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Fantasy » alt.fan.harry-potter » Clue In GOF Movie
Clue In GOF Movie [message #239758] Mo, 27 März 2006 08:08
Toon  
I know they ain't Kosher, but I was watching GOF, and Sirius told
Harry once a DE always a DE. And Sanpe as most certainly a known DE.
But conveniently left out prior to the pensieve. And just before that
Sirius tells Harry Hogwarts is no longer safe. And we all know what
happens in Book 6 concerning that.

So, is this a secret clue to Snape? And, why wasn't Snape mentioned
as being a former DE. if Sirius truly believes once-always, he must
believe Snape's still a DE at heart, and would want Harry to watch out
for him.
Re: Clue In GOF Movie [message #239763 ] Mo, 27 März 2006 08:42
dicconf  
In article <j30f22pkrrsctfasr9r3kfubg4re09autg [at] 4ax.com>,
Toon <toon [at] toon.com> wrote:
>I know they ain't Kosher, but I was watching GOF, and Sirius told
>Harry once a DE always a DE. And Snape as most certainly a known DE.
>But conveniently left out prior to the pensieve. And just before that
>Sirius tells Harry Hogwarts is no longer safe. And we all know what
>happens in Book 6 concerning that.
>
>So, is this a secret clue to Snape? And, why wasn't Snape mentioned
>as being a former DE. if Sirius truly believes once-always, he must
>believe Snape's still a DE at heart, and would want Harry to watch out
>for him.

There's a little problem with that comment from Sirius.
It was Sirius's brother Regulus who was the DE who tried to quit,
and Sirius seems to believe that was for real. So that's one DE
who didn't stay one. Then there's Karkaroff, who was a DE and
who was too afraid to go back, so there's one who didn't stay
a DE - nasty, yes, but not technically a DE any more.

It's about as accurate as Hagrid's saying that every dark wizard
came from Slytherin.

=Tamar
Re: Clue In GOF Movie [message #239788 ] Mo, 27 März 2006 17:05
drusilla  
Richard Eney escribió:
> In article <j30f22pkrrsctfasr9r3kfubg4re09autg [at] 4ax.com>,
> Toon <toon [at] toon.com> wrote:
>> I know they ain't Kosher, but I was watching GOF, and Sirius told
>> Harry once a DE always a DE. And Snape as most certainly a known DE.
>> But conveniently left out prior to the pensieve. And just before that
>> Sirius tells Harry Hogwarts is no longer safe. And we all know what
>> happens in Book 6 concerning that.
>>
>> So, is this a secret clue to Snape? And, why wasn't Snape mentioned
>> as being a former DE. if Sirius truly believes once-always, he must
>> believe Snape's still a DE at heart, and would want Harry to watch out
>> for him.
>
> There's a little problem with that comment from Sirius.
> It was Sirius's brother Regulus who was the DE who tried to quit,
> and Sirius seems to believe that was for real. So that's one DE
> who didn't stay one. Then there's Karkaroff, who was a DE and
> who was too afraid to go back, so there's one who didn't stay
> a DE - nasty, yes, but not technically a DE any more.
>
> It's about as accurate as Hagrid's saying that every dark wizard
> came from Slytherin.

This is from Jo's site:

Sirius is very good at spouting bits of excellent personal philosophy,
but he does not always live up to them. For instance, he says in "Goblet
of Fire" that if you want to know what a man is really like, 'look at
how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.' [...] Similarly, Sirius
claims that nobody is wholly good or wholly evil, and yet the way he
acts towards Snape suggests that he cannot conceive of any latent good
qualities there. Of course, these double standards exist in most of us;
we might know how we ought to behave, but actually doing it is a
different matter!

I think Sirius' opinions were quite rational except when those are about
Snape when all neutrality goes to hell because simply he didn't like
him. When he talked about Regulus, IMO, he seemed like he pitied him
for have been so stupid to believe, the same about Crouch Jr, when he
saw him been taken to Azkaban.
Re: Clue In GOF Movie [message #239790 ] Mo, 27 März 2006 17:19
drusilla  
Toon wrote:
> I know they ain't Kosher, but I was watching GOF, and Sirius told
> Harry once a DE always a DE.

Mmm... could a gentle soul explain me what Kosher means? It's a concept
I've heard but never understand.

