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Miscellaneous / Verschiedenes » alt.fan.james-bond » Toby Stephens defends Craig, criticises DAD...
Toby Stephens defends Craig, criticises DAD... [message #227665] Fr, 24 Februar 2006 11:51
phil.gerrard1  
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4744732.stm

Note the subtle change from 'a group of Bond fans' to 'some fans'.
Note also that if the best craignotbond can do is to get 10,000
signatures after all the free publicity they've had from major news
outlets from the BBC to AP, they're doing pretty poorly. It's an
insignificant number compared to what a lot of polls on that site pick
up *without* the free publicity they've had. There's also no way of
preventing people from making fraudulent multiple entries, so the true
figure is likely to be significantly lower than what's quoted. (I
wonder, for example, how many of scojo's nutjob aliases appear on that
list of 'signatures')

Anyway, even if there were 10,000 'fans' worldwide who were really
going to boycott the movie, EON could recoup their losses within a few
weeks by getting their catering department to switch to a cheaper brand
of coffee. To quote Elliot Carver, 'Pathetic'.

Best

Phil

(Absolutely sure that when EON started work on CR, just as when they
started work on FYEO, OHMSS, and TLD, they had already decided that
getting the series back on track was more important than losing what
amounts to a handful of audience members. Does anybody really think
they weren't expecting to get any flak after replacing the most
popular Bond since Connery with an unknown and perhaps left-field
choice? Get real. They simply decided they could live with the
inevitable whining and bitching, so anybody who thinks they're going
to slap their foreheads and say 'Good god, what have we done? Halt
production now and get Pierce back!' is in for a long, long wait.)
Re: Toby Stephens defends Craig, criticises DAD... [message #227666 ] Fr, 24 Februar 2006 11:59
phil.gerrard1  
Of course, my last message will probably have encouraged scojo to
scurry off to Petitions Online and add a couple of hundred more bogus
signatures...

Best

Phil
Re: Toby Stephens defends Craig, criticises DAD... [message #227671 ] Fr, 24 Februar 2006 15:44
Will Traynor  
"phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com" <phil.gerrard1 [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1140778316.299937.25120 [at] z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4744732.stm
>
> Note the subtle change from 'a group of Bond fans' to 'some fans'.
> Note also that if the best craignotbond can do is to get 10,000
> signatures after all the free publicity they've had from major news
> outlets from the BBC to AP, they're doing pretty poorly. It's an
> insignificant number compared to what a lot of polls on that site pick
> up *without* the free publicity they've had. There's also no way of
> preventing people from making fraudulent multiple entries, so the true
> figure is likely to be significantly lower than what's quoted. (I
> wonder, for example, how many of scojo's nutjob aliases appear on that
> list of 'signatures')
>
> Anyway, even if there were 10,000 'fans' worldwide who were really
> going to boycott the movie, EON could recoup their losses within a few
> weeks by getting their catering department to switch to a cheaper brand
> of coffee. To quote Elliot Carver, 'Pathetic'.
>
> Best
>
> Phil
>
> (Absolutely sure that when EON started work on CR, just as when they
> started work on FYEO, OHMSS, and TLD, they had already decided that
> getting the series back on track was more important than losing what
> amounts to a handful of audience members. Does anybody really think
> they weren't expecting to get any flak after replacing the most
> popular Bond since Connery with an unknown and perhaps left-field
> choice? Get real. They simply decided they could live with the
> inevitable whining and bitching, so anybody who thinks they're going
> to slap their foreheads and say 'Good god, what have we done? Halt
> production now and get Pierce back!' is in for a long, long wait.)
>

Well, I tend to agree with Stephens on DAD. As I've said before, I liked the
first half of the film, but the second half became MR all over again. It was
just too "out there" for my liking. But, like all Bond films, I find it
entertaining. BTW, my favorite scene in the film occurs when Brosnan dumps
the guy in the wheelchair on his ass in that clinic. That was straight out
of the Sean Connery handbook. Loved it !!!
Re: Toby Stephens defends Craig, criticises DAD... [message #227676 ] Fr, 24 Februar 2006 16:37
WQ  
phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com wrote:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4744732.stm
>
> Note the subtle change from 'a group of Bond fans' to 'some fans'.
> Note also that if the best craignotbond can do is to get 10,000
> signatures after all the free publicity they've had from major news
> outlets from the BBC to AP, they're doing pretty poorly. It's an
> insignificant number compared to what a lot of polls on that site pick
> up *without* the free publicity they've had. There's also no way of
> preventing people from making fraudulent multiple entries, so the true
> figure is likely to be significantly lower than what's quoted. (I
> wonder, for example, how many of scojo's nutjob aliases appear on that
> list of 'signatures')
>
> Anyway, even if there were 10,000 'fans' worldwide who were really
> going to boycott the movie, EON could recoup their losses within a few
> weeks by getting their catering department to switch to a cheaper brand
> of coffee. To quote Elliot Carver, 'Pathetic'.

