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Miscellaneous / Verschiedenes » alt.fan.james-bond » Rewatched TWINE.....
Rewatched TWINE..... [message #232392] Fr, 03 März 2006 05:44
Will Traynor  
Some overall observations, if anyone cares, lol

pluses - good performances by PB and Sophie Marceau, I liked the story angle
how Bond got duped by Elektra, Robbie Coltrane was good enough to keep
around, the finale was pretty good, in retrospect

minuses - Denise Richards and her terribly written lines, Bond's on-and-off
shoulder injury, some poor action set pieces (caviar factory was not good,
as was the tired skiing sequence), M was captured much too easily

Overall, too many minuses to make it top flight Bond, but it has its
moments, especially the scenes with PB and Sophie, who is among my favorite
Bond women or villainesses, lol. Q looked pretty rough in this film. It was
sad to see him go. Renard didn't move me either way, he was much less
interesting than Sophie's character. This is a good example of PB's tenure.
I call it missed opportunities.
Re: Rewatched TWINE..... [message #232395 ] Fr, 03 März 2006 06:30
JHause  
Will wrote:
> Some overall observations, if anyone cares, lol
>
> pluses - good performances by PB and Sophie Marceau, I liked the story angle
> how Bond got duped by Elektra, Robbie Coltrane was good enough to keep
> around, the finale was pretty good, in retrospect
>
> minuses - Denise Richards and her terribly written lines, Bond's on-and-off
> shoulder injury, some poor action set pieces (caviar factory was not good,
> as was the tired skiing sequence), M was captured much too easily
>
> Overall, too many minuses to make it top flight Bond, but it has its
> moments, especially the scenes with PB and Sophie, who is among my favorite
> Bond women or villainesses, lol. Q looked pretty rough in this film. It was
> sad to see him go. Renard didn't move me either way, he was much less
> interesting than Sophie's character. This is a good example of PB's tenure.
> I call it missed opportunities.

Brosnan's going to be the only Bond not to act in a single scene from a
Fleming book. Too bad. Those scripts he was stuck with needed the
personality.
Re: Rewatched TWINE..... [message #232406 ] Fr, 03 März 2006 13:09
Carcharias  
"Will" <willt65 [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
news:0o2dnQDZ55ZXVJrZRVn-rQ [at] comcast.com...
> Some overall observations, if anyone cares, lol
>

I think another thing it has going for it is that it makes the world of the
film seem more realistic. In the 70s and 80s Bond films, I don't know, I
just feel like the locations always seemed kind of cardboard cutouts, unlike
the 60s Bond films. But in TWINE, there was that sense of exoticism and
reality to the locations that I feel contributed more to the sense of it
being a classic Bond. I think you hit on the movie's problems very well.
Re: Rewatched TWINE..... [message #232414 ] Fr, 03 März 2006 18:33
Will Traynor  
"JHause" <JHause [at] aol.com> wrote in message
news:1141363847.578546.269360 [at] t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
>
> Will wrote:
>> Some overall observations, if anyone cares, lol
>>
>> pluses - good performances by PB and Sophie Marceau, I liked the story
>> angle
>> how Bond got duped by Elektra, Robbie Coltrane was good enough to keep
>> around, the finale was pretty good, in retrospect
>>
>> minuses - Denise Richards and her terribly written lines, Bond's
>> on-and-off
>> shoulder injury, some poor action set pieces (caviar factory was not
>> good,
>> as was the tired skiing sequence), M was captured much too easily
>>
>> Overall, too many minuses to make it top flight Bond, but it has its
>> moments, especially the scenes with PB and Sophie, who is among my
>> favorite
>> Bond women or villainesses, lol. Q looked pretty rough in this film. It
>> was
>> sad to see him go. Renard didn't move me either way, he was much less
>> interesting than Sophie's character. This is a good example of PB's
>> tenure.
>> I call it missed opportunities.
>
> Brosnan's going to be the only Bond not to act in a single scene from a
> Fleming book. Too bad. Those scripts he was stuck with needed the
> personality.
>

The action sequences are looking very tired lately, too. DAD suffered from
the same problem. The Vanquish sequence on the ice was fairly routine and
amusing at best. And the hovercraft scene reminded me of a Bond video game.
They need to go back to basic action/suspense sequences rather than trying
to top everything that came before.
Re: Rewatched TWINE..... [message #232435 ] Sa, 04 März 2006 17:25
Min L Shaw  
minuses - Denise Richards and her terribly written lines, Bond's
on-and-off
shoulder injury, some poor action set pieces (caviar factory was not
good,
as was the tired skiing sequence), M was captured much too easily

I will be the last to defend Richards/Jones. And I agree, M's capture
*was* too easy. As for the shoulder injury, I think they had a great
idea of having Bond actually show physical vulnerability for a change;
very Fleming-esque. It may not have been a plot thread they kept up as
well as they should have, but still a great idea and when they *did* go
back to it, it worked great.

