ago - although
that doesn't mean she won't record again, or indeed change her mind and
decide to return to live performance.

It would seem a slightly odd choice anyway (a) because she isn't
exactly a high-profile figure these days and (b) because she doesn't
seem to me to be a 'definitive' or 'classic' Bond theme performer in
the way that Shirley Bassey was.

What the heck, I don't mind too much as long as it isn't Tony bleedin'
Christie.

Best

Phil
Re: CR theme song [message #240382 ] Mi, 15 März 2006 02:19
Will Traynor  
"phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com" <phil.gerrard1 [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1142382233.540795.298320 [at] i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> David wrote:
>
>> Saw a rumour on another forum that Tina Turner has been asked to give it
>> a
>> go. There was no source cited, though, so I dunno how reliable it beyond
>> Martin Campbell having hired her for his previous Bond...
>
> I thought she was semi-retired now? There hasn't been an album from
> her for years, and she did a farewell tour a few years ago - although
> that doesn't mean she won't record again, or indeed change her mind and
> decide to return to live performance.
>
> It would seem a slightly odd choice anyway (a) because she isn't
> exactly a high-profile figure these days and (b) because she doesn't
> seem to me to be a 'definitive' or 'classic' Bond theme performer in
> the way that Shirley Bassey was.
>
> What the heck, I don't mind too much as long as it isn't Tony bleedin'
> Christie.
>
> Best
>
> Phil
>

Goodness knows they need a good Bond song; the last few have been quite
forgettable.
Re: CR theme song [message #240385 ] Mi, 15 März 2006 04:40
mlawrenc  
>quite forgettable..


Except maybe Surrender from TND? KD and Arnold...I remember it still..

Regards,
Matt
Re: CR theme song [message #240390 ] Mi, 15 März 2006 07:31
dgates  
On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 20:19:26 -0500, "Will" <willt65 [at] comcast.net>
wrote:

>
>"phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com" <phil.gerrard1 [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>news:1142382233.540795.298320 [at] i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> David wrote:
>>
>>> Saw a rumour on another forum that Tina Turner has been asked to give it
>>> a
>>> go. There was no source cited, though, so I dunno how reliable it beyond
>>> Martin Campbell having hired her for his previous Bond...
>>
>> I thought she was semi-retired now? There hasn't been an album from
>> her for years, and she did a farewell tour a few years ago - although
>> that doesn't mean she won't record again, or indeed change her mind and
>> decide to return to live performance.
>>
>> It would seem a slightly odd choice anyway (a) because she isn't
>> exactly a high-profile figure these days and (b) because she doesn't
>> seem to me to be a 'definitive' or 'classic' Bond theme performer in
>> the way that Shirley Bassey was.
>>
>> What the heck, I don't mind too much as long as it isn't Tony bleedin'
>> Christie.
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Phil
>>
>
>Goodness knows they need a good Bond song; the last few have been quite
>forgettable.


I love to disagree, but...

I think that... Well, I'll just speak for myself...

Often I think that I'm comparing how impressed I was with Bond between
the ages between 8 and 13 to how impressed I've been between the ages
of 20 and 40, and that's not a fair comparison.

That said, if I try to shake off that "No Bond movies have ever been
able to rival the first ones I saw" nostalgia, I would say that I find
Sheryl Crow's and Madonna's songs as good as, say, Tom Jones's and
Matt Munro's songs.
Re: CR theme song [message #240407 ] Mi, 15 März 2006 15:04
Will Traynor  
"Matt L" <mlawrenc [at] earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1142394014.747626.116090 [at] j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>quite forgettable..
>
>
> Except maybe Surrender from TND? KD and Arnold...I remember it still..
>
> Regards,
> Matt
>

Yes, but unfortunately it wasn't the official theme of the movie.
Re: CR theme song [message #240409 ] Mi, 15 März 2006 15:17
phil.gerrard1  
Matt, then Will wrote:


> > Except maybe Surrender from TND? KD and Arnold...I remember it still..

> Yes, but unfortunately it wasn't the official theme of the movie.

True, but Arnold wanted it to be. He was also reportedly unhappy with
Madonna's DAD. This raises another problem, which is that unlike
Barry, Arnold's not been able to work material from the main theme song
into his scores: with the exception of TWINE, he's had other people's
work foisted on him. That makes quite a difference to the feel of the
films, since Barry's scores relied quite heavily on restating and
reworking ideas from the title songs. If 'Surrender' had appeared at
the beginning of TND rather than at the end I think the film would have
felt rather different.

Best

Phil
Re: CR theme song [message #240423 ] Mi, 15 März 2006 19:06
Mark  
Bite your tongue. Madonna's theme song to DAD was pure, unadulterated
crap. It is the first Bond soundtrack that I did not buy, as a direct
result. The title song is more unlistenable than those for TMWTGG and
OP combined.
Re: CR theme song [message #240442 ] Do, 16 März 2006 01:40
Will Traynor  
"phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com" <phil.gerrard1 [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1142432276.282638.254720 [at] u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> Matt, then Will wrote:
>
>
>> > Except maybe Surrender from TND? KD and Arnold...I remember it still..
>
>> Yes, but unfortunately it wasn't the official theme of the movie.
>
> True, but Arnold wanted it to be. He was also reportedly unhappy with
> Madonna's DAD. This raises another problem, which is that unlike
> Barry, Arnold's not been able to work material from the main theme song
> into his scores: with the exception of TWINE, he's had other people's
> work foisted on him. That makes quite a difference to the feel of the
> films, since Barry's scores relied quite heavily on restating and
> reworking ideas from the title songs. If 'Surrender' had appeared at
> the beginning of TND rather than at the end I think the film would have
> felt rather different.
>
> Best
>
> Phil
>

I read the same thing a few years ago. Arnold was right on the money.
Madonna's DAD theme song was one of the worst of the series, IMHO. And I
completely agree about the TND 'Surrender' song. K.D. Lang did a tremendous
job on that song. How could EON make that song secondary? It's mistakes like
that that make me wonder who is calling the shots over there.
Re: CR theme song [message #240444 ] Do, 16 März 2006 02:01
phil.gerrard1  
Will wrote:

> It's mistakes like
> that that make me wonder who is calling the shots over there.

