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Fantasy » alt.fan.harry-potter » A few thoughts on GOF and HBP (spoilers)
A few thoughts on GOF and HBP (spoilers) [message #231216] Mi, 08 März 2006 18:51
Gillian White  
So I'm a bit behind the times, but last week I finally managed to get round
to reading 'Half Blood Prince', and last night we rented 'Goblet of Fire' on
DVD.

For me, both of these are the best so far in their respective mediums. HBP
was a fantastic book - well written, great story, well paced and a three box
of tissues ending :-). Rowling has obviously learned some lessons from OOTP,
which I thought was far too long and very slow in places. I'm not entirely
convinced that Snape has turned bad guy. Does anyone else think that when
Dumbledore pleads with Snape on the tower, he's pleading with him to kill
him, not to save him? Dumbledore has accepted that he's going to die, and
knows that having Snape on the other side during the coming showdown is
worth more than his single life.

It's been a while since I read OOTP, and that story didn't really gel with
me very well, so I don't remember all the details. On the matter of the
horcruxes - was or wasn't there a locket in the cabinet of Grimmaud Place
that Harry found while they were cleaning? Is this supposed to be one of the
horcruxes, and is it now in the hands of the guy who stole stuff from the
house (can't remember his name)?

As for the film of GOF, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Massive chunks of the book
were missing, but that's hardly surprising given how long it was, and my
husband did not enjoy it as much as me, saying it was too incoherent at
points for him to pick up on what was going on. The effects were top notch,
the cast are maturing nicely (although Daniel Radcliffe's acting has not
improved much), and the whole film had this wonderful whimsical tone that I
didn't see in the first three films. It's kinda hard to describe - maybe
it's because the actors now feel so at home in their roles.

I was disappointed that some scenes were missing (no Dursleys, nothing about
Crouch's house elf, no pep talk from Mrs. Weasley before the maze), but
others more than made up for it. I thought the best scene by far was right
at the end where Harry comes out of the maze with Cedric's body. That was
just superbly done - even by Daniel.

The one other thing which annoyed me slightly is the development of
Hermione's character. She's in danger of becoming a shrewish bore. It
doesn't come across quite so much in the books because you're only reading
it. In the films, you hear Emma Watson complaining and criticising and
crying, and it's beginning to get a bit tiring. She needs to chill out.

As for the actors playing the new characters, Gleason was FANTASTIC as
Moody. Why did I never have a teacher like that? :-). The girl playing Fleur
was blah, the guy playing Krum was suitably butch and fearsome looking and
the guy playing Cedric was absolutely perfect for the role. Not much of a
part for Gary Oldman or Alan Rickman, and Gambon still isn't as convincing
as Dumbledore as Richard Harris was.

Anyway. I'm off to watch the film again before I take the DVD back.

Gillian
Re: A few thoughts on GOF and HBP (spoilers) [message #231234 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 21:09
Magic_mom  
Well pick up your feet and prepare to clean your shoes because you've
sure stepped in it here saying you think HBP was so great, LOL.. most
here did not like it all that much, nor the GoF movie. Your hubby is
right, in my own personal opinion. I tend to think a movie should stand
on it's own in telling a story and this one just did not do it very
well. You talk about how well you enjoyed it yet then go on with much
criticism about it..? Basically the same we have all had.. it was just
too chopped up and did not tell the whole story very well, and
completely ruined some of the characters to the point that I wonder how
they are going to reconcile them in the rest of the movie versions. PoA
is still my favorite book so far, yet with the release of GoF, they are
now tied for my least favorite of the movies.

M_m
Re: A few thoughts on GOF and HBP (spoilers) [message #231239 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 21:17
Kish  
Magic_mom wrote:
> Well pick up your feet and prepare to clean your shoes because you've
> sure stepped in it here saying you think HBP was so great, LOL.. most
> here did not like it all that much,

Erm, wait wait wait.