And, as for the action/set pieces, I wonder how much of it is that
they're tired and how much is that we've just seen it all by now. I
remember walking out of "XXX" with Vin Diesel thinking that the Bond
people could learn a few things about having more fun with their
stunts. It may not have been the greatest movie ever made, but it
*was* fun.
Re: Rewatched TWINE..... [message #232439 ] Sa, 04 März 2006 17:55
WQ  
Min L Shaw wrote:
> minuses - Denise Richards and her terribly written lines, Bond's
> on-and-off
> shoulder injury, some poor action set pieces (caviar factory was not
> good,
> as was the tired skiing sequence), M was captured much too easily
>
> I will be the last to defend Richards/Jones. And I agree, M's capture
> *was* too easy. As for the shoulder injury, I think they had a great
> idea of having Bond actually show physical vulnerability for a change;
> very Fleming-esque. It may not have been a plot thread they kept up as
> well as they should have, but still a great idea and when they *did* go
> back to it, it worked great.

--- The biggest missed opportunity of TWINE is Renard. I always
thought he would've made a terrific villain or henchman with the idea
that a bullet still lodged in his head was slowly working towards his
brain and that he would've ended up dead sooner or later from it. They
could've played that up a bit more and found a way to give him an
ironical death. Instead, they miscast the character with a little runt
of an actor and he ends up dying in yet another anti-climactic
tediously overdone, unimaginative and not very clever yawn-inducing
fight scene with Bond.

> And, as for the action/set pieces, I wonder how much of it is that
> they're tired and how much is that we've just seen it all by now. I
> remember walking out of "XXX" with Vin Diesel thinking that the Bond
> people could learn a few things about having more fun with their
> stunts. It may not have been the greatest movie ever made, but it
> *was* fun.

--- XXX would've been more fun if they had gotten just about anyone
else other than the latter-day Sylvester Stallone clone Vin Diesel.
He's what killed the movie for me. I don't like my spies acting like
dullards.
Re: Rewatched TWINE..... [message #232452 ] Sa, 04 März 2006 22:17
Will Traynor  
"Min L Shaw" <minlshaw [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1141489543.444920.8730 [at] i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> minuses - Denise Richards and her terribly written lines, Bond's
> on-and-off
> shoulder injury, some poor action set pieces (caviar factory was not
> good,
> as was the tired skiing sequence), M was captured much too easily
>
> I will be the last to defend Richards/Jones. And I agree, M's capture
> *was* too easy. As for the shoulder injury, I think they had a great
> idea of having Bond actually show physical vulnerability for a change;
> very Fleming-esque. It may not have been a plot thread they kept up as
> well as they should have, but still a great idea and when they *did* go
> back to it, it worked great.
>
> And, as for the action/set pieces, I wonder how much of it is that
> they're tired and how much is that we've just seen it all by now. I
> remember walking out of "XXX" with Vin Diesel thinking that the Bond
> people could learn a few things about having more fun with their
> stunts. It may not have been the greatest movie ever made, but it
> *was* fun.
>

As for the action sequences, as of late, I just call them unimaginative,
over the top and downright non-sensicle. Foe example, why did the have to
send tree cutters to kill Bond at the caviar factory? lol Think about it,
what is the point? In this case, it was used to show utter destruction of
the factory, and watch it crash to the ground. So non-sensical destruction
trumps believability. Whatever happened to sending an assassin to kill
someone? lol...A good hand-to-hand fight is more exciting than watching
another poorly paced skiing sequence.
Re: Rewatched TWINE..... [message #232462 ] So, 05 März 2006 01:42
Camille  
I hate the caviar factory sequence. It felt very obligatory--(as did
most of the film's action sequences), "we've got to have an action
sequence here because we haven't had one in a while."--and was wholy
unneccessary.

Redeemed only by Bond's line at the end (and Brosnan's perfect
delivery), "Now, where were we?" As if they'd only been interrupted by
a doorbell or ringing phone, rather than someone trying to kill them.
Pure Bond.

