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Fantasy » alt.fan.harry-potter » A Theory about Dumbledore's Death
A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231152] Mi, 08 März 2006 04:34
Jonathan Rodriguez  
is it possible that Dumbledore died so that he could extend Harry's
protection from Voldemort by doing the same Ancient Magic his mother did?
just a tought that came to me while rereading the half blood prince..
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231159 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 05:28
Oly Ink  
But Dumbledore didn't give his own life to save Harry's...

"Jonathan Rodriguez" <xenexprime [at] verizon.net> wrote in message
news:thsPf.6575$452.5642 [at] trndny03...
> is it possible that Dumbledore died so that he could extend Harry's
> protection from Voldemort by doing the same Ancient Magic his mother did?
> just a tought that came to me while rereading the half blood prince..
>
>
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231160 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 05:34
Jonathan Rodriguez  
"Oly Ink" <oly_ink [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
news:9PCdnUsk8trCwJPZRVn-pA [at] comcast.com...
> But Dumbledore didn't give his own life to save Harry's...
>

it depends on the way you see it, see Harry says it himself in the Book,
Dumbledore gave up his chance to defend himself by deciding to inmobilise
Harry, so in a way he gave his life to protect harry.
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231163 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 05:53
Oly Ink  
Point taken.

(crossing fingers this is true)

"Jonathan Rodriguez" <xenexprime [at] verizon.net> wrote in message
news:L9tPf.3233$zp2.26 [at] trndny01...
>
> "Oly Ink" <oly_ink [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:9PCdnUsk8trCwJPZRVn-pA [at] comcast.com...
> > But Dumbledore didn't give his own life to save Harry's...
> >
>
> it depends on the way you see it, see Harry says it himself in the Book,
> Dumbledore gave up his chance to defend himself by deciding to inmobilise
> Harry, so in a way he gave his life to protect harry.
>
>
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231166 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 05:54
Fish Eye no Miko  
Jonathan Rodriguez wrote:

> "Oly Ink" <oly_ink [at] comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> But Dumbledore didn't give his own life to save Harry's...
>
> it depends on the way you see it, see Harry says it himself in the Book,
> Dumbledore gave up his chance to defend himself
> by deciding to inmobilise Harry, so in a way he gave his life to
> protect harry.

And we also know the DE's wouldn't kill Harry even if they knew he was
there.

Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net
"If it weren't for the dozens of idiot drivers in front of you, you'd be
home by now."
-Rock station advertisement.
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231172 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 07:00
TakenEvent  
"Jonathan Rodriguez" <xenexprime [at] verizon.net> wrote in message
news:L9tPf.3233$zp2.26 [at] trndny01...
>
> "Oly Ink" <oly_ink [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:9PCdnUsk8trCwJPZRVn-pA [at] comcast.com...
> > But Dumbledore didn't give his own life to save Harry's...
> >
>
> it depends on the way you see it, see Harry says it himself in the Book,
> Dumbledore gave up his chance to defend himself by deciding to inmobilise
> Harry, so in a way he gave his life to protect harry.
>

If Dumbledore had dispatched whoever was attacking, there would have been no
need to "save" Harry. Also, Dumbledore would have known that his spell
would wear off if he died, and Harry would end up joining the fight anyway -
which is what happened. So he didn't die to save Harry. He had no
intention of dying.
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231175 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 07:44
Toon  
On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 03:34:49 GMT, "Jonathan Rodriguez"
<xenexprime [at] verizon.net> wrote:

>is it possible that Dumbledore died so that he could extend Harry's
>protection from Voldemort by doing the same Ancient Magic his mother did?
>just a tought that came to me while rereading the half blood prince..
>

So, he sacrificed out of love, after being given a choice, to protect
Harry?
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231176 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 07:45
Toon  
On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 04:34:51 GMT, "Jonathan Rodriguez"
<xenexprime [at] verizon.net> wrote:

>
>"Oly Ink" <oly_ink [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:9PCdnUsk8trCwJPZRVn-pA [at] comcast.com...
>> But Dumbledore didn't give his own life to save Harry's...
>>
>
>it depends on the way you see it, see Harry says it himself in the Book,
>Dumbledore gave up his chance to defend himself by deciding to inmobilise
>Harry, so in a way he gave his life to protect harry.
>

But he didn't know he'd die. he as still trying to save Draco. Lily
knew full well she was going to die if she stayed, and that wasn't
about to do squat for Harry.
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231179 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 07:55
Jonathan Rodriguez  
"TakenEvent" <lightbulbsnickety [at] chartermi.net> wrote in message
news:eouPf.2043$Wu1.1971 [at] fe05.lga...
>
> "Jonathan Rodriguez" <xenexprime [at] verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:L9tPf.3233$zp2.26 [at] trndny01...
>>
>> "Oly Ink" <oly_ink [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:9PCdnUsk8trCwJPZRVn-pA [at] comcast.com...
>> > But Dumbledore didn't give his own life to save Harry's...
>> >
>>
>> it depends on the way you see it, see Harry says it himself in the Book,
>> Dumbledore gave up his chance to defend himself by deciding to inmobilise
>> Harry, so in a way he gave his life to protect harry.
>>
>
> If Dumbledore had dispatched whoever was attacking, there would have been
> no
> need to "save" Harry. Also, Dumbledore would have known that his spell
> would wear off if he died, and Harry would end up joining the fight
> anyway -
> which is what happened. So he didn't die to save Harry. He had no
> intention of dying.
>
>
>

You are Using your Own Theory which Implies Dumbledore didn't know he was
going to die but as far as I know we don't know for sure if he knew he was
going to die or not or may I remind you that before going anywhere he did
tell harry that no matter what, even if Dumbledore was about to die Harry
was not to take off his cloak, which it could be taken as a way that
Dumbledore knew he might actually die, my point was to trow the theory out
there and discuss if it may be in any way possible and so far I think it
could be but you do have a point abotu the spell wearing off I wil have to
think about this :)
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231206 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 16:45
tbarry22  
Toon wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 03:34:49 GMT, "Jonathan Rodriguez"
> <xenexprime [at] verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >is it possible that Dumbledore died so that he could extend Harry's
> >protection from Voldemort by doing the same Ancient Magic his mother did?
> >just a tought that came to me while rereading the half blood prince..
> >
>
> So, he sacrificed out of love, after being given a choice, to protect
> Harry?