IMHO the answer to that lies somewhere betwen 'everybody' and 'nobody'
:-) . Bond films are made by committee, probably more so now than ever
before, and you know the old joke about a camel being a horse that was
designed by a committee. IMHO it's no longer possible to assign the
success or failure of any given element of a Bond film to one
individual, or even three or four people.

There's an old saying, with which I kind of agree, that a team is only
as good as its weakest member. When that team consists of hundreds of
people, apportioning blame can get a little tricky...

Best

Phil
Re: CR theme song [message #240447 ] Do, 16 März 2006 02:26
Will Traynor  
"phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com" <phil.gerrard1 [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1142470869.879215.161830 [at] z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Will wrote:
>
>> It's mistakes like
>> that that make me wonder who is calling the shots over there.
>
> IMHO the answer to that lies somewhere betwen 'everybody' and 'nobody'
> :-) . Bond films are made by committee, probably more so now than ever
> before, and you know the old joke about a camel being a horse that was
> designed by a committee. IMHO it's no longer possible to assign the
> success or failure of any given element of a Bond film to one
> individual, or even three or four people.
>
> There's an old saying, with which I kind of agree, that a team is only
> as good as its weakest member. When that team consists of hundreds of
> people, apportioning blame can get a little tricky...
>
> Best
>
> Phil
>

But Phil, come on.....how hard is it to figure out what is the better song?
lol...I mean, we are not experts and we figured it out !! lol
Re: CR theme song [message #240462 ] Do, 16 März 2006 12:06
phil.gerrard1  
Will wrote:

> But Phil, come on.....how hard is it to figure out what is the better song?
> lol...I mean, we are not experts and we figured it out !! lol

Yeah, but that's exactly where the committee nature of the Bond films
kicks in. Arnold clearly thought that 'Surrender' deserved to be the
theme tune, but somebody - we don't know whether it was somebody from
EON or MGM, or, for that matter, how many people were involved with the
decision - vetoed it in favour of Sheryl Crow's effort, a decision
which was almost certainly taken on commercial grounds. It's nothing
to do with which was the better song: it's about which singer had a
higher profile at the time and was more likely to be of publicity value
to the film.

Best

Phil
Re: CR theme song [message #240467 ] Do, 16 März 2006 12:15
phil.gerrard1  
Regarding the Tina Turner rumour, here's what the good folks at MI6
have to say:

http://www.mi6.co.uk/news/index.php?itemid=3483

That final bit of the Sun story has the dubious honour of being the
most obviously fabricated 'insider' quote I've ever seen.

Best

Phil
Re: CR theme song [message #240468 ] Do, 16 März 2006 12:38
Mac  
phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com wrote:

> Regarding the Tina Turner rumour, here's what the good folks at MI6
> have to say:
>
> http://www.mi6.co.uk/news/index.php?itemid=3483
>
> That final bit of the Sun story has the dubious honour of being the
> most obviously fabricated 'insider' quote I've ever seen.

All stems from Barbzilla's quote. If anything, one could infer U2
were going to be asked this time from what she actually said.
--
--Mac
Re: CR theme song [message #240480 ] Do, 16 März 2006 16:24
Will Traynor  
"phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com" <phil.gerrard1 [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1142507173.506436.266560 [at] p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> Will wrote:
>
>> But Phil, come on.....how hard is it to figure out what is the better
>> song?
>> lol...I mean, we are not experts and we figured it out !! lol
>
> Yeah, but that's exactly where the committee nature of the Bond films
> kicks in. Arnold clearly thought that 'Surrender' deserved to be the
> theme tune, but somebody - we don't know whether it was somebody from
> EON or MGM, or, for that matter, how many people were involved with the
> decision - vetoed it in favour of Sheryl Crow's effort, a decision
> which was almost certainly taken on commercial grounds. It's nothing
> to do with which was the better song: it's about which singer had a
> higher profile at the time and was more likely to be of publicity value
> to the film.
>
> Best
>
> Phil
>

Well, I would hope they realize that a good theme song helps the movie, in
terms of generating publicity, soundtrack sales and even movie tickets. In
this case, I'm not sure how much Sheryl Crow brought to the table, with that
tepid song.
Re: CR theme song [message #240481 ] Do, 16 März 2006 17:09
phil.gerrard1  
Will wrote:

> Well, I would hope they realize that a good theme song helps the movie, in
> terms of generating publicity, soundtrack sales and even movie tickets. In
> this case, I'm not sure how much Sheryl Crow brought to the table, with that
> tepid song.

I don't know about that. Madonna's DAD reached number 3 in the UK and
number 2 in the US charts, making it the highest-charting Bond theme
since AVTAK. (Credit to Matthew Newton's site,
http://www.mjnewton.demon.co.uk/bond/index.htm, for this info.) DAD
(the song) has received more flak from Bond fans than almost any other
I can think of, and yet its success would suggest that it probably
helped to sell soundtrack albums and generate publicity for the film.
Would a better song by a less well-known singer have done the same?
Writing a great Bond song is no guarantee of chart success, but hiring
a currently hot singer or band to record the theme increases your
chances greatly. In 1997 Sheryl Crow was a much hotter property than k
d lang, and therefore far more likely to receive radio and TV exposure
for her new single.

It seems that you're suggesting that a good song is more likely to
appeal to a mass audience than a bad one, and you only have to listen
to a few minutes of mainstream commercial radio to realise that ain't
necessarily so... :-)

Best

Phil
Re: CR theme song [message #240487 ] Do, 16 März 2006 19:02
Will Traynor  
"phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com" <phil.gerrard1 [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1142525372.540715.319070 [at] j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Will wrote:
>
>> Well, I would hope they realize that a good theme song helps the movie,
>> in
>> terms of generating publicity, soundtrack sales and even movie tickets.
>> In
>> this case, I'm not sure how much Sheryl Crow brought to the table, with
>> that
>> tepid song.
>
> I don't know about that. Madonna's DAD reached number 3 in the UK and
> number 2 in the US charts, making it the highest-charting Bond theme
> since AVTAK. (Credit to Matthew Newton's site,
> http://www.mjnewton.demon.co.uk/bond/index.htm, for this info.) DAD
> (the song) has received more flak from Bond fans than almost any other
> I can think of, and yet its success would suggest that it probably
> helped to sell soundtrack albums and generate publicity for the film.
> Would a better song by a less well-known singer have done the same?

