Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice

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Fantasy » alt.fan.harry-potter » Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice

Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238678]

So, 19 März 2006 14:53

I'm not sure if the books specifically covered this, but what, exactly,
makes Tom Riddle the feared Dark Lord, other than his own proclamation
and Dark nature? Granted, as a young wizard he was sadistic,
inquisitive, ambitious. His obsession for immortality led him to the
discovery of horcruxes and he is perfectly willing to kill to make them.
But how do any of those things make him magically superior to nearly all
other wizards? Has he tapped into some realm of magic that makes him
more powerful than others? Is his extraordinary power learned, developed
or inborn?

On Polyjuice, do you think the age of the hair matters? For instance,
you have a hair from the person you want to impersonate, but that hair
fell from the person's head ten years earlier. Would you take the form
of that person at their current age, or at the age they were when the
hair came from their head?

--
DM
---

,_,
(O,O)
( )
-"-"-

dm1498 (at) gmail.com
---
"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
- Lord Voldemort

HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238691 ]

So, 19 März 2006 16:45

wadkin2000

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238696 ]

So, 19 März 2006 17:14

wadkin2000 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> DM wrote:
>
>>I'm not sure if the books specifically covered this, but what, exactly,
>>makes Tom Riddle the feared Dark Lord, other than his own proclamation
>>and Dark nature? Granted, as a young wizard he was sadistic,
>>inquisitive, ambitious. His obsession for immortality led him to the
>>discovery of horcruxes and he is perfectly willing to kill to make them.
>>But how do any of those things make him magically superior to nearly all
>>other wizards? Has he tapped into some realm of magic that makes him
>>more powerful than others? Is his extraordinary power learned, developed
>>or inborn?
>>
>>On Polyjuice, do you think the age of the hair matters? For instance,
>>you have a hair from the person you want to impersonate, but that hair
>>fell from the person's head ten years earlier. Would you take the form
>>of that person at their current age, or at the age they were when the
>>hair came from their head?
>>
>>--
>>DM
>>---
>>
>> ,_,
>>(O,O)
>>( )
>>-"-"-
>>
>>dm1498 (at) gmail.com
>>---
>>"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
>>"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
>>- Lord Voldemort
>>
>>HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
>>CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
>>HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka
>
>
>
> He was a very intelligent wizard and at an early age, showed a
> propensity toward the exploration of the Dark Arts. I think much of it
> was learned and developed when he went to Albania and some was
> self-taught. In addition to his lack of conscience for using dark
> magic, he possessed what many meglomaniacs possessed: charisma. At its
> best, it can enchant and enthrall and at its worst, it can seduce and
> entrap. Voldemort's insidious charisma and his sociopathic personality
> were a volatile mixture. Add to that his vast knowledge of the Dark
> Arts and you have one very very powerful dark wizard.

All good points, but how does any of that make him more *powerful* than
usual? It certainly makes him more knowledgeable, it makes him darker,
it may even make him a manipulator and a leader, but none of that, as
far as we know, increases magical ability. Unless magic is learned, one
would have to rely on maximizing natural skills. If magic is learned,
then theoretically, any wizard has the potential to be as powerful as
Voldemort or Dumbledore.

Compare this to the Muggle world - a serial killer is just as human (in
a physical sense) as a nun. His propensity for evil doesn't give him any
extraordinary powers over other humans. So, how does Voldemort, being
dark, increase his powers over other wizards?

--
DM
---

,_,
(O,O)
( )
-"-"-

dm1498 (at) gmail.com
---
"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
- Lord Voldemort

HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238697 ]

So, 19 März 2006 17:23

Alex Clark

DM wrote:
> I'm not sure if the books specifically covered this, but what, exactly,
> makes Tom Riddle the feared Dark Lord, other than his own proclamation
> and Dark nature? Granted, as a young wizard he was sadistic,
> inquisitive, ambitious. His obsession for immortality led him to the
> discovery of horcruxes and he is perfectly willing to kill to make them.
> But how do any of those things make him magically superior to nearly all
> other wizards? Has he tapped into some realm of magic that makes him
> more powerful than others? Is his extraordinary power learned, developed
> or inborn?

It seems to me that what makes him the Dark Lord is that a bunch of
other Dark wizards have agreed that he is their lord.

As for how he comes by his power, I suppose that he had it from birth
or from a very early age. By the time Dumbledore found him he seems to
have had rather advanced abilities, though it might be that some of the
things that he could do were not so much advanced as they were outside
the curriculum. Certainly he seems to have applied himself to his
studies, but he seems to have been powerful before Hogwarts.

Some others of the Slytherin line seem to have been a good bit less
impressive. I wonder if Slytherin knew something (perhaps from a
prophecy) about the heir to whom he left his basilisk, whether he knew
that this heir would be the last of his line, and whether he had any
idea how powerful and dangerous his heir would be.

> On Polyjuice, do you think the age of the hair matters? For instance,
> you have a hair from the person you want to impersonate, but that hair
> fell from the person's head ten years earlier. Would you take the form
> of that person at their current age, or at the age they were when the
> hair came from their head?

In GoF it seems like the potion was making its user look the way the
person from whom the hair was taken used to look, not the way he looked
at the end of the year (some people would have gotten suspicious). That
does seem to be a flaw in the plot: he was kept alive for the hair
samples, but they would hardly have been usable because everyone would
have noticed the change from his pre-captivity appearance. But maybe
there's something about how the potion works that has hardly been
hinted at so far, that would explain this. Or maybe he was kept in
better condition while the potions were still being brewed, and while
he was needed for frequent questioning.

But speaking of Voldy & "Polly", I wonder what would happen if someone
took a Voldy sample for their potion. It seems that his current
appearance results from the way that he has gotten rid of much of his
own soul. Would his appearance be given to a person whose soul is
intact, or would that person look like Voldy would look if he wasn't
spiritually challenged? I would expect the former, because it seems
like (as a general rule) the potion mimics a person's appearance
regardless of what caused the appearance. But since Voldy's appearance
results in part from a non-physical condition, it seems possible that
this might be an exception.

--
Alex Clark

Marmot devil drool (an anagram rejected by Tom Riddle)

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238698 ]

So, 19 März 2006 17:27

TakenEvent

"DM" <dm1498 [at] {REMOVE}gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2ndTf.76366$no3.74029 [at] tornado.southeast.rr.com...
> I'm not sure if the books specifically covered this, but what, exactly,
> makes Tom Riddle the feared Dark Lord, other than his own proclamation
> and Dark nature? Granted, as a young wizard he was sadistic,
> inquisitive, ambitious. His obsession for immortality led him to the
> discovery of horcruxes and he is perfectly willing to kill to make them.
> But how do any of those things make him magically superior to nearly all
> other wizards? Has he tapped into some realm of magic that makes him
> more powerful than others? Is his extraordinary power learned, developed
> or inborn?

Think about his lineage...

>
> On Polyjuice, do you think the age of the hair matters? For instance,
> you have a hair from the person you want to impersonate, but that hair
> fell from the person's head ten years earlier. Would you take the form
> of that person at their current age, or at the age they were when the
> hair came from their head?
>

We're talking magic, not science, so anything is possible. I don't know
that this has ever been covered in any of the books. We may never know.

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238700 ]

So, 19 März 2006 17:36

TakenEvent wrote:

> "DM" <dm1498 [at] {REMOVE}gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:2ndTf.76366$no3.74029 [at] tornado.southeast.rr.com...
>
>>I'm not sure if the books specifically covered this, but what, exactly,
>>makes Tom Riddle the feared Dark Lord, other than his own proclamation
>>and Dark nature? Granted, as a young wizard he was sadistic,
>>inquisitive, ambitious. His obsession for immortality led him to the
>>discovery of horcruxes and he is perfectly willing to kill to make them.
>>But how do any of those things make him magically superior to nearly all
>>other wizards? Has he tapped into some realm of magic that makes him
>>more powerful than others? Is his extraordinary power learned, developed
>>or inborn?
>
>
> Think about his lineage...

Well, if you're just going to state the obvious... ;)

Seriously, so, if being the heir to Slytherin gives him his great
powers, does that mean Dumbledore's great powers are linked to a founder
as well? Maybe Gryffindor or Ravenclaw. If so, would a possession of
Dumbledore's also be considered an artifact of Gryffindor/Ravenclaw's?

