I really hate convenient plot details

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Fantasy » alt.fan.harry-potter » I really hate convenient plot details

I really hate convenient plot details [message #231693]

So, 12 März 2006 08:33

Jason Lane

Another nice long drive from L.A. to S.F. and back gave me time to
listen to HBP on CD again. Dumbledore is so sharp and perceptive most
of the time, and yet somehow, he completely fails to see through Tom
Riddle from the get go, and refuses to look into Malfoy's activity
despite repeated insistence from Harry, who has details.

It strikes me as those convenient plot points that so often infest
movies. Just do something really dumb that makes no sense for the sake
of advancing the story so we can get to the result we want, like the
old running upstairs move in a horror movie. It totally sours me on
the story in the process.

And I still believe Snape is a double agent or he wouldn't have told
Harry at the very end to keep his mouth shut and his mind closed
before departing.

Also, he isn't the HBP. The book is 50 years old, the time when Voldy
was at Hogwarts. And only Voldy, a half-blood wizard, was arrogant
enough to claim a title like that for himself. Snape isn't the type to
give himself that kind of title. Why Snape claimed the book for
himself, who knows. Maybe we will get an answer, especially when Harry
retrieves the book.

Finally, I'm convinced a Horcrux is in the Room of Requirement. Harry
will likely find it when he goes for the book.

Re: I really hate convenient plot details [message #231695 ]

So, 12 März 2006 09:51

friesian

Jason Lane wrote:

> Also, he isn't the HBP. The book is 50 years old, the time when Voldy
> was at Hogwarts. And only Voldy, a half-blood wizard, was arrogant
> enough to claim a title like that for himself. Snape isn't the type to
> give himself that kind of title. Why Snape claimed the book for
> himself, who knows. Maybe we will get an answer, especially when Harry
> retrieves the book.

If the book was 50 years old when Harry got it, then it was printed
after Tom Riddle left Hogwarts. The chamber was opened in Harry's 2nd
year, so at the time of HBP, it would have been 54 years previous. And
Tom was a prefect by then, so he was at least a 5th year, possibly a
6th year student. The book would have been printed after he was in the
6th year potion class.

Also, I don't think JKR would tell us specifically that Voldemort/Tom
Riddle is not the HBP if she planned to change it in book 7.

Much more likely that Snape's mom had the book and passed it along to
Snape.

Re: I really hate convenient plot details [message #231724 ]

So, 12 März 2006 15:53

Magic_mom

Jason Lane wrote:
> Another nice long drive from L.A. to S.F. and back gave me time to
> listen to HBP on CD again. Dumbledore is so sharp and perceptive most
> of the time, and yet somehow, he completely fails to see through Tom
> Riddle from the get go, and refuses to look into Malfoy's activity
> despite repeated insistence from Harry, who has details.
>
> It strikes me as those convenient plot points that so often infest
> movies. Just do something really dumb that makes no sense for the sake
> of advancing the story so we can get to the result we want, like the
> old running upstairs move in a horror movie. It totally sours me on
> the story in the process.
>
> And I still believe Snape is a double agent or he wouldn't have told
> Harry at the very end to keep his mouth shut and his mind closed
> before departing.
>
> Also, he isn't the HBP. The book is 50 years old, the time when Voldy
> was at Hogwarts. And only Voldy, a half-blood wizard, was arrogant
> enough to claim a title like that for himself. Snape isn't the type to
> give himself that kind of title. Why Snape claimed the book for
> himself, who knows. Maybe we will get an answer, especially when Harry
> retrieves the book.
>
> Finally, I'm convinced a Horcrux is in the Room of Requirement. Harry
> will likely find it when he goes for the book.

Why do some people have such a difficult time with the fact that just
because a school book is old, it doesn't mean it wasn't passed around
over the years?? As early as the 2nd book, we know in the world of
Harry Potter that they can and do buy used text books. And as these are
very specialized books, it does not appear that there is someone out
there writing new magical text books every two years. They are using
books that have been written many many, maybe hundreds of years, ago,
even if there are new printings of them. But it would NOT be unusual to
have really old ones hanging around!
And I am also betting that the book is old news as far as the story. It
served it's purpose in HBP, but that's all.

M_m

Re: I really hate convenient plot details [message #231726 ]

So, 12 März 2006 16:18

wadkin2000

Magic_mom wrote:
> Jason Lane wrote:
> > Another nice long drive from L.A. to S.F. and back gave me time to
> > listen to HBP on CD again. Dumbledore is so sharp and perceptive most
> > of the time, and yet somehow, he completely fails to see through Tom
> > Riddle from the get go, and refuses to look into Malfoy's activity
> > despite repeated insistence from Harry, who has details.
> >
> > It strikes me as those convenient plot points that so often infest
> > movies. Just do something really dumb that makes no sense for the sake
> > of advancing the story so we can get to the result we want, like the
> > old running upstairs move in a horror movie. It totally sours me on
> > the story in the process.
> >
> > And I still believe Snape is a double agent or he wouldn't have told
> > Harry at the very end to keep his mouth shut and his mind closed
> > before departing.
> >
> > Also, he isn't the HBP. The book is 50 years old, the time when Voldy
> > was at Hogwarts. And only Voldy, a half-blood wizard, was arrogant
> > enough to claim a title like that for himself. Snape isn't the type to
> > give himself that kind of title. Why Snape claimed the book for
> > himself, who knows. Maybe we will get an answer, especially when Harry
> > retrieves the book.
> >
> > Finally, I'm convinced a Horcrux is in the Room of Requirement. Harry
> > will likely find it when he goes for the book.
>
> Why do some people have such a difficult time with the fact that just
> because a school book is old, it doesn't mean it wasn't passed around
> over the years?? As early as the 2nd book, we know in the world of
> Harry Potter that they can and do buy used text books. And as these are
> very specialized books, it does not appear that there is someone out
> there writing new magical text books every two years. They are using
> books that have been written many many, maybe hundreds of years, ago,
> even if there are new printings of them. But it would NOT be unusual to
> have really old ones hanging around!
> And I am also betting that the book is old news as far as the story. It
> served it's purpose in HBP, but that's all.
>
> M_m