The last anyone actually took a poll was Troels, not long after it came
out. It was in second place then (second only to Prisoner of Azkaban).
"Most here didn't like it" is a statement I doubt you can support.
Re: A few thoughts on GOF and HBP (spoilers) [message #231249 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 23:14
Magic_mom  
Kish wrote:
> Magic_mom wrote:
> > Well pick up your feet and prepare to clean your shoes because you've
> > sure stepped in it here saying you think HBP was so great, LOL.. most
> > here did not like it all that much,
>
> Erm, wait wait wait.
>
> The last anyone actually took a poll was Troels, not long after it came
> out. It was in second place then (second only to Prisoner of Azkaban).
> "Most here didn't like it" is a statement I doubt you can support.

Sorry.. then I missed that particular poll. I guess all that sticks
with me about it here is a certain persons' rantings that Ms. Rowling
didn't even write it, lol.

M_m
Re: A few thoughts on GOF and HBP (spoilers) [message #231250 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 23:22
Kish  
Magic_mom wrote:
> Kish wrote:
>
>>Magic_mom wrote:
>>
>>>Well pick up your feet and prepare to clean your shoes because you've
>>>sure stepped in it here saying you think HBP was so great, LOL.. most
>>>here did not like it all that much,
>>
>>Erm, wait wait wait.
>>
>>The last anyone actually took a poll was Troels, not long after it came
>>out. It was in second place then (second only to Prisoner of Azkaban).
>> "Most here didn't like it" is a statement I doubt you can support.
>
>
> Sorry.. then I missed that particular poll. I guess all that sticks
> with me about it here is a certain persons' rantings that Ms. Rowling
> didn't even write it, lol.

*laughs* As I commented once when he called it a "universally
acknowledged debacle," that is true for the definition of "universe," "a
spheroid region one hundred eight meters in diameter with David Sueme in
it." But he doesn't represent any sort of majority, however much he
might wish otherwise.
Re: A few thoughts on GOF and HBP (spoilers) [message #231254 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 23:31
Brian  
Kish wrote:
> *laughs* As I commented once when he called it a "universally
> acknowledged debacle," that is true for the definition of "universe," "a
> spheroid region one hundred eight meters in diameter with David Sueme in
> it." But he doesn't represent any sort of majority, however much he
> might wish otherwise.

What's with the one hundred eight? That's not how big his head is, is
it? 'Cause mine's that big, too. :)

Actually, I quite liked Half-Blood Prince. But I approach the series
chiefly as a kind of extended cosy mystery, so I'm not sure I have the
same kind of criteria that most here do.

--
Brian Tung <brian [at] isi.edu>
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
(Location of these pages soon to change. Stay tuned for updates.)
Re: A few thoughts on GOF and HBP (spoilers) [message #231272 ] Do, 09 März 2006 01:32
Magic_mom  
Kish wrote:
> Magic_mom wrote:
> > Kish wrote:
> >
> >>Magic_mom wrote:
> >>
> >>>Well pick up your feet and prepare to clean your shoes because you've
> >>>sure stepped in it here saying you think HBP was so great, LOL.. most
> >>>here did not like it all that much,
> >>
> >>Erm, wait wait wait.
> >>
> >>The last anyone actually took a poll was Troels, not long after it came
> >>out. It was in second place then (second only to Prisoner of Azkaban).
> >> "Most here didn't like it" is a statement I doubt you can support.
> >
> >
> > Sorry.. then I missed that particular poll. I guess all that sticks
> > with me about it here is a certain persons' rantings that Ms. Rowling
> > didn't even write it, lol.
>
> *laughs* As I commented once when he called it a "universally
> acknowledged debacle," that is true for the definition of "universe," "a
> spheroid region one hundred eight meters in diameter with David Sueme in
> it." But he doesn't represent any sort of majority, however much he
> might wish otherwise.