--
DM
---

,_,
(O,O)
( )
-"-"-

dm1498 (at) gmail.com
---
"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
- Lord Voldemort

HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238706 ]

So, 19 März 2006 18:16

wadkin2000

DM wrote:
> wadkin2000 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> > DM wrote:
> >
> >>I'm not sure if the books specifically covered this, but what, exactly,
> >>makes Tom Riddle the feared Dark Lord, other than his own proclamation
> >>and Dark nature? Granted, as a young wizard he was sadistic,
> >>inquisitive, ambitious. His obsession for immortality led him to the
> >>discovery of horcruxes and he is perfectly willing to kill to make them.
> >>But how do any of those things make him magically superior to nearly all
> >>other wizards? Has he tapped into some realm of magic that makes him
> >>more powerful than others? Is his extraordinary power learned, developed
> >>or inborn?
> >>
> >>On Polyjuice, do you think the age of the hair matters? For instance,
> >>you have a hair from the person you want to impersonate, but that hair
> >>fell from the person's head ten years earlier. Would you take the form
> >>of that person at their current age, or at the age they were when the
> >>hair came from their head?
> >>
> >>--
> >>DM
> >>---
> >>
> >> ,_,
> >>(O,O)
> >>( )
> >>-"-"-
> >>
> >>dm1498 (at) gmail.com
> >>---
> >>"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
> >>"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
> >>- Lord Voldemort
> >>
> >>HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
> >>CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
> >>HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka
> >
> >
> >
> > He was a very intelligent wizard and at an early age, showed a
> > propensity toward the exploration of the Dark Arts. I think much of it
> > was learned and developed when he went to Albania and some was
> > self-taught. In addition to his lack of conscience for using dark
> > magic, he possessed what many meglomaniacs possessed: charisma. At its
> > best, it can enchant and enthrall and at its worst, it can seduce and
> > entrap. Voldemort's insidious charisma and his sociopathic personality
> > were a volatile mixture. Add to that his vast knowledge of the Dark
> > Arts and you have one very very powerful dark wizard.
>
> All good points, but how does any of that make him more *powerful* than
> usual? It certainly makes him more knowledgeable, it makes him darker,
> it may even make him a manipulator and a leader, but none of that, as
> far as we know, increases magical ability. Unless magic is learned, one
> would have to rely on maximizing natural skills. If magic is learned,
> then theoretically, any wizard has the potential to be as powerful as
> Voldemort or Dumbledore.

That's like saying that if any person learns to draw, they'll become a
great artist. True, everyone has potential, but there are also degrees
of potential. There are also degrees of intelligence. I would assume
it's similar in the wizarding world as well as the muggle world. Say,
for example, you're listening to two pianists playing the same
concerto. Why would one evoke tears from a listener and one not?
Certain people have an innate aptitude or intelligence. That's why
there are prodigies. As I said in my post, his passion and thirst for
the dark arts, as well as his intelligence, lead him to seek out the
darker wizards and immerse himself in the dark arts, learning all there
was to learn. It was also his intelligence that allowed him to create
dark arts potions of his own as well.
>
> Compare this to the Muggle world - a serial killer is just as human (in
> a physical sense) as a nun. His propensity for evil doesn't give him any
> extraordinary powers over other humans. So, how does Voldemort, being
> dark, increase his powers over other wizards?

IMO, I don't think the nun/serial killer analogy is accurate. I think a
better analogy (when it comes to Voldemort) would be to compare Hitler
("...just as human in a physical sense") to a nun and his "propensity
for evil" DID give him extraordinary power. Also, I wouldn't be so
quick to discount the charisma ingredient in the mix. That, IMO, is an
integral part of who and what Voldemort is and the power that he
yields.
>
> --
> DM
> ---
>
> ,_,
> (O,O)
> ( )
> -"-"-
>
> dm1498 (at) gmail.com
> ---
> "RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
> "I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
> - Lord Voldemort
>
> HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
> CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
> HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238714 ]

So, 19 März 2006 18:50

wadkin2000 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> DM wrote:
>
>>wadkin2000 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>>DM wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I'm not sure if the books specifically covered this, but what, exactly,
>>>>makes Tom Riddle the feared Dark Lord, other than his own proclamation
>>>>and Dark nature? Granted, as a young wizard he was sadistic,
>>>>inquisitive, ambitious. His obsession for immortality led him to the
>>>>discovery of horcruxes and he is perfectly willing to kill to make them.
>>>>But how do any of those things make him magically superior to nearly all
>>>>other wizards? Has he tapped into some realm of magic that makes him
>>>>more powerful than others? Is his extraordinary power learned, developed
>>>>or inborn?
>>>>
>>>>On Polyjuice, do you think the age of the hair matters? For instance,
>>>>you have a hair from the person you want to impersonate, but that hair
>>>>fell from the person's head ten years earlier. Would you take the form
>>>>of that person at their current age, or at the age they were when the
>>>>hair came from their head?
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>DM
>>>>---
>>>>
>>>> ,_,
>>>>(O,O)
>>>>( )
>>>>-"-"-
>>>>
>>>>dm1498 (at) gmail.com
>>>>---
>>>>"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
>>>>"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
>>>>- Lord Voldemort
>>>>
>>>>HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
>>>>CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
>>>>HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>He was a very intelligent wizard and at an early age, showed a
>>>propensity toward the exploration of the Dark Arts. I think much of it
>>>was learned and developed when he went to Albania and some was
>>>self-taught. In addition to his lack of conscience for using dark
>>>magic, he possessed what many meglomaniacs possessed: charisma. At its
>>>best, it can enchant and enthrall and at its worst, it can seduce and
>>>entrap. Voldemort's insidious charisma and his sociopathic personality
>>>were a volatile mixture. Add to that his vast knowledge of the Dark
>>>Arts and you have one very very powerful dark wizard.
>>
>>All good points, but how does any of that make him more *powerful* than
>>usual? It certainly makes him more knowledgeable, it makes him darker,
>>it may even make him a manipulator and a leader, but none of that, as
>>far as we know, increases magical ability. Unless magic is learned, one
>>would have to rely on maximizing natural skills. If magic is learned,
>>then theoretically, any wizard has the potential to be as powerful as
>>Voldemort or Dumbledore.
>
>
> That's like saying that if any person learns to draw, they'll become a
> great artist. True, everyone has potential, but there are also degrees
> of potential. There are also degrees of intelligence. I would assume
> it's similar in the wizarding world as well as the muggle world. Say,
> for example, you're listening to two pianists playing the same
> concerto. Why would one evoke tears from a listener and one not?
> Certain people have an innate aptitude or intelligence. That's why
> there are prodigies. As I said in my post, his passion and thirst for
> the dark arts, as well as his intelligence, lead him to seek out the
> darker wizards and immerse himself in the dark arts, learning all there
> was to learn. It was also his intelligence that allowed him to create
> dark arts potions of his own as well.
>
>>Compare this to the Muggle world - a serial killer is just as human (in
>>a physical sense) as a nun. His propensity for evil doesn't give him any
>> extraordinary powers over other humans. So, how does Voldemort, being
>>dark, increase his powers over other wizards?
>
>
>
> IMO, I don't think the nun/serial killer analogy is accurate. I think a
> better analogy (when it comes to Voldemort) would be to compare Hitler
> ("...just as human in a physical sense") to a nun and his "propensity
> for evil" DID give him extraordinary power. Also, I wouldn't be so
> quick to discount the charisma ingredient in the mix. That, IMO, is an
> integral part of who and what Voldemort is and the power that he
> yields.

I can't say I agree totally. I understand your point as far as Voldemort
having the charisma to gain followers, but I don't think Harry would
be the only one to defeat him if he were just a manipulator with an
army. Not everyone falls under the spell of such a person. Your Hilter
analogy is better, but his evil deeds did not make him a physically more
powerful person. He was more powerful politically, but not as an
individual, physical human - he did not gain some superior, super-human
power. Without the protection of his followers, he did not become more
difficult to kill, he was just as mortal as any other human. Voldemort,
on the other hand, can destroy and harm without his army of Death
Eaters. According to the prophesy, *no one* can defeat him other than
Harry. So what makes Voldemort so invulnerable?

--
DM
---

,_,
(O,O)
( )
-"-"-

dm1498 (at) gmail.com
---
"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
- Lord Voldemort

HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238719 ]

So, 19 März 2006 19:30

Froggy

"DM" <dm1498 [at] {REMOVE}gmail.com> wrote in message
news:IrfTf.39969$915.19909 [at] southeast.rr.com...
> wadkin2000 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>> DM wrote:
>>
>>>I'm not sure if the books specifically covered this, but what, exactly,
>>>makes Tom Riddle the feared Dark Lord, other than his own proclamation
>>>and Dark nature? Granted, as a young wizard he was sadistic,
>>>inquisitive, ambitious. His obsession for immortality led him to the
>>>discovery of horcruxes and he is perfectly willing to kill to make them.
>>>But how do any of those things make him magically superior to nearly all
>>>other wizards? Has he tapped into some realm of magic that makes him
>>>more powerful than others? Is his extraordinary power learned, developed
>>>or inborn?
>>>
>>>On Polyjuice, do you think the age of the hair matters? For instance,
>>>you have a hair from the person you want to impersonate, but that hair
>>>fell from the person's head ten years earlier. Would you take the form
>>>of that person at their current age, or at the age they were when the
>>>hair came from their head?
>>>
>>>--
>>>DM
>>>---
>>>
>>> ,_,
>>>(O,O)
>>>( )
>>>-"-"-
>>>
>>>dm1498 (at) gmail.com
>>>---
>>>"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
>>>"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
>>>- Lord Voldemort
>>>
>>>HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
>>>CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
>>>HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka
>>
>>
>>
>> He was a very intelligent wizard and at an early age, showed a
>> propensity toward the exploration of the Dark Arts. I think much of it
>> was learned and developed when he went to Albania and some was
>> self-taught. In addition to his lack of conscience for using dark
>> magic, he possessed what many meglomaniacs possessed: charisma. At its
>> best, it can enchant and enthrall and at its worst, it can seduce and
>> entrap. Voldemort's insidious charisma and his sociopathic personality
>> were a volatile mixture. Add to that his vast knowledge of the Dark
>> Arts and you have one very very powerful dark wizard.
>
> All good points, but how does any of that make him more *powerful* than
> usual? It certainly makes him more knowledgeable, it makes him darker, it
> may even make him a manipulator and a leader, but none of that, as far as
> we know, increases magical ability. Unless magic is learned, one would
> have to rely on maximizing natural skills. If magic is learned, then
> theoretically, any wizard has the potential to be as powerful as Voldemort
> or Dumbledore.
>
> Compare this to the Muggle world - a serial killer is just as human (in a
> physical sense) as a nun. His propensity for evil doesn't give him any
> extraordinary powers over other humans. So, how does Voldemort, being
> dark, increase his powers over other wizards?
>

