Criminal Trolls on AFT

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Fantasy » alt.fan.tolkien » Criminal Trolls on AFT

Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #218530]

Sa, 11 Februar 2006 22:21

Morgil

I propose that for their continuous crimes against humanity
and AFT community, we would declare a global ban against Ty
and Baron/Bajori, that starting from Monday, anyone who
responses to any of their posts will be excluded from all
the normal activities of the group. Comments?

Morgil

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #218533 ]

Sa, 11 Februar 2006 22:32

"Morgil" <morestelx [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dslkg2$v8u$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi...
>I propose that for their continuous crimes against humanity
> and AFT community, we would declare a global ban against Ty
> and Baron/Bajori, that starting from Monday, anyone who
> responses to any of their posts will be excluded from all
> the normal activities of the group. Comments?

Well ban away, silly boy(?). It probably work out better for you than being
forced to try to defend your idiotic assertions.

And I still think you will make a wonderful dhimmi.

By the way...do you think you could make this ban effective on the IRS?

I just *love* it when you lefties try to show us how smart you are.

--Ty

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #218536 ]

Sa, 11 Februar 2006 23:45

Baronjosefr

"Ty" <tybeardSPAM [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:dKsHf.11993$2O6.7613 [at] newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
> "Morgil" <morestelx [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:dslkg2$v8u$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi...
>>I propose that for their continuous crimes against humanity
>> and AFT community, we would declare a global ban against Ty
>> and Baron/Bajori, that starting from Monday, anyone who
>> responses to any of their posts will be excluded from all
>> the normal activities of the group. Comments?
>
> Well ban away, silly boy(?). It probably work out better for you than
> being forced to try to defend your idiotic assertions.
>
> And I still think you will make a wonderful dhimmi.
>
> By the way...do you think you could make this ban effective on the IRS?
>
> I just *love* it when you lefties try to show us how smart you are.
>
> --Ty
>

That is great. Once again the left-wing nut shows his disdain for the
principles of free speech.

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #218541 ]

So, 12 Februar 2006 00:17

Robinsons

Morgil wrote:
>
> I propose that for their continuous crimes against humanity
> and AFT community, we would declare a global ban against Ty
> and Baron/Bajori, that starting from Monday, anyone who
> responses to any of their posts will be excluded from all
> the normal activities of the group. Comments?
>
> Morgil

Maybe you guys should try responding to many of the
On-Topic Posts that languish on these newsgroups,

Such as my post on Gollum's on-line British Medical Journal
case study/diagnosis, immediately up-thread.

(see Gollum's Medical Diagnosis)

:-)

--BER

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #218548 ]

So, 12 Februar 2006 01:31

Jette Goldie

"Morgil" <morestelx [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dslkg2$v8u$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi...
>I propose that for their continuous crimes against humanity
> and AFT community, we would declare a global ban against Ty
> and Baron/Bajori, that starting from Monday, anyone who
> responses to any of their posts will be excluded from all
> the normal activities of the group. Comments?
>
>

I don't see their posts unless someone else responds to them.

--
Jette Goldie
jette [at] blueyonder.co.uk
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
("reply to" is spamblocked)

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #218552 ]

So, 12 Februar 2006 04:37

OMeallyMD

Robinsons wrote:

> Maybe you guys should try responding to many of the
> On-Topic Posts that languish on these newsgroups,
>
> Such as my post on Gollum's on-line British Medical Journal
> case study/diagnosis, immediately up-thread.
>
> (see Gollum's Medical Diagnosis)

Perhaps its because the article was discussed here ad nauseum when it
first came out over a year ago.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/browse_frm/th read/e3e563092e6cd3de/83d1d8485b56349f?q=gollum+diagnosis&am p;rnum=2#83d1d8485b56349f

http://snipurl.com/mh0v

Now, if you've got some more recent research....

;-)
--
Bill

"Wise fool"
Gandalf, THE TWO TOWERS
-- The Wise will remove 'se' to reply; the Foolish will not--

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #218555 ]