--- Not that I think this is something that will have much effect one
way or another on the movie at this point, but if they manage to
sustain this in some sort of high-profile fashion till November, that
paltry 10,000 in just a few days [which isn't that paltry in Net tirms
when it's only been a few days], could mushroom to 10 or even a 100
times that figure. Personally, I'm resigned to the fact that we're
stuck with Craig with at least one movie, and it may end up being just
that - one movie. Especially if this petition ends up having its way.
The trick will be for them to sustain this, though.


>
> Best
>
> Phil
>
> (Absolutely sure that when EON started work on CR, just as when they
> started work on FYEO, OHMSS, and TLD, they had already decided that
> getting the series back on track was more important than losing what
> amounts to a handful of audience members. Does anybody really think
> they weren't expecting to get any flak after replacing the most
> popular Bond since Connery with an unknown and perhaps left-field
> choice? Get real. They simply decided they could live with the
> inevitable whining and bitching, so anybody who thinks they're going
> to slap their foreheads and say 'Good god, what have we done? Halt
> production now and get Pierce back!' is in for a long, long wait.)
Re: Toby Stephens defends Craig, criticises DAD... [message #227680 ] Fr, 24 Februar 2006 16:57
phil.gerrard1  
WQ wrote:

> --- Not that I think this is something that will have much effect one
> way or another on the movie at this point, but if they manage to
> sustain this in some sort of high-profile fashion till November, that
> paltry 10,000 in just a few days [which isn't that paltry in Net tirms
> when it's only been a few days], could mushroom to 10 or even a 100
> times that figure. Personally, I'm resigned to the fact that we're
> stuck with Craig with at least one movie, and it may end up being just
> that - one movie. Especially if this petition ends up having its way.
> The trick will be for them to sustain this, though.

Well, it also depends on whether you're convinced by the veracity of
those signatures. As noted elsewhere, the checks Petitions Online make
to ensure there's no duplication of names are feeble (after all, they
have a vested interest in having high numbers of signatures attached to
the petitions they run). As a result the potential for fraud is
massive - you just have to make up ten names and e-mail addresses, and
bingo, there are ten more signatures on the list - and if you think the
likes of scojo and the craignotbond crew are above doing a bit of
ballot-stuffing if they think it'll help their cause, then you're a lot
more trusting than I.

Best

Phil
Re: Toby Stephens defends Craig, criticises DAD... [message #227681 ] Fr, 24 Februar 2006 17:03
Will Traynor  
"phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com" <phil.gerrard1 [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1140796658.289710.62720 [at] e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
> WQ wrote:
>
>> --- Not that I think this is something that will have much effect one
>> way or another on the movie at this point, but if they manage to
>> sustain this in some sort of high-profile fashion till November, that
>> paltry 10,000 in just a few days [which isn't that paltry in Net tirms
>> when it's only been a few days], could mushroom to 10 or even a 100
>> times that figure. Personally, I'm resigned to the fact that we're
>> stuck with Craig with at least one movie, and it may end up being just
>> that - one movie. Especially if this petition ends up having its way.
>> The trick will be for them to sustain this, though.
>
> Well, it also depends on whether you're convinced by the veracity of
> those signatures. As noted elsewhere, the checks Petitions Online make
> to ensure there's no duplication of names are feeble (after all, they
> have a vested interest in having high numbers of signatures attached to
> the petitions they run). As a result the potential for fraud is
> massive - you just have to make up ten names and e-mail addresses, and
> bingo, there are ten more signatures on the list - and if you think the
> likes of scojo and the craignotbond crew are above doing a bit of
> ballot-stuffing if they think it'll help their cause, then you're a lot
> more trusting than I.
>
> Best
>
> Phil
>