Ok I've not seen this mentioned, but here goes. I think the power that LV
has is FEAR. Think about it, serial killers as you say don't possess
anything "special" but fear. With LV one or two evil acts can build the
reputation of being powerful as the tails escalate and grow into a bigger
proportion than they really were. LV is taking full advantage. Plus, with
DD, I think the older you are the "wiser" you are. DD was around for a long
time and able to learn different techniques etc. LV has the capacity and
the audacity (sp?) to use the things which people fear. Ok I'm rambling.
--
(*)(*)
(------)
Froggy

> --
> DM
> ---
>
> ,_,
> (O,O)
> ( )
> -"-"-
>
> dm1498 (at) gmail.com
> ---
> "RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
> "I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!" -
> Lord Voldemort
>
> HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
> CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
> HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238721 ]

So, 19 März 2006 19:41

Froggy

"Froggy" <shelbel007_2000 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message news:...
>
> "DM" <dm1498 [at] {REMOVE}gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:IrfTf.39969$915.19909 [at] southeast.rr.com...
>> wadkin2000 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>>> DM wrote:
>>>
>>>>I'm not sure if the books specifically covered this, but what, exactly,
>>>>makes Tom Riddle the feared Dark Lord, other than his own proclamation
>>>>and Dark nature? Granted, as a young wizard he was sadistic,
>>>>inquisitive, ambitious. His obsession for immortality led him to the
>>>>discovery of horcruxes and he is perfectly willing to kill to make them.
>>>>But how do any of those things make him magically superior to nearly all
>>>>other wizards? Has he tapped into some realm of magic that makes him
>>>>more powerful than others? Is his extraordinary power learned, developed
>>>>or inborn?
>>>>
>>>>On Polyjuice, do you think the age of the hair matters? For instance,
>>>>you have a hair from the person you want to impersonate, but that hair
>>>>fell from the person's head ten years earlier. Would you take the form
>>>>of that person at their current age, or at the age they were when the
>>>>hair came from their head?
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>DM
>>>>---
>>>>
>>>> ,_,
>>>>(O,O)
>>>>( )
>>>>-"-"-
>>>>
>>>>dm1498 (at) gmail.com
>>>>---
>>>>"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
>>>>"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
>>>>- Lord Voldemort
>>>>
>>>>HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
>>>>CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
>>>>HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> He was a very intelligent wizard and at an early age, showed a
>>> propensity toward the exploration of the Dark Arts. I think much of it
>>> was learned and developed when he went to Albania and some was
>>> self-taught. In addition to his lack of conscience for using dark
>>> magic, he possessed what many meglomaniacs possessed: charisma. At its
>>> best, it can enchant and enthrall and at its worst, it can seduce and
>>> entrap. Voldemort's insidious charisma and his sociopathic personality
>>> were a volatile mixture. Add to that his vast knowledge of the Dark
>>> Arts and you have one very very powerful dark wizard.
>>
>> All good points, but how does any of that make him more *powerful* than
>> usual? It certainly makes him more knowledgeable, it makes him darker, it
>> may even make him a manipulator and a leader, but none of that, as far as
>> we know, increases magical ability. Unless magic is learned, one would
>> have to rely on maximizing natural skills. If magic is learned, then
>> theoretically, any wizard has the potential to be as powerful as
>> Voldemort or Dumbledore.
>>
>> Compare this to the Muggle world - a serial killer is just as human (in a
>> physical sense) as a nun. His propensity for evil doesn't give him any
>> extraordinary powers over other humans. So, how does Voldemort, being
>> dark, increase his powers over other wizards?
>>
>
Ok I've not seen this mentioned, but here goes. I think the power that LV
has is FEAR. Think about it, serial killers as you say don't possess
anything "special" but fear. With LV one or two evil acts can build the
reputation of being powerful as the tails escalate and grow into a bigger
proportion than they really were. LV is taking full advantage. Plus, with
DD, I think the older you are the "wiser" you are. DD was around for a long
time and able to learn different techniques etc. LV has the capacity and
the audacity (sp?) to use the things which people fear. Ok I'm rambling.
--
(*)(*)
(------)
Froggy
>
>
>> --
>> DM
>> ---
>>
>> ,_,
>> (O,O)
>> ( )
>> -"-"-
>>
>> dm1498 (at) gmail.com
>> ---
>> "RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
>> "I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!" -
>> Lord Voldemort
>>
>> HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
>> CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
>> HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka
>
>

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238723 ]

So, 19 März 2006 19:55

drusilla

> DM wrote:
>> I'm not sure if the books specifically covered this, but what, exactly,
>> makes Tom Riddle the feared Dark Lord, other than his own proclamation
>> and Dark nature? Granted, as a young wizard he was sadistic,
>> inquisitive, ambitious. His obsession for immortality led him to the
>> discovery of horcruxes and he is perfectly willing to kill to make them.
>> But how do any of those things make him magically superior to nearly all
>> other wizards? Has he tapped into some realm of magic that makes him
>> more powerful than others? Is his extraordinary power learned, developed
>> or inborn?

I think is learned: he did study hard in order to be wiser and more
powerful than others. which is not wrong unless yu use your power as he
did.
Yet, I still don't see the 'great but terrible things he has done': he
didn't invent anything and he sends other people to do his dirty jobs
so... Personally, he doesn't impress me hat much.

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238724 ]

So, 19 März 2006 20:01

wadkin2000

DM wrote:
> wadkin2000 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> > DM wrote:
> >
> >>wadkin2000 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> >>
> >>>DM wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I'm not sure if the books specifically covered this, but what, exactly,
> >>>>makes Tom Riddle the feared Dark Lord, other than his own proclamation
> >>>>and Dark nature? Granted, as a young wizard he was sadistic,
> >>>>inquisitive, ambitious. His obsession for immortality led him to the
> >>>>discovery of horcruxes and he is perfectly willing to kill to make them.
> >>>>But how do any of those things make him magically superior to nearly all
> >>>>other wizards? Has he tapped into some realm of magic that makes him
> >>>>more powerful than others? Is his extraordinary power learned, developed
> >>>>or inborn?
> >>>>
> >>>>On Polyjuice, do you think the age of the hair matters? For instance,
> >>>>you have a hair from the person you want to impersonate, but that hair
> >>>>fell from the person's head ten years earlier. Would you take the form
> >>>>of that person at their current age, or at the age they were when the
> >>>>hair came from their head?
> >>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>DM
> >>>>---
> >>>>
> >>>> ,_,
> >>>>(O,O)
> >>>>( )
> >>>>-"-"-
> >>>>
> >>>>dm1498 (at) gmail.com
> >>>>---
> >>>>"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
> >>>>"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
> >>>>- Lord Voldemort
> >>>>
> >>>>HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
> >>>>CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
> >>>>HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>He was a very intelligent wizard and at an early age, showed a
> >>>propensity toward the exploration of the Dark Arts. I think much of it
> >>>was learned and developed when he went to Albania and some was
> >>>self-taught. In addition to his lack of conscience for using dark
> >>>magic, he possessed what many meglomaniacs possessed: charisma. At its
> >>>best, it can enchant and enthrall and at its worst, it can seduce and
> >>>entrap. Voldemort's insidious charisma and his sociopathic personality
> >>>were a volatile mixture. Add to that his vast knowledge of the Dark
> >>>Arts and you have one very very powerful dark wizard.
> >>
> >>All good points, but how does any of that make him more *powerful* than
> >>usual? It certainly makes him more knowledgeable, it makes him darker,
> >>it may even make him a manipulator and a leader, but none of that, as
> >>far as we know, increases magical ability. Unless magic is learned, one
> >>would have to rely on maximizing natural skills. If magic is learned,
> >>then theoretically, any wizard has the potential to be as powerful as
> >>Voldemort or Dumbledore.
> >
> >
> > That's like saying that if any person learns to draw, they'll become a
> > great artist. True, everyone has potential, but there are also degrees
> > of potential. There are also degrees of intelligence. I would assume
> > it's similar in the wizarding world as well as the muggle world. Say,
> > for example, you're listening to two pianists playing the same
> > concerto. Why would one evoke tears from a listener and one not?
> > Certain people have an innate aptitude or intelligence. That's why
> > there are prodigies. As I said in my post, his passion and thirst for
> > the dark arts, as well as his intelligence, lead him to seek out the
> > darker wizards and immerse himself in the dark arts, learning all there
> > was to learn. It was also his intelligence that allowed him to create
> > dark arts potions of his own as well.
> >
> >>Compare this to the Muggle world - a serial killer is just as human (in
> >>a physical sense) as a nun. His propensity for evil doesn't give him any
> >> extraordinary powers over other humans. So, how does Voldemort, being
> >>dark, increase his powers over other wizards?
> >
> >
> >
> > IMO, I don't think the nun/serial killer analogy is accurate. I think a
> > better analogy (when it comes to Voldemort) would be to compare Hitler
> > ("...just as human in a physical sense") to a nun and his "propensity
> > for evil" DID give him extraordinary power. Also, I wouldn't be so
> > quick to discount the charisma ingredient in the mix. That, IMO, is an
> > integral part of who and what Voldemort is and the power that he
> > yields.
>
> I can't say I agree totally. I understand your point as far as Voldemort
> having the charisma to gain followers, but I don't think Harry would
> be the only one to defeat him if he were just a manipulator with an
> army. Not everyone falls under the spell of such a person. Your Hilter
> analogy is better, but his evil deeds did not make him a physically more
> powerful person. He was more powerful politically, but not as an
> individual, physical human - he did not gain some superior, super-human
> power. Without the protection of his followers, he did not become more
> difficult to kill, he was just as mortal as any other human. Voldemort,
> on the other hand, can destroy and harm without his army of Death
> Eaters. According to the prophesy, *no one* can defeat him other than
> Harry. So what makes Voldemort so invulnerable?
>
> --
> DM
> ---
>
> ,_,
> (O,O)
> ( )
> -"-"-
>
> dm1498 (at) gmail.com
> ---
> "RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
> "I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
> - Lord Voldemort
>
> HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
> CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
> HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka

He also knows more dark magic (spells, potions, etc) than any other
wizard (his only equal being DD), is quite expert at using them, and
doesn't care if he uses them indiscriminately in order to achieve what
he wants. If you're up against someone like that, how do you fight
them? How do you fight an accomplished Occlumens and Legilmens who
knows all of the above...whose modus operandi is "torture and kill
first, ask no questions later"? It's like shoveling snow in a
blizzard! You can't fight him with knowledge or intelligence or
experience, because he's more knowledgeable, more intelligent and more
experienced than you! That, in my mind, is a symbol of power. IMO, the
only way to vanquish him is through guile and cunning and a desperate
sense to stay alive!

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238727 ]

So, 19 März 2006 20:08

Kish

DM wrote:
> wadkin2000 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>

Could you please snip old not-being-addressed quoted text? Thanks!

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238738 ]

So, 19 März 2006 21:49

Froggy wrote:
> "DM" <dm1498 [at] {REMOVE}gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:IrfTf.39969$915.19909 [at] southeast.rr.com...
>
>>wadkin2000 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>>DM wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I'm not sure if the books specifically covered this, but what, exactly,
>>>>makes Tom Riddle the feared Dark Lord, other than his own proclamation
>>>>and Dark nature? Granted, as a young wizard he was sadistic,
>>>>inquisitive, ambitious. His obsession for immortality led him to the
>>>>discovery of horcruxes and he is perfectly willing to kill to make them.
>>>>But how do any of those things make him magically superior to nearly all
>>>>other wizards? Has he tapped into some realm of magic that makes him
>>>>more powerful than others? Is his extraordinary power learned, developed
>>>>or inborn?
>>>>
>>>>On Polyjuice, do you think the age of the hair matters? For instance,
>>>>you have a hair from the person you want to impersonate, but that hair
>>>>fell from the person's head ten years earlier. Would you take the form
>>>>of that person at their current age, or at the age they were when the
>>>>hair came from their head?
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>DM
>>>>---
>>>>
>>>> ,_,
>>>>(O,O)
>>>>( )
>>>>-"-"-
>>>>
>>>>dm1498 (at) gmail.com
>>>>---
>>>>"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
>>>>"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
>>>>- Lord Voldemort
>>>>
>>>>HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
>>>>CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
>>>>HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>He was a very intelligent wizard and at an early age, showed a
>>>propensity toward the exploration of the Dark Arts. I think much of it
>>>was learned and developed when he went to Albania and some was
>>>self-taught. In addition to his lack of conscience for using dark
>>>magic, he possessed what many meglomaniacs possessed: charisma. At its
>>>best, it can enchant and enthrall and at its worst, it can seduce and
>>>entrap. Voldemort's insidious charisma and his sociopathic personality
>>>were a volatile mixture. Add to that his vast knowledge of the Dark
>>>Arts and you have one very very powerful dark wizard.
>>
>>All good points, but how does any of that make him more *powerful* than
>>usual? It certainly makes him more knowledgeable, it makes him darker, it
>>may even make him a manipulator and a leader, but none of that, as far as
>>we know, increases magical ability. Unless magic is learned, one would
>>have to rely on maximizing natural skills. If magic is learned, then
>>theoretically, any wizard has the potential to be as powerful as Voldemort
>>or Dumbledore.
>>
>>Compare this to the Muggle world - a serial killer is just as human (in a
>>physical sense) as a nun. His propensity for evil doesn't give him any
>>extraordinary powers over other humans. So, how does Voldemort, being
>>dark, increase his powers over other wizards?
>>
>
>
> Ok I've not seen this mentioned, but here goes. I think the power that LV
> has is FEAR. Think about it, serial killers as you say don't possess
> anything "special" but fear. With LV one or two evil acts can build the
> reputation of being powerful as the tails escalate and grow into a bigger
> proportion than they really were. LV is taking full advantage. Plus, with
> DD, I think the older you are the "wiser" you are. DD was around for a long
> time and able to learn different techniques etc. LV has the capacity and
> the audacity (sp?) to use the things which people fear. Ok I'm rambling.

A good theory and probably, in part, true. But it doesn't explain why no
one other than Harry is capable of defeating him. What is it that puts
Voldemort above all others as far as magical ability? No one else can
compete with him magically. Even the great Dumbledore could not defeat
him. Why? What power does he have that no others have that only Harry's
ability to love can defeat, and how did he acquire that power?

Maybe we should be exploring the contrary power to love. Hate? Evil? Fear?

--
DM
---

,_,
(O,O)
( )
-"-"-

dm1498 (at) gmail.com
---
"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
- Lord Voldemort

HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238741 ]

So, 19 März 2006 21:56

wadkin2000 [at] yahoo.com wrote:

> DM wrote:
>
>>wadkin2000 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>>DM wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>wadkin2000 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>DM wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm not sure if the books specifically covered this, but what, exactly,
>>>>>>makes Tom Riddle the feared Dark Lord, other than his own proclamation
>>>>>>and Dark nature? Granted, as a young wizard he was sadistic,
>>>>>>inquisitive, ambitious. His obsession for immortality led him to the
>>>>>>discovery of horcruxes and he is perfectly willing to kill to make them.
>>>>>>But how do any of those things make him magically superior to nearly all
>>>>>>other wizards? Has he tapped into some realm of magic that makes him
>>>>>>more powerful than others? Is his extraordinary power learned, developed
>>>>>>or inborn?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On Polyjuice, do you think the age of the hair matters? For instance,
>>>>>>you have a hair from the person you want to impersonate, but that hair
>>>>>>fell from the person's head ten years earlier. Would you take the form
>>>>>>of that person at their current age, or at the age they were when the
>>>>>>hair came from their head?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>DM
>>>>>>---
>>>>>>
>>>>>>,_,
>>>>>>(O,O)
>>>>>>( )
>>>>>>-"-"-
>>>>>>
>>>>>>dm1498 (at) gmail.com
>>>>>>---
>>>>>>"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
>>>>>>"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
>>>>>>- Lord Voldemort
>>>>>>
>>>>>>HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
>>>>>>CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
>>>>>>HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>He was a very intelligent wizard and at an early age, showed a
>>>>>propensity toward the exploration of the Dark Arts. I think much of it
>>>>>was learned and developed when he went to Albania and some was
>>>>>self-taught. In addition to his lack of conscience for using dark
>>>>>magic, he possessed what many meglomaniacs possessed: charisma. At its
>>>>>best, it can enchant and enthrall and at its worst, it can seduce and
>>>>>entrap. Voldemort's insidious charisma and his sociopathic personality
>>>>>were a volatile mixture. Add to that his vast knowledge of the Dark
>>>>>Arts and you have one very very powerful dark wizard.
>>>>
>>>>All good points, but how does any of that make him more *powerful* than
>>>>usual? It certainly makes him more knowledgeable, it makes him darker,
>>>>it may even make him a manipulator and a leader, but none of that, as
>>>>far as we know, increases magical ability. Unless magic is learned, one
>>>>would have to rely on maximizing natural skills. If magic is learned,
>>>>then theoretically, any wizard has the potential to be as powerful as
>>>>Voldemort or Dumbledore.
>>>
>>>
>>>That's like saying that if any person learns to draw, they'll become a
>>>great artist. True, everyone has potential, but there are also degrees
>>>of potential. There are also degrees of intelligence. I would assume
>>>it's similar in the wizarding world as well as the muggle world. Say,
>>>for example, you're listening to two pianists playing the same
>>>concerto. Why would one evoke tears from a listener and one not?
>>>Certain people have an innate aptitude or intelligence. That's why
>>>there are prodigies. As I said in my post, his passion and thirst for
>>>the dark arts, as well as his intelligence, lead him to seek out the
>>>darker wizards and immerse himself in the dark arts, learning all there
>>>was to learn. It was also his intelligence that allowed him to create
>>>dark arts potions of his own as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>>Compare this to the Muggle world - a serial killer is just as human (in
>>>>a physical sense) as a nun. His propensity for evil doesn't give him any
>>>> extraordinary powers over other humans. So, how does Voldemort, being
>>>>dark, increase his powers over other wizards?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>IMO, I don't think the nun/serial killer analogy is accurate. I think a
>>>better analogy (when it comes to Voldemort) would be to compare Hitler
>>>("...just as human in a physical sense") to a nun and his "propensity
>>>for evil" DID give him extraordinary power. Also, I wouldn't be so
>>>quick to discount the charisma ingredient in the mix. That, IMO, is an
>>>integral part of who and what Voldemort is and the power that he
>>>yields.
>>
>>I can't say I agree totally. I understand your point as far as Voldemort
>> having the charisma to gain followers, but I don't think Harry would
>>be the only one to defeat him if he were just a manipulator with an
>>army. Not everyone falls under the spell of such a person. Your Hilter
>>analogy is better, but his evil deeds did not make him a physically more
>>powerful person. He was more powerful politically, but not as an
>>individual, physical human - he did not gain some superior, super-human
>>power. Without the protection of his followers, he did not become more
>>difficult to kill, he was just as mortal as any other human. Voldemort,
>>on the other hand, can destroy and harm without his army of Death
>>Eaters. According to the prophesy, *no one* can defeat him other than
>>Harry. So what makes Voldemort so invulnerable?
>>
>>--
>>DM
>>---
>>
>> ,_,
>>(O,O)
>>( )
>>-"-"-
>>
>>dm1498 (at) gmail.com
>>---
>>"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
>>"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
>>- Lord Voldemort
>>
>>HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
>>CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
>>HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka
>
>
>
> He also knows more dark magic (spells, potions, etc) than any other
> wizard (his only equal being DD), is quite expert at using them, and
> doesn't care if he uses them indiscriminately in order to achieve what
> he wants. If you're up against someone like that, how do you fight
> them? How do you fight an accomplished Occlumens and Legilmens who
> knows all of the above...whose modus operandi is "torture and kill
> first, ask no questions later"? It's like shoveling snow in a
> blizzard! You can't fight him with knowledge or intelligence or
> experience, because he's more knowledgeable, more intelligent and more
> experienced than you! That, in my mind, is a symbol of power. IMO, the
> only way to vanquish him is through guile and cunning and a desperate
> sense to stay alive!
>

