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Miscellaneous / Verschiedenes » alt.fan.james-bond » stupid stuff in YOLT
stupid stuff in YOLT [message #233056] Mi, 08 März 2006 00:08
Eric Grayson  
This topic has come up lately, and you guys didn't get all of them.
Some of these are repeated from other observations.

1) SPECTRE has figured out how to control a volcano, something that
none of us has even gotten a clue about how to do.
2) They hollowed it out and built a huge base in it, within close
proximity of a sleepy Japanese fishing village, and no one noticed.
3) The Ning-Po delivered supplies there repeatedly and no one noticed.
4) They launched rockets from there repeatedly and no one noticed.
5) American and Russian astronauts, when put in captivity, will
gleefully work together to subvert their own countries' interests.
6) American and Russian astronauts are so smart they just magically
know how to operate SPECTRE's rockets, even though they've not trained
on them for years like they did on their own.
7) SPECTRE can do all the things above but for some reason they are
unable to train their own astronauts to do their bidding.
8) MI-6 is so stupid that they fake killing off their best agent in
Hong Kong, plaster his picture all over the papers, and then let him go
out on the streets without a disguise.
9) This works anyway because no one recognizes him until we see a bad
x-ray of his gun.
10) It has to be Bond because no other agent uses a Walther PPK. How
do they know this?
11) They shave Bond's chest to disguise him as a Japanese man (which
may be the most unconvincing disguise ever), yet he has so much
testosterone that he's grown a new crop of it by the last scene a
couple of days later.
12) Tanaka is hugely concerned about security, won't show his face
above ground, and yet they casually dismiss the invader from outside
and the guy who kills Aki, both major security breaches.
13) Helga Brandt is a raving genius who gets the information she needs
from Bond, does not kill him when she has him tied up, and then comes
up with some elaborate plan to kill him in a plane, which at its best,
would have aroused much more suspicion than if they'd just dumped his
dead body over the side of the Ning Po.
14) The gas that kills the fisherwoman in the underground fumarole is
gone when all the technicians use it to escape.
15) Fumaroles of this type vent high-temperature gases and lava, but
this one doesn't even hurt anyone.
16) NASA and the Russians have got many external cameras in orbit
around the planet to helpfully get external shots of the marauding
spaceships (which is dumb in itself), but they are unable to photograph
the descent of the rogue craft.

I've heard similar things leveled at Goldfinger, but, for example,
Goldfinger kills all those industrial guys in his lair just because
he's a sick bastard and wanted to show off his plans. He clearly got
off on it. The little throwaway lines, "Operation Grand Slam... I did
enjoy your report." "So did I, Mr. Bond, so did I." explains that
admirably enough.

Goldfinger also clearly got some joy in killing off Mr. Solo and Jill
Masterson, and was hoping to get some pleasure out of killing Bond as
well.

The similar conceits in YOLT are not as easily defensible or logical.

This all being said, YOLT hides the absolute stupidity of its script by
using great performances, exemplary music, fast editing, and probably
the best cinematography in the series. I'm not as prepared to dismiss
Connery's performance as sleepwalking since he has essentially nothing
to do in this film. He's never really in any danger, and there's
nothing to test his character at any point.

YOLT is a cleverly disguised Roger Moore film with all the trappings
that made the Connery pictures special. When they remade it in 1977 as
TSWLM (OK, a semi-remake), it wasn't nearly as good, except for the
PCS.

Eric

--
Re: stupid stuff in YOLT [message #233058 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 00:17
WQ  
Eric Grayson wrote:
> This topic has come up lately, and you guys didn't get all of them.
> Some of these are repeated from other observations.
>
> 1) SPECTRE has figured out how to control a volcano, something that
> none of us has even gotten a clue about how to do.
> 2) They hollowed it out and built a huge base in it, within close
> proximity of a sleepy Japanese fishing village, and no one noticed.
> 3) The Ning-Po delivered supplies there repeatedly and no one noticed.
> 4) They launched rockets from there repeatedly and no one noticed.
> 5) American and Russian astronauts, when put in captivity, will
> gleefully work together to subvert their own countries' interests.
> 6) American and Russian astronauts are so smart they just magically
> know how to operate SPECTRE's rockets, even though they've not trained
> on them for years like they did on their own.
> 7) SPECTRE can do all the things above but for some reason they are
> unable to train their own astronauts to do their bidding.
> 8) MI-6 is so stupid that they fake killing off their best agent in
> Hong Kong, plaster his picture all over the papers, and then let him go
> out on the streets without a disguise.
> 9) This works anyway because no one recognizes him until we see a bad
> x-ray of his gun.
> 10) It has to be Bond because no other agent uses a Walther PPK. How
> do they know this?
> 11) They shave Bond's chest to disguise him as a Japanese man (which
> may be the most unconvincing disguise ever), yet he has so much
> testosterone that he's grown a new crop of it by the last scene a
> couple of days later.
> 12) Tanaka is hugely concerned about security, won't show his face
> above ground, and yet they casually dismiss the invader from outside
> and the guy who kills Aki, both major security breaches.
> 13) Helga Brandt is a raving genius who gets the information she needs
> from Bond, does not kill him when she has him tied up, and then comes
> up with some elaborate plan to kill him in a plane, which at its best,
> would have aroused much more suspicion than if they'd just dumped his
> dead body over the side of the Ning Po.
> 14) The gas that kills the fisherwoman in the underground fumarole is
> gone when all the technicians use it to escape.
> 15) Fumaroles of this type vent high-temperature gases and lava, but
> this one doesn't even hurt anyone.
> 16) NASA and the Russians have got many external cameras in orbit
> around the planet to helpfully get external shots of the marauding
> spaceships (which is dumb in itself), but they are unable to photograph
> the descent of the rogue craft.
>
> I've heard similar things leveled at Goldfinger, but, for example,
> Goldfinger kills all those industrial guys in his lair just because
> he's a sick bastard and wanted to show off his plans. He clearly got
> off on it. The little throwaway lines, "Operation Grand Slam... I did
> enjoy your report." "So did I, Mr. Bond, so did I." explains that
> admirably enough.
>
> Goldfinger also clearly got some joy in killing off Mr. Solo and Jill
> Masterson, and was hoping to get some pleasure out of killing Bond as
> well.
>
> The similar conceits in YOLT are not as easily defensible or logical.
>
> This all being said, YOLT hides the absolute stupidity of its script by
> using great performances, exemplary music, fast editing, and probably
> the best cinematography in the series. I'm not as prepared to dismiss
> Connery's performance as sleepwalking since he has essentially nothing
> to do in this film. He's never really in any danger, and there's
> nothing to test his character at any point.
>
> YOLT is a cleverly disguised Roger Moore film with all the trappings
> that made the Connery pictures special. When they remade it in 1977 as
> TSWLM (OK, a semi-remake), it wasn't nearly as good, except for the
> PCS.
>
> Eric

