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Fantasy » alt.fan.harry-potter » Gabon as Dumbledore in Goblet of Fire
Gabon as Dumbledore in Goblet of Fire [message #231549] Sa, 11 März 2006 10:06
pstaw57550  
I have watched Goblet of Fire several times since getting it this week
and I honestly think the most striking problem between the book and the
movie is Michael Gabon as Dumbledore.

The scene in the meeting room after Harry's name has appeared, Gabon
comes rushing in ready to throttle Harry for having cheated the Goblet.
He is angry and grabs Harry, jostling him about and pushing him into
the trophy's.

Dumbledore would have NEVER done that. Dumbledore knew good and well
that Harry couldnt have defeated his magic. He never lost his temper
with Harry until maybe the last book but at the time he was like and
injured animal knowing the end was near. Dumbledore never acted that
emotional and cranky. Gabon as Dumbledore is not the "grandfatherly"
type but a dodering old fool.

[BTW - I didnt care for the Fred & George scene either - they were
amused by their aging - they wouldnt have fought over it.]
Re: Gabon as Dumbledore in Goblet of Fire [message #231550 ] Sa, 11 März 2006 10:11
friesian  
pstaw57550 [at] aol.com wrote:
> I have watched Goblet of Fire several times since getting it this week
> and I honestly think the most striking problem between the book and the
> movie is Michael Gabon as Dumbledore.
>

I agree with you that the character was nothing like in the book. But I
saw an interview with Gambon, and he was talking about the character
and how things were described to him. He was told to make the character
like that. Losing his grip, not knowing what was going on, etc.

So, while the character was done poorly in terms of the book, the blame
should be on the writer and director. They are the ones that decided to
have Dumbledore portrayed differently, and they are responsible for how
it turned out.

It is unfair to blame Gambon when he was acting the part exactly as
they told him to.
Re: Gabon as Dumbledore in Goblet of Fire [message #231605 ] Sa, 11 März 2006 17:29
Magic_mom  
pstaw57550 [at] aol.com wrote:
> I have watched Goblet of Fire several times since getting it this week
> and I honestly think the most striking problem between the book and the
> movie is Michael Gabon as Dumbledore.
>
> The scene in the meeting room after Harry's name has appeared, Gabon
> comes rushing in ready to throttle Harry for having cheated the Goblet.
> He is angry and grabs Harry, jostling him about and pushing him into
> the trophy's.
>
> Dumbledore would have NEVER done that. Dumbledore knew good and well
> that Harry couldnt have defeated his magic. He never lost his temper
> with Harry until maybe the last book but at the time he was like and
> injured animal knowing the end was near. Dumbledore never acted that
> emotional and cranky. Gabon as Dumbledore is not the "grandfatherly"
> type but a dodering old fool.
>
> [BTW - I didnt care for the Fred & George scene either - they were
> amused by their aging - they wouldnt have fought over it.]

I think the general concensus was that Dumbledore possible seemed more
fearful and worried about what happened, rather than mad at Harry.

M_m
Re: Gabon as Dumbledore in Goblet of Fire [message #231610 ] Sa, 11 März 2006 17:34
drusilla  
Magic_mom escribió:
> pstaw57550 [at] aol.com wrote:
>> I have watched Goblet of Fire several times since getting it this week
>> and I honestly think the most striking problem between the book and the
>> movie is Michael Gabon as Dumbledore.
>>
>> The scene in the meeting room after Harry's name has appeared, Gabon
>> comes rushing in ready to throttle Harry for having cheated the Goblet.
>> He is angry and grabs Harry, jostling him about and pushing him into
>> the trophy's.
>>
>> Dumbledore would have NEVER done that. Dumbledore knew good and well
>> that Harry couldnt have defeated his magic. He never lost his temper
>> with Harry until maybe the last book but at the time he was like and
>> injured animal knowing the end was near. Dumbledore never acted that
>> emotional and cranky. Gabon as Dumbledore is not the "grandfatherly"
>> type but a dodering old fool.
>>
>> [BTW - I didnt care for the Fred & George scene either - they were
>> amused by their aging - they wouldnt have fought over it.]
>
> I think the general concensus was that Dumbledore possible seemed more
> fearful and worried about what happened, rather than mad at Harry.
>
I was shocked when I heard about the scene, but once I watched at the
theathre, it didn't seem as terrible as I've heard it'd be. He seemed a
little bit fearful, yet. But not as Harry.
Re: Gabon as Dumbledore in Goblet of Fire [message #231683 ] So, 12 März 2006 05:36
marli_0000  
I didn't like Gambon as Dumbledore in POA and I didn't like him any
better in GOF.


Line Most Likely to Be Cut from "Order of the Phoenix":

"Professor Umbridge, I cannot allow you to manhandle my students."