But wouldn't others, besides Harry, possess 'guile' and 'cunning' and
have a desperate sense to stay alive? Harry cannot be the only one with
those qualities.

--
DM
---

,_,
(O,O)
( )
-"-"-

dm1498 (at) gmail.com
---
"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
- Lord Voldemort

HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238742 ]

So, 19 März 2006 21:51

drusilla wrote:

>> DM wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not sure if the books specifically covered this, but what, exactly,
>>> makes Tom Riddle the feared Dark Lord, other than his own proclamation
>>> and Dark nature? Granted, as a young wizard he was sadistic,
>>> inquisitive, ambitious. His obsession for immortality led him to the
>>> discovery of horcruxes and he is perfectly willing to kill to make them.
>>> But how do any of those things make him magically superior to nearly all
>>> other wizards? Has he tapped into some realm of magic that makes him
>>> more powerful than others? Is his extraordinary power learned, developed
>>> or inborn?
>
>
> I think is learned: he did study hard in order to be wiser and more
> powerful than others. which is not wrong unless yu use your power as he
> did.
> Yet, I still don't see the 'great but terrible things he has done': he
> didn't invent anything and he sends other people to do his dirty jobs
> so... Personally, he doesn't impress me hat much.

If his abilities are learned, then it would be reasonable to assume
others could match that learning, and thus be equal to him. So Harry
should not be the only one capable of defeating him.

--
DM
---

,_,
(O,O)
( )
-"-"-

dm1498 (at) gmail.com
---
"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
- Lord Voldemort

HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238743 ]

So, 19 März 2006 21:58

Kish wrote:

> DM wrote:
>
>> wadkin2000 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>
> Could you please snip old not-being-addressed quoted text? Thanks!

I felt the quoted all related to the discussion, but I will try snip a
bit next time. :)

--
DM
---

,_,
(O,O)
( )
-"-"-

dm1498 (at) gmail.com
---
"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
- Lord Voldemort

HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238744 ]

So, 19 März 2006 22:00

Froggy

>> Ok I've not seen this mentioned, but here goes. I think the power that
>> LV has is FEAR. Think about it, serial killers as you say don't possess
>> anything "special" but fear. With LV one or two evil acts can build
>> the reputation of being powerful as the tails escalate and grow into a
>> bigger proportion than they really were. LV is taking full advantage.
>> Plus, with DD, I think the older you are the "wiser" you are. DD was
>> around for a long time and able to learn different techniques etc. LV
>> has the capacity and the audacity (sp?) to use the things which people
>> fear. Ok I'm rambling.
>
> A good theory and probably, in part, true. But it doesn't explain why no
> one other than Harry is capable of defeating him. What is it that puts
> Voldemort above all others as far as magical ability? No one else can
> compete with him magically. Even the great Dumbledore could not defeat
> him. Why? What power does he have that no others have that only Harry's
> ability to love can defeat, and how did he acquire that power?
>

Well, I think maybe Jo will cover that in the last book. Like I said maybe
it's the fact that no one had the "balls" to use the dark arts as LV did.

> Maybe we should be exploring the contrary power to love. Hate? Evil? Fear?
>

That is why I was thinking Fear is one of the factors to LV's power. Since
Lily died to save Harry maybe the exact opposite of Hate can kill LV which
would be Love? JAT
--
(*)(*)
(------)
Froggy

> --
> DM
> ---
>
> ,_,
> (O,O)
> ( )
> -"-"-
>
> dm1498 (at) gmail.com
> ---
> "RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
> "I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!" -
> Lord Voldemort
>
> HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
> CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
> HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238745 ]

So, 19 März 2006 22:11

drusilla

DM escribió:
> Froggy wrote:

>> Ok I've not seen this mentioned, but here goes. I think the power
>> that LV has is FEAR. Think about it, serial killers as you say don't
>> possess anything "special" but fear. With LV one or two evil acts
>> can build the reputation of being powerful as the tails escalate and
>> grow into a bigger proportion than they really were. LV is taking
>> full advantage. Plus, with DD, I think the older you are the "wiser"
>> you are. DD was around for a long time and able to learn different
>> techniques etc. LV has the capacity and the audacity (sp?) to use the
>> things which people fear. Ok I'm rambling.

There is the fact that LV is a skilled Legilimens and knows *exactly*
what people thinks, something the regular serial killer can't.
Personally, I think the magical community is quite easily to scare: ha
has that on his side too.

> A good theory and probably, in part, true. But it doesn't explain why no
> one other than Harry is capable of defeating him. What is it that puts
> Voldemort above all others as far as magical ability?

I think is not about what Harry is capable of. His power is the love,
yes, we know that. But the prophecy might mean something like there will
be somehow an event in which the needed of love will be required and
Harry will have this against LV: so far, the love has saved Harry twice
(Godric's Hollow, the MoM).

No one else can
> compete with him magically. Even the great Dumbledore could not defeat
> him. Why? What power does he have that no others have that only Harry's
> ability to love can defeat, and how did he acquire that power?

So far, LV is quite arrogant and sure about his power and his followers.
And look how one of his followers stole found out about his big secret
and even took it from its place. A twisted way of saying he has no
friends, unlike Harry, who have the love of his friends.

> Maybe we should be exploring the contrary power to love. Hate? Evil? Fear?

LV does fear dead, that's a flaw that had caused, while saved and
preserved his life, to be also vulnerable. Harry's soul, as DD so wisely
pointed out, is the opposite of LV's: intact and pure and I think this
might be decisive in the moment of their final match in a way we don't
know yet.

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238747 ]

So, 19 März 2006 22:15

drusilla

DM escribió:
> drusilla wrote:
>
>>> DM wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm not sure if the books specifically covered this, but what, exactly,
>>>> makes Tom Riddle the feared Dark Lord, other than his own proclamation
>>>> and Dark nature? Granted, as a young wizard he was sadistic,
>>>> inquisitive, ambitious. His obsession for immortality led him to the
>>>> discovery of horcruxes and he is perfectly willing to kill to make
>>>> them.
>>>> But how do any of those things make him magically superior to nearly
>>>> all
>>>> other wizards? Has he tapped into some realm of magic that makes him
>>>> more powerful than others? Is his extraordinary power learned,
>>>> developed
>>>> or inborn?
>>
>>
>> I think is learned: he did study hard in order to be wiser and more
>> powerful than others. which is not wrong unless yu use your power as
>> he did.
>> Yet, I still don't see the 'great but terrible things he has done': he
>> didn't invent anything and he sends other people to do his dirty jobs
>> so... Personally, he doesn't impress me hat much.
>
> If his abilities are learned, then it would be reasonable to assume
> others could match that learning, and thus be equal to him. So Harry
> should not be the only one capable of defeating him.

But the only reason that makes Harry to be the one capable to defeating
LV is that LV caused that when he decided that baby to be 'the one'.
That also caused Harry to have powers that LV has, even access to his
mind, which no one else has. Now, how is that relevant on him defeating?
Wait for book 7.

