Sprinkler Systems Uhaul move Lawn care Roses and trees Ford Parts Chrysler Parts Lake Powell New IPod Touch Apps New IPhone Apps IPhone Apps IPad Information IPad Apps Android APPS Android Games APPS Android Systems Android Tablets APPS and Beyond Smartphone Apps Smartphone Games Apps Repair and Tools Tablet PC Car Sharing Car Leasing Tabler Pc Fly Fishing Toyota Cars Vacation Rentals Stock market NYSE SSE Stock Freight & Shipping News Gluten Lactose Gout My Coupon Life Campgrounds Check Outdoor Kitchen Design and Redoo Bath Remodeling Palm Springs Las Vegas Vacation Tipps Lake Powell Boating Homes for lease Electric and green Car Blog Pearls and diamonds Whatsapp and forget SMS Blog, What is Whatsapp App Solar Panel Solar Energie Sun Power Blog
Reader


[Suche]  [Administrator]  [Hinweise zum Reader]  [Startseite]
Science Fiction » alt.fan.starwars » What Leia said in RotJ
What Leia said in RotJ [message #221060] Di, 28 Februar 2006 18:57
biowarble  
This may have been brought up before, but I am runnign out of time on
this public libarary computer system.

In RotJ, Luke asks whether Leia remembers her mother, her real mother;
and Leia said yes, and that she was very beautiful - and sad. But we
know from RotS that Padme' died childbirth. Is this a goof by GL?
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #221062 ] Di, 28 Februar 2006 19:30
Lurk McBurk  
<biowarble [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1141149456.524305.259930 [at] p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> This may have been brought up before, but I am runnign out of time on
> this public libarary computer system.
>
> In RotJ, Luke asks whether Leia remembers her mother, her real mother;
> and Leia said yes, and that she was very beautiful - and sad. But we
> know from RotS that Padme' died childbirth. Is this a goof by GL?
>

Yes, it was a huge mistake, on a list of a thousand others. The excusers in
this group will say things like, "As a Jedi she might have remembered her
mother" or "She was remembering Mrs. Organa." I don't know why the toadies
make up ridiculous theories like this.
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #221065 ] Di, 28 Februar 2006 21:06
Anybody  
In article <_E0Nf.34$mZ3.14 [at] fe12.lga>, "Lurk McBurk" <lurk [at] lurk.lurk>
wrote:

> <biowarble [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1141149456.524305.259930 [at] p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> > This may have been brought up before, but I am runnign out of time on
> > this public libarary computer system.
> >
> > In RotJ, Luke asks whether Leia remembers her mother, her real mother;
> > and Leia said yes, and that she was very beautiful - and sad. But we
> > know from RotS that Padme' died childbirth. Is this a goof by GL?
>
> Yes, it was a huge mistake, on a list of a thousand others. The excusers in
> this group will say things like, "As a Jedi she might have remembered her
> mother" or "She was remembering Mrs. Organa." I don't know why the toadies
> make up ridiculous theories like this.

And idiots with no brains give the "George Lucas made a mistake,
everything he does is wrong" excuse. :-\
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #221066 ] Di, 28 Februar 2006 21:15
Anybody  
In article <1141149456.524305.259930 [at] p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>,
"biowarble [at] hotmail.com" <biowarble [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

> This may have been brought up before, but I am runnign out of time on
> this public libarary computer system.
>
> In RotJ, Luke asks whether Leia remembers her mother, her real mother;
> and Leia said yes, and that she was very beautiful - and sad. But we
> know from RotS that Padme' died childbirth. Is this a goof by GL?

In film-making terms, it may or may not have been a "mistake" or more
correctly a change. The original trilogy was written long before the
prequel trilogy, and although George Lucas had a vague storyline of the
entire Saga, that storyline has changed during the actual script
writing. It may well have been the original idea to have Leia living
with her mother, but when the Prequel Trilogy was made the story had
been altered.

BUT it's still not a real mistake.

In storyline terms, a tiny bit of common sense and thought provides
answers that make sense and fit nicely with what we do know. Leia has
Force abilities, and like every other Jedi she can see things through
the Force, including the past. What Leia believes are memories are
really Force "dreams" of her mother, but not knowing she has those
abilites and being so young at the time means she confuses things. On
top of that, Leia may well have been shown images / home movies of her
mother when she was little and, like every person on this planet, is
also confusing those as real memories.
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #221067 ] Di, 28 Februar 2006 22:27
Spencer Meffert  
Anybody wrote:
> In article <1141149456.524305.259930 [at] p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>,
> "biowarble [at] hotmail.com" <biowarble [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> This may have been brought up before, but I am runnign out of time on
>> this public libarary computer system.
>>
>> In RotJ, Luke asks whether Leia remembers her mother, her real mother;
>> and Leia said yes, and that she was very beautiful - and sad. But we
>> know from RotS that Padme' died childbirth. Is this a goof by GL?
>
> In film-making terms, it may or may not have been a "mistake" or more
> correctly a change. The original trilogy was written long before the
> prequel trilogy, and although George Lucas had a vague storyline of the
> entire Saga, that storyline has changed during the actual script
> writing. It may well have been the original idea to have Leia living
> with her mother, but when the Prequel Trilogy was made the story had
> been altered.
>
> BUT it's still not a real mistake.
>
> In storyline terms, a tiny bit of common sense and thought provides
> answers that make sense and fit nicely with what we do know. Leia has
> Force abilities, and like every other Jedi she can see things through
> the Force, including the past. What Leia believes are memories are
> really Force "dreams" of her mother, but not knowing she has those
> abilites and being so young at the time means she confuses things. On
> top of that, Leia may well have been shown images / home movies of her
> mother when she was little and, like every person on this planet, is
> also confusing those as real memories.


I agree with the possibility of the Force granting Leia some ability to
sense what her mother was like, but the idea she saw images or "home
movies" of her mother is very laughable. I doubt anyone would want Leia
or anyone else for that matter, to know who her mother and more
importantly, her father was. I'm sure the secret of her origins was
well kept when she was young, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if the
Organa's themselves didn't know who the child's parents where.

This is just another case of GL wanting to change his mind again and
again. Not that he isn't entitled to it, it is his story, its just
unfortunate in a way because it is seen by so many people and effects
them negatively when things don't really mesh together. It seems GL
originally thought Luke should have been taken immediately and hidden
from Anakin, while at the same time Leia would be kept with Padme for a
time until she was eventually forced to give the child to the Organa's,
probably as a result of her death. When it came to actually making a
movie involving that part of the story, GL decided it was imperative to
make it as melodramatic as possible and kill Padme off immediately.

I think it would have been much more interesting if Vader would have
killed off Padme himself while attempted to retrieve the child he
believed she had. It would have really cemented his future character's
persona and made him one of the more truly evil villains in film.
Instead, it seems the RotS made him a man who turned bad as a result of
not only his faults but of the unfortunate events surrounding him. At
the end, when he is told Padme is dead, it is almost as though he
resigns to the fact and says to himself, "well, I might as well REALLY
be a bad guy now" it just doesn't have the power behind it I would have
expected for a character like Vader.
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #221068 ] Di, 28 Februar 2006 22:40
SpammersDie  
> I agree with the possibility of the Force granting Leia some ability to
> sense what her mother was like, but the idea she saw images or "home
> movies" of her mother is very laughable. I doubt anyone would want Leia
> or anyone else for that matter, to know who her mother and more
> importantly, her father was. I'm sure the secret of her origins was well
> kept when she was young, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if the Organa's
> themselves didn't know who the child's parents where.