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but in reading these
posts, does anyone else think how terribly coincidental that it was
Harry who received Snape's old potions book?

Re: I really hate convenient plot details [message #231737 ]

So, 12 März 2006 18:04

Ken

lots sniped

Jason Lane wrote:
> Dumbledore is so sharp and perceptive most
> of the time, and yet somehow, he completely fails to see through Tom
> Riddle from the get go,

I think that DD saw through TR from the second he met him.... so why did DD
bring him to Hogwarts?.... in hopes that the school would turn around this
already bad wizard.

Jason Lane wrote:
and refuses to look into Malfoy's activity
> despite repeated insistence from Harry, who has details.

My impression is that he did look into Malfoy's activities but just refused
to talk to Harry about it.

Re: I really hate convenient plot details [message #231738 ]

So, 12 März 2006 18:20

scenario_dave

Jason Lane wrote:
> Another nice long drive from L.A. to S.F. and back gave me time to
> listen to HBP on CD again. Dumbledore is so sharp and perceptive most
> of the time, and yet somehow, he completely fails to see through Tom
> Riddle from the get go, and refuses to look into Malfoy's activity
> despite repeated insistence from Harry, who has details.

I think it's pretty obvious that DD had a very good idea what Malfoy
was up to. He decided to allow it to continue for his own reasons. I
believe that DD feels that their is good in all people and that anyone
can be rehibilitated.

I also believe that he knew that Tom was evil from the first but wanted
to give him a chance to rehibilitate himself.

DD has a more that a little naive belief in the ultimate goodness of
all people, but he is not stupid.
>

> And I still believe Snape is a double agent or he wouldn't have told
> Harry at the very end to keep his mouth shut and his mind closed
> before departing.

Yes, of course he is a double agent, it says so many times in the book.
The question is, who is he really loyal to?

>
> Also, he isn't the HBP. The book is 50 years old, the time when Voldy
> was at Hogwarts. And only Voldy, a half-blood wizard, was arrogant
> enough to claim a title like that for himself. Snape isn't the type to
> give himself that kind of title. Why Snape claimed the book for
> himself, who knows. Maybe we will get an answer, especially when Harry
> retrieves the book.

I don't know where you went to high school but some of the books I used
in H.S. were 20 year old. I've used the prior edition of textbooks in
college more than once. In the U.S. new additions come out every couple
of years. I woudn't be suprised if wizards only update their books
every 30- 40 years, and if they're like college books, the updates are
small. If a book has been used for two or three hundred years, there
aren't many typos left to correct. A fifty year old textbook is
probably something like version 4 and the current one is version 5.

Once I read the HBP, I came to the conclusion that the title is not a
title, it is a literal pun.
>
> Finally, I'm convinced a Horcrux is in the Room of Requirement. Harry
> will likely find it when he goes for the book.

Possible

Re: I really hate convenient plot details [message #231745 ]

So, 12 März 2006 19:41

Thomas Madura

Jason Lane wrote:

> Another nice long drive from L.A. to S.F. and back gave me time to
> listen to HBP on CD again. Dumbledore is so sharp and perceptive most
> of the time, and yet somehow, he completely fails to see through Tom
> Riddle from the get go, and refuses to look into Malfoy's activity
> despite repeated insistence from Harry, who has details.
>
> It strikes me as those convenient plot points that so often infest
> movies. Just do something really dumb that makes no sense for the sake
> of advancing the story so we can get to the result we want, like the
> old running upstairs move in a horror movie. It totally sours me on
> the story in the process.
>
> And I still believe Snape is a double agent or he wouldn't have told
> Harry at the very end to keep his mouth shut and his mind closed
> before departing.
>
> Also, he isn't the HBP. The book is 50 years old, the time when Voldy
> was at Hogwarts. And only Voldy, a half-blood wizard, was arrogant
> enough to claim a title like that for himself. Snape isn't the type to
> give himself that kind of title. Why Snape claimed the book for
> himself, who knows. Maybe we will get an answer, especially when Harry
> retrieves the book.
>
> Finally, I'm convinced a Horcrux is in the Room of Requirement. Harry
> will likely find it when he goes for the book.

There is no indication that Snape gave himself that title - but I can
imagine that he KNEW what the title meant and therefore - who had the
book previously. While Snape may not be the kind to give himslef the
title for public use - I could imagine him doing so in private. WHat kid
has never though of himslef as Superman at least once in his life?

