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Science Fiction » alt.startrek » Trek's One Flaw
| Trek's One Flaw [message #217092] |
Mo, 13 Februar 2006 05:37 |
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Attending WonderCon's panel today, a certain thought crossed my mind --
but it didn't get spoken during the q&a session. In regards to the
cinematic "dumping" of the original crew, in favor of the next
generation, the story has been left with a major narrative flaw. Never
in film history has a successful film like The Undiscovered Country --
a movie that by all rights should spawn another sequel -- led to the
sacking of its popular cast of characters.
But if there is one true flaw in this fictional narrative, it is that
the original crew of the enterprise, after learning from Guinan that
their Captain had survived yet another fall into interspace, are not
shown to respond in any manner whatsoever. After following these
characters for nearly thirty years, the fan audience is left to assume
that no rescue attempt was even considered, despite their having
overcome similar situations many times in the past.
Did this almost-archetypal crew simply yawn and go their separate ways,
as the *scary* energy ribbon continued its slow progress across the
galaxy?
It's hard to imagine that any narrative should contain such a glaringly
illogical story point; yet that is exactly the current state of Star
Trek. And we may all have heard the old adage about how a "house
divided against itself cannot stand" -- well, that could just be where
it stands at this point. If not even the original series is true to its
own ideals, how can the rest be hoped to last?
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220351 ] |
Mo, 13 Februar 2006 12:40 |
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kevin.kirby [at] gmail.com wrote:
> Attending WonderCon's panel today, a certain thought crossed my mind
> -- but it didn't get spoken during the q&a session. In regards to the
> cinematic "dumping" of the original crew, in favor of the next
> generation, the story has been left with a major narrative flaw. Never
> in film history has a successful film like The Undiscovered Country --
> a movie that by all rights should spawn another sequel -- led to the
> sacking of its popular cast of characters.
>
> But if there is one true flaw in this fictional narrative, it is that
> the original crew of the enterprise, after learning from Guinan that
> their Captain had survived yet another fall into interspace, are not
> shown to respond in any manner whatsoever. After following these
> characters for nearly thirty years, the fan audience is left to assume
> that no rescue attempt was even considered, despite their having
> overcome similar situations many times in the past.
>
You are referring to Generations?
The original crew learned no such thing from Guinan. They hardly interacted.
They presumed Kirk was *killed* in the explosion on the E-B. They had no
detailed knowledge on the Nexus whatsoever. And besides the Nexus can't
really be compared to the interspace were the Defiant was being sucked in.
<snip>
--
Wouter Valentijn
www.wouter.cc
www.nksf.nl
www.zeppodunsel.nl
liam=mail
"The world that denies thee, thou inhabit.
The peace that ignores thee, thou corrupt.
Chaos. I remain, as ever, thy faithful, degenerate son."
Ethan Rayne, 'Halloween' (Buffy The Vampire Slayer)
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220353 ] |
Mo, 13 Februar 2006 13:02 |
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Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220354 ] |
Mo, 13 Februar 2006 15:03 |
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"<snip>
> You are referring to Generations?
> The original crew learned no such thing from Guinan. They hardly
interacted.
> They presumed Kirk was *killed* in the explosion on the E-B. They had no
> detailed knowledge on the Nexus whatsoever. And besides the Nexus can't
> really be compared to the interspace were the Defiant was being sucked in.
>
> <snip>
Wouter.. as much as I disagree with the original poster in his assumption
that Guinan told them that Kirk was "sucked" into the nexus... I do agree
with him about one major thingy... The crew would have at least explored
what happened to him.
It was disappointing to me too, that they didnt have at least one scene in
which there was some discussion of what happened to Kirk and then some
period of "mourning" him. There were so many times that a crew member was
"dead" and than rescued, that there should have been at least some
discussion. I prefer to believe that there was a "rescue" or "hypothetical
possibility" discussion but they just didnt show it. In fact there would
have had to have been...since a "hull breach" would have necessitated a
major Starfleet investigation (with Spock as a participant)
>
> --
> Wouter Valentijn
>
> www.wouter.cc
> www.nksf.nl
> www.zeppodunsel.nl
> liam=mail
>
> "The world that denies thee, thou inhabit.