Thanks.
Re: Clue In GOF Movie [message #239791 ] Mo, 27 März 2006 17:24
ergrtgth  
well look how he treats Kreacher
Re: Clue In GOF Movie [message #239792 ] Mo, 27 März 2006 17:27
ergrtgth  
I would say more of a clue would be the Pensieve scene in the movie where
Karaov yells that Snape's lying and he still remains faithful. How or why
would K know this? Did he witness Snape doing evil deatheater things? Does
D ignore all of Snape's evil doings because he's a Spy? Because in order to
remain a Death Eater, even as a Spy, especially as a SPY, Snape probably has
to constantly prove himself and do despicable things, which means that even
if Snape is a "Spy" Dumbledore probably excuses an awful lot
Re: Clue In GOF Movie [message #239793 ] Mo, 27 März 2006 17:52
Matt Clara  
"drusilla" <me [at] me.net> wrote in message news:e08vqi$d3b$1 [at] emma.aioe.org...
> Toon wrote:
> > I know they ain't Kosher, but I was watching GOF, and Sirius told
> > Harry once a DE always a DE.
>
> Mmm... could a gentle soul explain me what Kosher means? It's a concept
> I've heard but never understand.
>
> Thanks.

http://tinyurl.com/gfdea
In essence, it means that something has been given a stamp of approval by an
authorized individual or group. In this case by saying they aren't kosher,
the poster is saying that he knows the movies aren't the best place to start
in analyzing and understanding the story. Of course, the movies _are_
"kosher", as JKR signs off on them, but the poster is correct that it's
better to work from the books than the movies.

--
Regards,
Matt Clara
www.mattclara.com
Re: Clue In GOF Movie [message #239794 ] Mo, 27 März 2006 17:59
cwlNOSPAM  
In article <e08vqi$d3b$1 [at] emma.aioe.org>, drusilla <me [at] me.net> wrote:

>Toon wrote:
>> I know they ain't Kosher, but I was watching GOF, and Sirius told
>> Harry once a DE always a DE.
>
>Mmm... could a gentle soul explain me what Kosher means? It's a concept
>I've heard but never understand.

Basically it means "proper" and refers to food prepared by Jewish law and
ritual. It's in any dictionary and I'm sure Wikipedia can serve up
details.
--
Chris (the gentle soul)
Re: Clue In GOF Movie [message #239795 ] Mo, 27 März 2006 18:14
BubblyBabs  
In the previous message drusilla me [at] me.net wrote:

> Toon wrote:
>> I know they ain't Kosher, but I was watching GOF, and Sirius told
>> Harry once a DE always a DE.
>
> Mmm... could a gentle soul explain me what Kosher means? It's a
> concept I've heard but never understand.
>
> Thanks.


From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosher

"The word kosher has been borrowed by many languages. In English as slang,
it generally means legitimate, acceptable, permissible, genuine or
authentic"

And from:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kosher

1.. (of food) prepared in accordance with Jewish religious practices.
2.. (generally) in accordance with standards or usual practices,
i.e "Is what I have done kosher with Mr Smith?"

Babs
Re: Clue In GOF Movie [message #239801 ] Mo, 27 März 2006 18:58
drusilla  
Green-Eyed Chris escribió:
> In article <e08vqi$d3b$1 [at] emma.aioe.org>, drusilla <me [at] me.net> wrote:
>
>> Toon wrote:
>>> I know they ain't Kosher, but I was watching GOF, and Sirius told
>>> Harry once a DE always a DE.
>> Mmm... could a gentle soul explain me what Kosher means? It's a concept
>> I've heard but never understand.
>
> Basically it means "proper" and refers to food prepared by Jewish law and
> ritual. It's in any dictionary and I'm sure Wikipedia can serve up
> details.
> --
> Chris (the gentle soul)

Thanks to Matt, Chris and Babs :) Who says we aren't nice people?
Re: Clue In GOF Movie [message #239834 ] Di, 28 März 2006 02:43
mag3  
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:58:07 -0500, drusilla <me [at] me.net> wrote:

>Green-Eyed Chris escribió:
>> In article <e08vqi$d3b$1 [at] emma.aioe.org>, drusilla <me [at] me.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Toon wrote:
>>>> I know they ain't Kosher, but I was watching GOF, and Sirius told
>>>> Harry once a DE always a DE.
>>> Mmm... could a gentle soul explain me what Kosher means? It's a concept
>>> I've heard but never understand.
>>
>> Basically it means "proper" and refers to food prepared by Jewish law and
>> ritual. It's in any dictionary and I'm sure Wikipedia can serve up
>> details.
>> --

Or more specifically, food that has been prepared under Jewish Rabinical Supervison
and blessed as such by one or more of the Rabinical unions. If you've ever looked at
a can of CocaCola or some such similar product and seen eithe a large "K" or a "U"
inside a circle (an "O" actually) or the word "Puavre(sp)", these symbols represent
the different Rabinical unions that go around to different food/drink processing firms
and supervise the preparation of the product as being under those Jewish laws, the
product hence being certified as "Kosher" by that union.