Re: I really hate convenient plot details [message #231751 ]

So, 12 März 2006 20:30

cwlNOSPAM

In article <MXZQf.13804$8w2.11998 [at] bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Thom Madura <Thom-Madura [at] Worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>Jason Lane wrote:
>
>> Another nice long drive from L.A. to S.F. and back gave me time to
>> listen to HBP on CD again. Dumbledore is so sharp and perceptive most
>> of the time, and yet somehow, he completely fails to see through Tom
>> Riddle from the get go, and refuses to look into Malfoy's activity
>> despite repeated insistence from Harry, who has details.
>>
>> It strikes me as those convenient plot points that so often infest
>> movies. Just do something really dumb that makes no sense for the sake
>> of advancing the story so we can get to the result we want, like the
>> old running upstairs move in a horror movie. It totally sours me on
>> the story in the process.
>>
>> And I still believe Snape is a double agent or he wouldn't have told
>> Harry at the very end to keep his mouth shut and his mind closed
>> before departing.
>>
>> Also, he isn't the HBP. The book is 50 years old, the time when Voldy
>> was at Hogwarts. And only Voldy, a half-blood wizard, was arrogant
>> enough to claim a title like that for himself. Snape isn't the type to
>> give himself that kind of title. Why Snape claimed the book for
>> himself, who knows. Maybe we will get an answer, especially when Harry
>> retrieves the book.
>>
>> Finally, I'm convinced a Horcrux is in the Room of Requirement. Harry
>> will likely find it when he goes for the book.
>
>
>There is no indication that Snape gave himself that title - but I can
>imagine that he KNEW what the title meant and therefore - who had the
>book previously. While Snape may not be the kind to give himslef the
>title for public use - I could imagine him doing so in private. WHat kid
>has never though of himslef as Superman at least once in his life?

For the sake of clarity, do you mean that when Snape said "I, the
Half-Blood Prince!" he was covering for LV?
--
Chris

Re: I really hate convenient plot details [message #231753 ]

So, 12 März 2006 20:36

drusilla

Green-Eyed Chris escribió:
> In article <MXZQf.13804$8w2.11998 [at] bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> Thom Madura <Thom-Madura [at] Worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>> Jason Lane wrote:
>>
>>> Another nice long drive from L.A. to S.F. and back gave me time to
>>> listen to HBP on CD again. Dumbledore is so sharp and perceptive most
>>> of the time, and yet somehow, he completely fails to see through Tom
>>> Riddle from the get go, and refuses to look into Malfoy's activity
>>> despite repeated insistence from Harry, who has details.
>>>
>>> It strikes me as those convenient plot points that so often infest
>>> movies. Just do something really dumb that makes no sense for the sake
>>> of advancing the story so we can get to the result we want, like the
>>> old running upstairs move in a horror movie. It totally sours me on
>>> the story in the process.
>>>
>>> And I still believe Snape is a double agent or he wouldn't have told
>>> Harry at the very end to keep his mouth shut and his mind closed
>>> before departing.
>>>
>>> Also, he isn't the HBP. The book is 50 years old, the time when Voldy
>>> was at Hogwarts. And only Voldy, a half-blood wizard, was arrogant
>>> enough to claim a title like that for himself. Snape isn't the type to
>>> give himself that kind of title. Why Snape claimed the book for
>>> himself, who knows. Maybe we will get an answer, especially when Harry
>>> retrieves the book.
>>>
>>> Finally, I'm convinced a Horcrux is in the Room of Requirement. Harry
>>> will likely find it when he goes for the book.
>>
>> There is no indication that Snape gave himself that title - but I can
>> imagine that he KNEW what the title meant and therefore - who had the
>> book previously. While Snape may not be the kind to give himslef the
>> title for public use - I could imagine him doing so in private.

I can't imagine how anyone can use a title in private? (Ok, I do but
that's creepy: Snape in his bedroom calling himself a prince...)

WHat kid
>> has never though of himslef as Superman at least once in his life?

> For the sake of clarity, do you mean that when Snape said "I, the
> Half-Blood Prince!" he was covering for LV?

I hope not. JKR says LV is not the HBP.

Re: I really hate convenient plot details [message #231755 ]

So, 12 März 2006 20:49

scenario_dave

>
> There is no indication that Snape gave himself that title - but I can
> imagine that he KNEW what the title meant and therefore - who had the
> book previously. While Snape may not be the kind to give himslef the
> title for public use - I could imagine him doing so in private. WHat kid
> has never though of himslef as Superman at least once in his life?

I don't see why Snape might not think of himself as the HBP but never
say it in public. He was bullied in school. If he called himself the
HBP in public he would have been laughed at. Once he killed DD, why
not declare himself the HBP. The other DE wouldn't be surprised to hear
it.

One thought just occured to me, could Snape and LV be the Two Towers of
the book. Snape is planning to betray LV and take his place. DD knew
about it, hid it from Snape by pretending to believe him and setting it
up so Snape and LV destroy each other, thereby giving Harry a chance to
defeat LV in the end.

Re: I really hate convenient plot details [message #231813 ]

Mo, 13 März 2006 09:50

Toon

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:33:41 -0800, Jason Lane <jason [at] jason.com>
wrote:

>Another nice long drive from L.A. to S.F. and back gave me time to
>listen to HBP on CD again. Dumbledore is so sharp and perceptive most
>of the time, and yet somehow, he completely fails to see through Tom
>Riddle from the get go, and refuses to look into Malfoy's activity
>despite repeated insistence from Harry, who has details.

Yet strangely, DD had even more info the Harry did on Draco. How odd
he never trusted someone with less intel then he, himself, had.