So, 12 Februar 2006 05:06

Baronjosefr

"Bill O'Meally" <OMeallyMD [at] wise.rr.com> wrote in message
news:04yHf.2301$xZ4.950 [at] tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Robinsons wrote:
>
>> Maybe you guys should try responding to many of the
>> On-Topic Posts that languish on these newsgroups,
>>
>> Such as my post on Gollum's on-line British Medical Journal
>> case study/diagnosis, immediately up-thread.
>>
>> (see Gollum's Medical Diagnosis)
>
> Perhaps its because the article was discussed here ad nauseum when it
> first came out over a year ago.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/browse_frm/th read/e3e563092e6cd3de/83d1d8485b56349f?q=gollum+diagnosis&am p;rnum=2#83d1d8485b56349f
>
> http://snipurl.com/mh0v
>
> Now, if you've got some more recent research....
>
> ;-)
> --
> Bill
>
> "Wise fool"
> Gandalf, THE TWO TOWERS
> -- The Wise will remove 'se' to reply; the Foolish will not--
>
>

The absolute best on-topic (sort of) thread I ever started was when I found
the article about Hobbit fashions hitting the runway in New York, with
pictures.That was awesome

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #218556 ]

So, 12 Februar 2006 05:37

Flame of the West

Morgil wrote:

> I propose that for their continuous crimes against humanity
> and AFT community, we would declare a global ban against Ty
> and Baron/Bajori, that starting from Monday, anyone who
> responses to any of their posts will be excluded from all
> the normal activities of the group. Comments?

Why stop there? Let's make *all* off-topic posting
a shunning offense. And that includes Star Wars,
fan-boy.

-- FotW

Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #218566 ]

So, 12 Februar 2006 10:05

Henriette

Morgil schreef:

> I propose that for their continuous crimes against humanity
> and AFT community, we would declare a global ban against Ty
> and Baron/Bajori, that starting from Monday, anyone who
> responses to any of their posts will be excluded from all
> the normal activities of the group. Comments?

No. That is not how democracy works. I can imagine you are fed up, but
then it is time for Jette's strategy: block some posters.

Out of the clashing of opinions the truth comes forth and therefore I
find especially Ty's and Sam's discussion's often very interesting. I
just wish Ty would not radiate such a lot of *hatred*.

Henriette

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #218569 ]

So, 12 Februar 2006 12:46

Taemon

Henriette wrote:

> Morgil schreef:
>> I propose that for their continuous crimes against humanity
>> and AFT community, we would declare a global ban against Ty
>> and Baron/Bajori, that starting from Monday, anyone who
>> responses to any of their posts will be excluded from all
>> the normal activities of the group. Comments?
> No. That is not how democracy works. I can imagine you are fed
> up, but then it is time for Jette's strategy: block some posters.

The sole reason I have Morgil blocked is because he is a trollfeeder.
To see such a call from him (via others) is a nice irony. I am
surprised there are apparently other people who haven't blocked the
Baron yet.

T.

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #218579 ]

So, 12 Februar 2006 16:33

"Henriette" <heldenib [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1139735121.620159.171610 [at] g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Morgil schreef:

> Out of the clashing of opinions the truth comes forth and therefore I
> find especially Ty's and Sam's discussion's often very interesting. I
> just wish Ty would not radiate such a lot of *hatred*.

You mistake disgust and contempt for hatred. Real hatred requires a great
deal of energy, so I have to ration it carefully.

Of course, the interesting thing is that few of my factual assertions about
Islam have been seriously challenged. I guess that's because I am saying
nothing that the Muslims themselves aren't saying. Despite this, a great
deal of bandwidth has been expended by folks who can't seem to challenge my
facts, yet whine about my motives.

They seem strangely unable to grasp the simple fact that my motives are
irrelevant to the accuracy of my facts or the logic of my assertions.

Also, I would think that all these purportedly "intelligent" and
"sophisticated" folks would know that ad hominem attacks are obvious and
strongly imply pathetic weakness. And of course, if you have to resort to
such tactics, doesn't that kinda suggest that your positions might not be as
strong as you'd like?

(Now, before anyone blows a gasket and accuses me of doing the same thing,
please note that insulting someone is only a logical fallacy if it's used in
lieu of a rebuttal. If a logical and reasonable rebuttal is *also* made,
it's just an insult.) For example:

Ty: "Islamic theology calls for the effective enslavement of women."

Morgil/Sam: "No it doesn't...you're just a racist!"

Ty: "And you are an idiot, because the Prophet clearly says that husbands
may beat their wives, that aduterous women (but not men) should be executed,
etc. Since Muslim theology holds the words and deeds of the Prophet to be
perfect for all time, it is absurd to suggest that these commandments are
somehow not binding on Muslims today."

The moronic retort by Morgil/Sam is an ad hominem attack and is a classic
logical fallacy. He failed to rebut my statement and tried to hide this
incompetence with an insult. My second statement is *not* an ad hominem
attack, because I *did* address the merits of their argument (such as it
was). The insult (or statement of fact, in my opinion) was not offered to
rebut his claim.