>> Chris (the gentle soul)
>
>Thanks to Matt, Chris and Babs :) Who says we aren't nice people?

Actually, Islam has a precise equivalent concept called "Hallal." Exeactly the same thing
except Islamic law/traditions instead of Jewish law/traditions.

____________________________________________
Regards,

Arnold
Re: Clue In GOF Movie [message #239835 ] Di, 28 März 2006 02:52
mag3  
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 00:43:45 GMT, mag3 <zmpmag3-afhp [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Or more specifically, food that has been prepared under Jewish Rabinical Supervison
>and blessed as such by one or more of the Rabinical unions. If you've ever looked at
>a can of CocaCola or some such similar product and seen eithe a large "K" or a "U"
>inside a circle (an "O" actually) or the word "Puavre(sp)", these symbols represent
>the different Rabinical unions that go around to different food/drink processing firms
>and supervise the preparation of the product as being under those Jewish laws, the
>product hence being certified as "Kosher" by that union.
>

That's "Parve" actually, and it describes foods that contain neither meat nor dairy
ingredients (eg. fruits, vegtables, grains in their natural state etc.).

Here's an URL on all the different Kosher organizations that go and supervise the
food preparation.

http://www.mazornet.com/jewishcl/Kosher/kosherorgs.htm



____________________________________________
Regards,

Arnold
Re: Clue In GOF Movie [message #239850 ] Di, 28 März 2006 11:11
Toon  
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 06:42:01 -0000, dicconf [at] radix.net (Richard Eney)
wrote:


>who didn't stay one. Then there's Karkaroff, who was a DE and
>who was too afraid to go back, so there's one who didn't stay
>a DE - nasty, yes, but not technically a DE any more.
>

He was talking about Karkaroff.
Re: Clue In GOF Movie [message #239851 ] Di, 28 März 2006 11:13
Toon  
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:19:45 -0500, drusilla <me [at] me.net> wrote:

>Toon wrote:
>> I know they ain't Kosher, but I was watching GOF, and Sirius told
>> Harry once a DE always a DE.
>
>Mmm... could a gentle soul explain me what Kosher means? It's a concept
>I've heard but never understand.
>
>Thanks.

Kosher is Jewish religion's blessing of food. The idea being, if it's
not blessed it's not good. So, if something's not kosher, it's bad.
IE, trusting he movies as a main indicator for the books.
Re: Clue In GOF Movie [message #239852 ] Di, 28 März 2006 11:16
Toon  
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:27:25 GMT, "ergrtgth" <htrrrth [at] rth.com> wrote:

>I would say more of a clue would be the Pensieve scene in the movie where
>Karaov yells that Snape's lying and he still remains faithful. How or why
>would K know this? Did he witness Snape doing evil deatheater things? Does
>D ignore all of Snape's evil doings because he's a Spy? Because in order to
>remain a Death Eater, even as a Spy, especially as a SPY, Snape probably has
>to constantly prove himself and do despicable things, which means that even
>if Snape is a "Spy" Dumbledore probably excuses an awful lot
>

Look at his teachings, general behavior towards Harry, Neville's
Boggart. I stil l ay Snape's reaction when it got around was not Ew,
me in a dress, but OMG! A student totally fears me that much. Like
goll. Or in a non Valley Girl version.
Re: Clue In GOF Movie [message #243703 ] Do, 30 März 2006 01:53
Matt Clara  
"mag3" <zmpmag3-afhp [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7s0h22d35dijvtjvocfrk13015mpef7n6c [at] 4ax.com...
> On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:58:07 -0500, drusilla <me [at] me.net> wrote:
>
>>Green-Eyed Chris escribió:
>>> In article <e08vqi$d3b$1 [at] emma.aioe.org>, drusilla <me [at] me.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Toon wrote:
>>>>> I know they ain't Kosher, but I was watching GOF, and Sirius told
>>>>> Harry once a DE always a DE.
>>>> Mmm... could a gentle soul explain me what Kosher means? It's a concept
>>>> I've heard but never understand.
>>>
>>> Basically it means "proper" and refers to food prepared by Jewish law
>>> and
>>> ritual. It's in any dictionary and I'm sure Wikipedia can serve up
>>> details.
>>> --
>
> Or more specifically, food that has been prepared under Jewish Rabinical
> Supervison
> and blessed as such by one or more of the Rabinical unions. If you've
> ever looked at
> a can of CocaCola or some such similar product and seen eithe a large "K"
> or a "U"
> inside a circle (an "O" actually) or the word "Puavre(sp)", these symbols
> represent
> the different Rabinical unions that go around to different food/drink
> processing firms
> and supervise the preparation of the product as being under those Jewish
> laws, the
> product hence being certified as "Kosher" by that union.
>
>>> Chris (the gentle soul)
>>
>>Thanks to Matt, Chris and Babs :) Who says we aren't nice people?
>
> Actually, Islam has a precise equivalent concept called "Hallal." Exeactly
> the same thing
> except Islamic law/traditions instead of Jewish law/traditions.
>
>

Yes, it's interesting that religion offered the first tenants of food
safety, which is now administered in most nations by governments both on the
federal and local levels.