*hem hem* I mentioned no names.. in particular.. lol.. (trying hard to
maintain the proper level of my halo floating over my head)

M_m
Re: A few thoughts on GOF and HBP (spoilers) [message #231273 ] Do, 09 März 2006 01:42
wadkin2000  
Brian Tung wrote:
> Kish wrote:
> > *laughs* As I commented once when he called it a "universally
> > acknowledged debacle," that is true for the definition of "universe," "a
> > spheroid region one hundred eight meters in diameter with David Sueme in
> > it." But he doesn't represent any sort of majority, however much he
> > might wish otherwise.
>
> What's with the one hundred eight? That's not how big his head is, is
> it? 'Cause mine's that big, too. :)
>
> Actually, I quite liked Half-Blood Prince. But I approach the series
> chiefly as a kind of extended cosy mystery, so I'm not sure I have the
> same kind of criteria that most here do.
>
> --
> Brian Tung <brian [at] isi.edu>
> The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
> Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/



> The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
> My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
> (Location of these pages soon to change. Stay tuned for updates.)


IMO, I thought GOF was a fairly good movie...the effects were very good
and I liked the darker tone. As in POA, I felt that certain scenes
could have been shortened in order to include additional scenes from
the book. That being said, however, I did feel that the movie overall
was a "bullet point" movie and didn't convey the nuances from the book.
I only hope that OOTP redeems itself. IMO, that's a where you need to
explore the subtlety of the characters and their scenes together.
Re: A few thoughts on GOF and HBP (spoilers) [message #231288 ] Do, 09 März 2006 07:52
Kish  
Brian Tung wrote:
> Kish wrote:
>
>>*laughs* As I commented once when he called it a "universally
>>acknowledged debacle," that is true for the definition of "universe," "a
>>spheroid region one hundred eight meters in diameter with David Sueme in
>>it." But he doesn't represent any sort of majority, however much he
>>might wish otherwise.
>
>
> What's with the one hundred eight? That's not how big his head is, is
> it? 'Cause mine's that big, too. :)

It's a Star Trek reference. At one point, to make a test of the strange
things that have been happening, a character asks the computer to
describe the nature of the universe--a question the computer should be
unable to answer. The computer replies, "The universe is a spheroid
region one hundred eight meters in diameter."

Magic_mom wrote:

> *hem hem* I mentioned no names.. in particular.. lol.. (trying hard to
> maintain the proper level of my halo floating over my head)

Call him David Sueme. Fear of a name increases fear of the thing.

;-)
Re: A few thoughts on GOF and HBP (spoilers) [message #231306 ] Do, 09 März 2006 14:02
Silvia  
Hi, I see the "older attenders" here have preferred not to answer your
frequently debated questions.

I'll do, I'm not so tired yet :)


"Gillian White" <Gillian_White [at] nospampleasethanksmail.com> ha scritto nel
messaggio news:vQEPf.125770$B94.44088 [at] pd7tw3no...

<snip> I'm not entirely
> convinced that Snape has turned bad guy. Does anyone else think that when
> Dumbledore pleads with Snape on the tower, he's pleading with him to kill
> him, not to save him? Dumbledore has accepted that he's going to die, and
> knows that having Snape on the other side during the coming showdown is
> worth more than his single life.

Many people here think the same, many do not

>
> It's been a while since I read OOTP, and that story didn't really gel with
> me very well, so I don't remember all the details. On the matter of the
> horcruxes - was or wasn't there a locket in the cabinet of Grimmaud Place
> that Harry found while they were cleaning? Is this supposed to be one of
the
> horcruxes, and is it now in the hands of the guy who stole stuff from the
> house (can't remember his name)?