Dumbledore didn't make a sacrifice though. He was always going to die.
That was the whole reason the Death Eaters were there, to kill
Dumbledore. Lily was giving a choice. But she chose to die.
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231208 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 16:48
wadkin2000  
Jonathan Rodriguez wrote:
> "TakenEvent" <lightbulbsnickety [at] chartermi.net> wrote in message
> news:eouPf.2043$Wu1.1971 [at] fe05.lga...
> >
> > "Jonathan Rodriguez" <xenexprime [at] verizon.net> wrote in message
> > news:L9tPf.3233$zp2.26 [at] trndny01...
> >>
> >> "Oly Ink" <oly_ink [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
> >> news:9PCdnUsk8trCwJPZRVn-pA [at] comcast.com...
> >> > But Dumbledore didn't give his own life to save Harry's...
> >> >
> >>
> >> it depends on the way you see it, see Harry says it himself in the Book,
> >> Dumbledore gave up his chance to defend himself by deciding to inmobilise
> >> Harry, so in a way he gave his life to protect harry.
> >>
> >
> > If Dumbledore had dispatched whoever was attacking, there would have been
> > no
> > need to "save" Harry. Also, Dumbledore would have known that his spell
> > would wear off if he died, and Harry would end up joining the fight
> > anyway -
> > which is what happened. So he didn't die to save Harry. He had no
> > intention of dying.
> >
> >
> >
>
> You are Using your Own Theory which Implies Dumbledore didn't know he was
> going to die but as far as I know we don't know for sure if he knew he was
> going to die or not or may I remind you that before going anywhere he did
> tell harry that no matter what, even if Dumbledore was about to die Harry
> was not to take off his cloak, which it could be taken as a way that
> Dumbledore knew he might actually die, my point was to trow the theory out
> there and discuss if it may be in any way possible and so far I think it
> could be but you do have a point abotu the spell wearing off I wil have to
> think about this :)


The only reason Harry was afforded the ancient magic protection when
his mother sacrificed her life for his was that she was given a choice
to live or die and she wasn't aware that her choice would invoke the
protection.
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231213 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 17:29
Steven Sousa  
tbarry22 [at] yahoo.com wrote:

> Dumbledore didn't make a sacrifice though. He was always going to die.
> That was the whole reason the Death Eaters were there, to kill
> Dumbledore. Lily was giving a choice. But she chose to die.

Dumbledore let them kill him, though. When Draco first came in, rather
than defend himself he froze Harry. Had he wished to, he could have
disarmed Draco easily and probably taken down all the Death Eaters himself.

No, it's clear that, if he really did die, he did so of his own free
choice. That's why I don't believe he's really dead, as he had other
options which would have accomplished the same end without his death.
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231215 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 18:19
tbarry22  
Steven Sousa wrote:
> tbarry22 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > Dumbledore didn't make a sacrifice though. He was always going to die.
> > That was the whole reason the Death Eaters were there, to kill
> > Dumbledore. Lily was giving a choice. But she chose to die.
>
> Dumbledore let them kill him, though. When Draco first came in, rather
> than defend himself he froze Harry. Had he wished to, he could have
> disarmed Draco easily and probably taken down all the Death Eaters himself.
>
> No, it's clear that, if he really did die, he did so of his own free
> choice. That's why I don't believe he's really dead, as he had other
> options which would have accomplished the same end without his death.

You're missing the point. Intent is the factor on whether or not the
ancient magic will invoke itself. Harry was in no danger of being
killed at the moment. And even if he were a target of death,the plot
was to kill Dumbledore. Whether or not he allowed it to happen is
irrelevant. He wasn't given a choice to either live or die. Whether
or not he would have been killed is not relevant. The fact is he was
marked by Voldemort and the Death Eaters. He wasn't told he could
live. His choice was not to fight it. If he fought, would he have
lived? Most likely...even a weak Dumbledore is a strong Dumbledore.
But his choice wasn't or not he could could walk away alive. His
choice was whether or not to fight.

I still don't understand why people would think that Dumbledore would
let anyone kill him. While it is tradition in these stories that the
hero needs to go it alone, I have a hard time believing that Dumbledore
would not want to help Harry up until the very end.
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231217 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 18:51
Brian  
> I still don't understand why people would think that Dumbledore would
> let anyone kill him. While it is tradition in these stories that the
> hero needs to go it alone, I have a hard time believing that Dumbledore
> would not want to help Harry up until the very end.

One possibility is that surviving would have, for some reason, hurt
Harry more than dying. No, I don't have a compelling reason why that
would be, but that avenue can't easily be dismissed.