--
Regards,
Matt Clara
www.mattclara.com
Re: Clue In GOF Movie [message #243849 ] Sa, 01 April 2006 07:39
dicconf  
In article <edvh2259gp3uase8ao428b3v14j1f68fq2 [at] 4ax.com>,
Toon <toon [at] toon.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 06:42:01 -0000, dicconf [at] radix.net (Richard Eney)
>wrote:
>
>
>>who didn't stay one. Then there's Karkaroff, who was a DE and
>>who was too afraid to go back, so there's one who didn't stay
>>a DE - nasty, yes, but not technically a DE any more.
>
>He was talking about Karkaroff.

And he was wrong. Karkaroff didn't go back. (And neither did Regulus.)

=Tamar
Re: Clue In GOF Movie [message #243867 ] Sa, 01 April 2006 11:27
Alex Clark  
mag3 wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 00:43:45 GMT, mag3 <zmpmag3-afhp [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >Or more specifically, food that has been prepared under Jewish Rabinical Supervison
> >and blessed as such by one or more of the Rabinical unions. If you've ever looked at
> >a can of CocaCola or some such similar product and seen eithe a large "K" or a "U"
> >inside a circle (an "O" actually) or the word "Puavre(sp)", these symbols represent
> >the different Rabinical unions that go around to different food/drink processing firms
> >and supervise the preparation of the product as being under those Jewish laws, the
> >product hence being certified as "Kosher" by that union.

Actually, the K is just for "kashrut" or "kosher", and does not
necessarily mean that anyone certified it, while "pareve" is a
subcategory of kashrut/kosher foods.

> That's "Parve" actually, and it describes foods that contain neither meat nor dairy
> ingredients (eg. fruits, vegtables, grains in their natural state etc.).

Apparently the more correct spelling is "pareve". It includes fish and
eggs (assuming that they are otherwise kashrut/kosher) as well as foods
not from the animal kingdom. Pareve foods can be mixed with either
meats or milk products.

--
Alex Clark

Odd mom-lover trial (an anagram rejected by Tom Riddle)
Re: Clue In GOF Movie [message #243956 ] So, 02 April 2006 10:51
Toon  
On Sat, 01 Apr 2006 05:39:25 -0000, dicconf [at] radix.net (Richard Eney)
wrote:

>In article <edvh2259gp3uase8ao428b3v14j1f68fq2 [at] 4ax.com>,
>Toon <toon [at] toon.com> wrote:
>>On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 06:42:01 -0000, dicconf [at] radix.net (Richard Eney)
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>who didn't stay one. Then there's Karkaroff, who was a DE and
>>>who was too afraid to go back, so there's one who didn't stay
>>>a DE - nasty, yes, but not technically a DE any more.
>>
>>He was talking about Karkaroff.
>
>And he was wrong. Karkaroff didn't go back. (And neither did Regulus.)
>
>=Tamar

But he didn't know that at the time. To him, Kakaroff was still very
much a DE. And since his brother was killed, does it count as
quitting?
Re: Clue In GOF Movie [message #244045 ] Mo, 03 April 2006 09:05
dicconf  
In article <d34v22d581mmbgbek57bm10em6gaf1e9e4 [at] 4ax.com>,
Toon <toon [at] toon.com> wrote:
>dicconf [at] radix.net (Richard Eney) wrote:
>>Toon <toon [at] toon.com> wrote:
>>>dicconf [at] radix.net (Richard Eney) wrote:
>>>
>>>>who didn't stay one. Then there's Karkaroff, who was a DE and
>>>>who was too afraid to go back, so there's one who didn't stay
>>>>a DE - nasty, yes, but not technically a DE any more.
>>>
>>>He was talking about Karkaroff.
>>
>>And he was wrong. Karkaroff didn't go back. (And neither did Regulus.)
>>
>>=Tamar
>
>But he didn't know that at the time. To him, Kakaroff was still very
>much a DE. And since his brother was killed, does it count as
>quitting?

He was still wrong. And yes, his brother was killed _because_
he quit. It counts.

=Tamar
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