--- Excellent perceptions, some of which had never occurred to me
before, even after reviewing the film multiple times. But I think
you've hit it right on the nail by saying that YOLT hides its absolute
stupidity by the use of great performances, exemplary music, fast
editing and probably the best cinematography in the series. Though I
wouldn't quite put all that in such superlative terms, I know exactly
what you mean. Highly skilled craftsmen can mask any kind of stupidity
and make it look if not perfect, then certainly ten times better than
it otherwise would've looked in lesser hands. If only the current EON
team could learn lessons from their predecessors and maybe, just maybe,
DAD could've been ten times better than it actually was.

>
> --
Re: stupid stuff in YOLT [message #233064 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 01:26
phil.gerrard1  
Eric wrote:

<polite snips of some excellent observations>

> When they remade it in 1977 as
> TSWLM (OK, a semi-remake), it wasn't nearly as good, except for the
> PCS.

This is the only part of your post with which I'd disagree. I think
TSWLM outdoes YOLT in many respects, and is a rare case of a remake
which is better than the original. For me, YOLT is a generally sub-par
movie where I can take pleasure in incidental moments, whereas TSWLM,
for the most part, works if you meet it on its own knowingly absurd
terms. Of course TSWLM is over-the-top, but it doesn't seem to me to
be as slack and lazy as a lot of YOLT. I'm probably being influenced
by what I know about the films' history here, but YOLT, despite the
marvellous cinematography and music, strikes me as the first utterly
formulaic Bond film, whereas TSWLM, for all its faults, has an energy
which comes from the fact that EON were trying to reinvigorate the
series.

Best

Phil
Re: stupid stuff in YOLT [message #233076 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 02:04
Will Traynor  
"phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com" <phil.gerrard1 [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1141777618.452117.169250 [at] p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> Eric wrote:
>
> <polite snips of some excellent observations>
>
>> When they remade it in 1977 as
>> TSWLM (OK, a semi-remake), it wasn't nearly as good, except for the
>> PCS.
>
> This is the only part of your post with which I'd disagree. I think
> TSWLM outdoes YOLT in many respects, and is a rare case of a remake
> which is better than the original. For me, YOLT is a generally sub-par
> movie where I can take pleasure in incidental moments, whereas TSWLM,
> for the most part, works if you meet it on its own knowingly absurd
> terms. Of course TSWLM is over-the-top, but it doesn't seem to me to
> be as slack and lazy as a lot of YOLT. I'm probably being influenced
> by what I know about the films' history here, but YOLT, despite the
> marvellous cinematography and music, strikes me as the first utterly
> formulaic Bond film, whereas TSWLM, for all its faults, has an energy
> which comes from the fact that EON were trying to reinvigorate the
> series.
>
> Best
>
> Phil

If you want to go through every Bond film with a fine tooth comb it's easy
to find faults and nit-pick. We could devote entire threads to each film.
After all, they are fantasy films, whether we like it or not. TSWLM is a
better film, overall, for many of the reasons Phil hit upon. However, the
first half of YOLT is pretty good, the film boasts some stunning
cinemamatography and it contains one of the series' best scores. Personally,
I'll still take a slacker Sean Connery over some of Roger Moore's
performances.
Re: stupid stuff in YOLT [message #233087 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 05:03
Mike Feeney  
I disagree with your sentiments regarding YOLT, Eric, and I
consider it to be a highlight of the series. One of my top
5 favorties -- always has been. And I can address each one
of your individual observations, too -- but I don't have
time at the moment to do so. Hopefully this weekend. Most
of these criticisms have been raised before.

Just off the top of my head, however, here's a few responses
to get things started:

.... The volcano is dead. Inactive. Dormant. In fact,
relatively few volcanos around the world are considered to
be "active". Therefore, the threat of an unexpected
eruption in an inactive volcano is extremely low. And since
no one would think to look in a volcano for a secret base,
it really is a brilliant location for Blofeld to pick. So,
no... SPECTRE did not have to invent a mechanism for
"controlling a volcano".

.... The SPECTRE rocket shop has a video camera attached to
it via a tethered line. When the tethered line is extended,
the camera is in a position to "look back" at the SPECTRE
rocket and capture the images seen on earth. Blofeld is a
bit of a perfectionist, and it makes sense that he would
want to be able to personally see the events of his boldest
scheme to date take place.

.... the people in the fishing village probably *did* see
the rocket being launched and then returning to the volcano.
But these are poor Japanese fishing people, who spend
every waking minute of their lives just trying to catch
enough fish to survive. They also live a very primitive
lifestyle in relative isolation. I didn't notice any
telephones in their village. So... for all practical
purposes: how are they gonna tell anybody what they saw?
And when would they have time? And who would believe them?
Any such report would likely be dismissed as nonsense --
just like UFO reports and sightings of Bigfoot are today.
And also, why would the fishermen even care? Maybe the
Japanese government is conducting rocket tests in the area
-- its not like they would naturally come to the conclusion
that a criminal organization named SPECTRE is using this
area for its base of operations. So... the bottom line is
that SPECTRE doesn't really have to worry about the people
in the fishing village. Let them witness the rocket -- it
doesn't really matter.