You have much more patience than I.....Soon, there will be petitions in
every neighborhood. They should be knocking at your door any moment, looking
for "Dump Craig" signatures, lol
Re: Toby Stephens defends Craig, criticises DAD... [message #227682 ] Fr, 24 Februar 2006 17:10
phil.gerrard1  
Will wrote:

> You have much more patience than I.....Soon, there will be petitions in
> every neighborhood. They should be knocking at your door any moment, looking
> for "Dump Craig" signatures, lol

As a matter of fact, I once saw my name and e-mail address show up on
an online petition which I had neither signed nor seen. Somebody - I
never found out who - had dumped the entire contents of their address
book onto the petition, thereby driving up the numbers hugely *and*
ensuring that anybody who wanted to check whether the signatures were
genuine would find that the e-mail addresses worked. It's a simple
trick, and probably not an uncommon one either.

Once again, I'm probably giving people ideas...

Best

Phil
Re: Toby Stephens defends Craig, criticises DAD... [message #227683 ] Fr, 24 Februar 2006 17:11
Will Traynor  
"phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com" <phil.gerrard1 [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1140797446.444760.95950 [at] v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> Will wrote:
>
>> You have much more patience than I.....Soon, there will be petitions in
>> every neighborhood. They should be knocking at your door any moment,
>> looking
>> for "Dump Craig" signatures, lol
>
> As a matter of fact, I once saw my name and e-mail address show up on
> an online petition which I had neither signed nor seen. Somebody - I
> never found out who - had dumped the entire contents of their address
> book onto the petition, thereby driving up the numbers hugely *and*
> ensuring that anybody who wanted to check whether the signatures were
> genuine would find that the e-mail addresses worked. It's a simple
> trick, and probably not an uncommon one either.
>
> Once again, I'm probably giving people ideas...
>
> Best
>
> Phil
>

Yes, keep that under your hat ;-)
Re: Toby Stephens defends Craig, criticises DAD... [message #227685 ] Fr, 24 Februar 2006 18:02
phil.gerrard1  
Will wrote:

> > As a matter of fact, I once saw my name and e-mail address show up on
> > an online petition which I had neither signed nor seen. Somebody - I
> > never found out who - had dumped the entire contents of their address
> > book onto the petition, thereby driving up the numbers hugely *and*
> > ensuring that anybody who wanted to check whether the signatures were
> > genuine would find that the e-mail addresses worked. It's a simple
> > trick, and probably not an uncommon one either.
> >
> > Once again, I'm probably giving people ideas...
>
> Yes, keep that under your hat ;-)

Oh, yeah, and a few more for the petition-riggers: you can buy bulk
e-mail lists pretty cheaply these days as well (I saw one legitimate
company offering 5000 for $50). If the cause is really dear to your
heart, that's a small price to pay for 5000 extra supporters, and
no-one need ever know! Failing that, just make stuff up. A few lines
of code can generate hundreds of real-looking e-mail addresses, and you
can then attach them to randomised names from a list of about 30,
generating tens of thousands of completely authentic-looking virtual
supporters. If you're not technically-minded, typing in say, 'John'
and 'jy974 [at] yahoo.com' is almost as quick, and when you can't think of
any more names, just start over. After all, how many 'John's or
'Mary's are there in the world? As long as you don't accidentally
match a name with an e-mail address you used earlier, it can't go
wrong. Petition fraud. It's easy, fun, and impossible to detect.

10,000 names and counting? *Prove it*.