I don't think it's fair to compare Madonna with Sheryl Crow. Madonna fans
will buy anything by her, whether it's junk or not. The same goes for
Britney Spears and a few other superstar artists. But I agree that having a
hot artist in itself can help to generate sales, etc. That was true in
Madonna's case. But Sheryl Crow is not in Madonna's category. And in her
case, I would argue that the song did not generate much publicity for the
film. I remember when it came out and it didn't get much airplay in the
states.

> Writing a great Bond song is no guarantee of chart success, but hiring
> a currently hot singer or band to record the theme increases your
> chances greatly. In 1997 Sheryl Crow was a much hotter property than k
> d lang, and therefore far more likely to receive radio and TV exposure
> for her new single.
>

Again, in this case, I would have liked to see how 'Surrender' would have
done on the charts, compared to the official theme. We will never know, of
course. Crow's song reached #35 on the Billboard charts and lasted in the
top 40 for two weeks - not exactly stellar numbers for a Bond theme. Would
'Surrender' have done better, even though it was recorded by a less hot
property?


> It seems that you're suggesting that a good song is more likely to
> appeal to a mass audience than a bad one, and you only have to listen
> to a few minutes of mainstream commercial radio to realise that ain't
> necessarily so... :-)
>

You got me there :-)

> Best
>
> Phil
>
Re: CR theme song [message #240683 ] Mo, 20 März 2006 17:24
Draugnar  
Actually, I could handle U2 doing a Bond theme, although I still would like
to see Evanescence eventually get a shot at one. Amy Lee's killer voice
would just lend itself so well. In fact, she is very reminiscent of the
singer for the theme to 007: Nightfire (the video game).

"Mac" <see.mac [at] SPAMLESSvirgin.net> wrote in message
news:47t11jFgomvvU1 [at] individual.net...
> phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com wrote:
>
>> Regarding the Tina Turner rumour, here's what the good folks at MI6
>> have to say:
>>
>> http://www.mi6.co.uk/news/index.php?itemid=3483
>>
>> That final bit of the Sun story has the dubious honour of being the
>> most obviously fabricated 'insider' quote I've ever seen.
>
> All stems from Barbzilla's quote. If anything, one could infer U2
> were going to be asked this time from what she actually said.
> --
> --Mac
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: CR theme song [message #240759 ] Di, 21 März 2006 17:44
Eric Grayson  
In article <1142432276.282638.254720 [at] u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>,
<"phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com"> wrote:
> He [Arnold] was also reportedly unhappy with
> Madonna's DAD. This raises another problem, which is that unlike
> Barry, Arnold's not been able to work material from the main theme song
> into his scores: with the exception of TWINE, he's had other people's
> work foisted on him. That makes quite a difference to the feel of the
> films, since Barry's scores relied quite heavily on restating and
> reworking ideas from the title songs. If 'Surrender' had appeared at
> the beginning of TND rather than at the end I think the film would have
> felt rather different.

OK, you've hit on one of the big reasons that the Barry scores are
better and one of the reasons that Barry isn't doing the scores
anymore. Barry always insisted on being at least a co-composer on the
main songs so that he could integrate the ideas into the score. a-ha
apparently didn't like his musical style and complained that he was an
out-of-touch old fogey who didn't help. It escalated into something
that was a near-lawsuit (if it didn't end up being one).

This is odd, given that I believe that TLD is one of Barry's better
scores and has a lot of thematic continuity in it. When the composer
is just given a main theme to use that he didn't write, it's difficult
for him to integrate musical ideas in it for the film.

It's bad enough that they changed Thunderball from Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang
Bang (which is integrated into the score while the Thunderball theme
barely is), but DAD has no thematic continuity at all. (Also, DAD has
unquestionably the worst Bond theme of them all).

I reject the idea that Barry isn't interested in doing Bond scores at
all anymore. He's been more than genial at showing up for Bond
reunions, etc, much more than Connery has been. I think he's not
interested in doing Bond scores in a vacuum, and I don't blame him. If
he got the opportunity to do a score the way HE wants to do it again,
maybe he'd do one again. And maybe he could pave the way for someone
to be a real musical director for a Bond picture instead of being just
a hired hand who does incidental music.

Eric
Re: CR theme song [message #240767 ] Di, 21 März 2006 18:56
phil.gerrard1  
Eric Grayson wrote:

> I reject the idea that Barry isn't interested in doing Bond scores at
> all anymore. He's been more than genial at showing up for Bond
> reunions, etc, much more than Connery has been. I think he's not
> interested in doing Bond scores in a vacuum, and I don't blame him. If
> he got the opportunity to do a score the way HE wants to do it again,
> maybe he'd do one again. And maybe he could pave the way for someone
> to be a real musical director for a Bond picture instead of being just
> a hired hand who does incidental music.

Well, those are some big 'maybe's. The fact that Barry's still on good
terms with EON colleagues doesn't mean he'd want to come back to the
series any more than Dalton or Moore would, and I don't see that
there's much evidence that Barry would want to go back to scoring Bond
even if the offer you describe was made. (I believe he was approached
for TND and declined, suggesting David Arnold instead, although I grant
there's no way of knowing whether he turned down the offer because it
wasn't on terms he liked or because he simply didn't want to do any
more Bond scores. He's given the latter answer in interviews, but of
course that might not be the whole story, and the two reasons are not,
in any case, mutually exclusive.)

In addition, he's 73 now and his work rate has slowed noticeably.
Where he used quite happily to do several films a year, these days
several years can go by without a new Barry score appearing - in fact,
as far as film work is concerned one could almost describe him as
semi-retired, and he's notably more choosy than he used to be. Would
he, at this stage in his life, and closer to the end of his career than
the beginning, want to return to something he left behind nearly twenty
years ago? Somehow I doubt it.