>Also, he isn't the HBP. The book is 50 years old, the time when Voldy
>was at Hogwarts. And only Voldy, a half-blood wizard, was arrogant
>enough to claim a title like that for himself. Snape isn't the type to
>give himself that kind of title. Why Snape claimed the book for
>himself, who knows. Maybe we will get an answer, especially when Harry
>retrieves the book.

So, Voldikins is the HBP. OOh, good catch on JK lying about him not
being the HBP. Go, leave this group and solve all the unsolved crimes
in the world. Genius such as yours can't be wasted on us. To know
with 100% Snape was never the type to dole out secret titles for
himself. and as always, aces for figuring out only the original owner
can do the spells. Under no circumstances and a used book be tampered
with by anybody else. Silly me missed that rule in the books.

>Finally, I'm convinced a Horcrux is in the Room of Requirement. Harry
>will likely find it when he goes for the book.

Somehting's there. No point in Junk City if there isn't a few good
things in there.

Re: I really hate convenient plot details [message #231814 ]

Mo, 13 März 2006 09:53

Toon

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:04:24 -0600, "Here in Minnesota"
<neverwillicheckthis [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

>lots sniped
>
>Jason Lane wrote:
>> Dumbledore is so sharp and perceptive most
>> of the time, and yet somehow, he completely fails to see through Tom
>> Riddle from the get go,
>
>I think that DD saw through TR from the second he met him.... so why did DD
>bring him to Hogwarts?.... in hopes that the school would turn around this
>already bad wizard.

REmember, he flat out tells young Tom if he keeps it up, he'll be
banned from magic 9I paraphrased). after that, Tom appeared to be a
model student. Though DD had his suspicions, he hoped as is his way,
the threat of no magic turned Tom around. A possible scenario
undoubtedly played out before.

Re: I really hate convenient plot details [message #231815 ]

Mo, 13 März 2006 09:55

Toon

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:41:48 GMT, Thom Madura
<Thom-Madura [at] Worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>Jason Lane wrote:
>
>> Another nice long drive from L.A. to S.F. and back gave me time to
>> listen to HBP on CD again. Dumbledore is so sharp and perceptive most
>> of the time, and yet somehow, he completely fails to see through Tom
>> Riddle from the get go, and refuses to look into Malfoy's activity
>> despite repeated insistence from Harry, who has details.
>>
>> It strikes me as those convenient plot points that so often infest
>> movies. Just do something really dumb that makes no sense for the sake
>> of advancing the story so we can get to the result we want, like the
>> old running upstairs move in a horror movie. It totally sours me on
>> the story in the process.
>>
>> And I still believe Snape is a double agent or he wouldn't have told
>> Harry at the very end to keep his mouth shut and his mind closed
>> before departing.
>>
>> Also, he isn't the HBP. The book is 50 years old, the time when Voldy
>> was at Hogwarts. And only Voldy, a half-blood wizard, was arrogant
>> enough to claim a title like that for himself. Snape isn't the type to
>> give himself that kind of title. Why Snape claimed the book for
>> himself, who knows. Maybe we will get an answer, especially when Harry
>> retrieves the book.
>>
>> Finally, I'm convinced a Horcrux is in the Room of Requirement. Harry
>> will likely find it when he goes for the book.
>
>
>There is no indication that Snape gave himself that title - but I can
>imagine that he KNEW what the title meant and therefore - who had the
>book previously. While Snape may not be the kind to give himslef the
>title for public use - I could imagine him doing so in private. WHat kid
>has never though of himslef as Superman at least once in his life?

And look how many tried to fly.

Re: I really hate convenient plot details [message #231816 ]

Mo, 13 März 2006 09:58

Toon

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:36:10 -0500, drusilla <me [at] me.net> wrote:

>I can't imagine how anyone can use a title in private? (Ok, I do but
>that's creepy: Snape in his bedroom calling himself a prince...)

Tom pretty much did, then let others in on it. And a study showed
many people call themselves Lance when talking to themselves (well,
maybe just the guys). Don't you find it even creepier to give
yourself an alternate name to talk to yourself with? I always know
when I'm talking to myself. Though I like to pretend my reflection is
a living being unto himself at times. But I know it's not true.

Re: I really hate convenient plot details [message #231862 ]

Mo, 13 März 2006 21:01

Thomas Madura

Green-Eyed Chris wrote:
> In article <MXZQf.13804$8w2.11998 [at] bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> Thom Madura <Thom-Madura [at] Worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Jason Lane wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Another nice long drive from L.A. to S.F. and back gave me time to
>>>listen to HBP on CD again. Dumbledore is so sharp and perceptive most
>>>of the time, and yet somehow, he completely fails to see through Tom
>>>Riddle from the get go, and refuses to look into Malfoy's activity
>>>despite repeated insistence from Harry, who has details.
>>>
>>>It strikes me as those convenient plot points that so often infest
>>>movies. Just do something really dumb that makes no sense for the sake
>>>of advancing the story so we can get to the result we want, like the
>>>old running upstairs move in a horror movie. It totally sours me on
>>>the story in the process.
>>>
>>>And I still believe Snape is a double agent or he wouldn't have told
>>>Harry at the very end to keep his mouth shut and his mind closed
>>>before departing.
>>>
>>>Also, he isn't the HBP. The book is 50 years old, the time when Voldy
>>>was at Hogwarts. And only Voldy, a half-blood wizard, was arrogant
>>>enough to claim a title like that for himself. Snape isn't the type to
>>>give himself that kind of title. Why Snape claimed the book for
>>>himself, who knows. Maybe we will get an answer, especially when Harry
>>>retrieves the book.
>>>
>>>Finally, I'm convinced a Horcrux is in the Room of Requirement. Harry
>>>will likely find it when he goes for the book.
>>
>>
>>There is no indication that Snape gave himself that title - but I can
>>imagine that he KNEW what the title meant and therefore - who had the
>>book previously. While Snape may not be the kind to give himslef the
>>title for public use - I could imagine him doing so in private. WHat kid
>>has never though of himslef as Superman at least once in his life?
>
>
> For the sake of clarity, do you mean that when Snape said "I, the
> Half-Blood Prince!" he was covering for LV?
> --
> Chris