I assume you meant "Mrs. Organa didn't know" as it's inconceivable given
what saw in ROTS that Senator Organa is in the dark as where the kid came
from.

And I'm pretty sure that Mrs. Organa received the memo that at least, Leia
is potentially powerful with the Force and that fact needs to be kept hidden
from the Chancellor and his minions. When little Leia starts bringing home
the podracer medals and the kids bullying her at school start complaining
about suddenly being short of breath and feeling a pain around their throat,
it's important that Mrs. Organa understand why that's happening and how to
make sure Leia learns that's not appropriate behavior without letting on
exactly what's going on.
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #221069 ] Di, 28 Februar 2006 22:46
Lurk McBurk  
"Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
news:010320060906588033%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> In article <_E0Nf.34$mZ3.14 [at] fe12.lga>, "Lurk McBurk" <lurk [at] lurk.lurk>
> wrote:
>
>> <biowarble [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1141149456.524305.259930 [at] p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>> > This may have been brought up before, but I am runnign out of time on
>> > this public libarary computer system.
>> >
>> > In RotJ, Luke asks whether Leia remembers her mother, her real mother;
>> > and Leia said yes, and that she was very beautiful - and sad. But we
>> > know from RotS that Padme' died childbirth. Is this a goof by GL?
>>
>> Yes, it was a huge mistake, on a list of a thousand others. The excusers
>> in
>> this group will say things like, "As a Jedi she might have remembered her
>> mother" or "She was remembering Mrs. Organa." I don't know why the
>> toadies
>> make up ridiculous theories like this.
>
> And idiots with no brains give the "George Lucas made a mistake,
> everything he does is wrong" excuse. :-\

And homos put little faces after every post.
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #221070 ] Mi, 01 März 2006 00:12
Spencer Meffert  
SpammersDie wrote:
>> I agree with the possibility of the Force granting Leia some ability to
>> sense what her mother was like, but the idea she saw images or "home
>> movies" of her mother is very laughable. I doubt anyone would want Leia
>> or anyone else for that matter, to know who her mother and more
>> importantly, her father was. I'm sure the secret of her origins was well
>> kept when she was young, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if the Organa's
>> themselves didn't know who the child's parents where.
>
> I assume you meant "Mrs. Organa didn't know" as it's inconceivable given
> what saw in ROTS that Senator Organa is in the dark as where the kid came
> from.
>
> And I'm pretty sure that Mrs. Organa received the memo that at least, Leia
> is potentially powerful with the Force and that fact needs to be kept hidden
> from the Chancellor and his minions. When little Leia starts bringing home
> the podracer medals and the kids bullying her at school start complaining
> about suddenly being short of breath and feeling a pain around their throat,
> it's important that Mrs. Organa understand why that's happening and how to
> make sure Leia learns that's not appropriate behavior without letting on
> exactly what's going on.
>
>

I doubt Leia would have been inadvertently choking kids because the
Force wasn't something people just used without conscious effort. And a
princess certainly wouldn't have been involved in such backwater events
as podracing. Luke didn't know what the hell the Force was and didn't
have any revelation when he did find out what it was. I don't remember
"Oh, so THAT'S why I keep picking things up with my mind and hurtling
them across the room," comments from Luke when he DID find out what the
Force was. The only reason Beru and Owen knew what Luke was to become
is because they had actually met Anakin and Obi-Wan was essentially
their neighbor. The way the story is laid out, Leia was to be in the
spotlight, she was a princess and all, without anyone having the
slightest idea her origins where anything but what they appeared to be
on the surface.

I'm sure the Organa's did know something about where Leia came from, I
just find it strange they would be filled in on the entire story.
Ignorance, after all, is bliss.
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #221071 ] Mi, 01 März 2006 00:46
Anybody  
In article <Mw3Nf.50$mZ3.15 [at] fe12.lga>, "Lurk McBurk" <lurk [at] lurk.lurk>
wrote:

> "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
> news:010320060906588033%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> > In article <_E0Nf.34$mZ3.14 [at] fe12.lga>, "Lurk McBurk" <lurk [at] lurk.lurk>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> <biowarble [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1141149456.524305.259930 [at] p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> >> > This may have been brought up before, but I am runnign out of time on
> >> > this public libarary computer system.
> >> >
> >> > In RotJ, Luke asks whether Leia remembers her mother, her real mother;
> >> > and Leia said yes, and that she was very beautiful - and sad. But we
> >> > know from RotS that Padme' died childbirth. Is this a goof by GL?
> >>
> >> Yes, it was a huge mistake, on a list of a thousand others. The excusers
> >> in
> >> this group will say things like, "As a Jedi she might have remembered her
> >> mother" or "She was remembering Mrs. Organa." I don't know why the
> >> toadies
> >> make up ridiculous theories like this.
> >
> > And idiots with no brains give the "George Lucas made a mistake,
> > everything he does is wrong" excuse. :-\
>
> And homos put little faces after every post.

At least you've got the correct screen-name - you ARE a complete "burk"!

Yet another moron meets the killfile. :-\
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #221072 ] Mi, 01 März 2006 00:51
Anybody  
In article
<Wq3Nf.478120$qk4.232601 [at] bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"SpammersDie" <xx [at] xx.xx> wrote:

> > I agree with the possibility of the Force granting Leia some ability to
> > sense what her mother was like, but the idea she saw images or "home
> > movies" of her mother is very laughable. I doubt anyone would want Leia
> > or anyone else for that matter, to know who her mother and more
> > importantly, her father was. I'm sure the secret of her origins was well
> > kept when she was young, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if the Organa's
> > themselves didn't know who the child's parents where.
>
> I assume you meant "Mrs. Organa didn't know" as it's inconceivable given
> what saw in ROTS that Senator Organa is in the dark as where the kid came
> from.
>
> And I'm pretty sure that Mrs. Organa received the memo that at least, Leia
> is potentially powerful with the Force and that fact needs to be kept hidden
> from the Chancellor and his minions. When little Leia starts bringing home
> the podracer medals and the kids bullying her at school start complaining
> about suddenly being short of breath and feeling a pain around their throat,
> it's important that Mrs. Organa understand why that's happening and how to
> make sure Leia learns that's not appropriate behavior without letting on
> exactly what's going on.