Best

Phil
Re: CR theme song [message #240777 ] Di, 21 März 2006 21:48
phil.gerrard1  
A quick follow-up to my last post: a quick websearch came up with an
article claiming that Barry turned down TND because he couldn't get the
creative control he wanted and also because MGM weren't prepared to
stump up the cash he wanted. This was, however, nearly a decade ago,
when he was still an active film composer, producing two or three
scores a year. Judging by imdb, he hasn't done a full film score for
five years now, so he's obviously being a lot more choosy about his
assignments as he gets older.

I knew there was another Barry interview I'd been thinking about, and
on getting home I found it. It's from 'Mojo', 1997, and in the
interview he said that he was tied up with another project at the time
of LALD, but was happy for George Martin to do it, because, in Barry's
words 'Bond had lost his edge by then'. Of course he went on to do a
few more, but at that time in his life he almost certainly couldn't
afford to turn down a regular paid gig (I seem to recall that Barry had
some financial troubles during the '70s and '80s). These days, the
fact that he's taking on less work would seem to suggest that he *can*
afford turn down jobs which don't appeal to him, and if that's the way
he feels about Bond - and let's not forget his comments about the more
recent movies haven't been entirely flattering - I can't particularly
imagine him wanting to return.

Best

Phil
Re: CR theme song [message #240783 ] Mi, 22 März 2006 00:45
Eric Grayson  
Barry had some financial problems in the 70s as did most high-income
British citizens. He had some tax issues and could not set foot on
British soil for some years due to the tax laws there. This is why he
did not do scores for TSWLM and FYEO.

I think that Barry might just like the direction EON is trying to take
with CR and be interested if he were asked again. Columbia isn't MGM
and might OK the kind of money he wants. I think it's time to ask him
again. And by the way, he needs to have creative control on the music.
He's proved over and over again that he knows what he's doing.

I think Moore would love to return and do Bond again but he's too old.
This is, happily, not an issue with composers, unless they get unable
to write music anymore.

It's time to get Bond back to musical basics, too. I need to hear at
least one more really good Vic Flick guitar riff at the beginning of a
Bond picture.

Eric

In article <1142974092.601926.131680 [at] u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>,
<"phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com"> wrote:

> A quick follow-up to my last post: a quick websearch came up with an
> article claiming that Barry turned down TND because he couldn't get the
> creative control he wanted and also because MGM weren't prepared to
> stump up the cash he wanted. This was, however, nearly a decade ago,
> when he was still an active film composer, producing two or three
> scores a year. Judging by imdb, he hasn't done a full film score for
> five years now, so he's obviously being a lot more choosy about his
> assignments as he gets older.
>
> I knew there was another Barry interview I'd been thinking about, and
> on getting home I found it. It's from 'Mojo', 1997, and in the
> interview he said that he was tied up with another project at the time
> of LALD, but was happy for George Martin to do it, because, in Barry's
> words 'Bond had lost his edge by then'. Of course he went on to do a
> few more, but at that time in his life he almost certainly couldn't
> afford to turn down a regular paid gig (I seem to recall that Barry had
> some financial troubles during the '70s and '80s). These days, the
> fact that he's taking on less work would seem to suggest that he *can*
> afford turn down jobs which don't appeal to him, and if that's the way
> he feels about Bond - and let's not forget his comments about the more
> recent movies haven't been entirely flattering - I can't particularly
> imagine him wanting to return.
>
> Best
>
> Phil
>
Re: CR theme song [message #240784 ] Mi, 22 März 2006 01:12
phil.gerrard1  
Eric wrote:

> I think that Barry might just like the direction EON is trying to take
> with CR and be interested if he were asked again. Columbia isn't MGM
> and might OK the kind of money he wants. I think it's time to ask him
> again.

Fair enough. I think it's too late to do so for CR - it would
effectively involve firing Arnold, which would be an awkward move - but
I wouldn't at all object to such a move for Bond 22, and I doubt Arnold
would either.

> And by the way, he needs to have creative control on the music.
> He's proved over and over again that he knows what he's doing.

Oh, of course, and that's a point I've never debated. In fact, I think
Arnold's scores might well have been stronger had he been given full
creative control and allowed to choose or write the themes for all of
his three films. If he'd had a song like his own 'Play Dead' which he
could have incorporated into the score of the movie, it might well have
harked back to the Barry years. As it was, he had theme songs imposed
on him at a late date and couldn't have achieved the Barry-esque unity
of tone which was such a strength in the previous films - and if he'd
had complete creative control, I'd bet any money that's what he would
have wanted to do.

> It's time to get Bond back to musical basics, too. I need to hear at
> least one more really good Vic Flick guitar riff at the beginning of a
> Bond picture.

This I'm not quite so sure about. Flick was a great guitarist in his
day, but his playing style - flatwound strings, semi-acoustic, clean
picking, no hammering, pulling, or string-bending - was already pretty
dated by the mid-1960s. Using him again would be a nice gesture, but
would, in itself, sound very retro, unless his style was somehow
integrated with more modern sounds.

Best

Phil
Re: CR theme song [message #240798 ] Mi, 22 März 2006 04:21
Eric Grayson  
In article <1142986358.826763.263040 [at] e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
<"phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com"> wrote:
> I think
> Arnold's scores might well have been stronger had he been given full
> creative control and allowed to choose or write the themes for all of
> his three films. If he'd had a song like his own 'Play Dead' which he
> could have incorporated into the score of the movie, it might well have
> harked back to the Barry years. As it was, he had theme songs imposed
> on him at a late date and couldn't have achieved the Barry-esque unity
> of tone which was such a strength in the previous films - and if he'd
> had complete creative control, I'd bet any money that's what he would
> have wanted to do.

I agree. I like Arnold's work often better in his non-Bond
compositions than in the Bond films themselves. Arnold's music for
Stargate is actually quite good, integrated through the film, etc.
This points up a gripe I have with the post-Albert Broccoli films in
general.