Good:
(1)Opening sequence. When I first saw this, the theater audience gasped
in awe as the credits began, realizing that the movie had only just
BEGUN.
(2)Elektra King/Sophie Marceau--terrific character, exquisite actress.
Is it me, or did she become uglier as her duplicitious, psychotic
nature was fully revealed? Her claustrophobic freakout seemed 100%
real, even if the whole attack was staged. With one or two exceptions,
I LOVED her wardrobe.
Bad:
(1) Dr. Christmas Jones/Denise Richards--pointless character and
terrible actress. Looking ten years younger than she is didn't help
either.
(2) Most of the action pieces weren't good, and as stated earlier, had
a very "thrown-in" feel to them.
Re: Rewatched TWINE..... [message #232463 ] So, 05 März 2006 02:41
Will Traynor  
"Camille" <mckenziecamille [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1141519358.897201.144960 [at] p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>I hate the caviar factory sequence. It felt very obligatory--(as did
> most of the film's action sequences), "we've got to have an action
> sequence here because we haven't had one in a while."--and was wholy
> unneccessary.
>
> Redeemed only by Bond's line at the end (and Brosnan's perfect
> delivery), "Now, where were we?" As if they'd only been interrupted by
> a doorbell or ringing phone, rather than someone trying to kill them.
> Pure Bond.
>
> Good:
> (1)Opening sequence. When I first saw this, the theater audience gasped
> in awe as the credits began, realizing that the movie had only just
> BEGUN.
> (2)Elektra King/Sophie Marceau--terrific character, exquisite actress.
> Is it me, or did she become uglier as her duplicitious, psychotic
> nature was fully revealed? Her claustrophobic freakout seemed 100%
> real, even if the whole attack was staged. With one or two exceptions,
> I LOVED her wardrobe.
> Bad:
> (1) Dr. Christmas Jones/Denise Richards--pointless character and
> terrible actress. Looking ten years younger than she is didn't help
> either.
> (2) Most of the action pieces weren't good, and as stated earlier, had
> a very "thrown-in" feel to them.
>

I found the PCS to be overlong and, once again, unbelievable. It starts out
promisingly enough, but devolves into an overly long boat chase that
bordered on Moonraker shenanigans. The boat traveling through streets and
restaurants? lol...Or how about Bond leaping out of the boat mid-air and
somehow grabbing the hot air balloon rope !!! Ludicrous? Absolutely !!!
Believable?? Not in the least !! Fun? Sure Is !!! Bond has to be more than
just fun for me. Moonraker is a fun movie.
Re: Rewatched TWINE..... [message #232489 ] Mo, 06 März 2006 01:18
phil.gerrard1  
WQ wrote:

> Instead, they miscast the character with a little runt
> of an actor

Watch the 'Cracker' episode 'To Be a Somebody', and tell me the guy was
a 'little runt of an actor' or miscast. If he didn't work for you in
TWINE, fine, and I have my doubts about the way the character worked as
well, but don't tell me Carlyle can't act or can't be scary.

Best

Phil

Having serious doubts now about the criteria you use to judge actors,
scripts, and performances...
Re: Rewatched TWINE..... [message #232493 ] Mo, 06 März 2006 01:49
WQ  
phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com wrote:
> WQ wrote:
>
> > Instead, they miscast the character with a little runt
> > of an actor
>
> Watch the 'Cracker' episode 'To Be a Somebody', and tell me the guy was
> a 'little runt of an actor' or miscast. If he didn't work for you in
> TWINE, fine, and I have my doubts about the way the character worked as
> well, but don't tell me Carlyle can't act or can't be scary.
>
> Best
>
> Phil
>
> Having serious doubts now about the criteria you use to judge actors,
> scripts, and performances...

--- He may've been perfectly cast in other roles, but for the kind of
character that Renard was, or more like had the potential to be, he was
grossly miscast in a Bond film, which is why he comes across as more of
a little runt in it than anything really malevolent. Seems to me that
in your case, the way you look at it, just about anybody who's cast in
a Bond film must be right for the part, especially if that actor has
some noteworthy credentials behind him or her. But I don't take past
credentials into account when I look at who's cast for what, whether in
a Bond film or not. If I did, I would've hated George Lazenby and
loved Pierce Brosnan. Besides, like they say in Hollywood: You're only
as good as your last movie, so the other hundred you did mean nothing.
I look at what it is that an actor can do with the part handed to him
or her and if it more or less fits them to a T within the context of
what the film is and also whatever potential, that the people behind
the film may have overlooked or dismissed, of becoming whatever it
could've been. In other words, I don't look at just what's on the
screen and judge from that because that's too one-dimensional and
literal for me. I look at what's on it, literally, and everything
behind and beyond it, figuratively, for a more three-dimensional
assessment and view of things. So this, I think, is where we
fundamentally differ in how we view casting. Even some of the best
actors in the business have been miscast in films they never should've
never done, i.e. Al Pacino in People I Know.
Re: Rewatched TWINE..... [message #232495 ] Mo, 06 März 2006 04:08
Will Traynor  
"phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com" <phil.gerrard1 [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1141604326.024973.254440 [at] z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> WQ wrote:
>
>> Instead, they miscast the character with a little runt
>> of an actor
>
> Watch the 'Cracker' episode 'To Be a Somebody', and tell me the guy was
> a 'little runt of an actor' or miscast. If he didn't work for you in
> TWINE, fine, and I have my doubts about the way the character worked as
> well, but don't tell me Carlyle can't act or can't be scary.
>
> Best
>
> Phil
>
> Having serious doubts now about the criteria you use to judge actors,
> scripts, and performances...
>