My point was that Snape would have been able to figure out that Riddle
had the book first. As far as covering for Riddle - I don't think Riddle
would care.

Re: I really hate convenient plot details [message #238130 ]

Di, 14 März 2006 00:59

cwlNOSPAM

In article <5ckRf.556136$qk4.482435 [at] bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Thom Madura <Thom-Madura [at] Worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>Green-Eyed Chris wrote:
>> In article <MXZQf.13804$8w2.11998 [at] bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>> Thom Madura <Thom-Madura [at] Worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Jason Lane wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Another nice long drive from L.A. to S.F. and back gave me time to
>>>>listen to HBP on CD again. Dumbledore is so sharp and perceptive most
>>>>of the time, and yet somehow, he completely fails to see through Tom
>>>>Riddle from the get go, and refuses to look into Malfoy's activity
>>>>despite repeated insistence from Harry, who has details.
>>>>
>>>>It strikes me as those convenient plot points that so often infest
>>>>movies. Just do something really dumb that makes no sense for the sake
>>>>of advancing the story so we can get to the result we want, like the
>>>>old running upstairs move in a horror movie. It totally sours me on
>>>>the story in the process.
>>>>
>>>>And I still believe Snape is a double agent or he wouldn't have told
>>>>Harry at the very end to keep his mouth shut and his mind closed
>>>>before departing.
>>>>
>>>>Also, he isn't the HBP. The book is 50 years old, the time when Voldy
>>>>was at Hogwarts. And only Voldy, a half-blood wizard, was arrogant
>>>>enough to claim a title like that for himself. Snape isn't the type to
>>>>give himself that kind of title. Why Snape claimed the book for
>>>>himself, who knows. Maybe we will get an answer, especially when Harry
>>>>retrieves the book.
>>>>
>>>>Finally, I'm convinced a Horcrux is in the Room of Requirement. Harry
>>>>will likely find it when he goes for the book.
>>>
>>>
>>>There is no indication that Snape gave himself that title - but I can
>>>imagine that he KNEW what the title meant and therefore - who had the
>>>book previously. While Snape may not be the kind to give himslef the
>>>title for public use - I could imagine him doing so in private. WHat kid
>>>has never though of himslef as Superman at least once in his life?
>>
>>
>> For the sake of clarity, do you mean that when Snape said "I, the
>> Half-Blood Prince!" he was covering for LV?
>> --
>> Chris
>
>My point was that Snape would have been able to figure out that Riddle
>had the book first. As far as covering for Riddle - I don't think Riddle
>would care.

At the risk of being being pedantic, what did "he KNEW what the title meant"?

I understood it to to mean that Tom Riddle called himself "The Half-Blood
Prince" before coming up with "Lord Voldemort".

That might have been a new thought.
--
Chris

Re: I really hate convenient plot details [message #238155 ]

Di, 14 März 2006 08:56

dicconf

In article <1142176689.627922.38770 [at] i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
<wadkin2000 [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>Magic_mom wrote:
<snip>
>> As early as the 2nd book, we know in the world of
>> Harry Potter that they can and do buy used text books. And as these are
>> very specialized books, it does not appear that there is someone out
>> there writing new magical text books every two years. They are using
>> books that have been written many many, maybe hundreds of years, ago,
>> even if there are new printings of them. But it would NOT be unusual to
>> have really old ones hanging around!

>I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but in reading these
>posts, does anyone else think how terribly coincidental that it was
>Harry who received Snape's old potions book?

Wasn't it handed to Harry by Slughorn? Maybe Slughorn was tipped off
as to which student was to get which book. The whole thing was a set-up;
there was no reason Dumbledore couldn't have told Harry to buy that
year's textbook anyway because he would be taking Potions. I think
it was arranged to make sure Harry got that particular book.

Though actually it would have gotten to Harry even if Ron had been
given it, since they're friends and often share textbooks. (The
Comic Relief FBAWTFT has "writing" in it from all three of the Trio.)

=Tamar

Re: I really hate convenient plot details [message #238184 ]

Di, 14 März 2006 16:23

Ken

>> Magic_mom wrote:
> <snip>

>> I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but in reading these
>> posts, does anyone else think how terribly coincidental that it was
>> Harry who received Snape's old potions book?
>

Not really; let's assume that Snape had a small stack of old potions book
with his old copy on top [we would assume that if he kept his old copy with
the other copies that he would keep it on top for easy reference if he ever
want to check an old note].

Now Slughorn grabbed the top two books for Harry and Ron to use until they
got there new books... what are the chances of Harry getting Snapes book? 50
percent. What are the chances that Harry OR Ron would get Snapes book? 100
percent.

This happened to me when I moved to a different math class a couple weeks in
and got a teachers edition.