--Mike
PS: As for GOLDFINGER, the single biggest flaw is the
following: the only reason -- I repeat, the only reason --
that the good guys win is because James Bond seduces a
lesbian by rolling in the hay (literally!) just once with
her. Hey, I love the fillm as much as anybody here -- but
sorry, that is simply the weakest *plot resolution* in the
history of the series. Even weaker than obtaining vital
information from a parrot.


> This topic has come up lately, and you guys didn't get all
> of them. Some of these are repeated from other
> observations.
> 1) SPECTRE has figured out how to control a volcano,
> something that none of us has even gotten a clue about how
> to do. 2) They hollowed it out and built a huge base in it
> , within close proximity of a sleepy Japanese fishing
> village, and no one noticed. 3) The Ning-Po delivered
> supplies there repeatedly and no one noticed. 4) They
> launched rockets from there repeatedly and no one noticed.
> 5) American and Russian astronauts, when put in captivity,
> will gleefully work together to subvert their own
> countries' interests. 6) American and Russian astronauts
> are so smart they just magically know how to operate
> SPECTRE's rockets, even though they've not trained on them
> for years like they did on their own. 7) SPECTRE can do
> all the things above but for some reason they are unable
> to train their own astronauts to do their bidding. 8) MI-6
> is so stupid that they fake killing off their best agent
> in Hong Kong, plaster his picture all over the papers, and
> then let him go out on the streets without a disguise.
> 9) This works anyway because no one recognizes him until
> we see a bad x-ray of his gun.
> 10) It has to be Bond because no other agent uses a
> Walther PPK. How do they know this?
> 11) They shave Bond's chest to disguise him as a Japanese
> man (which may be the most unconvincing disguise ever),
> yet he has so much testosterone that he's grown a new crop
> of it by the last scene a couple of days later.
> 12) Tanaka is hugely concerned about security, won't show
> his face above ground, and yet they casually dismiss the
> invader from outside and the guy who kills Aki, both major
> security breaches. 13) Helga Brandt is a raving genius who
> gets the information she needs from Bond, does not kill
> him when she has him tied up, and then comes up with some
> elaborate plan to kill him in a plane, which at its best,
> would have aroused much more suspicion than if they'd just
> dumped his dead body over the side of the Ning Po.
> 14) The gas that kills the fisherwoman in the underground
> fumarole is gone when all the technicians use it to
> escape. 15) Fumaroles of this type vent high-temperature
> gases and lava, but this one doesn't even hurt anyone.
> 16) NASA and the Russians have got many external cameras
> in orbit around the planet to helpfully get external shots
> of the marauding spaceships (which is dumb in itself), but
> they are unable to photograph the descent of the rogue
> craft.
> I've heard similar things leveled at Goldfinger, but, for
> example, Goldfinger kills all those industrial guys in his
> lair just because he's a sick bastard and wanted to show
> off his plans. He clearly got off on it. The little
> throwaway lines, "Operation Grand Slam... I did enjoy your
> report." "So did I, Mr. Bond, so did I." explains that
> admirably enough.
> Goldfinger also clearly got some joy in killing off Mr.
> Solo and Jill Masterson, and was hoping to get some
> pleasure out of killing Bond as well.
>
> The similar conceits in YOLT are not as easily defensible
> or logical.
> This all being said, YOLT hides the absolute stupidity of
> its script by using great performances, exemplary music,
> fast editing, and probably the best cinematography in the
> series. I'm not as prepared to dismiss Connery's
> performance as sleepwalking since he has essentially
> nothing to do in this film. He's never really in any
> danger, and there's nothing to test his character at any
> point.
> YOLT is a cleverly disguised Roger Moore film with all the
> trappings that made the Connery pictures special. When
> they remade it in 1977 as TSWLM (OK, a semi-remake), it
> wasn't nearly as good, except for the PCS.
>
> Eric
>
> --
Re: stupid stuff in YOLT [message #233102 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 18:37
Min L Shaw  
Eric, nice post. You missed a point that has always bugged me, though.
How come the Japanese Secret Service even *has* a helicopter with a
car-sized magnet, and how was it able to be put in the air and arrive
just where Bond & Aki needed it so quickly? I mean, really! How does
the magnet not make flying the helicopter impossible? They won't even
let me play my discman during takeoffs and landings, and this thing is
flying with a thirty-foot magnet?!
Re: stupid stuff in YOLT [message #233109 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 21:18
phil.gerrard1  
Min wrote:

> Eric, nice post. You missed a point that has always bugged me, though.
> How come the Japanese Secret Service even *has* a helicopter with a
> car-sized magnet, and how was it able to be put in the air and arrive
> just where Bond & Aki needed it so quickly?

Not to mention that the Japanese Secret Service also sent a camera crew
to film the whole event...

Best

Phil
Re: stupid stuff in YOLT [message #233110 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 21:31
Paul Clarke  
phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com wrote:
> Min wrote:
>
>
>>Eric, nice post. You missed a point that has always bugged me, though.
>> How come the Japanese Secret Service even *has* a helicopter with a
>>car-sized magnet, and how was it able to be put in the air and arrive
>>just where Bond & Aki needed it so quickly?
>
>
> Not to mention that the Japanese Secret Service also sent a camera crew
> to film the whole event...

LOL! I've always wondered about that too. Amazingly how well-prepared
the Japanese Secret Service is...secret camera helicopters shadowing
helicopters with car-sized magnets that can instantaneously send footage
of the whole event real-time to a video screen in a car. They must have
subcontracted the JSS equivalent of Q Branch ('R Branch'...as in 'Ah,
so'?) to Sony.
Re: stupid stuff in YOLT [message #233111 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 21:39
WQ  
phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com wrote:
> Min wrote:
>
> > Eric, nice post. You missed a point that has always bugged me, though.
> > How come the Japanese Secret Service even *has* a helicopter with a
> > car-sized magnet, and how was it able to be put in the air and arrive
> > just where Bond & Aki needed it so quickly?
>
> Not to mention that the Japanese Secret Service also sent a camera crew
> to film the whole event...