Ya think? lol
Re: Rewatched TWINE..... [message #232496 ] Mo, 06 März 2006 04:15
Will Traynor  
"phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com" <phil.gerrard1 [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1141604326.024973.254440 [at] z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> WQ wrote:
>
>> Instead, they miscast the character with a little runt
>> of an actor
>
> Watch the 'Cracker' episode 'To Be a Somebody', and tell me the guy was
> a 'little runt of an actor' or miscast. If he didn't work for you in
> TWINE, fine, and I have my doubts about the way the character worked as
> well, but don't tell me Carlyle can't act or can't be scary.
>
> Best
>
> Phil
>
> Having serious doubts now about the criteria you use to judge actors,
> scripts, and performances...
>

I think it would be fair to say that Carlyle was not physically imposing.
Joe Pesci is a "runt" but certainly a scary character. So the problem may
lie more with the writing. The character, as written, was not particularly
interesting, but I had no problems with his acting.
Re: Rewatched TWINE..... [message #232497 ] Mo, 06 März 2006 04:27
Tom Zielinski  
"phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com" <phil.gerrard1 [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1141604326.024973.254440 [at] z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> WQ wrote:
>
>> Instead, they miscast the character with a little runt
>> of an actor
>
> Watch the 'Cracker' episode 'To Be a Somebody', and tell me the guy was
> a 'little runt of an actor' or miscast. If he didn't work for you in
> TWINE, fine, and I have my doubts about the way the character worked as
> well, but don't tell me Carlyle can't act or can't be scary.


Is that the story line wherein Carlyle was a football fanatic/murderer? He
was INDEED terrific.

If anyone hasn't seen "Cracker", take a peek. Robbie Coltrane is really,
REALLY good as the "Fitz", the main character.



Tom Zielinski
"...Bond's eyes narrowed. He knew, at some point, he would have to slay this
particular dragon. He settled back in his chair, removing a Morlands' three
ring special from the gunmetal cigarette case. As he waited for the
delicious Balkan/Turkish blend to take effect on his lungs, he reflected
upon Gamblers Anonymous...created by wankers, for wankers..."
Re: Rewatched TWINE..... [message #232502 ] Mo, 06 März 2006 06:29
ahk  
phil.gerrard1 [at] ntlworld.com wrote:
>WQ wrote:

>>Instead, they miscast the character with a little runt of an actor

>Watch the 'Cracker' episode 'To Be a Somebody', and tell me the guy was
>a 'little runt of an actor' or miscast. If he didn't work for you in
>TWINE, fine, and I have my doubts about the way the character worked as
>well, but don't tell me Carlyle can't act or can't be scary.

"Cracker" was brilliant television. Even the American versions of the
original British scripts were good; the new scripts written for the
American show didn't work.

>Having serious doubts now about the criteria you use to judge actors,
>scripts, and performances...

Everyone knows an act
can't
move a rubber tree plant.

But he's got
high hopes
he's got
high hopes . . .
Re: Rewatched TWINE..... [message #232507 ] Mo, 06 März 2006 14:09
phil.gerrard1  
Tom wrote:

> Is that the story line wherein Carlyle was a football fanatic/murderer? He
> was INDEED terrific.

That's the one.

> If anyone hasn't seen "Cracker", take a peek. Robbie Coltrane is really,
> REALLY good as the "Fitz", the main character.

Apart from the excellence of the writing and direction, almost every
episiode is a Casting Director's dream. 'To Be a Somebody', which
features Carlyle and Christopher Eccleston, both of whom have gone on
to huge success since, is a case in point.