> The peace that ignores thee, thou corrupt.
> Chaos. I remain, as ever, thy faithful, degenerate son."
>
> Ethan Rayne, 'Halloween' (Buffy The Vampire Slayer)
>
>
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220355 ] |
Mo, 13 Februar 2006 19:28 |
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OK, from what I remember of Generations, Scotty, Chekov and Harriman went to
where Kirk was and saw 1. A big gaping hole in the hull and 2. No Kirk. The
one conceivable flaw in all this MIGHT be a lack of a body, but I think,
Guinan aside, the general consensus was that Kirk bought it on the
Enterprise B.<kevin.kirby [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1139805449.469763.253450 [at] g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Attending WonderCon's panel today, a certain thought crossed my mind --
> but it didn't get spoken during the q&a session. In regards to the
> cinematic "dumping" of the original crew, in favor of the next
> generation, the story has been left with a major narrative flaw. Never
> in film history has a successful film like The Undiscovered Country --
> a movie that by all rights should spawn another sequel -- led to the
> sacking of its popular cast of characters.
>
> But if there is one true flaw in this fictional narrative, it is that
> the original crew of the enterprise, after learning from Guinan that
> their Captain had survived yet another fall into interspace, are not
> shown to respond in any manner whatsoever. After following these
> characters for nearly thirty years, the fan audience is left to assume
> that no rescue attempt was even considered, despite their having
> overcome similar situations many times in the past.
>
> Did this almost-archetypal crew simply yawn and go their separate ways,
> as the *scary* energy ribbon continued its slow progress across the
> galaxy?
>
> It's hard to imagine that any narrative should contain such a glaringly
> illogical story point; yet that is exactly the current state of Star
> Trek. And we may all have heard the old adage about how a "house
> divided against itself cannot stand" -- well, that could just be where
> it stands at this point. If not even the original series is true to its
> own ideals, how can the rest be hoped to last?
>
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220356 ] |
Mo, 13 Februar 2006 20:05 |
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advance scout wrote:
> "<snip>
>> You are referring to Generations?
>> The original crew learned no such thing from Guinan. They hardly
>> interacted. They presumed Kirk was *killed* in the explosion on the
>> E-B. They had no detailed knowledge on the Nexus whatsoever. And
>> besides the Nexus can't really be compared to the interspace were
>> the Defiant was being sucked in.
>>
>> <snip>
>
> Wouter.. as much as I disagree with the original poster in his
> assumption that Guinan told them that Kirk was "sucked" into the
> nexus... I do agree with him about one major thingy... The crew
> would have at least explored what happened to him.
>
> It was disappointing to me too, that they didnt have at least one
> scene in which there was some discussion of what happened to Kirk and
> then some period of "mourning" him. There were so many times that
> a crew member was "dead" and than rescued, that there should have
> been at least some discussion. I prefer to believe that there was a
> "rescue" or "hypothetical possibility" discussion but they just didnt
> show it. In fact there would have had to have been...since a "hull
> breach" would have necessitated a major Starfleet investigation
> (with Spock as a participant)
>
>
So, you would have liked a scene were they actually concluded that Kirk
absolutely died in the explosion?
I don't think the producers would have gone for such a thing since this was
mainly a TNG vehicle. If they had dwelled longer in the TOS era it would
have taken the main focus away from the TNG characters. In stead they
established were Kirk was at the moment of the explosion, and then showing
that that location was now one big gaping hole. The audience knew instantly
that moment that Kirk was gone for good. Only later on as the story advances
we learn the truth.
Would I personally have liked to see the rest of the crew (including Spock,
McCoy, Uhura and Sulu) come together and mourn Kirk? Yeah.
And it would even have been better if the entire TOS crew had been gathered
at the launch of the E-B, and that Kirk would not have been sucked into the
Nexus. That way you could still have the passing of the ST franchise movie
torch, plus a better ending for Kirk.
--
Wouter Valentijn
www.wouter.cc
www.nksf.nl
www.zeppodunsel.nl
liam=mail
"The world that denies thee, thou inhabit.
The peace that ignores thee, thou corrupt.
Chaos. I remain, as ever, thy faithful, degenerate son."