--- That was what bugged me the most more than anything else in my
first viewing of that movie, and it still does - how it was possible,
without any explanantion for it, for Bond to be able to view everything
happening on a TV screen in the car he was in as the helicopter moved
over the water to dump the car.


>
> Best
>
> Phil
Re: stupid stuff in YOLT [message #233113 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 22:29
James Hunter  
"phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com" <phil.gerrard1 [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1141849122.381297.6030 [at] i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Min wrote:
>
> > Eric, nice post. You missed a point that has always bugged me, though.
> > How come the Japanese Secret Service even *has* a helicopter with a
> > car-sized magnet, and how was it able to be put in the air and arrive
> > just where Bond & Aki needed it so quickly?
>
> Not to mention that the Japanese Secret Service also sent a camera crew
> to film the whole event...
>
> Best
>
> Phil
>

Ah, but it was a test of new technology co-funded by the Japanese government
and the Toyota Corporation, so naturally all activities with the amazing
Helo-Mag (c) would be filmed. And as for the magnet itself...(casts a quick
and careful glance around to make sure no one is listening)...it was
attracted only to "evil metal," thus the perfect safety with which the
Japanese Secret Service could use the device. But pity the poor employees
of the Osato Corporation! Ha ha ha ha ha! Etcetera....
Re: stupid stuff in YOLT [message #233123 ] Do, 09 März 2006 01:40
phil.gerrard1  
James wrote:

> Ah, but it was a test of new technology co-funded by the Japanese government
> and the Toyota Corporation, so naturally all activities with the amazing
> Helo-Mag (c) would be filmed. And as for the magnet itself...(casts a quick
> and careful glance around to make sure no one is listening)...it was
> attracted only to "evil metal," thus the perfect safety with which the
> Japanese Secret Service could use the device. But pity the poor employees
> of the Osato Corporation! Ha ha ha ha ha! Etcetera....

LOL! A promotional video I would love to see.

Best

Phil
Re: stupid stuff in YOLT [message #233137 ] Do, 09 März 2006 08:57
JHause  
LOL

Great post, Eric.
Re: stupid stuff in YOLT [message #233175 ] Do, 09 März 2006 19:25
Will Traynor  
"James Hunter" <jameshunter [at] videotron.ca> wrote in message
news:X0IPf.88331$Nb5.1034706 [at] weber.videotron.net...
> "phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com" <phil.gerrard1 [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:1141849122.381297.6030 [at] i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> Min wrote:
>>
>> > Eric, nice post. You missed a point that has always bugged me, though.
>> > How come the Japanese Secret Service even *has* a helicopter with a
>> > car-sized magnet, and how was it able to be put in the air and arrive
>> > just where Bond & Aki needed it so quickly?
>>
>> Not to mention that the Japanese Secret Service also sent a camera crew
>> to film the whole event...
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Phil
>>
>
> Ah, but it was a test of new technology co-funded by the Japanese
> government
> and the Toyota Corporation, so naturally all activities with the amazing
> Helo-Mag (c) would be filmed. And as for the magnet itself...(casts a
> quick
> and careful glance around to make sure no one is listening)...it was
> attracted only to "evil metal," thus the perfect safety with which the
> Japanese Secret Service could use the device. But pity the poor employees
> of the Osato Corporation! Ha ha ha ha ha! Etcetera....
>
>

Believable or not, it's one of the more famous stunts or sequences from the
60s Bond films.
Re: stupid stuff in YOLT [message #233363 ] Sa, 11 März 2006 18:45
Mike Feeney  
As promised earlier, here are my responses to your
criticisms of YOLT, Eric:

> This topic has come up lately, and you guys didn't get all
> of them. Some of these are repeated from other
> observations.
> 1) SPECTRE has figured out how to control a volcano,
> something that none of us has even gotten a clue about how
> to do.

SPECTRE had the common sense to select a
dormant/dead/inactive volcano for their base of operations.
No need to control anything related to volcanic activity.

2) They hollowed it out and built a huge base in it
> , within close proximity of a sleepy Japanese fishing
> village, and no one noticed.

That's the beauty of volcanos -- the lava/magma "hollows
out" the volcano naturally while it is active. No need to
artificially hollow one out.

As to building a base inside of it -- yes, the sleepy
Japanese fishing village probably was aware. But why would
they care? They would most likely assume it was their own
Japanese government doing work there, not a criminal
organization named SPECTRE.

3) The Ning-Po delivered
> supplies there repeatedly and no one noticed.

Why would anyone care?


4) They
> launched rockets from there repeatedly and no one noticed.

See number 2 and 3 above. It is reasonable to assume the
villagers noticed, but why would they care? They are too
busy spending all their time trying to catch enough fish to
feed their families. They live in a very primitive and
isolated community. SPECTRE picked the perfect witnesses
to their activity -- witnesses who would either not
understand, not care, or not be able to tell anyone what
they saw.


> 5) American and Russian astronauts, when put in captivity,
> will gleefully work together to subvert their own
> countries' interests.


No, more like "American and Russian astronauts, when put in
captivity, will gleefully work together to acheive their own
freedom and save their own lives."

6) American and Russian astronauts
> are so smart they just magically know how to operate
> SPECTRE's rockets, even though they've not trained on them
> for years like they did on their own.

How different could it be? Surely they could figure it
out.

7) SPECTRE can do
> all the things above but for some reason they are unable
> to train their own astronauts to do their bidding.

Not sure what you mean. SPECTRE employees are piloting
the SPECTRE space vehicle. It is only when Bond and the
captured astronauts attempt to impersonate them that someone
else would have been at the controls.