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238751 ]

So, 19 März 2006 22:25

Froggy wrote:

>>>Ok I've not seen this mentioned, but here goes. I think the power that
>>>LV has is FEAR. Think about it, serial killers as you say don't possess
>>>anything "special" but fear. With LV one or two evil acts can build
>>>the reputation of being powerful as the tails escalate and grow into a
>>>bigger proportion than they really were. LV is taking full advantage.
>>>Plus, with DD, I think the older you are the "wiser" you are. DD was
>>>around for a long time and able to learn different techniques etc. LV
>>>has the capacity and the audacity (sp?) to use the things which people
>>>fear. Ok I'm rambling.
>>
>>A good theory and probably, in part, true. But it doesn't explain why no
>>one other than Harry is capable of defeating him. What is it that puts
>>Voldemort above all others as far as magical ability? No one else can
>>compete with him magically. Even the great Dumbledore could not defeat
>>him. Why? What power does he have that no others have that only Harry's
>>ability to love can defeat, and how did he acquire that power?
>>
>
>
> Well, I think maybe Jo will cover that in the last book. Like I said maybe
> it's the fact that no one had the "balls" to use the dark arts as LV did.
>

I'm sure it will be covered in book 7 (or I'll be very disappointed),
but we shall still speculate! :)

Unless Voldie is using some little known Dark Arts, I just don't see
that as being enough to catapult a wizard to nearly a deity. Surely
there must be some who can counter Dark Arts, even of that magnitude.

>
>
>>Maybe we should be exploring the contrary power to love. Hate? Evil? Fear?
>>
>
>
> That is why I was thinking Fear is one of the factors to LV's power. Since
> Lily died to save Harry maybe the exact opposite of Hate can kill LV which
> would be Love? JAT

I think you are on to something there. "For every action there is an
equal and opposite reaction." If we could imagine an exactly opposite
parallel to Harry's life, would we be seeing Tom Riddle's life?

--
DM
---

,_,
(O,O)
( )
-"-"-

dm1498 (at) gmail.com
---
"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
- Lord Voldemort

HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238753 ]

So, 19 März 2006 22:28

drusilla wrote:

> DM escribió:
>
>> Froggy wrote:
>
>
>>> Ok I've not seen this mentioned, but here goes. I think the power
>>> that LV has is FEAR. Think about it, serial killers as you say don't
>>> possess anything "special" but fear. With LV one or two evil acts
>>> can build the reputation of being powerful as the tails escalate and
>>> grow into a bigger proportion than they really were. LV is taking
>>> full advantage. Plus, with DD, I think the older you are the "wiser"
>>> you are. DD was around for a long time and able to learn different
>>> techniques etc. LV has the capacity and the audacity (sp?) to use
>>> the things which people fear. Ok I'm rambling.
>
>
> There is the fact that LV is a skilled Legilimens and knows *exactly*
> what people thinks, something the regular serial killer can't.
> Personally, I think the magical community is quite easily to scare: ha
> has that on his side too.
>
>> A good theory and probably, in part, true. But it doesn't explain why
>> no one other than Harry is capable of defeating him. What is it that
>> puts Voldemort above all others as far as magical ability?
>
>
> I think is not about what Harry is capable of. His power is the love,
> yes, we know that. But the prophecy might mean something like there will
> be somehow an event in which the needed of love will be required and
> Harry will have this against LV: so far, the love has saved Harry twice
> (Godric's Hollow, the MoM).
>

That's an excellent theory. Perhaps both will face defeat but some how
love helps Harry succeed where Voldemort, lacking the ability to love,
fails.

--
DM
---

,_,
(O,O)
( )
-"-"-

dm1498 (at) gmail.com
---
"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
- Lord Voldemort

HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238755 ]

So, 19 März 2006 22:35

Froggy

"DM" <dm1498 [at] {REMOVE}gmail.com> wrote in message
news:G%jTf.70470$%84.61308 [at] tornado.southeast.rr.com...
> Froggy wrote:
>
>>>>Ok I've not seen this mentioned, but here goes. I think the power that
>>>>LV has is FEAR. Think about it, serial killers as you say don't possess
>>>>anything "special" but fear. With LV one or two evil acts can build
>>>>the reputation of being powerful as the tails escalate and grow into a
>>>>bigger proportion than they really were. LV is taking full advantage.
>>>>Plus, with DD, I think the older you are the "wiser" you are. DD was
>>>>around for a long time and able to learn different techniques etc. LV
>>>>has the capacity and the audacity (sp?) to use the things which people
>>>>fear. Ok I'm rambling.
>>>
>>>A good theory and probably, in part, true. But it doesn't explain why no
>>>one other than Harry is capable of defeating him. What is it that puts
>>>Voldemort above all others as far as magical ability? No one else can
>>>compete with him magically. Even the great Dumbledore could not defeat
>>>him. Why? What power does he have that no others have that only Harry's
>>>ability to love can defeat, and how did he acquire that power?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Well, I think maybe Jo will cover that in the last book. Like I said
>> maybe it's the fact that no one had the "balls" to use the dark arts as
>> LV did.
>>
>
> I'm sure it will be covered in book 7 (or I'll be very disappointed), but
> we shall still speculate! :)
>
> Unless Voldie is using some little known Dark Arts, I just don't see that
> as being enough to catapult a wizard to nearly a deity. Surely there must
> be some who can counter Dark Arts, even of that magnitude.
>
>>
>>
>>>Maybe we should be exploring the contrary power to love. Hate? Evil?
>>>Fear?
>>>
>>
>>
>> That is why I was thinking Fear is one of the factors to LV's power.
>> Since Lily died to save Harry maybe the exact opposite of Hate can kill
>> LV which would be Love? JAT
>
> I think you are on to something there. "For every action there is an equal
> and opposite reaction." If we could imagine an exactly opposite parallel
> to Harry's life, would we be seeing Tom Riddle's life?
>

I wasn't thinking along the lines of life parallels but, the moment that
created Harry as LV's enemy which was Lily's sacrifice of Love.The event
that we don't really know of that moment of Hate to LV. I hope I'm making
myself clear?
--
(*)(*)
(------)
Froggy

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238756 ]

So, 19 März 2006 22:41

Froggy wrote:

> "DM" <dm1498 [at] {REMOVE}gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:G%jTf.70470$%84.61308 [at] tornado.southeast.rr.com...
>
>>Froggy wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>Ok I've not seen this mentioned, but here goes. I think the power that
>>>>>LV has is FEAR. Think about it, serial killers as you say don't possess
>>>>>anything "special" but fear. With LV one or two evil acts can build
>>>>>the reputation of being powerful as the tails escalate and grow into a
>>>>>bigger proportion than they really were. LV is taking full advantage.
>>>>>Plus, with DD, I think the older you are the "wiser" you are. DD was
>>>>>around for a long time and able to learn different techniques etc. LV
>>>>>has the capacity and the audacity (sp?) to use the things which people
>>>>>fear. Ok I'm rambling.
>>>>
>>>>A good theory and probably, in part, true. But it doesn't explain why no
>>>>one other than Harry is capable of defeating him. What is it that puts
>>>>Voldemort above all others as far as magical ability? No one else can
>>>>compete with him magically. Even the great Dumbledore could not defeat
>>>>him. Why? What power does he have that no others have that only Harry's
>>>>ability to love can defeat, and how did he acquire that power?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Well, I think maybe Jo will cover that in the last book. Like I said
>>>maybe it's the fact that no one had the "balls" to use the dark arts as
>>>LV did.
>>>
>>
>>I'm sure it will be covered in book 7 (or I'll be very disappointed), but
>>we shall still speculate! :)
>>
>>Unless Voldie is using some little known Dark Arts, I just don't see that
>>as being enough to catapult a wizard to nearly a deity. Surely there must
>>be some who can counter Dark Arts, even of that magnitude.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>Maybe we should be exploring the contrary power to love. Hate? Evil?
>>>>Fear?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>That is why I was thinking Fear is one of the factors to LV's power.
>>>Since Lily died to save Harry maybe the exact opposite of Hate can kill
>>>LV which would be Love? JAT
>>
>>I think you are on to something there. "For every action there is an equal
>>and opposite reaction." If we could imagine an exactly opposite parallel
>>to Harry's life, would we be seeing Tom Riddle's life?
>>
>
>
> I wasn't thinking along the lines of life parallels but, the moment that
> created Harry as LV's enemy which was Lily's sacrifice of Love.The event
> that we don't really know of that moment of Hate to LV. I hope I'm making
> myself clear?