Ethan Rayne, 'Halloween' (Buffy The Vampire Slayer)
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220357 ] |
Mo, 13 Februar 2006 20:21 |
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Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220358 ] |
Mo, 13 Februar 2006 20:36 |
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The Generations novel has the part with Guinan telling Chekov about
"his friend" being still alive.
It is true that a book detail doesn't necessarily make something part
the story, but the question is whether the scene was ever scripted --
or if it was just added by the novelist.
Also, the book refers to the nexus as an interspatial ribbon.
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220371 ] |
Di, 14 Februar 2006 00:21 |
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kevin.kirby [at] gmail.com wrote:
> The Generations novel has the part with Guinan telling Chekov about
> "his friend" being still alive.
>
> It is true that a book detail doesn't necessarily make something part
> the story, but the question is whether the scene was ever scripted --
> or if it was just added by the novelist.
>
> Also, the book refers to the nexus as an interspatial ribbon.
Only what eventually appears on screen is canon.
The exceptions being most of TAS (only parts of 'Yester Year' are canon) and
two Jeri Taylor novels are considered canon by the studio (in all likelihood
only those parts not contradicted by on screen material).
It's the Paramount policy.
--
Wouter Valentijn
www.wouter.cc
www.nksf.nl
www.zeppodunsel.nl
liam=mail
"The world that denies thee, thou inhabit.
The peace that ignores thee, thou corrupt.
Chaos. I remain, as ever, thy faithful, degenerate son."
Ethan Rayne, 'Halloween' (Buffy The Vampire Slayer)
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220372 ] |
Di, 14 Februar 2006 00:23 |
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Neon Knight wrote:
> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam [at] valentijn.nu> wrote in
> news:43f0d892$0$11080$e4fe514c [at] news.xs4all.nl:
>
>> Would I personally have liked to see the rest of the crew
>> (including Spock, McCoy, Uhura and Sulu) come together and mourn
>> Kirk? Yeah.
>
> Supposedly, there was a mourning scene filmed with Checkov (no doubt a
> screaming, wailing scene) but it was cut.
And it's not on the DVD (or in the deleted scenes section thereof)?
--
Wouter Valentijn
www.wouter.cc
www.nksf.nl
www.zeppodunsel.nl
liam=mail
"The world that denies thee, thou inhabit.
The peace that ignores thee, thou corrupt.
Chaos. I remain, as ever, thy faithful, degenerate son."
Ethan Rayne, 'Halloween' (Buffy The Vampire Slayer)
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220373 ] |
Di, 14 Februar 2006 00:32 |
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Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220376 ] |
Di, 14 Februar 2006 02:42 |
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<kevin.kirby [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1139805449.469763.253450 [at] g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Attending WonderCon's panel today, a certain thought crossed my mind --
> but it didn't get spoken during the q&a session. In regards to the
> cinematic "dumping" of the original crew, in favor of the next
> generation, the story has been left with a major narrative flaw. Never
> in film history has a successful film like The Undiscovered Country --
> a movie that by all rights should spawn another sequel -- led to the
> sacking of its popular cast of characters.
>
> But if there is one true flaw in this fictional narrative, it is that
> the original crew of the enterprise, after learning from Guinan that
> their Captain had survived yet another fall into interspace, are not
> shown to respond in any manner whatsoever. After following these
> characters for nearly thirty years, the fan audience is left to assume
> that no rescue attempt was even considered, despite their having
> overcome similar situations many times in the past.
>
> Did this almost-archetypal crew simply yawn and go their separate ways,
> as the *scary* energy ribbon continued its slow progress across the
> galaxy?
>
> It's hard to imagine that any narrative should contain such a glaringly
> illogical story point; yet that is exactly the current state of Star
> Trek. And we may all have heard the old adage about how a "house
> divided against itself cannot stand" -- well, that could just be where
> it stands at this point. If not even the original series is true to its
> own ideals, how can the rest be hoped to last?
>
The original crew was just too old. The acting in the movies, aside from
Shatner & Nimoy, was just plain awful. TV actors are generally a cut below
the big screen folks anyway. Chekov, Sulu, Ohura, Scotty, basically are a
very poor supporting cast for anyone. Their time was over, not that the TNG
team was much better, other than Patrick Stewart. Have you noticed that
they always cast a big name as a villain to fill the gap? McDowell, Kahn
etc. You'd think that 7 original crew members could easily fill a 2 hour
movie if they were really good actors.