Yep, Senator Bail Organa definitely knew and it makes more sense that
he would have told his wife rather than trying to keep it a secret from
her.
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #221073 ] Mi, 01 März 2006 00:57
Anybody  
In article <4404bb9b$1_2 [at] newspeer2.tds.net>, Spencer Meffert
<smeffert [at] tds.net> wrote:

> Anybody wrote:
> > In article <1141149456.524305.259930 [at] p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>,
> > "biowarble [at] hotmail.com" <biowarble [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> This may have been brought up before, but I am runnign out of time on
> >> this public libarary computer system.
> >>
> >> In RotJ, Luke asks whether Leia remembers her mother, her real mother;
> >> and Leia said yes, and that she was very beautiful - and sad. But we
> >> know from RotS that Padme' died childbirth. Is this a goof by GL?
> >
> > In film-making terms, it may or may not have been a "mistake" or more
> > correctly a change. The original trilogy was written long before the
> > prequel trilogy, and although George Lucas had a vague storyline of the
> > entire Saga, that storyline has changed during the actual script
> > writing. It may well have been the original idea to have Leia living
> > with her mother, but when the Prequel Trilogy was made the story had
> > been altered.
> >
> > BUT it's still not a real mistake.
> >
> > In storyline terms, a tiny bit of common sense and thought provides
> > answers that make sense and fit nicely with what we do know. Leia has
> > Force abilities, and like every other Jedi she can see things through
> > the Force, including the past. What Leia believes are memories are
> > really Force "dreams" of her mother, but not knowing she has those
> > abilites and being so young at the time means she confuses things. On
> > top of that, Leia may well have been shown images / home movies of her
> > mother when she was little and, like every person on this planet, is
> > also confusing those as real memories.
>
> I agree with the possibility of the Force granting Leia some ability to
> sense what her mother was like, but the idea she saw images or "home
> movies" of her mother is very laughable. I doubt anyone would want Leia
> or anyone else for that matter, to know who her mother and more
> importantly, her father was. I'm sure the secret of her origins was
> well kept when she was young, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if the
> Organa's themselves didn't know who the child's parents where.

As someone else has said, Bail Organa definitely knew and it's likely
he told his wife and maybe even one or two of his most trusted aides /
servants.

The images / home movies of Padmé shown to Leia could easily have been
without telling her anything more than "that's is your real mother, her
name was Padmé". There would have been no sense in telling a small
child the entire true story (some white lies maybe). The Organa's may
well have planned to tell Leia everything later when it / if it was
safer, but they didn't get the chance.




> This is just another case of GL wanting to change his mind again and
> again. Not that he isn't entitled to it, it is his story, its just
> unfortunate in a way because it is seen by so many people and effects
> them negatively when things don't really mesh together. It seems GL
> originally thought Luke should have been taken immediately and hidden
> from Anakin, while at the same time Leia would be kept with Padme for a
> time until she was eventually forced to give the child to the Organa's,
> probably as a result of her death. When it came to actually making a
> movie involving that part of the story, GL decided it was imperative to
> make it as melodramatic as possible and kill Padme off immediately.

Originally Luke and Leia weren't even related. The now-mythical Third
Trilogy was about going out to find Luke's sister to help defeat the
Emperor.
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #221074 ] Mi, 01 März 2006 01:51
SpammersDie  
"Spencer Meffert" <smeffert [at] tds.net> wrote in message
news:4404d45f$1_1 [at] newspeer2.tds.net...
> SpammersDie wrote:
>>> I agree with the possibility of the Force granting Leia some ability to
>>> sense what her mother was like, but the idea she saw images or "home
>>> movies" of her mother is very laughable. I doubt anyone would want Leia
>>> or anyone else for that matter, to know who her mother and more
>>> importantly, her father was. I'm sure the secret of her origins was
>>> well kept when she was young, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if the
>>> Organa's themselves didn't know who the child's parents where.
>>
>> I assume you meant "Mrs. Organa didn't know" as it's inconceivable given
>> what saw in ROTS that Senator Organa is in the dark as where the kid came
>> from.
>>
>> And I'm pretty sure that Mrs. Organa received the memo that at least,
>> Leia is potentially powerful with the Force and that fact needs to be
>> kept hidden from the Chancellor and his minions. When little Leia starts
>> bringing home the podracer medals and the kids bullying her at school
>> start complaining about suddenly being short of breath and feeling a pain
>> around their throat, it's important that Mrs. Organa understand why
>> that's happening and how to make sure Leia learns that's not appropriate
>> behavior without letting on exactly what's going on.
>>
>>
>
> I doubt Leia would have been inadvertently choking kids because the Force
> wasn't something people just used without conscious effort. And a
> princess certainly wouldn't have been involved in such backwater events as
> podracing.

I was being facetious in those examples :)

However, the fact is that little Anakin Skywalker had no formal Force
training, yet his Force-strength was exposed by his unnatural prowess at a
sport that was supposed to be beyond a human being's physical capabilities.
So I think it's quite plausible that children who have Force-affinity would
in their everyday life do things that they think are perfectly ordinary but
would betray their midi-count to those who knew what to look for.

The Organas would have to be on constant vigil to prevent that from
happening with Leia - same with Lars and Luke. It'd be reckless not to alert
both parents as to that need up front.
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #221075 ] Mi, 01 März 2006 01:45
OSI  
biowarble [at] hotmail.com wrote:

> This may have been brought up before,

As a matter of fact, no one has ever thought of that before! Wow! Great job!


--
OSI
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #221076 ] Mi, 01 März 2006 02:03
SpammersDie  
"Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
news:010320061257166976%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...

> The images / home movies of Padmé shown to Leia could easily have been
> without telling her anything more than "that's is your real mother, her
> name was Padmé".

Assuming that the option of simply letting Leia believe she popped out of
Mrs. Organa's tube wasn't available, I think it's more likely they showed
her images of *some* random woman and told her "Look, Leia - this was your
mommy, <insert completely made up name>." This just as consistent with the
ROTJ events. There's nothing in the existing saga that suggests that the
woman Leia has vague memories of actually looks anything like Padme.

There's no way they'd risk showing her the real Padme's picture, let alone
telling her her name. Padme was a Senator and public figure. If Leia
retained good memories of Padme's name and image and later in life connected
them with the real life Padme's history, the gig would be blown immediately.
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #221082 ] Mi, 01 März 2006 04:22
Solon  
_SpammersDie_ spoke thusly on 28/02/2006 8:03 PM:
> Assuming that the option of simply letting Leia believe she popped out of
> Mrs. Organa's tube wasn't available,

Luke said "Do you remember you mother. Your /real/ mother?"
He specified 'real' mother, and Leia didn't think that was unusual.
Plus, after knowing that Vader was his father, Luke did not question the
logistics Leia being his sister.
All these make it obvious that Leia's adoption was common knowledge, at
least among the main characters.

> I think it's more likely they showed
> her images of *some* random woman and told her "Look, Leia - this was your
> mommy, <insert completely made up name>."

Why would they bother, if they're not going to show her Padme?

> There's no way they'd risk showing her the real Padme's picture, let alone
> telling her her name. Padme was a Senator and public figure. If Leia
> retained good memories of Padme's name and image and later in life connected
> them with the real life Padme's history, the gig would be blown immediately.