Best

Phil
Re: Toby Stephens defends Craig, criticises DAD... [message #227700 ] Fr, 24 Februar 2006 20:17
WQ  
phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com wrote:
> Will wrote:
>
> > > As a matter of fact, I once saw my name and e-mail address show up on
> > > an online petition which I had neither signed nor seen. Somebody - I
> > > never found out who - had dumped the entire contents of their address
> > > book onto the petition, thereby driving up the numbers hugely *and*
> > > ensuring that anybody who wanted to check whether the signatures were
> > > genuine would find that the e-mail addresses worked. It's a simple
> > > trick, and probably not an uncommon one either.
> > >
> > > Once again, I'm probably giving people ideas...
> >
> > Yes, keep that under your hat ;-)
>
> Oh, yeah, and a few more for the petition-riggers: you can buy bulk
> e-mail lists pretty cheaply these days as well (I saw one legitimate
> company offering 5000 for $50). If the cause is really dear to your
> heart, that's a small price to pay for 5000 extra supporters, and
> no-one need ever know! Failing that, just make stuff up. A few lines
> of code can generate hundreds of real-looking e-mail addresses, and you
> can then attach them to randomised names from a list of about 30,
> generating tens of thousands of completely authentic-looking virtual
> supporters. If you're not technically-minded, typing in say, 'John'
> and 'jy974 [at] yahoo.com' is almost as quick, and when you can't think of
> any more names, just start over. After all, how many 'John's or
> 'Mary's are there in the world? As long as you don't accidentally
> match a name with an e-mail address you used earlier, it can't go
> wrong. Petition fraud. It's easy, fun, and impossible to detect.
>
> 10,000 names and counting? *Prove it*.

--- And even if it is rigged but never proven so, depending on how
successful the campaign is, as phony as it could be, it could still
produce a negative effect on the movie - again, depending how long they
can sustain this piece of fact or fancy.

>
> Best
>
> Phil
Re: Toby Stephens defends Craig, criticises DAD... [message #227701 ] Fr, 24 Februar 2006 20:53
JHause  
phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com wrote:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4744732.stm
>
> Note the subtle change from 'a group of Bond fans' to 'some fans'.
> Note also that if the best craignotbond can do is to get 10,000
> signatures after all the free publicity they've had from major news
> outlets from the BBC to AP, they're doing pretty poorly. It's an
> insignificant number compared to what a lot of polls on that site pick
> up *without* the free publicity they've had. There's also no way of
> preventing people from making fraudulent multiple entries, so the true
> figure is likely to be significantly lower than what's quoted. (I
> wonder, for example, how many of scojo's nutjob aliases appear on that
> list of 'signatures')
>
> Anyway, even if there were 10,000 'fans' worldwide who were really
> going to boycott the movie, EON could recoup their losses within a few
> weeks by getting their catering department to switch to a cheaper brand
> of coffee. To quote Elliot Carver, 'Pathetic'.
>
> Best
>
> Phil
>
> (Absolutely sure that when EON started work on CR, just as when they
> started work on FYEO, OHMSS, and TLD, they had already decided that
> getting the series back on track was more important than losing what
> amounts to a handful of audience members. Does anybody really think
> they weren't expecting to get any flak after replacing the most
> popular Bond since Connery with an unknown and perhaps left-field
> choice? Get real. They simply decided they could live with the
> inevitable whining and bitching, so anybody who thinks they're going
> to slap their foreheads and say 'Good god, what have we done? Halt
> production now and get Pierce back!' is in for a long, long wait.)

Did they pass "SAVE THE DETROIT ZOO" yet?
Re: Toby Stephens defends Craig, criticises DAD... [message #227730 ] Sa, 25 Februar 2006 02:04
phil.gerrard1  
WQ wrote:

> --- And even if it is rigged but never proven so, depending on how
> successful the campaign is, as phony as it could be, it could still
> produce a negative effect on the movie -

In fact, that's the stated intention of the petition, and as you said,
WQ, we're in outlaw country here - no fair play, no honour system.
However, this may be another case of the craignotbond people shooting
themselves in the foot, since *no* reputable news source ever bothers
to report the result of internet petitions. (I'd challenge anybody to
find a case where that's happened.) They're just so open to abuse that
it's not worth it. I suspect that the effect of the petition on the
movie is going to be negligible, except among those who already dislike
Craig and are willing to believe, well, anything, really. Since those
people have already said they're boycotting the film, what difference
does it make? Also, what's the betting that many of them abandon the
boycott and go to see CR anyway in the hope of finding more reasons to
bash Craig?

Best

Phil
Re: Toby Stephens defends Craig, criticises DAD... [message #227796 ] So, 26 Februar 2006 18:58
Draugnar  
Hey, if he spends all his time posting signatures, then he won't be here
posting tripe.

-Draugnar

"phil.gerrard [at] ntlworld.com" <phil.gerrard1 [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1140778793.888195.148070 [at] e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
> Of course, my last message will probably have encouraged scojo to
> scurry off to Petitions Online and add a couple of hundred more bogus
> signatures...
>
> Best
>
> Phil
>
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