It could, most of all if you accept the widely accepted indeed theory
according to which R.A.B. is Regulus Arcturus Black, Sirius' brother (or
uncle, see the appropriate thread)

Bye
Silvia
Re: A few thoughts on GOF and HBP (spoilers) [message #231315 ] Do, 09 März 2006 16:41
drusilla  
Kish escribió:
> Brian Tung wrote:
>> Kish wrote:
>>
>>> *laughs* As I commented once when he called it a "universally
>>> acknowledged debacle," that is true for the definition of "universe,"
>>> "a spheroid region one hundred eight meters in diameter with David
>>> Sueme in it." But he doesn't represent any sort of majority, however
>>> much he might wish otherwise.
>>
>>
>> What's with the one hundred eight? That's not how big his head is, is
>> it? 'Cause mine's that big, too. :)
>
> It's a Star Trek reference. At one point, to make a test of the strange
> things that have been happening, a character asks the computer to
> describe the nature of the universe--a question the computer should be
> unable to answer. The computer replies, "The universe is a spheroid
> region one hundred eight meters in diameter."
>

The character is Beverly Crusher, when she got trapped inside one of her
boy's experiments :) Boy and his experiments... aren't they lovely?
Re: A few thoughts on GOF and HBP (spoilers) [message #231320 ] Do, 09 März 2006 17:03
wadkin2000  
drusilla wrote:
> Kish escribi=F3:
> > Brian Tung wrote:
> >> Kish wrote:
> >>
> >>> *laughs* As I commented once when he called it a "universally
> >>> acknowledged debacle," that is true for the definition of "universe,"
> >>> "a spheroid region one hundred eight meters in diameter with David
> >>> Sueme in it." But he doesn't represent any sort of majority, however
> >>> much he might wish otherwise.
> >>
> >>
> >> What's with the one hundred eight? That's not how big his head is, is
> >> it? 'Cause mine's that big, too. :)
> >
> > It's a Star Trek reference. At one point, to make a test of the strange
> > things that have been happening, a character asks the computer to
> > describe the nature of the universe--a question the computer should be
> > unable to answer. The computer replies, "The universe is a spheroid
> > region one hundred eight meters in diameter."
> >
>
> The character is Beverly Crusher, when she got trapped inside one of her
> boy's experiments :) Boy and his experiments... aren't they lovely?


The episode was called "Remember Me". I always thought Wesley was such
an idiot for doing that experiment!
Re: A few thoughts on GOF and HBP (spoilers) [message #231321 ] Do, 09 März 2006 17:01
GZICARD  
A few thoughts on GOF and HBP (spoilers)

Group: alt.fan.harry-potter Date: Wed, Mar 8, 2006, 5:51pm (EST+5) From:
Gillian_White [at] nospampleasethanksmail.com (Gillian=A0White)
So I'm a bit behind the times, but last week I finally managed to get
round to reading 'Half Blood Prince', and last night we rented 'Goblet
of Fire' on DVD.
For me, both of these are the best so far in their respective mediums.
HBP was a fantastic book - well written, great story, well paced and a
three box of tissues ending :-). Rowling has obviously learned some
lessons from OOTP, which I thought was far too long and very slow in
places. I'm not entirely convinced that Snape has turned bad guy. Does
anyone else think that when Dumbledore pleads with Snape on the tower,
he's pleading with him to kill him, not to save him? Dumbledore has
accepted that he's going to die, and knows that having Snape on the
other side during the coming showdown is worth more than his single
life.
It's been a while since I read OOTP, and that story didn't really gel
with me very well, so I don't remember all the details. On the matter of
the horcruxes - was or wasn't there a locket in the cabinet of Grimmaud
Place that Harry found while they were cleaning? Is this supposed to be
one of the horcruxes, and is it now in the hands of the guy who stole
stuff from the house (can't remember his name)?
Mundungus Fletcher =