*****************
Chris Columbus was criticized for being too faithful to the books and
the critics all panned him for it. But Columbus knew how to bring a
book to the screen, having done at least a couple before he took on the
HP series (most notably "Mrs. Doubtfire" and "Bicentennial Man"). The
last two directors seem to have been too keen to put their own "stamp"
on the movies.

I don't know anything about the director of OOTP, except that he's
done British television. And the book is 700+ pages long. If the 5th
movie opens to rave critical reviews, well, Argus Filch said it best:


"My, my. We *are* in trouble."
Re: Gabon as Dumbledore in Goblet of Fire [message #231824 ] Mo, 13 März 2006 13:57
Greg Fuller  
On 11 Mar 2006 01:11:16 -0800, "friesian [at] zoocrewphoto.com"
<friesian [at] zoocrewphoto.com> wrote:

>
>pstaw57550 [at] aol.com wrote:
>> I have watched Goblet of Fire several times since getting it this week
>> and I honestly think the most striking problem between the book and the
>> movie is Michael Gabon as Dumbledore.
>>
>
>I agree with you that the character was nothing like in the book. But I
>saw an interview with Gambon, and he was talking about the character
>and how things were described to him. He was told to make the character
>like that. Losing his grip, not knowing what was going on, etc.
>
>So, while the character was done poorly in terms of the book, the blame
>should be on the writer and director. They are the ones that decided to
>have Dumbledore portrayed differently, and they are responsible for how
>it turned out.
>
>It is unfair to blame Gambon when he was acting the part exactly as
>they told him to.

Exactly. The problem is not the actor but a director who seems never
to have read the books and/or writers who read them but had no respect
for them, although perhaps the underlying problem is that JKR appears
to have stopped insisting that the movies remain true to the books.

Greg
Re: Gabon as Dumbledore in Goblet of Fire [message #231844 ] Mo, 13 März 2006 18:47
Joe Curwen  
In article <jgqa12lmur3safsmp72qeap9hbcv28og6c [at] 4ax.com>, Greg Fuller says...
>
>On 11 Mar 2006 01:11:16 -0800, "friesian [at] zoocrewphoto.com"
><friesian [at] zoocrewphoto.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>pstaw57550 [at] aol.com wrote:
>>> I have watched Goblet of Fire several times since getting it this week
>>> and I honestly think the most striking problem between the book and the
>>> movie is Michael Gabon as Dumbledore.
>>>
>>
>>I agree with you that the character was nothing like in the book. But I
>>saw an interview with Gambon, and he was talking about the character
>>and how things were described to him. He was told to make the character
>>like that. Losing his grip, not knowing what was going on, etc.
>>
>>So, while the character was done poorly in terms of the book, the blame
>>should be on the writer and director. They are the ones that decided to
>>have Dumbledore portrayed differently, and they are responsible for how
>>it turned out.
>>
>>It is unfair to blame Gambon when he was acting the part exactly as
>>they told him to.
>
>Exactly. The problem is not the actor but a director who seems never
>to have read the books and/or writers who read them but had no respect
>for them, although perhaps the underlying problem is that JKR appears
>to have stopped insisting that the movies remain true to the books.
>

Or, they (writer, director, actor) were told to do this by Rowling because it
makes the end of Book 6 (and the blind mistakes that lead up to it) much more
clear.

--
Joe
Re: Gabon as Dumbledore in Goblet of Fire [message #231845 ] Mo, 13 März 2006 19:09
wadkin2000  
Greg Fuller wrote:
> On 11 Mar 2006 01:11:16 -0800, "friesian [at] zoocrewphoto.com"
> <friesian [at] zoocrewphoto.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >pstaw57550 [at] aol.com wrote:
> >> I have watched Goblet of Fire several times since getting it this week
> >> and I honestly think the most striking problem between the book and the
> >> movie is Michael Gabon as Dumbledore.
> >>
> >
> >I agree with you that the character was nothing like in the book. But I
> >saw an interview with Gambon, and he was talking about the character
> >and how things were described to him. He was told to make the character
> >like that. Losing his grip, not knowing what was going on, etc.
> >
> >So, while the character was done poorly in terms of the book, the blame
> >should be on the writer and director. They are the ones that decided to
> >have Dumbledore portrayed differently, and they are responsible for how
> >it turned out.
> >
> >It is unfair to blame Gambon when he was acting the part exactly as
> >they told him to.
>
> Exactly. The problem is not the actor but a director who seems never
> to have read the books and/or writers who read them but had no respect
> for them, although perhaps the underlying problem is that JKR appears
> to have stopped insisting that the movies remain true to the books.
>
> Greg