Best

Phil

(In the light of recent discussions, smiling wryly at the fact that you
referred to the sport as 'football'.)
Re: Rewatched TWINE..... [message #232508 ] Mo, 06 März 2006 14:43
Tom Zielinski  
"phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com" <phil.gerrard1 [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1141650572.374463.8970 [at] i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Tom wrote:
>
>> Is that the story line wherein Carlyle was a football fanatic/murderer?
>> He
>> was INDEED terrific.
>
> That's the one.
>
>> If anyone hasn't seen "Cracker", take a peek. Robbie Coltrane is really,
>> REALLY good as the "Fitz", the main character.
>
> Apart from the excellence of the writing and direction, almost every
> episiode is a Casting Director's dream. 'To Be a Somebody', which
> features Carlyle and Christopher Eccleston, both of whom have gone on
> to huge success since, is a case in point.
>
> Best
>
> Phil
>
> (In the light of recent discussions, smiling wryly at the fact that you
> referred to the sport as 'football'.)


Well, if you can't tackle 'em, tickle 'em...



Tom Zielinski
"...Bond's eyes narrowed. He knew, at some point, he would have to slay this
particular dragon. He settled back in his chair, removing a Morlands' three
ring special from the gunmetal cigarette case. As he waited for the
delicious Balkan/Turkish blend to take effect on his lungs, he reflected
that both are easily better than NASCAR..."
Re: Rewatched TWINE..... [message #232511 ] Mo, 06 März 2006 16:01
phil.gerrard1  
Tom wrote:

> Well, if you can't tackle 'em, tickle 'em...

LOL! It's a shame that I'll probably have to wait ages before I find a
conversational context in which I can use that phrase myself...

Best

Phil
Re: Rewatched TWINE..... [message #232513 ] Mo, 06 März 2006 18:02
Min L Shaw  
Will, in response to TWINE, wrote:

>So non-sensical destruction trumps believability. Whatever happened to sending an assassin to kill someone?

Like in, say TB, where the assassin's car is destroyed by yet a second
assassin, using a sidecar rocket, who then ditches the entire
motorcycle with no visible second means of transportation? Personally,
I thought the parahawks were an inspired choice for the villains. I
thought Bond disposed of them too easily, of course, but I thought the
idea was pretty solid.
Re: Rewatched TWINE..... [message #232514 ] Mo, 06 März 2006 18:17
Min L Shaw  
Will wrote:
>I found the PCS to be overlong and, once again, unbelievable.

On the point of overlong, I agree, and I say this as someone who rates
the TWINE teaser as one of the best in the series. I think they could
have stopped it at Bond's escape in Bilbao, or even at King's death if
they wanted to hold our suspense through the opening titles.

>It starts out promisingly enough, but devolves into an overly long boat chase that bordered on Moonraker shenanigans. The boat traveling through streets and restaurants?

Oddly enough, that bit didn't bother me nearly as much as the fact that
MI-6 had just had a hole blown in it and an assassin in a boat firing
on it with a machine gun...and James Bond is the ONLY agent in the
entire building, nea, in all of LONDON, who bothers to go in pursuit?!

>Or how about Bond leaping out of the boat mid-air and somehow grabbing the hot air balloon rope !!!

I suppose once you've swallowed Blofeld actually hollowing out a
volcano and installing an entire fortress there with about a thousand
employees in uniforms, a monorail, an office with a collapsable bridge
and captured rockets, James Bond working out the timing to grab a rope
from a boat just doesn't seem that unbelievable

>Fun? Sure Is !!! Bond has to be more than just fun for me. Moonraker is a fun movie.

You know better than anyone else what works for you, hoss. And I agree
with your sentiment; the pure escapism stuff should be balanced by some
acknowledgment of reality. Still, I think TWINE had some pretty good
ideas based in reality. Bond sustaining an injury (mostly) throughout
the movie was a nice touch; Ian Fleming left 007 practically in
physical shambles at the end of virtually all of his stories, and it
was about time the screen Bond came off as something less than
Superman. Stockholm syndrome was, I thought, a great choice for
Elektra's motive, as opposed to one-dimensional world domination
(coughDraxcough). Bond actually has some personal investment (I
wouldn't dare call it "love," but maybe some affection) in Elektra.
Witness his intensity as he catches up to Renard in the plutonium, um,
lab. That's a guy who's pissed off that someone else has hurt his
girl. I think the capture of M should have been a lot more convincing
and carried a lot more weight, but I'll give Purvis & Wade credit: they
got that idea straight out of "Colonel Sun," showing they're familiar
with Bond in a medium other than cinema, which I'm sure can't be said
of all the folks in the audience.
Re: Rewatched TWINE..... [message #232516 ] Mo, 06 März 2006 18:44
Will Traynor  
"Min L Shaw" <minlshaw [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1141664559.581834.280400 [at] z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Will, in response to TWINE, wrote:
>
>>So non-sensical destruction trumps believability. Whatever happened to
>>sending an assassin to kill someone?
>
> Like in, say TB, where the assassin's car is destroyed by yet a second
> assassin, using a sidecar rocket, who then ditches the entire
> motorcycle with no visible second means of transportation? Personally,
> I thought the parahawks were an inspired choice for the villains. I
> thought Bond disposed of them too easily, of course, but I thought the
> idea was pretty solid.
>