As for the film of GOF, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Massive chunks of the
book were missing, but that's hardly surprising given how long it was,
and my husband did not enjoy it as much as me, saying it was too
incoherent at points for him to pick up on what was going on. The
effects were top notch, the cast are maturing nicely (although Daniel
Radcliffe's acting has not improved much), and the whole film had this
wonderful whimsical tone that I didn't see in the first three films.
It's kinda hard to describe - maybe it's because the actors now feel so
at home in their roles.
I was disappointed that some scenes were missing (no Dursleys, nothing
about Crouch's house elf, no pep talk from Mrs. Weasley before the
maze), but others more than made up for it. I thought the best scene by
far was right at the end where Harry comes out of the maze with Cedric's
body. That was just superbly done - even by Daniel.
The one other thing which annoyed me slightly is the development of
Hermione's character. She's in danger of becoming a shrewish bore. It
doesn't come across quite so much in the books because you're only
reading it. In the films, you hear Emma Watson complaining and
criticising and crying, and it's beginning to get a bit tiring. She
needs to chill out.
As for the actors playing the new characters, Gleason was FANTASTIC as
Moody. Why did I never have a teacher like that? :-). The girl playing
Fleur was blah, the guy playing Krum was suitably butch and fearsome
looking and the guy playing Cedric was absolutely perfect for the role.
Not much of a part for Gary Oldman or Alan Rickman, and Gambon still
isn't as convincing as Dumbledore as Richard Harris was.
Anyway. I'm off to watch the film again before I take the DVD back.
Gillian
Re: A few thoughts on GOF and HBP (spoilers) [message #231327 ] Do, 09 März 2006 18:49
Brian  
Kish wrote:
> It's a Star Trek reference. At one point, to make a test of the strange
> things that have been happening, a character asks the computer to
> describe the nature of the universe--a question the computer should be
> unable to answer. The computer replies, "The universe is a spheroid
> region one hundred eight meters in diameter."

TOS? Mark of Gideon? Or is it a later series?

--
Brian Tung <brian [at] isi.edu>
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
(Location of these pages soon to change. Stay tuned for updates.)
Re: A few thoughts on GOF and HBP (spoilers) [message #231331 ] Do, 09 März 2006 19:48
Kish  
Brian Tung wrote:
> Kish wrote:
>
>>It's a Star Trek reference. At one point, to make a test of the strange
>>things that have been happening, a character asks the computer to
>>describe the nature of the universe--a question the computer should be
>>unable to answer. The computer replies, "The universe is a spheroid
>>region one hundred eight meters in diameter."
>
>
> TOS? Mark of Gideon? Or is it a later series?

TNG, actually. I don't remember the title of the episode, though
Drusilla might.
Re: A few thoughts on GOF and HBP (spoilers) [message #231332 ] Do, 09 März 2006 20:08
drusilla  
wadkin2000 [at] yahoo.com escribió:
>
> drusilla wrote:
>> Kish escribió:
>>> Brian Tung wrote:
>>>> Kish wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> *laughs* As I commented once when he called it a "universally
>>>>> acknowledged debacle," that is true for the definition of "universe,"
>>>>> "a spheroid region one hundred eight meters in diameter with David
>>>>> Sueme in it." But he doesn't represent any sort of majority, however
>>>>> much he might wish otherwise.
>>>>
>>>> What's with the one hundred eight? That's not how big his head is, is
>>>> it? 'Cause mine's that big, too. :)
>>> It's a Star Trek reference. At one point, to make a test of the strange
>>> things that have been happening, a character asks the computer to
>>> describe the nature of the universe--a question the computer should be
>>> unable to answer. The computer replies, "The universe is a spheroid
>>> region one hundred eight meters in diameter."
>>>
>> The character is Beverly Crusher, when she got trapped inside one of her
>> boy's experiments :) Boy and his experiments... aren't they lovely?
>
>
> The episode was called "Remember Me". I always thought Wesley was such
> an idiot for doing that experiment!
>

The experiment in question was interesting. Yet, the problem was that he
couldn't control what he had done, risking the whole crew. Good episode,
though.
Re: A few thoughts on GOF and HBP (spoilers) [message #231334 ] Do, 09 März 2006 20:11
drusilla  
Kish escribió:
> Brian Tung wrote:
>> Kish wrote:
>>
>>> It's a Star Trek reference. At one point, to make a test of the
>>> strange things that have been happening, a character asks the
>>> computer to describe the nature of the universe--a question the
>>> computer should be unable to answer. The computer replies, "The
>>> universe is a spheroid region one hundred eight meters in diameter."
>>
>>
>> TOS? Mark of Gideon? Or is it a later series?
>
> TNG, actually. I don't remember the title of the episode, though
> Drusilla might.