--
Brian Tung <brian [at] isi.edu>
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
(Location of these pages soon to change. Stay tuned for updates.)
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231231 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 21:09
TakenEvent  
"Jonathan Rodriguez" <xenexprime [at] verizon.net> wrote in message
news:_dvPf.5519$ci1.4227 [at] trndny08...
>
> "TakenEvent" <lightbulbsnickety [at] chartermi.net> wrote in message
> news:eouPf.2043$Wu1.1971 [at] fe05.lga...
> >
> > "Jonathan Rodriguez" <xenexprime [at] verizon.net> wrote in message
> > news:L9tPf.3233$zp2.26 [at] trndny01...
> >>
> >> "Oly Ink" <oly_ink [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
> >> news:9PCdnUsk8trCwJPZRVn-pA [at] comcast.com...
> >> > But Dumbledore didn't give his own life to save Harry's...
> >> >
> >>
> >> it depends on the way you see it, see Harry says it himself in the
Book,
> >> Dumbledore gave up his chance to defend himself by deciding to
inmobilise
> >> Harry, so in a way he gave his life to protect harry.
> >>
> >
> > If Dumbledore had dispatched whoever was attacking, there would have
been
> > no
> > need to "save" Harry. Also, Dumbledore would have known that his spell
> > would wear off if he died, and Harry would end up joining the fight
> > anyway -
> > which is what happened. So he didn't die to save Harry. He had no
> > intention of dying.
> >
> >
> >
>
> You are Using your Own Theory which Implies Dumbledore didn't know he was
> going to die but as far as I know we don't know for sure if he knew he was
> going to die or not or may I remind you that before going anywhere he did
> tell harry that no matter what, even if Dumbledore was about to die Harry
> was not to take off his cloak, which it could be taken as a way that
> Dumbledore knew he might actually die, my point was to trow the theory out
> there and discuss if it may be in any way possible and so far I think it
> could be but you do have a point abotu the spell wearing off I wil have to
> think about this :)
>

I guess my point, Sentence Boy, was that freezing Harry served no purpose if
DD knew DD was going to die. DD may have known he was dying, but surely if
he knew the manner of his death beforehand, he wouldn't have kept Harry with
him at that point. As for DD's warning, he was referring to the Horcrux
Hunt. DD wouldn't have marched a student right into a bunch of attacking
DE's on purpose -- cloak or no cloak.
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231233 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 21:11
TakenEvent  
<wadkin2000 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1141832895.539220.262730 [at] j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Jonathan Rodriguez wrote:
> > "TakenEvent" <lightbulbsnickety [at] chartermi.net> wrote in message
> > news:eouPf.2043$Wu1.1971 [at] fe05.lga...
> > >
> > > "Jonathan Rodriguez" <xenexprime [at] verizon.net> wrote in message
> > > news:L9tPf.3233$zp2.26 [at] trndny01...
> > >>
> > >> "Oly Ink" <oly_ink [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
> > >> news:9PCdnUsk8trCwJPZRVn-pA [at] comcast.com...
> > >> > But Dumbledore didn't give his own life to save Harry's...
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> it depends on the way you see it, see Harry says it himself in the
Book,
> > >> Dumbledore gave up his chance to defend himself by deciding to
inmobilise
> > >> Harry, so in a way he gave his life to protect harry.
> > >>
> > >
> > > If Dumbledore had dispatched whoever was attacking, there would have
been
> > > no
> > > need to "save" Harry. Also, Dumbledore would have known that his
spell
> > > would wear off if he died, and Harry would end up joining the fight
> > > anyway -
> > > which is what happened. So he didn't die to save Harry. He had no
> > > intention of dying.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > You are Using your Own Theory which Implies Dumbledore didn't know he
was
> > going to die but as far as I know we don't know for sure if he knew he
was
> > going to die or not or may I remind you that before going anywhere he
did
> > tell harry that no matter what, even if Dumbledore was about to die
Harry
> > was not to take off his cloak, which it could be taken as a way that
> > Dumbledore knew he might actually die, my point was to trow the theory
out
> > there and discuss if it may be in any way possible and so far I think it
> > could be but you do have a point abotu the spell wearing off I wil have
to
> > think about this :)
>
>
> The only reason Harry was afforded the ancient magic protection when
> his mother sacrificed her life for his was that she was given a choice
> to live or die and she wasn't aware that her choice would invoke the
> protection.

Has a lack of awareness of the protection been established as necessary to
make the magic happen?
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231237 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 21:16
TakenEvent  
"Steven Sousa" <ssousa [at] adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:-9-dneQVhbHsm5LZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d [at] adelphia.com...
> tbarry22 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > Dumbledore didn't make a sacrifice though. He was always going to die.
> > That was the whole reason the Death Eaters were there, to kill
> > Dumbledore. Lily was giving a choice. But she chose to die.
>
> Dumbledore let them kill him, though. When Draco first came in, rather
> than defend himself he froze Harry. Had he wished to, he could have
> disarmed Draco easily and probably taken down all the Death Eaters
himself.
>
> No, it's clear that, if he really did die, he did so of his own free
> choice. That's why I don't believe he's really dead, as he had other
> options which would have accomplished the same end without his death.


Dumbledore didn't know about the Death Eaters being in the castle until
after Draco had disarmed him. Remember, he sent Harry to fetch Snape - not
a wise thing to do if he knew about the DE's.

He only expected to be dealing with Draco at first, and he probably figured
he could talk Draco down before the DE's got to the tower. He made a fatal
mistake.
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231244 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 22:26
Steven Sousa  
TakenEvent wrote:

> I guess my point, Sentence Boy, was that freezing Harry served no purpose if
> DD knew DD was going to die. DD may have known he was dying, but surely if
> he knew the manner of his death beforehand, he wouldn't have kept Harry with
> him at that point. As for DD's warning, he was referring to the Horcrux
> Hunt. DD wouldn't have marched a student right into a bunch of attacking
> DE's on purpose -- cloak or no cloak.