No-one said anything about telling Leia Padme's name. All she remembered
was "images" and "feelings".
--
usenetsolon [at] gmail.com
Firefox 1.5 is out! <http://www.mozilla.com>
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #221086 ] Mi, 01 März 2006 06:44
Anybody  
In article
<zp6Nf.478933$qk4.401610 [at] bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"SpammersDie" <xx [at] xx.xx> wrote:

> "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
> news:010320061257166976%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
>
> > The images / home movies of Padmé shown to Leia could easily have been
> > without telling her anything more than "that's is your real mother, her
> > name was Padmé".
>
> Assuming that the option of simply letting Leia believe she popped out of
> Mrs. Organa's tube wasn't available, I think it's more likely they showed
> her images of *some* random woman and told her "Look, Leia - this was your
> mommy, <insert completely made up name>." This just as consistent with the
> ROTJ events. There's nothing in the existing saga that suggests that the
> woman Leia has vague memories of actually looks anything like Padme.
>
> There's no way they'd risk showing her the real Padme's picture, let alone
> telling her her name. Padme was a Senator and public figure. If Leia
> retained good memories of Padme's name and image and later in life connected
> them with the real life Padme's history, the gig would be blown immediately.

By the time of RotJ already Leia knew she was the Organa's
birth-daughter. There's no real clues as to how much earlier she knew,
but since she "remembers" images of her "real mother" from an early
age, she at least knew something wasn't right way back then.

True, there's no proof that Leia's "images" look anything like Padmé,
but why add unnecessary complication? Since only a handful of people
knew Luke and Leia were the children of Anakin and Padmé, there's no
real reason not to tell her that *A* person called Padmé was her real
mother ... but there's no need to tell her the entire story or even any
real details (about Naboo, being Queen, etc.), at least not while she's
to young to understand the importance of keeping quiet.

Padmé was in the public eye (of a small minority anyway) 20 years
earlier (30 years before she would have been more noticeable because of
the Trade Federation bloackade of Naboo, but even then most of the
public probably couldn't care less what happens in the Senate, just
like most people don't care less what happens in their Government ...
until it affects them personally). Do you know who all the members of
your country's congress / parliament / whatever were 20 years ago?? And
the Galactic Senate has WAY more members. Not to metnion that Padmé is
hardly likely to be a unique name with only one person in the entire
history of the Galaxy having it.
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #221087 ] Mi, 01 März 2006 06:49
Anybody  
In article <mp-dnU9zRKAsjpjZRVn-rg [at] giganews.com>, Solon
<usenetsolon [at] gmail.com> wrote:

> _SpammersDie_ spoke thusly on 28/02/2006 8:03 PM:
>
> > There's no way they'd risk showing her the real Padme's picture, let alone
> > telling her her name. Padme was a Senator and public figure. If Leia
> > retained good memories of Padme's name and image and later in life
> > connected
> > them with the real life Padme's history, the gig would be blown immediately.
>
> No-one said anything about telling Leia Padme's name. All she remembered
> was "images" and "feelings".

Actually, I did, but only as an example of one possibility. Telling
Leia her mother was named "Padmé" isn't going to cause much of a
problem. It's quite likely that there's more than one Padmé in the
Galaxies history.
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #221089 ] Mi, 01 März 2006 08:10
SpammersDie  
> True, there's no proof that Leia's "images" look anything like Padmé,
> but why add unnecessary complication?

I think it makes it less complicated, not more. Senator Organa achieves
nothing by giving Leia clues to her mother's true identity before he's ready
for her to know it. It would be more logical for him to lead her down the
wrong track in every way.



> Padmé was in the public eye (of a small minority anyway) 20 years
> earlier (30 years before she would have been more noticeable because of
> the Trade Federation bloackade of Naboo, but even then most of the
> public probably couldn't care less what happens in the Senate, just
> like most people don't care less what happens in their Government ...

Leia's not just any member of the public - she's being raised by a Senator
and she would become a Senator herself and someone who's probably working
politically (as well as her other activities) to bring the Chancellor down.
Padme was the Senator from Palps home planet, Palpatine has a long
association with Padme and Padme was the person whose actions in the Senate
created the job opening for Palps in the first place.

So yeah, I'd expect Padme the Senator to show up on Leia's radar. It would
make no sense to create even a suspicion of a connection in her mind.
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #221092 ] Mi, 01 März 2006 14:27
Jedi Apprentice  
I think people tend to miss the big picture with this. Whether this is
a continuity error on the part of GL or it was intended makes little
difference. I think all that scene in ROTJ was doing was establishing
that Leia and Lukes mother is dead and died a long time ago, and
informs the viewer that Luke never knew his mother.

When Padme says "she was very beutiful but sad". I think this is just
supposed to give the viewers the idea that their mother knew that their
father had tuned bad, which was why she was so sad.

Just my ten pence worth...
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #221093 ] Mi, 01 März 2006 16:08
Lurk McBurk  
"Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
news:010320061246328160%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> In article <Mw3Nf.50$mZ3.15 [at] fe12.lga>, "Lurk McBurk" <lurk [at] lurk.lurk>
> wrote:
>
>> "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
>> news:010320060906588033%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
>> > In article <_E0Nf.34$mZ3.14 [at] fe12.lga>, "Lurk McBurk" <lurk [at] lurk.lurk>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> <biowarble [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:1141149456.524305.259930 [at] p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>> >> > This may have been brought up before, but I am runnign out of time
>> >> > on
>> >> > this public libarary computer system.
>> >> >
>> >> > In RotJ, Luke asks whether Leia remembers her mother, her real
>> >> > mother;
>> >> > and Leia said yes, and that she was very beautiful - and sad. But
>> >> > we
>> >> > know from RotS that Padme' died childbirth. Is this a goof by GL?
>> >>
>> >> Yes, it was a huge mistake, on a list of a thousand others. The
>> >> excusers
>> >> in
>> >> this group will say things like, "As a Jedi she might have remembered
>> >> her
>> >> mother" or "She was remembering Mrs. Organa." I don't know why the
>> >> toadies
>> >> make up ridiculous theories like this.
>> >
>> > And idiots with no brains give the "George Lucas made a mistake,
>> > everything he does is wrong" excuse. :-\
>>
>> And homos put little faces after every post.
>
> At least you've got the correct screen-name - you ARE a complete "burk"!
>
> Yet another moron meets the killfile. :-\

Good, now I don't have to hear your lucas apologies.
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #221094 ] Mi, 01 März 2006 16:09
Lurk McBurk  
"Jedi Apprentice" <eddieh [at] evoicing.com> wrote in message
news:1141219620.361546.307050 [at] i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>I think people tend to miss the big picture with this. Whether this is
> a continuity error on the part of GL or it was intended makes little
> difference. I think all that scene in ROTJ was doing was establishing
> that Leia and Lukes mother is dead and died a long time ago, and
> informs the viewer that Luke never knew his mother.
>
> When Padme says "she was very beutiful but sad". I think this is just
> supposed to give the viewers the idea that their mother knew that their
> father had tuned bad, which was why she was so sad.
>
> Just my ten pence worth...
>

You'd think when writing the much anticipated prequels, lucas could have
watched his own movies first. Is that too much to ask?
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #221097 ] Mi, 01 März 2006 20:58
Anybody  
In article <oNbNf.2365$J02.1388 [at] bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"SpammersDie" <xx [at] xx.xx> wrote:

> > True, there's no proof that Leia's "images" look anything like Padmé,
> > but why add unnecessary complication?
>
> I think it makes it less complicated, not more. Senator Organa achieves
> nothing by giving Leia clues to her mother's true identity before he's ready
> for her to know it. It would be more logical for him to lead her down the
> wrong track in every way.