Remember me, as it was post below. But the title I know, translated was
'Do you Remember me?' (Me recuerdas?)
Re: A few thoughts on GOF and HBP (spoilers) [message #231455 ] Fr, 10 März 2006 17:01
Greg Fuller  
On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 17:51:23 GMT, "Gillian White"
<Gillian_White [at] nospampleasethanksmail.com> wrote:

>So I'm a bit behind the times, but last week I finally managed to get round
>to reading 'Half Blood Prince', and last night we rented 'Goblet of Fire' on
>DVD.
>
>For me, both of these are the best so far in their respective mediums.

I just saw the GoF movie and must say I was very disappointed -- too
many over the top scenes, too many missing scenes, too many missing
characters, too many characters acting out of character, and above
all, too little charm. I thought the PoA movie jumped the tracks when
it changed the look and feel of Hogwarts established in the first two
movies, but it still had much to be said for it, including a marvelous
portrayal of Professor Lupin. GoF was just an incoherent train wreck
which did not leave me looking forward to the next movie.

Greg
Re: A few thoughts on GOF and HBP (spoilers) [message #231567 ] Sa, 11 März 2006 11:34
friesian  
Magic_mom wrote:
> Well pick up your feet and prepare to clean your shoes because you've
> sure stepped in it here saying you think HBP was so great, LOL.. most
> here did not like it all that much, nor the GoF movie.

Really?

Granted, I am not here every day, every month, but I spent a lot of
time here after the release of each, and while some people didn't think
it was their favorite, very few thought they were bad.

I saw several people say that they though HBP was their favorite book
of the series, including me. And while book 4 was not my favorite (one
of my least favorites, actually), I liked the movie the most of the 4
we have gotten. I can't wait to see book 6 on film.

Obviously, we pick apart everything. We are obsessed and need something
to do while we wait for the next book to come out. But I never got the
impression that *most* people disliked HBP and the GOF movie.

How did they rate in the survey that was floating around on here?
Re: A few thoughts on GOF and HBP (spoilers) [message #231568 ] Sa, 11 März 2006 11:36
friesian  
Magic_mom wrote:

> Sorry.. then I missed that particular poll. I guess all that sticks
> with me about it here is a certain persons' rantings that Ms. Rowling
> didn't even write it, lol.
>


He may have posted a million times, but his vote only counts once.
This isn't Washington where you can vote twice, or even if you are
dead.
Re: A few thoughts on GOF and HBP (spoilers) [message #231697 ] So, 12 März 2006 09:56
Toon  
On 11 Mar 2006 02:36:47 -0800, "friesian [at] zoocrewphoto.com"
<friesian [at] zoocrewphoto.com> wrote:

>
>Magic_mom wrote:
>
>> Sorry.. then I missed that particular poll. I guess all that sticks
>> with me about it here is a certain persons' rantings that Ms. Rowling
>> didn't even write it, lol.
>>
>
>
>He may have posted a million times, but his vote only counts once.
>This isn't Washington where you can vote twice, or even if you are
>dead.


good thing too. The dead always seem to vote Republican. And some
states require proof of death before a dead person can vote.
Re: A few thoughts on GOF and HBP (spoilers) [message #231727 ] So, 12 März 2006 16:19
wadkin2000  
Toon wrote:
> On 11 Mar 2006 02:36:47 -0800, "friesian [at] zoocrewphoto.com"
> <friesian [at] zoocrewphoto.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Magic_mom wrote:
> >
> >> Sorry.. then I missed that particular poll. I guess all that sticks
> >> with me about it here is a certain persons' rantings that Ms. Rowling
> >> didn't even write it, lol.
> >>
> >
> >
> >He may have posted a million times, but his vote only counts once.
> >This isn't Washington where you can vote twice, or even if you are
> >dead.
>
>
> good thing too. The dead always seem to vote Republican. And some
> states require proof of death before a dead person can vote.


LOL....so very true!
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