Broccoli had a tendency to hire good people and then let them alone and
allow them do their jobs. Wilson and Barbara like to micromanage too
much, which gives the whole film a consistent, flat feel. It's
basically what Brosnan has complained about, and it's a problem that
the last several films have had. The scripts are like this, the music
is like this, the acting is like this, and the directing is like this.

I'd like to see Mr. Wilson loosen up a little and allow his creative
people to be creative. Not that Broccoli always did the right thing by
his creative staff, but he seemed to get better results.

Eric
Re: CR theme song [message #242505 ] Mi, 22 März 2006 11:59
phil.gerrard1  
Eric wrote:

> This points up a gripe I have with the post-Albert Broccoli films in
> general.
>
> Broccoli had a tendency to hire good people and then let them alone and
> allow them do their jobs. Wilson and Barbara like to micromanage too
> much, which gives the whole film a consistent, flat feel. It's
> basically what Brosnan has complained about, and it's a problem that
> the last several films have had. The scripts are like this, the music
> is like this, the acting is like this, and the directing is like this.
>
> I'd like to see Mr. Wilson loosen up a little and allow his creative
> people to be creative. Not that Broccoli always did the right thing by
> his creative staff, but he seemed to get better results.

I'm not convinced that the management style of which you complain is
completely down to Barbara Broccoli and Michael Wilson. The more I
learn about the history of the EON films, the more it strikes me that
since the 1960s UA/MGM have been increasingly 'hands-on' in their
approach to the Bond films, and certainly they've been the driving
force behind some major decisions: the rehiring of Connery, the sacking
of Glen and Maibaum, Dalton's premature departure from the role, etc.
The Sony lawsuit aside, it strikes me that after LTK Cubby knew that
his independence from MGM was increasingly diminished. If Cubby's
health hadn't been failing, if the Danjaq sale had gone through, or if
another studio had taken the Bond films on, perhaps things would have
been different, but when it became clear that future Bond films would
still be MGM / EON product, I suspect the power balance shifted
somewhat in MGM's favour, and that they got to call more of the shots
than they had previously. I truly believe that would have been the
case even if Cubby had stayed on.

To get back to what we were discussing, it seems to me that the
decision to impose outside-written theme songs on the series was a
marketing-led decision, and I'd lay odds that the marketing people
behind this move were MGM's rather than EON's.

Best

Phil
Re: CR theme song [message #242511 ] Mi, 22 März 2006 15:07
Eric Grayson  
Connery didn't like Saltzman and Broccoli because they were cheap and
didn't want to pony up the $$ to keep him in the series. It's pretty
clear that Saltzman became rather a pain in the posterior after the
first 2 Bond pictures, which is a shame, because his influence seems to
have really helped them.

UA (later MGM and even later Sony) is only a 50% partner in the Bond
series. This is often mis-stated in this NG (I'm not saying by you),
but you'd think that a 50% partner would not have such a sweeping
effect on the franchise. (Broccoli and Saltzman were 50% partners in
Eon and when Saltzman wanted to quit, he sold his half [in a circuitous
fashion] to UA.)

That said, it's pretty clear that MGM had a hand in the ouster of
Dalton, and you may be right that they have had a say in getting more
"commercial" bands in the spot of Bond title artists. But, even so,
Barry worked with Duran Duran, a-ha, Rita Coolidge, etc.

Perhaps Wilson and Barbara Broccoli don't see the music as an important
part of the whole and so allowed MGM (and now Sony) to dictate ideas on
it. I certainly think that if they went to the mat on it, like they
did on getting Craig in and Brosnan out--something Sony did not want,
then they would have gotten their way.

Seems more likely to me that this is just micromanaging. You're right
that Broccoli did it, too, but not really on this level, it seems to
me.

Eric
In article <1143025157.862774.17610 [at] j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
<"phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com"> wrote:

> Eric wrote:
>
> > This points up a gripe I have with the post-Albert Broccoli films in
> > general.
> >
> > Broccoli had a tendency to hire good people and then let them alone and
> > allow them do their jobs. Wilson and Barbara like to micromanage too
> > much, which gives the whole film a consistent, flat feel. It's
> > basically what Brosnan has complained about, and it's a problem that
> > the last several films have had. The scripts are like this, the music
> > is like this, the acting is like this, and the directing is like this.
> >
> > I'd like to see Mr. Wilson loosen up a little and allow his creative
> > people to be creative. Not that Broccoli always did the right thing by
> > his creative staff, but he seemed to get better results.
>
> I'm not convinced that the management style of which you complain is
> completely down to Barbara Broccoli and Michael Wilson. The more I
> learn about the history of the EON films, the more it strikes me that
> since the 1960s UA/MGM have been increasingly 'hands-on' in their
> approach to the Bond films, and certainly they've been the driving
> force behind some major decisions: the rehiring of Connery, the sacking
> of Glen and Maibaum, Dalton's premature departure from the role, etc.
> The Sony lawsuit aside, it strikes me that after LTK Cubby knew that
> his independence from MGM was increasingly diminished. If Cubby's
> health hadn't been failing, if the Danjaq sale had gone through, or if
> another studio had taken the Bond films on, perhaps things would have
> been different, but when it became clear that future Bond films would
> still be MGM / EON product, I suspect the power balance shifted
> somewhat in MGM's favour, and that they got to call more of the shots
> than they had previously. I truly believe that would have been the
> case even if Cubby had stayed on.
>
> To get back to what we were discussing, it seems to me that the
> decision to impose outside-written theme songs on the series was a
> marketing-led decision, and I'd lay odds that the marketing people
> behind this move were MGM's rather than EON's.
>
> Best
>
> Phil
>
Re: CR theme song [message #242512 ] Mi, 22 März 2006 15:18
James Hunter  
"Eric Grayson" <filmspamawayeric [at] earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:210320062222065764%filmspamawayeric [at] earthlink.net...