You actually think Fiona was left without radio communication? Come on....
As an action sequence the parahawk scene was pretty boring, IMHO. Bond has
worn out his welcome with skiing sequences. After the FYEO skiing sequence,
it's time for some new ideas.
Re: Rewatched TWINE..... [message #232518 ] Mo, 06 März 2006 19:01
Will Traynor  
"Min L Shaw" <minlshaw [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1141665448.510851.6930 [at] v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> Will wrote:
>>I found the PCS to be overlong and, once again, unbelievable.
>
> On the point of overlong, I agree, and I say this as someone who rates
> the TWINE teaser as one of the best in the series. I think they could
> have stopped it at Bond's escape in Bilbao, or even at King's death if
> they wanted to hold our suspense through the opening titles.
>
>>It starts out promisingly enough, but devolves into an overly long boat
>>chase that bordered on Moonraker shenanigans. The boat traveling through
>>streets and restaurants?
>
> Oddly enough, that bit didn't bother me nearly as much as the fact that
> MI-6 had just had a hole blown in it and an assassin in a boat firing
> on it with a machine gun...and James Bond is the ONLY agent in the
> entire building, nea, in all of LONDON, who bothers to go in pursuit?!
>

It bothered me to the point where I was getting visions of gondolas gracing
the streets of Italy. Ugh. Good point about Bond being the lone agent,
although that doesn't bother me too much, since Bond seems to always succeed
where other 00 agents fail :-)

>>Or how about Bond leaping out of the boat mid-air and somehow grabbing the
>>hot air balloon rope !!!
>
> I suppose once you've swallowed Blofeld actually hollowing out a
> volcano and installing an entire fortress there with about a thousand
> employees in uniforms, a monorail, an office with a collapsable bridge
> and captured rockets, James Bond working out the timing to grab a rope
> from a boat just doesn't seem that unbelievable
>

True, that was a bit much with YOLT, I agree. As for the stunt in TWINE, it
was blatantly impossible. I thought I was watching Spiderman for a moment.


>>Fun? Sure Is !!! Bond has to be more than just fun for me. Moonraker is a
>>fun movie.
>
> You know better than anyone else what works for you, hoss. And I agree
> with your sentiment; the pure escapism stuff should be balanced by some
> acknowledgment of reality. Still, I think TWINE had some pretty good
> ideas based in reality. Bond sustaining an injury (mostly) throughout
> the movie was a nice touch; Ian Fleming left 007 practically in
> physical shambles at the end of virtually all of his stories, and it
> was about time the screen Bond came off as something less than
> Superman. Stockholm syndrome was, I thought, a great choice for
> Elektra's motive, as opposed to one-dimensional world domination
> (coughDraxcough). Bond actually has some personal investment (I
> wouldn't dare call it "love," but maybe some affection) in Elektra.
> Witness his intensity as he catches up to Renard in the plutonium, um,
> lab. That's a guy who's pissed off that someone else has hurt his
> girl. I think the capture of M should have been a lot more convincing
> and carried a lot more weight, but I'll give Purvis & Wade credit: they
> got that idea straight out of "Colonel Sun," showing they're familiar
> with Bond in a medium other than cinema, which I'm sure can't be said
> of all the folks in the audience.
>

All good points. I agree for the most part. But Denise Richards, Renard's
character, and the poor action sequences I mentioned before bring this movie
down, IMHO.
Re: Rewatched TWINE..... [message #232545 ] Di, 07 März 2006 01:41
Mac  
phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com wrote:

> Apart from the excellence of the writing and direction, almost every
> episiode is a Casting Director's dream. 'To Be a Somebody', which
> features Carlyle and Christopher Eccleston, both of whom have gone on
> to huge success since, is a case in point.