Ken

One might say that Snape would have been sure to remove the book after
getting the new position... Snape got his dream job at the last second
before school started [Slughorn was found late]... I wouldn't be surprised
if Snape would have forgotten his graying underwear moving to the DADA
office.

Re: I really hate convenient plot details [message #238185 ]

Di, 14 März 2006 16:50

cwlNOSPAM

In article <1eBRf.5$1w5.0 [at] newsfe13.phx>, "Here in Minnesota"
<neverwillicheckthis [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

>>> Magic_mom wrote:
>> <snip>
>
>>> I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but in reading these
>>> posts, does anyone else think how terribly coincidental that it was
>>> Harry who received Snape's old potions book?
>>
>
>Not really; let's assume that Snape had a small stack of old potions book
>with his old copy on top [we would assume that if he kept his old copy with
>the other copies that he would keep it on top for easy reference if he ever
>want to check an old note].
>
>Now Slughorn grabbed the top two books for Harry and Ron to use until they
>got there new books... what are the chances of Harry getting Snapes book? 50
>percent. What are the chances that Harry OR Ron would get Snapes book? 100
>percent.
>
>This happened to me when I moved to a different math class a couple weeks in
>and got a teachers edition.
>
>Ken
>
>One might say that Snape would have been sure to remove the book after
>getting the new position... Snape got his dream job at the last second
>before school started [Slughorn was found late]... I wouldn't be surprised
>if Snape would have forgotten his graying underwear moving to the DADA
>office.

HBP, Ch. 24:
»Ah, Potter,« said Snape, when Harry had knocked on his door
and entered the unpleasantly familiar office that Snape, despite
teaching floors above now, had not vacated; it was as dimly lit
as ever and the same slimy dead objects were suspended in
coloured potions all around the walls. Ominously, there were
many cobwebbed boxes piled on a table where Harry was clearly
supposed to sit; they had an aura of tedious, hard and pointless
work about them.
--
Chris

Re: I really hate convenient plot details [message #238186 ]

Di, 14 März 2006 17:20

wadkin2000

Green-Eyed Chris wrote:
> In article <1eBRf.5$1w5.0 [at] newsfe13.phx>, "Here in Minnesota"
> <neverwillicheckthis [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Magic_mom wrote:
> >> <snip>
> >
> >>> I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but in reading these
> >>> posts, does anyone else think how terribly coincidental that it was
> >>> Harry who received Snape's old potions book?
> >>
> >
> >Not really; let's assume that Snape had a small stack of old potions book
> >with his old copy on top [we would assume that if he kept his old copy w=
ith
> >the other copies that he would keep it on top for easy reference if he e=
ver
> >want to check an old note].
> >
> >Now Slughorn grabbed the top two books for Harry and Ron to use until th=
ey
> >got there new books... what are the chances of Harry getting Snapes book=
? 50
> >percent. What are the chances that Harry OR Ron would get Snapes book? 1=
00
> >percent.
> >
> >This happened to me when I moved to a different math class a couple week=
s in
> >and got a teachers edition.
> >
> >Ken
> >
> >One might say that Snape would have been sure to remove the book after
> >getting the new position... Snape got his dream job at the last second
> >before school started [Slughorn was found late]... I wouldn't be surpris=
ed
> >if Snape would have forgotten his graying underwear moving to the DADA
> >office.
>
> HBP, Ch. 24:
> =BBAh, Potter,=AB said Snape, when Harry had knocked on his door
> and entered the unpleasantly familiar office that Snape, despite
> teaching floors above now, had not vacated; it was as dimly lit
> as ever and the same slimy dead objects were suspended in
> coloured potions all around the walls. Ominously, there were
> many cobwebbed boxes piled on a table where Harry was clearly
> supposed to sit; they had an aura of tedious, hard and pointless
> work about them.
> --
> Chris

Chapter & verse.....impressive!

Re: I really hate convenient plot details [message #238190 ]

Di, 14 März 2006 18:02

cwlNOSPAM

In article <1142353231.667909.155210 [at] i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
wadkin2000 [at] yahoo.com wrote:

>Green-Eyed Chris wrote:
>> In article <1eBRf.5$1w5.0 [at] newsfe13.phx>, "Here in Minnesota"
>> <neverwillicheckthis [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>> Magic_mom wrote:
>> >> <snip>
>> >
>> >>> I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but in reading these
>> >>> posts, does anyone else think how terribly coincidental that it was
>> >>> Harry who received Snape's old potions book?
>> >>
>> >
>> >Not really; let's assume that Snape had a small stack of old potions book
>> >with his old copy on top [we would assume that if he kept his old copy w=
>ith
>> >the other copies that he would keep it on top for easy reference if he e=
>ver
>> >want to check an old note].
>> >
>> >Now Slughorn grabbed the top two books for Harry and Ron to use until th=
>ey
>> >got there new books... what are the chances of Harry getting Snapes book=
>? 50
>> >percent. What are the chances that Harry OR Ron would get Snapes book? 1=
>00
>> >percent.
>> >
>> >This happened to me when I moved to a different math class a couple week=
>s in
>> >and got a teachers edition.
>> >
>> >Ken
>> >
>> >One might say that Snape would have been sure to remove the book after
>> >getting the new position... Snape got his dream job at the last second
>> >before school started [Slughorn was found late]... I wouldn't be surpris=
>ed
>> >if Snape would have forgotten his graying underwear moving to the DADA
>> >office.
>>
>> HBP, Ch. 24:
>> =BBAh, Potter,=AB said Snape, when Harry had knocked on his door
>> and entered the unpleasantly familiar office that Snape, despite
>> teaching floors above now, had not vacated; it was as dimly lit
>> as ever and the same slimy dead objects were suspended in
>> coloured potions all around the walls. Ominously, there were
>> many cobwebbed boxes piled on a table where Harry was clearly
>> supposed to sit; they had an aura of tedious, hard and pointless
>> work about them.
>> --
>> Chris
>
>
>Chapter & verse.....impressive!