--
"Don't get me wrong... I'm SNARKY"
JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220377 ] |
Di, 14 Februar 2006 03:22 |
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kevin.kirby [at] gmail.com wrote:
> Did this almost-archetypal crew simply yawn and go their separate ways,
> as the *scary* energy ribbon continued its slow progress across the
> galaxy?
Kirk was gone. He was a phenomenal leader. Without him, they lost
their compass and their motivation.
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220378 ] |
Di, 14 Februar 2006 03:23 |
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advance scout wrote:
> It was disappointing to me too, that they didnt have at least one scene in
> which there was some discussion of what happened to Kirk and then some
> period of "mourning" him. There were so many times that a crew member was
> "dead" and than rescued, that there should have been at least some
> discussion.
I totally agree.
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220379 ] |
Di, 14 Februar 2006 03:24 |
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Benjamin Pavsner wrote:
> OK, from what I remember of Generations, Scotty, Chekov and Harriman went to
> where Kirk was and saw 1. A big gaping hole in the hull and 2. No Kirk. The
> one conceivable flaw in all this MIGHT be a lack of a body, but I think,
> Guinan aside, the general consensus was that Kirk bought it on the
> Enterprise B.
I concur.
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220380 ] |
Di, 14 Februar 2006 03:24 |
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Wouter Valentijn wrote:
> Would I personally have liked to see the rest of the crew (including Spock,
> McCoy, Uhura and Sulu) come together and mourn Kirk? Yeah.
Yeah. Me too.
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220382 ] |
Di, 14 Februar 2006 13:05 |
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Neon Knight wrote:
> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam [at] valentijn.nu> wrote in news:dsr4e2$oda$1
> [at] news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl:
>
>
>> And it's not on the DVD (or in the deleted scenes section thereof)?
>
> I haven't seen it. Walter Koenig himself mentioned it (in an
> interview), he said he thought it was one of his better Trek moments
> and was upset that it didn't make it onto the screen.
I've heard of several cases where scenes that could have been nice ended up
on the cutting room floor. A pity.
--
Wouter Valentijn
www.wouter.cc
www.nksf.nl
www.zeppodunsel.nl
liam=mail
"The world that denies thee, thou inhabit.
The peace that ignores thee, thou corrupt.
Chaos. I remain, as ever, thy faithful, degenerate son."
Ethan Rayne, 'Halloween' (Buffy The Vampire Slayer)
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220384 ] |
Di, 14 Februar 2006 13:21 |
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Guinan rarely gives out information that will be anything less than
crucial to peoples survival. Why should she explain the little details
when starfleets (military) brainwashed crew should be able to figure it
out themselves?
--
Tim
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
Tim's Profile: http://www.coolscifi.com/forums/member.php?userid=161
View this thread: http://www.coolscifi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29632
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220390 ] |
Di, 14 Februar 2006 20:31 |
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IMO, it would still be possible to fit a TOS film into the years
following Generations; one in which Kirk (or Mirror-Jim) is rescued,
while the Federation still believes him to be gone. The producers'
mind-set, perhaps, seems to be that any new movie must also include the
Next Generation -- as though Star Trek's creative force couldn't
possibly alternate between several different time frames.
Why not come out with two or three different movies within a short
time, as has happened recently on several occasions with blockbuster
trilogies?
My pet script would show a ten-year attempt by Chekov to employ
transportion through the energy ribbon; with the end result of beaming
out an enraged anti-Kirk, who escapes to cause havok, etc. A production
like this could wind up as a totally supercharged, high-octane affair
involving the Romulans, who manage to hire him as a covert operative to
use against the Federation President. Nobody but Spock can stop him,
and since there's no returning him to the Mirror Universe ... he gets a
mind meld.
The Tomed Incident, through the eyes of anti-Kirk? Well, anyway, it's
important to remember that Undiscovered Country was successful at the
box office, while Nemesis wasn't even average. A balance between the
two timelines would clearly favor a new TOS plot over an NG followup.