8) MI-6
> is so stupid that they fake killing off their best agent
> in Hong Kong, plaster his picture all over the papers, and
> then let him go out on the streets without a disguise.


Well, how many people know who 007 is and what he looks
like? Especially in Japan?


> 9) This works anyway because no one recognizes him until
> we see a bad x-ray of his gun.
> 10) It has to be Bond because no other agent uses a
> Walther PPK. How do they know this?

They do not know it is James Bond at this point. They just
know that this guy is not who he claims to be. In fact,
Bond convinces them that he's a corporate spy -- remember?
It is only Blofeld, much later in his secret base, who
informs them that it can only be one person: James Bond.


> 11) They shave Bond's chest to disguise him as a Japanese
> man (which may be the most unconvincing disguise ever),
> yet he has so much testosterone that he's grown a new crop
> of it by the last scene a couple of days later.

That's a nit-pick, don't you think? I've never noticed it
-- meaning that I'm sure its there as you say, but its not
important enough to have caught my attention or ruin the
film in any way.


> 12) Tanaka is hugely concerned about security, won't show
> his face above ground, and yet they casually dismiss the
> invader from outside and the guy who kills Aki, both major
> security breaches.


Okay, now on this one you have a very valid point! This has
always bothered me, too. A flaw in the screenplay for
sure.


13) Helga Brandt is a raving genius who
> gets the information she needs from Bond, does not kill
> him when she has him tied up, and then comes up with some
> elaborate plan to kill him in a plane, which at its best,
> would have aroused much more suspicion than if they'd just
> dumped his dead body over the side of the Ning Po.

Having him die in a plane crash would be deemed an accident
by authorities. On the other hand, having a dead body wash
up next to the Ning Po would surely launch an investigation.


> 14) The gas that kills the fisherwoman in the underground
> fumarole is gone when all the technicians use it to
> escape.

Perhaps there is a control valve which the technicians
turned to the "off" position before fleeing? Not so hard
to imagine.


15) Fumaroles of this type vent high-temperature
> gases and lava, but this one doesn't even hurt anyone.

I'm not familiar with fumaroles, so I can't comment on this
one.


> 16) NASA and the Russians have got many external cameras
> in orbit around the planet to helpfully get external shots
> of the marauding spaceships (which is dumb in itself), but
> they are unable to photograph the descent of the rogue
> craft.


The SPECTRE rocket has a camera attached to it via an
extendable tethered line. The line is extended once the
rocket has achieved orbit and the camera then begins
transmitting its images back to the receiver in Blofeld's
base. Relatively simple technology -- which existed back
in 1967 -- could achieve this. Recall that merely two
years later, live images from the moon landing were being
watched by millions of people on earth. So its not so hard
to imagine.


> I've heard similar things leveled at Goldfinger, but, for
> example, Goldfinger kills all those industrial guys in his
> lair just because he's a sick bastard and wanted to show
> off his plans. He clearly got off on it. The little
> throwaway lines, "Operation Grand Slam... I did enjoy your
> report." "So did I, Mr. Bond, so did I." explains that
> admirably enough.
> Goldfinger also clearly got some joy in killing off Mr.
> Solo and Jill Masterson, and was hoping to get some
> pleasure out of killing Bond as well.
>

As I've mentioned before, the real flaw in GOLDFINGER is
that the only reason the good guys win is because James Bond
successfully seduces a lesbian by -- in effect -- raping her
once. Geez -- that's all it takes? I should go out and
find the hottest lesbian around and try that....
seriously, that's an incredibly weak plot resolution don't
you think?


> The similar conceits in YOLT are not as easily defensible
> or logical.
> This all being said, YOLT hides the absolute stupidity of
> its script by using great performances, exemplary music,
> fast editing, and probably the best cinematography in the
> series. I'm not as prepared to dismiss Connery's
> performance as sleepwalking since he has essentially
> nothing to do in this film. He's never really in any
> danger, and there's nothing to test his character at any
> point.
> YOLT is a cleverly disguised Roger Moore film with all the
> trappings that made the Connery pictures special.

I disagree with your last sentence above. The tone of YOLT
is quite serious -- much more so than the generally more
relaxed tone of the Moore era. YOLT does not feel like a
Roger Moore Bond film at all to me.


When
> they remade it in 1977 as TSWLM (OK, a semi-remake), it
> wasn't nearly as good, except for the PCS.
>


When they remade it in 1977, the tone had changed
drastically. TSWLM is much more light-hearted and doesn't
take itself nearly as seriously. Yes, the two fillms share
the same plot for all intents and purposes, but they differ
dramatically enough in tone that they have two distinctly
individual indentities.


> Eric
>
> --


Mike
"Mr. Osato believes in a healthy chest."
Re: stupid stuff in YOLT [message #233372 ] Sa, 11 März 2006 21:54
JHause  
Agreed for the most part, but it's hard to take ninjas firing "rocket
guns" with jet-propelled bullets that explode on impact seriously --
especially when Connery's toupee is combed over his forehead like Moe
from the Three Stooges.

This movie starts off GREAT -- but then two hours later I'm just
shaking my head thinking, "What the hell happened???"
Re: stupid stuff in YOLT [message #233374 ] Sa, 11 März 2006 21:29
James Hunter  
Hi,

You know, I don't mean any disrespect by this question, but it does reflect
an honest confusion on my part: if an appreciation of fantastic movies such
as YOLT, TSWLM or MR depends on the simple pleasure of escapism, then how
and why go to all the trouble of justifying unnecessarily justifiable
elements?

Lord knows I think that anyone who can enjoy those pictures has a wonderful
grasp of simple pleasures (and wild rides) - but I always thought, though,
that there was no serious consideration of the stories' dramatic elements.
Indeed, I find that enjoyment of escapism and enjoyment of the dramatic are
mutually exclusive when it comes to some of the Bond films. How do others
think?