Having Harry with him was the only way for he and Snape to make sure
that all of the good guys knew exactly what happened in the room.
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231245 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 22:33
Jonathan Rodriguez  
"TakenEvent" <lightbulbsnickety [at] chartermi.net> wrote in message
news:EPGPf.47$xR7.34 [at] fe03.lga...
>
> "Jonathan Rodriguez" <xenexprime [at] verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:_dvPf.5519$ci1.4227 [at] trndny08...
>>
>> "TakenEvent" <lightbulbsnickety [at] chartermi.net> wrote in message
>> news:eouPf.2043$Wu1.1971 [at] fe05.lga...
>> >
>> > "Jonathan Rodriguez" <xenexprime [at] verizon.net> wrote in message
>> > news:L9tPf.3233$zp2.26 [at] trndny01...
>> >>
>> >> "Oly Ink" <oly_ink [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
>> >> news:9PCdnUsk8trCwJPZRVn-pA [at] comcast.com...
>> >> > But Dumbledore didn't give his own life to save Harry's...
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> it depends on the way you see it, see Harry says it himself in the
> Book,
>> >> Dumbledore gave up his chance to defend himself by deciding to
> inmobilise
>> >> Harry, so in a way he gave his life to protect harry.
>> >>
>> >
>> > If Dumbledore had dispatched whoever was attacking, there would have
> been
>> > no
>> > need to "save" Harry. Also, Dumbledore would have known that his spell
>> > would wear off if he died, and Harry would end up joining the fight
>> > anyway -
>> > which is what happened. So he didn't die to save Harry. He had no
>> > intention of dying.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> You are Using your Own Theory which Implies Dumbledore didn't know he was
>> going to die but as far as I know we don't know for sure if he knew he
>> was
>> going to die or not or may I remind you that before going anywhere he did
>> tell harry that no matter what, even if Dumbledore was about to die Harry
>> was not to take off his cloak, which it could be taken as a way that
>> Dumbledore knew he might actually die, my point was to trow the theory
>> out
>> there and discuss if it may be in any way possible and so far I think it
>> could be but you do have a point abotu the spell wearing off I wil have
>> to
>> think about this :)
>>
>
> I guess my point, Sentence Boy, was that freezing Harry served no purpose
> if
> DD knew DD was going to die. DD may have known he was dying, but surely
> if
> he knew the manner of his death beforehand, he wouldn't have kept Harry
> with
> him at that point. As for DD's warning, he was referring to the Horcrux
> Hunt. DD wouldn't have marched a student right into a bunch of attacking
> DE's on purpose -- cloak or no cloak.
>
>

No need to Call me Sentence Boy or any names, if you can't discuss a theory
without being civilized then don't answer and go to the next message, as for
you saying he meant the warning only because of the Horcrux, that's your
opinion but nothing I have seen from the book or Jo herself in interviews
confirms that.
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231247 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 22:37
Jonathan Rodriguez  
"TakenEvent" <lightbulbsnickety [at] chartermi.net> wrote in message
news:lWGPf.49$xR7.47 [at] fe03.lga...
>
> "Steven Sousa" <ssousa [at] adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:-9-dneQVhbHsm5LZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d [at] adelphia.com...
>> tbarry22 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> > Dumbledore didn't make a sacrifice though. He was always going to die.
>> > That was the whole reason the Death Eaters were there, to kill
>> > Dumbledore. Lily was giving a choice. But she chose to die.
>>
>> Dumbledore let them kill him, though. When Draco first came in, rather
>> than defend himself he froze Harry. Had he wished to, he could have
>> disarmed Draco easily and probably taken down all the Death Eaters
> himself.
>>
>> No, it's clear that, if he really did die, he did so of his own free
>> choice. That's why I don't believe he's really dead, as he had other
>> options which would have accomplished the same end without his death.
>
>
> Dumbledore didn't know about the Death Eaters being in the castle until
> after Draco had disarmed him. Remember, he sent Harry to fetch Snape -
> not
> a wise thing to do if he knew about the DE's.
>
> He only expected to be dealing with Draco at first, and he probably
> figured
> he could talk Draco down before the DE's got to the tower. He made a
> fatal
> mistake.
>
>
>

You are Forgetting he trusted Snape and as far as we know Snape coul be a
bad guy or a good guy following orders, there are many plots and theorys
which could be true, that's the beuty of Jo's writing she leave us with so
many unclear and unanswered question so that she can follow many pats when
writing the next one.
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231253 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 23:26
Brian  
Jonathan Rodriguez wrote:
> No need to Call me Sentence Boy or any names, if you can't discuss a theory
> without being civilized then don't answer and go to the next message, as for
> you saying he meant the warning only because of the Horcrux, that's your
> opinion but nothing I have seen from the book or Jo herself in interviews
> confirms that.

If you want to share your ideas, it would be helpful if you mixed in an
occasional period, so they'd be easier to read. Otherwise, it might
look like it's not worth the effort.

--
Brian Tung <brian [at] isi.edu>
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
(Location of these pages soon to change. Stay tuned for updates.)
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231269 ] Do, 09 März 2006 01:16
wadkin2000  
TakenEvent wrote:
> <wadkin2000 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1141832895.539220.262730 [at] j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Jonathan Rodriguez wrote:
> > > "TakenEvent" <lightbulbsnickety [at] chartermi.net> wrote in message
> > > news:eouPf.2043$Wu1.1971 [at] fe05.lga...
> > > >
> > > > "Jonathan Rodriguez" <xenexprime [at] verizon.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:L9tPf.3233$zp2.26 [at] trndny01...
> > > >>
> > > >> "Oly Ink" <oly_ink [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
> > > >> news:9PCdnUsk8trCwJPZRVn-pA [at] comcast.com...
> > > >> > But Dumbledore didn't give his own life to save Harry's...
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >> it depends on the way you see it, see Harry says it himself in the
> Book,
> > > >> Dumbledore gave up his chance to defend himself by deciding to
> inmobilise
> > > >> Harry, so in a way he gave his life to protect harry.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > If Dumbledore had dispatched whoever was attacking, there would have
> been
> > > > no
> > > > need to "save" Harry. Also, Dumbledore would have known that his
> spell
> > > > would wear off if he died, and Harry would end up joining the fight
> > > > anyway -
> > > > which is what happened. So he didn't die to save Harry. He had no
> > > > intention of dying.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > You are Using your Own Theory which Implies Dumbledore didn't know he
> was
> > > going to die but as far as I know we don't know for sure if he knew he
> was
> > > going to die or not or may I remind you that before going anywhere he
> did
> > > tell harry that no matter what, even if Dumbledore was about to die
> Harry
> > > was not to take off his cloak, which it could be taken as a way that
> > > Dumbledore knew he might actually die, my point was to trow the theory
> out
> > > there and discuss if it may be in any way possible and so far I think it
> > > could be but you do have a point abotu the spell wearing off I wil have
> to
> > > think about this :)
> >
> >
> > The only reason Harry was afforded the ancient magic protection when
> > his mother sacrificed her life for his was that she was given a choice
> > to live or die and she wasn't aware that her choice would invoke the
> > protection.
>
> Has a lack of awareness of the protection been established as necessary to
> make the magic happen?