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw (Paramount) [message #220398 ] |
Di, 14 Februar 2006 22:34 |
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"Wouter Valentijn" <liam [at] valentijn.nu> wrote in message
news:dsr4a9$n81$1 [at] news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
> Only what eventually appears on screen is canon.
>
> It's the Paramount policy.
Speaking of Paramount.
Did I hear something pertaining to the changes in the operation of
the studios? Like, CBS was splitting up their holdings, PE was going
to be over the motion pictures and some other division was going to
be in charge of small screen productions?
UPN and WB were going to merge?
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw (Paramount) [message #220400 ] |
Di, 14 Februar 2006 23:16 |
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"VernonT" <hoopestv [at] silverstar.com> wrote in message
news:11v4j7ls2588n59 [at] corp.supernews.com...
> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam [at] valentijn.nu> wrote in message
> news:dsr4a9$n81$1 [at] news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
> > Only what eventually appears on screen is canon.
> >
> > It's the Paramount policy.
>
>
> Speaking of Paramount.
> Did I hear something pertaining to the changes in the operation of
> the studios? Like, CBS was splitting up their holdings, PE was going
> to be over the motion pictures and some other division was going to
> be in charge of small screen productions?
google is your friend
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/14/national/main70187 5_page2.shtml
> UPN and WB were going to merge?
http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/24/news/companies/cbs_warner/?c nn=yes
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-012406tv_lat,1,1860147.st ory?coll=la-headlines-business&ctrack=1&cset=true
--
Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
http://members.shaw.ca/iksbloodoath
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
"So say we all!"
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220401 ] |
Mi, 15 Februar 2006 01:46 |
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Quoth Neon Knight:
: Supposedly, there was a mourning scene filmed with Checkov (no doubt a
: screaming, wailing scene) but it was cut.
Pavel, not Anton.
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw (Paramount) [message #220406 ] |
Mi, 15 Februar 2006 13:11 |
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Kweeg wrote:
> "VernonT" <hoopestv [at] silverstar.com> wrote in message
> news:11v4j7ls2588n59 [at] corp.supernews.com...
>> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam [at] valentijn.nu> wrote in message
>> news:dsr4a9$n81$1 [at] news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
>>> Only what eventually appears on screen is canon.
>>>
>>> It's the Paramount policy.
>>
>>
>> Speaking of Paramount.
>> Did I hear something pertaining to the changes in the operation of
>> the studios? Like, CBS was splitting up their holdings, PE was going
>> to be over the motion pictures and some other division was going to
>> be in charge of small screen productions?
>
> google is your friend
> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/14/national/main70187 5_page2.shtml
>
>
>> UPN and WB were going to merge?
>
> http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/24/news/companies/cbs_warner/?c nn=yes
>
> http://www.latimes.com/business/la-012406tv_lat,1,1860147.st ory?coll=la-headlines-business&ctrack=1&cset=true
Hmm... Is this a good thing?
I'm also a fan of 'Buffy The Vampire Slayer' and when the WB no longer
carried it the show went over to UPN. If they had been *one* network in
those days it might have stopped at just five seasons.
It might diminish shows chances for survival.
--
Wouter Valentijn
www.wouter.cc
www.nksf.nl
www.zeppodunsel.nl
liam=mail
"The world that denies thee, thou inhabit.
The peace that ignores thee, thou corrupt.
Chaos. I remain, as ever, thy faithful, degenerate son."
Ethan Rayne, 'Halloween' (Buffy The Vampire Slayer)
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220407 ] |
Mi, 15 Februar 2006 13:31 |
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kevin.kirby [at] gmail.com wrote:
> IMO, it would still be possible to fit a TOS film into the years
> following Generations; one in which Kirk (or Mirror-Jim) is rescued,
> while the Federation still believes him to be gone. The producers'
> mind-set, perhaps, seems to be that any new movie must also include
> the Next Generation -- as though Star Trek's creative force couldn't
> possibly alternate between several different time frames.
>
It comes down to how much money the suits think they can make. If they think
Trek's a dead horse, nothing will happen.
> Why not come out with two or three different movies within a short
> time, as has happened recently on several occasions with blockbuster
> trilogies?
>
That would be cool.