Thanks!
James

"Mike Feeney" <moonraker79 [at] excite.comPLICATE> wrote in message
news:4413c2ed.784.41 [at] news2...
> As promised earlier, here are my responses to your
> criticisms of YOLT, Eric:
>
> > This topic has come up lately, and you guys didn't get all
> > of them. Some of these are repeated from other
> > observations.
> > 1) SPECTRE has figured out how to control a volcano,
> > something that none of us has even gotten a clue about how
> > to do.
>
> SPECTRE had the common sense to select a
> dormant/dead/inactive volcano for their base of operations.
> No need to control anything related to volcanic activity.
>
> 2) They hollowed it out and built a huge base in it
> > , within close proximity of a sleepy Japanese fishing
> > village, and no one noticed.
>
> That's the beauty of volcanos -- the lava/magma "hollows
> out" the volcano naturally while it is active. No need to
> artificially hollow one out.
>
> As to building a base inside of it -- yes, the sleepy
> Japanese fishing village probably was aware. But why would
> they care? They would most likely assume it was their own
> Japanese government doing work there, not a criminal
> organization named SPECTRE.
>
> 3) The Ning-Po delivered
> > supplies there repeatedly and no one noticed.
>
> Why would anyone care?
>
>
> 4) They
> > launched rockets from there repeatedly and no one noticed.
>
> See number 2 and 3 above. It is reasonable to assume the
> villagers noticed, but why would they care? They are too
> busy spending all their time trying to catch enough fish to
> feed their families. They live in a very primitive and
> isolated community. SPECTRE picked the perfect witnesses
> to their activity -- witnesses who would either not
> understand, not care, or not be able to tell anyone what
> they saw.
>
>
> > 5) American and Russian astronauts, when put in captivity,
> > will gleefully work together to subvert their own
> > countries' interests.
>
>
> No, more like "American and Russian astronauts, when put in
> captivity, will gleefully work together to acheive their own
> freedom and save their own lives."
>
> 6) American and Russian astronauts
> > are so smart they just magically know how to operate
> > SPECTRE's rockets, even though they've not trained on them
> > for years like they did on their own.
>
> How different could it be? Surely they could figure it
> out.
>
> 7) SPECTRE can do
> > all the things above but for some reason they are unable
> > to train their own astronauts to do their bidding.
>
> Not sure what you mean. SPECTRE employees are piloting
> the SPECTRE space vehicle. It is only when Bond and the
> captured astronauts attempt to impersonate them that someone
> else would have been at the controls.
>
>
> 8) MI-6
> > is so stupid that they fake killing off their best agent
> > in Hong Kong, plaster his picture all over the papers, and
> > then let him go out on the streets without a disguise.
>
>
> Well, how many people know who 007 is and what he looks
> like? Especially in Japan?
>
>
> > 9) This works anyway because no one recognizes him until
> > we see a bad x-ray of his gun.
> > 10) It has to be Bond because no other agent uses a
> > Walther PPK. How do they know this?
>
> They do not know it is James Bond at this point. They just
> know that this guy is not who he claims to be. In fact,
> Bond convinces them that he's a corporate spy -- remember?
> It is only Blofeld, much later in his secret base, who
> informs them that it can only be one person: James Bond.
>
>
> > 11) They shave Bond's chest to disguise him as a Japanese
> > man (which may be the most unconvincing disguise ever),
> > yet he has so much testosterone that he's grown a new crop
> > of it by the last scene a couple of days later.
>
> That's a nit-pick, don't you think? I've never noticed it
> -- meaning that I'm sure its there as you say, but its not
> important enough to have caught my attention or ruin the
> film in any way.
>
>
> > 12) Tanaka is hugely concerned about security, won't show
> > his face above ground, and yet they casually dismiss the
> > invader from outside and the guy who kills Aki, both major
> > security breaches.
>
>
> Okay, now on this one you have a very valid point! This has
> always bothered me, too. A flaw in the screenplay for
> sure.
>
>
> 13) Helga Brandt is a raving genius who
> > gets the information she needs from Bond, does not kill
> > him when she has him tied up, and then comes up with some
> > elaborate plan to kill him in a plane, which at its best,
> > would have aroused much more suspicion than if they'd just
> > dumped his dead body over the side of the Ning Po.
>
> Having him die in a plane crash would be deemed an accident
> by authorities. On the other hand, having a dead body wash
> up next to the Ning Po would surely launch an investigation.
>
>
> > 14) The gas that kills the fisherwoman in the underground
> > fumarole is gone when all the technicians use it to
> > escape.
>
> Perhaps there is a control valve which the technicians
> turned to the "off" position before fleeing? Not so hard
> to imagine.
>
>
> 15) Fumaroles of this type vent high-temperature
> > gases and lava, but this one doesn't even hurt anyone.
>
> I'm not familiar with fumaroles, so I can't comment on this
> one.
>
>
> > 16) NASA and the Russians have got many external cameras
> > in orbit around the planet to helpfully get external shots
> > of the marauding spaceships (which is dumb in itself), but
> > they are unable to photograph the descent of the rogue
> > craft.
>
>
> The SPECTRE rocket has a camera attached to it via an
> extendable tethered line. The line is extended once the
> rocket has achieved orbit and the camera then begins
> transmitting its images back to the receiver in Blofeld's
> base. Relatively simple technology -- which existed back
> in 1967 -- could achieve this. Recall that merely two
> years later, live images from the moon landing were being
> watched by millions of people on earth. So its not so hard
> to imagine.
>
>
> > I've heard similar things leveled at Goldfinger, but, for
> > example, Goldfinger kills all those industrial guys in his
> > lair just because he's a sick bastard and wanted to show
> > off his plans. He clearly got off on it. The little
> > throwaway lines, "Operation Grand Slam... I did enjoy your
> > report." "So did I, Mr. Bond, so did I." explains that
> > admirably enough.
> > Goldfinger also clearly got some joy in killing off Mr.
> > Solo and Jill Masterson, and was hoping to get some
> > pleasure out of killing Bond as well.
> >
>
> As I've mentioned before, the real flaw in GOLDFINGER is
> that the only reason the good guys win is because James Bond
> successfully seduces a lesbian by -- in effect -- raping her
> once. Geez -- that's all it takes? I should go out and
> find the hottest lesbian around and try that....
> seriously, that's an incredibly weak plot resolution don't
> you think?
>
>
> > The similar conceits in YOLT are not as easily defensible
> > or logical.
> > This all being said, YOLT hides the absolute stupidity of
> > its script by using great performances, exemplary music,
> > fast editing, and probably the best cinematography in the
> > series. I'm not as prepared to dismiss Connery's
> > performance as sleepwalking since he has essentially
> > nothing to do in this film. He's never really in any
> > danger, and there's nothing to test his character at any
> > point.
> > YOLT is a cleverly disguised Roger Moore film with all the
> > trappings that made the Connery pictures special.
>
> I disagree with your last sentence above. The tone of YOLT
> is quite serious -- much more so than the generally more
> relaxed tone of the Moore era. YOLT does not feel like a
> Roger Moore Bond film at all to me.
>
>
> When
> > they remade it in 1977 as TSWLM (OK, a semi-remake), it
> > wasn't nearly as good, except for the PCS.
> >
>
>
> When they remade it in 1977, the tone had changed
> drastically. TSWLM is much more light-hearted and doesn't
> take itself nearly as seriously. Yes, the two fillms share
> the same plot for all intents and purposes, but they differ
> dramatically enough in tone that they have two distinctly
> individual indentities.
>
>
> > Eric
> >
> > --
>
>
> Mike
> "Mr. Osato believes in a healthy chest."
Re: stupid stuff in YOLT [message #233389 ] So, 12 März 2006 04:35
Absorb  
James Hunter wrote:

> Indeed, I find that enjoyment of escapism and enjoyment of the dramatic are
> mutually exclusive when it comes to some of the Bond films. How do others
> think?

Well, I'd say that the juxtaposition between the escapism and the
dramatic moments is what makes Bond *Bond* and not just some action or
spy series. His world is not our world, but it is an extension of it.
Bond's heightened reality works because by grounding the foundation,
the truly fantastic moments soar. The best Bond films explore the space
between what is real and what is interesting.

Absorb
Re: stupid stuff in YOLT [message #233402 ] So, 12 März 2006 17:11
Will Traynor  
"James Hunter" <jameshunter [at] videotron.ca> wrote in message
news:hrGQf.20074$oK.570984 [at] wagner.videotron.net...
> Hi,
>
> You know, I don't mean any disrespect by this question, but it does
> reflect
> an honest confusion on my part: if an appreciation of fantastic movies
> such
> as YOLT, TSWLM or MR depends on the simple pleasure of escapism, then how
> and why go to all the trouble of justifying unnecessarily justifiable
> elements?
>
> Lord knows I think that anyone who can enjoy those pictures has a
> wonderful
> grasp of simple pleasures (and wild rides) - but I always thought, though,
> that there was no serious consideration of the stories' dramatic elements.
> Indeed, I find that enjoyment of escapism and enjoyment of the dramatic
> are
> mutually exclusive when it comes to some of the Bond films. How do others
> think?
>
> Thanks!
> James
>
> "Mike Feeney" <moonraker79 [at] excite.comPLICATE> wrote in message
> news:4413c2ed.784.41 [at] news2...
>> As promised earlier, here are my responses to your
>> criticisms of YOLT, Eric:
>>
>> > This topic has come up lately, and you guys didn't get all
>> > of them. Some of these are repeated from other
>> > observations.
>> > 1) SPECTRE has figured out how to control a volcano,
>> > something that none of us has even gotten a clue about how
>> > to do.
>>
>> SPECTRE had the common sense to select a
>> dormant/dead/inactive volcano for their base of operations.
>> No need to control anything related to volcanic activity.
>>
>> 2) They hollowed it out and built a huge base in it
>> > , within close proximity of a sleepy Japanese fishing
>> > village, and no one noticed.
>>
>> That's the beauty of volcanos -- the lava/magma "hollows
>> out" the volcano naturally while it is active. No need to
>> artificially hollow one out.
>>
>> As to building a base inside of it -- yes, the sleepy
>> Japanese fishing village probably was aware. But why would
>> they care? They would most likely assume it was their own
>> Japanese government doing work there, not a criminal
>> organization named SPECTRE.
>>
>> 3) The Ning-Po delivered
>> > supplies there repeatedly and no one noticed.
>>
>> Why would anyone care?
>>
>>
>> 4) They
>> > launched rockets from there repeatedly and no one noticed.
>>
>> See number 2 and 3 above. It is reasonable to assume the
>> villagers noticed, but why would they care? They are too
>> busy spending all their time trying to catch enough fish to
>> feed their families. They live in a very primitive and
>> isolated community. SPECTRE picked the perfect witnesses
>> to their activity -- witnesses who would either not
>> understand, not care, or not be able to tell anyone what
>> they saw.
>>
>>
>> > 5) American and Russian astronauts, when put in captivity,
>> > will gleefully work together to subvert their own
>> > countries' interests.
>>
>>
>> No, more like "American and Russian astronauts, when put in
>> captivity, will gleefully work together to acheive their own
>> freedom and save their own lives."
>>
>> 6) American and Russian astronauts
>> > are so smart they just magically know how to operate
>> > SPECTRE's rockets, even though they've not trained on them
>> > for years like they did on their own.
>>
>> How different could it be? Surely they could figure it
>> out.
>>
>> 7) SPECTRE can do
>> > all the things above but for some reason they are unable
>> > to train their own astronauts to do their bidding.
>>
>> Not sure what you mean. SPECTRE employees are piloting
>> the SPECTRE space vehicle. It is only when Bond and the
>> captured astronauts attempt to impersonate them that someone
>> else would have been at the controls.
>>
>>
>> 8) MI-6
>> > is so stupid that they fake killing off their best agent
>> > in Hong Kong, plaster his picture all over the papers, and
>> > then let him go out on the streets without a disguise.
>>
>>
>> Well, how many people know who 007 is and what he looks
>> like? Especially in Japan?
>>
>>
>> > 9) This works anyway because no one recognizes him until
>> > we see a bad x-ray of his gun.
>> > 10) It has to be Bond because no other agent uses a
>> > Walther PPK. How do they know this?
>>
>> They do not know it is James Bond at this point. They just
>> know that this guy is not who he claims to be. In fact,
>> Bond convinces them that he's a corporate spy -- remember?
>> It is only Blofeld, much later in his secret base, who
>> informs them that it can only be one person: James Bond.
>>
>>
>> > 11) They shave Bond's chest to disguise him as a Japanese
>> > man (which may be the most unconvincing disguise ever),