<snip>

>Broccoli had a tendency to hire good people and then let them alone and
> allow them do their jobs. Wilson and Barbara like to micromanage too
> much, which gives the whole film a consistent, flat feel. It's
> basically what Brosnan has complained about, and it's a problem that
> the last several films have had. The scripts are like this, the music
> is like this, the acting is like this, and the directing is like this.
>
> I'd like to see Mr. Wilson loosen up a little and allow his creative
> people to be creative. Not that Broccoli always did the right thing by
> his creative staff, but he seemed to get better results.
>

Hi,

I'd like to know how anyone other than those on the inside of Eon
Productions would know that "Wilson and Barbara like to micromanage too
much...." This statement seemed very sweeping and I have never seen any
evidence of producer "micromanaging" of the recent films - and I do not
include innernet gossip and vilification as evidence. There is the distinct
possibility that I have missed important information regarding the "new"
Wilson/Broccoli style of film production - if so, I want to know!

However, "seemed to get better results" is a subjective conclusion: I would
not regard TMWTGG or OP to be better than GE or TWINE. But that's my own
opinion.

BTW, I am currently listening to "Play Dead" by Bjork/Arnold (the Tim
Simenon Orchestral Mix) and while it's...er..."Bondian," in the same sense
that the theme to TWINE is "Bondian," it's lacking something fresh to it.
It has elements of Barry and Bond Arnold (of course), and the strings are
put to lush and melancholic good use. However if we're discussing
possibilities for the music for CR, I think something a little different
would serve the film (and series) better.

Thanks!
James
Re: CR theme song [message #242517 ] Mi, 22 März 2006 15:38
Mac  
James Hunter wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'd like to know how anyone other than those on the inside of Eon
> Productions would know that "Wilson and Barbara like to micromanage
> too much...." This statement seemed very sweeping and I have never
> seen any evidence of producer "micromanaging" of the recent films -
> and I do not include innernet gossip and vilification as evidence.
> There is the distinct possibility that I have missed important
> information regarding the "new" Wilson/Broccoli style of film
> production - if so, I want to know!
> BTW, I am currently listening to "Play Dead" by Bjork/Arnold (the Tim
> Simenon Orchestral Mix) and while it's...er..."Bondian," in the same
> sense that the theme to TWINE is "Bondian," it's lacking something
> fresh to it. It has elements of Barry and Bond Arnold (of course),
> and the strings are put to lush and melancholic good use. However if
> we're discussing possibilities for the music for CR, I think
> something a little different would serve the film (and series) better.

I'm with him.
--
--Mac
Re: CR theme song [message #242519 ] Mi, 22 März 2006 15:49
Mac  
Eric Grayson wrote:

> UA (later MGM and even later Sony) is only a 50% partner in the Bond
> series. This is often mis-stated in this NG (I'm not saying by you),
> but you'd think that a 50% partner would not have such a sweeping
> effect on the franchise.

It's often give and take between the two.
--
--Mac
United Artists (was: CR theme song) [message #242542 ] Mi, 22 März 2006 21:01
ahk  
phil.gerrard1 [at] ntlworld.com wrote:

>I'm not convinced that the management style of which you complain is
>completely down to Barbara Broccoli and Michael Wilson. The more I learn
>about the history of the EON films, the more it strikes me that since the
>1960s UA/MGM have been increasingly 'hands-on' in their approach to the
>Bond films, and certainly they've been the driving force behind some
>major decisions: the rehiring of Connery, the sacking of Glen and
>Maibaum, Dalton's premature departure from the role, etc.

The things you guys have been saying about United Artists conflict with
what I've read about the studio over the years. UA was the minimalist
studio that made its money through distribution only and left it to
producers to assume the risk and costs of production. Literally, UA never
owned a studio. UA was the smallest of the eight main entities that
dominated Hollywood from the '30's till the '60's: MGM, Warner Brothers,
Columbia, 20th Century Fox, RKO, Universal, and Disney.

btw, the United Artists in question were Charlie Chaplin, Mary Pickford,
Douglas Fairbanks, and D.W. Griffith. UA was formed to distributed their
movies and those of other independent producers lured from the other
studios. Chaplin had his own studio. Pickford and Fairbanks owned 18 acres
on Santa Monica Blvd upon which other producers would build or rent
stages. The Pickford-Fairbanks studio became United Artists Studio,
independent of the distribution company. Samuel Goldwyn and Joseph Schenk
would finance its expansion. Goldwyn took over from Schenk in 1935,
Pickford assumed Fairbanks portion after his death in 1939. Goldwyn would
leave UA in 1940 and rename the studio after himself over Pickford's
objections and the two would face legal wranglings for years to come as
neither had outright ownership. Finally, the partition of the lot wasn't
settled until 1955 when Goldwyn was able to raise the money to finance his
purchase, outbidding Pickford. It remained the Goldwyn studio until 1980
when purchased by Warners and renamed its Warner Hollywood Studio, then
sold in 1999 to a private company which renamed it The Lot, still leasing
space and facilities to independent producers.

None of that has anything to do with the production of James Bond movies,
but I had just looked it up and found it of interest.

btw, there was also a United Artists Theatre Chain, also a separate entity
from the distribution company, but it gave UA a venue to have big
premieres of its movies in major cities where the bigger studios kept all
the fancy downtown venues booked years in advance.

Anyway, UA didn't become a major player until the influence of Mary
Pickford was reduced. The distribution entity was too loaded down with the
pet projects of its surviving founders that had little chance of making
money.

The Bond films of the '60's and the Pink Panther films allowed UA to make
money hand over fist and they began financing some films, not just
distributing them. The Pink Panther movies weren't quite as profitable
because UA was distributing the work of Mirisch Company, essentially a
European company set up on the same model as UA.

UA decided it couldn't remain independent and sold itself to TransAmerica,
an insurance company turning itself into a conglomerate, and brought upon
itself the very corporate masters it had avoided by not being a vertically
integrated movie company. UA never fit with TransAmerica and they were
sold off. Independent again, the magic was gone. they financed a series of
expensive movies that didn't do very well, culminating in "Heaven's Gate",
a movie everyone loves to hate, blaming it for bringing down the studio.
HG was a gift to Michael Cimino after "Deer Hunter" won top Oscars,
allowing him to make any film he wanted. It was supposed to be a low
budget film. Oops.