> My pet script would show a ten-year attempt by Chekov to employ
> transportion through the energy ribbon; with the end result of beaming
> out an enraged anti-Kirk, who escapes to cause havok, etc. A
> production like this could wind up as a totally supercharged,
> high-octane affair involving the Romulans, who manage to hire him as
> a covert operative to use against the Federation President. Nobody
> but Spock can stop him, and since there's no returning him to the
> Mirror Universe ... he gets a mind meld.
And a head ache probably. ;-)
I think I would leave out the Nexus and have Mirror Kirk emerge on his own
into 'our' universe.
Remember that according to DS9 the Terran Empire was toppled by Mirror Spock
(if memory serves me well). Maybe Mirror Kirk found his way out of that
situation is out for a total revenge on the universe that cost him his
power.
>
> The Tomed Incident, through the eyes of anti-Kirk? Well, anyway, it's
> important to remember that Undiscovered Country was successful at the
> box office, while Nemesis wasn't even average. A balance between the
> two timelines would clearly favor a new TOS plot over an NG followup.
I always liked the TOS once better myself.
--
Wouter Valentijn
www.wouter.cc
www.nksf.nl
www.zeppodunsel.nl
liam=mail
"The world that denies thee, thou inhabit.
The peace that ignores thee, thou corrupt.
Chaos. I remain, as ever, thy faithful, degenerate son."
Ethan Rayne, 'Halloween' (Buffy The Vampire Slayer)
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220409 ] |
Mi, 15 Februar 2006 21:38 |
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Why not have some of the higher-ups in the Federation (or maybe some
other group) at least mount a scientific survey of that thing?
After ten years, it could have a whole array of devices and stations
riding along with it. Inertial dampeners at the ends, a "Guardian"-like
torus flying up and down while shooting test probes, a room with a
gigantic hologram to simulate the energy levels -- why not?
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220415 ] |
Do, 16 Februar 2006 00:53 |
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"Wouter Valentijn" <liam [at] valentijn.nu> wrote in message
news:43f1c778$0$24373$e4fe514c [at] news.xs4all.nl...
>
> I've heard of several cases where scenes that could have been nice ended
> up on the cutting room floor. A pity.
>
>
Like the deleted scenes from ST3: TSFS. The Klingons under the command of
Rev. Jim mention they are infact in a stolen Romulan vessel. This would
have stopped years of stock footage of that damn ship from showing up TNG,
in three different sizes no less. Did they think that no one would notice
that the 'wings' had feathers molded into them. Its a Romulan ship, Duh!
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220418 ] |
Do, 16 Februar 2006 10:46 |
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EricT wrote:
> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam [at] valentijn.nu> wrote in message
> news:43f1c778$0$24373$e4fe514c [at] news.xs4all.nl...
>
>>
>> I've heard of several cases where scenes that could have been nice
>> ended up on the cutting room floor. A pity.
>>
>>
>
>
> Like the deleted scenes from ST3: TSFS. The Klingons under the
> command of Rev. Jim mention they are infact in a stolen Romulan
> vessel. This would have stopped years of stock footage of that damn
> ship from showing up TNG, in three different sizes no less. Did they
> think that no one would notice that the 'wings' had feathers molded
> into them. Its a Romulan ship, Duh!
Would it have stopped that footage?
Cutting production costs was and is still mightily important to the suits
I'd say. ;-)
Another explanation would be that it indeed was a Romulan ship, but also
part of the technological exchange program. The Romulans themselves used
Klingon battle cruisers in the time of 'The Enterprise Incident'.
BTW, I didn't know about that cut. Thank you!
BTW II: Err, Rev? Not Kruge?
--
Wouter Valentijn
www.wouter.cc
www.nksf.nl
www.zeppodunsel.nl
liam=mail
"The world that denies thee, thou inhabit.
The peace that ignores thee, thou corrupt.
Chaos. I remain, as ever, thy faithful, degenerate son."
Ethan Rayne, 'Halloween' (Buffy The Vampire Slayer)
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220419 ] |
Do, 16 Februar 2006 10:59 |
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kevin.kirby [at] gmail.com wrote:
> Why not have some of the higher-ups in the Federation (or maybe some
> other group) at least mount a scientific survey of that thing?