As far as I know, I have *never* failed to address a relevant and logical
argument made by someone else. I have refused to waste time on absurd
arguments ("sleep deprivation is just as bad as having your arms chopped
off"), or arguments that raise tangential issues I am uninterested in
discussing. But if I ever fail to answer a relevant and logical question,
just re-ask. Because I obviously overlooked it or misunderstood it.

And by the way, I feel no obligation to answer a question that assumes facts
not in evidence. "Do you still beat your wife?". And if I pose such a
question, I have no problem if the respondent says "that question assumes
that I have beaten my wife, and I haven't". Indeed, I prefer for folks to
simply infer that there are really two questions...have you beaten your
wife, and if so, do you still do it?

Of course, if the question assumes an *undisputed* fact, then it should be
answered. At the very least, the respondent should explain that the assumed
fact is *not* strongly supported by the evidence.

--Ty

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #218590 ]

So, 12 Februar 2006 19:18

Morgil

Flame of the West wrote:
> Morgil wrote:
>
>> I propose that for their continuous crimes against humanity
>> and AFT community, we would declare a global ban against Ty
>> and Baron/Bajori, that starting from Monday, anyone who
>> responses to any of their posts will be excluded from all
>> the normal activities of the group. Comments?
>
>
> Why stop there? Let's make *all* off-topic posting
> a shunning offense. And that includes Star Wars,
> fan-boy.

It has been suggested before, but the general response has
been that most people want AFT to be sort of like a pub
where Tolkien fans hang out to discuss all kinds of things,
including politics and movies. You are of course free to
pursue your idea if you feel it would be a better solution,
but I doubt you will get any more support then before.

Morgil

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #218591 ]

So, 12 Februar 2006 19:21

Morgil

Jette Goldie wrote:
> "Morgil" <morestelx [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:dslkg2$v8u$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi...
>
>>I propose that for their continuous crimes against humanity
>>and AFT community, we would declare a global ban against Ty
>>and Baron/Bajori, that starting from Monday, anyone who
>>responses to any of their posts will be excluded from all
>>the normal activities of the group. Comments?
>>
>>
>
>
> I don't see their posts unless someone else responds to them.

Do you then support the proposition that aims to
discourage people from responding to them anymore?

Morgil

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #218592 ]

So, 12 Februar 2006 19:28

Morgil

Taemon wrote:

> The sole reason I have Morgil blocked is because he is a trollfeeder.
> To see such a call from him (via others) is a nice irony.

How is it irony if I now see the "folly" of my ways, and
want to encourage others to make the same decision??

I am
> surprised there are apparently other people who haven't blocked the
> Baron yet.

So do you then support the proposition that would encourage
them to do so? To disagree after all your high horse posturing
would indeed be "nice irony".

Morgil

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #218595 ]

So, 12 Februar 2006 19:43

Morgil

Henriette wrote:
> Morgil schreef:
>
>
>>I propose that for their continuous crimes against humanity
>>and AFT community, we would declare a global ban against Ty
>>and Baron/Bajori, that starting from Monday, anyone who
>>responses to any of their posts will be excluded from all
>>the normal activities of the group. Comments?
>
>
> No. That is not how democracy works. I can imagine you are fed up, but
> then it is time for Jette's strategy: block some posters.

To block Ty and Baron, I would have to withdraw from all
political threads altogether, and I don't wanna let the
Usenet terrorists like them to determine what topics I
can or can not discuss while in here. To do that would
be admitting defeat.

And this *is* how democracy works. We are openly discussing
what to do with those who harass and terrorise everybody
else, and in the end everyone can make up their own mind
for themselves, and decide wheter they want to associate
with the trolls, or with the decent people of the group.

Democracy and Freedom of Speech do not mean that one
would also have to *listen* everything that is said.

Morgil

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #218599 ]

So, 12 Februar 2006 20:14

nopspam

Morgil <morestelx [at] hotmail.com> wrote in news:dsnvk7$1au$1
[at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi:

> Henriette wrote:
>> Morgil schreef:
>>
>>
>>>I propose that for their continuous crimes against humanity
>>>and AFT community, we would declare a global ban against Ty
>>>and Baron/Bajori, that starting from Monday, anyone who
>>>responses to any of their posts will be excluded from all
>>>the normal activities of the group. Comments?
>>
>>
>> No. That is not how democracy works. I can imagine you are fed up, but
>> then it is time for Jette's strategy: block some posters.
>
> To block Ty and Baron, I would have to withdraw from all
> political threads altogether, and I don't wanna let the
> Usenet terrorists like them to determine what topics I
> can or can not discuss while in here. To do that would
> be admitting defeat.