I think I said in another post that David Yates' credentials as a
director pale in comparison to Columbus, Curaron, and Newell. Also,
another uneasy thought, is that there's a new screenwriter for OOTP,
Michael Goldenberg. Steve Kloves is back for HBP. Just keep your
fingers crossed!
Re: Gabon as Dumbledore in Goblet of Fire [message #231864 ] Mo, 13 März 2006 21:01
Fish Eye no Miko  
Joe Curwen wrote:

>Greg Fuller says...
>>
>> Exactly. The problem is not the actor but a director who seems
>> never to have read the books and/or writers who read them but
>> had no respect for them, although perhaps the underlying problem
>> is that JKR appears to have stopped insisting that the movies
>> remain true to the books.
>
> Or, they (writer, director, actor) were told to do this by Rowling
> because it makes the end of Book 6 (and the blind mistakes that
> lead up to it) much more clear.

I'd think it'd do just the opposite... When DD is weak and uncertain at
the end of HBP, we're supposed to realize there's something wrong with him.
If he's acted like that before, it wouldn't seem like such a big deal.

Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net
"If it weren't for the dozens of idiot drivers in front of you, you'd be
home by now."
-Rock station advertisement.
Re: Gabon as Dumbledore in Goblet of Fire [message #238128 ] Di, 14 März 2006 00:28
pooter  
Greg Fuller [gf14159 [at] hotmail.com] said
> On 11 Mar 2006 01:11:16 -0800, "friesian [at] zoocrewphoto.com"
> <friesian [at] zoocrewphoto.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >pstaw57550 [at] aol.com wrote:
> >> I have watched Goblet of Fire several times since getting it this week
> >> and I honestly think the most striking problem between the book and the
> >> movie is Michael Gabon as Dumbledore.
> >>
> >
> >I agree with you that the character was nothing like in the book. But I
> >saw an interview with Gambon, and he was talking about the character
> >and how things were described to him. He was told to make the character
> >like that. Losing his grip, not knowing what was going on, etc.
> >
> >So, while the character was done poorly in terms of the book, the blame
> >should be on the writer and director. They are the ones that decided to
> >have Dumbledore portrayed differently, and they are responsible for how
> >it turned out.
> >
> >It is unfair to blame Gambon when he was acting the part exactly as
> >they told him to.
>
> Exactly. The problem is not the actor but a director who seems never
> to have read the books and/or writers who read them but had no respect
> for them, although perhaps the underlying problem is that JKR appears
> to have stopped insisting that the movies remain true to the books.

I would imagine that it is out of JKR's hands.
Re: Gabon as Dumbledore in Goblet of Fire [message #238180 ] Di, 14 März 2006 14:10
cwlNOSPAM  
In article <kfkRf.496$PE.417 [at] fed1read05>, "Fish Eye no Miko"
<fisheye [at] deadmoon.circus> wrote:

>Joe Curwen wrote:
>
>>Greg Fuller says...
>>>
>>> Exactly. The problem is not the actor but a director who seems
>>> never to have read the books and/or writers who read them but
>>> had no respect for them, although perhaps the underlying problem
>>> is that JKR appears to have stopped insisting that the movies
>>> remain true to the books.
>>
>> Or, they (writer, director, actor) were told to do this by Rowling
>> because it makes the end of Book 6 (and the blind mistakes that
>> lead up to it) much more clear.
>
>I'd think it'd do just the opposite... When DD is weak and uncertain at
>the end of HBP, we're supposed to realize there's something wrong with him.
>If he's acted like that before, it wouldn't seem like such a big deal.

I really hope that the director and, presumably, Gambon, will be up to the
task when that scene is shot. Same goes for the editor.

Assuming that Book 7 will have been released by the time it is shot, I
wonder whether Rickman, who already KNOWS, will incorporate a little hint.
--
Chris
Re: Gabon as Dumbledore in Goblet of Fire [message #238187 ] Di, 14 März 2006 17:30
wadkin2000  
Green-Eyed Chris wrote:
> In article <kfkRf.496$PE.417 [at] fed1read05>, "Fish Eye no Miko"
> <fisheye [at] deadmoon.circus> wrote:
>
> >Joe Curwen wrote:
> >
> >>Greg Fuller says...
> >>>
> >>> Exactly. The problem is not the actor but a director who seems
> >>> never to have read the books and/or writers who read them but
> >>> had no respect for them, although perhaps the underlying problem
> >>> is that JKR appears to have stopped insisting that the movies
> >>> remain true to the books.
> >>
> >> Or, they (writer, director, actor) were told to do this by Rowling
> >> because it makes the end of Book 6 (and the blind mistakes that
> >> lead up to it) much more clear.
> >
> >I'd think it'd do just the opposite... When DD is weak and uncertain at
> >the end of HBP, we're supposed to realize there's something wrong with him.
> >If he's acted like that before, it wouldn't seem like such a big deal.
>
> I really hope that the director and, presumably, Gambon, will be up to the
> task when that scene is shot. Same goes for the editor.
>
> Assuming that Book 7 will have been released by the time it is shot, I
> wonder whether Rickman, who already KNOWS, will incorporate a little hint.
> --
> Chris