>
> After ten years, it could have a whole array of devices and stations
> riding along with it. Inertial dampeners at the ends, a
> "Guardian"-like torus flying up and down while shooting test probes,
As in a Stargate-like set up?
> a room with a gigantic hologram to simulate the energy levels -- why
> not?
Because they didn't know what it was, except a highly dangerous storm that
should be avoided at all costs.
Only in Picards time they learned what it was. Officially.
Plus the path of the Nexus needed to be calculated exactly and it changed
the moment something catastrophic happened, like a star exploding, which is
on a galactic scale a common occurrence. So in stead of stations they would
need a whole fleet of starships following one single cosmic anomaly (at a
*safe* distance). And to what purpose? What would be gained? Officially Kirk
was KIA, so they would never think of looking for him there and the only
reason Picard knew is that Nexus-Guinan told him about Kirk being there, so
he could enlist his aid to stop that mad man.
--
Wouter Valentijn
www.wouter.cc
www.nksf.nl
www.zeppodunsel.nl
liam=mail
"The world that denies thee, thou inhabit.
The peace that ignores thee, thou corrupt.
Chaos. I remain, as ever, thy faithful, degenerate son."
Ethan Rayne, 'Halloween' (Buffy The Vampire Slayer)
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220420 ] |
Do, 16 Februar 2006 12:29 |
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Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220421 ] |
Do, 16 Februar 2006 14:18 |
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Neon Knight wrote:
> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam [at] valentijn.nu> wrote in
> news:43f44a11$0$11073$e4fe514c [at] news.xs4all.nl:
>
>> Another explanation would be that it indeed was a Romulan ship, but
>> also part of the technological exchange program. The Romulans
>> themselves used Klingon battle cruisers in the time of 'The
>> Enterprise Incident'.
>
> Yes, and the reason for it was the model of the Romulan bird of prey
> was damaged just before filming so they substituted the Klingon ship
> model.
Heard about that. Very sloppy!
Of course footage from 'BoT' was used again in 'The Deadly Years'.
Imo they could have used that also in 'The Enterprise Incident."
--
Wouter Valentijn
www.wouter.cc
www.nksf.nl
www.zeppodunsel.nl
liam=mail
"The world that denies thee, thou inhabit.
The peace that ignores thee, thou corrupt.
Chaos. I remain, as ever, thy faithful, degenerate son."
Ethan Rayne, 'Halloween' (Buffy The Vampire Slayer)
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220422 ] |
Do, 16 Februar 2006 15:31 |
|
"Wouter Valentijn" <liam [at] valentijn.nu> wrote in message
news:43f44a11$0$11073$e4fe514c [at] news.xs4all.nl...
> EricT wrote:
> > "Wouter Valentijn" <liam [at] valentijn.nu> wrote in message
> > news:43f1c778$0$24373$e4fe514c [at] news.xs4all.nl...
> >
> >>
> >> I've heard of several cases where scenes that could have been nice
> >> ended up on the cutting room floor. A pity.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > Like the deleted scenes from ST3: TSFS. The Klingons under the
> > command of Rev. Jim mention they are infact in a stolen Romulan
> > vessel. This would have stopped years of stock footage of that damn
> > ship from showing up TNG, in three different sizes no less. Did they
> > think that no one would notice that the 'wings' had feathers molded
> > into them. Its a Romulan ship, Duh!
>
!
> BTW II: Err, Rev? Not Kruge?
Wouter,
He was being sarcastic... Christopher LLoyd (Kruge) first gained fame as
Rev. Jim Ignatowski in the TV show "Taxi". If you are not familiar with the
show... well how best to describe his character? I'd say he was what Doc.
Brown from "back to the future" would have been like after taking bad acid
for 10 years. Rev. Jim (Iggy) was a lovable ex-drug addict with a burnt out
mind that couldnt remember his own name at times nor what had happened a
mere 10 minutes ago. In other words...the typical NYC taxi driver in the
70's and 80's.
>
> --
> Wouter Valentijn
>
> www.wouter.cc
> www.nksf.nl
> www.zeppodunsel.nl
> liam=mail
>
> "The world that denies thee, thou inhabit.
> The peace that ignores thee, thou corrupt.