Eccleston was a regular in the series. I always thought Carlyle was
menacing as Francis "Franco" Begbie and as the title character in
LOOKING AFTER JO JO.
--
--Mac

"Vargas does not drink...does not smoke...does not make love.
What do you do, Vargas?"

"Vargas doesn't embarrass himself in front of billions with an
unfunny skit involving a green suit, that's for sure."
Re: Rewatched TWINE..... [message #232547 ] Di, 07 März 2006 02:01
Mac  
Adam H. Kerman wrote:

> "Cracker" was brilliant television. Even the American versions of the
> original British scripts were good; the new scripts written for the
> American show didn't work.

It's coming back this year. The original version, I mean. I understand
it would take one hell of an agent, or Patricia Arquette, to get Robert
Pastorelli back...
--
--Mac

"James Bond. You appear with the tedious inevitability of one
of Charlie Sheen's dates appearing on the top rack at the
video store."
Re: Rewatched TWINE..... [message #233019 ] Di, 07 März 2006 06:57
ahk  
At 12:41am -0000, 03/07/06, Mac <see.mac [at] SPAMLESSvirgin.net> wrote:
>phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com wrote:

>>Apart from the excellence of the writing and direction, almost every
>>episiode is a Casting Director's dream. 'To Be a Somebody', which
>>features Carlyle and Christopher Eccleston, both of whom have gone on
>>to huge success since, is a case in point.

>Eccleston was a regular in the series. I always thought Carlyle was
>menacing as Francis "Franco" Begbie and as the title character in
>LOOKING AFTER JO JO.

Nobody liked him in his most popular comedy?

On the other hand, I've tried to watch "Hamish Macbeth" a few times and
cannot get through it. That show was on for years.
Cracker (was: Rewatched TWINE.....) [message #233020 ] Di, 07 März 2006 07:02
ahk  
At 1:01am -0000, 03/07/06, Mac <see.mac [at] SPAMLESSvirgin.net> wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman wrote:

>>"Cracker" was brilliant television. Even the American versions of the
>>original British scripts were good; the new scripts written for the
>>American show didn't work.

>It's coming back this year. The original version, I mean.

Oh, that is good news. I hope this means decent scripts. I take it after
playing Hagrid in four movies, Robbie Coltraine is ready to try his hand
at actual acting again.

Did anyone ever see his comedy act? Any good?

>I understand it would take one hell of an agent, or Patricia Arquette, to
>get Robert Pastorelli back...

I have to say that I wasn't expecting anything from Eldin, but damn, he
was quite good in the role.

btw, both the British and American versions were syndicated together,
probably so they'd have more of a run to sell. Anyone unfamiliar with it
would be able to compare.
Re: Rewatched TWINE..... [message #233036 ] Di, 07 März 2006 18:13
phil.gerrard1  
Mac wrote:

> It's coming back this year. The original version, I mean.

Now that you mention it, I recall reading that somewhere. Not quite
sure how I feel about it - there was a drop in quality in the later
episodes of the original series IMHO - but here's hoping.

Best

Phil
Re: Cracker (was: Rewatched TWINE.....) [message #233039 ] Di, 07 März 2006 18:29
phil.gerrard1  
Adam wrote:

> Did anyone ever see his comedy act? Any good?

I always thought he was like Nigel Planer, a comic actor who fell in
with the Comic Strip crowd, rather than a comedian per se - he appeared
in lots of sketch shows etc, but I don't recall any stand-up type
stuff. However, given the state of my memory recently, I wouldn't
swear to that :-)

> I have to say that I wasn't expecting anything from Eldin, but damn, he
> was quite good in the role.

He wasn't bad at all, and was the best thing in the US version, I
thought, but for me Fitz is one of those characters who's so associated
with the actor who plays him that I spent most of my time comparing
Pastorelli to Coltrane, and not really watching the show in its own
right.

Best

Phil

RIP John Junkin, Ivor Cutler, and Ali Farka Toure...
Re: Cracker (was: Rewatched TWINE.....) [message #233044 ] Di, 07 März 2006 21:39
Rhino  
On 7 Mar 2006 09:29:31 -0800, "phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com"
<phil.gerrard1 [at] ntlworld.com> wrote:


>RIP John Junkin

Damn. I met him as well. Thoroughly nice chap.
Re: Rewatched TWINE..... [message #233120 ] Do, 09 März 2006 00:47
Bondpix  
"Min L Shaw" <minlshaw [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1141665448.510851.6930 [at] v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> Will wrote:
> >I found the PCS to be overlong and, once again, unbelievable.
>
> On the point of overlong, I agree, and I say this as someone who rates
> the TWINE teaser as one of the best in the series. I think they could
> have stopped it at Bond's escape in Bilbao, or even at King's death if
> they wanted to hold our suspense through the opening titles.
>
> >It starts out promisingly enough, but devolves into an overly long boat
chase that bordered on Moonraker shenanigans. The boat traveling through
streets and restaurants?
>
> Oddly enough, that bit didn't bother me nearly as much as the fact that
> MI-6 had just had a hole blown in it and an assassin in a boat firing
> on it with a machine gun...and James Bond is the ONLY agent in the
> entire building, nea, in all of LONDON, who bothers to go in pursuit?!
>

They actually filmed a couple of sequences where two police boats joined in
the chase at Tower Bridge.