According to JKR, yes. She was asked in an interview with the Leaky
Cauldren if Lily knew about the possible effect of standing in front of
Harry. Jo said, "No, because I've tried to make clear in the series it
never happened before. No one ever survived before. And no one,
therefore, knew that could happen."
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231292 ] Do, 09 März 2006 10:18
dsueme  
Jonathan Rodriguez wrote:
> is it possible that Dumbledore died so that he could extend Harry's
> protection from Voldemort by doing the same Ancient Magic his mother did?

Dude, the ancient magic that defeated the evil wizard was "mother's
love". Dumbledore ain't Harry's mom. QED?

Are you trying to tell me that you have read all these books and think
that JKR would endorse Dumbledore the Kamikazi? If so, you are utterly
"tone deaf" as to the nuances of the moral view JKR is trying to
advance.

Dave
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231314 ] Do, 09 März 2006 16:37
drusilla  
David Sueme escribió:
> Jonathan Rodriguez wrote:
>> is it possible that Dumbledore died so that he could extend Harry's
>> protection from Voldemort by doing the same Ancient Magic his mother did?
>
> Dude, the ancient magic that defeated the evil wizard was "mother's
> love". Dumbledore ain't Harry's mom. QED?

Nope. The ancient magic is made when you die in order to save another.
Of curse, one might say that the mother's love is stronger, but we don't
know. Sirius died saving Harry - he could and should have stayed at GP -
, so, he had an option, not the same about DD.

> Are you trying to tell me that you have read all these books and think
> that JKR would endorse Dumbledore the Kamikazi? If so, you are utterly
> "tone deaf" as to the nuances of the moral view JKR is trying to
> advance.

Dave, I am starting to like you.
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231333 ] Do, 09 März 2006 20:09
Jonathan Rodriguez  
"David Sueme" <dsueme [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1141895894.841519.209280 [at] z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Jonathan Rodriguez wrote:
>> is it possible that Dumbledore died so that he could extend Harry's
>> protection from Voldemort by doing the same Ancient Magic his mother did?
>
> Dude, the ancient magic that defeated the evil wizard was "mother's
> love". Dumbledore ain't Harry's mom. QED?

It was never indicated as "Mothers Love" but as "Love"

> Are you trying to tell me that you have read all these books and think
> that JKR would endorse Dumbledore the Kamikazi? If so, you are utterly
> "tone deaf" as to the nuances of the moral view JKR is trying to
> advance.
>
> Dave
>

Like the Title says, this is a THEORY everyone has their own opinion and
ideas on what things that happen in the book are, if you are so brain dead
that you can't open your mind and discuss the possibilities it is not my
problem, just read and if you don't like it move along to the next tread.
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231391 ] Fr, 10 März 2006 03:48
Louis Epstein  
Jonathan Rodriguez <xenexprime [at] verizon.net> wrote:
:
: "Oly Ink" <oly_ink [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
: news:9PCdnUsk8trCwJPZRVn-pA [at] comcast.com...
:> But Dumbledore didn't give his own life to save Harry's...
:>
:
: it depends on the way you see it, see Harry says it himself in the Book,
: Dumbledore gave up his chance to defend himself by deciding to inmobilise
: Harry, so in a way he gave his life to protect harry.

Dumbledore immobilized Harry because Dumbledore wanted to make
absolutely certain of getting killed and Harry would easily have
saved him.

Perhaps the drinking of the poison in the cave was something done
to spare Harry,and the sacrifice only effective if Dumbledore did
not survive...but still far-fetched.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231392 ] Fr, 10 März 2006 03:50
Louis Epstein  
TakenEvent <lightbulbsnickety [at] chartermi.net> wrote:
:
: "Jonathan Rodriguez" <xenexprime [at] verizon.net> wrote in message
: news:L9tPf.3233$zp2.26 [at] trndny01...
:>
:> "Oly Ink" <oly_ink [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
:> news:9PCdnUsk8trCwJPZRVn-pA [at] comcast.com...
:> > But Dumbledore didn't give his own life to save Harry's...
:> >
:>
:> it depends on the way you see it, see Harry says it himself in the Book,
:> Dumbledore gave up his chance to defend himself by deciding to inmobilise
:> Harry, so in a way he gave his life to protect harry.
:>
:
: If Dumbledore had dispatched whoever was attacking, there would have been no
: need to "save" Harry. Also, Dumbledore would have known that his spell
: would wear off if he died, and Harry would end up joining the fight anyway -
: which is what happened. So he didn't die to save Harry. He had no
: intention of dying.

Determination to ensure his own death was the guiding goal
of everything Dumbledore did that night!!

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231394 ] Fr, 10 März 2006 03:54
Louis Epstein  
Steven Sousa <ssousa [at] adelphia.net> wrote:
: tbarry22 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
:
:> Dumbledore didn't make a sacrifice though. He was always going to die.
:> That was the whole reason the Death Eaters were there, to kill
:> Dumbledore. Lily was giving a choice. But she chose to die.
:
: Dumbledore let them kill him, though. When Draco first came in, rather
: than defend himself he froze Harry. Had he wished to, he could have
: disarmed Draco easily and probably taken down all the Death Eaters himself.

Had he not frozen Harry,Harry would easily have Stupefied the
unaware Draco and gotten Dumbledore to a safer place.

But Dumbledore would not let anything stand in the way of
his getting killed by Snape,which was his highest priority.

: No, it's clear that, if he really did die, he did so of his own free
: choice. That's why I don't believe he's really dead, as he had other
: options which would have accomplished the same end without his death.