What's surprising is that Gambon is really a pretty good actor. I've
seen him in a few films: "Path to War" which was a made-for-tv movie in
2002 (he played US President Lyndon Johnson & was really great),
"Gosford Park" and "The Insider" (1999). I know that he hasn't read
the books and just takes it one scene at a time, but I would assume
that if the director, at least, has some idea of the character (I don't
know how well Mike Newell knows the whole Potterverse characters), he's
the one who in the end directs (pun intended!) the actor HOW to play
the scene and how to play the character.
Re: Gabon as Dumbledore in Goblet of Fire [message #238191 ] Di, 14 März 2006 18:16
Joe Curwen  
In article <kfkRf.496$PE.417 [at] fed1read05>, Fish Eye no Miko says...
>
>Joe Curwen wrote:
>
>>Greg Fuller says...
>>>
>>> Exactly. The problem is not the actor but a director who seems
>>> never to have read the books and/or writers who read them but
>>> had no respect for them, although perhaps the underlying problem
>>> is that JKR appears to have stopped insisting that the movies
>>> remain true to the books.
>>
>> Or, they (writer, director, actor) were told to do this by Rowling
>> because it makes the end of Book 6 (and the blind mistakes that
>> lead up to it) much more clear.
>
>I'd think it'd do just the opposite... When DD is weak and uncertain at
>the end of HBP, we're supposed to realize there's something wrong with him.
>If he's acted like that before, it wouldn't seem like such a big deal.
>
I'll have to add some spoiler space for Book 6...
















IMO, the book made it clear that he was weaker than we've previously seen
because of his advancing age (his burnt hand was attributed to "losing a step"
age-wise). In the end, his age, the potion, the mistakes he made all caught up
to him. It was sad to compare DD at the end with what he was previously.

But DD's biggest mistake, the one that lead to his death, had nothing to do with
age really. It was a colossal emotional blunder. From that perspective Gambon's
powerfully emotional performance fits with what happens later. He plays DD as
emotional and wrong, fearful and not trusting the people he should (Harry). The
GoF script was readied at the point where the ending of Book 6 was known so I'm
thinking that Book 6 informed the director's decision to have Gambon play DD
that way. (This assumes that the director was communicating with Rowling on
these things. I have no proof that he did, so all this is just guess work.)

--
Joe
Re: Gabon as Dumbledore in Goblet of Fire [message #238256 ] Mi, 15 März 2006 06:42
dicconf  
In article <MPG.1e801066279bb27698a668 [at] nntp.dsl.pipex.com>,
pooter <a [at] bff.com> wrote:
>Greg Fuller [gf14159 [at] hotmail.com] said
>> <friesian [at] zoocrewphoto.com> wrote:
<snip>
>> >I saw an interview with Gambon, and he was talking about the character
>> >and how things were described to him. He was told to make the character
>> >like that. Losing his grip, not knowing what was going on, etc.
<snip>
>> >It is unfair to blame Gambon when he was acting the part exactly as
>> >they told him to.
>>
>> Exactly. The problem is not the actor but a director who seems never
>> to have read the books and/or writers who read them but had no respect
>> for them, although perhaps the underlying problem is that JKR appears
>> to have stopped insisting that the movies remain true to the books.
>
>I would imagine that it is out of JKR's hands.

Precisely. JKR does not have creative control over the movies. The
astonishing part is that the movie makers have bothered to consult
with her _at all_, in order to avoid making changes that would be
impossible to make fit with her plans for the plot developments.
Anything they forget to ask about gets done, right or wrong,
and then it's sheer luck if they find out and change it before too
much money is spent to allow the change.

Putting Marvolo's name on the Riddle tombstone is only one example;
they were lucky that they found out before it was too late to avoid
an embarrassing "movie mistake".

=Tamar
Re: Gabon as Dumbledore in Goblet of Fire [message #238308 ] Mi, 15 März 2006 19:07
johnnyrb  
I couldn't agree more. Gambon definitely has his own interpretation of
the character -- but it's an interpretation that is not consistent with
the HP books. DD's character carries so much of the story that Gambon
simply brings down the POA and GOF movies. I certainly can't see him
taking on Voldemort at the end of OOTP. Let's see how that whole scene
is rewritten.

And how about the end of "The Half-Blood Prince"? Since the last two
movies have made Malfoy's character a scared brat, he's hardly someone
who is to be a Death-Eater.
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