> >Or how about Bond leaping out of the boat mid-air and somehow grabbing
the hot air balloon rope !!!
>
> I suppose once you've swallowed Blofeld actually hollowing out a
> volcano and installing an entire fortress there with about a thousand
> employees in uniforms, a monorail, an office with a collapsable bridge
> and captured rockets, James Bond working out the timing to grab a rope
> from a boat just doesn't seem that unbelievable
>
> >Fun? Sure Is !!! Bond has to be more than just fun for me. Moonraker is a
fun movie.
>
> You know better than anyone else what works for you, hoss. And I agree
> with your sentiment; the pure escapism stuff should be balanced by some
> acknowledgment of reality. Still, I think TWINE had some pretty good
> ideas based in reality. Bond sustaining an injury (mostly) throughout
> the movie was a nice touch; Ian Fleming left 007 practically in
> physical shambles at the end of virtually all of his stories, and it
> was about time the screen Bond came off as something less than
> Superman. Stockholm syndrome was, I thought, a great choice for
> Elektra's motive, as opposed to one-dimensional world domination
> (coughDraxcough). Bond actually has some personal investment (I
> wouldn't dare call it "love," but maybe some affection) in Elektra.
> Witness his intensity as he catches up to Renard in the plutonium, um,
> lab. That's a guy who's pissed off that someone else has hurt his
> girl. I think the capture of M should have been a lot more convincing
> and carried a lot more weight, but I'll give Purvis & Wade credit: they
> got that idea straight out of "Colonel Sun," showing they're familiar
> with Bond in a medium other than cinema, which I'm sure can't be said
> of all the folks in the audience.
>
Re: Rewatched TWINE..... [message #233138 ] Do, 09 März 2006 08:59
JHause  
Yeah. A character who can't feel pain isn't all that intimidating. It
just means he won't feel anything when Bond kills him -- it doesn't
make him any more of a challenge.
Re: Rewatched TWINE..... [message #233159 ] Do, 09 März 2006 16:07
Will Traynor  
"JHause" <JHause [at] aol.com> wrote in message
news:1141891183.686553.194200 [at] e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
> Yeah. A character who can't feel pain isn't all that intimidating. It
> just means he won't feel anything when Bond kills him -- it doesn't
> make him any more of a challenge.
>

And I believe his injury was quite ridiculous, could never happen - LOL
Re: Rewatched TWINE..... [message #242859 ] Mo, 27 März 2006 02:58
Lee Edward McIlmoyle  
"phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com" <phil.gerrard1 [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in
news:1141604326.024973.254440 [at] z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

> Watch the 'Cracker' episode 'To Be a Somebody', and tell me the guy
> was a 'little runt of an actor' or miscast. If he didn't work for you
> in TWINE, fine, and I have my doubts about the way the character
> worked as well, but don't tell me Carlyle can't act or can't be scary.
>
> Best
>
> Phil

Actually, I'm something of a Robert Carlyle fan, but his role was
underdone in TWINE. Not his fault. They really confused and got a bad
mix on his character, because they sort of fumbled the bait and switch.
You saw the pea perhaps a little too early. Carlysle as an actor is
awesome, and I seriously hope he gets another shot at an A-list villain
role like this (let alone a decent A-list hero role; The 51st State was
great fun, but I gather it stiffed in America as Formula 51. So sad).

Basically, the problem was, TWINE was a story that needed to be about
OHMSS length to pull it off, but no movie producer will ever let that
happen again for a Bond film unless they seriously believe it has Oscar
potential, which isn't going to happen any time soon.

That said, I do seriously hope that Craig brings us just a little bit
closer to a nom for something other than effects or editting. I'd like
to see an actor playing Bond walk away from the podium with a little
golden statue before I die. Most of the Bond canon could never have
hoped for as much, but I deeply believe that Bond could be that good
done right.

Lee Edward McIlmoyle,
holding out hope
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