There's little point in telling her that "Jane" is your real mother
when she's aged 5 (for example) and then when she's aged 9 she comes up
and asks "was Jane good at art?" and the Organas think "who the hell is
Jane?".

It's simply too complicated, and complicated secrets are hard to keep.
It makes more sense to tell Leia the truth, to a point. There's no need
to tell her Padmé was Queen of Naboo or a Senator, etc. You just tell
her the basics that Padmé was a beuatiful, kind, etc. women who died
when Leia was very young.



> > Padmé was in the public eye (of a small minority anyway) 20 years
> > earlier (30 years before she would have been more noticeable because of
> > the Trade Federation bloackade of Naboo, but even then most of the
> > public probably couldn't care less what happens in the Senate, just
> > like most people don't care less what happens in their Government ...
>
> Leia's not just any member of the public - she's being raised by a Senator
> and she would become a Senator herself and someone who's probably working
> politically (as well as her other activities) to bring the Chancellor down.
> Padme was the Senator from Palps home planet, Palpatine has a long
> association with Padme and Padme was the person whose actions in the Senate
> created the job opening for Palps in the first place.
>
> So yeah, I'd expect Padme the Senator to show up on Leia's radar. It would
> make no sense to create even a suspicion of a connection in her mind.

But "Padmé" isn't likely to be a unique name. With only a very basic
outline as above, Leia couldn't connect "Padmé" to any one person in
the history books.
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #221098 ] Mi, 01 März 2006 23:29
Solon  
_Anybody_ spoke thusly on 01/03/2006 2:58 PM:
> In article <oNbNf.2365$J02.1388 [at] bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> "SpammersDie" <xx [at] xx.xx> wrote:
>
>>> True, there's no proof that Leia's "images" look anything like Padmé,
>>> but why add unnecessary complication?
>> I think it makes it less complicated, not more. Senator Organa achieves
>> nothing by giving Leia clues to her mother's true identity before he's ready
>> for her to know it. It would be more logical for him to lead her down the
>> wrong track in every way.
>
> There's little point in telling her that "Jane" is your real mother
> when she's aged 5 (for example) and then when she's aged 9 she comes up
> and asks "was Jane good at art?" and the Organas think "who the hell is
> Jane?".
>
> It's simply too complicated, and complicated secrets are hard to keep.
> It makes more sense to tell Leia the truth, to a point. There's no need
> to tell her Padmé was Queen of Naboo or a Senator, etc. You just tell
> her the basics that Padmé was a beuatiful, kind, etc. women who died
> when Leia was very young.
>
>>> Padmé was in the public eye (of a small minority anyway) 20 years
>>> earlier (30 years before she would have been more noticeable because of
>>> the Trade Federation bloackade of Naboo, but even then most of the
>>> public probably couldn't care less what happens in the Senate, just
>>> like most people don't care less what happens in their Government ...
>> Leia's not just any member of the public - she's being raised by a Senator
>> and she would become a Senator herself and someone who's probably working
>> politically (as well as her other activities) to bring the Chancellor down.
>> Padme was the Senator from Palps home planet, Palpatine has a long
>> association with Padme and Padme was the person whose actions in the Senate
>> created the job opening for Palps in the first place.
>>
>> So yeah, I'd expect Padme the Senator to show up on Leia's radar. It would
>> make no sense to create even a suspicion of a connection in her mind.
>
> But "Padmé" isn't likely to be a unique name. With only a very basic
> outline as above, Leia couldn't connect "Padmé" to any one person in
> the history books.

Leia only remembers images (beautiful) and feelings (sad). No name. No
occupation. So don't bother worrying about what name the Organas told
her. Imagine this: Leia is a toddler. Either her or the Organas come
across a hologram of Padme. Whether Leia asks "who's that", or Bail
brings it up, someone says "That's your real mommy. She died when you
were very young; and we've been taking care of since." Is a toddler
going to ask "What was her name" or "what did she do for a living"? Even
if she does ask, what are the chances of toddler Leia remember those
details long after?

What are chances senator Leia Organa would get into a conversation with
the Emperor? If she does, all she can tell him is that her mother died
when she was very young, and the Organas adopted her.
--
usenetsolon [at] gmail.com
Firefox 1.5 is out! <http://www.mozilla.com>
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #221099 ] Mi, 01 März 2006 23:30
Solon  
_Lurk McBurk_ spoke thusly on 01/03/2006 10:09 AM:
> You'd think when writing the much anticipated prequels, lucas could have
> watched his own movies first. Is that too much to ask?

From a certain point of view.
--
usenetsolon [at] gmail.com
Firefox 1.5 is out! <http://www.mozilla.com>
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #221101 ] Do, 02 März 2006 00:54
Anybody  
In article <OM2dnX_P97bhvZvZnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d [at] giganews.com>, Solon
<usenetsolon [at] gmail.com> wrote:

> _Anybody_ spoke thusly on 01/03/2006 2:58 PM:
> > In article <oNbNf.2365$J02.1388 [at] bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> > "SpammersDie" <xx [at] xx.xx> wrote:
> >
> >>> True, there's no proof that Leia's "images" look anything like Padmé,
> >>> but why add unnecessary complication?
> >> I think it makes it less complicated, not more. Senator Organa achieves
> >> nothing by giving Leia clues to her mother's true identity before he's
> >> ready
> >> for her to know it. It would be more logical for him to lead her down the
> >> wrong track in every way.
> >
> > There's little point in telling her that "Jane" is your real mother
> > when she's aged 5 (for example) and then when she's aged 9 she comes up
> > and asks "was Jane good at art?" and the Organas think "who the hell is
> > Jane?".
> >
> > It's simply too complicated, and complicated secrets are hard to keep.
> > It makes more sense to tell Leia the truth, to a point. There's no need
> > to tell her Padmé was Queen of Naboo or a Senator, etc. You just tell
> > her the basics that Padmé was a beuatiful, kind, etc. women who died
> > when Leia was very young.
> >
> >>> Padmé was in the public eye (of a small minority anyway) 20 years
> >>> earlier (30 years before she would have been more noticeable because of
> >>> the Trade Federation bloackade of Naboo, but even then most of the
> >>> public probably couldn't care less what happens in the Senate, just
> >>> like most people don't care less what happens in their Government ...
> >> Leia's not just any member of the public - she's being raised by a Senator
> >> and she would become a Senator herself and someone who's probably working
> >> politically (as well as her other activities) to bring the Chancellor
> >> down.
> >> Padme was the Senator from Palps home planet, Palpatine has a long
> >> association with Padme and Padme was the person whose actions in the
> >> Senate
> >> created the job opening for Palps in the first place.
> >>
> >> So yeah, I'd expect Padme the Senator to show up on Leia's radar. It would
> >> make no sense to create even a suspicion of a connection in her mind.
> >
> > But "Padmé" isn't likely to be a unique name. With only a very basic
> > outline as above, Leia couldn't connect "Padmé" to any one person in
> > the history books.
>
> Leia only remembers images (beautiful) and feelings (sad). No name. No
> occupation. So don't bother worrying about what name the Organas told
> her. Imagine this: Leia is a toddler. Either her or the Organas come
> across a hologram of Padme. Whether Leia asks "who's that", or Bail
> brings it up, someone says "That's your real mommy. She died when you
> were very young; and we've been taking care of since." Is a toddler
> going to ask "What was her name" or "what did she do for a living"? Even
> if she does ask, what are the chances of toddler Leia remember those
> details long after?