I understood what you meant, I was just expanding the theory. :)

--
DM
---

,_,
(O,O)
( )
-"-"-

dm1498 (at) gmail.com
---
"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
- Lord Voldemort

HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238767 ]

So, 19 März 2006 23:16

Froggy

"DM" <dm1498 [at] {REMOVE}gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1ekTf.76397$no3.65917 [at] tornado.southeast.rr.com...
> Froggy wrote:
>
>> "DM" <dm1498 [at] {REMOVE}gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:G%jTf.70470$%84.61308 [at] tornado.southeast.rr.com...
>>
>>>Froggy wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>Ok I've not seen this mentioned, but here goes. I think the power
>>>>>>that LV has is FEAR. Think about it, serial killers as you say don't
>>>>>>possess anything "special" but fear. With LV one or two evil acts
>>>>>>can build the reputation of being powerful as the tails escalate and
>>>>>>grow into a bigger proportion than they really were. LV is taking
>>>>>>full advantage. Plus, with DD, I think the older you are the "wiser"
>>>>>>you are. DD was around for a long time and able to learn different
>>>>>>techniques etc. LV has the capacity and the audacity (sp?) to use the
>>>>>>things which people fear. Ok I'm rambling.
>>>>>
>>>>>A good theory and probably, in part, true. But it doesn't explain why
>>>>>no one other than Harry is capable of defeating him. What is it that
>>>>>puts Voldemort above all others as far as magical ability? No one else
>>>>>can compete with him magically. Even the great Dumbledore could not
>>>>>defeat him. Why? What power does he have that no others have that only
>>>>>Harry's ability to love can defeat, and how did he acquire that power?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Well, I think maybe Jo will cover that in the last book. Like I said
>>>>maybe it's the fact that no one had the "balls" to use the dark arts as
>>>>LV did.
>>>>
>>>
>>>I'm sure it will be covered in book 7 (or I'll be very disappointed), but
>>>we shall still speculate! :)
>>>
>>>Unless Voldie is using some little known Dark Arts, I just don't see that
>>>as being enough to catapult a wizard to nearly a deity. Surely there must
>>>be some who can counter Dark Arts, even of that magnitude.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Maybe we should be exploring the contrary power to love. Hate? Evil?
>>>>>Fear?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>That is why I was thinking Fear is one of the factors to LV's power.
>>>>Since Lily died to save Harry maybe the exact opposite of Hate can kill
>>>>LV which would be Love? JAT
>>>
>>>I think you are on to something there. "For every action there is an
>>>equal and opposite reaction." If we could imagine an exactly opposite
>>>parallel to Harry's life, would we be seeing Tom Riddle's life?
>>>
>>
>>
>> I wasn't thinking along the lines of life parallels but, the moment that
>> created Harry as LV's enemy which was Lily's sacrifice of Love.The event
>> that we don't really know of that moment of Hate to LV. I hope I'm
>> making myself clear?
>
> I understood what you meant, I was just expanding the theory. :)
>

It's funny, the more I think on that it seems really plausible. For
example, Harry's wand and LV's wand, they were the same yet so different.
Both made of the feather of a phoenix. So why would it not be the Hate that
created the sacrifice of Love be reversed in the end and the act of Love
destroy the Hate?
--
(*)(*)
(------)
Froggy

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238779 ]

Mo, 20 März 2006 00:49

JoeMo

DM wrote:
<snip>
> A good theory and probably, in part, true. But it doesn't explain why no
> one other than Harry is capable of defeating him. What is it that puts
> Voldemort above all others as far as magical ability? No one else can
> compete with him magically. Even the great Dumbledore could not defeat
> him. Why? What power does he have that no others have that only Harry's
> ability to love can defeat, and how did he acquire that power?

Personally, I think the reason no one but Harry is capable of defeating
Voldemort isn't because of his power... but because Harry was the only
person capable of getting that memory from Slughorn (he has Lilly's
eyes) The ONLY thing that makes LV unkillable is his Horcruxes.
Something only he himself and Slughorn knew about. If Harry finds and
dsestroys all the horcruxes, IMO, he could die then and some other more
talented wizard would be perfectly capable of killing a mortal
Voldemort.

> Maybe we should be exploring the contrary power to love. Hate? Evil? Fear?
>
> --
> DM
> ---
>
> ,_,
> (O,O)
> ( )
> -"-"-
>
> dm1498 (at) gmail.com
> ---
> "RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
> "I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
> - Lord Voldemort
>
> HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
> CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
> HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238783 ]

Mo, 20 März 2006 01:45

Froggy

"JoeMo" <josephrmoore [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1142812194.093040.255590 [at] e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
>
> DM wrote:
> <snip>
>> A good theory and probably, in part, true. But it doesn't explain why no
>> one other than Harry is capable of defeating him. What is it that puts
>> Voldemort above all others as far as magical ability? No one else can
>> compete with him magically. Even the great Dumbledore could not defeat
>> him. Why? What power does he have that no others have that only Harry's
>> ability to love can defeat, and how did he acquire that power?
>
> Personally, I think the reason no one but Harry is capable of defeating
> Voldemort isn't because of his power... but because Harry was the only
> person capable of getting that memory from Slughorn (he has Lilly's
> eyes) The ONLY thing that makes LV unkillable is his Horcruxes.
> Something only he himself and Slughorn knew about. If Harry finds and
> dsestroys all the horcruxes, IMO, he could die then and some other more
> talented wizard would be perfectly capable of killing a mortal
> Voldemort.

Hmm I'm wondering if Harry were to find the very first horcrux and destroy
it, maybe a chain reaction would destroy the others? Or even, make the
other ones "weaker" therefore LV would have to use more of them to get the
full effect of his first? Am I making sense?
--
(*)(*)
(------)
Froggy

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238800 ]

Mo, 20 März 2006 01:46

Steven Sousa

Froggy wrote:

> Hmm I'm wondering if Harry were to find the very first horcrux and destroy
> it, maybe a chain reaction would destroy the others? Or even, make the
> other ones "weaker" therefore LV would have to use more of them to get the
> full effect of his first? Am I making sense?

If that were true, it would have happened immediately after the events
of Chamber of Secrets.

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238802 ]

Mo, 20 März 2006 01:58

Froggy

"Steven Sousa" <ssousa [at] adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:JcOdnQf1zfjrZoDZnZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d [at] adelphia.com...
> Froggy wrote:
>
>> Hmm I'm wondering if Harry were to find the very first horcrux and
>> destroy it, maybe a chain reaction would destroy the others? Or even,
>> make the other ones "weaker" therefore LV would have to use more of them
>> to get the full effect of his first? Am I making sense?
>
> If that were true, it would have happened immediately after the events of
> Chamber of Secrets.

Sorry I can't remember if that was the very first? Do we know for sure the
diary was it? I apologize for this lapse.
--
(*)(*)
(------)
Froggy

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238814 ]

Mo, 20 März 2006 05:58

Kish

DM wrote:

> I think you are on to something there. "For every action there is an
> equal and opposite reaction." If we could imagine an exactly opposite
> parallel to Harry's life, would we be seeing Tom Riddle's life?

No. Nowhere near. They both grew up as orphans in unhappy
circumstances, both went to Hogwarts....Actually, I think if we could
imagine an exactly opposite parallel to Harry's life, we would be seeing
Dudley's life.

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238817 ]

Mo, 20 März 2006 06:36

Jonathan Rodriguez

"DM" <dm1498 [at] {REMOVE}gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2ndTf.76366$no3.74029 [at] tornado.southeast.rr.com...
> I'm not sure if the books specifically covered this, but what, exactly,
> makes Tom Riddle the feared Dark Lord, other than his own proclamation and
> Dark nature? Granted, as a young wizard he was sadistic, inquisitive,
> ambitious. His obsession for immortality led him to the discovery of
> horcruxes and he is perfectly willing to kill to make them. But how do any
> of those things make him magically superior to nearly all other wizards?
> Has he tapped into some realm of magic that makes him more powerful than
> others? Is his extraordinary power learned, developed or inborn?

I think it has to do with the fact that most Wizards don't learn about the
Dark Magic and it tends to backfire because when a Powerful Dark Wizard
comes at you, you have no way to defend yourself because you were a decent
wizard who never thought of learning or trying to find a way to defend
yourself from them, I think we have been hinted in the books a couple of
times about this if I can Recall Rosmerta once said something about it and
Moody well not Moody but Barty Crouch impersonating Moody said something
during the first DA class Harry had with him, The Best Way to Defend
yourself against Dark Wizards is to Think like them therefore know all you
can about the Dark Arts.

Let me Note that I am talking about Powerful dark magic which isn't talked
about in Defense Against the Dark Arts Class for example the Unforgivable
Curses.

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238847 ]

Mo, 20 März 2006 10:04

friesian

DM wrote:

> A good theory and probably, in part, true. But it doesn't explain why no
> one other than Harry is capable of defeating him. What is it that puts
> Voldemort above all others as far as magical ability? No one else can
> compete with him magically. Even the great Dumbledore could not defeat
> him. Why? What power does he have that no others have that only Harry's
> ability to love can defeat, and how did he acquire that power?

How about this?

The only way to kill Voldemort is to destroy his Horcruxes. Without
those, I believe Dumbledore could easily kill Voldemort.

So, perhaps, the reason Harry is the only one with the power to kill
Voldemort is that he is the only one able to destroy the remaining
horcruxes, or at least one of them in particular.

If nobody else can destroy the horcruxes, then they do not have the
"power" to kill Voldemort.

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238851 ]

Mo, 20 März 2006 10:11

Toon

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:53:02 GMT, DM <dm1498 [at] {REMOVE}gmail.com> wrote:

>I'm not sure if the books specifically covered this, but what, exactly,
>makes Tom Riddle the feared Dark Lord, other than his own proclamation
>and Dark nature? Granted, as a young wizard he was sadistic,
>inquisitive, ambitious. His obsession for immortality led him to the
>discovery of horcruxes and he is perfectly willing to kill to make them.
>But how do any of those things make him magically superior to nearly all
>other wizards? Has he tapped into some realm of magic that makes him
>more powerful than others? Is his extraordinary power learned, developed
>or inborn?

DD says he knows more about magic than anyone, himself included. Plus
propaganda. He put on a show. he uses Unforgivables, looks creepy,
and probably had DE's infiltrate pubs and other social gatherings,
spreading rumors and Urban Legends.

>On Polyjuice, do you think the age of the hair matters? For instance,
>you have a hair from the person you want to impersonate, but that hair
>fell from the person's head ten years earlier. Would you take the form
>of that person at their current age, or at the age they were when the
>hair came from their head?

The DNA should still age.