FYEO kept UA's bankruptcy at bay but UA was not to survive.

MGM didn't succeed UA as there was no continuity at all, just bought the
name and a portion of the film library and I guess distribution rights to
some of the movies in production.

Anyway, yes I've heard that UA influenced some casting decisions. Why not?
It's how movies get financed. Never heard any stories of UA sending
elaborate script notes as other studios would have. Never heard of UA
influencing director choice or music or anything else.
Connery versus EON (was: CR theme song) [message #242543 ] Mi, 22 März 2006 21:18
ahk  
At 2:07pm -0000, 03/22/06, Eric Grayson <filmspamawayeric [at] earthlink.net> wrote:

>Connery didn't like Saltzman and Broccoli because they were cheap and
>didn't want to pony up the $$ to keep him in the series.

Heh. They're producers. I'm sure they felt Connery should have paid them
for the experience.

>It's pretty clear that Saltzman became rather a pain in the posterior
>after the first 2 Bond pictures, which is a shame, because his influence
>seems to have really helped them.

It's interesting. Do you guys have any quotes of Connery saying anything
negative about Saltzman? I remember an embittered Connery saying nasty
things about his Bond experience for decades. It's something I rather
dislike about Connery. Poor baby. I've never heard Roger Moore or Timothy
Dalton say anything nasty about their bond experience or any other parts
of their careers, ever.

To promote NSNA, Connery made that notorious appearance on Carson. Carson
asked him, "Who is the biggest villain Bond faced?" Connery said
"Broccoli" which got a big laugh from the audience at the very pained
expression on Carson's face. I recall seeing that Tonight Show.

I do admire Saltzman for his ability to make entertaining low budget
movies. "Ipcress File" is a masterpiece. According to IMDb, his career
ended with TMWTGG. He produced an Italian film in 1988, though. It's too
bad he didn't continue on.

>UA (later MGM and even later Sony) is only a 50% partner in the Bond
>series. This is often mis-stated in this NG (I'm not saying by you),
>but you'd think that a 50% partner would not have such a sweeping
>effect on the franchise. (Broccoli and Saltzman were 50% partners in
>Eon and when Saltzman wanted to quit, he sold his half [in a circuitous
>fashion] to UA.)

It depends who has the bigger hand in raising funds, doesn't it. MGM is
still the distributor.

>Perhaps Wilson and Barbara Broccoli don't see the music as an important
>part of the whole and so allowed MGM (and now Sony) to dictate ideas on
>it. I certainly think that if they went to the mat on it, like they
>did on getting Craig in and Brosnan out--something Sony did not want,
>then they would have gotten their way.

Um, haven't we decided that that was idle speculation on our part? Don't
know about you, but I'm not Cc'ed on studio notes.
Re: United Artists (was: CR theme song) [message #242548 ] Mi, 22 März 2006 22:31
phil.gerrard1  
Adam wrote:

> Anyway, yes I've heard that UA influenced some casting decisions. Why not?
> It's how movies get financed. Never heard any stories of UA sending
> elaborate script notes as other studios would have. Never heard of UA
> influencing director choice or music or anything else.

I don't think elaborate script notes are their style, and yes, to that
extent they are still more hands-off than other studios. But if you
accept that they have been involved in casting decisions, why would
they not then have power of veto over the choice of director? It would
seem odd to have one and not the other, and certainly I've seen
suggestions recently that in the wake of LTK, it was MGM more than EON
who were responsible for Maibaum's and Glen's removal. As far as the
music is concerned, there's the question of who made the decision to
replace 'Surrender' as TND's title tune:

http://www.ianfleming.org/mkkbb/magazine/musicof.shtml

Note the words "...in marketing terms, it wasn't going to make sense."
Now, I know this is in no way proof positive that MGM made the final
decision, but isn't marketing their department rather than EON's?

As you say, this amounts mostly to idle speculation, but I guess what
I'm trying to say is that Broccoli and Wilson might not ultimately be
responsible for *every* decision made about the movies, and that in the
absence of definite proof about certain points - and the presence of
quite a bit of ambiguity - it might be worth hesitating before blaming
them for everything one doesn't like in the films.

Best

Phil
Re: United Artists [message #242549 ] Mi, 22 März 2006 23:16
ahk  
phil.gerrard1 [at] ntlworld.com wrote:
>Adam wrote:

>>Anyway, yes I've heard that UA influenced some casting decisions. Why not?
>>It's how movies get financed. Never heard any stories of UA sending
>>elaborate script notes as other studios would have. Never heard of UA
>>influencing director choice or music or anything else.

>I don't think elaborate script notes are their style, and yes, to that
>extent they are still more hands-off than other studios. But if you
>accept that they have been involved in casting decisions, why would
>they not then have power of veto over the choice of director?

Directors don't have star power as the top actors do and are a lot less
important in getting a movie financed. Now, if a distributor wanted to
punish a director or felt that he was incapable of keeping costs in line,
sure, I can see them raising a fuss.

If anyone says Spielberg has star power, his more artistic movies weren't
blockbusters although they undoubtably had higher attendance than if they
had been made by unknown directors. Now Hitchcock, he had star power
during the '40's and '50's, and the tv show made him a celebrity. It's his
fault that directors get their names above the titles as if screenwriters
are entirely unimportant.

What Bond director did UA ever veto?

>It would seem odd to have one and not the other, and certainly I've seen
>suggestions recently that in the wake of LTK, it was MGM more than EON
>who were responsible for Maibaum's and Glen's removal.

Ok. I was disagreeing with certain comments made about the UA era. My
opinion of any of the, gosh, four incarnations of post-studio-system MGM
are not terribly high.

Whatever LTK's faults were, it was a dirt cheap movie for a major action
flick, an insane reason to punish a director.
Re: United Artists [message #242559 ] Mi, 22 März 2006 23:59
Mac  
Adam H. Kerman wrote:

> Whatever LTK's faults were, it was a dirt cheap movie for a major
> action flick, an insane reason to punish a director.

$35m wasn't dirt cheap in 1989. BATMAN was made for the same
money and LETHAL WEAPON 2 wouldn't have cost much more
(considering the original was made for $15m). The film was poor
creatively and, as a consequence, the people who get the blame
are the creatives.