He was really dead and really wanted to be.
I've known he was doomed since he said "death is the next great
adventure".

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231395 ] Fr, 10 März 2006 03:57
Louis Epstein  
TakenEvent <lightbulbsnickety [at] chartermi.net> wrote:
:
: "Steven Sousa" <ssousa [at] adelphia.net> wrote in message
: news:-9-dneQVhbHsm5LZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d [at] adelphia.com...
:> tbarry22 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
:>
:> > Dumbledore didn't make a sacrifice though. He was always going to die.
:> > That was the whole reason the Death Eaters were there, to kill
:> > Dumbledore. Lily was giving a choice. But she chose to die.
:>
:> Dumbledore let them kill him, though. When Draco first came in, rather
:> than defend himself he froze Harry. Had he wished to, he could have
:> disarmed Draco easily and probably taken down all the Death Eaters
: himself.
:>
:> No, it's clear that, if he really did die, he did so of his own free
:> choice. That's why I don't believe he's really dead, as he had other
:> options which would have accomplished the same end without his death.
:
:
: Dumbledore didn't know about the Death Eaters being in the castle until
: after Draco had disarmed him. Remember, he sent Harry to fetch Snape -
: not a wise thing to do if he knew about the DE's.

The Dark Mark visible over the Tower proved that DEs were present;
Dumbledore had to know.

Dumbledore wanted Snape to kill him,because he thought getting killed
by Snape would serve his purposes.

: He only expected to be dealing with Draco at first, and he probably figured
: he could talk Draco down before the DE's got to the tower. He made a fatal
: mistake.

His death was very deliberate;the trust in Snape may well
have been mistaken.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231396 ] Fr, 10 März 2006 03:58
Louis Epstein  
David Sueme <dsueme [at] comcast.net> wrote:
:
: Jonathan Rodriguez wrote:
:> is it possible that Dumbledore died so that he could extend Harry's
:> protection from Voldemort by doing the same Ancient Magic his mother did?
:
: Dude, the ancient magic that defeated the evil wizard was "mother's
: love". Dumbledore ain't Harry's mom. QED?
:
: Are you trying to tell me that you have read all these books and think
: that JKR would endorse Dumbledore the Kamikazi? If so, you are utterly
: "tone deaf" as to the nuances of the moral view JKR is trying to
: advance.

The insane embrace of mortality she is trying to advance
has been clear since the first book!!

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231399 ] Fr, 10 März 2006 04:30
Thomas Madura  
Louis Epstein wrote:

> Jonathan Rodriguez <xenexprime [at] verizon.net> wrote:
> :
> : "Oly Ink" <oly_ink [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
> : news:9PCdnUsk8trCwJPZRVn-pA [at] comcast.com...
> :> But Dumbledore didn't give his own life to save Harry's...
> :>
> :
> : it depends on the way you see it, see Harry says it himself in the Book,
> : Dumbledore gave up his chance to defend himself by deciding to inmobilise
> : Harry, so in a way he gave his life to protect harry.
>
> Dumbledore immobilized Harry because Dumbledore wanted to make
> absolutely certain of getting killed and Harry would easily have
> saved him.


No - Harry might not have easily saved Dumbledore. THe remainder of the
book makes it clear that Snape was quite powerful and able to defend
himself. In fact, the remainder of the book left the clear impression
that Harry is not ready for the final fight with Riddle and I believe
that Dumbledore gave his life in order to allow Harry to fight another day.

Yes - Dumbledore will have known Harry's destiny. THe only problem I
have with it is - with the possible exception of Barty Crouch JR as
Moody (A wild though to be sure) no one has really taken the time to
bring Harry up to that level. It is 6 books, and Harry has received very
little real training. (At least - nothing much more than every other
student) One would have thought that at least by the time Harry knew the
prophecy - that Dumbledore would have started teaching Harry himself.
After all - Dumbledore was the Wizard that Riddle feared. To me - this
is the biggest hole in the story - one that now seemingly has no one
left to solve it.

WHat that means is that there must be something else other than sheer
magic and magic knowledge and technique that will allow Harry to
"Vanquish" Riddle once and for all. I have no problem with the "love"
angle saving the baby Harry - but what "POWER" does Harry have(to
eliminate Riddle). It is clearly something he doesn't know about yet -
and seems to be something that no one else knows either.

I decided to go back to the books and the movies - using the MOVIES as a
guide as to what is important SO I can eliminate side stories (like Rita
Skeeter) and focus more on what remains rather than what is already
eliminated by non-appearance in the movies. There are also several
statements made that seemingly are too strong to ignore in the movies.
One - clearly - is the Statement by Dumbledore at the end of GOF movie
that indicates that the different people (From the other schools) will
need to work together to solve the problem. That at least means we will
see Krum and Fleur again.


>
> Perhaps the drinking of the poison in the cave was something done
> to spare Harry,and the sacrifice only effective if Dumbledore did
> not survive...but still far-fetched.
>
> -=-=-
> The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
> at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231401 ] Fr, 10 März 2006 04:40
chappy  
Louis Epstein wrote:
> Steven Sousa <ssousa [at] adelphia.net> wrote:
> : tbarry22 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> :
> :> Dumbledore didn't make a sacrifice though. He was always going to die.
> :> That was the whole reason the Death Eaters were there, to kill
> :> Dumbledore. Lily was giving a choice. But she chose to die.
> :
> : Dumbledore let them kill him, though. When Draco first came in, rather
> : than defend himself he froze Harry. Had he wished to, he could have
> : disarmed Draco easily and probably taken down all the Death Eaters himself.
>
> Had he not frozen Harry,Harry would easily have Stupefied the
> unaware Draco and gotten Dumbledore to a safer place.
>
> But Dumbledore would not let anything stand in the way of
> his getting killed by Snape,which was his highest priority.
Maybe Dumbledore wasn't to worried about Draco and immobilized Harry
because he wanted to talk Draco out of what he was about to do. Maybe
he wanted to try and get Draco to see the error of his ways and if
Draco knew Harry was watching he never would have backed down or put on
false bravado if Harry was there. Or maybe he was worried Harry would
have finished the job he started in the loo, if Harry thought Draco was
threatening DD, DA, or the order.