All true. I simply went along one possible path and some people seem to
have got stuck on the "Padmé" bit.

But as I said above, even if she is told simple fact as a toddler /
young child, she is likely to come back later with more questions.
Many, although not all, adopted children want to know about their "real
family".

Luke was fobbed off with a half-truth and a lie. Maybe Leia was too,
maybe not. We don't know for sure.



> What are chances senator Leia Organa would get into a conversation with
> the Emperor? If she does, all she can tell him is that her mother died
> when she was very young, and the Organas adopted her.

In the EU material a young Leia does indeed meet the Emperor and Vader
before Episode III. I don't know much more about that, but she probably
didn't have long conversations with him since he's likely to just
dismiss her as an irrelevant child.
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #228565 ] Do, 02 März 2006 06:18
John Duncan Yoyo  
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 12:54:17 +1300, Anybody
<anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote:

>In article <OM2dnX_P97bhvZvZnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d [at] giganews.com>, Solon
><usenetsolon [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> _Anybody_ spoke thusly on 01/03/2006 2:58 PM:
>> > In article <oNbNf.2365$J02.1388 [at] bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>> > "SpammersDie" <xx [at] xx.xx> wrote:
>> >
>> >>> True, there's no proof that Leia's "images" look anything like Padmé,
>> >>> but why add unnecessary complication?
>> >> I think it makes it less complicated, not more. Senator Organa achieves
>> >> nothing by giving Leia clues to her mother's true identity before he's
>> >> ready
>> >> for her to know it. It would be more logical for him to lead her down the
>> >> wrong track in every way.
>> >
>> > There's little point in telling her that "Jane" is your real mother
>> > when she's aged 5 (for example) and then when she's aged 9 she comes up
>> > and asks "was Jane good at art?" and the Organas think "who the hell is
>> > Jane?".
>> >
>> > It's simply too complicated, and complicated secrets are hard to keep.
>> > It makes more sense to tell Leia the truth, to a point. There's no need
>> > to tell her Padmé was Queen of Naboo or a Senator, etc. You just tell
>> > her the basics that Padmé was a beuatiful, kind, etc. women who died
>> > when Leia was very young.
>> >
>> >>> Padmé was in the public eye (of a small minority anyway) 20 years
>> >>> earlier (30 years before she would have been more noticeable because of
>> >>> the Trade Federation bloackade of Naboo, but even then most of the
>> >>> public probably couldn't care less what happens in the Senate, just
>> >>> like most people don't care less what happens in their Government ...
>> >> Leia's not just any member of the public - she's being raised by a Senator
>> >> and she would become a Senator herself and someone who's probably working
>> >> politically (as well as her other activities) to bring the Chancellor
>> >> down.
>> >> Padme was the Senator from Palps home planet, Palpatine has a long
>> >> association with Padme and Padme was the person whose actions in the
>> >> Senate
>> >> created the job opening for Palps in the first place.
>> >>
>> >> So yeah, I'd expect Padme the Senator to show up on Leia's radar. It would
>> >> make no sense to create even a suspicion of a connection in her mind.
>> >
>> > But "Padmé" isn't likely to be a unique name. With only a very basic
>> > outline as above, Leia couldn't connect "Padmé" to any one person in
>> > the history books.
>>
>> Leia only remembers images (beautiful) and feelings (sad). No name. No
>> occupation. So don't bother worrying about what name the Organas told
>> her. Imagine this: Leia is a toddler. Either her or the Organas come
>> across a hologram of Padme. Whether Leia asks "who's that", or Bail
>> brings it up, someone says "That's your real mommy. She died when you
>> were very young; and we've been taking care of since." Is a toddler
>> going to ask "What was her name" or "what did she do for a living"? Even
>> if she does ask, what are the chances of toddler Leia remember those
>> details long after?
>
>All true. I simply went along one possible path and some people seem to
>have got stuck on the "Padmé" bit.
>
>But as I said above, even if she is told simple fact as a toddler /
>young child, she is likely to come back later with more questions.
>Many, although not all, adopted children want to know about their "real
>family".
>
>Luke was fobbed off with a half-truth and a lie. Maybe Leia was too,
>maybe not. We don't know for sure.
>
>
>
>> What are chances senator Leia Organa would get into a conversation with
>> the Emperor? If she does, all she can tell him is that her mother died
>> when she was very young, and the Organas adopted her.
>
>In the EU material a young Leia does indeed meet the Emperor and Vader
>before Episode III. I don't know much more about that, but she probably
>didn't have long conversations with him since he's likely to just
>dismiss her as an irrelevant child.

It think there may have been something in the Star Wars radio play
about a meeting as well.
--
John Duncan Yoyo
------------------------------o)
Brought to you by the Binks for Senate campaign comittee.
Coruscant is far, far away from wesa on Naboo.
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #228570 ] Do, 02 März 2006 09:58
Anybody  
In article <puvc02pv4qg2c294fcp4fgko6sraj86cv9 [at] 4ax.com>, John Duncan
Yoyo <john-duncan-yoyo [at] cox.net> wrote:

> On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 12:54:17 +1300, Anybody
> <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <OM2dnX_P97bhvZvZnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d [at] giganews.com>, Solon
> ><usenetsolon [at] gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> _Anybody_ spoke thusly on 01/03/2006 2:58 PM:
> >> > In article <oNbNf.2365$J02.1388 [at] bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> >> > "SpammersDie" <xx [at] xx.xx> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>> True, there's no proof that Leia's "images" look anything like Padmé,
> >> >>> but why add unnecessary complication?
> >> >> I think it makes it less complicated, not more. Senator Organa achieves
> >> >> nothing by giving Leia clues to her mother's true identity before he's
> >> >> ready
> >> >> for her to know it. It would be more logical for him to lead her down
> >> >> the
> >> >> wrong track in every way.
> >> >
> >> > There's little point in telling her that "Jane" is your real mother
> >> > when she's aged 5 (for example) and then when she's aged 9 she comes up
> >> > and asks "was Jane good at art?" and the Organas think "who the hell is
> >> > Jane?".
> >> >
> >> > It's simply too complicated, and complicated secrets are hard to keep.
> >> > It makes more sense to tell Leia the truth, to a point. There's no need
> >> > to tell her Padmé was Queen of Naboo or a Senator, etc. You just tell
> >> > her the basics that Padmé was a beuatiful, kind, etc. women who died
> >> > when Leia was very young.
> >> >
> >> >>> Padmé was in the public eye (of a small minority anyway) 20 years
> >> >>> earlier (30 years before she would have been more noticeable because of
> >> >>> the Trade Federation bloackade of Naboo, but even then most of the
> >> >>> public probably couldn't care less what happens in the Senate, just
> >> >>> like most people don't care less what happens in their Government ...
> >> >> Leia's not just any member of the public - she's being raised by a
> >> >> Senator
> >> >> and she would become a Senator herself and someone who's probably
> >> >> working
> >> >> politically (as well as her other activities) to bring the Chancellor
> >> >> down.
> >> >> Padme was the Senator from Palps home planet, Palpatine has a long
> >> >> association with Padme and Padme was the person whose actions in the
> >> >> Senate
> >> >> created the job opening for Palps in the first place.
> >> >>
> >> >> So yeah, I'd expect Padme the Senator to show up on Leia's radar. It
> >> >> would
> >> >> make no sense to create even a suspicion of a connection in her mind.
> >> >
> >> > But "Padmé" isn't likely to be a unique name. With only a very basic
> >> > outline as above, Leia couldn't connect "Padmé" to any one person in
> >> > the history books.
> >>
> >> Leia only remembers images (beautiful) and feelings (sad). No name. No
> >> occupation. So don't bother worrying about what name the Organas told
> >> her. Imagine this: Leia is a toddler. Either her or the Organas come
> >> across a hologram of Padme. Whether Leia asks "who's that", or Bail
> >> brings it up, someone says "That's your real mommy. She died when you
> >> were very young; and we've been taking care of since." Is a toddler
> >> going to ask "What was her name" or "what did she do for a living"? Even
> >> if she does ask, what are the chances of toddler Leia remember those
> >> details long after?
> >
> >All true. I simply went along one possible path and some people seem to
> >have got stuck on the "Padmé" bit.
> >
> >But as I said above, even if she is told simple fact as a toddler /
> >young child, she is likely to come back later with more questions.
> >Many, although not all, adopted children want to know about their "real
> >family".
> >
> >Luke was fobbed off with a half-truth and a lie. Maybe Leia was too,
> >maybe not. We don't know for sure.
> >
> >
> >
> >> What are chances senator Leia Organa would get into a conversation with
> >> the Emperor? If she does, all she can tell him is that her mother died
> >> when she was very young, and the Organas adopted her.
> >
> >In the EU material a young Leia does indeed meet the Emperor and Vader
> >before Episode III. I don't know much more about that, but she probably
> >didn't have long conversations with him since he's likely to just
> >dismiss her as an irrelevant child.
>
> It think there may have been something in the Star Wars radio play
> about a meeting as well.

From memory, in the radio play Leia and Bail Organa have dinner with
Tarkin, and a little later there's the initial encounter of Leia
meeting Vader before escaping on the Rebel Blockade Runner, which then
of course leads to the opening scenes of the movie. :-)

But there's also another story somewhere in the EU (one of the comic
books I think) where a young Leia is introduced to the Emperor at some
VIP party by Bail Organa ... although I'm not sure if that's a "real"
story or one of the "what if" parallel-universe type stories.
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #228571 ] Do, 02 März 2006 16:07
frenchy  
<<<The excusers in
this group will say things like, "As a Jedi she might have remembered
her
mother" or "She was remembering Mrs. Organa." I don't know why the
toadies
make up ridiculous theories like this. >>

When I heard a friend talking about this apparent plothole, I
immediately just thought of this second scenario. Unless there is some
scene where she says she knows she's adopted I don't get why this is
some big stretch. It's not like she said she remembered her mother and
then we find out she was actually raised by a pack of wolves.
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #228576 ] Do, 02 März 2006 21:00
Anybody  
In article <1141312077.070233.235760 [at] i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"frenchy" <mf101723 [at] msn.com> wrote:

> <<<The excusers in
> this group will say things like, "As a Jedi she might have remembered
> her
> mother" or "She was remembering Mrs. Organa." I don't know why the
> toadies
> make up ridiculous theories like this. >>
>
> When I heard a friend talking about this apparent plothole, I
> immediately just thought of this second scenario. Unless there is some
> scene where she says she knows she's adopted I don't get why this is
> some big stretch. It's not like she said she remembered her mother and
> then we find out she was actually raised by a pack of wolves.

Except Luke specifically states "your REAL mother". If Leia didn't know
she was adopted she would have reacted differently and asked what
"real" meant. Therefore she did already know she was adopted and wasn't
"remembering" Mrs Organa at all, but was remembering her real mother -
Padmé. (Technically she could be remembering a nanny or someone, but
that simply doesn't make sense in terms of the story - why have Luke
ask about her real mother and have her blather on about someone else -
that WOULD be a plot hole.)

The sensible solution has already been given MANY times. If some people
don't want to believe and continue to whine on about yet another
non-existant "plot hole", then that's their problem. :-\
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #228581 ] Fr, 03 März 2006 04:36
Squibnick  
"In RotJ, Luke asks whether Leia remembers her mother, her real mother;
and Leia said yes, and that she was very beautiful - and sad. But we
know from RotS that Padme' died childbirth. Is this a goof by GL?"

Since I have not read the rest of the enteries in this thread, it has
probably already been said, but if not: it is probably Bail Organa's
wife she remembers. Or maybe, as anakins daughter and force adept of
HIGH caliber, can remember things from her very birth.
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #228583 ] Fr, 03 März 2006 06:08
Anybody  
In article <475-4407B9D7-286 [at] storefull-3214.bay.webtv.net>,
Squibnick [at] webtv.net (Lionel P. Booyans AKA L'il Tin Mimus) wrote:

> "In RotJ, Luke asks whether Leia remembers her mother, her real mother;
> and Leia said yes, and that she was very beautiful - and sad. But we
> know from RotS that Padme' died childbirth. Is this a goof by GL?"
>
> Since I have not read the rest of the enteries in this thread, it has
> probably already been said, but if not: it is probably Bail Organa's
> wife she remembers.

No. Definitely not.


> Or maybe, as anakins daughter and force adept of
> HIGH caliber, can remember things from her very birth.