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238852 ]

Mo, 20 März 2006 10:13

Toon

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:36:16 GMT, DM <dm1498 [at] {REMOVE}gmail.com> wrote:

>TakenEvent wrote:
>
>> "DM" <dm1498 [at] {REMOVE}gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:2ndTf.76366$no3.74029 [at] tornado.southeast.rr.com...
>>
>>>I'm not sure if the books specifically covered this, but what, exactly,
>>>makes Tom Riddle the feared Dark Lord, other than his own proclamation
>>>and Dark nature? Granted, as a young wizard he was sadistic,
>>>inquisitive, ambitious. His obsession for immortality led him to the
>>>discovery of horcruxes and he is perfectly willing to kill to make them.
>>>But how do any of those things make him magically superior to nearly all
>>>other wizards? Has he tapped into some realm of magic that makes him
>>>more powerful than others? Is his extraordinary power learned, developed
>>>or inborn?
>>
>>
>> Think about his lineage...
>
>Well, if you're just going to state the obvious... ;)
>
>Seriously, so, if being the heir to Slytherin gives him his great
>powers, does that mean Dumbledore's great powers are linked to a founder
>as well? Maybe Gryffindor or Ravenclaw. If so, would a possession of
>Dumbledore's also be considered an artifact of Gryffindor/Ravenclaw's?

The Founder's were the most powerful at the time. DD's ancestors
could have arose 777 years ago, and been even more powerful still.

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238864 ]

Mo, 20 März 2006 12:35

Alex Clark

DM wrote:
> A good theory and probably, in part, true. But it doesn't explain why no
> one other than Harry is capable of defeating him. What is it that puts
> Voldemort above all others as far as magical ability? . . .

I don't think that it's a simple matter of being above or below or
anything of the kind. Harry isn't the only one who can compete with
Voldemort as a wizard. He's the only one who is in the right place at
the right time, etc. To bring up serial killers again, suppose that a
killer just once drops something while committing a murder, or
disposing of the body, that he could be identified by. That might mean
that the only one with the power to catch the killer in time to stop
some of his crimes is the one who searches for clues there. But it
doesn't mean that that person is a better investigator. It just means
that they're the one who has to do it, because nobody else has the
opportunity.

According to prophecy, Voldemort was going to chose his nemesis and
mark him. He chose Harry. And he marked Harry with the failed curse
that was foiled by Lily's love. Later, when Voldy had a new body made
for him, he used Harry's blood, with Lily's protection in it, and
Dumbledore seemed to think that this was a good thing for the good
guys. I suspect that Lily's protection for Harry, and its effect on
Voldemort, will play an integral role in Voldemort's downfall. And
maybe the most important thing that Harry will actually do to defeat
Voldemort is that he will simply go on opposing him until the prophecy,
and Voldemort's reaction to it, have finished their work.

--
Alex Clark

Mad lover dorm toil (an anagram rejected by Tom Riddle)

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238868 ]

Mo, 20 März 2006 13:40

Peter

JoeMo schrieb:
> DM wrote:
> <snip>
>
>>A good theory and probably, in part, true. But it doesn't explain why no
>>one other than Harry is capable of defeating him. What is it that puts
>>Voldemort above all others as far as magical ability? No one else can
>>compete with him magically. Even the great Dumbledore could not defeat
>>him. Why? What power does he have that no others have that only Harry's
>>ability to love can defeat, and how did he acquire that power?
>
>
> Personally, I think the reason no one but Harry is capable of defeating
> Voldemort isn't because of his power... but because Harry was the only
> person capable of getting that memory from Slughorn (he has Lilly's
> eyes) The ONLY thing that makes LV unkillable is his Horcruxes.
> Something only he himself and Slughorn knew about. If Harry finds and
> dsestroys all the horcruxes, IMO, he could die then and some other more
> talented wizard would be perfectly capable of killing a mortal
> Voldemort.
>
>
>>Maybe we should be exploring the contrary power to love. Hate? Evil? Fear?
>>
>>--
>>DM
>>---
>>
>> ,_,
>>(O,O)
>>( )
>>-"-"-
>>
>>dm1498 (at) gmail.com
>>---
>>"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
>>"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
>>- Lord Voldemort
>>
>>HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
>>CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
>>HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka
>
>

But Dumbledore did already know about the Horcruxes. He had already
destroyed one, before the memory was dragged up.

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238871 ]

Mo, 20 März 2006 14:08

JoeMo

Peter wrote:
> JoeMo schrieb:
> > DM wrote:
> > <snip>
> >
> >>A good theory and probably, in part, true. But it doesn't explain why no
> >>one other than Harry is capable of defeating him. What is it that puts
> >>Voldemort above all others as far as magical ability? No one else can
> >>compete with him magically. Even the great Dumbledore could not defeat
> >>him. Why? What power does he have that no others have that only Harry's
> >>ability to love can defeat, and how did he acquire that power?
> >
> >
> > Personally, I think the reason no one but Harry is capable of defeating
> > Voldemort isn't because of his power... but because Harry was the only
> > person capable of getting that memory from Slughorn (he has Lilly's
> > eyes) The ONLY thing that makes LV unkillable is his Horcruxes.
> > Something only he himself and Slughorn knew about. If Harry finds and
> > dsestroys all the horcruxes, IMO, he could die then and some other more
> > talented wizard would be perfectly capable of killing a mortal
> > Voldemort.
> >
> >
> >>Maybe we should be exploring the contrary power to love. Hate? Evil? Fear?
> >>
> >>--
> >>DM
> >>---
> >>
> >> ,_,
> >>(O,O)
> >>( )
> >>-"-"-
> >>
> >>dm1498 (at) gmail.com
> >>---
> >>"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
> >>"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
> >>- Lord Voldemort
> >>
> >>HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
> >>CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
> >>HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka
> >
> >
>
> But Dumbledore did already know about the Horcruxes. He had already
> destroyed one, before the memory was dragged up.

Sure, but he didn't know how many... he was uncapable of getting that
information without Harry. Therefore, only Harry had the power to make
it happen.

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238880 ]

Mo, 20 März 2006 15:36

JoeMo wrote:
> Peter wrote:
-snip-
>>>
>>>
>>But Dumbledore did already know about the Horcruxes. He had already
>>destroyed one, before the memory was dragged up.
>
>
> Sure, but he didn't know how many... he was uncapable of getting that
> information without Harry. Therefore, only Harry had the power to make
> it happen.
>

If that's the case, then Harry has already accomplished his purpose and
is no longer needed.
--
DM
---

,_,
(O,O)
( )
-"-"-

dm1498 (at) gmail.com
---
"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
- Lord Voldemort

HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238881 ]

Mo, 20 März 2006 15:45

Kish wrote:

> DM wrote:
>
>> I think you are on to something there. "For every action there is an
>> equal and opposite reaction." If we could imagine an exactly opposite
>> parallel to Harry's life, would we be seeing Tom Riddle's life?
>
>
> No. Nowhere near. They both grew up as orphans in unhappy
> circumstances, both went to Hogwarts....Actually, I think if we could
> imagine an exactly opposite parallel to Harry's life, we would be seeing
> Dudley's life.

Both grew up orphans, but had different lives. Tom grew up in an
orphanage, Harry grew up with a 'family'. Harry was born to good
parents, while Tom descends from a dark family. Harry was bullied, while
Tom bullied. Tom expressed a superiority when he discovered his magical
abilities, Harry was modest.

Their lives were parallel to a certain extent, but completely opposite.
Harry's like a bizarro Voldemort.

--
DM
---

,_,
(O,O)
( )
-"-"-

dm1498 (at) gmail.com
---
"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
- Lord Voldemort

HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka

Re: Questions About Voldemort & Polyjuice [message #238883 ]

Mo, 20 März 2006 15:48

Toon wrote:

> On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:53:02 GMT, DM <dm1498 [at] {REMOVE}gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I'm not sure if the books specifically covered this, but what, exactly,
>>makes Tom Riddle the feared Dark Lord, other than his own proclamation
>>and Dark nature? Granted, as a young wizard he was sadistic,
>>inquisitive, ambitious. His obsession for immortality led him to the
>>discovery of horcruxes and he is perfectly willing to kill to make them.
>>But how do any of those things make him magically superior to nearly all
>>other wizards? Has he tapped into some realm of magic that makes him
>>more powerful than others? Is his extraordinary power learned, developed
>>or inborn?
>
>
> DD says he knows more about magic than anyone, himself included. Plus
> propaganda. He put on a show. he uses Unforgivables, looks creepy,
> and probably had DE's infiltrate pubs and other social gatherings,
> spreading rumors and Urban Legends.
>
>
>>On Polyjuice, do you think the age of the hair matters? For instance,
>>you have a hair from the person you want to impersonate, but that hair
>>fell from the person's head ten years earlier. Would you take the form
>>of that person at their current age, or at the age they were when the
>>hair came from their head?
>
>
> The DNA should still age.

So, if you used a hair from a frozen caveman or an ancient mummy, what
would you get? ;)

--
DM
---

,_,
(O,O)
( )
-"-"-

dm1498 (at) gmail.com
---
"RUN, SCABBERS, RUN!" - Jenny Lestrange
"I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
- Lord Voldemort

HPCode(v1.1) S PS++COS++POA+++*GOF+++OOTP+HBP+++FF= QA
CH+++DD+++HB-HM+*PO+++TR+AR++CM++
HP/Gi-RW/Ch-CC/Mn-FW/GW/Ol-NL/Fl-SS/Um-VK/Ka

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