I'm confused by what you say here.

You suggest that we shouldn't respond to some people. But *you* cannot
block them because then you would have to refrain from political threads?
If I killfile a person, I will still see all the other posts in the
threads the killfiled person participates in. This would only be a
problem in the case where I actually would have wanted to respond to
something the killfiled person says. But this is what you say we
shouldn't do.

What am I missing here? Is your killfile working another way than mine?

--
Mästerkatten

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #218603 ]

So, 12 Februar 2006 20:51

Morgil

Mästerkatten wrote:
> Morgil <morestelx [at] hotmail.com> wrote in news:dsnvk7$1au$1
> [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi:

>>To block Ty and Baron, I would have to withdraw from all
>>political threads altogether, and I don't wanna let the
>>Usenet terrorists like them to determine what topics I
>>can or can not discuss while in here. To do that would
>>be admitting defeat.
>
>
> I'm confused by what you say here.
>
> You suggest that we shouldn't respond to some people. But *you* cannot
> block them because then you would have to refrain from political threads?

I'm hoping that none of us would have to block anyone.
I'm hoping that people would stop replying to Ty and
Baron, so that we might have a chance again to have
some reasonably civil political discussions, without
them disturbing. IF this is a problem only for me,
then there's nothing I can do about it. But if other
people feel the same way, this would be a way to make
it clear to those who want to continue such actions,
that we don't approve such behaviour and won't accept it.

Morgil

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #218604 ]

So, 12 Februar 2006 21:02

Jette Goldie

"Morgil" <morestelx [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dsnvk7$1au$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi...
> Henriette wrote:
>> Morgil schreef:
>>
>>
>>>I propose that for their continuous crimes against humanity
>>>and AFT community, we would declare a global ban against Ty
>>>and Baron/Bajori, that starting from Monday, anyone who
>>>responses to any of their posts will be excluded from all
>>>the normal activities of the group. Comments?
>>
>>
>> No. That is not how democracy works. I can imagine you are fed up, but
>> then it is time for Jette's strategy: block some posters.
>
> To block Ty and Baron, I would have to withdraw from all
> political threads altogether, and I don't wanna let the
> Usenet terrorists like them to determine what topics I
> can or can not discuss while in here. To do that would
> be admitting defeat.
>

So you suggest everyone else ignores them, but you're
planning to keep on responding?

Way to get *yourself* on a few killfiles, Morgil.

--
Jette Goldie
jette [at] blueyonder.co.uk
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
("reply to" is spamblocked)

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #218608 ]

So, 12 Februar 2006 21:33

Morgil

Jette Goldie wrote:
> "Morgil" <morestelx [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:dsnvk7$1au$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi...

>>To block Ty and Baron, I would have to withdraw from all
>>political threads altogether, and I don't wanna let the
>>Usenet terrorists like them to determine what topics I
>>can or can not discuss while in here. To do that would
>>be admitting defeat.
>>
>
>
> So you suggest everyone else ignores them, but you're
> planning to keep on responding?

What the hell are you talking about?? Obviously the same
rules apply to me as well. But if EVERYONE ELSE follows
the same principles, we might actually have a chance to
get the point through.

Morgil

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #218612 ]

So, 12 Februar 2006 22:15

Noh Phu Ling

> If I killfile a person, I will still see all the other posts in the
> threads the killfiled person participates in. This would only be a
> problem in the case where I actually would have wanted to respond to
> something the killfiled person says. But this is what you say we
> shouldn't do.
>
> What am I missing here? Is your killfile working another way than mine?
>

It all becomes much simpler if you print out the entire thread & paste
it onto a Moebius strip. Then, hold the Moebius strip up to a mirror.
Spin on your left heel. Bay at the moon. Post at will.