Yes, sort of. Through the Force you can see past events, before she was
born. She's not really remembering anything, but mis-interpreting
Force-enhanced dreams.
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #228585 ] Fr, 03 März 2006 13:07
Squibnick  
"Through the Force you can see past events, before she was born. She's
not really remembering anything, but mis-interpreting Force-enhanced
dreams."
Maybe she is like the "pre-born" in frank Herbert's "Dune" books, where
certain fetuses attain consciousness before birth and can remember
things from their "moments of awakening" onward. These preborn are
usually created by exposure in the womb to certain powerful psychoactive
drugs, but maybe in the Star Wars universe something similar happened
because it was Anakin's offspring and therefore a special case.
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #228587 ] Fr, 03 März 2006 23:54
frenchy  
<<Except Luke specifically states "your REAL mother". If Leia didn't
know
she was adopted she would have reacted differently and asked what
"real" meant.>>

Ok I didn't remember that line, but if that was the only reference then
I find that more annoying than what she said she remembered. Why'd
Lucas have him say 'your REAL mother' out of the blue with no other
reference to it? He's saying it as if we all already know she's
adopted, and then we're asking ourselves, gee, are we supposed to know
that already? And why does LUKE know that? So yeah the original
screwup was the 'real', shoulda just left it out not because it didn't
fit the scheme of things in the sequels, but because it kinda hits me
with a 'huh?' (Then again even when I saw it four times in the theater
I didn't notice it enough to get bothered.)
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #228590 ] Sa, 04 März 2006 00:18
Anybody  
In article <18651-44083198-396 [at] storefull-3215.bay.webtv.net>,
Squibnick [at] webtv.net (Lionel P. Booyans AKA L'il Tin Mimus) wrote:

> > "Through the Force you can see past events, before she was born. She's
> > not really remembering anything, but mis-interpreting Force-enhanced
> > dreams."
>
> Maybe she is like the "pre-born" in frank Herbert's "Dune" books, where
> certain fetuses attain consciousness before birth and can remember
> things from their "moments of awakening" onward. These preborn are
> usually created by exposure in the womb to certain powerful psychoactive
> drugs, but maybe in the Star Wars universe something similar happened
> because it was Anakin's offspring and therefore a special case.

The visions through the Force don't need to have the particular person
there at the time. Luke could "see" the events in Cloud City even
though he was on Dagobah. The same is true for past events.
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #228592 ] Sa, 04 März 2006 01:35
SpammersDie  
"frenchy" <mf101723 [at] msn.com> wrote in message
news:1141426496.480515.151400 [at] e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
> <<Except Luke specifically states "your REAL mother". If Leia didn't
> know
> she was adopted she would have reacted differently and asked what
> "real" meant.>>
>
> Ok I didn't remember that line, but if that was the only reference then
> I find that more annoying than what she said she remembered. Why'd
> Lucas have him say 'your REAL mother' out of the blue with no other
> reference to it? He's saying it as if we all already know she's
> adopted, and then we're asking ourselves, gee, are we supposed to know
> that already? And why does LUKE know that?

He already knows that she's Darth Vader's daughter and since Senator Organa
isn't Darth Vader the last time he checked, it's a reasonable inference on
his part.

It's also likely that it was never a secret that Leia was adopted. When
you're the Senator and the King of your home planet, you can't just announce
that Mrs. Organa was pregnant for the last nine months and that none of the
Alderaan paparrazi peering through the family keyholes 24/7 life ever
noticed. Nor is it likely that the Organas would prefer to let the public
believe that Senator Organa had been bedding other women and had produced
the child that way.

No, it's most likely that the "official" story all along is that Leia was an
orphan, perhaps found abandoned during one of the final battles of the Clone
Wars, and that her real parents were unknown. So the Organas, who had been
talking about adopting all along, took her in.
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #228596 ] Sa, 04 März 2006 09:45
frenchy  
<<Except Luke specifically states "your REAL mother". If Leia didn't
know
she was adopted she would have reacted differently and asked what
"real" meant. >>

hmmmm... I can't ascribe to that 100%, since she and Luke both know HE
wasn't raised by a real mother, and we COULD assume he doesn't know she
is adopted (I mean before he asks this question, we don't KNOW that he
knows that, only that they have the same father, right?). So, if
that's the case one could interpret it as akin to a kid having a
stuffed animal, and asking his friend with a pet "what's your real dog
like"? In that case he's only saying "real" for his own feeling about
it, he's really only asking her "what's your dog like?" I.e. Luke
could have been meaning "golly gee I didn't have a real mother, what
was your's like?".
Do I think that's what he did in ROTJ, heck no, but hey it's one more
shakily plausible out and it's Friday and I'm bored : /
And one more thing, if you think about it that's kind of a cold thing
to say if he was really talking about her birth mother. Calling her a
'real mother'? What's that make the adopted one, the fake mother?
Shoulda been "birth mother". Leia should have responded to his
question with "I dunno but YOU sure are a real mother!" : )
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #228602 ] Sa, 04 März 2006 22:45
Anybody  
In article <1141461951.236382.205380 [at] z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
"frenchy" <mf101723 [at] msn.com> wrote:

> > Except Luke specifically states "your REAL mother". If Leia didn't
> > know she was adopted she would have reacted differently and asked
> > what "real" meant.
>
> hmmmm... I can't ascribe to that 100%, since she and Luke both know HE
> wasn't raised by a real mother, and we COULD assume he doesn't know she
> is adopted (I mean before he asks this question, we don't KNOW that he
> knows that, only that they have the same father, right?).

As someone else said, Luke knew Vader was his father, Luke knew Leia
was his sister, Luke knew Leia was raised by the Bail Organa and his
wife ... it doesn't take a huge leap of intelligence to guess she was
adopted. Besides which, there's years of "blank" space between the
movies and we don't know what Luke and Leia talked about in there.
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #228603 ] Sa, 04 März 2006 23:38
frenchy  
<<Luke knew Leia was raised by the Bail Organa and his wife>>

At what point in the movies was this revealed, I don't really remember
it but then I am getting old. It is stated that both Organa AND his
wife are still alive? How do we know she was actually raised by both
of them and not just by him as a widow or something?
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #228605 ] So, 05 März 2006 00:23
Anybody  
In article <1141511894.063481.263660 [at] i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"frenchy" <mf101723 [at] msn.com> wrote:

> <<Luke knew Leia was raised by the Bail Organa and his wife>>
>
> At what point in the movies was this revealed, I don't really remember
> it but then I am getting old. It is stated that both Organa AND his
> wife are still alive? How do we know she was actually raised by both
> of them and not just by him as a widow or something?

Dear, oh dear. :-\
Re: What Leia said in RotJ [message #228608 ] So, 05 März 2006 01:21
SpammersDie  
"Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
news:050320061223418366%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> In article <1141511894.063481.263660 [at] i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "frenchy" <mf101723 [at] msn.com> wrote:
>
>> <<Luke knew Leia was raised by the Bail Organa and his wife>>
>>
>> At what point in the movies was this revealed, I don't really remember
>> it but then I am getting old. It is stated that both Organa AND his
>> wife are still alive? How do we know she was actually raised by both
>> of them and not just by him as a widow or something?
>
> Dear, oh dear. :-\

I think he's saying how do we know that Mrs. Organa (the lady at the end of
ROTS) didn't die shortly after Leia's adoption and that Leia was raised
either by Senator Organa alone or Senator Organa's new wife (i.e. a
step-mother.)

Then the "real mother" that Leia professed to remember is in fact Mrs.
Organa, although Luke ass-u-me's she's talking about Padme.

Well he's got a point. It's a pretty inelegant concoction - not something
I'd imagine any writer deliberately setting up. But it's true that there's
nothing to contradict it factually in the two trilogies.
Vorheriges Thema:Lando & Millenium Falcon
Nächstes Thema:Spirit of Lando Calrissian
Gehe zu:
  


aktuelle Zeit: Do Mai 24 22:16:06 CEST 2012

Insgesamt benötigte Zeit, um die Seite zu erzeugen: 0,11396 Sekunden
.:: Startseite - Hinweise - Impressum ::.

Powered