> Chaos. I remain, as ever, thy faithful, degenerate son."
>
> Ethan Rayne, 'Halloween' (Buffy The Vampire Slayer)
>
>
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220425 ] |
Do, 16 Februar 2006 19:43 |
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advance scout wrote:
> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam [at] valentijn.nu> wrote in message
> news:43f44a11$0$11073$e4fe514c [at] news.xs4all.nl...
>> EricT wrote:
>>> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam [at] valentijn.nu> wrote in message
>>> news:43f1c778$0$24373$e4fe514c [at] news.xs4all.nl...
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've heard of several cases where scenes that could have been nice
>>>> ended up on the cutting room floor. A pity.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Like the deleted scenes from ST3: TSFS. The Klingons under the
>>> command of Rev. Jim mention they are infact in a stolen Romulan
>>> vessel. This would have stopped years of stock footage of that damn
>>> ship from showing up TNG, in three different sizes no less. Did
>>> they think that no one would notice that the 'wings' had feathers
>>> molded into them. Its a Romulan ship, Duh!
>>
> !
>> BTW II: Err, Rev? Not Kruge?
>
> Wouter,
>
> He was being sarcastic... Christopher LLoyd (Kruge) first gained
> fame as Rev. Jim Ignatowski in the TV show "Taxi". If you are not
> familiar with the show... well how best to describe his character?
> I'd say he was what Doc. Brown from "back to the future" would have
> been like after taking bad acid for 10 years. Rev. Jim (Iggy) was a
> lovable ex-drug addict with a burnt out mind that couldnt remember
> his own name at times nor what had happened a mere 10 minutes ago.
> In other words...the typical NYC taxi driver in the 70's and 80's.
>
Ah, like that.
Yeah I have seen some episodes of Taxi, but I never followed it on a regular
basis.
Others that had their first great big gig there were Tony Danza, Judd Hirsch
and Jeff Conaway. And of course Danny DeVito.
--
Wouter Valentijn
www.wouter.cc
www.nksf.nl
www.zeppodunsel.nl
liam=mail
"The world that denies thee, thou inhabit.
The peace that ignores thee, thou corrupt.
Chaos. I remain, as ever, thy faithful, degenerate son."
Ethan Rayne, 'Halloween' (Buffy The Vampire Slayer)
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220426 ] |
Do, 16 Februar 2006 20:48 |
|
snip
>
> Ah, like that.
> Yeah I have seen some episodes of Taxi, but I never followed it on a
regular
> basis.
> Others that had their first great big gig there were Tony Danza, Judd
Hirsch
> and Jeff Conaway.
Actually Jeff Conway is today what Jim Igantowski was then... Burnt out.
Just saw him and in real life he has left himself without a career, a very,
very substantial drug problem and a barely functioning mind.
>
> --
> Wouter Valentijn
>
> www.wouter.cc
> www.nksf.nl
> www.zeppodunsel.nl
> liam=mail
>
> "The world that denies thee, thou inhabit.
> The peace that ignores thee, thou corrupt.
> Chaos. I remain, as ever, thy faithful, degenerate son."
>
> Ethan Rayne, 'Halloween' (Buffy The Vampire Slayer)
>
>
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| Re: Trek's One Flaw [message #220428 ] |
Fr, 17 Februar 2006 01:07 |
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advance scout wrote:
> snip
>>
>> Ah, like that.
>> Yeah I have seen some episodes of Taxi, but I never followed it on a
>> regular basis.
>> Others that had their first great big gig there were Tony Danza,
>> Judd Hirsch and Jeff Conaway.
>
> Actually Jeff Conway is today what Jim Igantowski was then... Burnt
> out. Just saw him and in real life he has left himself without a
> career, a very, very substantial drug problem and a barely
> functioning mind.
>
>
Ouch...
Too bad...
He has done some work I see after Babylon 5.
--
Wouter Valentijn
www.wouter.cc
www.nksf.nl
www.zeppodunsel.nl
liam=mail
"The world that denies thee, thou inhabit.
The peace that ignores thee, thou corrupt.
Chaos. I remain, as ever, thy faithful, degenerate son."
Ethan Rayne, 'Halloween' (Buffy The Vampire Slayer)
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