Pete H

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #218616 ]

So, 12 Februar 2006 22:34

nopspam

Morgil <morestelx [at] hotmail.com> wrote in
news:dso3k2$491$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi:

> Mästerkatten wrote:
>> Morgil <morestelx [at] hotmail.com> wrote in news:dsnvk7$1au$1
>> [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi:
>
>>>To block Ty and Baron, I would have to withdraw from all
>>>political threads altogether, and I don't wanna let the
>>>Usenet terrorists like them to determine what topics I
>>>can or can not discuss while in here. To do that would
>>>be admitting defeat.
>>
>>
>> I'm confused by what you say here.
>>
>> You suggest that we shouldn't respond to some people. But *you*
>> cannot block them because then you would have to refrain from
>> political threads?
>
> I'm hoping that none of us would have to block anyone.
> I'm hoping that people would stop replying to Ty and
> Baron, so that we might have a chance again to have
> some reasonably civil political discussions, without
> them disturbing. IF this is a problem only for me,
> then there's nothing I can do about it. But if other
> people feel the same way, this would be a way to make
> it clear to those who want to continue such actions,
> that we don't approve such behaviour and won't accept it.

OK. It's not a problem to me, because I've "blocked" every participant I
consider disturbing, obnoxious or simply an "a.f.t. village idiot" a long
time ago. I don't see much of their posts and hence I don't reply to them
either. Works for me, but others might have different views.

--
Mästerkatten

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #218617 ]

So, 12 Februar 2006 22:37

nopspam

pmhilton <pmhilton [at] mfx.net> wrote in news:43EFA56C.8090201 [at] mfx.net:

>
>> If I killfile a person, I will still see all the other posts in the
>> threads the killfiled person participates in. This would only be a
>> problem in the case where I actually would have wanted to respond to
>> something the killfiled person says. But this is what you say we
>> shouldn't do.
>>
>> What am I missing here? Is your killfile working another way than mine?
>>
>
> It all becomes much simpler if you print out the entire thread & paste
> it onto a Moebius strip. Then, hold the Moebius strip up to a mirror.
> Spin on your left heel. Bay at the moon. Post at will.

LOL!

--
Mästerkatten

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #218618 ]

So, 12 Februar 2006 22:47

Baronjosefr

"Morgil" <morestelx [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dso3k2$491$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi...
> Mästerkatten wrote:
>> Morgil <morestelx [at] hotmail.com> wrote in news:dsnvk7$1au$1
>> [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi:
>
>>>To block Ty and Baron, I would have to withdraw from all
>>>political threads altogether, and I don't wanna let the
>>>Usenet terrorists like them to determine what topics I
>>>can or can not discuss while in here. To do that would
>>>be admitting defeat.
>>
>>
>> I'm confused by what you say here.
>>
>> You suggest that we shouldn't respond to some people. But *you* cannot
>> block them because then you would have to refrain from political threads?
>
> I'm hoping that none of us would have to block anyone.
> I'm hoping that people would stop replying to Ty and
> Baron

Why do you get sop upset when you start attacking people, and they start
defending themselves? I knew your hypocrisy wqas rampant but I didn't know
until now that it was boundless.

, so that we might have a chance again to have
> some reasonably civil political discussions, without
> them disturbing. IF this is a problem only for me,
> then there's nothing I can do about it. But if other
> people feel the same way, this would be a way to make
> it clear to those who want to continue such actions,
> that we don't approve such behaviour and won't accept it.
>
> Morgil

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #218624 ]

Mo, 13 Februar 2006 00:06

"Morgil" <morestelx [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dsnvk7$1au$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi...

> Democracy and Freedom of Speech do not mean that one
> would also have to *listen* everything that is said.

Has anyone said otherwise?

The issue isn't whether you have a right to ignore someone -- of course you
do. But I do question your motives in doing so *after* you proved unable to
respond effectively to arguments you disagree with.

--Ty

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #218627 ]

Mo, 13 Februar 2006 00:06

"Mästerkatten" <nopspam [at] nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9768CDF1AA3EA19283305 [at] 130.133.1.4...
> Morgil <morestelx [at] hotmail.com> wrote in news:dsnvk7$1au$1

> You suggest that we shouldn't respond to some people. But *you* cannot
> block them because then you would have to refrain from political threads?
> If I killfile a person, I will still see all the other posts in the
> threads the killfiled person participates in. This would only be a
> problem in the case where I actually would have wanted to respond to
> something the killfiled person says. But this is what you say we
> shouldn't do.

> What am I missing here? Is your killfile working another way than mine?

No. Morgil can killfile anyone any time. The problem is that while he wants
to partake in political discussions, he wants everyone to exclude those
folks he disagrees with. In other words, Morgil is a gutless twit who cannot
defend his ridiculous views. He's apparently so desparate that all he can
think of is to call for the mass plonking of folks he disagrees with. Sad,
really.