>> > yet he has so much testosterone that he's grown a new crop
>> > of it by the last scene a couple of days later.
>>
>> That's a nit-pick, don't you think? I've never noticed it
>> -- meaning that I'm sure its there as you say, but its not
>> important enough to have caught my attention or ruin the
>> film in any way.
>>
>>
>> > 12) Tanaka is hugely concerned about security, won't show
>> > his face above ground, and yet they casually dismiss the
>> > invader from outside and the guy who kills Aki, both major
>> > security breaches.
>>
>>
>> Okay, now on this one you have a very valid point! This has
>> always bothered me, too. A flaw in the screenplay for
>> sure.
>>
>>
>> 13) Helga Brandt is a raving genius who
>> > gets the information she needs from Bond, does not kill
>> > him when she has him tied up, and then comes up with some
>> > elaborate plan to kill him in a plane, which at its best,
>> > would have aroused much more suspicion than if they'd just
>> > dumped his dead body over the side of the Ning Po.
>>
>> Having him die in a plane crash would be deemed an accident
>> by authorities. On the other hand, having a dead body wash
>> up next to the Ning Po would surely launch an investigation.
>>
>>
>> > 14) The gas that kills the fisherwoman in the underground
>> > fumarole is gone when all the technicians use it to
>> > escape.
>>
>> Perhaps there is a control valve which the technicians
>> turned to the "off" position before fleeing? Not so hard
>> to imagine.
>>
>>
>> 15) Fumaroles of this type vent high-temperature
>> > gases and lava, but this one doesn't even hurt anyone.
>>
>> I'm not familiar with fumaroles, so I can't comment on this
>> one.
>>
>>
>> > 16) NASA and the Russians have got many external cameras
>> > in orbit around the planet to helpfully get external shots
>> > of the marauding spaceships (which is dumb in itself), but
>> > they are unable to photograph the descent of the rogue
>> > craft.
>>
>>
>> The SPECTRE rocket has a camera attached to it via an
>> extendable tethered line. The line is extended once the
>> rocket has achieved orbit and the camera then begins
>> transmitting its images back to the receiver in Blofeld's
>> base. Relatively simple technology -- which existed back
>> in 1967 -- could achieve this. Recall that merely two
>> years later, live images from the moon landing were being
>> watched by millions of people on earth. So its not so hard
>> to imagine.
>>
>>
>> > I've heard similar things leveled at Goldfinger, but, for
>> > example, Goldfinger kills all those industrial guys in his
>> > lair just because he's a sick bastard and wanted to show
>> > off his plans. He clearly got off on it. The little
>> > throwaway lines, "Operation Grand Slam... I did enjoy your
>> > report." "So did I, Mr. Bond, so did I." explains that
>> > admirably enough.
>> > Goldfinger also clearly got some joy in killing off Mr.
>> > Solo and Jill Masterson, and was hoping to get some
>> > pleasure out of killing Bond as well.
>> >
>>
>> As I've mentioned before, the real flaw in GOLDFINGER is
>> that the only reason the good guys win is because James Bond
>> successfully seduces a lesbian by -- in effect -- raping her
>> once. Geez -- that's all it takes? I should go out and
>> find the hottest lesbian around and try that....
>> seriously, that's an incredibly weak plot resolution don't
>> you think?
>>
>>
>> > The similar conceits in YOLT are not as easily defensible
>> > or logical.
>> > This all being said, YOLT hides the absolute stupidity of
>> > its script by using great performances, exemplary music,
>> > fast editing, and probably the best cinematography in the
>> > series. I'm not as prepared to dismiss Connery's
>> > performance as sleepwalking since he has essentially
>> > nothing to do in this film. He's never really in any
>> > danger, and there's nothing to test his character at any
>> > point.
>> > YOLT is a cleverly disguised Roger Moore film with all the
>> > trappings that made the Connery pictures special.
>>
>> I disagree with your last sentence above. The tone of YOLT
>> is quite serious -- much more so than the generally more
>> relaxed tone of the Moore era. YOLT does not feel like a
>> Roger Moore Bond film at all to me.
>>
>>
>> When
>> > they remade it in 1977 as TSWLM (OK, a semi-remake), it
>> > wasn't nearly as good, except for the PCS.
>> >
>>
>>
>> When they remade it in 1977, the tone had changed
>> drastically. TSWLM is much more light-hearted and doesn't
>> take itself nearly as seriously. Yes, the two fillms share
>> the same plot for all intents and purposes, but they differ
>> dramatically enough in tone that they have two distinctly
>> individual indentities.
>>
>>
>> > Eric
>> >
>> > --
>>
>>
>> Mike
>> "Mr. Osato believes in a healthy chest."
>
>

Personally, I think the ultimate success or failure of a Bond film lies with
producers' attempts to combine some fantastic elements with an aura of
believability. The best films, GF, FRWL, OHMSS and a few others, managed to
walk that tightrope quite well. Others, like MR, DAD, TMWTGG, were too
outlandish and sacrificed believability for over-the-top humor and
stunts/gadgets.
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