All books, with only minor scanning errors, as searchable .doc or .pdf at:

http://www.geocities.jp/jdsigu12/

The password to open the zip files is:

Slughorn

(Capitalizing matters)
--
Chris

Re: I really hate convenient plot details [message #238195 ]

Di, 14 März 2006 20:06

wadkin2000

Green-Eyed Chris wrote:
> In article <1142353231.667909.155210 [at] i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> wadkin2000 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >Green-Eyed Chris wrote:
> >> In article <1eBRf.5$1w5.0 [at] newsfe13.phx>, "Here in Minnesota"
> >> <neverwillicheckthis [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >>> Magic_mom wrote:
> >> >> <snip>
> >> >
> >> >>> I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but in reading these
> >> >>> posts, does anyone else think how terribly coincidental that it was
> >> >>> Harry who received Snape's old potions book?
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Not really; let's assume that Snape had a small stack of old potions book
> >> >with his old copy on top [we would assume that if he kept his old copy w=
> >ith
> >> >the other copies that he would keep it on top for easy reference if he e=
> >ver
> >> >want to check an old note].
> >> >
> >> >Now Slughorn grabbed the top two books for Harry and Ron to use until th=
> >ey
> >> >got there new books... what are the chances of Harry getting Snapes book=
> >? 50
> >> >percent. What are the chances that Harry OR Ron would get Snapes book? 1=
> >00
> >> >percent.
> >> >
> >> >This happened to me when I moved to a different math class a couple week=
> >s in
> >> >and got a teachers edition.
> >> >
> >> >Ken
> >> >
> >> >One might say that Snape would have been sure to remove the book after
> >> >getting the new position... Snape got his dream job at the last second
> >> >before school started [Slughorn was found late]... I wouldn't be surpris=
> >ed
> >> >if Snape would have forgotten his graying underwear moving to the DADA
> >> >office.
> >>
> >> HBP, Ch. 24:
> >> =BBAh, Potter,=AB said Snape, when Harry had knocked on his door
> >> and entered the unpleasantly familiar office that Snape, despite
> >> teaching floors above now, had not vacated; it was as dimly lit
> >> as ever and the same slimy dead objects were suspended in
> >> coloured potions all around the walls. Ominously, there were
> >> many cobwebbed boxes piled on a table where Harry was clearly
> >> supposed to sit; they had an aura of tedious, hard and pointless
> >> work about them.
> >> --
> >> Chris
> >
> >
> >Chapter & verse.....impressive!
>
> All books, with only minor scanning errors, as searchable .doc or .pdf at:
>
> http://www.geocities.jp/jdsigu12/
>
> The password to open the zip files is:
>
> Slughorn
>
> (Capitalizing matters)
> --
> Chris

Sorry, I think I hit the wrong reply button...But anyway, thanks for
the sight. I didn't know about that one.

Re: I really hate convenient plot details [message #238196 ]

Di, 14 März 2006 20:09

wadkin2000

Green-Eyed Chris wrote:
> In article <1142353231.667909.155210 [at] i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> wadkin2000 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >Green-Eyed Chris wrote:
> >> In article <1eBRf.5$1w5.0 [at] newsfe13.phx>, "Here in Minnesota"
> >> <neverwillicheckthis [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >>> Magic_mom wrote:
> >> >> <snip>
> >> >
> >> >>> I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but in reading these
> >> >>> posts, does anyone else think how terribly coincidental that it was
> >> >>> Harry who received Snape's old potions book?
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Not really; let's assume that Snape had a small stack of old potions book
> >> >with his old copy on top [we would assume that if he kept his old copy w=
> >ith
> >> >the other copies that he would keep it on top for easy reference if he e=
> >ver
> >> >want to check an old note].
> >> >
> >> >Now Slughorn grabbed the top two books for Harry and Ron to use until th=
> >ey
> >> >got there new books... what are the chances of Harry getting Snapes book=
> >? 50
> >> >percent. What are the chances that Harry OR Ron would get Snapes book? 1=
> >00
> >> >percent.
> >> >
> >> >This happened to me when I moved to a different math class a couple week=
> >s in
> >> >and got a teachers edition.
> >> >
> >> >Ken
> >> >
> >> >One might say that Snape would have been sure to remove the book after
> >> >getting the new position... Snape got his dream job at the last second
> >> >before school started [Slughorn was found late]... I wouldn't be surpris=
> >ed
> >> >if Snape would have forgotten his graying underwear moving to the DADA
> >> >office.
> >>
> >> HBP, Ch. 24:
> >> =BBAh, Potter,=AB said Snape, when Harry had knocked on his door
> >> and entered the unpleasantly familiar office that Snape, despite
> >> teaching floors above now, had not vacated; it was as dimly lit
> >> as ever and the same slimy dead objects were suspended in
> >> coloured potions all around the walls. Ominously, there were
> >> many cobwebbed boxes piled on a table where Harry was clearly
> >> supposed to sit; they had an aura of tedious, hard and pointless
> >> work about them.
> >> --
> >> Chris
> >
> >
> >Chapter & verse.....impressive!
>
> All books, with only minor scanning errors, as searchable .doc or .pdf at:
>
> http://www.geocities.jp/jdsigu12/
>
> The password to open the zip files is:
>
> Slughorn
>
> (Capitalizing matters)
> --
> Chris

Sorry, I think I used the wrong reply button...but anyway, thanks for
the site information. I didn't know about that one.