--Ty

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #218632 ]

Mo, 13 Februar 2006 07:38

Flame of the West

Morgil wrote:

> And this *is* how democracy works. We are openly discussing
> what to do with those who harass and terrorise everybody
> else, and in the end everyone can make up their own mind
> for themselves, and decide wheter they want to associate
> with the trolls, or with the decent people of the group.

Except that you want to make that decision for
the rest of us and back it up by the group
shunning anyone who doesn't do it your way.
Who the heck are you to tell Sam's the Little Guy
that he may not debate Ty? This desire of yours
to play the little dictator tells me more about
the leftist mindset than all the political threads
in the world.

-- FotW

Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #218633 ]

Mo, 13 Februar 2006 07:39

Flame of the West

Mästerkatten wrote:

> What am I missing here? Is your killfile working another way than mine?

No, but his brain is. ;-)

-- FotW

Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #218634 ]

Mo, 13 Februar 2006 08:59

Taemon

Flame of the West wrote:

> This desire of yours
> to play the little dictator tells me more about
> the leftist mindset than all the political threads
> in the world.

Hey, ho! I'm about as leftist as they come, and I would never try such
a thing. Please don't generalise, Flame!

T.

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #224368 ]

Mo, 13 Februar 2006 13:26

Morgil

Flame of the West wrote:
> Morgil wrote:
>
>> And this *is* how democracy works. We are openly discussing
>> what to do with those who harass and terrorise everybody
>> else, and in the end everyone can make up their own mind
>> for themselves, and decide wheter they want to associate
>> with the trolls, or with the decent people of the group.
>
>
> Except that you want to make that decision for
> the rest of us and back it up by the group
> shunning anyone who doesn't do it your way.

Try to deal with reality for once in your life, instead
of your usual strawmen. I'm not trying to make decisions
for anyone. I made it very clear that I was just making
a *proposition*. It's up to group to decide wheter or
not they want to accept it.

> Who the heck are you to tell Sam's the Little Guy
> that he may not debate Ty? This desire of yours
> to play the little dictator tells me more about
> the leftist mindset than all the political threads
> in the world.

Spare us from your hypocritical crap. Everyone here
knows you're the worst troll supporter in this group.
You think Ty is a standup American just defending his
country, and you find it "amusing" to spur on trolls
into abusing other posters. So it is a bit too late
for you to pretend to be a nice guy in this.

Morgil

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #224369 ]

Mo, 13 Februar 2006 13:31

Morgil

Taemon wrote:
> Flame of the West wrote:
>
>
>>This desire of yours
>>to play the little dictator tells me more about
>>the leftist mindset than all the political threads
>>in the world.
>
>
> Hey, ho! I'm about as leftist as they come, and I would never try such
> a thing. Please don't generalise, Flame!

"Hey, ho!" How is it that you make a big deal of
killfiling me from being a "trollfeder", while
at the same time you voice your approval for
Flame, who is the worst and most repentless
troll-supporter of the group?? How hypocrite
can you get? "Nice irony" indeed...

Morgil

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #224371 ]

Mo, 13 Februar 2006 14:31

nopspam

Morgil <morestelx [at] hotmail.com> wrote in news:dspttk$1qq$1
[at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi:

[snip]

> for anyone. I made it very clear that I was just making
> a *proposition*. It's up to group to decide wheter or
> not they want to accept it.

That's how I understood it too. if I may take the opportunity to make
myself clear.

[snip]
> You think Ty is a standup American just defending his
> country,

[snip]

Is he really an American? Some year ago one of his opponents referred to
him as an Australian, and I didn't see the usual ripost to that.

--
Mästerkatten

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #224375 ]

Mo, 13 Februar 2006 16:45

"Mästerkatten" <nopspam [at] nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns976993C95F3C19283305 [at] 130.133.1.4...
> Morgil <morestelx [at] hotmail.com> wrote in news:dspttk$1qq$1

> Is he really an American? Some year ago one of his opponents referred to
> him as an Australian, and I didn't see the usual ripost to that.

Must've missed it. In any case, since it was obviously intended as a
compliment, no riposte would have occurred.

I am a Texan, which makes me an American as well.

Of course, you should never ask a man if he's from Texas. If he is, he'll
tell you. If he isn't, well, there's no reason to embarrass him :-)

--Ty

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #224391 ]

Di, 14 Februar 2006 01:26

Flame of the West

Morgil wrote:

> Everyone here
> knows you're the worst troll supporter in this group.

Proof?

> You think Ty is a standup American just defending his
> country,

Proof?

> and you find it "amusing" to spur on trolls
> into abusing other posters.