How often do we see writers and directors blamed for the crapness
of a particular Bond film on this very group? Or any film for that
matter? They're always first in the firing line.
--
--Mac
Re: United Artists [message #242563 ] Do, 23 März 2006 00:16
ahk  
At 10:59pm -0000, 03/22/06, see.mac [at] SPAMLESSvirgin.net wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman wrote:

>> Whatever LTK's faults were, it was a dirt cheap movie for a major
>> action flick, an insane reason to punish a director.

>$35m wasn't dirt cheap in 1989.

Oh. I thought it had a lower budget. Er, you don't think MGM saddled it
with losses from other productions, do you?
Re: United Artists [message #242571 ] Do, 23 März 2006 01:35
Mac  
Adam H. Kerman wrote:

> At 10:59pm -0000, 03/22/06, see.mac [at] SPAMLESSvirgin.net wrote:
>> Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>
>>> Whatever LTK's faults were, it was a dirt cheap movie for a major
>>> action flick, an insane reason to punish a director.
>
>> $35m wasn't dirt cheap in 1989.
>
> Oh. I thought it had a lower budget. Er, you don't think MGM saddled
> it with losses from other productions, do you?

Heh. UA had kept EON at the same production budget for a decade at
that point. Admittedly, what had been an extravagant budget for
MOONRAKER in 1979 just wasn't going as far in 1989. The astonishing
thing about LICENCE TO KILL is that it took what was still a decent
budget and managed to produce a film that didn't look or play any
better than one of Cannon's $12-$15m budgeted Norris/Bronson
efforts.
--
--Mac
Re: United Artists [message #242600 ] Do, 23 März 2006 05:43
Absorb  
Mac wrote:
> Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>
>
>>At 10:59pm -0000, 03/22/06, see.mac [at] SPAMLESSvirgin.net wrote:
>>
>>>Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>
>>>>Whatever LTK's faults were, it was a dirt cheap movie for a major
>>>>action flick, an insane reason to punish a director.
>>
>>>$35m wasn't dirt cheap in 1989.
>>
>>Oh. I thought it had a lower budget. Er, you don't think MGM saddled
>>it with losses from other productions, do you?
>
>
> Heh. UA had kept EON at the same production budget for a decade at
> that point. Admittedly, what had been an extravagant budget for
> MOONRAKER in 1979 just wasn't going as far in 1989. The astonishing
> thing about LICENCE TO KILL is that it took what was still a decent
> budget and managed to produce a film that didn't look or play any
> better than one of Cannon's $12-$15m budgeted Norris/Bronson
> efforts.

I had no idea about any of this.

As everyone knows, I hate LTK for its "Miami Vice" plot and cheap
production value, but I find it fascinating that they actually had an
average budget. I mean, from a visual standpoint, Batman mostly holds
up today. Yeah, the shadow Batman at the very beginning of the film
looks awful, and some of the outside scenes are clearly shot on a
soundstage, but everything else, especially Vicky's apartment and the
art museum, still looks great (I haven't got the SE of it, so I
don't know if they changed anything).

Honestly, I don't think the poor look of LTK would bother me much if it
weren't a Bond film. I expect a Bond movie to deliver certain things,
and great production value and exotic locations are among them (the
fictional country wouldn't have been so bad had it been interesting).

Absorb
------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
Wishes someone would win the HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray format war so she could
buy new versions of Batman and Batman Begins
Re: United Artists [message #242612 ] Do, 23 März 2006 11:46
ahk  
At 10:43pm -0600, 03/22/06, Absorb <rubylustre [at] yahoo.com> wrote:

>I mean, from a visual standpoint, Batman mostly holds up today. Yeah,
>the shadow Batman at the very beginning of the film looks awful, and some
>of the outside scenes are clearly shot on a soundstage,

Isn't this intentional, to give the movie a slightly unreal look and let
the audience in on the madness?

>but everything else, especially Vicky's apartment and the art museum,
>still looks great (I haven't got the SE of it, so I don't know if they
>changed anything).
Re: United Artists [message #242616 ] Do, 23 März 2006 12:55
Tom Zielinski  
"Absorb" <rubylustre [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:nuCdncjDtP_Gur_ZnZ2dnUVZ_tmdnZ2d [at] comcast.com...

> Wishes someone would win the HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray format war so she could
> buy new versions of Batman and Batman Begins


As one who invested in an expensive laserdisc system and a lot of software
in the early-mid 1990's, I agree

As I understand it (though I may have this reversed), Blu-Ray will be
reverse-compatible with today's DVD's and the other format will not.

So Blu-Ray gets my vote.


Tom Zielinski
"...Bond's eyes narrowed. He knew, at some point, he would have to slay this
particular dragon. He settled back in his chair, removing a Morlands' three
ring special from the gunmetal cigarette case. As he waited for the
delicious Balkan/Turkish blend to take effect on his lungs, he reflected
that still, the Criterion "Thunderball" and "Goldfinger" laserdiscs are a
special treat..."
Re: United Artists [message #242617 ] Do, 23 März 2006 13:27
Mac  
Tom Zielinski wrote:

> Tom Zielinski
> "...Bond's eyes narrowed. He knew, at some point, he would have to
> slay this particular dragon. He settled back in his chair, removing
> a Morlands' three ring special from the gunmetal cigarette case. As
> he waited for the delicious Balkan/Turkish blend to take effect on
> his lungs, he reflected that still, the Criterion "Thunderball" and
> "Goldfinger" laserdiscs are a special treat..."

There wasn't a Criterion THUNDERBALL disc, Z. Criterion issued DR. NO,
FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE and GOLDFINGER in controversial commentary
and plain vanilla versions. The splendid THUNDERBALL and GOLDFINGER
Laserdisc box-sets you're thinking of were the work of TWINE
entertainment (i.e. John Cork and Co.) and MGM.
--
--Mac

Who still has all his Bond Laserdiscs and player.
Vorheriges Thema:I have returned just to say...
Nächstes Thema:James Bond Monopoly?
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