..
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231402 ] Fr, 10 März 2006 04:42
Thomas Madura  
Louis Epstein wrote:

> David Sueme <dsueme [at] comcast.net> wrote:
> :
> : Jonathan Rodriguez wrote:
> :> is it possible that Dumbledore died so that he could extend Harry's
> :> protection from Voldemort by doing the same Ancient Magic his mother did?
> :
> : Dude, the ancient magic that defeated the evil wizard was "mother's
> : love". Dumbledore ain't Harry's mom. QED?
> :
> : Are you trying to tell me that you have read all these books and think
> : that JKR would endorse Dumbledore the Kamikazi? If so, you are utterly
> : "tone deaf" as to the nuances of the moral view JKR is trying to
> : advance.
>
> The insane embrace of mortality she is trying to advance
> has been clear since the first book!!


Kamikazi is not the right word for what happened. It was clear from the
beginning that if Harry was to be the one to vanquish Riddle - it would
have to be when Dumbledore was not around - since DUmbledore would have
taken the lead in a fight. So - it was clear that somehow - Dumbledore
would have to be removed from the fight - and his death was about the
only way I think it could have been done.

That he trusted Snape completely is a question mark. Snape had to do
something to earn that trust - something FAR greater than anything we
have been told about till now. Something that allowed Dumbledore to step
aside and ignore all the nastiness - because he had clear confidence
based on whatever it was Snape did to convince him. That is One answer I
am looking for in the last book.

Another answer I need to see is why they failed to really train Harry
much beyond the other students. That directly connects with who knew the
prophecy.

If Harry has the "power" - I now look forward to what that power is and
this time it cannot just be "love". It must have something to do with
Harry's blood though.
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231411 ] Fr, 10 März 2006 09:43
Toon  
On 9 Mar 2006 01:18:14 -0800, "David Sueme" <dsueme [at] comcast.net>
wrote:

>
>Jonathan Rodriguez wrote:
>> is it possible that Dumbledore died so that he could extend Harry's
>> protection from Voldemort by doing the same Ancient Magic his mother did?
>
>Dude, the ancient magic that defeated the evil wizard was "mother's
>love". Dumbledore ain't Harry's mom. QED?

Any love would work. James could have done it too if he was there
instead, and he had the deal offered, and he refused it, and that
something extra occurred.
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231417 ] Fr, 10 März 2006 10:31
dsueme  
drusilla wrote:

I wrote:

> > Are you trying to tell me that you have read all these books and think
> > that JKR would endorse Dumbledore the Kamikazi? If so, you are utterly
> > "tone deaf" as to the nuances of the moral view JKR is trying to
> > advance.
>
> Dave, I am starting to like you.

Actually, I started to like you a while ago. You still say things that
I can't agree with sometimes, but then if you agreed with everything I
said you'd be a bore. You'd be right all the time, but still a bore!

Dave

BTW, did you pick your newsgroup name to reflect Buffy fandom?
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231418 ] Fr, 10 März 2006 10:38
dsueme  
Jonathan Rodriguez wrote:

> It was never indicated as "Mothers Love" but as "Love"

Hey idiot. Try the ' on you keyboard. It's right between the "r" and
the "s".


> Like the Title says, this is a THEORY everyone has their own opinion and
> ideas on what things that happen in the book are, if you are so brain dead
> that you can't open your mind and discuss the possibilities it is not my
> problem, just read and if you don't like it move along to the next tread.

Hey idiot: people who actually offer theories know that theories are
subject to examination, criticism, and possibly refutation. It's part
of the game.

You didn't really offer a theory. You floated a "trial baloon". It
was shot down. Trial again.

Dave
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231451 ] Fr, 10 März 2006 16:40
Brian  
David Sueme wrote:
> Hey idiot. Try the ' on you keyboard. It's right between the "r" and
> the "s".

Funny, on my keyboard, only the 'd' and 'e' are between the 'r' and the
's'.

--
Brian Tung <brian [at] isi.edu>
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
(Location of these pages soon to change. Stay tuned for updates.)
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231460 ] Fr, 10 März 2006 17:42
drusilla  
David Sueme escribió:
> drusilla wrote:
>
> I wrote:
>
>>> Are you trying to tell me that you have read all these books and think
>>> that JKR would endorse Dumbledore the Kamikazi? If so, you are utterly
>>> "tone deaf" as to the nuances of the moral view JKR is trying to
>>> advance.
>> Dave, I am starting to like you.
>
> Actually, I started to like you a while ago. You still say things that
> I can't agree with sometimes, but then if you agreed with everything I
> said you'd be a bore. You'd be right all the time, but still a bore!

I'll try to take that as an accomplishment... :S

> Dave
>
> BTW, did you pick your newsgroup name to reflect Buffy fandom?