In fact I skip the back-and-forth threads
involving them because I find mutual abuse
threads boring. You seem to like them OTOH.

> So it is a bit too late
> for you to pretend to be a nice guy in this.

So you admit you're being the bad guy here?

-- FotW

Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #224392 ]

Di, 14 Februar 2006 01:28

Flame of the West

Morgil wrote:

> "Hey, ho!" How is it that you make a big deal of
> killfiling me from being a "trollfeder", while
> at the same time you voice your approval for
> Flame, who is the worst and most repentless
> troll-supporter of the group?? How hypocrite
> can you get? "Nice irony" indeed...

Are you trying to get *me* shunned now? You
really are quite the sandbox Napoleon, aren't you?

-- FotW

Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #224395 ]

Di, 14 Februar 2006 03:59

Morgil

Flame of the West wrote:
> Morgil wrote:
>
>> Everyone here
>> knows you're the worst troll supporter in this group.
>
>
> Proof?

Do you deny the numerous times you've jumped to defend
Ty or Baron, when they been critisized for trolling?
Try to count how many times you have accused different
people that they label those two as trolls just because
they disagree with them. There is proof, don't worry.

>> You think Ty is a standup American just defending his
>> country,
>
>
> Proof?

"Well, this time his[O'Neill] scattershot political
spamming has gotten the attention of someone from
alt.dune who's not taking it without a fight. And
like the U.S. after 9/11, he's not using his own NG
as the battleground but the attacker's home NG."

>> and you find it "amusing" to spur on trolls
>> into abusing other posters.
>
>
> In fact I skip the back-and-forth threads
> involving them because I find mutual abuse
> threads boring. You seem to like them OTOH.

I notice you don't ask "proof" for this, probably
because that incident is still fresh in your mind.

>> So it is a bit too late
>> for you to pretend to be a nice guy in this.
>
>
> So you admit you're being the bad guy here?

You would like to make it look like that, don't you,
with your "sandbox Napoleon" and "little dictator"
slurs. Do we need any *more* proof that you're just
a spineless troll-supporter?

Morgil

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #224396 ]

Di, 14 Februar 2006 04:08

Morgil

Mästerkatten wrote:
> Morgil <morestelx [at] hotmail.com> wrote in news:dspttk$1qq$1
> [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi:

>>You think Ty is a standup American just defending his
>>country,
>
>
> [snip]
>
> Is he really an American? Some year ago one of his opponents referred to
> him as an Australian, and I didn't see the usual ripost to that.

It does indeed seem that he's from Texas:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/msg/37cd6fed4 0f36e50

Morgil

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #224397 ]

Di, 14 Februar 2006 04:51

Flame of the West

Morgil wrote:

> Try to count how many times you have accused different
> people that they label those two as trolls just because
> they disagree with them.

The only one who does that is *you*. I don't know
how many times I've had to point it out, but there
are no "different people", just you.

>>> You think Ty is a standup American just defending his
>>> country,
>>
>> Proof?
>
> "Well, this time his[O'Neill] scattershot political
> spamming has gotten the attention of someone from
> alt.dune who's not taking it without a fight. And
> like the U.S. after 9/11, he's not using his own NG
> as the battleground but the attacker's home NG."

How does quoting Ty prove what I think about him?

-- FotW

Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #224399 ]

Di, 14 Februar 2006 06:13

Morgil

Flame of the West wrote:
> Morgil wrote:
>
>> Try to count how many times you have accused different
>> people that they label those two as trolls just because
>> they disagree with them.
>
>
> The only one who does that is *you*. I don't know
> how many times I've had to point it out, but there
> are no "different people", just you.

Thank you for admitting your guilt - and though
it's aside the point, there have been others.

>>>> You think Ty is a standup American just defending his
>>>> country,
>>>
>>>
>>> Proof?
>>
>>
>> "Well, this time his[O'Neill] scattershot political
>> spamming has gotten the attention of someone from
>> alt.dune who's not taking it without a fight. And
>> like the U.S. after 9/11, he's not using his own NG
>> as the battleground but the attacker's home NG."
>
>
> How does quoting Ty prove what I think about him?

I'm afraid I was quoting you.