Re: I really hate convenient plot details [message #238202 ]

Di, 14 März 2006 22:01

Ken

Green-Eyed Chris wrote:
> In article <1eBRf.5$1w5.0 [at] newsfe13.phx>, "Here in Minnesota"
> <neverwillicheckthis [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Magic_mom wrote:
>>> <snip>
>>
>>>> I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but in reading
>>>> these posts, does anyone else think how terribly coincidental that
>>>> it was Harry who received Snape's old potions book?
>>>
>>
>> Not really; let's assume that Snape had a small stack of old potions
>> book with his old copy on top [we would assume that if he kept his
>> old copy with the other copies that he would keep it on top for easy
>> reference if he ever want to check an old note].
>>
>> Now Slughorn grabbed the top two books for Harry and Ron to use
>> until they got there new books... what are the chances of Harry
>> getting Snapes book? 50 percent. What are the chances that Harry OR
>> Ron would get Snapes book? 100 percent.
>>
>> This happened to me when I moved to a different math class a couple
>> weeks in and got a teachers edition.
>>
>> Ken
>>
>> One might say that Snape would have been sure to remove the book
>> after getting the new position... Snape got his dream job at the
>> last second before school started [Slughorn was found late]... I
>> wouldn't be surprised if Snape would have forgotten his graying
>> underwear moving to the DADA office.
>
> HBP, Ch. 24:
> »Ah, Potter,« said Snape, when Harry had knocked on his door
> and entered the unpleasantly familiar office that Snape, despite
> teaching floors above now, had not vacated; it was as dimly lit
> as ever and the same slimy dead objects were suspended in
> coloured potions all around the walls. Ominously, there were
> many cobwebbed boxes piled on a table where Harry was clearly
> supposed to sit; they had an aura of tedious, hard and pointless
> work about them.

cool... I couldn't remember if he moved offices... this makes it even MORE
likely he wouldn't bother moving his stack of used books.

Re: I really hate convenient plot details [message #238206 ]

Di, 14 März 2006 22:43

cwlNOSPAM

In article <abGRf.6$1w5.5 [at] newsfe13.phx>, "Here in Minnesota"
<neverwillicheckthis [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

>Green-Eyed Chris wrote:
>> In article <1eBRf.5$1w5.0 [at] newsfe13.phx>, "Here in Minnesota"
>> <neverwillicheckthis [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Magic_mom wrote:
>>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>>> I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but in reading
>>>>> these posts, does anyone else think how terribly coincidental that
>>>>> it was Harry who received Snape's old potions book?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not really; let's assume that Snape had a small stack of old potions
>>> book with his old copy on top [we would assume that if he kept his
>>> old copy with the other copies that he would keep it on top for easy
>>> reference if he ever want to check an old note].
>>>
>>> Now Slughorn grabbed the top two books for Harry and Ron to use
>>> until they got there new books... what are the chances of Harry
>>> getting Snapes book? 50 percent. What are the chances that Harry OR
>>> Ron would get Snapes book? 100 percent.
>>>
>>> This happened to me when I moved to a different math class a couple
>>> weeks in and got a teachers edition.
>>>
>>> Ken
>>>
>>> One might say that Snape would have been sure to remove the book
>>> after getting the new position... Snape got his dream job at the
>>> last second before school started [Slughorn was found late]... I
>>> wouldn't be surprised if Snape would have forgotten his graying
>>> underwear moving to the DADA office.
>>
>> HBP, Ch. 24:
>> »Ah, Potter,« said Snape, when Harry had knocked on his door
>> and entered the unpleasantly familiar office that Snape, despite
>> teaching floors above now, had not vacated; it was as dimly lit
>> as ever and the same slimy dead objects were suspended in
>> coloured potions all around the walls. Ominously, there were
>> many cobwebbed boxes piled on a table where Harry was clearly
>> supposed to sit; they had an aura of tedious, hard and pointless
>> work about them.
>
>cool... I couldn't remember if he moved offices... this makes it even MORE
>likely he wouldn't bother moving his stack of used books.

I really hate to have to be such "an insufferable know-it-all" (PoA, Ch.
9), but they were in the potions classroom. HBP, Ch. 9:

»I haven¹t got a book or scales or anything nor¹s Ron we
didn¹t realise we¹d be able to do the N.E.W.T. you see«
»Ah yes, Professor McGonagall did mention not to worry, my
dear boy, not to worry at all. You can use ingredients from the
store cupboard today, and I¹m sure we can lend you some
scales, and we¹ve got a small stock of old books here, they¹ll do
until you can write to Flourish and Blotts«
Slughorn strode over to a corner cupboard and after a
moment¹s foraging emerged with two very battered-looking
copies of Advanced Potion-Making by Libatius Borage, which he
gave to Harry and Ron along with two sets of tarnished scales.

But the question of whether Snape kept his spare graying underwear in his
office or in Spinner's End is still open. ;-)
--
Chris

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