because I like buffy a lot. In fact, a cousin and I discovered afh-p
together. I opened the account for her and I choose the name because I
was reading Buffy ino ther site. then she got bored and I changed the
password and use the account for me. Now I am lazy to change the nick.
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231510 ] Sa, 11 März 2006 00:55
TakenEvent  
"Jonathan Rodriguez" <xenexprime [at] verizon.net> wrote in message
news:E4IPf.19051$6h1.15560 [at] trndny09...
>
> "TakenEvent" <lightbulbsnickety [at] chartermi.net> wrote in message
> news:EPGPf.47$xR7.34 [at] fe03.lga...
> >
> > "Jonathan Rodriguez" <xenexprime [at] verizon.net> wrote in message
> > news:_dvPf.5519$ci1.4227 [at] trndny08...
> >>
> >> "TakenEvent" <lightbulbsnickety [at] chartermi.net> wrote in message
> >> news:eouPf.2043$Wu1.1971 [at] fe05.lga...
> >> >
> >> > "Jonathan Rodriguez" <xenexprime [at] verizon.net> wrote in message
> >> > news:L9tPf.3233$zp2.26 [at] trndny01...
> >> >>
> >> >> "Oly Ink" <oly_ink [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
> >> >> news:9PCdnUsk8trCwJPZRVn-pA [at] comcast.com...
> >> >> > But Dumbledore didn't give his own life to save Harry's...
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> it depends on the way you see it, see Harry says it himself in the
> > Book,
> >> >> Dumbledore gave up his chance to defend himself by deciding to
> > inmobilise
> >> >> Harry, so in a way he gave his life to protect harry.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > If Dumbledore had dispatched whoever was attacking, there would have
> > been
> >> > no
> >> > need to "save" Harry. Also, Dumbledore would have known that his
spell
> >> > would wear off if he died, and Harry would end up joining the fight
> >> > anyway -
> >> > which is what happened. So he didn't die to save Harry. He had no
> >> > intention of dying.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> You are Using your Own Theory which Implies Dumbledore didn't know he
was
> >> going to die but as far as I know we don't know for sure if he knew he
> >> was
> >> going to die or not or may I remind you that before going anywhere he
did
> >> tell harry that no matter what, even if Dumbledore was about to die
Harry
> >> was not to take off his cloak, which it could be taken as a way that
> >> Dumbledore knew he might actually die, my point was to trow the theory
> >> out
> >> there and discuss if it may be in any way possible and so far I think
it
> >> could be but you do have a point abotu the spell wearing off I wil have
> >> to
> >> think about this :)
> >>
> >
> > I guess my point, Sentence Boy, was that freezing Harry served no
purpose
> > if
> > DD knew DD was going to die. DD may have known he was dying, but surely
> > if
> > he knew the manner of his death beforehand, he wouldn't have kept Harry
> > with
> > him at that point. As for DD's warning, he was referring to the Horcrux
> > Hunt. DD wouldn't have marched a student right into a bunch of
attacking
> > DE's on purpose -- cloak or no cloak.
> >
> >
>
> No need to Call me Sentence Boy or any names, if you can't discuss a
theory
> without being civilized then don't answer and go to the next message, as
for
> you saying he meant the warning only because of the Horcrux, that's your
> opinion but nothing I have seen from the book or Jo herself in interviews
> confirms that.
>

I'm perfectly civil. There's nothing uncivil about noting that your entire
post comprised a single sentence. "Sentence Boy" is hardly insulting.
Basic punctuation makes your posts easier to read. It's a matter of making
things easier on those you wish to converse with, almost a matter of
etiquette.

I never said the warning was because of the Horcrux - it was for the journey
to get the Horcrux. DD died at Hogwarts after the trip. DD figured Harry
would be safe at the castle, hence he had no problem sending Harry to get
Snape alone.
Re: A Theory about Dumbledore's Death [message #231512 ] Sa, 11 März 2006 01:00
TakenEvent  
<wadkin2000 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1141863368.121877.161460 [at] j52g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
>
> TakenEvent wrote:
> > <wadkin2000 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:1141832895.539220.262730 [at] j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > >
> > > Jonathan Rodriguez wrote:
> > > > "TakenEvent" <lightbulbsnickety [at] chartermi.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:eouPf.2043$Wu1.1971 [at] fe05.lga...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Jonathan Rodriguez" <xenexprime [at] verizon.net> wrote in message
> > > > > news:L9tPf.3233$zp2.26 [at] trndny01...
> > > > >>
> > > > >> "Oly Ink" <oly_ink [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
> > > > >> news:9PCdnUsk8trCwJPZRVn-pA [at] comcast.com...
> > > > >> > But Dumbledore didn't give his own life to save Harry's...
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > > >> it depends on the way you see it, see Harry says it himself in
the
> > Book,
> > > > >> Dumbledore gave up his chance to defend himself by deciding to
> > inmobilise
> > > > >> Harry, so in a way he gave his life to protect harry.
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > If Dumbledore had dispatched whoever was attacking, there would
have
> > been
> > > > > no
> > > > > need to "save" Harry. Also, Dumbledore would have known that his
> > spell
> > > > > would wear off if he died, and Harry would end up joining the
fight
> > > > > anyway -
> > > > > which is what happened. So he didn't die to save Harry. He had
no
> > > > > intention of dying.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > You are Using your Own Theory which Implies Dumbledore didn't know
he
> > was
> > > > going to die but as far as I know we don't know for sure if he knew
he
> > was
> > > > going to die or not or may I remind you that before going anywhere
he
> > did
> > > > tell harry that no matter what, even if Dumbledore was about to die
> > Harry
> > > > was not to take off his cloak, which it could be taken as a way that
> > > > Dumbledore knew he might actually die, my point was to trow the
theory
> > out
> > > > there and discuss if it may be in any way possible and so far I
think it
> > > > could be but you do have a point abotu the spell wearing off I wil
have
> > to
> > > > think about this :)
> > >
> > >
> > > The only reason Harry was afforded the ancient magic protection when
> > > his mother sacrificed her life for his was that she was given a choice
> > > to live or die and she wasn't aware that her choice would invoke the
> > > protection.
> >
> > Has a lack of awareness of the protection been established as necessary
to
> > make the magic happen?
>
> According to JKR, yes. She was asked in an interview with the Leaky
> Cauldren if Lily knew about the possible effect of standing in front of
> Harry. Jo said, "No, because I've tried to make clear in the series it
> never happened before. No one ever survived before. And no one,
> therefore, knew that could happen."
>
>

Nowhere in that quote does JKR say that ignorance of the magical protection
is necessary for it to work. JKR is only stating that Lily didn't know it
would happen - she sacrificed herself out of love for her child. Are you
postulating that the same type of magical protection will never work again
now that everybody knows it can happen?
Vorheriges Thema:juice?
Nächstes Thema:Shouldn't Hermione be in Slytherin?
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