Morgil

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #224402 ]

Di, 14 Februar 2006 07:15

Henriette

Morgil schreef:

> Henriette wrote:
> > Morgil schreef:
> >
> >>I propose that for their continuous crimes against humanity
> >>and AFT community, we would declare a global ban against Ty
> >>and Baron/Bajori, that starting from Monday, anyone who
> >>responses to any of their posts will be excluded from all
> >>the normal activities of the group. Comments?
> >
> > No. That is not how democracy works. I can imagine you are fed up, but
> > then it is time for Jette's strategy: block some posters.
>
> To block Ty and Baron, I would have to withdraw from all
> political threads altogether, and I don't wanna let the
> Usenet terrorists like them to determine what topics I
> can or can not discuss while in here. To do that would
> be admitting defeat.
>
> And this *is* how democracy works. We are openly discussing
> what to do with those who harass and terrorise everybody
> else, and in the end everyone can make up their own mind
> for themselves, and decide wheter they want to associate
> with the trolls, or with the decent people of the group.
>
> Democracy and Freedom of Speech do not mean that one
> would also have to *listen* everything that is said.
>
Then let's put it this way. What I don't like about your proposition is
the included threat (anyone who replies to any of Ty/Baron's posts will
be excluded from all the normal activities of the group). Apart from
that you are right: it's a democratic (and understandable) proposition.
Still, my answer would be no. I am certain Ty and the Baron (why not
Tar-Elenion?) are no trolls. Many people everywhere think the way they
do, and their numbers are increasing. I think it is of vital importance
their POV's are known, investigated, and challenged. Unfortunately,
although IMO you seriously have, as have many others (recently Sam,
Raven, Hasan, and with good arguments), their convictions have not
moved an inch, and they even don't feel they've been answered. Too bad.
I give up for the moment. If this is a pub, I'm moving to another
table, where other matters of importance or matters of interest
(Tolkien?) are being discussed, or where I can have some fun after a
hard day's work. But everyone who wants to move to the table of Baron
and Ty, can and should give it a go and deserves our admiration.

Henriette

Re: Criminal Trolls on AFT [message #224403 ]

Di, 14 Februar 2006 15:12

"Henriette" <heldenib [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1139897701.130872.259830 [at] z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

> Still, my answer would be no. I am certain Ty and the Baron (why not
> Tar-Elenion?) are no trolls. Many people everywhere think the way they
> do, and their numbers are increasing. I think it is of vital importance
> their POV's are known, investigated, and challenged. Unfortunately,
> although IMO you seriously have, as have many others (recently Sam,
> Raven, Hasan, and with good arguments)

As I noted earlier, I do not intentionally ignore a relevant, reasonable
argument. In the case of Sam, he refuses to answer my questions, tells
outright lies about what I've said, refuses to back up his claims with
proof, and tries to introduce arguments that range from irrelevant to
patently absurd. I gave him several chances to produce evidence and answer
my questions and he refused. Now, perhaps I've overlooked something, but I
don't see any point in wasting time on an idiot like that. Maybe you can
explain to me why I should bother...

As for the Hasan, well, he has tried to answer *some* of my points.
Unfortunately, he only answered about 1/3 of my questions, then stopped. All
I can do is point this out and hope that he will respond. I have responded
reasonable to the relevant arguments he's made, I think.

IIRC, Raven's main disagreement was my assertion that Islam as an ideology
is incompatible with Western liberal democracy and that Islam cannot be
considered a "Religion of Peace" if we use the definition of "peace" widely
accepted by sane people. Unfortunately, his argument boiled down to a
single, rather dubious claim:

Islam is a "peaceful" religion because a majority of Muslims are peaceful.

As I noted, even if we assume the accuracy of this claim, it does not make
the case that Islam is a "peaceful" ideology. I am sure that one could make
the argument that most Nazis didn't murder anyone -- actually postwar
Germans made that exact argument. But I don't see how any sane person could
argue that this means that Nazism is a "peaceful" ideology. The same with
the Ku Klux Klan and almost any other obviously murderous ideology.

Unfortunately, neither Raven nor anyone else was able to distinguish the two
cases. They didn't even try, which implies to me that they had no effective
rebuttal.

In addition, I have produced numerous quotes and cites to the Koran,
Hadiths, key Islamic commentary and contemporary statements from Muslim
leaders.

All I get is some version of the "no true Scotsman" fallacy, or a bald
allegation that the statements are somehow "out of context". When pressed,
no one seems to be able to show us *how* the statements are out of context.

All Morgil has done is stamp his little feet, cry and whine that I'm a
troll. And judging from the reactions of others, he does this fairly often
when faced with arguments he doesn't like but can't rebut.

> their convictions have not
> moved an inch, and they even don't feel they've been answered. Too bad.

As I said, I will answer *any* relevant, rational argument. So feel free to
identify the relevant arguments you feel I have not addressed.

--Ty

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